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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome.

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Speaker 2: I'm my favorite murder that's Georgia Heartstar.

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Speaker 1: That's Karen Kilgarith, and we're here to present some things

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Speaker 1: to your real quick.

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Speaker 2: Real quick. You wanted to tell you a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be fast, like an hour and fifty

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Speaker 1: two minutes.

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Speaker 2: I'll get you out of here, in and out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah boom, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I have to pull this out immediately because we

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Speaker 2: put lotion on before every show. It's like our ritual,

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Speaker 2: it's our rich And I was putting my nod on.

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Speaker 2: I meant to tell you that I got my nails

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Speaker 2: done by a murderino today. This murderina named Jess. She

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Speaker 2: was awesome, old school murderino. And then I just realized

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Speaker 2: as I was putting lotion on that I forgot to

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Speaker 2: put my fucking wedding ring back on.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean it's at the No?

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Speaker 2: No, no, it's at my house. I took it off

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Speaker 2: of my house, thank god. But I just was like,

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Speaker 2: if I don't have a wedding ring on and this

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Speaker 2: goes up, are going to be like are they okay?

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Speaker 1: The dms are going to start? Yeah, and Peele are

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Speaker 1: gonna be a what's up girl?

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Speaker 2: Plus, it looks like Vince left for fucking WrestleMania this morning.

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Speaker 2: It looks like I'm my husband's gone take off my

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Speaker 2: ring for the weekend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's too many coincidences, it is, I'm calling him now.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't see her anywhere specifically, but

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Speaker 1: I know I can feel it.

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Speaker 2: Hashtag what's even happening? That ring on that rist one?

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Speaker 2: But he did give me this one too, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I did what that came on purpose? It has

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Speaker 2: to do with my story, so you do.

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Speaker 1: There, we go there, it's all day.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I almost got a.

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Speaker 1: Divorce just there out of nowhere, really quick before the

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Speaker 1: show started. Divorce it could be. I mean I think

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Speaker 1: it has been. It must be in the past, called Utah.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's funny. I was thinking about when we

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Speaker 1: were in Austin for the iHeartRadio Awards and a girl

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Speaker 1: came up to us afterwards and was just saying hi,

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Speaker 1: and then said, I'm the one that you called a

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Speaker 1: bitch on cameo what remember that? I could have sworn

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Speaker 1: you were standing next to me. A girl came up

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Speaker 1: and was like, ha ha ha I spent two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty dollars on cameo for you to tell my

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Speaker 1: friend happy birthday or something like that. And she goes

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Speaker 1: and you called me a stupid bitch. And then I

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Speaker 1: never got my cameo. And I was like, we're not

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Speaker 1: on cameo. We're not on cameo.

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Speaker 2: You're not on cameo.

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Speaker 1: No, we've never been, don't ever.

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Speaker 2: So she gave her money to some fucking people pretending

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Speaker 2: to be us.

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Speaker 1: Not only pretending to be us, but insulting people after

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Speaker 1: they give him their money.

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Speaker 2: Let's look it up right now. So, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I think I have cameos if you can look it up.

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Speaker 2: Who did I get to do a cameo once?

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Speaker 1: Well, you got all my Kevin? Is it Kevin Hart?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, that's a comedian, the wrestler, the wrestler.

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Speaker 2: Guy, Kevin Vaughan Air.

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Speaker 1: No, no, it's the guy that was on Detroiter's that

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Speaker 1: plays Tim Robbins's dad.

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Speaker 2: Oh, he was a stripper in the strip.

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Speaker 1: Club in Magic Mike, Magic Mike. That's it, big fan.

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Speaker 1: I've gotten two cameos from him. It's from Georgia and Vince.

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Speaker 2: Kevin Nash. Yes, Kevin Nash, Kevin Nash. Okay, here's people

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Speaker 2: are also asking why is my favorite word to rein

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Speaker 2: canceled our? Karen and George is still friends?

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Speaker 1: Who is?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 1: No, that's a fan cult video right there. We can

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Speaker 1: answer that. We will answer those questions, but it's going

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Speaker 1: to be behind a paywall.

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Speaker 2: I don't know it does. Nothing's coming up, but there

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Speaker 2: are not on hany that's so horrible. I know.

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Speaker 1: There's also a chance that girl mistook me for somebody

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Speaker 1: else and she was like, oh I meant the Giggly

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Speaker 1: Squad girls or something like you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Oh I blessed today we get fucking mixed up for

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Speaker 2: the Ghiggly Squad girls, Like.

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Speaker 1: Please, can I get We're forty years younger the Giggly Squad?

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Speaker 1: You know what's going on?

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Speaker 2: Aunties? Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Nora actually told me that's her favorite podcast and I

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Speaker 1: just stared into her face. So what am I supposed

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Speaker 1: to do here? Now?

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Speaker 2: That's no.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody gets to like what they want, but please

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Speaker 1: don't pay money.

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Speaker 2: For Also, we would never charge two hundred fifty dollars

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Speaker 2: to hear us f This is free. This is free here.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, Happy birthday, Ashley, Happy birthday, Ashley. What Ashley too?

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Speaker 2: I get what we're doing. Ok Ashley with the e

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Speaker 2: e e e y. Do you have anything? Did you

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Speaker 2: see the Baby Jessica thing? Yes, Baby Jessica who you covered?

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Speaker 1: Say that show title?

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Speaker 2: In episode two two one, Symbolic Violins, who was down

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Speaker 2: a well when she was a baby, was arrested on

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Speaker 2: assault charges.

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Speaker 1: No fun, no fun? Did you already watch trust Me

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Speaker 1: The Lost Prophet.

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Speaker 2: We're in the middle of it right now.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I have to start it, but everyone keeps talking

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Speaker 1: to me about it, where I'm just like, I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, I have.

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Speaker 2: To watch it. Did you watch the movie? It's called

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Speaker 2: The Dramas and Aya and Robert Patterson is that his name?

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Speaker 1: Pattinson whatever?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, no, you don't see that. I'm surprised.

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Speaker 1: No, I haven't gone to the movie since so long.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's like the first time I want to go

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Speaker 2: to the movie in ages because there's a spoiler, and

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Speaker 2: I know by the time it goes on streaming, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to have heard it. Yes, and I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: avoid it, but I just need to go see it.

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Speaker 1: That's a big part of movies. You just want to

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Speaker 1: know first.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to know like authentically, not like

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Speaker 2: reading a fucking New York Post or something.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the cinema has been ruined in many ways for

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Speaker 1: all of us, but that way where I watch people

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Speaker 1: or read people fighting about it and all these opinions,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm like, well, I don't want to have

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Speaker 1: any of these opinions. I'll have a brand new opinion.

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Speaker 1: And then it's like what Then you go to the

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Speaker 1: movies and you're doing a whole different thing. It's such

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Speaker 1: an irritating way to have preprocessed entertainment.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank god there's alcohol in theaters now, because true,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how other people do it. It's two

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Speaker 2: and a half fucking hours just sitting there without a

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Speaker 2: bud Ca soda. Please.

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Speaker 1: You know what I did see recently, Johnny Pemberton is

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Speaker 1: the star of a movie. I think it's called Mermaid, Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it's Indy, and we went to see it. It was

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Speaker 1: like its first showing in LA Is It Great? It

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Speaker 1: was so I adored Johnny as a comedian, to see

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Speaker 1: him as a kind of serious kind of comedy because

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Speaker 1: it's a creepy movie. It's a lot going on. Definitely

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Speaker 1: worth the watch. But to watch Johnny be like the

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Speaker 1: leading man is amazing.

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Speaker 2: Giding a man who looks twenty. It's like the best

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: And so many people love him from Fallout, people love

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Speaker 1: him from all kinds of stuff. That he's already done everything,

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Speaker 1: he's been in so many things.

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Speaker 2: That's really exciting. Yeah, Mermaid, why am I playing fitsy

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Speaker 2: with you? Should we do?

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Speaker 1: You need more room over there?

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Speaker 2: And that means we should get started.

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Speaker 1: That's probably that's you signaling to me under the table.

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Speaker 2: Oh hey, we have a podcast network. It's called Exactly

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Speaker 2: Right Media.

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Speaker 1: It's correct, not slip your mind.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Here's some highlights from it over on our podcast. Then Knife,

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Speaker 1: Hannah and Patia revisit the nineteen ninety five murder of

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Speaker 1: twenty one year old Jennifer Evans in Virginia Beach, and

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Speaker 1: then Advocate Aaron Lopman joins them to walk through Dusty

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Speaker 1: Turner's case and all the questions surrounding his conviction.

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Speaker 2: And then this week on Brief Recess It's a Hopecore episode,

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Speaker 2: Michael and Melissa reveal they share a birthday week and

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Speaker 2: they didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: No, It's like, I just love a big He's an

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Speaker 1: immigration lawyer, literally fighting ice in the courts every day.

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Speaker 1: And then they're like, you know what, we have the

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Speaker 1: same birthday week. It's like, yep, get it where you can.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely and Seth Porge's director of Class Action Park, Oh

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Speaker 2: my god. It was such a good documentary. And the

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Speaker 2: upcoming Santa Con documentary returns to discuss news that the

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Speaker 2: founder of Santa Con was charged with federal wire fraud

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Speaker 2: for stealing over one million dollars from the organization. Where

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Speaker 2: did they get one million dollars from?

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Speaker 1: What organization? Isn't the whole thing disorganization?

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Speaker 2: I think they get money to give presents to children

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Speaker 2: in need.

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Speaker 1: I hope so.

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Speaker 2: But no, because he took all that money and got.

