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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On

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Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our

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Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode thirty nine where we'll

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Speaker 1: be talking stay at home dads with Becky Diffin. Becky

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Speaker 1: is a partner at a big law firm and she

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Speaker 1: and her husband made the decision when they had their

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Speaker 1: first child that he would stay home with their kids.

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Speaker 1: And I know that's something that a lot of our

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Speaker 1: listeners are interested in, and you know, sometimes we idolize

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Speaker 1: that as an idea, but she wants to talk about

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Speaker 1: with the upsides and some of the challenges with it.

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Speaker 1: So it's a great episode, doesn't it. Sarah. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: thought it was one of our more fascinating conversations. Just

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Speaker 1: a lot of food for thought and one of the

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Speaker 1: best hacks I've heard in a long time. All Right,

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Speaker 1: so that's what you're about to hear. So we'll go

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Speaker 1: ahead and dive right in. Or we're excited to have

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Speaker 1: Becky Diffin on the program. She's going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about stay at home dads. I know that's an option

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Speaker 1: or a family setup that a lot of our listeners

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Speaker 1: are curious about or considered. So Becky, welcome to the program.

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Speaker 1: Can you introduce yourself for us? Sure? Thanks for having me. So.

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Speaker 1: My name is Becky Diffin. I live in Austin, Texas,

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Speaker 1: and I am a renewable energy attorney. So I work

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Speaker 1: for a major law firm in what is considered big

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Speaker 1: law with crazy big wall hours, but I get to

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Speaker 1: do it living out of Austin, Texas, which is pretty fun,

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Speaker 1: and I have clients all around the country, so I

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Speaker 1: travel quite a bit. My husband has been staying home

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Speaker 1: ever since we had our first child. We now have

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Speaker 1: a seven year old boy and a six year old girl. Wonderful,

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Speaker 1: So he's he made you guys, made that decision shortly

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Speaker 1: after your first was born? Or did you make it beforehand?

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Speaker 1: I mean when? When? What was the timeline of that.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's funny because I went back and asked

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Speaker 1: him and I said, I don't remember us having a

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Speaker 1: specific conversation about this. How in the world did we

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Speaker 1: end up in this situation? And I think for us,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was always clear that I was going

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Speaker 1: to be the one that had the crazy career. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just it's who I am. You know, always was very

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Speaker 1: ambitious and very much wanted to have that kind of career.

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Speaker 1: Originally thought it would be a business and it became

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Speaker 1: in law, but same sort of thing. So I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, even when we got married and whatever, we

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Speaker 1: just kind of always knew that my career would probably

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Speaker 1: take precedence. And I don't think we had specific conversations

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Speaker 1: about him staying at home, but we kind of knew

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Speaker 1: that we would be he would be taking on a

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Speaker 1: big part of the childcare no matter what. And I

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Speaker 1: think once I got into law school and got my

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Speaker 1: first summer associate position and knew I was going to

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Speaker 1: end up in big law and the hours that that

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Speaker 1: would entail, but also the financial side of that that

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Speaker 1: that would entail, I think that was when we started

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Speaker 1: to say, Okay, this is probably something that when the

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Speaker 1: time comes for us to have kids, that we would

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Speaker 1: want to explore. He's a bit unique and that his

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Speaker 1: dad actually stayed home and so he it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: new concept to him. His dad was an older dad

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Speaker 1: and so had been able to kind of retire early

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Speaker 1: with a pension, and so really was the parent that

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Speaker 1: his mom didn't work crazy hours. But his dad was

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Speaker 1: the one that was home there. And his dad's the

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Speaker 1: one that went up and volunteered, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: library at the elementary school, and he was the one

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Speaker 1: that did, you know, certainly took the lead on the housework.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't a totally new concept for him, but

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Speaker 1: it was definitely something that we just kind of in

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Speaker 1: some ways fell into. And then we had I had

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Speaker 1: my first actually very early for big well purposes. I

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Speaker 1: had him at the very end of my full first

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Speaker 1: year at the firm. So it was really important for

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Speaker 1: me to be able to dive right back in after

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Speaker 1: I had him, and I mean, I took my maternity leave,

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Speaker 1: but when I came back, I wanted to be all in.

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Speaker 1: And so my husband at the time had was a teacher.

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Speaker 1: He was in his seventh year of teaching, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, I think we would have done it regardless.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at the economics of a teacher salary,

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Speaker 1: you know, it won't pay for one kid's child care,

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Speaker 1: but it'll pay probably for two kids child care. And

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Speaker 1: we knew we wanted to have to and we'd probably

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Speaker 1: have them if we could pretty close together. So from

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Speaker 1: an economic perspective, it made sense, and you know, at

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Speaker 1: the given time, and then it certainly made a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense if you were looking forward at the future,

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Speaker 1: because teacher salaries, you know, they just don't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of upside, whereas obviously in a professional capacity, you know,

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Speaker 1: my upside was huge. So we looked at it, you know,

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Speaker 1: from that economic perspective, but really it just it made

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Speaker 1: a lot of sense. So what we did the year

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Speaker 1: we had the first baby, he was born at the

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Speaker 1: end of December, so I had my three month maternity leave,

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Speaker 1: got us through March, and so we really only had

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Speaker 1: April and May left of the school year. So my

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Speaker 1: mom took care of the baby most days for those

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Speaker 1: two months so that he could finish up that school year,

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Speaker 1: and then he stayed home ever since then. The following April,

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Speaker 1: we had our second and so I was home from

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Speaker 1: maternity leave while he was home, which was actually really fun.

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Speaker 1: My second maternity leave was way more fun because I

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Speaker 1: wasn't home by myself and we were both home, we

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Speaker 1: had two little ones. And then when I went back in,

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Speaker 1: I was I actually dove into a huge deal when

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Speaker 1: I went back, and I was able to do that

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Speaker 1: because I had him home with two. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: had two under two at home, and I could still

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Speaker 1: you know, dive in and be able to work the

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Speaker 1: same hours as any other which, particularly as a young

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Speaker 1: junior associate, was really important to be able to make

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Speaker 1: sure that I wasn't setting myself behind since very few

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Speaker 1: of the associates at that point had kids. So can

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Speaker 1: you tell me, because what sort of has that enabled

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Speaker 1: for you in terms of I mean, you have the

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Speaker 1: ability to take a late call, for instance, you're not yes,

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Speaker 1: living there for a lake care pickup, although I would

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Speaker 1: imagine having you know, experienced having many small children at home,

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Speaker 1: but it's still you know, your husband probably would like

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Speaker 1: you to come home at a reasonable time to help

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Speaker 1: out with it. How have you guys made that work? Yeah? So,

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Speaker 1: I mean definitely the biggest advantage is what I would

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Speaker 1: say is flexibility, and so it's flexibility. The conference calls.

