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Speaker 1: Also media, Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast

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Speaker 1: about in cells, or at least that's what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about this week. The pipeline that led us as a society,

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Speaker 1: from Elliott Roger and the Ila Vista shooting in twenty

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Speaker 1: fourteen to clavicular and the trend of looksmaxing, which includes

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Speaker 1: hitting yourself in the face with a hammer to get hotter.

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Speaker 1: We'll be talking about all of that and explaining the

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Speaker 1: rest of it, but first let me reintroduce my wonderful

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Speaker 1: guest for these episodes, Kat Abougazella. Kat.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, Robert, Thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: having me.

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Speaker 1: How you doing, Kat? Are you? Are you running for

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Speaker 1: something America?

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Speaker 2: A marathon?

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Speaker 1: Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: There you go, There you go.

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Speaker 3: No, I actually haven't worked out since I launched my

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Speaker 3: congressional campaign, which is what I'm running for. So anything

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Speaker 3: beyond the flights of stairs it takes to get to

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Speaker 3: my apartment wins me. I'm so weak now, but only physically.

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Speaker 3: Mentally and spiritually we're strong. But yeah, I'm running for

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Speaker 3: Congress in the ninth District of Illinois. So if you

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Speaker 3: are in the Chicago area that goes from Uptown up

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Speaker 3: to Evanston, over to Skokie, and then all the way

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Speaker 3: to Crystal Lake in Algonquin. Election day is March seventeenth.

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Speaker 3: You can find my website at Catfillinois dot com.

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Speaker 2: That's Cat with the K.

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Speaker 3: We are a progressive populist campaign that's the only one

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Speaker 3: in this race supported by majority small dollar donations. Of

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Speaker 3: the three most viable candidates in this race, I'm the

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Speaker 3: only one that hasn't met with Apak and I also

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Speaker 3: have an orange cat named Heater. Yeah, and if everyone's

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Speaker 3: really good, I'll bring your on camera.

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Speaker 1: You are also the only person we have ever had

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Speaker 1: as a guest for this show who is actively like

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Speaker 1: running for office. You know, this being what it is,

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Speaker 1: it's not a not a thing we normally do. But

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Speaker 1: you have been a friend for quite some time, and

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Speaker 1: before you started running, I've always respected your work as

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Speaker 1: a journalist and as a researcher. And if anyone's going

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Speaker 1: to be in Congress, would prefer it be you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: As we all know, electoralism is the only way to

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Speaker 3: get out of this, the.

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Speaker 2: Only thing that we do.

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Speaker 1: Nothing else will fix this.

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Speaker 3: I thought you were going to say the only guest

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Speaker 3: under federal indictment and I was like, that can't no, hilarious, we.

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Speaker 1: Have we had Chelsea Manning on the show. I mean

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Speaker 1: she wasn't actively under an indictment. But speaking of indictments, wow,

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Speaker 1: actually not. There's not really much in the way of

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Speaker 1: indictments as a result of in cell stuff, because they

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Speaker 1: don't before they commit their crimes.

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Speaker 4: You made me nervous at the beginning because he said

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Speaker 4: Behind the Bastards a podcast about in cells, which is

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Speaker 4: exactly what will get clipped into the Google algorithm and

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Speaker 4: w people look up what behind the Bastards.

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Speaker 1: It's classic in cell podcast.

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Speaker 3: Look may I and we might be able to deradicalize

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Speaker 3: them this way, maybe ojoke, that might have multiple multiple

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Speaker 3: guys who have jacked off to my video explainers that

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Speaker 3: were like I was a Nazi and then your words

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Speaker 3: got through to me.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you don't need to share.

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Speaker 4: That, I guess keep it to yourself, but go off.

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Speaker 1: That's really one of those like okay, I mean you

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Speaker 1: get it out.

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Speaker 3: This podcast is about in cells. Yeah, listen to this

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Speaker 3: podcast if you are at in cells.

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Speaker 4: Right, if the AI summary Google does come up saying

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Speaker 4: that I'm gonna die, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Great, So the first key moment. If you're kind of

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Speaker 1: like doing the big bullet points of in cell history,

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Speaker 1: the first key moment would probably be the two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine founding of p ua hate dot com. The

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Speaker 1: second and most defining probably moment for the subculture was

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Speaker 1: the twenty fourteen mass killing by Elliott Roger. However, kind

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Speaker 1: of just jumping between those two points does leave out

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Speaker 1: something very important. It's just a it's I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: an act of violence that just isn't as famous as

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Speaker 1: what Elliott Roger did. But in two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: the same year that pua hate was founded, George Sedini,

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Speaker 1: a financial employee at a law firm, opened fire on

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Speaker 1: a woman's fitness class at a gym, and I think

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Speaker 1: this was in New York City. He killed three women,

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Speaker 1: and he injured nine other people and then shot himself.

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Speaker 1: At the time, The Guardian wrote that Sodini quote kept

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Speaker 1: a web page in which he wrote about years of

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Speaker 1: rejection by women and left behind notes describing his inability

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Speaker 1: to get a girlfriend. So Sadini wasn't in the strictest

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Speaker 1: sense an inceell right. As far as we know, he

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Speaker 1: wasn't a member of any of the in cell online communities.

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Speaker 1: That was barely a term, right, This was still the

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Speaker 1: start of two thousand and nine. Mostly people who would

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Speaker 1: like kind of were descendants from Alana's original in cell forum. Right,

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Speaker 1: this it had not pua hate had not even really

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Speaker 1: turned into a fully in cell thing quite yet. But

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Speaker 1: this is also very clearly still an in cell killing spree.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's the same set of motivations. He's blaming

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Speaker 1: what he's shooting anonymous women he doesn't know because he's

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Speaker 1: blaming women as a whole for the fact that he

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Speaker 1: hasn't found anyone and isn't happy. Right, So it's very

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Speaker 1: relevant and in cells, whether or not Sadini knew the

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Speaker 1: term in cell in cells that the in cells that

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Speaker 1: are like gathering and starting to form a community on

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Speaker 1: pua hate adopt him as one of their own. Before

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Speaker 1: Elliott Rodgers killingsprey, the term going Sadini was in semi

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Speaker 1: regular use on pua hate dot com. Right, Instead of

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Speaker 1: like today, they would say going er to talk about

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Speaker 1: someone who's going to like have a break and go

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Speaker 1: murder a bunch of people because they're a black piled

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Speaker 1: in cell. Before Elliott Rodger, they would use the term

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Speaker 1: going Sadini, you know, and a lot of people don't

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Speaker 1: know about this guy.

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Speaker 4: Just once, like correction, it wasn't New York. It was

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Speaker 4: actually a suburb of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: There you go, Pittsburgh, the New York of Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is the thing about mass shootings, and it's

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Speaker 3: like there are a lot of like ven diagrams here

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Speaker 3: of extremism. But almost every mass shooting in the twenty

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Speaker 3: first century has to do with the Great Replacement theory,

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Speaker 3: which is a white supremacist conspiracy theory that is anti Semitic.

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Speaker 3: That's its roots essentially saying that liberals, which is often

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Speaker 3: used as a stand in for Jews, are trying to

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Speaker 3: replace the electorate with black and brown people and or

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Speaker 3: but usually and blatant misogyny. And that's often also matched

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Speaker 3: with stalking. I say, as someone that has had to

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Speaker 3: deal with stalkers in the past, this is something that

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Speaker 3: so many women deal with and.

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Speaker 2: It's not really talked about.

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Speaker 3: There are very few legal restrictions against it. It is

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Speaker 3: one of the number one indicators for violent crime, for murder,

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Speaker 3: for extremist events, and it's one of these things like

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Speaker 3: in DC when I need to get an anti stocking order.

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Speaker 3: You literally have to figure out a way to serve

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Speaker 3: the order to your stalker. But it has you have

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Speaker 3: to find someone in your life because the police won't

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Speaker 3: serve it to the person that is stocking you.

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Speaker 1: Yep, yep, it's it's fucking sick. I can remember during

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Speaker 1: one of the times when I lectured to a class

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Speaker 1: at the American University about this kind of stuff, and

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Speaker 1: these are all mostly some of them were people who

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Speaker 1: are going to become journals. These are mostly people who

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Speaker 1: wanted to go and become like federal law enforcement, right

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Speaker 1: And it was very young class, primarily female. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about like right wing mass shooters, talking about

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Speaker 1: the Tree of Life shooting was a big one at

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Speaker 1: the time. But I'm also talking about some of these

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Speaker 1: in cell killings. And I specifically bring up someone I

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Speaker 1: knew who was being harassed by a right wing podcaster

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Speaker 1: who is on I played audio of him talking to

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Speaker 1: a caller who called into his show who was clearly unwell,

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Speaker 1: and him trying to go him into attacking and raping

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Speaker 1: a specific activist, like mentioning her by name, saying where

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Speaker 1: she lived and said no, no, I think she really

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Speaker 1: wants to date you. I think if you just go

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Speaker 1: up and like grab her and kiss her or whatever,

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Speaker 1: like she'll be into it. Like, so I played this

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Speaker 1: for them. It's very and he was talking. He went

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Speaker 1: a lot darker than that, Like he was insinuating like

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Speaker 1: rape and murder very directly. I wouldn't even say insinuating them.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, can anyone tell me what law was

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Speaker 1: broken here? Yeah, because there's nothing illegal about it and

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Speaker 1: nothing happened to the guy over that.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's serving, it's cool, it's good, it's so cool.

