1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's podcast featuring conversations with industry 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, Managing 3 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: editor of Television for Variety, and today my guest in 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: New York is Lowell Peterson, Executive director of the Writer's 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: Guild of America East. Lowell is in his tenth year 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: of running the guild. He has revved up the organization 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: with a busy agenda that includes lobbying hard for a 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: diversity production tax credit in New York State. On his watch, 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: the w J East has made major strides in organizing 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: among digital media outlets. In this interview, he talks about 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: how writers have faced some financial hardships even with so 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: much work available in these peak TV times. He also 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: gives some insight into the effort underway with the guild's 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: West Coast cousin, the w g A West, to negotiate 15 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: new rules of the business relationship between writers and their 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: talent agents. Lowell Peterson, Executive Director of the w J East, 17 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: thank you so much for stopping by. Thanks for having me. 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: It's great to see you again. Um it's been a 19 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: very busy time for the Writer's Guild East in the 20 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: last last couple of years, but even just in the 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: last six months, you have had no shortage of announcement 22 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: about organizing about act legislative activities that that the union 23 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: has been involved in. UM. I know one of the 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: big things on your plate right now is a diversity 25 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: tax credit that you and other organizations are trying to 26 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: get past in New York State. That would that would 27 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: expand the production tax credit system in New York State, 28 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: which is very generous and has been huge in bringing 29 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: so much production to the Empire State. It would allow 30 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: employers who demonstrate a commitment to diversity in hiring at 31 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: all levels of a production to take advantage of a 32 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: diversity tax credit. And it almost got through the legislature 33 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: earlier this year but was vetoed by the governor. Can 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: you tell us what the status of that legislation is. Yes, well, 35 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: New York and New Jersey sort of have competing approaches 36 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: h the credit in that we pushed to New York 37 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: and as you say it, it it passed actually last 38 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: session and the government vetoed it and we're coming back 39 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: for more. The legislatures out of session until January, but 40 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: we've already been having meetings. Really would build on the 41 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: success of the production tax credit, which has brought just 42 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: enormous and numbers of jobs to New York. I mean, 43 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: New York was a waste land for production for many years. 44 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: TV sort of started here and then all moved west, 45 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: and if you were an actor, or photographer, or a 46 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: sound person or you name it, you really couldn't make 47 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: a living in New York. You would just scramble jobs together. 48 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: And the production tax credit changed everything. It's not one 49 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: of the biggest and most uh quickly growing industries in 50 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: the entire state, maybe in the entire East Coast, and 51 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: it's all because of the tax credits. So we said, 52 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: why don't we build on that successful model and apply 53 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: it to diversity, because we all know that there's a 54 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: tremendous lack of diversity in the TV and movie business. 55 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: So the credit that we got through the legislature, we 56 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: hope to get through again, we need to get the 57 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: governor support this time. Would apply the same rules, but 58 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: it would apply to companies that hired women or people 59 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: of color to write or direct TV in New York. 60 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: TV we thought was the most appropriate thing because writing 61 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: and directing films tends to be unique, you know, there 62 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: are other factors that go in. But with a TV show, 63 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: you have a writer's room, sometimes ten fifteen writers who 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: break the story and create the characters and work for 65 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: six eight months at a time, and directors have to 66 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: come in for every episode. So this seemed to be 67 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: the sweet spot. Uh. And we got a lot of allies. 68 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: We worked closely with the Director's Guild of America on this. 69 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: We we got legislative sponsors. All of the other entertainment 70 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: unions supported the legislation, still do. The f l C, 71 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: i OH supports it. We had a lot of advocacy 72 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: groups like New York Women in Film and Television, And 73 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: it made sense, you know, because if you have a problem, 74 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: which the industry does, I think we all acknowledge it. 75 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: We have a tremendous lack of diversity that not just 76 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: on screen, but behind the camera. Storytelling is not as 77 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: diverse as audiences. So we need to fix it. We 78 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: need to fix it as a matter of social justice. 