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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome into this edition of All Ball your boy

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Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieb Beer. You can listen to the Doug gottlam

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Speaker 1: shows free to six Eastern called the Three Pacific, every

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Speaker 1: single day on Fox Sports Radio. If you're on the

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Speaker 1: app thing you do the I Heart Radio app. If

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Speaker 1: you want to stream us, you're sitting and working at

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Speaker 1: home now that's Fox Sports Radio dot Com. Every day

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Speaker 1: we talk whatever is the latest topic in sports. I

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Speaker 1: know there's not live sports. We we've talked a lot

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Speaker 1: about the Last Dance, and we're gonna have Mark Price

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Speaker 1: joined me the Great Sharpshooter Union, Oklahoma Mark Price Arena

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Speaker 1: where I played with UH with the usb L Storm

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Speaker 1: obviously you and and I know, and it was and his dad,

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Speaker 1: his brother Brent, and his late father Denny was just

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Speaker 1: a great great man. Actually our assistant coach with the

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City Storm. So Marco joined us in a moment.

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Speaker 1: I want to give you a couple of thoughts here

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Speaker 1: on the first incarnation of the Last Dance, which UH

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Speaker 1: is in fact, which which was good. I've been told

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Speaker 1: the second episode is the lowest of the ten, although

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Speaker 1: not all ten are finished. I've had people watched them

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Speaker 1: all or whatever they have and said that one was

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Speaker 1: the episode of all of them, which did feel that way. Um,

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Speaker 1: I thought there was a lot of context there with

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Speaker 1: the Scottie Pippen story, only in that nowly did Jordan

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Speaker 1: have a problem with him taking the summer off of

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Speaker 1: getting a surgery. But we forget in ninety four when

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Speaker 1: Jordan's had retired to play baseball, that was when Scottie

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Speaker 1: Pippen wanted out of the game because because Phil didn't

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Speaker 1: run the play for him a man for cou coach

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Speaker 1: cou coats, it's a shot, and then it becomes a

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Speaker 1: big to do and of course they ultimately lose in

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Speaker 1: the series to the New York Knicks. Like that's a

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Speaker 1: that's an issue. These are all and you have long

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Speaker 1: relationships with people. When you kind of quit on your

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Speaker 1: team because you're not getting the ball down the stretch

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Speaker 1: in a big situation, uh that there's gonna be some

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Speaker 1: shrapnel there. There's gonna be some some hard feelings there.

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Speaker 1: And and then for Scotty to say, like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: didn't get the surgery because I wanted to have a long,

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Speaker 1: beautiful summer, you know, f them like that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a funk you to the organist Asian like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like we can sit here and go Jerry Krause was

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Speaker 1: this and that Scotti Pippen signed a long term deal

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Speaker 1: that the start of the deal was a was one

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Speaker 1: of the top ten highest paid players in the NBA,

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Speaker 1: and by the end of the deal it was not.

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Speaker 1: By the end of it was a bad deal. He

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Speaker 1: would have gotten paid, We've gotten taken care of um,

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Speaker 1: which he did. He just didn't get it with the bulls.

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Speaker 1: That's you know, that's what you make it work. So

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Speaker 1: I mean this it's actually very similar to a lot

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Speaker 1: of places at work where you know you you signed

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Speaker 1: long term deal and you think you want security, and

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Speaker 1: then in the middle of getting security you feel like

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Speaker 1: you're getting screwed because other guys are getting more money.

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Speaker 1: In the end of the day, he made over a

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollars as a player, Like I just I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I I agree with Jordan there. You gotta

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Speaker 1: got lost in the moment, lost in his own issue,

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Speaker 1: and we're supposed to forget that he quit on the

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Speaker 1: team in ninety four. That was a bad, bad, bad look. Um.

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Speaker 1: I also think that this is interesting and I said

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Speaker 1: it on radio, and I'll say it to you. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever notice how we take documentaries as the end

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Speaker 1: all be all right, the end all be all Like

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Speaker 1: there was a doc on I forget the company's name,

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Speaker 1: that the republic that the Trump Um Election Committee hired,

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Speaker 1: and you know they were the the camerage Analytics camera.

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Speaker 1: If you watched it, you're like, oh, Cambridge Analytics, Scott,

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Speaker 1: you know, was all bad people. They were simply working

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Speaker 1: for the Republicans and this, and then you you, if

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Speaker 1: you do a little bit of research, if you do

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Speaker 1: a little bit of research that Cambridge Analytics, like some

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Speaker 1: of the people who Cambridge the documentary was counting on

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Speaker 1: to be whistleblowers, they weren't being totally forthright, they weren't

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Speaker 1: being honest. But between that documentary, The Tiger King and

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Speaker 1: now the Last Dance, like, can we can we collectively

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Speaker 1: do ourselves a solid and stop, take a breath, think

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Speaker 1: about just think really long and hard about whether or

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Speaker 1: not we both that that there are two sides to

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Speaker 1: every story. And and maybe if you know it's like

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Speaker 1: the Tiger King, like Joe exoc is a bad guy.

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Speaker 1: There were people who had a petition together to get

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Speaker 1: him pardoned. Why And I don't know if Carol Baskian

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Speaker 1: killed her husband and fed him she fed him to

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Speaker 1: the tigers, but I would think that would be a

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Speaker 1: little bit further along in an investigation. We wouldn't need

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Speaker 1: a documentary to uncover that thing. She was made out

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Speaker 1: to be a horrible human being and she maybe definitely creepy.

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Speaker 1: Thought there was no good people know that as my takeaway.

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Speaker 1: But as we watched this documentary, there's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: lack of balance because somebody has to tell the story,

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Speaker 1: and Jordan's telling most of the story. All right, Well

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Speaker 1: that let's let's get to Mark Price. He's one of

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Speaker 1: the great point guards who I think would carry over

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Speaker 1: to this eric quite well because he was an unbelievable shooter, passer,

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Speaker 1: play uh pick and roll player, and by the way,

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Speaker 1: a really good guy whose family has given back to

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Speaker 1: the game and teaching the world shooting for the last

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Speaker 1: I don't know, fifty years or so. Let's catch up

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Speaker 1: with a great Mark Price. Be sure to catch the

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Speaker 1: live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three

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Speaker 1: p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and

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Speaker 1: The I Heart Radio app welcome and he's former NBA

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Speaker 1: All Star, of course, head coach of Charlotte and a

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Speaker 1: longtime assistant coach shooting coach in the NBA. He's justn't

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Speaker 1: done just about everything in basketball. He's Mark Price. Um,

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Speaker 1: I actually I'm gonna usually we like to start early

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Speaker 1: and then work to where you are now, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: kind of jumble the order just because the only thing

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Speaker 1: anyone is talking about in sports outside of the NFL

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Speaker 1: Draft is the Last Dance, which the Jordan era coincided

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Speaker 1: for the most part, with you with your spectacular career

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Speaker 1: in the NBA and your last year playing in the

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Speaker 1: NBA was Jordan's last year playing with the Bulls. Just

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Speaker 1: your your thoughts on the first two episodes and what

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Speaker 1: you saw. Well, I think obviously for everybody, uh, particularly

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Speaker 1: in in my era, uh and for me personally, haven't

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Speaker 1: haven't kind of been there and experienced it and actually

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Speaker 1: played those guys. And it's, uh, it's interesting to kind

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Speaker 1: of get the backstory. You kind of think you know

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Speaker 1: stuff that it's always fun to kind of get get

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Speaker 1: more details and and kind of see what's from their perspective,

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Speaker 1: you know, what was going on during during that time,

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Speaker 1: because you only kind of saw the team come to town,

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Speaker 1: the hoop low surrounding the Bulls team at that time,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you played and either like the Bulls,

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Speaker 1: you didn't like the Bulls. Uh, you know, one of

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Speaker 1: those kind of things. And and so I think, just

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Speaker 1: for for those of us that have lived it, it

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Speaker 1: was you know, I thought I thought interesting start to it. Okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: well you lived it, but you lived it as you guys.

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Speaker 1: There were several years there where you had incredible teams, right,

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Speaker 1: like you know, fifty five plus. We had a couple

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Speaker 1: of fifty plus win teams, and you couldn't get like

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Speaker 1: he was the nemesis. Um some predating you but but

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Speaker 1: but but he was the nemesis. What let's let's start

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Speaker 1: with Jordan himself. I know you've worked for as well. Um,

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Speaker 1: what was your first Michael Jordan experience was? Was when well,

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Speaker 1: my actual first Jordan experience that was in college. You

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Speaker 1: know I played at Georgia Tech. Uh, those that don't know,

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Speaker 1: and you know in North Carolina. You know, I had

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Speaker 1: just won the national championship. Michael had just hit the shop.

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Speaker 1: He was a sophomore when I was a freshman at

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Speaker 1: Georgia Tech, and and so you know, playing against him

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Speaker 1: at that time, and then also after my freshman year,

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Speaker 1: I was picked to play on the three Pan American

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Speaker 1: team with Michael, and so, uh, you know, I would

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Speaker 1: played with him. I played against him from at college

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Speaker 1: to to what he turned out to be in the NBA.

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Speaker 1: So I I kind of know the whole spectrum of

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Speaker 1: kind of his growth and development as a player, because

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, as good as Michael was in college,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that anybody would have predicted he would

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Speaker 1: have become you know, n J you know, and and

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Speaker 1: what he became at the NBA level. Okay, So so

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Speaker 1: when when you first played against him in college your

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Speaker 1: freshman year, he's a sophomore, what was he like? Well,

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Speaker 1: he was he was obviously a very counted player. But

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Speaker 1: you also have to realize he was playing at North

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Speaker 1: Carolina under Dean Smith and his assistant. You know, I

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Speaker 1: think the joke that goes around a lot, the only

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Speaker 1: person that could ever stop my subsording with Dean Smith

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Speaker 1: because he had his style that they played and it

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Speaker 1: didn't matter who you were, you fit into that style.

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Speaker 1: And and so you saw glimpses of his greatness and

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Speaker 1: his ability, But I don't. I think it was a situation,

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Speaker 1: you know, at the level where he you know, I

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Speaker 1: could totally take over a game, you know, like you

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Speaker 1: can at the NBA level, and so you know his

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Speaker 1: game just I think there was a lot to his

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Speaker 1: game that people didn't see in college, just because of

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Speaker 1: the system that he played in. So you go to

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Speaker 1: the Pan American Games team I got, I had the

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Speaker 1: roster by the way in front of me. Um, this

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Speaker 1: is an unbelievable roster, right you Chris Mullen, Mike Michael Jordan's,

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Speaker 1: Michael cage Ed Pinkney, Charlie Sitton was an incredible player

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Speaker 1: at Oregon State Waymon Tisdale, one of the all time

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Speaker 1: grade uh not only Oklahoma products in the University of Oklahoma,

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Speaker 1: but at a Tulsa who was the first team All

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Speaker 1: American his first three years in college. Leon would of

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Speaker 1: course played in the Olympic team in eighty four, who

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Speaker 1: is now an official, has been an NBA official, Like

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Speaker 1: this is a Sam Perkins remarkable roster. Um, what was

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Speaker 1: that experience? Like it was it was an unbelievable experience.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was kind of shaking myself because you know,

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Speaker 1: I was just a freshman, you know, at Georgia Tech.