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Speaker 2: It's so sick.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like the amount of crap, especially like as

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Speaker 3: a woman online, but especially as someone covering the far

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Speaker 3: right online. I remember I did like a collage after

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Speaker 3: Phil Labonte, who is a Timpoole contributor, posted my Tinder

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Speaker 3: profile that he randomly saw because he had like the

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Speaker 3: Tinder premium so he could get past.

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Speaker 2: My age measures.

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Speaker 3: And it was just like weird shit about like sexually

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Speaker 3: enslaving me, raping me, like weird stuff about my feet,

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Speaker 3: and like my mom used to get really straight up

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Speaker 3: about it, and now like after years of doing this,

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Speaker 3: she's just like that's kind of like it's good training

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Speaker 3: for running for Congress, but like it also you're so desensitized.

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Speaker 3: I remember talking to a lawyer and having to be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that post where someone said they were gonna throw me

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Speaker 3: into a wood chipper and then masturbate over my remains,

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, and they were like, you just said that

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Speaker 3: really normally, But that's what women have to deal with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's this when I hear fucking Tom Homan

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Speaker 1: or whatever complain about like people saying mean stuff about

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Speaker 1: Ice online, Like, brother, the meanest shit I have seen,

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Speaker 1: like the most unhinged and op sec incautious leftist say

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Speaker 1: about Ice does not compare to like the most middling

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Speaker 1: shit my coat. My female co workers have dealt with

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Speaker 1: them like YouTube comments.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I have to read this fucking quote to you.

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Speaker 3: This is written by like, I think it's one Chicago

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Speaker 3: cop that pretends he's a bunch of different people on

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Speaker 3: this website called the Chicago Contrarian say literal post that

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Speaker 3: he made where he calls me the wonder woman of Woke.

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Speaker 3: He also wrote another one that was like really horny

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Speaker 3: about how seductive my voice is. But Kat has a

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Speaker 3: dangerous opinion of Ice. This week, while she was a

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Speaker 3: guest on a local podcast, Abugisoli denigrated ICE absurdly. Most

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Speaker 3: of the violence that ICE seems to commit on camera,

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Speaker 3: especially the most aggressive and egregious instances, are against unarmed women.

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Speaker 3: And it's because these men are weak. They feel incompetent,

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Speaker 3: they're angry because they're not as big strong as they'd

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Speaker 3: like to be. They sure look big and strong to

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Speaker 3: me and her sob stories about enduring pepperballs and being

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Speaker 3: tear gas by ICE deserve no sympathy, all because all

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Speaker 3: I admitted to the host that she openly mocks ICE

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Speaker 3: agents at the Broadview protest, which years such as this one,

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Speaker 3: did you get your outfit at Spirit Halloween? Those ICE

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Speaker 3: officers are putting their lives on the line every day

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Speaker 3: they report to work. What does this tell you about

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Speaker 3: Kat and how she would conduct herself as a legislator, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: there they can't. Men are afraid of being mocked, women

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Speaker 3: are afraid of being murdered.

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Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, I uh yeah, I wish

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Speaker 1: I had more to add to that, but yeah, justice, yep,

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Speaker 1: that's all very tied to this, right because these are

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Speaker 1: if these in cells are the women murderers, right, That's

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Speaker 1: what they get famous for doing. That's why we just

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Speaker 1: talked about like the kind of three key early moments

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Speaker 1: and in cell history, and two of the three moments

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Speaker 1: are mass killings of women by angry men, and that

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Speaker 1: is that's the whole reason people know what in cells

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Speaker 1: are is Ali Roger. You know, pre Elliott Roger, the

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Speaker 1: only people who were aware of the in cell subculture

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Speaker 1: were like really incredibly online weirdos. And this was even

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Speaker 1: to the point, like there were not in twenty fourteen

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Speaker 1: nearly as many people who were like extremism researchers in

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Speaker 1: digital communities. I was kind of tangentially aware of poa

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Speaker 1: Hate dot com because I was interested in like the

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Speaker 1: pickup artist community and those weirdos. So I was aware

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Speaker 1: that there were like people who were radical and very

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Speaker 1: like misogynistic and angry that pickup artistry hadn't worked for them.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think I think probably ninety nine percent

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Speaker 1: of people learned about in cells for the first time

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Speaker 1: because of Elliott Rogers, like spree killing, right, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you got to remember too, that's earlier in twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Gamergate doesn't start until August of twenty fourteen. So for

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Speaker 1: the public. Even the idea that there were huge, organized

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Speaker 1: groups of men online who just wanted to harass and

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Speaker 1: do violence to random women they don't know that was

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Speaker 1: not common knowledge. If you were a woman who made

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Speaker 1: stuff for the Internet, you were aware of aspects of

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Speaker 1: this certainly, But a lot of this becomes really clear

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Speaker 1: to people for the first time because Elliott Roger doesn't

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Speaker 1: just kill a bunch of people, but before he does it,

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Speaker 1: he posts his one hundred and forty one page manifesto

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Speaker 1: on puoa hate dot com immediately before he starts his rampage.

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Speaker 1: And I've had to read this thing several times over

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Speaker 1: the years. I mean, I've reported on aspects of it

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Speaker 1: a bunch and I hate having a quote from it.

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Speaker 1: But it is integral. It's like a foundational document for

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Speaker 1: the in cell subculture, and the whole thing is written.

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Speaker 1: If I had to describe like the tone of the prose,

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Speaker 1: Elliott Roger wrote like the villain from a Saturday Morning

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Speaker 1: cartoon or a really badly written anime. Here's the opening

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Speaker 1: lines of his manifesto, Humanity. All of my suffering on

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Speaker 1: this world has been at the hands of humanity, particularly women.

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Speaker 1: It has made me realize just how brutal and twisted

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Speaker 1: humanity is as a species. All I ever wanted was

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Speaker 1: to fit in and live a happy life amongst humanity,

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Speaker 1: but I was cast out and rejected, forced to endure

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Speaker 1: inn existence of loneliness and insignificance, all because the females

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Speaker 1: of the human species were incapable of seeing the value

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Speaker 1: in me. And that really, that's almost a perfect one

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Speaker 1: paragraph summary for blackpilled in cell ideology as a whole. Right,

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Speaker 1: That's that's all of it, pretty much right there. Yep, yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I had friends that were at UCSB at the time,

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Speaker 4: and it changed their lives forever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, of course, it's fucking horrifying.

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Speaker 4: It's horrific.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that kind of frustrated me

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Speaker 1: because this happens, I catch myself up. I read the manifesto,

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Speaker 1: and I noticed that a lot of normal people's reaction

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Speaker 1: to the shootings and the videos Roger posted because he

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Speaker 1: didn't just post a manifesto on poa hate dot com.

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Speaker 1: He also posts like a video manifesto on YouTube before

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Speaker 1: his spree, and he had a bunch of videos he'd

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Speaker 1: been posting videos for like months or years beforehand, and

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Speaker 1: people were shocked when they see them because they're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: but this guy's like an in cell, which are like

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Speaker 1: weird nerds who can't get dates. But he's like a

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Speaker 1: reasonably good looking guy that doesn't make any sense. And

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Speaker 1: then they find out his dad was rich. His dad's

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Speaker 1: like a producer in Hollywood, so his family's got money.

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Speaker 1: So I see a lot of responses being like, well,

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Speaker 1: why is this guy an in cell? Right, you'll see

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Speaker 1: a picture if you're not if you haven't seen one

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Speaker 1: of Elliott Roger, we'll have one up on the screen

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Speaker 1: right now. But like, he's not like you wouldn't think

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Speaker 1: twice seeing this guy.

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Speaker 2: In that particular.

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Speaker 1: He looks a little like curticular right, Like he's not

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Speaker 1: a he's not a bad looking guy. He's like, but

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Speaker 1: he's he's certainly not someone you would like notice, you know,

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Speaker 1: whereas prior to this, if you would ask someone like

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Speaker 1: for like the stereotype of a basement dwelling, you know,

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Speaker 1: in cell virgin or whatever, which was an insult people

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Speaker 1: made about people who were too online. Right, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that's a good thing to call some there's nothing

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Speaker 1: wrong being a virgin or whatever. There's nothing wrong with

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Speaker 1: not having sex. But these were terms people used. They

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Speaker 1: were confused by the fact that he seemed to look

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Speaker 1: pretty normal, and they didn't expect that. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's evidence of one of the biggest shortcomings with a

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Speaker 1: lot of early coverage of insults, which is that coverage

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Speaker 1: did not emphasize enough. This is not a community for

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Speaker 1: guys who just can't get a date and who just

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Speaker 1: aren't very social. This is a community for men who

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Speaker 1: have constructed an ideology that tells them it is mathematically

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Speaker 1: impossible for them to find love, and that fact makes

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Speaker 1: some of them homicidal. Right. That is a really key

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Speaker 1: aspect of what's going on here, is how delusional it is.

