1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 8 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions. 10 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, and welcome to the podcast. 11 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 3: It's James today and I'm joined by Jenny Keaston, who's 12 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 3: a writer, activist and someone who's been in and out 13 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 3: of Northeast Syria for a long time working with the 14 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 3: women's movement, and today we're going to be talking about 15 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 3: the situation in North and East Syria since the fall 16 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 3: of the Asad regime, some of the conflict that has 17 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 3: been happening in a resistance of the SDF. Welcome to 18 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 3: the show, Jenny Eida. 19 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, First of all, it's not sure having him be 20 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: happy to be here. 21 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're welcome, of course. So I think if we 22 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 3: start off, people have been messaging me a lot of 23 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 3: various platforms about the the letter that Abdullah or Juland wrote, 24 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 3: and I don't want to dress that in its entirety 25 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 3: today because we've got something coming up on that we're 26 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 3: going to talk to some people from the Freedom for 27 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 3: Abdullah your campaign, but I do want to use it 28 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: as a jumping off point because I think it a 29 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: has reminded people, as we spoke about before the show, 30 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 3: that North and East Syria exists and the SDF exists, 31 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 3: which has been largely missing and like the legacy media 32 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 3: reporting on Syria, but b like there's been atrocious reporting 33 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 3: on what it means for the SDF, even though there's 34 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 3: a very clear answer to that. So for people who 35 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 3: have you been reading papers which either just ignore the 36 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 3: existence of the FDF entirely or speculate as to what 37 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 3: they're going to do when they've given a very clear answer, 38 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 3: could you explain to people like where this leaves the SDF. 39 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, no, So thanks for that. And yeah, I've 40 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: also been gay a lot of questions about chanslater, and 41 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: I'm really glad to hear that you guys are going 42 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: to program on it because Western media wants to reverce 43 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: it in this way. It's very snazzy and there's like 44 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: bolts with the blue and something crazy is happening. Really, 45 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: it's unfortunately it has to actually be talking about in 46 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: a kind of more long term and intelligent way that 47 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,119 Speaker 1: sets the context and like yeah, puts that and makes 48 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: things a bit more clear, because it is something with 49 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: a background and it's connected to a lot of things, 50 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: and of course that whole political process that a Jan's 51 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: recent statement is a part of. It's going to affect 52 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 1: the situation here in northern East Siria because the situation 53 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: here a lot of the time depends on the actions 54 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: of the Turkish state and on expansion. It is on 55 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: an aggression from there, and so as the political situation 56 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't changes, it will affect that. What it is not 57 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: is like a call or a statement that means that 58 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: the SDF has to lay down their arms and started 59 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: this thing. This is for several reasons, absolutely not what 60 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: it is. The main one of those being that the 61 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: SDF is not and never has. 62 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 3: Been the. 63 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: And that's something that they've tried many times over the 64 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: years to make it very clear, but unfortunately hasn't always 65 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: been like heard and acknowledged. And so whatever this statement 66 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: means that you guys will go into that in your 67 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: program whatever it is for the PKKA. But the situation 68 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: is not fair to stand. It's a different situation here, 69 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: and so the SDF is in a moment of like 70 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: a big question and a big change. But it's much 71 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: more to do with what's been happening in Syria politically, 72 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: and to do with the government and the interim government 73 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: had said, yeah, government that installed themselves here, and the 74 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: regime games, and of course the ongoing war and situation 75 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: of invasions that they're facing. So there's a lot of 76 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: big questions for the SDF. But I think it's important 77 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: right now that we don't kind of confuse and misunderstand 78 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: but this sort of parallel process that's going on. 79 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, And I think if people are hearing this 80 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 3: and you're new to the show, this is your first 81 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 3: time hearing the sea of acronyms that is the Ish 82 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 3: freedom movement. Academic you to The Women's War, which is 83 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 3: a series that Robert made. I have a book but 84 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 3: you can't read it yet, still editing it, or you 85 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: could listen to one of our numerous other if you 86 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 3: search for a Java or Northern East Syria or Syria 87 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 3: in our feed. I'm sure you'll find a lot to 88 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: explain those acronyms to you. But yeah, we've had this 89 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 3: situation right where since December, the situation in Syria has 90 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: drastically changed and we now have two state actors. Well, 91 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 3: we have lots of stay active. We always had lots 92 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 3: of state actors intervening in Syria, but we have this 93 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 3: new state actor in the Syrian state, right and I 94 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 3: think people if they're you know, if they're like reading 95 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 3: the New York Times or god forbid, seeing Charles Lister, 96 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: then that they'll have a certain vision of this that 97 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 3: sort of exempts the SDF. It sort of just ignores 98 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 3: this whole area of Syria and says like, oh, well, 99 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,239 Speaker 3: the Syrian Revolution has succeeded. I think we should address 100 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 3: like what has happened to the SDF to northern East 101 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: Syria since the collapse of the said regime in December. 102 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, so obviously what's happened toy Syria in northan As 103 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: Syria and t SDF is very connected to the whole 104 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: overall Syria process. And you're right when you hear the 105 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: reporting on it, I think lots of parts of it 106 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: can get erased in kind of depending who's talking and 107 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: what their angle is or whatever. There are a lot 108 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: of things left out, not just the Kurds in north 109 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: of Eassyria, but other minority ethnic groups or like women 110 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: organizing across Syria, like all of these things. It's a 111 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: very complex situation, which I won't pretend I can completely 112 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: lay out and summarize for everyone in five minutes. But yeah, 113 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: what you did have was the culmination the end of 114 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: a period and a massive change when as you say, 115 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: there was a regime change, there was a change of government, 116 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: and that happened with this like offensive sweeping down from 117 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: Idland to Damascus, succeeding in taking over the government in 118 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: Damascus from the Asad family, which was the end of 119 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: a sixty one year brain which caused absolute jubilation, say 120 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: to say, all across Syria, and that includes where I 121 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: am and lone from Syria because anyway, just yeah, people 122 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: were very happy and celebrating. But also there were cities here. 123 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: When you look at the map and you see this 124 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: like sending autonomous region, what you had to understand was 125 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: that there were actually within the cities, there were neighborhoods 126 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: and sections that were still under the ASAD government. It 127 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: wasn't as simple as like the whole city is in 128 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: the autonomous administration. So here as well, even there were 129 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 1: still statutes of a Sad and people took the streets 130 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: and tore them down, and really close to actually where 131 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: I'm recording this today, there's a roundabout where they took 132 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: down the statue of a Sad and it's been replaced 133 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: by pictures of the martyrs of people who have fallen 134 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: fighting for the autonomy of the region here and fighting 135 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: for their political system. So you know, it's very very beautiful. Yeah, 136 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: people celebrated and more happy with a qualifier, with a 137 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: very big qualifier, you know. So that jails opened as 138 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: well and the flags went up, and yeah, it was 139 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: a real moment of jubilation, celebration. But unfortunately the force 140 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: which eventually succeeded in toppling a Sad and installing itself 141 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: as the now as they're saying that interim or transitional 142 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: government Syria, you know, we can say it was not 143 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: one of the many like progressive democratic alternative forces that 144 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: originally in the uprisings weakepped the A SAD government. Yeah, 145 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: back in twenty and eleven. Since then, things have changed, 146 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: and isn't a podcast directly about that. I'm sure you 147 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: guys speak about it as well at other times, but 148 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: instead what you have is HTS, who are kind of 149 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: conglomerate militia of these different militia groups. There's another acronym 150 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: for you there names I. 151 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 3: Think, yeah, three languages acronyms. 152 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: Pointing people to resources is always very useful. And they 153 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: are kind of mixed up amalgamation of different militias who 154 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: are operating in Syria. And what's crucial to say about 155 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: them is that they're you know, their political back and 156 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: a perspective. A lot of people in these organizations are 157 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: like really really similar unfortunately and all too familiar to 158 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: the people here who fought against ISIS, the Islamic State, 159 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: because they're coming from similar backgrounds, and also to al 160 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: Qaeda and the organizations who were kind of the Syrian 161 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: branches of al Qaeda. But like, I've played a really 162 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: direct role in finding HTS and they want to now 163 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: sort of put on a new face, put on a suit, 164 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: go out and shake the world's had it and become 165 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: world statesmen from the government, which unfortunately it looks like 166 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: all of our governments are all too willing to very 167 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: quickly accept. And we'll get in a minute we can 168 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: talk a bit specifically about the roles that and almost 169 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: your listeners are in the States, so that the American 170 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: government has been playing here. But yeah, so there's a 171 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: big qualifier on how much people are celebrating because of 172 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: the very dodgy history and the real like threat the 173 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: xts's politics holds unfortunately, particularly for ethnic minorities, on women, 174 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: and they're established their power and it's by no means 175 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: a kind of non violent or peaceful process, and there's 176 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: a lot of tensions flaring up with a lot of problems. However, yes, 177 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: it is the case that in a lot of Syria, 178 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: the majority of Syria outright like warfare on the ground 179 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: as for an asstop because there's one group have taken 180 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: power and so we're in a different moment, we're in 181 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: a different kind of process. So what's different up here, 182 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: what's different up in the north and East, and what's 183 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: not being discussed as much. And the point that I'm 184 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: often trying to make, what I'm trying to write articles 185 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: and doing interviews at the moment is that like actually 186 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: the war in the whole Syria has not completely stopped. 187 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: YEA mostly yes, you can say in most regions, but 188 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: significantly here in northern Eastyria. It's not just that there 189 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: is still classes or flare ups between different groups like 190 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: there might be in other regions. There is like a 191 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: full scale invasion, a ground invasion with air support that 192 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: has also been going on. Yeah, and that was tied. 193 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: Where has that come from? Like what is that? Ones 194 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: that look like this is another group another history letter 195 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: had drill in for you. But the important thing to 196 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: understand is that this offensive was tying to coincide with 197 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: the HCS takeovers. Also has a lot of links with 198 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: the Perkish state, and I wouldn't I personally would bot 199 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: those with bars to say that that government is a 200 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: Turkish public government or that the relationship is that direct. 201 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: But there is a relationship there and what you saw 202 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: when they kind of successfully went on the offensive was 203 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: at the same time, other armed groups which operate are 204 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: kind of loosely affiliated and mostly operating on a mercenaries 205 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: of a paid basis rather than being kind of ideologically 206 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: driven or whatever, but are affiliated under the name the SNA, 207 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: the Syrian National Army, which is even more confusing because 208 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: they're not and were never the National Army of Syria 209 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: what they are. And yet these paid militias, which yeah, 210 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: we can describe if he might describe as hard as gangs, mercenaries, 211 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, and it kind of depends that 212 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: it's like a mix of different forces. What's very important 213 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: there is the very close relationship that they have with 214 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: the Turkey state that essentially the Turkish government has made 215 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: the choice that it wants to continue its aggression and 216 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: its expansionism onnotany Syria, and other than immediately sending their 217 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: own army, they instead pay and fund and direct and 218 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: support these militias who are also operating for their own benefit. Yes, 219 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: but the relationship between them their actions right now in 220 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: the Turkish state, it's much more direct. So at the 221 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: same time as you have this this sweep to the 222 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: south that caused the Regimi change in Syria, heading to 223 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: the east, so to originally the reason Zeppa, followed by 224 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: the city at Mindage in the region around there, you 225 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: have this onslaught from the essay and that is what 226 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: the SDF, if you originally mentioned, are currently up against. 227 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: And that's the situation that we're in and it's it's 228 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: still ongoing. It's very much not stopped. It's still much 229 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: very much like hot engagement and hot fighting that is happening. 230 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's like sometimes to introduce your other econom 231 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 3: we use like TFSA to refer to some of those groups, 232 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 3: like the Turkish Free Syrian Army, and that they're essentially 233 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 3: an operation by the Turkey state to co oper to 234 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 3: what was initially a democratic grassroots revolution more than a 235 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 3: decade ago. And like, if you haven't been following, I 236 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 3: suppose it would be easy to be confused by this, 237 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 3: But the SNA have not been backwards in documenting their 238 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 3: war crimes in the advance towards I guess their advanced 239 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 3: westwards towards the Euphrates and even over the Euphrates, and 240 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 3: there have been some really horrible things, some of them, 241 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 3: like I've shared online if people want to. They're not 242 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 3: hard to find if you want to find them, but 243 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 3: are not going to put them right in front of you, 244 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: because they're horrible. And as the SNA have advanced, they've 245 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: reached a couple of locations that are very crucial, right, 246 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: and that's where they've been kind of stopped by the SDF, 247 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 3: because the SDF haven't been in like such a large 248 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 3: sale conflict for the last couple of years. They've been 249 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 3: fighting against like Islamic State splinter cells and to a degree, 250 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 3: the SNA. But like the SDF has modernized a lot 251 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 3: more than the SNA have, I guess in the past years, 252 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 3: right that they've embraced the use of first person view drones. 253 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: They've even shut down several Turkish Biractar drones, which they 254 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 3: previously if they had the ability to do it then 255 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 3: then they weren't able to use that ability until very recently. 256 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: So like they in a sense, their resistance has been 257 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 3: very impressive, right because we have, on the one hand, 258 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 3: it's the second largest army in NATO giving its like 259 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: full support to the SNA, and on the other hand 260 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 3: we have the FDF, which is interior US partner force. Right, 261 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 3: there are US bases still in Syior, there are US 262 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 3: troops still in Syria, well yeah for now, But like 263 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 3: I mean, I remember when I was in Java in 264 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,599 Speaker 3: October twenty twenty three, the US shot down a Biractar 265 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 3: drone over a US base and then it did not 266 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 3: shoot down the dozens of other Biractar drones that were 267 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 3: bombing the cities the city that you're in right now, 268 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 3: city that I was in, other cities. You know, I 269 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: met a mother who had lost her fourteen year old 270 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 3: son to one of these dwined bombings. Really like horrific 271 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 3: and just cruel bombing of all of very clearly civilian targets. 272 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 3: So like, the US is there, but they're not doing 273 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 3: anything to help supposedly their friends, supposally their partners. And 274 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 3: like every interview I conducted began with like five minutes 275 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 3: of me being asked why the Americans weren't being friends 276 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 3: when the SDF had been friends to them in a 277 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: battle against ISIS, And like, that's not something I have 278 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 3: a good explanation for, other than like I think most 279 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 3: Courtish people can understand the difference between people and government 280 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 3: and people and state, and like I might have a belief, 281 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 3: but it's not the same as the government of the US. 282 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 3: So can you explain the role of the US here 283 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: because people will be very confused, right, And I think 284 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 3: it's easy to sort of simplify this as like America 285 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 3: is in Syria for oil, but there's a little bit 286 00:14:58,920 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: more to it than that. 287 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, absolutely, And again it's it's such a big question, 288 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: and it's a question of how far back do you go? 289 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: How far do you zoom out? Sense keep As you 290 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: keep moving back from today, the plot kind of thickens 291 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: and as you you know, if you imagine if you're 292 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: looking at the Google maps of Steria and then you 293 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: you click the button that takes you out and out, 294 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: and the map gets wider and wider, the story kind 295 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: of fills itself in as well. Like that seems to 296 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: make more sense when they are put in that context. 297 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: And I think a good place to start maybe is Yeah, 298 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: this consistent for a long time, like American attitude to 299 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: this whole region, not just Sylia, which is to play 300 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: yet to play very carefully to your advantage and make 301 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: alliances where it suits you and continue to where it 302 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: suits you and not stick to them where it doesn't. 303 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: And that is Yeah. One aspect of that is the resources, 304 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: which goes further than just oil, is also gas and 305 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: is also the resource of the space to create a 306 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: trade route, right, Like, that's a really important question in 307 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: the Middle East at the moment, and it's one of 308 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: the reasons that Kurdistan is such an important place politically, 309 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: a lot of these lines of potential trade routes and 310 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: these kind of lines of power and money they intercept 311 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: and they cross over here. So there are all these 312 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: different resources at play. And I think another thing that's 313 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: important to look at is that, yeah, the US as 314 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: the US government as you put it, as distinct from 315 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: the citizens in anyway, doesn't just go into this blind 316 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: and kind of react day by day. It's not like 317 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: a reactive force in the world. The US government is 318 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: and would you know, proudly announced I think as well 319 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: with Creey thing on this one point that they are, 320 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: no matter who the administration is and where it's politically 321 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: leaning at the time, a very proactive force. They have 322 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: a plan where that they go and they try and 323 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: put it into practice. And famously, historically and very intensely, 324 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: a lot of that has played out in the Middle 325 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: East because of the Middle East position in the world 326 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: resources and the role that it's played in kind of 327 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: who gets to be the big dog in the world 328 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: over the years and throughout history, it's become for those 329 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: various reasons that very important. And so yeah, again without 330 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: it's many podcasts of its own, and I'm sure you 331 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: are making them, So I won't try and like summarize it, 332 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: but I think you can't talk about America's role in 333 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: Syria and the Middle East in general without mentioning like 334 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: Israel and the role Israeli state place for for and 335 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: with America and things like. You know, we're all sort 336 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: of following and for you guys following more closely because 337 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: we're all following the current Americans administration and leadership and 338 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: what's been coming out of there. And sometimes you think, like, God, 339 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: is it just not when you look at something like 340 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: you know, the video for like the new Gaza that 341 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: they're going to make, for example, and Trump's Gaza whatever 342 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: that was. Yeah, yeah, So I mean it makes it sick. 343 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: And then you're also not sure if it's it's serious 344 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: or if it's mad. But I think unfortunately it's actually, Yeah, 345 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: it's quite an intelligent play. And what it speaks to 346 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: that is relevant to what I'm saying here is this 347 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: kind of long term flat right that to annihilate a 348 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: region to the best of your ability so that you 349 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: can move in and develop it. Yeah, is a tried 350 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: and tested method of many many governance, and America is 351 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,719 Speaker 1: not the only one. But at the moment we're at 352 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: kind of crucial moment in the Middle East when one 353 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: sort of wall of forces are trying to greatly reduce 354 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: the role and power of some others so that they 355 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: can put their plan into place and so that they 356 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: can yeah, they can, so they can make money. You know, 357 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: you always were following money and where development can be 358 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: made and where trade routes can be made. And so 359 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: what happened the tiny of the regime change that we've 360 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: just discussed, the timing of HDS being able to move 361 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: into the Masters and take it over. It's no coincidence 362 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: that it came after like a shift in the Israeli 363 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: like genocidal war on Gaza, and after what the then 364 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: military action they were taking against Tesbola in Lebanon, which 365 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: they felt then had up to a point achieved what 366 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: they wanted to achieve, and then things kind of moved 367 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: to Syria. Right, So I'm not saying that the new 368 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 1: government has kind of come from has been sponsored by 369 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: that at all. I think there's a huge amount of 370 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: tension there. But the withdrawal of like the weakening and 371 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: or withdrawal of forces to Iran and Hezbela here played 372 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: a huge role with then being able to establish themselves 373 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: as a government. So that is also something that you 374 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: know that's not directly necessarily every step sort of kind 375 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: of puppeteered by the US at all, but it is 376 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: a part of the politics that the US has kind 377 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: of long historical influence on and that it backs and 378 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: that it's in conversation is in the whole of the 379 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: Middle East. It's this kind of greater Middle East plan, 380 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: it's vision for it, if you if you will. And 381 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: the other aspect that I think is important to talk 382 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: about is the US's relationship with North and Eastria specifically 383 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: you mentioned they're like, you know, there's like supposed friendship 384 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: with we can say that like friendship with the Kurds 385 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: as people will refer to it. Or the alliance and 386 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: coalition between the SDF and the US, which was sort 387 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: of most most famous and most well known during the 388 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: fight against isis when the international coalition, it's always the 389 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: spearheaded by America, was bombing and providing air support for 390 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: the SDF as the as they pulled it. The boots 391 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: on the ground, the actual brand force that could go 392 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: and take territory back from Isis, which yes, did look 393 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: like a kind of did look like a friendship. But 394 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: I think from both sides, everyone always that that was 395 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: a practical alliance, perhaps perhaps a strategic alliance at best. 396 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: We can say, but I think that the US has 397 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: not got a history of operating on a basis of 398 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: like friendship or of that kind of commitment to the 399 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: forces it works with, and a lot a lot of 400 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: history and modern recent history can attest to that. And 401 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: from the side of people here, I think it's really 402 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: important to say that, yeah, people were angry, and that 403 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: you know what you heard you were talking about interviewing 404 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: people and then kind of being like, well, what are 405 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: they doing? Like we we fought all with them, partly 406 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: on their behalf like and then they deserve Yes, people 407 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: are angry, but the more kind of politically engaged someone 408 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: is sort of moving up that scale, I think the 409 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: less face they ever had in the US. 410 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 411 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: So, and now you've got the US kind of muttering 412 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: about withdrawing their troops from Syria, right yah, And as 413 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: Daja who because they said this before, I was actually 414 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: here when they said this reportant back in twenty nineteen. 