1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:10,520
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Pastor J. P. Miller arrested.

2
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,800
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

3
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,600
Speaker 1: being with us. God hates divorce. But why?

4
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,280
Speaker 2: According to everybody I've asked and the scriptures that I've found,

5
00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 2: it's because it hurts people.

6
00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,760
Speaker 3: But does abuse hurt people?

7
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 4: How do you think God feels about that?

8
00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 5: I was thinking, any NUMU one one, what's the address

9
00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 5: of your emergency?

10
00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,960
Speaker 6: I have my location on I think on my phone.

11
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:59,480
Speaker 6: I just want my family to know where to find me.

12
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:16,720
Speaker 7: You you're cracking JP.

13
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:19,919
Speaker 1: Your BEPI as coming.

14
00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:26,560
Speaker 8: We told you, yea.

15
00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:34,119
Speaker 1: What is a pastor doing getting into a brawl in

16
00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,480
Speaker 1: the parking lot? According to reports, you just saw footage

17
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,680
Speaker 1: from our friend and guess, Melissa Pfeiffer joining us, And

18
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 1: you saw footage from at the Robbie Harvey at the

19
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 1: Robbie Harvey joining me an all star panel to make

20
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,680
Speaker 1: sense of what we are learning right now. But I'd

21
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,800
Speaker 1: love to see that mudshot again. Is that possible? I

22
00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: want to feast my eyes on that for just one moment.

23
00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:07,600
Speaker 1: This pastor comes to the forefront of our national conscious

24
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,360
Speaker 1: after his wife commit suicide. Now many people do not

25
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,200
Speaker 1: believe that she did commit suicide. And there he is

26
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:22,440
Speaker 1: in all of his splendor and glory. John Paul Miller,

27
00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,919
Speaker 1: I still have the burning question, what is a pastor

28
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:31,240
Speaker 1: doing in a brawl in the parking lot with me

29
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,160
Speaker 1: and All Star panel. First, I want to go to

30
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,960
Speaker 1: a special guest joining us. You just saw some of

31
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:43,120
Speaker 1: her video, Melissa Pfeiffer, who filmed Miller's alleged assault. Melissa,

32
00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,400
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What happened.

33
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 9: We were there and we were on the side of

34
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,120
Speaker 9: the sidewalk the aligned the church, and we were just

35
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 9: protesting at the time. We had there was a neighbor

36
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:55,840
Speaker 9: that was out there that was talking to us, and

37
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,240
Speaker 9: we were distracted and our backs were turned towards the

38
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,119
Speaker 9: college and one of the young girls that was with

39
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,960
Speaker 9: us turned around and said, that's JP. And when we

40
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,160
Speaker 9: turned around, we saw him over there and it looks

41
00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,960
Speaker 9: to be like he was recording us, and at that

42
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 9: point when I turned my camera to him, he took

43
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,480
Speaker 9: off in the other direction, and so one of the

44
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 9: fellow protesters, you know, she ran across the street because

45
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,440
Speaker 9: that's where our cars are a parked, and we didn't

46
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,160
Speaker 9: know what he was doing. We had no idea why

47
00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,520
Speaker 9: he was creeping up behind us or anything. So when

48
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 9: we went over there, as you see in the video,

49
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:38,400
Speaker 9: like he was running away, he stopped, turned around or

50
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 9: charged at her, and you can hear her in the

51
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,840
Speaker 9: video saying, you're in my personal face. And that's when

52
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,360
Speaker 9: he said, what are you going to do? And he

53
00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 9: hit the brim of her hat twice with their phone

54
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 9: while he was saying what are you going to do?

55
00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,800
Speaker 9: And that's when you see her, you know, go in

56
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:56,280
Speaker 9: on him.

57
00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 1: Wait, let me understand something. I'm gonna have to get

58
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 1: you to tell your story again because I wait, there

59
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,560
Speaker 1: he is getting it? Oh wait, is that him? Did

60
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,760
Speaker 1: I see him? Jackie? Was that him touching her hat?

61
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,560
Speaker 1: I want to hear the whole thing again, Melissa, because

62
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,440
Speaker 1: you were talking so quickly. I'm afraid I miss something,

63
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,600
Speaker 1: but very quickly. I want to go to high profile. No, no, no, no,

64
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 1: you were perfect. I just don't want to miss anything.

65
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,680
Speaker 1: Regina Ward is joining US high profile lawyer and she

66
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 1: is representing Micah Miller's family law firm of Regina B. Ward. Regina,

67
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 1: I remember one l first year of law school, we

68
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,440
Speaker 1: were talking about torts and one of the cases we studied.

69
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,520
Speaker 1: It's a similar case in US law. This had to

70
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 1: do with a racist. There was a black male I believe,

71
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,280
Speaker 1: with his wife at some luncheon like you know, kawanas

72
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: or rotary or something like that. And there was a buffet,

73
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,640
Speaker 1: as there is because you know they meet at lunchtime,

74
00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:08,000
Speaker 1: and the victim had picked up a plate to go

75
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 1: through the buffet and another guy that did not want

76
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 1: the victim there went up and grabbed the plate out

77
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,560
Speaker 1: of his hand, and that was deemed a battery because

78
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,719
Speaker 1: if you touch something that is touching another person, like

79
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 1: the plate or like this woman's hat, that is considered

80
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 1: a battery.