79 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: But also, you know, because in the longer, in the 80 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: industry can't can't prosper if it doesn't resemble the society 81 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: that it's making stories for. So that's what we hope 82 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: to get to accomplish. New Jersey is taking a slightly 83 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: different approach. They just added a new tax incentive, uh, 84 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: including the diversity component that you were describing. We're very 85 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: enthusiastic about that. It covers writers. We hope to get 86 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: some writer's rooms in New Jersey. So things are looking 87 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: up and it but it was vetoed by Governor Cuomo 88 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: because because he said it was unfunded. Yeah, it um, 89 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: it was unfunded. We tried to get him to put 90 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: it in his budget and he didn't do it. So 91 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: it was a little a little like anyway it was. 92 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: It was funny because he didn't he didn't fund he 93 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: wouldn't fund it, and then he vetoed it because it 94 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't be funded. It was ironic. We're not really sure 95 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: what the politics of the governor's decision were. He certainly 96 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: has been a big support of the industry generally speaking. Yeah, 97 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: that's why it was so surprising. Yeah, we I mean, 98 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: we we were up until literally midnight on the last 99 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: day that he had to veto. He didn't do anything 100 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: until fifteen minutes to twelve, and then we got the 101 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: veto message and you know, I don't know. We're still 102 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: trying to unpack the politics of it. Who is actually 103 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: behind killing it? Because it's hard to believe that the 104 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: governor himself has a has an anti diversity agenda. That's 105 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: just not who he is politically, you know, So we 106 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: hope to address that. You know, there were there there 107 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: were some technical issues that we needed to address, and 108 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: we've done that and so we you know, we're gonna 109 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: keep plugging and it's got a lot of support, and 110 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: it'll it'll maintain support for the overall industry because you know, 111 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: you need legislators to vote for these overall tax credits. 112 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: This is a big subsidy of the entertainment industry. Right 113 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: every year they became, you know, every year they come 114 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: up for review and there's always a certain amount of debate. 115 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: It's hard. It's hard to look around New York State 116 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: and say that this production tax credit credit has hasn't 117 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: been worth it. Oh, it's been tremendously worth it. I 118 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: think there's gonna be some some new research coming down 119 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: the pipeline that shows just how many jobs it's created. 120 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: And it's been great, but it hasn't moved the Needle University. 121 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: So the legislators say, look, we love supporting jobs, but 122 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: we look around and it doesn't reflect our communities. You know, 123 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: Legislators from Upper Manhattan or the Bronx or Queens or 124 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,119 Speaker 1: upstate New York look around and say, well, wait a minute, 125 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: this is great, we love it, but when is this 126 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: industry going to fix a problem? Why don't we fix 127 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: the problem. I think that's why we're able to get 128 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: it passed through the both the Assembly and the Senate, 129 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: because it made a lot of sense to the folks 130 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: whose constituents are looking at TV and saying, m we 131 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: could do better. Having studied this issue, like what what 132 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: did you What is the source of the continuing source 133 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: of the problem of getting people into the pool of potential, 134 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: of of potential employment in film and TV? Is it 135 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: really just that they that those first avenues of getting 136 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: into the business are still closed to a lot of 137 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: black and brown people absolutely, and women both all three 138 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: all of the above. It's it's an informal, higher kind 139 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: of place. It's um a lot of industry has had 140 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: these problems. Back in the sixties. You know, you didn't 141 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: get hired because of any formal process. You got hired 142 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: because of who you knew, And the same is true 143 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: across the entertainment industry. People hire people they've worked with, 144 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: they went to college with, they did you know a 145 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: magazine in college with whatever, and that tends to reinforce 146 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: the current employment patterns. It's not I don't think it's 147 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: it's venal. I don't think there's conscious racism or conscious 148 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: misogyny either. Might be some, Uh, there might be certainly 149 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: some unconscious, but I think it's mostly if you get 150 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: your job through networks. Um, the networks are just going 151 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: to reproduce themselves. It's not a lack of talent either. 152 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: It's interesting. We did a survey of our of our 153 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: TV and movie writer members and said, what do you 154 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: think it is anonymous survey, Uh, is it a lack 155 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: of talent or is it a lack of opportunity? And 156 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly remembers said it's a lack of opportunity. There's plenty 157 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: of talent. There's lots of bright, diverse playwrights and novelists 158 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: and aspiring writers. They're just you know, when you get 159 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: to the level of actually making a living writing, especially 160 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: for TV, it's a hard door to get through. And went, yeah, 161 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: once you're through. Of course, you've got to have the chops. 