1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:22,916 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When people see me on the street, I often 2 00:00:22,956 --> 00:00:24,556 Speaker 1: wonder what they think about me. I mean, I know 3 00:00:24,796 --> 00:00:27,756 Speaker 1: sometimes what they think, because they'll tell me. Simrn Jet 4 00:00:27,756 --> 00:00:30,316 Speaker 1: Singh is an educator and best selling author, but it's 5 00:00:30,356 --> 00:00:32,956 Speaker 1: not his work that prompts some strangers to interact with 6 00:00:33,036 --> 00:00:35,916 Speaker 1: him in public. They see my turban and my beard 7 00:00:35,956 --> 00:00:38,556 Speaker 1: and my brown skin, and the reaction to Simren's physical 8 00:00:38,596 --> 00:00:42,356 Speaker 1: appearance is often very dumb and very racist. The standard, 9 00:00:42,436 --> 00:00:46,716 Speaker 1: especially at this point in my life, is terrorist isis 10 00:00:46,716 --> 00:00:50,556 Speaker 1: Taliban al Qaida. Simmern's beard and turban are outward signs 11 00:00:50,556 --> 00:00:53,556 Speaker 1: of his faith, Simmern's sick and as such, as part 12 00:00:53,556 --> 00:00:56,956 Speaker 1: of a huge global community. Sickism is estimated to be 13 00:00:56,996 --> 00:00:59,956 Speaker 1: the fifth largest religion, with tens of millions of followers, 14 00:01:00,116 --> 00:01:02,236 Speaker 1: both in South Asia, where it was first developed five 15 00:01:02,356 --> 00:01:04,876 Speaker 1: hundred years ago, and now in almost every corner of 16 00:01:04,876 --> 00:01:08,716 Speaker 1: the world. Yet, particularly in America, only a tiny minority 17 00:01:08,716 --> 00:01:11,396 Speaker 1: of people have any idea about six or their beliefs, 18 00:01:11,916 --> 00:01:14,836 Speaker 1: and in the absence of any real knowledge about Sikhisms, teachings, 19 00:01:14,836 --> 00:01:18,556 Speaker 1: and traditions, Simmerens has, many people just reach for stereotypes 20 00:01:18,796 --> 00:01:22,676 Speaker 1: or lazy assumptions. People will see that I'm visibly religious, 21 00:01:22,676 --> 00:01:28,156 Speaker 1: and they'll assume that I'm misogynistic or homophobic or close minded, right, 22 00:01:28,196 --> 00:01:30,076 Speaker 1: like all these other assumptions we have about people who 23 00:01:30,116 --> 00:01:33,956 Speaker 1: are quote unquote hardcore about religion, And I get it. 24 00:01:33,996 --> 00:01:36,436 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, to be honest, I find myself 25 00:01:36,596 --> 00:01:39,236 Speaker 1: struggling with the same biases about other people who are 26 00:01:39,276 --> 00:01:41,476 Speaker 1: visibly religious. So it's kind of weird to realize that 27 00:01:41,556 --> 00:01:44,436 Speaker 1: the same things that bother me about what people assume 28 00:01:44,436 --> 00:01:47,196 Speaker 1: about me, like, I have those same prejudices inside of 29 00:01:47,236 --> 00:01:50,076 Speaker 1: me too, so I try and notice them whenever they happen. 30 00:01:50,116 --> 00:01:52,676 Speaker 1: But yet it is strange to walk around and know 31 00:01:52,836 --> 00:01:56,276 Speaker 1: that constantly I'm being judged even though people don't even 32 00:01:56,276 --> 00:01:58,836 Speaker 1: know me. So over the next two episodes, we're going 33 00:01:58,876 --> 00:02:00,956 Speaker 1: to get to know Simren, to find out who he 34 00:02:01,036 --> 00:02:03,396 Speaker 1: is and what he's about, and along the way, we'll 35 00:02:03,436 --> 00:02:05,556 Speaker 1: hear the important things that Sickism has had to say 36 00:02:05,596 --> 00:02:09,236 Speaker 1: about happiness over the centuries. In these shows, Simren will 37 00:02:09,276 --> 00:02:11,476 Speaker 1: introduce us to the concepts that are key to his faith, 38 00:02:11,756 --> 00:02:15,396 Speaker 1: things like kindness, gratitude, and radical connectedness. But we'll also 39 00:02:15,436 --> 00:02:18,156 Speaker 1: explore an idea that underpins all the happiness science. We 40 00:02:18,196 --> 00:02:21,196 Speaker 1: discuss on this podcast that merely knowing about this stuff 41 00:02:21,236 --> 00:02:23,796 Speaker 1: doesn't help unless you put it into practice each and 42 00:02:23,836 --> 00:02:26,836 Speaker 1: every chance you get. So welcome back as we explore 43 00:02:26,876 --> 00:02:30,036 Speaker 1: sick teachings on happiness lessons of the Ancients with me 44 00:02:30,316 --> 00:02:41,636 Speaker 1: doctor Laurie Santos. There the first headphones, Nah, big moment 45 00:02:41,716 --> 00:02:43,956 Speaker 1: for me. I just got him last week. Large hair 46 00:02:44,076 --> 00:02:47,276 Speaker 1: and turbans like headphones now are like you know, it's 47 00:02:47,276 --> 00:02:49,316 Speaker 1: like I beat by Drake came out and I was like, man, 48 00:02:49,356 --> 00:02:53,116 Speaker 1: I really want to be cool, but so okay, let 49 00:02:53,116 --> 00:02:56,036 Speaker 1: me plug these in. As well as being Executive director 50 00:02:56,076 --> 00:02:59,716 Speaker 1: for the Aspen Institute's Religion and Society program, Simmerin Jeet 51 00:02:59,756 --> 00:03:01,956 Speaker 1: Singh is also the author of The Light We Give, 52 00:03:02,196 --> 00:03:05,196 Speaker 1: How Sick Wisdom Can Transform Your Life. It's a book 53 00:03:05,196 --> 00:03:07,596 Speaker 1: that really opened my eyes to so many aspects of 54 00:03:07,636 --> 00:03:10,956 Speaker 1: sickism that had previously passed me by. The Light We 55 00:03:11,036 --> 00:03:13,716 Speaker 1: Give isn't a book about theology. It's an honest and 56 00:03:13,756 --> 00:03:16,916 Speaker 1: really insightful memoir packed with teachings from the gurus who 57 00:03:17,036 --> 00:03:20,196 Speaker 1: established and developed the sick religion centuries ago, the same 58 00:03:20,236 --> 00:03:23,916 Speaker 1: ones that Simren honors and observes today. In modern day America. 