1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Hello, it's me Josh, and this Wednesday, October two, I'm 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: going to be in Austin, Texas to do my live 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: End of the World show. I'm going to be at 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: the North Door and you can get tickets at n 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: D venue dot com. So come see me because it's 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: gonna be pretty boss and there's a few tickets left 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: and they're going very fast. If you want to come 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: see me and Chuck for Stuff you Should Know live 9 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: in New Orleans on October, you better go to s 10 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: Y s K live dot com. You'll get tickets in 11 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: info there and you will be very happy that you did. 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: So see you guys in October. Welcome to Stuff you 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: Should Know, a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: W Chuck Bryant, and there's guest producer Lowell. I didn't 16 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: say Noel, everybody said Lowell. He's the first timer and 17 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: here to party. Is that why he has the beer bong, 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: which we didn't even call beer bongs. We just called 19 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: it funneling beer. Yeah? Yeah, oh, is that a beer bong? 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: I didn't realize they are one and the same. I 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: think so, it's just it must be regional. I just 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: thought like the crazy college kids would come up with something, 23 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: some new thing that was a beer bong that was 24 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: different than a funnel. But okay, you know the good 25 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: old days where you did kig stands and beer bongs, 26 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: and you know, I think I did one of echo 27 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: those in my entire college career. Was like, no, these 28 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: aren't that great. I never did a kig stand. They're 29 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: really hard. I don't understand them at all. They don't 30 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: make any sense whatsoever. Well, I think the idea is 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: you're upside down, right, but you're drinking. You know, the 32 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: beer is going in the opposite direction. Is you're standing 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: all right? I mean, I'm not sure the effect is 34 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,919 Speaker 1: supposed to have. I'm sure if there's a head rush involved, 35 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: I don't know how I thought it was dumb. It 36 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: would make way more sense to do one of these 37 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: beer bongs and then do a handstand really quick. Yeah, 38 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: I mean, enough funnel de beer too in my day, 39 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: but that wasn't really my bag either. Just drinking like 40 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: a normal human being. Yeah, yeah, you know, me as 41 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: a freshman in college, shutting back with my brandy snifter 42 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: then you're smoking jacket's right slippers? Well, obviously, Chuck, since 43 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: I said smoking jacket and slippers, we're talking today about paraphilias, 44 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: which could be the case if the smoking jacket and 45 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: slippers were the was the only way that you could 46 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: achieve erection and completion. What do you mean completion like 47 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: you know, ejaculation. Oh, I got you. Completion. That's like 48 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: such a great way to put it. Man, it's so 49 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: like so crisp and sterile. Is it too late to 50 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: issue our c o A. Yes, it is away. Yeah, 51 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: I mean I figured since this is about paraphilias, unless 52 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 1: you don't know what that is, then you probably don't 53 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: have your kids listening already. But you know, we're gonna 54 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: be talking a lot about stuff like knowl and completion 55 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: and completion, abnormal sexuality. Yeah, which that you might as 56 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: well that the can of worms has been opened because 57 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: you said the word abnormal. Yeah, I mean that's what 58 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: paraphilia means. Like para, the prefix means beside, but really 59 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: in the usage, especially with with psychology, para means like abnormal, 60 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: not normal um. And then philia means love, so it's 61 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: abnormal love, which is kind of a funny way to 62 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: put it, but it's a lot better than the way 63 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: they used to put it, which is like deviants, sodomy, perversion. Yeah, 64 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: so it's actually a huge, massive step forward to call 65 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: it paraphilia. I actually found a couple of quick, quickie 66 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: definitions that don't even use the word abnormal that I 67 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: felt kind of nailed it a little better. One is 68 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: psychology today says a condition and which a person's sexual 69 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: arousal and gratification depend on fantasizing about and engaging engaging 70 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: in sexual behaviors that are atypical and extreme. And then 71 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: the other one says, you become sexually aroused by an 72 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: object your activity that most people don't consider sexually stimulating. Okay, yeah, 73 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: that's more interesting. That makes a lot of sense. That 74 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: second one, my favorite one, is not hurting yourself for 75 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: anybody else, Just go with it. That's that's a definition 76 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: that I can get behind, right, And that will also 77 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: bring up the distinction which we're going to be focusing 78 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: a lot of this on, between a paria, a paraphilia, 79 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: and a paraphilic disorder. Yeah, because the whole point of 80 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: studying paraphilias is not to be like, well, look at 81 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: this weirdo. Let's let's poke him and see what comes out, 82 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: see what brings him to completion? You know. Um, it's 83 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: instead to help people who are are distressed by the 84 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: fact that they have an a typical um object or 85 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: desire of sexual arousal, right like that that they are there, 86 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: there's some sort of compulsion that they can't um disregard, 87 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: and it's causing them to stress in their lives, or 88 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: it's harming their lives in some way or and this 89 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: one's even more important that there there are paraphilias that 90 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: involve other people that are not consenting. That's a big, 91 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: big problem too. It's big enough problem when it's affecting 92 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: your own life, but when it involves somebody else who 93 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: does not want to be involved in your paraphilia, then 94 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: it's a big problem, and the courts frequently become involved. Yeah, 95 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: so this is mainly an overview, so we're not going 96 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: to get too much into specific paraphilias. Although tell me 97 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: you didn't have a bunch of ideas for further episodes. 98 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, But also, did you 99 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: hear like a million people just go oh, but let's 100 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: can I read through some of these real qu though 101 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: at least, yeah, let's do that. So common paraphilia is 102 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: Voyeurism is one. I think we all know what that is, sure, 103 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: the peeping tom uh this is listed, which kind of 104 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't know what was gonna be 105 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: on here. Transvestism, yeah, cross stressing is a better way 106 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: to put that, which is well, we'll talk a little 107 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: more about that one later because it's a good example. Exhibitionism, yes, 108 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: which can be just you know, um, if you like 109 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: acting in porno films, you could be an exhibitionist and 110 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: it could be very fulfilling or more frequently, from what 111 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: I understand, you can expose your genitalia expecting person. Yeah, 112 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: and a parking lot. And the thing that I read 113 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: about exhibitionism and males what we commonly call like flashers. 