Speaker 1: Hey, that folks, it is Sunday, August second, and it
Speaker 1: sounds like one of the coolest things in the world
Speaker 1: to grow up and have a dad that's one of
Speaker 1: the biggest movie stars in the world. So why is
Speaker 1: it that Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt's kids seemingly want
Speaker 1: nothing to do with him? And with that, welcome to
Speaker 1: this episode of Amy and TJ and episode Robes. That's
Speaker 1: a little delicate close to the heart, got girls and
Speaker 1: dads and involved in all this eerobes. And we don't
Speaker 1: know exactly what's happening in these families. We just say
Speaker 1: that first and foremost, but we know what these kids
Speaker 1: have done in regards to their names and their connections
Speaker 1: to their very famous fathers.
Speaker 2: Yes, we don't know the why, but we know the what.
Speaker 3: And the what is that two of the biggest stars
Speaker 3: in Hollywood their daughters this week made news that they
Speaker 3: dropped their dad's last names. That is what we know,
Speaker 3: and that does beg the question why. I don't know
Speaker 3: that we'll ever actually know. A lot of folks claim
Speaker 3: to know. People always fill in the gaps, but at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, it's sad.
Speaker 2: It's sad. Where yet you would.
Speaker 3: Think, from the outside looking in, how cool is that
Speaker 3: your dad is like this beloved Hollywood icon who makes
Speaker 3: millions and millions of dollars wowing audiences.
Speaker 2: They bring people into theaters to cheer them on. They
Speaker 2: are not just actors or famous actors. They're beloved actors, pubs.
Speaker 1: These are iconic guys. These are not These are Hollywood
Speaker 1: legends that are just happen to still be around. These
Speaker 1: are upper echelon, top tier, no matter what, not even
Speaker 1: a matter of Oscars robes. These guys are legendary. And
Speaker 1: so let's let's go with just what we know before
Speaker 1: any speculation and the guesses people make. Go through the
Speaker 1: kids for me. First of all, for Brad Pitt, right,
Speaker 1: they have to start there, six, don't they. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: we'll get more into the detail. But out of his
Speaker 1: six kids, how many have actually publicly done something to
Speaker 1: detach the Pit name from their name.
Speaker 2: I'll even go so far as to say legally, no.
Speaker 3: This week, the latest child, the fourth child in the
Speaker 3: Jolie Pitt gang, has now formally legally changed their name
Speaker 3: drop Pit. Yes, and so this is Vivian Jolie Pitt
Speaker 3: now only wants to be known as Vivian and she
Speaker 3: is the youngest daughter. But also this summer in July,
Speaker 3: both Sahara and Maddox actually continued their process of legally
Speaker 3: dropping Pit from their names. They had to take out
Speaker 3: advertisements in a Los Angeles newspaper to drop their father's surname.
Speaker 3: So they've already gotten to that step. And Shiloh, the
Speaker 3: oldest daughter between Julie and Pitt, their their oldest yeah,
Speaker 3: their oldest daughter period, but the oldest biological daughter too.
Speaker 3: She made that legal move first back on her eighteenth birthday.
Speaker 2: She's now twenty.
Speaker 1: Wait, well, so how many out of the six have
Speaker 1: made so, even if it's not official yet. So out
Speaker 1: of the six, all.
Speaker 3: Of them of the six have like just informally dropped Pitt.
Speaker 3: So Knox, the oldest one, hasn't really done anything where
Speaker 3: there's like a name where you would know. But he
Speaker 3: put out that scathing Instagram post about his dad on
Speaker 3: Father's Day calling him every name in the book, So
Speaker 3: he has obviously publicly distanced himself from Brad and then Knox,
Speaker 3: his biological son, also on a high school diploma, didn't
Speaker 3: have Now he hasn't made the legal move yet, so
Speaker 3: I can just say four of them, and the headline
Speaker 3: was this week at Vivian formally legally made the move
Speaker 3: as she just turned eighteen to drop pitt from her name.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, so now, but the I guess
Speaker 1: a lot of this the biggest headline when it comes
Speaker 1: to kids dropping the famous daddy's last name. Why is
Speaker 1: it that Tom Cruise's daughter was in the headlines Because
Speaker 1: this had kind of been bubbling and we kind of
Speaker 1: knew this was going in this direction, but Ropes I
Speaker 1: was getting caught up. And now there are things I'm
Speaker 1: realizing that other people knew about this relationship that I,
Speaker 1: frankly I didn't know it.
