1
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,879
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Let's That's Podcasting. My

2
00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,600
Speaker 1: yesterday is being running over Haul anch Haul. Good dab

3
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 1: you on the podcast, Bob. It's great to be on

4
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,159
Speaker 1: the podcast. I've been looking forward to this. Okay, you

5
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 1: have a new album Making Memories just came out. What

6
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,040
Speaker 1: motivates you to make an album at this lead date?

7
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,120
Speaker 1: Pretty much the same when I was a kid, when

8
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,840
Speaker 1: I had to do three of them. Because I love writing.

9
00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,400
Speaker 1: I love what I'm doing. I never stopped. I don't

10
00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,600
Speaker 1: have a rear view mirror when I keep writing as

11
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 1: I've been doing, I want to get it out there.

12
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 1: Certainly times are not what they used to be, but

13
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, with COVID, i'm locked up. The reality sets

14
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:54,960
Speaker 1: in that what are you gonna do with yourself? So

15
00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,040
Speaker 1: now you're gifted with writing, and you say, I'm gonna

16
00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 1: sit down and write. It's what I love to do.

17
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 1: So you you're right. And then when you're done with

18
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,720
Speaker 1: about thirty songs, you say, well, I like what I'm hearing,

19
00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,480
Speaker 1: Let's make some choices and let's just get it out there.

20
00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 1: So it's an ongoing process, Bob. For me, I never

21
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 1: stopped writing, and as age means nothing to me. You know,

22
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,360
Speaker 1: they throw dirt on you if you stand still. I'm

23
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,839
Speaker 1: just doing what I do. I'll have a tour going out.

24
00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,280
Speaker 1: But the album was very important this year, and we're

25
00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,119
Speaker 1: producing a documentary. We're starting on that in a couple

26
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,480
Speaker 1: of months. Okay, need Let's just say that the business

27
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,280
Speaker 1: is completely different from when you started in its sixty

28
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,480
Speaker 1: plus years ago, and in addition, in the last twenty years,

29
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:41,520
Speaker 1: it's changed for everybody. So first you you write the songs.

30
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,440
Speaker 1: Who paid to make the record? Well, I paid for

31
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,320
Speaker 1: most of it because I really didn't have an outlet yet.

32
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,840
Speaker 1: Then I have a deal with primary Wave, primary Wave

33
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 1: and my partners in publishing, copyrights, etcetera. And I said,

34
00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: let me get him the first crack. So I called

35
00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,400
Speaker 1: Larry Mistell. Love Larry. He's doing a great job over

36
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,960
Speaker 1: there with his team, and I said, here's what I got.

37
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,720
Speaker 1: You know, I had my buddy Hervey's off. We talked

38
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 1: about it, and we talked about where we'd want to

39
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 1: go with it, and I said, let's go to Larry.

40
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,480
Speaker 1: You know he's in that business. We went, They loved

41
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 1: what they heard, gave me some money back, not all

42
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,639
Speaker 1: of it such as the record business, and that was that.

43
00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 1: How much money did it cost to make the record?

44
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 1: Cost me about a hundred dollars Okay, so this is

45
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,560
Speaker 1: an old school budget. This is not done on the cheap.

46
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,040
Speaker 1: So you write the songs, how do you then go

47
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 1: about actually making the record, especially during COVID, Well, the

48
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,480
Speaker 1: process with the new technology is, you know, kind of

49
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,760
Speaker 1: the same, and that the technology dictates. You know, I'll

50
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 1: do most of it in my studio here at the house.

51
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 1: I'll ship some of the files over to guitar players

52
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,040
Speaker 1: and drummers. The big question was what do we do

53
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,919
Speaker 1: when we want strings and orchestra, et cetera. We find

54
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,880
Speaker 1: out that in Budapest, Hungry, they have a symphonic orchestra

55
00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,040
Speaker 1: that meets five times a week and if you want

56
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,200
Speaker 1: music done, you just plug it in and they'll give

57
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,400
Speaker 1: you what you want from Budapest. So we shipped all

58
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,120
Speaker 1: the arrangements over. We had great talk with the conductor.

59
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,480
Speaker 1: They did everything from Hungary. Wow, that's really amazing. Were

60
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 1: you supervising everything or did you have a producer? No, listen,

61
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,600
Speaker 1: I have a team. I have a team of people.

62
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,680
Speaker 1: I got good arrangers, good engineers. We were. It's a

63
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,480
Speaker 1: team effort, you know, success as many fathers, Bob as

64
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,480
Speaker 1: you know. And we sat down and looked at everything

65
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,600
Speaker 1: and uh I said, okay, take it, you guys, give

66
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 1: m a call, see what you want, what we want where?

67
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: And the team just dictated everything. I produced it all

68
00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,680
Speaker 1: myself with them, with them. Okay. Now, the old days,

69
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,360
Speaker 1: even in the somewhat recent days, to cut basics, everybody

70
00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 1: would get together in a big studio. On this album,

71
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,880
Speaker 1: did everybody ever just get together like that? No, we

72
00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,400
Speaker 1: didn't go near a big studio. We we couldn't with

73
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 1: COVID even when it was proposed. We didn't want to

74
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 1: take the chance. I thought that, well, why we don't

75
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: have to as long as we can go to Budapest.

76
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,840
Speaker 1: And if I need a guitar player over here, great

77
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,760
Speaker 1: keyboards are all done here, great h J R R drummer.

78
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 1: He's at home and like myself, many people you know,

79
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 1: ship everything over to him and he does it. So

80
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:33,039
Speaker 1: we don't all meet unless we have to. Okay, And

81
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:34,680
Speaker 1: you have a studio in the house so you can

82
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,279
Speaker 1: cut your parts. I have a studio in the house.

83
00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,359
Speaker 1: We have the technology here to put down a core,

84
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,279
Speaker 1: put down a base of everything. UM pretty simple. I

85
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,000
Speaker 1: mean the last time I was in a studio with

86
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 1: a full orchestra was with UM when I was doing

87
00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,280
Speaker 1: rock Swings. You know, I wanted to be very authentic.

88
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 1: It was career threatening, so I wanted to get the

89
00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,200
Speaker 1: best of everything. We went to Capital, We used all

90
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 1: the best mikes we could get to get the sound,

91
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,159
Speaker 1: best orchestra, and put all our money in being in

92
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 1: a studio. But that's the last time I've been in

93
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:12,919
Speaker 1: a studio. Okay, are you yourself technologically savvy or you

94
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,120
Speaker 1: were of a you know, you know there are people

95
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,840
Speaker 1: who are whizzes on their iPhone whizzes in the studio,

96
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,800
Speaker 1: and other people are more conceptual. How about yourself. I'm

97
00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:26,080
Speaker 1: not a multiple whiz expert. I'm a whiz and maybe

98
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,840
Speaker 1: one or two things. I have an understanding of what

99
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,919
Speaker 1: it is. I don't really want to do it, Bob.

100
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:32,840
Speaker 1: I want to sit home. You know, I'm out a

101
00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,240
Speaker 1: keyboard all day and you know I'm you know, I

102
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: do everything I used to on a typewriter because I

103
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 1: was going to be a journalist. But more than that,

104
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in doing you know, I pay people

105
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:43,800
Speaker 1: that know what they're doing. They're on a day to

106
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,440
Speaker 1: day and I have really no interest to do that whatsoever.

107
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 1: I'm not even a prisoner in my phone. You know,

108
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 1: people text me, you may hear from me three or

109
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 1: four days later. I don't jump to it because if

110
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,120
Speaker 1: it's an emergency, they find you. And other than that, no,

111
00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to be a prisoner to that stuff.

112
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,679
Speaker 1: So now, now that the album is done and out,

113
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,599
Speaker 1: what are your expectations? None? Uh, the way the business

114
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,919
Speaker 1: is today, you know, Look, I plan on on on

115
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,159
Speaker 1: house money at this age and everything I've been through

116
00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,599
Speaker 1: in this business. I don't sit there and chew my

117
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,000
Speaker 1: nails off. I'm not chewing my nails. But in my

118
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,039
Speaker 1: number one, number three, I have enough friends and young

119
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,360
Speaker 1: artists that I talked to that they can't sleep at night.

120
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,040
Speaker 1: Not interested what I'm interested in. It's all about the music.

121
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,120
Speaker 1: You put it out there, whatever happens. You know, I've

122
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 1: got my core following. However they respond. It sets you

123
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,279
Speaker 1: up for the tour and lets you know you're still running.

124
00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,599
Speaker 1: You've got a historical moment, whether it's with Olivia Newton

125
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,400
Speaker 1: John because of this TikTok bou blay and uh, Bocelli.

126
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,560
Speaker 1: That's enough for me. Now, whatever happens to what happens.

127
00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: But outside of this box of show business, I don't

128
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,320
Speaker 1: live with expectations. I think it's a dangerous mindset to

129
00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,800
Speaker 1: be in. Have you always in that way, or you've

130
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,479
Speaker 1: learned that over time? I've learned most of it over time.

131
00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,359
Speaker 1: In the beginning, when I left home with a hundred

132
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: bucks and you know, at fifteen and a few songs

133
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,360
Speaker 1: in my pocket, you know, I had the dream, I

134
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,280
Speaker 1: had the expectations. I bought into all of that stuff, live, breathe,

135
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 1: rock and roll. And then I realized that everybody that

136
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 1: I was dealing with, everyone around me, they weren't sophisticated.

137
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,440
Speaker 1: You know, none of us, most people in our industry,

138
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,360
Speaker 1: they're not sophisticated. They get lucky with something and then

139
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 1: they start crawling along this journey trying to deal with

140
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 1: the success and hoping that ultimately down the road to

141
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 1: get some wisdom has to deal with it. But that

142
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 1: ended for me maybe twenty years in or I just said,

143
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,520
Speaker 1: no more expectations. I'm done with that, okay. Staying on

144
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 1: the album just for a few more minutes. The opening

145
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 1: track Fool for Love, Yes, if it didn't have your

146
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,920
Speaker 1: name on it, it would fit right in on Serious's

147
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 1: yacht rock channel. It sounds very rock and it's very good.

148
00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 1: Can you tell me the story on that record? On

149
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 1: that track, Yeah, I purposely on a couple of the tracks,

150
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 1: just you know, I wanted to sound different. Not that

151
00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 1: it was tough, but I have a songwriter's voice and

152
00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,040
Speaker 1: then I've got, you know, in aclectic kind of way

153
00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,840
Speaker 1: I sing different things. I wanted to make it very

154
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,920
Speaker 1: rock that Ariana. There's a few on there that I had,

155
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,440
Speaker 1: how already done all of that pop kind of sounding

156
00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 1: stuff and the way that I wrote it, in the

157
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,040
Speaker 1: way that I heard it, you know, I wanted to

158
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,680
Speaker 1: surround it with that kind of rock attitude, which you

159
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,840
Speaker 1: know I did, you know, years ago, and I've been

160
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,559
Speaker 1: a fan of it, and I purposely just said I'm

161
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,200
Speaker 1: not going to do the typical kind of anchor batted

162
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 1: approach to those and it all came easy. So we

163
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 1: laid it down, felt good and even the sound, you know,

164
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,839
Speaker 1: the way that I was singing it, I felt that

165
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,520
Speaker 1: that really fit was indigenous to the song. Okay, there's

166
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 1: also a track Power to the People, which seems somewhat political,

167
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,560
Speaker 1: although it doesn't really take a side where you take

168
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,920
Speaker 1: a steam politically or is that too dangerous? Why did

169
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:04,640
Speaker 1: you cut that track? Good question? I um, I've always

170
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,120
Speaker 1: shunned from getting myself up there politically because you're gonna

171
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:13,200
Speaker 1: lose half or more. Um, I'm just and further one

172
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 1: I would ever step down. So the politics and what

173
00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,640
Speaker 1: I've seen in politics very dangerous game. But I wanted

174
00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,920
Speaker 1: to write about it. There's three tracks on there where

175
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,000
Speaker 1: I was very you know, moved and emotional about the

176
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,600
Speaker 1: fact that where we are right now in the world,

177
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,560
Speaker 1: where we are in this country, I wanted to make

178
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 1: my statement, thus, crazy world, if everyone could sing one

179
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,839
Speaker 1: song and power to the people. Now, if you go

180
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:46,280
Speaker 1: back maybe two years and one of your columns, you've

181
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,640
Speaker 1: obviously done so much great stuff that we all love.

182
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 1: For the most part, you had a you had a

183
00:09:55,520 --> 00:10:00,760
Speaker 1: a column about, uh, the state of the country. There

184
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,280
Speaker 1: are words that you used, et cetera. Well, if you

185
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 1: listen to that again, there's about four instances in there

186
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:14,960
Speaker 1: where I lifted, I was moved, where I used and

187
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,520
Speaker 1: if you listen to it, you're gonna you'll go and

188
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:23,920
Speaker 1: find the piece you said people know the power no no, uh,

189
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 1: voice of voices, voices just a voice unless it's heard.

190
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,079
Speaker 1: There's about four times and then you that you moved

191
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: me and I used it in the song. Now don't

192
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,320
Speaker 1: get irving to come after me for royalties. You know,

193
00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,319
Speaker 1: your open game for all of us. But I used

194
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,040
Speaker 1: I used a lot of your stuff. That's great, it's

195
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,679
Speaker 1: great to be the inspiration. Let's talk about the writing process.

196
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,440
Speaker 1: You say you're a writer. How do you do it?

197
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,760
Speaker 1: Do you sit down at the piano at ten am?

198
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 1: Or you wait to get inspired? How does it come together? Well,

199
00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,680
Speaker 1: all of us are right, um, were the same, but

200
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,880
Speaker 1: we're different. I think for me, the way I wrote

201
00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,320
Speaker 1: in the fifties were it all started. I wrote all

202
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,440
Speaker 1: the time, had a hundred bucks a month, and I

203
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 1: sat in a room that the record company locked me

204
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,280
Speaker 1: away and I had to give him, you know, three

205
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,680
Speaker 1: albums a year or more. And that process was just

206
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,200
Speaker 1: right right right live rock and roll through the years.

207
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: What's happened is depending on how I'm motivated to what. Uh.

208
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,800
Speaker 1: You take something like The Longest Day, which I wrote

209
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,000
Speaker 1: for the film The Longest Day, You know that was

210
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,559
Speaker 1: a lot way out of my Bailey Wick in terms

211
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,360
Speaker 1: of the film historical day in our country. You know,

212
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 1: I'm with Darryl Zank and I'm at lunch with this guy,

213
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,600
Speaker 1: and I'm saying, God, you know, thank you for having

214
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,160
Speaker 1: me this film. I'm twenty, etcetera. I'm saying, who who,

215
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 1: who does? Who's doing the music? He says, no music,

216
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,080
Speaker 1: no love story. It's a documentary type film. Okay, I

217
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,560
Speaker 1: go home. I got the melody in my head. I

218
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,800
Speaker 1: got it half finished on the way home on the airplane.

219
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,800
Speaker 1: I went in the studio after maybe about two weeks

220
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 1: refining it and doing what I want to make a demo.

221
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,160
Speaker 1: I send it to him, gets back to me in

222
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,760
Speaker 1: two weeks, as there will be music. Now I'm off

223
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm off point, but it just shows you when that's

224
00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,959
Speaker 1: totally on point, you're inspired and you're literally writing it

225
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 1: right away while you're inspired. Right So the point is

226
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:22,440
Speaker 1: when I get inspired like that, you sit down. I

227
00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 1: like to do it at night because there's no distractions.

228
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,640
Speaker 1: I like to sit down when I really feel I'm

229
00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,680
Speaker 1: in a good kind of frame of mind. I don't

230
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,479
Speaker 1: like to force anything because as you evolve as a craftsman,

231
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,240
Speaker 1: which many of us are, uh, you know, good becomes

232
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 1: the enemy of great, especially today where everybody does it.

233
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,240
Speaker 1: Everybody writes, everybody sings, everybody everybody. But to get it

234
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,640
Speaker 1: to where you want it to be, I need to

235
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 1: be totally alone. I need to be totally in a

236
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 1: great frame of mind without any baggage. And you're right

237
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 1: away and you just hope, you hope you get it

238
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,560
Speaker 1: to the place where you want it, where you like it.

239
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 1: You know, if it's something like She's a Lady. You know,

240
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,000
Speaker 1: I knew I had to write for Jones because we

241
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,319
Speaker 1: were buddies. I flew to England did his TV show

242
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,760
Speaker 1: and he said, to write me, you write me a

243
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,120
Speaker 1: song because I've never been number one in the United States,

244
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,200
Speaker 1: which he wasn't. And uh, I said, yeah, sure. So

245
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,080
Speaker 1: I jumped on t w A flying home and you

246
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 1: know we're on planes. Is not paper around when it

247
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 1: moves you, you know you need paper, You need something

248
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,560
Speaker 1: on the back of a menu. I wrote, She's a Lady.

249
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,840
Speaker 1: Put the words down first, which is not part of

250
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,080
Speaker 1: the regular process. You usually like to get the structure

251
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,559
Speaker 1: and the note, and the word is as good as

252
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,559
Speaker 1: the note under it. So with with She's a Lady

253
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,040
Speaker 1: and knocked that off in just maybe a couple of

254
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 1: days because I was inspired by this guy. You know,

255
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,880
Speaker 1: it's all about sexuality. I really put myself in his place.

256
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,720
Speaker 1: It was no different than Buddy Holly. He was my friend,

257
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 1: we were we were bus mates. We're going to start

258
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,439
Speaker 1: a music company together. And he said, Paul, you know

259
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,079
Speaker 1: I'm getting fleeced by my man. You're I want to

260
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,320
Speaker 1: change my style. He said, you know, write me something.

261
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,199
Speaker 1: I want strings. I want to do what you're doing.

262
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,439
Speaker 1: And I wrote, it doesn't matter anymore on a ukulele,

263
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,720
Speaker 1: And the process was always the same inspiration. Now, when

264
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,080
Speaker 1: you're writing for yourself like this album, you know, love

265
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 1: is the strongest emotion and it's what I've always dealt in.

266
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 1: That's a different thing because I'm kind of I know

267
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 1: the parameters. I know pretty much what I want to do,

268
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,880
Speaker 1: how I should be doing it, and I just sit

269
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,840
Speaker 1: and write and write. I continue to write even when

270
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,480
Speaker 1: I get down to doing the vocal, because once that

271
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 1: comes together, if there's a line or a rhyme or

272
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 1: an attitude line, I'll rewrite it and I'll keep rewriting

273
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,480
Speaker 1: until I get what I want. So it's just eclectic

274
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 1: it's all over. As to the approach, now, you say

275
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,760
Speaker 1: you're writing all the time, Yeah, let's just talk in

276
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 1: the last seven days. If you're written in the last

277
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,840
Speaker 1: seven days, I started, uh one song in the last

278
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 1: seven days. And then I've been working with a young

279
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,840
Speaker 1: rapper type pop singer who's sixteen working with him. So

280
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,680
Speaker 1: I put a lot of energy into that. And uh.

281
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 1: Other than that, I'm on the phone from six in

282
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 1: the morning with radio all over the country, you know,

283
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,080
Speaker 1: promoting the record company want me to talk to these guys,

284
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,440
Speaker 1: which is great, and that eats up my time. So

285
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,440
Speaker 1: I'm dedicated to that, and I'm dedicated to sitting here

286
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 1: through boxes and boxes of photos and film they'll go

287
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,480
Speaker 1: back sixty years, trying to get ready for what's going

288
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 1: to go into this documentary. Okay, let's talk a little

289
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 1: deeper on the writing process recovered when you're rawly inspired

290
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 1: with Buddy Holly and Tom Jones, etcetera. But are there

291
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 1: other days where you'll literally just say I want to write.

292
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm sitting down in front of the piano. I got nothing.

293
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Uh more So let's say on

294
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 1: the second half of my writing life, Um, where I'm

295
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: much more of a critic to myself. And there's other

296
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,560
Speaker 1: things around ound you in your life, you know, which

297
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 1: will go nameless for the moment. Yes, you're absolutely effect

298
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,800
Speaker 1: and I don't force it. I just don't force right.

299
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 1: There's times I've sat there for an hour and I said,

300
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,120
Speaker 1: it's just not happening. It's just not happening, yes the answers, Yes, well,

301
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,200
Speaker 1: tell me about what it is happening. Well, when it

302
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 1: is happening, there's a certain feeling that you get. You're

303
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,280
Speaker 1: just you know, you're walking around the house, you're driving,

304
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,640
Speaker 1: you're out, you're doing you can get this sense because

305
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 1: you're coming up with lines and you're writing them down

306
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 1: and you're recording them into your phone. You've got this

307
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,640
Speaker 1: vibe happening where it's that that once in a what

308
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,240
Speaker 1: where you go, wow, I gotta get the pianos. It's happening,

309
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 1: and you sit down and it flows and flows and

310
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,640
Speaker 1: you just keep writing, keep writing, keep melody, lines going,

311
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 1: getting your structure, and it's just one of those moments

312
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 1: that you know you're given a gift. I feel, and

313
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 1: I think that for for a lot of guys. You know,

314
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 1: Bert backrock, He said, dear buddy of mine. I octobert.

315
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 1: You know many times a week he's still writing. You know,

316
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 1: we talk about when he's moved as I am, and

317
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,439
Speaker 1: when he's not well right now last week he wasn't.

318
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,359
Speaker 1: So we we understand the process of when we get

319
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,440
Speaker 1: excited about something that we internally here or a lyric

320
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: that's turning us on, that it's time to sit down

321
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,879
Speaker 1: and nail it. But don't force it. It just can't

322
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: force it. You know, we're not building a house that

323
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,920
Speaker 1: has to be done by October. Let's say you're really hot.

324
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 1: You say, man, I'm in the mood. Yeah. Do you

325
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 1: find that you almost have to disconnect because otherwise you're

326
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,639
Speaker 1: self conscious and you go off the rails? Say that again, Well,

327
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying. I'm talking about writing. Sometimes

328
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 1: I'll write something and I go I'll realize, I go, whoa,

329
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 1: this is really good. And if I realize it's really good,

330
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 1: it's hard to stay that good. Whereas other times, if

331
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 1: I just stay in the zone, don't worry about reaction

332
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,919
Speaker 1: and just let it flow, it's easier to stay on

333
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:03,840
Speaker 1: point with the great stuff. Wow, how do I answer that?

334
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: That's um? No, If if I'm really on it and

335
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,880
Speaker 1: and you know, throwing the dice with it because it's

336
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 1: so good and reaching out and trying to do it.

337
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,640
Speaker 1: I just stay there. I get disciplined when I get

338
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,439
Speaker 1: the sense that I've kind of done well, you know,

339
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,439
Speaker 1: the ready process. When I went to school, I was

340
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 1: typing seventy words a minute. I was going to be

341
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 1: a journalist, as a cup cup reporter. You know, you're

342
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,679
Speaker 1: sitting there for a minute. You don't know how to

343
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,600
Speaker 1: start the piece. You don't know what that first line is,

344
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, and you get hung up. It's a very

345
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,440
Speaker 1: lonely existence when you're all by yourself there and you're

346
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 1: looking at it and waiting for it. But when it's

347
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 1: flowing you you just jump right on. You keep going

348
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,679
Speaker 1: with it. I'm not afraid of it in either area,

349
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 1: not at all. Okay, So, how do you, with so

350
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 1: much experience and so much success, separate good from great? Yeah? Tough,

351
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: it's tough. You you're really hard yourself. Um for the

352
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,880
Speaker 1: most part, when you're really done with it, Uh, you

353
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 1: can separate it. Uh. Functional has some appeal? Is it great?

354
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 1: You know none of us have that magic wand and

355
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: the music business. We don't know. Nobody sits there, says

356
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 1: this is number one, this is this, this is this.

357
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 1: But you know, within the scope of what you're capable of,

358
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,199
Speaker 1: that you've written something that's just not okay, you know,

359
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,120
Speaker 1: because I I hate just being good, because I think

360
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 1: that you've got to really go beyond that, way beyond this.

361
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 1: Too much of that around today in music that's just

362
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 1: too much. Let alone the fact you don't know where

363
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,440
Speaker 1: you're gonna go with it. It's it's just a very

364
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 1: tough landscape to deal on. Okay, let's talk a little deeper.

365
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 1: You start on the piano, Yeah, to what degree? Will

366
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 1: that be locked? And we'll be locked before you do

367
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 1: the lyrics or will the will the music sometimes change

368
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: as you're writing the lyrics or when the lyrics even finished.

369
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,159
Speaker 1: All of that. I think first, once I get the

370
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: title or the concept of the song, which will set

371
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: in motion the melody base. Uh, it all morphs out

372
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,639
Speaker 1: of that. You know. If I'm if I'm adding on

373
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: a structure five more words, I've got to change the

374
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: melody under it. So it's all back and forth between

375
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,479
Speaker 1: the two. Unless I really have a melody that I know,

376
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,920
Speaker 1: it's a lock it's like my way. That was a lock.

377
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: There was no way I could change that melody, not

378
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 1: not a bit, but the way the lyric came out

379
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 1: of me at you know, one in the morning. You know,

380
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: I sat with that melody for a long time. And

381
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: it was only because I'm in Florida, I'm at the

382
00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 1: fountain Blue. Frank Sinatra was my guy, my enter. I

383
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 1: hung with him, Sammy, don't forget Dean Martin, great singer,

384
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: great guy. And these were my guys. And all through

385
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 1: the years I hung with them. From Vegas Sinatra and say,

386
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 1: when you're gonna write me a song, When you're gonna

387
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,959
Speaker 1: write me a song? Kid, well as intimidated. I mean,

388
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: I couldn't give a popularve or lonely boy would have

389
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: thrown a chair at me. It was in Florida when

390
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 1: he said I'm retiring from Chopez, I'm quitting. I'm gonna

391
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: do one more album, one more album, and I'm out

392
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: of here. I'm gonna do it with Don Costa. Well,

393
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: Don Costa was my producer. I introduced him to Frank

394
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: in the sixties and they did a great album called

395
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: Sinatra and Strings. And after dinner, I sat there and

396
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: I just said, you're you're really quitting. I'm done, he said,

397
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: you know, the FBI is all over me, the rat

398
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: packs over, but I gotta do one more album for

399
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: the company. I go back to New York and I'm

400
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 1: sitting there at my typewriter. It's one of the morning,

401
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 1: thunderstorm outside, and I'm going quitting Schobez. I got to

402
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: write something, and I got right off the head I

403
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,479
Speaker 1: got and now the end is near metaphorically the final curtain.

404
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: And I started writing it as if he were sitting

405
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 1: in the chair, because there's stuff in there. I'd never

406
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: normally right ate it up and spit it out, all

407
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 1: part of what he was about. So by five in

408
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 1: the morning, I had finished this thing, and it just

409
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: came and came out and came out a little refinement.

410
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: But that was the one moment that I could say,

411
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: I don't know where the hell it came from. I

412
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: don't know how every word, every verse locked in like that.

413
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: I did a demo the next day. I flew out

414
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: to Vegas. I called him. I said, Sir, I got

415
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: the song. Blah blah blah blah. He said, come on out.

416
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: I took it to him. His dressing room. He was

417
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: finishing up at Caesar's Palace, you know, and he wasn't

418
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: a guy and I love and he did. You know,

419
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: he's always played cool. I love it, kid, I'm gonna

420
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: do it so great. Two months later, I get a call.

421
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: I'm in my apartment in New York. He's in a

422
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: studio with on at I think Sunset Sound, one of

423
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: those places, and the operator said Mr Sinatra calling. Okay,

424
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: I pick up the phone. He says, kid, listen to this,

425
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: and he takes the phone. He puts it next to

426
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: one of those big speakers, and I heard my way

427
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: for the first time, and I started crying. I mean,

428
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: I just said, ship, this is unreal. I finally got

429
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: Sinatra to do one of my songs, and then a

430
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: couple of years later he decided to come back. And

431
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: he calls up and says, ken, I'm coming back. Write

432
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 1: me in other songs. I gave him. Let me try again,

433
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: and he introduced it. Jerry Wittrop called. He said, because

434
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: he was my other buddy. He says he's gonna do

435
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 1: it and introduce it at Madison Square Garden. PAULI. I said,

436
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: oh God, you're killing me. Bring it on and that

437
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: was a very those moments writing for him. I've never

438
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: had that kind of experience. Did you ever write something

439
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: for somebody and they said no, Yeah, yeah I have.

440
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: I've had a couple of yeah, yes, and that's okay.

441
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: You know, I've had, uh, I know, something with a

442
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: fifth dimension. Because I liked the group. I finally got

443
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: one on there, but they turned me down twice. Um.

444
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: I think I said something to Presley, but he finally

445
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: did my way. Um, Michael bou Ble. I gave Michael

446
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: a couple of new songs and it wasn't working. And

447
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: that's okay, you know that. Look, that's so okay. As

448
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: a writer. When you're writing like that, you're just right

449
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: and whatever. It is a great song. Ultimately, something's gonna happen.

450
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: Now I'm looking at this whole TikTok thing. I didn't

451
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: know what it was. I had no idea until these

452
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: kids showed up at my door. I have this sixteen

453
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: year old son and these girls start singing this put

454
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: your head on my shoulder and I don't know why,

455
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: and they said, TikTok, TikTok. I said, what is TikTok? Well,

456
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: of course, did my homework gut involved. I'm listening, I'm watching,

457
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: I'm saying, I don't believe this. I wrote her at

458
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: seventeen and who they all knew that with TikTok, and

459
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: none of us knew where this business was going. Who

460
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: would have envisioned this? You know, all we ever saw

461
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: was the wrapback then when I you know, I talked

462
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: to Normy Weiss and said, Bernstein, who are my agents?

463
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: When I was living in Europe and I come home

464
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: and say, there's these Beetles, these Beatles, and they go,

465
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: what do you mean Beatles? What beetles? I said, you

466
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: got They're amazing and I but I was knocking these

467
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: guys to go bring him to the States, and I

468
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: think VJ Records trying to put something else that bombed.

469
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: And finally norm me, he goes over because I told

470
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: him to, and they bring him back in sixty four.

471
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: And the point is until the Beatles came and opened

472
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: everything up. You know, Madison Avenue didn't like us kids,

473
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: the parents didn't like us. Kids were slepping around the

474
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 1: country on a bus making two a week, which we

475
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: loved until the Beatles out here. Then it started opening up.

476
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: Ben Hendrix and you know, the rest of the story.

477
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: But you know we were back then. We're just these

478
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: little pioneers. Okay, let's talk about the Beatles. When did

479
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: you When did you first experience the Beatles? Well, I

480
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: had off point a little. I I toured in Europe

481
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: from age seventeen on. I'm going everywhere and I'm loving it.

482
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a kid out of Canada, New York

483
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I'm introduced to the world.

484
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: So I'm over in Europe a lot and I'm performing

485
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: him a lot. I'm one of the first, you know, kids,

486
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: rock and roll artists, whatever. Pop going to Japan, I'm

487
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 1: going to Paris, I'm going to Italy. I'm in Paris.

488
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: I'm in Paris. I get married in Paris, and I

489
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: go to the theater where I started as a kid,

490
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: the Olympia Theater, to see one of my friends who

491
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: was top of the bill for a man called Bruno

492
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: Coca Tricks, who was a wonderful guy, a great promoter,

493
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: and he is my guy in France. When I walk

494
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: in and I see the undercard the Beatles, I don't

495
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: know the Beatles, trying to say, what's what's the what

496
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: are they doing with Gilberber go, these kids aren't fresh,

497
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 1: and I see the hair and I see everything. I said, well,

498
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: this is gonna be interesting. So I'm sitting there, luities

499
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, please dear loo to the Beatles. They didn't

500
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: know who the hell they were either. And these kids

501
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: come on and they're my age and they start and

502
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: I'm going, God, damn, this is interesting. This is good, right,

503
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: So I go backstage. Bruno takes me back. I'll send

504
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: you some pictures that we took together. And I meet

505
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: these guys and they say, hey, Paul, how are you?

506
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: And do we love what you're doing? And uh, you

507
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: know you write your own stuff and we want to

508
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: write our own stuff and you produced them in your

509
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: public and I'm wrapping with these guys and I really

510
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: like them. I go to London. We meet up again.

511
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: What I realize in seeing them that there's something else coming.

512
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: But there's not a huge placement for them with me

513
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: because I'm writing these teenage songs. I'm not a guitarist.

514
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: I'm not influencing them on guitar. They're all talking about

515
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: Chuck Berry, they're talking about Fats Domino, you know, all

516
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: the the American acts, the blues. But they're looking at

517
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: me with a respective Well, we hear those violins, but

518
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: you know we're not there, but they're they're really gracious.

519
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: They're really gracious. So I go home after meeting them

520
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: and seeing them on a few occasions, and that's when

521
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: I told Noramy and Sid Burnstein, I brought some records, pictures, etcetera.

522
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 1: And they're looking at me. You know, they're scratching. They

523
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: had because you know, pop music back then, it was

524
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: in its infancy stage, was still growing. There was like

525
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: two agencies. You had three or four cities that were

526
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: making records. I mean, I didn't know where to go,

527
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: and I left Canada. I went to New York because

528
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: it was the closest to Canada. Had a feel for it.

529
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: You know, I want to contest collecting souper rappers. So

530
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: that's how I got in New York. And I know

531
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: that it's it's the center of the music. So with

532
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: it all just starting out like that, when I go

533
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,719
Speaker 1: to England, they didn't have anybody in the charts. We

534
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: we dominated. There wasn't one English act. You had a

535
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: guy named Tommy Steele. The Beatles hadn't really hit yet.

536
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: And then we dominated. Well, of course what they did,

537
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: they took it made it better. We know that story,

538
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: and they had their own life going. But until then,

539
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: there was no way that we were in an accepted

540
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: entity other than our fans, nobody, and you know, certain

541
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: guys in radio, you know, we were some of us.

542
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: We widified rock and roll. You know, when I traveled

543
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: in some cases there's the only white kid on a

544
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: bus and they were my buddies. And I'm going to

545
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: the South for the first time. But the black experience

546
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: was motivating me in Canada. And when you look at

547
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: the history of the music in this country, it's always

548
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: the black experience that is dominating and really happening with

549
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: some legs to it. And that's what I experienced then.

550
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: And to watch it the way it motivated all the

551
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: English and to watch how it grew here and how

552
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: I was pretty much growing up with that music and

553
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: with these fellow artists that were my buddies. Okay, let's

554
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: do a little fill and you talk about writing the

555
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: song for Buddy Holly. Did you know that Linda ron

556
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: Stat was cutting it or was only when it came

557
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,719
Speaker 1: out and then ultimately success. I had no idea issues

558
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: going to sing it. I might have been informed in

559
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: terms of uh issuing a license. Uh wow, what a record,

560
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: what a great singer, what a natural, What a great

561
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: job she did with that song. There's been many covers

562
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: on that song, but I will tell you, outside of Buddies,

563
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: that's my favorite rendition of it doesn't matter anymore of

564
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: Linda Ron said, great, let's go back to the beginning.

565
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: So we're exactly do you grew up in Canada? I

566
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: was born in Ottawa, Canada, which is in the east.

567
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: It's a you know, quite a few miles from Toronto.

568
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: It's a near Montreal, which was a drive from there,

569
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: A hundred fifty thou people and the capital of Canada.

570
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: So you grew up in Ottawa. Two. I grew up

571
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: in Ottawa. I started. I went to school until I

572
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: was in grade ten for the second time, and I

573
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: realized I got to get out of here. And I

574
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: took a course in UH because of journalism of shorthand

575
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: and typewriting. And while growing up, you know, when television

576
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: went on at five in the afternoon and off at ten,

577
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: none of these talent shows. So I was this kid

578
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: thrown out of shorthand. I took music. I was a big,

579
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: big fan of all the music. My mom worked out

580
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: at Sears Roebuck and she me money to go buy

581
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: my records, and that's all I wanted to do. One day,

582
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: it just clicked that I wanted to write and I

583
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: wanted to sing. I started a group called the Bobby Sucksers.

584
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: We would hitchhike do local stuff thirty bucks. I got

585
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: rid of the group because I knew that wasn't gonna work.

586
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: And I was a fan of all the music stuff.

587
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: So while growing up and going to school, Uh, music

588
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: was all I wanted to do. I want to get

589
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: the hell out of there and go wherever I can

590
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: make a record. Now I did prior to getting my

591
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: deal in New York, I came out to Los Angeles

592
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: on a vacation. Let's not go for a second. Okay,

593
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: you're holding it. Why did you have to go to

594
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: grade ten twice? Because I didn't like school that was

595
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: not doing well. I was just it was sports and

596
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: music and they weren't gonna pass me and that was okay.

597
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: And what did your parents say about having to do

598
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: it twice? Well, we all know what parents are like. Yeah,

599
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: they were not They weren't happy. They're dealing with this

600
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: kid or wherever he can sing, sing, sing, no homework,

601
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: no homework, no homework. They weren't happy. You know, my

602
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: dad was you gonna be a lawyer, You're gonna be

603
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: a journalist, and what happened, Well, Dad, I'm not interested.

604
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: I want to write, I want to sing. I want

605
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: to hit shike and sing at the universe. Not happy.

606
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: In fact, I went to juvenile court. Not many people know.

607
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: I was so going home about singing and doing. My

608
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: mother had an Austin Healy. May she rest in peace.

609
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: I lost her at eighteen and I would practice in

610
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: the driveway because it was Canada. You know, You've got

611
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: Ontario and a river in the middle, and then you've

612
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: got Quebec, and the only place you could go to

613
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: get drinks and have a nightlife was in Quebec, and

614
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: all the clubs were there. And I heard about this club,

615
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: the Glen Lee Club, where you'd go amateur contest and

616
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: they throw money and you can make about twenty bucks.

617
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: And I wanted to go over there to put the

618
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: milagin because you know, none of these guys that we

619
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: see today made it like that. It's all you gotta

620
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: put the mileage in, so I started practicing with the

621
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: Austin Healey and then I knew that the Friday night

622
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: was the big night, and I backed the car out.

623
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: My mom was asleep because you know her diabetes, and uh,

624
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: I start driving and I go over this bridge called

625
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: the Champlaine Bridge, and I'm driving this Austinity and it's

626
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: a gearshift right and I'm struggling with the gear shift.

627
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: And I get over there and I parked the car.

628
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: I go in had a guitar, was to do it

629
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley imitation, Johnny Ray song, uh Bill Haley and

630
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: the comments. And I win the contest and I got

631
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: about twenty bucks and I jumped back in the car

632
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: as a major, major snowstorm like only Canada gets. And

633
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: I'm driving home over this Champlaine Bridge and I'm trying

634
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: to get the goddamn gear up in the second and

635
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: third car starts smoking and I hear the parts of

636
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: the hood flying out and hit the hood and I'm

637
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: leaving half the car behind me. And there was an

638
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: exit off the bridge, and I get off the exit.

639
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: I go down to what was Lover's Lane. There was

640
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: a Chinese restaurant and all the kids would go park there. Well,

641
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: I'm a real kid, I'm like fourteen, and I'm sitting there.

642
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: I'm saying, ship, what what am I gonna do here?

643
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: And I see behind me the red beacon and the

644
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: police pull up and they bang on the window. Kid,

645
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: what are your THEA was your pup? Pup? Pup? Uh?

646
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: They leave the car, they take me home. They wake

647
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: up my mother. The poor woman comes through the door.

648
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: You got these huge mountains. You know, I'm like about

649
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: five three at that point. Is this your son? She

650
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: was just so upset. My dad was livid, and I

651
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: found myself in court. He took me to juvenile court

652
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: in front of a judge. They're gonna send me to

653
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: a reform school. So I'm sorry. So I won't do

654
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: it again. Won't do it again. But that was a

655
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: turning point for me because it didn't curtail me in

656
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: any way. I still had my bad habits, and I

657
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: still wanted to write and be in the business. Okay,

658
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 1: what'd your father do for a living? My dad owned

659
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: a restaurant. He had the restaurant in town. It was,

660
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, for Ottawa. It was a very classy place.

661
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: American Canadian type cuisine, and he owned this restaurant until

662
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: it burnt down. We usually restaurants, you're working and the

663
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: kids are working in the restaurant. What was it like

664
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 1: in your family? Exactly what you said. My dad would

665
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: not get home until two in the morning, worked his

666
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: ass off. I mean, I remember the first little house

667
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: we had, you know, one bathroom, scuffling to make it.

668
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: It evolves. We moved out to the west out of

669
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: town a couple of years. I forget what age, maybe fourteen.

670
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: I'm working in the kitchen. I'm peeling potatoes, I'm doing

671
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 1: the carrots, I'm doing the garbage, and I'm going more

672
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: reason the hell out here. I did not want to

673
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 1: be in the restaurant business. And he was just watching

674
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: over me and you know, trying to figure out every

675
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 1: movie how to handle it. You know, he said, really,

676
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: is this what you want to do? And you know, why, why, why? Why?

677
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: But I didn't want to be in the restaurant business.

678
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: And this poor guy was busting his ass till one

679
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: two in the morning every night, So you know, he

680
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: got that call at three in the morning. I'll never

681
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: forget the places on fire. It was on fire. And

682
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: it just broke his heart. It broke his heart. I mean,

683
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: thank god. A couple of years later, with my number

684
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: one record, he came and he worked with me. I

685
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: bought my mom a home like she never had, and

686
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: then you know, she died like a year later. I

687
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: just gave it all back to them, right out of

688
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: the first check. Okay, Now we're your parents warn in

689
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: Canada or they come from the old country as we say,

690
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: their parents old country, My parents in uh in, Ottawa. Yeah.

691
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: He was one of eleven children, and how many kids

692
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: in the family, my sister, my brother, and where are

693
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: you in the hierarchy? Hello, I'm de bas I'm a

694
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: big guy. And put them through school, sent my sister

695
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: to finishing school in Switzerland, sent my brother and uh,

696
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: I'm the big brother. Okay, So what kind of kids

697
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 1: are you growing up? I wish I wish I knew

698
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, did you have a lot of friends?

699
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: Were you an outsider? Were you the leader of the pack?

700
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: Were you always a limit tester? I was social, I

701
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: wasn't the leader of the pack. I I was very

702
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: confident in terms of what I wanted to do. The

703
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: student situation, we know, I was kind of at some

704
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: at some point, not in the pack because with the

705
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: music and then running around singing, you know, they were

706
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: looking at me, my friends saying, you know where I'd

707
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: sit down to the the piano and play for them. You know,

708
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: they loved it, but I wasn't really a part of them.

709
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: You know. I was successful with girls, uh, you know,

710
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: I was still growing and I was a goalie in hockey.

711
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: I was very active in sports. But because of my size,

712
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: I just knew that I wasn't getting the girls and

713
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to be a professional or do anything

714
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: in school. I was this little kid, was very precocious,

715
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: and you know, I just I was a loner. Other

716
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: than being social when I had to on the weekends,

717
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: I was just a determined kid. Okay, how did you

718
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: so tell us the story about being in l A.

719
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: So I had an uncle living out here and they

720
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: wanted me to come out and visit. My dad said,

721
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: you know, you should go out, go on your vacation

722
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: and see California blah blah blah. And so I flew

723
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: out and still music, still music for me. So I'm

724
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: in his apartment, but I'm going down to this Wallacks

725
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: Music Center Wallacks music music, music, right, and I'm in

726
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: the booth that I'm listening, and there's one song on

727
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: the radio I loved called Stranded in the Jungle. Let

728
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: me tell if you remember by the who do you

729
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: remember the Cadets? Right right, right right, Okay. So now

730
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: I'm loving this song, and I got the vinyl and

731
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: I'm playing at the apartment, driving them nuts. And in

732
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: the interim, I got two book reports. I got to

733
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: prepare for school when I go back in the fall.

734
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: So there's this. There was a town called blah Wild

735
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: to be Spontan, and it's it's the premise of the book,

736
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: and it was written by our ex Governor General, so

737
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: it's called Prester John. So I said, wow, what an interesting,

738
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: interesting sounding word. So I started this song blah while

739
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: to be Spontan, blah will to be Spontane were love

740
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: is so splendor? And I write this song. When I

741
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: look on the label the Cadets Stranding in the Jungle,

742
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: it says, uh Modern Records cover City. And it was

743
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 1: like a few miles from my uncle, so I said,

744
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: I said to my uncle, look, will you drop me

745
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: off at this place or I'm gonna hit psych he's

746
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: a gulf taking so he drops he drops me off,

747
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: and I walked in us a storefront. I mean, you

748
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: might as well have been at Harry's, uh confession er.

749
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: And I walk in and everybody's just sitting around the battery,

750
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: brother Saul and I forget his brother's name, the sister,

751
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: and they're like waiting for something. So I walk in. Hi,

752
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: my name is Paul. How you do a kid? What

753
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: do you want? Blah blah blah. I got this song,

754
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: so Saul says, sing it. So I started singing in

755
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: the lobby. I hate like that anymore? Blow will He's

756
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: fund it. Well, I don't know if they were like

757
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: in Shock, but there's a shortage of talent. And the

758
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: guy says to me, he says, well did you get here?

759
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: And my uncle dad a dice? Glad you find he

760
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 1: says how? He says, how did you find us? I said,

761
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: you're on the record label the Cadets. I said, I

762
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: love that, so him he says, well, he says, how

763
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 1: would you like to record it in the garage back

764
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: here and I'll get the Cadets to sing with you.

765
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: I go, this is I'm fourteen, Bob, I'm fourteen. Right,

766
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: I go, you're kidding. He said no, No, he says,

767
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 1: come on back in three days. We're gonna do the SPA.

768
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: Now I am. I am just going nuts with this.

769
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: Now I come back. I walk in the room. They

770
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: introduced me to this guy named Ernie Freeman. Hello Ernie.

771
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: He was just starting up how you do get here? Here?

772
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: I did this arrangement sill of the Cadets, Cadets. These

773
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: were my idols for a month. They said, now you

774
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: stand over here, blah blah blah blah blah, and I

775
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: record the song. The other side was a record, a

776
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: song called I Confess Now I'm in the process. Now, well,

777
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna get it to the hound Dog and Buffalo.

778
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 1: We're gonna get it to the guy in Chicago. Blah

779
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: blah blah. And they released the record How's a Failure fourteen.

780
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what it's sold two records. We are right,

781
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: but it got a little noise in Canada, where I

782
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: was from, for obvious reasons. On this kid out of

783
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: Ottawa and they played it up there. That was my

784
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: first taste in my first recording with the Bahrry Brothers

785
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: Modern Records and the cadets, Blah, Wild the Beast mote. Okay,

786
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: so you go back to Ottawa. What's your next step

787
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: going to school? Paul? You just snow now, So I

788
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: go back. Great ten. But now I got a little

789
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: notoriety up there. Right now, I got a call from

790
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: Norman Jewison, big director up in Canada, who remained a

791
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: friend for years, and he's got this talent show. Well, Paul,

792
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 1: we've got this record. We're gonna get it on the charts. Here,

793
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,439
Speaker 1: come on to Toronto. I go to Toronto, I sing

794
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 1: the song blah, and then somebody else called. Then that

795
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: was it. Then, you know, you have to have sent

796
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: Canada back. In the fifties, we're in the shadow of

797
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: a big giant down here. You know, we didn't dominate

798
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: the way we do today. All these great talents out

799
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: of Canada. There was no one Jasell Mackenzie, you know. Great.

800
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: So that was it. My career ended. But I said,

801
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: I gotta do something. That's when I read about winning

802
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: a contest for I J Food Stores to New York

803
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: and I win, and I go down. But I'm writing now,

804
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: So now I got Diana whoa whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

805
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: let's just go a little bit slower. Okay, you have

806
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: your hit in quotation marks. That ends a little bit slower.

807
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 1: About the talent contest, the writing in Diana, I got

808
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: the taste blow allabys fonte, and I want to keep writing.

809
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: Now I'm throwing out a shorthand class I'm taking music.

810
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: I sit down doing all the classical stuff. Then I

811
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: drift off and start doing my own stuff. There's a

812
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: girl three three years older than I. Now. Back then

813
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: it was relevant. If you're older, the chick is older

814
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: and you're young, you're not getting a date. So I

815
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: write this song I'm so young, you're so old? I mean,

816
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: no Shakespeare, how I felt and I do. I sit

817
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: down and now I've got some command of the piano

818
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: and I'm writing. So I start writing, uh, Diana, tell

819
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 1: me that you love me and don't gamble with love.

820
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: And I'm playing them to my friends. We're parties and

821
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: I'm playing it. But what am I gonna do with it?

822
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: So I went to a local station and made a

823
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: demo record because I told that's what you're supposed to do.

824
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: Then I said, I got to get to New York

825
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 1: and play for somebody. Back then in the fifties, the

826
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: Canadian groups, the Crew Cuts, the Four Lads, they were

827
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: the covers for all the black songs. They're doing Earth Angel,

828
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 1: all the black artists, whether it was Little Richard whomever.

829
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: You know, they were not allowed on white radio. That's

830
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: what prevailed. So you had everybody white to fight, whether

831
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: it was Pat Boone, whether it was these groups in Canada.

832
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: They come to my dad's restaurant, one of the groups

833
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: when I was peeling potatoes in the back and I

834
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: come out and my dad said, you know, my son

835
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: writes you know, and they're looking at me like, please

836
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: let us finish dinner. So now they said, well, you know,

837
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: we're at this new label ABC Paramount, and if you

838
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: ever get to New York, look him up and say

839
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 1: we sent you. I got that occasion when I left

840
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: for on an Easter vacation. I go down and uh

841
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: do go down alone, not knowing anybody where you gonna stay.

842
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: My my my had an uncle who was living down there. Uh.

843
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: They they put me in a room at the President

844
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: Hotel on f Street and he's watching over me. But

845
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: I want my own room. So I'm living at the

846
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 1: President Hotel. I got this one room, and I'm looking

847
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: out at New York and New York back then, as

848
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: you know, that was it, man, that was it. And

849
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm walking the streets and doing and my uncle's watching

850
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: over me. But I don't want to live with him

851
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: so now, and I was only and I only had

852
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: four days to do this. So I get an appointment

853
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: at ABC Paramount and I walk from the hotel up

854
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: to down to forty second. They had a building, the

855
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: Paramount Ability and I walk in my jeans a T

856
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: shirt appointment see Mr Costa and I walk in and

857
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: he looks at me like the Barry Brothers. But it's

858
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: a year later. He says, yes. I said, no, not

859
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: from Canada. I've had da dada and I got these songs.

860
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: He says, we'll sit down and play him. And he

861
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: was a guitar player, and I said at the piano

862
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: and the walls are shaken because I'm a heavy handed

863
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: piano player. He says, we're your parents. I said, there

864
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: in Canada. And he said, well, I want you to

865
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: meet some people. I said, okay. So he gets Am Clark,

866
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: Irwin Garr, Larry Newton, and these guys walk in with

867
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,919
Speaker 1: the suits and they're looking at me. He says, sing

868
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: for him, So that's that singing. He said, where are

869
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: your parents? I said, Darren, Canada. What's but the parents?

870
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: He said, uh, well, we want to sign a contract,

871
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: and you're you're you're too young, but we want to

872
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: record you. Ah. Here I am again. The Baharry brothers

873
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: all over, but no cadets, just these guys. So I

874
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: call my dads. The dad, the dad bah bah. They're

875
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: flying you down. My dad said you sure. I said, yeah,

876
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: just get on the plane. They want to sign me.

877
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: They fly the parents down. We signed a contract. I

878
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: get a hundred bucks a month to write, and my

879
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: parents go home in disbelief. And two days later I

880
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: gotta get to Capitol Records on Broadway and two o'clock

881
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: the afternoon, but at night I'm enjoy in New York

882
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: FI to two. I wake up. I'm late. I'm supposed

883
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: to be at the studio ship And I wanted to

884
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: fix Diana because at the end of the bridge, I go,

885
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: oh my heart, oh oh oh. It always bothered me

886
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: because you know, oh, I mean what's oh? So I said, Scott,

887
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: I didn't fix it. So now I run down Broadway.

888
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: I would get into capital. Now. In those days, the

889
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: cool thing about it, unlike today, everybody had to know

890
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: their parts. Now there's six great musicians looking at me.

891
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: Costs rehearsed them, they know their parts. They put me

892
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: in the booth. I think I know my parts. The

893
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: engineers in there, I'll forget his name. I'm looking at

894
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: a tape machine. It's a quarter of an inch thick,

895
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: and everything's gonna go through that right onto that tape,

896
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: and we're gonna get it done in three hours. They start,

897
00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 1: and I'm in there and we get to Oh, and

898
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: I apologized to Dawn. He said's all right, leave it in.

899
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: We like oh. So we've finished the three songs in

900
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: the Yeah in three hours. I say goodbye the musicians.

901
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: That was it. That was it. Then they do a

902
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: vinyl back. Then you do a vinyl, you ship it

903
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: to the guys in radio. Within a week, you gotta hit.

904
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: Two months later, I'm on American Bandstand, and then a

905
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: month later I'm on Ed Sullivan that I used to

906
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: watch in Canada. So when this span from May to September,

907
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: my life absolutely upside down changed. There's no more Grade

908
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: ten and the American dream is just sitting there in

909
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: my lap, and I couldn't believe it. The cool thing

910
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: about what I felt of the story is what changed

911
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: my life. Prior to going to New York. The Rock

912
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: and Roll Show comes through Canada. They put all these

913
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: guys together on the bus and Chuck Berry Fettes Domino.

914
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: They all came and in the hockey arena about ten acts.

915
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: And I had bought this new jacket with white sleeves,

916
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: and I was gonna break in and get back and

917
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: haven't signed my jacket. I find a way because I

918
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: was a hockey player and I knew the way into

919
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: the backstage. And I go backstage and I get into

920
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: Chuck Barry's dressing room and Chuck is there, first time

921
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: I met him, putting his guitar away. Said oh, Mr

922
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: Barry and Paul Anka, I'm a songwriter night and I

923
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 1: love your music. And I got this song called Diana.

924
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: He says, sing it. It's such singing Diana. He says,

925
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: the worst song I ever had. Go back to school.

926
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: It's in his book. He'll tell you the worst song

927
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: I ever heard. I said, really, so, I you know,

928
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: I looked at him. I oh, okay, and I wasn't

929
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: dejected there at all. As I'm leaving, this guy comes

930
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: around the courtineamed Irving Feld, remember that name. He was

931
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: responsible and a smart cat for all that early stuff.

932
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: He was a very Him and his brother Izzy on

933
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: drug stores in Washington called superstores. But what they did

934
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: they used to rack records, pretty much all the black experience,

935
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: and they would see what was selling, and he and

936
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: Izzy would call up book the act, put them all

937
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: on a bus whoever it was, fifteen Clyde mcfatter, the platters, etcetera, etcetera.

938
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: And that's how he started all of those big rock

939
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: and roll tours. He says to me, what are you

940
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: doing back here? I said, I got a song, and

941
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: he says, get out of here. I said, sir, you're

942
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: gonna hear from me. One day, I said, remember my

943
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: name Paul Anchor. He said, just go. You're not what

944
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: Paul like? Fade out, faded. I get a call the

945
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: following year, guy calls my house. Is Paul Anchor there?

946
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: My dad says, yeah, who's calling? He said, well, my

947
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 1: name is Irving Fell and I'm looking for Paul an.

948
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: He's got the record Diana and it's huge. I want

949
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: to book him. So my dad said, dad, bah bah ba,

950
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: and Irving Feld I said, I know who he is.

951
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: I get on the phone. I said, Mr Feld, Paul Anco,

952
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: remember you threw me out of the auditory. So he says,

953
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 1: oh my god, yes, yes, he said, I want you

954
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 1: on the tour. I said, great, give me three bucks.

955
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: I'm with this guy. I'm under age, taking care of me.

956
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: I'm living in Washington with him and his family because

957
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:33,439
Speaker 1: I'm this kid. And he said, wow, amazing story. What's

958
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: happened here? He said, you know, I want you to

959
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: come back and do another tour because then after the

960
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: tour and ended, I had you are my destiny. I said, look,

961
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: first of all, you got me for three week. You're

962
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: a real smart guy. I said, I'm not coming back

963
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: here unless you become my partner. He said, what I said,

964
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: I want to be in business with you. You're gonna

965
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: look after my career. He says, let me think about it.

966
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: Called me back. He said, we're gonna be partners. Mom

967
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: back down, and Irving felt he was the key to

968
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 1: my success. I learned more from him. You know, guys

969
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: like Geffen and wine Troup smart guys. They all knew

970
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: Irv and those are the guys, whether it's a geffn

971
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: or Wine Troup, Irving, all those guys, the old school

972
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: guys that went through that experience back then, you'll never

973
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: ever see them again ever. And that's what felt was

974
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:31,240
Speaker 1: for me. He taught me so much from business life,

975
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: all that stuff. This guy raised me in Washington, d C.

976
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: Till I left when I was twenty one, I got married. Okay,

977
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: you have success, you're on television, you're on the bus first,

978
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: how do you cope with this emotionally? There are a

979
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: lot of people the success happens, they get into substance

980
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: abuse or they crack up. How do you stay on

981
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: the rail? Well, we had no problem about then. We

982
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: got all we wanted. But seriously, you know, it's a great, great,

983
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: great question to all of us. And I look at

984
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: the kids today and we know those stories back then

985
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: because of my Canadian upbringing, because of Irving, who watched

986
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: over me. And I'm trying to deal with the success.

987
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to keep the nose clean. Now. When

988
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: you see Frankie Lyman, may he arrest a great artist,

989
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, shooting up in the bathroom. Uh, And you

990
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: know the end of the story and how it was

991
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: really hurting his career. Uh and many others that were

992
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: into drugs and not being able to deal with what

993
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: their commitment called them what they were supposed to do

994
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: in terms of respect to what they were given. I

995
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 1: just realized that I wanted to stay in control. I

996
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 1: did not want to go there. But then you know,

997
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 1: it's um. I was always curious about it. I went

998
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: on drug grades with detectives in uh New York that

999
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:10,919
Speaker 1: that you know. I was the first kid to work

1000
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: the COPA and these detectives would come and see me

1001
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: and they said, you want to go into drug rade.

1002
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, but it was just out of curiosity.

1003
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: But I never wanted to, nor would Irve allow me

1004
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 1: be in those circles to where I'd ever get a

1005
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: taste of that. Now, you know, when I'm with the

1006
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: Everly Brothers, Um, Buddy Holly, we drank beer. Uh Don

1007
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: was the only one we knew that really got into

1008
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: the heavy ship. But for the most part, and other

1009
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 1: than the beer, there's a group of us said we're

1010
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: just never ever get unstable. We we just didn't have it. Now,

1011
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,720
Speaker 1: when you start working for the mob at the COPA,

1012
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: you start and then you go to Vegas. You're in

1013
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 1: this group of eyes. They're twice your age. They're telling

1014
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: you to keep your nose clean. They're not gonna put

1015
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: up with any ship. Even though the rat pack. I'm

1016
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 1: experiencing these guys drinking doing, never saw any drugs. You

1017
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: had to keep your nose clean. You're doing two shows

1018
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: a night. You're trying to be a responsible artist. Uh,

1019
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: you're realizing that that's taboo. You're gonna get yourself in trouble.

1020
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: And I didn't want to lose that. I didn't want

1021
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: to lose it. All of this ship was happening before

1022
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 1: I was twenty one, watching those that got in trouble,

1023
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: and you make a choice in life. I did not

1024
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: want to go there. I wasn't a drinker. I'm still

1025
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: not a heavy drinker today. I never smoked a cigarette.

1026
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: Have I done weed, Yeah? Sure? Have I given a

1027
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: little shot at cocaine? Yeah? What is it about? You're

1028
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: curious but never crossing too lines to where you'd get destabilized.

1029
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: And IRV was like on my ass all the time

1030
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: he traveled with me. He made sure I didn't get

1031
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: any any trouble. And I've been that We've been like

1032
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: that ever since. It's been like that ever since. Okay,

1033
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: you know you talk about especially the wave that follows

1034
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: the British invasion. You have all these guitars and other

1035
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: players who are all they can do is play, and

1036
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 1: I feel they're playing will help them with the opposite sex.

1037
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: So you were an older teenager but a young man.

1038
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: You go on the road and a bus with all

1039
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: these other guys. What were your sexual love experiences? I

1040
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: couldn't get enough. Who do I give the money back to? Uh?

1041
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: But you have to realize. You have to realize when

1042
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: you're on that bus at seventeen and you're nowhere with

1043
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: what we're allowed today in terms of what sexuality was,

1044
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: what it represented, you couldn't bring him into Hope tells

1045
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: you're always doing it on the sly. You were always

1046
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: aware of the fact that when you were getting to

1047
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania that you had to get Chuck Berry off the

1048
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: bus because he was wanted in eight states in between

1049
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: and ultimately went to jail at the end of the tour.

1050
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: You heard all the horror stories of the trouble that

1051
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 1: some of them got into my experiences as a young kid.

1052
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't really start getting into it till

1053
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: I planned in Europe, where there were so ahead, what setuality.

1054
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: You know, my first major girlfriend out there was from England,

1055
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: brought her over, moved her over to the States, wouldn't

1056
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: let her go. So it was it was all European

1057
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: and anything domestic I had to be so careful with

1058
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: because you're getting trouble, and we didn't want to get

1059
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: in trouble like Chuck. You know, we love Chuck, we

1060
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: know his talent, but he loved the ladies. And there

1061
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: was a story every time. And you know, I'm a kid.

1062
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: I can't do it. Chuck was doing one or you know,

1063
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: anybody else. I'm the youngest there. The Everley's Buddy Hall,

1064
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: I mean buddy married the secretary at the record company.

1065
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: And it was so elated, and you know, we used

1066
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: to sit around and talk about change your glasses, buddy.

1067
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: Get we were talking about chicks. But they were there,

1068
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 1: obviously we were there, you know. It was it was

1069
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: this group of guys. You know. I had had lunch

1070
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: with the Phil Everley may he rest and I took

1071
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: him in the valley here. He was starting to get

1072
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: ill and we were reminiscing and we haunded like a pack.

1073
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 1: Were these pack of guys And we went to were

1074
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: a little town up in Canada, and every afternoon what

1075
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: do we do with each other? Because all we had

1076
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: to do that night was saying one or two songs

1077
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: and uh. We go to the movie theater and they

1078
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: must have been six of us, and these guys, about

1079
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: ten of these leather biker types were sitting behind us,

1080
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 1: and I think they knew who we were, but they

1081
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: didn't like us, and they start tapping us in the

1082
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: rating us in the theater and we're getting nervous because

1083
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: we're out numbered and these guys were tough. So we

1084
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: walk out of the theater and they follow us out

1085
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: and Phil and I were like, what then, we gotta

1086
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: get back on Hoteling. You now, the band, the Paul

1087
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: Williams Orchestra that traveled with us, Bob, they're all black, right,

1088
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: and great musicians, and there was twelve of them, right,

1089
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: and they were all on the tour together. As we're

1090
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: walking down the street with these guys approaching us aggressively,

1091
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: what comes around the corner? But these twelve black dudes

1092
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: can well, these guys took off. I don't think they've

1093
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: ever seen that many lettle On see the black dude right,

1094
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 1: what's up baby? You need some help there? And he

1095
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 1: and I were just telling story after story after tour.

1096
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 1: He was a great guy, Phil and they were so talented.

1097
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: You know, people don't realize today, even though they're they're

1098
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 1: touching on it, the influence of those guys, and you've

1099
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: written about it. You know, when you sit in that

1100
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 1: room and I'm in the piano, they're playing guitars and

1101
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: you're hearing you know what's gonna come out, and you're

1102
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: talking about the harmony, what they're doing. Look at who

1103
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: they turned on between Buddy and that guitar and the

1104
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: harmonies and all of this to be a part of that.

1105
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: And then you land in England and all they're talking

1106
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: about are these guys and they're copping everything from them.

1107
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: You know, we can't ever forget those foots. Let me

1108
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: tell you, you can't forget it because it was so

1109
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: natural back then. You know, today these guys have got

1110
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: the luxury. You can sit around for eight months, you've

1111
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: got the technology. You're gonna put this great time to

1112
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: grow up, great time to learn, great time for me.

1113
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: When I watched the rat pack when I started as

1114
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: young kid, and I'm at the sad you got me

1115
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 1: hold if I if I had to hold it, I

1116
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't be married. Go ahead, Bob, to what degree on

1117
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: those tours did you see and experience racism? Oh? Baby,

1118
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,919
Speaker 1: does the pope prey? It was when you come out

1119
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: of Canada at my age and not exposed. We're not

1120
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: in a media driven society and you travel down south,

1121
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: that's all you saw. These guys were my brothers and

1122
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 1: sisters on that bus. I got religion real quick, shockingly.

1123
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: So when you pull up to that building for the

1124
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: first time and it goes whites to the left, black

1125
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 1: to the right, and you get into the theater itself

1126
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: and that's all segregated, and there's police with these dogs

1127
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: and they're going after my brothers on that bus. Won't

1128
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 1: let them eat. I had to go around the corner

1129
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: with the bus with all those acts. I'd have to

1130
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: go around into a restaurant and bring the food onto

1131
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: the bus. When we had to go to the bathroom,

1132
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 1: we weren't allowed. We'd slow down about three miles an hour,

1133
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 1: open the door, and we would piss out the door.

1134
01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: I saw so much back then it was brutal. It

1135
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: was brutal to watch and even reared it's ugly head

1136
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: when I started working in Vegas, when they wouldn't let

1137
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: Sammy Davis or Lena Horn when we're at the Sands

1138
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: and they're living over on the other side of town,

1139
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: talented people, and they wouldn't let him into the goddamn

1140
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: hotel or into the pool, and everybody put their foot down,

1141
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 1: and Sinatra led it and said, this ain't going to fly.

1142
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: So from fifty to Vegas and beyond, sir, beyond sir,

1143
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: it was brutal. On me. It was brutal. I've never

1144
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: witnessed anything like that in my life ever. Okay, you

1145
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 1: mentioned playing the copa and the mob. Yeah, go a

1146
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 1: little more details. At what point did you become aware

1147
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: there was a mob in the music business and what

1148
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: was your ultimate interaction The moment I got my feet

1149
01:04:54,760 --> 01:05:00,959
Speaker 1: wet and I had IRV who was older, experienced. He said, look, Paul,

1150
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: this is the business. Here's who controls it. You're gonna

1151
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 1: hear about mafia. You're gonna hear about the mob. They

1152
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: got their hands on the record business, they got their

1153
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 1: hands on the copa. I want you to wear a

1154
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: shirt and tie. I want you to be polite, and

1155
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: I want you to know, Paul, that you're gonna be

1156
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: working for them. They're never gonna hurt you, and you're

1157
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: never gonna ask them for a favor. But this is

1158
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 1: who you're going to work for. IRV the Record Company

1159
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 1: educated me. Now you have to realize that whole mob scene, mafia,

1160
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: it didn't really hit mass public attention until after fifty seven.

1161
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: It was all under under under. You know, I'm living

1162
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: in an apartment around the corner and he gets shot

1163
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: in the barbershop. All of that mafia stuff started to

1164
01:05:55,880 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: come to its head fifty seven fifty night, and I

1165
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: was aware of it, and that was okay. I would

1166
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: go to work at the COPA. Mr Podell was a gentleman,

1167
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 1: shook his hand. I'm always aware of who I'm working for.

1168
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 1: They were the greatest to work for. Bob, you shook

1169
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:18,959
Speaker 1: their hand. You didn't need a contract. And I saw

1170
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: stuff from there till I moved from New York to Vegas.

1171
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: You better keep your nose clean because they were for

1172
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: real and they ran it in and out. They have

1173
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 1: Mush Levy, Morris Levy, great colorful guy back then had

1174
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: to let records, and we all know what he was doing.

1175
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: And he started what we called write a word, get

1176
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 1: a third, which means when one of these kids walking,

1177
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 1: must you go and you're not gonna say, uh, don't,

1178
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna use the word wound. Okay, Mr Levy, write

1179
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 1: a word, get a third. So we know what they

1180
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: were doing, you know, and that was okay. They had

1181
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: trucks coming up to the back door delivering records peppep.

1182
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: You know. We knew we weren't going to get all

1183
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: our money, but that's who you work for, and you're

1184
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 1: aware of it now. It really sunk into me by

1185
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: the time I got to Vegas because I'm working the

1186
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: sands a little bit slower. Sure, you're playing the copa, yep,

1187
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: how do you end up in Vegas? Very simple, Spoka.

1188
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 1: They're all connected. They all know each other. The Copa

1189
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: that was your testing ground. They pick up the phone,

1190
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 1: they call the guys a big jack and Trotter was

1191
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 1: a waiter at the Copa. He goes out to Vegas.

1192
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,919
Speaker 1: He's running their joint. They all knew each other. If

1193
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: you well, let me stick back a little bit, Darren

1194
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: me Frankie Avalon. We're knee deep in these careers, but

1195
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 1: we're hearing, Oh, you may not always have a record,

1196
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 1: You're not always gonna have a hit. We don't know

1197
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: if you're gonna be around. We're now looking up at

1198
01:07:55,000 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 1: these guys, the rat Back, Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Team Mark,

1199
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: the other way they dress. Look At how cool the

1200
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: sound we got to do that. We had no vision.

1201
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 1: Beyond that, no vision, there's no hand Rich, there's no Beatles.

1202
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 1: So we get schooled. We get to tuxedos. We hired

1203
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: these guys that teach us how to do a nightclub

1204
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 1: act because we got to get to the Copa. I

1205
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 1: get to the Copa. I opened with the I think

1206
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 1: Jackie Mason was my opening act, and uh, well, I'll

1207
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 1: get a point a little bit. We're a huge hit

1208
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 1: first time kids there. I got Jackie Mays. There are

1209
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 1: prompt kids all the way around Fifth Avenue till three

1210
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 1: in the morning, and we're doing three shows a day

1211
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: and Jackie Hi, We're a huge hit. Now. For those

1212
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: that remember the Cope, it was his basement club mob

1213
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 1: Rannit and next door was a hotel called the Hotel fourteen.

1214
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: You had to go through this hotel fourteen to get

1215
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: into the copa because there was no dressing room in

1216
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 1: the basement, so you're dressed upstairs and came down through

1217
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: the kitchen. So we finished. We're a huge hit. And

1218
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 1: Jackie was Jackie back then and one of the funniest guys.

1219
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: I mean I have known for years Mary Rest and

1220
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 1: you know he had big balls. And We're a big

1221
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 1: hit that evening and hear you. So now we go

1222
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 1: to work the next night. I go through the entrance.

1223
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: Jackie wants to go through the front door of the copa,

1224
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 1: but the kids lining outside around the corner and Mr

1225
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 1: Podel used to sit there at the table right at

1226
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 1: the entrance with his big ring and chat time. He was.

1227
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 1: He was a cool guy. So Jackie walks in and

1228
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 1: he's passing the kids and Podell sees him as he's

1229
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: entering into the lounge and Jackie says, oh, Mr Podell.

1230
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 1: He says, get back in line, kid and threw him out.

1231
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:57,679
Speaker 1: He didn't know who he was. So so getting back

1232
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,120
Speaker 1: on point, you know, once you work the copa, the

1233
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 1: word got out the kids making money for us. The

1234
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 1: kid can sing the kids an entertainer. This is me

1235
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,639
Speaker 1: Darren and Frankie, you know, trying to evolve to where

1236
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: we wanted to go. They make the phone call, You're

1237
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 1: going to Vegas. Now, Presley didn't work for EVI us unfortunately,

1238
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: but it did later. Do you want to work the

1239
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: sands with the wrap back? I said, are you kidding? Yeah? Yeah.

1240
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 1: So I go out there and uh, I start and

1241
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 1: I'm with these guys. Now. The testing ground for me

1242
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,800
Speaker 1: was before I opened the Sands. They want me to

1243
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: work with Sophie Tucker, America America's favorite group. Make she

1244
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 1: rest and uh. They bring me out and said, look,

1245
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna open a show for Sophie Tucker because we

1246
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 1: want to get a field for us. Yeah, whatever you

1247
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: want to do. I opened the show at the Sahara Hotel.

1248
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,839
Speaker 1: It was the first time ever they've ever seen kids

1249
01:10:57,479 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: coming to a club with their parents. And I'm not

1250
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: talking twenty It was like hundreds of these kids with

1251
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 1: their parents and I do what I do and they're screaming.

1252
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 1: And when Sophie came on, they'd leave. They weren't interested.

1253
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 1: She was really cool. At the end of the I

1254
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: think the second and said, my boy, I want you

1255
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: to close the show. I can't follow you, my boy,

1256
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 1: I said, I said, it's tucking or whatever. So I

1257
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: closed the show. That led me over to the Sands

1258
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: Hotel with the wrap Pack. Okay, you know because so

1259
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 1: much has changed since then, and we know even at

1260
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: this late date, every entertainer has a deal with a

1261
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 1: specific casino, although some operations are more than one casino.

1262
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: All the rat Pack worked at the Sands. Oh yeah,

1263
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 1: Jane Martin, Sammy Davis, Frank Sinatra, wherever Frank was. That's

1264
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: where you wanted to work. They all worked there, And

1265
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 1: that's where IRV and I would go when we weren't working.

1266
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: We would go and what I saw stuff from Kennedy

1267
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: and Monroe and the guys. I got such an education,

1268
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: but it had to be at the Sands Hotel. They

1269
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 1: owned it, They owned it. What was the education? God

1270
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:16,639
Speaker 1: tell us a couple of things. Well, you certainly learned

1271
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: how to perform, or at least you had a guideline

1272
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 1: as to the stick part um. The concept of the

1273
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: fund that they had. Getting the understanding that you'd better

1274
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: take those vocal lessons because those cats are singing for real.

1275
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 1: There's no technology making you sound better didn't exist, only Fabian,

1276
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: and I'll deviate quickly who they found in Philly, part

1277
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 1: of the Frankie avalon that whole group, nice kid, great looking,

1278
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: because that's what they were selling back then, you know, aesthetics. Unfortunately,

1279
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:54,800
Speaker 1: the Americans have sent that all over the world to

1280
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: where it's a priority when it shouldn't be. But anyway,

1281
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: even just with Fabian, when he recalls that there was

1282
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 1: a hundred splices on the song, they took a racer blade,

1283
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 1: they put the tape and they cut it in a

1284
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: hundred pieces just to get a vocal. So what I'm

1285
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 1: saying to you is you have to have a vocal coach,

1286
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 1: and you have to be as good as they were

1287
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 1: professionally in being able to stay in tune and to

1288
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:25,679
Speaker 1: sing the kind of arrangements. Uh, the whole ambiance was magical.

1289
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: There was nothing like it. There was nothing like it.

1290
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 1: You're on a bus in this broken down stadium, and

1291
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're in these great nightclubs. Then

1292
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 1: we started meeting these guys and you started getting the

1293
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 1: input when they liked you, and you saw that behind

1294
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 1: the scenes stuff. I mean right down to when we

1295
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 1: all meet in the steam room at the Saints Hotel

1296
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 1: at one in the morning in a town that had

1297
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 1: two hundred and eighties show girls who all wanted to

1298
01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 1: be in there, and whoever was in there shared in

1299
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 1: the enjoyment. Right, So all that I mean, by four

1300
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:07,519
Speaker 1: in the morning, we were getting haircuts by Jay Siebrin,

1301
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: who's the hot guy. He fly up from l A.

1302
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:12,519
Speaker 1: We're all sitting on the lawn getting hair. Guess the

1303
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 1: girls are waiting inside and I'm looking at these guys

1304
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 1: that I idolized, say what a life? Right, So it

1305
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,640
Speaker 1: was all of that, and it was all of you know,

1306
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: structuring yourself as to be as good as you possibly

1307
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:31,599
Speaker 1: could be in the professionalism that was in that town.

1308
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:33,600
Speaker 1: And that's all that that was. That was that was

1309
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 1: the entertainment town, every lounge, every place that tough people

1310
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 1: in the business were there. Okay, there are in show business.

1311
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:45,760
Speaker 1: Everybody knows everybody, but they're not necessarily friends. No, you're

1312
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: adopted by the rat pack. You're you know, a member yourself.

1313
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 1: Why you what does that happen? And in addition, this

1314
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: was an error with very little publicity, very little story,

1315
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,959
Speaker 1: unlike today. Yeah, well was there. It was the reality

1316
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 1: as good as the images. My question. Yes, yes, yes, Look,

1317
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:12,760
Speaker 1: we're all working for the same group. They're all a

1318
01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 1: part of the success Sammy, Frank, Dean. Did I profess

1319
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: to know all of them well early in the game. No,

1320
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 1: do I profess to say that I knew Dean Martin,

1321
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 1: who was very much a loner. No, I was their respect.

1322
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 1: Sammy got to know well, Frank, I got to know well.

1323
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 1: But the point was there was there was this thing

1324
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 1: of well, if you're working here with us and we

1325
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 1: like what you're doing, the gravitas that I brought to

1326
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:52,000
Speaker 1: the table, if you will, that they were aware of,

1327
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 1: unlike the others. As a writer, so the time you

1328
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 1: write the Longest Day, the Tonight Show theme, you've got

1329
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 1: this different kind of respect to him. Maybe this kid's

1330
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 1: gonna last. And the reviews of me as a performer

1331
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:12,599
Speaker 1: started to embellish, embellish. We need him here because Carl

1332
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:16,600
Speaker 1: Cohen was my godfather. Carl Cohen ran the joint for

1333
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,080
Speaker 1: the guys, as did about six of them. The word

1334
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 1: got out, we're gonna nurt you the kid. He's making

1335
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 1: money for us at the copa where I spent years. Look, ultimately,

1336
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 1: you learn all of us early, you know what the

1337
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:34,679
Speaker 1: whole thing about in this world is all about the money.

1338
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 1: Don't give me its principal, all that bullshit, everything today

1339
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:45,759
Speaker 1: as it was yesterday. It's all about the money, okay.

1340
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:49,720
Speaker 1: And you learned that early. And those guys, I was

1341
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 1: a money machine. I'm selling millions of records. I'm working

1342
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 1: their clubs. There was no one else, you know. I

1343
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 1: think Frankie Avalon came in a few years later. They

1344
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 1: needed to put text us we belonged to them, now

1345
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:06,640
Speaker 1: belong we made money. They never put the muscle on me.

1346
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 1: So Frank would be always there for me. Every time

1347
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 1: I met him for dinner, he talked to me, trying

1348
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: to teach me and say, and do you know he

1349
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,799
Speaker 1: wasn't an educated man in that sense. He was educated

1350
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: because he read a lot and wanted to be but

1351
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 1: he would take care. He was the greatest guy and

1352
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,120
Speaker 1: the greatest friend you could ever have. And if he

1353
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:29,679
Speaker 1: didn't like you, that's a whole other story. But they

1354
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 1: protected you, okay. And you know there's an incident. I

1355
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 1: mean it even hurts me to talk about it, because

1356
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 1: Sinatra can do no wrong for me. I mean, he

1357
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 1: and even Sammy, those guys were something else for me.

1358
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 1: But I was there the night that when Howard Hughes

1359
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: took the place over. You know you hear that, you

1360
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 1: hear everything. That's it with Jimmy Riseli after my show,

1361
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:56,920
Speaker 1: Hey kid, you know we love you, and keep your

1362
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:58,600
Speaker 1: nose clean in this and then he winds up in

1363
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:03,320
Speaker 1: an oil and I'm going, what you start hearing all

1364
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 1: of this stuff, you still getting to get the background

1365
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:12,120
Speaker 1: as to why. And I realized that if I didn't

1366
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,559
Speaker 1: keep my nose clean, I wasn't going to really have

1367
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 1: any kind of career after that. And that's right. Put

1368
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 1: the cards on the table with those guys. Okay, you

1369
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:28,000
Speaker 1: have the success very quickly. Yeah. Do you feel comfortable

1370
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:29,640
Speaker 1: in it or do you have a certain amount of

1371
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 1: impostor syndrome. I'm very comfortable, very comfortable from day one.

1372
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 1: You feel you belong you're unequal. I never felt so comfortable, well, inequal.

1373
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 1: I wasn't unequal to the RAPPI I was in the business.

1374
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 1: I was a singer and entertainer, and I was always comfortable.

1375
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 1: I was not intimidated by them. Now you're in all

1376
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 1: of them, but I always felt comfortable. I felt that belonged. Uh,

1377
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 1: I learned quick. I was very aggressive and where I

1378
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:06,680
Speaker 1: wanted to go. You know, I I took two U

1379
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 1: and fifty dollars pretty much all I had after I

1380
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 1: bought my parents at home. I gave it to the

1381
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:13,759
Speaker 1: record company. I wanted out because I go to Europe

1382
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:16,519
Speaker 1: and it's all down to what it is was today

1383
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 1: is today distributed distribution. My record company wasn't there go

1384
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 1: these little towns. I see r C A Victor, r

1385
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:27,360
Speaker 1: C A Victor, UH washing machines to Victor. So I said,

1386
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:29,840
Speaker 1: the earth, you gotta be with these guys because I'm

1387
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:32,640
Speaker 1: going international. And they were in every store I go to,

1388
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 1: and I don't see the ABC paramount. So I gave

1389
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:37,639
Speaker 1: him back. I gave him two to fifty. I bought

1390
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:41,120
Speaker 1: all my rights back, and I got very aggressive, started

1391
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:44,800
Speaker 1: a company and started making records for our say Victor,

1392
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 1: and I said, I want to go back to Italy

1393
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 1: because I loved that I was singing there for years.

1394
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 1: And I signed with our C Taliana, and I started

1395
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: writing with the Italians and my my in r director

1396
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 1: was in A Morricone who as you know, became the guy,

1397
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 1: but he was my guy. We sold four million records.

1398
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: When I was there, first time ever, they had a

1399
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 1: million seller in Italy. I went to France, started singing

1400
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:16,120
Speaker 1: in French. I did it in German, I did it

1401
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 1: in France. So I got aggressive in terms of where

1402
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 1: my home would be and it was our c Victor.

1403
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: And that changed my life and I rode right through

1404
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:28,439
Speaker 1: that until I wrote My Way in the mid sixties. Okay,

1405
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 1: tell us the story of you in the net. You

1406
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 1: look so interested. Did you like her? Well, she was

1407
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 1: America's sweetheart, literally, but you liked her, right? Were you

1408
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:43,840
Speaker 1: a fan of her? Everybody liked her. She was the

1409
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 1: Queen Squeaky Glee. You know, she was Squeaky all right.

1410
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: So we're touring and then that she's on as you know,

1411
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 1: the whole Disney thing, and Earth says, we're taking this

1412
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 1: girl and then on the old Okay, and I get

1413
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 1: to knowre on the road. We all liked it, obviously.

1414
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:11,960
Speaker 1: So I'm working at. I'm working at. I got this crush.

1415
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 1: It's no more. I'm so young and you're so old.

1416
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 1: So we start swapping spit with all due respect. Good family.

1417
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:24,440
Speaker 1: The mother's out there traveling with us. It's got teachers,

1418
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 1: Disney protected, and we get close. We get real close.

1419
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: I'm out at the home in Encino. We're spending a

1420
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 1: lot of time. Um Disney said, could you write an

1421
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:40,960
Speaker 1: album for you? Write some songs. Absolutely, I do the album.

1422
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 1: We're getting very serious. Disney's now getting hot under the

1423
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 1: collar with We don't want this kind of image. You know,

1424
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 1: there's nothing happening there. It's puppy love, puppy love, and

1425
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 1: they call so I get a song out of it.

1426
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:03,280
Speaker 1: I write some songs for her. We had a great relationship.

1427
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:05,600
Speaker 1: She's probably the first to hear put your head in

1428
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 1: my shoulder because I was playing her everything. I go

1429
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:10,880
Speaker 1: to her house and then seeing these fans. They gave

1430
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:14,439
Speaker 1: her bears. It must have been two teddy bears and things.

1431
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:16,960
Speaker 1: We'd lay on these bears and sit and talk all

1432
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:20,200
Speaker 1: night at her home over there. I realized that she

1433
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 1: did even though she wanted to get married, that that

1434
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,000
Speaker 1: was not going to happen. You know, because when you

1435
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 1: look historically now and that I know I made the

1436
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 1: right decision. Whether you're an athlete, a singer, whatever, When

1437
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 1: a woman comes into your life and you're very successful

1438
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 1: and focused and I want to be careful here your

1439
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:48,200
Speaker 1: I can get off the ball, and you lose a

1440
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:52,800
Speaker 1: lot of momentum because obviously you're over here. So I was,

1441
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:55,719
Speaker 1: my eye was off the ball. I was so wrapped

1442
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:58,800
Speaker 1: up and in love and I was too young, and

1443
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 1: we talked it out and said, look, let's just be friends. Fadeo,

1444
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: fade in. My agent Jack you Alarnadi Marrier. Okay, so

1445
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 1: that's all I'm gonna tell you. I realize I'm not

1446
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:20,920
Speaker 1: gonna dig any deeper. Tell me how you're right there.

1447
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 1: Tonight show theme. I'm in England doing a garage TV

1448
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:31,559
Speaker 1: special and they want two hours, I think, and I said,

1449
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:34,280
Speaker 1: it's a lot of music. You need some relief here?

1450
01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:39,120
Speaker 1: Do we have some comedy? Now? Back then I started

1451
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:44,799
Speaker 1: two guys called Lou and Leslie Grade who later became

1452
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 1: but when I met him that a little office. They

1453
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 1: met me at the airport. Lue shows up at the cigar.

1454
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:56,479
Speaker 1: He takes me to his little office. I'm sitting with

1455
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 1: his brother. We want you to do this Granado show

1456
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 1: because it will help you with blah. We got a

1457
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 1: band for you. Well, come on. They take me to

1458
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 1: this little club and I see these eight guys up

1459
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 1: there in pink suits, yellow suits. Gritz John Barry, John

1460
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 1: Barry seven trumpet player becomes my band, and they said,

1461
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this Granada TV show. He said, great guys,

1462
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,120
Speaker 1: and they were my bookers. They booked me all over Europe.

1463
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 1: I said, can we get some comedy? So they send

1464
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 1: me these kinescopes and I'm sitting there all day watching comics.

1465
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 1: This one guy drank all night. He was absolutely blitzed

1466
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,320
Speaker 1: by three in the morning, goes to bed, but he

1467
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 1: had to get up the next day at eight in

1468
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 1: the morning and host a kiddie show but just screaming kids.

1469
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 1: Johnny Carson. I said, that's funny, So I said, yeah,

1470
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:49,600
Speaker 1: bring him over. So Johnny comes over. Got to know

1471
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:52,599
Speaker 1: him a little, you know, Johnny. No one really got

1472
01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:54,679
Speaker 1: to know Johnny Well. He was brilliant what he did,

1473
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:56,559
Speaker 1: but he was It was nice enough. It was the

1474
01:24:56,600 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 1: beginning of his career. Okay, does his job. We do it.

1475
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 1: I fly home. He fights home. Had an office some

1476
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 1: fifty seventh Street, and I see Johnny coming out of

1477
01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:09,280
Speaker 1: this building. We're in my office. Hey Johnny, Hey, fine

1478
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,439
Speaker 1: bou what are you up to? John? Well, you know

1479
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 1: what I'm doing this and looking he said, I may

1480
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:16,640
Speaker 1: take over this uh tonight show. Well, I might do

1481
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:20,679
Speaker 1: it for like two years. Ha ha ha. So two years,

1482
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:23,120
Speaker 1: I said, Okay, says, you know, I'd like to have

1483
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:25,559
Speaker 1: like a theme song, you know, for me, you know,

1484
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, sure. Now I had had this melody

1485
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:31,840
Speaker 1: tweaked around. Was giving it to a net that might

1486
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 1: even have been a thing. He says, I only need

1487
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds. So again, I take about fourner books on

1488
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 1: my bank account, I glue with the band, take my vision,

1489
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 1: I put down dad and I give it to him.

1490
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 1: That's great. So he takes it, calls me back two

1491
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 1: days later. Any think, he says, Paul, I'm sorry, but

1492
01:25:56,600 --> 01:26:00,639
Speaker 1: I can't use it. I said, why. He said, there's

1493
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 1: a guy that's already been on the show, Sketch Henderson.

1494
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:09,040
Speaker 1: You know, he's sixties and big attitude, and yeah that's

1495
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 1: a sad scene. But he doesn't want any kid writing anything.

1496
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:16,599
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to do it. I said, Oh Jesus, John,

1497
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:19,680
Speaker 1: He says, John, let me ask you a question. If

1498
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: I gave you half of the writer's royalty and half

1499
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:28,639
Speaker 1: the publishing, would that make a difference, He said, Let

1500
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 1: me get back to you. Well, you know the rest

1501
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:35,880
Speaker 1: of the story, right business not two years, it turns

1502
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 1: into thirty nine and he makes a shipload of money

1503
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:42,720
Speaker 1: as I did. And that's the Tonight Show. How much

1504
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:44,640
Speaker 1: money you think you made over the life of the

1505
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:49,760
Speaker 1: Tonight Show from the theme song, Bob, you know I

1506
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 1: should have got it? Well, I know that it made

1507
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:59,320
Speaker 1: so much that NBC stopped the the payments in terms

1508
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 1: of they put a new infrastructure as to how much

1509
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 1: you can make. So my guests, my guests thirty nine years,

1510
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:12,400
Speaker 1: fifteen million dollars, ten million dollars. And you have no

1511
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 1: idea this was going to be the cash cow that

1512
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 1: it was. Nobody did he did he he was editor

1513
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: two years. That was the contract. I didn't even think

1514
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:24,960
Speaker 1: about it. You know, there's so much, you know, there's

1515
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:27,800
Speaker 1: so much that in our industry you can sit back

1516
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 1: and envision what it's gonna be, and there's so much

1517
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:34,959
Speaker 1: you don't even see coming. You know. If that's what's

1518
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:39,640
Speaker 1: that's what's great about our business, you know, because I

1519
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:44,760
Speaker 1: first learned you do something that's gonna make them come back. Well,

1520
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:48,760
Speaker 1: you're songwriter performing, and then don't sit and listen to

1521
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 1: the last person that tells you what to do and

1522
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 1: think negative because you don't know. And William Goldman put

1523
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 1: that great quote nobody knows what he's talking about here,

1524
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 1: and so true in our business today. You look at

1525
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 1: what we're experiencing today, and unfortunately, when I look at

1526
01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:08,920
Speaker 1: the economics, what's happening. I don't know that half of

1527
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 1: these people are even be in business next year. You know,

1528
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:14,240
Speaker 1: labels are not friendly anymore artists. I don't want to

1529
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:17,360
Speaker 1: say they're the enemy, but there here's guys, and you know,

1530
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:20,559
Speaker 1: guys like Lucien who are smart first brick to make it.

1531
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:22,920
Speaker 1: These guys five years ago were making let's say two

1532
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:25,599
Speaker 1: or Adian millions, Sony, they're both doing three of them

1533
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:29,040
Speaker 1: are all doing billion dollars today and without artists, you know,

1534
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:32,639
Speaker 1: they're not sitting there nurturing and working with new people, etcetera, etcetera.

1535
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:34,360
Speaker 1: Now we know where they have to go to make it.

1536
01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:37,439
Speaker 1: You've written all about it, but it's so true. You're

1537
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 1: no longer part of the record company business an artist

1538
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:45,559
Speaker 1: and they sit and you've got the whole Spotify thing.

1539
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 1: Press the button. So the point is it's such a

1540
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 1: new business. Nobody saw this coming, nor would they see.

1541
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 1: I want to see what's gonna happen. You know, we're

1542
01:28:56,200 --> 01:29:00,320
Speaker 1: probably my tenth year in the business. Every ten years

1543
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:03,559
Speaker 1: or so, something new comes along. The Beatles came along,

1544
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 1: This came along, then Michael Jackson, you know, which is

1545
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:09,519
Speaker 1: a whole other story with my life with him. And

1546
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:12,600
Speaker 1: you know that something's coming in five years. What's that

1547
01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 1: going to be? What is the new form going to be?

1548
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:21,120
Speaker 1: Who's going to be around? As I said, my fear today,

1549
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 1: if you're a young lawyer, if you're an agent, let's

1550
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 1: forget about Bruno Mars and Weekend and that the echelont

1551
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 1: that are going to be fine. What's gonna happen to

1552
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:36,599
Speaker 1: all that mid core agents, lawyers, artists. You're gonna see

1553
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:40,560
Speaker 1: some fire sales if things don't pick up. Bob a

1554
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 1: lot in Jeopardy. Here a lot in Jeopardy. Okay, just

1555
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:51,920
Speaker 1: going back, Sure, this enormous success and then style changers.

1556
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:54,880
Speaker 1: How do you deal with this? And how do you

1557
01:29:54,960 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 1: maintain your relevancy decade after decade after decade? Okay, you're

1558
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:04,960
Speaker 1: building on a solid foundation. That's how That's how I started.

1559
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,640
Speaker 1: I said, Look, I'm gonna stay true to what I do.

1560
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 1: Could I become a heavy rock artist? Yeah, I can

1561
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 1: play guitar. I stayed true to who I was where

1562
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 1: I felt comfortable on a solid foundation, and I kept

1563
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:26,320
Speaker 1: changing within that structure with whoever was happening around me.

1564
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:32,639
Speaker 1: But the the criteria of it all was stay the writer.

1565
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 1: That's where you're gonna get the attention and the respect.

1566
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 1: Stay the writer. So I stayed true to writing, gave

1567
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 1: stuff away. I worked at my craft as a performer,

1568
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 1: and I just try to stay with what was happening.

1569
01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 1: But keeping my own identity to it not easy. Not easy,

1570
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:58,479
Speaker 1: you know, when you get to have my baby and

1571
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 1: all that stuff, not that easy. Okay, So you had

1572
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:04,559
Speaker 1: my way, but if you just I used to talk

1573
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 1: to Darren about it when we took the guitar and

1574
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:08,400
Speaker 1: the Geene jacket. You know, we'd sit around. He's a

1575
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 1: good friend. See Bobby, why are you? Why are you

1576
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:14,280
Speaker 1: doing the Dylan thing? You can do it, but it's

1577
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:16,439
Speaker 1: not as good as what you did and who you are?

1578
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:19,400
Speaker 1: Why are you doing this? But he was very politically

1579
01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:22,519
Speaker 1: and tied in. I said, just stay true to who

1580
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:26,440
Speaker 1: you are and our guys will follow us, our crowd

1581
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 1: will follow us. I don't know that I'd be around

1582
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 1: Bob if I wasn't the writer, I don't know, I really,

1583
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 1: you know till I I always stayed as the writer

1584
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:38,920
Speaker 1: first and then a performer, you know. I wrote it

1585
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 1: right through the stuff with Jackson, working with Blue Blay,

1586
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:46,559
Speaker 1: always staying with no rear view mirror, staying relevant as

1587
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:51,240
Speaker 1: you could today, the moment, the moment. You've been married

1588
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:55,120
Speaker 1: three times, Yes, you're not a monk. What have you

1589
01:31:55,640 --> 01:32:00,680
Speaker 1: What have you learned about loving relationships? You never learned? Okay,

1590
01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:04,880
Speaker 1: what did I learn? Well, my first wife and makes

1591
01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:11,200
Speaker 1: she rests thirty nine years uh, five great children, nine grandchildren,

1592
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,160
Speaker 1: and it was a beautiful time in my life. We

1593
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:20,160
Speaker 1: lost her to cancer. Um. I went on to marry

1594
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:25,920
Speaker 1: twice after the first one of the second I had

1595
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:29,080
Speaker 1: a child with. I wasn't planning on getting married, and

1596
01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:33,439
Speaker 1: I wasn't planning on having a child. Well, as things

1597
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 1: evolved and I took care of business. I was a

1598
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:39,880
Speaker 1: gentleman through it all. I fell in love with this boy,

1599
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:45,880
Speaker 1: my first boy, and at the same time I just

1600
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:50,200
Speaker 1: knew that there would be no future in terms of

1601
01:32:50,240 --> 01:32:54,080
Speaker 1: the concept of marriage. Okay, it's a tough business. It

1602
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:57,600
Speaker 1: really is a tough business for everybody. I'm a numbers guy,

1603
01:32:57,720 --> 01:33:00,719
Speaker 1: and when you look at the numbers and a divorce

1604
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:06,759
Speaker 1: of the other fifty are miserable. So that has never changed.

1605
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 1: As I've looked at life and looked at guys, and

1606
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: all my buddies were miserable, and I wish them happiness.

1607
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:16,360
Speaker 1: But I realized that, you know, you get to a

1608
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:19,000
Speaker 1: certain point where a woman and they need to get married. Well,

1609
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:22,759
Speaker 1: if you get married for whatever reasons, and you protect yourself,

1610
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:26,640
Speaker 1: I no longer look at it as a necessity for

1611
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:29,320
Speaker 1: me to be married. I'm very I'm very happy the

1612
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:31,240
Speaker 1: way I am. I've got a great woman in my life.

1613
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 1: I've got my son. I fought in a sense getting married.

1614
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:42,680
Speaker 1: The last two probably won't get married again. Um, you

1615
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:44,559
Speaker 1: know you don't know your wife, Bob to your meet

1616
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:50,120
Speaker 1: her in court. I've definitely learned. So you're never gonna

1617
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 1: beat it, because God bless him. Look, if you read

1618
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:59,080
Speaker 1: Freud on his dying bed and they said to him,

1619
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:01,800
Speaker 1: you know, sigma of all the great things you've done

1620
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 1: and you've achieved in the human mind, is the something

1621
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 1: you couldn't figure out. And if you read the book,

1622
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:11,720
Speaker 1: he said, I can't figure what a woman wanted. I

1623
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:14,720
Speaker 1: can never figure out what a woman wanted. I'm not

1624
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 1: slamming women. I love him, we all love them. It's

1625
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:22,679
Speaker 1: it's just if it isn't working, and if it isn't fitting,

1626
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:26,960
Speaker 1: and if you don't have a friend, and then it's

1627
01:34:27,080 --> 01:34:29,439
Speaker 1: it's it's senseless. You know. There was a great study

1628
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:33,720
Speaker 1: at Harvard. They took these hundred guys from the age

1629
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 1: of twenty on. We're gonna follow you through your life,

1630
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:39,800
Speaker 1: and we get into your seventies or eighty, want to

1631
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:43,680
Speaker 1: come back and see you, guys, which they did, and

1632
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:47,879
Speaker 1: they sat with all of them, billionaire, millionaire, pivot, pivot,

1633
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:51,040
Speaker 1: and they said, what have you learned throughout of this?

1634
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:54,040
Speaker 1: What is it you want now right now? With everything

1635
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:58,599
Speaker 1: you've achieved at your life, all of them, we only

1636
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:02,400
Speaker 1: want now some that we can live with, that cares

1637
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 1: for us. We want someone that cares. How true? You know, men,

1638
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:10,880
Speaker 1: we're not complicated. We're not easy to live with, obviously not.

1639
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:14,840
Speaker 1: But if you don't have that right fit, then you're

1640
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:17,760
Speaker 1: gonna be married three times, which I was, you know,

1641
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:20,559
Speaker 1: and you know what it is. It's a date gone

1642
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:23,280
Speaker 1: wrong because I wasn't married that long and either one

1643
01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:27,599
Speaker 1: I knew what was happening, but it just wasn't working.

1644
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:30,439
Speaker 1: Wasn't working. I guess I I gave my all to

1645
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:34,240
Speaker 1: my first wife, who is an amazing woman, loved you

1646
01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:38,360
Speaker 1: dearly and such a great mother, and I had my

1647
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 1: taste of it. You know, I've been with the best

1648
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:43,719
Speaker 1: of the guys, the Sinatras, the ali Cons, the guys

1649
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 1: I know in Europe, all these great stockers who really

1650
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:49,720
Speaker 1: know about this. That none of them were successful. So

1651
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 1: maybe it's like the flu. You're gonna get it every year.

1652
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:54,080
Speaker 1: You gotta fight and you get rid of it. I

1653
01:35:54,120 --> 01:35:56,840
Speaker 1: can't tell you that I could give you any wisdom there,

1654
01:35:57,360 --> 01:35:59,240
Speaker 1: I've just known. Okay, how about the fact you are

1655
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:05,400
Speaker 1: are ah a road guy? All performers are. Can you

1656
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:08,639
Speaker 1: keep a relationship going if you're on the road a lot?

1657
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:15,559
Speaker 1: And what is the key there? Anyone that travels, you're

1658
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:20,960
Speaker 1: in a restaurant, you travel, anybody very difficult, very different.

1659
01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:24,680
Speaker 1: Now you're down to quality of time and not quantity

1660
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:28,360
Speaker 1: of time. So when you come home the quality you

1661
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:33,479
Speaker 1: put in, because it's just very tough on both parties

1662
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:39,080
Speaker 1: as you're growing. What is the secret the woman in

1663
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:43,200
Speaker 1: your life, not the guy, The woman if she's adjusting

1664
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:48,559
Speaker 1: and still feels that love and understands the guy, you've

1665
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:51,960
Speaker 1: got a chance of making it. Because if you're not giving,

1666
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:55,200
Speaker 1: and if you're not there for in all the needs

1667
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:57,519
Speaker 1: of some of the needs that they need, it's so

1668
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:01,240
Speaker 1: tough because you know, the only only the way I

1669
01:37:01,280 --> 01:37:03,639
Speaker 1: looked at it was and I said to my wife,

1670
01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:05,360
Speaker 1: makes she rest. I said, this is what I do

1671
01:37:06,280 --> 01:37:09,000
Speaker 1: since fifteen years old. You sure you want to be

1672
01:37:09,200 --> 01:37:11,559
Speaker 1: a part of this, are you sure? And I would

1673
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:14,160
Speaker 1: take her, and I would take the kids. And I

1674
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 1: found a friend who understood. Guys just want a friend first.

1675
01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:23,479
Speaker 1: That totally gets us, because it ain't e it's a none,

1676
01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:27,400
Speaker 1: It's an unnatural state. It was created for the nomadic race.

1677
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:33,599
Speaker 1: The nomadic race they lived to what whatever it was,

1678
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't created for today. People go to me, hey, Paul,

1679
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:40,880
Speaker 1: let me missed the old days. It was so simple

1680
01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:42,960
Speaker 1: back then. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no,

1681
01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:46,639
Speaker 1: no no no. The times weren't simple. You were simple.

1682
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:49,599
Speaker 1: I was simple because you know where you are today.

1683
01:37:50,080 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 1: You've got a lot of brilliant, smart people now. And

1684
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:55,840
Speaker 1: I say to them, don't give me this bullshit about

1685
01:37:55,840 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 1: oh yesterday, is if nothing's like yesterday, forget yesterday. You

1686
01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:02,600
Speaker 1: need to live in this moment now where all the

1687
01:38:02,640 --> 01:38:07,040
Speaker 1: intelligences get with it. Don't be judgmental about it. Whether

1688
01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:11,560
Speaker 1: you're married, you're dating, you're working. This is it, baby.

1689
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 1: The trains coming down a track step aside. Smart people today,

1690
01:38:15,560 --> 01:38:19,360
Speaker 1: smart stuff happening today, and they're being smart kids today.

1691
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:21,920
Speaker 1: I'm not getting married. Oh there's too much trouble. I'm not.

1692
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna way to wear thirty. They get it, these kids,

1693
01:38:25,280 --> 01:38:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, as much as they think they've got the answer,

1694
01:38:27,479 --> 01:38:30,599
Speaker 1: some of them do, right. So how are you ever

1695
01:38:30,600 --> 01:38:33,200
Speaker 1: going to figure out what you're gonna do if you're

1696
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 1: living with someone, whether you're married together, give it your

1697
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:39,639
Speaker 1: best shot, give it your best shot. You'll know, you'll

1698
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:43,759
Speaker 1: know and you won't know. No, it's just what it is. Okay.

1699
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 1: You mentioned Michael Jackson. Yeah, tell me about your interaction

1700
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:54,880
Speaker 1: with him and what he was really like. Michael. I

1701
01:38:54,960 --> 01:38:57,840
Speaker 1: knew him and his family when they come to Vegas.

1702
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:01,719
Speaker 1: It see mes, Frankie, I mean, Joe drove that whole family,

1703
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:05,680
Speaker 1: show business, show business, show nice family, you know, talented,

1704
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:09,960
Speaker 1: but we all kind of sensed in the record business

1705
01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:13,920
Speaker 1: and the business itself that Michael had that thing. We

1706
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:18,320
Speaker 1: just saw it when I was doing my album for

1707
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:23,639
Speaker 1: Sony Duets album and I had everyone, Michael McDonald, Canny,

1708
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:26,640
Speaker 1: look great, writers, all kinds of people, real proud of

1709
01:39:26,680 --> 01:39:29,360
Speaker 1: that album. Michael wanted to be on the album. I

1710
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 1: wanted to do two songs with me. So he came

1711
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 1: to see me and Carmel at home at a studio

1712
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:38,439
Speaker 1: and we sit. He spent weeks up there in my

1713
01:39:38,479 --> 01:39:41,599
Speaker 1: guest house, sit and talk to business. Here's a sponge.

1714
01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:45,160
Speaker 1: He just you couldn't tell his kid enough, right, he

1715
01:39:45,240 --> 01:39:49,519
Speaker 1: was so into it. In the interim, thriller is about

1716
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:52,160
Speaker 1: to come out and explode, right, But I'm in the

1717
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:57,640
Speaker 1: middle of this project and he's my last artist. We

1718
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:00,519
Speaker 1: sit down, we start writing, and I get the core

1719
01:40:01,439 --> 01:40:06,400
Speaker 1: of the songs done and the you know, the rhythm, piano,

1720
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:08,880
Speaker 1: some drum, but I get the core of where it

1721
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:14,160
Speaker 1: has to go. I shipped the tapes to Los Angeles

1722
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 1: because I gotta I couldn't have a big band at

1723
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:19,400
Speaker 1: my home, and I'm gonna fly down and work with

1724
01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 1: Michael and finish the songs in Los Angeles. I get

1725
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:28,520
Speaker 1: a call, uh from the record studio in Los Angeles.

1726
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:32,280
Speaker 1: Mr Ranca, Michael Jackson, one of his people came over

1727
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:34,920
Speaker 1: and they took the tapes out of the studio. We

1728
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:37,760
Speaker 1: told him we couldn't release him, but they took him.

1729
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:41,160
Speaker 1: I said, what he took the tapes, it's not going

1730
01:40:41,200 --> 01:40:47,000
Speaker 1: to be recording. Oh so now I fly down from

1731
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:52,880
Speaker 1: Garmel and I go to my lawyers at the time. Uh,

1732
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 1: who remained nameless even though it's out there and there

1733
01:40:57,360 --> 01:40:59,920
Speaker 1: were Michaels. They just I think they just took Michael.

1734
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:02,880
Speaker 1: And then my contract was done between all of us

1735
01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:05,080
Speaker 1: because we're the same firm, and I had a contract

1736
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:09,800
Speaker 1: sewing up. Hey, John, and uh, what's going on? The

1737
01:41:09,880 --> 01:41:12,559
Speaker 1: kids took my tapes. I gotta delivered to Sony. I'm

1738
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:16,679
Speaker 1: gonna well, you know, Paul, he's a thriller, is now

1739
01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:19,840
Speaker 1: taken off and you know he wants to live. And

1740
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:22,200
Speaker 1: then they gave me all this bullshit rhetoric about what

1741
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:25,640
Speaker 1: he wants to do. Oh what am I gonna do?

1742
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:29,320
Speaker 1: I got Sony, I gotta finish, and he's breached this

1743
01:41:29,439 --> 01:41:32,479
Speaker 1: contract and this is not nice. This is just not nice.

1744
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:35,080
Speaker 1: You just don't do this, I know, I said, look

1745
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:37,479
Speaker 1: at the contract he's He says to me, does it

1746
01:41:38,120 --> 01:41:40,880
Speaker 1: what was in file thirty seven? But we can't find it.

1747
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:47,880
Speaker 1: I said, what, So I convene when when my brain

1748
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:50,680
Speaker 1: grew and I said, look, I'm not litigious, but you

1749
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:54,080
Speaker 1: gotta assume I want my goddamn taste back. So I

1750
01:41:54,200 --> 01:42:02,320
Speaker 1: leave this office I was with and they returned to Okay,

1751
01:42:03,240 --> 01:42:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm stuck. So I don't know what I put in there,

1752
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:08,080
Speaker 1: and I don't know who it was. Fade out, fade in.

1753
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:15,320
Speaker 1: Years later, Um, I get a call from Harvey Levin,

1754
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:21,080
Speaker 1: good old Harvey. There's this song out with Michael Jackson

1755
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:24,800
Speaker 1: about the name of the tour this is It. But

1756
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:28,080
Speaker 1: word is that. You know, they found these tapes at

1757
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:31,440
Speaker 1: his house. But somebody said, you wrote I said, HARVEYA,

1758
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:34,519
Speaker 1: I didn't write anything called this is It. Has just

1759
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:38,240
Speaker 1: sent it to me. So he sends it to me. Well,

1760
01:42:38,280 --> 01:42:41,839
Speaker 1: the original title, Bob was I never heard I never

1761
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:45,040
Speaker 1: heard a thing. But what they did they took the

1762
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:49,200
Speaker 1: first line of the song this is it. Here I stand,

1763
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:52,479
Speaker 1: and they put called the tour this is it. They

1764
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:54,680
Speaker 1: called the bubb but they got the plumber, they got

1765
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 1: everything is this is It? And I go, yeah, that's

1766
01:42:57,880 --> 01:43:01,160
Speaker 1: the song. He said, what are you gonna do? I said, well,

1767
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:03,720
Speaker 1: this is gonna be fun because they already screwed me

1768
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:07,960
Speaker 1: the first time. Right, So I call up these these lawyers,

1769
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:11,080
Speaker 1: these guys, right, and I said, okay, this could be

1770
01:43:11,120 --> 01:43:15,960
Speaker 1: real short. Okay, we're gonna fix this fast. We got

1771
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:19,479
Speaker 1: a deadline, and I said, you know what, respect for Michael,

1772
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 1: and it putt putting behind we did. I want fifty

1773
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:25,760
Speaker 1: of everything, and if we're not done by the end

1774
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:31,320
Speaker 1: of the day, it's over. Well we got what we wanted, right,

1775
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:35,200
Speaker 1: and uh, somebody in his company called me nice gentlemen,

1776
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:39,760
Speaker 1: and he said, thank you so much for helping us

1777
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 1: solve this. You know, we found these in the drawer,

1778
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:45,960
Speaker 1: and you know we don't. We didn't know, all right,

1779
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:48,679
Speaker 1: he said, And I found all the stuff. He says, Hey,

1780
01:43:48,720 --> 01:43:51,240
Speaker 1: listen to this one. This is really a good one.

1781
01:43:51,280 --> 01:43:53,759
Speaker 1: I oh, yeah, we'll play to me John. He plays

1782
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:56,759
Speaker 1: and I said, I wrote that too. Love never felt

1783
01:43:56,800 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 1: so good? Right, he said, ship did? I said, don't worry?

1784
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:07,040
Speaker 1: Same terms. So so that was the story. Uh, karma,

1785
01:44:07,160 --> 01:44:11,200
Speaker 1: I guess right. Uh there was his last records, the

1786
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:14,679
Speaker 1: I guess the the cherry on the top word got

1787
01:44:14,720 --> 01:44:20,120
Speaker 1: out to Drake that there was one more song left. Okay,

1788
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:23,439
Speaker 1: I get the call. We go through all this stuff,

1789
01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:25,400
Speaker 1: he says, can I come over the house. So it

1790
01:44:25,439 --> 01:44:27,519
Speaker 1: comes over to my house over here. I live in

1791
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:32,320
Speaker 1: Lake Sherwood, and we meet. The experience is new. First,

1792
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:34,960
Speaker 1: I respect the guys from Toronto. I get what it is.

1793
01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 1: But you're not sitting around a piano. You're sitting around

1794
01:44:37,800 --> 01:44:40,120
Speaker 1: a computer. You know. I'm I'm a guy that sits

1795
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:44,519
Speaker 1: with guys with guitars pianos, and we're talking technical now.

1796
01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:48,639
Speaker 1: So I said, look, here's the song. Don't matter to me.

1797
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:51,599
Speaker 1: It's what I've done here. I said, you take it

1798
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:54,280
Speaker 1: and put your genius on it with your tech guys,

1799
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:57,120
Speaker 1: and let's see if we can break the code. And

1800
01:44:57,160 --> 01:45:00,120
Speaker 1: if we do and we like it, come out. He

1801
01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:04,000
Speaker 1: takes it, got good guys around him. They finished their half.

1802
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:07,120
Speaker 1: We piece it together and we have the last Michael

1803
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:10,480
Speaker 1: Jackson hit with it don't matter to me on the Scorpion.

1804
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:13,120
Speaker 1: So the point of it is, with all the bad,

1805
01:45:13,160 --> 01:45:15,120
Speaker 1: bad and what they did to me back then when

1806
01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:18,679
Speaker 1: I was really I'm not happy with it, it all

1807
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:23,679
Speaker 1: came around, Bob. It all came around. Well, speaking of that,

1808
01:45:24,280 --> 01:45:27,519
Speaker 1: the music business is a crook business, even at this

1809
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:31,880
Speaker 1: leak dep So you started out in the real wild West,

1810
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:35,479
Speaker 1: as we say, and I need to know you know,

1811
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:39,160
Speaker 1: your parents were not sophisticated. You had to sign a

1812
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:43,280
Speaker 1: lot of bad deals. So what did you end up owning?

1813
01:45:43,439 --> 01:45:46,120
Speaker 1: What did you end up getting paid? What went on

1814
01:45:46,280 --> 01:45:51,559
Speaker 1: with the money? Not a great question. I got screwed,

1815
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:55,519
Speaker 1: left it right, uh irb And I got screwed. Left

1816
01:45:55,600 --> 01:46:02,320
Speaker 1: ring to two cents. Uh So, hundred thousand copies that

1817
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:05,880
Speaker 1: sold five hundred thousand copies Europe. It's number one that

1818
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:10,040
Speaker 1: got a black But everywhere you turned, you're getting screwed. Okay,

1819
01:46:10,280 --> 01:46:12,880
Speaker 1: I made some money, you know, I still when I

1820
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:18,559
Speaker 1: started performing, and the royalties are coming in. Uh look

1821
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:22,040
Speaker 1: for a kid that had nothing and grew up in

1822
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:25,880
Speaker 1: a home for real, humble and modest, and you're looking

1823
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:28,240
Speaker 1: at checks coming in from b M I for a

1824
01:46:28,320 --> 01:46:32,080
Speaker 1: hundred thousand. I trusted them more than I trusted the

1825
01:46:32,200 --> 01:46:37,160
Speaker 1: record companies. You're working for promoters. Money is going every

1826
01:46:37,160 --> 01:46:41,280
Speaker 1: which way, every which way, they're always gonna screw you.

1827
01:46:41,439 --> 01:46:44,439
Speaker 1: It's not it's not unlike the motion picture business with

1828
01:46:44,479 --> 01:46:49,360
Speaker 1: the voodoo economics. Come on, it's never changed. Yeah, I

1829
01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:52,840
Speaker 1: got screwed left and right back then, but grateful made

1830
01:46:52,880 --> 01:46:57,080
Speaker 1: some nice investments. But we're always chasing somebody, always trying

1831
01:46:57,080 --> 01:47:00,760
Speaker 1: to get even today. You know, come on, we know

1832
01:47:00,800 --> 01:47:04,760
Speaker 1: what the injuries. What it is today, same bullshit, more lights,

1833
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:08,200
Speaker 1: that's all. You know. You look at the promotion business,

1834
01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:13,040
Speaker 1: touring business years ago. You know, I'm worked Vegas consistently.

1835
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:16,080
Speaker 1: I've worked there right through every regime, right through the

1836
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 1: Howard Us with the boys, Steve Win all of that. Everybody.

1837
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:25,280
Speaker 1: Oh he's got a Vegas sick Oh him and Wayne

1838
01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:30,320
Speaker 1: Newton that town. Oh we won't go near there. Oh

1839
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:34,800
Speaker 1: today they go on the road. I'll do each other.

1840
01:47:34,840 --> 01:47:38,000
Speaker 1: They come home with maybe ten. All of a sudden,

1841
01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:42,000
Speaker 1: somebody decides, you know, and I knew Renee and Selene

1842
01:47:42,040 --> 01:47:45,799
Speaker 1: and fellow Canadians, well we can make more money there

1843
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:48,920
Speaker 1: because they're gonna pay for this and they're gonna pay

1844
01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:52,200
Speaker 1: for that. Oh it maybe. Oh what a beautiful place

1845
01:47:52,280 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 1: this this than Elton comes in. Everybody's going to Vegas.

1846
01:47:56,320 --> 01:48:01,760
Speaker 1: Why it's all about the money. But when I started,

1847
01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, all of us, the everleage, and let's try

1848
01:48:05,600 --> 01:48:08,439
Speaker 1: we we made some money. We made you know, My

1849
01:48:08,479 --> 01:48:11,000
Speaker 1: first big date was ten thousand dollars at Freedom Land

1850
01:48:11,240 --> 01:48:14,280
Speaker 1: for the second DOORFS. I've been to Freedom right, so

1851
01:48:14,360 --> 01:48:17,720
Speaker 1: now I'll never forget this. They send the contracted to

1852
01:48:17,800 --> 01:48:22,519
Speaker 1: the g a C. The agency, the guys, no, that's

1853
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:25,200
Speaker 1: not possible. And instead of ten thousand, he made it

1854
01:48:25,200 --> 01:48:28,360
Speaker 1: out for like a thousand, and there homes killed him.

1855
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:31,120
Speaker 1: He said one. That was my first big money date

1856
01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:33,760
Speaker 1: because when I was working the COPA or I was

1857
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:38,960
Speaker 1: working Vegas, it's making fifteen thousand a week ultimately, but

1858
01:48:39,080 --> 01:48:41,479
Speaker 1: I was doing two shows a night, six weeks in

1859
01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:44,160
Speaker 1: a row. And if you didn't like it, the boy said,

1860
01:48:44,360 --> 01:48:51,040
Speaker 1: out right, But you were always chasing money. You're always

1861
01:48:51,080 --> 01:48:56,200
Speaker 1: getting screwed left and right. And it's unfortunately a lot

1862
01:48:56,280 --> 01:48:59,280
Speaker 1: of money around today, some big numbers out there, Bob

1863
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:01,600
Speaker 1: what of managers and a lot of these acts and

1864
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:05,080
Speaker 1: what they're making. I wouldn't complain if I were them.

1865
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:08,960
Speaker 1: This is real money. They're printing money today, right, and

1866
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:11,320
Speaker 1: our concern is what's it going to be next year

1867
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:16,040
Speaker 1: if things don't get straightened out? Okay, so who owns

1868
01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:22,000
Speaker 1: your songs and your records? Today? I bought my catalog

1869
01:49:22,520 --> 01:49:25,840
Speaker 1: and my stuff for two yo dollars years ago. I

1870
01:49:25,880 --> 01:49:30,280
Speaker 1: owned it, both the songs and the records, the records

1871
01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:34,960
Speaker 1: and the publishing. That's correct. I had sold them portion

1872
01:49:35,240 --> 01:49:39,280
Speaker 1: of to uh A company back in the seventies. But

1873
01:49:40,240 --> 01:49:45,520
Speaker 1: since I started so young, fifty years is over, it's terminating,

1874
01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:48,960
Speaker 1: so I'm getting stuff back, okay. But the record side

1875
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:51,559
Speaker 1: of it, I've always owned it, So I was able

1876
01:49:51,680 --> 01:49:54,640
Speaker 1: today and answer to your question, make a deal with

1877
01:49:54,680 --> 01:49:59,559
Speaker 1: Primary Wave and with Larry Mistell and his group, and

1878
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:02,479
Speaker 1: happy to do so because what they can do. And

1879
01:50:02,479 --> 01:50:06,599
Speaker 1: that's why everybody you know, you've written around it, Dylan whoever.

1880
01:50:07,080 --> 01:50:12,160
Speaker 1: The multiples are crazy. The multiples are crazy. Everybody's selling

1881
01:50:12,720 --> 01:50:17,320
Speaker 1: and I get it. It's so smart. It's so smart.

1882
01:50:18,560 --> 01:50:22,920
Speaker 1: I think, forget about everything else. Get that money today,

1883
01:50:22,960 --> 01:50:26,720
Speaker 1: because you've got families and kids fighting over it. If

1884
01:50:26,760 --> 01:50:29,560
Speaker 1: you're not in cash flown today's world, you've got problems.

1885
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:33,800
Speaker 1: Get it and enjoy it, and just enjoy it. So

1886
01:50:33,840 --> 01:50:36,519
Speaker 1: I made a deal with Larry. We're partners, and I'm

1887
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:39,719
Speaker 1: happy to be there. I'm absolutely happy to be there. Okay,

1888
01:50:39,880 --> 01:50:41,799
Speaker 1: is he did you sell him fifty or a hundred?

1889
01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:46,960
Speaker 1: Fifty's my partner. I didn't want to sell it all.

1890
01:50:47,439 --> 01:50:49,240
Speaker 1: I want to be in the game. I want to

1891
01:50:49,240 --> 01:50:51,040
Speaker 1: be in the game for my son. I want to

1892
01:50:51,040 --> 01:50:54,599
Speaker 1: be in the game for me because TikTok, who saw

1893
01:50:54,640 --> 01:50:57,840
Speaker 1: this coming, put your head on my shoulder. Now is

1894
01:50:57,920 --> 01:51:00,920
Speaker 1: like from this TikTok, which I'm know you're unaware of. Guy,

1895
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:04,439
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. They know what to do with

1896
01:51:04,479 --> 01:51:07,120
Speaker 1: all of that. I don't have offices and people in

1897
01:51:07,160 --> 01:51:09,160
Speaker 1: all I sit back and wait for a phone call.

1898
01:51:09,360 --> 01:51:11,880
Speaker 1: But they know what to do. They're smart, and that's

1899
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:14,479
Speaker 1: their game and they're in it. They're only gonna help

1900
01:51:14,479 --> 01:51:17,200
Speaker 1: me more than I could help myself. Okay, So, at

1901
01:51:17,200 --> 01:51:21,240
Speaker 1: this late date, you've stayed in the game for sixty

1902
01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:25,360
Speaker 1: plus years, and that's an achievement. Literally almost nobody has.

1903
01:51:26,680 --> 01:51:30,200
Speaker 1: So are you running on fumes or there's still some

1904
01:51:30,280 --> 01:51:33,559
Speaker 1: goals you want to accomplish the time you have left.

1905
01:51:34,840 --> 01:51:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm rather you tell me about the time I have left. Um,

1906
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:42,720
Speaker 1: you know, I'm doing a lot of pr for the

1907
01:51:42,760 --> 01:51:46,200
Speaker 1: album lately. Uh you know what I tell him? Some

1908
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:48,280
Speaker 1: guy comes up to me says, you know, I'm thinking

1909
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:52,680
Speaker 1: of retiring. I say to them, you already have you

1910
01:51:52,840 --> 01:51:56,519
Speaker 1: already have. I don't know what that number thing is, Bob.

1911
01:51:56,920 --> 01:51:59,240
Speaker 1: You know, I know about my energy. I know that

1912
01:51:59,280 --> 01:52:01,600
Speaker 1: my number one job for the last year and a

1913
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:04,840
Speaker 1: half has been my health. My health because we're all

1914
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:07,960
Speaker 1: living this life lottery, every one of us. It's a

1915
01:52:08,080 --> 01:52:11,240
Speaker 1: life a lot It is so crazy out there. I

1916
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:13,720
Speaker 1: just keep going. They throw dirt on you if you

1917
01:52:13,800 --> 01:52:18,040
Speaker 1: stand still. I just have to keep going, staying healthy,

1918
01:52:18,200 --> 01:52:21,360
Speaker 1: dealing with the energy goals, what goals I want to get.

1919
01:52:22,040 --> 01:52:23,840
Speaker 1: I want to get the doc done. I want to

1920
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:26,960
Speaker 1: roll it into Broadway, and then I don't care. I'm

1921
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:29,720
Speaker 1: playing with the house is money and it's good for me.

1922
01:52:29,920 --> 01:52:33,880
Speaker 1: I make more money now touring. I'm humbly submitting than

1923
01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:37,519
Speaker 1: I ever did. I played these stadiums and casinos, I'm

1924
01:52:37,560 --> 01:52:41,120
Speaker 1: doing these theaters. I'm going to Israel, I'm going to Italy.

1925
01:52:41,200 --> 01:52:44,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to France. I'm selling out. What smuck would

1926
01:52:44,760 --> 01:52:48,200
Speaker 1: walk away from that? Who? You know? What? What do?

1927
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:53,600
Speaker 1: I've watched guys sit there Sinatra waya door, and and

1928
01:52:53,720 --> 01:52:56,800
Speaker 1: then Tony, God bless them, they paint okay, and then

1929
01:52:56,880 --> 01:53:00,200
Speaker 1: some they got trains, and they've got flowers, and enough

1930
01:53:00,240 --> 01:53:03,200
Speaker 1: already after you watch television, and after you've read all

1931
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:06,240
Speaker 1: the books you're gonna read. I see smart guys die.

1932
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:08,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to be that because it's not in

1933
01:53:08,840 --> 01:53:10,920
Speaker 1: my gene to do that. So when you say goals,

1934
01:53:11,439 --> 01:53:15,000
Speaker 1: I don't have the same goals I had years ago. No, no, no, no,

1935
01:53:15,040 --> 01:53:17,200
Speaker 1: I don't have those goals. I'm gonna keep doing what

1936
01:53:17,320 --> 01:53:20,400
Speaker 1: Anka does. My audience is there, I'm gonna keep doing it,

1937
01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:23,120
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna base my money, just my life

1938
01:53:23,120 --> 01:53:25,880
Speaker 1: on just money, and I'm gonna play how I can.

1939
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:28,519
Speaker 1: In this whole scene, I don't look at you know,

1940
01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:31,160
Speaker 1: I don't look at anyone around me or anything in

1941
01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:34,880
Speaker 1: life as anyone beneath me. I've never ever done that.

1942
01:53:35,439 --> 01:53:39,080
Speaker 1: No one is beneath us. You get these artists today

1943
01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:42,360
Speaker 1: who are way out there, ain't gonna ever work. So

1944
01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:44,519
Speaker 1: I don't have any goals left. I have a goal

1945
01:53:44,600 --> 01:53:46,880
Speaker 1: when I read all these medical journals, I read all

1946
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:49,280
Speaker 1: this stuff. I'm gonna make a hundred if I can.

1947
01:53:50,000 --> 01:53:51,639
Speaker 1: You know, you look at the new stats where these

1948
01:53:51,720 --> 01:53:54,840
Speaker 1: kids born after two thousand, they know they'll live to

1949
01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:57,160
Speaker 1: a hundred fifteen. You and I at our age, the

1950
01:53:57,200 --> 01:54:00,320
Speaker 1: way medicine is going, it ain't easy to die, Bob.

1951
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:03,760
Speaker 1: It just stayed easy. So I'm gonna keep healthy. And

1952
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:07,000
Speaker 1: you know what's kept me young, it's keeping myself together

1953
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:09,800
Speaker 1: to know I got to go on that stage and

1954
01:54:10,040 --> 01:54:14,840
Speaker 1: be straight and be coherent and remember the lyrics that

1955
01:54:15,160 --> 01:54:18,880
Speaker 1: helps me do what I do. So the goals are gone,

1956
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:21,400
Speaker 1: you know, the goals are gone. I've written the book

1957
01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:25,000
Speaker 1: we did find I want to get this doc done

1958
01:54:25,080 --> 01:54:27,280
Speaker 1: and then I want to keep going on that stage,

1959
01:54:27,720 --> 01:54:30,400
Speaker 1: just like Tony did. Okay, maybe it's two years too long,

1960
01:54:30,520 --> 01:54:33,440
Speaker 1: God bless him. Maybe Frank stayed a little, but I

1961
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:37,080
Speaker 1: know because I've spoken with him. They want to die

1962
01:54:37,120 --> 01:54:39,280
Speaker 1: on the stage. They love it. They love it, and

1963
01:54:39,360 --> 01:54:43,440
Speaker 1: it's good to us. It's so good to us. Well, Paul,

1964
01:54:43,480 --> 01:54:47,800
Speaker 1: you're quite an amazing rock and tour. This has been

1965
01:54:47,920 --> 01:54:52,000
Speaker 1: wonderful and we really have only scratched the surface, but

1966
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:54,160
Speaker 1: I think we've come to the end of the feeling

1967
01:54:54,240 --> 01:54:58,640
Speaker 1: we've known on this particular podcast. So this has really

1968
01:54:58,720 --> 01:55:00,920
Speaker 1: been wonderful, and it's amaz easing to me that you're

1969
01:55:01,400 --> 01:55:02,880
Speaker 1: you know, the way we used to say you know

1970
01:55:03,040 --> 01:55:06,200
Speaker 1: your hip to what's going on. That's a negative connotation

1971
01:55:06,280 --> 01:55:08,360
Speaker 1: forty years ago people don't really say him or but

1972
01:55:08,440 --> 01:55:11,120
Speaker 1: you are. I'm stop it. You're just not dropping names.

1973
01:55:11,160 --> 01:55:13,880
Speaker 1: You know what's going on. It's very impressive, So thanks

1974
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:17,240
Speaker 1: so much for spending the time. Hey Bob, listen. Can

1975
01:55:17,280 --> 01:55:19,720
Speaker 1: you keep doing what you're doing, man, because look at

1976
01:55:19,760 --> 01:55:21,640
Speaker 1: that lyric again and you'll know when you wrote that

1977
01:55:21,720 --> 01:55:25,040
Speaker 1: com and I'll send it to you. Thank you. Okay,

1978
01:55:25,080 --> 01:55:28,000
Speaker 1: because my dad when I left home said, never be

1979
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:31,680
Speaker 1: the smartest guy in the room. Never be nice and

1980
01:55:31,760 --> 01:55:34,920
Speaker 1: don't trust, but never be smart. What you do for us,

1981
01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:38,800
Speaker 1: your followers and your fans. No one has the balls

1982
01:55:39,320 --> 01:55:42,120
Speaker 1: to say and write about And I learned from guys

1983
01:55:42,200 --> 01:55:45,400
Speaker 1: like you. I learned from guys and I'm not kissing

1984
01:55:45,440 --> 01:55:47,520
Speaker 1: your ask because I don't have to because you know

1985
01:55:47,640 --> 01:55:50,720
Speaker 1: it and the industry knows it. Don't you stop and

1986
01:55:50,840 --> 01:55:53,320
Speaker 1: you live and breathe it right whether you're on vacation,

1987
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:57,240
Speaker 1: I'll never stopped that. People talk about retirement. Retirement is

1988
01:55:57,400 --> 01:56:00,360
Speaker 1: death death. Why would I want to retire? I know it,

1989
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:02,920
Speaker 1: and you know it. You've got in terms of writing, Yeah,

1990
01:56:02,960 --> 01:56:04,560
Speaker 1: we don't write the same kind of stuff, but it's

1991
01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:06,520
Speaker 1: the same thing. If I don't write for a couple

1992
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:08,160
Speaker 1: of days I start to fall apart. I said, I

1993
01:56:08,160 --> 01:56:10,960
Speaker 1: gotta write something. I got something. You know, that's the

1994
01:56:11,040 --> 01:56:13,560
Speaker 1: game I'm in. That is the game, and you're winning

1995
01:56:13,600 --> 01:56:16,000
Speaker 1: at it. That's the name of it. Bob, thank you

1996
01:56:16,080 --> 01:56:20,080
Speaker 1: so much. Listed parts has been great. Until next time.

1997
01:56:20,680 --> 01:56:21,920
Speaker 1: This is Bob left sex