Speaker 1: Hey, welcome into the all new All ball Man. Do
Speaker 1: we have a great pod for you? So excited. Frank
Speaker 1: haith uh longtime friend, head coach of Tulsa the Golden
Speaker 1: Hurricane and finished in first place in the A A
Speaker 1: C will be my guest. Will get his thoughts on
Speaker 1: why he left Miami, why he left missoo. Um, how
Speaker 1: close they were to being they are to being special
Speaker 1: at Tulsa, what this is like. And oh yeah, by
Speaker 1: the way, he has a a a personal thought on
Speaker 1: on the protests and on police brutality and kind of
Speaker 1: something interesting that he learned. He learned about the Tulsa
Speaker 1: race rights only after this took place, and now obviously
Speaker 1: I think that's gonna change how he coaches and teaches
Speaker 1: his men in the future. Um. Also on this pod,
Speaker 1: we've got a kind of a double double hit hit
Speaker 1: for you. It should be really really good. Brandon Golbel
Speaker 1: joins us. Um he is. If you follow hoops, you
Speaker 1: know he's has Twitter handle at Juco Advocate. Here's a
Speaker 1: guy who will go anywhere to find any player and
Speaker 1: give him a chance to be seen. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: So Brandon Gobel and Frank, Hey, first, let's let's get
Speaker 1: to our conversation with a head coach of Tulsa gold Hurricane.
Speaker 1: Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Speaker 1: Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific
Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app.
Speaker 1: Let's welcome him in. And he's the head coach of
Speaker 1: the Tulsa Golden Hurricane. He's Frank Haith and Um, Frank,
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of things I'd love to get to
Speaker 1: you get with you on this this podcast. But let
Speaker 1: me start with something that I did not know until
Speaker 1: listening to some of your remarks UM on other podcasts
Speaker 1: and other outlets, that you know what um and and
Speaker 1: maybe this is something I've probably learned, is man, everybody's
Speaker 1: life experience is so different when we see police brutality
Speaker 1: and there's this massive now international movement to end it
Speaker 1: and uh and to change so many things with how
Speaker 1: how police are are purporting themselves. It strikes home, I think,
Speaker 1: especially sharply with you. Sean Bell was your what nephew
Speaker 1: and he was shot and killed in New York. Yes,
Speaker 1: he was my nephew and back in two thousand six, Um,
Speaker 1: you know he uh used at his bachelor party, um,
Speaker 1: at a club with some friends and a couple of
Speaker 1: other brothers and and he's getting married next day. And
Speaker 1: so he was leaving the club. There's three undercover cops
Speaker 1: in the club and uh, I'm assuming that one police officers,
Speaker 1: you know, just unidentified miss unidentified Sean and um, you know,
Speaker 1: pull the gun out on him. And Sean obviously acted
Speaker 1: like any Norman being because he never said who he
Speaker 1: was and got in his car and tried to escape
Speaker 1: me intwo of his friends and there was fifty rounds
Speaker 1: shot into the car and he was killed. His two
Speaker 1: friends survived it. Um Uh one of his friends have
Speaker 1: shot fourteen times and survived, survived it. But uh, no drugs,
Speaker 1: no guns, no weapons, no, nothing was uh and um,
Speaker 1: it's just that I think there's something in my case, dug.
Speaker 1: When it happened, I was like, hey, coach at Miami
Speaker 1: and this is uh fourteen years and not really talking
Speaker 1: about it, and um and I think at a time,
Speaker 1: you know, I was discerned, worried about my brand. Maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know, afraid, not knowing what to say. How
Speaker 1: they said, I don't want to say the wrong thing.
Speaker 1: I don't want to come off as a uh you know,
Speaker 1: someone that said against police, the policing uh you know,
Speaker 1: just so many things, so many factors and uh, as
Speaker 1: I said yesterday, I was I felt guilty about shame
Speaker 1: uh you know, as as George Floyd uh situation played
Speaker 1: out in front of us. UM. And I called my
Speaker 1: brother yesterday because it was the first time I had
Speaker 1: a conversation about sehn and and speaking on it, and
Speaker 1: I apologize and um. But it was a tough time
Speaker 1: for our family and I and that's something to stay
Speaker 1: with me. And I've never even talked about it with
Speaker 1: any of my teams until this team this year. UH.
Speaker 1: And I think the reason for doing that was to
Speaker 1: say to them, it could happen to anybody. And we've all,
Speaker 1: as black men, taught our kids and been taught how
Speaker 1: to uh uh engage with terms of engagement with policing
Speaker 1: policemen in terms of how we should uh you know, respect,
Speaker 1: ask questions, don't argue, show your hands, um and uh.
Speaker 1: But in this case, in Sean's case, he didn't have
Speaker 1: that opportunity, and UM it was It's a difficult top
Speaker 1: of our family. But every time we see some of
Speaker 1: these incidents, It just brings back that pain that we
Speaker 1: as a family endured back in two thousand six. Um,
Speaker 1: did you? And look? And I'm in no way impugning
Speaker 1: your level. Like I we know each other for a
Speaker 1: long time. I'm a lot of people don't know about it,
Speaker 1: so I'm not But did you Did you know about
Speaker 1: the race riots of the ninety twenties in Tulsa before
Speaker 1: I've been you know, kind of brought to people's attention
Speaker 1: following George Floyd's death, You know what I did not?
Speaker 1: And the read and it's funny, Doug, not funny, but
Speaker 1: you know, it's not taught the history books here, and
Speaker 1: it's something that I think as I talked to people,
Speaker 1: that's really a sensitive subject and I did not know
Speaker 1: about it. And then obviously when I hear Russell Westbrook
Speaker 1: and Lebron James doing this documentary and learning about it,
Speaker 1: that's why I decided to do something with our team too.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a coach, Doug. And you know
Speaker 1: this because you know, we have a calling. We have
Speaker 1: a uh, you know, to educate, to teach, that's what
Speaker 1: we do. We're coaches. And and I looked at this
Speaker 1: as an opportunity to continue to educate our kids. And
Speaker 1: we've had a couple of zoom calls to talk about
Speaker 1: some things, and to talk about George Floyd, but also
Speaker 1: talk about you know, I sent them a link on uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the Black Wall Street and I asked to
Speaker 1: watch it. Then the next week we we talked about it.
Speaker 1: And you know, something so historic is right here in
Speaker 1: our town. And I don't think you know, I haven't
Speaker 1: interjected that with any of my teams here. And uh
Speaker 1: so we we wanted to have a unity walk, not
Speaker 1: a protest, a unity walk, uh to show solidarity, to
Speaker 1: show um that we're unified. Uh you know, I've got
Speaker 1: black players, white players, you know, and and and we
Speaker 1: have something we want to do to honor the three
Speaker 1: tragedy Brianna Taylor, George Floyd, Ahmad Avery, and to have
Speaker 1: an educational piece of it at the end, uh walk
Speaker 1: into Black Wall Street, uh degree with Culture Center and
Speaker 1: and it was we we did some you know, putting
Speaker 1: it together in terms of how far the walk would
Speaker 1: be and able to honor those three tragedies. And we
Speaker 1: started at ten o'clock. We got to get at ten
Speaker 1: o'clock and we started our walk at ten fourteen and
Speaker 1: ten fourteen is George Floyd's birthday. And then as we
Speaker 1: started our walk, we got to in a Delaware and
Speaker 1: you know Delaware because you know Tulsa. We paused and
Speaker 1: and and had a moment of silence the twenty seven seconds.
Speaker 1: Brianna's birthday was that last Friday, and she turned twenty seven,
Speaker 1: so we wanted to honor her. And then the walk
Speaker 1: from there to the Culture Center was two point two
Speaker 1: three miles and uh, Ahmad Aubrey's birthday is February, so
Speaker 1: that way we were able to honor all three of
Speaker 1: those and to uh get there and then it wasn't open,
Speaker 1: but just so happened we were able to communicate with
Speaker 1: someone in there and they allowed us to go in
Speaker 1: and our players were able to see a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, stuff that was been an archived and about uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the black black Wall Street and uh and
Speaker 1: and I think that's that was a great experience for
Speaker 1: us a basketball team and uh and something that I
Speaker 1: think that we will continue to do in the future
Speaker 1: in terms of educating our our our young people. I
Speaker 1: had no idea the level of racism because I actually
Speaker 1: I feel like Tulsa is tulsas a lot very midwestern?
Speaker 1: Is I mean obviously you know you lived there, but
Speaker 1: for people who don't like um. But I started to
Speaker 1: know the history of Tulsa and like, hey, did you
Speaker 1: know this happening? Guys in my team and talked who
Speaker 1: are from Oklahoma? Like did you know that? I had
Speaker 1: no idea? But it is. It is fascinating that in
Speaker 1: these moments and now, uh, with your experience now kind
Speaker 1: of learning about it, we're all kind of realizing even
Speaker 1: the flaws to how we've educated kids, right, Like this
Speaker 1: is the bit. What are we teaching our children about history?
Speaker 1: What are we to teaching children that they can use
Speaker 1: kind of in the future as a as a coach
Speaker 1: in a and and as a father and as a
Speaker 1: mentor and you mentor even guys who are still playing
Speaker 1: in the NBA today who recruited going back to your
Speaker 1: days awake and of course the Texas UM what what
Speaker 1: what should we be teaching our children? What are the
Speaker 1: in your minds? What are the right messages that we
Speaker 1: need to relate, especially to our players. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: as I've talked to our guys about a couple of things,
Speaker 1: is we we we you know, the the George Floyd
Speaker 1: uh murder situation has allowed us, as tragic as it was,
Speaker 1: is I think we're starting to see change and has
Speaker 1: given us a platform as coaches to have serious conversations
Speaker 1: that are uncomfortable and about a lot of things that
Speaker 1: that and I think we've got to continue to have
Speaker 1: those conversation in terms of teaching and educating our our
Speaker 1: young people until they become comfortable. And but to me,
Speaker 1: we talked about we talked about a lot of things
Speaker 1: in terms of I wish the world was a team
Speaker 1: because you know, and you played on a team. When
Speaker 1: you're in the locker room, football locker room or basketball
Speaker 1: locker the team, what are you teaching your teaching respect,
Speaker 1: love for each other, play for each other, Uh, care
Speaker 1: about each other, doing things together. Uh, And that's what
Speaker 1: we need. And the time of crisis that this, you know,
Speaker 1: there are our countries and a lot of pain right now.