Speaker 3: Look and a lot of people will come up with
Speaker 3: their reasons from scientology to whatever, but we know that
Speaker 3: Surrey Cruz has been going by Surrey Noel. This week
Speaker 3: it came to light that in her voter registration, which
Speaker 3: is in Pennsylvania, she goes to Carmen excuse me, Carnegie
Speaker 3: Mellon in Pittsburgh. So she is registered to vote, and
Speaker 3: when you're registered to vote, you have to use your
Speaker 3: legal name.
Speaker 2: Her legal name is Surrey Noel.
Speaker 3: Notably, it's not Surrey Holmes, which is her mom's name,
Speaker 3: Katie Holmes. It's Surrey Noel, but Noel is Katie Holmes
Speaker 3: middle name.
Speaker 2: And like, that could suggest a lot of things.
Speaker 3: It could suggest, yes, she wants to distance herself from
Speaker 3: her father, which many people believe she hasn't seen. Look,
Speaker 3: there hasn't been a public image of the two of
Speaker 3: them together since twenty thirteen, and there has been no
Speaker 3: private confirmation from either party that they have ever been together,
Speaker 3: been documented together, seeing each other, had any contact with
Speaker 3: one another. We don't know, but no one has privately
Speaker 3: said otherwise. So that is what a lot of folks
Speaker 3: are saying. Hey, thirteen years and there's no known contact
Speaker 3: between the two. So she look also just might want
Speaker 3: to distance herself from the publicity having that last She
Speaker 3: looked exactly like.
Speaker 2: Mama, Right, she looks like Katie Holmes. But you can
Speaker 2: see Tom and her too, Like, I feel like she
Speaker 2: looks like she is.
Speaker 3: So recognizable, I guess, so I can understand maybe why
Speaker 3: she doesn't want that last name period.
Speaker 2: But it's sad. It's sad. I mean, that's choice to
Speaker 2: make that legal move. You want to distance yourself from
Speaker 2: your father's name.
Speaker 1: Okay, but there's a couple of ways. You can want
Speaker 1: to distance yourself from the name for professional reason. It
Speaker 1: might not have nothing to do with the relationship you
Speaker 1: have with your dad. Is that fair?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we have some examples of where that is true.
Speaker 1: Okay, But in these instances robes, when you're talking about
Speaker 1: there's no real confirmation, not that we need it and
Speaker 1: we're owed it, right, But when we talk about him
Speaker 1: not having a relationship with her over a decade potentially,
Speaker 1: and I don't know what is that real? Is that right?
Speaker 1: Is that's bullshit? I mean, I don't want No.
Speaker 2: One has said otherwise. I guess that's the point.
Speaker 1: And we haven't seen otherwise either. And we don't have to.
Speaker 1: You don't have to prove to us that you're a
Speaker 1: good dad. But these things that brobably is like a
Speaker 1: cascade of kids wanting to distance themselves in robes. Is
Speaker 1: not a matter of because I want to make it
Speaker 1: on my own kind of a thing. Is that I
Speaker 1: don't want to be associated with that other person.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: And the other big famous son that's been making headlines,
Speaker 3: of course is Brooklyn Beckham with his father and his mother.
Speaker 2: Now he has not dropped his last name, but it
Speaker 2: was notable.
Speaker 3: When he got married to his wife, they actually changed
Speaker 3: both of their names to Peltz Beckham, so he did
Speaker 3: add his wife's name to his last name. Now he
Speaker 3: hasn't dropped Beckham. She hasn't dropped Beckham's, but.