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Speaker 1: That's a huge one. So you know, invariably, particularly because

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Speaker 1: I'm a deal lawyer, stuff is just constantly popping up

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Speaker 1: and you're on the phone. You think it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a ten minute call. An hour later, you're still

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Speaker 1: on and those calls are always at you know, five

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Speaker 1: thirty or six o'clock, right when you're trying to walk

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Speaker 1: out the door. And so it is on that particular

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Speaker 1: point it has been a point of contention, and it's

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Speaker 1: one we've worked really hard on communicating about because he

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Speaker 1: would get really frustrated when he thought I was going

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Speaker 1: to be home and then I wasn't, And so anything

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Speaker 1: I could do to say, I have a call it

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Speaker 1: might go late, just so he could kind of mentally

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Speaker 1: prepare himself that I may be lead on a given day.

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Speaker 1: That is a huge one, and it's one that actually,

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Speaker 1: I think really took some work, and he understands that

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Speaker 1: there are days that something totally unexpected happens and I

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Speaker 1: just may not make it home when I thought I

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Speaker 1: was going to. It's a little easier now that the

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Speaker 1: kids are in elementary school. I think definitely you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're home with the kids all day by yourself,

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Speaker 1: you're counting, whether you're a guy or a woman, you're

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Speaker 1: counting down the hours so your spouse gets home and

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Speaker 1: you get a little bit of a break. So definitely,

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Speaker 1: when they were little, it was really really important to him.

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Speaker 1: Now I think we've got it more figured out, and

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Speaker 1: I also I think have more control over my schedule,

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Speaker 1: so I have a better feel for when the calls

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Speaker 1: are and which days may go late. But back to

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Speaker 1: your other question, So I mean flexibility. So conference calls,

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Speaker 1: I travel a ton because my client and my practice

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Speaker 1: is really all around the country. I go to a

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Speaker 1: lot of conferences. I have clients in all different states,

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Speaker 1: and so that's huge that I don't ever have to

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Speaker 1: consult him, you know, other than his one guy's weekend

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Speaker 1: that I get on my calendar the beginning of the year.

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Speaker 1: I know he'll be able to cover. And it's also

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Speaker 1: stuff like the after hours client development. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: I realized a lot of the women's networking groups in

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Speaker 1: town always do lunches and breakfast because that's what's easier

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Speaker 1: for women who are getting home that have kids. But

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Speaker 1: the general networking things the happy hours and such. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to do those when you're trying to

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Speaker 1: get home to do daycare pickup or just to get

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Speaker 1: home and see your kids, and so it's nice to

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Speaker 1: have the flexibility to do that. I mean, obviously, I

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Speaker 1: still want to get home and I still want to

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Speaker 1: have dinner with my kids. I don't have I don't.

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Speaker 1: We don't make a rule that I do it every

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Speaker 1: day because it's just not realistic. But it's nice that

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Speaker 1: I have the ability to do that. But I don't.

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Speaker 1: But I also have the ability to go to a

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Speaker 1: dinner or anything else I need to do, and I

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry about those things. For me, I

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Speaker 1: also am a total night out, and partially that's because

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Speaker 1: just what my job is, I'm on calls all day,

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Speaker 1: so I need the evenings with quiet time to actually

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Speaker 1: work through documents. And I also just find that my

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Speaker 1: most productive times is often after the kids go to bed,

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Speaker 1: so I definitely do somebody who very regularly most days

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Speaker 1: does that second shift after the kids go to bed,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes I'll do that until very very late, but

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Speaker 1: then I'll sleep in in the morning. And that wouldn't

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Speaker 1: work if I had you know, to be on a

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Speaker 1: regular schedule to get the kids to daycare. I can

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Speaker 1: just kind of work on whatever schedule works for me

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Speaker 1: based on for me personally and for my clients. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's so fun, certainly. Yeah, sorry, go ahead, sir. I

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Speaker 1: was going to cut in and to say, like, it's

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Speaker 1: so interesting to hear this, and I think our listeners

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Speaker 1: are gonna have a lot of feelings reacting to this

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Speaker 1: because my I have this weird, like powerful, like jealousy

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Speaker 1: issue when I hear you say all this stuff, because

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Speaker 1: it's like wow, like that that is like an element

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Speaker 1: of freedom that I can't imagine. And you know, many

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Speaker 1: of those forces that you talk about that you don't

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Speaker 1: have to deal with, like the pressure to come home,

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Speaker 1: are the things that kind of prevent me from doing

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Speaker 1: certain things that I'd like to do at work. So

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Speaker 1: you know, in our situation, we we have carefully thought

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Speaker 1: through it too, and it wouldn't make sense for it

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Speaker 1: to be like yours. But I think this can be

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Speaker 1: eye opening for a lot of people, and we may

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Speaker 1: find a lot of people reacting powerfully because there are

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Speaker 1: different I would say, there are there are downsides too

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Speaker 1: that so let's let's let's be clear on this, because

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Speaker 1: there are there are the upsides of the career flexibility,

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Speaker 1: like the going to happy hour, being able to travel

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Speaker 1: without like finding lots of different caregivers to cover or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know, extra hours and all that. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: like if Becky wants to scale down right, Becky is

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Speaker 1: where the money's coming in, So like there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of WNT talk about the pressures that come with

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Speaker 1: it too. Yeah, and then I also have some thoughts

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Speaker 1: on what Sarah just said. So I mean, Ji, I

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Speaker 1: think one of the big ones is what you just said, Laura,

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Speaker 1: which is is just that you know, soul breadwinner pressure.