162 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: You've gotta be able to create characters and good stories 163 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: and do it on time. But it's getting that first 164 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: couple of wrongs that's really hard. And then once you 165 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: go up the ladder, of course, you confront a production 166 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: system where people tend to produce shows from people that 167 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: have a track record. So this is why we thought 168 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: that really putting money at the part of the point 169 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: of higher was going to be important. We don't. We 170 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: also do training with the City of New York has 171 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: funded a diversity training program for us. We're about to 172 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: hopefully do it again. Um. It's been tremendously successful. Um. 173 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: But ultimately it's having access to the decision makers at 174 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: the terms of who hires at the writing and directing level, 175 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: in terms of who green light series, in terms of 176 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: who decides how many episodes to to order. You know, 177 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: these these the the industry sort of top to bottom 178 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: needs to pay more attention to this stuff because it's uh, 179 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: it's reflexes that are ingrained, and we have to figure 180 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: out mechanisms to overcome that. At a time when you know, 181 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: television can't get enough qualified showrunners and and you know, 182 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: distinctive writing. There's so much demand for shows, it would 183 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: seem like it behoove everybody to do whatever you can 184 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: to expand the entire again, the entire talent pool that 185 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: can be drawn from. Yeah, I agree, And I'll tell 186 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: you there used to be a sort of barely stated 187 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: premise that only shows that are dominantly white guys would 188 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: actually people would only watch those shows. Nobody really wanted 189 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: to diverse cast, diverse stories more uh you know, less 190 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: suburban more urban themes. It's that's just not true, you know, 191 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: And I think we've seen that. We've certainly seen it 192 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: in the film side, and I think we're seeing increasingly 193 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: in TV. There's there's lots of audience out there for 194 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: non traditional stories, stories that are more diverse in origin 195 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: and economics and different classes are representative's. And also I 196 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: think as we see that UM series that had that 197 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: don't have to appeal to everybody in America at nine 198 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: o'clock on Friday night. Those are great series, But there's 199 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: room for smaller shows and that I think will help 200 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: as well. You know, you can take a chance on 201 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: an eight episode or a twelve episode show that maybe 202 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: you wouldn't for a full network primetime season, right, and 203 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: you have to worry about will it will it sell 204 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: in Germany and will it sell in you know, all 205 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: around the world that that used to be it was 206 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: It was probably never true, but there used to be 207 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: that maxim that you know, international sales also helped to 208 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: kind of reinforce that sort of white majority approach to 209 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: television programming. And as we know, as just about everything 210 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: else about the industry, all of those rules are out 211 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: the window and can be proven to be demonstrably false. 212 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, the numbers are not lying. It's just thankfully 213 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: people are taking are willing to give it a shot 214 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: and succeed. So when the legislatures back in session in January, 215 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: you'll be that you and the other guilds and activists 216 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: will be in there fighting again for the diversity. We 217 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: will and we just pay getting support again. It's it's 218 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 1: history is with us on this one. We just have 219 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: to make sure the votes are there and the funding yes, right, 220 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: and the governor can funded yea. Um let's talk about 221 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: another complicated issue that's that's in the in the ether 222 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: right now for writers. UM. I know that the w 223 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: g A East and the w j A West. Your 224 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: counterparts on the West coast are talking right now, are 225 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: in the middle of really trying to sort out some 226 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: complicated issue with the the advocacy group for Talent Agencies, 227 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: the Association of Talent Agents, And there's a lot of 228 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: decades old rules that you would like to see revised. 229 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: Two have a little more sort of governance on how 230 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 1: talent agents that represent writers, you know, what the rules 231 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: of the road for those companies in terms of them 232 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: being also active on the production side. As we are 233 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: seeing some of the larger agencies are starting to diversify 234 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: and get sort of directly into production, which has for 235 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: a long time been considered, you know, a big conflict 236 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: of interest for an agent to also be involved on 237 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: the production side. Can you talk about sort of the 238 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: state of play in that process right now? Yes, Well, 239 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,239 Speaker 1: so we have a franchise agreement with with the agents, 240 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: both the East and the West parties to that agreement. 241 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: It was last negotiated in the gerald Ford administration. When 242 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: I talked to members about that, they all sort of grown. 