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Speaker 1: And you know I went to those trials. And the

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Speaker 1: thing that was funny about those trials was the coach

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Speaker 1: that was a legendary Jack Hartman from Kansas, from Kansas State,

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Speaker 1: and I had turned him down to go to Georgia Tech. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they recruited me extremely hard. Lon Krueger with his cop

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Speaker 1: assistant who recruited me to Kansas State. That had I

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Speaker 1: knocked down to Georgia Tech, there's a good chance I

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Speaker 1: would have ended up the Kansas State And so you

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Speaker 1: know I got invited to the trials. I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go enjoy this experience. That there's no way

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Speaker 1: Hartman sticking me to play on that team. And uh,

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Speaker 1: and yet he did, which spoke a lot to him

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Speaker 1: his character that he was wanted to get the best

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Speaker 1: guys and make the best fit of a team to

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Speaker 1: go play internationally. So there was an unbelievable experience. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned the roster and and uh, all those guys are

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Speaker 1: just fantastic. We had a blast and uh and getting

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Speaker 1: a chance to go play the Ever, what was Jordan

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Speaker 1: the best player was Tuesday the best player. Well, Jordan

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Speaker 1: was the best player. Uh he kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: had you know, got the hank us taken off a

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Speaker 1: little bit. You know. I think he let loose, uh

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Speaker 1: not not being you know, in that North Carolina system,

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Speaker 1: so he kind of let loose and showed what he

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Speaker 1: could do. And and he was definitely the best player.

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Speaker 1: But we had so many guys that were capable on

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Speaker 1: that team and on one night given to the other.

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Speaker 1: But I think Jordan led us in scoring for the

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Speaker 1: Panama games. But like you said, we had so many

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Speaker 1: great players on that team. Yeah, it was a kind

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Speaker 1: of kind of an amazing thing. Who is your roommate? Uh,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember, to be honest, it's that's that's kind

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Speaker 1: of weird, I know. But it was one of those

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Speaker 1: they had this initially like a Olympic village ideal that

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Speaker 1: wasn't very well done. US was in Crockett, Venezuela, and

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Speaker 1: there was a bunch of crazy stuff going on during

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Speaker 1: that time. Political stuff and remember teenage kids with guns

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Speaker 1: or escort and as to these games and stuff that

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Speaker 1: was kind of scary in some ways. But they benstually

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Speaker 1: moved just to a hotel got us out of there,

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Speaker 1: kind of a living situation. And uh, well, now I

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Speaker 1: think I think it was Kylemate Uh, kyl makes it

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Speaker 1: was one of the guys that that, uh that I

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Speaker 1: was with. Um Again, I apologize to skipping around because

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Speaker 1: it's actually harder I note to remember that way. But

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Speaker 1: the next year was eighty four. You went to the

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Speaker 1: eighty four Trials and there's like all these famous unbelievable

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Speaker 1: players You among them that didn't make the team. Jordan did,

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Speaker 1: Barkley didn't, You didn't, Stockton didn't. Um. Uh, what what

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Speaker 1: was what was the what were the eighty four Bob

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Speaker 1: Knight was the coach? The Olympics were in Los Angeles. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course you were an established star in the A

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Speaker 1: c C, coming off your sophomore year, coming off with

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Speaker 1: playing for the Panama Game teams? What was tryouts like?

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Speaker 1: And I guess why didn't you make it? Well? I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, Bobby Knight kind of had his own ideas

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Speaker 1: of what he wanted when he was going in. I

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Speaker 1: think there was I had a pretty good idea that

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Speaker 1: from my perspective, that he had that team kind of

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Speaker 1: already ticked in his mind, you know, It was disappointing

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Speaker 1: because we were kind of under the impression that, h,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, like you said, we were so

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Speaker 1: good that that Pan m team that, you know, having

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Speaker 1: kind of dominated the way we did, that we would

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Speaker 1: be highly considered to be on the Olympic team. But

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Speaker 1: you know, Bobby Knight came in and he kind of

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Speaker 1: did his own thing, and you know, he had a

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Speaker 1: had a kid that he took, happened to be going

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Speaker 1: to Indiana the next year, and something like that offered

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Speaker 1: that he put on the team. But yeah, there are

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Speaker 1: so many guys. That was my first experience. It was

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Speaker 1: funny because going to the Olympic trials and my first

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Speaker 1: experience of meet and Charles Barkley. I actually sat by

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Speaker 1: him on the plane. I've never met him. I really

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Speaker 1: never heard of him at that point, and h he

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Speaker 1: just dominated those trials. You know, I just it was

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Speaker 1: so vivid. I mean, it was that guy was amazing.

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Speaker 1: So really have a lot of guys that were certainly

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Speaker 1: deserving of being on that team that didn't get picked.

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Speaker 1: It was so different then, you know, like the point is,

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Speaker 1: you know, Charles Barkley, who was playing in college and

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Speaker 1: you had never heard of him, you know, never seen

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Speaker 1: him play means really whereas now everybody seems to know everybody,

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Speaker 1: even more so than when I played, you know, and

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Speaker 1: you basketball twenty five years ago, you'd still you get

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Speaker 1: to an All Star game, and you know, I remember

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Speaker 1: the first time I saw Kevin Garnett, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, he's better than everybody else. And that

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Speaker 1: was my senior year. Was an unbelievable class um, but

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Speaker 1: yet to to see guys for the first time, especially

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Speaker 1: when you played in the A C. And then like

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Speaker 1: when you're in the A c C. I mean you

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Speaker 1: had what Dawkins at Duke, you had um you know,

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Speaker 1: led By said Maryland, your guys at Georgia Tech. At

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Speaker 1: North Carolina Virginia, Ralph Sampson was a three time you know,

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Speaker 1: player of the Year. I know, not all these years

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Speaker 1: kind of coincide. I know, there's a kind of a

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Speaker 1: jumble of years but that, but but you you feel

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Speaker 1: like that's where all the great players were. But then

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Speaker 1: there's these players that you'd never seen before, never heard

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Speaker 1: of before, and now you're playing against him. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was definitely a different world that we lived in. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you didn't have cell phones. I mean, you didn't have internet,

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Speaker 1: so you just didn't have the access you know, funny

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Speaker 1: funny stories that uh you know, this is this shows

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Speaker 1: the difference, you know, even in high school and in

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Speaker 1: the ability to no no people. But you know, when

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Speaker 1: I was being recruited by Georgia Tech, I knew they

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Speaker 1: were recruiting John Sally, you know, a kid from New York.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I didn't know anything about him. You

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Speaker 1: couldn't pull up anything to find out about him. I

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Speaker 1: knew he was, you know, six nine, you know, coming

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Speaker 1: out of coming out of New York. And and we

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Speaker 1: show up at campus, you know, first night, two in

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Speaker 1: the morning, and I hear us banging on my door,

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Speaker 1: and uh I opened the door and half to sleep obviously,

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Speaker 1: And and John Sally got this big necklace as spider

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Speaker 1: on it around his neck and you know, and John's

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Speaker 1: the character as everybody knows. And uh, the first thing

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Speaker 1: he says, the worst price, And I said I'm priced.

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Speaker 1: He goes, You're white, and uh, you know it was

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Speaker 1: like here we were being recruited, We knew of each other.

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Speaker 1: He didn't even know I was white. It's just so

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Speaker 1: it just goes to show the different world that we

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Speaker 1: grew you know, grew up in and and the way

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Speaker 1: things were done. But but yeah, to your point, you know,

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Speaker 1: playing in the A C. C back then was just

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Speaker 1: about every point guard I played against, you know, played

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Speaker 1: in the NBA. You had Kenny Smith in North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: he had doctors, had munkey bogs that wait for us.

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Speaker 1: You had made Nook of No. One, and you know

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Speaker 1: at NC State along with Bud Web. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was just like night in night out. It was ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: you know, and so uh, you know, we were kind

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Speaker 1: of in that bubble. Like to your point, Uh, we

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Speaker 1: felt like all the best players were in the sea.

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Speaker 1: But then you know, you go to a pan Apa

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Speaker 1: or an Olympic tryout and get to see other players

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Speaker 1: from around the country, and it was there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun. But see how many good players they

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Speaker 1: were running the guys like Barkley and stopped in guys

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Speaker 1: he's never even heard of. Yeah, my my, uh, my

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Speaker 1: story kind of like that was when I when I

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Speaker 1: signed it Notre Dame. Uh, there was a kid named

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Speaker 1: Gary Bell out of Juliet, Illinois, and he was like

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Speaker 1: listed at six eight and we played in the there's

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Speaker 1: a Coca Cool All American game that Bob Knight's son

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Speaker 1: ran in Indianapolis. And I never forget. I show up

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Speaker 1: at practice and already kind of going up and down

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Speaker 1: because I was like the only West Coast kid there,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, which one's Gary Bell? And they

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Speaker 1: pointed out when I was like, shoot, he was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be six eight. And so he comes over and

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Speaker 1: I go, dude, I thought you were six eight. He goes, man,

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Speaker 1: if I was six eight, I'd be outlawed in three states.

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Speaker 1: So he was like six five. He was like six five. Um, okay,

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Speaker 1: So let's let's go back. You grew up now, obviously

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Speaker 1: your your late father, Denny, was a legend in the

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Speaker 1: basketball community. I got a chance to stay at your

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Speaker 1: parents house after my freshman year at Notre Dame because

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Speaker 1: he had worked, worked for and work with John McCloud.

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Speaker 1: But now, did you your entire childhood was at Enid, Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, Actually, you know, my dad was being a coach.