81
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,720
Speaker 10: Regina, Yes it is, and him charging her is an assault.

82
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,480
Speaker 3: A lot of people think that an assault and battery

83
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,760
Speaker 3: kind of go together, where you can have an assault

84
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 3: without a battery.

85
00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,760
Speaker 10: Always say that, you know, the definition of assault is

86
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 10: like when he charged putting a fear into somebody and

87
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:54,440
Speaker 10: then raising your hand and is an assault. That unwanted touch,

88
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 10: even if it doesn't cause a bruise, a scratch or anything,

89
00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,159
Speaker 10: is an unwanted touch.

90
00:05:59,279 --> 00:05:59,880
Speaker 3: And that's ill.

91
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,839
Speaker 1: It's what we call a simple battery. Now, if it

92
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: escalates or if a weapon is used. You point a

93
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,360
Speaker 1: gun at someone, You don't shoot them, but you point

94
00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,000
Speaker 1: the gun at them. That is an aggravated assault. As

95
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,880
Speaker 1: Regina just stated correctly, putting someone in fear of immediately

96
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,120
Speaker 1: immediate bodily harm is an assault. If it's with a weapon,

97
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,120
Speaker 1: even your fists, it's an aggravated assault. You can get

98
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 1: twenty years to life on that. In this case, it

99
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,919
Speaker 1: would be a simple assault putting the woman in fear

100
00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,320
Speaker 1: or a simple battery, you know, grabbing her hat. Okay,

101
00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,880
Speaker 1: back to Melissa Pfeiffer, who filmed the incident. If I

102
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,240
Speaker 1: could get the control room to please run it again.

103
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,560
Speaker 1: As Melissa's talking, Lissa, there's been a lot of confusion

104
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,600
Speaker 1: about what happened. You're an eyewitness. Tell me from the beginning.

105
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,159
Speaker 9: So we were there and we were on the side

106
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,800
Speaker 9: of the sidewalk that ben aligns with the church. We

107
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,680
Speaker 9: were protesting, and one of the neighbors had walked up

108
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,840
Speaker 9: to us and was talking to us, so our backs

109
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:08,240
Speaker 9: were turned towards the college. We couldn't see behind us, obviously,

110
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,040
Speaker 9: and then one of the girls that was with us

111
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 9: had turned around and said, that's JP, And so when

112
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,080
Speaker 9: we all turned around, we saw him and he was

113
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,480
Speaker 9: like on the sidewalk part across the street at the school,

114
00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 9: and it looked to be like he was possibly recording us.

115
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 9: I don't know exactly what he was trying to do,

116
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 9: nor do I know how long he was back there for.

117
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,280
Speaker 9: When we turned around and put in our cameras at him, he.

118
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,080
Speaker 11: Went to run off towards where his truck was, and

119
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:47,200
Speaker 11: that's when the other protester who he assaulted was across uh.

120
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 11: She went to run across the street to see what

121
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,280
Speaker 11: was going on because we didn't know why he was

122
00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 11: over there, and that's where we parked, and you know,

123
00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,120
Speaker 11: seeing the videos, she she's running at him, but she

124
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 11: stopped at the cars well within a healthy distance away

125
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,400
Speaker 11: from him, and then he stops in the track, turns

126
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 11: around and charges at her, and you see her put

127
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 11: her hands behind her back and she stands there and

128
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 11: you hear her on the video say you're in my

129
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,800
Speaker 11: personal face, and.

130
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,400
Speaker 9: He was in her face saying what are you going

131
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,320
Speaker 9: to do? What are you going to do? And then

132
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,320
Speaker 9: he hit the brim of her hat with his phone

133
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,320
Speaker 9: two times, and then he went to walk off, and

134
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 9: she that's when she ran behind him telling her him

135
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,240
Speaker 9: he didn't get to touch her.

136
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:40,600
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay. Jackie here in the studio has a legal

137
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,640
Speaker 1: question REGENEA Ward, and it's a good one. She wants

138
00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:49,280
Speaker 1: to know if an assault or battery charge on Miller

139
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 1: is appropriate if the victim was following him, And my

140
00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 1: answer would be yes. I mean, let's just take a

141
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,199
Speaker 1: street in Manhattan, for instance, people are this close together walking.

142
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really packed. It's not a crime or

143
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:15,440
Speaker 1: any sort of a torte to be walking closely behind someone. Also,

144
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,640
Speaker 1: she stopped walking behind him, and he got a distance away,

145
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 1: and then he turned around and charged at her. We

146
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:23,560
Speaker 1: just saw that on the video.

147
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:24,240
Speaker 3: Yes.

148
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,520
Speaker 10: In fact, because he was so far away, he had

149
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:33,599
Speaker 10: an opportunity to leave the scene altogether and avoid any confrontation.

150
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,559
Speaker 3: He took it upon himself.

