WEBVTT - What are paraphilias? 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 Hello, it's me Josh, and this Wednesday, October two, I'm 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.040 going to be in Austin, Texas to do my live 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:09.639 End of the World show. I'm going to be at 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.680 the North Door and you can get tickets at n 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.520 D venue dot com. So come see me because it's 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.840 gonna be pretty boss and there's a few tickets left 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.120 and they're going very fast. If you want to come 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.720 see me and Chuck for Stuff you Should Know live 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:28.800 in New Orleans on October, you better go to s 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.640 Y s K live dot com. You'll get tickets in 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.680 info there and you will be very happy that you did. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.519 So see you guys in October. Welcome to Stuff you 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:47.640 Should Know, a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:52.080 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.080 W Chuck Bryant, and there's guest producer Lowell. I didn't 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.760 say Noel, everybody said Lowell. He's the first timer and 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:04.800 here to party. Is that why he has the beer bong, 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:07.759 which we didn't even call beer bongs. We just called 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.720 it funneling beer. Yeah? Yeah, oh, is that a beer bong? 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:12.360 I didn't realize they are one and the same. I 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.840 think so, it's just it must be regional. I just 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.679 thought like the crazy college kids would come up with something, 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.280 some new thing that was a beer bong that was 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.360 different than a funnel. But okay, you know the good 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.600 old days where you did kig stands and beer bongs, 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.119 and you know, I think I did one of echo 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:31.759 those in my entire college career. Was like, no, these 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.959 aren't that great. I never did a kig stand. They're 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.360 really hard. I don't understand them at all. They don't 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.880 make any sense whatsoever. Well, I think the idea is 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.200 you're upside down, right, but you're drinking. You know, the 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.600 beer is going in the opposite direction. Is you're standing 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.720 all right? I mean, I'm not sure the effect is 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:52.919 supposed to have. I'm sure if there's a head rush involved, 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:54.480 I don't know how I thought it was dumb. It 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.200 would make way more sense to do one of these 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.600 beer bongs and then do a handstand really quick. Yeah, 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:03.280 I mean, enough funnel de beer too in my day, 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.800 but that wasn't really my bag either. Just drinking like 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.400 a normal human being. Yeah, yeah, you know, me as 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.200 a freshman in college, shutting back with my brandy snifter 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:18.239 then you're smoking jacket's right slippers? Well, obviously, Chuck, since 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.040 I said smoking jacket and slippers, we're talking today about paraphilias, 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:26.160 which could be the case if the smoking jacket and 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.480 slippers were the was the only way that you could 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:34.919 achieve erection and completion. What do you mean completion like 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.920 you know, ejaculation. Oh, I got you. Completion. That's like 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.240 such a great way to put it. Man, it's so 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:46.400 like so crisp and sterile. Is it too late to 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:51.079 issue our c o A. Yes, it is away. Yeah, 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.480 I mean I figured since this is about paraphilias, unless 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:55.119 you don't know what that is, then you probably don't 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.560 have your kids listening already. But you know, we're gonna 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:03.079 be talking a lot about stuff like knowl and completion 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:09.000 and completion, abnormal sexuality. Yeah, which that you might as 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.320 well that the can of worms has been opened because 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.080 you said the word abnormal. Yeah, I mean that's what 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:19.400 paraphilia means. Like para, the prefix means beside, but really 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:24.440 in the usage, especially with with psychology, para means like abnormal, 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:28.000 not normal um. And then philia means love, so it's 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.920 abnormal love, which is kind of a funny way to 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:32.520 put it, but it's a lot better than the way 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:37.840 they used to put it, which is like deviants, sodomy, perversion. Yeah, 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.560 so it's actually a huge, massive step forward to call 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:46.040 it paraphilia. I actually found a couple of quick, quickie 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.760 definitions that don't even use the word abnormal that I 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.080 felt kind of nailed it a little better. One is 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:57.360 psychology today says a condition and which a person's sexual 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:03.360 