243 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: It's true, nobody has tried to renegotiate these terms for 244 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: generations now, so that by itself means we we had 245 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: to do something. UM. There was a process in that 246 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: agreement that gave us the opportunity to give a notice 247 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: determination and then propose changes. So we've done that, and 248 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: that we did that in April. I haven't really had 249 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: I wish I could tell you we've had all kinds 250 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: of robust conversations. It's it's a little early for that, 251 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: but we did make some proposals. UM. It is very 252 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: popular with our members. I talked to a lot of 253 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: members about it. They think, UM, everybody has a different 254 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: view of what their own agents and agencies in general. 255 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: Some people love their agents, some people hate their agents. 256 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: Some people wish they knew who their agents really were, 257 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: you know. So it's it's like anything else. There's plenty 258 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: of agent jokes around around in the industry. But fundamentally, 259 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: the conflict of interesting is something that has concerned us. UM. 260 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: There are ways in which the agencies sit on the 261 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: other side of the table, and and our concern is 262 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: that that creates a disincentive for the agencies to actually 263 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: fight for our members. That's really fundamentally what it's about. Now. 264 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: What the solution is to that problem, I don't know, 265 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: you know, We have a lot of ideas, we have 266 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: a lot of proposals, um, but that it's um. You know, 267 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: the kinds of things that have developed over the years 268 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: in the agency world would never be allowed to develop 269 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: in the attorney world or what have you. Know. You 270 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: you can't represent both sides of a transaction. You can't 271 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: have your economic interests aligned with the other side. Which 272 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: we're concerned is a product of some of the deals 273 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: that some of the agencies have been making. So we 274 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: need to really learn more details about how those arrangements 275 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: work producing being producers. Clearly, if you're hiring our members, 276 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: you can't then negotiate with yourself, you know. Um, the 277 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: the guilds, the Writers Guild Least and the Riters Guild West. 278 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: We set minimum terms. We set the minimum pay terms 279 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: for initial compensation, residuals, benefits. What the agents are supposed 280 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: to do, in addition to I don't know, uh, lubricating 281 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: the gears so that people get more jobs. They're supposed 282 00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: to negotiate above minimum. What we have seen, Yeah, it's 283 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: it's going down. I mean people are getting paid increasingly 284 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: sort of what we said. And that's I mean, we 285 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: I think our minimums are good, but historically, particularly if 286 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: you've been in the industry for a while, in order 287 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: to pay your mortgage and put shoes on your kid's feet, 288 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: you need to make above minimum um and that has 289 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: been decreasingly true and that's been the agents job. So 290 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: we we do the math. We say, well, look, we 291 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: know that the agencies are relying more and more on 292 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: other deals, deals where they're not making more money by 293 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: getting more money for our members. And we see above 294 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: minimum compensation declining. What does that mean? Well, so I 295 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: don't I don't have any insight story for you, but 296 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: we are, we are in that process. We've had lots 297 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: of discussions with our members. We do have uh, we've 298 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: requested modifications and you know, stay tuned. Um. Yeah, Do 299 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: you feel like it's that there's a there's a pathway 300 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: to a real dialogue there or you feel like you're 301 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: getting a lot of opposition from the guilds in terms 302 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: of approach unpacking this issue. Oh, I don't. I think 303 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: it's too early to say. I think it's too early 304 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: to say. You know, I think you know the thing is, it's, uh, 305 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: it's a negotiation hasn't started really in earnest um, so, 306 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: we just don't know. The one thing is it's interesting 307 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: is that since no one has done it, at least 308 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: on the writer's side since the gerald Ford administration. It's 309 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: it's you know, when we sit down with the AMPTP 310 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: to negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement, or I sit 311 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: down to the digital companies or CBS News, you know, 312 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: we sort of have an idea of the rhythm and 313 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: what's possible, what's not possible, what the leverage points are, 314 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: what they aren't. So we'll see, you know, we'll see 315 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: how how similar that is. Uh, but it is it 316 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: is something that we take seriously in our members take 317 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: seriously and uh I'm sure, I'm sure the agencies take 318 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: it seriously. I don't. I can't speak for them at all, 319 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: but it is uh A, it is a big business. 