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Speaker 4: Hey Daniel, do you ever get caught using a word

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Speaker 4: that you don't really understand? Do you actually always know

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Speaker 4: what you're talking about?

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Speaker 1: I don't think I'm willing to divulte that here on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, So maybe we can have that conversation over

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Speaker 1: a beer. Sometimes but the thing that I love is

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Speaker 1: that there are some topics in physics, some idea, some

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Speaker 1: words that I'm pretty sure nobody actually really understands.

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Speaker 4: I feel like this is taking us to another episode

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Speaker 4: about quantum physics.

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Speaker 1: That's right and wrong at the same time.

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Speaker 4: No, I mean yes, exactly both of them at the

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Speaker 4: same time.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 4: I'm Jorge. I'm a cartoonist and the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist.

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Speaker 4: And welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe,

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Speaker 4: a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we take crazy and fascinating and amazing and

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Speaker 1: hot and wet and nasty things about the universe and

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Speaker 1: try to explain them to you. Today's episode is dedicated

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Speaker 1: to Ilana, whose boyfriend Nick is a local fan of

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Speaker 1: the podcast here in Irvine. Happy birthday, Elana. Today's topic

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Speaker 1: is a really fun one, and in preparation for it,

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Speaker 1: not only did I go and do the normal street

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Speaker 1: interviews I usually do with random people, but I actually

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Speaker 1: went around the halls of my physics department and I

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Speaker 1: asked a bunch of grad students if they could explain

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Speaker 1: today's topic for me and they found it pretty tough.

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Speaker 4: Wow, that's a pretty interesting spin on the topic. That's

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Speaker 4: on our process.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's.

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Speaker 4: Right to be on the podcast, We're going to be

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Speaker 4: talking about quantum spin exactly.

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Speaker 1: Quantum spin? What is it? What does it mean? Are

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Speaker 1: things actually spinning? Why is it quantum? We got a

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Speaker 1: lot of people sending in requests to talk about this topic,

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Speaker 1: and I think when people are interested in physics and

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Speaker 1: digging around in videos on the internet and listening to podcasts,

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Speaker 1: you hear this come up a lot. It comes up

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Speaker 1: in quantum entanglement, it's in science fiction everywhere, and of

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Speaker 1: course people want to know what does it mean, what's

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Speaker 1: going on? Why is it so important?

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Speaker 4: That's right? What is spin? How fast is it spinning?

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Speaker 4: What's the spin on it?

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Speaker 1: Exactly?

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Speaker 4: Is it spinning out of control?

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Speaker 1: That's right? Is it different from political spin? It's definitely

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Speaker 1: a thing, right, It's something fascinating.

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Speaker 4: And more importantly, if you're an expert in this field,

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Speaker 4: does that make you a spin doctor.

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Speaker 1: Doctor of spin? Yes, exactly. You know, we have sort

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Speaker 1: of a bad track record in physics of naming things,

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Speaker 1: naming things using familiar words like we give quarks flavors, right,

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Speaker 1: The upcork and the charm cork and the topquark are

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Speaker 1: different flavors of quarks.

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Speaker 4: Colors right, and colors right when they don't really have color.

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Speaker 1: They don't really have color, and they don't really taste different.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I've never actually tasted a

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Speaker 1: top quark, So there you go. I'm speaking on something

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Speaker 1: I don't really understand, but we don't mean it in

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Speaker 1: that way. So sometimes we're like adopting existing words and

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Speaker 1: just using them totally inappropriately. Other times we're trying to

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Speaker 1: use words that are similar to some other concepts because

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Speaker 1: specifically because we want to call up structures and ideas

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Speaker 1: from those concepts. Like color is actually a pretty cool one,

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Speaker 1: because while the particles are not colored, there's something about

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Speaker 1: quantum color which is similar to color, and so we

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Speaker 1: want to express that.

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Speaker 4: You're sort of trying to grab onto an intuitive idea,

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Speaker 4: even if you're trying to like a reference, You're trying

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Speaker 4: to reference that an intuitive idea in our everyday experience

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Speaker 4: and kind of latch that onto a physics concept exactly.

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Speaker 1: And we do that all the time, right, That's basically

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Speaker 1: what physics is is try to explain the unknown in

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Speaker 1: terms of the known, right, Like when we try to

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Speaker 1: talk about particles. We're doing that all the time. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're saying, oh, it's a particle, No, it's a wave. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's really neither, and it's both, and it's something else

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Speaker 1: more complicated, and we're just trying to patch together a

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Speaker 1: description of using ideas in your head, right, we weave

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Speaker 1: these together into some sort of understanding.

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Speaker 4: Here's such a suggestion for you guys. Maybe you should

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Speaker 4: just instead of calling being bold and calling it like

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Speaker 4: colors or flavors, just add the word like at the

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Speaker 4: beginning in your official definition.

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Speaker 1: So the announcement should be like, like we're calling this color,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, no, I just.

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Speaker 4: Call it like a quantum like color. It's like color.

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Speaker 1: I see it has a color like property or a

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Speaker 1: spin like property.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, labor or you know. I mean, if you want

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Speaker 4: to get mathematically, just put a little tilda in the front, right,

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Speaker 4: and then nobody.

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Speaker 1: Would be confused. Yeah, I like that idea a lot.

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Speaker 4: O good. You like it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally like it, And I think I hope

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Speaker 1: on Twitter it gets a lot of.

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Speaker 4: Likes there you go. I think I want to do something.

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Speaker 1: I think you're something. I think you should be nominated

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Speaker 1: onto the secret International Physics Naming Committee. I don't know

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Speaker 1: where it meets, or when it meets, or who's in

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Speaker 1: charge of it, but they've may been making some dubious

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Speaker 1: decisions recently and they need some fresh blood.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think if I was in charge, I would

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Speaker 4: just put the tiled in front of physics itself. You know,

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Speaker 4: what do you study till the physics?