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Speaker 1: We moved around a lot, you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: it was in Oklahoma. Started out, he started out as

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Speaker 1: a high school coach at UH in Bartsville, Oklahoma, where

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Speaker 1: I was born. Uh. You know, he was actually you know,

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Speaker 1: he played back in the old Industrial League and the

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Speaker 1: Phillips He worked for Phillips p trole Am and played

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Speaker 1: for the Phillips sixty six ers, you know, back in

359
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Speaker 1: the Industrial Leagues, and then he decided to get into coaching,

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Speaker 1: and uh, he ended up being an assistant for John

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Speaker 1: McCloud at the University of Oklahoma, and then when John

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Speaker 1: went to the Phoenix Suns, we moved out there for

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Speaker 1: two years. So, you know, really when I fell in

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Speaker 1: love with the game. You know, my dad was an

365
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Speaker 1: assistant for the Phoenix Suns and I was about ten

366
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Speaker 1: years old and getting to go to all the NBA

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Speaker 1: games and get to watch guys like Dick ben Arsdale

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Speaker 1: and Charlie Scott and all the other guys. That's just

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Speaker 1: that's that's when I was like, man, that's that's when

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Speaker 1: I really fell in love with the game of basketball.

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Speaker 1: But then, you know, he eventually he got a head

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Speaker 1: coaching job in Saint Houston, States, who lived in Texas

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Speaker 1: for about four years, and then going into my high

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Speaker 1: school years is when we moved back to Oklahoma to

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Speaker 1: en it. But they've been there ever since, so you know,

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Speaker 1: my high school years were in Enid, and my brothers

377
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Speaker 1: lived there longer. But but that's kind of where it

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Speaker 1: all started. Um Uh, why Georgia Tech, Because I think,

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Speaker 1: I think what happens now is we we looked through

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Speaker 1: the glass of two day and and figure out what

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Speaker 1: But like your freshman year of Georgia Tech, you guys

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Speaker 1: weren't good, like record wise, you know, you and John

383
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Speaker 1: Sally starting as freshman, you guys became very good, but

384
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Speaker 1: you weren't good. Why would you go play for for

385
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Speaker 1: a New Yorker in the a c C at Georgia

386
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Speaker 1: Tech instead of Jack Hartman at Case State, instead of

387
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Speaker 1: playing at o U at Oklahoma State or what like?

388
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 1: Why why Georgia Tech? Well it was interesting kind of

389
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 1: how to unfold it? Um Yeah, to your point, Georgia

390
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,479
Speaker 1: Tech had just gotten into the a c C one

391
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: or two years before I showed up, and they were

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Speaker 1: one of the worst programs in the country when Bobby

393
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Speaker 1: Crumby took over, and uh, and he got, you know,

394
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Speaker 1: go to the CEC. Bobby said, I gotta find a

395
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Speaker 1: point guard and I gotta find a big man to

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Speaker 1: start my program. And they were so bad they obviously

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Speaker 1: couldn't go. You know, my kid Bobby all the time,

398
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Speaker 1: because after after I left him, he was able to

399
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Speaker 1: get Kenny Anderson and step On Marbury as he could get.

400
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Speaker 1: Before I said, I even get into the stay, I said,

401
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 1: I said, you know, if I were out there to day,

402
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Speaker 1: you wouldn't even come recruit me because I was so

403
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: far under the radar. But that's all he could recruit

404
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,120
Speaker 1: at that time. And his assisted George Felton, Uh, Tommy

405
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: play in an AU tournament out in Florida. We had

406
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 1: unbelievable anyway that Tisdale was on that team with me.

407
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: We had really good guy Anthony Boie. Uh, you know,

408
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: we had a bunch of guys end up making the pros.

409
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: And Oklahoma is not necessarily known to be basketball, it's

410
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Speaker 1: more football. But we had an unbelievable team. And George

411
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 1: Felton saw me play. He calls up Bobby and he says,

412
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Speaker 1: I found found a point guard. Need not to know, Bobby.

413
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 1: He didn't think anybody at that time outside of New

414
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Speaker 1: York City could play basketball, and so uh he's he

415
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 1: custing at George saying, I'm not going to Florida to

416
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 1: recruit a kid, and George says, no, Bobby, it's better

417
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: than mathis kids from Oklahoma until of course the rules

418
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: the rules were different back then, and they came to

419
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: watch me play seventeen times my senior year. Uh. And

420
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Speaker 1: so as I started thinking schools to go visit, I

421
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Speaker 1: was like, well, at least I gotta go at least

422
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Speaker 1: visit these guys school They earned that they worked there,

423
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: worked their butt off recruiting me. But at the time

424
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Speaker 1: I was playing on staying close to home. I loved

425
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Speaker 1: all the I was being recruited by all the Oklahoma schools, Oklahoma,

426
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Speaker 1: Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Nolan Richard, two of it taught. At

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Speaker 1: the time, they had just come off a great run

428
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: with Paul Pressy and those guys UM and Kansas State,

429
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: and so I was really looking at staying fairly close.

430
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: But you know, I had my list of things that

431
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: I priorities that I was looking for in a school,

432
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: and and you know, from academics to you know, back

433
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: then there was no comparison. The a SEC was the

434
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 1: best conference in the country. And I was always a

435
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: huge North Carolina fan, and they kind of passed on

436
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: me because they said I was too small. But uh,

437
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, Georgia Tech came along. I went and visited

438
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: and kind of fell in love with the situation, and

439
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: and I wanted to go somewhere where I could play

440
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: right away. And Tech was so bad at the time,

441
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: I knew that that was going to happen there. Uh,

442
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: you know, people forget to back, you know, and Mayer

443
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: and you're a lot of guys if you went to

444
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: a good program, we were looking at probably not get

445
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: much court time until your sophomore year year because you know,

446
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: you had guys playing until they were seniors. So it

447
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: was a different, different environment. I wanted to go somewhere

448
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: where I could play right away. I wanted to play

449
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: against the best. Um Tech was a great academic school

450
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: and just put did all the boxes. It just happened

451
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: to be a long way away from home. But but

452
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: it ended up being the best decision. Obviously, most points

453
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: you had in high school as how many with no

454
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: three point line though, right with no three point line,

455
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: and that was about in three quarters. I remember we

456
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 1: were beating the team and you know, pretty bad, and

457
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: I'm sitting over there on the bench and my coach

458
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: Dustin becomes by. I think, goes, Mark, go back in

459
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: and scored two more baskets. I didn't even know what

460
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: he really know what he was talking about. I didn't

461
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 1: say anything. So I go back in, I score two

462
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: more baskets, and they announced that I have fifty points.

463
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: I didn't even know I had that many, but so, yeah,

464
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: it was I scored a lot in high school. When

465
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, I work with your dad obviously, and I'm

466
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: not sure your your late father would like to claim

467
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: me as as one of his students on shooting. UM.

468
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: But here's here's what's here's what's fascinating. Okay, So my

469
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: freshman year at Notre Dame UM John McCleod, I shoot

470
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: an air ball at the free throw line against Rutgers.

471
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: It's our first ever Big East game and we had

472
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: a fourteen pointly we end up losing at the rack

473
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: at Rutgers, and I shot. I shot an airball and

474
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: then I made the next one. And honestly, it wasn't

475
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: really on my mind, but I had I developed a

476
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: little bit of tension at the free throw line. I

477
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: don't know, it was like late in high school. I

478
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: was I was never like you guys, but I was

479
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: a good money, like foul me at the end of

480
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: a game, I'll make a free throw shooter and it

481
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: I just started to kind of get a little tight

482
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: and a a little bit of the yips. But it wasn't

483
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: that bad. And uh, the next day. The way it

484
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: worked at Notre Dame was you'd get like a blinking

485
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: red light on your phone in your dorm room and

486
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: it would be a message from coach McLeod secretary and

487
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: she would say, you know, can you come down and

488
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: meet with coach at such and such time? And and

489
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: John McCleod, Uh, he was I'm an unbelievably classy human being.

490
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: He would never rip you in front of the team.

491
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: He never Everything was very general. Notre Dame, we gotta

492
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: do this, Notre Dame. Where imature Notre Dame with this,

493
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: But it would never be personal at all. Now, when

494
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: you went into his office, you closed door. Now he

495
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: would now would be much more personal, whether it's positive

496
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: or negative anyway. So we sit I sit down in

497
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: his office. It's like a Sunday morning, and we flip

498
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: on the game and I think we're gonna watch the

499
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: game and what went wrong? He wants to know what

500
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: went wrong at the free throw line? And I was like,

501
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, coach, and you know, I really started

502
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: lifting weights. I'd gotten big, got little muscle bound. So

503
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: apparently i'd called your dad, and so coach McLeod goes

504
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: out and we start changing my free throw for my

505
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: shooting for him. Now keep mind John McLoud never played basketball,

506
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: so it's basically like your dad describing to him what

507
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: I should do. And one of the things, one of

508
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: the adjustments that was made was he actually moved my

509
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: left hand kind of almost in front of the ball.

510
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: And then when in the summer I came and I

511
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: stayed with your your parents, and your dad did the

512
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: same thing. Then Brent walks into the gym one day

513
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: when he comes back from playing, and he walks in

514
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: the gym and where together, and he goes, why is

515
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: your left hand in front of the ball. I said, well,

516
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: that's what your dad did, and he goes, don't do that.

517
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: I don't, don't don't do that. Don't don't do that,

518
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: And but you do, you guys do? I mean, look,

519
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: you're one of the greatest shooters in the history of

520
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: the sport. Okay, so in terms of shooting, how did

521
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: you develop how did you develop your form? How did

522
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: you develop your shot like when you're I know this

523
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: is far afield from what everybody's talking about today, but

524
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things that you did, um and

525
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: I want to get to the pick and roll in

526
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: a second. But in terms of shooting the basketball, you

527
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: know what what what's the thought process in building the

528
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: perfect jump shot like the one you had? Well, I

529
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: think there's you know, some basic things. One is, you know, preparation,

530
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: you know, I think one of the things, particularly when

531
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: I talk tea shooting and work with people, and most

532
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: people when they think shooting is starts from the waist up.

533
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: You know what, where's your elbow? Where's you know, where's

534
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: your fall up? Whereas you know? What are you focusing on?

535
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: You know those type of things, and those are important.

536
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: But you know, your your footwork and your balance, to

537
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: me is where a lot of where it all starts.

538
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: And I think most of them misses. You can break

539
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: guys shots down, but even guys that are they're pretty

540
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: fundamentally sound, most of their misshots tend to be they're

541
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: not ready to shoot. Their off balance, their footworks not

542
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: where it needs to be, They're not ready to shoot it.

543
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: When they tested the ball, and so that was just

544
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: something that that was, you know, just a real pet pee.

545
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: You know. I was just was constantly working my feet.

546
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: As soon as that ball hit my hands, I was

547
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: ready to get rid of it because one I had

548
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: to get my shot off click, because I wasn't very big,

549
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, comparatively the most of the guys I was

550
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: playing again, and so that was just something I worked on.