114 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: They're not. They don't get gratification from the other person, 115 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: be like, oh hey, ten out of ten, you know, 116 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: or let's go something like that. They get their gratification. 117 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: This is the whole point of their exhibitionism is from 118 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: the shock, from the surprise that they elicit from the 119 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: other person when they suddenly expose their genitalius. Are you 120 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: surprised by that. Yes, I was actually really did you 121 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: think it was like a legit? Come on, I guess 122 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: I always did. Now that I think about it, it 123 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: is a little ridiculous, But it never occurred to me 124 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: that that is what they were going for? Was that 125 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: shock or surprise, which, yeah, which makes the whole non 126 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: consenting thing even worse, you know, yeah, for sure. Uh 127 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: So fetishism. And this is interesting because I think a 128 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: lot of people think a fetish is just any you know, 129 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: a typical sexual desire. But a fetish specifically is a 130 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: non living object like a shoe, like a high heel shoe, 131 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: or something that excites you sexually. Whereas if you say, like, oh, 132 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: I've got a foot fetish, that's actually called partialism. Yes, 133 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: that's right, And it could it could be a foot fetish, 134 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: it could be a breast fetish, it could be a 135 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: butt fetish whatever. But I think with partialism, it's specifically 136 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: part of the human body, right right, Okay, But the 137 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: other stuff, it's like a non human object, like you said, 138 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: a shoe or something you know, oh, I don't know, 139 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: like a nice candlestand or smoking jacket and slippers. That's right. 140 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: A candlestand what are they called a candlestick? Candlestick? But 141 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: what used to murder people? I forgot the candlestick. Uh. 142 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: There is fraderism. That is when you know subway creeps 143 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: rubbing up against your non consenting obviously again yes, non consenting. Uh. 144 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: There is S and M so sexual sadism and sexual masochism. 145 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: So do you know the difference. I'm sure you do. Sure. 146 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: Masochism is self harm, self abuse, or or enjoying being 147 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 1: abused or humiliated. Masochism is or sadism is inflicting out 148 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: on somebody else. Correct, You're doing really well, Thank you. 149 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: We should turn this into an internet quiz. Uh. Pedophilia, 150 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: which everyone knows what that is rible. It is terrible, 151 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: and there's there's a lot more to unpack with that. 152 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: So much so I think that that one deserves its 153 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: own episode, Oh for sure. Uh. And those are the 154 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: most common. Less common are somnophilia, that is, fondling a 155 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: person who is a sleeper unconscious. I would guess that's 156 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: also unconsenting to. Uh. Yeah, I wonder, although imagine you 157 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: could act that out in a consenting way. I wonder, well, yeah, 158 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: and I wonder if also that's it like an introductory 159 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: level beginner's class for necrophilia, because like the lightest form 160 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: of necrophilia is the other person pretending they're dead. Al right, 161 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: So necrophilia one on one, that's another one that deserves 162 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: its own episode. Yeah for sure, Um, and I know 163 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: which other one you're gonna pick? Two? Uh, there's telephone scatalogia, yes, 164 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: prank calls, but obscene variety like Philip Seymour Hoffman and happiness, right, 165 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: not the pursuit of happiness. Different altogether, really different, like 166 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: the opposite of each other. Uh. There's copperophilia, you know, 167 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: that's um an obsession with poop, maybe being pooped on, sure, 168 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: just poop in general turns you on eurrophilia, that's obvious, right, 169 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: And then zoophilia, yes, man, which is you might think like, wow, 170 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: that's that's gross. The person is engaging in acts of 171 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: best reality. That's the new name for best reality is zoophilia. 172 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: But one thing that a lot of people overlook UM, 173 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: or at least I did until I saw the documentary Zoo, 174 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: was that it's a It also involves non consenting um 175 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: partners or other people, but not a person, an animal. 176 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: The animal can't consent to that. Um, And so there's 177 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: it's a basically a form of rape, but it's animal rape. Yeah. 178 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: I never saw that documentary. Man, I know it's been 179 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: many years you've been you've been wearing that T shirt 180 00:10:53,640 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, the I heart Zoo, Yeah I want Zoo. 181 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: And all I got was this lousy teacher. Right. But 182 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: it's like I want to recommend it, but at the 183 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: same time, I also want to be like stay away, 184 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, like you're you're going to change in some ways, 185 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: some of which you might not be fully okay with, 186 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: you know. So it's a tough one. But as far 187 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: as documentary filmmaking goes, it's about as close to a 188 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: masterpieces there is sold. Although it did get a lot 189 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: of flak chuck for um, a lot of recreation. If 190 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: I remember correctly, I think the whole thing might have 191 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: been voiceover and recreations. How like specific do they get 192 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: with those recreas? Very like, um, like it's just slightly 193 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: out of focus kind of stuff. Interesting. Yeah, all right, 194 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: now they think about it, I'm not sure how they 195 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: did that. So the important thing to remember about these 196 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: paraphilias and this is, um, we're not talking about the 197 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: disorder part. But it's important to what language people use, 198 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: because for many, many years, and still in many circles, um, 199 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: things like homosexuality have even been considered you know, a perversion. 200 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: So things have evolved over time, but depending on who 201 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: you are and where you are in the country, even 202 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: and what your political affiliation might be, there still might 203 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: be a lot of um damning language us for what 204 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: some people consider consider immoral. Yeah, and like you kind 205 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: of hit it on the head, um, homosexuality was considered 206 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: a disorder until that, I think late seventies as far 207 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: as the psychology community was was concerned. And things change, 208 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 1: but it all basically boils down to morality so much 209 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: so that it's like, you know, the law. The fact 210 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: that there have been laws against certain sexual acts and 211 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: that those have changed and evolve over time really kind 212 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: of underscores this idea that you know, society says, this 213 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: is not okay because we think it's weird, um, or 214 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: this is not okay because you're harming somebody else, um. 215 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: But but the fact that it changes or evolves really 216 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: kind of shows that that in a lot of circumstances, 217 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to the kind of paraphilia where 218 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: you're just involving yourself and you're you're not harmed by 219 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: it in any way, it's not causing distress. That there's 220 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:26,599 Speaker 1: really little reason whatsoever for anybody to be um legislating 221 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: or moralizing about that because it doesn't really have anything 222 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: to do with anybody else, right, so they're for sure 223 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: legal acts are illegal acts. And thus I guess legal 224 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: acts in terms of paraphilia. Uh, there