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Speaker 1: What does that mean?

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Speaker 4: Like physics?

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Speaker 1: I'm studying something like physics, but it's not actually physics.

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Speaker 4: I mean, isn't everything like physics philosophically?

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Speaker 1: Pretty? Next thing, you're going to be calling me like

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Speaker 1: a physicist, not actually a physicist, but something like approximating

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Speaker 1: a physicist. You know you're going to spread this.

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Speaker 4: Area, Tilda, Daniel, you're sort of like a Daniel. Intuitively,

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Speaker 4: you're a Daniel.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm actually a Daniel. I'm the definition of me.

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Speaker 4: Right, See, you're Daniel sub zero exactly.

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Speaker 1: I'm not like me. I am me right you are,

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Speaker 1: damn I think therefore I am Daniel.

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Speaker 4: Well, anyways, before we spin out of control here on

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Speaker 4: this side conversation, we're talking about quantum spin and so

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Speaker 4: it plays a big deal in quantum physics, in quantum entanglement, right,

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Speaker 4: and atomic orbitals. I mean it's sort of it's important

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Speaker 4: in everybody's atoms, which are kind of important to people.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I like my atoms, you know, they're not

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Speaker 1: like atoms. I just like them. But exactly, spin is everywhere,

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Speaker 1: and you hear come up, and especially when you're hearing

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Speaker 1: explanations of quantum entanglement or quantum computing or orbitals and

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, you hear about it. And when

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Speaker 1: I was a student and I was learning about quantum spin,

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, but what is it like? Are

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Speaker 1: these things actually spinning? Why do we call it spin? Right?

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Speaker 1: How could a particle spin? And so let's dig into

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Speaker 1: all that well.

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Speaker 4: As usual, Daniel went out there and asked people on

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Speaker 4: the street if they knew what quantum spin was. And

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Speaker 4: you actually have kind of an interesting spin to it

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Speaker 4: this time, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I went out and I asked people on the UC

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Speaker 1: Irvine campus and then a few other folks at the

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Speaker 1: an Irvine mall what they thought quantum spin was, if

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Speaker 1: they could describe it, and if they did understand quantum spin.

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Speaker 1: I also asked them. Are these particles actually spinning or

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Speaker 1: is that just like spin? Is that just like a

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Speaker 1: word we use.

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Speaker 4: Well, here's what people had to say, so energy, I

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Speaker 4: just think of energy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yes, what's quantum spin?

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Speaker 4: Like quantum spin as an like spin up spin down

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Speaker 4: within molecular orbitals and electrons.

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Speaker 1: So are those particles like actually spinning? Yes, no, I

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Speaker 1: haven't quantum spin?

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Speaker 5: No, no, yeah, it's electron spin that it can be

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Speaker 5: positive or negative.

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Speaker 1: And then how's it different from normal spin? Like a

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Speaker 1: tennis ball can spin? Is electronic spin the same thing?

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Speaker 1: Are they physically spinning? I'm not sure.

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Speaker 5: I know some stuff about Polly's principle that the spin

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Speaker 5: should be in a specific way and they're prepared so

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Speaker 5: I know some way intos junct stuff, but I'm not

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Speaker 5: sure about that right.

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Speaker 6: Cool, Yeah, isn't because every electron has a different type

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Speaker 6: of spin. It's like either a plus one half of

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Speaker 6: a minus one. I forgot what it would but yeah.

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Speaker 1: And are they like actually spinning. Is it like the

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Speaker 1: same thing as a tennis ball spinning? Or is it

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Speaker 1: a no?

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Speaker 6: Because it's not like because you can't treat it like

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Speaker 6: it's a particle. Right, because it's like an electron is

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Speaker 6: a mix of a particle and a way.

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Speaker 1: I've heard of it, but I'm not familiar with the meeting. Okay, No,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. All right. Yes, there's

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Speaker 1: up and down spin right, and it's in the well.

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Speaker 4: I don't know much more than that, Okay, all right.

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Speaker 4: It seemed very binary. Some people had no idea, never

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Speaker 4: even heard of it, and some people had a lot

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Speaker 4: to say about this topic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and some people knew some stuff sort of in

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Speaker 1: the vicinity of the topic, but not actually like relevant

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Speaker 1: to the question.

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Speaker 4: Of the vicinity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I Like when I asked somebody a

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Speaker 1: question and I can tell they haven't thought about this

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Speaker 1: in a long time, and they have sort of like

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Speaker 1: a free association going off in their mind. They're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: this is connected to that idea, to that idea, that idea,

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Speaker 1: and then they go, no, actually, I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer. That's really fun when you can

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Speaker 1: see their process.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because a lot of people be heard about it

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Speaker 4: or read about it a long time ago, maybe in

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Speaker 4: high school of physics or something, and so you ort

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Speaker 4: to feel like it's in there in your brain. You

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Speaker 4: just need some time to you know, boot up the

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Speaker 4: hard drives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But I think my favorite part of this

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Speaker 1: experience asking people these questions was that one gentleman after

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Speaker 1: I asked him if you knew about quantum spin, he

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Speaker 1: then asked me, He said, is this something you need

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Speaker 1: for your dissertation? He said, yes, yes, sir, Yes, sir.

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Speaker 1: I am a twenty five year old graduate student. Absolutely.

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Speaker 4: Wait are you saying that you can't be a grad

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Speaker 4: student at forty something?