arousal and gratification depend on fantasizing about and engaging engaging 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:08.600 in sexual behaviors that are atypical and extreme. And then 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.800 the other one says, you become sexually aroused by an 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:17.800 object your activity that most people don't consider sexually stimulating. Okay, yeah, 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.640 that's more interesting. That makes a lot of sense. That 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.080 second one, my favorite one, is not hurting yourself for 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:29.039 anybody else, Just go with it. That's that's a definition 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.960 that I can get behind, right, And that will also 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.159 bring up the distinction which we're going to be focusing 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:38.320 a lot of this on, between a paria, a paraphilia, 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:44.160 and a paraphilic disorder. Yeah, because the whole point of 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.200 studying paraphilias is not to be like, well, look at 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:49.800 this weirdo. Let's let's poke him and see what comes out, 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.560 see what brings him to completion? You know. Um, it's 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:58.680 instead to help people who are are distressed by the 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:02.800 fact that they have an a typical um object or 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:07.080 desire of sexual arousal, right like that that they are there, 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.920 there's some sort of compulsion that they can't um disregard, 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:14.320 and it's causing them to stress in their lives, or 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.520 it's harming their lives in some way or and this 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:22.479 one's even more important that there there are paraphilias that 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:27.800 involve other people that are not consenting. That's a big, 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.400 big problem too. It's big enough problem when it's affecting 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.839 your own life, but when it involves somebody else who 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.560 does not want to be involved in your paraphilia, then 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:40.440 it's a big problem, and the courts frequently become involved. Yeah, 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.360 so this is mainly an overview, so we're not going 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.680 to get too much into specific paraphilias. Although tell me 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.920 you didn't have a bunch of ideas for further episodes. 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.760 I'm so glad you said that, But also, did you 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:57.960 hear like a million people just go oh, but let's 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.280 can I read through some of these real qu though 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.240 at least, yeah, let's do that. So common paraphilia is 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.280 Voyeurism is one. I think we all know what that is, sure, 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.640 the peeping tom uh this is listed, which kind of 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.000 I don't know. I didn't know what was gonna be 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:15.880 on here. Transvestism, yeah, cross stressing is a better way 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.080 to put that, which is well, we'll talk a little 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.680 more about that one later because it's a good example. Exhibitionism, yes, 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.800 which can be just you know, um, if you like 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.039 acting in porno films, you could be an exhibitionist and 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.560 it could be very fulfilling or more frequently, from what 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:38.800 I understand, you can expose your genitalia expecting person. Yeah, 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:40.800 and a parking lot. And the thing that I read 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:45.039 about exhibitionism and males what we commonly call like flashers. 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.840 They're not. They don't get gratification from the other person, 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.719 be like, oh hey, ten out of ten, you know, 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.480 or let's go something like that. They get their gratification. 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.640 This is the whole point of their exhibitionism is from 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.520 the shock, from the surprise that they elicit from the 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.520 other person when they suddenly expose their genitalius. Are you 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.480 surprised by that. Yes, I was actually really did you 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:14.000 think it was like a legit? Come on, I guess 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.360 I always did. Now that I think about it, it 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.640 is a little ridiculous, But it never occurred to me 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.600 that that is what they were going for? Was that 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.000 shock or surprise, which, yeah, which makes the whole non 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.560 consenting thing even worse, you know, yeah, for sure. Uh 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.920 So fetishism. And this is interesting because I think a 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.360 lot of people think a fetish is just any you know, 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:38.560 a typical sexual desire. But a fetish specifically is a 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.960 non living object like a shoe, like a high heel shoe, 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:46.360 or something that excites you sexually. Whereas if you say, like, oh, 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:50.680 I've got a foot fetish, that's actually called partialism. Yes, 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.080 that's right, And it could it could be a foot fetish, 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.000 it could be a breast fetish, it could be a 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:58.560 butt fetish whatever. But I think with partialism, it's specifically 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.200 part of the human body, right right, Okay, But the 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.640 other stuff, it's like a non human object, like you said, 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.800 a shoe or something you know, oh, I don't know, 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:11.400 like a nice candlestand or smoking jacket and slippers. That's right. 