320 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: It is a business that has changed tremendously since so 321 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: the day when nobody wanted to come to New York 322 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: to film a TV show exactly exactly in fact it 323 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: was there was there was still a radio business in 324 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: New York then, which are still is a little bit. 325 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's completely different now and we need to 326 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: keep and look, agencies are they're acting in their own 327 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: rational interest. We get that they're they're going into different 328 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: different areas, are going outside of entertainment altogether. How how 329 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: does that impact them? I don't know. It's I mean, 330 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: it's it's you know, I mean this, you could say 331 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: this every day now that we wake up. I mean, 332 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: it is a very interesting and very like fast moving 333 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: time in the industry. And from the agency's perspective, it's 334 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: a you know there, they have had a lot of 335 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: changes just in there in there, you know, in their 336 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: in their basic revenue base. And I think they see 337 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: it as a as a diversification play and that they're 338 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: that they are different components of a single company, but 339 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: very different entities. But I think the gray, the gray 340 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: areas there are probably the areas of concern. Yeah. Yeah. 341 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: And of course, in an ideal world, which we labor 342 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: movement like to aspire towards, your only interest is making 343 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: sure that your client gets the maximum possible value from 344 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: the project. And that's uh, that's the world we would 345 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: love to inhabit. We'll see, it's not the world I 346 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: think that people inhabit right now. And we have people 347 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: who have agents and managers and attorneys and it's all 348 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: coming out of their pockets. That's a lot of percents. Yeah, 349 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: twenty five if you had it all up, or or 350 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: not if there's a package involved. But that's another that's 351 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: a whole other kettle off. But it is, I mean 352 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: to that point, it is. It is a kind of 353 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: a best of times. I won't say worst of times, 354 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: but it is. It is not although there are a 355 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: gazillion shows and a lot of demand there that all 356 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: of that, all of that production has kind of had 357 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: a an effect of really creating a lot of you know, 358 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: very very top echelon people, people you know, like the 359 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy's of the world, commanding nine figure deals, and 360 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: then a lot of pressure on the on the kind 361 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: of the great middle of people that do a lot 362 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: of the day to day you know, the grunt work, 363 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: if you will, of writing that there has been you know, 364 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: we heard that a year ago when when both guilds 365 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: were very you know, adamant about negotiating some new terms 366 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: in the w j's overall master Agreement that covers most 367 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, film and television production. Um, and you were 368 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: successful in getting some in really moving the studios as 369 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: a you know, I have a long time observer of 370 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: guild negotiations. You did. You were able to achieve far 371 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: more than I thought you would in this negotiation in 372 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: terms of having the networks and studios address the issues 373 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: that writers are facing. Yes, there's more work than ever, 374 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: but it's but now you have to have three and 375 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: sometimes four jobs in a year where you used to 376 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: have one that would pay you a you know, that 377 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: would pay you a good living. Again, a high class 378 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: problem for a high class industry, but a real, real problem. Nonetheless, 379 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: we actually had to address that in to Negotia Asians. 380 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: The fundamentally the change in the production model or the 381 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,479 Speaker 1: distribution model, whatever it used to be, and a lot 382 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: of our terms were set up as if everybody was 383 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: still doing full season network prime time shows, meaning a 384 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: twenty two or twenty four episode run from a September 385 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: to May season that you that really ran on a 386 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: very strict calendar. That's not the world we live in anymore. 387 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: It's not. And there, as you say, there are many 388 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: more opportunities because there are many more shows, but a 389 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: lot of them are a lot shorter, so that you 390 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: don't work as long, or or sometimes you don't work 391 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: as long. You don't get paid as long and that's 392 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 1: what we had to deal with last year. A lot 393 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: of the economic deals were UM took notice of the 394 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: fact that these were short order seasons, not as many 395 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: episodes episodes, but a lot of people were still working 396 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: a long time and they were not getting paid appropriates. 397 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: We had to address that last time, and in two 398 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen we had to address address the fact a 399 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: lot of people were being held after the into the 400 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: series so that they would they couldn't apply their trade, 401 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: they couldn't actually go to another by an exclusive option 402 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: in the contract. So we met. We made some real 403 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: progress in that. So both of those negotiations I think 404 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: addressed sort of the change in how TV has made 405 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: from the traditional long series, long seasons to shorter seasons. 