415 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: I also have be in northern East Syria, and it 416 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: was I'm not wrong, it was Trump again. If I 417 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: turned out and they said we were drawing our forces 418 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: from Syria, did they actually withdraw Not exactly. No. You 419 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: still saw them driving around in big cars, mostly right 420 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: next to the oil fields. It was a bit it 421 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: was almost tomical, sort of like when party and parts 422 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: next to the oil fields. But that withdrawal was symbolic. 423 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: That withdrawal was they withdrew from bases right on the 424 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: border with Turkey, which lies just to the north of 425 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: Syria and as such just next to north of Eassyria 426 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: for anyone without the about the map immediately in their head, 427 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: and they announced it very very clearly and very publicly, 428 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: and so it was a kind of it was a 429 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: green flag to say to Turkey, yeah, coming on, you come, yeah, 430 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: we're not going to stop you. We're not gonna because 431 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: what you don't want to do is hit an American 432 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: by accident, as you gave the examples. They you know, 433 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: they brought down a drum, but it was over an 434 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: American base, not because it was bombing civilians nearby, which 435 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: dozens of other were, And so that you had that 436 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: kind of symbolic withdrawal led to in twenty nineteen. It's 437 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: one of the times that Turkey has like annexed section 438 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: es centrally annexty section of Syria North and East Syria 439 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: under the remit of the Autonomous Administration, but nonetheless still 440 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: technically Syrian territory. And in that time it was sarah 441 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: Kanya and Gerrispi, which people may have heard of, and 442 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: so that, yeah, that was the like green flag to 443 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: Turkey to take that step. And at that time, yeah, 444 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: maybe share. It's a lot of a lot of political stuff, 445 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: a lot of acropins, a lot of all this and 446 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: maybe I'll just SHAREO be anecdote. Yeah, at that time 447 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: when they made the announcement they were going to leave, 448 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: people organized a march to an American base, and I 449 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: was here at the time and I joined it with 450 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: some of the women's organizations. It was the most amazing day. 451 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: Like I sort of went home and wrote this massive 452 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: journal antique. I've already been here for a very long time, 453 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: but my mind was still a bit blown by it. 454 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: For one thing, it was such an example of how 455 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: the social movement here works and what society is like 456 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: in all the complexity, because yeah, a lot of people 457 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: here are very wedded to the liberatory, progressive, grassroots democratic 458 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: women's freedom ecological movement that I'm sure you've spoken about 459 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: in your programs on Rashava, and thousands and thousands of 460 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: people completely take ownership of that and see themselves in 461 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: that and are the driving force of that. Obviously, that 462 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: doesn't mean every single person here is one hundred percent 463 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: sold on movement at all. Yeah. 464 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 3: Some of them are trying to get on with life. 465 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: Some of them just trying to get on with life. 466 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: Some of them are you know, I mean, if you 467 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: talk about women's freedom, there's always going to be really 468 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: few men or a bit like what does this mean 469 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: for me? What do I have to give up? So 470 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: it would be sick, it would be silly and new 471 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: topics to say that everyone's talk we sold. However, nobody 472 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: wants to get invented by one of the largest armies 473 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: in NATO. Yeah, so you have this sort of actually 474 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: even broader than usual kind of coming together, like groups 475 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: from the sort of like tribal clan structures here that 476 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: are still like a really political force, and that don't 477 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, have a kind of uneasy truth and sort 478 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: of slowly learning each other. Relationship with the movement, you 479 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: can say, but they really came out in force as 480 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: well as well as like the Curdish movement as well 481 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: as like lots of different ethnic groups. And we marched, 482 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: and to be honest, I didn't know we were going 483 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: through an American based A lot of people didn't. It 484 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: was quite confusing days because I think they didn't want 485 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: to announce things too widely until they got there and 486 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: we went and did this kind of the Yeah, they 487 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 1: like read out a letter symbolically. I think in some 488 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: of the Arabic community leaders went up to the base 489 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: and we the majority of people. There's got hundreds of 490 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: hundred of people in this crowd, and they stayed back 491 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: at a distance. And I found out later that that 492 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: is because the American soldiers said, if two bigger groups 493 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: of people come close, we will we will open fire. 494 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: Like that that information was given. Yeah, I don't know 495 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: what they were scared of. 496 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 4: You know. 497 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: It's like like any march here, the people in the 498 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: front row are always ranks. 499 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's old ladies. 500 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: No different on that day. I mean they're a bit scary, 501 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: to be said. I don't think that it's a bit 502 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: embarrassing if the American soldiers would keep together them but 503 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: that stuff of it's judge. But while we were there 504 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: by like your chance, the fleet of not tacks but 505 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: big armored cars rolled in and there was just this 506 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: moment I really clearly remember, just pause, and they rolled 507 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: through the crowd, and the crowd parted and turned and looked, 508 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: and nobody teared or clapped. Obviously there was no sense 509 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: of oh, it's the Americans, right, yeah, but nobody sort 510 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: of through you know, for anything else, through insults or 511 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: chanted anything negative either. There was just this stillness and 512 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: this really helpable energy of this kind of sense of 513 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: people looking at you know, obviously they're just these soldiers 514 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: that happened to be driving these trucks, but they really 515 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: symbolized something more than that. And people were kind of 516 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: looking sort of insisting that you looked them in the eye, 517 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: saying like, hey, if anyone owes anyone, you owe us. 518 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: After everything we fought for and everything we've. 519 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 3: Done, I have thirteen thousand marches. They were called exactly. 520 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so many people lost in the fight isis and 521 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: so much like blood and sweat and fears given, and 522 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: there was just yeah, this palpable sense of like, at 523 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: least have the decency to kind of look at us 524 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: and admit what you're doing, because you know what you're doing. Yeah, 525 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: and it really yeah, it really felt it was very 526 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: kind of moving at the time, and that I feel 527 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: like it's very symbolic into politics here of how you know, 528 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,719 Speaker 1: someone asking the other day what was it like for 529 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: people to rely on America knowing that they'd betrayed them, 530 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: And I said, well, they didn't, they never relied on them. 531 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know I was relying on aera. 532 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, there's that kind of the expectation 533 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: of at least some sense of dignity. That is a 534 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: very important concept for people here in dignity and yeah, 535 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: so yeah, that that is I always remember that that 536 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: would yeah say again, and it's confusing. That was five 537 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: five and a half years ago. Now, yeah, and now 538 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: you've got this sort of is history repeating itself talking 539 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: about with the troops. But I think it's important to 540 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: understand what that means. What that means is they're talking 541 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: about potentially giving a greed of blag for more military aggression, 542 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: and I think they kind of haven't decided yet. It's 543 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: really going to do it, and there's a lot of 544 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: things in the balance, and in terms of I'll just 545 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: say one more, one more thing, and I think gets 546 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: a bit longer in terms of like the plan for 547 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: Syria and America's role, like this is my opinion. I 548 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: can't say for sure that this is the definite reality, 549 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: but my understanding in the situation is that once again 550 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: people here in this in this movement are kind of 551 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: caught between a rock and a hard place. And the 552 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,479 Speaker 1: rock and the hard place now looks like You've got 553 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: the new government that set itself up in Damascus, Yes, 554 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: and their goal, if they can wangle it and get 555 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: the outside and international support, is to build your sort 556 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: of socially at least, if not politically, the model is 557 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: going to look a bit like Afghanistan and the Colabat, right, 558 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 1: Like from the signs of changes they've made to the constitution, 559 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: incidents of like violence, sectarianism and feminist side of been rising, 560 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: attacks they've already made on women's rights like very rapidly, 561 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: and things that have been put in like the president 562 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: that legally has to be in Muslim all of this stuff, right, Yeah, 563 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: that's sort of their plan. But on the other hand, 564 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: I think if you kind of let the American government 565 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: loose on Syria to build up its plan. At the moment, 566 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: I think they are seeing an opportunity to use this 567 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: kind of formula from Iraq into and I think they 568 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: want to create this sort very open to capitalist market 569 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: who trade kind of space in which the North and 570 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: East area with majority though not entirely Curtis, can sort 571 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: of play this role that the Kurdistan region of Iraq 572 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: has played. 573 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 3: I don't know what you call it, like a safe 574 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 3: conduit to capital. Like it's a very stark difference. If 575 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 3: people haven't traveled that part of the world to be 576 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 3: in pol a Bill and then to us into Java, 577 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 3: that you can see the impact that a decade of 578 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 3: that being the safe place to have your oil company 579 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 3: headquarters has had on the Ghatstan regional government. Yeah, I've 580 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 3: better move on before we finish up. I want to 581 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 3: talk about the current manifestation of resistance right and specifically 582 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 3: at Tishrin Dam, because that's something that A has been 583 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 3: reported on and B like it mirrors what you saw 584 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen, and that like it's not just a 585 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 3: military resistance, right, but also like a civil sized society resistance. 586 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 3: Can you explain maybe if people have seen anything, they've 587 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 3: seen that horrible video of people dancing and then SNA 588 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 3: drone just dropping a mortar bomb right in the middle 589 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 3: of them, But can you explain how we got there? 590 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, now, yeah, great, I'm glad you asked that, 591 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: because in some sense they know there is horrible stuff 592 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: in there. But this is the this is the beautiful bit, 593 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: this is the great bit, the bit that, yeah, we 594 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: soon be talking about at the moment. So, yeah, the 595 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: Tissuing Dam is a big tydro electric facility that is 596 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: on the Euphrates River. And if you look at a 597 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: map Asia, Euphrates is kind of in the middle of 598 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: the top and that is the region roughly where there's 599 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: offensive that we spoke out of the Turkish funded militias, 600 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: which has come from from the west across to the east, 601 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: at times closer and further away from the river, and 602 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: currently like a few kilometers away, that's where that offensive 603 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: has been stopped by the FDA and cannot progress any 604 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: further despite intensive air support from Turkey, and they're sort 605 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: of increasingly putting pressure on that, but it hasn't got anywhere. 606 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: But it's close, right, you know, it's not too far away, 607 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: and people are following the news. And what's right on 608 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: the other side. If you get across the river there 609 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: there's the dam, and then there's a bridge further to 610 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: the north of Krakos at bridge that's similarly kind of crucial. 611 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: And if you get across the river, you're not far 612 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: away at all from the city of Kabani, which I'm 613 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: sure most of your lessons will parad off. Is this 614 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: massively important symbol of anti fashion resistance. It was one 615 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: of the ignition points of the revolution for the social 616 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: movement here and it was really important a plight against Isis. 617 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: And I think it's safe to say that Turkey via 618 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: the SNA had its eye on Cabani again and that 619 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: this is in fact an attack on Kabani, which has 620 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: been kind of held back. And so the Dan is 621 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: important symbolically as this like strategic river crossing. It's this 622 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: kind of no pass that are like they will not 623 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: pass moment. It's also important logistically, like for the society 624 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: here because it's a hydroelectric facility. It supplies electricity, helps 625 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,479 Speaker 1: with the supply of water for various reasons. For thousands 626 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: and thousands of people. It's now out of action, might 627 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: go without saying, but when you're in the middle of 628 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: an active war zone, you can't keep running a place 629 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: like that. So that is directly attacking and impacting the 630 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: society and normal communities here, and so yeah, it's no 631 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: wonder that those normal communities and that society but always 632 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: feel very very implicated and are kind of ready to 633 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: to stand up and defend themselves. It's not as Yeah, 634 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: the military assault is not kept separate from the society 635 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: in the society is also under attatch indirectly attacks on 636 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: infrastructure such as that, and directly by like drone strikes 637 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: on many many civilian targets. Unfortunately, Yeah, in recent times 638 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: that has increased, particularly in villages surrounding Banni, and you 639 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: seem like kids also hospitalized and killed as a part 640 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: of that. So on the eighth of January, what began 641 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: was that what they call a convoy, like a big 642 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: big trek of different vehicles got together and arranged and 643 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: organized from different towns across Anotomy Syria to go to 644 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: Kishin dam As. This very like the day symbol is 645 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: very clear like important physical location and also very symbolic 646 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: thing where war has also been fought before. There's also 647 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: in previous campaigns against for example, there was fighting in 648 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: the regions, so people feel like, you know, their sons 649 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: and daughters have fought for diffree river crossing before. It's 650 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: still you know, it's there in the historical memory as well. Yeah, 651 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: and people went and since then, which is almost exactly 652 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: two months as we're recording this, we're right around the 653 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: two months anniversary months and there's been a constant presence 654 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: there protests on the dam and that's got several different 655 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: kind of aspects to it. It is mostly to raise 656 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: the voices and raise awareness and make visible what's happening. 657 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: And yeah, if it's hard to understand why like hundreds 658 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: of people would go from their homes to somewhere that 659 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: is closer to the active fighting, to somewhere that's in 660 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: a very unstable region, Like yeah, first of all, you 661 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: have to understand that nowhere in notedly Syria is actually sick, 662 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: right like in Commas, for the city where I am, 663 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: there's been residential buildings bombs dropped on them from drones 664 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 1: like within the last couple of months as well. It's 665 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: not like and there's this sense of safety wherever you are. 666 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: The difference is a sense of doing something about and 667 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: of standing together and coming together in these like amazingly 668 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: brave and amazingly creative ways that only the communities have 669 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: not in Assoria can manage. So Yes, Unfortunately, during these 670 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: two months there have consistently been air strikes on the dam, 671 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: and I don't have the exact statistics, and you wouldn't 672 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: necessarily get an honest answer about how many of them 673 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: have come directly from Turkey and how many have come 674 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: from SNA drones, right, but the Sena drunes are paid 675 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: for by the Turkis state anyway, So at the end 676 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: of the day, yea morally, how much difference does it make? 677 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: And they have attacked the civil protests there and up 678 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: until now, I believe twenty five civilians have been killed 679 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: and many more than that hospitalized. But despite this, and 680 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: in the shadow of this, with the most beautiful defiance 681 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: like that, protest has continued. And what the videos that 682 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: maybe don't get shared as much or shared enough that 683 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: people might not have seen are also these images you know, 684 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: which are very I can attest are very real because 685 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: I went there myself a few weeks ago, which is 686 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: everybody getting out and dancing at the slightest opportunity or 687 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: the slightest excuse, lack of an excuse, and the most 688 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: amazing art that's been made, like paintings of the people 689 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,720 Speaker 1: who've been killed, or they would say here fallen martyr. 690 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: In these two months, Yes, there's been theater, like theater 691 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: performed using the bits of the bombed out cars that 692 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: were bombed just a few days before as props to 693 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, tell the story of what's been happening, 694 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: like the most like creative things. Also statements for the press, 695 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: and all your different organizations show ups, so like the 696 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: organized youth show up as the youth, and obviously the 697 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: women's organizations as women saying like, you know, this is 698 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: our revolution, this is our community, and we know what 699 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: it looks like when it gets occupied. We're not just 700 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: going to stand by and see it happen again. It's 701 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: our land, it's our water, and it's our kids. Is 702 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,879 Speaker 1: the refrain that kind of gets repeated over and over again. 703 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: And of course they're they're in solidarity as well with 704 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: the with the SDF themselves, with the military force. It 705 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: would be it would be crazy if they weren't, because yeah, 706 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: they are also embedded in their communities. No, they're not 707 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: extracted from the society the way that most kind of 708 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: state armies are. So yeah, the situation at Tiswine is 709 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: still ongoing, and when I was there, it was it 710 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: really was the most amazing experience. There were bombings while 711 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: I was there, and tragically, one of the people I 712 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: got to know there who was a journalist, his name 713 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: was Eggy Brush. Just less than two weeks after I 714 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: got back, I found out that he'd also been killed 715 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: in another drawne strike. 716 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 3: So it was, Yeah, it's. 717 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: Very very just kind of doesn't it doesn't stop, the 718 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: aggression doesn't stop, but nonetheless people kind of coming together 719 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: to resist it doesn't stop either. And once I'd been there, 720 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: it seemed a lot less crazy or hard to imagine 721 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,280 Speaker 1: that people would come together around it because you see 722 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: like the immense power that it was, and you see 723 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: that how everyone here has lost someone. Know, like the 724 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: vast majority of people here lost members of their family. 725 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,720 Speaker 1: You said yourself, thirteen thousand fallen in the fight against 726 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: Isis alone, and since then, like war one way or 727 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: another has been going on. So people know what lost 728 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: means already they've already lost, but they're not going to 729 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: let that make them step back. They're gonna do their 730 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: fall and loved ones justice and continue to stand up 731 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: in their name. And yeah, it's a very sort of 732 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: big thing, but it's really powerful when you see it 733 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: in person and and all that kind of humanity and 734 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: humor and joy despite the situation. 735 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that is a very unique thing to courts 736 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 3: down And like the Kurdish freedom movement, it's this sort 737 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 3: of joy. I mean, I've think it's very similar in 738 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 3: Burma rightly, where they also do they love to dance, 739 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 3: oh well in a war, and like it is one 740 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 3: of the things that I think, like the joy. It 741 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 3: is hard to explain and I was sort of writing 742 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,399 Speaker 3: long on time here, but I just like when people 743 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 3: hear Syria and to exemp when they hear me and 744 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 3: mad or they'll think of wars. But like you should 745 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 3: also think about all the people who exist outside of 746 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 3: the conflict, or who don't think this outside of it. 747 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 3: It's around word, but who who are not fighting at 748 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 3: the front line. Like the experience of revolution is very 749 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 3: joyful one even amidst very difficult times, and it's difficult 750 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 3: to explain it if you haven't experienced it, because it 751 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 3: sounds so juxtaposed, but it isn't necessarily. The guy have 752 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 3: actually really fond memories of meeting Kurdish people coming into 753 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 3: the United States in the mountains at a time when 754 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 3: the United States was retaining people outdoors in very difficult conditions, 755 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 3: and like dancing with them there at a time when 756 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 3: like it was miserable. The ability to salvage joy. It 757 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 3: gives you a sense of sovereignty, I suppose, and I 758 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 3: can understand why that's such an important part of the 759 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,359 Speaker 3: Curdish freedom movement when every expression of Curtis's identity has 760 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 3: been suppressed for so long, like the ability to seize 761 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 3: your moments what James Scott would call like little small 762 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 3: acts of resistance, Like it's important. It's it's more important, 763 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 3: I think people understand. And if you're understanding it from 764 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,959 Speaker 3: a Western military doctrine, it doesn't fit. But that's because 765 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 3: you're using the wrong framework. Yeah, exactly, Jenny. If people 766 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 3: are interested in following your work about this, or perhaps 767 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 3: they're interested in doing what they can to support the 768 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 3: revolution and what is a challenging time, a very changing time, 769 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,479 Speaker 3: how can they do both those things? 770 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, so well, if they are interested in following the 771 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: sort of updates and so on that I've been doing. 772 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,399 Speaker 1: I've got Instagram and TikTok channels, which are both at 773 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,280 Speaker 1: j Keston. I'm assuming you can stick that written form somewhere. 774 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. 775 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: And Telegram channel as well if people find it easier 776 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: to sort of get Yeah, that's just the most condensed 777 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: way to kind of download information, videos or whatever, which 778 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: you can find under the same name, and there's also 779 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: links to it on the on Instagram, TikTok and on there. 780 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: We've got we linked tree that has some suggest for 781 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: if people want to support, like ways to donate, say 782 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: to the Kurdish Red Present and stuff like that. And 783 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: then specifically, yeah, I mean there is a lot that 784 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: people can do and whatever it is, it all starts 785 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: with getting more I wouldn't say informed, I would say 786 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: getting more connected. Right, So getting informed is a part 787 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 1: of that, but not just in the sense of information learning, 788 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,320 Speaker 1: like it's also connecting with like the feeling of things 789 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: here and why it's become so important to so many 790 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: people across the world, not just people from here. Yeah, 791 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: and the more we learn about that, I'm all, we'll 792 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: start to see like how we can be a friend 793 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,399 Speaker 1: to the movement here and where how our role can fit. 794 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: And I know that there are specifically in America a 795 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: couple of organizations, is it that theybi book Chain has 796 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: been really prominent in organizing one of them. 797 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, Emergency Committee for Java. 798 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: Emergency Committee for a Java, that's the one. Yeah, I 799 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: mean had emergency in there somewhere. That's definitely worth looking 800 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: up and following a lot of the work that they do. 801 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,760 Speaker 1: And you also got like think it's like the Kourdish 802 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: Piece Institute, that kind of lobbying, and so yeah, there 803 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: are some there is some stuff from coming from the 804 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: United States as well, But I think, yeah, the more 805 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: people get a chance to kind of learn about stuff 806 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 1: here and see the connection and be able to see 807 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 1: and find themselves in it, And I think that's got 808 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: a lot to do with what you were just speaking about. 809 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: Hearing you put so well, I wouldn't extend it much more, 810 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: but yeah, like people here, it's really there's always war happening, 811 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 1: and always war kind of filing on top of you, 812 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: but that's never what it's about. The question is always 813 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 1: what are you're fighting for and what you're fighting to defend? 814 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 1: And what would you be doing if there was no war. 815 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: Everyone here'll always say if there was no war, we'd 816 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: still have enough work to do with all the really 817 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: like I was that word ambitious, like social transformation that 818 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: people here are really committed to. There's enough going on 819 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: and it's very big and as you put it, it's 820 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: very beautiful and very joyful, and so that's Yeah, that's 821 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 1: the bit that I encourage people to try and learn 822 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,399 Speaker 1: more about, because that's the bit that makes you stay. 823 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 1: It makes peopleeople like me stick around for years, finding 824 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: out more and more, making friends and getting closer and 825 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:05,959 Speaker 1: closer to there. 