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Speaker 1: Oh, there are fewer of them. Yes, there are fewer

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Speaker 1: forty something year old grad students. But I have to

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Speaker 1: say the ones that are forty years old, like folks

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Speaker 1: that went out into the real world and worked in

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Speaker 1: real estate or law or something and then came back

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Speaker 1: to do physics grad school, they're really good students. They

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Speaker 1: really want it. Yeah, it takes it's a lot of

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Speaker 1: work to divert from a path in the real world

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Speaker 1: back into academia. It's much harder than just like going

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Speaker 1: from undergrad to grad school. So I really respect that.

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Speaker 1: You know, you got to really want it.

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Speaker 4: Oh cool. So if there are any is there any

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Speaker 4: listeners out there who want to change careers and get

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Speaker 4: a PhD. They should contact you right and you have

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Speaker 4: a spot for them.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure I just offered anybody funding, but I

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Speaker 1: would encourage you. If you have a deep passion for

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Speaker 1: physics and you're finding yourself in a dead end job

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Speaker 1: and you wish you had gone to physics grad school

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Speaker 1: to unravel mister of the universe, I encourage you, sir

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Speaker 1: and ma'am.

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Speaker 4: If you'd like to be in another dead end of

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Speaker 4: awesome knowledge, then be a cartoonist. Is that what you're

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Speaker 4: gonna say? Yes? Yes, all right, So Daniel, let's break

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Speaker 4: it down for people. What is quantum spin?

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Speaker 1: We don't know? Done podcast over.

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Speaker 4: That's why we had to be divers so much. Just

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Speaker 4: fill in the airtime so people don't know because just

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Speaker 4: don't know what quantum spin is.

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Speaker 1: We don't really know what it is. Now we know

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Speaker 1: it's a thing, right, So there's this thing, this property

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Speaker 1: of particles. We don't really understand what it is, what

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Speaker 1: it's doing. But there's this thing we've observed and we

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Speaker 1: call it quantum spin. So let's do it that way.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about what this thing is that we can observe,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll talk about why we call it quantum

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Speaker 1: spin and you know whether it's actually spinning and stuff.

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Speaker 4: All Right, Well, what's the origin of this? How did

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Speaker 4: this come to be a thing?

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Speaker 1: And well, it came to be a thing basically because

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Speaker 1: of right, and you remember that charged particles. So a

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Speaker 1: little particle with a charge on it, like an electron,

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Speaker 1: if you move it in a circle, right, like through

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Speaker 1: a wire loop or something, then it makes a magnetic field. Right,

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Speaker 1: you can turn it on and off like electromagnets.

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Speaker 4: This is how they work, right, like motors everyday electric motors,

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Speaker 4: motors in your car and in your electric car, in

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Speaker 4: your even in your phone. Right, there's probably a little

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Speaker 4: motor solenoid doing the vibrations when you put it on,

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Speaker 4: vibrating more. That's the principle. Like they just pump electrons

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Speaker 4: through a coil, a little loop, and then that creates

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Speaker 4: a magnetic field, which moves something.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And the cool thing there is you have

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Speaker 1: a magnet you can control electronically or digitally. So that's

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Speaker 1: pretty awesome. But the important concept there is that things

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Speaker 1: moving in a circle. Charges moving in a circle give

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Speaker 1: you a magnetic field. Right, So that's something we know about, right,

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Speaker 1: Something we understand. And so then people were asking the question, well,

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Speaker 1: do electrons themselves like individual part of do they have

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Speaker 1: little magnets on them? Like not just moving in a circle,

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Speaker 1: but is there a magnetic field just due to the particle?

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Speaker 1: And this is the kind of thing physicists do. They're like, well,

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Speaker 1: we don't expect this to be this way, but let's

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Speaker 1: just check, right, let's see if this happens.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, because back then maybe they thought particles were

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Speaker 4: like little little balls, right maybe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well they didn't know, right, this is in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, this is almost one hundred years ago. The

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Speaker 1: whole idea of a particle was still pretty new. People

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Speaker 1: who discovered electrons and neutrons and you know, it was

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Speaker 1: a crazy era of discovery.

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Speaker 4: They were maybe asking, like, is one electron maybe like

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Speaker 4: a magnet itself?

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly right, And that's what they were wondering about.

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Speaker 4: And so if it's a magnet, it would have a direction, right,

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Speaker 4: like a field.

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Speaker 1: Exactly would it have its own little magnetic field? So

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Speaker 1: that was the question they were trying to answer, like

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Speaker 1: does an electron or a silver atom or whatever, a

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Speaker 1: little particle have its own magnetic field. So what they

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Speaker 1: did is they built this device that would that Basically,

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Speaker 1: they put particles in this device, and the device has

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Speaker 1: a magnetic field on it, and they moved the particle

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Speaker 1: through the device, not in a circle, just in a

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Speaker 1: straight line. And the idea is that the device has

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Speaker 1: magnets in it, So if the particles have their own

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Speaker 1: magnetic field, then they'll get pushed to one side because

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Speaker 1: the magnets and the particle would interact with the magnets

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Speaker 1: from this device and would push the particles to one

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Speaker 1: side or the other.

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Speaker 4: Kind of like if you not through an electron, but

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Speaker 4: if you through like an actual magnet, like a fridge magnet,

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Speaker 4: if you threw it at some other magnets, it would

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Speaker 4: get deflected, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it would get deflected. Now, most magnets are balanced, right,

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Speaker 1: Most magnets have a north and a south. So say

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Speaker 1: you set up like a really strong pair of magnets

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Speaker 1: and then you threw a fridge magnet through, it probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't get deflected because it has a north in the

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Speaker 1: south and so the poles would get balanced. So what

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Speaker 1: they did was they set up one really big magnet

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Speaker 1: and then a weaker magnet on the other side. So

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Speaker 1: there's like an uneven magnetic field through it, so that

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Speaker 1: if your fridge magnet goes through it, depending on the

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Speaker 1: angle of the magnet, depending on the angle of the

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Speaker 1: north and the south, it'll get pulled in one direction

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Speaker 1: or the other. Okay, So they built the particle version

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Speaker 1: of this, right, They an uneven magnetic field and they

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Speaker 1: shot some particles through it, and what they found was

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Speaker 1: really surprising, Right, it was really shocking what they discovered.