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Speaker 1: Elliott seems to us, as far as we can tell,

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Speaker 1: you know, based on what we know from people who

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Speaker 1: you know, interviews, the people who knew him, and from

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Speaker 1: his own writings. He's had a lot of trouble connecting

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Speaker 1: with people from a young age. His father is very successful,

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Speaker 1: and Elliott grows obsessed with the trappings of wealth and fame.

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Speaker 1: He will on his videos he'll always point out his

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Speaker 1: nice way to watch his nice clothes, he's driving like

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Speaker 1: a nice new car, because he thinks that having these

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Speaker 1: things are all you need. If you're wearing nice clothes

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Speaker 1: and you have a nice car and you look like

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Speaker 1: you have money, women should just come up to you

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Speaker 1: and tell you they want to be with you. Right,

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Speaker 1: That's how it's supposed to work. And he doesn't put

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Speaker 1: any more work to it than that. Like he dresses

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Speaker 1: up and he'll show up at like bars and clubs

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Speaker 1: and parties and stuff, and he'll just stand in a

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Speaker 1: corner and not talk to anybody, and he feels like

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Speaker 1: something is wrong because, based on his understanding of the world,

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Speaker 1: all he should need to do is be rich and

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Speaker 1: good looking, and the fact that that isn't enough is

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Speaker 1: what starts him spirally right.

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Speaker 4: On this.

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Speaker 3: It's so like, so much of this I know, I

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Speaker 3: just keep being like sexism, Like obviously, yes they're in cells,

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Speaker 3: but so much of this is like just putting the

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Speaker 3: burden on women, Like you want women to come up

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Speaker 3: to you, You want women to immediately like you. You want

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Speaker 3: women to do X, Y and Z, like when people

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Speaker 3: are like the male loneliness epidemic is like when people

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Speaker 3: talk to me about it, I'm like, what are you

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Speaker 3: doing to connect with the men in your life? I mean,

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Speaker 3: we have a lot of young male volunteers, and I

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Speaker 3: don't think it's because they're like, it's because we give community.

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Speaker 3: And I remember asking in our Discord we go to

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Speaker 3: spaces where they are like Discord being like, hey, does

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Speaker 3: anyone want to help us build some shelves? And we

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Speaker 3: had like eight dudes, all under thirty, show up and

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Speaker 3: help us build shelves and they barely talk to me.

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Speaker 3: They all just build shelves together, and then they're all

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Speaker 3: still volunteers to this day.

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Speaker 4: It's awesome.

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Speaker 3: There's just like, yeah, there's but there's so much of

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Speaker 3: it that's like we tell men that they're only worth

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Speaker 3: is what they can provide and how they can, you know,

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Speaker 3: project strength, and then we punish vulnerability and we say

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Speaker 3: we took away all the ability to be able to provide.

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Speaker 3: We say you can't have a good income, you're going

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Speaker 3: to be stuck with student debt, you aren't able to

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Speaker 3: even afford to get married, to have a family. And

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Speaker 3: then people like Steve Bannon were able to capitalize on

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Speaker 3: that in these online spaces and now by saying like look,

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Speaker 3: it's because of brown people, or black people, or women,

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Speaker 3: usually women. And it's just so fucked up how every

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Speaker 3: single part of in cell ideology puts the onus on

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Speaker 3: the woman. It's the woman's responsibility to find you attractive.

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Speaker 3: It's the woman's responsibility to come up to you. It's

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Speaker 3: the woman's responsibility to make your dick feel good. It's

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Speaker 3: the woman's responsibility to blah blah blah blah blah with

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Speaker 3: absolutely zero responsibility for yourself.

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Speaker 1: That's the fucking thing that is most toxic I think

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Speaker 1: about it, and also most explains most which go at

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Speaker 1: what's going on, because I think back to when I

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Speaker 1: was a young man, when I was like a teenager,

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Speaker 1: like I was a huge narrative, spent all his time online.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't good at talking to women like I had

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Speaker 1: your getting dates and I could have. I think if

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Speaker 1: I'd come across different people and fall into different communities,

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Speaker 1: wound up in a much darker place. And I got

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Speaker 1: lucky enough that I've talked about this before. They're like

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Speaker 1: World of Warcraft. I made friends online with a bunch

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Speaker 1: of like women in their twenties and thirties who and

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Speaker 1: this is key. It's not just that, Like, there were

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Speaker 1: women who were friends with me when I said something

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Speaker 1: fucked up because I was like a seventeen year old

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Speaker 1: boy in two thousand and five, they would call me

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Speaker 1: out on it. Yeah, And part of my responsibility was

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Speaker 1: that I listened to them. It was my responsibility to

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Speaker 1: listen to what they were saying and make changes to

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Speaker 1: myself based on the feedback. Once people losen to me,

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Speaker 1: Hey saying that's bad, Hey saying that's messed up. Hey

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Speaker 1: doing that makes people not feel comfortable around you, I

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Speaker 1: changed the way I behaved because that's like.

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Speaker 2: And I have you supposed to grow as person?

400
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Speaker 4: I have unexperienced all the time. And sometimes it's it's

401
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Speaker 4: in the sense where they listen, they hear, they take accountability,

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Speaker 4: and sometimes it's not. And it's trending more towards not

403
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Speaker 4: lately and especially on the Internet, and I just think

404
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Speaker 4: that we really need to start listening to women.

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Speaker 3: Patriarchy at its worst, and it's like very indicative of

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Speaker 3: the modern conservative all conservative movements frankly, where it's like

407
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,719
Speaker 3: this persecution complex that is inherent because other people are

408
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,159
Speaker 3: getting equality or because there are material conditions that the

409
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 3: ultra wealthy have made worse and you need someone to

410
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Speaker 3: blame instead of taking responsibility for yourself. And if you

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Speaker 3: are already, especially like a white heterosexual, assist gender man,

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Speaker 3: it is a lot easier to just blame it on

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Speaker 3: someone else.

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Speaker 1: Again, Yeah, I think the thing that is most frustrated

415
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Speaker 1: to me is that that lack of any sort of

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Speaker 1: personal accountability, right, you.

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Speaker 4: Have to be able to take.

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Speaker 1: You as a man, And that was so weird to me.

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Speaker 1: It's like I was raised with some pretty toxic attitudes

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Speaker 1: about masculinity about like a man's responsibility. Sure, but it

421
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Speaker 1: was never taught. I was always taught that, like it

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Speaker 1: is important that you listen to other people when they

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Speaker 1: tell you, hey, that made me feel uncomfortable, or hey,

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Speaker 1: that made me feel bad, and alter your behavior because

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Speaker 1: it's bad to make people feel uncomfortable. And if someone

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Speaker 1: tells you that you fucked up and you need to

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Speaker 1: look at yourself and make changes.

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Speaker 4: Right, for sure, And I've had many I.

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Speaker 1: Don't understand how that is just not a thing for

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Speaker 1: so many people.

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Speaker 2: For somebody who want to I was just gonna say.

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Speaker 4: I've had so many interactions where it's like I take

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Speaker 4: into account that maybe they don't know better, and so

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Speaker 4: when somebody says something that's like inappropriate, but I don't

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00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 4: think I even give them the benefit of doubt where

436
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 4: you're like, hey, I just want you to know I

437
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 4: don't think you meant it in this way, but the

438
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 4: wording you used made me an X y Z feel uncomfortable.

439
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 4: I think you should really think about how you're choosing

440
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 4: to use words so that you're not coming across this

441
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 4: way and it's like that's nice, that's normal, that's it.

442
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 4: If somebody said that to me, I've been like, oh shit,

443
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 4: you're right. I didn't fucking mean it that way. My bad,

444
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 4: and learn from it. But so many people, if you

445
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 4: say that to them, instead of them being like oh shit,

446
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 4: they're like, fuck you bitch, And it's like crazy, but

447
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 4: it's so common.

448
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I think a lot of it as like

449
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 3: as someone that was born in ninety nine, like the

450
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: older gen Z. A lot of it comes from like

451
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 3: the complete elimination of third spaces, like we just don't

452
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 3: interact with people anymore. We don't like I wasn't allowed

453
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 3: to play in the front yard because my dad was

454
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 3: worried I get kidnapped, which definitely wasn't gonna happen, uh,

455
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 3: And so there's just like all of this distance. And

456
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 3: so I spent a lot of my you know, middle

457
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 3: high school time like on the internet, like pre Yahoo, Tumblr.

