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Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy.

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Speaker 2: I just actually wrote an example in a book recently

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Speaker 2: of this woman who her husband works in a hospital

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Speaker 2: and she has a huge fear of contamination and germs,

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Speaker 2: so like when every time he walks in the house,

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Speaker 2: she has to wash her hands, or like she has

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Speaker 2: a safe places in their house that he is not

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Speaker 2: allowed to go into that are just for her because

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Speaker 2: she knows that their quote not contaminated.

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Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't

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Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift.

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Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point

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Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.

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Speaker 2: If you can die before you die, then you can

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Speaker 2: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was insane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't know what to do because there

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Speaker 2: was no Internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I

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Speaker 2: feel like everything is hard.

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Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a human birth

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Speaker 1: and a licensed therapist. Second, and right now I'm inviting

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Speaker 1: you into conversations that I hope encourage you to become

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Speaker 1: more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, and the

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Speaker 1: world around you welcome to You Need Therapy. Hi guys,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to a new episode of You Need Therapy Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My name is Kat. I am the host, and quick

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Speaker 1: reminder before we get into the episode that although I

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Speaker 1: am a therapist and you actually have two therapists here today,

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Speaker 1: this podcast does not serve as a replacement or substitute

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Speaker 1: for any actual mental health services, but we always hope

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Speaker 1: that it can help you in some way wherever you

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Speaker 1: are now. This week, I thought it would be a

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Speaker 1: really good time to talk about something that we haven't

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Speaker 1: actually talked about that I can remember really at all

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Speaker 1: on this podcast. And one of the reasons I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about it is because of that, and also

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Speaker 1: it's one of the things that I see over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again talked about on social media TikTok, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: all of that, and it's one of the things that

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Speaker 1: we myself and our guest, and I think probably a

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Speaker 1: lot of therapists or people that work in mental health.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the things that we see a lot

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Speaker 1: of people coming in with and questioning and wondering and

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Speaker 1: self diagnosing and all of that, which I do think

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Speaker 1: is wonderful in one sense. I am actually so grateful,

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Speaker 1: and it's part of why this podcast even exists, that

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Speaker 1: regular humans can just be looking on social media and

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Speaker 1: discover something and learn about something that they identify with,

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Speaker 1: and it helps them feel less alone and helps them

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Speaker 1: feel more understood. And I wanted to talk about it

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Speaker 1: today because I wanted to put a little bit more

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Speaker 1: context to it and just give some more information that

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Speaker 1: can help the people out there that are looking and

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Speaker 1: seeing things that they identify with and seeing if that's

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Speaker 1: really something identify with or if it's just parts of that,

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Speaker 1: and just give you some more information. And my hope

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Speaker 1: is always that you take this information, you process it

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Speaker 1: with somebody on your own that can help you make

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Speaker 1: sense of it in your own life. So I have

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Speaker 1: one of the Three Courts Therapy therapists here with me today,

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Speaker 1: and Three Court Therapy is my practice that I have

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Speaker 1: here in Nashville. Her name is Josie, and so welcome

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Speaker 1: Josie to you Need Therapy again for I think the

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Speaker 1: third time.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Just happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: Josie has been here a couple times before on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: once talking about eating disorders, one when we talked about

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Speaker 1: body dysmorphia, and then we talked about like our first

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Speaker 1: experiences in therapy, Yes, yeah, and me and Julia had

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Speaker 1: very different experiences. So Josie sees a lot of clients

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Speaker 1: that have OCD and are experiencing symptoms from it, and

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Speaker 1: so I wanted her to come on and just talk

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Speaker 1: about the basics of what it is. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those things that I see a

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Speaker 1: lot of self diagnosis, which is necessarily not a bad thing.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy that people are seeing stuff on the internet

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Speaker 1: and feeling understood or feeling like they have an answer

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Speaker 1: to something. But I think also sometimes we do that

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Speaker 1: thing where we convince ourselves that we have things like

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Speaker 1: when I mean, I've talked about this before on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: When I took my DSM class, I was diagnosing myself

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Speaker 1: with every single disorder that we went through because I

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Speaker 1: was seeing everything through the context of my own life

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Speaker 1: and not looking at the specifics of it. And so

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Speaker 1: we do that when we see stuff on social media

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Speaker 1: where we're like, oh, I do that, I do that,

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Speaker 1: I do that, I have this thing now and now