826 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a very good way to put it. 827 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 3: So yeah, I encourage people to do all that. Thank 828 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 3: you so much for your time doing I note it's 829 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 3: late there, but we really appreciate you joining us today. 830 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 5: Thank you so much than cheers, hello, and welcome to 831 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 5: it could happen here. It's time to finally continue our 832 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 5: journey through Latin America and Anarchiston. 833 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:43,399 Speaker 6: Now. 834 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 5: So far we've covered almost every country in Latin America 835 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 5: at this point, including Peru, Chile, Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Central America. 836 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 5: The country is the former Grand Colombia like Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia, 837 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 5: and also Cuba and. 838 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 6: A few other islands in the Caribbean. 839 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 5: And now before we get to the really big history 840 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 5: that I've kind of been saved as the finale, that 841 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 5: is anarchism in Mexico, we're going to be talking about 842 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 5: the anarchist movement in Uruguay. 843 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,760 Speaker 6: So my name is Andrew Sage. 844 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 5: You can find on YouTube as Andrewism and you can 845 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 5: also find the bulk of the research for today's episode 846 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,880 Speaker 5: in an Hill Capialities, aptly titled Anarchism in Latin America. 847 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,879 Speaker 5: I'm joined today by James me again and it's been 848 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:36,280 Speaker 5: a while. 849 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:37,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, it has been a while. 850 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,839 Speaker 6: Nice to be back, great to be back in conversation. 851 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:41,959 Speaker 3: Yeah. 852 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 5: So, before we could really get into the history of 853 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,399 Speaker 5: anarchism in Uruguay, I probably should give some context as 854 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 5: to how Uruguay became Uruguay. And well, my source for 855 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 5: this history is primarily the Encyclopedia Britannica. So before the 856 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 5: whole scoog of European clonalism, what is now known as 857 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 5: Uruguay supported a population of about five thousand to ten 858 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,359 Speaker 5: thousand people, which were. 859 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 6: Organized in semi nomadic groups. 860 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 5: You had the Tarua, the China, and the Guarani Indians primarily. 861 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 5: So the first European visits took place first in fifteen sixteen, 862 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 5: and they weren't particularly successful or of interest. Spain was 863 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 5: looking for gold and looking for silver. That was their 864 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 5: incentive for colonization at the time, and they didn't see 865 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 5: any of that, so they didn't have much motivation to 866 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 5: stick around. It was until the sixteen twenties, over a 867 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 5: century later, that Jesuit and Franciscan missionary set up religious settlements, 868 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 5: but unfortunately, by then, Uruguay's native population had already begun 869 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:54,320 Speaker 5: to collapse. Thousands of people were succumbing to European diseases, 870 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 5: so they had no immunity to a couple of centuries later, 871 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 5: in eighteen hundred, Uruguay continued along with the very small population. 872 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 5: At this point it was about thirty thousand people in total, 873 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 5: and a third of their population lived in the capital 874 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:11,359 Speaker 5: city of Montevideo. 875 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 6: Another thirty their population. 876 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 5: Were African slaves who worked on ranchers and meat processing plants, 877 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 5: and as domestic servants. Meanwhile, the elite, whether they be 878 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:27,319 Speaker 5: wealthy traders, bankers, or landowners, mostly traced their roots to Catalonia, 879 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 5: the Basque Country, the Cleary Islands, and other parts of Spain. 880 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 5: We get into eighteen ten, when a lot of the 881 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 5: Latin American countries had been fighting for their independence Boros 882 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 5: Aires Argentina was among them. But while Argentina was fighting 883 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,839 Speaker 5: for its independence, Montevideo was a Royalist stronghold backed by 884 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 5: the Spanish military and naval forces. On the country side, 885 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,479 Speaker 5: it was a different story though Uruguay's greatest independence zero 886 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,920 Speaker 5: kind of came out of that space. His name was 887 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:04,919 Speaker 5: Jose Crevasio Artigas, and he originally led a Spanish cavalry unit, 888 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 5: but eventually turned against the crown in eighteen eleven and 889 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 5: rallied an army of rural fighters, freed African slaves and 890 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 5: anti royalist leaders from Montevideo. So with the back in 891 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,879 Speaker 5: from Buenos Aires, his forces were able to score key 892 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,919 Speaker 5: victories and eventually oust the Spanish. But Artigas had much 893 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 5: bigger ambitions. He wanted a confederation of provinces to resisted 894 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,600 Speaker 5: the dominance of Buenos Aires. In fact, he wanted Montevideo 895 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,800 Speaker 5: to become the center of a rival confederation, as prior 896 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 5: to Argentina becoming Argentina, it was sort of a loose 897 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 5: confederation centered in Buenos Aires. Artigas's ideas also included things 898 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 5: like redistributing the land to freed slaves and Poiuguayans, which 899 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 5: made him obviously very popular among the poor and very 900 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 5: much a threat to the elite. Eventually, he was forced 901 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:03,840 Speaker 5: into exile because because he made some enemies that basically 902 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:08,040 Speaker 5: sat on their hands as the Portuguese Brazilian forces invaded 903 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 5: and took over the region despite his exile, though the 904 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,520 Speaker 5: fight really wasn't over, you know. After the occupation, which 905 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 5: was often called Brazilianization, it was resisted very heavily by 906 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 5: locals and exiles, and of course Argentina, which had become 907 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,360 Speaker 5: some lot of a rival power to Brazil in the region. 908 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 5: It saw Brazil's influence in Uruguay as a threat. So 909 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:38,239 Speaker 5: eventually one of Artigas's exile officers, a guy named Juan 910 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 5: Antonio Lavaller, would lead a force that would cross the 911 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:47,480 Speaker 5: river and reclaim Uruguay. The fight would end in a 912 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,160 Speaker 5: steel meat and then British deplomat to step in, because 913 00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 5: of course the British had their own interests in the region. 914 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 5: But eventually, in eighteen twenty eight, a treaty was signed 915 00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,640 Speaker 5: officially created in Uruguay as an independent Natia buffer state 916 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:06,560 Speaker 5: between Argentina and Brazil. In eighteen thirty, Uruguay's first constitution 917 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 5: was ratified, and at the time the country had a 918 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,920 Speaker 5: population of just seventy four thousand people. 919 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 6: All that war kind of left the country in ruins. 920 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,279 Speaker 5: A lot of the once wealthy colonial families were devastated, 921 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,959 Speaker 5: the cattle numbers had plummeted, and the threat of both 922 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,360 Speaker 5: Argentina and Brazil still persisted despite the treaty at being signed. 923 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,960 Speaker 5: So then the nation ended up being split into two 924 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 5: rival factions. You had the faction that was led by 925 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,400 Speaker 5: Uruguay's first president and then you had the faction that 926 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,520 Speaker 5: was led by Uruguay's second president, and they became face 927 00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,320 Speaker 5: rivals that ignited a civil war known as the Gera 928 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:49,600 Speaker 5: Grande or Great War. 929 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,440 Speaker 6: I'd make a long story short. 930 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:57,760 Speaker 5: The first President's supporters became known as the Colorado Party 931 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,280 Speaker 5: and they controlled Onetevideo, and the second president supporters became 932 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,840 Speaker 5: known as the White Party or the Blanco Party, and 933 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,120 Speaker 5: they dominated the countryside, and so they were to fight 934 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 5: from time to time, each side being backed by different parties. 935 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,520 Speaker 5: The Blancos were backed by Argentina, the Colorados were backed 936 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 5: by France and England, and then eventually Brazil, and after 937 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,200 Speaker 5: about a decade of war, there was still no clear 938 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,320 Speaker 5: victory as to who came out of it as a 939 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,160 Speaker 5: success in state. The interior of the country was devastated, 940 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 5: government was bankrupt, its very existence as an independent nation 941 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 5: came into doubt, and the divisions between the people who 942 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:46,239 Speaker 5: backed either party became more stark than ever. Eventually, the 943 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,840 Speaker 5: Colorados were able to force Blancos out of power thanks 944 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,839 Speaker 5: to their back in by Brazil, and that move ended 945 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 5: up alarming Paraguay, who was also a freedom Brazil's influence. 946 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,120 Speaker 5: So Paraguay ended up launching in what became known as 947 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 5: the War of the Triple Alliance, which is something I 948 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:08,400 Speaker 5: covered in the episode of Paraguayan Anarchism. Eventually, after getting 949 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,359 Speaker 5: out of the civil wars and all these disputes and 950 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,759 Speaker 5: foreign powers medalist affairs, we have the situation Uruguay found 951 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:21,880 Speaker 5: itself in in the nineteenth century, a situation that waves 952 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:36,799 Speaker 5: of immigrants and also anarchism would find themselves in So 953 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,880 Speaker 5: Capelletti identifies a few of the early forces that shaped 954 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:45,400 Speaker 5: igu radicalism before anarchism and cynicalism. The first factor shape 955 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 5: in the radical landscape in Uruguay's eighteenth century was utopian socialism. 956 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:55,040 Speaker 5: It came to Uruguay with Eugenio Tanddet in eighteen forty four, 957 00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 5: and he was a French utopian socialist and follower of 958 00:51:58,800 --> 00:51:59,799 Speaker 5: Charles Freyer. 959 00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 6: Who was one of the founders of utopian socialism. 960 00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:07,000 Speaker 5: That whole milieu advocated for reconstruction of society based on 961 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:12,680 Speaker 5: communal associations of producers known as falanges. And then with 962 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,759 Speaker 5: their influence afterwards came the next force of influence the 963 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,319 Speaker 5: Italian migrants who had fought in. 964 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:20,439 Speaker 6: The Civil War. 965 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:26,279 Speaker 5: These were Republicans who eventually became socialists. And in the 966 00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,480 Speaker 5: next influence was the mutualist movement that was inspired by 967 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,040 Speaker 5: put On in the eighteen seventies, first arising in Uruguay 968 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,839 Speaker 5: among artisans and workers and establishing mutual aid societies to. 969 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:38,920 Speaker 6: Meet people's needs. 970 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,879 Speaker 5: A friend of Pedros of Prodona himself, a guy named 971 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,640 Speaker 5: Jose Ernesto Gilbert, had actually moved to Monte Video for 972 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,719 Speaker 5: a bit after being exiled from France, and I don't 973 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,280 Speaker 5: think he did anything too actively political. He did pursue 974 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,319 Speaker 5: botanic studies in Uruguay, and I believe there was some 975 00:52:58,400 --> 00:52:59,839 Speaker 5: kind of creature. 976 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,360 Speaker 6: Named after so let's cool, you know, so fun fact. 977 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,640 Speaker 5: Finally, as we kind of exit the nineteenth century, you had, 978 00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,520 Speaker 5: of course the rise of unions and internationalist organizations in 979 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,480 Speaker 5: the eighteen seventies and eighteen eighties. You had fights for workers' rights, 980 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,440 Speaker 5: you had the struggle for an international socialism, and you 981 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,480 Speaker 5: have what Capital identifies as a Euroguaian section of the 982 00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:28,320 Speaker 5: Association International de Trabajadores, which was established in eighteen seventy 983 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 5: two and engaged in a public action in eighteen seventy 984 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:37,320 Speaker 5: five that had some two thousand attendees. They established something 985 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 5: of a manifesto where one line had asked, who better 986 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,360 Speaker 5: and of greater faith than ourselves can destroy the criminal 987 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,799 Speaker 5: exploitation to which we are condemned as a whole. The 988 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,000 Speaker 5: manifesto basically ask workers to unite, and this was in 989 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,759 Speaker 5: a time where anarchism was finally starting to pick up 990 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:56,680 Speaker 5: in the region. 991 00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:59,719 Speaker 6: Another group formed in eighteen seventy six. 992 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:05,040 Speaker 5: This was the Ferracion Regional de la Republca Oriental del Uruguay, 993 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,960 Speaker 5: later called the ferracanal Uruguaya or f O r U. 994 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:17,920 Speaker 5: And they published papers like Social, La Lucha Obrera, la Fravadores, Liman, 995 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:22,719 Speaker 5: Spasion and Solidaridad. And it was a very small but 996 00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,000 Speaker 5: virgin in movement, but they didn't take very long to 997 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:31,000 Speaker 5: start making some moves, as Capelletti noting they celebrate the 998 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,880 Speaker 5: anniverstry of the Paris Commune in March eighteenth and collected 999 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,640 Speaker 5: forty pesos on behalf of libertarian prisoners in Lyon. They 1000 00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,320 Speaker 5: also collected money to support their papers and to support 1001 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:46,439 Speaker 5: peoples and efforts elsewhere, like in France. What's interesting about 1002 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,120 Speaker 5: the Uruguayan anarchists is that they were among the most 1003 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:55,680 Speaker 5: internationalists that I have found so far. You know, like 1004 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,880 Speaker 5: other parts of Latin America, they did have a large 1005 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,800 Speaker 5: immigrant population. Yeah, but because I suppose the size of 1006 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,920 Speaker 5: Uruguay compared to other countries, the immigrant population was probably 1007 00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,759 Speaker 5: larger proportional to their neighbors. So they ended up having 1008 00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:14,040 Speaker 5: a much greater connection to movements and you know, things 1009 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,680 Speaker 5: that happened in other parts of the world, including their 1010 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:17,360 Speaker 5: home countries. 1011 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense. Was there. I'm trying to remember 1012 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:24,120 Speaker 3: exactly when this began, but like there was a movement 1013 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,080 Speaker 3: among anarchists, I guess in the early more in the 1014 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,759 Speaker 3: early twentieth century to like learn Esperanto as part of 1015 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:30,680 Speaker 3: their internationalism. 1016 00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,480 Speaker 5: Yes, that's actually a history that I would love to 1017 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:34,840 Speaker 5: cover in an episode. 1018 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,959 Speaker 3: I will connect you to somebody who wrote books about 1019 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:38,920 Speaker 3: it with pleasure. 1020 00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,440 Speaker 6: Really yeah, yeah, that'll be fantastic. 1021 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,120 Speaker 3: My first book was about the anti fascist Olympics and 1022 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:50,279 Speaker 3: the last surviving Popular Olympian, the Guardo Vivankos, died in 1023 00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,319 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two in Canada and an old people's home. 1024 00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,640 Speaker 3: I've been trying to visit him, but because of the 1025 00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:58,879 Speaker 3: COVID restrictions for in the old people's home, I wasn't 1026 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,960 Speaker 3: able to. But he he had served as a Esperanto 1027 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:07,320 Speaker 3: translator at the Popular Olympics and like lived out his 1028 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 3: whole life with the stream of like if we can, 1029 00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,440 Speaker 3: if we can, if we can break down the linguistic 1030 00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,120 Speaker 3: barriers between workers, and we can we can get together 1031 00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:16,000 Speaker 3: and change things. 1032 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,640 Speaker 5: Wow, that is fascinating. You know what's interesting about the 1033 00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:24,279 Speaker 5: whole Esperanto connection to anarchism is that long before I 1034 00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,840 Speaker 5: really got into anarchism or even learned about anarchism. I 1035 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,560 Speaker 5: actually tried to learn esperanto. 1036 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,520 Speaker 3: Let's here you go. It worked. Did they see that 1037 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,919 Speaker 3: this is what they wanted? You saw the barriers fall 1038 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,200 Speaker 3: down once you there, once you began speaking esperando. 1039 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:40,440 Speaker 6: I didn't get very far. 1040 00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,320 Speaker 5: I think it was around the time when like dueling 1041 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:48,080 Speaker 5: A first introduced it into their like courses, Okay, and 1042 00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,200 Speaker 5: I saw it, and I like did like a brief 1043 00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:52,840 Speaker 5: reading on it, and I was like, oh, this looks interesting, 1044 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,279 Speaker 5: and so I tried to pick it up and I 1045 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,520 Speaker 5: studied it for a little while, but I didn't get 1046 00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,720 Speaker 5: particularly far. Yeah, but now we're looking in the connection 1047 00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,719 Speaker 5: between Esperanto and atnarkis, I'm just like, wow, you know, 1048 00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:04,520 Speaker 5: the seeds were already there in a sense. 1049 00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you were ready for it. That 1050 00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,120 Speaker 3: was a dream of the of the nineteen twenties and thirties. 1051 00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:12,240 Speaker 3: I'm glad that you're living. 1052 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:12,959 Speaker 6: In for sure. 1053 00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,080 Speaker 5: And actually we're about to enter, well at least the 1054 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:21,840 Speaker 5: twentieth century. In our little historical review here, anarchists almost 1055 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,560 Speaker 5: really sunned to finally pick up steam by this point 1056 00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:30,320 Speaker 5: becoming very commonly known across Iuruguay. In fact, by nineteen eleven, 1057 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,040 Speaker 5: according to Capitaletes research of the official stats, there were 1058 00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:39,120 Speaker 5: one hundred and seventeen thousand industrial workers in Uruguay, and 1059 00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:44,880 Speaker 5: of those, ninety thousand were affiliated with the FRU. So 1060 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,120 Speaker 5: what's seventy six percent of those industrial workers were affiliated 1061 00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:55,800 Speaker 5: with an explicitly anarchist organization that included port workers, construction workers, 1062 00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,240 Speaker 5: metal workers, horse drivers, railway workers, and a lot more. 1063 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,520 Speaker 5: And to be honest with you, I'm not entirely show 1064 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,640 Speaker 5: what kept them from taking Boulder action compared to some 1065 00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:11,320 Speaker 5: of their neighbors, considering their proportion the numbers they had, 1066 00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,320 Speaker 5: But unfortunately didn't take very long for the movement to 1067 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:20,480 Speaker 5: be divided, particularly after the Russian Revolution. There was, of 1068 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,560 Speaker 5: course the influence of Bolshevik ideas that had split the 1069 00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,240 Speaker 5: movement somewhat, bringing workers onto the Bolshevik cause, and then 1070 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,840 Speaker 5: of course you had Bolshevik sponsorship. It was within the 1071 00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:38,680 Speaker 5: USSR's interest to support USSR aligned movements worldwide, and so 1072 00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,400 Speaker 5: a lot of libertarian groups around the world went into 1073 00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 5: decline in that time, including in Uruguay. Some of the 1074 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,720 Speaker 5: unions and up faltering under the pressure of both the 1075 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,280 Speaker 5: state and of course the new draw that was the 1076 00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:58,760 Speaker 5: Marxist Leninist groups. But of course the Libertarians never really 1077 00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:03,960 Speaker 5: gave up, they don't tend to historically speak it. So 1078 00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:08,240 Speaker 5: the unions and groups continued acting, continued producing papers. In fact, 1079 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,320 Speaker 5: there was a major surge and unionization in the nineteen forties. 1080 00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,000 Speaker 5: According to Poor Sharkis the feracio and anarchista i Uruguaya, 1081 00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:19,960 Speaker 5: especially among the textile workers, royal women talkers, construction workers 1082 00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,600 Speaker 5: and meat packers. And then outside of the union and 1083 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,320 Speaker 5: paper pushing scene you are set Uruguaian writers that continued 1084 00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:32,000 Speaker 5: to shape the cultural scene with anarchist ideas. Florencio Sanchez, 1085 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,840 Speaker 5: for example, was a playwright in the Rio de la 1086 00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,920 Speaker 5: Plata region whose experience in nationalist militias led him to 1087 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,440 Speaker 5: align himself with anarchist circles. He worked as a journalist 1088 00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,960 Speaker 5: while actively participating in anarchist organizations and publications, including La 1089 00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,920 Speaker 5: Partesta in Bunros Airis. His plays tackled social issues such 1090 00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,760 Speaker 5: as class struggle, intergenerational conflicts, and the hardships of the 1091 00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,680 Speaker 5: working class. Then you also had other Uruquian literary figures 1092 00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:03,320 Speaker 5: influenced by anchism and contributing to the libertarian literary movement, 1093 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:10,080 Speaker 5: including poet Julio Herrera Ierseg, novelist Torresio Kiroga, and Bohemian 1094 01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,120 Speaker 5: writer Roberto de las Carreras. And interestingly, there was another 1095 01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:18,880 Speaker 5: notable figure in anarchism connected perhaps the most or one 1096 01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,720 Speaker 5: of the most notable figures in anarchism, and that was 1097 01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,080 Speaker 5: the friend and biographer of Erico man A Testa himself, 1098 01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:31,200 Speaker 5: Luigi Fabri. Fabri founded the journal Study Sociali, which was 1099 01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:35,280 Speaker 5: one of the strongest libertarian publications in Uruguay and Latin America, 1100 01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:40,520 Speaker 5: and after he died, his daughter, Lucy Fabri, continued his 1101 01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,520 Speaker 5: work and edited the journal until nineteen forty six. Lucy 1102 01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,120 Speaker 5: Fabri was also one of the founders of the FAU 1103 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,320 Speaker 5: and she also published quite a few books in her time, 1104 01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,080 Speaker 5: many of which have yet to be translated into English. 1105 01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,440 Speaker 5: I wish I could you know, check them out. 1106 01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, Paul Shaky, he just mentioned he's the guy He's 1107 01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:04,280 Speaker 3: translated like a library of anarchist text. 1108 01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:05,000 Speaker 6: Yeah. 1109 01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think translators they don't get as much praise 1110 01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:12,320 Speaker 5: as they should. You know, they're a really underrated contribution 1111 01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,960 Speaker 5: to the movement and to the propagation of the movement 1112 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:15,800 Speaker 5: to new spaces. 1113 01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. I translated some text for a zine last year, 1114 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:21,800 Speaker 3: and it is a lot of work. 1115 01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:22,520 Speaker 6: Yep. 1116 01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:24,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, massive respect to people who do that. 1117 01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:30,280 Speaker 5: Unfortunately, translation is not as simple as just going wood forward, 1118 01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:32,720 Speaker 5: you know. You really do have to get the spirit 1119 01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,760 Speaker 5: of the text out of it somehow, sometimes with different 1120 01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:37,120 Speaker 5: phrasing and that kind of thing. 1121 01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:38,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, it's difficult. 1122 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:39,640 Speaker 3: Google can't do. 1123 01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,000 Speaker 6: That for you, yep. 1124 01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,880 Speaker 5: I mean, I appreciate having the ability to like go 1125 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:48,080 Speaker 5: on a website and like have Google Translates translate the 1126 01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,000 Speaker 5: web page quickly for me, but that has very clear 1127 01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,320 Speaker 5: and obvious weaknesses, you know when you go through it 1128 01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:58,600 Speaker 5: in terms of actually translating the information. Yeah, it's good 1129 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:03,320 Speaker 5: for like getting like a vague gist, right, but professional 1130 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,120 Speaker 5: translators aren't going away anytime soon. 1131 01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:08,560 Speaker 3: No. No, it's a great thing to do if you 1132 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,800 Speaker 3: if you have a couple of languages, like to make 1133 01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,440 Speaker 3: the world visible from someone else's perspective. It's such a 1134 01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,600 Speaker 3: wonderful thing to be able to try and share that. 1135 01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:19,680 Speaker 3: It's really special. Yeah, particularly for. 1136 01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,040 Speaker 5: The last less well known or less popular languages. Yeah, 1137 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:25,800 Speaker 5: you know, although you'll be surprised, some of the most 1138 01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,560 Speaker 5: popular languages, most widely spoken languages in the world, are 1139 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,840 Speaker 5: still lacking some key translations of some very key literature. 1140 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,520 Speaker 5: You know, you'd be surprised, like the kinds of texts 1141 01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,440 Speaker 5: that we take for granted, the theory and stuff we 1142 01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:44,160 Speaker 5: take for granted that's just not available and VICEIVI sir, 1143 01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,680 Speaker 5: you know, there's probably a lot of gems out there 1144 01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:49,480 Speaker 5: that I've yet to hit. 1145 01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:51,640 Speaker 6: The English language definitely. 1146 01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:55,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like just because especially if it's a big language, 1147 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,240 Speaker 3: like a language is something like Arabic of Spanish, Mandarin, 1148 01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,120 Speaker 3: where so many people speak it already, Like there's less 1149 01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,840 Speaker 3: need to translate it because like it's it's getting out there. 1150 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,200 Speaker 3: I suppose that pizza that isn't quite the same like 1151 01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,520 Speaker 3: urgency to translate it, but the ideas get out through 1152 01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,439 Speaker 3: sort of paraphrase, I suppose, because enough people can readly 1153 01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:18,160 Speaker 3: in the ritual language and then paraphrase it in other languages. 1154 01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, as long as the idea gets there, you know, 1155 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,600 Speaker 5: the exact words may not necessarily be important. 1156 01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some beauty and like the piece I translated 1157 01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,680 Speaker 3: was pretty sure, but it's the Belgian anarchists who fought 1158 01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:32,480 Speaker 3: in the Spanish Civil War and then went into exile 1159 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:35,840 Speaker 3: in South America. But the way he writes about the 1160 01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,440 Speaker 3: revolutionary moment is one of the most perfect and beautiful 1161 01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,760 Speaker 3: enclculations I've ever read, so like it was nice to 1162 01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:42,400 Speaker 3: be able to share that. 1163 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,080 Speaker 6: You should send that to me. What is it called. 1164 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:48,560 Speaker 3: It's called rejecting or refuting the legend by a guy 1165 01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,800 Speaker 3: called Louis Mercy. A Vega was the name he went by. 1166 01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,280 Speaker 3: Sometimes he also called himself Charles Riddle. That neither of 1167 01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:55,920 Speaker 3: those were his real names, but there's the names he 1168 01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,040 Speaker 3: lived most of his life under. I've been reading a 1169 01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:01,720 Speaker 3: lot of translations if to Rooty column memoirs. Another wonderful 1170 01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:03,800 Speaker 3: one is called Sons of the Night, which is by 1171 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,080 Speaker 3: an Italian anarchist who foll in Spain and they live 1172 01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:07,920 Speaker 3: the rest of his life in France. And then it's 1173 01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,320 Speaker 3: a beautiful book. Because he was a groundskeeper at the 1174 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,640 Speaker 3: Libertarian Club in Marseille, the young people of the Libertarian 1175 01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:18,200 Speaker 3: Club were so influenced by his life and his experiences 1176 01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,640 Speaker 3: and the way he talked about the world that after 1177 01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:23,760 Speaker 3: his passing they translated his diary and then wrote this 1178 01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:28,080 Speaker 3: huge historical sort of The footnotes are four times long 1179 01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,640 Speaker 3: as a book because the footnotes explain that the things 1180 01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,720 Speaker 3: that he's talking about and who the characters are, and 1181 01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,760 Speaker 3: it's it's a really kind of beautiful text. And it 1182 01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,520 Speaker 3: has the authors called themselves the Shewmnologues like that, the 1183 01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,720 Speaker 3: followers of Antoine j Minez. So it's kind of anonymously 1184 01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:46,360 Speaker 3: authored and I thin it's a really special like literary project. 1185 01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,480 Speaker 6: Wow, that's something that always moves me. 1186 01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,640 Speaker 5: You know, when somebody is able to have such an 1187 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:56,320 Speaker 5: impact on the lives of others that even in their. 1188 01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,720 Speaker 6: Absence, people you know, continue their lives. 1189 01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,880 Speaker 3: Were Yeah, yeah, it's a really special thing. I'll send 1190 01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,400 Speaker 3: you a link to it when with them, but I've 1191 01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:07,320 Speaker 3: diverted us a long way from Uraguai. I'm sorry. 