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Speaker 1: So I lateraled and switched firms almost two years ago now,

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Speaker 1: and when I decided that I was going to start

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Speaker 1: looking at moving from my original firm, I really laid

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Speaker 1: everything on the table, from going in house to going

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Speaker 1: out on my own, going to a small boutique, going

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Speaker 1: to a mid sized firm, going to another big law firm.

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Speaker 1: And it definitely from an economic perspective, was very impactful,

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Speaker 1: but I was the only person that was working. Now.

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Speaker 1: We have always said, and particularly when you're an associate,

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Speaker 1: there is no guarantee in big law of making partner,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, we had always said, well, our

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Speaker 1: plan is as long as Becky still feels like she

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Speaker 1: wants to make partner and she's on partnership track, that's fine.

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Speaker 1: But if we ever got in a situation where for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason, whether because I didn't make partner or just

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Speaker 1: because of what I wanted to do with my career

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to was going to move into a

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Speaker 1: different career or a different salary level within law because

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Speaker 1: in house tends to pay a lot less that you know,

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Speaker 1: he could go back to work, and that was an

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Speaker 1: advantage of him being a teacher, is that actually is

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Speaker 1: something that is relatively easy to go back to. But

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Speaker 1: it definitely when I was making this move was a

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Speaker 1: huge factor. And I mean I didn't only stay in

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Speaker 1: Big Law because of that. It was the right choice

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Speaker 1: for me, but it was something I thought a lot about.

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Speaker 1: And you know, if we were both working high power careers,

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Speaker 1: would I maybe then choose to go in house at

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Speaker 1: some point? Maybe so, But there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: pressure there, and there is you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: worry of just making sure that you do things to

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Speaker 1: continue to grow your career because it's all on you.

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Speaker 1: So that is definitely I think for me one of

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Speaker 1: the things. The other big thing for me is I

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Speaker 1: mean I'm a lawyer. I'm completely type as just like

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Speaker 1: the giving up control, and so I have to let

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Speaker 1: him do stuff and I have to realize I can't

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Speaker 1: do all the stuff that I want to do in

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Speaker 1: terms of, you know, micromanaging summer camp registrations and communicating

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Speaker 1: with the teachers and working on their date their weekly

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Speaker 1: schedules and what all they have going on in their

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Speaker 1: after school activities. You know, We've had times where I'm like,

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Speaker 1: why haven't they gotten registered for whatever sport? And it's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I just need to let him do his stuff. And

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Speaker 1: that's a hard thing, I think, to give up control over,

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Speaker 1: you know, certainly as a mom. You know, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to plan the birthday parties. I wanted to be at

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Speaker 1: every doctor's appointment. When I was growing up. My mom

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Speaker 1: worked some sometimes she was home, but she was always

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Speaker 1: the one that took a start doctum as my dad

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Speaker 1: would never have done that. But because I'm the one working,

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Speaker 1: I still want to try to go to like as

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Speaker 1: many as the physical the annual physicals, just to hear

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Speaker 1: what the doctor has to say. I want to be

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Speaker 1: more involved in planning their birthday party, even though I

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Speaker 1: really should be letting him take on more and more

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Speaker 1: of that, and I think it's something I'm doing better with.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely a process of letting him take control of

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Speaker 1: more and more things. And you just have to pick

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Speaker 1: your battles, you know. I mean, house works a huge one, right,

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Speaker 1: like what state is appropriate for your house? And that

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Speaker 1: was another one that has taken us some like getting

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Speaker 1: used to over the years. And ultimately it was one

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Speaker 1: where even though he's staying home and so we don't

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Speaker 1: have the second income, we still threw money at the

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Speaker 1: problem and we have somebody who comes and cleans the

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Speaker 1: house every week. You know. At first it was like

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Speaker 1: once a month, and we booked it up to every

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Speaker 1: other week and now it's just once a week, and

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Speaker 1: it just it's less and that stress and it's less

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Speaker 1: than that tension. So you know, so yeah, yeah, can

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Speaker 1: you talk about that, Vivie, Because I have looked at

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Speaker 1: some of the time diary data on different family situations, right,

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Speaker 1: and stay at home dads often do not consider the

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Speaker 1: housework to be as much a part of the job

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Speaker 1: as a stay at home mom. Might that I think

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Speaker 1: for many men, those are two separate jobs, and so

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Speaker 1: looking at how time winds up being spent that they've

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Speaker 1: taken on the kid part but not necessarily taken on

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Speaker 1: the house part. And so I'm curious how that discussion

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Speaker 1: went with you guys, how you work through that in

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Speaker 1: terms of what your expectations were, what his were like

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Speaker 1: and ultimately you did decide to outsource part of it too.

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Speaker 1: So why don't you talk through how that all evolved. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it was one of those things where I would just,

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Speaker 1: you know, get frustrated because I was I would come

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Speaker 1: home and I was like, well, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: your view of clean, but maybe that's not my view

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Speaker 1: of clean. And so we just realized that A I

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Speaker 1: just have to like either have it be something that

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Speaker 1: I do, or I need to not bug him about

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Speaker 1: it so much. I mean, he never It's not that

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Speaker 1: he wasn't that he's at all opposed to doing housework.

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Speaker 1: He does it, but I think it's more for us.

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Speaker 1: It was just what he thinks is clean, you know,

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Speaker 1: might be well everything's put in a pile on the counter,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to maybe the pile isn't on the counter,

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Speaker 1: and that's not a big deal. And I mean this

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Speaker 1: is something that I think people talk about a lot

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Speaker 1: in the context of two working parents as well. It's

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Speaker 1: just you have to lower your standards. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's something about maybe just being a professional woman, is

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Speaker 1: you have to lower your standards about certain things. And

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Speaker 1: regardless of whether your husband is staying home or is

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Speaker 1: also working, maybe that's something you just have to lower

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Speaker 1: your standards, or if it's something that is really that

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Speaker 1: important to you that you just can't stand it. And

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Speaker 1: that's not me. I'm not like a super clean person anyway,

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Speaker 1: so I don't it doesn't bother me that much. But

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Speaker 1: I think if it was something where I was one

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Speaker 1: of those extremely clean people, like my counter has to

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Speaker 1: be clear and I can't handle life without that, then

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Speaker 1: you would just have to priority that and realize that

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Speaker 1: that's something you're still going to have to do yourself,

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Speaker 1: or you know, you guys are going to have to

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Speaker 1: work out. But I mean, with any of these things,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's communication, right, and so you know, having

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Speaker 1: those conversations. But definitely it was that was one of

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Speaker 1: the points where we had a lot of communication about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm lucky in terms of him taking on other health stuff.

