WEBVTT - When Sales Is a Calling

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Season five of On the Job, a podcast

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<v Speaker 1>about finding your life's work. On the job is brought

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<v Speaker 1>to you by Express Employment Professionals, a leading staffing provider

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<v Speaker 1>that employees nearly six hundred thousand people annually across more

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<v Speaker 1>than eight hundred thirty franchise locations in the US, Canada,

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<v Speaker 1>South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. Our vision is to

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<v Speaker 1>help as many people as possible find good jobs by

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<v Speaker 1>helping as many clients as possible find good people. Whether

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking for your first job or you're seeking a

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<v Speaker 1>new challenge in your career, Express Employment Professionals will be

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<v Speaker 1>with you every step of the way. We understand what

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<v Speaker 1>it takes to land a new position at a top

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<v Speaker 1>employer in today's job market. Plus, we never charge a

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<v Speaker 1>fee to find you a job. And just like finding

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<v Speaker 1>a job, finding the best people to fill open positions

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<v Speaker 1>in your company requires more than sorting through applications. It

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<v Speaker 1>takes real people, real interviews, discovering the skills you need.

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<v Speaker 1>At Express, we find people for jobs and companies of

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<v Speaker 1>all sizes and industries, from the production floor to the

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<v Speaker 1>front office to the c suite. Express Nose Jobs get

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<v Speaker 1>to know Express. This is on the Job, a podcast

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<v Speaker 1>about finding your life's work. On the job, is brought

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<v Speaker 1>to you by Express Employment Professionals. This season, we're bringing

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<v Speaker 1>you stories of folks following their passion to carve their

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<v Speaker 1>own career path. To start off this season, I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to focus on a kind of overlooked occupation, a job

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<v Speaker 1>that if you're good at it, people might not know

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<v Speaker 1>that you're doing it. All right, I'm according working in sales.

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<v Speaker 1>So for this episode, I talked to a guy named

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<v Speaker 1>Chris in Baltimore. Chris Lundy forty two years old. Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>She He is a clinical oncology specialist, which basically is

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<v Speaker 1>a fancy term for I sell key in your drugs.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris has worn a lot of hats besides being a

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<v Speaker 1>pharmaceutical rep in his career, but he says that no

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<v Speaker 1>matter what it was, he was born to sell, and

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<v Speaker 1>so were you. We've all been We've all been selling.

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<v Speaker 1>We just didn't know it. If you've ever dated, you've sold,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, maybe not successfully, but maybe not successfully. But

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<v Speaker 1>think about that, right, You gotta you gotta a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of times you gotta go to someone who's a perfect

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<v Speaker 1>stranger and you have to bring that person along a

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<v Speaker 1>continuum that makes this perfect stranger. Kiss you. It's all

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<v Speaker 1>about relationships. It's all about relationships, man, Thank you that

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<v Speaker 1>that's the that's the point the dating game aside. He's right,

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<v Speaker 1>we do all sell each other on ideas constantly. We

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<v Speaker 1>convinced people to think about us differently, by how we dress,

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<v Speaker 1>by what our social media looks like. And Chris's approach

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<v Speaker 1>to sales is that people really can tell when someone's

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<v Speaker 1>not being real. I think that everybody has a like

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<v Speaker 1>authenticity radar. I really do. And I think that if

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<v Speaker 1>if people sensed it, like, wait a second, this guy

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<v Speaker 1>is not some some's fishy about them, I think they

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<v Speaker 1>start to close up. You know. He says that's what

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<v Speaker 1>sets him apart. There are a lot of salespeople who

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<v Speaker 1>will treat their clients like a walking dollar sign and

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<v Speaker 1>say anything to sell their product at let I see me.

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<v Speaker 1>I just I can't do any of that stuff. You

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<v Speaker 1>gotta be authentic, because again, you're trying to convince someone

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<v Speaker 1>to think differently. You're trying to convince someone to behave differently.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not hey, here's a pen that I want you

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<v Speaker 1>to buy. Give me money, I'll give you this pen.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to change your behavior. I'm trying to get

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<v Speaker 1>it to the point where every time a patient comes

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<v Speaker 1>in with disease X, you think about me and you

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<v Speaker 1>think about my product. That's a behavior. Man. The Chris

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<v Speaker 1>you're hearing now, that's the Chris whose job it is

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<v Speaker 1>to be likable, to constantly be talking to people, and

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<v Speaker 1>generally be pretty extroverted. But growing up just outside of

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<v Speaker 1>d C as a kid, he was a lot different.

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of was like a little loner, geek kind

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<v Speaker 1>of kid. I love comic books, you know. I remember

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<v Speaker 1>my mother used to talk about that. How I could

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<v Speaker 1>be in my room and if it weren't for having

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<v Speaker 1>to eat food, I could be in my room for

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<v Speaker 1>like eight nine hours. Just I didn't pay I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>pay a lot of attention to the real world. My

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<v Speaker 1>my mind was always always daydreaming, always all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>That was his life for a while, in his own world.