406 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: And it's it's been good too. We haven't done enough, 407 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: we have to do more, but it's we addressed structural 408 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: issues in the industry and I think that's been good 409 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: for our members. And the feedback you've had from members 410 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: is that it has made a difference now that it's 411 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: been a little more than the year that that contract. Yeah, 412 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: well the seventeen stuff not didn't it didn't all kick 413 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: in because a lot of seasons were already underway covered 414 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: future shows. Yeah, but it's so far it looks good. 415 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: We're hearing that, we're hearing. Um, I'm sure we're gonna 416 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: need to make some tweaks and both. Uh. And we 417 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: did make a tweak in the in the short seasons 418 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: thing uh last time. So, but I think we made 419 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: we set the foundation for real progress. At the risk 420 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: of sounding Pollyanna ish, would you say that in the 421 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: negotiation that you that there was a real give and 422 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: take in terms of as you, as the guilds put 423 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: the issues on the table, to the the to the AMPTP, 424 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: which represents the networks and studios. You know, it sounded 425 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 1: like at the very least they were listening. Yeah. I 426 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: think that's right. I think that's right. I mean, as 427 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: a as a union negotiator, Um, it's important to keep 428 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: both dimensions in mind. One is rationality, give and take reason, 429 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: careful argumentation. The other one is frankly leverage, you know, 430 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: and they're both important if you think that the only 431 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: thing you need to do to make gains is to 432 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: beat the other side over the head, which we sort 433 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: of did with a big extract authorization vote. You're probably 434 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: not going to get that much. On the other hand, 435 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: if you think you can just go in in reason 436 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: and you don't have any power behind it, you probably 437 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: won't get much either. The last year both came together. 438 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: We had we had a member ship that was UM 439 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: inspired both on this issue and also on changes we 440 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 1: needed to make to show up our health fund. Both 441 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: of both were critical, and we also, yeah, I think 442 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: we had a compelling case. You know, we looked at 443 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: the numbers and we said, look, you've changed your model. 444 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: We need to change the compensation model in these particular ways. 445 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, there was a there was a 446 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 1: good give and take, and it was backed up by 447 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: by some some muscle. Real progress is always measured in inches. UM. 448 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: And speaking of negotiating and organizing, you've had the East 449 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: has had a slew of UM organizing successes. You've you've 450 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: been doing a lot of New York based digital or 451 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: East Coast based digital media firms UM a little outside 452 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: of the what you would consider the traditional film and television, 453 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: scripted or news writer. UM. Can you talk about the 454 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: reception that you've had at some of the places that 455 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: you've organized, like vox Um, some of the other companies 456 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: that you've been successful with. It's been tremendous. We have 457 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: had in more miss success in digital digital native news. 458 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: We got into it partly because it is adjacent to 459 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: our broadcast news membership, but you're right, it's not identical 460 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: to it. A lot of these places have a lot 461 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: of video. Most of them would like to do more 462 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: video news. Um Facebook is making that a little difficult. 463 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: But the response we've been getting from the from the 464 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: journalists who work at these places. Vox Vice, we we 465 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: have the TV and digital side Advice now, Viceland, the 466 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: HBO Show, uh, Huffington's Post, Gizmoto Media Group, Think Progress. 467 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: We're where we've We've achieved several really good first contracts, 468 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: major wage gains. Were at the table with six or 469 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: eight more. Right now we represent thirteen to fifteen hundred 470 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: of these folks right now, when we represented a small 471 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: handful three years ago, more three and a half years ago, 472 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: what we we didn't know what we would encounter. It's 473 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: a different workforce. It's not a unionized industry. These are 474 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: not people who came in thinking I'm gonna have a 475 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: union job of this. This is this is the way 476 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: of the world. They came in thinking though this is 477 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: not a union job. They tend to skew younger. A 478 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: lot of quote unquote millennials. The rap on quote unquote 479 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: millennials is always, Oh, they don't care about anybody but themselves. 480 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: They're apathetic, they're narcissistic, they don't want to get involved, 481 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: totally false, very interested in being involved. UM. Not a 482 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: lot of labor movement experience, but environmentalism, feminism, l g B, 483 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: t Q. There's been a lot of sort of spirit 484 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: of action UM and we by the way, we started 485 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: having these successes before the presidential election, but that has 486 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: also inspired people to get active. It's like prairie fire. 487 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's we. We we have to select targets. 