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Speaker 1: I have to fix it. And that could be true.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that that's not true for you. It

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Speaker 1: also might not always be true, and we might be

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Speaker 1: exaggerating things or we might be minimizing things that are

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Speaker 1: more important. So we're going to talk about OCD, and

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Speaker 1: I want to start with did you mean to get

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Speaker 1: into this, like, did you want to work with OCD

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Speaker 1: when you became a therapist?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not, Okay, I fell into it because I came

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Speaker 2: into therapy or as a therapist, like wanting to work

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Speaker 2: with eating disorders, and it really popped up. I feel

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Speaker 2: like half of my eating disorder clients have OCD because

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Speaker 2: there's that perfectionism there and it just started to pop

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Speaker 2: up with my clients before I even came to Three Cords,

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Speaker 2: and I realized I had to figure out how to

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Speaker 2: work with it. So I started seeking supervision for it,

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Speaker 2: I started doing trainings for it, and I grew to

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Speaker 2: really like it. Now I want to see clients that

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Speaker 2: are just even coming for OCD, and I really I

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Speaker 2: think it's really interesting to work with kind of just

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Speaker 2: fell in my lap accidentally.

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Speaker 1: Which I think is a good point for you to

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Speaker 1: say too, where you sought out supervision and trainings on that,

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Speaker 1: because we've talked about before on the podcast. We go

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Speaker 1: through a very I mean you have a different degree

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Speaker 1: than me, but any trained therapist goes through a very

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Speaker 1: i would say, more general training of how to be

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Speaker 1: a therapist. And then when you think about the populations

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Speaker 1: you want to work with, that is is done by

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Speaker 1: you going out and working with those populations and seeking

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Speaker 1: the training and all of that. And so I think

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Speaker 1: it's important that you noted like I didn't mean to

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Speaker 1: do this, but it was involved in the population I

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Speaker 1: was with, and so I took the extra effort to

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Speaker 1: go and make sure I was competent in this area.

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Speaker 2: Y Basically, I mean we were for out or we're

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Speaker 2: like all right, I guess we're figuring this out now. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I'm gonna become trained in here we go, let's

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Speaker 2: do this.

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Speaker 1: We're either going to figure that out before or we're

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Speaker 1: going to figure out in the middle. YEP. Can you

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Speaker 1: give us like an overview, like what is obsessive compulsive disorder?

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Speaker 1: What does entail? What are the symptoms? How do you

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Speaker 1: diagnose it? Just give us like the rundown.

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Speaker 2: So with obsessive compulsive disorder, we have these obsessions. So

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Speaker 2: these thoughts and those are unwanted thoughts that pop into

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Speaker 2: your head they're unrealistic, they cause a lot of anxiety,

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Speaker 2: and they are usually long lasting. And then we have

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Speaker 2: the compulsions, and those are thoughts or actions that you

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Speaker 2: complete for immediate and often temporary, very relief from the

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Speaker 2: anxiety you have due to that obsessive thought. So like,

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Speaker 2: I feel like the classic example is that people kind

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Speaker 2: of think of OCD as like if I don't check

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Speaker 2: the stove three times, then my house is going to

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Speaker 2: catch on fire, or if I don't vacuum my rug

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Speaker 2: twice a day, that I'm gonna feel really uncomfortable in

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Speaker 2: my room isn't going to feel right. But there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of other ways that OCD shows up with

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Speaker 2: clients as well.

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Speaker 1: You said the compulsion can be a thought. Yeah, can

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Speaker 1: you explain that.

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Speaker 2: I actually really love talking about this because I have

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Speaker 2: several clients who had no idea that they had OCD,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, wait, wait, wait a minute, what did

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Speaker 2: you just use why? And it is like life changing

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Speaker 2: to be able to like put a name to something

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Speaker 2: that you've never understood and you just have thought like

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Speaker 2: I'm weird, I'm different, I'm the problem, and said to

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Speaker 2: be like no, no, no, this is your brain chemistry. This

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Speaker 2: is OCD, and this is how we can learn to

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Speaker 2: cope with that or get medication for it, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: I'll give like a few examples, so I'll kind of

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Speaker 2: like tie this into something that you and I've already

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Speaker 2: talked about, like I wanted to mention today, but having

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Speaker 2: sexual thoughts is so common, and there's so much stigma

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Speaker 2: around it, so that's like a huge one that people

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Speaker 2: don't talk about. So an example, this is also really

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Speaker 2: common part of that. An example would be like a

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Speaker 2: teenager having a thought about her parents having sex and

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Speaker 2: it pops into her head once and then she's like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, what was that thought? That was really scary?