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<v Speaker 1>His favorite comic book here was Adam Warlock. He kept

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<v Speaker 1>to himself right up until about the tenth grade. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember writing an essay. I don't even remember what was

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<v Speaker 1>what it was about. The teacher was Mr Howard. It

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<v Speaker 1>looked like he wasn't even sure that I actually wrote it,

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<v Speaker 1>Like he may have suspected plagiarism or something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>And so and like he took you like he made

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<v Speaker 1>you stay after classes thing too, because he thought you

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<v Speaker 1>didn't write it. Well, it's not that he was being accusatory.

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<v Speaker 1>It was more like disbelief, you know, like where I'm from, man,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I'm I'm kind of from like the hood man,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, so you don't get a whole bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>uh like writing talent. So I think that it just

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<v Speaker 1>really stood out for him. And he pauses and looks

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<v Speaker 1>at me. He goes, you're a really good writer. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you know that the proof was there? He had one

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<v Speaker 1>essay and speech contest before, but he didn't figure it

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<v Speaker 1>was because he was good. I thought other people sucked,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. So it took a while to realize, like,

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<v Speaker 1>wait a second, Wait a second, Maybe maybe it's not

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<v Speaker 1>that everybody else runs slow. Maybe I am actually fast.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I just kind of took off. I

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<v Speaker 1>just started talking more, sharing the thoughts I had instead

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<v Speaker 1>of suppressing him, and people people you know, liked it.

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<v Speaker 1>It worked. This late blooming moment really set him on

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<v Speaker 1>the trajectory to where he is now. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>It just changed overnight, it seemed, and all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>I was like Mr. Social extrovert, you know, a type personality,

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<v Speaker 1>Homecoming King, captain of the football team. It was. It was.

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<v Speaker 1>It was not gradual. After high school, he went off

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<v Speaker 1>to college and got an English degree, where he was

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<v Speaker 1>also acting in plays and had his own radio show

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<v Speaker 1>on campus. I started to really hone my skills in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of communicating and sharing ideas. The first big job

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<v Speaker 1>he got out of school before Pharma, was working with

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<v Speaker 1>the Philadelphia Eagles in the PR department media relations, So

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<v Speaker 1>everything from setting up interviews Let's say ESPN wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to our quarterback or something. You know, um, I

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<v Speaker 1>would facilitate that. He was basically the liaison between players

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<v Speaker 1>and the public. So his skill set would kick in

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<v Speaker 1>during moments where say, he and some players might stop

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<v Speaker 1>at a Wendy's while on the road and inevitably get

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<v Speaker 1>crowded by fans asking for autographs. My job one of

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<v Speaker 1>the things I had to do. I had to be

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<v Speaker 1>the no guy, because you can't have a superstar player,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, shutting people down, telling them no. They look bad,

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<v Speaker 1>so I had to be the bad guy. Having lived

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<v Speaker 1>in Philly myself for a couple of years, I can

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<v Speaker 1>say that they're not fans that like being told no exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess, like, what is the biggest thing you

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<v Speaker 1>learned from that job? When like when like nobody wants

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<v Speaker 1>to hear this, that or that, Like you gotta win

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<v Speaker 1>at the end of the day, what's your record. I've

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<v Speaker 1>got an NFC Championship ring. When I pull it out,

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<v Speaker 1>people think it's a super Bowl ring because it's big

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<v Speaker 1>and it's full of diamonds and stuff. It's not a

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<v Speaker 1>super Bowl ring, Like we weren't that proud of that ring.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an NFC Championship ring, which means there was a

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<v Speaker 1>ring that was bigger than that, and that's the ring

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<v Speaker 1>we wanted. We'll get back to the story in a second. First,

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<v Speaker 1>a word from Express Employment Professionals. A strong work ethic

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<v Speaker 1>takes pri in a job well done. This is you.

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<v Speaker 1>But to get an honest day's work, you need a

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<v Speaker 1>call back. You need a job. Express Employment Professionals can help.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll connect you to the right company. We're committed to

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<v Speaker 1>your success and never charge a fee to find you

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<v Speaker 1>a job Express Nose Jobs, get to know Express, find

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<v Speaker 1>your location at express pros dot com or on the

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<v Speaker 1>Express jobs app. Now back to on the job. After

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<v Speaker 1>the NFL, he wanted to make the leap to pharmaceutical sales,

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<v Speaker 1>so he went for a job at Merk, a huge company,

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<v Speaker 1>and they basically said, you were in media relations. You

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<v Speaker 1>don't have any experience in sales. And I tried. I