458
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 3: I made so many friends there. And for me, the

459
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 3: spaces I was in actually opened my eyes to a

460
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 3: lot of things that were different from like my conservative upbringing.

461
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 3: But it's not the same for others. And if you

462
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 3: end up in these spaces, and I'm sure, I know

463
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 3: we're gonna go into algorithms later, but like algorithms that

464
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 3: are geared to make sure that you get into these

465
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,239
Speaker 3: toxic spaces, then those are the people that are shaping, uh,

466
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 3: who you are and what you're thinking. If that's the

467
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 3: only experience you get because you're not doing anything in

468
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 3: person anymore, yep.

469
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: At that?

470
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And my god, and my god, is it

471
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 4: okay to say that you messed up and learn from

472
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 4: something and change and work on yourself and evolve.

473
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: How can you understand stuff like how working out works right,

474
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 1: which is like you try to do something and it's

475
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: too hard for you, so you like make changes and

476
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: build up steps until you can do the thing that

477
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: you previously couldn't do. How can you understand that about

478
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: like lifting weights but not that like, well everything kind

479
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: of works that way, Like you need to be evaluating

480
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: yourself and how you are influencing and impacting people, and

481
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: how people are responding to you, and if you're like

482
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: making people uncomfortable or sad or scared or you need

483
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: to like change like not so voids. Yeah, I don't

484
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,719
Speaker 1: get the dis Yeah anyway, but we've talked enough about this.

485
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: I think we've gotten the point across. Yes. Back to

486
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: Elliott Roger, So when he wrote about his experiences in college,

487
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: Like he gets to college, and he's very clear from

488
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: his writing about college he's not interested in learning anything.

489
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: He's not even interested in having a social life in

490
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: the traditional sense. He's only interested in the girls at college.

491
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 1: And his only thought at all times is that they

492
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: are not having sex with ordating him, right, Like that's

493
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: his whole college experience, is being frustrated that he's surrounded

494
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: by young women who are not interested in him, and

495
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: this is all of college to him, there's no other

496
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: point to being there. Quote in my history class, I

497
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: had a crush on a really pretty girl, only to

498
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: find out that she had a boyfriend and in my

499
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: psychology class, there was this group of popular kids who

500
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: acted obnoxious the whole time. One of them was a

501
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: very pretty blonde girl, and she actually enjoyed associating with

502
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: the obnoxious boys in her clique. The injustice I hated

503
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: them all And yeah, that's like the inability to see

504
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: that like Okay, yeah, you think they're obnoxious, but like

505
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: they're having fun, Like maybe she just likes having fun

506
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: with these guys who aren't like weirdly staring at her

507
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 1: from the corner and clearly furious at all times.

508
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 4: Or maybe you thought they were obnoxious and they actually weren't.

509
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe maybe just being a dicky have similar

510
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: making friends or getting a date? Is that like anytime

511
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: he sees a woman he finds attractive at school or

512
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: out in public, he's driven into visible fits of rage,

513
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: Like this is a guy who was upsetting to be around,

514
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: because you can tell he's like one step away from

515
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: committing violence anytime he sees a girl with another guy.

516
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: He wrote about one time when he went to lunch

517
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: with his dad and flipped out after seeing a mixed

518
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: race couple. The sight of them enraged me to no end,

519
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: especially because it was a dark skinned Mexican guy dating

520
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: a hot, blonde white girl. I regarded that as a

521
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: great insult to my dignity. How could an inferior Mexican

522
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: guy be able to date a white blonde girl while

523
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: I was still suffering as a lonely virgin. I was

524
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: ashamed to be in such an inferior position. In front

525
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: of my father. When I saw the two of them kissing,

526
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: I could barely contain my rage. I stood up in anger,

527
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: and I was about to walk up to them and

528
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: pour my glass of soda all over their heads. I

529
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: probably would have if father wasn't there just every red

530
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: flag there could possibly be. And you see, that's the

531
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: result of this weird lookism race science stuff is like, well,

532
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 1: but it's impossible for all blonde girl to love a

533
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: Mexican man, and I'm whiter than he is. I should

534
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 1: be in line before he like these weird They've created

535
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: the system of physics about how relationships work, and the

536
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: fact that it does not reflect reality at all is

537
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: part of what drives these people mad. Not in like

538
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: a clinical sense. I'm being you know, it's a euphemism,

539
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: but like that, Yeah, speaking of Elliott Rodgers' Dad, probably not.

540
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: Here's here's ads anyway, that was a failure. Didn't like it,

541
00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: kind of like Elliott Rodgers Dad, Yeah, so we're back.

542
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: I should be obvious from that last quote. His parents

543
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: are aware that something is wrong, like his dad sees

544
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: him like overcome with rage to the point of trying

545
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: to like physically accost a couple for kissing. But they don't.

546
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: They also like they're not good parents. They don't spend

547
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: a lot of time with their kids. They're certainly not

548
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time communicating honestly with Elliott. And

549
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: in fact, when his dad sees this and is like, oh,

550
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: my son might be on the verge of doing something

551
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: crazy and violent, his solution is to give Elliot Roger

552
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: a copy of The Secret.

553
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 4: Oh my god, incredible stuff.

554
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: Now, the core of the Secret is what's called the

555
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: law of attraction. This is the pseudoscientific belief that by

556
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: thinking and stating your intentions, you can literally make things

557
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: happen because your thoughts magically shape the nature of reality.

558
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: Elliot is initially drawn to this idea and immediately declares,

559
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to become a millionaire quote, so I could

560
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: live a luxurious life and finally be able to attract

561
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: the beautiful girls I covet so much. I wish to

562
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: make up for the years of youth that I wasted

563
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,719
Speaker 1: in bleak loneliness, and by doing so, I would get

564
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: revenge on everyone who thought they were better than me,

565
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: just by becoming better than them through the accumulation of wealth.

566
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: I believe that the only way for me to attain

567
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: this wealth at the time was to win the lottery,

568
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: and that is what I visualized doing.

569
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know this was a point, But he's such

570
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: a bad writer.

571
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: He's such a bad writer, and he's such a just

572
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: a dummy. I don't want to spend more time on him.

573
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: But this irrational mindset, this is a very irrational mindset.

574
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: It's important to get inside and both see that. Well,

575
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: this isn't all irrational because of bad internet stuff. The

576
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: Secret was the most popular book in America for a while,

577
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: and that played a role in how like And you

578
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: know his dad is rich and successful and in high

579
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: like a lot of this is not just a failure.

580
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: And I don't want to paint what happened to Elliott

581
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: Roger and what he did is this is just because

582
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: of the mean old Internet. This is a kid with

583
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: deeply toxic parents who's also been exposed to a lot

584
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: of very toxic things through other elements of the culture

585
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: that have nothing to do with the Internet, and it

586
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: all forms part of what happens next right now, Obviously,

587
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: the secret doesn't work for Elliott. He also tries to

588
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: work out in the gym and get buff, and that doesn't,

589
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, help him pick up any ladies. He spends

590
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: a lot of time though, on bodybuilding dot COM's board,

591
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: and he presumably tries pick up artistry because he winds

592
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: up posting regularly on puwahete dot com. Now, he doesn't

593
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: say much about pickup artistry, like, there's not really anything

594
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: that directly about it in the manifesto. I don't remember anything,

595
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: and I did like a word search, I couldn't find

596
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: any related terms. So the only way that we kind

597
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: of know there was he was other than the fact

598
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: that he's posting in puway hate. The reason we know

599
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: that he at least was familiar with pickup artistry tactics

600
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: is that in his videos in manifesto, he would make

601
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: regular references to betas a term that he would use

602
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: to insult men. He disliked, and he wrote about like

603
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: I need to act cocky and arrogant to try and

604
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: attract women, which is a common pickup artist strategy. So

605
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: there's evidence again that he's in this community, but we

606
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: don't know did he like pay for classes, how into

607
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: it was he, that's kind of unclear. But for whatever reason,

608
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: pua hate the website appeals to him. Immediately he saw

609
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: it as quote, a forum full of men who are

610
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: starved of sex, just like me. He starts reading up

611
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: on lookism right, and he becomes aware of like some

612
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: of these theories that they've started to craft, and he

613
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: writes that these quote confirmed many of the theories I

614
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: had had about how wicked and degenerate women really are.

615
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: The members of pua hate wrote a lot about Elliott

616
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,479
Speaker 1: Roger too, in the wake of his spree killing per

617
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: an article about the online reaction to his shooting and slate.

618
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: When news of the shooting broke, poa Hate members attempted

619
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: to absolve themselves by critiquing Roger's sex appeal, short lower

620
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: third and gay midface with zero browridge. One decided ridiculing

621
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: his mother's looks and scrambling to assert authority among themselves.

622
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: Only high t guys should be allowed to give advice here.

623
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: Can you add that as a rule, one poster said.