1192 01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,000 Speaker 6: Oh, that's fine, that's fine. 1193 01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,840 Speaker 5: I think for this episode, there's just one other interesting 1194 01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:14,560 Speaker 5: moment in Uruguay's anarchist history that I want to cover, 1195 01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,280 Speaker 5: and I'll leave it at that before the next episode. 1196 01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:22,880 Speaker 6: But going down this rabbit hole was actually really interesting 1197 01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:23,200 Speaker 6: for me. 1198 01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:38,000 Speaker 5: So there was an experiment in the fifties in Uruguay 1199 01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:43,680 Speaker 5: called the Communidad del Sur, which was an anarchist intentional 1200 01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:48,320 Speaker 5: community experiment, and capolet He talks about it briefly as 1201 01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,600 Speaker 5: an effort by folks to live and work and eat 1202 01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,400 Speaker 5: and rare children together away from the injustices of capitalism 1203 01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:59,200 Speaker 5: on the state. Now, anarchism is not about establishing intentional communities, 1204 01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:04,360 Speaker 5: but many anarchists have found great reprieve and great joy 1205 01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:08,600 Speaker 5: in establishing those communities, in finding love and care and 1206 01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:13,120 Speaker 5: connection in those spaces. So these people spent about twenty 1207 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:17,560 Speaker 5: years living together, making decisions together, sharing finances, and sharing education. 1208 01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:21,360 Speaker 5: But the Irguayan military dictatorship stepped in and put an 1209 01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:25,000 Speaker 5: end to the project in nineteen seventy six. They spent 1210 01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:29,680 Speaker 5: that time afterwards living in exile. First they settled in Peru, 1211 01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:32,560 Speaker 5: and then they ended up in Spain, and then after 1212 01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:36,680 Speaker 5: that they found themselves in Sweden, of all places, where 1213 01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:41,600 Speaker 5: they continued their communal life and engaged in international political education. 1214 01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,280 Speaker 5: So that's all I ended up learning about them at first. 1215 01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:47,160 Speaker 5: But I wanted to digg a little deeper and find 1216 01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,320 Speaker 5: out what happened to them after that, and I wasn't 1217 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:56,440 Speaker 5: finding that information in English language sources, so I ended 1218 01:06:56,520 --> 01:07:01,080 Speaker 5: up unfortunately having to lean upon Google Translate for the 1219 01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:05,800 Speaker 5: Swedish and Spanish wikipedias, but those pages went into a 1220 01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,920 Speaker 5: little bit more depth, and so I was able to 1221 01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,560 Speaker 5: find out that this group ended up taking part in 1222 01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:17,720 Speaker 5: the occupation of the Mulvaden neighborhood in the late seventies, 1223 01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:21,800 Speaker 5: and they also translated Latin American anarchist texts into Swedish 1224 01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:26,040 Speaker 5: and vice versa. And then when the dictatorship in Uruguay ended, 1225 01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:28,800 Speaker 5: they returned to Uruguay with the money they raised with 1226 01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,680 Speaker 5: the hell of their Swedish comrades, and initially a few 1227 01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,040 Speaker 5: stay in Stockholm, so there was a split effort between 1228 01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:36,240 Speaker 5: Uruguay and Sweden for a bit, but the ones in 1229 01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:39,400 Speaker 5: Sweden were able to send money and equipment home and 1230 01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:42,200 Speaker 5: so eventually they were all able to focus in Uruguay 1231 01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,640 Speaker 5: and set up a printery and established a farm in 1232 01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:49,680 Speaker 5: the countryside outside Montevideo on land purchased with money collected 1233 01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:54,480 Speaker 5: in Sweden, where they focused on collective farm and organic agriculture, 1234 01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:58,920 Speaker 5: and apparently there's still active today. I found what seems 1235 01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,720 Speaker 5: to be their website, but it's no accessible. 1236 01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:02,280 Speaker 6: It's down. 1237 01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,360 Speaker 5: I tried to dig fit on web archive, but I 1238 01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,919 Speaker 5: wasn't getting much information out of that. But I also 1239 01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:11,600 Speaker 5: found of Swedish website that was talking about the activity, 1240 01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:13,600 Speaker 5: and I'll drop that in the show notes as well. 1241 01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:14,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, that'd be cool. 1242 01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,360 Speaker 5: So that particular website they said, and this is the 1243 01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:20,519 Speaker 5: rual translation of what they said, but it was quote. 1244 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,479 Speaker 5: In parallel with the other activities, the organization runs a 1245 01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:27,400 Speaker 5: farm which produces sweets from figs, goofer, blackberries and such 1246 01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:30,600 Speaker 5: aus fruits. It also presuves vegetables such as peppers and 1247 01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:35,360 Speaker 5: eggplant and produces its own tomato sauce. This small scale 1248 01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:37,880 Speaker 5: industry that the organization has built up is mainly run 1249 01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:41,640 Speaker 5: by a women's group, Comunidad There's Sosuro also participates in 1250 01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,040 Speaker 5: the collective Lapi Tanga that works for equality between women 1251 01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:49,320 Speaker 5: and men and against violence against women end quote. So 1252 01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:52,400 Speaker 5: they're doing some really important work in Uruguay after all 1253 01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:55,800 Speaker 5: these years. I can't find their exact location, but it 1254 01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,240 Speaker 5: seems they're based somewhere in La Palce. If anybody wants 1255 01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:01,120 Speaker 5: to reach out for food, the details what they're up 1256 01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,720 Speaker 5: to these days, their story is really fascinating to me, 1257 01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:06,439 Speaker 5: So I'd love to find out just that whole idea 1258 01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:12,240 Speaker 5: of this group feacing this victoria repression, resettling somewhere else, 1259 01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:15,600 Speaker 5: catching their breath, engaging actions elsewhere, and then me are 1260 01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,519 Speaker 5: being able to return home and continue the work. I 1261 01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:19,679 Speaker 5: find that very inspiring. 1262 01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:23,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really cool. That's what we hope for, you know, 1263 01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,320 Speaker 3: when like people are forced into exile, to be able 1264 01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:29,400 Speaker 3: to return eventually and to be like accepted into the 1265 01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,640 Speaker 3: community where they find themselves and able to like, like 1266 01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,400 Speaker 3: you say, catch your breath and build their strength and return. 1267 01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:36,800 Speaker 3: That's really cool. 1268 01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:37,120 Speaker 6: Yeah. 1269 01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:40,439 Speaker 5: I mean shout out to the Swedish anarchists who would have, 1270 01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,400 Speaker 5: you know, moved in solid arity with them and help 1271 01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,519 Speaker 5: them set up and that kind of thing if they did. 1272 01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:50,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, Swedish has been really good at accepting migrants and refugees. 1273 01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:54,479 Speaker 3: Unfortunately a number of people who had received assignment in 1274 01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,799 Speaker 3: Sweden were killed this week, so that fucking sucks, IRB 1275 01:09:57,960 --> 01:09:58,240 Speaker 3: to them. 1276 01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:02,880 Speaker 6: Yes, I think it just the mood is shifting as 1277 01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:03,439 Speaker 6: a lead. 1278 01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, all around the world thanks to the wonder of 1279 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:07,040 Speaker 3: social media, I think. 1280 01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:11,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, but you see the digression we had about translation 1281 01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:12,479 Speaker 5: and ended up connecting. 1282 01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:17,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, beautiful. Yeah, everyone listening, start learning Esperanto. 1283 01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:22,960 Speaker 5: I think that's a great hobby yellow I do question. 1284 01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:25,560 Speaker 5: I think it was like a really cool project and 1285 01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,920 Speaker 5: it's time. I don't know how well it can pick 1286 01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:30,360 Speaker 5: up today. 1287 01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,839 Speaker 3: Like Esperanto in the Age of Ai is an interesting 1288 01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,000 Speaker 3: I'd love to hear from Esperantis, honestly, like if we 1289 01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:38,960 Speaker 3: have Esperantis who listening. I still have a great deal 1290 01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,439 Speaker 3: of admiration for the project and like for the people 1291 01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,479 Speaker 3: who participate in it, and I've had a lot of 1292 01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:48,519 Speaker 3: communications with them because of their relations to Spanish anarchism, 1293 01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:51,400 Speaker 3: and they've always been the nicest, most interesting, welcoming people. 1294 01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,720 Speaker 3: So like, yeah, if you want to be I Esperanto guest, 1295 01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:56,519 Speaker 3: please hit me up. 1296 01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:57,280 Speaker 6: Yeah. 1297 01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe eventually I will get back into Esperanto and 1298 01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,040 Speaker 5: pick it up again. I'm still still working on my Spanish, 1299 01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:07,760 Speaker 5: as listeners can probably tell, but. 1300 01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:09,559 Speaker 6: We'll get there. 1301 01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:10,479 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1302 01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,519 Speaker 5: So we'll leave it here for today, but next time 1303 01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:16,360 Speaker 5: we're going to venture into how anarchists stayed active throughout 1304 01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,760 Speaker 5: the twentieth century and also contributed to the development of 1305 01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:25,720 Speaker 5: anarchist strategy internationally. Until then, I've been Andrew Sage, I've 1306 01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,479 Speaker 5: been here with James Stout and you can find me 1307 01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:33,240 Speaker 5: on YouTube dot com, slash andrewism on picture dot com, 1308 01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:37,639 Speaker 5: slashly and true. This is it could happen here, Heast 1309 01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:38,040 Speaker 5: be with you. 1310 01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:02,879 Speaker 7: Welcome to kadap Here increasingly ruled by an absolutely unhinged 1311 01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:06,920 Speaker 7: and unrestrained band of Nazis, and apparently they're democratic collaborators. 1312 01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,639 Speaker 7: I am your host, Mia Wong with Vus James Stout. 1313 01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:14,160 Speaker 3: I'm nia's collaborator today. Yay, this is a collaborator. Good. 1314 01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:16,479 Speaker 3: We are talking today about collaborator bad. 1315 01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:17,360 Speaker 4: So. 1316 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:22,479 Speaker 7: On Friday, Senator Chuck Schumer and his allies, in an 1317 01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:25,599 Speaker 7: act of democratic collaboration with the regime that looks even 1318 01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:27,880 Speaker 7: more hideous now than it did then, in the wake 1319 01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:31,320 Speaker 7: of a series of absolutely horrific deportations in the last 1320 01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:37,160 Speaker 7: few days, voted for basically a continuing funding resolution. So 1321 01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,280 Speaker 7: this is this is a little bit complicated, but I 1322 01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:43,599 Speaker 7: believe in US we can get through a little tiny 1323 01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,200 Speaker 7: bit of Senate bullshit. So basically what's happening is that 1324 01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:48,200 Speaker 7: they need a resolution to keep funding the government for 1325 01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:51,280 Speaker 7: a little bit until more negotiations. 1326 01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:53,240 Speaker 3: Can happen to fund a budget. There has been a budget. 1327 01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:55,519 Speaker 7: Basically, like we keep seeing this over and over again. 1328 01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,400 Speaker 7: They're keep being continuing funding resolutions, they keep almost being 1329 01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:01,040 Speaker 7: government shutdowns, because if there's not a continuing funding resolution 1330 01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:02,880 Speaker 7: and there's no budget, the government doesn't have any money. 1331 01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:05,519 Speaker 7: What happened here was that, So in the Senate you 1332 01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:09,559 Speaker 7: can filibuster this and a whole bunch of senators Schumer 1333 01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,640 Speaker 7: and others. We will be reading out later after we 1334 01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:15,360 Speaker 7: talk about what this resolution actually did, because it's unhinged. 1335 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,080 Speaker 7: So you've probably been hearing. If you've been hearing about this, 1336 01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,000 Speaker 7: you've been hearing you called a culture vote. So what 1337 01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:23,000 Speaker 7: that is is basically the absolute shortest version of it is, 1338 01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:24,559 Speaker 7: it's a vote to kill a philibuster on the bill. 1339 01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,519 Speaker 7: You filibuster by continuing debate. Culture ends debate, c et cetera, 1340 01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:35,840 Speaker 7: et cetera. So this resolution is staggeringly unhinged. It is 1341 01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:39,360 Speaker 7: not a very long funding continuation. It includes thirteen billion 1342 01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:42,360 Speaker 7: dollars and cuts a non military spending and also six 1343 01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:46,000 Speaker 7: billion dollars in military spending cuts. There are a lot 1344 01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:49,320 Speaker 7: of things that have been sort of defunded by this, 1345 01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,400 Speaker 7: including like a lot of like housing and urban development stuff. 1346 01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,720 Speaker 7: It's research ship, you know, and that's obviously really bad. 1347 01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:59,720 Speaker 7: Because normally with these resolutions, you're just sort of like 1348 01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:05,400 Speaker 7: continuing the funding, right, But this is not a normal 1349 01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:06,439 Speaker 7: continuing resolution. 1350 01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:08,600 Speaker 3: This is. 1351 01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:13,160 Speaker 7: It is over It is very very over dramatic to 1352 01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:14,840 Speaker 7: do the thing that a lot of people have been doing, 1353 01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:16,800 Speaker 7: which is comparing it to the enabling. 1354 01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:19,080 Speaker 3: Acts that the Nazis passed. Yeah, it's not. 1355 01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:26,839 Speaker 7: But but Comma, this is a completely unhinged continuing resolution. 1356 01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,519 Speaker 7: There has never been a continuing resolution like this ever, 1357 01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:34,120 Speaker 7: and it is Jenny Wineley. It is another step down 1358 01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:38,880 Speaker 7: the path of effectively having Trump running the government as 1359 01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,680 Speaker 7: a dictator by sort of pure fiat. And Okay, you 1360 01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:44,760 Speaker 7: can sally say this and you think this is an exaggeration, 1361 01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:50,439 Speaker 7: but what this continuing Resolution actually does is normally in 1362 01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:54,880 Speaker 7: one of these resolutions, Congress tells the executive how parts 1363 01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:56,560 Speaker 7: of the budget are supposed to be sent, right, it 1364 01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,280 Speaker 7: does allocations. It'll be like, okay, so there's this money 1365 01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,000 Speaker 7: for this thing. It goes to this purpose and you 1366 01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:05,160 Speaker 7: have to spend it here. This continuing resolution just. 1367 01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:06,519 Speaker 3: Like doesn't do that. 1368 01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:09,599 Speaker 7: Yeah, And the goal of it is just to let 1369 01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:12,040 Speaker 7: Trump do whatever the fuck he wants with the money 1370 01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,759 Speaker 7: by not actually giving out congressional things to specifically allocated. 1371 01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:17,760 Speaker 7: So this is more of a thing we've been seeing 1372 01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:22,400 Speaker 7: more and more, which is congress specifically like delegating and 1373 01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,800 Speaker 7: abandoning its constitutional power to be the people who set 1374 01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,280 Speaker 7: the budget and just heading it over to the executive 1375 01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,280 Speaker 7: so there can be a single unitary executive that runs 1376 01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:31,160 Speaker 7: the entire governments. 1377 01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:35,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean when you combine it with the open 1378 01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:40,200 Speaker 3: defiance of the court. So you saw this weekend with deportation, right, like, 1379 01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,080 Speaker 3: it's not a good not a good outlook actually, like 1380 01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,479 Speaker 3: it is in terms of the old separation of powers, 1381 01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,120 Speaker 3: which is supposed to be a thing. 1382 01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:52,000 Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, you could you could argue about whether 1383 01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,400 Speaker 7: the American Revolution was about the king being able to 1384 01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:56,600 Speaker 7: set taxes because that was technically a thing controlled by 1385 01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,080 Speaker 7: the British Parliament. But like it is, for example, the 1386 01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:02,479 Speaker 7: issue that like the Revolution of seventeen eighty nine was 1387 01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:05,880 Speaker 7: fought over, right like like that that there shouldn't be 1388 01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,000 Speaker 7: a single unitary executive who gets to fucking set the budget. 1389 01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:13,760 Speaker 3: It's fundamentally I don't want to say unconstitutional, because I 1390 01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,720 Speaker 3: guess I don't get to decide what is unconstitutional. And 1391 01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:19,240 Speaker 3: to the extent that it matters. 1392 01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,920 Speaker 7: Fucking fuck if we get well, I mean it doesn't matter. Yeah, 1393 01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:24,800 Speaker 7: but it is like obviously hideously unconstitutional. 1394 01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:28,280 Speaker 3: It's entirely against the basic principles of the constitution, right, 1395 01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:31,160 Speaker 3: like the scene kwan, none of the US Constitution, to 1396 01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,120 Speaker 3: use a fancy word, is separation of powers. Is It's 1397 01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:36,360 Speaker 3: not like the kind of the point of a thing 1398 01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,200 Speaker 3: is to not just have one older dude in charge 1399 01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:41,680 Speaker 3: like like that that is the English way. 1400 01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,760 Speaker 7: Yeah, and this is this is the fundamental like principles 1401 01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:47,920 Speaker 7: upon which the liberal notion of democracy is based. And 1402 01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:52,479 Speaker 7: I use liberal in like the seventeen early eighteen hundred 1403 01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:54,560 Speaker 7: cents of the word liberal, right, which is that, like 1404 01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:59,719 Speaker 7: you believe in democracy. This bill effectively just allows Trump 1405 01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:02,880 Speaker 7: to do funded defund programs at will. I mean there's 1406 01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:05,400 Speaker 7: you know, there are there are specific things like boundaries 1407 01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:07,960 Speaker 7: in which she can't and can't do this. But I'm 1408 01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:11,080 Speaker 7: gonna read some stuff from Senator Patting Burray, who is 1409 01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:14,560 Speaker 7: the vice chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee, which is 1410 01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:19,639 Speaker 7: the committee that handles like where money goes in the budget. 1411 01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:21,200 Speaker 3: Right, it's a budget appropriations et cetera. 1412 01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:21,479 Speaker 1: CA. 1413 01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:23,680 Speaker 7: So she, you know, is one of the Senatorsho sort 1414 01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:26,920 Speaker 7: of understands is intimately she wrote a fact sheet about this, 1415 01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,360 Speaker 7: which is fucking terrifying. I'm just going to quote from 1416 01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:33,360 Speaker 7: that because good God. Quote under this continuing resolution, that 1417 01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:37,080 Speaker 7: Trump administration could, for example, decide not to suspend funding 1418 01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:40,599 Speaker 7: previously allocated for Combating Fence and all the Support Act 1419 01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:43,360 Speaker 7: and other Substance abuse and mental health care programs or 1420 01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:48,040 Speaker 7: specific NIH priorities like Alzheimer's disease and vaccine research, and 1421 01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,439 Speaker 7: instead steer funding to other priorities if it's choosing. It 1422 01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:55,280 Speaker 7: could also pick and choose which military construction, Army Corps, 1423 01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,880 Speaker 7: or transit improvement and expansion projects to withdraw funding without 1424 01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,920 Speaker 7: direction from Congres, leaving democratic states and priorities in the lurch. 1425 01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:09,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that is like that's not great, Like even 1426 01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:11,439 Speaker 3: like I don't think people realize how much damage is 1427 01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:14,639 Speaker 3: could do and like, yeah, yeah, they have a year 1428 01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,960 Speaker 3: of just randomly slashing fit. Not only is it the 1429 01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:22,200 Speaker 3: programs who are affected, right, things that are cut, the 1430 01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:25,680 Speaker 3: certainty that contractors will get paid, The certainty that if 1431 01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:27,880 Speaker 3: you have a contract with the government it is a 1432 01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:32,800 Speaker 3: reliable thing like that will have devastating economic consequences. If 1433 01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,240 Speaker 3: they just start randomly yoinking contracts and not paying people. 1434 01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:38,639 Speaker 3: That's they did with the USAID suppliers, right. 1435 01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:42,040 Speaker 7: Yeah, So, like there is also a bunch of funding 1436 01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,120 Speaker 7: cuts for things like the Army Corps of Engineers, and like, 1437 01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:46,080 Speaker 7: there are a lot of valid criticisms you can have 1438 01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:48,479 Speaker 7: about the Army Corps of Engineers and for example, the 1439 01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,240 Speaker 7: way it has structurally fucked the entire city of New Orleans. 1440 01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:53,800 Speaker 7: But the thing is not giving them money to do 1441 01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:57,320 Speaker 7: hurricane prevention is not going to help that. And the 1442 01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,719 Speaker 7: thing about this, right, because this resolution has thirteen billion 1443 01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:03,960 Speaker 7: in direct budget cuts and then it also allows Trump 1444 01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:05,680 Speaker 7: to do more cuts on top of it by doing 1445 01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:09,280 Speaker 7: by doing these funding allocation things. Right, So it's it's 1446 01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:12,360 Speaker 7: like it's it's a fucking like double Yeah, it's sort 1447 01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:13,960 Speaker 7: of double set of cuts here. And this includes you know, 1448 01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,160 Speaker 7: he can he can reallgate money away from the FAA. 1449 01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:19,000 Speaker 7: One of the most absolutely terrifying ones is that this 1450 01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:22,800 Speaker 7: continuing resolution allows RFK Junior to eliminate funding for the 1451 01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:23,920 Speaker 7: universal flu vaccine. 1452 01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:24,439 Speaker 4: Yeah. 1453 01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:27,320 Speaker 3: I was talking to someone in a medical profession about this, 1454 01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:30,120 Speaker 3: Like there's a serious chance that is won't be h 1455 01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,800 Speaker 3: one developed in the US for next year and we'll 1456 01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:35,080 Speaker 3: just use the European one. Great stuff. 1457 01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:39,160 Speaker 7: You know, this is really the substantive problem with this 1458 01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:42,640 Speaker 7: entire thing and why it is genuinely an act of 1459 01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:46,439 Speaker 7: like an act an act of collaboration worthy Avichy France 1460 01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:50,080 Speaker 7: to fucking pass this, to pass this fucking bill. Is 1461 01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:54,479 Speaker 7: that again you are handing control of like the budgets, right, 1462 01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:58,360 Speaker 7: you're handing direct control of just like how budget allocation 1463 01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:02,679 Speaker 7: stuff gets gets fucking out with to like Elon Musk, 1464 01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,560 Speaker 7: Trump and RFK Junior, and they can just fucking do 1465 01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:06,360 Speaker 7: this shit with it. 1466 01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:11,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've already seen some of this, like manipulation of 1467 01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:14,599 Speaker 3: federal government funding, like with with Columbia University. Oh, we're 1468 01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:17,160 Speaker 3: gonna get to that. Yeah, okay, good exciting. 1469 01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:21,880 Speaker 7: Yeah, So other things. It defunds FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund, 1470 01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:23,880 Speaker 7: which is bad because a bunch of funding, the FEMA 1471 01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:29,120 Speaker 7: Disaster Relief Fund has been get this exhausted because there 1472 01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,160 Speaker 7: were a bunch of fucking disasters. Guess what, there's gonna 1473 01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:33,040 Speaker 7: be more of disasters. Guess what, There's not going to 1474 01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:35,479 Speaker 7: be money in ease the FEMA Disaster Relief Fund. 1475 01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:37,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's bad. Yeah. And here's the thing. 1476 01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:40,080 Speaker 7: We have not fucking hit the worst part of this 1477 01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,040 Speaker 7: continuing resolution yet, like all of that, right, like the 1478 01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,840 Speaker 7: monopolization of power in the hands of the executive, you know, 1479 01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:50,519 Speaker 7: like the potentially funding of the flu vaccine. 1480 01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:52,920 Speaker 3: We have not hit rock bottom yet. 1481 01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:59,040 Speaker 7: Rock bottom is this getting resolution quote slashes one hundred 1482 01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:02,120 Speaker 7: and eighty five million dollars seven percent of the total 1483 01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:07,200 Speaker 7: program from defense nuclear non proliferation programs, including the programs 1484 01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:10,960 Speaker 7: that prevent terrorists from acquiring nuclear and radioactive material, remove 1485 01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:14,040 Speaker 7: radioactive materials at risk of being misused or causing a 1486 01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:17,719 Speaker 7: catastrophic accident, and to ur and monitor foreign nuclear fuel 1487 01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:21,400 Speaker 7: cycle in weapons developments, nuclear materials movement or diversions, and 1488 01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:22,560 Speaker 7: nuclear explosions. 1489 01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:28,000 Speaker 3: Cool. So we are defunding the nuke police again for 1490 01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:29,920 Speaker 3: a third time, and this one looks like. 1491 01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:32,120 Speaker 7: It's actually gonna fucking stick because I don't think any 1492 01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,479 Speaker 7: of these fucking people actually understand what the defense nuclear 1493 01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,200 Speaker 7: non proliferation programs do. 1494 01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, because they will on one about Iran 1495 01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:45,200 Speaker 3: and enriching uranium for years. Have they have they just give? 1496 01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:45,960 Speaker 3: Have they moved on? 1497 01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:47,080 Speaker 1: Well? 1498 01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:49,200 Speaker 7: I like this as as we're going to see in 1499 01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:52,640 Speaker 7: a second, this budget is being written by just fucking clowns, 1500 01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:55,120 Speaker 7: like just absolute dipshits. 1501 01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:57,680 Speaker 3: I don't I don't know who the fuck is doing this. 1502 01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:00,280 Speaker 3: That's what I sometimes wonder is, like, who comes with 1503 01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:05,040 Speaker 3: these numbers? Like it's like staffers, it's literally an army 1504 01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:05,519 Speaker 3: of staffords. 1505 01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,000 Speaker 7: Yeah, the senators re voting for these bills most often 1506 01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:10,439 Speaker 7: have no idea what the fuck is in them. It's 1507 01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:12,439 Speaker 7: all run by an army of staffers. And the thing 1508 01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:14,200 Speaker 7: about it all being run by an army of staffers, 1509 01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,320 Speaker 7: and the fact that Republican staffers are increasingly drawn from 1510 01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:21,680 Speaker 7: a class of like genuinely the most unhinged people who 1511 01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,720 Speaker 7: have ever lived, this class of fucking internet gropers and 1512 01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:29,040 Speaker 7: fucking white nationalists bullshit, means that one of the parts 1513 01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:30,640 Speaker 7: of this I think people have heard about is the 1514 01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,800 Speaker 7: one billion dollars in spending that was cut just from 1515 01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:37,400 Speaker 7: like the city budget of Washington, DC. Now, looking at 1516 01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:40,120 Speaker 7: what's happened next, I genuinely think they did this by accidents. 1517 01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,800 Speaker 7: That's been the explanation that's been given is that they 1518 01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,000 Speaker 7: literally did it by accidents. And the reason I think 1519 01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,160 Speaker 7: it might actually be true, it's it's either it's either 1520 01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:51,439 Speaker 7: actually true or they saw the pushback. But immediately after 1521 01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:53,840 Speaker 7: this bill got passed, there was like a separate bill 1522 01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,439 Speaker 7: that was drafted to restore the funding, and that was 1523 01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:59,320 Speaker 7: approved unanimously by the second So it might legitimately have 1524 01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:01,719 Speaker 7: been a mistake. So it was either legitimately a mistake 1525 01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,479 Speaker 7: or all of these people realize that the entire population 1526 01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:06,280 Speaker 7: of DC was about to like fucking march on the 1527 01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:09,280 Speaker 7: capital of Pitchforks. So I don't know one of those 1528 01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:11,439 Speaker 7: two things. So we're not talking much about the DC 1529 01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:13,439 Speaker 7: stuff because it seems like the funding is going to 1530 01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:15,879 Speaker 7: come back, though if it doesn't well cover the catastrophic 1531 01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,479 Speaker 7: impacts of that. And there's one more thing, James, which 1532 01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:20,720 Speaker 7: I couldn't find details of, but one of the things 1533 01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:24,479 Speaker 7: that's supposed to do is eliminate protections for people an 1534 01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:25,240 Speaker 7: immigration course. 