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<v Speaker 1>had to explain to them, Listen, every day I have

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<v Speaker 1>to convince young millionaires, egotistical millionaires, to do things that

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<v Speaker 1>they don't want to do, you know. And if you

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<v Speaker 1>don't think that sales, that I and I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what to tell you, you know. And so that that

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<v Speaker 1>line actually got me in the door. So he could

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<v Speaker 1>obviously talk to talk. But the job isn't selling a

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<v Speaker 1>product to the general public. It's selling life saving drugs

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<v Speaker 1>to medical professionals. And they don't know you, so the

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<v Speaker 1>trust isn't there. You know, You're you're trying to convince

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<v Speaker 1>a doctor to practice a certain way, and this guy

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<v Speaker 1>knows that he's got more education than you, he's got

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<v Speaker 1>more expertise than you, but he's supposed to listen to

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<v Speaker 1>what you're telling him to do like, that's insane. The

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<v Speaker 1>marketing department would train reps to go in with fancy

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<v Speaker 1>graphs and selling points, but Chris did the exact opposite,

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<v Speaker 1>meeting with doctors for multiple appointments without mentioning his product

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<v Speaker 1>at all. And so I started by asking questions like,

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<v Speaker 1>what's important to you? What do you not care about?

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me about your patients, what are your needs? What

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<v Speaker 1>keeps you up in night? Those kinds of things I'm saying,

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<v Speaker 1>tell me about you. And then once the relationship be set,

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<v Speaker 1>and once that rapport is there, now we can talk

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<v Speaker 1>about what I have to offer and what I what

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<v Speaker 1>I can do and you know, provide for you and

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<v Speaker 1>your patients. In an old fashioned industry full of reps

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<v Speaker 1>just trying to sell cell cell, Chris's authenticity started to

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<v Speaker 1>really shine through. And once I saw like my numbers

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<v Speaker 1>start to reflect what I was actually doing, I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>how about that? I wanted to get Mr Howard on

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<v Speaker 1>the line and tell him. Look, man, he got to

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<v Speaker 1>see selling around New York City, where the competition was fierce,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was one experience early on in his career

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<v Speaker 1>that really stuck with him. So there was this doctor

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<v Speaker 1>he was huge He had an office in like a

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<v Speaker 1>nice area in New York. I don't remember where this was,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was nice, fancy, nice, pretty office. You couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>see this doc. You go in, there's there's other reps

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<v Speaker 1>from other companies all over the place. You'd wait for

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<v Speaker 1>two hours and still barely even get, you know, ten

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<v Speaker 1>seconds with this guy. Chris and other reps noticed that

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<v Speaker 1>this doctor was never there on Tuesdays. They all assumed

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<v Speaker 1>it was his day all but after some digging, Chris

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<v Speaker 1>found out those weren't his off days. Tuesdays where his

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<v Speaker 1>Picking Avenue days. Picking Avenue is the avenue in Brooklyn

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<v Speaker 1>that you do not want to go to, right Like,

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<v Speaker 1>you gotta have Picking Avenue. You're getting robbed, you getting mugs,

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<v Speaker 1>something's going wrong. It's a dangerous part of town. It

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<v Speaker 1>turns out that doctor was from a pretty rough neighborhood

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<v Speaker 1>and those were his days to give back to the

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<v Speaker 1>community at a small clinic. So Chris decided that's where

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<v Speaker 1>he'd go. I understand that I probably probably get my

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<v Speaker 1>my wheels and rim stolen from my car, but I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to Picking Avenue and I went in and I

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<v Speaker 1>told the receptionist that you know I was a pharmaceutical rep.

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<v Speaker 1>And she looked at me like I was an alien,

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<v Speaker 1>like what like, we're actually getting a pharmaceutical rep here?

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<v Speaker 1>Like are you sure you want to be here? After

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<v Speaker 1>about an hour, he got to see the doctor. He

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<v Speaker 1>was so happy. He first first he was shocked because

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<v Speaker 1>no one went there, and he was happy that he

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<v Speaker 1>was actually getting attention at this location at Picking Avenue

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<v Speaker 1>for his patients on Picking freaking Avenue. And then the

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<v Speaker 1>doctor started to criticize farmer reps he'd interacted with, because

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<v Speaker 1>they'll always go to the fancy office but never there

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<v Speaker 1>because it's not a lot of money in it, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you got a lot of patients on like state care

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<v Speaker 1>or governmental care. It's not a nice, fun, easy place

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<v Speaker 1>to go. And that's how Chris started building a relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with this doctor to the point where at the plush office,

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<v Speaker 1>I was able to walk in and reps are like mad,

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<v Speaker 1>like what are you doing going back? How's he getting

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<v Speaker 1>back there? But that's what he was. I went to

0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 1>Picking Avenue. I served him where he needed to be served.

