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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young girl striking

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Speaker 1: out on her own, has this awesome condo in Florida,

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Speaker 1: an awesome job, an awesome boyfriend, gets ready to go

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Speaker 1: to work one morning. If you look at her apartment,

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Speaker 1: you can see where she's laid out several outfits, trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what to wear. But then she's never

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Speaker 1: seen again. Jennifer, What happened to Jennifer Kessey with me today?

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Speaker 1: Her family joining in not only with the latest about

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Speaker 1: a phantom figure that may have kidnapped Jennifer, but a

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Speaker 1: full on book written about the aftermath of her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Nancy Grace, this is crime Story. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation and series

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Speaker 1: exem one eleven. First of all, take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our friends. At forty eight hours, twenty four year old

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Speaker 1: Jennifer seemed to have everything going for her. She had

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Speaker 1: bought a brand new condo in Orlando, she'd been promoted

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Speaker 1: at work, and there was a new man in her life.

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Speaker 1: She was intelligent, she was captivating, She had a sense

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Speaker 1: of humor. One of the first conversations we had ended

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Speaker 1: up being like five hours. Rob Allen a thirty two

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Speaker 1: year old Englishman lived two and a half hours away

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Speaker 1: in Fort Lauderdale. The couple had been dating for a

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Speaker 1: year and saw each other every other weekend. So glad

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Speaker 1: that Rob Allen is speaking out. Because of course, everyone

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Speaker 1: immediately assumed her disappearance was connected to her boyfriend, but

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Speaker 1: it was not. But she fails to show up to

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Speaker 1: work that morning, Listen, Jennifer failed to show up for

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Speaker 1: a meeting at work. Her co workers at Westgate Resorts

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Speaker 1: could reach her on her cell phone or at home,

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Speaker 1: so they called her parents. I got the phone call

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Speaker 1: from her employer that she had not shown up. Was

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Speaker 1: there a family emergency? I immediately panicked because Jen's cell

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Speaker 1: phone has never been turned off. Joyce called the manager

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Speaker 1: of Jen's apartment complex. He went to her unit. Jennifer

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Speaker 1: wasn't there, neither was her car. You know, interesting that

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Speaker 1: she's not picking up her phone, because as it is now,

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Speaker 1: who is ever very far away from their phone, much

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Speaker 1: less a young person like Jennifer Kessey With me an

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Speaker 1: I'll star panel, but first I want to go to

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Speaker 1: Bill Gilmore, Jennifer's beloved uncle, who has taken part in

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Speaker 1: all of the efforts to find Jennifer after she goes

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Speaker 1: missing that morning on her way to work. He's now

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Speaker 1: coming out with a book, Aftermath of Jennifer, Cassie's Abduction

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Speaker 1: and Uncle's Inspiring Journey and other stories of hope. Bill.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when he first heard that Jennifer was missing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget it. My sister had been trying, My

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Speaker 1: wife and I and our family lived in Lake Mary,

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Speaker 1: so we were about forty minutes from where jen lived

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Speaker 1: down in Orlando, and so she started calling me right

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Speaker 1: off the bat in the morning, but I was in

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Speaker 1: the air. I was traveling to New Jersey. We played

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Speaker 1: telephone tag and it wasn't until six o'clock that night

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Speaker 1: that I've learned, And of course we were just all stunned.

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Speaker 1: But at that point all we knew was she was

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Speaker 1: missing and she hadn't showed up for work. They by

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Speaker 1: that time they had arrived at the condo, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was just that in the early stages, I mean,

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Speaker 1: everybody's hearts were just palpainting. We just overwhelmed with what happened.

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Speaker 1: And there was never a point before that moment that

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Speaker 1: Jennifer had just flaked out, had disappeared. For a weekend

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Speaker 1: or when I hear so this person just wanted space,

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Speaker 1: wanted to go out on her own. That was not Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: that's correct. I mean, Jennifer was one of these people

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Speaker 1: that so attentive and respectful. If she wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: be somewhere, she'd call let you know if she was

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Speaker 1: running late, even to the point in terms of security,

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Speaker 1: which is amazing that if she was leaving a mall

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Speaker 1: in the evening hours in dark, she would be on

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Speaker 1: the phone talking to somebody until she got into her

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Speaker 1: car and locked the door. That was you know that

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Speaker 1: she was very conscious of her surroundings. You know that's

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Speaker 1: really interesting. You know Bill Gilmore, Jennifer's beloved uncle, who

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Speaker 1: has now after taking part in every aspect of the

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Speaker 1: search for Jennifer, actually written a book aftermath of Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Kessey's abduction. I didn't know that about Jennifer. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that she was a safety, not like myself. And

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Speaker 1: it's so interesting. My son went to a little school

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Speaker 1: party get together and my daughter and Na got a

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Speaker 1: chance to be alone last night, and we were to

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Speaker 1: one of our favorite places for vegetables. We came out

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Speaker 1: the sun hadn't quite set yet, but we got in

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Speaker 1: the car and my daughter, who's just forty, he said, Mom,

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Speaker 1: remember locked the door, glanced in the backseat, and then

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Speaker 1: locked the door immediately. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I did not

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Speaker 1: know Jennifer was liking that. Tell me about that, because

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Speaker 1: that really, to me, is very probitive of how she

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Speaker 1: was to how she was kidnapped, right, And so that's

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Speaker 1: why I think that's what what was so concerning to

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Speaker 1: us as the family. I know, extremely frustrating my sister

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Speaker 1: and brother law at the time, is that they're trying

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Speaker 1: to explain to law enforcement that this is her character

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't just them. Her employer said the same thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, numerous people were saying that, no, this is

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Speaker 1: out of character, but they wanted to focus on the narrative.

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Speaker 1: It was a young couple had a spat, she you know,

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Speaker 1: just kind of walked off on her own. Oh I

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Speaker 1: hate that. I hate that so much. Wait wait wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait wait wait is that true? Ray Kiputo, Ray Kiputo,

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Speaker 1: everyone invest to get every reporter out of Orlando, and

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Speaker 1: professor at Betane Cookman University, Ray Kaputo, I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: that that was their focus at the beginning, that she

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Speaker 1: and the boyfriend we just heard talking, Rob Allen, had

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Speaker 1: had an argument, so she just stalked off. Really, then,

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Speaker 1: why didn't she land all those clothes to go to work.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you're going to stop off, why don't

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Speaker 1: you do it at seven o'clock in the morning for

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Speaker 1: Pete's sake? I mean, she was getting ready for work.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that was their focus at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Ray Nancy like, that's the narrative that the couple had

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Speaker 1: a fight. But but here's the thing is that this

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Speaker 1: is a couple that just went on this tropical vacation

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Speaker 1: to Saint Croix. They were in a long term, a

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Speaker 1: long distance relationship, so they have this emotional rollercoaster high

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Speaker 1: being with all these friends in the beach and the sun.

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Speaker 1: You know, got some tom cruise guy flipping drinks, and

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Speaker 1: then Jennifer comes back and drives all the way to work,

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Speaker 1: you know. So they say it's a narrative of a

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Speaker 1: couple got into Flay, but Jennifer, which is in a

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Speaker 1: long distance relationship, so they had a bit of a

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Speaker 1: lover spat, you know, and that's not out of the

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Speaker 1: ordinary given their conditions. So they did have an argument.

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Speaker 1: They had what would rob called, you know, a minor disagreement,

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Speaker 1: you know, a spat between of spouses significant others. Okay,

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Speaker 1: hold on, why Karen start joining me? Psychologists joining us

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Speaker 1: out of Manhattan today? You can find her at karen

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Speaker 1: start dot com. That's Karen with a se Karen after

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Speaker 1: a lot of vacation, which is wonderful. But then I

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Speaker 1: heard him say an island. Then you come back with

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Speaker 1: your passports and you're tired, and then you get to

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Speaker 1: the airport, and then you go through the whole coming

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Speaker 1: into the country drama with your passport, and then you

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Speaker 1: have to find your luggage, and then you have to

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Speaker 1: drag your luggage to the car, and then you split

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Speaker 1: up and he goes one way, she goes the other.

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Speaker 1: I could understand why you would have an argument. I

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Speaker 1: can't tell you how many times David and I have

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Speaker 1: had it out over the baggage claims. Okay, it's just

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Speaker 1: because we're tired, the children are hungry, and so forth

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Speaker 1: and so on. I mean, it happens even after this

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Speaker 1: incredible vacation you may have had. So I'm not putting

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of stock in that. But really, Karen Start,

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Speaker 1: the reality is he was in this town, she was

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Speaker 1: in another town. His digital footprints shows he stayed in

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Speaker 1: his home and that she disappeared from her home two

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Speaker 1: hours away. Argument or no argument? By how much stock

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Speaker 1: do you put in a post vacation fuss? Well, not

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Speaker 1: at all, especially because they live in two different places.

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Speaker 1: So here they've had this wonderful experience together and then

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Speaker 1: they have to separate, and they haven't been able to

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Speaker 1: be together the whole time. So Karen start, when they

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Speaker 1: get home, she spends the night at his place, She

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Speaker 1: goes all the way home the next morning to work.

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Speaker 1: The following morning is when she goes missing. He is

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Speaker 1: still at his home. She is at her home a

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Speaker 1: couple of hours away. But Karen Start, the point I

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Speaker 1: was trying to make is that, well, you and Mark,

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Speaker 1: you're very very happy. You travel a lot. When you travel,

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Speaker 1: do you ever get into spats over silly things? I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you something, Nancy, there was a whole article about

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Speaker 1: couple of that fight when they're traveling, and because you're

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Speaker 1: in a new place, it's difficult. You're not used to

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Speaker 1: the surroundings, and you wind up getting into those kind

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Speaker 1: of spats, and it really is dispatch over things that

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Speaker 1: are nonsensical. So whether they thought there during the trip

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Speaker 1: or at the end of the trip, it seems to

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Speaker 1: me from reading this information and watching it that the

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Speaker 1: only reason they were turning to him is because the

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Speaker 1: first suspect is always the boyfriend or the husband, no

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Speaker 1: other reason, you know. Jes Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jackson State University, an author of Blood Beneath My Feet

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Speaker 1: on Amazon. He's a star of a new hit series

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Speaker 1: on iHeart Body Backs with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott

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Speaker 1: all the YadA, YadA YadA about did they argue about

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Speaker 1: the travel It's really irrelevant because the forensics show he

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Speaker 1: was in one town and she was in another town

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Speaker 1: when she was kidnapped. Yeah. Yeah, And you have to

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Speaker 1: have a start starting point though, with any investigation, and

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Speaker 1: it always starts with those that are in the intimate circle.

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Speaker 1: And then once those individuals are eliminated, and when you

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Speaker 1: can actually verify that this subject, this boyfriend was in

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Speaker 1: a completely different area geographically, then he lessens, he lessens

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Speaker 1: in importance on this continuum that we have in investigations

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Speaker 1: and then you begin to focus on the area where

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Speaker 1: she was actually physically last seen, in those environments that

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Speaker 1: she's very familiar with. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a brand new book that's coming out

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Speaker 1: written by Jennifer Kessie's uncle, who was there in the

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Speaker 1: hours and days following her disappearance. She seemingly had it

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Speaker 1: all on u condo. She was living him, wonderful jobs,

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Speaker 1: she just got promoted, absolutely stunning, vibrant, happy, just one

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Speaker 1: of those really good people that emanate happiness, nice to

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Speaker 1: other people, a joy to be with, and then suddenly

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Speaker 1: it says she just drops off the face of the earth.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to what her mom, Joyce Kessie tells me.

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Speaker 1: It's Cassie, what more can you tell me about what time?

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Speaker 1: If you know that she would contact her boyfriend in

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Speaker 1: the morning, jen typically left work between seven thirty and

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Speaker 1: eight in the morning, and it was her habit to

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Speaker 1: call Rob when she got in her car, So as

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Speaker 1: she got in her car and was driving to work

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Speaker 1: is when she would make that good morning call. And

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Speaker 1: as we know, Rob never received that call. And brother

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Speaker 1: loganis in as well. Take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 1: at forty eight hours. I was just like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this can't be happening. A mother called

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Speaker 1: her crying. I was hysterical, she said, Jens, Miss, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Who goes? She hasn't shut

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Speaker 1: off for work. Jennifer's parents and her brother Logan, raced

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Speaker 1: the two hours from their home in Bradington, Florida, to

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Speaker 1: Jen's condo. You go inside, what did you see? The

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Speaker 1: clean apartment, shower was wet, blow dryer out, and Jennifer's

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Speaker 1: father tells, nay more, listen, Drew, Cassie, you get the

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Speaker 1: news that Jennifer did not report to work. You tell

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Speaker 1: me that you immediately jump in the car and drive

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Speaker 1: our plus to get to her condo. Sure, we'll approach

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Speaker 1: the condo complex. Everything was normal to us. We got

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Speaker 1: up to the guard gate and we got let in

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Speaker 1: quite quite quickly. They really don't take a lot of implement.

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Speaker 1: Anyone who had a pass key who lived there could

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Speaker 1: come through on the right side. It looked like she

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Speaker 1: slept in her bed. She had two or three outfits

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Speaker 1: laid out on the bed, as if she was choosing

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Speaker 1: an outfit to wear. She as was stated, the bathroom

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Speaker 1: looked like someone got ready to go to work. The

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Speaker 1: rest of the condo was just perfect day. It honestly

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Speaker 1: looked like a maid came through, right down to a

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Speaker 1: full setting, four p setting table setting on her dining

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Speaker 1: room table. Too. High profile lawyer Matthew Mangino, former district attorney,

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Speaker 1: former Parole board member and author of The Executioner's Toll. Matthew,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Several things. Number One, first,

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Speaker 1: suspects always the boyfriend. He's ruled out. Number Two, the

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Speaker 1: pristine nature of the condo when the family goes in

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Speaker 1: tells me nothing happened in that condo and that that's

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Speaker 1: not where the struggle occurred. Upstairs, you can see the

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Speaker 1: shower is still damp from when she took a shower

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Speaker 1: that morning. In a case like that, as a district attorney,

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Speaker 1: what do you do next? Well, Nancy, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: an unfortunate reality that when police or district attorney law

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Speaker 1: enforcement here's about a missing person, there's always a bit

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Speaker 1: of skepticism. They don't act immediately. They want to know,

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Speaker 1: you know what the circumstances where I think that's why

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Speaker 1: the spat with the boyfriend may have been important to

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Speaker 1: them because they think maybe this is just someone who's

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Speaker 1: upset and you know, went off to reflect and they'll

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Speaker 1: be back. But that's unfortunate because that time immediately after

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Speaker 1: a person goes missing is so important and so crucial

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Speaker 1: to try to get as much evidence as you can

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Speaker 1: in terms of canvassing. What did people see, you know,

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Speaker 1: what did they see her in her car? Did they

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Speaker 1: see her car move? You know, you know it didn't

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Speaker 1: happen in that room or in that apartment because it's

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Speaker 1: not in disarray, so you know it happened immediately if

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Speaker 1: something did happen outside of that apartment. So talking to

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Speaker 1: neighbors and other people with me, Bill Gilmore and Jennifer's

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Speaker 1: uncle and author Aftermath of Jennifer kell Sees Abduction coming out. Bill,

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Speaker 1: tell me about those hours and what you were learning

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Speaker 1: about her condo and her disappearance. Well, I mean I

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Speaker 1: arrived there the next morning because I was up in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, so I was able to find and went

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Speaker 1: directly from the airport to the condo. And obviously family

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Speaker 1: and friends who were gathering, we were all trying to

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Speaker 1: make sense of it and begin to plan just for

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Speaker 1: the missing persons, right, you know, get posters made and

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Speaker 1: started hitting corners and knocking on doors and that type

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Speaker 1: of thing. But yeah, as Drew and Logan and Joyce

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Speaker 1: of all said, I mean, this was just that condo

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Speaker 1: was like any of ours. In the morning, somebody came

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Speaker 1: by and we were in every on our way out

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Speaker 1: the door, you know, looking at outfits or whatever. Just

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Speaker 1: would be just a normal environment. So the gentleman that

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Speaker 1: just spoke is one hundred percent correct. I mean, nothing

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Speaker 1: happened in the condo. So it was somewhere between the

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Speaker 1: door which he left that door and went to the car,

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Speaker 1: and of course, the way the condos were all under

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Speaker 1: conversion from a apartments to the condo units. There weren't

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Speaker 1: I don't think, but a couple of people that were

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Speaker 1: in her building. These were open breezeways to the staircases

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Speaker 1: on either side. So I mean somebody could be easily

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Speaker 1: in that area and you wouldn't necessarily know it. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to imagine those moments when you get there, when

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Speaker 1: you touched down in Orlando and you get to the condo,

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Speaker 1: what was the same. Oh well, I mean my heart

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Speaker 1: was racing. I think like everybody else was We're just

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Speaker 1: sitting there trying to make sense out of what it

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Speaker 1: just happened, and then what do we do? So we

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Speaker 1: obviously just you just begin to do the things that

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Speaker 1: just makes sense and try to get awareness. Drew has

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Speaker 1: done a messabul drive, as you well know, and making

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Speaker 1: sure that Jennifer's story remains in the public eye because

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Speaker 1: someone out there knows something, and it's just a matter

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Speaker 1: of ultimately having those people come forward. But the emotion

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Speaker 1: that for all of us was just we just have

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Speaker 1: to do whatever we could. And that was for two days.

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Speaker 1: So from Tuesday, all day Wednesday until the morning of

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Speaker 1: third we were we just thought she was missing, so

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Speaker 1: we're looking for her car. I'm trying to imagine the

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Speaker 1: tension in the air, and the mom and the dad

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Speaker 1: and you just doing whatever you could think of, making flyers,

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Speaker 1: putting up posters, going door to door, all with the

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Speaker 1: cloud hanging over you that the cars were insisting she

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Speaker 1: had had a spat over nothing with her boyfriend and stopped.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, working with that misconception arching over the investigation

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Speaker 1: didn't help a thing. But as you said, suddenly the

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Speaker 1: car is found. Take a listen to our friend at CBS.

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Speaker 1: Two days after Jennifer went missing, her car was found

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Speaker 1: in an apartment complex parking lot about a mile away

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Speaker 1: from where she lived. But there was no sign of

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Speaker 1: Jennifer and no conclusive DNA. But this surveillance video showed

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Speaker 1: a person parking her car at noon on the day

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Speaker 1: she disappeared being hit with a ton of bricks. The

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Speaker 1: phantom figure then walked away in the direction of Jennifer's complex.

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Speaker 1: The person was so casual, Like to Bill Gilmour, this

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Speaker 1: is Jennifer's uncle, an author of an upcoming book, Aftermath

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Speaker 1: of Jennifer Kessey's Abduction. Bill, tell me about that video. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the luckiest person in the world. And of

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Speaker 1: course the technology at the time when those videos of

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Speaker 1: valence cameras or graining, but they were every other second clips,

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Speaker 1: so there was a fence that that person walked by,

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Speaker 1: and every other frame there was a fence post that

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Speaker 1: was partially blocking their image. Now, for most of us,

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Speaker 1: if you actually knew that person, there was enough that

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Speaker 1: you would identify them. But obviously we didn't know who

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Speaker 1: that person is, and so we've all we've said many times,

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Speaker 1: there's two people that are missing because we have never

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Speaker 1: have come across any information having to do with that

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Speaker 1: person nor Jennifer. So two people, the person of interest

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Speaker 1: in that video and Jennifer did this phantom figure kidnap

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Speaker 1: an all American girl? Jennifer Kessie Straight back out to

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Speaker 1: Ray Kaputo, investigative reporter joining us out of Orlando. Ray again,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Tell me about that

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Speaker 1: parking lot and what we know about this so called

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Speaker 1: phantom figure and also her car. This guy parked her car.

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Speaker 1: Are there, no Prince, no DNA, nothing none. Nancy, her

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Speaker 1: car was found not too far from her own apartment complex,

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Speaker 1: but it was on American of Boulevard. Now, she lived

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Speaker 1: right by this great mall, a lot of tourists coming

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Speaker 1: and going, but right down the street the neighborhood gets sketchy.

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Speaker 1: So this car was pulled into this parking werenot where

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Speaker 1: I've heard they found numerous stolen cars. It's a higher

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Speaker 1: crime area. The person in the car sat there for

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Speaker 1: approximately thirty two seconds before getting out, and police presumed

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Speaker 1: that he may have wiped down the car. Got rid

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Speaker 1: of evidence because they found really nothing. They like a

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Speaker 1: fiber and a small fiber of evidence. No prince. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Whoeber committed this crime. Whoeber was in that car, perhaps

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Speaker 1: knew what they were doing because they watched no evidence.

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Speaker 1: You know. Amazingly, the surrealist video took a photo every

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Speaker 1: three seconds, catching this so called phantom figure, and every

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Speaker 1: three seconds, each time the person's face was obstructed by

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Speaker 1: a recurring fence post. There is a wrought iron fence

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Speaker 1: with thin steaks going up and then every let's just

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Speaker 1: say ten or fifteen wrought iron steaks is a post.

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Speaker 1: And every time the video surrels took a picture, the

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Speaker 1: person's face was obstructed by that recurring post. Jennifer's father

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Speaker 1: tells me more listen from that spot drew from her

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Speaker 1: condo to where the car was found. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the area where the car was found. Was

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Speaker 1: it part at any kind of a business where there

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Speaker 1: could be surveillance video and in that mile stretch? Florida

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Speaker 1: is notorious for all of its tolls, tolls everywhere you go.

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Speaker 1: You gotta have that easy pass at Sunshine Pass. So

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Speaker 1: were there any tolls? Were there any red lights that

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Speaker 1: they have had a red light camera between oh and

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Speaker 1: the gate? Was there a camera at the gate? What

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Speaker 1: do we know about that one mile stretch drew Cassie

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Speaker 1: between Jennifer's condominium, her brand new condominium, and where her

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Speaker 1: black Malibu was found. What we know at this time is,

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Speaker 1: at first there was no cameras. Unfortunately, new cameras went

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Speaker 1: up in Jennifer's complex two weeks after she was taken.

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Speaker 1: We also know that two weeks prior to Jennifer taking

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Speaker 1: the entire security force was let go at the complex

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Speaker 1: and new security was taken on costs them to change

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Speaker 1: from a rental to an ownership situation. The miles stretched

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Speaker 1: in between. There were no cameras in between the one

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Speaker 1: point two miles except four at the complex where Jennifer's

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Speaker 1: car was dropped. Now, we do have in our possession

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Speaker 1: sixty seven hours of film that law enforcement was able

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Speaker 1: to obtain from anywhere in any place they thought viable.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately the big box like Walgreens, CVS, the gas station,

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Speaker 1: their cameras only made it as far as their parking lots,

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Speaker 1: didn't even make it to like the sidewalks. So it's

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Speaker 1: unfortunately anything that we have outside The only viable film

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Speaker 1: that we have is what you see on Jennifer's website.

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Speaker 1: And what have you of a person parking her cars,

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Speaker 1: sitting in at thirty two seconds, wiping it down, getting out,

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Speaker 1: walking away, never looking back. Okay, I'm bringing in the

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Speaker 1: big guns. Joseph Scott Morgan joined me, professor forensics and

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Speaker 1: death investigator. Just got extra really hard for me to believe.

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Speaker 1: This guy did not leave any plants, did not leave

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Speaker 1: any DNA, nothing behind in that car. Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: And when you take a look at the image of

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Speaker 1: him walking by these fence posts, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: begin to look at how he's dressed. It's not like

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Speaker 1: he's got on long sleeves. He's you know, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about Florida obviously, but he's got on what appeared to

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Speaker 1: be maybe white pants, low quarter shoes. They're not work boots.

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Speaker 1: He's got on a short sleeved shirt, which means that

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Speaker 1: you've got bare skin running up to almost the elbow

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Speaker 1: where you've got the potential for transfer of evidence in

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Speaker 1: the form of maybe perhaps touch DNA or sweat or

401
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: hair something like that that could transferred. He's not wearing gloves,

402
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: and this is something else. It's kind of interesting about

403
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Speaker 1: the image that you see as he's walking by, his

404
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: hair it appears it looks as though you can see

405
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Speaker 1: the back of his head. It looks as though he's

406
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Speaker 1: either got like a bowl cut or his hair is

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Speaker 1: pulled up in like what would be a man bun.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of bulging out on the rear, so you

409
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Speaker 1: think that, you know, we're not talking about a bald

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Speaker 1: guy here. To me, it looks shaved up on the

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Speaker 1: side from the neck up above the ear, right behind

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Speaker 1: the ear, and then it comes out like you're saying

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Speaker 1: in a bulge. You know, it does. Another issue regarding

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Speaker 1: the car and the surveillance video, we get more information

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00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: aside from those two leads. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: friend Peter van Zant. The person could not be identified

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Speaker 1: because the surveillance video captured a photo every three seconds,

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Speaker 1: and each time the figure's face was obstructed by a

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Speaker 1: fence post that Kessie's recruited private investigator Michael Tretta to

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Speaker 1: help them conduct their own investigation. Tretta learned from speaking

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Speaker 1: with people who lived in Jennifer's complex that construction workers

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Speaker 1: were living in an empty apartment just across from Jennifer. Okay,

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Speaker 1: straight out to Jennifer's uncle joining us, Bill Gilmore, who

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Speaker 1: has just completed an upcoming book aftermath of Jennifer Cassie's abduction.

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Speaker 1: It took the family having to hire a private investigator

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Speaker 1: to find out construction workers were basically camping out in

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Speaker 1: an empty apartment straight across from Jennifer Cassie. Have you

428
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: ever heard the phrase we covet that which we see? Yes,

429
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: I mean that. The interesting thing was that we were

430
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: on that property for days and weeks, and we saw

431
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: all kinds of things, and we would bring into the

432
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: law enforcement, to the management, and everybody denied everything. They

433
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: always claimed that these folks weren't living on property, but

434
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: it was clearly obvious that they were. So Unfortunately, you know,

435
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: at every turn people just shut down and obviously considering

436
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: potential liability issues. We can understand why, but it doesn't

437
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: help when you're looking to find somebody and that your

438
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: loved one. It's amazing to me to Matthew Mangino joining

439
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: us high profile lawyer that did the condo community, the

440
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: apartment community not know that. I think several of these

441
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: were illegal immigrants. Undocumented immigrants. We're living in an empty

442
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: apartment directly across with Jennifer Cassey. Well, that's that's really

443
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: troubling that you would have these possibly undocumented workers living

444
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: in an apartment in a complex where you know other

445
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: people are paying rent and are expecting a certain level

446
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: of safety and security, and you know, we don't know

447
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: how many people are living in there. We don't know

448
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: the identities of these people. This is all, you know,

449
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: dangerous to bring people who you do, who you don't know,

450
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: who you can't identify, to live or sleep in an

451
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: unused apartment in the complex. I certainly don't think that

452
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: the residents there would would want that or appreciate that.

453
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: In fact, you know, Jennifer had moved into this complex

454
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: because she thought it was safe because it was a

455
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: gated community, and now all of a sudden, you know,

456
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: possibly undocumented workers or living in an apartment across the hall,

457
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: and there's a problem with that. I don't care where

458
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,239
Speaker 1: they're from, but I care what their history is. And

459
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: Bill Gilmore, Jennifer's uncle. When you have people basically squatting

460
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: in an apartment and they're undocumented, I don't know if

461
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: they've got a rape conviction back home from wherever they came.

462
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if they've got a mansel or convict

463
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: conviction or sawdomy conviction. I don't know, and I sure

464
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: as heck don't want them living across from one of

465
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: my children. There's no way to trace them. We don't

466
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: have their social security or they're agency, never a way

467
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: to find out who they are to question them about

468
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: Jennifer's disappearance. And isn't it true, Bill Gilmore, that Jennifer

469
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: had actually told her family she was uneasy, unhappy, nervous,

470
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: felt intimidated that all these guys were living right across

471
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: from her. Well, in terms of whether they were immediately

472
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: across or not, that I don't know, but I do

473
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: know that the workers that were coming into do a

474
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: variety of maintenance work and so forth. There was that leering,

475
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: and she was very concerned about the feeling that they

476
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: were constantly watching her. And she had called out, you know,

477
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: to my brother in law, I drew a few times

478
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: on that he obviously called management. So everybody was aware

479
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: that this was going on, and we then learned that

480
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: there were other females that lived in the complex that

481
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: that claimed the same thing. They felt the same way

482
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 1: that they were being blocked at and stared at and

483
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: just made to feel uncomfortable. You know how many times

484
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: just got Morgan Death investigator, have you handled a case?

485
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: Many that we have covered, And I'm thinking back many

486
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: that I investigated and prosecuted where the murder victims said,

487
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: for instance, if anything happens to me, he did it.

488
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: It's almost as if they have some kind of premonition.

489
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: Here we have Jennifer Kessey, this gorgeous young girl just

490
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: starting out in her life, telling her family and friends

491
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: that the workers there were making her feel very nervous

492
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: and uneasy. They were actually squatting, according to reports in

493
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: the apartment complex. Yeah, and you know, you think about

494
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: you think about this as well. Many times workers like

495
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: this will be very transient. So if you've got a

496
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: transient population where they're going on to the next job site,

497
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: for instance, you know that work is done. And as

498
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: Bill had mentioned just a moment ago, there were a

499
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: variety of things that may have been being done around

500
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: that area relative to two types of construction. So you've

501
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: got different trades. You know, maybe you've got people that

502
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: are doing ceramic, maybe you've got people that are doing hanging,

503
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, sheet rock or whatever, and those groups

504
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: kind of come and go I think my big question

505
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: with this, and since these workers have constantly come up,

506
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: We've been covering this for a long time now, did

507
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: they go to the people that are actually doing the contracting,

508
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: you know those individuals, and really put their feet to

509
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: the fire about who they were bringing in to do

510
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: these works, this work, who were their points of contact

511
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: along the way. They're not going to cooperate, Bill Gilmore,

512
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: not that just Scott Morgan is wrong. He's right, but

513
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: there is no way that apartment complex or condo complex,

514
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: whatever you're gonna call it, is ever going to admit yeah,

515
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: we knew undocumented workers, workers were squatting there, You're never

516
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: going to say that. And that was one of the

517
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: biggest frustrations is that the things were so obvious. I mean, like,

518
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: as the other Gentlemens just said, there's panel vans all

519
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: over the place, and so you know, your mind immediately

520
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: moves to the fact that I think if a panel

521
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: van happened to be parked right next to her car

522
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: and she's coming out of her complex and get ready

523
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: with her back turned opened up her own car, if

524
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: the panel door was opened, and again, this is going

525
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: on every day, so you're not necessarily paying attention to

526
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: it because you're you're expecting to see workers there, but

527
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: they could have easily been pulled into the van. And

528
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: that was what concerned us from the very beginning, is

529
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: why weren't those people and the contractors being looked at

530
00:32:53,680 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: crime stories With Nancy Grace. Jennifer's father, Drew tells me

531
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: that Jennifer said, there are a lot of workers here,

532
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: and whenever I walk to my car, they stop what

533
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: they're doing and they just look and stare at me.

534
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: Walk into my car right there. To Karen's stark, she's

535
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: basically telling us from beyond the grave what happened to her.

536
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: That's right, Nancy, She's definitely afraid of these men. And

537
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to add that I'm pretty sure somebody else

538
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: also complained. Did that? Then? Yes, six other women and

539
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: they had keys. And I think that one of them

540
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: even had been working in Jennifer's apartment or its familiar

541
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: with it. What about that, Bill Gilmore, Is that true

542
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,479
Speaker 1: one of them was working in her apartment? Well, they

543
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: had I mean, obviously the folks that are associated with

544
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: the ownership, the people are doing maintenance had keys to

545
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: get in and out of the unit. So they could

546
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: be doing the maintenance work, you know the punch list

547
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: items that have been reported to them. Now, typically they

548
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: would give you advanced notice, but I think there was

549
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: an opportunity or two where they came when she was

550
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: still there unexpected, or stay when when she was in

551
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: the condo. She was certainly made to feel uncomfortable as well. Now,

552
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: according to another woman that lived there named Colleen, and

553
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: we're not revealing her last name, she said, and I quote,

554
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: when I would come home from work, there would be

555
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: a large group of men outside drinking, and whenever I

556
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: would have to walk past them, there would be comments

557
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: or uncomfortable steers. It wasn't a great feeling. I didn't

558
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: like it. So we know that other women were going

559
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: through the same thing. Another phenomena. Bill Gilmour is joining me.

560
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: This is Jennifer's uncle who has just completed a book

561
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: about to come out aftermath of Jennifer, Cassie's abduction and

562
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: uncle's inspiring journey and other stories of hope. Bill, I

563
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: have found, and I'm not happy to report this, that

564
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: very often criminals will act when they're in a group

565
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: and do things they would never do on their own.

566
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: You get a group of these undocumented construction workers. They're squatting,

567
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: they're they're drinking, they're watching her back and forth, leering

568
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: insane comments. Two of them may attack Jennifer together, when

569
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 1: if they had been on their own, that would never

570
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: have happened. And I can imagine that that would be true. Again,

571
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: it's there's so much of this story that it's disturbing,

572
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: and here we are, almost seventeen years later, still talking

573
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: about it without really much in the way of answers,

574
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: And a lot of this should have been addressed in

575
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: those early days and weeks. Tell me what led you

576
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: to write your book bill Well number one. Immediately following that,

577
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: I took stock in my own life and I began

578
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: to realize that my life was an absolute mess. And

579
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: it's funny how they say that pain is God's megaphone.

580
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: It's true, and in this particular case, Jennifer's abduction just

581
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: brought me to my knees to begin to really reflect

582
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: on the things that were most important in my life.

583
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: And as I shared in the in the Fox News Racle,

584
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: literally I prayed for God to take my life because

585
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: I said I had made a mess of it. But

586
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: Jennifer deserved her life. She deserved to have the life

587
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: that she had planned, and as you had said earlier,

588
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: she had everything moving in the right direction. And so

589
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: soon after that, you know, I just began a journey

590
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 1: of life transformation. And then during COVID, of course, as

591
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: we were all sheltering in place and shut down and

592
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 1: physically isolated and socially distancing from people, I realized that

593
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: we are living in a time of escalation in terms

594
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: of help of this hopelessness, fear, anxiety, and I wanted

595
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: to be a person to inspire hope. And that's what

596
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: really propelled me to write this book, is to begin

597
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: to share that despite the circumstances that we can find

598
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: ourselves in life, we can find our way through to

599
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: piece joy, hope, and I want to share that, and

600
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm also sharing some stories of others that inspired me

601
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: along the LASS sixteen plus years as well. But as

602
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: I said to Joyce and Drew when I was visiting

603
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: with them back on July fourth week, that I firmly

604
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: believe that if this book can be read by the

605
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: people the person or people that were directly involved in

606
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: Jennifer's case, that they would hopefully learn that despite whatever

607
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: it is that they've done, that does not mean that's

608
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: the last chapter of their life. They can be redeemed

609
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: and that they can certainly find a new beginning, but

610
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: they have to come clean and they have to face

611
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: whatever the consequences are. But I will also say to

612
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: your listeners that there are so many there's thousands of

613
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: these stories, and so the impact is not just for

614
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: the people it's personal to me with Jennifer, but also

615
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: I would like to hope that somebody anywhere that's involved

616
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: in some type of Humi's crime would read this and

617
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: realize that no matter what you've done in life, it

618
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: can be restored, it can be rescued. Wow. Bill Gilmore

619
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: joining us. This is Jennifer's uncle, author of Aftermath of

620
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: Jennifer Kessy's Abduction. I pray that you are right, Bill Gilmore.

621
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: The tip line is eight six six eight to three

622
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: eight eleven fifty three eight six six eight three eight

623
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: eleven fifty three, or I advise the Kessie family tip

624
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: line nine four one two zero one four zero zero

625
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 1: nine repeat nine four one to zero one four zero

626
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: zero nine. There is a fifteen thousand dollars three boys

627
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime Story, signing off good bye friend,