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Speaker 2: And like our body feels that it's really scary. And

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Speaker 2: then because it's happened once and we're freaking out about it,

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Speaker 2: then it keeps popping up and it keeps happening, so

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Speaker 2: like we have this thought, and then eventually that can

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Speaker 2: turn into if OCD is there, if it's in your genes,

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Speaker 2: if it's in your brain chemistry, or just in your environment,

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Speaker 2: that can turn into having the compoul thought of, for example,

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Speaker 2: harming myself. So not like physically doing self harm, but

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Speaker 2: because I feel so guilty and so uncomfortable that I'm

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Speaker 2: having that thought. It really helps me to visualize just

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Speaker 2: visualize self harming myself. I gause a response, yes, because

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Speaker 2: that relieves some of the guilt that I just had

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Speaker 2: that sexual thought about my parents.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I bet that's really helpful for people to

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Speaker 1: hear you say that this is a common thing, and

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Speaker 1: that's important that you mentioned too before you said that.

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Speaker 1: I kind of got this sense when I went to school.

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Speaker 1: It's like diagnosing is this like big scary, like slap

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Speaker 1: on the wrist, almost like you have this thing and

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Speaker 1: it's almost like there's morality I think sometimes put onto it,

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Speaker 1: when in reality I find there to be so much

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Speaker 1: freedom in diagnoses like this, and some people but like

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Speaker 1: I don't want to label clients or I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be and I get some of those arguments to

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Speaker 1: an extent, And I also think that's like a story.

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Speaker 1: There's story is we make up about the labels and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. And what I see so often is

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Speaker 1: when I can share with somebody like, oh, this isn't

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Speaker 1: a book and a lot of people have this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the reason that we can name this is because you're

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Speaker 1: not alone. And also because we can name this, that

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Speaker 1: means we know some stuff about it, which means there

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Speaker 1: might be some You don't have to live this way

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Speaker 1: because this isn't you. This isn't there's something specifically wrong

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Speaker 1: with you, and you're stuck this way and you're bad.

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Speaker 1: This is something that a lot of people experience, and

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Speaker 1: that there is a framework for us to understand and

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Speaker 1: work with it. So I think that's very important that

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Speaker 1: you said that. And I also think it's important that

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Speaker 1: you're not naming even the like most like we can

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Speaker 1: talk about those too, but the most talked about examples.

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Speaker 1: It's also you're naming one of the most shame field examples.

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Speaker 1: And if more people were sharing this, it's like if

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Speaker 1: nobody knew that anybody were underwear, then I think we'd

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Speaker 1: all be like, you know, shameful that we're wearing underwear.

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Speaker 1: We all know that people wear underwear. So I'm not like, ooh, gross,

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Speaker 1: you're wearing a bra. I'm like, you're probably wearing you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: That's a weird example that came in my head.

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Speaker 3: I was just listening to an episode of The Giggly

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Speaker 3: Squad and they were talking about how their partners don't

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Speaker 3: wear underwear. I know, which is that's like, we assume

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Speaker 3: people wear underwear, so we think it's weird people don't

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Speaker 3: like that's true. I think that that, But then they

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Speaker 3: both of their partners didn't like, maybe it's not that uncommon.

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Speaker 1: So that's where that came from, I think. But I

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Speaker 1: like the fact that, like, the more we're sharing, you're

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Speaker 1: talking about these examples that nobody's talking about. Well, why

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Speaker 1: don't we talk about those examples? Because if you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this and you relate to that, then you have

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Speaker 1: this automatic experience of oh so if I tell this

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Speaker 1: to my therapist, they won't be like, oh, I've never

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Speaker 1: worked with this before. This seems it's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's something that happens.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be able to connect to people through

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Speaker 2: this and be like I want someone to be listening

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Speaker 2: and be like, oh shit, that's me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah WHOA.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea and know that there are ways

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Speaker 2: to cope with it, and like, I've had a client

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Speaker 2: that you know, felt something similar to that, like felt

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Speaker 2: so scared to share it with me, and eventually she

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Speaker 2: did and I was like, wait a minute, you're on