59 00:03:24,196 --> 00:03:26,356 Speaker 1: Reading the book, I was struck by how relevant and 60 00:03:26,356 --> 00:03:29,876 Speaker 1: relatable Sikhism is to all the happiness challenges we face today, 61 00:03:30,356 --> 00:03:32,676 Speaker 1: but also by the fact that Simmeren's religion is a 62 00:03:32,716 --> 00:03:36,156 Speaker 1: total mystery to many of his fellow Americans. It's such 63 00:03:36,156 --> 00:03:40,476 Speaker 1: a bizarre feeling to realize I am a highly visible minority, 64 00:03:40,596 --> 00:03:43,316 Speaker 1: and in this country we are a minority. But in 65 00:03:43,356 --> 00:03:46,516 Speaker 1: this world there is a big population of sex who 66 00:03:46,516 --> 00:03:49,916 Speaker 1: have made all kinds of contributions to global communities, who 67 00:03:49,956 --> 00:03:52,556 Speaker 1: live all over the world, not just in the homeland 68 00:03:52,676 --> 00:03:55,316 Speaker 1: of Punjab and South Asia, but I mean scattered all 69 00:03:55,356 --> 00:03:59,036 Speaker 1: across the world as a diaspora. And so in my 70 00:03:59,436 --> 00:04:01,636 Speaker 1: heart and in my head, I know we're not a 71 00:04:01,716 --> 00:04:04,756 Speaker 1: tiny community. But in other people's perceptions are like, what 72 00:04:05,436 --> 00:04:07,716 Speaker 1: are you like, where do you come from? I know 73 00:04:07,836 --> 00:04:10,236 Speaker 1: nothing about you? And so for the most part, that's 74 00:04:10,316 --> 00:04:12,196 Speaker 1: fine in a lot of cases, right, Like we can 75 00:04:12,236 --> 00:04:15,596 Speaker 1: get by not knowing everything about everyone around us. But 76 00:04:15,716 --> 00:04:19,596 Speaker 1: when that ignorance meets bias or meets stereotype, it can 77 00:04:19,596 --> 00:04:22,556 Speaker 1: be really dangerous. So talk a little bit about Sikhism. 78 00:04:22,596 --> 00:04:24,796 Speaker 1: Give me the kind of introduction to this religion for 79 00:04:24,836 --> 00:04:26,996 Speaker 1: folks who haven't heard much about it. If I had 80 00:04:27,036 --> 00:04:29,476 Speaker 1: to tell you one thing about what it means to 81 00:04:29,476 --> 00:04:31,996 Speaker 1: be a sick, I'd start with my principles, because that, 82 00:04:32,036 --> 00:04:34,956 Speaker 1: to me is like what keeps me within this tradition, 83 00:04:34,996 --> 00:04:37,756 Speaker 1: what I value about it most, and that is, I think, 84 00:04:37,756 --> 00:04:40,716 Speaker 1: in some ways a really simple framework for looking at life, 85 00:04:40,876 --> 00:04:44,116 Speaker 1: but also something that's really practical and transformative, at least 86 00:04:44,156 --> 00:04:46,796 Speaker 1: for me. And so the place to begin in sick 87 00:04:46,836 --> 00:04:50,796 Speaker 1: philosophy is with the first term ongar. It refers to 88 00:04:50,836 --> 00:04:54,876 Speaker 1: the oneness of all creation, of all humanity, and it's 89 00:04:54,916 --> 00:04:57,316 Speaker 1: the basis of so much of what we believe and 90 00:04:57,436 --> 00:05:00,676 Speaker 1: how we try to live, our commitment to non discrimination, 91 00:05:00,916 --> 00:05:05,636 Speaker 1: for example, on the basis of anything right, gender, sexual orientation, religion, 92 00:05:05,796 --> 00:05:08,356 Speaker 1: I mean everyone, the way we talk about it, everyone 93 00:05:08,396 --> 00:05:11,956 Speaker 1: has the same light within them, and so we have 94 00:05:11,996 --> 00:05:13,996 Speaker 1: no place to judge them. I mean, it's it's a 95 00:05:14,036 --> 00:05:18,116 Speaker 1: really great protection in a society where we're constantly falling 96 00:05:18,116 --> 00:05:22,236 Speaker 1: into drafts of hierarchy and supremacy. So that's one, and 97 00:05:22,316 --> 00:05:25,396 Speaker 1: then the idea from there is if you can really 98 00:05:25,516 --> 00:05:29,596 Speaker 1: learn to feel the interconnection within the world, then that 99 00:05:29,676 --> 00:05:32,476 Speaker 1: engender is a feeling of love and that's the promise 100 00:05:32,596 --> 00:05:36,116 Speaker 1: of spirituality at large, not just of sickism. That you know, 101 00:05:36,156 --> 00:05:38,396 Speaker 1: the height of human experience is this feeling of love, 102 00:05:38,436 --> 00:05:40,636 Speaker 1: and you can have that at every moment in your 103 00:05:40,636 --> 00:05:44,396 Speaker 1: life through this broader feeling of interconnection. That to me 104 00:05:44,516 --> 00:05:47,356 Speaker 1: is the second building block of sick teachings. And then 105 00:05:47,356 --> 00:05:50,436 Speaker 1: the third is that when you feel connected and when 106 00:05:50,476 --> 00:05:53,116 Speaker 1: you feel love, then your natural impulse is to show 107 00:05:53,196 --> 00:05:55,756 Speaker 1: up for the people around you, especially when they're suffering, 108 00:05:55,796 --> 00:05:59,116 Speaker 1: and so service and justice become a really cool part 109 00:05:59,156 --> 00:06:02,196 Speaker 1: of how we understand ourselves, but also what it means 110 00:06:02,196 --> 00:06:04,316 Speaker 1: to be spiritual, what it means to be a good person. 111 00:06:04,436 --> 00:06:07,316 Speaker 1: It's not just about cultivating something inside of you, it's 112 00:06:07,476 --> 00:06:10,516 Speaker 1: it's about letting that blossom and then extend out words 113 00:06:10,556 --> 00:06:13,116 Speaker 1: to the people around you so that you care for 114 00:06:13,156 --> 00:06:15,436 Speaker 1: them in the way that you might care for yourself, 115 00:06:15,796 --> 00:06:19,396 Speaker 1: with an understanding that it's all a shared sense of reality. 116 00:06:19,436 --> 00:06:21,796 Speaker 1: At the starting point in psych philosophy is we're all 117 00:06:21,796 --> 00:06:23,836 Speaker 1: in this together. This is one of the reasons I 118 00:06:23,876 --> 00:06:26,196 Speaker 1: was so excited to talk with you for this podcast, right, 119 00:06:26,276 --> 00:06:29,156 Speaker 1: is that if we look at sick philosophy generally attends 120 00:06:29,156 --> 00:06:30,676 Speaker 1: to map on a lot to a lot of the 121 00:06:30,676 --> 00:06:33,676 Speaker 1: principles that we see in the modern happiness science. But 122 00:06:33,716 --> 00:06:36,876 Speaker 1: I think it's a philosophy that's especially useful now, and 123 00:06:36,996 --> 00:06:40,636 Speaker 1: especially useful for someone who has a marginalized identity, because 124 00:06:40,636 --> 00:06:43,396 Speaker 1: you're constantly facing these threats that kind of challenge this 125 00:06:43,476 --> 00:06:46,156 Speaker 1: sense of shared connectedness. Reading your book, I was really 126 00:06:46,196 --> 00:06:48,876 Speaker 1: struck by kind of how some of those moments of 127 00:06:49,036 --> 00:06:51,636 Speaker 1: feeling discriminated against kind of took a fever pitch in 128 00:06:51,676 --> 00:06:53,596 Speaker 1: your life around nine to eleven, you know, So talk 129 00:06:53,636 --> 00:06:55,076 Speaker 1: to me a little bit about the story of what 130 00:06:55,196 --> 00:06:56,876 Speaker 1: nine to eleven was like for you. You know, how 131 00:06:56,876 --> 00:06:59,676 Speaker 1: old were you and sort of what happened to your family. Then. Yeah, 132 00:06:59,716 --> 00:07:02,196 Speaker 1: So I was eighteen years old in two thousand and one. 133 00:07:02,316 --> 00:07:04,076 Speaker 1: I was a senior in high school. I was living 134 00:07:04,076 --> 00:07:07,236 Speaker 1: in South Texas. I went to a big public school. 