1535 01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:29,120 Speaker 3: Fantastic, Great, allow the Attorney General more power. Yeah, I 1536 01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,400 Speaker 3: was just looking this up. Actually, Like, let me there 1537 01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,280 Speaker 3: was an office founded under Biden that was the Office 1538 01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:38,320 Speaker 3: of the Obficely Immigration Detents from Ombudsman, which was like 1539 01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:43,200 Speaker 3: supposedly to exist to like examine people's conditions in immigration detention. Right, 1540 01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:48,400 Speaker 3: And I'm wondering to what extent it still exists. Yeah, 1541 01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:51,800 Speaker 3: Like I don't know. I was just trying to find 1542 01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:53,799 Speaker 3: that out. I would have to go through the resolution, 1543 01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:57,280 Speaker 3: and maybe I will at some point, but yeah, there 1544 01:23:57,400 --> 01:23:59,200 Speaker 3: is stuff that the federal government does right now that 1545 01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:05,800 Speaker 3: provides people with some protections in immigration courts, right, and yeah, 1546 01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,080 Speaker 3: I can see. I mean, look to the extent that 1547 01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:11,320 Speaker 3: that matters because they're just deporting people in open violation 1548 01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:14,639 Speaker 3: of court orders right now, we don't know. But it's 1549 01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,439 Speaker 3: still bad either way, right, taking away the very few 1550 01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:21,960 Speaker 3: protections that might have. Yeah, it's bad. Yeah, So speaking 1551 01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:24,000 Speaker 3: of bad things, we're going to go to ads and 1552 01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:24,960 Speaker 3: then we're going to come back. 1553 01:24:36,479 --> 01:24:38,080 Speaker 6: We are back. 1554 01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:43,799 Speaker 7: So, having said all of this about this bill, fully 1555 01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:48,799 Speaker 7: ten Democratic senators voted to avoid shutting down the government 1556 01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:53,320 Speaker 7: and fucking past this unbelievably hideous resolution, which again like 1557 01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:58,400 Speaker 7: defunds the nuke police. Again, they are risking like global 1558 01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:01,840 Speaker 7: annihilation by doing this. And I'm just going to read 1559 01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:03,519 Speaker 7: out the names of everyone who did this, because there's 1560 01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:05,040 Speaker 7: been a lot of focus on Chuck Schumer, and Chuck 1561 01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:08,120 Speaker 7: Schumer is to like probably the primary person responsible for this, 1562 01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:09,559 Speaker 7: but fuck every single one of these people. 1563 01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:14,040 Speaker 3: He's a quistling in this scenario, like the capital Q quisling. 1564 01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:19,599 Speaker 7: Yes, yes, okay, so Chuck Schumer, Katherine Cortes, mosto Dick Durbin, 1565 01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:22,880 Speaker 7: which is actually a surprising one because Durbin suburban's about 1566 01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:23,200 Speaker 7: to retire. 1567 01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:24,759 Speaker 3: He he was my old senator in Illinois. 1568 01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:27,840 Speaker 7: I actually know he wasn't wow a complicated I shtually 1569 01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:29,519 Speaker 7: fucking don't remember one of the which one of them 1570 01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:29,760 Speaker 7: I had? 1571 01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:29,960 Speaker 3: Uh? 1572 01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:34,320 Speaker 7: But Durbin is, you know, he's like senior party leadership guy. 1573 01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:39,720 Speaker 7: He's usually been in like the kind of left I 1574 01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:43,400 Speaker 7: guess of the like old Democratic leadership, which is not 1575 01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:44,280 Speaker 7: very far left. 1576 01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:45,880 Speaker 3: But he fucking voted for this. 1577 01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:50,160 Speaker 7: John Fetterman, to the surprise of absolutely no one, Kirsten Gillibrand, 1578 01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:53,519 Speaker 7: to the surprise of absolutely no one. Yeah, Maggie Hassan, 1579 01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:59,160 Speaker 7: Agnes King, Gary Peters, Brian Schatz, and Janine Shaheen now 1580 01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:03,920 Speaker 7: notably miss on that list. Tim fucking Kine voted against this. 1581 01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:07,680 Speaker 7: Do you know how bad a Republican budget thing has 1582 01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:11,240 Speaker 7: to be for Tim fucking kin to vote against it 1583 01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:13,760 Speaker 7: and be like, hey, guys, what the fuck are you doing? 1584 01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,920 Speaker 3: Yeah? And the thing is like, as a Democrat, the move, 1585 01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:20,360 Speaker 3: just if you want to get re elected is to 1586 01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:23,519 Speaker 3: vote against it and then blame them for everything bad 1587 01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:26,080 Speaker 3: that happens this year because of the budget thing, right 1588 01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:28,920 Speaker 3: if you have no moral backbone whatsoever. And I'm sure 1589 01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:32,719 Speaker 3: like there are things in this continuing Resolution which really 1590 01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:35,320 Speaker 3: screw over rural areas, right, like some of the funding 1591 01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:39,760 Speaker 3: that was allocated. Oh yeah, And like Cain is at least, 1592 01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:45,040 Speaker 3: I guess astute enough to see that when things get 1593 01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,400 Speaker 3: harder of his constituents, he can go, yes, they did this, 1594 01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:49,240 Speaker 3: and I voted against it, and you need to return 1595 01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:51,280 Speaker 3: me to office so I can continue opposing this shit, 1596 01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:54,320 Speaker 3: which is very cynical approach. Yeah, but then, yeah, we've 1597 01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:57,439 Speaker 3: just got Chuck Chuck Schumer who just kind of bowed 1598 01:26:57,479 --> 01:26:59,080 Speaker 3: down and kissed the ring. 1599 01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:03,000 Speaker 7: And you know, the response to this is staggering. I 1600 01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:06,200 Speaker 7: genuinely I have never seen anything like the kind of 1601 01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:08,200 Speaker 7: anger I'm seeing it. I I've seen that Schuber for 1602 01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:09,920 Speaker 7: the past few days. This has happened Friday. 1603 01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:14,960 Speaker 3: Like Indivisible, which is like a pretty so indivisible. 1604 01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,640 Speaker 7: Is like a sort of NGO thing that's like a 1605 01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:19,320 Speaker 7: like tries to get it's like a sort of vaguely 1606 01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:20,880 Speaker 7: progressive thing and tries to get people to vote for 1607 01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:21,480 Speaker 7: the Democrats. 1608 01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:23,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, and like register voters and stuff. 1609 01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:26,120 Speaker 7: Yeah, And they've been getting into fights with the Democratic 1610 01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:28,479 Speaker 7: leadership because they keep telling people to call their senators 1611 01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:30,840 Speaker 7: to tell them to oppose bills and nominations, and the 1612 01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:32,679 Speaker 7: Democrats are like, we don't want to impose bills. 1613 01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:37,479 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty. In mobilizing the vote in territory, for instance, 1614 01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:41,280 Speaker 3: like an indivisible to played a really important role, so 1615 01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:43,639 Speaker 3: like they're not negligible in their power. 1616 01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,000 Speaker 7: No, Yeah, and like they are calling for primary Chruck Schuber, 1617 01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:52,679 Speaker 7: R slash neoliberal is calling for AOC. 1618 01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:54,920 Speaker 3: The primary Chuck Schumer. 1619 01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:57,960 Speaker 7: Do you know how fucked things have to be for 1620 01:27:58,200 --> 01:28:03,679 Speaker 7: our slash neoliberal to be backing AOC against Chuck Schumer, 1621 01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:08,720 Speaker 7: like fucking nearer tandin is Agrey with Bertie Sanders criticizing 1622 01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:11,280 Speaker 7: Schumer for voting for this bill, like this is like, 1623 01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:15,280 Speaker 7: I I don't know, I think there maybe there are 1624 01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:17,719 Speaker 7: probably are people in the audience here who's like weren't 1625 01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:20,160 Speaker 7: paying attention enough or like don't remember, or like weren't 1626 01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:24,280 Speaker 7: old enough to be around for like like the Bernie wars. 1627 01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:27,600 Speaker 7: But this is like every faction on every side of 1628 01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:31,679 Speaker 7: like the whole series of fights from like twenty fifteen 1629 01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:35,640 Speaker 7: and like Bernie's first thing through twenty twenty, even like 1630 01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:38,559 Speaker 7: the mid late twenty twenties, Like all of these people 1631 01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:42,439 Speaker 7: were on exactly polar opposite side. They fucking hated each other, 1632 01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:46,280 Speaker 7: and they're all like coming together specifically to agree on 1633 01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:48,160 Speaker 7: a fuck Chuck Schumer campaign to the point where like 1634 01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:51,439 Speaker 7: again like Arslaus neoliberal and like Nearer, Tandent, who are 1635 01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:53,880 Speaker 7: like have been just absolute stalwarts at the party right 1636 01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:55,559 Speaker 7: for ages are like are. 1637 01:28:55,520 --> 01:29:02,040 Speaker 3: Backing AOC primarying Chuck Schumer. Yeah, it's a total cultural 1638 01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:04,920 Speaker 3: victory for the Bernie bros. Is what's happening. It's a 1639 01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:05,840 Speaker 3: Democratic party. 1640 01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:07,519 Speaker 7: Well, and again, the Chuck Chuber is the head of 1641 01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:08,760 Speaker 7: the Democratic Caucus in the Senate. 1642 01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:10,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, minority leader of the United States Senate. 1643 01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,360 Speaker 7: Yeah, he is, you know, he is unbeliefably powerful, and 1644 01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:15,680 Speaker 7: I mean, like the people criticizing him. 1645 01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:16,880 Speaker 3: He got criticized. 1646 01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:19,880 Speaker 7: There was a joint statement on funding bill in the 1647 01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:24,960 Speaker 7: Senate from the Democratic minority leader in the fucking House, 1648 01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:29,479 Speaker 7: Hakim Jeffries, and the Democratic Whipcathleen Clark, and the Caucus 1649 01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:33,840 Speaker 7: chair peri agular and like Hawkim Jeffries is as ferociously 1650 01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:37,599 Speaker 7: anti socialist of a politician as there exists in all 1651 01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:41,640 Speaker 7: of Congress. He is like implacably hostile to even like 1652 01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:47,560 Speaker 7: the most like barraest progressive things whatsoever. He is just 1653 01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:52,880 Speaker 7: staggeringly opposed to. And they released a joint statement against this, right, 1654 01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:56,160 Speaker 7: what is sort of happening here, And it's happening fucking 1655 01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:58,320 Speaker 7: too late to stop anything, But what's happening here is 1656 01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:01,439 Speaker 7: like we are genuinely starting to get a kind of 1657 01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:04,920 Speaker 7: and I'm seeing this sort of online. We've been I 1658 01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:06,240 Speaker 7: think we've been seeing the sort of echoes of it 1659 01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:09,320 Speaker 7: is like, but there's a kind of realignment happening among 1660 01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:12,519 Speaker 7: you know, obviously this has been being opposed by people 1661 01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:14,920 Speaker 7: outside the Democratic Party and by a lot of the 1662 01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:18,720 Speaker 7: Democratic Party's base for ages right and the Democratic Party's base, 1663 01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:21,320 Speaker 7: and also just like people who don't want to get 1664 01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:24,120 Speaker 7: be ruled by fascist forever have had, you know, incredibly 1665 01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:27,760 Speaker 7: staunch opposition to all of the collaborationists investment happening. But 1666 01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:30,160 Speaker 7: what's happening right now is that like the actual like 1667 01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:33,200 Speaker 7: inside of the Democratic Party, there was a fucking rupture happening, 1668 01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:35,160 Speaker 7: and inside of the people who are like, you know, 1669 01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:37,160 Speaker 7: like inside of the politic cost there was a rupture 1670 01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:39,479 Speaker 7: happening between people who are collaborationists and people who'd like 1671 01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:41,000 Speaker 7: want to be less collaborationist. 1672 01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:44,080 Speaker 3: And this is to the point where like Nancy Pelosi 1673 01:30:44,640 --> 01:30:45,439 Speaker 3: came out against this. 1674 01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:48,680 Speaker 7: Yeah, and the reason they're doing this is because a 1675 01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:51,080 Speaker 7: lot of these people are fucking terrified because they are 1676 01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:53,080 Speaker 7: looking at a couple of things. One they're looking at 1677 01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:55,960 Speaker 7: what the Trump administration is doing, and they're going, holy shit, 1678 01:30:56,240 --> 01:30:58,840 Speaker 7: Like near A Tandon is looking at them, fucking just 1679 01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:03,000 Speaker 7: black bagging. It's just like just fucking black bagging Mamu 1680 01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:06,000 Speaker 7: Khalil and is going like, holy shit, we are maybe 1681 01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:08,840 Speaker 7: about I mean, it's maybe eight steps away from that 1682 01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:10,920 Speaker 7: happening to be, but that's eight steps that you can 1683 01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:13,840 Speaker 7: fucking like, that's a path you can walk down. And 1684 01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:16,840 Speaker 7: this is also these people that are realizing just the 1685 01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:22,439 Speaker 7: unbelievable anger among just like regular what you would call 1686 01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:25,760 Speaker 7: sort of like regular liberals who aren't like, like, you 1687 01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:27,320 Speaker 7: vote for the Democrats, but if you aren't like. 1688 01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:29,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not like on Twitter with a blue wave emotion. 1689 01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:32,200 Speaker 7: But the thing is, even the people on Twitter with 1690 01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:34,040 Speaker 7: a blue wave emoji, and again, like the arch last 1691 01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:37,639 Speaker 7: neoliberal people are like the most ideologically committed of all 1692 01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:41,479 Speaker 7: of these people, right, Like even the most unhinged nerds 1693 01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:45,920 Speaker 7: who are like obsessed with like individual house races and 1694 01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:50,000 Speaker 7: like very very specific, weird technical policy stuff that allows 1695 01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:52,920 Speaker 7: them to justify supporting all these unhinged policies, even those 1696 01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:56,479 Speaker 7: people are turning on them. And the reason this is 1697 01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:58,880 Speaker 7: all happening, and I think this is a very very 1698 01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:02,240 Speaker 7: important thing to understand about the entire political landscape going forward, 1699 01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:05,840 Speaker 7: is that one of the core, an extremely important basis 1700 01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:08,560 Speaker 7: of Donald Trump's support is in the leadership of the 1701 01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,960 Speaker 7: Democratic Party, particularly the Democratic Party in New York, Right Schumer, 1702 01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:17,080 Speaker 7: this is Eric Adams. This is also increasingly becoming true 1703 01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:18,880 Speaker 7: of people like Gavin Newsom and a lot of the 1704 01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:21,160 Speaker 7: sort of Democrats out of the Bay to some extent, 1705 01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:23,000 Speaker 7: And you know, and you can you can see this 1706 01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:26,200 Speaker 7: in sort of various border states too, where you know, 1707 01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:30,400 Speaker 7: these people fundamentally are doing this because they fucking agree 1708 01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:33,720 Speaker 7: with him. That's why why, that's why they're fucking collaborating. 1709 01:32:33,400 --> 01:32:36,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, or at the very least like and perhaps it's 1710 01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:41,120 Speaker 3: in a sense worse that they don't agree with him, 1711 01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:45,360 Speaker 3: but they don't care enough to not like they're doing 1712 01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:47,040 Speaker 3: it because they think they can personally benefit. 1713 01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:50,040 Speaker 7: No, I don't think that's true. And my evidence for 1714 01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:52,000 Speaker 7: why I don't think that's true is I'm going to 1715 01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,040 Speaker 7: read some stuff from from the New York Times interview 1716 01:32:54,040 --> 01:33:06,840 Speaker 7: that they would chuck Schumer right after he did this. Okay, 1717 01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:09,720 Speaker 7: So in this interview with the New York Times, he 1718 01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:13,120 Speaker 7: gets asked about Trump cutting four hundred million dollars of 1719 01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:16,799 Speaker 7: funding for Columbia University for I guess, not like publicly 1720 01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:18,360 Speaker 7: executing the Palestine protesters. 1721 01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:20,000 Speaker 3: And again, yeah, Columbia University. 1722 01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:24,400 Speaker 7: That is an institution that he represents in the Senate, right, Yeah, 1723 01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:26,720 Speaker 7: Like that's like his that's like his fucking thing. And 1724 01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:30,000 Speaker 7: his response was, well, obviously they didn't crush the campus 1725 01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:33,240 Speaker 7: protests hard enough, but cutting four hundred million dollars spending 1726 01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:38,120 Speaker 7: might hurt students who didn't protest, like maybe, And he's 1727 01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:39,800 Speaker 7: not even clear about that, right, So if you read 1728 01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:42,680 Speaker 7: between the lines of what he's saying, his arguments is 1729 01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:45,360 Speaker 7: that it's actually fine for Trump to do all of 1730 01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,559 Speaker 7: these fucking budget cuts of all of these people from 1731 01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:52,920 Speaker 7: these universities, as long as it's specifically targeting pro Palestinian protesters, 1732 01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:56,519 Speaker 7: such as anyone who's vaguely pro Palestine. And he also 1733 01:33:56,640 --> 01:33:59,280 Speaker 7: gets you know, he gets asked about the Trump administration 1734 01:33:59,360 --> 01:34:02,439 Speaker 7: just straight a black bagging Moo Khalil, and he says, quote, 1735 01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:04,640 Speaker 7: I don't know all the details yet. They're trying to 1736 01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:06,840 Speaker 7: come out and there'll be a court case which will 1737 01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:09,599 Speaker 7: determine it. If he broke the law, he should be deported. 1738 01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:11,280 Speaker 7: If he didn't break the law on which and just 1739 01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:14,200 Speaker 7: peacefully protested, he should not be deported. It's plain and simple. 1740 01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:18,400 Speaker 3: I mean, how is it hard to not make an 1741 01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:21,120 Speaker 3: equivocating statement on that. No, because he agrees with it. 1742 01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:22,680 Speaker 3: He thinks it's fine. He thinks it's fine. 1743 01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:25,519 Speaker 7: The Trump administration fucking black bagged this guy, like again, 1744 01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:27,680 Speaker 7: who is who it was? A permanent US resident. He 1745 01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:31,360 Speaker 7: thinks that it is okay. That here's the thing, he's 1746 01:34:31,479 --> 01:34:35,560 Speaker 7: not even disagreeing with the actual literal black bagging. And 1747 01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:37,759 Speaker 7: I want to point this out, like even if Amu 1748 01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:41,080 Speaker 7: Khalil like legally committed a crime, like that's not a 1749 01:34:41,120 --> 01:34:42,120 Speaker 7: fucking deportation thing. 1750 01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:46,320 Speaker 3: The section of the United States they're using to justify 1751 01:34:46,439 --> 01:34:49,519 Speaker 3: deporting him is not one that has been used before. 1752 01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:51,479 Speaker 3: This is not he did not do a felony, and 1753 01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:54,200 Speaker 3: they're not suggesting that he did do a felony. And 1754 01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:58,040 Speaker 3: like if Schumer can't find it in himself to condemn that, 1755 01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:01,240 Speaker 3: like yeah, like folks need to move on because because 1756 01:35:01,240 --> 01:35:03,080 Speaker 3: he agrees with it, Like that's the thing, Like, yeah, 1757 01:35:03,080 --> 01:35:05,400 Speaker 3: what he is saying here is that he agrees that 1758 01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:10,519 Speaker 3: if a permanent legal US resident commits any crime, well 1759 01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:13,000 Speaker 3: doesn't though he's not accused, he's not accused of a crime, 1760 01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:15,080 Speaker 3: like he's he no, no, that's not's no. 1761 01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:19,320 Speaker 7: But this is specifically what says Schumer said, quote, if 1762 01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:21,519 Speaker 7: he broke the law, he should be deported. What his 1763 01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:24,160 Speaker 7: stance is is that if someone who is a permanent 1764 01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:27,799 Speaker 7: US resident breaks the law while at a Palestine protest, 1765 01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:29,560 Speaker 7: even if it is a misdemeanor, even if it is 1766 01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:33,320 Speaker 7: fucking jaywalking, that they should be deported. That is the 1767 01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:36,320 Speaker 7: Trump administration line. Like that is it is slightly less 1768 01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:37,920 Speaker 7: than Trump administration line, but that is that is a 1769 01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:42,400 Speaker 7: genuinely fascist political line. She just straight up agrees with 1770 01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:45,840 Speaker 7: the administration. He is a slight matter of degree like 1771 01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:48,479 Speaker 7: off from them, but like he's he just like he's 1772 01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:52,200 Speaker 7: collaborating because he fucking agrees with them. He agrees with 1773 01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:55,000 Speaker 7: them both on on the fact that the state should 1774 01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:59,040 Speaker 7: be used to like destroy anyone who supports Palestine, and 1775 01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:02,240 Speaker 7: she agrees with them on the fucking deportation ship. Because 1776 01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:03,800 Speaker 7: you know, this was one of the other things that 1777 01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:06,679 Speaker 7: Democrats have fundamentally aligned with Trump on since twenty twenty 1778 01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:10,200 Speaker 7: is that fundamentally, like they agree that we need more 1779 01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:12,840 Speaker 7: immigration controls and we need to do more border violence. 1780 01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:14,720 Speaker 7: You can see the evidence of this from when they 1781 01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:18,360 Speaker 7: fucking passed that just unhinged fascist bill to do allow 1782 01:36:18,479 --> 01:36:19,760 Speaker 7: border state of emergencies. 1783 01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:23,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's stuff that they proposed and didn't pass 1784 01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:24,960 Speaker 3: because they were republiants tenty to kill it and then 1785 01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:29,160 Speaker 3: Biden executive order banning asylum. Like I think what it 1786 01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:31,760 Speaker 3: comes down to is that for the Democrats, the existence 1787 01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:34,479 Speaker 3: of people who oppose the genocide in Palestine and the 1788 01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:39,280 Speaker 3: existence of migrants is seen as inconvenient, and they're prepared 1789 01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:42,240 Speaker 3: to do away with any rights so as people might have, 1790 01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,679 Speaker 3: and even do away with those people rather than engage 1791 01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:49,320 Speaker 3: with them in any way. Right, they I'm sure, people 1792 01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:53,000 Speaker 3: like Schuma continue to blame people from both of those 1793 01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:56,800 Speaker 3: movements for their ass whooping that they took at the 1794 01:36:56,840 --> 01:37:00,280 Speaker 3: polls in twenty twenty four because they decide, I did 1795 01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:02,960 Speaker 3: that it was more important to do genocide than it 1796 01:37:03,160 --> 01:37:06,120 Speaker 3: was to listen to Vose in this country rather than listening. 1797 01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:09,560 Speaker 3: Now they're blaming them, and the only logical way for 1798 01:37:09,680 --> 01:37:12,320 Speaker 3: them to go is right, and the only logical place 1799 01:37:12,360 --> 01:37:14,400 Speaker 3: for them to take it is more state violence. 1800 01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:14,720 Speaker 6: Right. 1801 01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:16,960 Speaker 7: Yeah, But there's another aspect of this too, which the 1802 01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:18,600 Speaker 7: thing I want to close on, which is okay, So, 1803 01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:20,960 Speaker 7: why why have the Democrats been shifting so far to 1804 01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:24,200 Speaker 7: the right since twenty twenty right, and particularly since after 1805 01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:25,800 Speaker 7: twenty twenty two when they needed to sort of win 1806 01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:28,639 Speaker 7: it contesta for election. And the answer is that after 1807 01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:31,519 Speaker 7: twenty twenty all of their politics became about opposing the 1808 01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:34,559 Speaker 7: uprising because they you know, that there was a period 1809 01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:36,560 Speaker 7: dream the uprising where they were scared enough that like 1810 01:37:36,680 --> 01:37:38,560 Speaker 7: you get like the Kent cloth shit, and they're like, 1811 01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:40,600 Speaker 7: you know, and they're talking about like and Biden like 1812 01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:45,600 Speaker 7: runs on a significantly more left wing platform than like 1813 01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:49,320 Speaker 7: Kamala Harris did, right, yeah, like because of the particularly 1814 01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:51,320 Speaker 7: because of the pressure of those protests. Now obviously, like 1815 01:37:51,360 --> 01:37:54,880 Speaker 7: presidential platforms just lies, right but right, yeah, it's just 1816 01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:56,479 Speaker 7: likes you need to tell to get the votes. 1817 01:37:56,560 --> 01:37:56,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1818 01:37:56,840 --> 01:37:57,000 Speaker 6: Yeah. 1819 01:37:57,200 --> 01:38:00,519 Speaker 7: But on the other hand, the fundamental politics of Democratic 1820 01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:02,880 Speaker 7: Party in the last half a decade has been opposing 1821 01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:05,160 Speaker 7: the uprising. It's the thing that's, you know, behind all 1822 01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:07,080 Speaker 7: of their turn to tough on crime politics. It's the 1823 01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:09,120 Speaker 7: thing behind their their's sort of anti immigrant politics, the 1824 01:38:09,160 --> 01:38:11,280 Speaker 7: thing behind the turns they've been taking on trans politics. 1825 01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:15,479 Speaker 7: And the problem with this particularly like the anti black, 1826 01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:18,640 Speaker 7: anti crime shit and the anti immigrant stuff, you know 1827 01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:22,920 Speaker 7: who else. His entire politics like came into the fucking 1828 01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:26,240 Speaker 7: political sphere as the right wing reaction to the uprising. 1829 01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:29,120 Speaker 7: Oh wait, Donald Trump. Donald Trump walked down the fucking 1830 01:38:29,240 --> 01:38:31,840 Speaker 7: escalator in twenty fifteen, immediately in the wake of the 1831 01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:34,240 Speaker 7: giant uprisings in Baltimore in twenty fifteen, which I think 1832 01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:38,000 Speaker 7: people have sort of memory holds, like Ferguson and Baltimore. 1833 01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:41,160 Speaker 7: He like, it's like right after Baltimore that Trump fucking 1834 01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:44,480 Speaker 7: comes down the escalator and that and people forget how fundamentally, 1835 01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:48,360 Speaker 7: the right wing reaction to those protests deranged people who 1836 01:38:48,520 --> 01:38:52,519 Speaker 7: even the Tea Party hadn't pushed like far enough to 1837 01:38:53,439 --> 01:38:54,280 Speaker 7: vote for Donald Trump. 1838 01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:56,559 Speaker 3: It was like it was reaction to this. Yeah, that's 1839 01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:58,719 Speaker 3: when we saw the oath Keepers for the first time 1840 01:38:58,840 --> 01:39:02,120 Speaker 3: as well, Like this kind of militant right really grew 1841 01:39:02,240 --> 01:39:04,000 Speaker 3: dramatically in response to that. 1842 01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:07,200 Speaker 7: Yeah, And this is the sort of fundamental thing that's 1843 01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:10,120 Speaker 7: going on, is that there's now an entire class of 1844 01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:11,960 Speaker 7: people who are running the Democratic Party. 1845 01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:12,120 Speaker 1: Right. 1846 01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:15,000 Speaker 7: This is a fucking Chuck Schumer. He is, like, I mean, 1847 01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:17,760 Speaker 7: quite possibly the most powerful Democrat in the country, and 1848 01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:20,160 Speaker 7: he is just straight up a collaborationist. 1849 01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:24,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it might legit become that like AOC is more 1850 01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:26,840 Speaker 3: powerful than Chuck Schumer in the next few weeks, you know, 1851 01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:30,040 Speaker 3: he is that the reaction against Chuck Schumer from establishment 1852 01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:33,880 Speaker 3: Democrats is stronger than anything I've ever seen from them. 1853 01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:37,760 Speaker 7: He lost Seth Moulton, which I didn't even think was possible. Yeah, 1854 01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:40,080 Speaker 7: But I think there's there's one more important note to 1855 01:39:40,120 --> 01:39:41,760 Speaker 7: sort of say here, which is that, like, you know, 1856 01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:44,560 Speaker 7: the response to this that I've largely been seeing is 1857 01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:47,320 Speaker 7: everyone going, Okay, we need a primary these people. Okay, 1858 01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:49,720 Speaker 7: are you looking at the rate at which stuff is 1859 01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:52,720 Speaker 7: happening in this country? Like you do you think that 1860 01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:54,600 Speaker 7: we are going to be able to wait until the 1861 01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:55,840 Speaker 7: fucking primaries? 1862 01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:57,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, six years the seventh places, right. 1863 01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:00,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, until we can like a t to fucking do 1864 01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:03,759 Speaker 7: shit here, Like absolutely not. No, they were like there 1865 01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:06,920 Speaker 7: literally is regardless of what you think about electoralism as 1866 01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:10,240 Speaker 7: a strategy, there is literally not time to wait until 1867 01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:13,320 Speaker 7: the next election cycle. Like again, they have defunded the 1868 01:40:13,360 --> 01:40:16,720 Speaker 7: nuke police for the third time. So the opposition to 1869 01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:18,719 Speaker 7: this isn't going to come from inside of the electoral 1870 01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:20,479 Speaker 7: system because again that ever coats are being run by 1871 01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:22,760 Speaker 7: collaborators and there's not enough time to fucking oust them. 1872 01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:25,320 Speaker 7: So if you if you want this to not continue, 1873 01:40:25,400 --> 01:40:27,160 Speaker 7: you were going to You're going to have to find 1874 01:40:27,240 --> 01:40:30,479 Speaker 7: ways to do organizing outside of that system. We have 1875 01:40:31,040 --> 01:40:33,840 Speaker 7: approximately one million episodes about this. You can also go 1876 01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:36,839 Speaker 7: back to my you already know how to organize episode. 1877 01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:40,400 Speaker 3: But yeah, look, call your centator if you want too. 1878 01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:43,160 Speaker 3: But if that's the net total of your political activity, 1879 01:40:43,240 --> 01:40:45,000 Speaker 3: then like right now, it's probably not going to make 1880 01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:48,160 Speaker 3: a difference in time, and really consider it it's the 1881 01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:51,519 Speaker 3: most useful use of your time. Yeah, and maybe make 1882 01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:54,920 Speaker 3: some beans or sew something nice for someone instead. Well 1883 01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:57,280 Speaker 3: as well, you could listen to it while you sew 1884 01:40:57,360 --> 01:41:00,400 Speaker 3: something nice. You could call them while you're cooking, you'll beans. 1885 01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:04,960 Speaker 3: Hell yeah, well this has been It could happen here. Yeah, 1886 01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:09,920 Speaker 3: down with the collaborationists. Yeah, fuck them. Yeah, absolutely fucking fun. 1887 01:41:10,040 --> 01:41:12,400 Speaker 3: Chuck Schume in particular. 1888 01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:38,160 Speaker 8: This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. Tesla 1889 01:41:38,320 --> 01:41:42,920 Speaker 8: derangement syndrome is sweeping the nation the last week. On 1890 01:41:43,120 --> 01:41:47,120 Speaker 8: March eleventh, President Donald Trump starred in a thirty five 1891 01:41:47,240 --> 01:41:51,320 Speaker 8: minute Tesla commercial broadcast live from the White House driveway 1892 01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:56,120 Speaker 8: to news stations across the country. This presidential ad campaign 1893 01:41:56,200 --> 01:41:58,880 Speaker 8: started with Trump announcing that he himself would buy a 1894 01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:03,599 Speaker 8: Tesla in some of his unique advisor Elon Musk, whose 1895 01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:06,920 Speaker 8: business ventures have taken a sour turn as of late, 1896 01:42:08,040 --> 01:42:11,240 Speaker 8: to assist Trump with his purchase, The South Lawn was 1897 01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:15,599 Speaker 8: temporarily turned into a Tesla showroom with five different models 1898 01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:18,240 Speaker 8: parked in a row to choose which shiny new car 1899 01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:22,360 Speaker 8: to buy. A significant portion of this Tesla sales event 1900 01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:26,799 Speaker 8: was spent by Trump praising Elon Musk's work at DOGE, 1901 01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:32,120 Speaker 8: as well as Elon's business ventures, and complaining about people 1902 01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:37,200 Speaker 8: treating Elon Musk unfairly, saying that he quote shouldn't be 1903 01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:39,520 Speaker 8: penalized because he's a patriot. 