624
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: Another poster suggested that Roger was such a beta that

625
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: no one would care if he'd murdered people. No one

626
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: gives a shit about some socially deprived, narrow clavical twink

627
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: with a delusional sense of self. He's a poser, he said.

628
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: Nothing will come of this, you sensationalist losers. Certainly not

629
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: national coverage. Just one of the wrongest end cells to

630
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: ever be a wrong in cell. Yeah, there are also

631
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: some very gross responses from the pickup artist community because

632
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: the fact that he posts manifesto on paa hate dot

633
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: com means that there's a lot of initial blame that like,

634
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: oh this guy like did pick up artistry helped cause

635
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: by leavist to shooting right? And then when you look

636
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: at the manifesto, he says very little about it, so

637
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys are like, well, he just

638
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: wasn't into it enough. Slate's Amanda has reported at the

639
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: time that one website strategic dating coach posted that Roger

640
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: quote should have gone to our website and got our

641
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: personal dating coaching or purchased one of our products. Great stuff.

642
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: I love the idea of just like, wow, there's been this.

643
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: This guy just wanted a killing spree and murdered a

644
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,479
Speaker 1: bunch of people. I should advertise my dating coaching system

645
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: first reaction. Of course, of course, that's what I do

646
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: after every tragedy. Right as soon as COVID hit, I

647
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: was like, look, guys, I know this, this plague is

648
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: a real problem, but I can teach you how to

649
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: pick up ladies. Didn't make a lot of money off

650
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: of that one. I don't know why. Twenty twenty bad

651
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: time to be giving dating advice. Shocking stuff. This is

652
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: a bad way to lead into what I'm going to

653
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: talk about next. But yeah. Four years after the Ilevista shootings,

654
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: Canadian Alec Manassian drove a rental van into a crowd

655
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: in Toronto, killing ten and wounding fourteen people. Police noted

656
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: the victims were predominantly women. Before launching his attack, Aleck

657
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: posted this to Facebook private recruit Manassian Infantry zero zero

658
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: zero one zero, wishing to speak to Sergeant four Chan please.

659
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: The in cell rebellion has already begun. We will overthrow

660
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: all the Chads and Stacey's all hail the supreme Gentleman,

661
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: Elliott Roger. That's you know, it's the kind of thing

662
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: that would be more worthy of mocking if he hadn't

663
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: killed ten people, but he did. You know, Like, it's

664
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: this this fucking thing with the Internet where it's this

665
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: mix of well, that's just absurd, and also so many

666
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: people are fucking dead and have their lives forever change

667
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: because of this fucking asshole. So these are the only

668
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: three attacks that we're discussing these episodes, but they're not

669
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: the only in cell related killings. But it is important

670
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: that the massive media response to specifically Roger and the

671
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: Nassian spree killings cemented the public image of an in

672
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: cell and ironically guaranteed they inceells a shocking degree of

673
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: cultural influence from then on, especially because Roger does this

674
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: while posting a manifesto. It gets in seldom's foot in

675
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: the door culturally in a very weird way. And part

676
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: of what's happening is people are horrified by these attacks,

677
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: but they're also reading shit like what Alec Manassian posts

678
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, that's just ridiculous. On some level.

679
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: The way these PEO people talk is like very silly

680
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: as scary as it is, and for whatever reason that

681
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: kind of makes people adopt I think initially ironically, but

682
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: a lot of people start adopting the elaborate terms that

683
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: in cells are using, and it starts filtering out even

684
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: a chunks of the Internet that have nothing to do

685
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: with in cells. One of my sources for these episodes

686
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: is the twenty twenty five book al Go Speak by

687
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: linguist Adam Alexic. His book is broadly about Internet slang,

688
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: and particularly how algorithmic censorship on social media has altered

689
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: online speech patterns and how that has changed the way

690
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: that people talk in the real world. He spends a

691
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: lot of time though in his book, talking about in cells,

692
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: because it turns out they hit way above their weight

693
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: class when it comes to linguistic influence in forums like

694
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: pua hate and specific sections of four Chan, which also

695
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: becomes a major in cell hub. It's later than like

696
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: those first couple of big web forums, but it's also

697
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: like larger in a lot of ways. They start cooking

698
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: up new terms. This is where we get worse, like mogging,

699
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: which simply means to best or to outclass someone in

700
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: a visible way. Merriam Webster notes it was originally used

701
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: to praise one man as being taller, more muscular, or

702
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: more stereotypically handsome in direct comparison to another man. This

703
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: is really a result of the deep in security at

704
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: the core of a lot of these guys. Anytime they

705
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: see a photo where there's like a very muscular guy

706
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: and then like someone who's not as muscular, Oh, he's

707
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: getting mogged like that, The Chad is mogging on this beta, right,

708
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: It's most like, well, these are just two guys of

709
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: slightly different sizes standing next to each other. They can

710
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: kind of only conceive of human relationships in patterns of

711
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: dominance and violence, which is a really important thing to note.

712
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: But this idea of like a chad mogging a beta

713
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: is not just influential in like online terminology. It gives

714
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: us some of the like to this day whitest spread

715
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: memes online. Like there's a bunch of major like chad

716
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: versus beta meme formats that all come out of the

717
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: insult culture in this period. We'll have a couple on screen,

718
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 1: but you've probably you've definitely seen in these. One is

719
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: on one side, you've got like a drawing, usually like

720
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: without any color of like a bald guy with glasses

721
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: who's like yelling and crying, and the next to him,

722
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: you've got like the guy with the beard and his

723
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 1: hair is well koifed, and he's got like a strong

724
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: jaw and a thick neck, and he's like, that's the chad, right,

725
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: And you'll have the crying beta saying something ridiculous, in

726
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: the Chad will say something cool. And there's a million

727
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: ways that this this meme format gets used. Everyone's seen it, right,

728
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: And there's the the other version of it that I'm

729
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: sure you've all also seen, is you've got the illustration

730
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: of like the beta dude who's got like a shoulders

731
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: slumped and he's walking forward. And you've got the Chad

732
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: who's got like fucking golden hair in a triangle and

733
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: he's like buff. And it's kind of a funny drawing

734
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: of like a chad too, And you'll have like both

735
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: of them labeled in different ways. These can refer to anything.

736
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: Ninety nine percent of the time when either of these

737
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: memes are used, they have nothing to do with the

738
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: insult subculture. Right. I've seen this shit dressed up for

739
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: like fucking arguments about what engine is best, you know, wow,

740
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: But these are also if you know, those of you

741
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: seeing these online or recognizing them from what I'm saying,

742
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: these are some of the most widely spread meme formats

743
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: today and they come out of the in cell community.

744
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: That's very interesting. The in cell community also evinces using

745
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: the term cell at the end of a word to

746
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: add a negative context to another word. This starts with

747
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 1: terms to help members of the community differentiate various types

748
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: of celibates, like vole cells, voluntary celibates, or fake cells,

749
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: which are people who pretend to be in cells but

750
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: really have had sex at some point. And then of

751
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: course there are true cells, which are obviously the real

752
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: in cells you know, who actually have no hope. This

753
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: turns into a broader trend too, you can find Just

754
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: the other day, I was like talking about like prepping

755
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: with someone and they mentioned that, like, well, gasoline only

756
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: lasts like six months, and I was like, well, yeah,

757
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: if you're a gas cell, of course you're gonna have

758
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: to deal with gas expiring. Diesel max are stay winning, right,

759
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: you know. Bits like that are all over the fucking

760
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: place now and again generally completely detached from any of

761
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: their original usage. The term cucked also owes a great

762
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: deal of its modern use to in cells, although there's

763
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 1: a lot of cross pollination with the alt Right there.

764
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: I don't know that i'd say that predominantly comes in

765
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: as an in cell term, because I do feel like

766
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: a lot of it comes out of like the alt

767
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: right too, But I don't know. We can linguists can

768
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 1: argue over that one. Another incredibly influential term was maxing,

769
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: which starts being used by the non black pilled chunks

770
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: of the in cell community to describe a variety of

771
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: activities meant to increase their sexual market value. Working out

772
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: a lot and taking steroids is gym maxing. Going under

773
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: the knife to improve your looks is surgery maxing, and

774
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 1: the broader trend of lookism eventually evolves into looks maxing,

775
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: which will bring us to clavicular before too much longer

776
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: before we get there, I've had to emphasize so many

777
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: of these terms are not just in use across the Internet.

778
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: They're like common slang. Are a lot of very normal

779
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: gen z and gin alpha kids. Adam opens his book

780
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: Algo Speak by talking about a viral twenty twenty four

781
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: TikTok meme that's just somebody walking down a sidewalk in

782
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: Arizona with the text above on the screen. It's so

783
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: hard being a walk pilled cardio max er in a

784
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: car cell gas cut state like Arizona, And like it's

785
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: a joke. You're kind of both making fun of Arizona

786
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: being so fucking focused like cardependent, but you're also making

787
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: fun of in cells and the way they talk, right,

788
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: that's part of the bit. It's kind of fun to

789
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: talk that way.