135 00:07:08,596 --> 00:07:11,156 Speaker 1: My brother and I were some of the only kids 136 00:07:11,196 --> 00:07:13,676 Speaker 1: who wore turbans in all of South Texas. And I 137 00:07:13,716 --> 00:07:18,196 Speaker 1: remember we heard the rumors, the whispers that an attack 138 00:07:18,236 --> 00:07:21,556 Speaker 1: had happened. We ran to my teachers classroom is Strong, 139 00:07:21,716 --> 00:07:23,756 Speaker 1: our history teacher who we were all close to, and 140 00:07:23,756 --> 00:07:26,876 Speaker 1: while just watched on television, we watched the towers come down, 141 00:07:27,516 --> 00:07:31,116 Speaker 1: and nobody said anything. Very quiet. After about half an hour, 142 00:07:31,756 --> 00:07:33,996 Speaker 1: one of the anchors announced that they had a suspect, 143 00:07:34,196 --> 00:07:36,356 Speaker 1: and they share a name of somebody I'd never heard 144 00:07:36,356 --> 00:07:39,916 Speaker 1: of before, Osama bin Laden, and then they flash an 145 00:07:39,956 --> 00:07:43,156 Speaker 1: image of him on the screen and I look at 146 00:07:43,276 --> 00:07:47,196 Speaker 1: him and my heart just sank because it's another man 147 00:07:47,356 --> 00:07:50,316 Speaker 1: with a turban and a beard and brown skin, very 148 00:07:50,396 --> 00:07:52,876 Speaker 1: much like me. I knew my friends in the room 149 00:07:52,916 --> 00:07:54,716 Speaker 1: with me. I knew them well enough to know they 150 00:07:54,716 --> 00:07:58,676 Speaker 1: weren't going to judge me or associate me with him, 151 00:07:58,716 --> 00:08:00,676 Speaker 1: and I could see them looking at me. What I 152 00:08:00,716 --> 00:08:03,516 Speaker 1: saw in their eyes was a kind of sympathy, like 153 00:08:03,556 --> 00:08:06,276 Speaker 1: an oshit moment, like what is going to happen to you? 154 00:08:06,676 --> 00:08:08,316 Speaker 1: And I wondered the same thing myself. I mean, I 155 00:08:08,396 --> 00:08:10,516 Speaker 1: knew in that moment that my life would never be 156 00:08:10,556 --> 00:08:13,116 Speaker 1: the same, and it hasn't been. I mean, it really 157 00:08:13,196 --> 00:08:15,796 Speaker 1: hasn't been. That That afternoon, my mom came to school early, 158 00:08:15,996 --> 00:08:18,476 Speaker 1: pretty much immediately picked us all up, took us home. 159 00:08:18,556 --> 00:08:21,716 Speaker 1: We locked the doors. I remember that vividly because we 160 00:08:22,076 --> 00:08:24,396 Speaker 1: had never locked the doors growing up in our neighborhood. 161 00:08:25,396 --> 00:08:29,956 Speaker 1: That afternoon, the death threat started first by phone, then 162 00:08:29,996 --> 00:08:31,916 Speaker 1: people driving by So I mean it was a really 163 00:08:31,956 --> 00:08:34,916 Speaker 1: intense moment in my life that raised a lot of 164 00:08:34,996 --> 00:08:38,436 Speaker 1: questions too, write what does it mean to be doubly attacked? 165 00:08:38,516 --> 00:08:40,636 Speaker 1: Right as an American on the one hand and as 166 00:08:40,676 --> 00:08:42,876 Speaker 1: a sick on the other What does it mean when 167 00:08:43,196 --> 00:08:46,436 Speaker 1: other people's perceptions of you turned violent and you don't 168 00:08:46,476 --> 00:08:48,836 Speaker 1: have the luxury to cast them aside or even turn 169 00:08:48,916 --> 00:08:50,436 Speaker 1: the other cheek, and then you have to meet them 170 00:08:50,476 --> 00:08:53,196 Speaker 1: head on? Like what do you do when everything feels 171 00:08:53,196 --> 00:08:55,756 Speaker 1: so dark and difficult? Like where do you find hope? 172 00:08:55,996 --> 00:08:57,396 Speaker 1: What's the light at the end of the tunnel that 173 00:08:57,516 --> 00:08:59,476 Speaker 1: keeps you going? And so it was just a really 174 00:08:59,916 --> 00:09:03,156 Speaker 1: tough period for me that actually, in retrospect, I could 175 00:09:03,156 --> 00:09:05,956 Speaker 1: see that I'm also, as an eighteen year old being 176 00:09:05,996 --> 00:09:08,436 Speaker 1: shaped and formed as I figure out the answers to 177 00:09:08,476 --> 00:09:10,596 Speaker 1: these questions. And it seemed like one of the spots 178 00:09:10,636 --> 00:09:12,716 Speaker 1: you went for hope was actually to go back to 179 00:09:12,796 --> 00:09:15,756 Speaker 1: sick philosophy, right, Like, these these teachings that can be 180 00:09:15,836 --> 00:09:18,636 Speaker 1: powerful from a religious perspective in terms of what they 181 00:09:18,716 --> 00:09:20,396 Speaker 1: cause you to do, but I think can be really 182 00:09:20,396 --> 00:09:23,156 Speaker 1: powerful from a psychological perspective in terms of the kind 183 00:09:23,156 --> 00:09:25,836 Speaker 1: of resilience and the kind of strengths that they give you. 184 00:09:26,156 --> 00:09:27,996 Speaker 1: And so one of the teachings that I know you 185 00:09:28,076 --> 00:09:31,556 Speaker 1: turned to at that time was the sick idea of chardycola. 