Speaker 1: She's Pelts Beckham as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, they're both Pelts.
Speaker 1: She picked up the Beckham name. She did, but I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Yes, they have publicly, and he, some would say cruelly
Speaker 2: even viciously distanced himself from his parents by airing his
Speaker 2: grievances with them on social media. That was pretty awful.
Speaker 2: And that was just a couple of months ago.
Speaker 3: So it just feels like there have been a lot
Speaker 3: of recent people call them nepo babies, but the kids
Speaker 3: of uber famous folks publicly distancing themselves from their famous
Speaker 3: parents or from their famous fathers positively.
Speaker 2: So there are some theories.
Speaker 3: One of them is that, look, if you've lived under
Speaker 3: the tabloid microscope your entire life, maybe it's just there's
Speaker 3: a point in which you want to distance yourself from
Speaker 3: your famous last name. You want to be known for
Speaker 3: what you've contributed and what you can do in the world,
Speaker 3: and that could possibly be We don't have to jump
Speaker 3: to the conclusion that they have some necessarily bad relationship,
Speaker 3: although in the Brad Pitt situation, some of the kids
Speaker 3: have been outspoken and at least one of them has
Speaker 3: and we know just from Angelina and Brad's awful divorce
Speaker 3: that went on forever, there were lots of accusations flying around,
Speaker 3: and it does appear that the kids all sided with
Speaker 3: their mom in that case.
Speaker 2: So it does seem to be specifically targeted towards it.
Speaker 3: I mean, they've all kept Jolie, they've just dropped picked
Speaker 3: at least in the Surrey Cruise one. She dropped cruise,
Speaker 3: but she didn't pick up home. She did Noel, So
Speaker 3: maybe we don't know.
Speaker 2: As much on that one.
Speaker 1: I just I hate that the Brad Pitt guin robes
Speaker 1: like there's a domino effect the kid after kid after
Speaker 1: kid you're not proud of, like a guy that we
Speaker 1: are celebrating like I am. So he's one of my
Speaker 1: favorites all time, Like, how is it that the house
Speaker 1: isn't work, that's kid after kid and that there's no
Speaker 1: indictment of him and his parenting and whatever's going on.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I really don't but Robes we
Speaker 1: are parents of that's tough of a lot of kids
Speaker 1: and we are around a lot of kids and Robes
Speaker 1: to us, just what that would feel like that your
Speaker 1: kid owns no affiliation, no association with your name, which
Speaker 1: no matter what, robes, that's the one thing you can
Speaker 1: give them that they.
Speaker 2: Can It's a legacy in a way, right, and you.
Speaker 1: Don't want it. Jolie Pitt should be one of the
Speaker 1: most robes. That's why is there a better last name
Speaker 1: you can possibly have?
Speaker 3: Entertainment though, when your parents are no longer together and
Speaker 3: certainly not getting along, that's a tough hyphenated name to have.
Speaker 1: I would say it is one of the most important,
Speaker 1: the most dynamic, the most photographed, the most whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it, even relevant relationships in Hollywood history.
Speaker 1: It actually is. It created things, It ended things. It
Speaker 1: was so it was a legacy. Now, I would like
Speaker 1: to think Robes that that name and their last name
Speaker 1: came from at the time a genuine place of love. Genuinely,
Speaker 1: you were created in some instances or adopted and this
Speaker 1: name came to you because these two people were in
Speaker 1: a good place and they wanted I am singing it
Speaker 1: in the most robes. I don't know what's happening to
Speaker 1: me over here, but I see it that way, and
Speaker 1: for them, I think they realize that. So for them
Speaker 1: to want to cut part of it out says a
Speaker 1: lot to me.
Speaker 2: Because there's still half of who they.
Speaker 3: Are or not and I do it makes me sad
Speaker 3: because look, we've been through divorce and we know some are.
Speaker 2: Easier than others, some are harder than others.