790
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it sounds so fucking stupid.

791
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: Because it sounds so fucking stupid and silly, right, And

792
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: the fact that in Cells have invented all these terms,

793
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: so many bespoke words, and that they're always making new

794
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: ones isn't weird. I want to say that much right

795
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: up the front. For one thing. Subcultures like this are

796
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: heavy on the cult part for sure, and a major

797
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: dimension of cult dynamics is creating unique terms and phrases

798
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: that only means something to people in the cult. This

799
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: is how you separate cultists from the rest of society

800
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: and also isolate them. Now, there's not a cult leader

801
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: in the case of in Cells, but they do use

802
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: these terms as a way to determine who's a true

803
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: cell or not. Right, if you know how to use

804
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: the lingo right, you know, then maybe you're one of them.

805
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: But if you make an obvious mistake in how you're

806
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: using it, then they can tell you don't belong here. Right,

807
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: You're either new or you're an infiltrator. This is an

808
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: old thing and online communities. I can remember similar stuff

809
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: happening on different boards and something awful where it's like

810
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: if you post there and you don't know the posting

811
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: style and the in jokes they use, you immediately get

812
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: like found out as someone who doesn't belong right. Right,

813
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: So this isn't weird that in cells do this. But

814
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 1: what's confounding and is novel is how successful in cell

815
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: terms and means have been its spreading in normy culture.

816
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: Adam's book Algo Speak traces how this happened, starting from

817
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: in cell only spaces like pick up Artists Hate and

818
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: expanding out to four chan's R nine k board. As

819
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: Adam explains, an al Go Speak, let's start with their philosophy,

820
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 1: began in earnest four Chan. Despite the forum's earliest importance,

821
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: it remained a place where in cells mixed with normies.

822
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: The in cell's wiki page for r nine k, their

823
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: main discussion board on four chan, calls it a pseudo

824
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: in cellosphory in space. Although it was a medium for

825
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: some genuine in cell discussion, it was never purely an

826
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: in cell forum, and also served as a place for

827
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: people to pretend to be in cell and troll actual

828
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: true cells. Now this is interesting to me because the

829
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: fact that four chan is bigger and more vibrant as

830
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: a community and thus is a better place to post

831
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways than these tiny, little in

832
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: cell forms they don't get as much attention, is always

833
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: at war with the frustration at the fact that it's

834
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: also polluted by normies. Right, you get more attention, you

835
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: can spread your ideas to more people, but you're also

836
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: going to talk to a lot of folks who aren't

837
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: in cells and who just want to make fun of you.

838
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: And this kind of leads to an interesting variant of

839
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: what's called the toothpaste tube effect. And that's really what's

840
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: going on with all of this. And if you haven't

841
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: heard that term applied to online communities, I'll explain it here.

842
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: So the toothpaste tube effect comes out of research that

843
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: was done on pro am eurexia and eating disorder content,

844
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: which was some of the first stuff online that got

845
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: banned in an organized way. AOL and Yahoo start banning

846
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: pro anarexia content in two thousand and one and two

847
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: thousand and two, and this is among the earliest concerted

848
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,479
Speaker 1: efforts of online censorship of harmful communities. This continues for years.

849
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: In between February and March of twenty twelve, Tumblr and Pinterest,

850
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: both of which hosted a lot of thinspiration memes, announced

851
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: that they were also banning all such content. But no

852
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: matter how many big websites or how many social media

853
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: companies banned pro anarexia content, such sites and communities spread

854
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: and proliferated across the Internet and indeed across the world.

855
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: And this stuff in the aught starts to spread over

856
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: in a Europe, particularly into France, where it sparks panic

857
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: among legislators in the EU. They start pressuring social media

858
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: companies and web hosts to censor content that used specific

859
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: terms associated with pro eating disorder content. Unfortunately, this has

860
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: the opposite effect. Rather in reducing the prevalence of such

861
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: content and the size of such communities, it merely pushes

862
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: them to adopt new terms in order to escape censorship

863
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 1: and to find new hubs for their content. In twenty twelve,

864
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: researchers at the University of Greenwich published a paper in

865
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 1: which they mapped the French pro anarexia community over two

866
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: years using a webmining tool. They use this to build

867
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: a graph. Those of you on the video side of

868
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: it will see it right now. I'll describe it in

869
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: a second, but this graph represents communication patterns between different

870
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: nodes of the pro anarexia community, showing how users could

871
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 1: start from a single website with a relatively mild pro

872
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 1: eating disorder stance to escape censorship. So something that's soft

873
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: enough that it's not going to get banned, but from

874
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: that source get connected to nodes with much more and

875
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: much more extreme content. And you see how this happens

876
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: kind of the way that it's called the toothpastub effect,

877
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: in part because it kind of looks like you've got

878
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,240
Speaker 1: a big mass on one end and like a tiny

879
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: chunk of like the initial nods on the other, and

880
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: it looks like they've been squeezed in the middle to

881
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: push the big lob out right. That's kind of where

882
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: the name comes from coyally. Now, the authors of that

883
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: paper wrote, of the sites that has successfully escaped attempts

884
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: at censorship, survival involves turning inwards as these communities become

885
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: more entrenched. Survivors control major flows of information within clusters,

886
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 1: but do not bridge them. In terms of information circulation,

887
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: that favors redundancy. Subgroups of pro anorexia bloggers will exchange messages, links,

888
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: and images among themselves and exclude other information sources. Consequently,

889
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: any health information or awareness campaign is now less likely

890
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: to reach out to pro anorexia bloggers. If in twenty

891
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: ten such a campaign would target the websites in the

892
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: middle of the graph so that they relay the message

893
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: to the margins, in twenty twelve, the middle is virtually

894
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: deserted and the chances of spreading public health relevant information

895
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: are lower. Now again, this all come to be known

896
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: as the toothpaste tube effect. But what that means is

897
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: that there's a documented history of attempts to crack down

898
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: on digital subcultures that just turns those subcultures more extreme

899
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: and makes the more resilient to positive intervention. And we

900
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 1: definitely see this within cells. In the wake of these

901
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: initial killing sprees. There are numerous attempts to ban in

902
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: cell content right especially after Manassians attack. There's a bunch

903
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: of crackdowns and bands of different in cell communities online.

904
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 1: Several big forums actually shut themselves down because the people

905
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: running them are worried about attracting the attention of law enforcement.

906
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: But the first stage of the in cell response to

907
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: this was pure toothpaste tube effect. They find new places

908
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: online to gather, and they start coming up with new

909
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: terms that the algorithms aren't looking for so that they

910
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: can keep talking openly without people noticing. In cells, who

911
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: tired of socializing with normies on four chan's r nine

912
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: k board moved to Reddit, where the in cell subreddit

913
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: quickly accrued a huge audience as atom alexic rites. From there,

914
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 1: they slowly began pushing their philosophy and other subreddits. Forums

915
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: like these were evidently fruitful recruiting grounds, but the inceells

916
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: found their greatest success on the rate me subreddits, where

917
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: people would post pictures of themselves and ask for feedback. Here,

918
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: in cells were able to promote a more accessible version

919
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: of their philosophy by disguising looksmaxing language as helpful suggestions

920
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: and this is where things get in wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

921
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: it's crazy, rightly, And how much of this involves in

922
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: cell language meeting relatively normal people and they're just being like, oh,

923
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: that's kind of funny and adopting it. So the in

924
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: cell subreddit gets purged in twenty seventeen. At the time

925
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: of its death, it had about forty one thousand memberies.

926
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 4: Not soon enough Reddit, Not soon enough.

927
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: And after in cell our in cells died, as as

928
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: cat noted earlier, brain cells becomes the new in cell

929
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: gathering up. They just changed the name. Right, it's the

930
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: toothpaste tube effect and that is able to stay in

931
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: action until like twenty nineteen is when brain cells gets banned.

932
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 2: It was a big deal too.

933
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: It was a big deal, right, And it's like it

934
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: attracts a lot of outrage from insuls at the time.

935
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 1: And obviously these companies are proud of what they're doing,

936
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: but it doesn't stop anything, right, Like that's kind of

937
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: the issue. These are whack a mole attempts, but they

938
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: don't actually deal with the central problem, right, Like, yeah,

939
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: not that I'm against shutting down communities like this, but

940
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: it's simply not enough.

941
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:18,760
Speaker 4: They're shaving not waxing.

942
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's also they wait so long. You know,

943
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: at a certain point the damage is kind of done

944
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: right by the time anyone with power cares enough to

945
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: try to crack down on this stuff. The terminology in

946
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 1: some of the ideology has gone terminal within the Internet's

947
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: collective mind. It's broken containment. The creepy insel obsession with

948
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: statistics behind the statistics behind attractiveness meets this well of

949
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: deep insecurity at the center of social media, and very

950
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 1: strange stuff starts to happen. On the rate me subreddits,

951
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: quote posters were evaluated on pseudoscientific look as and beauty

952
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: standards like interocular distance and canful tilt and hunter eyes.