186 00:09:31,836 --> 00:09:33,596 Speaker 1: You know, so, what's chardi coola and how does it 187 00:09:33,876 --> 00:09:37,156 Speaker 1: kind of help you to get through tough times? Yeah? So, 188 00:09:37,356 --> 00:09:41,556 Speaker 1: Jarda vigola is a nice pronunciation, by the way, well done. 189 00:09:41,596 --> 00:09:44,116 Speaker 1: It's it has it has a letter in there that 190 00:09:44,196 --> 00:09:48,036 Speaker 1: most most Americans have never heard before. Jarda kola is 191 00:09:48,156 --> 00:09:52,236 Speaker 1: basically this idea of everlasting optimism, of staying in high 192 00:09:52,236 --> 00:09:55,876 Speaker 1: spirits regardless of what's happening around you. You know, in 193 00:09:56,236 --> 00:09:59,396 Speaker 1: some ways, we could talk about this in a really 194 00:09:59,436 --> 00:10:01,356 Speaker 1: superficial way, you know, we have we have a big 195 00:10:01,356 --> 00:10:06,476 Speaker 1: conversation culturally right now around toxic positivity. You just sugarcoat 196 00:10:06,516 --> 00:10:08,636 Speaker 1: anything that comes your way and just say it's fine 197 00:10:08,716 --> 00:10:11,916 Speaker 1: and or your actual feelings or the difficulty that's brought 198 00:10:11,956 --> 00:10:14,916 Speaker 1: to you. And Jodie Nikola strikes me to something that's different, 199 00:10:15,036 --> 00:10:16,676 Speaker 1: or at least the way that I've understood it and 200 00:10:16,996 --> 00:10:20,156 Speaker 1: tried to apply it. And it's basically this approach that 201 00:10:20,516 --> 00:10:24,076 Speaker 1: enables you to recognize the complexity of life at the 202 00:10:24,116 --> 00:10:29,116 Speaker 1: same time and also reinstill agency. And I'll sort of 203 00:10:29,156 --> 00:10:31,996 Speaker 1: talk through that. Basically, the idea and sick philosophy is 204 00:10:32,276 --> 00:10:36,036 Speaker 1: that difficulty is real, challenges are real. It's okay to 205 00:10:36,076 --> 00:10:39,396 Speaker 1: acknowledge them and to feel the pain, and at the 206 00:10:39,436 --> 00:10:43,196 Speaker 1: same time, it's possible to find hope within that, to 207 00:10:43,276 --> 00:10:47,196 Speaker 1: find goodness within that. And so in this moment when 208 00:10:47,196 --> 00:10:50,436 Speaker 1: I'm eighteen years old and the terrorist attacks happen, and 209 00:10:50,436 --> 00:10:52,636 Speaker 1: as I've described, it feels really different. I mean, we're 210 00:10:52,636 --> 00:10:55,356 Speaker 1: getting death threats, We're watching TV and seeing our country 211 00:10:55,356 --> 00:10:57,996 Speaker 1: falling apart. It really feels like there's no hope. And 212 00:10:58,036 --> 00:11:01,476 Speaker 1: after a few days, my dad said something to me like, 213 00:11:01,556 --> 00:11:04,116 Speaker 1: aren't we so fortunate? And I look at him like 214 00:11:04,196 --> 00:11:07,076 Speaker 1: he's lost his mind, right, Like in what world is 215 00:11:07,076 --> 00:11:09,436 Speaker 1: there's something to feel fortunate about? And he goes on 216 00:11:09,516 --> 00:11:11,676 Speaker 1: to say, well, you know, we're so lucky that your 217 00:11:11,716 --> 00:11:14,276 Speaker 1: neighbors have been coming by to give us food, that 218 00:11:14,316 --> 00:11:16,876 Speaker 1: your teachers and your teammates have been checking in to 219 00:11:16,876 --> 00:11:18,876 Speaker 1: see if you're okay. I mean, aren't we so lucky 220 00:11:18,916 --> 00:11:21,756 Speaker 1: to have all these people around us? But as in 221 00:11:21,876 --> 00:11:24,916 Speaker 1: eighteen year old i'm thinking about it, I'm like, wow, Like, 222 00:11:25,276 --> 00:11:28,156 Speaker 1: here's a situation in which I've been so engrossed by 223 00:11:28,156 --> 00:11:31,396 Speaker 1: the difficulty and inappropriately right, It's not like I'm wishing 224 00:11:31,396 --> 00:11:34,596 Speaker 1: that I hadn't paid attention to the hardship, But somehow, 225 00:11:34,636 --> 00:11:36,796 Speaker 1: because I was so focused on that, I was missing 226 00:11:37,276 --> 00:11:39,916 Speaker 1: all the other things that were true. And the truth 227 00:11:40,116 --> 00:11:42,476 Speaker 1: of the experience was as I started to open my 228 00:11:42,516 --> 00:11:45,276 Speaker 1: eyes to that, I started to see the light around me. 229 00:11:45,316 --> 00:11:47,076 Speaker 1: I started to see the goodness around me, like I 230 00:11:47,076 --> 00:11:50,476 Speaker 1: started to feel hope and love around me, and recognizing 231 00:11:51,116 --> 00:11:53,716 Speaker 1: in that moment, as in eighteen year old, in these 232 00:11:53,716 --> 00:11:56,396 Speaker 1: difficult moments, we actually have a choice. And it doesn't 233 00:11:56,396 --> 00:11:59,636 Speaker 1: feel natural, it doesn't feel intuitive, but but like to 234 00:11:59,996 --> 00:12:02,396 Speaker 1: step back and say, okay, I'm going to take a 235 00:12:02,436 --> 00:12:05,476 Speaker 1: second and just notice around me, what is the good? 236 00:12:05,916 --> 00:12:08,676 Speaker 1: What are the people doing that can reinstill hope in 237 00:12:08,756 --> 00:12:11,436 Speaker 1: me that I don't get so lost in my own 238 00:12:11,596 --> 00:12:14,796 Speaker 1: darkness or victimization or whatever it is that happens in 239 00:12:14,876 --> 00:12:19,116 Speaker 1: that moment. And here Simron's centuries old sick faith reflects 240 00:12:19,116 --> 00:12:22,676 Speaker 1: the latest science on things like toxic positivity. Too often 241 00:12:22,676 --> 00:12:25,996 Speaker 1: we think the path to happiness involves ignoring our negative emotions, 242 00:12:26,436 --> 00:12:29,036 Speaker 1: but the scientific evidence shows that we probably be better 243 00:12:29,036 --> 00:12:30,916 Speaker 1: off if we can find ways to accept the bad 244 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:34,116 Speaker 1: reality out there, and maybe even as Simmern's father did, 245 00:12:34,356 --> 00:12:36,516 Speaker 1: search for things to be grateful for in the face 246 00:12:36,556 --> 00:12:40,076 Speaker 1: of bleak events. After the Break, we'll take this idea 247 00:12:40,076 --> 00:12:42,996 Speaker 1: a step further as we explore how sickism links all 248 00:12:43,076 --> 00:12:45,956 Speaker 1: things good and bad together, and how this concept of 249 00:12:46,036 --> 00:12:49,076 Speaker 1: oneness can allow us to both weather hardships and reach 250 00:12:49,116 --> 00:12:51,276 Speaker 1: out to the people around us, no matter what their 251 00:12:51,316 --> 00:12:54,356 Speaker 1: faith or background. That's all to come when the Happiness 252 00:12:54,396 --> 00:13:04,356 Speaker 1: lab returns in a moment. Like many of the other 253 00:13:04,396 --> 00:13:07,436 Speaker 1: religions you may be more familiar with, sickism teaches that 254 00:13:07,476 --> 00:13:10,156 Speaker 1: there is a single God and everything springs from this 255 00:13:10,196 --> 00:13:13,476 Speaker 1: single source. But reading Simernji Singh's book The Light we 256 00:13:13,556 --> 00:13:16,716 Speaker 1: Give How Sick Wisdom can Transform your life, it's clear 257 00:13:16,756 --> 00:13:20,436 Speaker 1: that his concept of oneness isn't an abstract or theological detail. 