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:16.680 A candlestand what are they called a candlestick? Candlestick? But 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.280 what used to murder people? I forgot the candlestick. Uh. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:25.320 There is fraderism. That is when you know subway creeps 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:31.360 rubbing up against your non consenting obviously again yes, non consenting. Uh. 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:36.480 There is S and M so sexual sadism and sexual masochism. 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.840 So do you know the difference. I'm sure you do. Sure. 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:43.199 Masochism is self harm, self abuse, or or enjoying being 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:48.719 abused or humiliated. Masochism is or sadism is inflicting out 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.280 on somebody else. Correct, You're doing really well, Thank you. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:57.160 We should turn this into an internet quiz. Uh. Pedophilia, 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.800 which everyone knows what that is rible. It is terrible, 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.440 and there's there's a lot more to unpack with that. 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.240 So much so I think that that one deserves its 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.320 own episode, Oh for sure. Uh. And those are the 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.880 most common. Less common are somnophilia, that is, fondling a 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.480 person who is a sleeper unconscious. I would guess that's 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.880 also unconsenting to. Uh. Yeah, I wonder, although imagine you 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.040 could act that out in a consenting way. I wonder, well, yeah, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.640 and I wonder if also that's it like an introductory 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:30.480 level beginner's class for necrophilia, because like the lightest form 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.800 of necrophilia is the other person pretending they're dead. Al right, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.480 So necrophilia one on one, that's another one that deserves 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.400 its own episode. Yeah for sure, Um, and I know 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:45.880 which other one you're gonna pick? Two? Uh, there's telephone scatalogia, yes, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:51.040 prank calls, but obscene variety like Philip Seymour Hoffman and happiness, right, 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:57.959 not the pursuit of happiness. Different altogether, really different, like 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:03.920 the opposite of each other. Uh. There's copperophilia, you know, 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.760 that's um an obsession with poop, maybe being pooped on, sure, 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.800 just poop in general turns you on eurrophilia, that's obvious, right, 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:19.160 And then zoophilia, yes, man, which is you might think like, wow, 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.280 that's that's gross. The person is engaging in acts of 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.600 best reality. That's the new name for best reality is zoophilia. 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.319 But one thing that a lot of people overlook UM, 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.360 or at least I did until I saw the documentary Zoo, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.960 was that it's a It also involves non consenting um 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.880 partners or other people, but not a person, an animal. 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.920 The animal can't consent to that. Um, And so there's 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.839 it's a basically a form of rape, but it's animal rape. Yeah. 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.560 I never saw that documentary. Man, I know it's been 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.600 many years you've been you've been wearing that T shirt 0:10:53.640 --> 0:11:00.280 every day. Yeah, the I heart Zoo, Yeah I want Zoo. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.400 And all I got was this lousy teacher. Right. But 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:04.040 it's like I want to recommend it, but at the 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.360 same time, I also want to be like stay away, 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.000 you know, like you're you're going to change in some ways, 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.920 some of which you might not be fully okay with, 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.640 you know. So it's a tough one. But as far 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.560 as documentary filmmaking goes, it's about as close to a 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:22.880 masterpieces there is sold. Although it did get a lot 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:27.520 of flak chuck for um, a lot of recreation. If 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.800 I remember correctly, I think the whole thing might have 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.600 been voiceover and recreations. How like specific do they get 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.079 with those recreas? Very like, um, like it's just slightly 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:42.000 out of focus kind of stuff. Interesting. Yeah, all right, 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.000 now they think about it, I'm not sure how they 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:48.920 did that. So the important thing to remember about these 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.640 paraphilias and this is, um, we're not talking about the 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.600 disorder part. But it's important to what language people use, 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:01.440 because for many, many years, and still in many circles, um, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:05.920 things like homosexuality have even been considered you know, a perversion. 