Speaker 1: And but I do I hope I see when I
Speaker 1: see the protesting, and and I've see just as many
Speaker 1: white people as I see black people out protesting. That
Speaker 1: gives us all hope. I see it not just in
Speaker 1: the United States, but all over the world. I think
Speaker 1: this has spurned a lot of different feeling than we've
Speaker 1: had in the past when we have these situations. Uh.
Speaker 1: And this is for the generation after us. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what we're doing at if everyone would receive that,
Speaker 1: you know, let's let's let's teach a little bit of love,
Speaker 1: let's teach caring, preach one another. And I think the
Speaker 1: one thing we talked about, the other thing we talked
Speaker 1: about our gods is voting. And I know Coach Ravanal
Speaker 1: at Georgia Tech, Uh, his comments was so profound, so
Speaker 1: awesome and an encouragement and give it take a move
Speaker 1: them a third off and and and but but how
Speaker 1: can I just understanding you know, they have a voice,
Speaker 1: they can be a part of change. Uh, they can. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it's not it's not about voting. The about for
Speaker 1: the presidency is about local We want to we taught
Speaker 1: because we got got small of the country to ask
Speaker 1: the depot and we want to help them understand. But
Speaker 1: they need to get educated on you know, things that
Speaker 1: you you want to see happen in your communities. And
Speaker 1: you know you're you're, you're you're you know you're voting
Speaker 1: for city councilm and you're voting for all kinds of
Speaker 1: things that that are going on that you can create
Speaker 1: and change. And I think helping educate our young people
Speaker 1: to understand they have a voice is the most important thing.
Speaker 1: Frank Um, why did you get into coaching? You know,
Speaker 1: I had a Mike my father. I moved out south
Speaker 1: from New York when I was a very young, uh
Speaker 1: five years old, so I was raised by my grandparents.
Speaker 1: My grandmother and my coaches were my father figures. I
Speaker 1: actually knew I wanted to coach. My first team sport
Speaker 1: I played on was I was a ten year old
Speaker 1: Mike I think is Mike's a peelie football team. And
Speaker 1: Dr Allen White was my football coach. He was also
Speaker 1: the after that director of Elon College. And my my
Speaker 1: people that I looked up to. They had the impact
Speaker 1: of my life and growing up with my coaches, and
Speaker 1: I said, I want to do that. I wanted to
Speaker 1: impact young people like I've been impacted by my coaches.
Speaker 1: And I went through college. I couldn't get through it
Speaker 1: fast enough because I wanted I thought I was a
Speaker 1: high school coach and teach. I don't know health and
Speaker 1: Kenney said, I was a pe and that was gonna
Speaker 1: be my career because those people, those are the people
Speaker 1: that had the profound effect on me. So how did
Speaker 1: you get your first job? So you get done with
Speaker 1: the Elin College, right, and then how did you how
Speaker 1: did you like take me through the steps of which
Speaker 1: you actually became a coach there? Well, I when I
Speaker 1: when I decided I wanted I didn't want to go
Speaker 1: far away from home. My grandmother was still um my
Speaker 1: senior year, and so I went to Elon, which is
Speaker 1: where I grew up. And as I said at the director,
Speaker 1: there was my first coach, brockt down in White. And
Speaker 1: you know, first year, my grandmother passed away. And honestly,
Speaker 1: I paid for my education. I didn't get a scholarship.
Speaker 1: I paid for schooling. UH. And I had all kinds
Speaker 1: of jobs. I you know, I worked in a mill
Speaker 1: cleaning UH machines, I U. I did floors, I stripped
Speaker 1: floors and polished floors, UH cut grass. I did every
Speaker 1: I paid my education. And so after my freshman year,
Speaker 1: Dr White came to me because I was going back
Speaker 1: to my high school and then a volunteer UH football
Speaker 1: and basketball assistant, he came to me said, listen, Frank, look,
Speaker 1: you got a proposition really helped you with school. Uh,
Speaker 1: we want you to live in the gym. And we
Speaker 1: had this closet is literally like a closet, and we
Speaker 1: could turn into a space where you can live. And
Speaker 1: you took care of the gym. And and that's how
Speaker 1: I helped me. And I still had two loans, but
Speaker 1: I saw I'll finished up paying for school. And then
Speaker 1: I got involved with working with Bob Burton, who's the
Speaker 1: head coach at Elne time and uh, then I worked
Speaker 1: with Jerry Steele. I worked camp to work seven eight
Speaker 1: seven straight weeks in camp with Jerry school, I started
Speaker 1: working five star and prep stars. I've got no coaches
Speaker 1: do that in the summertime. But I would go out
Speaker 1: recruiting my my junior and senior year in college. I
Speaker 1: had just seven before Hatchtack Pentel. I would go recruiting
Speaker 1: in I had to put boiled in every hundred miles
Speaker 1: because it run out of oil. But but that's how
Speaker 1: that started. And uh, the rest kind of his history
Speaker 1: in Yas and Dave Oh got the job to wait
Speaker 1: for us. Jerry Steele said he got hire this guy.
Speaker 1: And I was my first college job beyond Els, I
Speaker 1: was a g at weight force for one year, and
Speaker 1: I became a full time assistant with Kevin Easton right
Speaker 1: after that, and I popped around with a couple of
Speaker 1: other places, working some outstanding coaches and Tony Barroney, Rick Barnes,
Speaker 1: Jerry Dunn and and uh Kevin Easton. So I feel
Speaker 1: very blessed getting into the profession. And then I had
Speaker 1: opportunity to as a head coach at Miami and Missouri
Speaker 1: and Ali Taulson. Um, I got a bunch of kids.
Speaker 1: I got so many players. I want to first time
Speaker 1: you saw Chris Paul's win. Oh, when he's a ninth
Speaker 1: grader and he was a bass. That little sucker was
Speaker 1: so good and we were the first school to offerers
Speaker 1: and uh, um you know, And actually I thought he didn't.
Speaker 1: I thought he didn't make varsity until his junior year.
Speaker 1: Oh no, not asked, Well, I don't seem they made
Speaker 1: bars out him. Was a nightcrif and Tim Fuller was
Speaker 1: assistant coach at East for Side High School, and Tim
Speaker 1: played it wait for us, so he told me about Chris,
Speaker 1: so I would go, I would see Chris, and uh
Speaker 1: we offered him I'm we offered his tenth grade year
Speaker 1: and at wait Parson, but he ended up you know,
Speaker 1: Skip recruited in procepted. Dave took a job at South
Speaker 1: Carolina during the senior year and uh. And it got
Speaker 1: a little harry there for for a right, But I
Speaker 1: think they were always going to get him because he's
Speaker 1: right there at hometown guy. Yeah yeah, um, but I
Speaker 1: mean it's pretty interesting. I mean how the town you
Speaker 1: you mentioned you mentioned Skip, Um, Tony BARRONI who passed away. Um,
Speaker 1: Dave Odom, who of course you worked for. Let me
Speaker 1: start with with with Dave Odom, what what's your if
Speaker 1: you would say, hey, this this is what made Dave
Speaker 1: Odom special, different, unique? What would it be? You know,
Speaker 1: the day was always under control. I mean he never
Speaker 1: he never felt like he lost his composure during the games. Um.
Speaker 1: He handled any type of adversity with calmness. Um. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the one thing I took from him.
Speaker 1: You know, he never got too high, he never got
Speaker 1: too low. As why you watch those moments of those
Speaker 1: back to back ACC championships and he's calmly walks over
Speaker 1: and sits on the bench when everybody's going crazy, but
Speaker 1: that that was day and and I don't you know,
Speaker 1: you know, tough losses, great wins. He was the same guy.
Speaker 1: And he was always very much glass half fool kind
Speaker 1: of guy and kept things in perspective. And I and
Speaker 1: I appreciate his calmness and allowing me to grow as
Speaker 1: a coach. I mean, I think Dave was I was
Speaker 1: so blessed worth the guys that really allowed me as
Speaker 1: a young coach in ball with everything every aspect that
Speaker 1: it is to be become a head coach. And and
Speaker 1: Dave was so good to me in that redult um.
Speaker 1: Your career trajectory I felt like took off when you
Speaker 1: got to work with Rick barnes Um. Not that it
Speaker 1: hadn't been building, but the level of guys you were
Speaker 1: guys able to recruit and Texas was really kind of
Speaker 1: killing it. And you were known as the you know,
Speaker 1: the guy. That's one of the things that allowed you
Speaker 1: to get that Miami job. Um. Okay, so you're you're
Speaker 1: at Wake, You're from you know, I mean you're from
Speaker 1: New York technically, but you grew up in Carolina. How
Speaker 1: did the move to Texas take place? You know, I
Speaker 1: got to know Rick when he was at Clusteron. Um.
Speaker 1: You know he was if you recalled Rick time to Cluston,
Speaker 1: he was a he was a tough dude now um,
Speaker 1: but seeing him on recruity trails and and talking to him,
Speaker 1: you know, Rick's a personal guy. We both from North Carolina.
Speaker 1: He went to Lenore Ryan. I went to Elon, you
Speaker 1: know old Carolina conference guys. So we had a lot
Speaker 1: in common conversation, and Rick tried to hire me. Um.