Speaker 3: But the reality is that just because you are no
Speaker 3: longer with your spouse should not, in any way, shape
Speaker 3: or form, mean that you're no longer with your kids.
Speaker 2: And that's the unfortunate part of it. And who's to blame.
Speaker 2: No one knows, We'll never know.
Speaker 1: But it's just sad.
Speaker 3: But it's just a big headline. It just feels like
Speaker 3: there's been a lot of it lately. But it was
Speaker 3: interesting because there are other NEPO babies who've dropped their
Speaker 3: last names, not because they've had some awful just riffed
Speaker 3: with their parent, but I even Malia Obama Barack and
Speaker 3: Michelle's daughter, she has dropped the Obama from her professional
Speaker 3: credits because she wants to be She wants to be
Speaker 3: known for her own work.
Speaker 2: So she goes by Malia Anne.
Speaker 3: Because when you have the last name Obama, it could
Speaker 3: be divisive in some circles, for sure, but also you
Speaker 3: don't want it to be that leg up like.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course, yes, we can see why she
Speaker 2: got that. It's tough. You're damned if you do, you're
Speaker 2: damned if you don't.
Speaker 1: Hers is not like Smith, it's not like even it's
Speaker 1: not like even Holmes. When you see Obama, there is
Speaker 1: one place your mind is going to go.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And she looks a lot like him too. She
Speaker 2: looks like the spitting image of him. Actually I thought
Speaker 2: this was cool. I didn't realize this.
Speaker 3: Liam Neeson's son Michael, dropped Neisson as his last name
Speaker 3: and actually legally changed it to Richardson for his mom,
Speaker 3: Natasha Richardson, who God, we loved her. But she died
Speaker 3: in that freak accident, that ski accident. She was just
Speaker 3: standing there. It was in Canada. It was in I believe,
Speaker 3: just outside of Montreal, but or Quebec. She just was
Speaker 3: standing there and slipped on ice, hit her head. Said
Speaker 3: she was fine and had a brain beleeve that no
Speaker 3: one knew of, and just like tragically, suddenly died. So, yes,
Speaker 3: he changed her last name to honor her. You forgot
Speaker 3: Amelia Estevez. I love that he kept his father's actual name,
Speaker 3: his father Martin Sheen, and Martin Sheen changed his last
Speaker 3: name because he was kind of pressured into it, because
Speaker 3: no one the whole just you don't want to be Estevez.
Speaker 3: So he changed his name to like an American's house name.
Speaker 3: His real name was Ramon Ramone Estevez, and he said
Speaker 3: he was influenced to change his last name for racist reasons.
Speaker 1: How many people listening right now are learning for the
Speaker 1: first time that Martin Sheen's name.
Speaker 2: Is actually Ramone Estevez. Yes, his name, and so it's interesting.
Speaker 3: Emelio decided to go with Emelia Estevez, and of course
Speaker 3: Charlie Sheen chose his dad's last name.
Speaker 2: Here's when you might not know either. Nicholas Cage do
Speaker 2: you know he changed?
Speaker 1: I know this, I did not. I knew the family connection,
Speaker 1: but I didn't put it all. I didn't together with
Speaker 1: the name changed.
Speaker 3: I did not know he was Nicholas Coppola. His aunt obviously,
Speaker 3: his uncle is Francis Ford Coppola. And he said, as
Speaker 3: a young actor in the eighties, he did not want
Speaker 3: to think he made it because his last name was Coppola,
Speaker 3: and he said a lot.
Speaker 2: This was his quote, I love this.
Speaker 3: People would not stop saying things to me like I
Speaker 3: love the smell of Nicholas in the morning because of
Speaker 3: his role in Apocalypse Now or his directing that movie.
Speaker 3: He said, I decided I don't need this, and I
Speaker 3: changed it to Cage. It's a combination of Luke Cage
Speaker 3: from Marvel Comics and John Cage, the avant garde composer
Speaker 3: speaks volumes about what I've been up to ever since.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I didn't. I had no idea he was
Speaker 2: a member of the Coppola family.