are problematic behaviors too, 225 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 1: and that is um, like you mentioned, I don't know 226 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: if you mentioned masturbation. I didn't because I don't know that. 227 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure there is a paraphilia where all 228 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: you want to do is masturbate, but that seems more like, um, 229 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 1: I don't know, it just doesn't seem like a paraphiles me. 230 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: I could be wrong, though. Well. The whole idea of 231 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: problematic though, is like if you're so consumed by masturbation 232 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: that you can't, like you can't go to work, or 233 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: you leave work so often that you miss meetings, and 234 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 1: you know, Basically, I think the point is what could 235 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: be a harmless behavior can be problematic if it's all 236 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: consuming and like affects your job or your home life 237 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: or your social life right or there, or it's like 238 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: causing you to be arrested so you miss work the 239 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: next day. There's this guy who, um, there's actually multiple people, 240 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: but one man was arrested. Um. I guess making love 241 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: to a car is how you would put it, which 242 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: is mchennophilia mechanophilia. Interesting. Um. And there's another guy who 243 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: claims to have made love to over a thousand cars 244 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: in his lifetime, and as far as I know, he's 245 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: never been arrested, and he seems to be totally great 246 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: with the idea. He said that his peak sexual experience 247 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: was a wolf. I was gonna say with like a 248 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: fifty seven Chevy. No, he has, he has, I don't 249 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: know how else to put it. Made love to Herbie 250 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: before Herbie the Beatle, like the real thing, or he 251 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: had it recreated as far as I know, the real thing. 252 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: But air Wolf, Chuck, air Wolf, he got with air Wolf. 253 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: That the plane, the helicopter, the helicopter Okay, I couldn't remember, Yeah, 254 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: the jam Michael Vincent helicopter from the TV show. But 255 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: this guy, that guy, he seems to be totally fine 256 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: with it because he, you know, submits to interviews and 257 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: poses for photos that show up in the paper from 258 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: time to time. But I don't think he's ever been arrested, 259 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: so his would just be a paraphelia the guy who 260 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: got arrested. His would be a paraphilic disorder as far 261 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: as the D S M. Five is concerned. But it 262 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: sounds to me like this guy just didn't get caught 263 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: because you can't make love to air Wolf and Herbie legally. 264 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: I guess you can't, You're right, because it got to 265 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: be in like a museum or something. Right, he's dancing 266 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: along the line unless he has a lot of money 267 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, I'll pay you, you know, a 268 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: thousand dollars to look the other way while I get 269 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: an hour with air Wolf, or he's the night watchman 270 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: at the Hollywood Car and Air Space Museum. But even 271 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: that that would be technically illegal, or at least he 272 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: could get fired for that, So that would be a 273 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: paraphilic disorder. Then this is all very interesting stuff, it 274 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: really is. But also I want to point this out, 275 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: like if you're starting to feel a little bit confused 276 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: and it sounds like we're just kind of throwing stuff 277 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: at the wall, welcome to the world of studying paraphilias 278 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: from in the field of psychology. Yeah, absolutely right. Should 279 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: we take a break, Yeah, all right, let's do that 280 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: and we'll come back and uh never talk about air 281 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: wolf again. Okay, So we're back and we're more confused 282 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: than ever I thought we started out. Really well, just 283 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: send it into genuine confusion, that's right, which is very 284 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: easy to do because, like we said from the get go, 285 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: the definitions change so often in what is acceptable or 286 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: not acceptable, and immoral or not immoral. It is all 287 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: a matter of opinion, So it's kind of hard to 288 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 1: dive into this stuff. It really is so um there. 289 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: That's why, over time the definition of paraphilia is kind 290 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: of expanded and contracted. UM. And the ones that tend 291 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 1: to be called out in the d s M, which 292 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: we'll get to in a minute, some of them make 293 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: total sense, like pedophilia being in there. That's like something 294 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: that that psychology should take a keen interest in addressing. Um. 295 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: Other ones don't make any sense, like transvestism um, cross dressing, 296 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: where like if you are into wearing women's clothes and 297 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: you're a man, and that is how you achieve sexual arousal. 298 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: There's no problem with that, and it shouldn't it shouldn't 299 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: be psychologized. But then the field of psychology would say, well, whoa, whoa. 300 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: There are people who are into cross stressing and they 301 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: can achieve sexual arousal without it, but they find this 302 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: very distressing. It's it's um running up against society's expectations 303 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: of what it means to be a man. They are 304 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: having trouble rectifying that. So we need to play that 305 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: role too. So over time, as we were saying, paraphelia's 306 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: have been distinguished, most recently, I think in two thirteen 307 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: with the d s M five between just an atypical 308 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: sexual interest in an atypical sexual interest that causes distress 309 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,239 Speaker 1: in the person or involves non consenting people. That's right. Uh. 310 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: But over the years, a lot of these terms have 311 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: changed in their meaning. Up until geez, up until century three, 312 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: people are using words like sodomite or sodomizer, even though 313 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: it sounds like something from the Bible, which it is. 314 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: Um and anti sodomy laws were on the books until 315 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 1: Lawrence v. Texas Supreme Court said that these laws are 316 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: not constitutional. Um. That was an interesting case. There was 317 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: a weapon's disturbance reported at a private residence. Houston police 318 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: were called. They entered the apartment of John Lawrence and 319 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: saw him with another adult man engaging in a private 320 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: and consexual con sexual Well, you just killed two birds 321 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: right there. That's right, consentual sex act. And they were arrested, 322 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: uh for deviant sexual intercourse and violation of Texas statute 323 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: that said basically, two people of the same sex can 324 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: engage in a certain intimate sexual conduct. It was held 325 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: up by the state Court of Appeals, but then eventually 326 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: overturned six three by the U. S. Supreme Court, and 327 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: that was they were arrested in two thousand and the 328 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruled in two thousand three. And when they 329 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: ruled in two thousand three against Texas, they said, youth 330 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: thirteen other states that have sodomy books laws on the books, 331 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: they're they're null and void. Now you just cannot You 332 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: cannot outlaw people's consensual sexual behavior in the privacy of 333 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: their own homes. You just can't do it. Well, yeah, 334 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: but the way they did it was they said it 335 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: violates their due process clause, the due process