Speaker 1: When I came back to the way, Rick tried to
Speaker 1: hire me. I was there two or three years and
Speaker 1: we started recruiting, like I was kidded Josh Howard, Barry
Speaker 1: san Gala, and I was. I said, I gotta see
Speaker 1: it through here because I couldn't do it as Many
Speaker 1: got the Texas job a year after he was. He
Speaker 1: lost Ricky Stokes and I stayed. I said, coach, if
Speaker 1: it ever opened again, I'll consider it. And uh. And
Speaker 1: then he brought the mirror lea and takes the Cianna job,
Speaker 1: and then and and I went. And it was an
Speaker 1: easy transition because that was one day left Wake and
Speaker 1: was going to South Carolina. And so I I went
Speaker 1: to Texas coach and obviously coach turn Texas around. I
Speaker 1: don't know people who understand where the program was. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you know, they were solid, but coach took
Speaker 1: Texas to another level, and uh, you know, the guys
Speaker 1: were recruited. Then it all started with t J Ford.
Speaker 1: Uh but you know, because it wasn't quite quite cool
Speaker 1: yet to go to Texas being from Texas, and p
Speaker 1: J made it cool to go to Texas. Um and
Speaker 1: he was the first one, and then obviously from Daniel
Speaker 1: getson to LaMarcus all Rich. But one of my greatest recruits.
Speaker 1: There was one that nobody hardly recruited and I was
Speaker 1: pg T p J Tucker. Nobody recruited PJ. And I
Speaker 1: remember bringing h p J name the coach, and I
Speaker 1: just saw I lived to North Carolina. I saw p
Speaker 1: J play because I have roots here in North Carolina.
Speaker 1: Will go back in the truth, and he played a
Speaker 1: kid out you partly member's named Shavlick Randolph who was
Speaker 1: the number one player in the country. And I was
Speaker 1: at the game and PJ had like Woody and twenty
Speaker 1: something crazy number and twenty bree Bounds and I remember
Speaker 1: when as a coach, this kid is something special and
Speaker 1: because like what was this is? I don't know he
Speaker 1: used the player. I don't know what. I don't know
Speaker 1: where you put him that on the court. And he's
Speaker 1: a ryant Carolina or or even late for US or
Speaker 1: anything bos with Crutain coach. I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 1: but I think I know we can play for US
Speaker 1: and the first we signed it and I don't push
Speaker 1: me the song. But he did call his buddy John
Speaker 1: Lift to verify did he could play in John Lift.
Speaker 1: He's the headquater of no right, Franks right, He's a
Speaker 1: good player. So uh, first workout, p J is awful,
Speaker 1: I mean god awful, throws up in the trash and
Speaker 1: he's got a shade and uh, River coach just killing
Speaker 1: me about him. Uh actually started killing me when he
Speaker 1: was want to visit because we went to this place
Speaker 1: and and p J. P J ordered like five lobster
Speaker 1: tells for I Lockster. They were so expens be woman
Speaker 1: of bad boys down one bite. Uh. But uh, he
Speaker 1: he end up benefit to go and he left after
Speaker 1: three years and obviously he was the twelve Player of
Speaker 1: the Year and uh and he's still playing in the NBA.
Speaker 1: You you get your first job at Miami. What's that like?
Speaker 1: You like you've been doing You've been doing it for
Speaker 1: fifteen years or so, and now the head coach is
Speaker 1: a big time program. What do you remember about your
Speaker 1: first days on the job there? The first one I
Speaker 1: got here, which is pretty awesome Letterally Hamilton's flew in. Uh.
Speaker 1: He was the head he did just be came to
Speaker 1: head coach at Florida State. You know, he was a
Speaker 1: former head coach in Miami with coasch the Wizards. He
Speaker 1: flew in and he met it and uh and he
Speaker 1: took me around town and gave me some advice. And
Speaker 1: I was you know, obviously I got to know Coach
Speaker 1: Challenging a little bit through his profession. But the fact
Speaker 1: that he took if I was thought it was kind
Speaker 1: of you know, we were competitors and we're going to
Speaker 1: be compete against each other. But he showed me around town,
Speaker 1: explained you know, people I needed to know in town.
Speaker 1: Uh and and and that was unbelievable in terms of
Speaker 1: giving me some comfort level. Um. But I felt good
Speaker 1: about the opportunity. Even though the program was struggling at
Speaker 1: the time. We went through some tough times in terms
Speaker 1: of they were making a transition in the Big East
Speaker 1: back to the ABC, and um, you know, we we
Speaker 1: were able to in seven years, five years of postseason
Speaker 1: though you know, one day into terms of five and
Speaker 1: I think that was still an upgrade where the program
Speaker 1: was and Miami was a program that needed a lot.
Speaker 1: We built the practic facilities, a lot of things that
Speaker 1: needed to upgrade the program to get it to the
Speaker 1: level it needed to be to be consistently uh competitive
Speaker 1: in a sec And Jim's done a tremendous job after
Speaker 1: the taking it to another level. But but it was
Speaker 1: a you know, I was thirty eight years old, and
Speaker 1: you know, you know, we we were able to get
Speaker 1: some things accomplish here in terms of the type of
Speaker 1: teams we built. And uh that's Jack McClinton had a
Speaker 1: closer kid that and I think you did one of
Speaker 1: our games. And in New York St. Johns who played St.
Speaker 1: John Jack m Clinton became an unbelievable player here transferred
Speaker 1: to Tiana and he's guys in the number in the rackets,
Speaker 1: one of the all time these people in shooters in
Speaker 1: a sec um and had a tremendous career at Miami.
Speaker 1: You know, I was I was I was before I
Speaker 1: knew I was gonna have you on. I was researching
Speaker 1: and I remember, like I saw your second game at
Speaker 1: Miami you lost to South Carolina State, and I just wonder,
Speaker 1: what like that can you compare that to like a
Speaker 1: couple of years later, you guys started out twelve and
Speaker 1: oh you win a preseason tournament you VCU and Providence
Speaker 1: in Mississippi State and St. You know St. John's what
Speaker 1: I mean, what's that like from early on where you're
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever question yourself, like, man,
Speaker 1: this thing and to work to all of a sudden
Speaker 1: it takes a couple of years. What's it like when
Speaker 1: it hits, when you're like, this will work? But you know,
Speaker 1: I think when you have, I've been very blessed. We
Speaker 1: talked about some of the people I've worked for and
Speaker 1: and and people that I could call and rely on
Speaker 1: in terms of from it their experiences and um, you know,
Speaker 1: George Raveling was someone else that I leaned on, and
Speaker 1: you know that's outing of the state was you know,
Speaker 1: I opened, but I think, you know, I felt like
Speaker 1: we had some solid players that we could build on.
Speaker 1: But you know, it was just being consistent. I had
Speaker 1: good people working with me. You know, you have to
Speaker 1: have a good staff. You know, you're only as good
Speaker 1: as the people around you that kept me encouraged and motivated.
Speaker 1: And uh and my family. You know, my wife was tremendous.
Speaker 1: And you know, I had this opportunity, and I knew
Speaker 1: I was prepared because the coaches that I've worked for
Speaker 1: are giving me the opportunity to give me the tools
Speaker 1: that I needed to be successful. And and I embraced
Speaker 1: those opportunities that I had. I you know, I tell
Speaker 1: young coaches this all the time, whoever you work for.
Speaker 1: You don't just particularly being a young African American coach
Speaker 1: in this business, you get labeled as just a recruiter.
Speaker 1: You know, I get my first job because uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I was able to have the number one recruited class
Speaker 1: in the country with LaMarcus old Rich and Draniel Giftson
Speaker 1: and Mike Williams and all those guys. But you better
Speaker 1: be able to handle all the things that come along
Speaker 1: with being a head coach. You better be able to
Speaker 1: do speaking. Again, she's better be able to do radio edit.
Speaker 1: You better be able to uh do scheduling. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: how do you how do. How do you learn if
Speaker 1: you don't know how? Right, Like like the speaking speaking stuff,
Speaker 1: you're very good at it, but you've always I mean
Speaker 1: I we met when you were in Texas and like
Speaker 1: you've never you've never been somebody who like, well that
Speaker 1: guy really needs to work on this presentation. But how
Speaker 1: if you if that's not something you do naturally, Well,
Speaker 1: how do you work on it? I think you've got to.
Speaker 1: You learn, You get better by doing. And I was
Speaker 1: fortunate enough to have coaches like when we would play
Speaker 1: on Big Mondays, you know in the Big twelve. Rick
Speaker 1: Barnes wouldn't do that. We had our we had our
Speaker 1: our conference calls on Monday, so I would do his
Speaker 1: This his part of comference calls on Mondays. When we
Speaker 1: play on Big Mondays with the radio and ask the questions. Um.
Speaker 1: So you you learn, you get better at it by doing.
Speaker 1: And I tell jump Fakes, you can't like you're gonna
Speaker 1: You're not gonna be good at it the first time
Speaker 1: you do it. You know Kim English who worked for me,
Speaker 1: the first time he did a scouting court, he struggled.
Speaker 1: Kim English is one of them. He's a stuff. He
Speaker 1: is a stark in this business. But he'll tell you
Speaker 1: the first time he did a Scoutter report, he struggled.
Speaker 1: And I think you learn you get better by doing
Speaker 1: and and you can't be discouraged. You gotta It's like
Speaker 1: riding a bike, right you, Paul, You get but you
Speaker 1: got to get back on that bike and ride it again.