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Speaker 1: He does, I mean, he does so much, but he

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Speaker 1: also loves to cook. Cooking is one of his passions

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Speaker 1: and so something that for some people is more of

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Speaker 1: a chore for him is actually something that he really enjoys.

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Speaker 1: So that's been great because that allows him to do

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Speaker 1: to do something and enjoy it. That also takes that,

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Speaker 1: you know, off my plate. And we've just as I've

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Speaker 1: progressed in my career and you know, income levels have increased,

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Speaker 1: we've made the decision that you know, yes we've we're

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Speaker 1: down one income and so he theoretically could do everything,

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Speaker 1: but we're now in a position where, like I said,

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Speaker 1: we have the person that comes once a week. We

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Speaker 1: also have you know, a yard service that does just

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Speaker 1: kind of the base six stuff. And so those are

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Speaker 1: things that he could do if we needed him to

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Speaker 1: do him, if we needed to cut costs, but if

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Speaker 1: it makes everybody happier and it opens up his time

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Speaker 1: to do some other things, that that's just a decision

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Speaker 1: that we've made, and so that also I think helps

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Speaker 1: because it's not all on him. There's certain things that

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Speaker 1: just neither of us do and I think it's okay

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Speaker 1: to do that even when you have one of the

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Speaker 1: people staying home. I think sometimes people talk about that

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Speaker 1: a lot of the context of two working parents, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's like telling yourself, you know what, just

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Speaker 1: because he's home doesn't mean he should have to do everything.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that's been something that we've kind

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Speaker 1: of learned over the years of how to balance things,

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Speaker 1: and the truth that is, you're not. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you are lucky in a position to be able to

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Speaker 1: outsource stuff on one income, there's no reason to suffer

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Speaker 1: based on principle. And I will say, like I live

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Speaker 1: in a community where there are actually a number not

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Speaker 1: the same as you, but one income family is where

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Speaker 1: it's the man working and earning a lot, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of these women have multiple people helping them around

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Speaker 1: the house, nanny's books, yard, god like a army, and

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Speaker 1: yet no one that's seene as sort of normal for

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Speaker 1: that echelon. So I think it's, you know, more power

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Speaker 1: to you that you're that you guys are able to

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Speaker 1: do that kind of thing in reverse, and nobody needs

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Speaker 1: to clean just for the sake of saving face, whether

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Speaker 1: that's a man or a woman at home if the

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Speaker 1: family is lucky enough to be able to do that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. I wonder if you could, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the social aspect of this

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Speaker 1: and how people react to your family and how your

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Speaker 1: husband has dealt with it to because I'm sure there's

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Speaker 1: some specific challenges. I know that many many stay at

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Speaker 1: home moms feel isolated in their lives and yet there's

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Speaker 1: like tons of mommy and me stuff out there. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so can you can you talk about that aspect of it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I think this is probably the single biggest thing

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Speaker 1: about say at home Dad, and it's something that I

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Speaker 1: think is really important. You know. I know there'll be

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Speaker 1: listeners that will say, well, my husband would never stay home,

404
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Speaker 1: so this whole episode is not relevant to me. But

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Speaker 1: I think this is actually a point that is really

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Speaker 1: great for everyone to understand. So I think when we

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Speaker 1: first talked about it, we were worried about just that

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Speaker 1: general social stigma of like people like thinking that the

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Speaker 1: man should be the one working and the woman should

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Speaker 1: be the one staying home. And first of all, anyone

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Speaker 1: that knows us knows that that would just never work

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Speaker 1: like that. He defends staying home is not going to

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Speaker 1: happen for everyone's sake. But we've been pleasantly surprised in

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Speaker 1: that we I don't think he's really ever run into

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Speaker 1: people being like, you know, your man's place is in

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Speaker 1: the in the office, and why are you staying home.

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Speaker 1: He's never really run into that. It's been at a

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Speaker 1: different level where these things have come up. And so

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Speaker 1: I'll give a few different examples. So one is just

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Speaker 1: so frustrating, but the assumption that everyone makes that they

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Speaker 1: should call the mother first. For we literally entire time

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Speaker 1: both of our kids were in preschool, never managed to

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Speaker 1: get them to send emails to both of us. It's

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00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: like the class monthly email. They would only send it

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Speaker 1: to one of us, and they could not figure out

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Speaker 1: how to get both of our email addresses on the list.

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Speaker 1: I still I just last month got a call from

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Speaker 1: the school nurse at the elementary school about my daughter

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Speaker 1: because she had fallen in herself and I was out

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Speaker 1: of town, and I said, well, did you call my husband?

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Speaker 1: And she said, oh, well no, I'm like, well he's

432
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 1: the first call. I mean, yes, call me. I'm the

433
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 1: backup and I will deal with it. But he's home

434
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: he can run up to the school right now, and like,

435
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: we have that notated, So why is that difficult? And

436
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: I think people just make this assumption, which is not

437
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: a good assumption, particularly when we have marked that one

438
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 1: thing we've done on the communication thing that is huge,

439
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: and we finally figured it out this year, and I

440
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: wish we had done this forever. We created a family

441
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 1: email address, so it's you know, just our family at

442
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: gmail dot com, and we use that now for anything

443
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: with the school, the teachers, the sports teams, all the

444
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: after school activities, the summer camps, everything goes to that

445
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: email and we both have it as an additional email

446
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: that pops up on our phone genius, and so we

447
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: both see the emails that go in there. I've never

448
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: heard that, and I'm like, that's okay, Like I want

449
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 1: everyone to take a breath and have heard that. That's fantastic.

450
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 1: It is. I read it on the Corporeate blog and

451
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: I want to give a shout out to them because

452
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: it was just seriously life changing last September. And now

453
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: we're both seeing the communications and it makes such a

454
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 1: huge difference because, like I said, when I'm saying the differences,

455
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 1: I think between maybe a working mom versus versus at

456
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: least some dads is some days just don't care about

457
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: any of that. I'm never going to not care about that,

458
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: even if he's the primary running it. I still want

459
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: to kind of get a sense and a lot of it.