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Speaker 1: Posted drunk allegedly and then harassed the citizens of New

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Speaker 1: York exactly. Okay. Then, of course, Disgraceland our newest hit podcast,

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Speaker 1: So exciting to have Jake Brennan here with us. They're

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Speaker 1: back this week covering Depeche Mode. Jake tells the story

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Speaker 1: of excess addiction and the West Hollywood overdose that left

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Speaker 1: front man David Kahan clinically dead before the band's unlikely resurrection.

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Speaker 2: I love this, like just he does these like snippets

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Speaker 2: of time about the band. It's not the history from

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Speaker 2: start to finish. It's just like, here's what life was

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Speaker 2: like during this time when whatever happened happened with them. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's so fucking fascinating.

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Speaker 1: It's such good writing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, such good writing. And then we have a little

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Speaker 2: treet for you. The Disgraceland feed drop hits the MFM feed.

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Speaker 2: So if you haven't listened to Disgraceland yet, we're making

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Speaker 2: it easy for you.

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Speaker 1: Disgraceland, Disgraceland, Disgraceland Yet, We're making.

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Speaker 2: It easy for you. But also get your shit together

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Speaker 2: and please go follow and rate, review, subscribe to Disgraceland.

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Speaker 2: And it's celebrity spin off Hollywoodland. What are you doing, Hollywoodland.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to upstage you as you just break your

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Speaker 1: shit over there. I literally tried to move this very

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Speaker 1: subtly and yanked this off over on Hollywood Land. Jake

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Speaker 1: looks at Sigourney Weaver through a very strange and unsettling lens.

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Speaker 1: He's telling the story of how one death Row inmate

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Speaker 1: came to see her as a goddess sent to battle evil.

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Speaker 2: Wow, not a hard thing to like assumption to jump to.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's not true, but it's scary.

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Speaker 1: It's very scary. Yeah, all right, well you go first,

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Speaker 1: I go first, right, So I'm going to turn it

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Speaker 1: around on you.

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Speaker 2: Oh shit.

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Speaker 1: The story I'm doing is one of the most notorious

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Speaker 1: cold cases in recent history.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: It begins with the twenty ten disappearance of a young

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Speaker 1: woman named Shannon Gilbert. Police begin to search for her

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Speaker 1: on the beach side roadway where she's last seen, and

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Speaker 1: that's when they begin to find one horrific discovery after another.

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Speaker 1: The remains of ten women are found between December twenty

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Speaker 1: ten and April twenty eleven, setting off a chain of

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Speaker 1: events that, now more than fifteen years later, has finally

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Speaker 1: been solved. This is the story of the Gilgo Coach murderer. Shit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: neither rest have ever done it. We've never done it.

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Speaker 1: And when I was talking to Molly about it, our producer,

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Speaker 1: and we're like, do you think Maren could turn this

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Speaker 1: around where we could do it and try to be

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Speaker 1: timely because all of this is happening right now. Maren's like,

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Speaker 1: were you planning on covering this before it got solved?

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Speaker 2: Like it wasn't on your list at all?

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Speaker 1: No, yeah, I'm no, same, not on my list because

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Speaker 1: to me it felt like, and especially all the things

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Speaker 1: I've seen of it over the years, it's just like, well,

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Speaker 1: we know this is where all these bodies have been found, right,

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Speaker 1: and that's about it totally, and like we have some

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Speaker 1: suspects and we have some ideas, and then of course

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Speaker 1: there was like, well, let's get into it, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: I was literally just going to start talking it out

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Speaker 1: and then repeat it later. But thanks Maren, our researcher

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Speaker 1: for turning it around and always doing such an amazing

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Speaker 1: job and that idea, it's like, wait, can we this

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Speaker 1: is breaking news? Can we actually start talking?

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Speaker 2: Hey, what are you doing this week? Can you just

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Speaker 2: do this? Yeah? Marin and Ali my god, yeah, the best.

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Speaker 1: Our researchers on the show are the best in the

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Speaker 1: absolutely so. The main source used in this story today

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Speaker 1: is the writing of journalist Robert Kolker, who has reported

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Speaker 1: extensively on this case. He actually published a book about

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Speaker 1: it called Lost Girls, and also he did a deep

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Speaker 1: dive in the New York Times magazine called the Botched

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Speaker 1: Hunt for the Gilgo Beach Killer, and then the rest

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Speaker 1: of the sources are in our show notes. We start

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Speaker 1: on the early morning of May one, twenty ten, and

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Speaker 1: Shannon Gilbert is in a car headed for Long Island.

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Speaker 1: She is just twenty three years old, but she's been

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Speaker 1: through a lot. She's endured some very difficult things in

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Speaker 1: her childhood, including having to go to foster care at

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Speaker 1: one point. But Shannon's friends remember her as a radiant,

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Speaker 1: popular girl with undeniable talent, because going through hard stuff

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Speaker 1: in life also really galvanizes you totally and who you are.

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Speaker 1: And the thing I'd never heard about Shannon before is

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Speaker 1: that Shannon can really sing.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Reporter Robert Kolker describes her as having a quote soulful

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Speaker 1: voice that gave some of her friend's chills and made

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Speaker 1: others cry wow. So she's just a good singer. In

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Speaker 1: eighth grade, she was cast as Miss Hannigan in her

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Speaker 1: school's production of Annie, and that was a life changing

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Speaker 1: experience for her. She realizes she wants to be a

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Speaker 1: star after she graduates from high school. She does try

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Speaker 1: to make that dream come true, but as many of

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Speaker 1: us know, it's very hard to make a living when

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Speaker 1: that is what your goal is. So Shannon sometimes earns

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Speaker 1: money through sex work, and she advertises as an escort

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Speaker 1: on Craigslist and in Backpage. So when she gets a booking,

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Speaker 1: typically she'll use a mail driver to take her to

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Speaker 1: the appointments, both for transportation and for her personal safety,

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Speaker 1: and so that's what she does on May first, twenty ten.

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Speaker 1: Her driver is a man who she's not only worked

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Speaker 1: with before, but she considers a friend. His name's Michael Pack.

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Speaker 1: He picks her up. They head down Ocean Parkway, which

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Speaker 1: is that long road that runs right next to the

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Speaker 1: ocean and spans a very long swath of southern Long Island.

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Speaker 1: Parts of Ocean Parkway are very dark at night, except

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Speaker 1: for like the cars coming in the other direction. Shannon's driver, Michael,

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Speaker 1: pulls off the road into a gated community in Oa Beach.

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Speaker 1: As Shannon disappears into our client's home. The driver waits

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Speaker 1: outside in the car, and everything is basically routine until

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Speaker 1: around five am. Also, I just say the client is

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Speaker 1: a man named Joseph Brewer. I think it's important to

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Speaker 1: start talking about the men that are involved in these cases.

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Speaker 1: It's weird because I just caught myself doing that where

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, we don't have to get into that,

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Speaker 1: but we're getting into Shannon's whole life. So Joseph Brewer

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Speaker 1: is in this too, and that should be I think standard.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot we don't and may never know

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Speaker 1: about what happened that night, But what we do know

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Speaker 1: is that at one point, around five am, Shannon calls

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Speaker 1: nine to one to one and she sounds terrified and disoriented.

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Speaker 1: She can't explain where she is or what's happening to her.

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Speaker 1: She just says, someone's trying to kill her. God.

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Speaker 2: This is the most chilling, most chilling part, But also

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Speaker 2: none of this story I feel like would have gotten

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Speaker 2: out there if this weird chilling thing hadn't happened. Almost exactly.

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Speaker 2: It made people pay attention to what was already going

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Speaker 2: on for years.

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Speaker 1: Yes, a horrible rock being moved, and this victim who

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Speaker 1: her death, while entirely senseless, actually brings the authorities to

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Speaker 1: all of these other cold cases that are just there,

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Speaker 1: like just right there. So the nine to one one

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Speaker 1: recording of the call has been released since you can

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Speaker 1: listen to it, and on it you can hear both

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Speaker 1: Joseph Burah and Michael Pack talking to Shannon in the background,

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Speaker 1: but it's hard to make out or make sense of

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Speaker 1: what's going on. What we know from here is based

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Speaker 1: on witness statements. Shannon's client says that she suddenly started

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Speaker 1: to panic when she was in his house. He went

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Speaker 1: outside to ask the driver for help getting her out

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Speaker 1: of the house, getting her to leave, and then the

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Speaker 1: driver and the client both tried to calm her down

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Speaker 1: while still inside the house, with the goal of basically

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Speaker 1: trying to get her into the car, but because Shannon

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Speaker 1: is so terrified, it doesn't work, and after a few minutes,

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Speaker 1: her driver states that he goes back to the car,

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Speaker 1: unsure of what to do, presumably, and that's when he

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Speaker 1: watches Shannon bolt out of this house and sprint into

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Speaker 1: the darkness. What we do know now is that she

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Speaker 1: went and knocked on some neighbor's doors, and actually at

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Speaker 1: least one of those neighbors brought her inside, but then

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Speaker 1: she was still so freaked out. And the thing I

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Speaker 1: keep thinking of this is all theory and opinion, but

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Speaker 1: what I keep thinking of is that she got drugged

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Speaker 1: ket I mean ketamine.

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Speaker 2: Will fucking do that to you immediately, right, or.

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Speaker 1: Just like any drug worst that you think you're here

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Speaker 1: and you're handling things this way and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden you know it's not good and you're not in control.

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Speaker 2: We've all been there with drugs that we knew we took.

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Speaker 2: We freaked the fuck out. Yeah, and then not knowing

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Speaker 2: that you took them. That's like ten.