1904 01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:42,920 Speaker 9: My guess, I'm just telling people, this man is a 1905 01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:47,479 Speaker 9: great patriot, and you should cherish him. You should cherish him. 1906 01:42:47,479 --> 01:42:47,600 Speaker 10: You know. 1907 01:42:47,600 --> 01:42:48,599 Speaker 6: I have a little statement. 1908 01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:50,960 Speaker 9: We have to take care of our high IQ people 1909 01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:52,559 Speaker 9: because we don't have too many of them. 1910 01:42:53,320 --> 01:42:54,320 Speaker 1: We got to take care of him. 1911 01:42:56,600 --> 01:42:59,799 Speaker 8: As for the cars, Trump mentioned that he actually already 1912 01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:03,960 Speaker 8: a cyber truck for his granddaughter Kai, which Trump called 1913 01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:08,160 Speaker 8: the coolest design, but this time he chose a red 1914 01:43:08,360 --> 01:43:12,080 Speaker 8: Tesla model. S Upon climbing in the car that secret 1915 01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:15,360 Speaker 8: service does not allow him to operate, Trump remarked, Wow, 1916 01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:21,000 Speaker 8: everything's computer. At the end of the live streamed Tesla commercial, 1917 01:43:21,320 --> 01:43:23,720 Speaker 8: Trump said that he would pay with a check, though 1918 01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:26,599 Speaker 8: for the duration of the event, Trump served as both 1919 01:43:26,720 --> 01:43:30,400 Speaker 8: buyer and salesman as he read off from a sheet 1920 01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:34,000 Speaker 8: of notes on pricing and features for various Tesla models, 1921 01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:37,120 Speaker 8: like how quote Tesla's can be purchased for as low 1922 01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:38,679 Speaker 8: as two ninety nine a month. 1923 01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:41,559 Speaker 9: So I'm out of information that's put into priv Yeah, 1924 01:43:41,600 --> 01:43:43,760 Speaker 9: I want to make a good deal here, you know, 1925 01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:48,120 Speaker 9: I do notice this they have won, which is thirty 1926 01:43:48,160 --> 01:43:50,920 Speaker 9: five thousand dollars, which is pretty low. What is that 1927 01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:51,479 Speaker 9: all about? 1928 01:43:52,240 --> 01:43:55,960 Speaker 8: This whole charade was an explicit attempt to rescue Tesla's 1929 01:43:56,040 --> 01:43:59,560 Speaker 8: plummeting stock price and help foster a new demographic of 1930 01:43:59,640 --> 01:44:03,599 Speaker 8: electric car buyers, anti wo conservatives looking to show support 1931 01:44:03,640 --> 01:44:06,599 Speaker 8: of Elon Musk, Doge, and the new Trump administration through 1932 01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:10,960 Speaker 8: consumer purchases. Trump himself said that he hoped doing ads 1933 01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:14,240 Speaker 8: for Tesla on the White House driveway would help Tesla's 1934 01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:19,040 Speaker 8: stock value and encouraged others to buy Elon's cars. The 1935 01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:22,720 Speaker 8: next day, Tesla shares did rise four percent, but are 1936 01:44:22,840 --> 01:44:26,680 Speaker 8: now trending back down amid a global wave of protests 1937 01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:30,720 Speaker 8: against Tesla four Musk's involvement with Doge and the Trump administration, 1938 01:44:31,320 --> 01:44:36,960 Speaker 8: as well as Elon's Nazi curious behavior. Trump has tried 1939 01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:39,439 Speaker 8: to face this wave of hate against his new best friend, 1940 01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:43,519 Speaker 8: head On truthing on his platform of choice Truth social 1941 01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:47,400 Speaker 8: last week quote, Elon Musk is putting it on the 1942 01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:50,000 Speaker 8: line in order to help our nation, and he is 1943 01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:54,559 Speaker 8: doing a fantastic job. But the radical left lunatics, as 1944 01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:59,960 Speaker 8: they often do, are trying to illegally and collusively boycott Tesla, 1945 01:45:00,439 --> 01:45:04,320 Speaker 8: one of the world's greatest automakers and Elon's quote unquote baby, 1946 01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:07,800 Speaker 8: in order to attack and do harm to Elon and 1947 01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:11,000 Speaker 8: everything he stands for. They tried to do it to 1948 01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:14,120 Speaker 8: me at the twenty twenty four presidential ballot box. But 1949 01:45:14,360 --> 01:45:15,599 Speaker 8: how did that work out? 1950 01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:16,560 Speaker 3: Unquote. 1951 01:45:17,439 --> 01:45:21,439 Speaker 8: There's a lot to impact there, from Trump calling Tesla 1952 01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:25,040 Speaker 8: Elon's baby, despite Elon carrying around his baby at the 1953 01:45:25,080 --> 01:45:29,479 Speaker 8: White House near twenty four to seven, to bizarrely declaring 1954 01:45:29,680 --> 01:45:34,160 Speaker 8: protest boycotts as illegal. Not only has Trump called the 1955 01:45:34,280 --> 01:45:37,599 Speaker 8: Tesla boycott illegal, but during the White House car commercial, 1956 01:45:37,880 --> 01:45:40,720 Speaker 8: he announced that vandalism of Tesla's will be labeled as 1957 01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:45,960 Speaker 8: domestic terrorism, promising that perpetrators will quote unquote go through hell. 1958 01:45:46,760 --> 01:45:50,679 Speaker 8: White House spokesperson Harrison Fields said, quote ongoing and heinous 1959 01:45:50,760 --> 01:45:55,040 Speaker 8: acts of violence against Tesla by radical leftist activists are 1960 01:45:55,160 --> 01:46:00,559 Speaker 8: nothing short of domestic terror unquote. There's certainly has been 1961 01:46:00,640 --> 01:46:04,280 Speaker 8: a surge of violence targeted at Tesla vehicles and dealerships, 1962 01:46:04,720 --> 01:46:08,240 Speaker 8: which I will discuss in detail later this episode, but 1963 01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:10,720 Speaker 8: for the past months, there's also been a wave of 1964 01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:15,680 Speaker 8: nonviolent protests and mass mobilization against Musk and Tesla at 1965 01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:19,400 Speaker 8: dealerships all around the country and even overseas, which the 1966 01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:23,799 Speaker 8: aforementioned boycott is a part of the quote unquote Tesla 1967 01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:28,400 Speaker 8: takedown protests. Call to quote sell your Tesla's, dump your stock, 1968 01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:32,360 Speaker 8: join the picket lines. We're tanking Tesla's stock price to 1969 01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:37,040 Speaker 8: stop Musk unquote. Their website has a map of Tesla 1970 01:46:37,080 --> 01:46:40,320 Speaker 8: dealerships around the world and a list of upcoming protests 1971 01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:44,120 Speaker 8: at various locations, which can be searched through via zip code. 1972 01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:48,879 Speaker 8: There have been reoccurring weekly protests at dealerships every Saturday 1973 01:46:49,080 --> 01:46:52,479 Speaker 8: in cities across the country, with demonstrations at more than 1974 01:46:52,560 --> 01:46:57,599 Speaker 8: fifty Tesla showrooms attracting crowds of between dozens to a thousand, 1975 01:46:57,920 --> 01:47:03,439 Speaker 8: like in tucsona, Arizona. The boycotts and public demonstrations certainly 1976 01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:08,559 Speaker 8: aren't helping Tesla's stock price and international reputation, but they 1977 01:47:08,600 --> 01:47:12,439 Speaker 8: are not the only display of displeasure directed at Elon 1978 01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:16,479 Speaker 8: and Tesla, as others are employing more direct methods to 1979 01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:24,040 Speaker 8: damage the company. Beyond peaceful protests, picketings, short lived dealership occupations, 1980 01:47:24,320 --> 01:47:29,120 Speaker 8: and waiving anti Elon Musk signs outside Tesla stores. Tesla 1981 01:47:29,200 --> 01:47:34,840 Speaker 8: vehicles themselves have become the nation's hottest graffiti mural service. Actually, 1982 01:47:35,080 --> 01:47:38,160 Speaker 8: around the world, people have been using Tesla's to scribble 1983 01:47:38,240 --> 01:47:42,240 Speaker 8: epithets against Elon Musk and Donald Trump. Even some eco 1984 01:47:42,320 --> 01:47:46,200 Speaker 8: conscious owners of Tesla vehicles have defaced their own cars 1985 01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:49,519 Speaker 8: with stickers that read I bought this before he was 1986 01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:52,519 Speaker 8: a Nazi, which, hey, you can also put on your 1987 01:47:52,600 --> 01:47:57,720 Speaker 8: old Kanye West records. Speaking of Kanye West, some individuals 1988 01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:02,680 Speaker 8: have taken to marking Teslaus with a swastika, which at 1989 01:48:02,760 --> 01:48:06,920 Speaker 8: first raised eyebrows and confused some investigators as typically when 1990 01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:10,679 Speaker 8: there's swastika graffiti, it's supposed to be anti Semitic in nature, 1991 01:48:11,320 --> 01:48:15,360 Speaker 8: whereas in this case, based on external factors, this is 1992 01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:18,840 Speaker 8: most likely a public attempt to link Elon Musk and 1993 01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:24,000 Speaker 8: Tesla with Nazism, following Musk's own anti Semitic posts, fall 1994 01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:28,960 Speaker 8: right politics, and the whole salute thing. Stickers and flyers 1995 01:48:29,000 --> 01:48:32,479 Speaker 8: have spread from the UK to San Francisco, reading don't 1996 01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:36,120 Speaker 8: buy a swasti car, but it's not all stickers and 1997 01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:40,080 Speaker 8: graffiti we'll talk about the other Tesla attacks after this 1998 01:48:40,280 --> 01:48:40,760 Speaker 8: ad break. 1999 01:48:50,840 --> 01:48:51,679 Speaker 3: Okay, we're back. 2000 01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:56,439 Speaker 8: One of the most bizarre instances of Tesla vandalism was 2001 01:48:56,479 --> 01:49:01,000 Speaker 8: when forty four wheels were stolen off twelve sold Tesla's 2002 01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:05,760 Speaker 8: in a Texas parking lot on Valentine's Day. Investigators say 2003 01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:08,719 Speaker 8: they don't currently have any leads since the nearby security 2004 01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:12,439 Speaker 8: cameras weren't recording and the Tesla cameras were not active. 2005 01:49:13,439 --> 01:49:16,400 Speaker 8: These Teslas were actually being stored in an Amazon parking 2006 01:49:16,439 --> 01:49:20,360 Speaker 8: lot six miles away from their home dealership. Allegedly, Tesla 2007 01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:23,439 Speaker 8: is contracting with other businesses to store their cars. A 2008 01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:28,280 Speaker 8: midwave of vandalism at Tesla dealerships. On March eleventh, wheels 2009 01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:32,080 Speaker 8: were damaged on multiple vehicles at a Tesla dealership in Dedham, Massachusetts. 2010 01:49:32,840 --> 01:49:38,000 Speaker 8: In Meyers, California, Tesla superchargers keep being sabotaged, with epoxy 2011 01:49:38,280 --> 01:49:42,080 Speaker 8: found in the charging cable and anti elon musk graffiti 2012 01:49:42,400 --> 01:49:47,559 Speaker 8: with chargers marked with swastikas. Seven Tesla charging stations at 2013 01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:50,920 Speaker 8: a shopping center were arsened outside of Boston, Massachusetts, on 2014 01:49:51,040 --> 01:49:55,080 Speaker 8: March third, and on March seventh, Maltov cocktails were thrown 2015 01:49:55,240 --> 01:49:59,040 Speaker 8: at a Tesla charging station in South Carolina with long 2016 01:49:59,200 --> 01:50:03,280 Speaker 8: live Ukraine on the ground in red paint. A twenty 2017 01:50:03,360 --> 01:50:06,719 Speaker 8: four year old man was taken into custody on March thirteenth. 2018 01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:12,280 Speaker 8: But it's not just wheel thefts and supercharger sabotage. Tesla 2019 01:50:12,360 --> 01:50:16,040 Speaker 8: dealerships have been a target for anti musk graffiti, vandalism, 2020 01:50:16,439 --> 01:50:21,200 Speaker 8: and armed attacks. Some commentators have been conflating the picketing 2021 01:50:21,240 --> 01:50:26,400 Speaker 8: protests and graffiti with actual instances of arson and property destruction, 2022 01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:30,360 Speaker 8: people like libs of TikTok labeling simple spray paint as 2023 01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:35,680 Speaker 8: quote unquote trans violence or trans terrorism, which is not 2024 01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:38,559 Speaker 8: to say some people aren't taking a more destructive approach 2025 01:50:38,720 --> 01:50:42,960 Speaker 8: towards their elon musk grievances. Whether that qualifies as terrorism 2026 01:50:43,080 --> 01:50:46,439 Speaker 8: is another issue though. On January twentieth, a man wearing 2027 01:50:46,560 --> 01:50:51,439 Speaker 8: black pulling a wheelie cart approached a Tesla dealership in Salem, Oregon, 2028 01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:55,519 Speaker 8: and threw a Molotov cocktail at a cyber truck. Surveillance 2029 01:50:55,520 --> 01:50:59,040 Speaker 8: footage shows the man pull out ignite and throw three 2030 01:50:59,160 --> 01:51:03,360 Speaker 8: more Molotov cocktails from his rolling cart before realizing an 2031 01:51:03,400 --> 01:51:07,160 Speaker 8: eyewitness is charging their Tesla nearby. The man in black 2032 01:51:07,240 --> 01:51:11,000 Speaker 8: pulls out a suppressor mounted AR style rifle and points 2033 01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:13,879 Speaker 8: it at the witness as they drive away, before continuing 2034 01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:17,120 Speaker 8: to throw more Molotov cocktails at parked vehicles. A rock 2035 01:51:17,280 --> 01:51:19,839 Speaker 8: was used to break the glass of the dealership showroom, 2036 01:51:20,120 --> 01:51:24,200 Speaker 8: and another Molotov cocktail was thrown inside the building. A 2037 01:51:24,320 --> 01:51:27,719 Speaker 8: criminal complaint claims that this incident caused around five hundred 2038 01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:31,679 Speaker 8: thousand dollars in damage to the dealership, including damaging seven 2039 01:51:31,760 --> 01:51:36,479 Speaker 8: Tesla vehicles. A month later, on February nineteenth, the same 2040 01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:40,439 Speaker 8: dealership was hit again, this time with gunshots breaking through 2041 01:51:40,520 --> 01:51:44,519 Speaker 8: windows and hitting vehicles. In early March, a forty one 2042 01:51:44,600 --> 01:51:47,439 Speaker 8: year old man was arrested in connection to both incidents, 2043 01:51:47,880 --> 01:51:51,599 Speaker 8: with court documents claiming fingerprints were identified on recovered glass 2044 01:51:51,720 --> 01:51:55,120 Speaker 8: bottles used for explosive devices and the suspects car was 2045 01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:58,479 Speaker 8: identified in footage captured by a police car parked near 2046 01:51:58,600 --> 01:52:02,799 Speaker 8: the Tesla dealership a bit north of Salem. In Tigered, Oregon, 2047 01:52:03,280 --> 01:52:05,720 Speaker 8: there have been two incidents of gunshots being fired at 2048 01:52:05,720 --> 01:52:09,599 Speaker 8: a testa dealership just this month. A Tigered police press 2049 01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:12,679 Speaker 8: release reads quote for the second time in a week, 2050 01:52:13,000 --> 01:52:16,520 Speaker 8: Tigered police are investigating shots fired at a Tesla dealership 2051 01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:20,519 Speaker 8: Early this morning, March thirteen, twenty twenty five, around four 2052 01:52:20,640 --> 01:52:23,880 Speaker 8: fifteen am, more than a dozen shots were fired at 2053 01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:27,839 Speaker 8: the dealership, causing extensive damage to cars and showroom windows. 2054 01:52:28,120 --> 01:52:28,559 Speaker 3: Unquote. 2055 01:52:29,240 --> 01:52:31,800 Speaker 8: There's also been a series of incidents at a Tesla 2056 01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:36,240 Speaker 8: dealership in northern Colorado. A spree of anti musk graffiti 2057 01:52:36,280 --> 01:52:40,320 Speaker 8: and vandalism started in January, with Molotov cocktail style and 2058 01:52:40,439 --> 01:52:44,320 Speaker 8: scendiary devices found on the scene. On February seventh, police 2059 01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:47,519 Speaker 8: responded to a call about graffiti and possible arson at 2060 01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:51,040 Speaker 8: the dealership. A few days later, a security guard confronted 2061 01:52:51,040 --> 01:52:55,000 Speaker 8: an individual spray painting the front windows of the dealership, 2062 01:52:55,280 --> 01:52:58,800 Speaker 8: and on February twenty fourth, a suspect was arrested at 2063 01:52:58,880 --> 01:53:02,400 Speaker 8: the dealership, a li a, llegedly in possession of bottles 2064 01:53:02,479 --> 01:53:03,360 Speaker 8: and gasoline. 2065 01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:04,639 Speaker 3: She was charged. 2066 01:53:04,720 --> 01:53:09,559 Speaker 8: In late February, another person was arrested allegedly in connection 2067 01:53:09,720 --> 01:53:13,280 Speaker 8: to a similar, yet unrelated incident at the very same 2068 01:53:13,360 --> 01:53:18,120 Speaker 8: dealership in Loveland, Colorado, after molotov cocktail style device was 2069 01:53:18,160 --> 01:53:22,200 Speaker 8: found burning between two Tesla vehicles on March seventh. Rocks 2070 01:53:22,240 --> 01:53:25,719 Speaker 8: were also used to damage both the building and multiple 2071 01:53:25,800 --> 01:53:30,519 Speaker 8: cars at around eleven pm on Sunday, March ninth, four 2072 01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:33,680 Speaker 8: cyber trucks erupted into flames at a Tesla parking lot 2073 01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:38,000 Speaker 8: in Seattle, Washington. On Monday, March seventeenth, two cyber trucks 2074 01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:40,320 Speaker 8: were set on fire at a dealership in Kansas City. 2075 01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:43,400 Speaker 8: Here's how local TV news reported the incident. 2076 01:53:44,800 --> 01:53:47,800 Speaker 11: Around eleven pm, officers were called to a fire at 2077 01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:48,240 Speaker 11: a car. 2078 01:53:48,200 --> 01:53:51,280 Speaker 3: Lot car Hire Dealer shifts in the parking lot. 2079 01:53:51,400 --> 01:53:54,679 Speaker 11: AKCPD officer was close by when he noticed smoke coming 2080 01:53:54,760 --> 01:53:58,440 Speaker 11: from a Tesla cybertruck. The officer used his fire extinguisher 2081 01:53:58,560 --> 01:54:00,719 Speaker 11: to try to put out the flames, but the fire 2082 01:54:00,880 --> 01:54:04,200 Speaker 11: continued to spread. CASEFD was called into help. 2083 01:54:04,439 --> 01:54:06,960 Speaker 12: Our crews got on scene and the fire was in 2084 01:54:07,160 --> 01:54:10,160 Speaker 12: two cyber trucks. It had spread from one to the other. 2085 01:54:11,320 --> 01:54:13,360 Speaker 12: We were able to get water on them. Copey, this 2086 01:54:13,439 --> 01:54:14,800 Speaker 12: amounts for water. Get the fire out. 2087 01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:15,559 Speaker 7: Now. 2088 01:54:15,760 --> 01:54:19,599 Speaker 11: Federal agencies are getting involved. We saw an ATF officer 2089 01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:22,920 Speaker 11: with a bag of evidence. They say this incident follow 2090 01:54:23,120 --> 01:54:27,520 Speaker 11: similar reports from across the country of violence at Tesla dealerships. 2091 01:54:27,680 --> 01:54:29,320 Speaker 9: I mean you're eventually going to get caught right. 2092 01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:33,240 Speaker 11: Reaction to this incident has been mixed with some condemning 2093 01:54:33,320 --> 01:54:35,720 Speaker 11: the crime and others who see it as a former 2094 01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:37,360 Speaker 11: protest towards the automaker. 2095 01:54:37,960 --> 01:54:40,600 Speaker 8: And just a few days ago, on March eighteenth, an 2096 01:54:40,680 --> 01:54:44,760 Speaker 8: individual addressed in all black fired gunshots and through maltov cocktails, 2097 01:54:45,120 --> 01:54:49,440 Speaker 8: damaging five cars at a Tesla service center in Las Vegas. 2098 01:54:50,040 --> 01:54:53,320 Speaker 8: The Las Vegas Review Journal writes that the FBI Joint 2099 01:54:53,480 --> 01:54:57,360 Speaker 8: Terrorism Task Force is investigating the matter. Quote agents arrived 2100 01:54:57,400 --> 01:55:00,360 Speaker 8: at the scene early Tuesday, according to FBI by Agent 2101 01:55:00,440 --> 01:55:04,160 Speaker 8: in Charge Spencer Evans. Evans said that while it was 2102 01:55:04,200 --> 01:55:07,920 Speaker 8: too early to call the attack in active terrorism, it 2103 01:55:08,080 --> 01:55:12,160 Speaker 8: had quote unquote some of the hallmarks and a potential 2104 01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:17,240 Speaker 8: political agenda unquote. Now this particular instant in Las Vegas 2105 01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:19,960 Speaker 8: really got to Elon Musk, who spent the rest of 2106 01:55:19,960 --> 01:55:23,040 Speaker 8: the day complaining on Twitter that Tesla has quote done 2107 01:55:23,120 --> 01:55:28,320 Speaker 8: nothing to deserve these evil attacks unquote. Attacks on Tesla 2108 01:55:28,440 --> 01:55:32,240 Speaker 8: have not been contained to the United States. In early 2109 01:55:32,400 --> 01:55:35,920 Speaker 8: March twelve, Teslas parked outside of a dealership in southern 2110 01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:40,720 Speaker 8: France were set ablaze, and outside Berlin, unknown persons set 2111 01:55:40,800 --> 01:55:44,839 Speaker 8: fire to a high voltage transmission line on a power pylon, 2112 01:55:45,280 --> 01:55:48,800 Speaker 8: cutting power to a massive Tesla manufacturing plant in Germany 2113 01:55:49,120 --> 01:55:52,839 Speaker 8: for multiple days. This follows a series of direct actions 2114 01:55:52,880 --> 01:55:56,200 Speaker 8: and a forest encampment where the Tesla gigafactory seeks to 2115 01:55:56,280 --> 01:55:59,920 Speaker 8: expand by leveling two hundred and fifty acres of forest. 2116 01:56:00,640 --> 01:56:04,080 Speaker 8: The German forest encampment lasted nine months before being successfully 2117 01:56:04,160 --> 01:56:08,040 Speaker 8: raided by police this last November, with police destroying treehouses 2118 01:56:08,160 --> 01:56:12,440 Speaker 8: and trashing tents. After the whole My Heart goes out 2119 01:56:12,520 --> 01:56:16,959 Speaker 8: to You salute and subsequent endorsement of AfD, Musk's reputation 2120 01:56:17,120 --> 01:56:21,600 Speaker 8: in Germany specifically is suffering steep decline. To quote the 2121 01:56:21,720 --> 01:56:25,000 Speaker 8: Washington Post quote, Tesla stock has fallen by more than 2122 01:56:25,120 --> 01:56:28,640 Speaker 8: thirty five percent since Trump's inauguration, and last year the 2123 01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:31,880 Speaker 8: company suffered its first annual sales drop in more than 2124 01:56:31,920 --> 01:56:36,200 Speaker 8: a decade. In Germany, Tesla car sales plummeted by seventy 2125 01:56:36,320 --> 01:56:40,879 Speaker 8: six percent in February compared with a year earlier, according 2126 01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:44,560 Speaker 8: to figures released Wednesday, and some owners have expressed buyer's 2127 01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:47,760 Speaker 8: remorse over owning a car some now see as a 2128 01:56:47,840 --> 01:56:51,600 Speaker 8: symbol of far right politics, a stark departure from the 2129 01:56:51,720 --> 01:56:56,760 Speaker 8: environmental consciousness it once epitomized, and we'll talk more about 2130 01:56:56,840 --> 01:57:01,520 Speaker 8: how these protests are affecting Tesla's international resputation after this 2131 01:57:01,760 --> 01:57:16,120 Speaker 8: ad break. Okay, we're back right. After the November election, 2132 01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:20,280 Speaker 8: Tesla stock surged to a never before seen high of 2133 01:57:20,480 --> 01:57:25,320 Speaker 8: one point five four trillion dollars, but as Musk's direct 2134 01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:28,320 Speaker 8: involvement in the government was ramped up, Tesla has fallen 2135 01:57:28,360 --> 01:57:32,360 Speaker 8: to about seven hundred and seventy seven billion. The massively 2136 01:57:32,440 --> 01:57:36,240 Speaker 8: inflated value of Tesla stock is directly related to the 2137 01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:41,280 Speaker 8: public perception of Elon Musk and Tesla stock greatly determines 2138 01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:44,640 Speaker 8: Musk's own net worth, which is down more than one 2139 01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:48,280 Speaker 8: hundred and forty billion from this past to December peak. 2140 01:57:49,160 --> 01:57:53,240 Speaker 8: When Elon's reputation gets damaged, so does Tesla's and vice versa. 2141 01:57:54,280 --> 01:57:58,720 Speaker 8: Tesla stock has been declining for nine consecutive weeks. JP 2142 01:57:58,880 --> 01:58:02,040 Speaker 8: Morgan analysts recently said that Tesla has lost so much 2143 01:58:02,160 --> 01:58:05,200 Speaker 8: value so quick that there really isn't any comparison. 2144 01:58:05,440 --> 01:58:05,720 Speaker 3: Quote. 2145 01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:08,600 Speaker 8: We struggle to think of anything analogous in the history 2146 01:58:08,640 --> 01:58:11,520 Speaker 8: of the automotive industry in which a brand has lost 2147 01:58:11,600 --> 01:58:16,000 Speaker 8: so much value so quickly unquote, and Forbes writes quote 2148 01:58:16,520 --> 01:58:19,920 Speaker 8: last week, JP Morgan analysts described the recent melting of 2149 01:58:20,040 --> 01:58:23,440 Speaker 8: Tesla's perception, especially in pockets of the world in which 2150 01:58:23,560 --> 01:58:26,800 Speaker 8: Musk inserted himself into right wing politics, such as Germany. 2151 01:58:27,240 --> 01:58:30,080 Speaker 8: About fifty three percent of respondents to a CNN poll 2152 01:58:30,120 --> 01:58:33,440 Speaker 8: published last week said that they hold a negative opinion 2153 01:58:33,520 --> 01:58:36,000 Speaker 8: of Musk, compared to roughly thirty five percent with a 2154 01:58:36,080 --> 01:58:41,400 Speaker 8: positive view and eleven percent with no take unquote. Overseas, 2155 01:58:41,640 --> 01:58:45,200 Speaker 8: Tesla sales in general are way down, even as electric 2156 01:58:45,280 --> 01:58:49,120 Speaker 8: vehicle purchasing is going up. New data from the European 2157 01:58:49,160 --> 01:58:56,880 Speaker 8: Automotive Manufacturers Association show that Tesla registrations in the European Union, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland, 2158 01:58:57,000 --> 01:59:00,360 Speaker 8: and the UK have dropped by forty five percent when 2159 01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:04,360 Speaker 8: you compare January twenty twenty four to January twenty twenty five, 2160 01:59:04,920 --> 01:59:08,960 Speaker 8: and this decline from Tesla comes as overall electric vehicle 2161 01:59:09,000 --> 01:59:13,160 Speaker 8: sales have increased thirty seven percent in the same January 2162 01:59:13,280 --> 01:59:17,200 Speaker 8: twenty four to twenty five head to head comparison. China's 2163 01:59:17,240 --> 01:59:21,280 Speaker 8: own evs are surpassing Tesla in global production and sales 2164 01:59:21,480 --> 01:59:25,839 Speaker 8: in China, which is a huge EV market, and Chinese 2165 01:59:25,920 --> 01:59:30,040 Speaker 8: manufacturer BYD is on track to overtake Tesla in global 2166 01:59:30,120 --> 01:59:34,400 Speaker 8: sales this year, and so if you consider the Tesla 2167 01:59:34,520 --> 01:59:38,040 Speaker 8: protests as a sort of public display of unhappiness with 2168 01:59:38,160 --> 01:59:41,680 Speaker 8: Tesla and Elon Musk, combined with all these other economic 2169 01:59:41,760 --> 01:59:46,800 Speaker 8: factors impacting the automaker, if these trends continue, Musk and 2170 01:59:46,920 --> 01:59:50,520 Speaker 8: Tesla could be in real trouble. After the Las Vegas 2171 01:59:50,560 --> 01:59:53,800 Speaker 8: attack this Tuesday, Musk went onto Fox News to explain 2172 01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:55,400 Speaker 8: the situation as he sees it. 2173 01:59:56,160 --> 02:00:01,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, it turns out when you take away people's you 2174 02:00:01,200 --> 02:00:04,840 Speaker 4: know what, the money they're receiving. Fortunately, they get very 2175 02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:09,080 Speaker 4: upset and they basically want to kill me because I'm 2176 02:00:09,360 --> 02:00:12,920 Speaker 4: stopping their fraud. And they want to hurt Tesla because 2177 02:00:12,920 --> 02:00:18,120 Speaker 4: they're stopping this terrible waste and corruption in the government. 2178 02:00:18,880 --> 02:00:24,120 Speaker 4: And well, I guess they're bad people. Bad people will 2179 02:00:24,160 --> 02:00:24,760 Speaker 4: do bad things. 2180 02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:30,600 Speaker 8: Essentially, Tesla is seen as an extension of Elon, and 2181 02:00:30,800 --> 02:00:33,760 Speaker 8: right now, Elon is seen as an extension of the 2182 02:00:33,840 --> 02:00:37,920 Speaker 8: Trump government, and even if people feel powerless to stop 2183 02:00:37,960 --> 02:00:41,400 Speaker 8: the government, hurting Tesla is seen as a much more 2184 02:00:41,480 --> 02:00:45,160 Speaker 8: achievable goal with ripple effects that reach Elon, Doje and 2185 02:00:45,240 --> 02:00:50,240 Speaker 8: the Trump administration. And compared to protesting the government. Tesla 2186 02:00:50,440 --> 02:00:54,200 Speaker 8: is a soft target, with cars and dealerships all across 2187 02:00:54,240 --> 02:00:57,520 Speaker 8: the country, not justin state capitals or in Washington, d C. 2188 02:00:58,320 --> 02:01:02,400 Speaker 8: Whereas government facilities are to hard targets by both being 2189 02:01:02,520 --> 02:01:07,480 Speaker 8: less accessible and more protected. GP Morgan analysts wrote, quote, 2190 02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:10,760 Speaker 8: mister Musk's work with the Department of Government Efficiency has 2191 02:01:10,880 --> 02:01:14,840 Speaker 8: proven controversial domestically, and while as many members of the 2192 02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:17,600 Speaker 8: political right may be pleased as those on the left 2193 02:01:17,720 --> 02:01:22,680 Speaker 8: are displeased, the effect on Tesla sales seems nevertheless negative. 2194 02:01:23,080 --> 02:01:23,520 Speaker 3: Unquote. 2195 02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:27,080 Speaker 8: Musk is certainly trying to make the best of it 2196 02:01:27,360 --> 02:01:32,440 Speaker 8: by tapping into the previously untapped ev market of mega conservatives, 2197 02:01:33,120 --> 02:01:36,720 Speaker 8: And though the Tesla brand is gaining popularity amongst conservatives, 2198 02:01:37,400 --> 02:01:40,920 Speaker 8: that demographic is just far less likely than liberals to 2199 02:01:41,080 --> 02:01:44,760 Speaker 8: actually switch from a gas to electric car. Still, the 2200 02:01:44,840 --> 02:01:48,160 Speaker 8: President and conservative media have been doing a lot of 2201 02:01:48,400 --> 02:01:52,120 Speaker 8: free Tesla commercials. Last week, Sean Hannity announced on air 2202 02:01:52,240 --> 02:01:53,640 Speaker 8: that he would be buying a Tesla. 2203 02:01:54,120 --> 02:01:55,840 Speaker 1: I don't believe in cancelation. 2204 02:01:55,960 --> 02:01:59,360 Speaker 13: I don't believe in cancel culture, you know, and I 2205 02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:01,400 Speaker 13: know maybe it's not going to make up a difference, 2206 02:02:01,480 --> 02:02:03,800 Speaker 13: but you know what, after I drove my friends Tesla, 2207 02:02:05,240 --> 02:02:08,520 Speaker 13: I went, and I already picked out the one I want. 2208 02:02:08,560 --> 02:02:11,640 Speaker 13: It's called the the what is it called the s plaid? 2209 02:02:12,320 --> 02:02:15,400 Speaker 13: And do you realize this thing? An electric vehicle has 2210 02:02:16,240 --> 02:02:20,120 Speaker 13: one thousand and six horsepower and goes from zero to 2211 02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:23,640 Speaker 13: sixty two in two point zero seconds. And this thing 2212 02:02:24,040 --> 02:02:26,680 Speaker 13: rips and you can go about four hundred miles without 2213 02:02:26,720 --> 02:02:28,880 Speaker 13: a charge. And I don't drive enough to go further 2214 02:02:28,920 --> 02:02:31,840 Speaker 13: than four hundred miles, So I'm good. And maybe it's 2215 02:02:32,000 --> 02:02:34,920 Speaker 13: just a gesture on my part, and I like it. 2216 02:02:35,080 --> 02:02:38,120 Speaker 13: I like new technology, but it's just a way of saying, 2217 02:02:38,320 --> 02:02:40,440 Speaker 13: you know, look what they're doing to this guy. 2218 02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:45,000 Speaker 8: On Friday, March fourteenth, Attorney General Pam Bondi said that 2219 02:02:45,240 --> 02:02:49,440 Speaker 8: she is opening an investigation into the attacks against Tesla. Quote, 2220 02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:52,560 Speaker 8: if you're going to touch a Tesla, go to a dealership, 2221 02:02:52,760 --> 02:02:56,040 Speaker 8: do anything, you better watch out because we're coming after you. 2222 02:02:56,440 --> 02:02:56,919 Speaker 3: Unquote. 2223 02:02:57,840 --> 02:03:02,560 Speaker 8: She released a statement on Tuesday after the Las Vegas arson, writing, quote, 2224 02:03:03,120 --> 02:03:06,520 Speaker 8: the swarm of violent attacks on Tesla property is nothing 2225 02:03:06,680 --> 02:03:12,680 Speaker 8: short of domestic terrorism unquote. Musk just can't seem to 2226 02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:17,560 Speaker 8: understand that tons of regular people really hate him now 2227 02:03:18,360 --> 02:03:22,760 Speaker 8: and instead has to invent some grand conspiracy against him. 2228 02:03:23,440 --> 02:03:25,440 Speaker 3: Here's how he explained it on Fox News. 2229 02:03:26,360 --> 02:03:28,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's really come as quite a shock 2230 02:03:28,600 --> 02:03:32,680 Speaker 4: to me that there's this level of really hatred and 2231 02:03:32,920 --> 02:03:38,520 Speaker 4: violence from the left. I thought the left of the 2232 02:03:38,920 --> 02:03:41,560 Speaker 4: Democrats were supposed to be the party of empathy, the 2233 02:03:41,680 --> 02:03:45,120 Speaker 4: party of caring, and yet they're burning down cars, They're 2234 02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:51,240 Speaker 4: fire bombing dealerships, they're firing bullets into dealerships, They're just 2235 02:03:51,520 --> 02:03:55,040 Speaker 4: you know, smashing up Tesla's. Tesla is a peaceful company. 2236 02:03:55,080 --> 02:03:58,400 Speaker 4: We've never done anything hopeful. I've never done anything hawful. 2237 02:03:58,400 --> 02:03:59,520 Speaker 4: I've only done productive things. 2238 02:04:00,120 --> 02:04:02,360 Speaker 3: So I think we just have. 2239 02:04:03,880 --> 02:04:05,800 Speaker 6: A deranged it. 2240 02:04:06,240 --> 02:04:07,960 Speaker 4: There's some kind of mental illness thing going on here, 2241 02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:09,280 Speaker 4: because this doesn't make any sense. 2242 02:04:11,120 --> 02:04:13,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there are larger forces at work as well. 2243 02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:15,640 Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know who's funding it and who's coordinating, 2244 02:04:15,720 --> 02:04:18,760 Speaker 4: because this is crazy. I've never seen anything like this. 2245 02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:23,600 Speaker 8: On X the Everything app. Musk is much more open 2246 02:04:23,680 --> 02:04:28,640 Speaker 8: about who he suspects are these larger forces. Musk has 2247 02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:34,280 Speaker 8: spread claims that quote unquote multiple Democrat NGOs are coordinating 2248 02:04:34,400 --> 02:04:39,400 Speaker 8: quote attacks on Tesla dealerships, staff, and vehicles. Last night, 2249 02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:42,320 Speaker 8: a number of cyber trucks were torched in Seattle. Democrats 2250 02:04:42,360 --> 02:04:45,280 Speaker 8: are becoming increasingly more desperate and violent. 2251 02:04:45,600 --> 02:04:46,040 Speaker 3: Unquote. 2252 02:04:46,920 --> 02:04:50,960 Speaker 8: People in Musk's replies posted about how protesters are being 2253 02:04:51,040 --> 02:04:55,600 Speaker 8: paid by quote Democrat fundraising platform Act Blue, which is 2254 02:04:55,680 --> 02:04:56,800 Speaker 8: funded by Soros. 2255 02:04:57,000 --> 02:04:57,440 Speaker 3: Unquote. 2256 02:04:58,240 --> 02:05:01,680 Speaker 8: Act Blue seems to be the rights new favorite conspiracy 2257 02:05:01,760 --> 02:05:05,920 Speaker 8: topic from claiming that you said was illegally laundering money 2258 02:05:05,960 --> 02:05:09,400 Speaker 8: to Democrats through Act Blue, and now that Act Blue 2259 02:05:09,440 --> 02:05:13,400 Speaker 8: itself has the ability to funnel money to activist groups. 2260 02:05:14,320 --> 02:05:17,960 Speaker 8: Act Blue doesn't give away money or directly fund anything. 2261 02:05:18,360 --> 02:05:22,400 Speaker 8: It's a donation based platform for registered organizations. This is 2262 02:05:22,520 --> 02:05:24,680 Speaker 8: like saying go fundme paid. 2263 02:05:24,520 --> 02:05:25,680 Speaker 3: For your top surgery. 2264 02:05:26,520 --> 02:05:31,480 Speaker 8: No people donated on a fundraising platform. But nevertheless, this 2265 02:05:31,680 --> 02:05:35,440 Speaker 8: claim is going gangbusters on X the Everything app and 2266 02:05:35,640 --> 02:05:40,000 Speaker 8: being boosted by Musk and his associates. A popular right 2267 02:05:40,080 --> 02:05:45,280 Speaker 8: wing politics account on X called insurrection Barbie posted that quote. 2268 02:05:45,640 --> 02:05:48,280 Speaker 8: Attacks on the Tesla dealerships, which have been linked to 2269 02:05:48,360 --> 02:05:53,320 Speaker 8: the Indivisible Project, a left of Stalin ngo that organizes 2270 02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:57,400 Speaker 8: street protests for the Democratic Party with shady prepaid debit 2271 02:05:57,480 --> 02:06:01,960 Speaker 8: cards that they run through Act Blue, are committing economic 2272 02:06:02,240 --> 02:06:05,960 Speaker 8: terrorism meant to Tank Tesla's stock and drive a wedge 2273 02:06:06,040 --> 02:06:07,400 Speaker 8: between Musk and Trump. 2274 02:06:07,920 --> 02:06:08,400 Speaker 3: Unquote. 2275 02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:15,520 Speaker 8: Elon himself has claimed that a mysterious investigation quote unquote 2276 02:06:16,480 --> 02:06:20,320 Speaker 8: has found quote five Act Blue funded groups responsible for 2277 02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:26,520 Speaker 8: the Tesla protests, Troublemakers, Disruption Project, Rise and Resist, Indivisible Project, 2278 02:06:26,840 --> 02:06:32,800 Speaker 8: and Democratic Socialists of America. Act Blue funders include George Soros, 2279 02:06:33,120 --> 02:06:38,360 Speaker 8: Reed Hoffman, Herbert Sandler, Patricia Bowman, and Leah Hunt Hendrix. 2280 02:06:38,880 --> 02:06:42,200 Speaker 8: If you know anything about this, please post in the replies. 2281 02:06:42,680 --> 02:06:49,080 Speaker 8: Thanks Elon unquote. Now, the main organizations behind the Tesla 2282 02:06:49,240 --> 02:06:53,440 Speaker 8: takedown protests, two activist groups called the Troublemakers and the 2283 02:06:53,600 --> 02:06:58,400 Speaker 8: Disruption Project, don't even fundraise on Act Blue, that they 2284 02:06:58,440 --> 02:07:02,400 Speaker 8: have no affiliation, but that hasn't stopped Elon from targeting 2285 02:07:02,440 --> 02:07:06,280 Speaker 8: specific activists and accusing them of committing crimes simply for 2286 02:07:06,600 --> 02:07:11,640 Speaker 8: organizing pickets outside stores, meanwhile invoking the old antisemitic George 2287 02:07:11,720 --> 02:07:16,720 Speaker 8: Soros conspiracy as Elon himself has funneled hundreds of millions 2288 02:07:16,760 --> 02:07:19,600 Speaker 8: of dollars to right wing politicians this past year, and 2289 02:07:19,680 --> 02:07:23,160 Speaker 8: has threatened to primary any Republican Congressman who doesn't cave 2290 02:07:23,360 --> 02:07:27,040 Speaker 8: on Trump's agenda. So anyway, that is what's happening with 2291 02:07:27,520 --> 02:07:32,800 Speaker 8: Tesla derangement syndrome all across the country and even the world. 2292 02:07:34,000 --> 02:07:36,760 Speaker 8: Every day it feels like we are getting closer and 2293 02:07:37,040 --> 02:07:39,000 Speaker 8: closer to the cool zone. 2294 02:07:39,640 --> 02:08:03,800 Speaker 3: See you on the other side, Oh Lord, that the 2295 02:08:03,880 --> 02:08:08,040 Speaker 3: coming has begun, The coming has begun. This is that 2296 02:08:08,240 --> 02:08:09,000 Speaker 3: could happen here. 2297 02:08:09,280 --> 02:08:13,400 Speaker 8: Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the 2298 02:08:13,440 --> 02:08:15,680 Speaker 8: White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. 2299 02:08:15,800 --> 02:08:18,400 Speaker 8: I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, 2300 02:08:18,480 --> 02:08:19,360 Speaker 8: and Robert Evans. 2301 02:08:19,640 --> 02:08:23,640 Speaker 2: Yes, and as James Stout just noted, the coming has begun, 2302 02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:26,120 Speaker 2: so we're going to also begin. 2303 02:08:27,040 --> 02:08:29,480 Speaker 8: This episode we are covering the week of March twelve 2304 02:08:29,520 --> 02:08:32,800 Speaker 8: to March nineteen. Obviously, the most important piece of news 2305 02:08:32,880 --> 02:08:39,080 Speaker 8: right now is that Minnesota Republican state Senator Justin aich Lord, 2306 02:08:39,520 --> 02:08:41,960 Speaker 8: who just last week sponsored or co sponsored a bill 2307 02:08:42,080 --> 02:08:45,280 Speaker 8: that that legally recognizes Trump derangement syndrome as a mental 2308 02:08:45,280 --> 02:08:49,280 Speaker 8: illness which disqualifies you from possessing firearms, was literally that 2309 02:08:49,440 --> 02:08:53,040 Speaker 8: same day rested in a sting operation for trying to 2310 02:08:53,200 --> 02:08:55,520 Speaker 8: meet up with and have sex with a minor. 