460
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: I need to know for scheduling and things like that.

461
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 1: So that is absolutely huge. We both get to teach

462
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: your emails, we both get everything that's going on. So

463
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: that's one thing that's kind of actually a small part

464
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 1: about the social thing, but it's actually makes a really

465
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,239
Speaker 1: big difference in our daily lives. The big thing on

466
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: the social thing is that women a women socialize differently

467
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: than men. You know, they spend a lot more talking

468
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: a lot of guys. And my husband's actually relatively social.

469
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: He's actually very social, I think compared to most guys.

470
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: But it's still just different the way women socialize and

471
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: the way men socialize. So just you know, there are

472
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: a ton of moms groups out there, right, you can

473
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: pick which bonds group you mesh with. If you're lucky,

474
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: your city might have a stay at home dads group.

475
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: A city like Austin I would have expected to have

476
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: like a really strong stay at home dads group, because

477
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: I know lots of stay at home dads, but there's

478
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: still there's not really ever been a group that's really

479
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: had any cohesion and really done anything. And I think

480
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: it's because that's just not the kind of world that

481
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: a lot of guys play in. That doesn't really fit

482
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: with them. So that's hard and definitely like the isolation

483
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 1: and lininess. But the biggest problem that we had, particularly

484
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: when the kids were younger, was him not getting included

485
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: by the moms, and it was for a couple different reasons.

486
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: I think sometimes you know, the moms just didn't really

487
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: think about it. I think there were absolutely some moms

488
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: or some husbands of some of the moms who were

489
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: simply not comfortable with him, say, you know, going to

490
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: the park with a mom and the kids and that

491
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: awkwardness of their being a man and a woman going

492
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: to the park or going to someone else's house. Just

493
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 1: some people. And this is still true with just some

494
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: of the people that we can tell they're not comfortable

495
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: with that, and there's been others. He finally once our daughter,

496
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: he made really good friends with a couple of our

497
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: daughter's friends moms when they were in preschool and then

498
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: it resolved so much better once he had those moms,

499
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: And some of it was they did a lot of

500
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: group stuff, so there were like three or four of

501
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: them all together, and I think maybe that helped, you know,

502
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: deal with it. One of them was our neighbor who

503
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 1: we know super well. So like, I don't think there

504
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: was ever going to be any concerns about you know,

505
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: him hanging out with her or anything. Like they're both

506
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: ex teachers, so they had a ton in common, and

507
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,959
Speaker 1: you know, I but I think it's really important, you know,

508
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: in my position to have ultimate trust, which I completely

509
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: do that there is no I have no concerns about

510
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: him hanging out with other moms, but I understand that's

511
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: not true for everybody. And it was really hard and

512
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: he'd have you know, moms say oh yeah, we should

513
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: let them get together sometimes, but they never respond to

514
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: his text messages or his phone calls about trying to

515
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: set up a playdate. And it was really really hard

516
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: on him. And so you know, I say that to

517
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: all the moms is you know, remember those dads, please

518
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 1: include them too. And you know, if you're at the

519
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: park and there's a bunch of parents hanging out and

520
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 1: one of them is a dad. You know, like, don't

521
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: you know, don't isolate him because he's just hanging out

522
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: with his kids the same way you are, and you

523
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: probably have a lot more in common than you do differences.

524
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: So that was one I've also I don't know that

525
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: we experience this, but I have also heard of some

526
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: parents being uncomfortable letting their kids go on a playdate

527
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: to a house where only the dad was going to

528
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: be there. Oh I've experienced that, yeah, because like if

529
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: I'm on call and they're like, I'll be like, oh,

530
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: like Josh's home, and then sometimes they'll be like this

531
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: hesitation and I'm like, dude, really like to do the hospital.

532
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: He's home this weekend, so you're gonna come over or

533
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: you're not. But like, I get it, And I think

534
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: that lessons as they get older and they're more self sufficient,

535
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: but I think when they were like little in preschool

536
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: and diapers and stuff and you know, needed potty help

537
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: and all that sort of thing, I think there are

538
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 1: some parents that feel uncomfortable with that. And you're I mean,

539
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm with you. Theres it's crazy to be I'm like,

540
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: they we have small little kids, He's we have a

541
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: little boy and a little girl. You've seen it all.

542
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: It's kind of like but I guess, you know, in

543
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: some ways that's the world we live in, and some

544
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: people feel very uncomfortable with that. So I just felt

545
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: like maybe they thought, like, oh, they won't get as

546
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: much attention, like you know, he's gonna be watching sports

547
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: and the kids will be like running up. Like I

548
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: don't know what they thought, but I have I definitely

549
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: it hasn't happened a lot, but I've gotten that little

550
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: like hesitating pause, or maybe they didn't want to put

551
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: him out, Like maybe it was that like they felt like, oh,

552
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: how could I ask your husband to like watch my kid?

553
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, it's very interesting,

554
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: that is yeah, that's yeah. I mean, things you don't

555
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: necessarily think about when you're viewing it from from that perspective.

556
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: But I mean, Becky, if we sort of transition to

557
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: like advice you might give. So let's say one of

558
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: our listeners is, you know, trying to figure out the situation.

559
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: Let's say that they are perhaps in an economic situation

560
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: where or her jobs has more upside or you know,

561
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: has longer hours, or might you know his job doesn't

562
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: necessarily cover the cost of childcare for multiple kids or

563
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: something like that. If a family is considered, what would

564
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: you suggest they think about. Yeah, so I think when

565
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: you're making the decision, I mean, first of all, I

566
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: think there was a there's been a lot of articles

567
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: published that there had been a lot more stay at

568
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: home dads since two thousand and eight because when we

569
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: hit the recession, there started to be a lot of layoffs,

570
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: and so dads involuntarily became stay at home dads. And

571
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: I think that's a very different situation than someone like

572
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: in our situation, where it was a very active choice,

573
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: and I sense that the people where they got forced

574
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: into it. You know, for some people it ended up

575
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: working out great, but I think for others that you know,

576
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: really hurt because they also then have I think more

577
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: of that, Oh, I didn't make even my career, so

578
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: now I'm staying home as opposed to it being an

579
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: active decision. So if you're able to have it be

580
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: something where you know the husband is is excited about