Speaker 1: See, I didn't realize the name thing. I knew the
Speaker 1: connection to the Coppola family, I did not know the
Speaker 1: explanation behind him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was his actual name.
Speaker 3: So there are reasons other than parental riffs that cause
Speaker 3: name changes. When we come back, though, I was curious
Speaker 3: about just us normal folks, like why would someone change
Speaker 3: their name from their father's last name, and how many
Speaker 3: Americans are actually estranged from their fathers from their parents.
Speaker 3: It's actually surprising and welcome back to Amy and TJ.
Speaker 3: We are talking about why why someone would choose to
Speaker 3: change their last name other than obviously getting married, which
Speaker 3: I still am always surprised. Eighty percent of women, by
Speaker 3: the way, changed their last name when they get married.
Speaker 1: Are you surprised women do that?
Speaker 3: I'm still I'm surprised it's still that high. I know
Speaker 3: where we live in New York. I know I was
Speaker 3: the only person I knew growing up who didn't change
Speaker 3: their last name.
Speaker 1: Were you surprised that, Hi? You surprised women do that?
Speaker 3: I think I would think in this day and age,
Speaker 3: more women would keep their last name y, because everyone
Speaker 3: I know in this industry here in New York is
Speaker 3: tends to be more like that. I'm surprised, Yes, my bubble,
Speaker 3: I know how I grew up. Obviously everyone I know
Speaker 3: changed their last name. That was just interesting. So we're
Speaker 3: not talking about that. We're talking about actually choosing to
Speaker 3: change your last name.
Speaker 2: And the question is why.
Speaker 1: Going back to us now, what we're gonna do with
Speaker 1: the last name here? We haven't.
Speaker 2: That's another episode. I've never changed my name.
Speaker 1: This episode, never changed my never. Maybe in those marriages
Speaker 1: didn't work out, did they?
Speaker 2: How would you feel about changing your last name to
Speaker 2: with me? Robot Holmes the record, you don't have a
Speaker 2: middle name.
Speaker 1: I do not.
Speaker 2: I would be open to do.
Speaker 1: Its outstanding, Amy robot Holmes.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm willing to consider it. Willing to consider Yes,
Speaker 2: I've never considered it before.
Speaker 1: You heard it here. It is there.
Speaker 3: We are back to white people drop their father's last name.
Speaker 3: Some of it is safety hiding from someone that they
Speaker 3: don't want them to find them, so they change their
Speaker 3: last name just because they have stalking harassment issues.
Speaker 2: They just want to hide.
Speaker 3: The other thing is a fresh start, creating a new
Speaker 3: personal or professional identity independent of family history Allah Nick Cage.
Speaker 3: And the other one is, yes, the one that we're
Speaker 3: hearing about that possibly could be cutting symbolic ties to
Speaker 3: either an absent parent or an abusive parent. But when
Speaker 3: you hear that name, you just feel ick. You just
Speaker 3: feel like that person wasn't my father, That person didn't
Speaker 3: take care of me. Being a father isn't just about
Speaker 3: financially filling the gap, but also being there on a
Speaker 3: daily basis, being the person you can turn to if
Speaker 3: you need advice, someone who's there to care for you
Speaker 3: and protect you. Yes, so some people feel like they
Speaker 3: want to symbolically cut the ties because they didn't feel
Speaker 3: like that was a parent.
Speaker 2: So that is why people make that. It's like a
Speaker 2: It is a big move. It's a bold move.
Speaker 1: These kids, and especially in the Brad Pitt situation, roped
Speaker 1: as soon as soon as they were of age and
Speaker 1: legally able, they ran out and did this.
Speaker 3: They lined up what the actual HEPP I know it
Speaker 3: does speak volumes, and I was curious, Look, we're looking
Speaker 3: at this through a celebrity lens, but in terms of
Speaker 3: just Americans. This is from the National Institutes of Health.
Speaker 3: I thought this was the best place I could find
Speaker 3: some real statistics.
Speaker 2: I thought this was so interesting.