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Speaker 1: Times worse being drugs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So being drugged, yeah, I also know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, being drug So Michael Pack says he tries to

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Speaker 1: find her. He drives around for a while looking for her.

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Speaker 1: He never finds her, so he goes home, assuming she

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Speaker 1: just find a way to get back to New Jersey herself,

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Speaker 1: not the job of a driver in that scenario. The

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Speaker 1: problem is Shannon never finds her way back to New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: and her worried boyfriend there quickly reaches out to the driver.

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Speaker 1: He admits that he left Long Island without her. The

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Speaker 1: two reportedly call around to different precincts. No one's seen her,

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Speaker 1: so her boyfriend files a missing person's report and that's it. Basically,

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Speaker 1: Shannon's case gets almost no media attention. As author Robert

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Speaker 1: Kolker writes, quote a missing sex worker rarely does. So

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Speaker 1: now we're back on Long Island and investigators begin searching

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Speaker 1: for Shannon where she was last seen, including the coastal

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Speaker 1: stretch off Ocean Parkway along Oak Beach and nearby Gilgo Beach.

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Speaker 1: The terrain is marshy and uneven, and because it's spring

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Speaker 1: turning to summer, it's also crawling with poison ivy and

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Speaker 1: very thick brambles, very hard to search.

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Speaker 2: Looks very swampy like Florida e right, and.

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Speaker 1: It's a part of beach where it truly is like

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Speaker 1: there's houses, there's ocean park, there's these brambles, sand and

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Speaker 1: the ocean right there. So the police continue the search

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Speaker 1: throughout the year. I don't know how often, but it

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Speaker 1: does continue. And then as falterned to winter, that overgrowth

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Speaker 1: is finally less thick, and on December eleventh, seven months

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Speaker 1: after Shannon was last seen, police dogs hit on human remains.

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Speaker 1: They've found these remains hidden deep in the brambles, bound

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Speaker 1: with strips of burlap. Two days later, they find three

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Speaker 1: more burlap bound sets of remains. So they basically stumble

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Speaker 1: upon stumble upon a graveyard that they are there just

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Speaker 1: to get additional evidence for the first remains, and then

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Speaker 1: it's another and another, and they're bound the same way

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Speaker 1: with the same material, same size of assuming woman. I mean, like, yeah, horrifying.

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Speaker 1: None of the remains belong to Shannon Gilbert. When the

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Speaker 1: DNA tests come back, investigators identify twenty four year old

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Speaker 1: Melissa Barthelemy, who had been missing for over a year.

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Speaker 1: She'd gone missing in two thousand and nine, last seen

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Speaker 1: at her apartment in the Bronx, and like Shannon, she

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Speaker 1: was ambitious. She dreamed of opening her own hair salon.

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Speaker 1: She's a really talented hairdresser. She did sex work to

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Speaker 1: pay the bills. Melissa was very close with her family,

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Speaker 1: who clearly loved her very much. In fact, in July

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and nine, right before she went missing,

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Speaker 1: her little sister Amanda was planning to come and visit

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Speaker 1: her in New York. In a July eleventh phone call,

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Speaker 1: they talked through Amanda's upcoming trip, and the next day,

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Speaker 1: July twelfth, Melissa set out to meet a client on

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Speaker 1: Long Island, and she was never seen again. Melissa's disappearance

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Speaker 1: devastated her family, and her sister Amanda once said quote,

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Speaker 1: she was not only my blood sister. She was my

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Speaker 1: soul sister, so they were very close obviously.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Another body identified as twenty five year old Maureen Brainerd

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Speaker 1: Barnes of Norwich, Connecticut. She was reported missing in July

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and seven, and she had last been

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Speaker 1: seen in New York City. Her loved ones remember her

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00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,880
Speaker 1: as being creative, courageous, and gifted with words. At times

402
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Speaker 1: she did sex work to pay family bills, but what

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Speaker 1: she really loved was writing poetry, and she loved to

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00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,119
Speaker 1: write rap lyrics. She had two children, and her daughter, Nicolette,

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Speaker 1: who's now an adult, has said that losing her mom

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Speaker 1: quote drastically changed the trajectory of my life. There were

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Speaker 1: countless times I needed her and she was not there.

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Speaker 1: I remember she read to me every night, and now

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Speaker 1: I can no longer remember the sound of her voice.

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Speaker 2: God hard. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The next remains to be identified belonged to twenty two

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Speaker 1: year old Megan Waterman of Scarborough, Maine. Her family has

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Speaker 1: said that they believe she was forced into sex work.

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Speaker 1: Author Robert Kolker reports Megan's boyfriend, the man she considered

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Speaker 1: the love of her life, was seen by others as quote,

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Speaker 1: her pimp and abuser sad she sometimes saw clients in

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Speaker 1: New York. She was last seen leaving a Long Island

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Speaker 1: hotel in June of twenty ten, presumably to meet a

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Speaker 1: client back home and Maine. Meghan has a young daughter

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Speaker 1: named Lily, who she loved very much. Megan's been called

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Speaker 1: a quote, fun, caring and loving mom. Lily's in her

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Speaker 1: teens now, and has talked about the pain of losing

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Speaker 1: her mother, saying quote, I still wonder what her voice

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Speaker 1: sounded like, or her laugh. I do remember missing her

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Speaker 1: and always wondering when she was coming back. I don't

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Speaker 1: wish this on anyone, the pain I went through or

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Speaker 1: go through on top of that, because what it is

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Speaker 1: getting me. Yeah, when your mom dies, especially when you're young,

429
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Speaker 1: it's devastating, and for young girls it's like, yes, it's

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Speaker 1: foundationally devastating, definitely. And then the idea that anybody would

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Speaker 1: treat your mom's death like it was less important right

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Speaker 1: than anybody else's deserved it too.

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Speaker 2: People would like that's what people say, yes, And to

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Speaker 2: feel that and not care as much about your own

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Speaker 2: mother that that's devastating.

436
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: It's just the authority more cops moralizing this doesn't matter

437
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 1: this does, and that's what this story is all about

438
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, is people thinking that

439
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,880
Speaker 1: they can classify human beings that way. The final set

440
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: of remains are identified as those of twenty seven year

441
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 1: old Amber Costello, who lived in West Babylon, New York

442
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: at the time of her disappearance in September twenty ten,

443
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: so it was just months after Megan Waterman went missing,

444
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,719
Speaker 1: and Amber struggled with addiction, so she sometimes picked up

445
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: sex work. She was last seen leaving her apartment to

446
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 1: get picked up by a client, and on her way

447
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: out the door, she tells her roommate quote, if my

448
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: sister calls, tell her I love her. So these four women, Melissa, Maureen,

449
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: Meghan and Amber become known as the Gilgo for and

450
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 1: because of the similarities there remains being found in the

451
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 1: same area wrapped in burlap, the use of online escort ads,

452
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: and the fact that they were all young, very petite,

453
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,199
Speaker 1: white women, many people assume that a single person is

454
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: responsible for their murders. The serial killer theories start immediately

455
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: and with good reason, but the Suffolk County Police, who

456
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: have the jurisdiction over this case, don't publicly confirm this.

457
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 1: At first, the commissioner at the time tells the press, quote,

458
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to think we have a Jack

459
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 1: the Ripper running around Suffa County with blood dripping from

460
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: a knife. God forbid.

461
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because then we won't have tourists coming.

462
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's yeah, we're stuck in jaws for the

463
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: rest of our lives. And it's instead it's like, no,

464
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: get on this right now and solve it right now.

465
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: Statements like this, of course, don't sit well with the victims' families,

466
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,479
Speaker 1: and they, along with the public, start connecting the dots

467
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 1: that maybe there is a Long Island serial killer and

468
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: that is what's being discovered. But if you know anything

469
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: about this case, you've already read about the widely reported

470
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: procedural missteps at the Suffa County Police Department. Despite having

471
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: access to cell phone and internet data. Because the victims

472
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: use their phones to contact their clients, statements from the

473
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: people who knew these women, among many other leads to

474
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: chase the police just somehow don't initially identify any suspects

475
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: or persons of interest at.

476
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 2: All, like talk to all the sex offenders in the area,

477
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, for.

478
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: Basics or how about just the sex clients in the area.

479
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: Go go to those rich people neighborhoods and say who

480
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 1: among you are hiring and we need to talk to

481
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: you in a serious way. But god forbid, it's a

482
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: professional man that gets questioned. In fact, they turned down

483
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: the FBI's help.

484
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: Don't ever do that.

485
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: Reporting suggests that the Suffolk Police had serious internal corruption

486
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: and misconduct issues at the time. Author Robert Kolker describes

487
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: the department as being in a quote ethical free fall.

488
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: This may have hampered, if not totally frozen, any real

489
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: investigating into these deaths, as implicit biases around sex workers

490
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: and what they do and do not deserve go completely unchecked.

491
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: And that's not to say that there weren't people that

492
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: were there. Like if they were still looking for her

493
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 1: from the beginning of twenty ten until the winter, then

494
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: someone cared enough to keep on going back out there, right,

495
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: that definitely was happening. But when the system is set

496
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: up like that.

497
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a chance.

498
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: So per Kulker's reporting, at one point, this is going

499
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: to make you very mad, like it made me. The

500
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: then chief of detectives publicly victim blames the Gilgo for

501
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: pointing out that they were quote willing to get into

502
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: a car with a stranger. Fuck youw that's called uber

503
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: You fucking do it every goddamn day.

504
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

505
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: He also called it a quote consolation that the killer

506
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: was targeting a specific group of people, sex workers, and

507
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: not the general public.