953
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 1: They were encouraged to improve their facial structure through ewing

954
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: and jaw surgery so they could mog others. Even once

955
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: the in cell subreddits were eventually shut down by Reddit

956
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: forms like rape me continued to normalize in cell jargon,

957
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: and mewing is basically putting your tongue in a specific

958
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: place so that like your jaw is more prominent. They

959
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: believe it like breathing through your mouth leads to you

960
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 1: having like a smaller jaw and stuff like that.

961
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 3: So fun fact about this, mewing is actually, like I

962
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 3: believe it technically is like an orthodontic measure. Yes, by

963
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 3: a guy whose last name was mew Right. So, like,

964
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 3: I have a lot of jaw issues, and I had

965
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 3: an appliance that broke because I've been grinding my teeth

966
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 3: so much and I can't afford to get a new

967
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 3: one till after the campaign. So like, technically at night,

968
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 3: when like I'm trying to make sure my jaw is

969
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 3: in the right place, that's like technically mewing.

970
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like it is a real thing.

971
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 2: And like I'm always mewing to mog Ben when we

972
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: go to sleep.

973
00:48:52,239 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: You know you're doing it to mob So Adam goes

974
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: on a note that ironically looks maxing, and a lot

975
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: of its terms and ideas get brought to TikTok first,

976
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: probably by young women who had picked up the terminology

977
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: from rate me in similar subreddits. Beauty influencers start adopting

978
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: a lot of these terms in order to rate each

979
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: other on their application of eyeliner or whatever. Right, oh,

980
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: this did a good job of reducing the interocular distance

981
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, like that's the way in which

982
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: it's being used. Often this is ironic and satiric, right,

983
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: Like these ladies are kind of making fun of this stuff, right,

984
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: and kind of making fun of themselves a little gently,

985
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: But it's also done genuinely sometimes, and it doesn't really

986
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: matter whether it's being done ironically or genuinely in any

987
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: individual case. The words and some of the concepts are spreading.

988
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of really cool community on the

989
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 4: internet where like there's like people being like, hey, I

990
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 4: have a big event coming up, but I'm doing my

991
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 4: own makeup, Like what do you think I should change?

992
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 4: Like what's my blindness on this? And like people are

993
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 4: you know, of course there's assholes everywhere, but people are

994
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 4: generally like pretty cool about it. Nice and it's like

995
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 4: a cool like internet community, not.

996
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: This no, well, and it's you know again most I'm

997
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: not trying to blame either, like fucking some beauty influencers

998
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: using these terms because they're funny. It's not bad, it's

999
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: just it also is part of this process by which

1000
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: these terms get more normalized, and it does increase the

1001
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 1: reaches some of this stuff, and a lot of these

1002
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: people probably don't even know where a lot of these

1003
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: terms entered the vernacular for the first time. Who's doing

1004
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: that kind of research. It's just something you saw online.

1005
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: It just seems like organically changing terminology.

1006
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1007
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: Now, while in cell terms and phrases are taking off

1008
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,919
Speaker 1: with normies, looks maxing grows increasingly popular, the dedicated true

1009
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: cell communities online are also getting more toxic at this

1010
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: point in time, Right, these are the guys who reject

1011
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: looks maxing. These are the guys who believe I'm doomed

1012
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: because I'm just too ugly to be helped. Per that

1013
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: study from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute quote. By twenty sixteen,

1014
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: in cell forums had largely moved away from the red

1015
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: pill philosophy towards the black pill. That shift coincided with

1016
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: a sharp increase in the toxicity of the language used

1017
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: in these forums, a phenomenon that was measured by the

1018
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: Google developed machine learning tool Perspective ABI in twenty twenty one.

1019
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: And We're not going to be talking a lot about

1020
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: kind of what happens to the black pilled in cells,

1021
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: you know, after this point. But I don't want to

1022
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: leave them out entirely because periodically you do see gasps

1023
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: from that community that go viral for something besides mass murder.

1024
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: One of the weirdest examples of this is the so

1025
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: called Oxford Study meme. Starting the summer of twenty twenty four,

1026
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: the phrase Oxford Study started popping up all over social

1027
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: media accounts owned by young Asian women. Per the Guardian quote,

1028
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: an Asian woman vlogging about her dating life and particularly

1029
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: about dating white men, gets commenters reacting to her updates

1030
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,439
Speaker 1: with the words Oxford Study. A young Asian student showing

1031
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: off her prom dress with her white boyfriend sees obligatory

1032
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: Oxford Study comment on her TikTok I can already hear

1033
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: the Oxford Study comments coming. One Asian woman captures the

1034
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: video of her dancing with her white partner. Now what

1035
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: does this mean? While this purported Oxford study is an

1036
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,720
Speaker 1: academic paper that is said to show that Asian women

1037
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: are increasingly dating white men instead of Asian men, this

1038
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: isn't real. The study doesn't exist. It's fake. It's a lie.

1039
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: In cells and MRAs created memes that claim to quote

1040
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: from this fake study with like fake quotes from it

1041
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: to spread this idea that because it's not like a

1042
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: real thing in any way that's like a problem. But

1043
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: they want to argue that this is like one of

1044
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: the biggest issues in societies, white men dating all of

1045
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: the Asian women, and so they start like lying and

1046
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: making up a fake study, and it spreads widely enough

1047
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,359
Speaker 1: that people will just start posting Oxford study whenever they

1048
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: see like a mixed race relationship like that.

1049
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 4: I seen that online and I had no idea what

1050
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 4: it meant, and.

1051
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: That that's where that comes from.

1052
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 4: So dumb yep.

1053
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 1: Anyway, let's get out of the black pill crew and

1054
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: talk about the real reason for this sea and looks

1055
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: maxing influencer Clovicular aka Braiden Peters, who is now one

1056
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: of the most viral assholes.

1057
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: Clavicular isn't his real name.

1058
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: No, no, no, which is tragic. It makes me want

1059
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: to ask him Clovicular he does? He does look like

1060
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: a Braiden strong Braiden energy. So, to return to the

1061
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 1: viral post that started all of this, Clovicular was mid

1062
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: Jester gooning when a group of foids came and spiked

1063
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: his cortisol levels. Is ignoring the foids while munting and

1064
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: moggingmoids more useful than SMV chadfishing in the club. Now,

1065
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 1: this post, as ridiculous as it is, may have been

1066
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: a joke. Probably was a joke, and it's joke. Probably

1067
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: a joke because it's making fun of something that definitely happened.

1068
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: On one of Clovicular's live streams in February. He was

1069
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: hosting a live video on kick while at ASU and

1070
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,399
Speaker 1: he went to a frat party. About three hours into

1071
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: his stream, he goes into this frat house. I think

1072
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: he's just trying to get away from people for a second,

1073
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: like talk to his audience, and he takes a selfie

1074
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: while he's in the house with the frat leader and

1075
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 1: the frat leader is like really buff and he's wearing

1076
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: like a muscle shirt and Clovicular is just like, oh,

1077
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: you've got me by a lot. I stopped jimming, right,

1078
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,240
Speaker 1: And it's a friendly interaction in the video, I think,

1079
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: But this gets written down like people online are like, oh,

1080
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: that guy frame mogged Clovicular right, Like yeah, because he's

1081
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: buffer you look at him, He's like yeah. Now, no

1082
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: one at the time thought this was significant, right, But

1083
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: a couple hours after this happens, someone on Twitter posts

1084
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: a clip of this interaction with the description Clovicular ran

1085
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: into a frat leader at ASU and got brutally frame

1086
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: mogged by him. And this comparatively simple sentence is so

1087
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 1: seemingly crazy that the Internet starts talking. And that's where

1088
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: you get that really ridiculous post. Right, he's making fun

1089
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: of the other post, kind of like that's at least

1090
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: one theory about it, because he's invented some terms here, right,

1091
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: just your gooning I don't think really existed. It is

1092
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: a term before that post. It's a combination to exist, oh, Ester, Sure,

1093
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, it as far as I can tell,

1094
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: it's a combination of Gester maxing, which is an insult

1095
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: term as we've talked about for being funny or entertaining

1096
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 1: to get attention from women and compensate from not being hot.

1097
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: Gooning is a term that initially meant masturbating to porn

1098
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: without coming for long periods of time, and is now

1099
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: just kind of a general term for like degeneracy, sexual

1100
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: degeneracy a lot of the like masturbatory sexual degeneracy a

1101
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: lot of the time. So gester gooning, despite the fact

1102
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: that it is a different term from gester maxing, kind

1103
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 1: of seems to mean the same thing as gester maxing

1104
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: gets used in a in an identical case. And as

1105
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: I noted, the cortisol thing is based on understanding that

1106
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 1: elevated cortical levels reduces testosterone. Right, So these are you know,

1107
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,399
Speaker 1: I think at this point everyone at least understands what's

1108
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: being said in both of those posts. I want to

1109
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: talk and kind of close these episodes out by talking

1110
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: a little bit about Clovicular himself, right, And I want

1111
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: to quote first from an article in The Loyal of

1112
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: Phoenix by Carlos Soto Angelot out Lola in the district.