Speaker 1: And you get better by continue to be persistent, to
Speaker 1: tine to do it. Contiue to work on it, continue
Speaker 1: to practice and and and then and but but but
Speaker 1: you have to actually do it. I think that's how
Speaker 1: you get better. Why the Missouri job, you know, it's
Speaker 1: here seven years and I enjoyed Miami. We still own
Speaker 1: our home and minded and um. The traction there at
Speaker 1: that time was the fan base and the the rapid
Speaker 1: fan base, the energy, the um and you know, I
Speaker 1: just wanted it. Wanted something briffer and uh. But what
Speaker 1: I loved what we had because I thought we had
Speaker 1: created a program that was going to be just take
Speaker 1: off here at Miami. And and Jim came in and
Speaker 1: obviously they did because we had a lot of young
Speaker 1: guys here and it was hard to me and I
Speaker 1: was really emotional telling those guys that I was leaving,
Speaker 1: and because I knew with the Kawan Jones and we
Speaker 1: had Kenny Kaji sitting now, we had you know, we
Speaker 1: had so many guys, uh you know, Reggie Jones that
Speaker 1: we were really google to be really really good about
Speaker 1: the Grand Durrant Scott and we're gonna be really good. Um.
Speaker 1: But I wanted I wanted something different, and uh um
Speaker 1: it was tough. But you know, three years we won
Speaker 1: seven six games at Missouri, you know, three straight postseason
Speaker 1: and we looked that first team was terrific. There was
Speaker 1: the senior laden we only had seven scholarship players win
Speaker 1: thirty games. Uh but we also won forty six games
Speaker 1: the next two years, and we had recruited well enough
Speaker 1: to containue some success there. Um. Um, But I you know,
Speaker 1: and I enjoyed my time at Mansouri. I had a
Speaker 1: had a great experience there because we're really good, had
Speaker 1: a great fan base. Um. And you know, at that time,
Speaker 1: I just felt like I wanted something different. I want
Speaker 1: to try something different. I was young enough, you know,
Speaker 1: um to do it. And um but I enjoyed my
Speaker 1: time there. And we you know, we still, like I said,
Speaker 1: we still have great friends, great relationships here in Miami
Speaker 1: because this is probably gonna be our home whenever we
Speaker 1: hang it out. You mentioned that first team. Of course
Speaker 1: he was famous for not just having seven scholarship players.
Speaker 1: But you guys, you were the first to really really
Speaker 1: commit to true small ball. Like we played small when
Speaker 1: I was at Oaklahoma State and we had Mason at
Speaker 1: the four, but Ricardo Bratliff as you know, just a
Speaker 1: just a junkyard dog inside as your five and the
Speaker 1: pressy boys, Kim was really your fore man, right, who's
Speaker 1: like a point for point power forward and Marcus Demmon?
Speaker 1: How did that come to? Was that? Was that? Just? Um?
Speaker 1: What was the what is the was the what is it? Necessity?
Speaker 1: Is the root of all invention? Or was that the plan?
Speaker 1: In the second you got there? It wasn't the plan?
Speaker 1: And uh, you know lost Pollowers was an All conference
Speaker 1: player towards a c L. I was out recruiting and
Speaker 1: he tears as a c L. And so you know,
Speaker 1: we really didn't have a lot of size. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: we had a kid to being Green was a pressman
Speaker 1: that was read sure the year before and he end
Speaker 1: up leaving the middle of the year and and and
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where I looked at our
Speaker 1: team and I said, we gotta have our best players
Speaker 1: out here. And you know, Kimmy was and I called
Speaker 1: Kimny in and and and he'll tell you a story,
Speaker 1: perbade him. I said, kim we're gonna have to probably
Speaker 1: play it before and I need you. I know you
Speaker 1: visit yourself being a off guard in the NBA, and
Speaker 1: and and but you're gonna play like a guard and
Speaker 1: you're gonna play this position. But you're smart enough and
Speaker 1: you're you're you're tough enough to be able to handle
Speaker 1: it on both ends or the floor. Oudity, they're gonna
Speaker 1: have a tough time guard you, but you're going to
Speaker 1: be good enough to do it on a defense the end.
Speaker 1: And now we'll give up some things, but here's what
Speaker 1: I want you to focus on. Just keeping your guy
Speaker 1: off the guards. Just keep your guy off the glass
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be and with your quickness, you'll you'll
Speaker 1: have your way. And we played Kansas twice that year,
Speaker 1: and kim me a upday is the I mean, Jeff
Speaker 1: with the you would just se putting in a garden
Speaker 1: because we're party had the guard Thomas Robinson and just
Speaker 1: with the struggle two times against him, and but Keimerson
Speaker 1: tells him he was fought in. He would you know,
Speaker 1: he was stricken him on the way on his turn
Speaker 1: and then he had a you know, a hard time guarden.
Speaker 1: But they ended up you know, I give Bill credit.
Speaker 1: He ended up putting a guard on him on the
Speaker 1: other end to the second time we played them, Um,
Speaker 1: but it was something and then and then we just
Speaker 1: had a system where we taught spaces. Those guys really
Speaker 1: were comfortable with sharing the ball and that was that
Speaker 1: was something I thought coming from the year before they
Speaker 1: they was a lot of sis. But you know, Marcus
Speaker 1: Denman and Kim Eng was Ricardo, they were scores and
Speaker 1: even might get there were all scores. But getting them
Speaker 1: to understand it doesn't matter. There's gonna be some guys
Speaker 1: at night. We got enough guys who can score that
Speaker 1: we They shared the ball like crazy, Doug and and
Speaker 1: the still to this day, I think the numbers of
Speaker 1: that team offensive points per possession is one of one
Speaker 1: of the since they started doing that, one of the
Speaker 1: best in the countries in terms of Once they started
Speaker 1: doing that, stack um and we were lethal and we
Speaker 1: had a big managhot seventy or seventy percent from the floor. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then those guys were so good at you know
Speaker 1: when we got stay and they could play in space, uh,
Speaker 1: and they could shoot. So you you really struggle figuring
Speaker 1: out how to defend them, you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: could you if he got up on him, they all
Speaker 1: can handle them all well enough to deck it to
Speaker 1: go buy you if he stayed awesome, they well, they
Speaker 1: all could shoot it. And so but we also had
Speaker 1: a threat inside if we didn't make jump shots, which
Speaker 1: allowed that to open up the perimitive game. So it
Speaker 1: was that was a team that you know, there was
Speaker 1: determined too. They had good leadership at Marcus and Kenney
Speaker 1: and and I really believed when we look at that team,
Speaker 1: that seems really good. But if Mike Dixon stays with
Speaker 1: us the next year, I thought that team was an
Speaker 1: even better because we had still Mike, and then we
Speaker 1: had recruited you know, Lawrencepis team making, We had out
Speaker 1: to Yaki with Jabari Brown, we had Kean Bell. That
Speaker 1: team was super super talented and had a chance to
Speaker 1: be really good, but then we lost Mike Dixon before
Speaker 1: season got boring. Um, if somewhere were if if you
Speaker 1: wanted to make a statement about how and why it
Speaker 1: ended at Missouri, right, what what would what would what
Speaker 1: would you want people to understand? Oh man, that's a
Speaker 1: tough one. Um. I had. I had a great my
Speaker 1: family loves Columbia and UM my daughters, she dances competitively
Speaker 1: and that the dance company has se Pack is tremendous
Speaker 1: and helped her get her start. Um my wife loved
Speaker 1: the college town. Um it was. It was one of
Speaker 1: those things, does that you know, I just I'll be
Speaker 1: honest with you. Uh, you know, I had you know,
Speaker 1: I was told that at that time that you know,
Speaker 1: I was getting an extension and uh uh and then
Speaker 1: it didn't happen. And and you know, a professional standpoint, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta you gotta look out for your family.
Speaker 1: You gotta do a specify family. And I didn't feel
Speaker 1: good about that situation because of that, uh you know.
Speaker 1: And and there's nothing I didn't take anything personal. I
Speaker 1: just it's just that I felt like I had to
Speaker 1: do something. I had to do what was best for
Speaker 1: my family. And at that point in time, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: I felt we were successful and we were going to
Speaker 1: continue to be successful. Um. Um and uh but um,
Speaker 1: but not. I was incomfident that, uh, that they had
Speaker 1: enough confidence in me and supporting me to continue to
Speaker 1: be their head coach. And that's just been honest. And
Speaker 1: uh but you know, like I said, there's no howse
Speaker 1: films because I loved I still root for Canso to
Speaker 1: do well. There have a lot of passions for that
Speaker 1: university and what it stands for. And uh, but that
Speaker 1: was a tough decision for me to make at that time.
Speaker 1: But you know, obviously the only thing is on my
Speaker 1: mind was what was destiny and my family. You get
Speaker 1: to Tulsa and obviously that anybody who knows anything about
Speaker 1: basketball Tulsa went through has had some amazing coaches, right,
Speaker 1: I mean they had to run there. You know where
Speaker 1: you had Tubby, Steve Robinson, Bill Self, Buzz Peterson right
Speaker 1: like where he's like man just kind of lying up
Speaker 1: coach after coach. Um. And you know, you can go
Speaker 1: back obviously to the early mid eighties when they had
Speaker 1: Nolan As as their head coach. Great history of being competitive,
Speaker 1: but but there was there was some dormant years. Of course,
Speaker 1: you replaced Danny Manning, who had taken to the n
Speaker 1: c A tournament. What what did you when you first
Speaker 1: got to Tulsa. A lot of people thought, he's give
Speaker 1: me there for a year or two, then he's gonna
Speaker 1: move on. That's what everybody does a Tulsa. Um. When
Speaker 1: you first when you first got on boots on the
Speaker 1: ground in Tulsa, would you think, Yeah, I was excited
Speaker 1: about you know, obviously, when you take a good job,
Speaker 1: you excited about another start. And uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: knew about the tradition of the program, but I knew
Speaker 1: we were going to be we would have a different
Speaker 1: challenge on our hands because we were going to tack
Speaker 1: on a uh you know, a job that was going
Speaker 1: to be joining a conference at a different level. You know,
Speaker 1: the American compasses obviously a lot different encompassers said, and
Speaker 1: planning the competition that we were playing. I mean, Yukon
Speaker 1: had just won a national championship, uh two years prior
Speaker 1: and uh, and we were joining the comperence with the
Speaker 1: national champions and so um and uh obviously I think
Speaker 1: you look at my career, I've had jobs when we
Speaker 1: were taking over jobs, you know. And when I came
Speaker 1: to Miami, we were just joining the a SEC when
Speaker 1: I when I went to Missouri, we were only in
Speaker 1: the big troll we had and we went to the
Speaker 1: SEC and and you know, obviously moved there, and say,
Speaker 1: was a huge job. There's a different jump in those
Speaker 1: those other jumps, and uh, but I was excited about
Speaker 1: the opportunity. We had some really good players in our program.