508
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

509
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's an infuriating attitude for local law enforcement to display,

510
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: especially when these homicides fit into an even larger pattern

511
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: of violence and murder on Long Island. Several sets of

512
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: human remains have been discovered in this area going back

513
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: to the mid nineties. Holy it's not new, yeah, And

514
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: they include twenty year old Jessica Taylor of New York City,

515
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: whose remains were discovered in Manorville in July of two

516
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: thousand and three. She had gone missing from the Port

517
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: Authority bus terminal in Manhattan days before the discovery of

518
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: her body, and twenty four year old Valerie mac of Philadelphia,

519
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: who disappeared in the year two thousand. Her remains were

520
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: discovered eleven years later, also in Manorville. Thirty four year

521
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: old New Yorker Karen Regatta's remains are first discovered on

522
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: nearby Fire Island in nineteen ninety six, which is the

523
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: same year she went missing. And the remains of twenty

524
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: eight year old Sondra Castilla, who's a native of Trinidad

525
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: and Tobago living in New York City, are also ideed,

526
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: and she was found in Southampton in nineteen ninety three.

527
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: She had vanished only days earlier. So Sondra Castilla was

528
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: one of the first of these bodies, and then it just.

529
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: Kept happening, right, I mean, everyone after that could have

530
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: been saved if there had been enough of a one

531
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: would think.

532
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: So we don't know much about those women. Authorities have

533
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: alleged that Jessica, Valerie and Karen worked at escorts, with

534
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: police stopping short of describing Sondra as doing the same

535
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: and instead calling her lifestyle quote substantially similar to that

536
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: of a sex workers, whatever that means. Obviously, there's much

537
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: more to these people than the jobs that they paid

538
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: the bills with. They all had people in their lives

539
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: who cared about them and wondered what happened to them. Fortunately,

540
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: the Suffolk County Police Department does experience some serious overhauling

541
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: in the coming years, and as investigators continue working the

542
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: Gilgo four case, they begin to find even more remains

543
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: off of Ocean Parkway. I mean, that's it's fucking crazy. Yeah,

544
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: the amount of bodies and the idea that anyone would

545
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: let anybody say no thanks FBI, and that's what's happening.

546
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 2: You want to be like, oh, you're so what's it

547
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: called sure of yourself that you don't think you need them?

548
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: But no, it's actually you're corrupt and you don't want

549
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: them to figure that out. That's the real fucking thing.

550
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 2: That's why corruption is so fucked up where it's I mean,

551
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: obviously it is, but also.

552
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: It keeps out like any possibility of justice.

553
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: Guys, you guys, why do we have to keep doing

554
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: this podcast? Can't we run out? Fucking stories? Please?

555
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: Let us run out?

556
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: Okay.

557
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: This includes more remains belonging to Jessica Taylor, Valerie mac

558
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 1: and Karen Vergotta, all found in the spring of twenty eleven,

559
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: suggesting that those remains had been scattered, and then in

560
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: December twenty eleven, more than a year after she went missing,

561
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: investigators finally find Shannon Gilbert's phone, clothing, and id on

562
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: Oak Beach, not far from where she was last seen,

563
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: and a few days later her remains are finally located

564
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: in a marsh off Ocean Parkway about a quarter of a

565
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 1: mile from those belongings. So it won't be until twenty fifteen,

566
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: after sustained pressure from the victim's loved ones, and I

567
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: believe it's Shannon's mother that just goes to town and

568
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: is like, yep, I'm not going.

569
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: Away, I'm relenting.

570
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: Just yeah, it won't be until twenty fifteen, after sustained

571
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: pressure from the victims loved ones and under a new

572
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: Suffolk County Police commissioner, that the FBI is invited back

573
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: into the investigation. Welcome. And the real breakthrough comes years

574
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 1: after that, in twenty twenty two, when a dedicated task

575
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: force is put together to investigate these murders, specifically twenty

576
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: twenty two. Yeah, eleven years later.

577
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: Like the shame you should feel that it's taken that

578
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: long to even put together a task force, let alone

579
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: solve it.

580
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: Task force first, Yeah, please, with fresh eyes. The task

581
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: force pours over case files, evidence and statements collected by

582
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: earlier detectives, and they quickly hit on a statement provided

583
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: by Amber Coastello's roommate at the time of her disappearance.

584
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: He had told police about a quote ogre like client

585
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: of Ambers who drove a green Chevy Avalanche pickup truck.

586
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 2: Could he be more specific? Like just he's telling you. Yeah,

587
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: have you seen the documentary that he is in that

588
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: the roommate.

589
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: The roommate.

590
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: No, he's just the best. He's like a character out

591
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: of euphoria, like gott to watch him, love him? Yes.

592
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: Also, just these people who are like just trying to

593
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: get by in their day to day and suddenly they

594
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: have to take up like I need to get my

595
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: roommate justice.

596
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: So I told you who did it and you don't

597
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: even listen to me.

598
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Marin Wrights file that information away for a second.

599
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.

600
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: So long established by this point is that Melissa, Maureen, Megan,

601
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: and Amber the gilgo for they had all been contacted

602
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: by someone using a burner phone shortly before they disappeared.

603
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: I don't even know where you get a burner phone

604
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: in the mall one of the Oh.

605
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: The black market Internet? Isn't that what they call it?

606
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: That's traceable, isn't it?

607
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: I don't know.

608
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: I hope I never have to you hope you do.

609
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: Half Suddenly I'm like, well, goodn't it be kind of

610
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: fun prank calling people. Someone had also used a burner

611
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: phone and Melissa's own phone to repeatedly contact Melissa's little sister, Amanda.

612
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: So fucking disgusting.

613
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: It's Craven. That's the one who is planning a trip

614
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: to meet her sister in New York while Melissa was

615
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: actively missing. Amanda is fifteen years old, and she says

616
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: a man would be on the other line taunting her,

617
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: at one point, telling her he'd raped and murdered her sister.

618
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, the depravity. It's the same with a

619
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: fucking golden steak killer. Like, yes, you are so sick

620
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: in a way that we will never understand.

621
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: And thank god it is rare. But at the same time,

622
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: it's like, and that's why women choose the bear. The

623
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: bear doesn't call you for years afterwards.

624
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: Exactly.

625
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: Okay, Burner phones are tricky to trace, the whole point

626
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: of having a burner phone, but calls made from these

627
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: phones still ping nearby towers. I didn't know that police

628
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: had already figured out. These calls typically hit towers in

629
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: midtown Manhattan and on Long Island, particularly in the town

630
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: of Massapequa. By twenty twenty two, when the task force

631
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: is at work. Melissa's family had long been begging police

632
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: to investigate those locations more fully. Now the task force does,

633
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: hoping they can find a man who matches the description

634
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: of an ogre who owns a Chevy Avalanche, who has

635
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: connections to midtown Manhattan and Massapequa. And it doesn't take

636
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: long for them to land on a name, and that

637
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 1: name is rex Huerman.

638
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: Doesn't take long except a decade to land.

639
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't take long for the task force who is

640
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: assigned fucking a decade.

641
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: Later, basic fucking research and.

642
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: Any families having to beg Fifty nine year old Rex

643
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: Hureman described by some acquaintances as quote a big goofy

644
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: guy and others as quote cole and distant, kind of

645
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: creepy men women. Is that what you were going to say?

646
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: No, I was going to point to the hometown that

647
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 2: we just recently did. Yes, that's right, Well had come

648
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 2: out before this episode. I don't think so.

649
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: No, I think breaking news to this thing. Yeah, we've

650
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: got a Minnesota coming up where you can hear from

651
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: someone who wrote in a personal relationship with this guy right,

652
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: worked near and around. Yeah, Okay, so rex Hierman lives

653
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: in Massapequa. He works in midtown Manhattan, where he has

654
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: an architecture firm. His personal cell phone records show that

655
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: he's used his cell phone in no same areas as

656
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: the Burner phone has been used. Many of our victims

657
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: went missing at times when Huerman's wife and kids were

658
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: away on trips without him. This is all compelling, circumstantial evidence,

659
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: but there's also physical evidence and new ways to test

660
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: DNA versus what was available earlier in the investigation. I mean,

661
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: you think about twenty eleven versus twenty two, twenty six,

662
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: it's crazy, it's huge, Yeah, big difference. Now detectives take

663
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: a few hairs found at the crime scenes and compare

664
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: them against a DNA sample pulled from a pizza box

665
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: that Hureman had thrown away.

666
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: Have you seen the footage of it? They have it

667
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: on like security.

668
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: Of them getting that pizza, I think of them.

669
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: Getting the pizza. Wats they definitely have arresting him.

670
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: Yes, that day that started happening. Now it was again

671
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: this like it's finally happening. Yeah, the DNA is consistent

672
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: with Hureman and or a member of his household. And

673
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: then in July of twenty twenty three humans arrested, and

674
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: search warrants are filed for his home and electronic devices.

675
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: What investigators find is truly heinous. It's deeply disturbing, like

676
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: searches for porn involving the mutilation of women. They also

677
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: find Google searches for family members of the Gilgo four victims,

678
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: members of the police task force, and a document of

679
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: hummans that's been characterized as a quote serial killer checklist.

680
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: Among other things, it notes problems a killer might face, DNA,

681
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: hair and fiber thank god, and how to solve them

682
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 1: Booty's hairnet, Oh my god, the planning, the dedication going

683
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: into destroying human life. Despite everything that I've just told you,

684
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: Hureman will maintain that he's innocent until this month, April eighth,

685
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, when he shocks the world by pleading

686
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: guilty to the murders of the Gilgo for as well

687
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 1: as the murder of Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, and Sondra Cristia.