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.280 So things have evolved over time, but depending on who 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.480 you are and where you are in the country, even 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.280 and what your political affiliation might be, there still might 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:20.360 be a lot of um damning language us for what 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:24.360 some people consider consider immoral. Yeah, and like you kind 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.680 of hit it on the head, um, homosexuality was considered 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.920 a disorder until that, I think late seventies as far 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:37.040 as the psychology community was was concerned. And things change, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.839 but it all basically boils down to morality so much 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:45.080 so that it's like, you know, the law. The fact 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.000 that there have been laws against certain sexual acts and 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.959 that those have changed and evolve over time really kind 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.120 of underscores this idea that you know, society says, this 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.600 is not okay because we think it's weird, um, or 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.360 this is not okay because you're harming somebody else, um. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.880 But but the fact that it changes or evolves really 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.280 kind of shows that that in a lot of circumstances, 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.720 especially when it comes to the kind of paraphilia where 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:18.199 you're just involving yourself and you're you're not harmed by 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.319 it in any way, it's not causing distress. That there's 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:26.599 really little reason whatsoever for anybody to be um legislating 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.040 or moralizing about that because it doesn't really have anything 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:34.000 to do with anybody else, right, so they're for sure 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.920 legal acts are illegal acts. And thus I guess legal 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:43.360 acts in terms of paraphilia. Uh, there are problematic behaviors too, 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.719 and that is um, like you mentioned, I don't know 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.960 if you mentioned masturbation. I didn't because I don't know that. 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.319 I mean, I'm sure there is a paraphilia where all 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:58.120 you want to do is masturbate, but that seems more like, um, 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.079 I don't know, it just doesn't seem like a paraphiles me. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.000 I could be wrong, though. Well. The whole idea of 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.880 problematic though, is like if you're so consumed by masturbation 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.480 that you can't, like you can't go to work, or 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:10.880 you leave work so often that you miss meetings, and 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.199 you know, Basically, I think the point is what could 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.240 be a harmless behavior can be problematic if it's all 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.880 consuming and like affects your job or your home life 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.880 or your social life right or there, or it's like 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.080 causing you to be arrested so you miss work the 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.840 next day. There's this guy who, um, there's actually multiple people, 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:35.600 but one man was arrested. Um. I guess making love 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:37.280 to a car is how you would put it, which 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:41.760 is mchennophilia mechanophilia. Interesting. Um. And there's another guy who 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.200 claims to have made love to over a thousand cars 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.520 in his lifetime, and as far as I know, he's 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.280 never been arrested, and he seems to be totally great 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.080 with the idea. He said that his peak sexual experience 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.800 was a wolf. I was gonna say with like a 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.240 fifty seven Chevy. No, he has, he has, I don't 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.560 know how else to put it. Made love to Herbie 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.640 before Herbie the Beatle, like the real thing, or he 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.880 had it recreated as far as I know, the real thing. 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.520 But air Wolf, Chuck, air Wolf, he got with air Wolf. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.400 That the plane, the helicopter, the helicopter Okay, I couldn't remember, Yeah, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.480 the jam Michael Vincent helicopter from the TV show. But 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.840 this guy, that guy, he seems to be totally fine 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.520 with it because he, you know, submits to interviews and 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.160 poses for photos that show up in the paper from 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.560 time to time. But I don't think he's ever been arrested, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.120 so his would just be a paraphelia the guy who 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.120 got arrested. His would be a paraphilic disorder as far 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.080 as the D S M. Five is concerned. But it 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.240 sounds to me like this guy just didn't get caught 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.560 because you can't make love to air Wolf and Herbie legally. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:47.920 I guess you can't, You're right, because it got to 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.400 be in like a museum or something. Right, he's dancing 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.320 along the line unless he has a lot of money 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.160 and he's like, hey, I'll pay you, you know, a 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.680 thousand dollars to look the other way while I get 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.440 an hour with air Wolf, or he's the night watchman 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.000 at the Hollywood Car and Air Space Museum. But even 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.640 that that would be technically illegal, or at least he 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:08.760 could get fired for that, So that would be a 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.800 paraphilic disorder. Then this is all very interesting stuff, it 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.200 really is. But also I want to point this out, 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.480 like if you're starting to feel a little bit confused 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.440 and it sounds like we're just kind of throwing stuff 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:24.280 at the wall, welcome to the world of studying paraphilias 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.800 from in the field of psychology. Yeah, absolutely right. Should 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:30.880 we take a break, Yeah, all right, let's do that 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.280 and we'll come back and uh never talk about air 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:56.600 wolf again. Okay, So we're back and we're more confused 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.840 than ever I thought we started out. Really well, just 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:04.680 send it into genuine confusion, that's right, which is very 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.960 easy to do because, like we said from the get go, 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:11.359 the definitions change so often in what is acceptable or 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.919 not acceptable, and immoral or not immoral. It is all 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.240 a matter of opinion, So it's kind of hard to 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.479 dive into this stuff. It really is so um there. 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.280 That's why, over time the definition of paraphilia is kind 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:29.040 of expanded and contracted. UM. And the ones that tend 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:33.120 to be called out in the d s M, which 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.240 we'll get to in a minute, some of them make 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.280 total sense, like pedophilia being in there. That's like something 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:43.000 that that psychology should take a keen interest in addressing. Um. 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:48.280 Other ones don't make any sense, like transvestism um, cross dressing, 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.720 where like if you are into wearing women's clothes and 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.679 you're a man, and that is how you achieve sexual arousal. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.840 There's no problem with that, and it shouldn't it shouldn't 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:04.920 be psychologized. But then the field of psychology would say, well, whoa, whoa. 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.040 There are people who are into cross stressing and they 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.879 can achieve sexual arousal without it, but they find this 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:15.320 very distressing. It's it's um running up against society's expectations 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.400 of what it means to be a man. They are 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.040 having trouble rectifying that. So we need to play that 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.480 role too. So over time, as we were saying, paraphelia's 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.720 have been distinguished, most recently, I think in two thirteen 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.240 with the d s M five between just an atypical 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.880 sexual interest in an atypical sexual interest that causes distress 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:38.239 in the person or involves non consenting people. That's right. Uh. 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.439 But over the years, a lot of these terms have 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:47.440 changed in their meaning. Up until geez, up until century three, 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:52.040 people are using words like sodomite or sodomizer, even though 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.199 it sounds like something from the Bible, which it is. 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:58.520 Um and anti sodomy laws were on the books until 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.719 Lawrence v. Texas Supreme Court said that these laws are 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.199 not constitutional. Um. That was an interesting case. There was 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:11.359 a weapon's disturbance reported at a private residence. Houston police 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.000 were called. They entered the apartment of John Lawrence and 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:19.320 saw him with another adult man engaging in a private 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.600 and consexual con sexual Well, you just killed two birds 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.800 right there. That's right, consentual sex act. And they were arrested, 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.800 uh for deviant sexual intercourse and violation of Texas statute 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.240 that said basically, two people of the same sex can 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:41.760 engage in a certain intimate sexual conduct. It was held 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.679 up by the state Court of Appeals, but then eventually 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.760 overturned six three by the U. S. Supreme Court, and 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.800 that was they were arrested in two thousand and the 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.119 Supreme Court ruled in two thousand three. And when they 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.840 ruled in two thousand three against Texas, they said, youth 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:04.000 thirteen other states that have sodomy books laws on the books, 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.320 they're they're null and void. Now you just cannot You 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:12.960 cannot outlaw people's consensual sexual behavior in the privacy of 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:14.800 their own homes. You just can't do it. Well, yeah, 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.720 but