Speaker 1: I mean, James Water and she Killed Harrison were really
Speaker 1: good players. And uh, those guys are got backcourt. When
Speaker 1: you got good guards, you know this, You're you're a
Speaker 1: really good guard on the team. And you know, when
Speaker 1: you got good guards, you got a chance. And uh
Speaker 1: so I felt like we had a chance. And obviously
Speaker 1: whoever you get back to the tournament my second year,
Speaker 1: um um, and and she Killed Harrison's that still playing
Speaker 1: the NBS. And there's a guy's a two star recruit's
Speaker 1: playing the NBA. And uh, Danny did a good job here.
Speaker 1: And I'd say Doug wog So who recruited a lot
Speaker 1: of those players too. There were some good solid players here.
Speaker 1: And we were a senior lady team, uh, a junior
Speaker 1: lady team, and and we were able to you know,
Speaker 1: since we's been in this league, we've won to play
Speaker 1: most games in this league. I don't know that people
Speaker 1: know that, uh behind Cincinnati and Houston and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we won more games in Memphis and Temple and other
Speaker 1: traditional rich basketball holmes in this league. But uh, I was,
Speaker 1: but I was excited for the challenge of you know,
Speaker 1: taking over team he's got some great tradition and joining
Speaker 1: a league that had some really good basketball, good coaches
Speaker 1: and uh and and I looked at as a great opportunity,
Speaker 1: uh to day to grow and and uh and and
Speaker 1: and I was excited about, you know, and now with
Speaker 1: them we had which to state and I think this
Speaker 1: it's it's been a great transition for them in this
Speaker 1: league and helping our league. And I think our league
Speaker 1: is perceived to be one of the better leagues in
Speaker 1: the country. Um, then you finally get it right, right,
Speaker 1: you get to your kind of the sweet spot where
Speaker 1: this year you're in first place in the league and
Speaker 1: now you can't go an n c A tournament appearance
Speaker 1: was definitely was pretty much a definite right and it
Speaker 1: gets right. Yeah, mean like I think, I mean the
Speaker 1: only I mean, you know, we can it was a
Speaker 1: weird year. I can't I couldn't see it not getting
Speaker 1: in you know you beat Houston. Um, you guys are
Speaker 1: playing with going yeah, I mean and you would and
Speaker 1: you would have had an opportunity to you would have
Speaker 1: been had an opportunity had the conference room had been
Speaker 1: played to beat those teams a second time, which would
Speaker 1: have it would have been end of end of discussion, right,
Speaker 1: but sho'd be You know, it's not you had road
Speaker 1: wins as well. Wasn't just that you want home games? Um?
Speaker 1: When your team had gotten better as the year went on.
Speaker 1: I mean, all you check out of all the boxes?
Speaker 1: For me, what looks and feels like an n c
Speaker 1: A tournament team? You win your league? What? What's that?
Speaker 1: What's it been like though? For um? For a kind
Speaker 1: of the dormancy of three months after really having your
Speaker 1: team rolling and expecting to get an n c A
Speaker 1: tournam at birth, it was tough, you know. And and
Speaker 1: it's funny. We were all at the tournament Coerce tournament
Speaker 1: and uh, you had the first round. By you you're
Speaker 1: starting to see the buzz with the cancelations of tournaments
Speaker 1: and and we got that word. We had to relay
Speaker 1: that to our team. I mean, we had we had
Speaker 1: two seniors that were terrific, terrific student athletes and Mark
Speaker 1: Zibano first team All Leaguer and lost with Kreta and
Speaker 1: the the the the the conversation and they need the
Speaker 1: look on their face of the emotions. Um, it was tough.
Speaker 1: It was tough. And then we you know, we drove
Speaker 1: to the tournament and we that drive back was tough.
Speaker 1: And then going in the locker room. Uh, and visit
Speaker 1: with those guys when we got back. I mean, just
Speaker 1: the fund fine nite of that was just incredible. I mean,
Speaker 1: you mean, how do you in the season. I've never
Speaker 1: obviously nobody has end of the season just like that,
Speaker 1: and uh, and we had a team that I think
Speaker 1: the way we played, you know, you established yourself as
Speaker 1: a coach, and you talked about how we played at
Speaker 1: Missouri and you know, you do different things, and but
Speaker 1: the way that team played defense, defense, I thought there
Speaker 1: was a chance to really be a problem for people
Speaker 1: in postseason played and I felt like and we were.
Speaker 1: We were a confident team. And you know, when you
Speaker 1: get your team to play to the level where they
Speaker 1: believe in what they're doing and you've got rotations, you
Speaker 1: got you got roles defined and everybody's buying in. Now
Speaker 1: you feel good about you've got something special, because that's
Speaker 1: all that's It's hard to get to that point, right,
Speaker 1: you know, when you build your team throughout the year,
Speaker 1: when you finally feel like you at that point where
Speaker 1: everybody understands their roles, they embrace it, they understand and
Speaker 1: embrace it. You you know, you you've got confidence in
Speaker 1: how you're playing, you know how you want to play day.
Speaker 1: I mean in terms of your your execution. Um, and
Speaker 1: I felt like it was it was it was a
Speaker 1: tough time and uh um, but you know it was
Speaker 1: the right call, you know, in terms of what was
Speaker 1: going on in our country. Um and I think that
Speaker 1: whereas I was disappointed and hurt for our seniors and
Speaker 1: our program, but it was the right call. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: Now you have as much as you losing Ban, who's
Speaker 1: a he was a monster, right, just an absolute monster,
Speaker 1: six really really talented kid. But most of your team
Speaker 1: is back next year. How have you like, how challenging
Speaker 1: has it been to re recruit him them get your
Speaker 1: new guys keptain? Like? What has this been like for you?
Speaker 1: It's such a hum you know, different right because we
Speaker 1: we we you know we had to We signed three
Speaker 1: guys before guys the spring, uh without even them visiting.
Speaker 1: And so that's been taught, you know, and and keep
Speaker 1: your guys engaged and um, you know when when you
Speaker 1: know there there's a moment of nothing right, no gym,
Speaker 1: No you can't be anywhere but you know, isolated and
Speaker 1: but but continue to visit with those guys in extremely
Speaker 1: import and in at the level where we're at, you
Speaker 1: know where this you know transfer epidemic is has become
Speaker 1: uh something that's uh prevalent and uh um but I
Speaker 1: will I will tell you that we you know, we've
Speaker 1: done a really good job of spending time with our players,
Speaker 1: talking with them, um, you know, and and and and
Speaker 1: with the zoom. But the technology we have today with
Speaker 1: Zoom calls uh and we're able to have a really
Speaker 1: good recruiting class too. I'm excited about that will give
Speaker 1: us some pieces. Uh. Missing a bottle is going to
Speaker 1: be tough because he's the first team all lager and
Speaker 1: even lost and to all those losses numbers, UH don't
Speaker 1: really say what his value was to our team, and
Speaker 1: he was. He's tremendous in the locker room, but also
Speaker 1: execution and you understand this stuff. Execution wise, he's unbelievable
Speaker 1: on both ends of the floor. And those things don't
Speaker 1: show up in the stats. Like he was always in
Speaker 1: the right place in our matchup zone. He was always
Speaker 1: where he needed to be in terms of rotating, taking
Speaker 1: a charge of you know, uh, you know that in
Speaker 1: terms of the rules in ourselves. And and then on offense,
Speaker 1: in terms of moving ball movement, what about having that
Speaker 1: guy and you were this guy, that one guy on
Speaker 1: your team that moved the ball. If you can absolutely
Speaker 1: count on when you know, when you need a ball moving,
Speaker 1: that ball gets you know, you know, sticking, novelcro, you
Speaker 1: want that ball star sticking. You want that one guy
Speaker 1: when he got it, he was gonna reverse it and
Speaker 1: and and can knock down open shot when he had it.