581
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: it and it's something he wants to do, I mean

582
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,959
Speaker 1: that makes a huge difference. So I think, you know,

583
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: number one in all of this is of course, just

584
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: really strong communication and talking about it and understanding too

585
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: that where things are at the time you make a decision,

586
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: I mean, particularly if you're making the decision when you're

587
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: having a baby, what things are going to look like

588
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: then are going to is very different than what his

589
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: mate look like in five years when they start kindergarten,

590
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: and that's this has been a huge transition year for

591
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: us because ours are in first and kinder so this

592
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: is his first year with them both in school full time,

593
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: and it's a totally different ballgame. His schedule now, his

594
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: free time is like in the mornings, but then he's

595
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: super busy in the afternoons and early evenings because he's

596
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: running them around do taller activities, and then he fits

597
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 1: in the errands wherever he wants during the school day

598
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,959
Speaker 1: and gets all that taken care of. So that's a

599
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: really different situation than when we had, you know, two

600
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: under two. So I think understanding that it's a conversation

601
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: that you have to continue to have and recognize that

602
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: things will continue to evolve over time. I think that's important.

603
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about the economics, and certainly that's

604
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: part of the decision. I think you have to look

605
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: not just at the economics at the time that you're

606
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: making the decision, but the future economics. Obviously, there's been

607
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: tons of articles written about women becoming stay at home

608
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: moms and then trying to get back into the workforce

609
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: and how difficult that is. Well, of course, that same

610
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: thing applies to a man, and in fact, I think

611
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: there has been research that shows that it's even harder

612
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: for a man because you know, workplace would say you

613
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: took time off to stay home with your kids, and

614
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: now you want me to think you're serious about your career,

615
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: and which is I mean, it's completely unfair, quite frankly

616
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: for men or women. But some jobs work better than others.

617
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: So we always knew with him as a teacher that

618
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: would be a lot easier of a job for him

619
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: to get back into. It also allowed him to do

620
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: some things along the way, especially in the early years

621
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: when we weren't totally sure if this was something we

622
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: would do, you know, in the long term. He made

623
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: sure to keep tutoring so that he kept something on

624
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: his resume. He also did some coaching, some swim lessons,

625
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: and did some stuff just so he still had things

626
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: on the resume. And kept him busy. Was also just

627
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: a good outlet for him. Now that has become clear

628
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: that this is like our long term plan, he's actually

629
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: been writing novels and he's just written the first two

630
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: books of a three part trilogy, and we're working on

631
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: publishers and trying to find you know, all that kind

632
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: of world. And so now you know, and I think

633
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: this is true of a lot of stay at home

634
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: parents and in particular dads. A lot of times they're

635
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent not working, but their work is

636
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: something like this where he's writing or tutoring kind of

637
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: side jobs. I hear a lot of consultants. One of

638
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: my good friends is also a lawyer. Her husband is

639
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: kind of quasi stay at home. They go through different

640
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: phases and he'll take a contract job and sometimes they

641
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: would get a nanny for a while while he was

642
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: on a contract, and then he'd you know, be totally

643
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: off for a while and they wouldn't need any help,

644
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: and so they would kind to go back and forth

645
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: balancing that. So there's a lot of scenarios like that

646
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: where it's maybe part time or gig style work, you know,

647
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: in the new gig economy that we're in. So I

648
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: think thinking about those those choices, and then obviously also

649
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: thinking about you know, for either side somebody's choosing to

650
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: stay home, are they what are they doing to their

651
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: long term earnings potential? So while you know it might

652
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: make sense to stay home right now, if it's going

653
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: to limit your salary potential for the rest of your career,

654
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: that's very different than something like a teacher, where it's

655
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: not going to go up very much over time. And

656
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: also looking at the fact that your family costs are

657
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: going to change a lot. So you know, one can

658
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: in daycare, but if you have a second shortly thereafter,

659
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: suddenly you're paying for two or the cost of a nanny,

660
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: and how does that, you know, offset the lost salary.

661
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: And then also I think realizing that I think sometimes

662
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: people make their economic calculations only thinking about daycare and

663
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: don't think about the fact that there's still are costs

664
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: once you're are in elementary school. And so when you

665
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: are looking at like your cost savings, you know, we

666
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: don't have to have the kids in summer camp all

667
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: summer because we put them in a few for fun,

668
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: but he's home, so we don't have to have that

669
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: you know, care during the summer, we don't have to

670
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: worry about off days and things like that. And I

671
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: think the other thing about communication is is really communicating

672
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: about things like what we talked about earlier about the housework,

673
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: and you know, what are the expectations and who's going

674
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: to be responsible for what. For some families, I think

675
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: they end up even if it's you know, with a

676
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: stay at home spouse, maybe you know, obviously it's no

677
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: longer fifty to fifty, but maybe it's like eighty twenty,

678
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: or you know, sometimes it's maybe ninety five to five.

679
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: For some families, I think it they kind of settle

680
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: into these are the things this person does, and these

681
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: are the things that person does for other families, And

682
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: I'd say we're probably more of the latter. It really

683
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: fluctuates over time, depending on what, like how busy I am.

684
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: So right now, I'm in a crazy deal cycle and

685
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: I'm working really really long hours and I'm doing very little.

686
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: But then you know, this deal will close and I'll

687
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: have a time where I'm a little slower and I'll

688
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: suddenly start doing a lot more stuff. And so our

689
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: balance really changes on a cyclical basis, just depending on

690
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: what I have going on at work at the time,

691
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: So I think thinking about that, and then I think

692
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: it's really important for the stay at home spouse and

693
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: certainly for dads not only the social stuff that we

694
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 1: talked about having that sort of outlet, but also having

695
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: both like a brain outlet, like something they're doing to

696
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: use their brains. And that's something you hear all the

697
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: time too about stay at home moms, right is like

698
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: they feel like they're just sitting around little kids all

699
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: day and like they're not using their brains anymore. So

700
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: finding you know, whatever kind of activity or hobby they

701
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: like that allows them to do that and to have

702
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: adult conversation and still you know, be able to do that.

703
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: And also, I think a lot of guys are different

704
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: about hobbies like women are. A lot of women like

705
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: to do lots of different things, and like we targular earlier,

706
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: a lot of women's hobbies, you know, are very social.