clause of 336 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: the Constitution. Oh, how so, Well, I mean, if they're 337 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: behind closed doors in private, engaging in a practice, um, 338 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: then to arrest them for doing something is a violation 339 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: of their due process. Like you know what I mean, 340 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: I I don't. To me, it's more just like it 341 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: kind of follows in that great American tradition of if 342 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: you're not hurting yourself or other people, what you do 343 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: behind your own your own closed doors is fine with 344 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: everybody else, we'll just look the other way. Well, that 345 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: is true, but they have to frame it, I think 346 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: under the guise of the Constitution. Yeah, but I just 347 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: don't see how that how that has to do with 348 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: do proces this? Because the due process being like you are, 349 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: you're you have the right to be defended by a 350 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: competent attorney and in a court of law in front 351 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: of a jury of your peers. I don't know. I mean, 352 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: Anthony Kennedy wrote, their right to liberty under the due 353 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: process clause gives them the full right to engage in 354 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: their conduct without intervention of the government. Well, I mean, 355 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: I agree with Kennedy, I just don't quite understand where 356 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: he's coming from. No, I hear you. Maybe one of 357 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: our wonderful listeners will write in and say I'm a 358 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: constitutional law professor, and here's what he meant. Maybe so, 359 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 1: so it's a big deal. Like you were saying that 360 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: we started calling paraphilias paraphiles rather than sodomy laws because 361 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: it's it's it's basically psychology saying thanks a lot for 362 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: for this religion. We're going to take the reins from 363 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: here and we're going to take it out of you know, 364 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: the realm of just religious moralization and put it into 365 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: scientific study. And that was a big, big transition. Um. 366 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: We said earlier that that laws against certain sexual acts 367 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: have been on the books for thousands of years now. 368 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: Some of the earliest they found were from um A 369 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: thousand b c. Three thousand years ago in Assyria, the 370 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: Roman republic Um. And that was just kind of how 371 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: it stood. The Bible legislated against things like b clity, homosexuality, adultery. 372 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: There was there's just always been kind of moral codes 373 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: and consequences that society said, if you break this moral 374 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: code as far as sex is concerned, we're going to 375 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: bury you up to your neck and stone you to 376 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: death or something like that. Right, But then in the 377 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: twentieth century, I think slightly before the twentieth century as 378 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: psychology started develop one of the first things that said 379 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: is like, this is right up our alley, We're gonna 380 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: take this over. And in nineteen o four in Austrian 381 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: scientists named Friedrich Solomon Krauss uh coined the term paraphilias 382 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: and it started to kind of transition into the scientific study. Yeah, 383 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: and there's another guy named John on Money or Money. 384 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: I want to say money, because if he's a sexologist 385 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: named John Money that it doesn't get any better than that. Uh. 386 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: And apparently he's he's a really prominent researcher of paraphilia 387 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: and he kind of brought it into the forefront as 388 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: far as using that word. Yeah, And I mean, just 389 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: because you know, Friedrich Solomon Krauss coined it in nineteen 390 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: o four doesn't mean that psychology adopted it. And it 391 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: wasn't until nineteen eighty that the d s M started 392 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: using paraphilia in place of sexual deviance night. Yeah, so 393 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: they've got at catching up to do, and what they're 394 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: involved in right now is trying to figure out what 395 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: the heck is going on and exactly where the boundaries 396 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: are between what they're supposed to be studying and what 397 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: they what's none of their business really. Yeah, And there's 398 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: a couple of um, a couple of psychological manuals that 399 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: are often looked to. And we talked a lot about 400 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: on the show about the d s M, the Diagnostic 401 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. We haven't talked as 402 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: much about the International Statistical Classification of Diseases. There's a 403 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: good reason for that, chuck, because neither one of us 404 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: knew it existed. I didn't know it existed. And apparently 405 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: here in the States, people default to the d s 406 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: M a lot, which is why we you know, know 407 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: more much more about it obviously. Uh. The i c 408 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: D is published by the WHO, the World Health Organization UM, 409 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: but they use uh, they don't offer a definition, even 410 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: a blanket definition of paraphilia. So the d s M 411 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: is sort of the default. And it's it's important that 412 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: it's uh that it's used, because the d s M 413 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: is used. I mean, this can determine whether or not 414 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: you get custody of your kids or like they're real world, 415 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: real world ramifications for sure, for um, having a paraphilia 416 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: and and do you say having a paraphilia or engaging 417 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: in paraphilic acts. Probably both. But it's you know, it's 418 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: not just like we want to label people like there 419 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: are consequences whether illegal or not illegal. You know, someone 420 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: could go into divorce court and say, you know what, 421 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: my husband, um can only achieve orgasm in a in 422 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: a high heel stiletto heal, and a judge might think 423 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: that's perverse and deny custody. Right. Yeah, so that I 424 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: mean that's a big deal because if you if you 425 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: think about it, like psychology isn't getting together and saying 426 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: we're going to create this book that outlines what's normal 427 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: and acceptable for human beings, and you guys go use 428 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: it to throw somebody in jail. That's not the point. 429 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: They're doing it to try to help people who need help, right, 430 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: But they that doesn't mean that other people aren't coming 431 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: along and figuring out how to use that to put 432 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: other people in jail or gain custody of their children. 