688
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: He also admits to killing Karen Vergata, but he will

689
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: not be prosecuted for her murder as part of his

690
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: plea deal, which also entails cooperating with agents from the

691
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit, who hope to gain more insight

692
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: into his crimes in the wake of his guilty plea.

693
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: Rex Huermann's trial, which was scheduled for later this year,

694
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 1: will not happen, and while it closes several cases commonly

695
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: associated with this so called Long Island serial killer case,

696
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: this story is not entirely over. Unsolved murders and disappearances

697
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: on Long Island remain under investigation. There is real reason

698
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: to believe rex huerman is not behind all of them.

699
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: Among the lingering cases is Shannon Gilbert's. If you remember,

700
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: in May twenty ten, she ran into the darkness of

701
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: Oak Beach. Her body was found more than a year later,

702
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: separate from her clothing and her belongings. Reports note that

703
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: after fleeing her client's home, Shannon knocked on a couple doors,

704
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: asking residents inside for help. By the time someone actually

705
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: calls the police, though, and gives them Shannon's location, she's gone.

706
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: Shannon's client and her driver were questioned by police. They

707
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: are never considered persons of interest in this case, and

708
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: her client insists that he doesn't know why she suddenly

709
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: started panicking that night. Things get very fuzzy. I know,

710
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: it's so weird, it's so crazy, but it's like it

711
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: could have been a million things. Things do get fuzzy.

712
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: After Shannon leaves her client's house, Reporter Robert Kolker makes

713
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: space for the possibility that somebody who encountered her that

714
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: night might know more than they are disclosing. Investigators meanwhile,

715
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: think Shannon's death may have been accidental. She could have

716
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: been intoxicated. That was never proven. She could also been drugged,

717
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 1: if we're just going to say theories, and then wandered

718
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: into the chili marsh, which many have pointed out would

719
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: have required a ton of strength and energy to wade through,

720
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,959
Speaker 1: especially for a woman as petite as Shannon, and that

721
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: that's where she ultimately either drowned or died of hypothermia.

722
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: But as for her clothing and belongings being found far

723
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: away from her remains, a former Sofa County Police commissioner

724
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: once theorized quote, that's explainable because she's, you know, hysterical,

725
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: and she's discarding her possessions as she moves along. Her

726
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: genes might have come off from running in that environment.

727
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: And that is a possibility. Okay, bro I mean. Also,

728
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: it's like, then let's start naming.

729
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: Any any possible possibly. Yeah, let's not do that.

730
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: And also it's kind of going back to she's hysterical, Like,

731
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: why would you use that word, the word hysterical because

732
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: she thinks someone's trying to kill her.

733
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not doing that anymore.

734
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: And she ends up dead along with all the other

735
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: people who are dead.

736
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: She's hysterical because she thinks she's gonna die, and then

737
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: she dies. That kind of makes the hysterical part. You

738
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: don't get to use that word null and void.

739
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: How about logical? And if you use the word logical,

740
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: none of that other stuff tracks at all totally. Shannon's

741
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: family has long suspected vowel play, and the lack of

742
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: knowing exactly what happened to her is something they've had

743
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: to wrestle with for more than a decade. Robert Kolcher

744
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: has spoken extensively with Shannon's family, including her mom Mary,

745
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: who managed to find a silver lining in this unimaginably

746
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: horrible situation. Kulker writes, quote, Mary understood that one way

747
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: of finding at least a shred of meaning in the

748
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: loss of her daughter was that her disappearance led to

749
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: the discovery of those four women several months later, and

750
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: that without and there would be no case, there would

751
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: be no search for the killer, right, And that is

752
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: the story of the Gilgo Beach murders.

753
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,479
Speaker 2: My God, great job.

754
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: So now we're all up to date, right, yeah wow, Yeah,

755
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: that stories just makes you feel real bad. How do

756
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: we break down the institutional system that is based in racism, sexism,

757
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: and abuse and build a new one that helps a

758
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: girl who thinks she's being killed and then gets killed, right,

759
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 1: and calls them on the phone to ask for that help.

760
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: Or needs money because she's trying to live her life

761
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: and can't afford to do that, and so turns to

762
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 2: something that men pay for and want and then gets.

763
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: Puts her size for it, puts her risk, right, and

764
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: then she's blamed for their violence.

765
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: Right because she couldn't make a living the way she

766
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: wanted to or not enough or whatever it is. And

767
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: so she's, yeah, I don't know how we do that?

768
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: Next go, next timeline, next timeline? You want timeline?

769
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: Pop, well, timeline jump on that one.

770
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, as we do, we're gonna make a fucking

771
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 2: sharp right turn. Great different direction, completely okay, and we're

772
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 2: going to the spring of eighteen seventy one. Hey, you

773
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: love that era. I love the past in San Francisco, Hey,

774
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: your fave. So the California gold rush is long over

775
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 2: by this point, but this is still very much a

776
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: talent of prospectors and bankers who fuel their treasure hunts.

777
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: So the prospectors and bankers pay the fucking regular people

778
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: to go find the diamonds and shit, right.

779
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: Prospectors do it, bankers pay them to do it.

780
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. Yeah, okay. So recently a vein of

781
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 2: silver has been discovered in Nevada, and much of that

782
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 2: mining is being spearheaded from San Francisco, and people are

783
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: moving to San Francisco every day to get a piece

784
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: of that action. So one evening, a mining investor named

785
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: George Roberts gets a knock on the door of his

786
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: office in San Francisco. Outside on his doorstep are two men,

787
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 2: one he recognizes, and when he doesn't, the one he

788
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: knows is a handsome forty one year old named Philip Arnold.

789
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 2: And Philip had worked with George on some gold and

790
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: silver mining endeavors, so he already knew him and trusted him,

791
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 2: but he currently works at a company that makes drill

792
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: bits out of industrial grade diamonds. Did you know they

793
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 2: did that?

794
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: I mean no, no, because.

795
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 2: It turns out some diamonds aren't really worth a lot

796
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: of money. Yeah, and they turn them into stuff like

797
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 2: drill bits, which is where this guy Philip works. Well.

798
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: With this detail, we begin the story of the Great

799
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 2: Diamond Hoax. Ooh, hoax, we got a scam. Hell yeah,

800
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: here we go. Love it. The main source for the

801
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: story is a nineteen forty New Yorker article called The

802
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 2: American Goal Conda by aj Leebling, and the rest of

803
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: the sources can be found in our show notes. So

804
00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: that's I still need this paper. Okay, okay, the other

805
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 2: man with Philip. Let me show you Philip real quick.

806
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: He's fucking hot, I guess for that time. Here's his photo.

807
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: Let's see, I'll be the judge of that. Oh right, Hi,

808
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: that looks like Paul what's his name from Ireland?

809
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: Totally Paul Mescalstal. He does with really flat hair and

810
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: a severe part down the middle.

811
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: I love his layering. It's a great coat.

812
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 2: What do you think his mustache smells like?

813
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: I smells like gold. He's got a Kirk Douglas dot

814
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: in his chin.

815
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. He's a handsome fella.

816
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: He combs that hair pretty seriously and.

817
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: He looks like he knows it. Yeah. Okay. So the

818
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: other man with our friend Philip here is a guy

819
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: named John Slack. He's Philip's cousin. He's a bit surly,

820
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 2: he doesn't talk much. Both look really dirty, like they've

821
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: been traveling a long time. They are the prospectors. Essentially.

822
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: Philip is clutching a leather sack, the kind someone might

823
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 2: use to hold gemstones. Fucking it's like just straight out

824
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 2: of a cartoon. Yeah, you know, like a like Goonies exactly.

825
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: They tell George, the investor, that the bag contains diamonds

826
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: and rubies, which they discovered on an exploratory trip through

827
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 2: a region, and they refuse to name what the region is,

828
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 2: but they're like excited about it. They say that because

829
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 2: they've arrived back into town after banking hours, they want

830
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: to use George's office safe to store the stones overnight, Like, hey,

831
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: you know me, can you just hold onto these for

832
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: me overnight? George is like absolutely, and they make him

833
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 2: promise you won't look in the bag. And then but

834
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 2: you'd look in the bag, right, yeah, and he does.

835
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean how could you not?

836
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 2: Of course? Like, yes, is that part of the setup?

837
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

838
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 2: See when someone comes around, they're like, I don't want

839
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 2: you in on this thing, and you're like, I gotta

840
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 2: get in. It's your idea now that you're in on it.

841
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 2: So George says, okay, he says, you want to look

842
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 2: in the bag, and then he doesn't press them for

843
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 2: details about where they were, even though he really wants

844
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: to know. Philip and John they say that the region

845
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: they were in is controlled by Native Americans, who, if

846
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 2: the story had been true, are rightfully hostile towards white outsiders. Yes,

847
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 2: but the stories a lie. And they say that because

848
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 2: of the Native Americans, because of the hostile area, that

849
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 2: means any future larger expeditions will require significant upfront investment

850
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: in order to have adequate defenses. So it costs a

851
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: lot of money to go find a diamond, mind, Yeah,

852
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: and to have everything you need.

853
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: You're not just going to go out there and be

854
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,479
Speaker 1: like pannin for gold type of thing. Well, and also

855
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: because it's very well dealt with in the TV show Deadwood,

856
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: which I highly recommend everyone wants but like you think

857
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: you want it, you're out there trying to get it

858
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: with all everybody else. Then you get it. Now you're

859
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 1: in like ten times the danger totally.