151
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 10: Of course, he responded, probably from an emotional standpoint, turned

152
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 10: around and came back towards the woman, so that when

153
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,679
Speaker 10: he was on the other side of the parking lot,

154
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,679
Speaker 10: he had what we call an opportunity to leave. You know,

155
00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 10: don't go back into a dangerous situation.

156
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,120
Speaker 3: You walk away. Not saying that was a dangerous situation in.

157
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,880
Speaker 10: This case, but when you have you know, the opportunity

158
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:07,280
Speaker 10: to leave and avoid that confrontation. He certainly had the

159
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 10: ability to do that, seemed and appeared to already be

160
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,840
Speaker 10: doing that, but at some point he got emotional and

161
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,560
Speaker 10: turned around and came back and wanted to confront or

162
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,559
Speaker 10: talk about whatever was he thought that upset him.

163
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 3: That he heard someone.

164
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 1: Say, well, of course, John Paul Miller's attorney, Russell Long,

165
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 1: is calling his arrest quote outrageous. Listen.

166
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,200
Speaker 5: Miller's attorney, Russell Long is calling Miller's arrest outrageous and

167
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,920
Speaker 5: alleges that the women recording Miller make tying comments in

168
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 5: attempts to bait and coerce Miller. Long claims the city

169
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,840
Speaker 5: of Myrtle Beach has failed Miller and Solid Rock Church

170
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 5: by allowing protesters to stalk and harassment Miller and his

171
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 5: church goers, effectively killing the church. Long says Miller's arrest

172
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,280
Speaker 5: will only provide protesters with more bait and purpose and

173
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,280
Speaker 5: worries that they will not stop.

174
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:05,199
Speaker 1: I don't think the protesters are what is killing the church.

175
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:18,800
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace again joining me in All

176
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: Star panel straight out to Lauren Conlin joining us if

177
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 1: it's to get a reporter and co host of Prime

178
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,360
Speaker 1: Time Crime on YouTube. You can find her a Pop

179
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,200
Speaker 1: Crime TV. Lauren, thank you for being with us. I

180
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,440
Speaker 1: don't know if you're familiar with this, but sticks and

181
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,440
Speaker 1: stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

182
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 1: So let me understand this. His lawyer is claiming that

183
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:48,080
Speaker 1: women protesting taunted him with comments and that they're the

184
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:48,720
Speaker 1: bad guys.

185
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 8: Yes, apparently the women that are protesting for Micah are

186
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,320
Speaker 8: the bad guys in this situation. He said they baited him.

187
00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,360
Speaker 8: John Paul Miller is supposed to be a fan. You're

188
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,079
Speaker 8: in the community. He is a pastor. He is not

189
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,200
Speaker 8: supposed to be baited. And look, I understand that he

190
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,840
Speaker 8: is a human being. But I did find it so

191
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,240
Speaker 8: interesting Nancy when Ruffong said that the community of Myrtle

192
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:18,880
Speaker 8: Beach was failing John Paul Miller and failing his church members. Well, Nancy,

193
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,760
Speaker 8: what church are we talking about here? Are we talking

194
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,520
Speaker 8: about solid rock? Because as of last week, there is

195
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 8: no longer a solid rock web. Let's say, there's not

196
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 8: a social media So who has these protesters failed?

197
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,040
Speaker 12: Exactly?

198
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:39,120
Speaker 1: Back to Melissa Pfeiffer joining us, who videoed this the

199
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,320
Speaker 1: alleged assault on a protester, wess again, thank you for

200
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,920
Speaker 1: being with us. You hear that his lawyer is claiming

201
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,960
Speaker 1: that you and the other protesters are the problem, that

202
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,360
Speaker 1: you are harassing JP Miller, and that you are harassing

203
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,240
Speaker 1: the church members, and that you have quote killed the church.

204
00:12:58,360 --> 00:12:59,280
Speaker 1: What's your response.

205
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,280
Speaker 9: I think the FBI rating JP's house is what took

206
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 9: down his church. What do you mean by that We're

207
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 9: not harassing. I mean, they just it's not a good

208
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,120
Speaker 9: look to have your pastor be rated by the FBI.

209
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:24,640
Speaker 9: What have you done that? I mean, it's a concerning

210
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,520
Speaker 9: statement that he would say that we are to the

211
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,680
Speaker 9: reason for the church shutting down instead of saying it's

212
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:31,640
Speaker 9: his clients action.

213
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,559
Speaker 1: I'm very curious as to how you respond to his

214
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,679
Speaker 1: lawyer claiming that you are and the others other protesters

215
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 1: are harassing the church members. Yeah.

216
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,079
Speaker 9: They've been saying that since the beginning, that we are

217
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,960
Speaker 9: harassing the church members, and I guess that they think

218
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,440
Speaker 9: that because we chan't, that means we're harassing the church members.

219
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 9: I'm not harassing anybody. I'm exercising my First Amendment rights

220
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:08,200
Speaker 9: and I am protesting. There's never been violence from our

221
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:15,040
Speaker 9: side There's never been any any charges on any of

222
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,840
Speaker 9: the protesters. There's never been any violence from our side.

223
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,800
Speaker 9: But what there has been is violence from his church

224
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 9: members and violence from him.

225
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:31,040
Speaker 1: I've got a question, Melissa Pfeiffer, why are you protesting

226
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 1: you and the others? What do you hope to achieve.