488 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: You know, there are so many folks that so many 489 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: companies that come to us and say, we think collective 490 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: bargaining can work for us. We think we can make 491 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: real gains and money and benefits. We think, more importantly, 492 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: we can have a real voice on the job. A 493 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: lot of these places are have a sort of a 494 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: startup mentality. Whatever whim happens to come through management's head 495 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: one day gets implemented. In the next week. Something changes. UM. 496 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: People don't like that. People like to have a voice, 497 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: they want to have rules, they want to have transparency. 498 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: So it's been great. I mean, we've been tremendously successful. 499 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: We've managed to win voluntary recognition covering almost people, and 500 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: great contracts um covering a lot of people. And the 501 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: thing it's interesting is this group of folks really demand engagement. 502 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: They don't. They don't say, well, well, negotiate my contract 503 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: and leave me alone for three years. They want to 504 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: be involved in the life of the union throughout. So 505 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: it's been really good. We have experienced with that, you know, 506 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,239 Speaker 1: because our TV movie are writers are freelancers. It's not 507 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: like everybody has the same job and they just they 508 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: they don't hear from the union. In order to represent 509 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: freelance TV and movie writers and sdo D writers, you know, 510 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: we have to be affirmative. We have to reach out 511 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: and figure out ways to make sure that they come 512 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,479 Speaker 1: to the union office or come to programs or you know, 513 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: build solidarity. So that experience I think helped us organized 514 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: this traditionally non union sector and it's been amazingly successful. 515 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: So that's a big membership boost for you imagine would 516 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: change some of the some of the sort of profile 517 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: of the union. Yeah, it has, although I'll tell you 518 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: with the with the advent of peak TV, our TV 519 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: membership has grown almost as much in the same period. Yeah, 520 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: a lot more people working on a lot of shows. So, uh, 521 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: the freelance TV side and movie side movie has been 522 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 1: sort of stable. It's that's an interesting industry with its 523 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: own dynamics, but it's sort of kept pace. But yeah, 524 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: we have grown a lot. We've grown about in the 525 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: last three five years. I'd say that's incredible. What is 526 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: your total membership now it's over. Yeah, Well, we have 527 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: a couple of contracts we have to bring in. You 528 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: can't join the union until you're covered by a contract 529 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: that's signed, so we have a few of those we 530 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: have to line but will be well over five thousand. 531 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: In fact, we'll be probably at six thousand once we 532 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: finish up the next rounder negotiation. So it's it doesn't 533 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: sound like much, but in this industry in the East Coast, 534 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: it's a lot for this country to have any union 535 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: that could say that they have had membership grow by 536 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: that's that's pretty incredible in these times. Yeah, it's inspiring. 537 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: A lot of people are coming to work for the 538 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: union saying wow, what do you guys, what's your secret sauce? 539 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: But it's it's hard work. You know. We have really 540 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: good organizers, We have really good negotiators, really good communicators. 541 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: We have programs that you know, bring people in. We 542 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: have people coming to our screenings and our panel discussions. 543 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: A lot of the issues that are important to us 544 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: are important to new members. The diversity initiatives we talked about, 545 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: and we have many more people really care about that stuff. 546 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: They say, oh, this is a union that that walks 547 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: the walk. It doesn't just talk to talk. So we'll 548 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,479 Speaker 1: have a diversity event and people from all of our 549 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: genres will be there. People well will write to their 550 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: assembly people in Albany from digital shop and broadcast shops 551 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: and TV shows and movies, and it's it's a good 552 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: mix also in New York because we're not really a 553 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: company town and it's not like everybody works for Hollywood. 554 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: People do a lot of different things and the Union 555 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: is a little bit more central therefore to their creative lives. 556 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that some of these twenty something's probably have 557 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: a spec script or two in their drawer, and joining 558 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: the Union is a great networking and a just a 559 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: great facilitator to career development. Yeah, and also comedy. You know, 560 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: we just organized the Onion We had organized their TV 561 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: show a few years ago, and a lot of those 562 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: folks are in comedy Variety late night in New York now, 563 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: So there's there's definitely room for satirists as well as sure, 564 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: and then a lot of people do go from journalism 565 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: to script. It it's uh, it's that that insight, that incisiveness, 566 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: that analysis. You know, some of the biggest well movie 567 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: writers started as journalists. It's it's a good set of 568 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: skills to have and they get they get to rub 569 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: elbows with people who've been doing it for a while 570 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: and you' you have nice events. I've