860
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 2: Now everyone wants what you've got and they're not afraid

861
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 2: to try to get it. And so, if there's one

862
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,919
Speaker 2: thing we've learned when we do stories about scams, it's

863
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: when someone has let slip some information about a money

864
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 2: making scheme and they seem reluctant to tell you more

865
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 2: about it at first, and now you're in the position

866
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: of wanting to be involved. That should be a red flag,

867
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 2: right m hm, and you should stay away. Unfortunately, George

868
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: does not do this. Instead, exactly according to Philip's plan,

869
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: the two men leave. George takes the fucking jewel bag

870
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 2: and looks inside it, and what he sees, to his

871
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: semi trained eye is a pile of gemstones, all uncut

872
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: but very precious looking. Nonetheless, he sees garnets, sapphires, diamonds,

873
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: and I wore this ring so we could look at all.

874
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: The Are those garnets and sapphires and diamonds.

875
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and their vintage? I don't think they are real anything.

876
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: But yes, I wanted to do it, but look at

877
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: what those look like. This is called a sputnick ring,

878
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 2: and I'm definitely married. So all these are commonly found

879
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: in Arizona, and so it makes George feel pretty sure

880
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: that that's the region that Philip and John have returned from.

881
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: But the fact that there are diamonds in the bag

882
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 2: is actually a huge detail. No one has found diamonds

883
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: in North America yet. And George brings the bag to

884
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 2: a man named William Chapman Ralston's house. He's the chairman

885
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 2: of the board of the Bank of California. Oh, and

886
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: the two of them are like, ho the shit, And

887
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: they bring the stones to an appraiser. But the thing is, Philip,

888
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 2: the scammer who is hot, knows that no appraiser in

889
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: San Francisco has the equipment or expertise to gauge the

890
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: quality of uncut diamonds. He's just betting on everyone being

891
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 2: a little uninformed based on very impressed by a baggage

892
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 2: gem exactly, And it happens over and over again. They

893
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 2: can tell that there are real diamonds in there, but

894
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: they have no idea that they are industrial grade diamonds.

895
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: The ones they turn into those drill bits where he works.

896
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: They're not gem grade. Plus they're mixed in with a

897
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: few stones that are actually of good quality. So the

898
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: appraiser tells George and William, the richie guys, that the

899
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: stones are probably worse around one hundred thousand dollars. We

900
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: have a few opportunities to do in today's money, okay,

901
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 2: story eighteen seventy one hundred thousand dollars, two million dollars.

902
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I mean to do it. Yep, to

903
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: put this on your head, paper clip crown finally.

904
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: So that's what they think it's worth. In fact, they're

905
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 2: actually worth about twelve thousand dollars, not one hundred thousand dollars,

906
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: which is still three hundred thousand dollars in today's money.

907
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: You always got for the big scams. You got to

908
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 1: invest that money.

909
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So at this point in time, let's talk

910
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 2: a little about diamonds. Diamonds, at this point in time,

911
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: the majority of the world's diamond deposits have not yet

912
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 2: been discovered. For the first two thousand years of the

913
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 2: recorded history of diamond mining, diamonds have come from only

914
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 2: one place, a place called Goal Conda, India, and these

915
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: are now considered some of the rarest and highest quality

916
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 2: diamonds in the world. They're the fucking og and the

917
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 2: Hope diamond is from goal Condat just to like give

918
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: you a fucking idea. And I looked at some photos

919
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: and they're just so beautiful. By eighteen thirty, the Goal

920
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: Conda diamonds had been completely mined. Oh they're gone, they're done.

921
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: So we took them all.

922
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 2: We took them all, and by that point the center

923
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 2: of the diamond mining industry has moved to Brazil, where

924
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: diamonds had been discovered in the seventeen hundreds by Portuguese colonizers.

925
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 2: I mean, hence colonization fucking everywhere.

926
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: Right, you know, because I wanted to say, did the

927
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: colonizers find it or did the natives sign it? And

928
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: they murdered the shit out of the natives to steal them?

929
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: Probably that one. I mean, they're not worth anything unless

930
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 2: you can sell them and you put worth on them.

931
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: So if the natives did find them and they were

932
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,879
Speaker 2: just like heah yeah. But then in eighteen sixty seven,

933
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 2: five years before, Philip walks into George's office with his

934
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: bag of jewels, a twenty one twenty five caret diamond

935
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 2: is discovered in South Africa, and so this kicks off

936
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: the frenzy of prospecting in South Africa. And also it

937
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: generates a lot of interest in where the next big

938
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: deposit of diamonds is going to be found. And there

939
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: are rumors that Arizona, for some reason might be a

940
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: fruitful place to look, because the prospectors believe that there's

941
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 2: some geological similarities to South Africa. So that's just like

942
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: an educated guess from the eighteen hundreds.

943
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: Sure, So the.

944
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 2: Mining world are already focused on Arizona at this point,

945
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: and George and William are now the rich guys are

946
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 2: now under the impression that Philip and John have found

947
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: that sought after vein of diamonds there and that they

948
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 2: need to invest in order to find more.

949
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: I'm not a geologist. I meant to tell you, excuse me,

950
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: ten years ago, but is it and you're not either,

951
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: But is it possible that you'd find a diamond mine

952
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: and a ruby mine and a garnet mine like all

953
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: those things together.

954
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 2: You're being too sensible.

955
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 1: Okay, you got my mistake, my mistake.

956
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about hot phillip here.

957
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 2: He had been born in Kentucky. He has a wife

958
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 2: and family there, though it sounds like he left them

959
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 2: to travel to the gold rush in the West, which

960
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 2: seems like a lot of them did. He does send

961
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: back money periodically, but who the fuck knows what that means.

962
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: He had settled in San Francisco, and in the late

963
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 2: eighteen sixties, after the gold rush had died down, he

964
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 2: took a job as a bookkeeper at that company that

965
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 2: makes rock drills out of industrial diamonds, so that's how

966
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 2: he got ahold of them. These drills are used for

967
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 2: mining other stones, and there he learned a bit about

968
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 2: different grades of diamonds and where they come from. So,

969
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 2: knowing everything that he does, he goes first to London,

970
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: where he buys all of those uncut stones that George

971
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 2: will later see in the bag. Those stones are mostly

972
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 2: industrial grade diamonds with a few nice gemstones mixed in,

973
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: and after returning to the US, he meets up with

974
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 2: his cousin John in Saint Louis, and together the two

975
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 2: travels through Arizona, where they buy the telltale garnets from

976
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: a Native American, so they mix all the stones up,

977
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 2: shake it up like a shake and bake, and then

978
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 2: they bring that bag to where we were in the

979
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 2: beginning of the story, to George's doorstep, with the intention

980
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: of enticing him to invest. The plan works George and

981
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: William the banker, and George tell Philip and John that

982
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: they insist on being allowed to invest in their new

983
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 2: diamond venture. Yes, so you have to include us. I

984
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 2: looked in the bag.

985
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I did all the things you told me

986
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: not to do.

987
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 2: Must. They say they can help raise the capital that

988
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 2: the men need to establish a new mine, and can

989
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: help provide the security they need to defend against the

990
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 2: made up Native Americans and then made up mine. Phillip

991
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: says he's unwilling to part with controlling interest in his

992
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 2: mining venture, but he'll allow George and William to invest

993
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: very generous every time. Before proceeding, though, William the Banker

994
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: insists on sending a scout to the area to make

995
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 2: sure the diamonds are real. He at least has some

996
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 2: forethought into the legitimacy of this whole fucking plan. So

997
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 2: Philip and John say that's fine, but they make the

998
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: scout wear a blindfold for the journey, so he can't

999
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: tell where it is because he doesn't want to reveal

1000
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 2: the exact location yet until he has the money. So

1001
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 2: William chooses a gold miner named David D. Colton to

1002
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 2: accompany the men, and, like everyone pretty much in the US,

1003
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 2: he's never seen a diamond field in his life, so

1004
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: he doesn't really have a point of reference for it.

1005
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 2: So maybe he's not the best guy to.

1006
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: Go, and they're going to build a little diamond field

1007
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: for him.

1008
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 2: Huh yeah, I mean essentially, Yeah, they take him on

1009
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 2: a on a train. They don't get an Arizona they go

1010
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: to Wyoming instead, and then they put him, I think,

1011
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 2: on a horse, and they like blindfold him and essentially

1012
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 2: just like walk him around for a long time on

1013
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: a blindfold on a horse. You could not pay me

1014
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 2: to go blindfold on a horse. It's for three days.

1015
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: Oh no, I could not fucking pay me for an

1016
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: hour back then. It was the only option.

1017
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 2: Not the blindfold part though, Oh the blind I'll do

1018
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:22,240
Speaker 2: the horse.

1019
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh I.

1020
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 2: Don't want to. I'm not like begging to but about it.

1021
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: You're basically just having to feel how to ride that

1022
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: horse correctly, right, Yeah, that's.

1023
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 2: Scary, you know's I'd get carsick.

1024
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: A lot of trust issues there.

1025
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: So when they take the blindfold off, this gold miner

1026
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 2: finds himself on a seven thousand foot high mesa in

1027
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 2: the middle of a vast wilderness. They walk for a

1028
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 2: bit and come to what looks like an ant hill

1029
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: shimmering with diamond dust. They dig for a few hours

1030
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 2: with pocket knives, and they each find several diamonds and

1031
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 2: a few other precious stones. So once they're back in California,

1032
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 2: the gold miner's like, it's fucking He takes the stones

1033
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 2: to a jeweler who again says they're worth a lot

1034
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 2: of money, and if you found this there, then there's

1035
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 2: got to be a lot more so, just like nobody

1036
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 2: fucking knows what they're talking about.