433 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: I mean, there's really no faster way to undermine someone's 434 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: credibility or just cast aspersions on them. Um is it 435 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: aspersions or dispersions? Dispersions? I think cast dispersions on them 436 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: then to frame them as a sex pervert in court 437 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: when you're talking about custody of children. Right, that's it. 438 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,479 Speaker 1: So psychology has figured out, or psychiatry has figured out 439 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 1: in the last few years, like it just doesn't operate 440 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: in a vacuum, and it has to really pay attention 441 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: to what it publishes in this Bible of normalcy that 442 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: is the d s M. And they're getting better at it, 443 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: but they still have a long ways to go, but 444 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: at least they're awake to this idea that no, no, no, 445 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: this stuff we say is normal. We have to we 446 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: have to we have to word it just so because 447 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: if we do it wrong, people are going to go 448 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: to prison for a very long time, especially when they 449 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: might not should be in prison necessarily. Yeah, especially when 450 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: they use words like unusual and bizarre in official definitions 451 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: because that's so subjective. Um. And again it's it's not 452 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: a legal manual, so it's it's very tricky territory. But 453 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: the words are really really important. So they started out 454 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: they were um, I think in the first d s M, 455 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: paraphelia was called sexual deviance and the definition was just 456 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: forget about it, and then it evolved all they got 457 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: better from there until the d s M three, where 458 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: they said that a paraphilia. Um said that bizarre imagery 459 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: or acts were necessary for sexual excitement, and that these 460 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: imagery and acts were persistent, involuntary, repetitive, and involved. And 461 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: this is this is a big deal because what's just 462 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: gone is um kind of the persistence or the intensity 463 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: of it. And then now they're kind of getting into 464 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: the meat of what makes a paraphila paraphilia It involves 465 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: a preference for the use of a non human object, 466 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: repetitive repetitive sexual activity with humans involving real or stimulated 467 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: suffering or humiliation, or repetitive sexual activity with non consending partners. 468 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: Subway creeps, right or um, you know pedophiles or um, yeah, 469 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: f subway creeps. So do you've you've you've They really 470 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: kind of hit it on the head. I think with 471 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: the D s M three are if you ask me, 472 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: like they said, here are some things that are you know, 473 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: we consider atypical, and that some and that here's how 474 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: they can be problematic. Yeah, I think calling it unusual 475 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: and bizarre was sort of the problem with n D 476 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: s M three, right, um, And is that not in 477 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: four and five? So four definitely had a different definition 478 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: that we're still talking about Led Zeppelin albums. Yeah, exactly 479 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: that one, said Zoe. So um it said recurrent intense, 480 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: sexually arousing fantasies, sexual or just or behaviors generally involving 481 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: non human objects, the suffering or humiliation of oneself or 482 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: one's partner. And so there's a real preoccupation with b 483 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: DSM among psychiatrists. Don't ever let a psychiatrist tell you otherwise, 484 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: because they're lying to your face. And then the third 485 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: one is children or other non consenting persons that occur 486 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: over a period of at least six months. So they 487 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: dropped unusual and bizarre. Then they did which rightfully. So 488 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: they also called out children specifically, I think, um kind 489 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: to add a little bit of legality to the whole 490 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: thing and to kind of say like, this is a separate, 491 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: special case, you know, this is beyond just non consenting. 492 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: And then they added that it has to persist for 493 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: at least six months. Yeah, that's interesting, because up to 494 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: six months it's just a bad, a bad streak you're on. 495 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: I guess so um I did everywhere I look though 496 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: in other places too, outside the d s M. I 497 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: did see where these um uh predilections is that the 498 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: right word are basically permanent, so it's not like it changes. 499 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: So if you've got a thing for the high heel shoe, uh, 500 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: you're probably always going to have a thing for the 501 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: high heel shoe. And in the same way, if you 502 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: have a thing for children, you're probably always going to 503 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: have a thing for children, which is a big problem. 504 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: And I was joking by the way that there's a 505 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, anything up to six months is just a 506 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: bad streak, especially when you're involved with uh, if you 507 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: have a paraphilia that involves a non consenting person. Yeah, 508 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: but I wonder why they said that for six months, 509 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: I mean just a I don't know, it seems like 510 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: it that may maybe should just be for any amount 511 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: of time. Yeah, I think I think they are. I 512 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: think they're kind of moving into the right direction. Where 513 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: So in the d s M five it's unclear whether 514 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: the d s M five actually changed the definition or not. 515 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,479 Speaker 1: This article says that it stayed the same. But what 516 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: they did was they separated them out and said, Okay, look, 517 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: we recognize that there are they're a typical sexual um 518 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 1: proclivities that don't harm anybody. They're just not typical, you know, 519 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: like not everybody um has a thing for women's high 520 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: heeled shoe or the tail pipe of air Wolf for something. 521 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: You know, like not everyone does. But as long as 522 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: you're not harming anybody, and it's not having a negative 523 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: effect on your life and you're not distressed by it, 524 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 1: if you're out there living your best life, you know, 525 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: wearing women's high heeled shoes around your house and just 526 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: loving every minute of it, like, go with God, that's great. 527 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: You know, there's that's fine. That's that's that's different. We're 528 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: just going to call it a paraphilia. Paraphilic disorder is 529 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: where it does cause the stress or it does involve 530 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: somebody else who doesn't want to be involved. And now 531 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: now this is what we should be paying attention to. 532 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: And then so people say, okay, that's great psychology, you're 533 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: going in the right direction here, but just get paraphilias 534 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: out of there entirely, like, just just don't even include those, 535 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: because what they warn against is the fact that it's 536 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: in this d s M, this Bible of normalcy. The 537 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: very fact that it's in there suggests that there's something 538 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: weird about it and abnormal about it. Psychia psychiatry said 539 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: as much by including it, it's like a mental disorder 540 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: of some kind. Right, and so even if you don't 541 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: fit the criteria for a disorder diagnosis a paraphilic disorder, 542 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: if you say where women choose around, even if you're 543 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: enjoying it, you still are in the the the Bible 544 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,479 Speaker 1: of normalcy called out as a weirdo, and then that 545 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: kind of thing can be used against you in like 546 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: a custody hearing when it really shouldn't be. You're probably 547 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: not going to be wearing your high heels in front 548 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: of your kids because you're probably involved in sexy time. 549 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: And if you are doing that in front of your kids, 550 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: you've got a whole other disorder that needs to be 551 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: addressed that really has little then nothing to do with 552 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: high heels. That's right. So this is where this is 553 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: the hornets nest that is currently paraphilias and the d 554 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: s M and psychiatry in general. Yeah, for sure, Um, 555 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: should we take another break? Sure? Man, all right, let's 556 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: take a break, and we're gonna talk about why humans 557 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: have paraphilias to begin with, right for this stop stop 558 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: all right. So we're talking a lot about a lot 559 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: of interesting things. Some people might think this is pretty 560 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: out there that someone would make love to a car. Sure, maybe, 561 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: but I'll bet if you really got to know your neighbor, 562 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: you'd be pretty surprised. Yeah, who was it to sing 563 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: that song? No one knows what goes on behind closed doors? 