227
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 13: For me?

228
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,200
Speaker 9: We all have our reasons for being out there. One

229
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,600
Speaker 9: form or another of my story.

230
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,640
Speaker 11: Has touched us each.

231
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:51,480
Speaker 9: We've all been through things. And I protest because something

232
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 9: is not right and I want the truth to come out,

233
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,760
Speaker 9: and I need for justice for my good to be served,

234
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,640
Speaker 9: and I need him to be held a acountable for

235
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 9: whatever it is. He is guilty of whatever whatever he

236
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 9: has done, they can be proven. He needs to be

237
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,520
Speaker 9: held accountable for that, and Micah deserves justice.

238
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,400
Speaker 4: I just want to let you know that I'm alive

239
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 4: and well, and I'm going through a lot and it's hard.

240
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,400
Speaker 14: Micah Miller files for divorce after discovering multiple affairs by

241
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,040
Speaker 14: her pastor husband. Micah says in the divorce filing that

242
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,720
Speaker 14: she was a faithful and dutiful wife and that she

243
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,160
Speaker 14: was quote devoted to their church and marriage.

244
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:43,920
Speaker 4: It's been kind of crazy, a couple past weeks, months years.

245
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 12: At Miller's arraignment, the victim's attorney asks the judge for

246
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,520
Speaker 12: a no contact order, but their quest is denied. Miller's attorney,

247
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 12: Russell long And sists Miller did not assault the protester

248
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,760
Speaker 12: and renews his call for help to stop the harassment

249
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,280
Speaker 12: and stalking of Miller and his parishioners. John Paul Miller

250
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,600
Speaker 12: secures a seven hundred and seventy six dollars bond for

251
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,480
Speaker 12: the misdemeanor assault charge and is released after spending the

252
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,280
Speaker 12: night in jail. Miller is due back in court on

253
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:12,640
Speaker 12: the charges next month.

254
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 1: I find it very interesting that the alleged victim in

255
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:20,320
Speaker 1: this case wanted a no contact order and didn't get one.

256
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:26,760
Speaker 1: Her tires were flatted, a tracking device is placed on

257
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 1: her vehicle. I know this because JP Miller apologized reportedly

258
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 1: for doing that. Her semi nude shot was taken without

259
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:46,120
Speaker 1: her knowledge and posted on some fetish website by JP Miller.

260
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if he took the photo, if she

261
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 1: knew he took the photo, but she certainly did not

262
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 1: know he was posting it on a fetish website, and

263
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 1: he also apologized for that. None of these were ever

264
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 1: pros acuted. So now you have one of the protesters,

265
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:09,479
Speaker 1: the alleged victim, asking for a no contact order to

266
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 1: be put on the Reverend JP Miller, but the judge refuses.

267
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 1: He's also been released on seven hundred and seventy six

268
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 1: dollars bond. I mean, Lauren Comin, they might as well

269
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 1: have just given him no bond for Pete's sake, just

270
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,880
Speaker 1: let him walk out or released unrecognisance.

271
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 8: Yes, I meant to point out earlier, Nancy, that this

272
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 8: is not his first mugshot. He was arrested back in

273
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,600
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety eight for assault and battery. It was later

274
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,639
Speaker 8: dismissed and he got community service, and then he was

275
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 8: arrested again for driving with a suspended license. And I

276
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 8: believe he spent sixty days in jail, you.

277
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,680
Speaker 1: Know, with the wife dead and a previous wife claiming

278
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 1: that she was abused in various manners. I don't know

279
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,320
Speaker 1: why the judge didn't give this alleged victim a no

280
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 1: contact order. But that said, we now know more about

281
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 1: the FBI raid on Miller's home.

282
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,920
Speaker 5: Pastor John Paul Miller isn't home when the FBI Evidence

283
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 5: Response team shows up to raid his South Carolina home.

284
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,160
Speaker 5: The FBI won't say what they're looking for in FBI

285
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 5: spokesman Kevin Wheeler tells USA Today the FBI is conducting

286
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 5: court authorized law enforcement activity, been due to the ongoing

287
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,520
Speaker 5: nature of the investigation, will be providing no for their

288
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 5: comments on the matter. The lawyer for pastor John Paul Miller,

289
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,119
Speaker 5: Russell Long, claims the FBI is on a fishing expedition.

290
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 5: There was no affidavit attached to the search warrant, therefore,

291
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,880
Speaker 5: I have no idea what it's in relation to. All

292
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 5: day long, members of the FBI's Evidence Response team go

293
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 5: in and out of the home carrying paper bags and

294
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,160
Speaker 5: other items from the home.

295
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 1: Is the church alive and well? Seemingly not? Joining me?

296
00:18:54,040 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: Doctor Marlena Raiba, a forensic psychologist who actually lives down

297
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,439
Speaker 1: the street from the church. What's happening at that church now? Doctor?

298
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,119
Speaker 15: At this time, it looks like the church is pretty

299
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 15: much vacant. I believe it was the last weekend, or

300
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 15: maybe two weekends ago, it appeared that they were moving

301
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,400
Speaker 15: a lot of the belongings out of the church, So

302
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,400
Speaker 15: it looks like they are sort of packing up and

303
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 15: maybe going to a different locations. There's also rumors that

304
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 15: they may be changing to a virtual sort of platform.