1037
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: Everyone's bullshitting, everyone's bullshitting, and then that it's that thing

1038
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: of like if I did that and got the confirmation

1039
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: I would go, okay, now somebody no blindfolds, Yeah, well

1040
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: just now we know.

1041
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: Yeah right, But then they'd know where it is and

1042
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have to pay him. You know, I don't know,

1043
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 2: I have one hundred percent.

1044
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: Agree I'm trying to scam, solve here, it's not going

1045
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: to work because this already happened one hundred years ago

1046
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: more than that.

1047
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, what David doesn't know is that Philip or John,

1048
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: one of them, had simply scattered some more of those

1049
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 2: London diamonds in that spot while he was still blindfolded.

1050
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 2: So they walked him up, they wished, and then they

1051
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 2: were like, come on down.

1052
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 1: And he's like, plink, plink, plink. Is it starting to rain?

1053
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: Diamond damon?

1054
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: So once David the mining scout tells William George the

1055
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 2: diamond field is legit, the two rich dudes get really

1056
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 2: excited and they know they're going to have to raise

1057
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 2: some serious capital. And as we know, another classic hallmark

1058
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 2: of a scam is urgency. So William and George think

1059
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 2: that at any moment, some other prospector or trapper or

1060
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: just any dude on the street could come across this

1061
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 2: unclaimed diamond field and take it for themselves, because nobody

1062
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: owns it except the Native Americans, of course. So they

1063
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 2: think they have to raise enough money to open a

1064
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 2: brand new diamond mind and fund an army to protect it,

1065
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 2: and they have to do it fast. When this and

1066
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: you get stupid when you're doing stuff fast, oh you know.

1067
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: And also it's so much money.

1068
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, So it requires a trip to New York

1069
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 2: to get investors on board. And in New York, the

1070
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 2: diamonds are again appraised by fucking the founder of Tiffany

1071
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 2: and Company, Oh, mister Tiffany, and he values them at

1072
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 2: at least one hundred and fifty thousand dollars and in

1073
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 2: today's money he gets it wrong too, oh does he? Yeah? Like,

1074
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 2: I think I think everyone gets it wrong and keeps

1075
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 2: getting it wrong, and no one wants to be the

1076
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 2: one who's like, I don't think this is real, because

1077
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 2: what if you're wrong, like three guys ahead of.

1078
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: You, and like Tiffany j Tiffany who got in there

1079
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: and was like, no, these are great, right, Like, oh no,

1080
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: I guess I'll go up again that guy. Yeah, after

1081
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: a while, it's not worth it.

1082
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: Right, So he says that what they found so far

1083
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 2: is worth at least one hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

1084
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 2: which intoday's money.

1085
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: Would that put it over? Is that three point one

1086
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: million dollars kill care of I'm learning?

1087
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, now the New York investors believe that this

1088
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 2: tiny sample from this vast diamond field is worth millions,

1089
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 2: but again they're wanting to do their due diligence and

1090
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: send their own mining expert just to be sure. So Philip,

1091
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 2: the main hot guy, agrees that he'll do this if

1092
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 2: they give him an upfront investment of six hundred and

1093
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars, which is worth almost eighteen million today.

1094
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: Oh shit, and she says we'll buy him and the

1095
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 2: cousins out of any like, I'll show you where it

1096
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 2: is with the money. Yeah, And it seems like everyone

1097
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 2: forgot that at the beginning of the scam, Philip claimed

1098
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 2: he would never let go of a controlling stake in

1099
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 2: the mine. It's like, oh, you're now willing to do it,

1100
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 2: even though now you know it's worth so much more.

1101
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: Everyone forgot, including Philip. Yeah, real black, he didn't track that.

1102
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 2: So they basically agree to it. Before Philip can take

1103
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 2: the group on the trip, he says he and his

1104
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 2: cousin need two hundred thousand dollars up front. Of that

1105
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 2: six hundred and fifty thousand dollars, the investors agree to

1106
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: these terms, and so with that two hundred thousand dollars

1107
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,919
Speaker 2: because they're already knowing they're going to get six hundred

1108
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,240
Speaker 2: and fifty thousand total. The Cousins go back to Europe

1109
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: and buy fifty thousand dollars worth of the worst diamonds

1110
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 2: in Amsterdam. What that trip? And then they seem to

1111
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 2: blow a decent chunk of the rest on nice hotels,

1112
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 2: meals and entertainment. Why take me there?

1113
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: Can we bring that picture back up again? Away? He's like,

1114
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 1: let me take you to Amsterdam. Do you like sirloin? Stay?

1115
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 2: You know who? He looks like Rory's Gobel.

1116
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: He looks like he doesn't, doesn't. It's Becausebury crosses his arms.

1117
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: He does love to cross his arms like that. Okay,

1118
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 2: that's so funny, all right, Okay, so they go, they

1119
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 2: party in Amsterdam. They bring back a bunch of fucking

1120
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 2: cheap ass diamonds. So Philip now takes the investors and

1121
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 2: the expert they have selected back to the hy Mesa,

1122
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 2: which turns out to be a mountain that is now

1123
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 2: called Diamond Peak. And I can show you a photo.

1124
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 2: So it's like that. So you just throw diamonds at

1125
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 2: that and everyone finds them. Yeah, so gorgeous, it's amazing,

1126
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: probably really hot, it's very cool. So Diamond Peak is

1127
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: actually only about fifteen miles from the railroad stop. But

1128
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 2: as I said, he made them walk around flying folded

1129
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 2: for days and days, And at this point one of

1130
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 2: the cousins has clearly had time to go plant more stones.

1131
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 2: And once they're there, everybody digs around with pickaxes. Everyone

1132
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 2: finds diamonds and other precious stones, and so at this

1133
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 2: point the investors are like, okay, we believe you, and

1134
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 2: we're ready to give you the rest of the money.

1135
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 2: And at this point, John, the surly quiet cousin, bows

1136
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: out of the whole scheme and makes himself scarce with

1137
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 2: his remaining money. He's kind of smart, He's like, don't

1138
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: be greedy, get it and go.

1139
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, this can't last.

1140
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 2: So he has about thirty thousand dollars left after his

1141
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 2: romp through Europe. So he Scadatle's on thirty thousand dollars

1142
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 2: in today's money, eight hundred and thirty six thousand. So

1143
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 2: that's enough to live off of for the rest of

1144
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 2: your life. Back then, yeah, it was like a fucking penny.

1145
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: A cup of coffee was three cents exactly.

1146
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 2: And Philip takes his remaining four hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

1147
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 2: which is about twelve million today. His cousin got he

1148
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 2: should have got more, and he pretends and he's really

1149
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 2: upset that he got such a small amount of money, like, well,

1150
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 2: I guess you guys bested me.

1151
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: Oh my field of diarr so well.

1152
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 2: Twelve million dollars. These investors are so stoked they start,

1153
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 2: you know, setting up shop. They open an office in

1154
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: San Francisco. They display some of the gems that have

1155
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 2: been found at this new and mysterious diamond field, thinking

1156
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 2: it's like the first one in the fucking US. But

1157
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 2: they don't sell any additional interest in the property because

1158
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: they want to keep all the profits for themselves. So

1159
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 2: they're greedy about it and they just can't do that.

1160
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 2: Then a geologist named Clarence King, who would go on

1161
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: to form the US Geological Survey which you're in my favorite,

1162
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 2: and who had just finished a geological expedition in the

1163
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: exact same area where this mine was supposed to be

1164
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 2: or supposedly was, went into the investor's mining expert on

1165
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 2: a train. Just a coincidence. It's bad fucking news for everybody,

1166
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: the odds, I mean, everyone's a fucking miner back then.

1167
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that's true. There's a lot of experts

1168
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of this kind of shit that

1169
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: people are trying to do exactly.

1170
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 2: The mining expert had been promised a small share in

1171
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 2: the land, but he had already sold off his portions,

1172
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 2: so he actually doesn't give a shit about keeping it

1173
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: a secret, you know, like everyone else does. He tells

1174
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 2: the sky Clarence all about the diamonds and other precious

1175
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 2: gems in this one particular area of Colorado, and Clarence.

1176
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 2: Our expert is like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. Bullshit,

1177
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 2: He calls bullshit on the whole thing. He had just

1178
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 2: studied this area. He knows it's impossible that was found,

1179
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 2: but he has to go see for himself. So he

1180
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 2: takes the train to the general area he's heard about

1181
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 2: and asks some local shepherds to tell him where a

1182
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 2: bunch of random San Franciscans and New Yorkers had been

1183
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 2: digging lately. And you've seen a lot of dudes lately.

1184
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 2: Where are they? Where were they? A lot of pinstripes, Yeah,

1185
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 2: you know, slip some of twenty Yeah. The shepherds point

1186
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 2: him to the exact spot near Diamond Peak, and once

1187
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 2: their Clarence discovers multiple kinds of diamonds that are clearly

1188
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 2: from different locations, Rubi's garnets, sapphires, emeralds, and amethysts, which,

1189
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 2: as Clarence puts it in a letter to the so

1190
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 2: called mining expert who really only ever knew about gold,

1191
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: calls it quote an association of minerals impossible of occurrence

1192
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 2: in nature, meaning they don't fucking grow together.

1193
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, duh, oh, it's a treasure field.

1194
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 2: They were almost like too greedy, our hot guy, because

1195
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 2: it's like, just put the diamonds in there.

1196
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: That's enough, right, that kind of like mixing it up,

1197
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: I mean, getting people excited. It makes sense for the bag.

1198
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: But then to source them all in one place, it's

1199
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: like I foked out of college and I know that.