564 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: I think you're thinking of that song about um. Nobody 565 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: knows what it's like to be the bad man behind 566 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: blue eyes? That one. That's the Who, that's the World 567 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: Health Organization, that's John Fogerty. What. I'm pretty sure that's 568 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: John Fogertty behind blue Eyes. I'll give you Bob seekers a. 569 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: Maybe it's the Who. It's on quadrupin. All right, So 570 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: chop Fogty, what song were you talking about? What folkty song? 571 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: Did you mean? Oh? I didn't mean I'm so mad 572 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: at you right now? So? Uh where where was I even? Okay, 573 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: here's the deal. Why do we have paraphilias? You hear 574 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: these things. It might sound very unusual to you, but 575 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: there are still people that you know, they didn't wake 576 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: up one day and say, you know what, I'm gonna try. 577 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna try making up to a car for kicks, 578 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: Like this is something that is in someone's brain. Um, 579 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: some might argue in their heart, depending on how you 580 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: feel about stuff like that. Uh, it's not some some 581 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: choice that someone is making just to be different. Uh. 582 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: They found that it's probably genetic and probably caused by 583 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: environmental factors, some mixture of both. They can't point to 584 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: some gene and say, hey, here's the gene that causes 585 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 1: an obsession with an object. But um, and they can't 586 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 1: say for sure what behaviors like environmental factors and behaviors 587 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: at home might lead to it, or how much you know? 588 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: I know for years and still, like Freudian psychologists are 589 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: bounded determined to say that, you know, if your mom 590 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: spanked you, then you're gonna want to be spanked sexually 591 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: later in life by a woman you hired who looks 592 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: just like your mom. Right, But that is very, very reductive. 593 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 1: And although that you know things that happen in your 594 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: childhood may play out later on, you can't always say 595 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: exactly how. Yeah, so you might ask, well, then what 596 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: the psychology what? What? What? What can psychology explain? Nothing? Basically, 597 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: nothing about paraphilias is understood how they develop, and there's 598 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: so many competing voices like you said, not really one 599 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: of them has been proven wrong. They've all kind of 600 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: got their support and their detractors and their different schools 601 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: of thought, which is a really it's a head scratcher 602 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: in this day and age and nearly two thousand and 603 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: twenty that we have virtually no idea how paraphilias form, Like, 604 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 1: like you said, are they genetic? Who knows, Maybe maybe 605 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: we will find a gene one day. But what about 606 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: what about nurture? I mean, like we all developed sexually 607 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: at a certain rate and at a certain time and 608 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: under certain circumstances. So if you know, you happen to 609 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: get a late spanking right around the time that you're 610 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: you're becoming uh pubescent, maybe you will kind of get 611 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: a little turned on by spanking. Or if you look 612 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,959 Speaker 1: at a shoe store, you know, right right sure yeah? 613 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,760 Speaker 1: Or um, you know, if you're if you were raised 614 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: in a very sexually repressive environment, well maybe that sexuality 615 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: has to come out somewhere and it's going to come 616 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: out onto mom's shoes or something like that. You know, 617 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: like it's going to find a way, just like you know, 618 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park did, so will budding sexuality 619 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: and a young kid, it's going to find it's its 620 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: way out, and then maybe that's where parapheles come from. 621 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: They really have no idea, but they have done studies 622 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: that that actually don't clear anything up at all. Yeah, 623 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 1: the studies are problematic for a couple of reasons. One 624 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: is because a lot of times their studies conducted on 625 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: criminal behaviors. Almost all of it is because they're the 626 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 1: ones that are in jail, and they're the ones easiest 627 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: to study. And it's hard to get uh, someone that's 628 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: not a criminal, just in regular society to step forward 629 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: and take a survey and be super honest about something 630 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: that maybe their deepest, darkest secret. So it's really hard 631 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: and problematic too to study. And um, they have found 632 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: a few things as far as the genetic component goes. 633 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: There was one study of five families where they had 634 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: confirmed pedophiles and they found a lot of evidence that 635 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: pedophilia can be multi generational in some families and then 636 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: across single generations and others like, um, three brothers are 637 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,720 Speaker 1: all pedophiles and single family and so you would say, well, 638 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: you know, obviously there's a genetic basis, but a behaviorist 639 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: would say, well, yeah, well maybe that you know, it's 640 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: it's spans multiple generations because it was a learned behavior 641 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: and it was carried on in that way, So it's 642 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: not it doesn't clear up anything whatsoever. Uh. They usually 643 00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: find paraphilias between uh men ages of fifty, although it 644 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: can vary wildly, of course, And there are other reasons 645 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 1: that people put forward that maybe they've generally found them 646 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: in men and not women. Um, how we study things 647 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 1: with a male slant could be one. Uh, the fact 648 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,240 Speaker 1: that men may be more apt to act out, maybe 649 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: in a violent way if that's their paraphilia, or brazen 650 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: enough to get on the subway and do something like that. 651 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: It's also way more socially acceptable for say, an exhibitionist 652 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: woman to get into film and be able to to 653 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,479 Speaker 1: fulfill her exhibitionism that way, whereas we don't usually film 654 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: naked men very often, so the exhibitionist man needs to 655 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: just kind of walk around town donald ducking porky pigging it. 656 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: That's what I mean. I'm sure that the Disney Corporation 657 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,919 Speaker 1: is happy with either one of the definitions. Yeah or yeah, 658 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: as Warner Brothers in Disney, they're both mad. Yeah, they 659 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: did find in that same study some co morbidities with 660 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: low intelligence, and interestingly deafness and blindness is interesting. And 661 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: then some other studies have found some predominance in left 662 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: handed people. Yeah, again, none of that means anything at 663 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: this point. It's just just just here's the data point 664 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: I turned up from five families. It's so, you know, 665 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 1: it's it's not very good study, right. That's sexologist John 666 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: money he Um he wrote in the eighties. He wrote 667 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: a book called Love Maps and I think six that 668 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: was really authoritative on UM paraphilias. And his thing was that, 669 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's learned behavior that comes at a 670 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: certain point, and our love map, which combines like love 671 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 1: and lust in in normal ways, gets vandalized in some 672 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 1: way from some traumatic experience or it could also be 673 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,760 Speaker 1: in some fun experience. But um, the introduction of this 674 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 1: this additional data point in the development of this love 675 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: map UM creates creates a paraphilia that has to be 676 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: UM I guess corrected through something like cognitive behavioral therapy. 