551
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: But you know, getting that ball you hear, you know,

552
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: getting the ball in the shooting pocket and having that

553
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: thing ready. You know, I think guys get real lazy

554
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: with that stuff. And I was just something that I

555
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: always tried to consistently, you know, shoot the ball the

556
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: same way every time. And I think that's where the

557
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: consistency came from. Did you have a routine like daily

558
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: did you have like what what is the what's the

559
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: what's the process you went through of of working on

560
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: your shot? Like is it every day I got up

561
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: and I shot in the morning and I shot at night?

562
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: Was there a certain number like you know, when you

563
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: when you think back to your early days as a player,

564
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: what was the was the pattern by which you built

565
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: your game around? Yeah? I mean it was you know,

566
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: I just spent a ton of time in the gym.

567
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: But I was always very purposeful. And what I did,

568
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, I I see kids of the gym. My

569
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: biggest thing. When I talked about shooting, you know, you've

570
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: got a practice with purpose, you know, guy rating to

571
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: the gym. I got up a hundred shots. That doesn't

572
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean anything to me. It's like what you know,

573
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: what kind of shots? You know? What were you What

574
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: was your purpose in those hundred shops? You know, what

575
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: is it you're working on it? I think that was

576
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: the one thing that kind of separated me because you

577
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: hear this. So he's a hard worker, you know type

578
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: thing all the time. But you know he can work

579
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: hard and kind of be spinning the wheels in a

580
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: lot of ways in my mind, because you're not putting

581
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, you're not out there with a purpose. You know,

582
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: one thing I would do. You know, my wife even

583
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: you know, says this all the time when you talked

584
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: to my boys or whatever, that I might see something

585
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: that somebody did over the course of a season. You know,

586
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: whether I move I wanted to make or you know,

587
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: another move that I wanted to add to my arsenal

588
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: and I would add that, you know, I would work

589
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: on that all summer, you know, to try to add

590
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: so I would go back because you know how it is,

591
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: I mean, especially now, it's so sophisticated. I mean, everybody

592
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: knows every single thing you do. You know, how are

593
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: they going to shut you down with? You got to

594
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: constantly be growing. You've got to constantly add things to

595
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: your game. And I just felt like that was kind

596
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: of helped me stay ahead of the curve and always

597
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: you know, the competition at the NBA level or you know,

598
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: ACC level and colleges stop the charts. So to be

599
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: the best and to compete against the best, you know,

600
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: you've got to constantly be improving, finding ways to add

601
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: and get better. You know you are. Steve Kerr credited

602
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: you with being kind of the first to really know

603
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: how to split a pick and roll. You were unbelievable

604
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: in the pick and roll. And it's interesting because you know,

605
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: you look at the some of the things that that

606
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: Steph Curry does are things honestly that you did. You know,

607
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: the abilities some guys can shoot off the catch, some

608
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: guys can shoot off the dribble. You could shoot off both.

609
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: What step does the range that he does it from, Uh,

610
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: going to his right, going to his left is almost otherworldly.

611
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: But there is a there. There is if you study,

612
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: if you study what you did, there's a lot of you.

613
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: You were kind of the first, Like you said, you

614
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: were ahead of the curve um, but that was you know,

615
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: you're in an era of more passing game, right or

616
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: more motion offense. Where did that come from? How did

617
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: you develop such a supreme game using the pick and roll?

618
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: So it's it's funny because I don't know if I

619
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: ran a picking roll for four years in college, like

620
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: you said, we uh, you know, boost to run passing

621
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: game and I bring the ball up the floor, I

622
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: passed it, I'd go down, I'd come off picks catching shoot.

623
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: You know, that's kind of the way the game was

624
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: played during during that time. So you know, I actually

625
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: the NBA offered it opened up my game, I mean

626
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: to a whole new level. You know. I know there

627
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: was a lot of people didn't think I'd be able

628
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: to play in the NBA, but you know, I had

629
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: to my skill set that I didn't even really get

630
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: to use in college. My ability to do stuff off

631
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: the dribble was what people I think we're sleeping on

632
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: because I never got to see me do it a

633
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: lot at the college level, and so you know when

634
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: I came in, and obviously Brad Doherty he was very

635
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: I mean one of the most underrated big men. Doesn't

636
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: get the credit. I mean, had he not had injuries,

637
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: I mean here, five time All Stars, it was, but

638
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: unbelievably skilled, talented player. Uh. We just kind of clicked

639
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: together with the pick and roll. I know, everybody when

640
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: they think our error, they always talking about stop him

641
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: in the loan. But I would have put Brad and

642
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: myself right there with them any day from you know,

643
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: It's just we were so good it was impossible to stop,

644
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: you know, with my ability to shoot the ball coming

645
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: off picks to how Brad, how we read each other

646
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: and his ability. It was just uncanny. But you know,

647
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: it was funny because my freshman year how the split

648
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: kind of came about. It just kind of happened. It

649
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: wasn't something that I had worked on at the time,

650
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: but I remember it visibly because we were playing in

651
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: Philadelphia seventy six ers and the great you know More Cheeks,

652
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: who was a great defender at the point guard position.

653
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: But I just come off. When we played in Cleveland

654
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: against Philly, and I set my career high at that time.

655
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: I think I had liked or thirty as a rookie

656
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: that game and I was just you know, killing it

657
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: from a three point line. And and so like we

658
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: did back in those days, we had a lot of

659
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: back to backs with the same team. And so we

660
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: go to Philadelphia the next night, and I mean, in

661
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: their life, when I get in the game, I was

662
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: coming off the bench that first year, and when I

663
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: came in a game and came off the pit, I

664
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: mean they were like they were like attacking me, you know,

665
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: trapping me in just it was crazy about third or

666
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: fourth time I come off, and they're big guys just jumping,

667
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: I mean jumping hard at me. And he jumps and

668
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: I just kind of instinctively this thing opens up kind

669
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: of like the red seat, and I just instinctively kind

670
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: of kind of you know, throw the ball between the trap,

671
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: take a couple of steps, catch it, and score and uh.

672
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: And the reason it was so memorable to me because

673
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 1: as we're running down the floor, my Chiefs goes man,

674
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: that was a sweet move. And so I was like

675
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: with my Chiefs because the sweet move and that from

676
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: that point on, I kind of purposed purposely when I worked,

677
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: started looking for that, and that's just kind of how

678
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: it developed. And then I just it just kept growing

679
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: from there. But you know, the way teams played back then,

680
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: and the way they tried to double team and trapped

681
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: and and Patrick you and you know, we coached together

682
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: in Orlando. He used to why, he said, I used

683
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: to get so mad at you know, they're yelling at

684
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 1: me to jump out there, and he goes, I knew

685
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: you were just gonna split me every time. And uh,

686
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: you know, it was just something that kind of came about.

687
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: And now you see so many guys doing it. You know,

688
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if I was the first guy to

689
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: do it, you know I I would didn't we take

690
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: credit for that, but a lot of people give me

691
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: credit for being one of the first guys to do it.

692
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: That your rookie class, so you're drafted by Dallas was

693
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: it was a trade for the to the Calves, so

694
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: hot Rod Williams, you, Johnny Newman, h Ron Harper, and

695
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: Brad Doherty like that's that's an unbelievable group of rookies. Uh,

696
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: to go to the cast, and we look at all

697
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: the success that you guys had. Ron obviously was was

698
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: a big time score before he left, and then you

699
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: know he got hurt with the Clippers and and and

700
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: now he's remembered as as more of a winner and

701
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: an all around player. Um, but that was did you know?

702
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: You had something like what was Again it's kind of similar,

703
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: honestly to Georgia Tech in that people forget the Calves

704
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 1: were terrible and then you guys have this remarkable draft

705
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: class and like two years later, you guys win fifty

706
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: seven games? What what? What? What was that like to

707
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,919
Speaker 1: be with such a talented but very very young Calves roster? Well,

708
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: it was, it was. It was just a lot of fun.

709
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: You know, it was kind of a rebuilding deal. We

710
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: had the five rookies. Like you said, It's the other

711
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: thing that hot Rod Williams. You know, he had been

712
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: drafted the year before, but because of all the stuff

713
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: he was going through it they didn't allow him to

714
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: play his first year. And so you know you had Brad,

715
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: hot Rod, Ron, Me, I mean, and Johnny Men. We

716
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: all came in together and it's you know, I say

717
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: this all the time, I don't know why why that

718
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 1: that draft has to be one of the best all times,

719
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, for one team and what you don't hear

720
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: much about that, but but yeah, it was it was fun.

721
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: You know, Ron was was trupic. Like you said, most

722
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: people think of Ron is kind of the role player

723
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: and winning championships and this and that. But I mean

724
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: Ron was a big time stud coming out. I mean

725
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: really by his second year in Cleveland, I mean, Jordan's

726
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: drex Fler, but I don't know if anybody else you

727
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: could much put ahead of him, you know, he was

728
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: he was really good and thinking he was that flasher

729
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: that we had in cleaning that after he left really

730
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: heard us uh from from kind of compete, but that

731
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: I really believe it row on it stayed, we would

732
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: have had a legitimate chance that winning a couple of championships.

733
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 1: I think we were that good. You guys. The next

734
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: year you made the playoffs for the first time, right,

735
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: and that was that was the first time. That was

736
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 1: the first time that you guys lost to the bulls. Um.

737
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: I think when I went and looked this, this, uh

738
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: Jordan's first two games, he had fifty and fifty five

739
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: and if I remember correctly, and that that Lenny's hold.

740
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 1: Lenny Wilkins was your coach, right, and his whole deal,

741
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: his whole deal was, we're not good. We're gonna we're

742
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: gonna if he if he beats us by himself, beat

743
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: him by himself. But we're not gonna double team Jordan's

744
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: And like every year he would he would beat you, right,

745
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: Wasn't that? Is that? Is that an accurate depiction of

746
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: the Skyner report? Yeah, that's that's pretty accurate. Uh. You know,

747
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: Michael probably scored fifty year more against us than anybody else.

748
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: But you know, during the season, uh, most of the time,

749
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: we would win those games. I remember the thing that

750
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: most people don't remember whenever they talk about the shots

751
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: the year that he beat us. You know that first

752
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: of all, that was like a first round series and

753
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: it wasn't for the wasn't for the championship, you know,

754
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 1: but there was a five game series back then, and

755
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 1: we were banged up. I didn't even play the first

756
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: game that series. I have pulled hamstring. But we had

757
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: beaten the bull six times that year, six and note

758
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: against them, and uh, and then it goes all, you know,

759
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: we get it back to game five and then he

760
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: hit the shot. But uh, I mean that's how that's

761
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 1: how good we were. And he was just an uncanny ability,

762
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: you know, in the playoffs and we were it wasn't

763
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: like we weren't playing well or at a high level.