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Speaker 4: They found that particles do have magnetic fields.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, first of all, they found two things that

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Speaker 1: were surprising. One, particles do have their own little magnetic fields.

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Speaker 1: I mean, first they did it with silver atoms, which

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Speaker 1: is sort of the easiest thing they could do to

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Speaker 1: make a beam. Then this is a long time ago

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Speaker 1: before you could easily make like a beam of particles.

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Speaker 1: They just put a bunch of silver in an oven

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Speaker 1: and like some of it boiled off and they collimated

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Speaker 1: it and got a beam of silver atoms. And then

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Speaker 1: later they did the same thing with electrons, and they

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Speaker 1: found that these things have their own little magnets, Like

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Speaker 1: an electron is a magnet, which is kind of perplexing,

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Speaker 1: Like what does that mean, like, where does this magnet

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Speaker 1: come from?

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Speaker 4: Right? But what does it mean that it's a magnet?

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Speaker 4: Like if I just look at an electron, it has

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Speaker 4: like a north and south pole to it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Electrons have their own little magnetic fields, even

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Speaker 1: when they're not moving in a circle.

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Speaker 4: Even if they're not moving at all, Like you spend

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Speaker 4: that in electron? Can you can you do it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, exactly. If you have an electron just floating

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Speaker 1: motionless in mid air, it will have its own little magnet. Hmmm.

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Speaker 4: And that's really weird to us now, right, because we

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Speaker 4: know that part electrons and particles, they're not like little

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Speaker 4: balls or just points.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, and so the question of where does that

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Speaker 1: magnet come from? That's where this whole idea of spin

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Speaker 1: came from. But the other really weird thing they found

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Speaker 1: was that the magnets didn't point in every direction, Like

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Speaker 1: if you just throw a bunch of magnets through this device,

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Speaker 1: if they're all pointed in different directions, right, is just

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Speaker 1: randomly oriented, you'd expect them to get deflected in random directions.

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Speaker 1: This one goes left, this one goes right, this one

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Speaker 1: goes a little bit up, this one goes a little

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Speaker 1: bit down. But you know, if they're randomly organized, they

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Speaker 1: should go in all sorts of directions, right, m hm.

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Speaker 1: But what they found was that they either went left

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Speaker 1: or they went right. There was nothing in between, like

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Speaker 1: it's either left or right and nothing else, like those

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Speaker 1: are your two options.

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Speaker 4: Really, and no variations and how much right or how

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Speaker 4: much left?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they all went exactly the same amount left or

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Speaker 1: this exactly the same amount right? What yeah, exactly. And

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Speaker 1: that's why we call it quantum. Right, they have this

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Speaker 1: little quantum magnetic field. The amazing thing is that, say,

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Speaker 1: then you rotate the device. You're like, okay, rotated ninety degrees.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you were measuring it on the x axis. Now

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Speaker 1: you're measuring on the y axis, right, so you're imagining, okay,

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Speaker 1: well maybe these particles just you know, were somehow weirdly

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Speaker 1: oriented along the x axis, so they either go left

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Speaker 1: or right. So then rotate your device ninety degrees. Then

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Speaker 1: all the particles either move up or down right. No

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Speaker 1: matter how you orient the device, the particles either go

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Speaker 1: along the magnet or against it.

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Speaker 4: Right, So it's not like a it's not like a

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Speaker 4: real magnetic field, right, It's something weirder.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a real magnetic field exactly. It's like

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Speaker 1: a magnetum. It's like a magnetic field. And that's that's

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Speaker 1: exactly where what they struggled with. They're like, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: has some property. Something is generating this magnet and it's

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Speaker 1: definitely quantum mechanical in some weird way because we have

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Speaker 1: all these weird properties. Like another weird thing about this

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Speaker 1: magnetic device is, say you send a bunch of electrons

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Speaker 1: through it, you split them left and right. Okay, then

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Speaker 1: you take the left beam, only the left beam, and

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Speaker 1: you split them through a device that's rotated ninety degrees

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Speaker 1: that goes up and down. Then they split up and

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Speaker 1: down right, even though beforehand they would only split left

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Speaker 1: and right.

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Speaker 4: Wait, what if you take the left beam, the that

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Speaker 4: the ones that went left. What if you try to

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Speaker 4: split them up again horizontally? Do they all go left again?

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Speaker 1: Yes? They do. But if you split them left right,

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Speaker 1: and you take the left beam, then you split them

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Speaker 1: up down, you take the upbeam, and then you try

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Speaker 1: to split it left and right again, then they mix.

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Speaker 1: They go both left and right. And that's why it's

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanical. Yeah, because you can't. You can't measure this

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Speaker 1: weird little quantum magnet that the electron has. You can't

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Speaker 1: measure it both in x and in y at the

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Speaker 1: same time. It's the old Heisenberg uncertainty principle. You can't

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Speaker 1: know too much information about the universe. So when you

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Speaker 1: measure it and up down, it mixes it up again

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Speaker 1: and left right, whoa.

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Speaker 4: It's like, oh, I see, you can measure the up

439
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 4: and down and the left and right at the same time.

440
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 4: It's like them. So you can't know a particle where

441
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 4: it is and where it's going at the same time.