been to. I've 571 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: been to a bunch of them. They're really nice screenings. Um. 572 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: You you're now in your tenth year as the executive 573 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: director of the East, and be curious if you can 574 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: remember when you when you first came into this industry, 575 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: what your perceptions were. Did it surprise you that there, 576 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: I mean, Hollywood, it's always I've always noted that Hollywood 577 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: is really it has always embraced its unions, it's guilds, 578 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: it's guilds are almost it's almost like, you know, Hollywood 579 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: does have a bit of a velvet rope complex, and 580 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: the unions are that step. Like you can call yourself 581 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: a writer or a director, but if you don't have 582 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: a w j A card, you don't have a DJA 583 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: A card. You know, it means you're it means you're 584 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: taken seriously, it's it means you're in the club. Did 585 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: that dynamic? Did that surprise you when you took this job? Well, 586 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: I anticipated it. There are some other unions that have that, 587 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: you know, in the on the skilled trade side. But 588 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: I think what's I think you're right. I think what's 589 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: um What's important is that it's it is a guild 590 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: as well as a union, and it is a mark 591 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: of professional commitment and accomplishment. And we have a lot 592 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: of members of the Writer's Guild of America East who 593 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: are at a point in their career where they're not 594 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: working for any minimum that we negotiate their way above it, 595 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: and yet they still remain devoted to the union. They 596 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: help us with organizing, they help us do lobbying. They 597 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: help us figure out how to build pressure, they figure 598 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: out how to bring people into the union, They mentor 599 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: they talk to people, they help people with their careers. 600 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, it is. It is a we like to 601 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: call ourselves the center of people's professional and creative lives, 602 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: and that stays with people as they moved through their careers. 603 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: So it is different. I think it's you know, it's 604 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: also an industry that's in significant transformation. Um, which isn't 605 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: that's not unusual, that's true on the economy, but boy, 606 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: the industry in the ten years i've been here, it's 607 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: completely different. When we when when the strike happened, you know, 608 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: ten years ago, people said, well digital digital, this new media. 609 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: It's not it's not new anymore. It's media, it's digital 610 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: and and the focus was maybe more on you know, 611 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: just streaming, and that's important, but it's become so much more, 612 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: you know, made for digital is much more important. Viewer 613 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: expect expectations are different. People expect to watch things on demand. 614 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: That's going to completely change the way content is funded 615 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: and produced and distributed and and and profited and how 616 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: how the studios make a profit. And I know that's 617 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: always been you know, when when there's a change in 618 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: the profit model, that's when inevitably and invariably there's going 619 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: to be some conflict and how to divide up the 620 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: divide up the spoils. Yeah, and we've had those conversations 621 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: at the bargaining table. And frankly, the fact that we 622 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: do have such a strong relationship with our members is 623 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: going to be helpful because my view, and I think 624 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: history will prove me right, we shall see, is that 625 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: the need for skilled storytelling on the fiction side and 626 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: also the news side is going to only increase because 627 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: the the models of the expected models, or you just 628 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,479 Speaker 1: turn on your TV, or you just open up your 629 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: newspaper and that's all. That's that and and you just 630 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: absorb whatever content gets sent your way. I think that's gone. People, 631 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: the audience, the viewer, the reader has a lot more discretion. 632 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: So the quality has to be better, and that's got 633 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: to give them a reason to seek it out. They 634 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: have to seek it out, exactly right, And I think 635 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: what they will seek out is quality, and what our 636 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: members do is quality. So I think our members will prosper. 637 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: But I think, you know, one of the things I've 638 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: learned in ten years is the Union has to continually adapt. Also, 639 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: we have to listen as much as we give speeches 640 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: and uh and I we have, and I think that's 641 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: been one of the reasons we've been so successful. We've 642 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: we've organized a lot of digital people, reality TV people. 643 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: Our TV membership is growing. And it's not because we 644 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: sit back and we say, well, we already have all 645 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: the answers, don't bother me. We we spent a lot 646 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: of time learning from our members as well as trying 647 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: to make make the road listening in the trenches, you know. Yeah, Well, 648 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for stopping by and talking 649 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: to us about these issues. I really appreciate it. It's 650 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: been a pleasure. Thanks for listening. Be sure to join 651 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: us next week for another episode of Strictly Business.