764
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: We were playing really well, and you know, he would

765
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: just able to take it to a different level. And

766
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: of course it was Scottie Pippen's development, as I think

767
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people are going to see in this

768
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: last dance thing, it was Scottie Pippen that was the

769
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: difference maker in so many ways. How so well he

770
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: was just I mean he wasn't just the number two guys,

771
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: I mean he was he was legit. He might have

772
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: been in some people's minds made the second best player

773
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: behind George's in the league. I mean, he was that

774
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: good and talented. His ability to take crash off Michael

775
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: defensively and handle the ball and through all the kind

776
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: of different things that he did. But Pippen was unbelievable.

777
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: And so you know when when he when he broke out,

778
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: it was lights out for produced about everybody else. All right,

779
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: now you ain't nine playoffs, you guys are up a hundred.

780
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: You're at home what do you remember about the huddle

781
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: before the shot? Well, even to take you back three

782
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: seconds before that, we were down one for six seconds

783
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: ago and Elo throws the ball and bounds. Jordan's covering him.

784
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: Michael turns his head, Craig dives to the basket, Larry

785
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: hits them lay up. We're up one. He scored two quick,

786
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: there's still three. There's still three seconds left. But a

787
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: lot of people don't even realize that part of the story.

788
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just the wave of emotions in

789
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: that game was unreal. I mean, here we were down

790
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: one with six seconds or up one with three seconds,

791
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: and basically Lenny's plan with the double teams, and you

792
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: knew they were throwing at the Jordan's double teaming, and

793
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, Larry jumped out to try to kind of

794
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: help them Nie, which looking at hydside, I think the

795
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: better player would have been to maybe forcing out making

796
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 1: catch the ball more at half court area. He kind

797
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 1: of went out. Larry lines, he's back, kind of back cut.

798
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: They got in the ball and he got the ball

799
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: to his sweet spot to pre throw a line, and

800
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: you know, Craig did unbelievable job. He chased him. He's

801
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: right there and Michael just hanged that's in passed and

802
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: then hit the shot. It was It was incredible, Uh,

803
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: incredibly disappointing for us obviously and everybody in the building,

804
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: but you know, that's what great players do, and he

805
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: made an unbelievable shot. You know, fifty seven wins that year, Um,

806
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: did you get was the next year the year you

807
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: got hurt? Uh? I got I was out ninety nine

808
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: and that that you were one of the first. You

809
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: were one of the first guys to know it tears

810
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: a c L. But come back, didn't you? You hit?

811
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: You ran into the boards? Is one of those the

812
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: first incarnation of the rotating signs, wasn't it? Is? That?

813
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: Is that how you? Yeah? I was actually in Atlanta,

814
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: of all places that we were playing. I went to

815
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: chase a loose ball a jump and I kind of

816
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: landed on that kind of rotating sign thing and you know,

817
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: pull my a c L. And like you said, at

818
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: that time, that was a career, career ending injury. Um.

819
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: I was actually the quickest back from that at that

820
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: point in time, which shows you that you know, the

821
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: difference and technology is today. But I was back in

822
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: eleven months and now the guys get back four or

823
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: five months or whatever they're playing. But when I came back,

824
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: and you know, I was able to make the All

825
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: Star team and it didn't quite seem to miss a beat.

826
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: You know, I was fortunate. Uh, but they did a

827
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: great job with obviously my surgery and the rehab and

828
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: everything else, and I was able to get back. It

829
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: is as stating on how you mentioned on how people

830
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: don't point out Craig's lay up, people don't point out

831
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: how great your draft class was, and it is because

832
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: we are so one. It's it's the Jordan thing, but

833
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's we're like a we're like a

834
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: bottom line business. As as as sports commentators or sports fans,

835
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: right like we we talked about the Pistons, but that's

836
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: only because they won two championships. Um, you know obviously

837
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: the Celtics as well. Whereas you guys were consistently competitive

838
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: when healthy, even though you lost Ron and then the

839
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: year you got hurt, you weren't. You guys weren't very good.

840
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: But you guys were, you know, a fifty plus win team.

841
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: You just couldn't get past the bulls. Um, what is that?

842
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: What is that like to have so many guys have

843
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: unbelievable careers, but not have history smiled down upon you

844
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: as well, because it's covered up under the shadow of

845
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: the Jordans era, if you will. Yeah, I mean it's uh,

846
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's it was. It's difficult at

847
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: times because I mean, everybody's us to be appreciated for

848
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: what they do. Of course, you know, people in Cleveland,

849
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: they they absolutely loved our team. I mean they Cleveland

850
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: fans are gray. I mean, I still go back up

851
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: there and it's it's unbelievable, I mean how much they

852
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: loved loved our team. But you know, from a national level,

853
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we obviously weren't weren't appreciated, but

854
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: I think you talked to any of the players that

855
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: played in our area, even the Bulls, I mean, even

856
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: though they were beating us, it wasn't like I mean,

857
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: they're every one of those games was down to the wire,

858
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: it seemed like, and they were going, you know, it

859
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: was doing the distance most of the time. But you know,

860
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: they were just a little bit better than they had

861
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: the superstar player, and I think that was plus we

862
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: had so many great, great basketball players and you know,

863
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 1: all star guys, but you know, not that one guy

864
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: that could just you know, take over a game. You know,

865
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: we did it as a team, as a collective group

866
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: I love. I mean, had unbelievable teammates and it was

867
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: a blast plan. We we got everything possibly we could

868
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: out of our ability, and I think that's that's what's satisfying,

869
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: knowing that, you know, not everybody's gonna win a championship

870
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: and you look at so many great players. It's not

871
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: like you said, you know, I think fortune's got to

872
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: smile down on you a little bit and things gotta

873
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: go your way from you gotta be healthy, you gotta

874
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: you know, get a break here and there. It just

875
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: didn't quite happen for us. But to me, it doesn't

876
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,399
Speaker 1: diminish my career, doesn't diminish what what we we accomplished,

877
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: because like you said, it was when we came in

878
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: there they were the cadavers and uh and when and

879
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: when we left it was you know, perennial playoffs, franchises,

880
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: and so you know, we're proud of what we accomplished. Um,

881
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: you've been able to play in and now coaching you know,

882
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: all kind of maybe three of these these generations, Um,

883
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: Larry Bird and the Celtics. What was what's an experience

884
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: like to play against Larry Bird? Um in the in

885
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: the peak of his career. But Larry was just I mean,

886
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: you know, that air was unbelievable, you know, along with

887
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: magic and what he did with with l A. But

888
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: you know, there's just something about those guys, Larry. I mean,

889
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: he's obviously surrounded by unbelievable players as well, but just

890
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: to feel for the game, knowing how to play the game,

891
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 1: I think that's the difference to me from the way

892
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: the game is being played right now, you know. I

893
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: mean you can people can argue this and that it,

894
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: but I just, you know, from my own standpoint, you know,

895
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 1: I'm just the poetry of of playing the game all

896
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: over the floor. And that's what a guy like you know,

897
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: Larry Bird could do. I mean, you know, if he

898
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: was playing this area today, I mean, and shooting twelve

899
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: ft three is a game, he could do that. But

900
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: that's he played the whole game. He played all over

901
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: the floor. And going back to your point, I think

902
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: one of the things that allowed me to you know,

903
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 1: be good and at the NBA level and in the

904
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: pick and roll and all the things that was because

905
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: growing up, you know, we we just practiced on every

906
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,959
Speaker 1: shot all over the floor. If you're opening fifteen feet,

907
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: if you're shooting a runner at eight seat, or you know,

908
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: if you're shooting twenty five that you didn't have a line.

909
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,479
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't have a three point line until

910
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: I got to these in the A And I think

911
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: from my perspective, it really hurts the development of players

912
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: because you can't even go in the gym. I mean,

913
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: I do basketball camps, and you know you're going before

914
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: the camp starts, and I mean when you think it

915
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 1: was you know, you're gonna get shocked if you crossed

916
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 1: that line. I mean, every kids out there just porched

917
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: in three. You know, they didn't even know how to

918
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: shoot yet, you know, and they're they're out there hoisting

919
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: the three point line and you know, and it's just

920
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: the nature of the game now. But threes, layups and

921
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: pre throws, that's all anybody wants to do. And so

922
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 1: you know, from my perspective, you know, we've lost a

923
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: little bit of the poetry of the game. I mean,

924
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: the skyhooks from cream up buds, the bar, I mean,

925
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: it wouldn't fit today because of the analytics. I mean,

926
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: so many great players and the ability to score all

927
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: over the floor. And I think that's what guys like

928
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: Larry and Magic in that group, they were just so

929
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: fun to watch because you know, you could hit the three,

930
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: they could post up, they could They were just so

931
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: skilled in all aspects of the games. How would you

932
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: fix it? How would I fix it? Yeah? Yeah, I

933
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: mean do you use the three point line? You moved

934
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: to three point line out even further to to make

935
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: it so it's such a difficult hut, Like, how would

936
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: you fix it? I don't know. I don't know, but

937
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: you know you can fix it because it just because

938
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: it's there now, you know, like I said I would

939
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: if I was in charge of the basketball universe, you know,

940
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have a three point line until college, just

941
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: to teach kids how to play the game all over

942
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: the floor. I think it was such an advantage for

943
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 1: me because that was one of the reasons, you know,

944
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: I was successful, because if you ran me off the

945
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 1: three point line, I could do other things. I could score,

946
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 1: I could shoot floaters, I could hit from pull up

947
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: from fifteen feet. But that's all because I had to

948
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: do learn to do all those things because I was

949
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: getting double team and triple teamed in high school and

950
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: having to shoot all over the floor and be creative,

951
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: learned how to get my shot, to learn how to

952
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: create space. You know, I think it really stunts the

953
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: growth because you know, our kids know how to do

954
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: now she was spot up three. You know, that's why

955
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: it's fun to watch a Steph Curry, Like you said,

956
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: guys that can catch and shoot, but also they can

957
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: move and shoot it off the dribble and and that

958
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: takes you know, playing that way and being in situations

959
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, I think a lot of it, honestly, Mark, Mark, Honestly,

960
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: a lot of it is guys don't play as much anymore.

961
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 1: They all they everybody's an individual workout one on cone

962
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: and yes there's an emphasis and three point shot and

963
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: layups and and and runners as well, but there's just

964
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: you don't have the creativity of having. You know, when

965
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: I was a kid, my dad would he'd take me

966
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: to this. There's a park called Miles Square Park. It's

967
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: in Fountain Valley and there's nine courts and he would

968
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 1: take me. There's seven o'clock game. He'd take me there

969
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: and old men would start playing whatever, and he'd call

970
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: a game for me, make sure I got my first game.