Speaker 1: But but that's what Lawson brought to this team. So
Speaker 1: we'll miss those two guys. But we had two guys
Speaker 1: sitting out, a really good two Oklahoma kids, um Turtis
Speaker 1: Heywood to transfer from Georgia Tech and and a Keyshawe
Speaker 1: Nambory Sinson the transferred Markansas. So I think a perimeter
Speaker 1: game will be really really good. Uh, you know, we've
Speaker 1: got we have to see what we we will have
Speaker 1: to be our post position? Will we have to man
Speaker 1: by three different guys rotating in there. Um, we won't
Speaker 1: get Martin's numbers by any one person, but hopefully collectively
Speaker 1: we'll be able to get something. But I do like
Speaker 1: what we will get from our primers in terms of
Speaker 1: what Tishan and Kurt Spring and then Brandon Rochelle, who's
Speaker 1: an all elite performer coming back. So I think we
Speaker 1: have a chance to be pretty good. But you know,
Speaker 1: Tom will tell and I said this about last year's
Speaker 1: team will pick ten, So you know, uh, Tom will
Speaker 1: tell you know in terms of how we developed and
Speaker 1: how we come together throughout the season. Last thing, Um,
Speaker 1: you have a great relationship and a good affinity for
Speaker 1: for Rick Barnes. I I didn't like him when we
Speaker 1: played against him because I didn't know he was so sarcastic, right,
Speaker 1: I didn't didn't you know? I was a kid. I
Speaker 1: had no idea. And um, I mean I've known him
Speaker 1: for a long time, sort of through Larry Shiatt, who
Speaker 1: recruited the West Coast back when they are Providence, and
Speaker 1: I like coach Shy, but I just didn't get And
Speaker 1: then I got to know Rick Barnes is like, he's
Speaker 1: the best. He's an unbelievable dude. Um, if give me,
Speaker 1: give somebody one story like this. Here's Rick Barnes in
Speaker 1: a nutshell go. Oh my god. I mean where, I mean,
Speaker 1: where do I start this guy? I was like, I mean, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I tell you the one and one of my favorite
Speaker 1: stories about Rick. Uh. We were Final four. Uh, two
Speaker 1: thousand and three. We're in the Final four. Uh, We're
Speaker 1: playing Syracuse and Rick is in the locker room and
Speaker 1: I would always sit with him and joke with him
Speaker 1: and talk to him. And I'm serious, I mean I
Speaker 1: kind of in and out, go get a bottle of water.
Speaker 1: And I walked back in the locker room and the
Speaker 1: suckers did dead to the bone sleep. He's out of it,
Speaker 1: and uh, I don't bother him. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I mean I could almost hear him snore. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was so he was, he was, he was stone
Speaker 1: out of it. And all of a sudden, Rick Barnes
Speaker 1: when the guys walked back in, he could turn it
Speaker 1: right on, like like a light switch. And uh that
Speaker 1: was That's so that got so impressive. And you know
Speaker 1: he you know, the one thing that I learned from
Speaker 1: coach is adaptability. And you know, when we got t J. Ford,
Speaker 1: and you know, you his constant teams, they were so
Speaker 1: motion oriented and ball movement, you know, cutting and they
Speaker 1: had those two big physical guys or blocker screeners. And
Speaker 1: and then when we got t J. Ford, he was
Speaker 1: you know, you put that ball in his hand, you
Speaker 1: let him put so to me, being able to adjust
Speaker 1: to your personnel, to me, that's coaching. That's what I
Speaker 1: learned from coach. You know, being being having the the
Speaker 1: the trust in yourself and not being fearful to change.
Speaker 1: And he was so good at that and and I
Speaker 1: love him for giving me that quality, you know. And
Speaker 1: I look at my career as a head coach. I
Speaker 1: haven't been afraid to change and to learn and and
Speaker 1: and and you know, every year you're learning, you you
Speaker 1: even get better, you get worse. You don't stay the same.
Speaker 1: And uh, he's one of those guys that is always
Speaker 1: looking at new ways to get some things done. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think his defense has been pretty staple,
Speaker 1: but I'll go I think he's changed that a little
Speaker 1: bit in terms of his aggressiveness on the ball and
Speaker 1: that's kind of coming on a little bit. But uh,
Speaker 1: but he's a special man. I mean, I love it.
Speaker 1: He's you know, he's he's one. He's one of my
Speaker 1: best friends. And I love him for what he's done
Speaker 1: for me and my family and rely on him. And
Speaker 1: and you know you've been around him. The guys never
Speaker 1: had a dull moment. I mean the guys. He's full
Speaker 1: of fun and and and and uh my wife absolutely
Speaker 1: loves Rick and he's just so joyable and he's just
Speaker 1: a great person. You know, he goes out of his way,
Speaker 1: um to do things for you. But he still has
Speaker 1: a insurance policy on my son that he paid and
Speaker 1: that he started. I mean, and I worked for him,
Speaker 1: I don't know what sixteen years ago, seventeen years ago,
Speaker 1: and uh we took it over, but he started it.
Speaker 1: And uh, he's just a good human being and uh
Speaker 1: loves people. Yeah, I think where we started it is
Speaker 1: kind of where we ended, right because that this is
Speaker 1: why basketball guys, I think struggles so much and coaches
Speaker 1: struggle so much with the idea of racism because when
Speaker 1: you said, like, look, you you gotta learn, you gotta evolve,
Speaker 1: you gotta adjust, and if you can't learn, evolve and
Speaker 1: adjust to the changing times and how views have changed
Speaker 1: and how people have changed how you need to treat them,
Speaker 1: then you're going to be a dinosaur and you're gonna
Speaker 1: be left behind. The same is true in life as
Speaker 1: as it is in sports. That fair, That's absolutely fair.
Speaker 1: And that's a great segue to what we just talked about.
Speaker 1: Is that's awesome. But that's exactly the way life is
Speaker 1: and what you just said. And if you don't, if
Speaker 1: you're not willing to change and adapt, uh, you'll become
Speaker 1: stale and you and you recharge your development. And that's
Speaker 1: that's that's life and I and I that's awesome, Dog,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you for saying that. Well, listen, I appreciate
Speaker 1: you coming on with us. You've always been kind of me.
Speaker 1: You always have an unbelievable staff. I can't believe you
Speaker 1: have Jerry Wayne. We haven't told me Jerry Wayne Wright
Speaker 1: stories those pier Main off air um. But the meantime,
Speaker 1: take take care of your family and your team. Can't
Speaker 1: wait to see you guys back in the Runalds Suttern
Speaker 1: next year. And and thanks for joining me. God bless you, dog,
Speaker 1: thank you be sure to catch the live edition of
Speaker 1: The Doug Gottlieb Show week days at three p m.
Speaker 1: Easter noon Pacific. Let me go from Frank Keith to
Speaker 1: Brandon golbl Now, I were in this kind of really
Speaker 1: odd new world right where my dad for years had
Speaker 1: Branch West Basketball and he he was like a placement
Speaker 1: service and actually for years he did it for free,
Speaker 1: where he would have his players and he would find
Speaker 1: the right fit. And his belief was, you know, anybody
Speaker 1: wants to play college basketball's good enough in starting their
Speaker 1: high school. We can find a place for you to
Speaker 1: play if you have grades. Whether you play or not,
Speaker 1: you just make the team. There's so many different levels
Speaker 1: to it, or at least before COVID nineteen and quarantine
Speaker 1: and the economy there that we're a lot of levels
Speaker 1: to it. Um. But then he basically ran a placement
Speaker 1: service and you know, you pay him to come evaluate
Speaker 1: your kid. Then he put together a highlight tape and
Speaker 1: they'd say, look, if I get you to this level,
Speaker 1: this is the level I think your kid can play at.
Speaker 1: You pay me, acts, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Brandon does this,
Speaker 1: you know, goodness of his heart, unbelievable service to the kids.
Speaker 1: He just loves ball, and they go around the country,
Speaker 1: around the world. They put on camps and they try
Speaker 1: and discover kids and then you know, bring the taste
Speaker 1: back and send them out to you know, put it
Speaker 1: on Twitter and just try and help. It's about the players.
Speaker 1: You can fall him on Instagram, um, and of course
Speaker 1: you can fall him on Twitter as well at Juco Advocate.
Speaker 1: He's he's uh, He's become a good friend and I
Speaker 1: think this is the perfect day to have him on.
Speaker 1: As Brandon Golbol joins us here in the All Ball podcast.
Speaker 1: Let me let me start with this. This is just
Speaker 1: a weird year. There's no Hutch right, So anybody who
Speaker 1: knows anything about Juco basketball, you know, like that's what
Speaker 1: team needs a guy late in a year, and Hutches
Speaker 1: different now, and Juco basketball is different now than it's
Speaker 1: ever been. How different from your perspective? Is a guy
Speaker 1: who's covered this for years, you really know players and
Speaker 1: recruiting and is the spring recruiting non recruiting period. So
Speaker 1: it was it was definitely interesting to see. Is everything
Speaker 1: kind of fell apart um really fast? Right, Like there
Speaker 1: was a lot of people that were just kind of
Speaker 1: still doing their normal recruiting stuff, saying, hey, we're gonna
Speaker 1: wait till Hutch. You know, we're not gonna really hit
Speaker 1: some of the conference tournaments and things like Hutch is
Speaker 1: gonna be fine, to everything's going to be fine. I
Speaker 1: was getting ready to go to Paris and run a
Speaker 1: camp over there and stuff, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: everything just like collapsed. And and so now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, these coaches are going we have these scholarships
Speaker 1: sitting here that we haven't done anything with, we haven't
Speaker 1: really dug in all that deep. We were waiting for Hutch,
Speaker 1: and now what do we do? And and so all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Uh, synergy, right, synergy was was spiking.
Speaker 1: Like their views on on junior college stuff was going
Speaker 1: up anyways in January and February as people were kind
Speaker 1: of preparing, but there their usage for junior college film
Speaker 1: just went to the room. I mean, it's it's the
Speaker 1: most it's ever been by leaps and bounds. And so
Speaker 1: people were suddenly hammered, hammering tape and and just trying
Speaker 1: to figure it all out, and uh, you know, making
Speaker 1: a million phone calls and and it's just it was
Speaker 1: a little bit chaotic honestly. Um, guys were getting offers
Speaker 1: from places that you're like, oh, man, like that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's too high, or you know that doesn't make any sense,
Speaker 1: or you know, it's just I think guys didn't know
Speaker 1: what to do, and so there was a little bit
Speaker 1: of a panic that set in. And it's it's chilled
Speaker 1: out some since then, but um, it was it was
Speaker 1: wild for a little bit. Who's been who's been the
Speaker 1: most impressive, like in terms of some of their late
Speaker 1: gets that you've noticed. Yeah, I think Kansas State actually
Speaker 1: did a really good job with getting Rudy Williams. And
Speaker 1: I know that saying like a high major and and
Speaker 1: stuff is uh kind of odd in the sense that
Speaker 1: like they should be able to get just about anybody
Speaker 1: that they want, But that was a really important one.