677 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: Sometimes drugs are used SSR, eyes are used, sometimes UM, 678 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,919 Speaker 1: and then in certain cases they'll use things like UM 679 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: chemical castration. Actually, yeah, we talked about that in a 680 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: few episodes. I feel like, ah, yeah, I don't remember 681 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: which ones, well, definitely the one with with what's his name? 682 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: The Enigma Machine, Alan Turning with Alan Turing because he 683 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: was chemically castrated. Did we do an episode on the 684 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: Enigma Machine. No, but we talked about him, and I 685 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 1: believe or was that just the TV show with the 686 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: Turing test with caps? I don't remember. It's all such 687 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,359 Speaker 1: a fault right now. It really, UM here's something. If 688 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: you ever hear someone in conversation say, you know, if 689 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: you were sexually abused as a child, then statistically you're 690 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: going to grow up and do that someone else. Not true? 691 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 1: I saw both. Really, I saw that it is true, 692 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 1: and I saw that was largely refuted. Now, yeah, I 693 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,320 Speaker 1: I saw something on I found a site called smart 694 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,959 Speaker 1: dot gov. It sounds made up, but it seems real. 695 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: But it was about paraphilias from a UM criminal justice 696 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: point of view, and it said outright that it's not 697 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: a guarantee in any way, shape or form, but that 698 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: people who um sexually abused children or are sexually abused 699 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: as children are more likely to sexually abused children than 700 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: people who weren't sexually abused as children. How interesting, Yeah, 701 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: which is I mean that brings up a really important 702 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: point here. Um, there's a big distinction between sexually abusing 703 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,399 Speaker 1: a child, raping a child, and being a pedophile. They're 704 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: not necessarily one and the same. Well what in that Uh, 705 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: A pedophile can be a pedophile and not act upon 706 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,279 Speaker 1: that instinct. That's one version. Another version is if you're 707 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: a child apist, you might not really have much of 708 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: a desire for children. You just had a desire to 709 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 1: rape somebody and that child happened to be handy at 710 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: the time. So there is there's in two different ways 711 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,800 Speaker 1: at least, there's a distinction between pedophilia and child rape. 712 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: And this is where that whole legality thing kind of 713 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: comes in, oh right, And that paraphilia is not a 714 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: legal defense. So if you commit a sex crime, you 715 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: can't go to court and say, I plead a paraphy paraphiliac. Yeah, 716 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,720 Speaker 1: which is kind of surprising because if you kill somebody 717 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 1: and you go and say I, UM, I have been 718 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:42,879 Speaker 1: diagnosed with schizophrenia, they're probably not going to um give 719 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: you the death sentence. Where if you are if you're 720 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,399 Speaker 1: diagnosed with a paraphilic disorder, they're going to totally set 721 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: that aside in in considering you know, how you should 722 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,959 Speaker 1: be punished. What's weird, though, Chuck, is since the act 723 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,839 Speaker 1: actual opposite has been allowed to develop too. Where if 724 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: they convict you of something as a sexual violent sexual 725 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 1: sexually violent predator s VP. I believe it's what it's called, right, 726 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 1: they can keep you in jail longer. They won't keep 727 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: you in jail, but they'll say, um, this person shows 728 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: that they have signs of being like, uh, they have 729 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: a paraphilia toward child molestation. Uh there towards um pedophilia. Um. 730 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,919 Speaker 1: So they've served their sentence for attacking this child. But 731 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: now under the law, we can actually commit them to 732 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: uh like a mental asylum a hospital indefinitely to keep 733 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: them from harming somebody else. So that's that's one way 734 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: that that the the d s M can be used 735 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,439 Speaker 1: to keep people in in jail for crimes they even 736 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 1: even commit. Did this is like the prevention of future crime, 737 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 1: which as far as I know, is completely, um completely 738 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,359 Speaker 1: contravenes the spirit of the law in the United States. Right, Yeah, 739 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: I mean that's a minority reports stuff, but that's what 740 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 1: they've been doing using the d s M, and for 741 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: a little while there they were able to do it 742 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: because the d s M had the word or in 743 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: the wrong place that allow that basically said you you 744 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: qualify as the definition of somebody with a paraphilic disorder 745 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 1: if you've committed committed a criminal act that has something 746 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,839 Speaker 1: to do with the paraphilia. UM. Now, it's that that's 747 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,800 Speaker 1: part of the criteria. It's not its own criteria. But 748 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 1: for a while it allowed these laws to basically say, Yep, 749 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: this person committed the criminal act. By definition, they have 750 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: a paraphilic disorder, and pair of people with paraphilic disorders 751 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: have basically a chronic, ongoing um it's illness disorder that 752 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: that we need to them out of society indefinitely. For Yeah, 753 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that you have seen the great, 754 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 1: great documentary Capturing the Freedman's from two thousand three, and 755 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: by talk about a documentary to really take you on 756 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,399 Speaker 1: a roller coaster of how you feel about things like this. 757 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: Um I remember, I mean I've only seen it the 758 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,840 Speaker 1: one time way back when, but it just rocked my world. 759 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: As far as letting you come to your own conclusions, 760 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,320 Speaker 1: which I think the best documentaries do you know. Yeah, 761 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,360 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in a while either, but I 762 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: remember feeling the exact same way about it. Yeah, really 763 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,839 Speaker 1: interesting stuff. Uh what else do we have in here? 764 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 1: I mean we talked about treating it with cognitive behavioral therapy. Uh, 765 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,360 Speaker 1: there's another line of treatment if you. Uh, I mean, 766 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: I guess it's still called treatment, but in that they're 767 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,240 Speaker 1: not trying to say don't do this, but hey, maybe 768 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: we can take something that you clearly want to do 769 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: that's problematic in your life and just um construct your 770 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,360 Speaker 1: life in a way so it's not so problematic and 771 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 1: you can still do that and it's not causing you 772 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: or anyone else any harm and make it a positive 773 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 1: part of your sexual identity. Yeah, I would guess, like, 774 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: for example, something like cross stressing. I think it's a 775 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,400 Speaker 1: really good example of how somebody might feel distress about 776 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 1: um about having that paraphilia where they could really benefit 777 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: from cognitive behavioral therapy with a therapist who basically said, hey, 778 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: you know, is this is your Is your wife okay 779 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: with this? Yeah? Like, or what's the problem here? Is 780 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: it really because you're disappointing your parents? Maybe that is it? Well, 781 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: barn'th your parents are dead, they aren't paying attention anymore. 