971
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: He'd sit there and watch a game or two, and

972
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: then he'd leave me five bucks, and I he I

973
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: might come back and get you in the afternoon, and

974
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: you just play all day. And I do think there's

975
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: a certain the two things. One you need to have

976
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: that I'm always in the gym working on, you know,

977
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: like you said, purposeful practice and working on your shooting

978
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: in your game. And but also the feel I think

979
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: comes from playing and and and and but they do,

980
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,240
Speaker 1: they do play games, but they only played like organized

981
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: AU games instead of just just play and pick up basketball,

982
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: just learning with new teammates and and where, you know,

983
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 1: seeing things develop. I don't know. I just you know,

984
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: like I have an eleven year old son and I'm

985
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: trying to trying to teach him how to see what

986
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: I see. And it's really hard because, you know, the

987
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: only times we get the chance to be creative, I'll

988
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: just have an open like, hey, we're just gonna play

989
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: today and just let guys. Let guys play, And they

990
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: literally don't know what to do. They don't know how

991
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: to call a game. They don't know they have. They

992
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: they're almost like locked up because they can't understand there's

993
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: no scoreboard and there's no pool play and there's no

994
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: press and there's no full core press. Right, they're just

995
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: because let's just go play and play man and man

996
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: and play basketball. Yeah, how about just playing? And then

997
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: when the last time you saw guys just playing three

998
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: on three? Yeah, you know, I mean I think that's

999
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: one of the best ways to learn how to play

1000
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,760
Speaker 1: the game that there is. You know, there's three guys,

1001
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 1: hey man, you know, spread the floor, use picking rolls, whatever,

1002
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: just learn how to play, you know. And like you said,

1003
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: kids just don't you know even when I was, you know,

1004
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: coaching at the college level stuff that I would be.

1005
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 1: I mean, my brothers and I grew up, you know,

1006
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: playing one on one against each other, you know, and

1007
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: you'd start out with, Okay, you can you're unlimited and

1008
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: do whatever you want to. Okay, now you can only

1009
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: take two dribbles. You gotta get your shot off. And

1010
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: now you only got one dribble and learning how to

1011
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: I mean you do that now. I mean kids literally

1012
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: look at you, like, how am I supposed to get

1013
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: a shot off? With one dribble. You know, I am

1014
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: supposed to get a shot off two dribbles. I mean,

1015
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: it's learning how to create space and you know, head

1016
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 1: face shot fakes, playing with a live dribble. I mean,

1017
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: that's that's how you learned to play the game. Isaiah

1018
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,280
Speaker 1: Thomas is gonna be made out to be, uh, the villain,

1019
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, some of it has earned.

1020
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: Some of it is is just that that's you know,

1021
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: how that how the Pistons Bulls rivalry kind of ended. Um,

1022
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: you know, we we do talk about the Celtics a lot,

1023
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: talk about the Lakers. I don't the Pistons are a

1024
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: team that they're interesting because they were the bad boy

1025
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: Pistons right again, also during your era. That's part of

1026
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: why people don't talk enough about what you guys did

1027
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: in Cleveland. You would you'd guard Isaiah, you'd guard Joe Dumars.

1028
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: What were they like? Um, they were great. You know,

1029
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: Isaiah and I had we kind of had a you

1030
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: know a little bit of arrival. We were in the

1031
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: same division, so we're plinding each other, you know, six

1032
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: six times a year. And h you know, he was

1033
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,720
Speaker 1: he was tough, he was he was a great, great player.

1034
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: Like you said, I think he gets Bill and eyes

1035
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: a little bit just because that whole bad boy thing

1036
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: that the whole team they want as much as as

1037
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: good as they were and winning the championships, people just

1038
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 1: didn't like them because of the way they the way

1039
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: they played and the way they got it done. But uh,

1040
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, we had we had a great rivalry. You

1041
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 1: know between this, I got great respect for as a

1042
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: player and and you know we went at it, you

1043
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: know when when we played, and I feel like the

1044
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: respect was mutual that way. But uh, you know, he

1045
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 1: was great. You know, he was another one of these

1046
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: you know, undersized you know guys that he was and

1047
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: knew how to win, He knew how to get it done.

1048
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: He was he was. He was unbelievable. How did you

1049
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: how did you survive in an era? Because as much

1050
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 1: as now, you know, you can't make it as a

1051
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: five eleven six foot guard unless you can switch on

1052
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: to guys. But but there's not you're not you don't

1053
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: have the seven footers that can score the way that

1054
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 1: you guys did, right, and you kind of go through

1055
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 1: the pistons not as much. But obviously you know, the

1056
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 1: Celtics had Parish and then McHale and Ewing and New

1057
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: York and you know, I could kind of go through

1058
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: the list of guys. How did you survive? Like, how

1059
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 1: how does a six foot guards survived back then defensively

1060
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: and and making the league? What? What is the what?

1061
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: What's the secret sauce thing? I think it's just, you know,

1062
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: a toughness. I was fortunate, obviously, that's like you said.

1063
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: I mean at times I had three seven footers on

1064
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 1: the floor with me. So you just you just learned

1065
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: to be smart. And I remember Larry Man, who was

1066
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 1: one of most all time favorite teammates, great shot blocker

1067
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: from the full position. Um. I mean he get pissed

1068
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: at me if I foul a guy after I got beat,

1069
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: you know, because he's like, man, I'm going to block it,

1070
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, don't don't let me go. Man. I mean

1071
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: that's what he gets, you know, the most upset with

1072
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: me or something. But so I just learned to play

1073
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: with my teammates. You know. It's I never looked at defenses.

1074
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 1: I mean I was certainly not locked down defender. But

1075
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: I think I was very fun. I kept guys in

1076
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,800
Speaker 1: front of me. I made guys in my tough shots.

1077
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,399
Speaker 1: I forced, I forced guys to my help. I knew

1078
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: where it was. I think you just have to, you know,

1079
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: be a great team defender. You got to know your strange,

1080
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: your weaknesses and and but more than anything, it's just

1081
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: you know, it was a very physical game back when

1082
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: I played, and so you know, you just had to

1083
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: You knew you were going to get hit. You know,

1084
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: you had to fight through stuff. Uh, when you have

1085
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: guys like you know, Rick Mahorn and Charles Ols was

1086
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: looking to take your head off every time you came

1087
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: into lay. So you know, I think it was just

1088
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't for the meek of heart. Let's put it

1089
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 1: that way. You had to come in there and you

1090
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: had to be willing to the battle and pride every night. Um,

1091
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: late in your career, you uh, Steve Kerr was your

1092
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,959
Speaker 1: backup and he ends up you know, finding a home

1093
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: in Chicago and you know, hitting hitting key shots on

1094
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: kind of that second incarnation of the Bulls? Did you

1095
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: was that? Was that every opportunity for you to I

1096
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to say chase one or

1097
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: be kind of that. I get it always. You know,

1098
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: they had all these shooters, right you had Paxson and

1099
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: b J and then ultimately it was it was Steve Kerr.

1100
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: How come you couldn't get in on that? Um opportunity

1101
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: never really presented itself, you know, through where I was

1102
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: out of contracts of things like that. But I always

1103
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 1: had a lot of respect for those guys because that's

1104
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: that's a hard you know. I remember talking to Steam,

1105
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: you know, many times, because we're you know, we're we're

1106
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: friends and we're improveling. And I've told I don't know

1107
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: how you do it, man. I mean, it's that's hard

1108
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: to play, be out there for the whole game and

1109
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: only get three or four shots, and then the ones

1110
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: you gets you gotta make. You gotta make, yeah, you know.

1111
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's that's your job. And I tell

1112
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: I tell him this this. I'm sorry to interrupt, I

1113
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: tell him this, but um, I think it was Let's see,

1114
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: here is what he was with the Spurs in two

1115
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: thousand two. Um, I went to an NBA Finals game

1116
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: Games six, Game six, and if you remember, he hit

1117
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: three threes I think in the fourth quarter to seal

1118
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: the deal and win. Okay, so he didn't play the

1119
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: first half, and I distinctly remember because I was there

1120
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: and I got my first chance to do national radio

1121
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: for the draft for ESPN right afterwards, and it was

1122
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: that's why I went to the game to meet a

1123
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: guy who was the executive producer. But I remember, like halftime,

1124
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: he comes sprinting out with he and Steve Smith, who

1125
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: were both you know, old heads on that team, and

1126
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 1: he got a bunch of shots up and uh, you know,

1127
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: he comes in the game for Tony Parker was like

1128
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 1: a rookie that year, and he hits three big threes.

1129
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: And I tell people to this day, like we talked

1130
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: about all these other accomplishments guys have done in the finals,

1131
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: and there's incredible things. But to sit there for two

1132
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: hours and not play, and then come in and and

1133
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: guard Jason Kidd at one end and then make make

1134
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: a couple of shots to win a game is among

1135
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: the hardest things you're ever going to do. And like

1136
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: that is and and for a guy like you, like

1137
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: at least Steve had been a bench player most of

1138
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: his NBA career, But for you, that had to be hard.

1139
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: That that that I would I I understand that's a

1140
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: tough adjustment because you've always been after your first year,

1141
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: your rookie year, for the most part, you were a starter,

1142
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: and so there's a rhythm to it. There's a volume

1143
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 1: of shots and touches you get. So it's not his

1144
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: foreign but to sit there for two hours and then hey, dude,

1145
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 1: you gotta make an NBA three, you know, guarded by

1146
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: some guy who's you know, five inches taller than you.

1147
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 1: That's an unbelievable accomplishment. I agree with you, that's one

1148
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: of the hardest things to do in sports. And I

1149
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: tell you know, I was, you know, for all the

1150
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: teams that have worked on you know, I told guys,

1151
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, everybody wants to be a starter, everybody wants

1152
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: to do this. But I mean, you look at certain

1153
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: guys that have made a career out of being able

1154
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: to do those things. I think that's one of the

1155
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 1: hardest things to find, you know what I mean. You

1156
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: know Lou Williams, what he does, you know, I mean

1157
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: coming in off the bench, and you know guys over

1158
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: the years that have been able to play that role.

1159
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: And you know, like those guys, I mean, the way

1160
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: the bull team was set up, I mean, Michael was

1161
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: gonna get thirty five shots gott he's gonna get twenties

1162
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: down the roads. I mean, you know Paxson and b

1163
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 1: J and even those guys, they were gonna get maybe

1164
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: four or five, you know, at best, and you never

1165
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: knew when they were coming. And then like Packed in

1166
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 1: one year hits hits the game winner, and you know

1167
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: in the playoffs and Steve hits one, and you know,

1168
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: to be able to make those shots with without being

1169
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: what I call in rhythm, I mean you hadn't touched

1170
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: the ball for like two quarters, and all of a sudden,

1171
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's five seconds in the game, and Georgie

1172
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: gives it up to you finally, and you gotta make it.