1113
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Elpi has documented Clovicular's public discussion

1114
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: of drug use, specifically methan cocaine, extreme dieting, and body

1115
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: modifications as tools for maxing, raising alarms about how such

1116
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: messaging influences young audiences. In this sense, Clavicular is the

1117
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 1: prime example of monetizing insecurity by selling routines and advice

1118
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: such as the Clovicular system. And he does all this

1119
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 1: while reinforcing the in cell belief of worth being fixed

1120
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: by facial structure. So what you have coming full circle

1121
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: here is what starts as this organic attempt by people

1122
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 1: who just are having trouble connecting with other people and

1123
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: are not having the kind of relationships they want and

1124
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 1: really just want to help each other, turning into a

1125
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: bunch of men who are getting increasingly angry, angry that

1126
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: women don't like them, who invent this imaginary set of

1127
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: rules about structure and all this other stuff that like

1128
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: determines whether or not you can be loved, and that

1129
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: gets so out of hand that a bunch of people

1130
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 1: commit murder as a result of it. But because the

1131
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: terms are so ridiculous, they enter the mainstream and become

1132
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: used in all these like online rate me subreddits, and

1133
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: a group of grifters like Clavicular who want to sell

1134
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: workout routines and you know, dieting routines and guides to

1135
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: becoming better looking, realize that there's a lot of money

1136
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: in in cell shit, right, so you go from in

1137
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: cell start because a bunch of guys get pissed off

1138
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: that pick up artistry doesn't work, to in cell ideology

1139
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: is now being used to sell what is effectively the

1140
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: next generation of pickup artistry. Right.

1141
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 4: It's it's it's a circle, it's a circle of hell,

1142
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 4: It's a circle of hell.

1143
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: So we're going to end by talking about bone smashing, Sophie,

1144
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: because you had a strong reation reaction to that. Yeah yeah,

1145
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: bone smashing. So obviously bone is alive, like it's a

1146
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: living tissue, and it does regenerate itself, right, that there's

1147
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:08,439
Speaker 1: a process that.

1148
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 3: Generates itself so much harder and stronger and more masculine.

1149
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: Exactly. That's the idea, Like, the reality is your bones

1150
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: regenerate over time, right, And the idea behind bone smashing

1151
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: is if you like bash your face with the hammer

1152
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: around the jaw area, uh, it will like it will

1153
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: grow back stronger, Your bones will get stronger, and your

1154
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 1: jaw will get bigger. Right, that's yeah, that's smashing. Yeah, yeah,

1155
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: that's how it works. And this is I think misunderstandings

1156
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: on working out because like lifting, like weight training can

1157
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: make your bones larger and stronger, right, given enough time.

1158
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: But really, but huh your bones.

1159
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah you're but like yeah, like exercise like strength training.

1160
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: That's part of why like women deal with like bone

1161
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: density losses the age and are often advised like that's

1162
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: why strength it's why male or female as you age

1163
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: one of the biggest factors on whether or not you

1164
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: like maintain mobility and independence is whether or not you

1165
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: do strength training because in part it keeps your bone strong,

1166
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: which makes you must like much likely to like break

1167
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: them as you get older. Right, so from that actual

1168
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: science they take well, then obviously, if like working out

1169
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: over time and eating right makes my bone stronger, I

1170
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: can just bash my face with a mallet. My jaw

1171
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: bone will get bigger, right if you just keep doing it.

1172
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 3: And like the way that some of them describe it

1173
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 3: is almost like we're like, you're just like kind of

1174
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 3: like on all over your jaw, which is fucking crazy. Like, guys,

1175
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 3: what are we doing?

1176
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: Don't don't don't do it.

1177
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 2: Don't the doctor. But I can tell you not to

1178
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 2: do that.

1179
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. And there's a good article in The Conversation

1180
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: on bone smashing, bone smashing, broken bones, tooth loss and

1181
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: blood vessel damage or just a few of the harms

1182
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: of this bizarre tick doctrine. Uh, and I want to

1183
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: lead a brief I want to read a brief quote

1184
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: from that. There's no evidence that repeated blows to the

1185
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: face altered bone structure in humans, although research shows it

1186
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: may lead to changes in rats their bone structure and

1187
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 1: biomechanics are vastly different to humans. Not to mention, the

1188
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: animals in this study developed traumatic brain injuries as a

1189
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: result of these repeated blows, which.

1190
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 3: So sad thinking of like a little rat getting its

1191
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 3: bones were broken?

1192
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: Why are we doing that to rats? A second? Are

1193
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: we hidden rats in the face with mallets to see

1194
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: if bone smashing works? Wow?

1195
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 2: I'm make sure those rats can maugas?

1196
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh those rats are hot as hell, though, I mean,

1197
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: you can't take that away from the rats. Like those

1198
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: rats fuck? I mean definition their rats?

1199
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitional is the definition of a rat.

1200
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: Kind of well, I think breeding rapidly is kind of

1201
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: a core trade of rat.

1202
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 2: I associate that with more with like rabbits too.

1203
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, Sophie, what about do you think I'm

1204
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: a rat racist?

1205
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 4: I don't have a take on this.

1206
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 3: I think you should, And if you don't, then you're

1207
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 3: on the wrong side of history, that's right, the wrong

1208
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 3: sidemplicity complicity, Like, there's so much complicity here.

1209
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 4: I forget.

1210
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 2: I'm trying to say some starving.

1211
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: But kats, we deal with the fascists. This is the

1212
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: next big fight.

1213
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 3: This is the next big fight. Yeah, and Robert and

1214
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 3: I are gonna be an opposite side.

1215
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,919
Speaker 1: That's right. Do rats fuck? This is the next big

1216
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: culture war.

1217
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they don't fuck.

1218
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that, like the first thing that people

1219
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 3: think about when they hear RAT is fuck or trash.

1220
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 2: I think trash.

1221
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I will say trash is definitely first

1222
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: on the RAT list.

1223
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:37,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1224
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 4: See I think of the word snitch, but that's just me.

1225
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: Well, yeah that too, I guess.

1226
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's fair.

1227
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: All right, Kat, that's what I've got. I just wanted

1228
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 1: to end by talking about bone smashing.

1229
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 2: That's more fun, right, It's so much more fun than

1230
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 2: Elliott Roger.

1231
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 1: It's a lot more fun than Elliott Roger.

1232
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 2: It's a no, it's an honor to be back.

1233
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 3: And I'm thank you for picking something that's so up

1234
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 3: my alley that I got depressed at how many words

1235
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 3: I knew?

1236
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: You said? Yeah, yeah, I really hate it. Well, thanks

1237
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: for podmaxing with me.

1238
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 2: Do you wanna pod gooning?

1239
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: Do you wanna here?

1240
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 4: Do you wanna do you wanna goon your campaign for us?

1241
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: Real quick? Okay, Sophie, No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm

1242
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: gonna stap your We don't need to be using that

1243
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: term that way here.

1244
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 2: I'm lucky.

1245
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 3: No, yeah, so, ignoring what Sophie just said, Robert and

1246
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 3: I are back on the same side and we're against Sophie,

1247
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 3: which is not something I ever thought i'd say. I

1248
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 3: am running for Congress in the Night district of Illinois

1249
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 3: that goes from uptown Chicago up to Evanston West Skochie

1250
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 3: and then all the way to Crystal Lake in Algonquin.

1251
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 3: My website is catfro Illinois dot com.

1252
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 2: That's Kat with a K.

1253
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 3: The election is March seventeenth, so vote, go vote.

1254
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 2: It's the primary.

1255
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 3: It's one of the most progressive districts in the country,

1256
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 3: and uh, you can help make it even more progressive.

1257
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, all right, every buddy that's got to do

1258
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 1: it for us here at whatever podcast this is, you

1259
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: just listened to it, You remember, then? Am I don't.

1260
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:08,919
Speaker 1: I'm tired and also need to eat.

1261
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 4: Robert's gotta go buy some face mallets.

1262
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go face smash and then lunchmas.

1263
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 4: Wow, bye, everybody Bye. Behind the Bastards is a production

1264
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 4: of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media,

1265
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 4: visit our website. Cool zonemedia dot com or check us

1266
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 4: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

1267
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 2: You get your podcasts.

1268
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 4: Full video episodes, but Behind the Bastards are now streaming

1269
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 4: on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Remind me of Netflix.

1270
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 4: You don't miss an episode. For clips in our older

1271
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 4: episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube

1272
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 4: dot com slash at.

1273
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 2: Behind the Bastards.

1274
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 4: We love about forty percent of you, statistically speaking,