442
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 4: The same thing applies to the magnet exactly.

443
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 1: And that's how we knew it was a quantum mechanical property. Right,

444
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: So we discover this weird thing about particles that they

445
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 1: have their own little magnets, and somehow this magnet is

446
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: quantum mechanical. And so they were like, what could this be?

447
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 4: Hmmm, all right, let's get into what it could be

448
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 4: and some of the weird things about that. But first

449
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 4: let's take a quick break.

450
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,280
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Speaker 4: Okay, I know. So people were measuring electrons and they

499
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 4: found that they have sort of like an inherent an

500
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 4: inherent magnet inside of electrons, and that it's quantum mechanical,

501
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 4: meaning that it's like really weird. You can measure up

502
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 4: and down and left and right. That's right, and so

503
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 4: people that's what people decide to call quantum spin. Yeah,

504
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 4: even though it's not really spinning, they just went for

505
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 4: that name.

506
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: That's right. They call it quantum spin. And so let's

507
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: try to figure out what do they mean by quantum spin?

508
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: What is why did they call it quantum spin? All right, Well,

509
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: quantum is pretty straightforward. It's definitely it's a property of

510
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: particles and it behaves like other quantum things that you

511
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: can't know too much about it at the same time, right,

512
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: you can't measure the x and the y direction of

513
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: at the same time. And also it's either up or down, right,

514
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: there's no in between, so it's quantized. So the quantum stuff,

515
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: all right, I buy it. Right, you should definitely call

516
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: this quantum something. If you're gonna call it quantum spin

517
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: or quantum banana, you know, that's another question. But it

518
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 1: should definitely have the quantum label.

519
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, I feel like maybe they should have called

520
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,239
Speaker 4: it quantum pole or something, you know, like something that

521
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 4: references that, because really you're trying, you're trying to capture

522
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 4: this kind of the magnetic the direction of the magnetic

523
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 4: field of the electron, right, which is kind of like

524
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 4: the pole.

525
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what they what they did is they thought

526
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: about what generates magnetic poles, right, what generates magnetic fields.

527
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: And we know that a particle moving in a circle, right,

528
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: like orbiting for example, will generate a magnetic field. So

529
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: then they thought, maybe the particle is spinning. Maybe it's

530
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: like physically spinning. And if you imagine an electron, like

531
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: it has charge on it. Some think about the surface

532
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: of the electron has like little bits of its charge

533
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: distribute across the surface. This is the image they had

534
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: back then, not the image that we use now. If

535
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: that was spinning, then you can imagine that the spinning

536
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: surface of the electron could be basically particles moving in

537
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: a circle, and that would generate a magnetic field. So

538
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: they were like, Aha, maybe we've discovered that electrons can spin.

539
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 4: Right mm, but why didn't they just call it like

540
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 4: quantum poles?

541
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: Weren't that because you were born one hundred years too late? Man?

542
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: I know that's what I'm saying totally. I'm officially nominating

543
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: you to be on the Secret Physics Naming Committee. I

544
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: think you're great at this.

545
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 4: I mean in the sense of people out there who

546
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 4: might be trying to understand is you know, I mean,

547
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 4: they're enough is they don't really care why they called

548
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 4: it a particular thing. But if they had called the

549
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 4: quantum the quantum magnetic pole or something like that, would

550
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 4: that still be accurate and also maybe be easier to understand.

551
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: I don't think it's accurate because it's describing the effect

552
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: and not the cause. Right. We think something is happening

553
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: which generates the magnetic field and these other properties. But

554
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: what we'd like to do is figure out what the

555
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: cause of it is like, what is the particle doing

556
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: that generates the magnetic field? Right, what is the source

557
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: of it? And does that give us insight into other stuff?

558
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: It turns out it does, right, If we like to

559
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: think about the particle as having this thing we call spin,

560
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: and we call it spin because it generates a magnetic field,

561
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: but also because the way the mathematics of the spin

562
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: is really similar to the mathematics of electrons in orbit.

563
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 4: M What do you mean it's similar?

564
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: Well, the like the mathematical language we use to like

565
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: to describe it is very very similar, right. And when

566
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: you see like some phenomenon A and you describe it mathematically,

567
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: and you see phenomenon B and you describe mathematically and

568
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: you notice, hey, look they're described by the same math,

569
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: then you have to wonder are they two sides of

570
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: the same coin or are they really the same thing?

571
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: And so people people thought, oh, look at all this

572
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: release relationships between quantum between this thing we call quantum

573
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: spin and orbital angular momentum, you know, the angular momentum

574
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 1: of something moving around in a circle. Then it's a

575
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: lot of connections there, but.

576
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 4: They turn out to be wrong, right. It's like I know,

577
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 4: I know you were trying to do, but you sort

578
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 4: of missed kind of well, yes and no.

579
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: Right, that's the frustrating thing about quantum mechanics. Like theoretically

580
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: it does work, physically it doesn't. So like theoretically it does,

581
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: it works in this beautiful, really deep way because what

582
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: we know, for example, is that angler momentum is conserved. Right,

583
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: Like momentum is this property of particles to keep going

584
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: in the direction they're going. Angler momentum is this property

585
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: of particles to keep spinning the way they were spinning, right,

586
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: And we know that angler momentum is conserved. If you

587
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: start something spinning, it's going to keep spinning until you

588
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: stop it. Now, what's conserved is total angler momentum, not

589
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: the anglementum of like one thing. So you spin a

590
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: top right, and you can stop it by touching it

591
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: against another top, which then takes its spin right. So

592
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: the total spin of those two tops is conserved. Well,

593
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: the fascinating thing is that while we don't know what

594
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: spin is, we know that orbital angler momentum and spin

595
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: are conserved together, like the sum of them is conserved.