Speaker 1: Point Guards are really difficult to kind of lock down
Speaker 1: these days. In junior college. There's just not a lot
Speaker 1: of point guards. And they lost it, and they lost
Speaker 1: their point guard a transfer to I mean you know,
Speaker 1: so yeah, that's a you can't you cannot play that
Speaker 1: was probably arguably the best point guard in the class.
Speaker 1: And to get him late like that with all of
Speaker 1: the wild stuff going on, I think that was I
Speaker 1: think that was a huge move because a lot of
Speaker 1: the other big guys signed early. UM. You know, I
Speaker 1: think b y U grabbing getting in George late was
Speaker 1: like an all year process for them. UM, and they
Speaker 1: were able to kind of take advantage of the fact
Speaker 1: that they were able to sneak in a visit right
Speaker 1: at the last second before everything went crazy when we
Speaker 1: went and visited during the Gonzaga weekend. UM, that was
Speaker 1: a big one. To what happens with the Oklahoma State
Speaker 1: with Kate Cunningham, What do you think happens? Oh man,
Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't be surprised if k just sticks
Speaker 1: it out for you. I think he knows that regardless
Speaker 1: of postseason or not, you know, what he does this
Speaker 1: season can still mean a lot. And there's just so
Speaker 1: many unknown, weird things going on right now. Anybody making
Speaker 1: any Scotastic decision is taking a big risk. Here's what
Speaker 1: I've been told. I've been told the G League is
Speaker 1: telling these kids, hey, there's not gonna be a college
Speaker 1: basketball season, so you're hanging around for nothing. You know.
Speaker 1: Then the argument against the G League has been, you know,
Speaker 1: why would you want to play even if you're making money,
Speaker 1: play meaningless games? And so the G League in turn,
Speaker 1: for for Kate Cunningham's is like, yeah, our games don't
Speaker 1: necessarily mean anything, but not that this local mistake. You
Speaker 1: can't play for a conference tournament and he can't play
Speaker 1: in the n c A tournament. At least you can
Speaker 1: make some money. And I've been told he was offered
Speaker 1: a crazy amount of money back in December and January
Speaker 1: and that that amount might even go up at the
Speaker 1: end of the day if the money makes sense for
Speaker 1: him or something. I'm thanking. I guess you can never
Speaker 1: really knock a guy on that, but I think there's
Speaker 1: this there's a huge misconception about out there of what
Speaker 1: the G League and what the G League looks like
Speaker 1: when you play in it. I mean, these are a
Speaker 1: bunch of guys that fall intents and purposes, most of
Speaker 1: them should be in the NBA, but there's just not
Speaker 1: enough spot. There's players that at any given moment could
Speaker 1: contribute to a team. So now you're in this different
Speaker 1: style of basketball that's that's somewhat difficult to evaluate, especially
Speaker 1: if you're a new guy that's coming in there. Um,
Speaker 1: but if you go to a place like home the state,
Speaker 1: even for a year, and you don't play in the
Speaker 1: conference tournament, you don't play in the n c Double Tournament,
Speaker 1: but you have an entire season of your nonconference in
Speaker 1: Big twelve basketball. I mean, Julie Juligue is fine at all,
Speaker 1: But I just I feel like there's a lot to
Speaker 1: be made for him if he takes that chance and
Speaker 1: goes to college for a year. I I told him, listen,
Speaker 1: I agree, like you, what do you mean you're missing
Speaker 1: out on one or two Big twelve tournament games, maybe
Speaker 1: an n c A tournament game or two, you know,
Speaker 1: like maybe three. Like let's not let's not act like
Speaker 1: they would best team in the country. They have a
Speaker 1: chance to be really good. And obviously it sucks. But
Speaker 1: your brothers there. You get a chance to play for
Speaker 1: your brother for a year. Um, you get a chance
Speaker 1: to be part of a team. In your mind, I
Speaker 1: know Jalen Green is going to the G League. If
Speaker 1: you were if you were going to take a kid
Speaker 1: in the end, those two who would you take, probably
Speaker 1: taking cunning him. What I just think, I think, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, what he does for me,
Speaker 1: it is an easier translation. So I got to I
Speaker 1: got to watch him a little bit last summer um
Speaker 1: and and I just I just thought that what he
Speaker 1: does is kind of translate up a lot easier. I agree.
Speaker 1: I think I think he's I think he's a better
Speaker 1: basketball player. I think Jalen Green is a freak athlete
Speaker 1: who will make more jaw dropping plays that look good,
Speaker 1: you know, on social media and highlights. But Kay Cunningham
Speaker 1: really really knows how to play basketball, and he can
Speaker 1: play multiple positions, like he checks so many boxes for
Speaker 1: what you need not to be a good player, but
Speaker 1: be a great player in the NBA. Green has this
Speaker 1: level of burst that few guys have. But there's some
Speaker 1: other kind of holes. He's becoming a better shooter, but
Speaker 1: he's got to be the shooter, and you know, I
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if he, like Kay, doesn't
Speaker 1: have to go to a team and be the best
Speaker 1: player immediately, and he can still be really really effective,
Speaker 1: Whereas it feels like Jalen Green's only kind of played
Speaker 1: in a style in which he's give me the ball,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just go get a bucket, you know, right,
Speaker 1: And when you when you look at some of you know,
Speaker 1: even big names in the NBA, not the biggest names, right,
Speaker 1: Like we're not talking about Lebronze and and Kevin Durants
Speaker 1: and things like that that are just freak shows. But
Speaker 1: when you look at a lot of the guys in
Speaker 1: the NBA, guys that are successful, there's not a ton
Speaker 1: of them that do something that just is you know,
Speaker 1: out of the stratosphere athletically or something like that. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of really basketball players. And I think if
Speaker 1: you're a really good basketball player, like hey, like you said,
Speaker 1: that's going to translate faster. Now Green could get there,
Speaker 1: you know, if he continues to improve development, then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you add that to the fact that
Speaker 1: he is a free cathlete. But right away, right off
Speaker 1: the bat, I'm probably taking Ky just because I know
Speaker 1: I'm getting a better basketball player right away. You know
Speaker 1: what what I love about your site, by the way,
Speaker 1: the site is verbal commits dot com. And I love
Speaker 1: about your site is it it breaks it down through
Speaker 1: class and guys you're offering and I think the whole
Speaker 1: thing is fascinating. But we we did start to talk
Speaker 1: about the G league thing and my my deals with
Speaker 1: the G League like it's it in theory, it should
Speaker 1: be great, right, you take a handful of the kids
Speaker 1: that don't really want to go to college that are
Speaker 1: really good enough for your hand. But the problem is
Speaker 1: what we always see is now it's gonna be a
Speaker 1: hundred kids that think they're one of the five kids
Speaker 1: that can go right, and do they lock in on there?
Speaker 1: And and oh yeah, by the way, like what do
Speaker 1: you do for example, U c l A Like U
Speaker 1: c l A. That sucks? You know you the second
Speaker 1: the second that that staff got the job, they had
Speaker 1: one focus. Yeah, uh Dasian Nicks right, who's in Vegas? Like,
Speaker 1: that's the guy we need to go get And they
Speaker 1: move mountains to do everything. They get him to commit,
Speaker 1: they get him to sign, he's in. And then late
Speaker 1: in the game, the G League comes in and says,
Speaker 1: what if we paid you two on fifty grand? Now
Speaker 1: you know, look they still have Tigers, so there they'll
Speaker 1: be okay. Um, how do you think this G League
Speaker 1: thing affects not just what you do, but the overall
Speaker 1: landscape of college basketball recruiting? You know, I think it's
Speaker 1: something that is going to be a little chaotic to
Speaker 1: start with, and and we'll probably find its place. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, much like when we were drafting straight out
Speaker 1: of high school. Uh, you know, there were guys that
Speaker 1: that got drafted and they made their money, you know,
Speaker 1: so you can't really blame them for that they got drafted,
Speaker 1: but they flamed out and people kind of went back
Speaker 1: and forth on you know, taking booming school guys or
Speaker 1: maybe they should be taking more high school guys, and
Speaker 1: it kind of found its level before they shut that
Speaker 1: all down. And I think that's probably what's gonna end
Speaker 1: up happening with the G League because at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, if you've got you know, kids whatever
Speaker 1: it ends up being that decided to go straight to
Speaker 1: the G League, and only a few of them pan out,
Speaker 1: which is what is going to happen, people are kind
Speaker 1: of probably start rethinking that pretty quick. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's I don't I don't love the fact that the
Speaker 1: NBA is using um, you know, the D League and
Speaker 1: using some of the things, like they even do some
Speaker 1: of their stuff overseas, like with the the African League
Speaker 1: that they're putting together, and all of a sudden, like
Speaker 1: professional basketball is looking like the process rather than the reward,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think there's so many of these
Speaker 1: guys that are going to the G League that's still
Speaker 1: for the process and still have a lot to develop,
Speaker 1: but they're trying to jump straight to the reward right away.
Speaker 1: And yes, well that that look, that's and that's always
Speaker 1: been the problem. Like and even the success stories like that,
Speaker 1: this is where I'm different than other people. Dwight Howards
Speaker 1: the success story. Right he goes gets drafted in the NBA, drafted,
Speaker 1: He's probably a Hall of Fame. But you look at like,
Speaker 1: did Dwight Howard actually live up to his potential? And
Speaker 1: I would tell you know, and I think that the
Speaker 1: things that he struggle with socially, like learning to be
Speaker 1: around others, and like there's an arrested development there his personality.