258 00:13:20,836 --> 00:13:23,796 Speaker 1: It's central to how he lives his everyday life. It 259 00:13:24,076 --> 00:13:26,356 Speaker 1: own car as six call. It is an idea that 260 00:13:26,436 --> 00:13:31,676 Speaker 1: joins absolutely everything together. One of the teachings in sick 261 00:13:31,716 --> 00:13:35,556 Speaker 1: philosophy that ties in here to Ikonkar is that if 262 00:13:35,596 --> 00:13:38,636 Speaker 1: you can really get to a place where you at 263 00:13:38,676 --> 00:13:42,996 Speaker 1: least start to see the divinity, the oneness, the interconnection 264 00:13:43,236 --> 00:13:46,556 Speaker 1: in everything that's around you, then there's not a value 265 00:13:46,596 --> 00:13:49,876 Speaker 1: judgment on whatever it is that you encounter. Right And 266 00:13:49,956 --> 00:13:54,396 Speaker 1: I'm not here spiritually yet, although I've inched closer and 267 00:13:54,716 --> 00:13:57,396 Speaker 1: I feel the impact on it in terms of how 268 00:13:57,436 --> 00:13:59,676 Speaker 1: I experience this world. If you can get to a 269 00:13:59,716 --> 00:14:04,796 Speaker 1: place where you're not constantly seeing the world and your 270 00:14:04,796 --> 00:14:07,916 Speaker 1: life through the lens of good and bad, right Like, 271 00:14:08,476 --> 00:14:12,156 Speaker 1: I have this difficult thing that's happening at work. Let's say, 272 00:14:12,436 --> 00:14:13,996 Speaker 1: and I come home and I'm like, oh, that was 273 00:14:14,036 --> 00:14:17,356 Speaker 1: a terrible day today sucked. Like, of course, your experience 274 00:14:17,356 --> 00:14:19,796 Speaker 1: of that day is going to be rough, and that's 275 00:14:19,796 --> 00:14:21,436 Speaker 1: how most of us operate day to day. I mean 276 00:14:21,676 --> 00:14:25,956 Speaker 1: me too. But what sick philosophy offers is what if 277 00:14:26,036 --> 00:14:29,356 Speaker 1: you can own the pain of that day, but also 278 00:14:29,676 --> 00:14:34,156 Speaker 1: through this practice of gratitude and through this perspective of oneness, say, oh, 279 00:14:34,516 --> 00:14:36,756 Speaker 1: I'm not sugarcoating it, I'm not dismissing the pain, but 280 00:14:37,636 --> 00:14:40,716 Speaker 1: I can see the goodness and all of it and 281 00:14:40,796 --> 00:14:43,716 Speaker 1: live with equanimity. Right Like, see this thing that keeps 282 00:14:43,716 --> 00:14:45,716 Speaker 1: me in balance all the time. And then so that 283 00:14:45,876 --> 00:14:49,916 Speaker 1: the idea is you can taste the sweetness of life. 284 00:14:49,996 --> 00:14:53,716 Speaker 1: That's the word we use in our tradition. It's mitas sweetness. 285 00:14:53,956 --> 00:14:56,516 Speaker 1: You can taste the sweetness of life even when you're 286 00:14:56,556 --> 00:14:58,836 Speaker 1: in the midst of pain. And that's yeah, that's such 287 00:14:58,836 --> 00:15:01,636 Speaker 1: a powerful thing. And I think there was also a 288 00:15:01,676 --> 00:15:05,036 Speaker 1: really interesting like sick teacher who talked about this. You 289 00:15:05,116 --> 00:15:07,676 Speaker 1: told a story about grew R. John who was using 290 00:15:07,676 --> 00:15:10,116 Speaker 1: this idea of sweetness in the miss of something really terrible. 291 00:15:10,156 --> 00:15:12,956 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if you'd share that story. This is 292 00:15:12,996 --> 00:15:16,916 Speaker 1: like one of those stories that for me felt so 293 00:15:16,956 --> 00:15:19,836 Speaker 1: far fetched most of my life, at least as a 294 00:15:19,916 --> 00:15:23,876 Speaker 1: kid growing up. The short version of the story is 295 00:15:24,436 --> 00:15:29,036 Speaker 1: he is imprisoned, as many religious leaders and prophets are, 296 00:15:29,476 --> 00:15:31,996 Speaker 1: he ends up being imprisoned by the state, and their 297 00:15:32,036 --> 00:15:35,316 Speaker 1: intention is to either have him take back what he 298 00:15:35,436 --> 00:15:39,076 Speaker 1: said or to have him executed, and as part of 299 00:15:39,116 --> 00:15:43,556 Speaker 1: the path towards that decision point, they torture him. And 300 00:15:43,596 --> 00:15:48,756 Speaker 1: as he's being tortured, he is singing this composition, these 301 00:15:48,796 --> 00:15:53,156 Speaker 1: lines that say dada kia metanage which means God, whatever 302 00:15:53,196 --> 00:15:56,556 Speaker 1: you do that feels sweet to me. And again, like 303 00:15:56,636 --> 00:15:59,116 Speaker 1: to go back to it's what we were saying before, 304 00:15:59,196 --> 00:16:02,036 Speaker 1: like it's it's at least in my read of the tradition. 305 00:16:02,156 --> 00:16:05,276 Speaker 1: It's not to say that he didn't feel pain. Of 306 00:16:05,276 --> 00:16:07,036 Speaker 1: course he did, right, I mean, at least in my 307 00:16:07,156 --> 00:16:11,356 Speaker 1: view of it. He's human. But there's a difference between 308 00:16:11,356 --> 00:16:14,236 Speaker 1: pain and suffering, right, he wasn't suffering in that moment. Like, 309 00:16:14,276 --> 00:16:16,756 Speaker 1: the pain was there, the hardship was there. I mean, 310 00:16:16,876 --> 00:16:20,436 Speaker 1: not an ideal position for any human being, but even then, 311 00:16:20,876 --> 00:16:24,156 Speaker 1: his experience of it was through sweetness. And you know, 312 00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:26,276 Speaker 1: going going back to your question about ikon Gar, like 313 00:16:26,316 --> 00:16:29,596 Speaker 1: how does this idea of oneness sort of tie into 314 00:16:29,596 --> 00:16:32,916 Speaker 1: this experience? And I think, you know, part of what 315 00:16:32,996 --> 00:16:36,636 Speaker 1: I understand from sick philosophy is that if we can 316 00:16:36,716 --> 00:16:41,196 Speaker 1: move beyond the binaries that so often dictate our lives, Right, 317 00:16:41,436 --> 00:16:44,276 Speaker 1: a truly wise person, as we learn in our tradition, 318 00:16:44,796 --> 00:16:49,636 Speaker 1: is someone who sees gold and iron as ali right there, 319 00:16:49,676 --> 00:16:53,396 Speaker 1: the same thing. There's there's no evaluation difference. That truly 320 00:16:53,436 --> 00:16:57,116 Speaker 1: wise person is someone who sees the humanity in a 321 00:16:57,116 --> 00:17:00,796 Speaker 1: friend and in a stranger, and the teaching is actually 322 