0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.800
<v Speaker 1>I carry that everywhere and go what do you need?

0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, think about it. Right in sales, you gotta

0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.880
<v Speaker 1>use car lot. That car salesman isn't thinking about what

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:00.840
<v Speaker 1>you need. He's thinking about how can I get what

0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.640
<v Speaker 1>I want out of you? Right, And so if you're

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:08.439
<v Speaker 1>a salesperson but your lead foot is what do you need? Man,

0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.760
<v Speaker 1>you're just differentiating yourself right there, right off the break.

0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.680
<v Speaker 1>You're not like the others. So that really gets on

0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.480
<v Speaker 1>the point of like, when I think a lot of

0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:22.080
<v Speaker 1>people think of sales as a occupation, they probably think

0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 1>of like they used car guy. But um, to go

0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.480
<v Speaker 1>back to your comic book days, do think you use

0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:33.640
<v Speaker 1>your powers for good? I do? I do, I see

0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.800
<v Speaker 1>and also work with people who don't. And when we're

0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.080
<v Speaker 1>talking about the pharmaceutical industry, we're talking about a lot

0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.800
<v Speaker 1>of money. So yeah, there there's a lot of negative

0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 1>stigma you know that comes with it, um, and it's

0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.120
<v Speaker 1>unfortunate because the people who do do it the right way,

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:57.000
<v Speaker 1>they really are like changing people's lives. Chris started off

0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.440
<v Speaker 1>in primary care generic drugs, and that he works with

0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.920
<v Speaker 1>cancer drugs. It's different. He'll go into an appointment talking

0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.080
<v Speaker 1>about a drug that could help a particular patient, and

0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:12.040
<v Speaker 1>the next appointment that patients no longer with us, you know,

0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.480
<v Speaker 1>like we can't even pick up on the conversation because

0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 1>the patient is gone. It's a much more urgent world

0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 1>over here. There are real stakes involved. This isn't just

0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.800
<v Speaker 1>paullen allergy meds. Yeah, yeah, this is this is life

0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.720
<v Speaker 1>for death over here. Was ever a moment in your

0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 1>career where you thought, this is why I do what

0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 1>I do? Um? A couple of years back, we were

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.120
<v Speaker 1>at a sales conference and they brought in an elderly

0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 1>woman who had stage four lung cancer. That's usually uh,

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, like all right, see you see you later,

0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.000
<v Speaker 1>get your affairs in order kind of thing. The woman

0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 1>told a story about how her grandson was trying to

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>lift her spirits and made her promise to go skydiving

0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 1>with him later that year. And now her she was

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 1>convinced that she wasn't, you know, gonna be around long.

0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 1>So sure, Scott, I haven't no problem. And it didn't

0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 1>matter what he said. He could say we're gonna go

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.880
<v Speaker 1>to Mars, she'd be like, yep. And she was telling

0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:15.880
<v Speaker 1>us this story, and then behind her they pull up

0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:21.240
<v Speaker 1>the picture of her jumping out of the plane. She

0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.680
<v Speaker 1>lived because of our drug, and she kept her promise

0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.720
<v Speaker 1>that she never thought she would have to with her grandson.

0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.360
<v Speaker 1>They both jumped out of a plane together. To hear

0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.800
<v Speaker 1>that story and to see that image, it's like damn, Like, yo,

0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:46.280
<v Speaker 1>we really are helping save people's actual lives. Just throwing

0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:51.120
<v Speaker 1>a scenario your way. You sold the drug to her

0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 1>doctor that saved her life and allowed her to have

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:59.000
<v Speaker 1>this moment, and she never knows your name. How do

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:03.800
<v Speaker 1>you feel about that? M that's all right, that's all right. Yeah,

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.680
<v Speaker 1>that's okay. Because um, we won and we went to

0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.880
<v Speaker 1>the playoffs. We we got the big ring, you know. So, yeah,

0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 1>hasn't it hasn't. It doesn't matter. The job got done.

0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:44.600
<v Speaker 1>For on the Job, I'm Motus Gray. Thanks for listening

0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.840
<v Speaker 1>to On the Job, brought to you by Express Employment Professionals.

0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.320
<v Speaker 1>The season of On the Job is produced by Audiation.

0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 1>The episodes were written and produced by me Otis Gray.

0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 1>Our executive producer is Sandy Smallens. The show was mixed

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.800
<v Speaker 1>by Matt Noble for audiences studios at the Loft in Bronxville,

0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.560
<v Speaker 1>New York. Music by Blue Dot Sessions. Find us on

0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.119
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio and Apple Podcasts. If you liked what

0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 1>you heard, please consider rating and reviewing the show on

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts or rerever. You listen, we'll see you next time.

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:31.040
<v Speaker 1>For more inspiring stories about discovering your life's work, audiation