1200
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 2: Ain't you knew? I mean, they're lucky they didn't get

1201
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,439
Speaker 2: caught earlier. He says. He finds diamonds in places where

1202
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: it would be impossible for them to be like a

1203
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 2: tree stump. They're just throwing them around, and his assistant

1204
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 2: even finds a little polished like diamond ready for jewel,

1205
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 2: like the ones we see in rings, which must have

1206
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 2: been accidentally mixed in with the other stones where they

1207
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 2: bought them for cheap and then threw them. And it's like,

1208
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 2: here's a fucking cut diamond like this, This is impossible.

1209
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: But also why would they leave it all behind, like

1210
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: this is our special thing, just in case somebody went

1211
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: and checked. It's so weird to me because there is

1212
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 1: value in those Yeah, they are mining for stuff, like

1213
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: it's not like.

1214
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 2: I think they like left them there. So when those

1215
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 2: investors come back, they don't realize they've been had someone

1216
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 2: else could have found them at the same time.

1217
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: No, it's very weird and to mine that gem field, right.

1218
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 2: Clarence sends a telegram to the investors at their brand

1219
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 2: new San Francisco office. He's like, I can't let these guys,

1220
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 2: you know, He says, quote, I have hastened to San

1221
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 2: Francisco to lay before you the startling fact that the

1222
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 2: new diamond fields upon which are based such large investments

1223
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 2: and such brilliant hope, are utterly valueless. That's way to

1224
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 2: say that you got fucking face face and yourselves and

1225
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 2: your engineer the victims of an unparalleled fraud end quote.

1226
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 2: So by this point the new mining company has been

1227
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 2: huge news, like this shop they set up, especially in

1228
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 2: San Francisco, so it's even bigger news when the whole

1229
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 2: thing turns out to be an elaborate scam. I'm sure

1230
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 2: so many people were like stoked to read like it's

1231
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 2: just gossip mags about me totally and were about investors.

1232
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: Because you know that one of them went down there

1233
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: with this pocket watch in his hotal pocket and it says, boys,

1234
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 1: I got to open his office.

1235
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 2: He's got those like sockgarters on and shit diamonds and

1236
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 2: the stock.

1237
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: Garters, rich guy in all over the place.

1238
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 2: That's right. So the story runs in the San Francisco

1239
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 2: bulletin and the whole thing just comes crashing down. But

1240
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 2: by this point John and Philip are later days, they're gone.

1241
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: He's shaved that mustag right filled in the hole.

1242
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 2: It's over. I got some fillery out. Ultimately, only one

1243
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 2: of the investors, a man named William Lent, He's the

1244
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 2: only person that's not too embarrassed to try to track

1245
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 2: Philip down and get some of his me back. Everyone

1246
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: else is so shamed that they don't want to even

1247
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: make it a bigger deal. They just want to quietly

1248
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 2: go away like I got had.

1249
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 1: That's the end of it, because I think maybe in

1250
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: that business, right, if they get had, then they're just

1251
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: the idiots forever. They can't go back and be like, oh,

1252
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 1: let's make another deal.

1253
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 2: Totally, no one believes in them anymore. So this guy,

1254
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 2: William Lytt is probably the most motivated, since he had

1255
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 2: bought out several investors and was on the hook at

1256
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 2: that point in Philip's scheme for three hundred thousand dollars,

1257
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:30,439
Speaker 2: which in today's money.

1258
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to say seven hundred and ten thousand.

1259
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 2: Dollars eight million? Karen, what oh what did you say? Nope?

1260
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: I said it wrong. I said it wrong. I heard

1261
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: it wrong. I don't know you were you heard the seven?

1262
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: You're like, we're there.

1263
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 2: I heard what I wanted to hear.

1264
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: We got there. I mean, listener, if you've just joined us.

1265
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: First of all, we've been playing this stupid game for

1266
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 1: ten years and I am not a winner of this

1267
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: game usually at all.

1268
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 2: Now you got closer I think this time than.

1269
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: Ever than ever, because usually my brain goes like crazy

1270
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: and it's the same is say fifty two million.

1271
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 2: I think I've gotten close or correct one time, and

1272
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: then every other time was so far off it's embarrassing,

1273
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 2: and I would I'd be like these investors and not

1274
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 2: go after my money.

1275
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: Let's put down the hubris around, not only in today's money,

1276
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: but all the jewels in our lives, truly.

1277
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 2: Like my fucking diamond ring that I forgot to put on. Okay, Ultimately,

1278
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 2: this investor tracks Philip down. He had skidaddled to Elizabethtown, Kentucky,

1279
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 2: your favorite place to summer.

1280
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 1: It's so nice.

1281
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 2: Well, he's back with his family, so he didn't ditch

1282
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 2: his family, and he's bought five hundred acres of land

1283
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 2: and has opened the first store in town that has

1284
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 2: plate glass windows. Like he's got the money to spend

1285
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 2: on plate glass windows at this point.

1286
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: And back then, in that era of America, it was

1287
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: all swindlers that opened a store with plate glass windows,

1288
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 1: built their empires. All it's all on the foundation of lying.

1289
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 2: You're a great great great grandfather that you're so proud

1290
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 2: of that sets you up for life with a fucking

1291
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 2: trust fund. Was a scammer.

1292
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: He was an absolute human rights exploiter.

1293
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: Sorry, enjoy your money.

1294
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: My own grandfather who was a cop in San Francisco,

1295
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: totally crooked, got rich. Then my his wife, the widow,

1296
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: donated all of it to the SPCA girl friend. How

1297
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: much well like enough a crooked cop level amount to

1298
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: be like, oh, we could have lived in and my

1299
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: mom and I used to talk about it all the time.

1300
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 2: The killed gera fortune.

1301
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 1: We could have been a contender.

1302
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 2: Is it the killed Gare of fortune or the your

1303
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 2: mob side night the Night Fortune, the Night Fortune. I

1304
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 2: didn't know that was her last name. It's amazing, Okay, Okay,

1305
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 2: that's good. Okay, so play class windows. Philip has plenty

1306
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 2: of cash left when this guy comes after him to

1307
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 2: hire a lawyer, and ultimately he settles with lent for

1308
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, so half of what

1309
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 2: he had taken him for, okay, and so he still

1310
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 2: has money left over. And in the end his net

1311
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 2: profits from the hoax are five hundred and twenty thousand dollars.

1312
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 2: So essentially, with the playing with the lawyer paying this

1313
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:05,439
Speaker 2: guy back, he's got away with about in today's money,

1314
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 2: ten million dollars. WHOA done?

1315
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 1: Just worth it? Worth it? Absolutely, he would do it again.

1316
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 1: God damn.

1317
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. After the settlement, Philip decides to open a bank,

1318
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 2: and this is where ultimately karma comes back to bite

1319
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 2: him in the ass. So there are two competing banks

1320
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 2: in town, and the owners of one of those banks

1321
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,919
Speaker 2: challenges Philip to a duel. They were still doing duels then,

1322
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 2: Great like say, no, such a fucking dude thing to do.

1323
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 2: I want to shoot at you want to shoot at me?

1324
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 1: Yes, I do.

1325
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to survive it, and I make

1326
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 2: guys with you. So let's just do this both dead.

1327
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 2: Philip shoots his competitor in the arm, but the competitor's

1328
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 2: dueling partner sneaks up behind Philip and shoots him in

1329
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 2: the back, killing him.

1330
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: That's cheating.

1331
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 2: Such cheating. So at the age of forty eight, in

1332
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 2: eighteen seventy eight, Philip dies. Philip's cousin and co conspirator,

1333
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,439
Speaker 2: John Slack, is never heard from again.

1334
01:05:59,760 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 1: Smart.

1335
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 2: This is why we have to do the ancestry DNA tesk.

1336
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 2: I want to know whose fucking great great grandpa?

1337
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: This is?

1338
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: Oh in Europe.

1339
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: You want to do other people's ancestry DNA test.

1340
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 2: I want them to do it.

1341
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 1: Yes, everyone's got to do it.

1342
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 2: There's some reports that he moved to New Mexico and

1343
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 2: became a coffin maker. So if that sounds familiar your

1344
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 2: great great grandpa, let us know. And that is the

1345
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 2: story of the great diamond hoax.

1346
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 1: Incredible, I've never heard of that.

1347
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 2: I had neither, and it worked.

1348
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 1: You guys, follow your dream It pays, follow your diamond

1349
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: cheating dreams.

1350
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 2: Just get a scam, make it good, leave immediately.

1351
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: Get out right before the peak.

1352
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 2: Wait a second, should we be listening to our own advice?

1353
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 2: Oh shit?

1354
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: All right, well guys, this has been ten years. Thanks

1355
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: so much.

1356
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 2: Oh thanks for letting us get away with this for

1357
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 2: ten years. We appreciate it.

1358
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:51,959
Speaker 1: You know, go find your diamonds. Yeah, but if someone

1359
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: shows you a bag of diamonds and says, don't look

1360
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 1: in here, and then you do, those aren't real diamond.

1361
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 2: That's right, but you are. You're the real diamond of

1362
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 2: this story. Say sexy and don't get goodbye? Elvis, do

1363
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 2: you want to cookie?

1364
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production.

1365
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer

1366
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 2: is Tessa Hughes.

1367
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 1: Our editor is Aristotle Lascevedo.

1368
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by Leona Squalacci.

1369
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 1: Our researchers are Mayor McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1370
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 2: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot.

1371
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 1: Com and follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1372
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1373
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1374
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 1: And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

1375
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 2: And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and

1376
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 2: the remind Me buttons. That's the best way you can

1377
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 2: support our show. Goodbye,