305
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,880
Speaker 15: So beyond that, I can't really speculate, but I can

306
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 15: tell you that every Sunday there are barricades around the church.

307
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 1: Part of that because.

308
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 15: Of the Justice for Mica protesters, and the police is

309
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,400
Speaker 15: out there. So, you know, it's also kind of interesting

310
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,959
Speaker 15: to me that the allegations from JP Miller would be

311
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 15: that the city of Myrtle Beach isn't doing enough to

312
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 15: kind of stop the harassment. It appears to me that,

313
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 15: you know, they're actually out there every weekend making sure

314
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 15: that the tensions don't escalate. And as he's proven to us,

315
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 15: you know, just with this recent arrest, we now know

316
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 15: that he's capable of sort of escalating things, potentially to

317
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 15: a physical level when challenged or questioned.

318
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 1: You know, I find all of this extremely probative, doctor Riba,

319
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: because many people do not believe that Micah committed suicide.

320
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: Others believe that she was driven to suicide by her husband,

321
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 1: the Reverend JP Miller, And there is precedent in our

322
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: country for prosecuting someone who drives another to suicide. You know,

323
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 1: we were talking briefly about the FBI raid, and that

324
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 1: would have been on Miller's home. It's never a good thing,

325
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: as I like to say, when you look out your

326
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: kitchen window and you see the FBI coming through your trash, Yeah,

327
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: you're in trouble. They did a full on raid on

328
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: his home. Regina Ward, the attorney from like his family,

329
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: saw part of that raid. What were they taking out, Regina? Oh?

330
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 10: Yeah, I was there, and they took out lots of

331
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 10: different things in terms of but mostly it was packaged, sealed, covered.

332
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,120
Speaker 3: In bags, small bags, big bags. There were boxes that

333
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 3: came out as well.

334
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 10: I saw them take out one thing that was not

335
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 10: covered was all in one computer from and put that

336
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 10: in the evidence truck. There were multiple things that they

337
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 10: brought out. At some point they closed the garage store too,

338
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 10: so they must have been filtering through.

339
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 3: That and taking out other evidents from there.

340
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 10: The day that John Paul Miller was released from jail

341
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 10: on bond, that just happened to be or the seventh

342
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 10: year anniversary their wedding anniversary.

343
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 3: So I thought to myself, Mine, what.

344
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 10: A wonderful gift he gave her walking out of there

345
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 10: with this mugshot all over the world.

346
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 16: I've had a lot of women that have reached out

347
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 16: to me about situations of abuse, and I just want

348
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 16: to tell you what a lot of people have told

349
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 16: me lately and reminded me because I think I forgot,

350
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 16: I knew, but for I pushed it in the back

351
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 16: of my head.

352
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 4: Just because of my situation.

353
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: But you are the.

354
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 4: Bride of Christ.

355
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: God hates divorce. But why?

356
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 2: According to everybody I've asked and the scriptures that I've found,

357
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 2: it's because it hurts people.

358
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: But does abuse hurt people?

359
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 4: How do you think God feels about that?

360
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 5: Micah Miller is born in which Kansas and grows up

361
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 5: as an adventurous, energetic, and giving person, always a hard worker.

362
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,719
Speaker 5: She gets to know her future husband when she is

363
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 5: just fifteen years old and he is her church youth leader.

364
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 17: Privately, she tells her sister she is afraid of John

365
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 17: Paul Miller, going so far as to tell her sister,

366
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 17: Sierra Francis, if I end up with a bullet in my.

367
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: Head, it was JP.

368
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 18: Attorney Regina Ward is also revealing that she received a

369
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 18: subpoena for a grand jury investigating John Paul Miller months

370
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 18: before the raid. Ward claims the documents she provided help

371
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 18: the FBI obtain the search warrant for John Paul Miller's home.

372
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,239
Speaker 18: Ward is confident and indictment is coming, and reports that

373
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 18: a new potential witness has stepped forward as a result

374
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 18: of the search.

375
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 5: Agents overseeing the investigation are asking for any potential witnesses

376
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 5: and victims to come forward. Anyone with information is asked

377
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 5: to call the FBI Myrtle Beach at eight four three

378
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 5: six two six seven four seven six, or use the

379
00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 5: FBI's online tip form.

380
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: All right, here we go a grand jury meeting calling

381
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: witnesses regarding an investigation of the Reverend J. P. Miller,

382
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: this after the suicide of his wife, Micah and joining

383
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: me Regina Ward, Michael Miller's family lawyer. What's it all about?

384
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: What are they investigating? Regina?

385
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 10: Well, the grand jury subpoena that I received asking for

386
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 10: me to appear.

387
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 3: I wanted to make this clear they were asking. It's

388
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 3: a subpoena, duch.

389
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 10: Just take what says that they want my documents and

390
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 10: the things that I have in my possession.

391
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: On page two it.