1173
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: Um the best player who gets the least, Like you know,

1174
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,479
Speaker 1: you were a You're an All Star, You're first team

1175
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: on NBA three three, third team on NBA several times over.

1176
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: I think you know you're you're arguably the greatest free

1177
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: throw shooter in NBA history. I think people when you

1178
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: say Mark Price, like, oh he could, he was a

1179
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: great player. You say Isaiah Thomas, he was a great player.

1180
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: Like you go through the list, who's the best player

1181
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 1: that you played against that no one discusses today. I

1182
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: always thought the guy that was really really good and

1183
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: probably gave me as much problem with anybody just because

1184
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: of his size and strength and the way the game

1185
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: was played back there was Barrick Harper. Uh. You know,

1186
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: I just felt he was always a winner. Um, you know,

1187
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: his teams always were we're in the playoffs. He was

1188
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: just he would make big shouts with me, you know.

1189
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: But I always felt like Derek one. And I actually

1190
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: got to the teams within my last season in Orlando

1191
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: that I played, we were with the Magic together. But

1192
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: he was just one of those guys that had a

1193
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: career that most people if you said Barrick Harper, they

1194
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: go he was volubly enough, but he was. He was

1195
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: one of those guys it's really really good. Yeah. He

1196
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: was tough as hell obviously with those those NIX teams.

1197
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: And I played for John McCloud with the with the

1198
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: Dallas Mavericks. Uh back in the day, back in the

1199
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: day as well. You get done, you get done playing

1200
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: and what was your what was your plan? What was

1201
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 1: your You know, your dad was a coach and I

1202
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: know you started you coached high school basketball, you coached

1203
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: in Australia. Was it like I want to coach. What

1204
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 1: was what was your plan when you finished playing? UM,

1205
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,479
Speaker 1: I didn't really have a big plan. My biggest plan

1206
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 1: when I got through playing was I had three small

1207
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: children and I wanted to be be around. Uh. My

1208
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: last four years that I played, I played in four

1209
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 1: different places, and you know, moving is tough at that

1210
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: at that point with three small kids, and I was

1211
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: just wanting to be settled in Atlanta, and UH kind

1212
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 1: of were there for seventeen years. While when my kids

1213
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 1: kind of grew up and I kind of started getting

1214
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: pulled in. You know, basketball kept pulling me back in.

1215
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 1: I started, you know, shooting labs in Swanne, Georgia. Uh,

1216
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: started work with NBA guys. Teams started sending people to

1217
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: work with they're shooting and things like that, and one

1218
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: thing led to another, and you know, I kind of

1219
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: kind I got bad. Bobby Crummens brought me in his

1220
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: last season the tech kind of went in as assistant

1221
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: for him to support him. Uh last year bar a Tech.

1222
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: And you know I started coaching high school and just

1223
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 1: one the lad to another. I never really was speaking

1224
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 1: and then you just kind of with a natural progression,

1225
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: I guess, and a good foot What was it. Uh,

1226
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: you know among the places you worked, you worked for

1227
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: the Bobcats, you work, you work for Jordans for for

1228
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: life to come full circle and to be working in

1229
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: his organization, what was that experience like it was? You

1230
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: know obviously, like I said, I don't think a lot

1231
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: of people knew how far back Michael and I went.

1232
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 1: You know, people knew we played against each other and

1233
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: the NBA level, but as I told you, we get

1234
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: We went all the way back to college, even teammates

1235
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: on the Pan American team. And so when we knew

1236
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 1: each other for a long time and to see him

1237
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 1: as an owner was was was kind of different. Uh,

1238
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: just then our our experiences have been together. But you know,

1239
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 1: you know it was I think he gets, you know,

1240
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 1: unduly criticized sometimes for kind of how things have gone

1241
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: with Charlotte, But you know he was he was great

1242
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: when you know I was there, He click were working

1243
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: for Steve and let us do our job, and you

1244
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: know we got to the playoffs and and uh, and

1245
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: I just think being in a small market and the

1246
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 1: way he goes about things, he has the way he

1247
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: likes to do things, and you know, hopefully they can

1248
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: get it going because I think he you know, he's

1249
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 1: so comp was so competitive as a player. You'd like

1250
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: to see these teams do well. Charlotte. Why did you

1251
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: Why did you take the unc Charlotte. I know they

1252
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: don't like being called unc Charlotte, called Charlotte, but why

1253
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: why take me through the process of why you took

1254
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: the job? Well, I think, uh, you know, the opportunity

1255
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: to be a head coach. I was excited about that. Um,

1256
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, it was right here in Charlotte. It was

1257
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 1: it's kind of right, you know, I was already in Charlotte.

1258
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: It just seemed like, uh, it seemed like the right

1259
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: move to make at the time. And uh, I was

1260
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 1: excited about it. You know, I was grateful for that opportunity.

1261
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: It didn't go uh like I would have liked it to.

1262
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 1: Uh you know, but you know, it wasn't really given

1263
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 1: an opportunity to We wouldn't wanted to do not enough

1264
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: time to do that. But it is what it is.

1265
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: And you know it didn't work out and moved on. Yeah,

1266
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: and and and I mean but I just helped me

1267
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,439
Speaker 1: and understanding because I'm from because it's from Afar, right,

1268
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 1: like you're a person of supreme faith, you know, married

1269
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: three kids, like there's no n c A issues and

1270
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: considering you know, when when you're placed down major he

1271
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 1: had you know, obviously the health issues had caused him

1272
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: to have to have to leave. So it's not like

1273
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: you took over a program that was that was killing it.

1274
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 1: You know, And UM, I guess are you left? Are

1275
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: you left with the feeling that it was fair right,

1276
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:39,920
Speaker 1: that you got a fair shot. Um no, you know,

1277
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 1: like I said, I just think like the situation I

1278
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 1: came into, I could have used more time, but you know,

1279
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: things people have make decisions for different reasons. Uh. You know,

1280
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 1: I really can't go into all the details, but it's uh,

1281
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: you know, it was disappointing because I felt like it

1282
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 1: was a situation that they've given the time. I was

1283
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: excited about what I could build there, but you know

1284
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: I wasn't given that opportunity. And so you move, you

1285
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: move on, move forward. Did it Did it sour you

1286
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 1: on coaching? Uh? No? No? Uh, you know, it was,

1287
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 1: like I said, I learned a lot. I think in

1288
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 1: any situations you go through good good situations are bad situations,

1289
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, you've learned from it. I've always been but

1290
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:33,599
Speaker 1: I've never been one too get down. Like you said,

1291
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: I have have great faith and know that God has

1292
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:40,639
Speaker 1: a plan for for me, and and you move forward

1293
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 1: and trust it. You know, what you've learned, you'll be

1294
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:49,560
Speaker 1: able to use in your next opportunity. Um, why do

1295
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 1: you wear twenty five? Just kind of happened in high school?

1296
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 1: Honestly growing up. I wore fifteen a lot when I

1297
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: was younger, But when I got to high school, some

1298
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 1: already had that, so I took over twenty five. I

1299
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: just kind of made it my own. Uh, you know,

1300
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 1: as unique obviously that I was actually taken a lot

1301
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 1: of people thought I picked when I played in the

1302
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:20,600
Speaker 1: NBA because I was drafted twenty five. But uh, you know,

1303
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 1: I started, you know, in high school, made it, and

1304
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: I just kind of kept it. I made it my

1305
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: own in college and just kept it all the way through.

1306
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 1: Your your daughter Caroline is a great tennis player. What

1307
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 1: what's that like to experience? Because it's it's one thing

1308
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:39,639
Speaker 1: to have, you know, Josh as a player, but it's

1309
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 1: a totally different thing to have one. Tennis is such

1310
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: a hard sport because there's nobody else. You can't blame

1311
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 1: a teammate really a coach or whatever. It's just kind

1312
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: of on you, right, Um. But to be a tennis

1313
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: dad to experience that, what what what? What what was that?

1314
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 1: What's that like? To to raise a young woman who

1315
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: became so accomplished but like you're sitting there and just

1316
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 1: agonizing watching in the stands. Yeah, yeah, tennis is that

1317
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,599
Speaker 1: it's it's a different animal. You're used to the team

1318
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 1: sport and and uh, I mean and my wife was

1319
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: unbelievable during that process because you know, anybody that knows

1320
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:17,719
Speaker 1: anything about high level of tennis, I mean, you really

1321
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: can't go to a regular high school, you know when

1322
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 1: you're top ten in the country in tennis, because you're

1323
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: having to play these tournaments all over the nation. Uh,

1324
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 1: and you're traveling and they're all during the week, so

1325
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 1: you have to home school. And you know, my wife

1326
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 1: was unbelievable that setting all that up and getting her through.

1327
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was it was hard because, you know,

1328
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 1: watching the play because a lot you know, what you

1329
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,679
Speaker 1: realize at early ages is you know, there's no there's

1330
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: no referees, there's no umpires. I mean, these kids are

1331
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 1: out there having to make their own calls, line calls. Uh,

1332
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 1: and having to figure it all out. So it was

1333
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: it was quite a different experience going and watching. But

1334
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: you know, I just always loved watching to play because

1335
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: she was a competitor, you know, and she was no

1336
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,680
Speaker 1: matter what the situation, and she had she had such

1337
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 1: a great attitude when she played, and it was fun

1338
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 1: fun to watch her. Um. Okay, Uh, what's coaching your son? Give?

1339
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: If somebody has UM, if you were gonna advise somebody

1340
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: on coaching your son, what would you tell him, especially

1341
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: as somebody who's like for you, You're a great player,

1342
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,680
Speaker 1: right and like an NBA All Star, First Team All

1343
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 1: n B A. UM. And I'm sure your boys, you know,

1344
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: people tell them how good you were, and they've seen

1345
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 1: how good you get. Good you were? What what how

1346
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:43,640
Speaker 1: do you how do you handle that? Um? You know,

1347
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: both my boys have been great. I mean they know,

1348
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 1: they know about me. They know, I mean everybody tells them,

1349
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 1: and I'm sure there's some built in pressure. I never

1350
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:55,720
Speaker 1: I never put pressure on men. You try to be

1351
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:58,719
Speaker 1: like me. I just wanted him to be the best

1352
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 1: best then they could be. Uh. As far as coaching them,

1353
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 1: I would probably if they could be happy playing for

1354
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 1: somebody else, and going somewhere else. I would probably encourage that.

1355
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: It just no matter what what happens and what what

1356
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 1: you do, I think people treat treat them unfairly, uh,

1357
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:25,200
Speaker 1: no matter how it's handled. You know, people want to

1358
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 1: say you're favoring your child, and I think that's that's

1359
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 1: always a difficult, difficult thing, even if you're not doing it. Uh.