707
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: It's really really important for guys to figure out what

708
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: is going to be their time. For my husband, that

709
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: has varied over time, and now a lot of this

710
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: is his new right has been new passion for writing

711
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: and spending time working on his novels. For another one

712
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: of my good friends, it became the gym and he

713
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: has literally his group of mom friends are a group

714
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: that he picked up at the gym and he goes.

715
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: And when the kids were really little, he could put

716
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: them in childcare, so it was, you know, a time

717
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: for him to have a break. Now they're in school,

718
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: so he doesn't need that, but he still goes all

719
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: the time, and that's become both a social environment but

720
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: also then allows him to work out regularly, so that's

721
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 1: kind of his outlet. He's also always kind of seems

722
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: to have some sort of side project going on that

723
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: he's always working on, and so whatever it is, making

724
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: sure that they find what that outlet is. And then

725
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: I think, for for the working spouse, it's really important

726
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: to respect that time. And I actually have started working

727
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: home a lot from home a lot more in my

728
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: new firm, and so I'm home and I think he

729
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: at first felt bad when I would see him, you know,

730
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: at ten o'clock in the morning, like playing video games

731
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: or or recognizing that he needed to build time into

732
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: his schedule for his writing. And I was, you know,

733
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: I was like, it's fine, I get it. This is

734
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: your downtime. You know, it's okay that your downtime is

735
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 1: in the morning because you don't have it maybe in

736
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,959
Speaker 1: the later afternoons and evenings. But I think he felt

737
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: kind of bad about that, and we did, especially when

738
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: he decided to take his writing to a new level

739
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: and start treating it like a part time job. We

740
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: had very honest conversations about like being very respectful that

741
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: he was going to block out times and this was

742
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: his writing time, and you know, I could I needed

743
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: to respect that time. And because we had that conversation

744
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: up front, it made a really big difference. And I

745
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 1: think it's been a really really great outlet for him.

746
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: Oh wonderful. Well, yeah, this has been all great, lots

747
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: lots to think about and good advice for people who

748
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: are considering this topic. Do you have anything else? I don't,

749
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: but I suspect we're going to get some good reader

750
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: comments and questions on this. So, Becky, when Laura posts

751
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: a blog post on this episode, hopefully if you're able

752
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: to chime in, absolutely, because I suspect you're going to

753
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: get some feedback and I think it'll be really fascinating.

754
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: So we always do our Yeah, we always do our

755
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: Love of the Week to wrap up, so we can

756
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: go first if you want, Sarah, what's your love of

757
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 1: the week. Oh, mine's very simple, and I will go first.

758
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: There's a chance I may have to my baby. Apparently

759
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 1: it's hungry. I got texted during this speaking of primary

760
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: parent at the moment, so I'll throw mine in there

761
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: just in case I have to jet. But the TV

762
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: show this is us. I know, like everyone watches it,

763
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: but we relate to the party. I love that show.

764
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: It got me through pregnancy, it got me through and

765
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: now it's like our favorite. Like it's like the only

766
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: thing we do at night right now because I'm in

767
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: that sort of season of where you're just waking up

768
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: to feed the baby. But I just love it and

769
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: I just finished the seas in two and I can't

770
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: wait for the next season. Awesome my love of the week,

771
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: which I'm sure I feel like I've already done this,

772
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: But Uber again, Uber again. I took Uber downtown yesterday

773
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: because it was we're recording this in April. We just

774
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: had the Villanova National Champion parade through Philadelphia, and I

775
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: knew like I was gonna get stuck somewhere with my car,

776
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: so I ubered down and then walked around the parade

777
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: to get an uber to go back home. So it

778
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: was perfect. And it's so great to be able to

779
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: go places in other cities and not be trying to

780
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: figure out how I'm getting a cab service back to

781
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: the hotel. So that's that's my love of the week, Becky.

782
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: You know, it was funny because I was trying to

783
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: decide between two, but I already got to mention the

784
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: concept of the family email address. So my other one,

785
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: as I travel so much, is my new Briggs and

786
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: Riley suitcase, which is called their carry On Upbrak garment bag,

787
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: and it's a half garment bag, half suit case, all

788
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: in a rollerboard size that easily fits in any overhead

789
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,919
Speaker 1: and I mostly wear addresses and it is for work

790
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: and it is the most amazing suitcase. I mean, I

791
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: know it's crazy, I think that a suitcase could be

792
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: like changing, but it allows me to pack really efficiently

793
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: and none of my dresses get wrinkled anymore. And it

794
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: is my new current love. All right, that's a good one. Well,

795
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: thank you, Becky, we really appreciate it. Thank you for

796
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: having me. So that takes us to our question and

797
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: answer time, we're going to be talking about vacation days.

798
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: So we got a great question from a listener asking

799
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: how She says, how do you and Sarah handle taking

800
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: vacation time from work? So obviously I work for myself,

801
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: so it's a little bit different. I have a lot

802
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: of flexibility, she said, But perhaps you're can to address

803
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: this in conjunction with your husband's work schedule too. How

804
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: much vacation time do you take? Do you always do

805
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: it when the kids are off of school, or do

806
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: you ever take time off and stay home or various

807
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: other combinations. By way of background, she lives in Colorado,

808
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 1: but she and her husband both work for New York

809
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: based companies. Her husband travels a lot, she works from home.

810
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: They both officially have three weeks of vacation, but she

811
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: says that taking vacation time is maybe neutral or possibly

812
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: slightly frowned upon in their corporate culture. They tend to

813
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: use vacation for family type events, long weekends, weddings, Thanksgiving, etc.

814
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,479
Speaker 1: They have some particular situations with one of their child

815
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: children that makes it difficult for both of them to

816
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: go simultaneously, but that's obviously a different issue. But she says,

817
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: if I look at the vacation time I took last year,

818
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: it works out to taking about twelve days out of

819
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: my fifteen vacation days. I am very conscious of taking

820
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: time off because I do work remotely and I never

821
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: want to be seen as taking advantage of the situation. Also,

822
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: her employer has been understanding about her son's health issues

823
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: the special needs she needs to deal with, and she says,

824
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: I'm very thankful for that flexibility. She often works at

825
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: night in the morning's to compensate her she needs to

826
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: take time off with her kid, but she's also trying

827
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: to minimize vacation time. However, before writing this, she took

828
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 1: off a day to spend with her son, the first one,

829
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: doing something special with him, and she loved it, so

830
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: she says, I would really like to have more days

831
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: like that. Any thoughts you have on taking your vacation

832
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: days is much appreciated. So, Sarah, what's your vacation policy?