Speaker 1: He just I guess people always say, well, he's a
Speaker 1: weird cat. And maybe he was a weird cat before,
Speaker 1: and maybe he would have been a weird cat if
Speaker 1: he went to college. But there's something disarming about being
Speaker 1: around only people your age and having to live in
Speaker 1: dorms and that and and play for a coach and
Speaker 1: play for a team um or as you know, when
Speaker 1: you play professional basketball right away and you're an eighteen
Speaker 1: year old kid, like you're thrown into an adult world.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things personally, and then his game itself,
Speaker 1: like he never really developed a post game, he never
Speaker 1: really developed a face up game. And what happens is
Speaker 1: kind of what you show up and arrive as you
Speaker 1: can become a better version of. But they're just some
Speaker 1: rounding out. Even Lebron has no idea, has never had
Speaker 1: any idea how to play without the basketball ever. And
Speaker 1: I think that stuff would help. And I like it's
Speaker 1: one of those questions where Jordan's to me is the
Speaker 1: greatest of all time. But I think one of the
Speaker 1: things that really helped him and and he wouldn't have
Speaker 1: he was People make it out like he was a
Speaker 1: scrub out of high school, like it was McDonald's All American,
Speaker 1: set the all time scoring record in the McDonald's game.
Speaker 1: But I do think that playing for Dean Smith rounding
Speaker 1: him out as a player, and then you combined it
Speaker 1: with otherworldly athleticism and talent and he was able to become,
Speaker 1: you know, the all time great. I just I just
Speaker 1: think there's so much missing and we we downplay it,
Speaker 1: but it's it does work, It does it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that the other way won't work and doesn't provide opportunities.
Speaker 1: But no one who can really play has gone to
Speaker 1: college and all of a sudden like, well they can't
Speaker 1: actually play and the college ruined him. College doesn't ruin you.
Speaker 1: It simply promotes you and rounds you out for the
Speaker 1: most part. And I get the thing with you know, well,
Speaker 1: if I go to college and I heard and I
Speaker 1: missed the opportunity, for sure. I mean there's a risk
Speaker 1: in anything that you do. You go to the jew
Speaker 1: League for you know, grand and get hurt like it's
Speaker 1: over there too. Um. You know, I'm a believer in
Speaker 1: the best development system in the world before you're eight
Speaker 1: team is probably somewhere over in Europe. But once you
Speaker 1: turn eighteen, the best development system in the world is
Speaker 1: in college in America. And and the G League does
Speaker 1: not is not set up, is not designed to provide that.
Speaker 1: It's not like we used to call it the D League,
Speaker 1: the Developmental League. Not a lot of developing that goes
Speaker 1: on in that. In that league, it's it's ride or die,
Speaker 1: like try and survive and if somebody see something that
Speaker 1: they need, then you get your shot. In the NBA
Speaker 1: and if you stay awesome, right, Like it was perfect
Speaker 1: for a guy like one to Scott Anderson that went
Speaker 1: to Marquette, still needed to develop a lot in his game,
Speaker 1: goes and plays pro in Mexico too, shot in the
Speaker 1: G League and then boom takes off and heads to
Speaker 1: the Warriors. But like, there was a lot of work
Speaker 1: that went in between that Warrior's contract, and even when
Speaker 1: he was playing at Marquette, it wasn't and he was
Speaker 1: the top and and so it wasn't just this like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm just gonna go straight to the G league. Um.
Speaker 1: And they're doing it with international guys too. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: there's there's an Indian player that is phenomenal that's playing
Speaker 1: down in the Global Academy and his government is like, no,
Speaker 1: he's just gonna go straight. That's not what this is for. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: I think and look, and I do think that the
Speaker 1: n c A they hurt themselves by making it harder
Speaker 1: for international players than it should be easier. Right, there's
Speaker 1: you know and this cancer like yeah, and its cancer
Speaker 1: was a pro. When he played played in Turkey, I
Speaker 1: got it. Everyone knew he wasn't gonna play in college
Speaker 1: if they actually looked. They looked and nothing, but why like,
Speaker 1: if he wants to play in college, great, you know
Speaker 1: who can? Like, Okay, so he got paid back home.
Speaker 1: I don't care is he getting paid here? You know,
Speaker 1: as long as not getting paid to come here, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm good, It's fine by me. I do think that
Speaker 1: college basketball hurts itself. Um, give me the best tape
Speaker 1: that somebody sent you of a guy that you didn't
Speaker 1: you maybe hadn't heard of or hadn't seen. And somebody
Speaker 1: sends you a tape and this can be any time
Speaker 1: during your time doing this, and you're like, holy shit,
Speaker 1: what did that? What did I just see? This kid
Speaker 1: can really play? Doesn't have to be not now owly
Speaker 1: can me anytime? You know? What's interesting is, uh, the
Speaker 1: international stuff is always one of those weird places where
Speaker 1: completely context, Right, you have no idea who they're playing against, right,
Speaker 1: you don't. I've seen their national taste. People sent to
Speaker 1: me like, hey, we signed this international kid. What do
Speaker 1: you think. I'm like, I don't know who he's playing against? Right,
Speaker 1: Because sometimes the game it's like is this played at
Speaker 1: half speed? Right? Are these is this a beer league?
Speaker 1: Or these guys really are these kids fifteen or sixteen
Speaker 1: and he's eighteen or nineteen, right, okay, but go ahead
Speaker 1: with the international stuff. So the thing that really just
Speaker 1: surprised me about this one, this was a kid that
Speaker 1: was about to get ready to play you eighteen division
Speaker 1: SAT right, So we're we're down the line here in FIBA,
Speaker 1: and somebody sent me some tape on a kid named No.
Speaker 1: One Nelson who played junior college this year for Otero
Speaker 1: and huge right six somewhere in there. He's at the time,
Speaker 1: he's probably two something like that, and this kid is
Speaker 1: running like a year. He's he's about see through. He's
Speaker 1: so white, being from Ireland, with this mop of red
Speaker 1: hair on his head, and I'm just like, this doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense. Like if this kid was in America
Speaker 1: right now, like he'd be blowing the hell up because
Speaker 1: he's massive and he's athletic and he can catch and
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. And so somebody sent me
Speaker 1: this tape on this kid, and I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm I guess I'm diving into FIBA Division
Speaker 1: C and uh and watched the Ireland play. I don't
Speaker 1: even know like some of these places like Micronesia and
Speaker 1: just these tiny little these little countries and stuff, and
Speaker 1: sure enough, I mean, that kid just took off. He's
Speaker 1: going to Wyoming this year after one year in junior college.
Speaker 1: And it was it was eye opening because that was
Speaker 1: three years ago. I think that I first saw him
Speaker 1: and really really exposed me to the fact that there
Speaker 1: are players everywhere, you know, and and I've seen better days, right,
Speaker 1: I've seen I've seen better players obviously, but I've that
Speaker 1: was one that was just shocking where it's like, man,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter where you like, you know. I remember
Speaker 1: remember Adidas Nations they used to have and I don't
Speaker 1: know this time, and they used to have it. I
Speaker 1: remember like the first year and I was doing stuff
Speaker 1: with the Dais at the time, and they had me
Speaker 1: come down to talk to the kids, and I think
Speaker 1: we're in New Orleans and at the then it was
Speaker 1: the Hornets facility whatever, and it was just hottest can being.
Speaker 1: I go in this gym and I'm watching Team Africa
Speaker 1: play and one guy looked different than everybody else. I
Speaker 1: was like, who's that dude. They're like Serge Ibaka and
Speaker 1: I was like, that's there's your player, Like, well, there's
Speaker 1: this guy that guys like, no, that guy's your player.
Speaker 1: And I was just he the way he moved, the
Speaker 1: way he ran, the way he even shot the basketball
Speaker 1: at that time was before he's the shooter that he
Speaker 1: is now you could just kind of tell those things are.
Speaker 1: But you're right. The there's guys everywhere is a uh
Speaker 1: is a great one. Um, okay, how can people get
Speaker 1: how can people follow you? I gave away Twitter, I
Speaker 1: gave away verbal commits, dot Com anywhere else we we
Speaker 1: can get all your information. Uh yeah, I mean really
Speaker 1: on on Twitter is kind of our our main communication source.
Speaker 1: That's where you'll see a lot of the stuff that
Speaker 1: we do when we go overseas. We go to Africa,
Speaker 1: the Caribbean, all that kind of stuff, run camps over there,
Speaker 1: helped bring kids over the college. We brought twenty two
Speaker 1: kids over in the last two and a half years
Speaker 1: and playing in schools now and then we do the
Speaker 1: Live Period podcast as well. That's been fun. We just
Speaker 1: kind of started that during the during the Rhuna and
Speaker 1: sat down and said, hey, you know, let's let's do
Speaker 1: this and uh and it's it's been great. It's been fun.
Speaker 1: So it's allowing us to kind of get our message
Speaker 1: out there a little bit more and work on some
Speaker 1: different stuff and uh and and you know, just kind
Speaker 1: of find new things to get into. Well. The best
Speaker 1: thing is that, you know, you get to learn some
Speaker 1: of these kids stories and meet him and you just
Speaker 1: you end up want to cheer for him. It's a
Speaker 1: it's a cool it's a cool thing that you do
Speaker 1: at juco Advocate. At juco Advocate is on Twitter Brandon
Speaker 1: Global is his name? Brandon? Great catching up. We'll do
Speaker 1: so again in the very near future. And thanks so
Speaker 1: much for joining us. I appreciate my friend. Be good.
Speaker 1: All right, that's it for All Ball. You can listen
Speaker 1: to The Doug Gottlieb Show daily three to six Eastern
Speaker 1: twelve three Pacific on Fox Sports Trader, the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app on Sirius XM. We're now on the Dan
Speaker 1: Patrick channel and two seventeen Serious XM. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: feel free to ask questions on the Instagram page at
Speaker 1: Gottlieb Show or the Twitter handle at Gottlieb Show. I
Speaker 1: hope you appreciate listening to it. Thanks so much. I'm
Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball.