WEBVTT - Open vs. Closed: A TechStuff Debate 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camra. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:08.840 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:14.480 tex Stuff from hou stufferks dot com. This episode of 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:16.639 tech Stuff is brought to you by Hover dot com. 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.400 Hover is all about making domain registration and service simple. 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.599 Rather than selling a ton of services, they focus on 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.319 making it easy to register and manage domains and emails. However, 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:31.320 has two new domain services, Premium Domains and Clunker trade Ins. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.560 If you have any Clunker domains registered with Hover now, 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:36.959 you can trade them in. If you have domains you've 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.519 registered or renewed it Hovered and you'd like to upgrade 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.720 your domain, however, will take your old domains back. However, 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.159 will credit you everything you've spent on your old clunker 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.560 with Hover, the original registration fee and any renewal fees. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.240 Visit Hover today at Hover dot com slash tex stuff. 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.480 If you need a standard domain, use offer code tex 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.080 stuff and get ten percent off. If you want to 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.240 trade in a clunker, just call the custom of our 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.400 service number on their website or email. That's Hover dot 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:10.959 com slash tech stuff. Hello, They're welcome to tech Stuff. 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:12.839 My name is Chris Poulette and I am an editor 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.400 at How Stuff Works, sitting across from me, debatedbly Is, 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.959 as always a senior writer Jonathan st I had the 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.120 story bit by bit from various people, and as generally 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.839 happens in such cases, each time it was a different story. 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.679 So today we're going to have a goofy little debate 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:35.000 about open systems versus closed systems. We just decided that 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.200 we're going to experiment with this. We've never done one 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.399 of these before, and in fact, we decided on it 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.440 about thirty seconds before we started recording, and so to 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:47.119 determine who would represent which side, we did the most 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.480 scientific thing we could think of. We flipped a coin. 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.520 It's the quarter United States quarter for those of you 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.760 who think that matters. Uh. And it turns out that 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.200 mint did it come from? Um you know what? I 0:01:58.200 --> 0:01:59.760 put it back in my pocket, So I don't know. 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.720 But but Mr Chris rigged. Mr Chris Philette will be 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.600 representing the open system side and I shall be representing 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:09.600 the closed system side. So I think that proves it 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.480 wasn't rigged. Look at the kind of phone I'm using. 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.720 So anyway, Uh, I think I think in order to 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:18.560 really understand what we're talking about. First, we have to 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.400 establish what we mean by an open versus a closed system. 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.680 So let me tell you what a closed system is. 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.480 Closed system is quality people. That's what a closed system is. 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:34.040 Closed system is where you create a an infrastructure, uh 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.760 an ecosystem, if you will, where you control as many 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.640 of the factors as you possibly can, and you don't 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:46.359 allow outside influences to change your system. So an example 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.360 of a company that takes the closed system approach is Apple. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.400 That's not to say that Apple only does the closed 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.160 off approach. If it did, then you would never be 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.400 able to run any other kind of software or app 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.720 on Apple products. You would only be able to run 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:05.200 Apple created stuff. But it's an example of a system 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.080 because it's more closed than it is open. And there 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.119 are various reasons for doing this, but we'll get into 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.880 that in the debate. But that that's kind of what 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.040 how I define a closed system. It's one where you're 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.639 trying to control as much as possible, and it's all 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:20.840 coming from or as much of it as possible is 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.200 coming from a single source, and the outside stuff is 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.120 shut away. Yes, And and I think as we talk 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.640 about this, our listeners will realize that there are few 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:36.880 absolutes in this discussion. Very true. Okay, so open source 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:42.080 information wants to be free, and the ore are computing 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:46.560 devices should too. It's the only way to be, uh, 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.920 you know, free to be you and me? Um okay 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:55.000 yea hippy. No, an open system is is something that 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.080 is not made for corporate gain. It is out there 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.720 for the public to use. Anybody who wants to make 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.480 a contribution to it. Can people can use it, uh 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.200 if they want to. And there it's it's there as 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.440 offered as a public service. Um. And is therefore the 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:16.560 people of the people, by the people, and you closed 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.560 system punks should leave us alone because this is the 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.359 way it really should be and trying to make a 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.720 buck off that is wrong. Yeah. So if you think 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:26.960 of it, uh, an open system is sort of democratic 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.440 and that anyone can really contribute to it and and 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.920 change it. And also we should point out before we 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.799 really get into this debate, uh, that it is possible 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:40.200 to have a a product probably that's for sale, either 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.599 that's an open system or a closed system. Open and 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.560 closed does not mean that one is free and one 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.200 is is you charge for Yeah, I was I I did. Yeah, 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.080 that's a good point. I should have pointed out that 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.960 sort of the quote unquote ideal version when when a 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.200 lot of people talk about open source, right, if you're 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.359 going the ultimate open source, like the utopian version of 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:03.880 open source, when you're talking about that's cool, that's cool, Yeah, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:05.600 because there there really is a spectrum here. But we're 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.159 gonna try and be like hardcore. So mal, let me 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.800 explain why I think that closed systems are superior to 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:17.080 open systems. So with a closed system and with with 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.560 with with everything coming from a single source. So in 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.480 this case, let's say it's a company. A company is 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.640 creating a product that is closed off, no other outside 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.000 influence can can come into this product. It means that 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.440 there's an expectation of quality control that you don't have 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.440 with open systems. You actually can test everything, make sure 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.520 everything works properly on the hardware. So if we're talking 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.280 about a computer, we know that the software will work 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.000 on the computer because the software and hardware have been 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:49.479 developed together from the ground up. It means that you 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.720 don't have to worry about some weird incompatibility issue when 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:58.280 you try and install a program onto this device, because 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.719 again everything is coming from the same source and was 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.080 made to work together. Now this can go beyond just 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.640 a computer. Let's say that you have a computer and 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.960 a smartphone and a tablet and they're all part of 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.160 the same closed system. It means that you can expect 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:17.400 a fairly uniform experience across these three platforms, and maybe 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.520 even be able to port your experience from one to 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.440 the other. And what I mean by that is, let's 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.520 say I'm watching a movie on my smartphone and then 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.240 I decide, you know what, I really want to look 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.000 at this on a bigger screen, and I tap it 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.520 over to my tablet, and the tablet starts playing the 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.119 movie exactly where I left off, and it all works 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:37.279 seamlessly because it's all running on the same platform that's 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.799 meant to work together. That is one of the big 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.359 benefits of a closed system is that you have a 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:47.480 uniformity in the experience and an expectation of things are 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.640 just gonna work because it was all built together and 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:56.919 meant to work together. Why are you taking away my choice? 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.640 If I want to have a different video card than 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.880 the one you stuck in my computer, I want to 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:06.960 be able to remove it and stick a different one 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.240 in there, you know what. And it's and it's frustrating 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.520 because any time I want to change a component on 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.960 my computer or I want something a little different, UH, 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.760 you know, I have to deal with all the complications 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.760 that you're closed off. UH system is is taking away 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:29.000 And the problem is that, UH, you're also restricting competition 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.480 because in your closed system, there's only one way to 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.240 go for a tablet, and there's one way to go 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:35.840 for an MP three player, and there's one way to 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:37.400 go for a smartphone. There's one way to go for 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.000 a computer. And I want I want choice. I want 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.960 to be able to customize my my computing experience. I 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.400 want to be able to buy something cheaper because competition 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.760 is driving down the cost of these products. So I 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.200 could go to your store and buy the one computer 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.160 you've got, or I could go to this store over 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.600 here and buy fifty different computers, and all of them 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.120 are cheaper than yours, and some of them even outperform yours. Well, 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:03.800 So what do you say to that? Here's what I 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:05.680 say to that. Sure, it might be cheaper, and even 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.360 if you have a device, a particular individual device that 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.680 performs better than one of my particular individual devices. If 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:15.560 you are trying to have an experience that spans multiple devices, 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.000 then you're going to start encountering things where the compatibility 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:23.320 issues come into play, and you may have things like 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.680 software crashes because it's not designed to work together seamlessly 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.920 like a closed system is. So you might spend less 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:35.120 money initially when you first purchase your vast array of 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.920 choice here and you've got let you know, your ultimate 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:40.400 price tag is lower than you would if you have 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:45.120 bought everything from my superior closed system store. But the 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.360 amount of frustration you're going to have as that experience 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.920 is unsatisfactory because the various pieces are not playing together 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:58.000 properly is far going to outweigh the miniscule additional investment 0:08:58.040 --> 0:08:59.440 you would have to make if you had purchased it 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.240 all from me in the first place. And yeah, you're 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.640 one individual device might behave better or perform better than 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.240 why one individual device, but collectively, the experience is much 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.880 more satisfying on my end than it is on yours, 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.920 because it's yours is piecemeal, and also my system is 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.800 designed to just work. Your system is designed to make 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.440 me have to have a computer science degree if I 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.360 want to figure out how to do the same thing 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:31.319 on one device as I'm doing on another device. Ha superior, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.680 You say, yes, I don't think that word means what 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.160 you think. Well, here, let me put it to you 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.960 another way. Let's let's let's take a look at the 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.200 way a closed system versus an open system attacks the 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:47.760 problem of malware, because they have very different approaches. Right, So, 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:52.320 if we're talking about the perfect closed system, ideally there's 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.800 no malware because nothing from outside is being introduced into 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:59.920 the system unless there's some you know, disgruntled employee that 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.240 I bullied out of out of their sanity. We don't 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.720 have to worry about malware entering into the closed system 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.560 because everything is made by this one entity and it's 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:11.200 all made to work together, so you don't have to 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:15.600 worry about some sort of virus perpetuating itself through your system. 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:22.199 Now that's different from the way open systems attack malware. Well, 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.400 see the open systems, you could have other people, multiple 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.640 people working on solutions to things like vulnerabilities in the 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:34.600 operating system, and people who are working on uh anti 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:38.760 malware software for your system. So the thing is, that's 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.920 a small price to pay for the ability to hack 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.840 into the system and change whatever you want to change 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.360 about the system. If you want to, uh, get into 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.200 the operating system and see what makes it tick and 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:56.560 learn more about what what programs and what functions are 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.080 going on in the background. For example, you could be 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.960 monitoring everything I do, but if you're in your closed system, 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.640 I can't get into the background to see that. Then 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.080 you know you could be doing this all without my knowledge. 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.280 Um So with an open system, I I'm free to 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.680 install any software I want to or remove any software 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.560 I want to from my device. And I could even 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.120 write my own because you know it's open, and uh, 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.199 it gives me the opportunity to to hack in and 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.240 play with it and make it my own instead of 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.280 make it what your vision is. Because what if your 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:31.640 closed vision, you're closed off, walled off, little garden isn't 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.040 what I think of as being the best experience for me, 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.199 because hey, everybody's an individual, right Well. First of all, 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.360 we know what you want, even when you don't see 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.440 That's the thing is, we know what you want. You 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.760 don't know what you want, but we know what you want. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.199 You think you know what you want, but until you've 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:52.160 actually bought into our our closed system, you really haven't 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.560 haven't experienced it, And we're going to go back into 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.760 the quality issue. Let's talk about the quality of and 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.520 we're talking about computing systems here. Let's talk about the 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:07.160 quality of the programs that you're running on your system. Again, 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.439 with the closed system approach, those programs have been built 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.680 for a very specific set of hardware, which does not 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.400 change from what you know that if I buy my 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.400 computer from this closed system and someone else buys their 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.280 computer from the same closed system, those two computers are 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.200 going to be identical in every meaningful way, So we 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.920 know that the software is going to work equally well 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.560 on my system as it is on their system. Whereas 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.440 if we both just go into a computer store and 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.719 we each just buy a computer from various you know, manufacturers, 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.640 there's no guarantee that the same kind of software is 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.679 going to work just as well in my machine as 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:43.800 it is on their machine, even if the two machines 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.840 are running the same operating system, because we have difficulties 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:51.800 introduced by things like device drivers and hardware differences. With 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.360 the closed system, you've eliminated that you don't have to 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.200 worry about that so much. So that means that the 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:01.000 quality of the experience of the software. Put aside the 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.360 quality of the software itself, but the experience of using 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:08.280 it is going to be less frustrating. Uh the you know, 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.040 you might say that there's a downside with the whole 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.640 choice factor, but at the same time, you don't have 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.320 to worry about it crashing all the time or just 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.840 not behaving the proper way. I think. Sure, sometimes things happen, 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.800 but on a much less frequent basis than on these 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.480 these little open systems out there that that just well, 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.640 I don't know, they they they just they just are 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:35.520 like every anything goes well with the potential of with 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.960 with open source software, you have to potential a limitless 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.719 potential of applications that could be run for it. The 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.440 more open you become, the greater the possibilities. Um. You know. 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.199 So you can have your closed system and have things 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.439 that run specifically on that hardware. But you know, programmers 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.120 like their choices too, and they're gonna go where where 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.240 the wealth of soft where it is, and that's when 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.079 you attract more users, and vice versa and versa visa. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.959 And I disagree with that because users, most users don't 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.640 want to be curators. And if you are a user 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:14.800 of an open system, you have to be a curator 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.280 because there's so much that you're talking about, so much 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:21.440 variety and so much choice, that it's overwhelming to the 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.080 average user. You sit down and you see like there's 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.520 it's like walking into a library and you have no 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.240 idea what book you want to read. You just know 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.120 you want to read a book, and you walk into 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.960 an enormous library and you have no idea where to go. 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.960 It's too confusing. Whereas in a closed system, it's been 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.200 curated for you. Your choices are limited, but at the 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:43.840 same time, you don't have to worry about going through 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.640 eight thousand different word processing programs in order to find 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.400 one that suits your needs. There's really only one choice, 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.640 and if it suits your needs, that's awesome. Jonathan, you ignorance. 0:14:56.040 --> 0:15:01.520 Ha ha oh Saturday night Life. I bet you they 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.840 cut that. Um anyhow, uh well, see, there's one thing 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.640 that that you're leaving out here, the market, because what 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.360 happens here is the market helps people whittle down their choices. 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.960 When you have something the the word processor of choice, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.720 the one that that more people are using than people understand, 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.400 it's the best seller phenomenon it's like you look at 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.280 the best seller lists and you and you say, you 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.200 know what, these books are very popular. I bet you 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.680 anything that if I if I read it, I'm you know, 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:33.920 I will at least look at these first because I 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.360 know lots of people like them, and that helps people 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.600 make choices as far as software is concerned, and you know, 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.440 there's always a new programmer coming online to develop new 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:47.400 software and you can always help be the kingmaker for 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.160 the next generation of software too. But not in the 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.080 closed system where you know your choices are somewhat limited. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:55.840 I don't know. I'm trying to think of a best 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:00.280 selling open source software example, and it's really hard. Well, 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.680 you know, in a lot of cases, open source software 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.480 can be free or donationware, and a donationware world, people 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.200 pay what they what it's worth to them. And sure 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.000 some people are going to pay a quarter, and there 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.880 are also people who pay a hundred dollars for the 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.080 same piece of software because it means more to them 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.120 and it's important to them to donate to the community. 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.800 I mean, you know, not found that out? How did 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:30.280 how did Minecraft? Just you know, it's it's a thing. Yeah, 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.240 but I still think that the closed system is the 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.720 way to go. It's a sustainable business model. It means 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:40.000 that you once you develop your your your line of devotees, 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.600 you're good to go. I mean because you you've created 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.520 that expectation of that quality of experience that you deliver 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:51.760 upon consistently, and by doing that, you know that you know, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.880 as long as you maintain that level of quality, that 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.800 you will have a customer base moving forward. Whereas with 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.000 this open source roach, I don't see how you're gonna be, 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.160 you know, really making a sustainable business out of that. 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:09.080 And while the ideals are wonderful and fantastic and and 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:13.280 and and and happy and all that mess um, I 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.840 just don't see it, you know, perpetuating itself after a 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:20.680 certain amount. You know, eventually a guy's got to eat well. 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.760 And and that's why I think, uh, that's why I 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.800 think openness is sort of a bell curve. Yeah, because 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.520 the one end you have the clothe the the completely 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.040 closed off system with fewer fewer users, which you know, 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.360 we should point out again there's not really that many. 