1360
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 1: But you know the good side of it that I

1361
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 1: wouldn't take back for anything if I mean, how many

1362
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 1: how many dads get to kind of hang out with

1363
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 1: their their sons that's while they're in college and and

1364
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 1: be around them and spend time with them, And you know,

1365
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 1: I wouldn't trade that for anything. But it's not the

1366
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 1: easiest situation for for this for the kids, that's for sure.

1367
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 1: It's tough because you know, no matter what people are

1368
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 1: gonna they become escape though in a lot of ways

1369
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:07,639
Speaker 1: the things that they shouldn't be and just because people

1370
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,759
Speaker 1: want to look for somebody to blame if they're not playing.

1371
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 1: There's always a reason, you know the deal. But you

1372
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: know it's uh. I think some people can do it

1373
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 1: and have great experiences and other people have had tough experiences.

1374
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't think it's ever the same for everybody, but

1375
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: it's not always an easy situation to be in. Well,

1376
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: when you when you coached Hudson at at Charlotte, did

1377
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 1: you how do you leave? Do you leave it at

1378
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 1: the gym? Did he stay at home? Did he stay

1379
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 1: did he have his own place? Like? How did you?

1380
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: How did you handle it? Yea, his own place? Uh,

1381
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 1: you know he would stay home some as well. Um,

1382
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 1: you know, we have a great relationship. We didn't talk

1383
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:50,679
Speaker 1: a lot about Jeff Hudson was you know, I mean

1384
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 1: unbelievable teammates. He basically was about winning. I remember when

1385
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: he when he got here at for those reasons, I

1386
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:02,839
Speaker 1: mean his his junior year, he was good enough to

1387
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 1: start for us. But I told him, I just said, hey, look,

1388
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: I need you to come off the bench. This is

1389
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: why I don't want anybody to, you know, think anything

1390
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm giving you any kind of advantage. He's just to

1391
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: deal with. And he was totally cool with all that.

1392
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 1: And uh, all he wanted to do is try to

1393
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 1: help us win games. And and he did that a lot.

1394
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,680
Speaker 1: And so you know, he was just one of he

1395
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:31,759
Speaker 1: never talked about his teammates or what somebody else was doing,

1396
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:33,799
Speaker 1: or you know, it was just when we were family,

1397
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:35,640
Speaker 1: when we were home together, it was just it was

1398
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: a family. It wasn't about player, coach or anything like that.

1399
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:41,639
Speaker 1: But you know, we got to practice in the games

1400
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: that truly, like everybody else, five years from now, what

1401
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 1: are you going to be doing? Um, I don't know.

1402
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 1: I've never been a guy that that that looks too

1403
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:59,760
Speaker 1: far ahead. Kind of take things day by day and

1404
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 1: uh be what opportunities there today and who knows what

1405
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:10,840
Speaker 1: direction I'll be taken in five years. All right, last thing, Um,

1406
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 1: you are, by most people's estimation, the greatest free throw

1407
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 1: shooter in NBA history. Well, at first, what was your routine? Well,

1408
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 1: my routine was, and I think it's it wasn't always

1409
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: the same, you know, as you developed it in college,

1410
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 1: I probably was. I'd have to go back and really

1411
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,840
Speaker 1: look up, but I was probably around it during my

1412
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:41,559
Speaker 1: college career, probably you know, five the hi eighties. Um,

1413
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: so I get to the n d A and obviously

1414
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 1: I get to spend a lot more time working on

1415
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,880
Speaker 1: my craft, and I just had it in my mind.

1416
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 1: I was like, why why can't I be a nine

1417
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 1: pre computer? And so I just began focusing, and you know,

1418
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 1: my routine wasn't anything acular. I would never go to

1419
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,839
Speaker 1: the line before I got the ball in my hands.

1420
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: You know, I see guys do that all the time.

1421
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:08,840
Speaker 1: I would never I stepped back from the free throw

1422
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: line until the left threw me the ball, and then

1423
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 1: I would start my routine. Obviously, I would put my

1424
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:17,679
Speaker 1: right foot on the dot, you know which most most

1425
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: courts have for anybody who played basketball, as with a

1426
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 1: nail hole right there in the middle. It's in the

1427
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:25,040
Speaker 1: middle of the rim. That's where I put my right foot,

1428
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 1: and my left foot would be about solder woods would

1429
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: be back a little bit. I dribbled the ball three times,

1430
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 1: get set and shoot it. Um. That was kind of

1431
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 1: my routine. But I've done it so much, it's spent

1432
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 1: so much time at it that it became just second nature.

1433
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,479
Speaker 1: And then I would start playing games with myself because

1434
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 1: it gets to be overwhelmed and to get in the NBA, well,

1435
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 1: it's hard to keep up with John four hundred or

1436
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 1: you know, four hundred and something. But so I did it,

1437
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 1: and basically ten ten shot increments. You know, I would

1438
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 1: shoot ten at the time, and so if I was

1439
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 1: having to make my first ten, I was ten per ten,

1440
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 1: I would start over, so I knew I had a

1441
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 1: little leeway. I was eight per ten. I knew I

1442
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:11,799
Speaker 1: had to go ten for tim to get up to nineties.

1443
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 1: So I that's kind of the the games I played

1444
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:17,360
Speaker 1: with myself to keep me focused, because I think the

1445
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 1: biggest challenges when you shoot so many and you play

1446
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: so many games is you know, during the first quarter

1447
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:26,639
Speaker 1: or whatever, it's easy to be not quite as focused

1448
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: as you need to be. I really tried to hone

1449
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:33,080
Speaker 1: in on that, did you above the front of the rim,

1450
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 1: back of the rim? Like, what do you did? You

1451
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:36,559
Speaker 1: just look at the hoop? Did you have a spot

1452
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 1: that you picked out to aim it? Yeah, front of

1453
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: the round. I was the front of the round. I

1454
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 1: tried to just drop it in over the front of

1455
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 1: the rim. Um. I'm not a big sticker on that

1456
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: when I teach some guys or background guys, but you know,

1457
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 1: be consistent with what you do. Um, okay, I live.

1458
01:17:57,320 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: When I said last thing one, here's one thing that

1459
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 1: you kind of forgot. I brought up to a couple

1460
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: of my friends the other day, and that that never

1461
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 1: gets discussed your freshman year at Georgia Tech, there was

1462
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 1: a three point line. It was seventeen ft nine inches

1463
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:18,680
Speaker 1: and you shot from three. So for people don't remember, right,

1464
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,720
Speaker 1: it was early eighties, two years only see play. I

1465
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 1: believe was there are three point line seventy nine that's

1466
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: inside the what's now the high school line, and I

1467
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:29,840
Speaker 1: mean you have that's why you have a twenty game.

1468
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:33,759
Speaker 1: You're a freshman year, like, that's an easy shot for you. Um,

1469
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 1: are you the reason that the a CEC is like, no,

1470
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 1: we're not doing I believe that's true. Uh, I'm always

1471
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:45,320
Speaker 1: kind of half joking. We said that was the Mark

1472
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 1: Price rule. I agree, I totally agree. That's how I

1473
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:50,680
Speaker 1: remember it was. They were like, this is this is

1474
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 1: not we week, this is too easy for him. Yeah,

1475
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:56,600
Speaker 1: I mean we were the first conference to experiment with

1476
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 1: the three point line, and it was it was Ridicut

1477
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 1: you short and uh yeah, I let the league in scoring.

1478
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:09,480
Speaker 1: I beat Jordan now and it was taken out obviously

1479
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 1: the year I left Georgia Tech and c double puts

1480
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 1: the three point line man everybody and the guy who

1481
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 1: had a great career because of it, Steve Alford, was

1482
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 1: the guy who was selected on the Olympic team instead

1483
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 1: of you. I don't I don't want to need to

1484
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:25,439
Speaker 1: bring up Beach with Alford. I just I just wanted

1485
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 1: to just want to bring that, bring that up. The

1486
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 1: second you leave, they put it back in and Alfred

1487
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:34,599
Speaker 1: ends up benefiting from it. That's right, that's right. If

1488
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:37,600
Speaker 1: I took you out, I take you out of the conversation.

1489
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:45,840
Speaker 1: The best shooter you've ever seen is who? Oh man? Uh,

1490
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of good ones. Uh.

1491
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 1: I think there's different ways of looking at it. I

1492
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 1: think just from a pure like end game like getting

1493
01:19:57,200 --> 01:19:59,760
Speaker 1: up a bunch of you know, a guy that is

1494
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 1: out there a lot, I think you had a lot

1495
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 1: of good specialty shooters, guys like curR and you know

1496
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 1: guys like that Legler, etcetera, all those kind of all

1497
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:13,719
Speaker 1: those kind of guys. But I think I would probably

1498
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 1: put Larry Bird up there just from a game standpoint.

1499
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: I mean, that guy get hit and make himny shots.

1500
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 1: Yeah from anywhere. Uh. He was just incredible. Yeah. And

1501
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,320
Speaker 1: that's not even talking about his passing, his rebounding, his

1502
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 1: feel was was was and his toughness or other worldly. Oh, Mark, Mark,

1503
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 1: you've been more than generous with your time. I cannot

1504
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 1: tell you how much it means to me, how much

1505
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:46,679
Speaker 1: your dad meant to me. I you know, sadly when

1506
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 1: he passed, it was right after coaching me in the

1507
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 1: USB L with the storm and getting to spend two

1508
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 1: months on the road to Dodge City to Salina, Kansas,

1509
01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 1: to Florida, UH in basketball and telling old stories with him.

1510
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:06,680
Speaker 1: Was was incredible experience and obviously just it was we

1511
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:11,560
Speaker 1: were all crestfallen when when when he passed. But um,

1512
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 1: he raised a couple of incredible boys, and Brent was

1513
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:17,320
Speaker 1: always kind to me, and you've been so nice with

1514
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 1: your time. Please stay as much involved in basketball as possible,

1515
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:24,439
Speaker 1: because you guys have so much knowledge to give the

1516
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 1: world that just don't let the don't let the the

1517
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 1: the some of the some of the negative ever chase

1518
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 1: you away from this game because you've got you got

1519
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: so much to give. And I really appreciate you joining me. Well,

1520
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,599
Speaker 1: appreciate appreciate you having me on. It's always good talking

1521
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 1: to you. Be sure to catch the live edition of

1522
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 1: The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter

1523
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:50,440
Speaker 1: noon Pacific. We'll review episode three, Episode three and episode

1524
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 1: four of the last dance next week. My thanks to

1525
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:55,639
Speaker 1: Mark Price, and my thanks to Listen for you listening

1526
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 1: to me. I'm Doug Gottlieb in This Is All Ball