782 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 1: If you really are enjoying yourself, like, maybe just go 783 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: with it. It doesn't matter what society says. That is 784 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: a that would be a really beneficial um situation for 785 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,719 Speaker 1: somebody who is experiencing some some level of distress where 786 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,359 Speaker 1: it just came from the fact that they had an 787 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,879 Speaker 1: atypical sexual proclivity and they were distressed by the fact 788 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: that it it contravened or it was in contradiction with 789 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 1: society's norms or expectations, and that was it. That was 790 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: the whole problem, right, Or if there's a real world 791 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: situation like it's butting up against your job or a 792 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,280 Speaker 1: social relationship maybe constructed in a way where it doesn't 793 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,319 Speaker 1: do those things, and then it's just you know, it's 794 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: all good. Yeah, maybe save the animals for after work, Like, 795 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,359 Speaker 1: don't leave work to go get an enema unless your 796 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:28,239 Speaker 1: job is giving enemas, then you're in hog Heaven. I guess. 797 00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,759 Speaker 1: So that one, by the way, is called let me 798 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: see if I can find it real quick. What do 799 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 1: you have a master list on your phone? There? No, 800 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,959 Speaker 1: I just wrote that one down. Oh yeah right here. Uh. 801 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: Klismaphilia really that is a that is a paraphilia regarding 802 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: receiving enemas as far as I can tell, So you 803 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:52,040 Speaker 1: would receive an enema in order to achieve completion. That's right. Interesting. Yeah, 804 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:57,080 Speaker 1: I feel like there's probably nothing that isn't defined. I 805 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 1: think it's one of those things you know, what's that 806 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 1: was it rule forty two where um, if if it exists, 807 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 1: there's internet, there's porn about it. Yeah. I mean the 808 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 1: internet is is in a good way, has brought these 809 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 1: people together because of many many people for many many 810 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,880 Speaker 1: years felt very alone, uh in this stuff. And um, 811 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 1: and we should also shout out kind of loose friend 812 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 1: of the show, Kevin Allison from the comedy Troupe of 813 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 1: the State on MTV many years ago. He has a 814 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,480 Speaker 1: great podcast called Risk. Uh all caps are I SK 815 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,440 Speaker 1: exclamation point and Risk doesn't necessarily deal with this, It 816 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: deals with UM. It's just really good people telling kind 817 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,360 Speaker 1: of risky stories about their life that they normally wouldn't 818 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 1: tell in a room full of people. Um. But Kevin 819 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,920 Speaker 1: is also championed, UH, champion fetishes in the people in 820 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:53,839 Speaker 1: paraphilias basically consenting PARAPHILIAX who don't have a disorder and 821 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 1: kind of helping them to be right with themselves and 822 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,319 Speaker 1: to be more excepting of others. It's really kind of 823 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: interesting and cool. Yeah. I think that's the way it 824 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,759 Speaker 1: should be. I feel like, if somebody has a kink 825 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: that that you don't jibe with, but that doesn't have 826 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,319 Speaker 1: anything to do with you, just remember it doesn't have 827 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,239 Speaker 1: anything to do with you and don't judge them. Yeah, 828 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: Kevin's a really really good dude. Yeah, that's cool. Way 829 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:21,719 Speaker 1: to go, Kevin. You're doing God's work. So uh oh, 830 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: by the way, it's rule forty four, Lowell corrected me. 831 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: Thanks Lowell. What do you say rule forty two? Yeah? 832 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 1: I think I said forty two. I don't know forty 833 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: forty four, whatever it takes. I was thinking of the 834 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:37,520 Speaker 1: hit Man agent forty two. That's forty six, right, So 835 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,839 Speaker 1: you got anything else? I got nothing else? Alright. Well, 836 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,359 Speaker 1: look for some more more specialized episodes on paraphilias coming 837 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 1: down the pike. But for now, that's paraphilia. If you 838 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,240 Speaker 1: want to know more about paraphilia, the internet is wide 839 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: open for you. That's right. Since I said that, it's 840 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:58,480 Speaker 1: time for a listener mail. The governor is off the 841 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 1: internet is is ready to be goosed? Yes, goosed? I 842 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,400 Speaker 1: meant that is like an engine revving thing. Not never mind, 843 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,439 Speaker 1: I know it's you man. Yeah, this is a short one. 844 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: Hey guys, Remember we had that listener mail from between 845 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,560 Speaker 1: Jeremy and Kate. Yeah, yeah, from the MSG episode about 846 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,959 Speaker 1: the Chicago thing. So we have Maggie chiming in now. 847 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,719 Speaker 1: All these people are so kind. I love it your listener, Maile. 848 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,920 Speaker 1: Conversation between Jeremy and Kate from Thursday's MSG episode had 849 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: me smiling, and after the mail from Veronica, I couldn't 850 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 1: help but continue this trend. So to Veronica, I am 851 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,240 Speaker 1: also a stuff you should know, a listener and also 852 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,080 Speaker 1: a teacher in Chicago, and I was also at that show. 853 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,759 Speaker 1: Being a first year teacher is extremely challenging in so 854 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,799 Speaker 1: many different ways, So please be sure to make to 855 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: take time to take care of yourself and stay positive. 856 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,200 Speaker 1: I promise it gets easier. Good luck with a new job, 857 00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 1: and welcome to Chicago from Maggie Beautiful. That was so nice. Maggie. People, 858 00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,359 Speaker 1: we're basically gonna turn listen or mail into a what 859 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,799 Speaker 1: was that? What's that one? Section? Like I saw you 860 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,799 Speaker 1: somewhere like Uh, were you the guy on the train 861 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,440 Speaker 1: who helps helps me through the door. I want to 862 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,799 Speaker 1: meet you and bring your puppy to our date. That's right? Yes, 863 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,040 Speaker 1: Well regardless, I think that was very sweet. Who is 864 00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,640 Speaker 1: that from Maggie? Maggie, that was really cool email. And 865 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,680 Speaker 1: congratulations to you also for being a teacher. You two 866 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: are doing God's work. That's a new thing. I'm going 867 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,640 Speaker 1: to say, maybe that'll be a T shirt. I do 868 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,279 Speaker 1: God's work. I listened to Stuff you Should Know. I 869 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,799 Speaker 1: love it. Okay, Well, if you want to get in 870 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,560 Speaker 1: touch with this like Maggie did, or if you want 871 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,080 Speaker 1: to get in touch with another listener, apparently you can 872 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,200 Speaker 1: go on to stuff you Should Know dot com and 873 00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,680 Speaker 1: follow our social links. You can also send us an 874 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:53,960 Speaker 1: email to stuff podcast at i heeart radio dot com. 875 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,200 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radios. 876 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,799 Speaker 1: How stuff works for more podcasts for my heart radio 877 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,440 Speaker 1: is that the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts are wherever 878 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:02,720 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite ships.