596
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: So you can change the spin of some particle and

597
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: it will influence its angular momentum. Right, What you need

598
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: to conserve is the sum of those two things, which

599
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: tells you that spin really is like a kind of

600
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: angular momentum. Fundamentally, theoretically, these really are related things.

601
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 4: Like a particle has that kind of qu anglar momentum,

602
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 4: and so it's appropriate to call it spin.

603
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: Yes, it's some kind of intrinsic angular momentum, Like you

604
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: can transfer anglarmentum from orbital from the orbital kind to

605
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: the spin kind and back right, which tells you that

606
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: they really are two kinds of the same thing, that

607
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: in some way the division between them is just in

608
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: our minds. It's just mathematical.

609
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 4: Oh, I see, so you're saying it's some kind of spin.

610
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: It's some kind of a rotation. Yes, exactly like spin.

611
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: It's like spin exactly, and so it's really.

612
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 4: I got chayah, I gotcha. Yeah, you admit it on air,

613
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 4: that horrid channel was right. They should be called like spin.

614
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: It should be called like spin. I completely and totally

615
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,239
Speaker 1: agree with you. There you go.

616
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 4: But I guess the question is, like, so they decided

617
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 4: to call it spin because it's sort of like it

618
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 4: like real spin, But I guess the question is are

619
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 4: these particles actually spinning?

620
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: Right? And that's the fascinating part is that they can't.

621
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: I mean, particles are points, right, they have no volume.

622
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: We were talking earlier about the idea of a particle

623
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: with a surface and maybe bits of it on the

624
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: surface were spinning, like the surface was rotating and the

625
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: bits of charge removing in a circle to generate a

626
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: magnetic field. That's hogwash, like that can't happen because particles

627
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,239
Speaker 1: don't have a size, right. Electronics, as far as we know,

628
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: has zero size, Like the one side of it is

629
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: exactly the same place as the other side of it,

630
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: so there's nothing to spin. You can't turn around a point.

631
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: It has no direction. It's like a vector of zero length.

632
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 4: Like there's no distance between one end of the particle

633
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: and the other end of the particle for them to

634
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 4: be sort of moving at different in different directions, right,

635
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 4: exactly because it's a point particle.

636
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you spin the particle and it's exactly the same

637
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: as it was before, Right, there's no direction to it.

638
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 4: Right, But well, isn't it kind of maybe a philosophical question,

639
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 4: like maybe a particle a point can't spin? Who says,

640
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 4: a point can't spin. You just can't see it.

641
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: I just said it. That's not enough for you. I'm

642
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: only a like businessis.

643
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 4: You're liked, You're well liked, Daniel.

644
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: No, imagine imaginative vector right, imaginative vector right, which is

645
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: a length and a direction? Okay, right, that can spin? Right,

646
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: you can turn it ninety degrees or one hundred eighty

647
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: degrees or whatever, like an arrow. Right, like an arrow exactly.

648
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: But if an arrow has zero length, what direction is

649
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: it pointing in.

650
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 4: The one that I tell, the one that it decides

651
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 4: to have. Don't this quantum stuff.

652
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: No, it has no director, it has no length. It

653
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: can't have a direction, right, because the direction would imply

654
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: a length.

655
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 4: Right, But you're sort of telling me that it does

656
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 4: kind of have a direction, right, it kind of has

657
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 4: like spin.

658
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has some property. It can't spin physically, like,

659
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: it can't spin in the way that we would spin

660
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: a tennis ball. Right, It definitely cannot do that. Also,

661
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: these other problems, like if you imagine an electron, if

662
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: you say, well, we don't really know. Maybe an electron

663
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: does have a size, right, you haven't seen it, but

664
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: maybe it does. Well, you know if you say, we

665
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: know the size electron has to be less than like

666
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: ten to the minus twenty meters, because that's the most

667
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: best resolution we have we have on our biggest particle accelerators.

668
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: And then you calculate, like, well, how fast would the

669
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: service of the electron be spinning? Will it'll be fit

670
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: spinning faster than the speed of light. So it's definitely

671
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: not happening. These are not tiny, little actually spinning balls, right.

672
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: But this always happens when we try to describe something

673
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: quantum mechanical in terms of something that's not right. You

674
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: have the tennis ball or the baseball spinning in your head,

675
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: and you're trying to use that as a model, and

676
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: it works for a while until it doesn't. And it

677
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: doesn't work because this thing is not a tiny ball, right,

678
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: It's some weird thing and it has some weird property.

679
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: The amazing thing is this spin property is really similar

680
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: to this other thing we do understand, right.

681
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 4: I think maybe the problem is that you're saying that

682
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 4: like precision wise, like where its constituent matter is can't

683
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 4: rotate in space, right, that's right, But you're saying that

684
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 4: it has other properties other than position of its constituent

685
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 4: matter that do sort of have a preferred direction.

686
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. That's why we call it intrinsic spin because

687
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: it has some property which is very similar mathematically to spin,

688
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: but we know it's not actually spinning. So like intrinsic

689
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: is like is the physics version of like right, because well,

690
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: it's intrinsic spin. It's like some kind of spin.

691
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 4: Right, So you're saying that that it's a point, but

692
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 4: it is kind of spinning.

693
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: Saying it's a point and it has some weird property

694
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: which is related to physical spin but is not, but

695
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 1: mathematically it's kind of equivalent.

696
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 4: Before we keep going, let's take a short break.

697
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

698
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

699
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

700
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are US. Dairy

701
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,600
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702
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

703
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

704
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

705
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four times.

706
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: The same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes the barn,

707
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 1: and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy tackling greenhouse gases?