2311 02:08:57,080 --> 02:09:01,320 Speaker 3: Like literally he was like to have been texting this. 2312 02:09:01,800 --> 02:09:03,760 Speaker 2: He thought what he thought was a kid, but what 2313 02:09:03,920 --> 02:09:08,040 Speaker 2: was really a federal agent while he was finalizing the language. 2314 02:09:08,360 --> 02:09:14,320 Speaker 8: It's it's it's truly phenomenal. Pedal club theory never fails. Anyway, 2315 02:09:14,440 --> 02:09:18,240 Speaker 8: Let's move on to the actual important stress, which is 2316 02:09:18,360 --> 02:09:19,000 Speaker 8: mostly bad. 2317 02:09:19,120 --> 02:09:20,960 Speaker 3: This has been a pretty rough week. Yeah, it's been 2318 02:09:20,960 --> 02:09:21,680 Speaker 3: a pretty rough week. 2319 02:09:21,680 --> 02:09:22,280 Speaker 6: It sucked. 2320 02:09:22,400 --> 02:09:26,840 Speaker 3: Yes, So I guess I'll turn to James Stout me, Hi, everyone, hija, 2321 02:09:26,960 --> 02:09:31,560 Speaker 3: Well the day you're listening, it's it's neuro's neurosis bab yeah, yeah, 2322 02:09:31,600 --> 02:09:32,440 Speaker 3: Burdish listeners. 2323 02:09:32,800 --> 02:09:33,040 Speaker 6: See. 2324 02:09:33,560 --> 02:09:36,080 Speaker 3: So I want to talk today about rendition, and this 2325 02:09:36,120 --> 02:09:39,080 Speaker 3: has been reported his deportation. Like, I guess it technically 2326 02:09:39,160 --> 02:09:42,040 Speaker 3: falls within deportation. But what's happening here is that the 2327 02:09:42,280 --> 02:09:46,560 Speaker 3: Trump administration has begun renditioning people who it accuses of 2328 02:09:46,640 --> 02:09:49,800 Speaker 3: being members of trender Ragua, which is a Venezuelan gang 2329 02:09:50,120 --> 02:09:54,160 Speaker 3: and the La Mara Sabbath the MS thirteen as they're 2330 02:09:54,160 --> 02:09:54,480 Speaker 3: known here. 2331 02:09:54,560 --> 02:09:54,680 Speaker 6: Right. 2332 02:09:55,280 --> 02:09:59,360 Speaker 3: It has done this based on something called the Alien 2333 02:09:59,600 --> 02:10:02,440 Speaker 3: Enemy to Act. The way it's able to use the 2334 02:10:02,520 --> 02:10:05,560 Speaker 3: Alien Enemies Act is that it has designated these gangs 2335 02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:10,480 Speaker 3: as foreign terrorist organizations rather than as like international crime organizations, 2336 02:10:11,080 --> 02:10:13,680 Speaker 3: and it's usually Alien Enemies Act to expedite their removal. 2337 02:10:13,920 --> 02:10:16,879 Speaker 3: We spoke about the Alien Enemies Act in a podcast 2338 02:10:16,960 --> 02:10:21,040 Speaker 3: that I made last November with Robin Sophe about parts 2339 02:10:21,040 --> 02:10:22,920 Speaker 3: of the Lord that Trump administration might use for its 2340 02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:27,520 Speaker 3: mass deportation agenda. They're now using this one, and very briefly, 2341 02:10:27,600 --> 02:10:29,200 Speaker 3: it's a two hundred and twenty six year old piece 2342 02:10:29,200 --> 02:10:31,560 Speaker 3: of legislation that hasn't been used since World War Two, 2343 02:10:32,000 --> 02:10:34,640 Speaker 3: when it was used to justifying tournament camps, which were 2344 02:10:34,680 --> 02:10:39,360 Speaker 3: a bad thing. These people aren't being deported back to Venezuela, right. 2345 02:10:39,400 --> 02:10:42,480 Speaker 3: The US doesn't have relations with the Moduro regime, although 2346 02:10:42,920 --> 02:10:46,040 Speaker 3: it has deported people back to Venezuela on an airline 2347 02:10:46,080 --> 02:10:49,000 Speaker 3: that was previously sanctioned, which could now land in the 2348 02:10:49,080 --> 02:10:52,640 Speaker 3: US for the express purpose of deportations, which is great. Instead, 2349 02:10:52,680 --> 02:10:55,640 Speaker 3: they're being sent to Al Salvador. They're being sent there 2350 02:10:55,760 --> 02:10:59,400 Speaker 3: with no trial or hearing or seemingly right to appeal. 2351 02:11:00,040 --> 02:11:02,200 Speaker 3: When they get to El Salvador, they've been parade in 2352 02:11:02,280 --> 02:11:05,960 Speaker 3: front of video cameras. Very degrading treatment. Right. Their hair 2353 02:11:06,080 --> 02:11:08,640 Speaker 3: is being shaped, sort of being walked with their heads 2354 02:11:08,720 --> 02:11:12,000 Speaker 3: forced down, they're being filmed on their knees while all 2355 02:11:12,080 --> 02:11:15,480 Speaker 3: their hair and facial hair is removed, and then they're 2356 02:11:15,520 --> 02:11:18,600 Speaker 3: being sent to second If you're not familiar with this, 2357 02:11:19,280 --> 02:11:22,200 Speaker 3: it was the subject of State Department human rights reports 2358 02:11:22,400 --> 02:11:25,400 Speaker 3: very recently, and now we are sending people there. It's 2359 02:11:25,400 --> 02:11:28,600 Speaker 3: a mega prison in El Salvador. It roughly translates terrorism 2360 02:11:28,720 --> 02:11:32,880 Speaker 3: confinement or terrorism detention center. I guess it's been very 2361 02:11:32,960 --> 02:11:36,080 Speaker 3: recently built by Bokel who's the president of El Salvador, 2362 02:11:36,160 --> 02:11:40,040 Speaker 3: and it's part of his Supermanodoro like Iron Fist. Super 2363 02:11:40,080 --> 02:11:43,000 Speaker 3: Iron Fist would be the way you were translated. I guess. 2364 02:11:43,400 --> 02:11:47,080 Speaker 3: It is routinely criticized by human rights organizations for the 2365 02:11:47,120 --> 02:11:50,120 Speaker 3: disgusting conditions of people are kept in right, the United 2366 02:11:50,160 --> 02:11:54,800 Speaker 3: States government intended to send three hundred people there, and 2367 02:11:55,120 --> 02:11:58,240 Speaker 3: in return it paid six million dollars to El Salvador 2368 02:11:58,320 --> 02:12:01,000 Speaker 3: for the cost of their detention. At the time that 2369 02:12:01,120 --> 02:12:03,680 Speaker 3: I wrote this, two hundred and thirty eight people who 2370 02:12:03,720 --> 02:12:05,880 Speaker 3: were accused of being part of trendell our work was 2371 02:12:05,920 --> 02:12:08,920 Speaker 3: sent there, and then twenty three who accused of being 2372 02:12:08,960 --> 02:12:15,200 Speaker 3: part of MS thirty. They were removed on flights the trumpdministrations, 2373 02:12:15,280 --> 02:12:17,800 Speaker 3: claiming they were removed before a district court judge in 2374 02:12:17,840 --> 02:12:21,040 Speaker 3: DC blocked their removals. But there are a series of 2375 02:12:21,120 --> 02:12:22,960 Speaker 3: timelines that you can see online, some of which will 2376 02:12:22,960 --> 02:12:24,520 Speaker 3: be linked in the source of this episode, would suggest 2377 02:12:24,520 --> 02:12:28,200 Speaker 3: that they were in the air when he blocked their removals. Nonetheless, 2378 02:12:28,960 --> 02:12:32,400 Speaker 3: the judge very explicitly said, I'm quoting here. Any plane 2379 02:12:32,440 --> 02:12:34,360 Speaker 3: containing these folks that is going to take off or 2380 02:12:34,440 --> 02:12:35,800 Speaker 3: is in the air needs to be returned to the 2381 02:12:35,920 --> 02:12:38,640 Speaker 3: United States. This is something that you need to make 2382 02:12:38,680 --> 02:12:41,480 Speaker 3: sure is complied with immediately. This did not happen. The 2383 02:12:41,560 --> 02:12:45,320 Speaker 3: planes continued traveling to Ossabadoid, stopped in Honduras, and then 2384 02:12:45,680 --> 02:12:48,560 Speaker 3: these people were paraded before the cameras, right, and they're 2385 02:12:48,600 --> 02:12:51,240 Speaker 3: now presumably being detained in this prison, which doesn't let 2386 02:12:51,280 --> 02:12:55,320 Speaker 3: basic s ender the human rights. The government has given 2387 02:12:55,440 --> 02:13:00,240 Speaker 3: various reasons for ignoring this ruling from the judge. Press 2388 02:13:00,240 --> 02:13:02,520 Speaker 3: Sextuary Caroline leave It claimed that there was quote no 2389 02:13:02,600 --> 02:13:06,600 Speaker 3: lawful basis for it. Obviously that the process here is, 2390 02:13:06,640 --> 02:13:08,800 Speaker 3: if you don't believe then judicial ruling is correct, you 2391 02:13:09,160 --> 02:13:11,400 Speaker 3: stop doing the thing and appeal it. You don't just 2392 02:13:11,520 --> 02:13:13,760 Speaker 3: keep doing the thing and say like, oh, well, I 2393 02:13:13,800 --> 02:13:16,680 Speaker 3: don't believe you. It's not true. Obviously, this only matters 2394 02:13:16,720 --> 02:13:18,919 Speaker 3: in so far as the judge can enforce his decision. 2395 02:13:19,320 --> 02:13:21,360 Speaker 3: They also claimed in court that the verbal order that 2396 02:13:21,440 --> 02:13:23,400 Speaker 3: the judge gave is not the same as a written one, 2397 02:13:24,000 --> 02:13:26,760 Speaker 3: and they claim that because the flights where every international waters, 2398 02:13:26,960 --> 02:13:29,520 Speaker 3: this was a foreign policy matter, and that the judge 2399 02:13:29,520 --> 02:13:32,080 Speaker 3: couldn't intervene in a foreign policy matter. That's a power 2400 02:13:32,120 --> 02:13:33,360 Speaker 3: of this reserve to the executive. 2401 02:13:34,040 --> 02:13:36,520 Speaker 8: I mean, like all of these justifications are really like 2402 02:13:36,680 --> 02:13:39,400 Speaker 8: freaky in terms of constitutional power and stuff. 2403 02:13:39,520 --> 02:13:41,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is there are fringes on the flag, so 2404 02:13:41,880 --> 02:13:43,480 Speaker 3: Admiralty Court apply is kind of done. 2405 02:13:43,560 --> 02:13:46,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, But specifically that last one, being like it doesn't 2406 02:13:47,080 --> 02:13:51,640 Speaker 8: count because we're over international waters is like, yeah, super 2407 02:13:51,800 --> 02:13:54,400 Speaker 8: frightening in terms of like human rights abuse. 2408 02:13:54,440 --> 02:13:57,280 Speaker 2: This that's not the way anything works, especially since it 2409 02:13:57,440 --> 02:13:58,720 Speaker 2: was like a US airline. 2410 02:13:59,040 --> 02:14:02,560 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and in terms of yeah, you basically don't 2411 02:14:02,560 --> 02:14:06,360 Speaker 3: have human rights because like it's they're forcing a loophole 2412 02:14:06,400 --> 02:14:08,680 Speaker 3: that doesn't exist in the same way that George W. 2413 02:14:08,840 --> 02:14:11,880 Speaker 3: Bush did in the in the early two thousands with 2414 02:14:11,920 --> 02:14:14,480 Speaker 3: Guantanamo Bay. He was never stopped from doing it. 2415 02:14:14,680 --> 02:14:14,920 Speaker 6: Yeah. 2416 02:14:15,320 --> 02:14:17,400 Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I I honestly I think I think the 2417 02:14:17,480 --> 02:14:20,560 Speaker 7: thing that this is closer to is the other things. 2418 02:14:20,640 --> 02:14:22,680 Speaker 7: So I think Guantanamo Bay is the one that gets remembered. 2419 02:14:22,760 --> 02:14:25,080 Speaker 7: But the other part of the CIA torture program was 2420 02:14:25,760 --> 02:14:32,200 Speaker 7: the US would just ship people off to places like Syria. Yeah, yeah, Syria. 2421 02:14:32,280 --> 02:14:37,920 Speaker 7: Egypt is Syria and the egypt biggest Yeah maybe yeah, yeah, 2422 02:14:37,960 --> 02:14:38,640 Speaker 7: we did need you to. 2423 02:14:39,440 --> 02:14:43,000 Speaker 2: Syria's torture program had largely been cobbled together by a 2424 02:14:43,080 --> 02:14:44,080 Speaker 2: former SS guy. 2425 02:14:44,200 --> 02:14:45,040 Speaker 3: It's all, It's very good. 2426 02:14:45,480 --> 02:14:45,680 Speaker 6: Yeah. 2427 02:14:45,760 --> 02:14:49,200 Speaker 7: I also want to read a line from the legal 2428 02:14:49,320 --> 02:14:51,600 Speaker 7: argument that Trump's lawyers made before this judge, because it 2429 02:14:51,720 --> 02:14:56,160 Speaker 7: is fucking horrifying. Quote, enemy aliens are not entitled to 2430 02:14:56,200 --> 02:14:59,240 Speaker 7: seek any relief or protection in the country that doesign 2431 02:14:59,240 --> 02:15:02,120 Speaker 7: get the enemy is absent dispensation by the president c 2432 02:15:02,360 --> 02:15:06,400 Speaker 7: Citizens Protection League. And then in parentheses noting common law 2433 02:15:06,520 --> 02:15:10,000 Speaker 7: ruling that alien enemies have no rights, no privileges unless 2434 02:15:10,000 --> 02:15:12,960 Speaker 7: by the king's special favor. So every single part that 2435 02:15:13,080 --> 02:15:15,120 Speaker 7: is horrifying. Also horrifying is the fact that if you 2436 02:15:15,160 --> 02:15:17,600 Speaker 7: actually look up the common lawal citation, the next words 2437 02:15:17,640 --> 02:15:19,960 Speaker 7: after king special favor is in a time of war. 2438 02:15:20,480 --> 02:15:24,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, that's the idea here, right, that we're 2439 02:15:24,480 --> 02:15:27,520 Speaker 3: a war with these foreign terrorist organizations and these are 2440 02:15:27,920 --> 02:15:30,600 Speaker 3: essentially like spies or yeah, and this is this is 2441 02:15:30,640 --> 02:15:30,840 Speaker 3: this thing. 2442 02:15:30,920 --> 02:15:32,400 Speaker 7: We're like, well, no, obviously we're not like that. We 2443 02:15:32,400 --> 02:15:34,440 Speaker 7: don't have there's no state of war, Like, no state 2444 02:15:34,440 --> 02:15:35,720 Speaker 7: of wars have ever been declared. But because of the 2445 02:15:35,720 --> 02:15:38,440 Speaker 7: way the War on Terror sort of functioned, they're they're 2446 02:15:38,520 --> 02:15:40,240 Speaker 7: they're trying to claim these things. And then again like 2447 02:15:40,280 --> 02:15:42,120 Speaker 7: the fact that they're saying that anyone they declare an 2448 02:15:42,160 --> 02:15:47,000 Speaker 7: alien has literally no protections at all in the country, 2449 02:15:47,160 --> 02:15:48,800 Speaker 7: no rights at all can be anything can be done 2450 02:15:48,840 --> 02:15:51,960 Speaker 7: to them. It's unless specifically the president decides that they 2451 02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:58,160 Speaker 7: have rights. Is unbelievably hideous. It is pure, pure state 2452 02:15:58,200 --> 02:16:02,080 Speaker 7: of exception, the total fac shit. It's fucking horrifying. 2453 02:16:03,480 --> 02:16:06,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's entirely unconstitutional, right, Like, you don't have 2454 02:16:06,640 --> 02:16:09,040 Speaker 3: to be a radically left person to believe that humans 2455 02:16:09,120 --> 02:16:12,600 Speaker 3: have rights. Yeah, I want to really briefly, like one 2456 02:16:12,640 --> 02:16:15,480 Speaker 3: of the criteria that was used here so so ice criteria, 2457 02:16:15,520 --> 02:16:17,400 Speaker 3: so they have to have two identifying signs to be 2458 02:16:17,480 --> 02:16:20,560 Speaker 3: classified as a gang member. One of them that has 2459 02:16:20,600 --> 02:16:23,400 Speaker 3: been used very heavily. Here is tattoos. We know from 2460 02:16:23,600 --> 02:16:27,960 Speaker 3: court filings that one man, Barrios, he has a football tattoo, right, 2461 02:16:28,000 --> 02:16:29,480 Speaker 3: like a tattoo of a football with a crown on 2462 02:16:29,520 --> 02:16:32,680 Speaker 3: it is this diocelic god underneath it was supposed to 2463 02:16:32,680 --> 02:16:34,640 Speaker 3: be I guess similar like a play on the logo 2464 02:16:34,680 --> 02:16:38,080 Speaker 3: of Al Madrid. But they've used this to claim that 2465 02:16:38,160 --> 02:16:41,040 Speaker 3: it's evidence he's a member of a gang. Gangs like 2466 02:16:41,360 --> 02:16:44,840 Speaker 3: tender Agua don't have like gang signed tattoos, right, Yeah, 2467 02:16:44,959 --> 02:16:47,360 Speaker 3: but they're smarter than that, Like they've seen what's happened 2468 02:16:47,400 --> 02:16:51,480 Speaker 3: to gangs like MS thirteen because who do. Like Madras, 2469 02:16:51,800 --> 02:16:53,960 Speaker 3: Central American gangs have have had these things like as 2470 02:16:54,000 --> 02:16:55,680 Speaker 3: part of their tradition for a while, and they've been 2471 02:16:55,760 --> 02:16:59,760 Speaker 3: used heavily by law enforcement. I remember Christmas Eve twenty 2472 02:16:59,760 --> 02:17:01,960 Speaker 3: twenty three. I was in the desert with my friends 2473 02:17:02,400 --> 02:17:04,400 Speaker 3: and a large number of my joints across that day. 2474 02:17:05,120 --> 02:17:07,320 Speaker 3: I remember meeting a Venezuela man who was like covered 2475 02:17:07,360 --> 02:17:10,400 Speaker 3: in tattoos. They had to toe very heavy tattooed. That 2476 02:17:10,520 --> 02:17:13,640 Speaker 3: dude spent the entire day building a shelter for someone 2477 02:17:13,680 --> 02:17:16,840 Speaker 3: else's sick kid and then slept by himself in the 2478 02:17:17,080 --> 02:17:20,600 Speaker 3: freezing cold outside, and like, I know, I've been thinking 2479 02:17:20,640 --> 02:17:23,720 Speaker 3: about that guy a lot because under this ruling, right, 2480 02:17:23,800 --> 02:17:25,920 Speaker 3: like just his appearance of having tattoos would have him 2481 02:17:26,480 --> 02:17:31,680 Speaker 3: classified as a terrorist. And like when thousands of Americans 2482 02:17:31,760 --> 02:17:34,160 Speaker 3: living within an hour of that place did nothing, and 2483 02:17:34,280 --> 02:17:36,480 Speaker 3: that little girl who was sick had nowhere to sleep, 2484 02:17:36,560 --> 02:17:38,320 Speaker 3: like this guy took it upon himself to help, even 2485 02:17:38,360 --> 02:17:43,080 Speaker 3: when he himself was in a difficult place, And it 2486 02:17:43,280 --> 02:17:45,600 Speaker 3: just really makes me kind of sick. I think that 2487 02:17:45,680 --> 02:17:46,640 Speaker 3: this is where we're at now. 2488 02:17:47,040 --> 02:17:51,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean it's it's it's a damning indictment 2489 02:17:51,879 --> 02:17:56,080 Speaker 2: of the character of people who are the voter base 2490 02:17:56,160 --> 02:17:58,840 Speaker 2: in this coatttery, And it's a damning indictment of like 2491 02:17:59,240 --> 02:18:03,920 Speaker 2: what particularly liberals in the left failed to stop because 2492 02:18:03,959 --> 02:18:05,760 Speaker 2: this was a this was a train that we could 2493 02:18:05,800 --> 02:18:08,879 Speaker 2: see coming for a while, like the propaganda campaign against 2494 02:18:08,920 --> 02:18:13,240 Speaker 2: these folks, yeah, and a necessary ingredient, and the Republicans 2495 02:18:13,320 --> 02:18:18,760 Speaker 2: getting their way on this was democratic politicians, and you know, 2496 02:18:18,959 --> 02:18:22,520 Speaker 2: to be entirely fair, quite a few prominent thought leaders 2497 02:18:22,600 --> 02:18:26,800 Speaker 2: on the left absolutely folding and not just not just 2498 02:18:26,959 --> 02:18:30,720 Speaker 2: failing to like counterpoint this stuff, but like diving in 2499 02:18:30,879 --> 02:18:34,000 Speaker 2: on it because they either had prejudice of their own 2500 02:18:34,120 --> 02:18:36,200 Speaker 2: or they saw it as like an opportunity. But like, 2501 02:18:36,360 --> 02:18:41,760 Speaker 2: you know, the whole nativist deal is just disgusting. Yeah, yeah, 2502 02:18:41,840 --> 02:18:43,560 Speaker 2: I don't know what else to say. I can't just 2503 02:18:43,800 --> 02:18:44,680 Speaker 2: keep yelling about it. 2504 02:18:45,000 --> 02:18:47,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not all a slippery slope. And I'm not 2505 02:18:47,080 --> 02:18:48,680 Speaker 3: saying that they're both as bad as each other, because 2506 02:18:48,720 --> 02:18:51,480 Speaker 3: what's happening now is much worse than anything that happened previously. 2507 02:18:51,640 --> 02:18:54,800 Speaker 3: But like, yes, when we could detain people, including little 2508 02:18:54,920 --> 02:18:57,720 Speaker 3: children outside and we could leave them there in the snow, 2509 02:18:57,959 --> 02:19:01,040 Speaker 3: and like little babies could be shift ring, and I 2510 02:19:01,080 --> 02:19:03,959 Speaker 3: could be giving away my own coat almost every day 2511 02:19:04,000 --> 02:19:05,680 Speaker 3: I was out there because I was worried someone's baby 2512 02:19:05,840 --> 02:19:09,040 Speaker 3: was going to die of hypothermia, we kind of conceded 2513 02:19:09,120 --> 02:19:12,039 Speaker 3: that these people didn't have rights, right and the Democratic 2514 02:19:12,080 --> 02:19:13,920 Speaker 3: Party let that happen, and people on the left let 2515 02:19:13,959 --> 02:19:17,920 Speaker 3: that happen. And that is a stepping stone on the 2516 02:19:18,000 --> 02:19:19,200 Speaker 3: pathway to where we're at now. 2517 02:19:19,840 --> 02:19:23,600 Speaker 2: Yep, just as like with all the shit that's that's 2518 02:19:24,640 --> 02:19:27,400 Speaker 2: happening right now, like in terms of like the disappearing 2519 02:19:27,480 --> 02:19:30,400 Speaker 2: of political opponents and whatnot, Like you can draw a 2520 02:19:30,520 --> 02:19:33,800 Speaker 2: line from that from like the Patriot Act, you know, 2521 02:19:33,920 --> 02:19:38,600 Speaker 2: from Obama targeting a US citizen in I think Afghanistan. Like, 2522 02:19:38,680 --> 02:19:41,800 Speaker 2: there's all of these are like obviously things were not 2523 02:19:41,920 --> 02:19:46,000 Speaker 2: nearly as bad as they are right now in those administrations, 2524 02:19:46,080 --> 02:19:48,720 Speaker 2: but like they're not unrelated. You know, this kind of 2525 02:19:49,000 --> 02:19:52,800 Speaker 2: unitary executive theory is a through line through the last 2526 02:19:52,840 --> 02:19:56,360 Speaker 2: several administrations, and if anyone had pushed back prior to 2527 02:19:56,480 --> 02:19:58,320 Speaker 2: this point, Trump wouldn't be able to do a. 2528 02:19:58,360 --> 02:20:00,240 Speaker 6: Lot of what he's doing. Yep. 2529 02:20:01,240 --> 02:20:04,600 Speaker 3: What we are doing is pivoting to ads. Yeah, right now. 2530 02:20:17,160 --> 02:20:22,480 Speaker 2: We're back and we're talking Ukraine Ukraine. I'm sorry that 2531 02:20:22,760 --> 02:20:26,200 Speaker 2: I shouldn't Ukraine if you want to, Yeah, I don't 2532 02:20:26,240 --> 02:20:29,400 Speaker 2: know why I did anyway. So, if you've been kind 2533 02:20:29,440 --> 02:20:32,720 Speaker 2: of paying attention over the last month or so, we've 2534 02:20:32,760 --> 02:20:38,360 Speaker 2: had a little odyssey in terms of US Russia Ukraine relations, 2535 02:20:38,720 --> 02:20:41,720 Speaker 2: and the gist of it is that everybody claims to 2536 02:20:41,840 --> 02:20:43,119 Speaker 2: want an end to the fighting. 2537 02:20:43,400 --> 02:20:44,920 Speaker 3: You know, at least off and on. 2538 02:20:45,280 --> 02:20:47,200 Speaker 2: Putin has kind of like made some motions to that 2539 02:20:47,600 --> 02:20:50,000 Speaker 2: has absolutely not acted as if this is something he 2540 02:20:50,080 --> 02:20:54,680 Speaker 2: particularly cares about. Trump clearly does want a ceasefire because 2541 02:20:54,720 --> 02:20:56,200 Speaker 2: he wants to be able to take credit for it. 2542 02:20:56,840 --> 02:21:01,600 Speaker 2: And Zelenski also clearly wants to cease fire. But there's 2543 02:21:01,640 --> 02:21:04,920 Speaker 2: been some kind of some pretty significant like hold ups. 2544 02:21:05,240 --> 02:21:09,800 Speaker 2: One of them has been around Ukrainian minerals. And you know, 2545 02:21:10,120 --> 02:21:14,240 Speaker 2: in February you had the administration talking a lot about 2546 02:21:14,240 --> 02:21:16,680 Speaker 2: how the US was going to gain control of Ukraine's 2547 02:21:16,720 --> 02:21:19,600 Speaker 2: minerals in order to pay us back for our support 2548 02:21:19,840 --> 02:21:24,199 Speaker 2: of their war effort. And Zelensky drew a very firm line, 2549 02:21:24,320 --> 02:21:26,879 Speaker 2: as he often does, like no, I'm not gonna You're 2550 02:21:26,920 --> 02:21:29,480 Speaker 2: not just going to get all of this, all of 2551 02:21:29,560 --> 02:21:32,600 Speaker 2: our country's minerals. And I should note here that like 2552 02:21:32,920 --> 02:21:35,640 Speaker 2: this is a fairly significant issue in global terms. It's 2553 02:21:35,800 --> 02:21:39,119 Speaker 2: estimated that Ukraine has about five percent of the planet's 2554 02:21:39,160 --> 02:21:44,440 Speaker 2: critical raw materials, including massive reserves of graphite. They're somewhere 2555 02:21:44,440 --> 02:21:47,120 Speaker 2: in like the top five countries in terms of proven 2556 02:21:47,160 --> 02:21:50,879 Speaker 2: graphite reserves, which among other things, is a critical ingredient 2557 02:21:51,120 --> 02:21:54,800 Speaker 2: for batteries in electric vehicles. They supply about seven percent 2558 02:21:54,840 --> 02:21:58,280 Speaker 2: of Europe's titanium. They're home to a third of European 2559 02:21:58,360 --> 02:22:01,880 Speaker 2: lithium deposits. This is not an exhaustive list that's just 2560 02:22:02,000 --> 02:22:06,959 Speaker 2: kind of you know, to start things off. And initially, 2561 02:22:07,120 --> 02:22:09,800 Speaker 2: when there was this kind of pushback from Zelenski saying like, no, 2562 02:22:09,879 --> 02:22:11,879 Speaker 2: you're not just going to get all that putin, came 2563 02:22:11,920 --> 02:22:13,920 Speaker 2: in and was like, well, hey, you know, we've occupied 2564 02:22:13,920 --> 02:22:16,280 Speaker 2: a bunch of Ukrainian land that has raw minerals on it. 2565 02:22:16,440 --> 02:22:19,200 Speaker 2: Will give those to you, right, And so this went 2566 02:22:19,240 --> 02:22:23,920 Speaker 2: back and forth, and eventually Zelensky and Trump's people put 2567 02:22:24,000 --> 02:22:27,280 Speaker 2: together like a deal that they were supposed to sign 2568 02:22:27,480 --> 02:22:31,039 Speaker 2: earlier this month that was like at actual like bilateral 2569 02:22:31,360 --> 02:22:35,600 Speaker 2: agreement on the use of Ukrainian minerals. And essentially what 2570 02:22:35,680 --> 02:22:38,360 Speaker 2: it would have done is the deal did call for 2571 02:22:38,520 --> 02:22:41,320 Speaker 2: Ukraine to use its mineral resources to repay the United 2572 02:22:41,360 --> 02:22:43,840 Speaker 2: States to the tune of about half a trillion dollars, 2573 02:22:44,480 --> 02:22:47,960 Speaker 2: but not in a manner like where they were just 2574 02:22:48,080 --> 02:22:52,440 Speaker 2: handing us their minerals. Essentially, Ukraine would contribute fifty percent 2575 02:22:52,520 --> 02:22:56,720 Speaker 2: of revenues earned from the future monetization of government owned 2576 02:22:56,920 --> 02:23:01,200 Speaker 2: mineral resources and other natural resources. But these were critically 2577 02:23:01,640 --> 02:23:06,040 Speaker 2: revenues earned from those resources like future modernization, right, so 2578 02:23:06,360 --> 02:23:10,680 Speaker 2: new mines, new oil and gas plants not included in 2579 02:23:10,800 --> 02:23:15,000 Speaker 2: this were like current reserves, like actively being exploited for profit. 2580 02:23:15,720 --> 02:23:18,200 Speaker 2: So kind of the key to this is that, like 2581 02:23:18,440 --> 02:23:21,440 Speaker 2: mining is not something that you can turn around on 2582 02:23:21,520 --> 02:23:25,120 Speaker 2: a dime. Generally, once you have actually proven you know 2583 02:23:25,520 --> 02:23:28,240 Speaker 2: that you have sort of the reserves in an area, 2584 02:23:28,560 --> 02:23:32,480 Speaker 2: it takes about twenty years to actually get like mines 2585 02:23:32,720 --> 02:23:35,840 Speaker 2: up and running, and you know, this is an extremely 2586 02:23:35,920 --> 02:23:39,520 Speaker 2: expensive process. So one of the reasons why Ukraine considered 2587 02:23:39,560 --> 02:23:42,600 Speaker 2: this a good deal for them is that we're essentially 2588 02:23:42,720 --> 02:23:45,440 Speaker 2: putting a lot of those revenues in the hands of 2589 02:23:45,600 --> 02:23:48,760 Speaker 2: the US. But it was revenues from minerals that Ukraine 2590 02:23:48,879 --> 02:23:51,880 Speaker 2: was not currently exploiting and that the US would help 2591 02:23:51,959 --> 02:23:55,600 Speaker 2: and provide funding to exploit. So it was not just 2592 02:23:55,840 --> 02:23:59,160 Speaker 2: paying back the US. It was something that would allow 2593 02:23:59,320 --> 02:24:03,280 Speaker 2: the rebuilding of the Ukrainian economy post war. There were 2594 02:24:03,320 --> 02:24:05,640 Speaker 2: some issues with this, including the fact that mining is 2595 02:24:05,640 --> 02:24:09,320 Speaker 2: an extremely energy intensive task in Ukraine is in the 2596 02:24:09,360 --> 02:24:12,800 Speaker 2: middle of an energy crisis at the minute, But among 2597 02:24:12,879 --> 02:24:15,600 Speaker 2: other things, it would have brought the US in and 2598 02:24:15,920 --> 02:24:19,360 Speaker 2: given them a financial stake and continued peace in the region, 2599 02:24:19,360 --> 02:24:22,080 Speaker 2: which was seen as positive. That all blew up at 2600 02:24:22,080 --> 02:24:25,280 Speaker 2: a White House meeting a couple of weeks ago, where 2601 02:24:25,920 --> 02:24:29,320 Speaker 2: if you remember JD Vance and Trump basically had a 2602 02:24:29,400 --> 02:24:34,720 Speaker 2: little like wwees SmackDown with Zelensky. It was a pretty 2603 02:24:34,879 --> 02:24:38,200 Speaker 2: ugly meeting, and after that kind of talk of the 2604 02:24:38,360 --> 02:24:42,880 Speaker 2: bilateral mineral deal faded significantly. Now what's interesting is that 2605 02:24:43,879 --> 02:24:47,440 Speaker 2: just today it's come out that Zelensky and Trump have 2606 02:24:47,560 --> 02:24:51,760 Speaker 2: had further conversations and there's a new deal apparently on 2607 02:24:51,920 --> 02:24:54,400 Speaker 2: the table, or at least the White House claimed that 2608 02:24:54,480 --> 02:24:56,800 Speaker 2: there was a new deal on the table. Both the 2609 02:24:56,840 --> 02:24:59,480 Speaker 2: White House and Zelensky's office said that it was a 2610 02:24:59,560 --> 02:25:03,680 Speaker 2: very post productive meeting. There's some evidence that Zelenski, after 2611 02:25:03,800 --> 02:25:06,280 Speaker 2: that big blow up, has been kind of doing the 2612 02:25:06,440 --> 02:25:08,240 Speaker 2: thing you've got to do with Trump, which is like 2613 02:25:08,400 --> 02:25:11,400 Speaker 2: massage him and say nice things to him so that 2614 02:25:11,520 --> 02:25:14,280 Speaker 2: he'll like you more, and that Trump has gotten kind 2615 02:25:14,280 --> 02:25:17,320 Speaker 2: of frustrated with the fact that Russia clearly has not 2616 02:25:17,480 --> 02:25:21,240 Speaker 2: been overly motivated to move towards the ceasefire. But then, 2617 02:25:21,400 --> 02:25:23,400 Speaker 2: in the middle of this meeting that everyone seems to 2618 02:25:23,480 --> 02:25:25,959 Speaker 2: agree went really well, the White House comes out and says, 2619 02:25:26,280 --> 02:25:28,400 Speaker 2: and we're working on an agreement where the US will 2620 02:25:28,440 --> 02:25:32,680 Speaker 2: control all of Ukraine's nuclear reactors, and Ukraine came out 2621 02:25:32,720 --> 02:25:36,120 Speaker 2: and said, no, we're not absolutely we did not say 2622 02:25:36,200 --> 02:25:38,760 Speaker 2: that that was a deal. So I don't know what's 2623 02:25:38,800 --> 02:25:42,840 Speaker 2: actually going to happen here. Ukraine is a massive, like 2624 02:25:43,000 --> 02:25:46,640 Speaker 2: nuclear energy state. In fact, the only European country that 2625 02:25:46,959 --> 02:25:49,720 Speaker 2: competes with them or that is like on the same 2626 02:25:49,800 --> 02:25:52,840 Speaker 2: level as they are in Europe in terms of nuclear 2627 02:25:52,879 --> 02:25:57,200 Speaker 2: industry is France. They've got four nuclear power plants with 2628 02:25:57,320 --> 02:26:02,200 Speaker 2: fifteen reactors in total. Now, obviously, like the Zapharizia plant 2629 02:26:02,840 --> 02:26:05,720 Speaker 2: is still under Russian control, which is a significant chunk. 2630 02:26:05,800 --> 02:26:08,360 Speaker 2: It's like six of the fifteen reactors in the country, 2631 02:26:08,959 --> 02:26:11,720 Speaker 2: and Ukraine is in the process of building more. They've 2632 02:26:11,840 --> 02:26:15,080 Speaker 2: actively added capacity since the end of the Soviet Union, 2633 02:26:15,640 --> 02:26:18,160 Speaker 2: and so one of the promises for sort of future 2634 02:26:18,280 --> 02:26:21,720 Speaker 2: Ukrainian economic stability is that they will be able to 2635 02:26:21,800 --> 02:26:24,800 Speaker 2: export nuclear energy to the rest of Europe, which is 2636 02:26:24,879 --> 02:26:28,840 Speaker 2: also going through an energy crisis. So it's unclear what's 2637 02:26:28,879 --> 02:26:33,400 Speaker 2: going to happen. There's definitely evidence again that Zelensky has 2638 02:26:33,520 --> 02:26:37,000 Speaker 2: kind of figured out how to massage Trump a little bit. 2639 02:26:37,040 --> 02:26:39,360 Speaker 2: There's a quote from an article in The Conversation that 2640 02:26:39,680 --> 02:26:43,120 Speaker 2: I found very interesting here While Trump still leans towards 2641 02:26:43,160 --> 02:26:45,800 Speaker 2: putin his relationship with Zelensky seems to have improved. The 2642 02:26:45,879 --> 02:26:48,160 Speaker 2: Ukrainian president appears to have learned that Trump doesn't have 2643 02:26:48,200 --> 02:26:50,200 Speaker 2: a long memory and that flattery goes a long way 2644 02:26:50,240 --> 02:26:52,600 Speaker 2: with the US president. Trump meanwhile, is no longer calling 2645 02:26:52,680 --> 02:26:55,120 Speaker 2: Zelenski a dictator, and yet there is no mention of 2646 02:26:55,200 --> 02:26:58,840 Speaker 2: halting US military aid or intelligence to Ukraine. There's the opposite, 2647 02:26:58,920 --> 02:27:00,600 Speaker 2: in fact, is the US has said it will assist 2648 02:27:00,640 --> 02:27:03,920 Speaker 2: in finding more patriot missile defense systems after Zelenski mentioned 2649 02:27:03,920 --> 02:27:06,560 Speaker 2: they were sorely needed. By giving Trump credit for the 2650 02:27:06,640 --> 02:27:09,440 Speaker 2: ceasefire initiative, Zelensky is putting the ball in Russia's court, 2651 02:27:09,520 --> 02:27:12,520 Speaker 2: and his apparent receptiveness to Trump's idea about the US 2652 02:27:12,600 --> 02:27:15,560 Speaker 2: taking over Ukraine's nuclear power plants will appeal to Trump's 2653 02:27:15,560 --> 02:27:19,720 Speaker 2: transactional instincts in addition to offering Trump business deals. And 2654 02:27:20,040 --> 02:27:22,720 Speaker 2: I don't fully know what the conversation is saying here 2655 02:27:22,760 --> 02:27:25,560 Speaker 2: because Ukraine or Zelenski's office has stated like we're not 2656 02:27:26,120 --> 02:27:28,680 Speaker 2: considering handing the US control. I think this may be 2657 02:27:28,840 --> 02:27:32,240 Speaker 2: something like what happened with the energy deal, where essentially 2658 02:27:32,360 --> 02:27:36,080 Speaker 2: what they talked about was the US having a financial 2659 02:27:36,160 --> 02:27:39,800 Speaker 2: interest in the rebuilding an expansion of the Ukrainian nuclear 2660 02:27:39,840 --> 02:27:44,240 Speaker 2: power grid, which would be an extension of existing programs 2661 02:27:44,360 --> 02:27:47,880 Speaker 2: because Ukraine's nuclear power grid is already very reliant on 2662 02:27:47,959 --> 02:27:51,880 Speaker 2: a US nuclear energy company, Westinghouse, that provides both the 2663 02:27:52,040 --> 02:27:55,880 Speaker 2: raw fuel for nuclear reactors to Ukraine and also provides 2664 02:27:56,480 --> 02:28:00,000 Speaker 2: a lot of actual technology for different kind of system 2665 02:28:00,360 --> 02:28:03,800 Speaker 2: in the reactors. So I kind of think that what's 2666 02:28:03,879 --> 02:28:06,960 Speaker 2: happening here is that basically it was floated like, well, 2667 02:28:07,000 --> 02:28:09,920 Speaker 2: we can extend and expand this deal, so the US 2668 02:28:09,920 --> 02:28:13,320 Speaker 2: will have a financial interest in this potentially very large 2669 02:28:13,520 --> 02:28:17,080 Speaker 2: Ukrainian industry, and then Trump and his people kind of 2670 02:28:17,320 --> 02:28:19,600 Speaker 2: took that and said to everyone else, Yeah, the US 2671 02:28:19,720 --> 02:28:22,400 Speaker 2: is going to be in charge of Ukraine's nuclear power. 2672 02:28:23,200 --> 02:28:25,560 Speaker 2: That's my best guess for what happened here. 2673 02:28:26,080 --> 02:28:28,040 Speaker 7: It really seems like we're relearning one of the last 2674 02:28:28,240 --> 02:28:30,040 Speaker 7: lessons from the administration, which is, if you can be 2675 02:28:30,120 --> 02:28:32,119 Speaker 7: the last person in the room with Trump. 2676 02:28:32,440 --> 02:28:34,320 Speaker 3: You can put what he does. 2677 02:28:34,440 --> 02:28:34,920 Speaker 7: Hey, yeah, I. 2678 02:28:37,400 --> 02:28:39,800 Speaker 3: Mia, do you want to do a tariff talk? Wait? 2679 02:28:39,840 --> 02:28:44,039 Speaker 2: Wait, did you say tariffs, Garrison or did you say. 2680 02:28:48,800 --> 02:28:51,400 Speaker 6: Jazz rock jazz bot? 2681 02:28:51,600 --> 02:28:58,760 Speaker 3: Sorry, locking jazz lock jaz. 2682 02:29:00,040 --> 02:29:03,080 Speaker 2: Ah, God feels good every time. Okay, miya, sorry, you 2683 02:29:03,160 --> 02:29:04,600 Speaker 2: can talk about the actual news now. 2684 02:29:04,920 --> 02:29:05,400 Speaker 1: Let's do this. 2685 02:29:05,520 --> 02:29:08,120 Speaker 7: So the news we have today is that effectively every 2686 02:29:08,160 --> 02:29:10,600 Speaker 7: single thing I have talked about on tariff talk before 2687 02:29:10,680 --> 02:29:13,600 Speaker 7: this is just the fucking prelude, you know. And though 2688 02:29:13,680 --> 02:29:16,040 Speaker 7: those have been very very extreme tariffs, but these are 2689 02:29:16,560 --> 02:29:20,520 Speaker 7: effectively going to be looked back on as the opening 2690 02:29:20,640 --> 02:29:24,760 Speaker 7: series of skirmishes and sort of probing defenses. On April seconds, 2691 02:29:24,879 --> 02:29:27,840 Speaker 7: Trump is going to crash the entire world economy. He 2692 02:29:28,000 --> 02:29:31,800 Speaker 7: is calling this Liberation Day. On April second, he is 2693 02:29:31,879 --> 02:29:36,200 Speaker 7: planning to impose reciprocal tariffs on every single country on Earth. 2694 02:29:37,040 --> 02:29:40,440 Speaker 2: Finally, you know what, I'm completely on board. As long 2695 02:29:40,520 --> 02:29:44,920 Speaker 2: as we're finally sticking it to those snotty fucks in Oman, 2696 02:29:45,360 --> 02:29:49,320 Speaker 2: you know, then everything's good. It's about goddamn time. 2697 02:29:50,040 --> 02:29:52,160 Speaker 7: Now I'm gonna take a fucking victory lap here because 2698 02:29:52,200 --> 02:29:53,760 Speaker 7: I have been talking about this for a very very 2699 02:29:53,840 --> 02:29:54,200 Speaker 7: long time. 2700 02:29:54,240 --> 02:29:55,800 Speaker 3: I talked about this last year. I talked about this 2701 02:29:55,800 --> 02:29:57,240 Speaker 3: the beginning of last year, talked about this the end 2702 02:29:57,240 --> 02:29:57,640 Speaker 3: of last year. 2703 02:29:57,680 --> 02:29:59,480 Speaker 7: The entire media seems to have short of forgotten about 2704 02:29:59,520 --> 02:30:01,440 Speaker 7: this until they all suddenly remembered this week that Trump 2705 02:30:01,480 --> 02:30:04,760 Speaker 7: had promised to do reciprocal tariffs. So what reciprocal tariffs 2706 02:30:04,760 --> 02:30:06,959 Speaker 7: are in theory is if there's a tariff on something 2707 02:30:07,120 --> 02:30:09,240 Speaker 7: and I from another country, the US matches it. So 2708 02:30:09,520 --> 02:30:12,600 Speaker 7: the way the Trump administration thinks about tariffs is deeply weird. 2709 02:30:12,760 --> 02:30:15,920 Speaker 7: So they're including things like value added taxes on goods 2710 02:30:16,240 --> 02:30:17,279 Speaker 7: in countries. 2711 02:30:17,120 --> 02:30:20,080 Speaker 3: Wow, which is like a sales yeah, packs in the US. 2712 02:30:20,280 --> 02:30:24,280 Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, But also like subsidies and also and this 2713 02:30:24,400 --> 02:30:26,240 Speaker 7: is the part that has gotten less things, but quote 2714 02:30:26,320 --> 02:30:30,200 Speaker 7: unquote currency manipulation. Now, how the fuck do you do 2715 02:30:30,280 --> 02:30:32,960 Speaker 7: you calculate that for literally every single country on Earth? 2716 02:30:33,520 --> 02:30:36,960 Speaker 7: Who knows business insider has some reporting on this where 2717 02:30:37,000 --> 02:30:39,640 Speaker 7: where they talk to some insiders and okay, so literally 2718 02:30:39,680 --> 02:30:42,960 Speaker 7: there are not enough people working on tariffs to like 2719 02:30:43,160 --> 02:30:45,840 Speaker 7: calculate out individual tariff races for every single country on Earth. 2720 02:30:46,920 --> 02:30:48,720 Speaker 7: It looks like the plan right now, when this is 2721 02:30:48,760 --> 02:30:51,119 Speaker 7: also just to change, because again, this is the Trump administration, 2722 02:30:51,280 --> 02:30:53,000 Speaker 7: and who the fuck knows what they're gonna be saying 2723 02:30:53,120 --> 02:30:55,760 Speaker 7: or doing in two weeks. But what we know right 2724 02:30:55,879 --> 02:30:58,680 Speaker 7: now is it looks like they're going to separate every 2725 02:30:58,720 --> 02:31:01,280 Speaker 7: country on Earth into three tiers of tariffs. So it's 2726 02:31:01,280 --> 02:31:02,640 Speaker 7: going to be like a low tier, a mid tier, 2727 02:31:02,680 --> 02:31:05,720 Speaker 7: and a high tier. And it's it's unclear exactly what 2728 02:31:05,879 --> 02:31:07,600 Speaker 7: levels they're going to be. These are going to be 2729 02:31:08,080 --> 02:31:10,440 Speaker 7: on top of all of the additional tariffs that they've 2730 02:31:10,440 --> 02:31:13,320 Speaker 7: already imposed. So say, for example, trying to gets put 2731 02:31:13,320 --> 02:31:15,000 Speaker 7: into high tier one, they put like a fifty percent 2732 02:31:15,040 --> 02:31:16,360 Speaker 7: tariff on it. That means a terrifra. It's going to 2733 02:31:16,400 --> 02:31:18,600 Speaker 7: be seventy percent because there's already twenty percent tariffs on 2734 02:31:18,640 --> 02:31:23,000 Speaker 7: their business. Insider seem to think twenty percent is like 2735 02:31:23,120 --> 02:31:26,600 Speaker 7: the low one. I don't know about that. I think 2736 02:31:26,640 --> 02:31:27,640 Speaker 7: they're going to be pretty high. 2737 02:31:28,680 --> 02:31:29,440 Speaker 3: We have no idea. 2738 02:31:29,520 --> 02:31:31,880 Speaker 7: And again, so what's happening here is Trump is declaring 2739 02:31:31,920 --> 02:31:34,400 Speaker 7: this Liberation Day because he has convinced himself. I think 2740 02:31:34,400 --> 02:31:36,840 Speaker 7: I finally understand what's going on in his brain, which 2741 02:31:36,840 --> 02:31:38,520 Speaker 7: is that he has convinced himself that like, if you 2742 02:31:38,600 --> 02:31:40,760 Speaker 7: have a trade deficit with a country, that means the 2743 02:31:40,800 --> 02:31:41,560 Speaker 7: country's robbing you. 2744 02:31:42,240 --> 02:31:43,440 Speaker 3: Right, yes, yes, again. 2745 02:31:43,840 --> 02:31:48,600 Speaker 2: Trump's firm, lifelong belief is that if you are selling something, 2746 02:31:49,160 --> 02:31:52,360 Speaker 2: you've won, and if you're buying something, you have lost. 2747 02:31:52,520 --> 02:31:56,640 Speaker 7: Yeah, Now, this is not how international trade works at 2748 02:31:56,680 --> 02:31:59,359 Speaker 7: all for the US. Like the entire US empire absolutely 2749 02:32:00,040 --> 02:32:02,440 Speaker 7: fuier is based on outsourcing a bunch of political violence 2750 02:32:02,440 --> 02:32:06,280 Speaker 7: to other countries so you can buy goods at cheap rates, right, 2751 02:32:06,360 --> 02:32:08,120 Speaker 7: Like that's that's that's, that's what the empire is. 2752 02:32:08,200 --> 02:32:11,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, we love buying things. It's the entire basis of 2753 02:32:11,560 --> 02:32:12,359 Speaker 2: our civilization. 2754 02:32:12,480 --> 02:32:12,640 Speaker 6: Yeah. 2755 02:32:13,320 --> 02:32:16,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, The reason Jeffrey Bezos was that the inaugration is 2756 02:32:16,760 --> 02:32:17,920 Speaker 3: because we like to be buying. 2757 02:32:18,080 --> 02:32:20,920 Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, and so is something I mentioned, you know, 2758 02:32:21,080 --> 02:32:22,680 Speaker 7: back back when I was talking about this in the 2759 02:32:22,720 --> 02:32:25,760 Speaker 7: tariff episode right after the election, is that the thing 2760 02:32:25,800 --> 02:32:28,120 Speaker 7: about reciprocal tariffs, right, is that it means that if 2761 02:32:28,160 --> 02:32:30,360 Speaker 7: if anyone attempts to to fight a trade war with 2762 02:32:30,440 --> 02:32:33,320 Speaker 7: the US, so another country imposes twenty percent tariffs, the 2763 02:32:33,400 --> 02:32:35,240 Speaker 7: US will also impost twenty percent terriffs. And this just 2764 02:32:35,280 --> 02:32:37,800 Speaker 7: spials out of control into a version of a trade 2765 02:32:37,840 --> 02:32:39,800 Speaker 7: war so unhinged, like none of us have ever seen 2766 02:32:39,840 --> 02:32:40,879 Speaker 7: anything like it in our lifetimes. 2767 02:32:40,959 --> 02:32:43,800 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, brother, yeah, that's coming. 