the way they did it was they said it 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.920 violates their due process clause, the due process clause of 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.280 the Constitution. Oh, how so, Well, I mean, if they're 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.919 behind closed doors in private, engaging in a practice, um, 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.160 then to arrest them for doing something is a violation 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.880 of their due process. Like you know what I mean, 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.879 I I don't. To me, it's more just like it 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.600 kind of follows in that great American tradition of if 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.000 you're not hurting yourself or other people, what you do 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.760 behind your own your own closed doors is fine with 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.399 everybody else, we'll just look the other way. Well, that 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:54.720 is true, but they have to frame it, I think 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.800 under the guise of the Constitution. Yeah, but I just 0:20:57.800 --> 0:20:59.440 don't see how that how that has to do with 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.080 do proces this? Because the due process being like you are, 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.000 you're you have the right to be defended by a 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.360 competent attorney and in a court of law in front 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.080 of a jury of your peers. I don't know. I mean, 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.880 Anthony Kennedy wrote, their right to liberty under the due 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.720 process clause gives them the full right to engage in 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:21.160 their conduct without intervention of the government. Well, I mean, 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.520 I agree with Kennedy, I just don't quite understand where 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:25.600 he's coming from. No, I hear you. Maybe one of 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.159 our wonderful listeners will write in and say I'm a 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:32.600 constitutional law professor, and here's what he meant. Maybe so, 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:34.479 so it's a big deal. Like you were saying that 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:39.560 we started calling paraphilias paraphiles rather than sodomy laws because 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.920 it's it's it's basically psychology saying thanks a lot for 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.960 for this religion. We're going to take the reins from 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:49.199 here and we're going to take it out of you know, 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.760 the realm of just religious moralization and put it into 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.840 scientific study. And that was a big, big transition. Um. 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.880 We said earlier that that laws against certain sexual acts 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.640 have been on the books for thousands of years now. 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.159 Some of the earliest they found were from um A 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:11.439 thousand b c. Three thousand years ago in Assyria, the 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.480 Roman republic Um. And that was just kind of how 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:21.080 it stood. The Bible legislated against things like b clity, homosexuality, adultery. 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.240 There was there's just always been kind of moral codes 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.960 and consequences that society said, if you break this moral 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.679 code as far as sex is concerned, we're going to 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:32.840 bury you up to your neck and stone you to 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.520 death or something like that. Right, But then in the 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:39.080 twentieth century, I think slightly before the twentieth century as 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.120 psychology started develop one of the first things that said 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:44.120 is like, this is right up our alley, We're gonna 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.800 take this over. And in nineteen o four in Austrian 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:54.159 scientists named Friedrich Solomon Krauss uh coined the term paraphilias 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:58.240 and it started to kind of transition into the scientific study. Yeah, 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.880 and there's another guy named John on Money or Money. 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:04.679 I want to say money, because if he's a sexologist 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:08.399 named John Money that it doesn't get any better than that. Uh. 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:11.359 And apparently he's he's a really prominent researcher of paraphilia 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:13.560 and he kind of brought it into the forefront as 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:16.040 far as using that word. Yeah, And I mean, just 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:20.240 because you know, Friedrich Solomon Krauss coined it in nineteen 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:24.000 o four doesn't mean that psychology adopted it. And it 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:27.680 wasn't until nineteen eighty that the d s M started 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:33.840 using paraphilia in place of sexual deviance night. Yeah, so 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:35.760 they've got at catching up to do, and what they're 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:38.000 involved in right now is trying to figure out what 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.280 the heck is going on and exactly where the boundaries 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:44.440 are between what they're supposed to be studying and what 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:47.640 they what's none of their business really. Yeah, And there's 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:51.760 a couple of um, a couple of psychological manuals that 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.600 are often looked to. And we talked a lot about 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:57.280 on the show about the d s M, the Diagnostic 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:00.600