Speaker 3: Percent of people report a period of estrangement from their mothers,
Speaker 3: and the average age of that estrangement is twenty six.
Speaker 3: So okay, that gives you an idea people the strange
Speaker 3: from their moms. It's a really low number. Eighty one
Speaker 3: percent of those people end up making up become unestranged.
Speaker 3: I think that's like such an important thing to remember,
Speaker 3: the right So six percent is low. That's good to see.
Speaker 3: It's around twenty six.
Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 3: Is that average point where you say I'm done and
Speaker 3: but eighty one percent eventually come back together.
Speaker 1: Ah, that's cool, all right, you're.
Speaker 3: Gonna like this one too, And I'm hoping that this
Speaker 3: the one's to end on a bio note that.
Speaker 2: When it comes to fathers, listen to this.
Speaker 3: Twenty six percent of people report being estranged from their fathers,
Speaker 3: and the average age of the first parental estrangement where
Speaker 3: you're like, I want nothing to do with you is
Speaker 3: twenty three. It makes sense when you get to a
Speaker 3: certain place in your life, you have some perspective. Maybe
Speaker 3: as a kid, you're still hoping and you're, you know,
Speaker 3: don't fully understand. When you get to be twenty three,
Speaker 3: you're like, you know what, he wasn't there for me.
Speaker 3: So twenty six percent of people say they have had
Speaker 3: a period of estrangement from their fathers, and the average
Speaker 3: age starts at twenty three. Sixty nine percent of those
Speaker 3: people eventually become unestranged. That is the vast majority. So
Speaker 3: I am hopeful. We can all be hopeful. Yes, we
Speaker 3: see the Surrey Cruz or I guess Surre Noel and
Speaker 3: now the just jo Lee klan, not the pi Joli
Speaker 3: clan that maybe look that's how they feel right now,
Speaker 3: they're young adults. They're looking at the immediate history that
Speaker 3: they know and what they've experienced. But maybe with some
Speaker 3: perspective and some time and some opportunity for Brad and
Speaker 3: for Tom to reflect, for the kids to reflect, maybe
Speaker 3: if you look at these numbers from the National Institutes
Speaker 3: of Health, there is hope that there will be a
Speaker 3: period or a point of reconciliation.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, thank you for that. That was a very
Speaker 1: hopeful note. Right, we don't get statistics on people that
Speaker 1: make up, right.
Speaker 3: We always hear about the breakup, but the makeup part
Speaker 3: is important to remember. And when it comes to parents
Speaker 3: and children, I always hope that you can leave a
Speaker 3: space for hope, you can leave a.
Speaker 2: Space for maybe you didn't know what.
Speaker 3: Your parent was going through, or you didn't know until
Speaker 3: you have a kid. I think a lot of times
Speaker 3: when you have a kid, all of a sudden, you
Speaker 3: understand your mom more, you understand your dad more. You're like,
Speaker 3: that's why they always said that, That's why they always
Speaker 3: did that, And you like you want to call your
Speaker 3: mom and your dad and give them a big old
Speaker 3: hug and say I'm sorry for what an asshole I was.
Speaker 2: When you have a teenager.
Speaker 3: Like, it's true, like different parts of my bringing up
Speaker 3: my daughters, I had different levels of empathy for my parents.
Speaker 1: But also sometimes when stuff goes on around the house,
Speaker 1: we can also look at it. When we get pushback
Speaker 1: from teenagers and young adults, we can just go just wait,
Speaker 1: like we don't have to put we don't have to
Speaker 1: convince them of anything, because we know they're going to
Speaker 1: get to where we are and realize that we were right, yeah,
Speaker 1: just like we realized our parents were right exactly.
Speaker 3: And so there is hope that maybe there can be
Speaker 3: an unestrangement perhaps of some of these folks we were
Speaker 3: just talking about, but without everyone. We always appreciate you
Speaker 3: listening to us. I'm Amy Roebuck alongside TJ.
Speaker 2: Holmes. We'll talk soon.