392
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 10: Lists multiple things that they want me to they wanted

393
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 10: me to produce relevant to certain situations and when I

394
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 10: would say certain types of crimes and my observation of it. However,

395
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 10: those are things that I will not and cannot reveal.

396
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,959
Speaker 10: I don't want to, you know, interfere, leopardize an investigation whatsoever.

397
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 10: But they, you know, came and took all of my

398
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 10: entire file, everything that Micah gave me and everything else

399
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 10: that I had put together, even myself. I also wanted

400
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 10: to point out you've asked, you know, we've talked about

401
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 10: his adultery. It is a crime in South Carolina to

402
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 10: commit adultery. It's actually a statute that carries up to

403
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 10: one year in jail, which is pretty interesting. But also

404
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 10: the other thing is we talked about the dissemination of

405
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 10: the photograph and South Carolina we're the only.

406
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 3: State that doesn't have a law against that.

407
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 10: Now, we do have a law against disseminating, ob seeing

408
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 10: photos and you know, things like that, and it does

409
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 10: have a penalty, but it's really geared toward the person

410
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 10: receiving it did not want to receive it. The law

411
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 10: that we have doesn't necessarily address where the photograph came from.

412
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 10: It only addresses, really like the receipt be someone who

413
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 10: sees it if they're offended by it.

414
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: So I don't want to pry into what was the

415
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: target of the subpoena. Duca's teacum, which is, you know,

416
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: typically we hear about subpoenas for you to show up

417
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: to court a duke's team is to bring documents or objects.

418
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: But let me ask you this, in which direction do

419
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: you believe the grand jury is going. Are they looking

420
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: for some type of fraud, Are they looking for transporting

421
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,959
Speaker 1: miners across state lines for the purposes of sex? Are

422
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: they looking for underage sex activity? Where do you think

423
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: they're headed? And is it a federal grand jury or

424
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: a local grand jury.

425
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 10: It was a federal grand jury, and it was a

426
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 10: subpoena to appear with an alternate to bring documents, So

427
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 10: I want to make that clear. And I was able

428
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 10: to provide you with the waivers so you don't have

429
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 10: to appear before the grand jury. I just submit all

430
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 10: of my documents and the investigator, excuse me, the agent

431
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 10: that's assigned to it, and the prosecutor. They're the ones

432
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 10: that present it to the grand jury in order to

433
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 10: get the search warrant.

434
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, in the midst of all of this, we

435
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: are learning that JP Miller reportedly already has a girlfriend.

436
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 18: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina is buzzing with rumors that Pastor

437
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 18: John Paul Miller is dating again and has possibly even remarried.

438
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 18: Miller was previously seen out to dinner with a member

439
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 18: of his congregation just four days after Micah Miller's suicide.

440
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 18: Less than twenty four hours after his home is rated

441
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 18: by the FBI, Miller is seen with the same woman

442
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 18: having lunch at McAllister's Delhi. This time, the pair cap

443
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 18: their distance and appear tense when entering and leaving the.

444
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 5: Restaurant, claiming he's still wearing the ring he wed Micah with.

445
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 5: Miller laughed off reporter's questions about his love life, saying

446
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 5: he's quote still dealing with Micah, still dealing with Micah.

447
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: His wife is dead, and he refers to that as

448
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: still dealing with Micah. You know. Joining me is a

449
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: well known a veteran law enforcement detective, owner and chief

450
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: investigator for Barry and Associates Investigation Services. Barry Hutchinson is

451
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: joining us and you can find him online at pibarrybar

452
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 1: Ry dot com. Barry, This thing stinks to High Heaven.

453
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: I mean, Barry this guy, Pastor Miller immediately has a

454
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: girlfriend after Micah's apparent suicide, and when asked about it,

455
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: he says, I'm still dealing with Micah. That's not a

456
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: good look. No, it's not a crime, but it sure

457
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: doesn't look good when you're in the middle of a

458
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: grand jury probe.

459
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 19: You know you made the comment of jumping out of

460
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 19: a frying pan into the fire. I want to add

461
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 19: something to you that not only are you doing that,

462
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 19: but you're doing it in gas soaped underwear.

463
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: You know, this guy.

464
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 19: He's uh, you know, he's as dirty as they can

465
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 19: get they I agree with you on thousand percent. The

466
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 19: guy he's dirty. I mean, there's something wrong with this

467
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 19: entire situation. I can't say what I actually want to

468
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 19: say about him, but it's not a good situation. I'll

469
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 19: just leave it at that.

470
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: Straight back out to Lauren Colin joining us. Lauren the

471
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: woman at issue, Okay, the one that he's having lunch with.

472
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: He's been spotted around town with her very soon after

473
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: Micah's suicide. Now question where exactly were they seen. Most recently,

474
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: it was.

475
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 8: At a restaurant a few days after Micah's death, that

476
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 8: they were first seen by the public, and then the

477
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 8: day that JP's house got rated by the FBI, they

478
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 8: were seen having lunch.

479
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: Let me be clear, we cannot prove in any way

480
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: that these two are having an affair. For all I

481
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: know they're bonding over their respective spouses committing suicide. We

482
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: don't know that. But what I do know is that

483
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: Solid Rock Church appears to be over listen.