00:17:00,876 --> 00:17:02,996 Speaker 1: we can get to a point where we don't see 323 00:17:02,996 --> 00:17:06,796 Speaker 1: strangers anymore at all. Right, everyone is familiar in a sense, 324 00:17:07,476 --> 00:17:10,396 Speaker 1: and I think it's that experience of the oneness that 325 00:17:10,556 --> 00:17:14,556 Speaker 1: has enabled me, in the context of really intense racism, 326 00:17:14,916 --> 00:17:17,516 Speaker 1: to be able to find the humanity in people who 327 00:17:17,596 --> 00:17:20,236 Speaker 1: don't see my humanity right Like, they think I'm the 328 00:17:20,236 --> 00:17:22,796 Speaker 1: worst person in the world, and they'd rather not be here, 329 00:17:22,796 --> 00:17:24,436 Speaker 1: and they tell me to go back to my own 330 00:17:24,436 --> 00:17:27,196 Speaker 1: country or whatever, And of course it annoys me, and 331 00:17:27,316 --> 00:17:29,916 Speaker 1: of course I wish they didn't see me that way, 332 00:17:30,156 --> 00:17:31,836 Speaker 1: but I don't have to be in a place where 333 00:17:31,876 --> 00:17:36,516 Speaker 1: I am reflecting that anger and ugliness back to them. 334 00:17:37,156 --> 00:17:39,556 Speaker 1: To me, it's it's only really been possible through this 335 00:17:39,636 --> 00:17:44,676 Speaker 1: teaching of radical oneness and interconnectedness. But of course, you know, 336 00:17:44,716 --> 00:17:47,236 Speaker 1: even with the teaching of radical oneness, it's really hard 337 00:17:47,276 --> 00:17:49,476 Speaker 1: to put that into practice, you know, especially if you're 338 00:17:49,636 --> 00:17:52,716 Speaker 1: like your actual humanity is being attacked in some cases. 339 00:17:53,036 --> 00:17:54,916 Speaker 1: But I think this is a spot where sick wisdom 340 00:17:54,996 --> 00:17:57,556 Speaker 1: is also really helpful, because it's not just a bunch 341 00:17:57,556 --> 00:18:00,916 Speaker 1: of teachings about things like radical oneness and chartique law 342 00:18:00,996 --> 00:18:03,436 Speaker 1: and things like that. There's also a really emphasis on 343 00:18:03,556 --> 00:18:07,316 Speaker 1: how specifically you can put these things into practice. So 344 00:18:07,396 --> 00:18:10,156 Speaker 1: talk about this idea, Vidia, I said, it m this 345 00:18:10,316 --> 00:18:12,836 Speaker 1: idea of knowledge. Yeah, it's it's it's so cool that 346 00:18:12,836 --> 00:18:15,876 Speaker 1: you bring this up because in our daily prayers. I 347 00:18:15,916 --> 00:18:18,996 Speaker 1: have two young daughters and we're teaching them every morning 348 00:18:18,996 --> 00:18:23,316 Speaker 1: as we walk to school, we practice the morning prayers 349 00:18:23,356 --> 00:18:25,076 Speaker 1: and they're learning them and then we talk through what 350 00:18:25,116 --> 00:18:27,556 Speaker 1: they mean. And one of the one of the teachings 351 00:18:27,556 --> 00:18:29,556 Speaker 1: today that we were just talking about. So it's it's 352 00:18:29,556 --> 00:18:33,956 Speaker 1: a really timely question is about exactly this question. And Grunani, 353 00:18:34,076 --> 00:18:38,276 Speaker 1: the founder of the Sick tradition, is critiquing scholars and knowledge. 354 00:18:38,356 --> 00:18:41,396 Speaker 1: And you know, for me, as a historian and the scholar, 355 00:18:41,676 --> 00:18:43,436 Speaker 1: it's kind of a slap in the face anytime I 356 00:18:43,436 --> 00:18:45,716 Speaker 1: think about it. But he's he's saying, like, you you 357 00:18:45,716 --> 00:18:48,476 Speaker 1: can read as many books as you want, you could 358 00:18:48,476 --> 00:18:51,116 Speaker 1: read boatloads of books, you could collect all the knowledge 359 00:18:51,156 --> 00:18:54,196 Speaker 1: in the world. If you don't put that knowledge into practice, 360 00:18:54,196 --> 00:18:56,396 Speaker 1: if you don't use that to to advance your own 361 00:18:56,396 --> 00:18:59,436 Speaker 1: life or to serve other people, than who cares, right, 362 00:18:59,436 --> 00:19:01,716 Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't really make a difference. And so 363 00:19:01,956 --> 00:19:04,956 Speaker 1: his point really is that knowledge is not the path 364 00:19:04,996 --> 00:19:08,436 Speaker 1: to liberation, and really what takes you there is wisdom. 365 00:19:08,516 --> 00:19:11,116 Speaker 1: That's the Juck position, right, John is the term that 366 00:19:11,156 --> 00:19:14,236 Speaker 1: we use. And so it's really interesting to me, as 367 00:19:14,276 --> 00:19:18,396 Speaker 1: I'm raising these kids and collecting my information and knowledge 368 00:19:18,396 --> 00:19:21,636 Speaker 1: as a scholar, to recognize that, you know, it has 369 00:19:21,716 --> 00:19:24,236 Speaker 1: limited purpose if we're not thinking about how to leverage 370 00:19:24,236 --> 00:19:27,556 Speaker 1: it for our own growth and for justice within the world. 371 00:19:28,156 --> 00:19:30,956 Speaker 1: And so this mirror is exactly a fallacy in the 372 00:19:31,076 --> 00:19:33,716 Speaker 1: psychological literature that's known as the Gi Joe fallacy. The 373 00:19:33,756 --> 00:19:36,116 Speaker 1: fallacy didn't go back as far as Greu Nanak, but 374 00:19:36,116 --> 00:19:39,076 Speaker 1: it went back to the eighties and Gijoe the cartoon. 375 00:19:40,076 --> 00:19:41,996 Speaker 1: So if you remember the cartoon, and the cartoon had 376 00:19:41,996 --> 00:19:44,716 Speaker 1: this famous public service announcement at the end where gis 377 00:19:44,756 --> 00:19:46,476 Speaker 1: Joe says, you know, now you know, and knowing is 378 00:19:46,516 --> 00:19:47,916 Speaker 1: half the battle. I don't know if you're a child 379 00:19:47,956 --> 00:19:49,396 Speaker 1: of the eighties like me. You're a little bit younger 380 00:19:49,396 --> 00:19:52,156 Speaker 1: than me, so maybe you do. Yeah, I am Gijoe 381 00:19:52,236 --> 00:19:54,636 Speaker 1: is a thing in South Texas, I imagine, but yeah, 382 00:19:54,636 --> 00:19:56,356 Speaker 1: but this is this idea that we think, right like, 383 00:19:56,436 --> 00:19:59,276 Speaker 1: knowing is half the battle, but the cognitive science work 384 00:19:59,356 --> 00:20:01,356 Speaker 1: suggests that that's not the case. Knowing is not half 385 00:20:01,356 --> 00:20:03,596 Speaker 1: the battle. You can know all these principles about what 386 00:20:03,636 --> 00:20:05,476 Speaker 1: you