2768 02:32:43,920 --> 02:32:46,000 Speaker 7: We have We now have April second as the day 2769 02:32:46,040 --> 02:32:49,120 Speaker 7: everything explodes. I also want to want up put Like 2770 02:32:49,120 --> 02:32:51,520 Speaker 7: another note here, the hope has always been from a 2771 02:32:51,600 --> 02:32:54,279 Speaker 7: lot of countries and a lot of the financial markets 2772 02:32:54,400 --> 02:32:57,520 Speaker 7: and a bunch of companies that these terrorifts are going 2773 02:32:57,560 --> 02:32:59,880 Speaker 7: to have more exemptions, because there were some exemptions on 2774 02:33:00,000 --> 02:33:01,920 Speaker 7: stuff in the initial tariffs on Mexico and Canada. 2775 02:33:02,080 --> 02:33:03,760 Speaker 2: Well, and he kept going back and forth. 2776 02:33:03,920 --> 02:33:07,080 Speaker 7: Right, yeah, but now we're getting into terroifts with which 2777 02:33:07,080 --> 02:33:09,520 Speaker 7: you have no exceptions. The steel and aluminum tariffs have 2778 02:33:09,640 --> 02:33:10,680 Speaker 7: had no exemptions at all. 2779 02:33:11,240 --> 02:33:12,080 Speaker 3: What we've been hearing. 2780 02:33:12,200 --> 02:33:13,680 Speaker 7: So one of the things I've been noting is that 2781 02:33:14,680 --> 02:33:18,199 Speaker 7: Canada and EU have been basically mobilizing in the trade 2782 02:33:18,240 --> 02:33:21,000 Speaker 7: war and imposing reciprocal terroists in the US. China has two, 2783 02:33:21,640 --> 02:33:25,280 Speaker 7: Mexico has not. Apparently Mexico still thinks that they can 2784 02:33:25,320 --> 02:33:27,320 Speaker 7: negotiate to be in like the lowest tier of tariffs, 2785 02:33:27,360 --> 02:33:29,920 Speaker 7: which won't completely destroy their economy. Fuck if I know 2786 02:33:30,040 --> 02:33:33,879 Speaker 7: why they think that, but who knows. Yeah, but that's 2787 02:33:34,120 --> 02:33:36,280 Speaker 7: the fact. That's effectively the tariff news we have right now. 2788 02:33:36,600 --> 02:33:40,800 Speaker 7: We have again April second, quote unquote Liberation Day, the 2789 02:33:40,920 --> 02:33:42,879 Speaker 7: day that this all goes into a fact. I bet 2790 02:33:42,920 --> 02:33:44,920 Speaker 7: they wanted to do April first and realize that they couldn't. 2791 02:33:45,160 --> 02:33:48,360 Speaker 3: No, Yeah, I didn't think that. No Trump. 2792 02:33:48,480 --> 02:33:52,400 Speaker 8: Trump announced this during his Joint Congressional address, and he 2793 02:33:52,760 --> 02:33:56,200 Speaker 8: openly said that he originally wanted to do it on 2794 02:33:56,280 --> 02:33:59,600 Speaker 8: April first, at the start of the month, but decided 2795 02:33:59,680 --> 02:34:04,200 Speaker 8: not to because he is too superstitious as a person. So, yes, 2796 02:34:04,320 --> 02:34:06,280 Speaker 8: originally they were going to be on April first, and 2797 02:34:06,360 --> 02:34:08,720 Speaker 8: then they pushed him back to April second because they 2798 02:34:08,720 --> 02:34:10,240 Speaker 8: didn't want it to be on April Foul's day. 2799 02:34:10,360 --> 02:34:11,400 Speaker 3: That's good. That's a good. 2800 02:34:12,959 --> 02:34:16,760 Speaker 8: So that's a great, great extra insight into the mind 2801 02:34:17,000 --> 02:34:19,640 Speaker 8: of the US God King. 2802 02:34:19,840 --> 02:34:20,080 Speaker 1: Cool. 2803 02:34:20,400 --> 02:34:23,440 Speaker 8: Anyway, let's go on ad break and then come back 2804 02:34:23,480 --> 02:34:25,800 Speaker 8: to discuss all of the other bad things that are 2805 02:34:25,879 --> 02:34:27,000 Speaker 8: happening in the country. 2806 02:34:38,959 --> 02:34:39,680 Speaker 3: Okay, we're back. 2807 02:34:40,320 --> 02:34:42,040 Speaker 8: The first thing I want to kind of open to 2808 02:34:42,120 --> 02:34:45,840 Speaker 8: a group discussion on is that On Tuesday, March eighteenth, 2809 02:34:45,920 --> 02:34:49,039 Speaker 8: the federal judge issued a preliminary injunction blocking Trump's ban 2810 02:34:49,440 --> 02:34:52,120 Speaker 8: on trans people serving in the military, ruling that the 2811 02:34:52,240 --> 02:34:56,760 Speaker 8: blanket ban likely violates constitutional rights of Steven Miller responded 2812 02:34:56,760 --> 02:34:59,920 Speaker 8: to the ruling by writing, District court judges have now 2813 02:35:00,160 --> 02:35:02,959 Speaker 8: decided that they are in command of the armed forces? 2814 02:35:03,480 --> 02:35:05,359 Speaker 3: Is there no end to this madness? 2815 02:35:05,840 --> 02:35:06,120 Speaker 6: God? 2816 02:35:06,879 --> 02:35:07,119 Speaker 3: Fuck. 2817 02:35:07,400 --> 02:35:07,440 Speaker 1: So. 2818 02:35:07,680 --> 02:35:10,080 Speaker 8: I know this is a topic that like we've discussed 2819 02:35:10,120 --> 02:35:13,199 Speaker 8: a lot, as you know, we're not all big US 2820 02:35:13,320 --> 02:35:15,680 Speaker 8: military defenders, no. 2821 02:35:16,720 --> 02:35:19,680 Speaker 2: But it's mostly done bad stuff in my lifetime. 2822 02:35:20,560 --> 02:35:23,840 Speaker 8: But we still take like, almost like an ontological issue 2823 02:35:24,560 --> 02:35:28,520 Speaker 8: with this band because it essentially creates just a secondary 2824 02:35:28,640 --> 02:35:32,160 Speaker 8: class of citizen with fundamentally different rights from the rest 2825 02:35:32,200 --> 02:35:34,959 Speaker 8: of everyone else, and that is never a good thing. 2826 02:35:35,520 --> 02:35:38,400 Speaker 2: It's like, so right now, one of the semi positive 2827 02:35:38,440 --> 02:35:41,040 Speaker 2: news stories is that Trump's ATF is going to be 2828 02:35:41,120 --> 02:35:44,480 Speaker 2: for the first time restoring people's Second Amendment rights who 2829 02:35:44,520 --> 02:35:47,880 Speaker 2: had them taken away because they were involuntarily institutionalized. And 2830 02:35:48,320 --> 02:35:50,320 Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of liberals being like, oh, they're 2831 02:35:50,320 --> 02:35:52,720 Speaker 2: just gonna let more crazy people have guns. This is bad, 2832 02:35:52,879 --> 02:35:56,160 Speaker 2: And like, I have to disagree whether or not you 2833 02:35:56,400 --> 02:35:59,840 Speaker 2: like it. The Second Amendment is a fundamental right under 2834 02:35:59,840 --> 02:36:03,440 Speaker 2: the Constitution, and it's bad to say that this class 2835 02:36:03,480 --> 02:36:08,600 Speaker 2: of people forever lose a fundamental right because they're involuntarily institutionalized. 2836 02:36:08,959 --> 02:36:09,680 Speaker 3: That's bad. 2837 02:36:10,160 --> 02:36:14,400 Speaker 2: And likewise, even if you hate the US military's role 2838 02:36:14,680 --> 02:36:19,960 Speaker 2: in US imperialism, which fine enough, the right to serve 2839 02:36:20,160 --> 02:36:23,840 Speaker 2: in an integrated military has been a major underpinning of 2840 02:36:24,160 --> 02:36:28,480 Speaker 2: most of the civil rights movements, like a foundational depending 2841 02:36:28,520 --> 02:36:32,320 Speaker 2: of most civil rights movements in this country's history, going 2842 02:36:32,360 --> 02:36:34,720 Speaker 2: back to the Civil War, you know, black civil rights, 2843 02:36:35,280 --> 02:36:39,000 Speaker 2: including LGBTQ rights and including women's rights. Right, It's like 2844 02:36:39,400 --> 02:36:42,440 Speaker 2: it is significant. And so the fact that the GOP 2845 02:36:43,080 --> 02:36:47,920 Speaker 2: is attempting to peel this back and essentially reverse integration 2846 02:36:48,000 --> 02:36:51,440 Speaker 2: of the military is bad for two reasons. One, it represents, 2847 02:36:51,480 --> 02:36:55,520 Speaker 2: as you've said, creating separate classes of people and peeling 2848 02:36:55,720 --> 02:36:59,400 Speaker 2: fundamental what are considered under the law in this country, 2849 02:36:59,480 --> 02:37:02,760 Speaker 2: fundamental rights away from groups of people. And it's also 2850 02:37:02,959 --> 02:37:06,640 Speaker 2: just dangerous for them to remake the military into an 2851 02:37:06,760 --> 02:37:11,160 Speaker 2: all white organization, right, like all white male organization. There's 2852 02:37:11,200 --> 02:37:12,359 Speaker 2: a reason why that's also. 2853 02:37:12,400 --> 02:37:13,200 Speaker 3: Dangerous to you. 2854 02:37:13,600 --> 02:37:15,600 Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think people should care about this, even 2855 02:37:15,640 --> 02:37:17,320 Speaker 2: if they're you know, leftists. 2856 02:37:18,360 --> 02:37:21,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, And like, especially in this country, the military represents 2857 02:37:21,840 --> 02:37:25,400 Speaker 3: one of the few social mobility tools that exist. 2858 02:37:25,560 --> 02:37:25,680 Speaker 4: Right. 2859 02:37:25,800 --> 02:37:28,480 Speaker 3: People don't just join the military because they country, to 2860 02:37:28,560 --> 02:37:30,160 Speaker 3: what you might have seen on Twitter dot com, they 2861 02:37:30,240 --> 02:37:32,279 Speaker 3: want to go to Middle East and kill people. Sometimes 2862 02:37:32,320 --> 02:37:33,520 Speaker 3: they do it because they want to get a chance 2863 02:37:33,560 --> 02:37:35,720 Speaker 3: to go to education. Sometimes they want to do it 2864 02:37:35,800 --> 02:37:37,160 Speaker 3: so they get a chance to have healthcare. 2865 02:37:37,400 --> 02:37:37,600 Speaker 6: Yep. 2866 02:37:37,760 --> 02:37:40,840 Speaker 3: And like trans people serve at a higher rate, then 2867 02:37:40,840 --> 02:37:43,720 Speaker 3: it says people may not be the case for very 2868 02:37:43,760 --> 02:37:45,760 Speaker 3: much longer. By it like that has been the case. 2869 02:37:45,840 --> 02:37:48,040 Speaker 3: And they have rights to use however they want. They 2870 02:37:48,040 --> 02:37:50,200 Speaker 3: don't just have rights to use how you or I 2871 02:37:50,360 --> 02:37:52,080 Speaker 3: or anyone else would like them to use well, And. 2872 02:37:52,080 --> 02:37:54,800 Speaker 2: That's also a broad truth. For the US military, members 2873 02:37:54,840 --> 02:37:58,440 Speaker 2: of marginalized groups have always served at a higher rate 2874 02:37:58,879 --> 02:38:02,560 Speaker 2: than basically anyone else. This includes like Native Americans serve 2875 02:38:02,680 --> 02:38:05,880 Speaker 2: at a higher proportion of like their population within the 2876 02:38:05,959 --> 02:38:11,119 Speaker 2: country than most other groups, in part because traditionally, serving 2877 02:38:11,160 --> 02:38:13,720 Speaker 2: in the military was a way in which to gain 2878 02:38:14,800 --> 02:38:18,439 Speaker 2: acceptance and entrance into American society. 2879 02:38:18,720 --> 02:38:20,959 Speaker 8: It's also just like another world, like you can field 2880 02:38:21,240 --> 02:38:24,520 Speaker 8: in some ways, like insulated from like yes, the hoarders 2881 02:38:24,560 --> 02:38:28,640 Speaker 8: you might experience in like regular suburban life oddly enough, Yeah, 2882 02:38:28,840 --> 02:38:29,400 Speaker 8: to weigh. 2883 02:38:29,200 --> 02:38:32,320 Speaker 3: Out of the isolation that so many people experience in 2884 02:38:32,360 --> 02:38:32,640 Speaker 3: the world. 2885 02:38:32,879 --> 02:38:35,200 Speaker 7: And like, is it extremely bad that the way that 2886 02:38:35,360 --> 02:38:37,560 Speaker 7: you enter your into American society is by being a 2887 02:38:37,640 --> 02:38:39,440 Speaker 7: part of the imperial war machine? 2888 02:38:39,560 --> 02:38:44,000 Speaker 3: Yes? Yes, but also the war machine is going to 2889 02:38:44,080 --> 02:38:46,640 Speaker 3: be there whether you are in it or not. Yeah. 2890 02:38:46,680 --> 02:38:49,600 Speaker 7: And the actual fundamental important thing here is again what 2891 02:38:49,640 --> 02:38:52,880 Speaker 7: we've been saying is that like the fundamental basis of 2892 02:38:53,520 --> 02:38:57,280 Speaker 7: liberal democracy, going back to the American Revolution, going back 2893 02:38:57,320 --> 02:38:59,199 Speaker 7: to the French Revolution, going back to like the original 2894 02:38:59,280 --> 02:39:01,960 Speaker 7: liberal revolutions, the fundamental principle of is that everyone is 2895 02:39:02,000 --> 02:39:04,720 Speaker 7: equal before the law, and the moment that ceases to 2896 02:39:04,760 --> 02:39:06,320 Speaker 7: be true, and it has not been true in this 2897 02:39:06,440 --> 02:39:09,280 Speaker 7: country ever, but you know, we're seeing increasing numbers of 2898 02:39:09,280 --> 02:39:11,040 Speaker 7: people who are not considered equal before the law. We 2899 02:39:11,160 --> 02:39:14,160 Speaker 7: just spent this entire fucking like first part of this 2900 02:39:14,240 --> 02:39:16,400 Speaker 7: episode talking about what happens when people are considered to 2901 02:39:16,440 --> 02:39:18,200 Speaker 7: have no protections under the law, which at the state 2902 02:39:18,280 --> 02:39:20,040 Speaker 7: can just fucking black bag you and send you to 2903 02:39:20,080 --> 02:39:24,600 Speaker 7: a goolag. Yeah, Like that is bad. That's what's that 2904 02:39:24,760 --> 02:39:28,200 Speaker 7: fundamentally at stake here, not like whether you think the 2905 02:39:28,320 --> 02:39:28,879 Speaker 7: army is good. 2906 02:39:29,360 --> 02:39:32,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, And imagine for those people, like when they people 2907 02:39:32,800 --> 02:39:34,920 Speaker 3: could have served nineteen years, right, they could have been 2908 02:39:35,040 --> 02:39:36,560 Speaker 3: just about to get their twenty years and get their 2909 02:39:36,600 --> 02:39:39,600 Speaker 3: retirement and will now not get that, Like they they 2910 02:39:39,800 --> 02:39:42,200 Speaker 3: signed up expecting a thing, right, Like there was a 2911 02:39:42,280 --> 02:39:44,280 Speaker 3: quid pro quote there that they would give twenty years 2912 02:39:44,320 --> 02:39:45,960 Speaker 3: of their life and possibly a lot of their health 2913 02:39:46,240 --> 02:39:48,440 Speaker 3: to the United States government in in return, they will 2914 02:39:48,480 --> 02:39:51,400 Speaker 3: get health care and a pentrum for the rest of 2915 02:39:51,400 --> 02:39:53,240 Speaker 3: their lives. And people are now going to lose that. 2916 02:39:53,959 --> 02:39:54,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 2917 02:39:54,520 --> 02:39:58,280 Speaker 8: In some related news, the VA just announced that quote 2918 02:39:58,280 --> 02:40:01,520 Speaker 8: effective immediately, the VA will not to offer cross sex 2919 02:40:01,640 --> 02:40:04,560 Speaker 8: hormone therapy to veterans who have a current diagnosis or 2920 02:40:04,720 --> 02:40:09,119 Speaker 8: history of, or exhibit symptoms consistent with gender dysphoria unless 2921 02:40:09,280 --> 02:40:12,039 Speaker 8: such veterans are already receiving such care from the VA, 2922 02:40:12,400 --> 02:40:15,160 Speaker 8: or such veterans we're receiving such care from the military 2923 02:40:15,280 --> 02:40:17,320 Speaker 8: as a part of and upon their separation from from 2924 02:40:17,320 --> 02:40:22,400 Speaker 8: the military service, and are eligible for VA healthcare. So 2925 02:40:22,720 --> 02:40:26,120 Speaker 8: basically they will not be emitting like new patients to 2926 02:40:26,240 --> 02:40:28,240 Speaker 8: receive gender affirming health care. 2927 02:40:28,360 --> 02:40:31,959 Speaker 3: Well, unless they're sist gender it seems like oh yes, correct, yes, 2928 02:40:32,040 --> 02:40:34,760 Speaker 3: if it's just basically assists men can still receive gender 2929 02:40:34,760 --> 02:40:35,640 Speaker 3: affirming hormones. 2930 02:40:35,920 --> 02:40:38,320 Speaker 8: Sure, be Like I kind of get annoyed when people 2931 02:40:38,400 --> 02:40:40,600 Speaker 8: do that, like comparison and is like that's never like 2932 02:40:41,200 --> 02:40:42,760 Speaker 8: we're falling into like this art for trap of like 2933 02:40:43,080 --> 02:40:45,320 Speaker 8: we're actually using words to mean what they mean, and 2934 02:40:45,440 --> 02:40:47,560 Speaker 8: like they're not using words like that, you know, like 2935 02:40:47,920 --> 02:40:52,240 Speaker 8: whenever people like laugh about haha, they banned pronouns at school. 2936 02:40:52,640 --> 02:40:55,680 Speaker 8: Now now you can't say the word I and you're 2937 02:40:55,720 --> 02:40:58,320 Speaker 8: like no, like come out like what like that's not 2938 02:40:58,440 --> 02:41:00,280 Speaker 8: what they mean, Like you have to understand like the 2939 02:41:00,320 --> 02:41:01,600 Speaker 8: dog whistles that they're using. 2940 02:41:01,800 --> 02:41:05,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. I found it interesting though that they seemingly like 2941 02:41:05,840 --> 02:41:08,160 Speaker 3: you tried to even get around like that like linguistic 2942 02:41:08,280 --> 02:41:09,840 Speaker 3: thing in the statement sure. 2943 02:41:09,640 --> 02:41:11,560 Speaker 8: I mean like it depends what you mean by gender dysphoria, right, 2944 02:41:11,640 --> 02:41:13,920 Speaker 8: Like you could theoretically you could have gender ysphoria because 2945 02:41:14,240 --> 02:41:16,840 Speaker 8: your assists male and you want to become more masculine, right, 2946 02:41:16,959 --> 02:41:21,119 Speaker 8: Like all of these diagnoses have like a very fuzzy 2947 02:41:21,240 --> 02:41:25,360 Speaker 8: ontological underpinning. Right, these are just categories that we're projecting. Yes, 2948 02:41:26,120 --> 02:41:29,640 Speaker 8: but this is you know, probably not great. It's probably 2949 02:41:29,680 --> 02:41:31,680 Speaker 8: isn't a good thing. Like, for instance, if you already 2950 02:41:31,680 --> 02:41:34,200 Speaker 8: have VIA healthcare, you're not in the military anymore, and 2951 02:41:34,320 --> 02:41:36,720 Speaker 8: now you decide that you would like to receive gender 2952 02:41:36,720 --> 02:41:39,560 Speaker 8: affirming healthcare, now you can't at least through the VA. 2953 02:41:39,800 --> 02:41:40,000 Speaker 1: Yep. 2954 02:41:40,120 --> 02:41:43,560 Speaker 3: So as a as a related thing, let's see I. 2955 02:41:43,600 --> 02:41:47,600 Speaker 8: Think we should kind of close with or like bookend 2956 02:41:47,680 --> 02:41:50,520 Speaker 8: our discussion on like like the immigration stuff and the 2957 02:41:51,080 --> 02:41:54,920 Speaker 8: black baggings and deportations which have been happening. A German 2958 02:41:54,959 --> 02:41:58,519 Speaker 8: immigrant named Fabian Schmidt who's lived in the States. 2959 02:41:58,240 --> 02:42:00,320 Speaker 2: With the green courge German named Beautifl. 2960 02:42:00,280 --> 02:42:02,240 Speaker 8: Since two thousand and eight, so like he's lived here 2961 02:42:02,280 --> 02:42:05,080 Speaker 8: quite a while. He immigrated with his mom. He was 2962 02:42:05,160 --> 02:42:08,240 Speaker 8: detained and tortured at the Boston Logan Airport upon returning 2963 02:42:08,280 --> 02:42:10,800 Speaker 8: from a visit to Europe. The man's mother says that 2964 02:42:10,879 --> 02:42:13,800 Speaker 8: he was quote unquote violently interrogated at the Logan airport 2965 02:42:13,879 --> 02:42:16,959 Speaker 8: for hours and was stripped naked, put in a cold 2966 02:42:17,000 --> 02:42:20,680 Speaker 8: shower by two officials, and pushed back into an interrogation chair. 2967 02:42:21,040 --> 02:42:21,440 Speaker 10: I'm going to. 2968 02:42:21,560 --> 02:42:24,240 Speaker 3: Quote from w GBH quote. 2969 02:42:24,560 --> 02:42:24,959 Speaker 1: She said. 2970 02:42:25,080 --> 02:42:27,800 Speaker 8: Schmid told her immigration agents pressured him to give up 2971 02:42:27,840 --> 02:42:29,920 Speaker 8: his green card. She said he was placed on a 2972 02:42:30,000 --> 02:42:31,840 Speaker 8: mat in a bright room with other people at the 2973 02:42:31,879 --> 02:42:35,160 Speaker 8: airport with little food or water, suffered sleep deprivation, and 2974 02:42:35,280 --> 02:42:38,080 Speaker 8: was denied access to his medication for anxiety and depression. 2975 02:42:38,560 --> 02:42:41,240 Speaker 8: He hardly got anything to drink, and then he wasn't 2976 02:42:41,280 --> 02:42:44,440 Speaker 8: feeling very well and he collapsed said a senior, which 2977 02:42:44,560 --> 02:42:48,520 Speaker 8: is his mom. He was transported by ambulance to mass 2978 02:42:48,640 --> 02:42:50,760 Speaker 8: General Hospital. He didn't know it at the time, but 2979 02:42:50,840 --> 02:42:53,959 Speaker 8: he also had the flu unquote. Now Schmid has since 2980 02:42:54,000 --> 02:42:57,400 Speaker 8: been transferred to multiple ice facilities. He had a misdemeanor 2981 02:42:57,600 --> 02:43:01,520 Speaker 8: charge for marijuana possession in California back in twenty fifteen, 2982 02:43:02,080 --> 02:43:04,520 Speaker 8: but that charge was dismissed the following year due to 2983 02:43:04,680 --> 02:43:07,640 Speaker 8: changes in state law. But I think that this incident 2984 02:43:07,760 --> 02:43:11,200 Speaker 8: may have flagged Schmidt on the customs and border protections 2985 02:43:11,360 --> 02:43:15,960 Speaker 8: like database and Hillary Beckham, CBP's Assistant Commissioner for Public Affairs, 2986 02:43:16,160 --> 02:43:19,440 Speaker 8: give a short statement reading quote, when an individual is 2987 02:43:19,480 --> 02:43:22,080 Speaker 8: found with drug related charges and tries to re enter 2988 02:43:22,160 --> 02:43:27,480 Speaker 8: the country, officers will take proper action unquote. But essentially 2989 02:43:27,560 --> 02:43:30,680 Speaker 8: they like tortured, black bagged this person who's had a 2990 02:43:30,720 --> 02:43:35,000 Speaker 8: green card for like almost two decades for a dismissed 2991 02:43:35,120 --> 02:43:38,160 Speaker 8: marijuana charge like ten years ago. This is like, you know, 2992 02:43:38,280 --> 02:43:42,080 Speaker 8: like a very white man like Fabian Schmidt, like this 2993 02:43:42,480 --> 02:43:45,400 Speaker 8: is this is super freaky stuff. 2994 02:43:46,040 --> 02:43:47,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, we should say that a lot of that stuff 2995 02:43:48,000 --> 02:43:51,520 Speaker 3: is not particularly unusual and nice attention lights being totally 2996 02:43:51,600 --> 02:43:54,840 Speaker 3: time not being given bettying, but like being shoved into 2997 02:43:54,840 --> 02:43:55,320 Speaker 3: a cold. 2998 02:43:55,200 --> 02:43:58,040 Speaker 8: Chowerities that was at the airport, they say, like like 2999 02:43:58,160 --> 02:44:00,480 Speaker 8: being being interrogated at the airport. 3000 02:44:01,040 --> 02:44:03,320 Speaker 3: This is a new one, and like being forced to. 3001 02:44:03,400 --> 02:44:07,240 Speaker 8: Like forcibly, like give up your green card during this 3002 02:44:07,440 --> 02:44:11,720 Speaker 8: like interrogation session at that very same airport. Like I 3003 02:44:11,800 --> 02:44:14,240 Speaker 8: think just maybe like a day or so later. A 3004 02:44:14,360 --> 02:44:19,280 Speaker 8: Lebanese doctor and professor at Brown University, Russia, Alweya, was 3005 02:44:19,400 --> 02:44:22,680 Speaker 8: deported this weekend after traveling to Beirut to visit family 3006 02:44:22,720 --> 02:44:27,240 Speaker 8: and attend the public funeral of Hassan Nashraala. Upon a 3007 02:44:27,360 --> 02:44:29,040 Speaker 8: return to the United States, she was detained at the 3008 02:44:29,080 --> 02:44:32,000 Speaker 8: Boston Airport, had her H one B visa revoked, and 3009 02:44:32,200 --> 02:44:35,680 Speaker 8: was deported on a plane to France on Friday, March fourteenth, 3010 02:44:36,040 --> 02:44:39,440 Speaker 8: before she could attend her in person hearing that following Monday. 3011 02:44:39,840 --> 02:44:44,240 Speaker 8: According to court documents, her deportation was prompted by deleted 3012 02:44:44,360 --> 02:44:47,920 Speaker 8: pictures on her phone of like Shia Muslim figures like 3013 02:44:48,800 --> 02:44:54,360 Speaker 8: Neshraala and the Ayatola, another very very frightening incident. In 3014 02:44:54,440 --> 02:44:58,320 Speaker 8: those documents, it's unclear how Customs and Border Protection was 3015 02:44:58,440 --> 02:45:01,000 Speaker 8: viewing deleted photos on her phone or like like like 3016 02:45:01,120 --> 02:45:02,760 Speaker 8: like open of her phone, right, because like, if you 3017 02:45:02,840 --> 02:45:04,760 Speaker 8: recently deleted a photo, it is still contained in your 3018 02:45:04,800 --> 02:45:08,320 Speaker 8: recently deleted folder, assuming you have like an iPhone or equivalent. 3019 02:45:08,720 --> 02:45:11,320 Speaker 8: But it's unknown how they like got into her phone, 3020 02:45:11,600 --> 02:45:13,879 Speaker 8: if she like let them look through it, or if 3021 02:45:13,879 --> 02:45:16,520 Speaker 8: they used one of like a many. 3022 02:45:16,840 --> 02:45:18,520 Speaker 3: Like phone breakaway see or whatever. 3023 02:45:19,480 --> 02:45:21,760 Speaker 8: Yeah, but I think it is interesting that this is 3024 02:45:21,879 --> 02:45:26,160 Speaker 8: at the same airport to you know, slightly related incidents. 3025 02:45:26,280 --> 02:45:29,640 Speaker 3: But yeah, we've seen that a lot with like in 3026 02:45:29,720 --> 02:45:32,520 Speaker 3: the similar cases people crossing the land border's Sandy Sidro 3027 02:45:32,640 --> 02:45:36,720 Speaker 3: both I think a Canadian and German citizen were both detained, 3028 02:45:37,080 --> 02:45:39,279 Speaker 3: which is said San Diego County. If it's not familiar, 3029 02:45:40,040 --> 02:45:43,199 Speaker 3: it seems like there's some kind of policy at certain 3030 02:45:43,240 --> 02:45:45,959 Speaker 3: border crossings or maybe like the person in chides, Yeah, 3031 02:45:45,959 --> 02:45:48,280 Speaker 3: I was saying, do this, you know, detain people at 3032 02:45:48,280 --> 02:45:50,360 Speaker 3: there's anything on their record at all. 3033 02:45:50,760 --> 02:45:52,640 Speaker 7: Well so so, and there's another case of this that's 3034 02:45:52,640 --> 02:45:54,840 Speaker 7: similar where a French researcher who to best of my 3035 02:45:54,920 --> 02:45:58,520 Speaker 7: knowledge is unnamed so far, I was randomly pulled aside 3036 02:45:58,560 --> 02:46:01,279 Speaker 7: for a stop at George Bush International Airport in Houston, 3037 02:46:01,600 --> 02:46:04,360 Speaker 7: which is sort of fitting for all of this George 3038 02:46:04,360 --> 02:46:06,880 Speaker 7: Bush has got to be fucking creaming his pants thinking 3039 02:46:06,920 --> 02:46:07,360 Speaker 7: about all this. 3040 02:46:07,400 --> 02:46:08,200 Speaker 3: Black bag and shit. 3041 02:46:08,879 --> 02:46:11,600 Speaker 7: But yeah, I was randomly pulled over and they found 3042 02:46:11,720 --> 02:46:14,760 Speaker 7: anti Trump texts on his phone and immediately deported him. 3043 02:46:14,800 --> 02:46:18,040 Speaker 7: This is a guy who was visiting the US, like 3044 02:46:18,080 --> 02:46:21,000 Speaker 7: I think, to go to a conference, and the border 3045 02:46:21,040 --> 02:46:24,160 Speaker 7: patrol is arguing that anti Trump texts are considered terrorism, 3046 02:46:24,320 --> 02:46:26,240 Speaker 7: which is great, or the text that they found are 3047 02:46:26,600 --> 02:46:28,320 Speaker 7: like could be like the anti Trump ness of it 3048 02:46:28,400 --> 02:46:32,400 Speaker 7: can be considered terroristic, so that's bad. There was yet 3049 02:46:32,440 --> 02:46:35,360 Speaker 7: another case, which is a slightly different one, which is 3050 02:46:36,200 --> 02:46:39,000 Speaker 7: Buttercon Surrey, who is a postoc at Georgetown who was 3051 02:46:39,040 --> 02:46:42,800 Speaker 7: detained and sent to an immigration facility, who's here teaching. 3052 02:46:42,879 --> 02:46:46,320 Speaker 7: He's a postdoc at Georgetown on a student visa who 3053 02:46:46,360 --> 02:46:49,080 Speaker 7: has been sent to an immigration facility based on basically 3054 02:46:49,120 --> 02:46:53,160 Speaker 7: a right wing panic about his wife, his wife's father 3055 02:46:53,360 --> 02:46:57,280 Speaker 7: being Hamas and because of this, he's been black bagged 3056 02:46:57,360 --> 02:47:00,520 Speaker 7: in a way very similar to Mak mckhalil. Yeah, now 3057 02:47:00,600 --> 02:47:03,880 Speaker 7: Georgetown is backing him on this, but this is you 3058 02:47:03,959 --> 02:47:06,680 Speaker 7: know this, this this is another one of these fucking 3059 02:47:06,760 --> 02:47:09,640 Speaker 7: blackpackings that they're just doing now with someone who is 3060 02:47:09,680 --> 02:47:11,680 Speaker 7: here on a student visa who has committed no crime, 3061 02:47:11,760 --> 02:47:14,480 Speaker 7: who Georgetown was like, has committed no crime. And again 3062 02:47:14,480 --> 02:47:15,960 Speaker 7: also if even if you've committed a crime, this is 3063 02:47:16,000 --> 02:47:18,960 Speaker 7: fucking horseship. But yeah, all of these things are just 3064 02:47:19,040 --> 02:47:22,680 Speaker 7: continuing to ramp up, and they're getting boulder and boulder. 3065 02:47:23,480 --> 02:47:24,160 Speaker 3: Thanks, Robert. 3066 02:47:24,200 --> 02:47:25,400 Speaker 8: Do you want to do you want to read a 3067 02:47:25,560 --> 02:47:29,800 Speaker 8: select paragraph or two from a from Khalil's first like 3068 02:47:29,879 --> 02:47:30,600 Speaker 8: public statement. 3069 02:47:31,800 --> 02:47:35,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he put out a letter a couple of 3070 02:47:35,240 --> 02:47:38,680 Speaker 2: days before we recorded this, and you should really read 3071 02:47:38,800 --> 02:47:42,160 Speaker 2: the whole thing if you just google Mahmood Khalil letter. 3072 02:47:42,640 --> 02:47:44,200 Speaker 2: I mean, I think the exact title is my name 3073 02:47:44,280 --> 02:47:48,000 Speaker 2: is Mahmood Khalil and I am a political prisoner, which 3074 02:47:48,080 --> 02:47:51,480 Speaker 2: is the first sentence of the letter. But I want 3075 02:47:51,520 --> 02:47:54,400 Speaker 2: to read this little bit of him talking about his 3076 02:47:54,640 --> 02:47:58,520 Speaker 2: arrest on March eighth, I was taken by DHS agents 3077 02:47:58,560 --> 02:48:00,959 Speaker 2: who refused to provide a warrant and accosted my wife 3078 02:48:01,040 --> 02:48:03,440 Speaker 2: and me as we returned from dinner. By now, the 3079 02:48:03,480 --> 02:48:05,600 Speaker 2: footage of that night has been made public. Before I 3080 02:48:05,680 --> 02:48:08,240 Speaker 2: knew it was happening, agents handcuffed and forced me into 3081 02:48:08,280 --> 02:48:11,000 Speaker 2: an unmarked car. At that moment, My only concern was 3082 02:48:11,040 --> 02:48:13,760 Speaker 2: for Newer's safety. I had no idea if she would 3083 02:48:13,760 --> 02:48:16,119 Speaker 2: be taken too, since the agents had threatened to arrest 3084 02:48:16,200 --> 02:48:19,080 Speaker 2: her for not leaving my side. DHS would not tell 3085 02:48:19,120 --> 02:48:21,280 Speaker 2: me anything for hours. I did not know the cause 3086 02:48:21,320 --> 02:48:23,920 Speaker 2: of my arrest or if I was facing immediate deportation. 3087 02:48:24,400 --> 02:48:26,800 Speaker 2: At twenty six Federal Plaza, I slept on the cold 3088 02:48:26,879 --> 02:48:29,680 Speaker 2: floor in the early morning hours. Agents transported me to 3089 02:48:29,760 --> 02:48:33,040 Speaker 2: another facility in Elizabeth, New Jersey. There, I slept on 3090 02:48:33,080 --> 02:48:35,760 Speaker 2: the ground and was refused a blanket despite my request. 3091 02:48:36,400 --> 02:48:39,280 Speaker 2: My arrest was a direct consequence of exercising my right 3092 02:48:39,360 --> 02:48:41,960 Speaker 2: to free speech as I advocated for a free Palestine 3093 02:48:42,000 --> 02:48:44,360 Speaker 2: and an end to the genocide in Gaza, which resumed 3094 02:48:44,400 --> 02:48:48,000 Speaker 2: in full force Monday night with January ceasefire. Now broken, 3095 02:48:48,120 --> 02:48:50,920 Speaker 2: parents in Gaza are once again cradling two small shrouds, 3096 02:48:50,959 --> 02:48:54,360 Speaker 2: and families are forced to waste starvation and displacement against bombs. 3097 02:48:54,680 --> 02:48:57,160 Speaker 2: It is our moral imperative to persist in the struggle 3098 02:48:57,200 --> 02:49:01,959 Speaker 2: for their complete freedom. And again I really recommend reading 3099 02:49:02,000 --> 02:49:06,000 Speaker 2: the whole thing. It's it's very good, but yeah. 3100 02:49:06,360 --> 02:49:11,520 Speaker 8: I get so particularly upset that Trump's admin uses like this, 3101 02:49:11,760 --> 02:49:16,320 Speaker 8: like vague anti semitism justification for for for some of 3102 02:49:16,400 --> 02:49:20,800 Speaker 8: these actions, at least because the head of Trump's anti 3103 02:49:20,879 --> 02:49:26,720 Speaker 8: Semitism task force just last week retweeted Patrick Casey, who 3104 02:49:26,840 --> 02:49:30,080 Speaker 8: is from the American Identity Movement, a leading alt right 3105 02:49:30,160 --> 02:49:33,640 Speaker 8: figure who was at Charlottesville, to quote Shane Burley. This 3106 02:49:33,800 --> 02:49:36,520 Speaker 8: tweet that was reposted by the head of this anti 3107 02:49:36,560 --> 02:49:40,039 Speaker 8: semitism task force claimed that quote, Trump has the ability 3108 02:49:40,120 --> 02:49:42,080 Speaker 8: to revoke someone's Jew card. 3109 02:49:42,200 --> 02:49:43,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely horrible. 3110 02:49:44,320 --> 02:49:49,400 Speaker 8: Are a serious here, It's unbelievable, unbelievable amounts of anti 3111 02:49:49,440 --> 02:49:54,039 Speaker 8: semitism spread by the person who leads the federal task 3112 02:49:54,160 --> 02:49:56,280 Speaker 8: force to combat anti Semitism. 3113 02:49:56,480 --> 02:49:56,720 Speaker 3: Great. 3114 02:49:57,040 --> 02:49:59,400 Speaker 7: Yeah, And going going back to Columbia for a second. 3115 02:49:59,400 --> 02:50:00,840 Speaker 7: One of the other things that has been happening is 3116 02:50:00,959 --> 02:50:04,279 Speaker 7: that Trump threatened Columbia with the loss of four hundred 3117 02:50:04,320 --> 02:50:06,800 Speaker 7: million dollars in government contracts unless they give in to 3118 02:50:07,040 --> 02:50:08,960 Speaker 7: a bunch of Trump's demands. So Trump wants them to 3119 02:50:09,040 --> 02:50:11,560 Speaker 7: ban masks on campuses, allow campus cops to do more 3120 02:50:11,640 --> 02:50:15,440 Speaker 7: violence against student protesters, and expel like protesters who occupy buildings. 3121 02:50:16,240 --> 02:50:18,360 Speaker 7: The president is supposed to get control of all discipline 3122 02:50:18,440 --> 02:50:21,240 Speaker 7: and can expel and suspend students, and they want to 3123 02:50:21,240 --> 02:50:23,640 Speaker 7: crack down student groups. They want and this is also 3124 02:50:23,800 --> 02:50:25,680 Speaker 7: a tie into the other thing. They want the IHR 3125 02:50:25,959 --> 02:50:30,760 Speaker 7: definition of antisemitism and like specifically, the Trump's like letter 3126 02:50:30,840 --> 02:50:34,200 Speaker 7: to them specifically says like classifying anti Zionism as antisemitism. 3127 02:50:34,959 --> 02:50:37,560 Speaker 7: And they want to put the Middle East, South Asian 3128 02:50:37,600 --> 02:50:40,800 Speaker 7: and African studies departments in academic receivership, which means stripping 3129 02:50:40,800 --> 02:50:42,600 Speaker 7: away power from the faculty and giving it to someone 3130 02:50:42,640 --> 02:50:45,640 Speaker 7: outside the Yeah, Columbia is about to give into these demands. 3131 02:50:45,760 --> 02:50:47,320 Speaker 7: It seems like they want to try to find another 3132 02:50:47,440 --> 02:50:49,680 Speaker 7: word other than academic receivership, but they're going to fucking 3133 02:50:49,760 --> 02:50:52,520 Speaker 7: do it. So and Trump have the legal authority to 3134 02:50:52,560 --> 02:50:54,280 Speaker 7: do this, No, obviously not. But you know, does he 3135 02:50:54,320 --> 02:50:56,040 Speaker 7: have the moral authority to do this? No obviously not, 3136 02:50:56,320 --> 02:50:57,480 Speaker 7: like this guy is, but. 3137 02:50:57,680 --> 02:50:59,879 Speaker 2: None of those are important. He as guys with guns. 3138 02:51:00,280 --> 02:51:02,320 Speaker 2: That's what it always comes down to. And the any 3139 02:51:02,360 --> 02:51:05,800 Speaker 2: one who forgets that is only hurting themselves. 3140 02:51:06,400 --> 02:51:08,800 Speaker 7: Like yeah, and so he's also doing this thing of 3141 02:51:08,800 --> 02:51:10,920 Speaker 7: like attempting basically to dismantle a bunch of the higher 3142 02:51:11,000 --> 02:51:13,760 Speaker 7: education institutions in this country unless they become just pure 3143 02:51:13,840 --> 02:51:16,080 Speaker 7: right wing sort of laboratories. And another example of this 3144 02:51:16,400 --> 02:51:19,440 Speaker 7: is as the news stories about Columbia, we're coming out 3145 02:51:19,600 --> 02:51:20,800 Speaker 7: like Columbia trying to take the deal. 3146 02:51:21,120 --> 02:51:21,720 Speaker 3: We're coming out. 3147 02:51:22,000 --> 02:51:24,080 Speaker 7: The University of Pennsylvania is good about to lose one 3148 02:51:24,120 --> 02:51:26,440 Speaker 7: hundred and seventy five million dollars of funding for allowing 3149 02:51:26,520 --> 02:51:30,400 Speaker 7: Leah Thomas, a trans swimmer, to swim for their college. 3150 02:51:31,280 --> 02:51:33,680 Speaker 7: So this is just going to be a giant sort 3151 02:51:33,680 --> 02:51:36,320 Speaker 7: of battering ram that Trump is going to use to 3152 02:51:37,520 --> 02:51:42,199 Speaker 7: just basically obliterate the education system and impose whatever unhinged 3153 02:51:42,280 --> 02:51:44,480 Speaker 7: right wing thing that he wants to impose. 3154 02:51:45,000 --> 02:51:47,560 Speaker 8: And we will talk more about his efforts to destroy 3155 02:51:47,640 --> 02:51:51,480 Speaker 8: the education system next week on our next episode of ED, 3156 02:51:52,200 --> 02:51:54,879 Speaker 8: as says he is continuing to prep an executive order 3157 02:51:54,959 --> 02:51:59,040 Speaker 8: to abolish the Department of Education. And there's plenty of 3158 02:51:59,040 --> 02:52:03,480 Speaker 8: other news, including the federal judge confrontations, that we will 3159 02:52:03,520 --> 02:52:07,080 Speaker 8: also report on next week. But before we leave today, 3160 02:52:07,440 --> 02:52:10,680 Speaker 8: Mia has a brief note on the bird flu. 3161 02:52:10,840 --> 02:52:11,320 Speaker 6: With Flitch. 3162 02:52:11,400 --> 02:52:13,840 Speaker 8: I'm sure will be fine. Frankly, I'm still eating eggs, 3163 02:52:13,920 --> 02:52:14,680 Speaker 8: but uh Mia. 3164 02:52:15,440 --> 02:52:17,960 Speaker 7: Yes, so as people there with the boyd flu. So 3165 02:52:18,440 --> 02:52:20,440 Speaker 7: the thing the thing about chickens is that they're dying 3166 02:52:20,480 --> 02:52:22,800 Speaker 7: from bird flu right now. This has killed an enormous 3167 02:52:22,840 --> 02:52:24,800 Speaker 7: number of chickens. This is part of why egg prices 3168 02:52:24,840 --> 02:52:27,280 Speaker 7: are so high. Now, this is a problem that a 3169 02:52:27,320 --> 02:52:29,040 Speaker 7: lot of countries have dealt with. China has dealt with 3170 02:52:29,120 --> 02:52:32,640 Speaker 7: this by just fucking vaccinating their chickens. The Biden administration 3171 02:52:32,760 --> 02:52:35,560 Speaker 7: refused to vaccinate chickens because it would cost money and 3172 02:52:35,640 --> 02:52:38,039 Speaker 7: because it might make it harder for us to export 3173 02:52:38,080 --> 02:52:38,680 Speaker 7: their chickens. 3174 02:52:39,560 --> 02:52:40,280 Speaker 3: So that was bad. 3175 02:52:40,800 --> 02:52:43,959 Speaker 7: RFK Junior literally just wants to let the bird flu 3176 02:52:44,120 --> 02:52:45,840 Speaker 7: rip and kill all the birds and thinks that the 3177 02:52:45,879 --> 02:52:49,240 Speaker 7: healthy birds will survive. And those healthy birds, yeah, yeah. 3178 02:52:49,120 --> 02:52:52,279 Speaker 3: He thinks immunity. 3179 02:52:52,320 --> 02:52:54,320 Speaker 7: He has a heard immediity guy for COVID because he's 3180 02:52:54,320 --> 02:52:56,879 Speaker 7: a human eugenesis he's also a chicken eu genesist. Now, 3181 02:52:57,440 --> 02:53:00,240 Speaker 7: I'm specifically doing this because I read multiple viral just 3182 02:53:00,280 --> 02:53:03,000 Speaker 7: reading about this or writing about this. I talked to virologists, 3183 02:53:03,000 --> 02:53:06,199 Speaker 7: and the virologists all basically said, if you were trying 3184 02:53:06,320 --> 02:53:10,960 Speaker 7: to design a way to make the bird flu like 3185 02:53:11,400 --> 02:53:13,360 Speaker 7: move like a mutate in such a way that it 3186 02:53:13,400 --> 02:53:15,280 Speaker 7: moves from birds to humans, this is what you would do. 3187 02:53:15,560 --> 02:53:19,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, great, so and again cool, the death rate of 3188 02:53:19,680 --> 02:53:24,840 Speaker 2: this thing is in a completely different category from fucking COVID. 3189 02:53:25,000 --> 02:53:29,600 Speaker 2: It makes COVID look like having a mild case of allergies, 3190 02:53:30,000 --> 02:53:36,359 Speaker 2: like staggeringly lethal and like it cannot overstate how disastrous 3191 02:53:36,440 --> 02:53:37,000 Speaker 2: this would be. 3192 02:53:37,280 --> 02:53:39,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and COVID code more than a million Americans, like 3193 02:53:40,000 --> 02:53:41,520 Speaker 3: fifteen case people have memory? 3194 02:53:41,560 --> 02:53:44,880 Speaker 2: Hold that yeah, right now, current rates when it has 3195 02:53:45,000 --> 02:53:48,240 Speaker 2: reached humans as about a fifty percent fatality rate. They 3196 02:53:48,280 --> 02:53:50,840 Speaker 2: thought initially that they were missing a lot of cases 3197 02:53:50,920 --> 02:53:53,320 Speaker 2: and that it was much lower, but like the current 3198 02:53:53,400 --> 02:53:56,920 Speaker 2: research points to the suggests that that is not the case, 3199 02:53:57,360 --> 02:54:00,880 Speaker 2: that it is actually somewhere in that range of lethality. 3200 02:54:01,520 --> 02:54:04,880 Speaker 8: Yes, I'm still eating my chicken tartar. I don't know 3201 02:54:04,920 --> 02:54:06,440 Speaker 8: why everyone's so worried about it. 3202 02:54:07,640 --> 02:54:08,160 Speaker 3: And again, we. 3203 02:54:09,840 --> 02:54:13,160 Speaker 2: Don't know that like the version that actually is able 3204 02:54:13,200 --> 02:54:16,120 Speaker 2: to jump from human to human after jumping from bird 3205 02:54:16,200 --> 02:54:19,160 Speaker 2: to human would be that lethal because that doesn't exist 3206 02:54:19,320 --> 02:54:19,760 Speaker 2: quite yet. 3207 02:54:19,959 --> 02:54:23,320 Speaker 3: Probably, Yeah, but this is how we find out, but 3208 02:54:23,720 --> 02:54:25,480 Speaker 3: we really don't want to find out. 3209 02:54:26,080 --> 02:54:28,360 Speaker 7: Yeah, I look, if you don't want to find out, 3210 02:54:28,400 --> 02:54:29,600 Speaker 7: we have to find a way to get our k 3211 02:54:29,760 --> 02:54:31,240 Speaker 7: junior out of that fucking office. 3212 02:54:31,720 --> 02:54:35,080 Speaker 2: Like again, I think if we we really need to 3213 02:54:35,160 --> 02:54:37,840 Speaker 2: have a lot of different farmers set up photo ops 3214 02:54:37,879 --> 02:54:40,320 Speaker 2: with him where he is just covered in birds. We 3215 02:54:40,440 --> 02:54:43,760 Speaker 2: need to have that man in constant physical contact with chicken. 3216 02:54:43,800 --> 02:54:46,520 Speaker 2: It would do it and the problem will eventually solve it. 3217 02:54:46,800 --> 02:54:49,000 Speaker 2: We could convince him to eat raw chicken. We could 3218 02:54:49,040 --> 02:54:52,720 Speaker 2: definitely do it. Sure, yes, absolutely, raw would eat them, 3219 02:54:53,160 --> 02:54:56,400 Speaker 2: cuddle them, sleep with them at night, just kind of 3220 02:54:56,560 --> 02:54:58,199 Speaker 2: stand on a pile of their corpses. 3221 02:54:58,360 --> 02:55:00,840 Speaker 3: All right, all right, I'm if you are a chicken, 3222 02:55:01,480 --> 02:55:04,039 Speaker 3: or you know a chicken, or you have anything else 3223 02:55:04,160 --> 02:55:05,920 Speaker 3: you would like to share with us, you can do 3224 02:55:06,040 --> 02:55:08,120 Speaker 3: so well, not anything else. You should be related to 3225 02:55:08,160 --> 02:55:10,920 Speaker 3: the news and things that we can report on. You 3226 02:55:11,040 --> 02:55:14,320 Speaker 3: can send it to cool Zone tips at proton dot 3227 02:55:14,440 --> 02:55:18,080 Speaker 3: me and that's only encrypted if you also use encryption 3228 02:55:18,240 --> 02:55:20,760 Speaker 3: to send the message then to end. Yeah, it's a 3229 02:55:21,040 --> 02:55:24,400 Speaker 3: proton manaddress. That means, yeah, you have to send from 3230 02:55:24,520 --> 02:55:28,080 Speaker 3: encrypted to encrypted. It still doesn't mean it's it's perfectly safe. 3231 02:55:28,120 --> 02:55:31,560 Speaker 3: It just means it's encrypted. So send what do you 3232 02:55:31,680 --> 02:55:34,760 Speaker 3: think you can send over an email? That is that way? 3233 02:55:35,360 --> 02:55:37,400 Speaker 6: We reported the news. We reported the news. 3234 02:55:42,560 --> 02:55:45,720 Speaker 2: Hey, we'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week 3235 02:55:45,800 --> 02:55:47,680 Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe. 3236 02:55:48,480 --> 02:55:50,920 Speaker 10: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3237 02:55:51,160 --> 02:55:54,160 Speaker 10: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3238 02:55:54,280 --> 02:55:56,800 Speaker 10: cool Zonemedia dot com or check us out. From the 3239 02:55:56,840 --> 02:56:00,760 Speaker 10: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, 3240 02:56:01,240 --> 02:56:03,120 Speaker 10: you can now find sources for It Could Happen Here, 3241 02:56:03,200 --> 02:56:06,119 Speaker 10: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.