484
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 5: It appears Pastor John Paul Miller and other staff members

485
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 5: are emptying Solid Rock Church, likely due to the scrutiny

486
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 5: of the organization is under while Miller faces accusations that

487
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 5: he drove his wife, Micah to suicide. Miller's Faith First

488
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 5: School is also cleared, with staff posting online that members

489
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 5: of the congregation are welcome to anything they want. Solid

490
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 5: Rock sign has also been taken down.

491
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

492
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 18: Author and Master Certified Professional coach Sarah McDougall says Micah

493
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 18: Miller did not kill herself, saying we don't really know

494
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 18: who pull the trigger and conceding that Micah Miller may

495
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 18: very well have. McDougall says, even if Micah Miller did

496
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 18: technically pull the trigger, Micah Miller did not kill herself.

497
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 18: McDougall says sworn testimony of family and friends confirms her

498
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,959
Speaker 18: non suicidal state of mind prior to her death, and

499
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 18: the fact that she had recently shipped belongings to Africa

500
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 18: to start fresh doing mission service overseas all point to

501
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 18: Micah Miller not being suicidal at the time she killed herself.

502
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: I am the only one not to blame. I'm the

503
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: only one who tried to help her, keep her alive

504
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: with me. She never commiss was I with me? She's happy,

505
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: healthy hole That last bit Miller speaking and claiming he's

506
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: the only one that kept her alive. That's our friends

507
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: at WPDEABC fifteen two. Doctor jan Gorniac joining us a

508
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: renowned medical examiner at the Clark County Office of Corner.

509
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: That's where she practiced most of her time. That's Vegas,

510
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: never a lack of business and the morgue there, doctor Gorniac.

511
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: As of now, her death has been ruled a suicide.

512
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: To prove that, you're going to have to look at

513
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: a body that had been submerged in water. So how

514
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: would you find, for instance, stippling gunshot residue burning around

515
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: the wound or gunshot residue. On the hand, how would

516
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: you determine that's a suicide if all of the gunshot

517
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: residue is gone, having been submerged in water, Doctor.

518
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 13: Gorniac well, in order to determine manner death, And that's

519
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 13: what we're talking about when we say suicide with something

520
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 13: toruled a suicide, we're talking about manner death. The manner

521
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 13: death comes from the circumstances. So it's not just the body,

522
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 13: it's the circumstances that we have to know. So you

523
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 13: said that you was in water, is the gun still there?

524
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 13: We also have to look into someone's medical history there

525
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 13: are any stressors. So for instance, besides the medical history,

526
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 13: when you say medical history, you think about diabetes or

527
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 13: high blood pressure, but we also have to talk about

528
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 13: mental health history. And then also we always have to

529
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 13: ask has there been any suicide ideations, any talk about suicide?

530
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 13: Have there been any attempts at suicide prior attempts? So

531
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 13: all of that comes into play. So we can look

532
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 13: at the body. Some of the stuff might be washed away,

533
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 13: like you said, the soot, but the skin's still going

534
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 13: to be burned if it's a close contact wound. Also

535
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 13: we can look at the bone. There might be foot

536
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 13: on the bone underneath, and that would say it's a

537
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 13: close contact wound. Also, but in order to call something

538
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 13: a suicide, it's more dependent on the circumstances than it

539
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 13: is the wound itself. But I mean, obviously we have

540
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 13: to make sure the wound matches. Now we have a

541
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 13: excuse me, a gunshot wound that is a distant gunshot

542
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 13: wound at the back of the head, most likely not

543
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 13: a suicide. So part of our job is to prove

544
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 13: or disprove the circumstances. So a gunshot wound, close contact,

545
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 13: right to left, left to right, whatever the direction is,

546
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 13: that's more consistent with a suicide. But that's in conjunction

547
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 13: with the circumstances.

548
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: Now interesting that in this case doctor Gorniac, her own

549
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: family says that she feared for her life, that she

550
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: would never make it through the divorce alive. Those are

551
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: MICA's words, not mine. We have president in the US

552
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: regarding those individuals that drive someone obviously probatively drive someone

553
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: to suicide, like Michelle.

554
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 5: Carter Conrad Royd then Michelle Carter connect over both being

555
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 5: diagnosed with depression, and when roy tells Carter he wants

556
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 5: to kill himself. She encourages him to do it, deciding

557
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 5: to use a generator in his truck and die by

558
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 5: carbon monoxide. Michelle Carter helps him decide on where to

559
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 5: arc his truck so he could die. As carbon monoxide

560
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 5: begins to fill his drug cabin. Conrad Roy the Third

561
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 5: gets out, texting Michelle Carter he'll do it another day.

562
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 5: Carter text to Roy, are challenging, telling him he overthinks things.

563
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 5: Carter texts, Roy, you just said you were gonna do

564
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 5: it tonight and now you're saying eventually. Carter tells Roy

565
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 5: to get back in the truck. Authorities discovered the body

566
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 5: of Conrad Roy the Third in his pickup truck parked

567
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 5: outside of kmart at Fairhaven, Massachusetts, the next day. He

568
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 5: was eighteen.

569
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: She was prosecuted for driving her very young and inexperienced

570
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: boyfriend to suicide. If you had seen the text that

571
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: she sent him, just do it. What are you waiting for?