should do to be happy, you know, do your 387 00:20:05,516 --> 00:20:08,556 Speaker 1: gratitude list, meditate, whatever it is, But unless you actually 388 00:20:08,636 --> 00:20:10,836 Speaker 1: do that stuff, unless you put it into practice, that 389 00:20:10,956 --> 00:20:13,876 Speaker 1: knowledge isn't really changing anything about how you feel and 390 00:20:13,876 --> 00:20:15,996 Speaker 1: the well being that you experience. And so I love 391 00:20:16,076 --> 00:20:17,956 Speaker 1: that you know, sick tradition was kind of on top 392 00:20:17,996 --> 00:20:20,596 Speaker 1: of this really early on, but also that they have 393 00:20:20,676 --> 00:20:22,876 Speaker 1: lots of practices that help you with this. And I 394 00:20:22,876 --> 00:20:25,236 Speaker 1: think one of the things I find so fascinating is 395 00:20:25,236 --> 00:20:27,756 Speaker 1: that just the act of what you wear can be 396 00:20:27,796 --> 00:20:30,076 Speaker 1: a reminder to put these things into practice, just the 397 00:20:30,076 --> 00:20:32,316 Speaker 1: act of kind of wearing your turban. I know you 398 00:20:32,356 --> 00:20:34,516 Speaker 1: had a story in the book about realizing, you know, 399 00:20:34,676 --> 00:20:36,796 Speaker 1: that wearing your turban is a time when you really 400 00:20:36,876 --> 00:20:39,076 Speaker 1: need to be putting these springs into practice. I'm thinking 401 00:20:39,116 --> 00:20:42,156 Speaker 1: specifically of the story with your mom and the incident 402 00:20:42,236 --> 00:20:44,476 Speaker 1: in the store. Oh my god, I hate that story. 403 00:20:44,556 --> 00:20:47,196 Speaker 1: I will tell it, but I will also tell you 404 00:20:47,236 --> 00:20:49,396 Speaker 1: that until I wrote this book, I'd never told anyone 405 00:20:49,436 --> 00:20:52,076 Speaker 1: because I felt so much shame around it. And you 406 00:20:52,116 --> 00:20:56,076 Speaker 1: know it's it's kind of one of these moments in life, 407 00:20:56,116 --> 00:20:58,236 Speaker 1: and we all have them in our own ways where 408 00:20:58,316 --> 00:21:02,316 Speaker 1: we sort of connect the dots between how we're living 409 00:21:02,716 --> 00:21:05,596 Speaker 1: versus how we want to be living and what it 410 00:21:05,676 --> 00:21:08,996 Speaker 1: really means to be aware of our own hip hop 411 00:21:09,116 --> 00:21:12,636 Speaker 1: percy or imperfection and to want to do better. But 412 00:21:12,676 --> 00:21:17,036 Speaker 1: the embarrassing story, which I understand is not like the 413 00:21:17,076 --> 00:21:19,756 Speaker 1: worst thing in the world ever, but it's for whatever reason, 414 00:21:19,876 --> 00:21:24,036 Speaker 1: I feel guilty about it still. I'm at the grocery 415 00:21:24,036 --> 00:21:26,276 Speaker 1: store with my mom and where at the cash register, 416 00:21:26,396 --> 00:21:28,476 Speaker 1: and you know how they have those candies set up 417 00:21:28,676 --> 00:21:32,196 Speaker 1: at the front. I'm probably like ten twelve years old, 418 00:21:32,996 --> 00:21:34,956 Speaker 1: and when she's not looking, I grab I grab a 419 00:21:34,996 --> 00:21:37,276 Speaker 1: chocolate bar, a Snickers bar to put them up. And 420 00:21:37,316 --> 00:21:38,916 Speaker 1: I one of the funny things about it is I 421 00:21:38,956 --> 00:21:41,356 Speaker 1: don't even really like Snickers. Like I didn't even like 422 00:21:41,396 --> 00:21:42,796 Speaker 1: it then, I don't like it now. It's just like, 423 00:21:43,156 --> 00:21:46,636 Speaker 1: you know, the temptation is there, you give in, and 424 00:21:46,956 --> 00:21:49,956 Speaker 1: I gave in, and my mom taught me trying to 425 00:21:49,996 --> 00:21:54,756 Speaker 1: put it in my pocket, and you know, I'm mortified. 426 00:21:55,356 --> 00:21:58,996 Speaker 1: We don't say anything. She's shocked, Like I come from 427 00:21:58,996 --> 00:22:01,516 Speaker 1: a family of four boys, Like, she probably saw a 428 00:22:01,636 --> 00:22:04,676 Speaker 1: lot of stuff that most parents never want to see. 429 00:22:05,276 --> 00:22:07,316 Speaker 1: But this was not the type of thing that any 430 00:22:07,356 --> 00:22:10,636 Speaker 1: of us had really dealt with. So she's horrified. She 431 00:22:10,676 --> 00:22:13,596 Speaker 1: doesn't say anything. I don't say anything. She pays for it. 432 00:22:13,716 --> 00:22:18,356 Speaker 1: We go don't talk for like, we go home so awkward, 433 00:22:19,116 --> 00:22:21,836 Speaker 1: and eventually I go to her room to apologize, and 434 00:22:22,196 --> 00:22:25,716 Speaker 1: she started to get into this really unexpected territory for me, 435 00:22:25,796 --> 00:22:27,756 Speaker 1: Like I thought I was going to yell at me 436 00:22:28,116 --> 00:22:31,156 Speaker 1: or around me, or whatever our punishments were, and instead 437 00:22:31,196 --> 00:22:33,876 Speaker 1: she starts getting into this conversation about my turban, and 438 00:22:34,476 --> 00:22:36,116 Speaker 1: she's like, do you know why you wear a turban? 439 00:22:36,276 --> 00:22:38,196 Speaker 1: And you know, I didn't know what she wanted to 440 00:22:38,236 --> 00:22:40,436 Speaker 1: hear them moments didn't. I didn't really answer her and 441 00:22:40,556 --> 00:22:42,076 Speaker 1: was going to give her this space to say what 442 00:22:42,156 --> 00:22:45,836 Speaker 1: she needed to. And she started to talk about this tradition, 443 00:22:45,956 --> 00:22:48,916 Speaker 1: this memory in our tradition that I hadn't really heard before, 444 00:22:48,916 --> 00:22:50,836 Speaker 1: at least I hadn't thought about it in this way, 445 00:22:51,076 --> 00:22:55,676 Speaker 1: about how, in short, the decision to start wearing turbans 446 00:22:55,796 --> 00:22:59,476 Speaker 1: had to do with a moment in which the sick 447 00:22:59,476 --> 00:23:02,796 Speaker 1: community did not stand up for their values and hold 448 00:23:02,796 --> 00:23:06,156 Speaker 1: themselves accountable to them, and the leader at the time 449 00:23:06,316 --> 00:23:08,316 Speaker 1: basically said, we are never going to be in that 450 00:23:08,396 --> 00:23:10,476 Speaker 1: kind of position again. We are not going to be 451 00:23:10,476 --> 00:23:12,796 Speaker 1: able to hide from who we are and who we 452 00:23:12,836 --> 00:23:16,236 Speaker 1: say we are. And so from now going forward, people 453 00:23:16,236 --> 00:23:17,796 Speaker 1: are going to know us. And so you're going to 454 00:23:17,836 --> 00:23:21,236 Speaker 1: start wearing these turbans. And so for me, this was 455 00:23:21,756 --> 00:23:27,556 Speaker 1: an unexpected direction of the conversation. It was a tradition 456 00:23:27,716 --> 00:23:29,996 Speaker 1: and a memory that I hadn't really thought of before. 