708
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn the methane from

709
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, and

710
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: electric cars. So the next time you abo slice of

711
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know that dairy

712
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: farmers and processors around the country are using the latest

713
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: practices and innovations to provide the nutrienttents dairy products we

714
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Speaker 1: love with less of an impact. Visit us dairy dot

715
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716
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717
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719
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720
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721
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723
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724
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725
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731
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742
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746
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748
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: It's really quite fascinating, and you know, it's amazing to

749
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: look at the history because they did these experiments in

750
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: the twenties. And the twenties was also when they were

751
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: figuring out quantum mechanics, Like they were like, how does

752
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: this thing work? And they're still trying to put the

753
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 1: math together. And when they were trying to put together

754
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: the math for relativistic quantum mechanics, I was like the

755
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics of tiny particles moving really fast, they discovered

756
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: it didn't work. It only worked if you added some

757
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: new hidden variable to the electrons, like there had to

758
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: be two kinds of them, not just antiparticles and particles,

759
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: but every electron also had to have this other weird

760
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 1: hidden property. And then they called it.

761
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 4: Spin, and it's the same. It turned out to be

762
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 4: the same spin that the other phizzis were looking at.

763
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. It all converged beautifully and they were like, chiching,

764
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: look at this, Oh my god, it all makes sense.

765
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: Now we understand those experiments, right, and so spin masters,

766
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 1: So you need spin, like quantum mechanics doesn't work without spin.

767
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: Like the Lorentz group and quantum field theory. All that

768
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: has has spin deeply built inside of it. You know,

769
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: it's a thing and theoretically it makes sense.

770
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 4: What do you mean it needed like a hidden variable?

771
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 4: What does that mean? Like it needed it need in

772
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 4: like an extra space, like an extra variable attached to

773
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 4: it and the math to like.

774
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, think about an electron is having labels, right, like

775
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: it has a certain mass, it has a certain position,

776
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: it has certain direction, whatever. Every electron also has to

777
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: have this other label. You know, it's either up or down. Right.

778
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: I remember this is spin, so it's not like you're

779
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: spinning at some random speed. It's quantum spin. So there's

780
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: only two options up or down. And so every electron

781
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: has to have this weird label. You're spinning up or

782
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: you're spinning down. And that makes a difference like when

783
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 1: you fill out atomic orbitals. Right, No two electrons can

784
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: be in the same orbital because they're fermions. They don't

785
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: like to share. But an electron that spin up is

786
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: different from an electron that spin down. So you can

787
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: have two electrons in the ground state because they have

788
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: this weird sort of hidden thing that's different about them. Oh,

789
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: the black and the or.

790
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 4: It's like the exception to the poly exclusion. Right, It's

791
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 4: like it lets you go around it, right.

792
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: It's why you can have two atoms in the ground state,

793
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: where otherwise the poly exclusion principle will tell you can't.

794
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: It's because, well, they're not really in the ground state.

795
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 1: There's two ground states. You can have a ground state

796
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: for up and a ground state for down.

797
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 4: Right, mm, but it's not really up and down, right,

798
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 4: it's only up and down if you measure it up

799
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 4: and down.

800
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: It's up and down along whatever direction you measure. So

801
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: if you measure it in X, every electron will say

802
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: I'm up or I'm down. If then you measure it

803
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: in why, every electron will say, oh, I'm up or

804
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm down. But they get mixed up, right, So they're

805
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: quantum mechanically confusing because they're either up or down in X,

806
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: and then later you're up or down and why which

807
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: misses up your upper downness and X. It's very complicated.

808
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 4: So you're saying that electrons can like talk.

809
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: Essentially it's a way to communicate. Yeah, and this is

810
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: why this comes up all the time in like quantum computing,

811
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: because you can use electrons as sort of a cube bit.

812
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 1: Right is it spin up or is it spin down?

813
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: Electron can be in two states, and that's like a

814
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: nice map from a classical bit which is zero or one.

815
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: So these quantum mechanical properties are nice because they have

816
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: two states. Right, So electrons are spin up or spin down.

817
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: So that's why it comes up all the time. And

818
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: also in quantum entanglement, like you have some particle, create

819
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: two electrons, well to conserve anglar momentum, one has to

820
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: be spin up and one has to be spinned down.

821
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 4: Oh really yeah, when you create them out of nothing

822
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 4: or out of something else, they can't both come out

823
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 4: the same spin.

824
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, for example, z bosons can have spin zero.

825
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 4: Well what does that even mean, Daniel? It has no thing,

826
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 4: which is not really like spin.

827
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: It's actually it's actually even more complicated. Z bosons have

828
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: a total spin of one. That's like the length of

829
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: their spin. But this is a vector, so it can

830
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: points in different directions, which means they have three waves

831
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: to spin. So particles like electron are called spin one

832
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: half particles that have one half of a unit of spin,

833
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: which means they can be spin up one half or

834
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: down one half. Z Bosons have spin one, right, so

835
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: they can be spin plus one or minus one or zero.

836
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: So z bosons have three different ways to spin, whereas

837
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: electrons have two ways to spin. It's pretty weird.

838
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 4: It's considered like spin one way or the other way

839
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 4: or not at all.

840
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. But if you have a z boson with

841
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: spin zero and it decays into an electron and a positron,

842
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: then one of them has to be spin up and

843
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: the other one has to be spinned down, so that

844
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: they add up to the original angular momentum of the

845
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: z boson, which was zero.

846
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 4: What if a plus one divides.

847
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: Then it turns into an electron and a positron, which

848
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: are spinning in the same direction, so they add those

849
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: two one halves add up to one.

850
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: I'm going to pretend I understood that.