572
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: Are you going to do it? Well? He did it

573
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 1: and now he's dead and she went to jail. Mimi

574
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: argue that Pastor Miller drove his wife to suicide.

575
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 5: Listen Michael Miller's best friend remembers being dragged into one

576
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 5: of many marital fights instigated by loving husband Pastor John

577
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 5: Paul Miller. Charlotte Corn binds herself in a group tanks

578
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 5: with the couple after Miller presses Micah on an odd question.

579
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: Okay, baiting, baiting her, but this is what happened. Talk

580
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: about a head game. Listen.

581
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 5: Miller continues on this tirade, spiraling into a huge fight.

582
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 5: Michah leaves to cool off, and that's when Miller threatens

583
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 5: to follow Michah to her sister's home, well armed, and

584
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 5: donate all of Michaeh's belongings if she doesn't return home immediately.

585
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand something in Regina Ward, this is

586
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: just one of the many mind games. Pastor Miller reportedly,

587
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure he would deny all of this if he

588
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 1: were to join us, which he declined. Regina Ward baiting her,

589
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: and then he turned it around on her.

590
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 10: Yes, that's a classic tactic control, a classic tactic.

591
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 3: Of a control course of control. Person.

592
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 10: They're always baiting, pushing, pushing tribed ideas in your head

593
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 10: to make you feel crazy, to get you to come

594
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 10: in and to their little snare so then they can

595
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 10: whip it around on you.

596
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 3: It's a coercial control tactic.

597
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 10: She's quite frequently and based on the evidence that I

598
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 10: have that Michaeh left with me, in the history of

599
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 10: mister Miller, this was nothing unusual. Was it the first

600
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 10: time and probably wasn't the last time, And I wouldn't

601
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 10: be surprised that he used the same type of tactics

602
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 10: on her on.

603
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 3: The day that she passed.

604
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 14: After Micah's tires have been slashed and a GPS tracker

605
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 14: is removed from her car, she gets an apology email

606
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 14: from John Paul Miller. In the apology email, pastor John

607
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 14: Paul Miller tells his estranged wife, quote, when someone hurts me,

608
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 14: I try to hurt them back rather than forgive. He

609
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 14: goes on to say, quote instead of forgiving you, I

610
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 14: just attack and try to cause pain.

611
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: A GPS tracker placed on her car, her tires slashed.

612
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: Was she driven to commit suicide? And that's not all? Listen.

613
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 17: Micah contacted police after her estrange husband posted an indecent

614
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 17: photo of her on a Facebook group called Big Boobs

615
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 17: and Nice Curves. Police told Micah since the photo was

616
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 17: posted anonymously. There was nothing they could do. John Paul

617
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 17: Miller apologized to Micah via email, telling her I'm sorry

618
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 17: for putting a picture of you on the internet. He added,

619
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 17: I just wanted to try and hurt you. He also

620
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 17: included it was evil of me to do that.

621
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: Hey know. Doctor Marlena Raba is with US forensic psychologist

622
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: and research consultant. Doctor Marlena part of part of the

623
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 1: whole series of assaults in the sense of slashing tires,

624
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: putting a track, or posting her semi nude on some

625
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: fetish website is that it's someone that you trust and

626
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: that you love, which in my mind makes it so

627
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: much worse. Yep, you're absolutely correct.

628
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 15: And I think when you're thinking about someone with these

629
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 15: sort of personality characteristics that are that do align sort

630
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 15: of with narcissism and kind of this very ego centric

631
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 15: way of being, right, there's this need of control. They

632
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 15: tend to disregard the feelings of others. They're insensitive to

633
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 15: the memory of Mica and so you know, even some

634
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 15: of the behaviors that we saw in in in the church, right,

635
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 15: a lot of that seems to mimic some of those behaviors,

636
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 15: and you're right in that it is so much worse

637
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 15: because that person is sort of taking that person's on,

638
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 15: that individual's vulnerabilities and exploiting them.

639
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: Melissa five for joining us who has been outside the

640
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 1: church protesting? Melissa, what exactly about all of this makes

641
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: you feel you need to go out and protest.

642
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 9: Everything, everything that Micah has said?

643
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 11: We all of us that are out there processing.

644
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 9: We believe Micah, and she's not here anymore. And I

645
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 9: believe that if we stay quiet, and I believe that

646
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 9: this will will be washed away. It needs attention. It

647
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 9: can't just we can't play bystander effect.

648
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: We know that a grand jury is meeting and the

649
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: target of that grand jury is John Paul Miller. We

650
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: also know that Micah's death has been ruled a suicide.

651
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: What exactly is going on behind those grand jury walls,

652
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: secret proceedings? Is this arrest for simple as salt and

653
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: battery just the beginning? We wait as just as simples,

654
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: And let me remind everyone in our country, you are innocent,

655
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: absolutely innocent, until you are proven guilty beyond a reasonable

656
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: doubt in a court of law. As of right now,

657
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: Miller is innocent in the eyes of the law. Let's

658
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 1: just see what happens. Thank you to our guests for

659
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: being with us, but especially to you for being with us.

660
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,