833
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: I take it all. No. My policy is I'm okay

834
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: with letting work bleed into life sometimes, Like if I

835
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 1: have extra patient notes, I'm going to write them on

836
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 1: a Saturday because I have to get them done and

837
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: I want to really give one hundred and ten percent

838
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: when I am at work, and in exchange for that,

839
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: I feel like you really only do live once. And

840
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: in America we really get a lot less. We really

841
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: don't get very much vacation. And the truth is that

842
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: twelve days, it's not a lot of days. Although maybe

843
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: she also gets legal holiday, I'm assuming in addition to

844
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: the fifteen like she gets Christmas, etc. Yeah, So I

845
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: think if you're doing an exceptional job at work and

846
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: meeting expectations or exceeding expectations, that there's really nothing to

847
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: be gained from leaving vacation days on the table. And

848
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: I recognize that may differ, you know, based on the

849
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: corporate culture. I guess I'm lucky. In medicine, I would

850
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 1: say most doctors, No, not most, but many doctors do

851
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: take some or all of their vacation time. I have

852
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: some colleagues that almost never take vacation. And to be honest, like,

853
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: my manager's so annoyed at this one, well, not annoyed,

854
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: I shouldn't talk like that. She's a wonderful doctor, she's

855
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: extremely dedicated, but we would all be so happy if

856
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: she did take time for herself because rest helps and

857
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: is really really important and ultimately probably helps me to

858
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: be a better physician knowing that I do get that

859
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: downtime and family time and kind of enjoying more balanced life.

860
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: And there's certainly a push towards wellness in a lot

861
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: of corporate cultures, you know, in the big Silicon Valley

862
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: type of campuses, and maybe eventually that will bleed into

863
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: other corporate environments. But I guess my personal take is,

864
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: do an awesome job at work and take your vacation

865
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: and enjoy that time with your family because you're never

866
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: going to get it back. Yeah. Do you tend to

867
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: take it all at once though? Or a little bits

868
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: here on that? But I mix it up well. Now

869
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: that I'm eighty percent time, I tend to use my

870
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 1: actual vacation days for the big times because I get

871
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 1: like a day off a week, you know, built in,

872
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: So that's my sort of little vacation days. But back

873
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: when I was full time, I did a combination, so

874
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: I would do a few like one off days so

875
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: I could even spend with kids or like as a

876
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: like a girl's weekend, and then I'd usually take ten

877
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: either five days all in a row to do a

878
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: week with two weekends on the side, which made for

879
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: a nine day stretch, or I would do like last year,

880
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: we did a full like two and a half weeks

881
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: basically because it was like, you know, each the three

882
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: weekends plus ten days off will get you sixteen days

883
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: off in a row, which is which feels quite cleansing,

884
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: and it allows you to take kind of a bigger

885
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: trip than you other would otherwise would be able to do.

886
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: I'm also a big proponent of taking your vacation days.

887
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: I think one thing obviously with the culture of different industries.

888
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: So in medicine, you're there or you're not, right, like

889
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: you're seeing your patients or you're not. Yes, I think

890
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: the corporate world, I mean, especially since she already is

891
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: working remotely, it's like, well, you could just take one

892
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: call today, right, you know, and there you'll check your

893
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 1: emails if anything important comes in. Right. So there's there's

894
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: less of this dividing line between being officially off and

895
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: being officially on, and a lot of people feel like

896
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: they do need to still be available. But you're right, medicine.

897
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: Medicine can bleed over, though my type of medicine does.

898
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: Like if you're an er doctor, it's probably not going to.

899
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: But I'll have patients that send in my work email

900
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: something that you know, if I check it, which often

901
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: I do, like it'll feel urgent and I'll have to

902
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: deal with it, or I'll get a text for my

903
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: medical assistance that's like, oh, I'm so sorry to bother

904
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: you about X y Z. So believe it or not,

905
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: it's not. It depends on the field. It's not always

906
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: so clear cut. Yeah, but I do think that it

907
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: is worth taking some time off regardless, and maybe you

908
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: couldn't work it out a way too that you agree

909
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: to like check in for half an hour in the

910
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: morning on a day or two of your your week

911
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: long vacation, that that can work for people who feel

912
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: like there are situations they need to manage. That's the

913
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: thing with working for myself. I could take whatever time off,

914
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: I guess, but I almost never take days completely off

915
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: because I'm usually at least like glancing at email in

916
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: the morning or something like that. Do you feel that

917
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: sometimes you need like a cleanse, like to totally go

918
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: off the grid for a few days. No, I don't know,

919
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: because I you know, in general, I don't feel like

920
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: it's something I have to do right, I'm choosing it

921
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: and so it's not quite the same thing. I probably

922
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 1: should try taking a day or two and not looking

923
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 1: at it just to see. But then you know, you

924
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of stuff comes in and then

925
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: you have to never know, and that perfect opportunity we

926
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: needed to give a Ted talk tomorrow, like exactly exactly,

927
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 1: but I guess I just don't. I mean, I don't

928
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: consider my work all that stressful per se. So since

929
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,439
Speaker 1: because of that, it you know, it's more about saying,

930
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: can I keep it in a little tiny chunk of

931
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: time that it then doesn't bleed into the rest of

932
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: the day that I'm taking off. And because of that,

933
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: I've probably taken like five weeks off in any given year,

934
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: but not off like I took in my log. Talent

935
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: is I'll probably have worked at least five hours during

936
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: any of those given weeks. Got it? But yeah, if you,

937
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: if you're working for a company, I do think take

938
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: your days like no one wins by martyrdom. You just

939
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: wind up dead. So all right, well this has been

940
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: best of both worlds. We've been talking mostly stay at

941
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: home dads with our guest Becky diffin a lot of

942
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: food for that there and then vacation days. So we'll

943
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: be back next week with more on making work in

944
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me

945
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore

946
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at

947
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of

948
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more

949
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: on making work and life work together.