851
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: Well. That's the cool thing about it is that the

852
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: math of this is really similar. You can use all

853
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: the math you develop for like angular momentum and understanding

854
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: spin over and stuff like that, you can use that

855
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: same math understand spin, which is really compelling to me,

856
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: tells me that theoretically we're dealing with a very similar topic.

857
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 4: Right, Or maybe the math we had to understand angular

858
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 4: momentum matches the physics of quantum particles, right.

859
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly When the math you're describing matches the physics,

860
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: then that's success, Right, That says, oh, look, I've described it,

861
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: I've gotten some insight. I mean, that's all we can

862
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: ever do, right, is hope that the math describes the physics.

863
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 5: Right.

864
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 4: No, what I mean is like, maybe maybe if you

865
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: hadn't call it spin, you call it quantum blikerty blok, right,

866
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 4: and then.

867
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: Reconsidering nominating you for that committee after that?

868
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 4: What do you have against the blukerty books.

869
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to spell it, man anyway.

870
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: All right, So let's say we had quantum blickerty blook.

871
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then later you find out that angler momentum

872
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 4: behaves like quantum blokitty blook, Then that would be which

873
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 4: one would be more correct?

874
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: Right? Which don't be more correct? Well, if you're using

875
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: the same math for both of them, then you're done,

876
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: And it's really just a question of how you name it, right,

877
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: In the end, it's the math, right, The physics is

878
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: really about the math and not the names. In the end,

879
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: it's about these equations on the paper and the structures

880
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: and how are thinking about it.

881
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 4: So, really you could have called it anything, but you

882
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 4: picked spin because it's sort of related to something that

883
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 4: we people had knowledge about, or people have kind of

884
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 4: intuitive understanding about.

885
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: That's right, And because we think it really is a

886
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: kind of angular momentum. What kind is it? And are

887
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: these things really spinning? And why do electrons have intrinsic

888
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: angler momentum that we have no idea, but it seems

889
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: to be necessary to make quantum field theory work. It

890
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 1: seems to be a kind of angular momentum. It's definitely

891
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: a real thing, but it's kind of a mystery, and

892
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: it's something I like to think about, Like, what are

893
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: you doing, little electron? Why are you spinning this way? Oh?

894
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 4: What is making you generate that magnetic field?

895
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: Yeah?

896
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 4: Exactly, exactly, Well, I guess. So then the answer is

897
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 4: what is quantum sin It's it's some property of electrons

898
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 4: that sort of behaves similar to rotation, but we don't

899
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:07,959
Speaker 4: really know what it is, but it's there.

900
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: It's real, and it's definitely not actually spinning. And it's

901
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: not just electrons, right, All particles have some kind of spin.

902
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: There's particles with half intoger spin we call them fermions,

903
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: and all the matter particles like that, electrons and quarks.

904
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: And then there's particles with integer spin, like bosons, like

905
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: photons and w's and z's and gluons and those kind

906
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: of particles. And that's actually the way we distinguish them. Right.

907
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: Fermions have half integer spin and bosons have integer spin.

908
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: So it's an important deal. Like in the particle world,

909
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 1: it's a big deal, right, And you meet a new particle,

910
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: you want to know what is its spin. The Higgs,

911
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: for example, is spin zero. It's the only particle we

912
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 1: know that has no spin at all and never can spin.

913
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: It's the only particle we've ever found that can never spin.

914
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 4: Wow, now you're just messing with basic arithmetic.

915
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 6: Man.

916
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 4: You're like, if it's zero, can only be zero. If

917
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 4: it's one, it can be zero minus. You know what

918
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 4: I mean. You use the same words to describe things

919
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 4: that mean anyways.

920
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: Okay, I should be more careful when I say what

921
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: it means for a particle have a certain amount of spin.

922
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: When we say a particle spin one, what we mean

923
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: is that the length of its spin vector is one.

924
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: Now that vector can point in different directions. Any individual

925
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: particle can have spin plus one, zero, or minus one

926
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: if it's a spin one particle. If a particle is

927
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: spin one half, that's like the length of its spin vector.

928
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: Then it's spin vector can point either plus one half

929
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: or minus one half. Those guys can't be zero.

930
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 4: Cool.

931
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,720
Speaker 1: It's like it's like arithmetic. It's not really really.

932
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, that's what I mean. It would just be

933
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 4: so much easier to understand, you guys. I just said,

934
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 4: instead of thinking it's quantum spin, it's it's like spin.

935
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna say it's like spin from now on,

936
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: and we'll see how many weird eyebrow races I get

937
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: in my physics conversations.

938
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. Well, you'll probably get weird eyebrows in your

939
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 4: physics department. But I'm saying, if you're talking to people

940
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 4: out there in the street.

941
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: Are you suggesting there's like more unibrows in the physics

942
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 1: department than in your average street for unibrows. Weird eyebrows? Man?

943
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: All right, Well, that's what quantum spin is. I know

944
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: it's confusing and it's complicated, but we hope we at

945
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: least brought you up to speed to where the physics

946
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: community is. And remember, even physicists, we don't really know

947
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: what quantum spin is. And all those grad students I asked,

948
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: how would you explain quantum spin to a random person

949
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: on the street, they got themselves tangled up by their

950
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: tongues as well. So it's a confusing topic. But if

951
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: you still have questions about quantum spin, send us an

952
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: email to Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

953
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 4: That's right. You can even send us like emails or like.

954
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: Questions or emails about how much you like us.

955
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:48,479
Speaker 4: See you next time.

956
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: Before you still have a question after listening to all

957
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd love to

958
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter,

959
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge that's one word, or

960
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: email us at Feedback at Danielandhorge dot com. Thanks for listening,

961
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is

962
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

963
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