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.119 I can't think of any company that would be that 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.399 I could point to that say absolutely is this like 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:45.879 even the systems that we think of as closed like 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:50.320 Apple and Nintendo aren't really that closed. Otherwise no third 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.520 party developer would ever be able to create anything for 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:56.280 their platforms. Right. And then at the other side, UM, 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:00.240 I'm trying to think of somebody who is really completely 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.520 open as far as open source. But that's as close 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:06.720 as you can get. Yeah. And the thing is, as 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:12.200 Jonathan pointed out earlier, UM, Lennox is free and it's 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.800 you know, the sources open, which is in the guts 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.360 of the operating system are open for people to use. 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.800 And there are distributions of Linux that are completely free 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.600 for people to use, and there are others that. Uh. 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.560 There is a purchase price because it is tailored two 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.399 specific needs and usually has some support level of support 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.399 built into that. So if you buy the software, then 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.520 you can expect to have someone to call if you've 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.040 got a problem. Yeah. Sometimes it's not the software itself 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.840 that's that's got the price tag. It's the support. Yeah. 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.199 So for example, Buntu is that way you can you 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.680 can get a free version of a Buntu and install 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.400 it on your computer. By the way, the debate part 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.679 of this podcast is over In case you hadn't realized 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.640 that We're now getting into the more informational side. Um. Yeah, 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.159 the the and I think that went really well. The 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.080 but Abuntu, you you can get that for free and 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.960 install that on a machine for free. But if you 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.480 want to have professional level support, then you can pay 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:06.640 a certain amount of money and then you will have 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:12.040 access to UM support staff, which could be anything from 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.679 my computer isn't behaving properly, what is the what is 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.520 the source of this problem? How do I fix it too? 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:22.120 I'm running an actual closed network of machines in this 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.080 one business, and I need to know how to set 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.639 this up so that everything is secure that kind of 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.359 it's it's all levels of support. Uh. And and you know, 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.600 there are definitely arguments both for and against the closed 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.640 and open systems, as we were demonstrating earlier. And it's 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.280 not that one system is inherently better or worse than 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:44.200 the other. They're just different philosophies on how to provide 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.719 UM goods and services. Yeah. Really there the arguments we 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.360 were making. I think, um, you know, there were good 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.960 arguments on both sides. I think the it works better. 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:58.000 There are arguments I've heard sort of like the ones 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.919 the debate we just had that we're are more heated 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.879 than that. You thin get the when you're actually thinking 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.439 about both sides and not taking a side, it it 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.800 kind of works better because really there are some benefits 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.800 with with clothes, you do have things that just work, um, 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:14.720 But with open you do have a lot more choice 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.479 and the ability to tinker more with it. And it's 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:18.800 sort of really, I think depends on what you're looking for. 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:21.960 So this is why so many people use Windows because 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.320 it's sort of an open closed system. Windows is Windows 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.600 the sort of the middle ground. Uh, it's it's it 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.240 leans closed. Yeah, it lands closed, but it has a 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.840 lot of flexibility for people to build applications that run 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.199 on Windows. So in that that sense, it's open in 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.879 the in the way that you know, again, third party 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.159 developers create the vast majority of software that runs on 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:48.000 Windows based PCs. You know, very a small percentage of 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.119 the software that runs on Windows based PCs comes from Microsoft. 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.240 There there's there are very important applications that are on 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.359 a typical Windows based PC that are from Microsoft. But 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.320 you know, if you're like, if you're going to some 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.040 video gamers house and you're looking at his rig and 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.240 or her rig, I should say because you know, I've 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:11.320 met some lead female video gamers who could wipe the 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.399 floor with me in any game I've shows, which is 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:18.040 very they're staring at you now as a matter of fact. Yeah, 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:19.760 well I'll probably end up seeing some of them at 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.639 c E s uh, and they'll again I won't challenge 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.120 them that I already know how I would turn out anyway. 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:27.879 So you but you go on, you look at the 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.119 software on that person's computer, and you're gonna see that 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.560 there's a ton of stuff on there that never came 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.240 out of Microsoft. Uh. And same, the same sort of 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.120 thing applies to Apple. It's not there. It's not as 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.520 much software as far as just you know, sheer numbers 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.000 as you would find for a Windows based PC. But 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:46.879 you know, even Apple, which we think of as a 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:50.440