457 00:23:30,396 --> 00:23:33,076 Speaker 1: And then my mom goes, yeah, so maybe if you 458 00:23:33,116 --> 00:23:35,756 Speaker 1: can't handle that, like maybe you should stop wearing a turban. 459 00:23:35,836 --> 00:23:39,036 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh shit. My whole life she's 460 00:23:39,076 --> 00:23:40,676 Speaker 1: been like, don't listen to people when they tell you 461 00:23:41,236 --> 00:23:43,396 Speaker 1: to take it off or to stop wearing it, right, Like, 462 00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:45,676 Speaker 1: don't give into that. And all of a sudden she's like, 463 00:23:45,716 --> 00:23:48,396 Speaker 1: maybe you don't actually deserve to wear one. And that 464 00:23:49,716 --> 00:23:53,116 Speaker 1: how hard that hit me? That statement in the context 465 00:23:53,156 --> 00:23:55,036 Speaker 1: of what she was trying to say, like really lifted 466 00:23:55,116 --> 00:23:57,636 Speaker 1: up for me that maybe there was more to this 467 00:23:57,876 --> 00:24:00,556 Speaker 1: cloth that I wrapped on my head and then hey, 468 00:24:00,636 --> 00:24:04,276 Speaker 1: I belong to this tradition or my family lives in 469 00:24:04,356 --> 00:24:06,436 Speaker 1: this way or whatever. It meant to me up until 470 00:24:06,476 --> 00:24:08,596 Speaker 1: that point. Like all of a sudden, now it became 471 00:24:09,236 --> 00:24:12,636 Speaker 1: a public announcement, like every time I walked out the 472 00:24:12,716 --> 00:24:15,556 Speaker 1: door of my house, these are my values. This is 473 00:24:15,636 --> 00:24:17,076 Speaker 1: what you can hold me to, This is what you 474 00:24:17,156 --> 00:24:20,116 Speaker 1: can expect of me, and to me. It's a challenge, 475 00:24:20,156 --> 00:24:22,356 Speaker 1: and I still feel like this every day when I 476 00:24:22,396 --> 00:24:24,036 Speaker 1: walk out the door. It's a challenge to live by 477 00:24:24,116 --> 00:24:26,116 Speaker 1: what I say I will, and then to move beyond 478 00:24:26,596 --> 00:24:30,716 Speaker 1: that gap between the aspiration and the actual daily behaviors. 479 00:24:32,036 --> 00:24:34,196 Speaker 1: At the start of this episode, we heard that Simran's 480 00:24:34,236 --> 00:24:36,876 Speaker 1: turban is a sign of difference that, along with his 481 00:24:36,996 --> 00:24:39,556 Speaker 1: beard and brown skin, has marked him as an outsider, 482 00:24:39,796 --> 00:24:43,676 Speaker 1: which has subjected him to lots of vile, racist abuse. Sadly, 483 00:24:43,836 --> 00:24:47,196 Speaker 1: has turban's true moral and historic significance is utterly lost 484 00:24:47,236 --> 00:24:50,916 Speaker 1: on his abusers. Publicly affirming our beliefs and intentions is 485 00:24:50,916 --> 00:24:54,276 Speaker 1: an important way to ingrain good habits. Simran's turban is 486 00:24:54,276 --> 00:24:56,356 Speaker 1: an outward sign that he intends to live by sick 487 00:24:56,476 --> 00:24:59,596 Speaker 1: teachings and research shows that this is a good strategy. 488 00:24:59,916 --> 00:25:01,916 Speaker 1: We're more likely to live up to our values and 489 00:25:02,036 --> 00:25:05,516 Speaker 1: moral aspirations if we like Simrin somehow make them public. 490 00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:08,716 Speaker 1: That might involve signing a pledge, or putting up a sign, 491 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:11,556 Speaker 1: getting a bumper sticker, or even wearing a T shirt. 492 00:25:11,756 --> 00:25:14,236 Speaker 1: It sounds cheesy, but the science shows that acts like 493 00:25:14,316 --> 00:25:16,836 Speaker 1: these can serve to remind us and others that we're 494 00:25:16,836 --> 00:25:20,636 Speaker 1: aiming to adopt and maintain particular habits and behaviors. But 495 00:25:20,756 --> 00:25:23,036 Speaker 1: it's worth noting that making all these habits and behavior 496 00:25:23,156 --> 00:25:26,396 Speaker 1: changes isn't easy. The evidence suggests that all of us 497 00:25:26,476 --> 00:25:29,636 Speaker 1: can find happiness by living the kinder, more connected life 498 00:25:29,676 --> 00:25:32,596 Speaker 1: that's celebrated by sickism, but it is a challenge that 499 00:25:32,676 --> 00:25:35,996 Speaker 1: requires constant work. So in the second of this two parter, 500 00:25:36,356 --> 00:25:38,836 Speaker 1: we'll talk to Symrin about how he tries to incorporate 501 00:25:38,916 --> 00:25:41,396 Speaker 1: the wisdom of sick gurus into each and every day, 502 00:25:41,956 --> 00:25:45,836 Speaker 1: even if that means compassionately confronting the very people who 503 00:25:45,916 --> 00:25:48,916 Speaker 1: abuse him. Yeah. I go to him and he's like, sorry, sorry, 504 00:25:48,996 --> 00:25:52,076 Speaker 1: I was just kidding. He must have been terrified. Yeah, exactly. 505 00:25:52,156 --> 00:25:55,076 Speaker 1: This was like a combination of teacher mode and dad mode. 506 00:25:56,076 --> 00:25:58,076 Speaker 1: So be sure to come back next time for more 507 00:25:58,116 --> 00:26:01,436 Speaker 1: happiness lessons of the Ancients with me, Doctor Laurie Santos, 508 00:26:09,356 --> 00:26:11,916 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is co written by Ryan Dilley and 509 00:26:12,116 --> 00:26:15,516 Speaker 1: is produced by Ryan Dilley, Courtney Guerino and Britney Brown. 510 00:26:15,916 --> 00:26:18,476 Speaker 1: The show was mastered by Evan Viola and our original 511 00:26:18,596 --> 00:26:23,036 Speaker 1: music was composed by Zachary Silver. Special thanks to Greta Kone, 512 00:26:23,356 --> 00:26:28,316 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Carl Migliori, Nicole Morano, Morgan Ratner, Jacob Weisberg, 513 00:26:28,596 --> 00:26:31,156 Speaker 1: my agent, Van Davis, and the rest of the Pushkin team. 514 00:26:31,836 --> 00:26:34,276 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries 515 00:26:34,356 --> 00:26:36,156 Speaker 1: and by me, doctor Laurie Santos.