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Speaker 2: psychotropic medication, but you're not on one that specifically targets OCD,

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Speaker 2: like that could completely change your life. So we ended

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Speaker 2: up talking to her psychiatrists and got in a different

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Speaker 2: medication that really helped, Like something as simple as that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then she's in therapy with me and we're working

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Speaker 2: on coping skills. It can be life changing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So you told us that OCD is something

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Speaker 1: that somebody's experiencing obsessions and then compulsions to cope with

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Speaker 1: those obsessions. Is there anything else to that general definition

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Speaker 1: that you would add? You told us that OCD is

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Speaker 1: something that somebody's experiencing obsessions and then compulsions to cope

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Speaker 1: with those obsessions. Is there anything else to that general

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Speaker 1: definition that you would add?

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Speaker 2: Not really like that's kind of the gist of it.

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Speaker 2: I've really found that obsessions, those like initial thoughts really connect.

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Speaker 1: With like our fears.

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Speaker 2: So, like another really common one that is in textbooks

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Speaker 2: and I've done some research on is when you're in

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Speaker 2: a car and you're like going through a crosswalk or

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Speaker 2: going through a red light, very common to have the

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Speaker 2: thought did I just hit someone? Even though you did

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Speaker 2: not feel anything in the like, there's no reason, no

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Speaker 2: like quote like logical reason for you to think that.

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Speaker 2: It's your OCD brain saying, wait, did you just hit someone?

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Speaker 2: Did you just hit someone in through car? Because that

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Speaker 2: like taps into a fear that they have, and then

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Speaker 2: the compulsion to that thought might be I have to

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Speaker 2: look back three times or two times.

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Speaker 1: After drive back around. Okay, So actually I went to

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Speaker 1: ask this because this is I think where a lot

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Speaker 1: of the like self diagnosing that gets a little bit

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Speaker 1: out of left field, or maybe not left field, just overdone,

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Speaker 1: is when I have intrusive thoughts. Because you hear that

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Speaker 1: all the time. I feel like intrusive thought is like

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Speaker 1: a buzzword right now, and.

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Speaker 2: It's like like what I listened to my intrusive thought.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like a meme. And we all have

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Speaker 1: well I won't say we all. Most of us have

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Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts. That's just like a thought that we don't

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Speaker 1: want to have, that we didn't like mean to have.

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Speaker 1: That's like a very normal experience. And I have a

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Speaker 1: common intrusive thought where I'll be like at a grocery

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Speaker 1: store or something and there'll be a display. Specifically, it

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Speaker 1: happens when there's like a big display of like cans

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Speaker 1: or something that like would just like topple over. And

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Speaker 1: I have these thoughts of like either if I'm by myself,

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Speaker 1: I'll be like, well, what if I just jumped into

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Speaker 1: it or something like that, like knocked one over, Like

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Speaker 1: what if I just did that? And then if I'm

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Speaker 1: with somebody, I'll like be like what if I just

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Speaker 1: pushed him into the displa and then ran away? Like

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Speaker 1: I have that thought, I've never done it, and I've

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I've I've done anything to essentially

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Speaker 1: cope with that. I just think about it, like what

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Speaker 1: is the difference between that and somebody who has OCD?

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Speaker 2: That would have to be tied with a compulsion. So

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Speaker 2: like the act of like checking it two times to

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Speaker 2: make sure all the cans are still in order, that

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Speaker 2: you didn't actually do it or like actually run into it,

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Speaker 2: or it could be like pacing back and forth three times.

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Speaker 2: If that could be anything, Yes, it could seriously be anything.

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Speaker 2: It could be like a random coping skill that you

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Speaker 2: already use. I mean a common one is pacing back

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Speaker 2: and forth a certain amount of time, or like if

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Speaker 2: you're in the grocery store and there are tiles on

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Speaker 2: the ground, that could be like hopping three tiles, two tiles,

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Speaker 2: one tile. I don't care what it is, counting checking, Okay,

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Speaker 2: so that's important.

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Speaker 1: You're your compulsion does not have to be directly tied

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Speaker 1: to the thought. So like, so if the compulsion is

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Speaker 1: washing my hands, it's not always tied to like your

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Speaker 1: hands being dirty. That compulsion can be tied to any

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Speaker 1: thought that you might be having.

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Speaker 2: Yes, But a lot of time with hand washing, it

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Speaker 2: is because a lot of time that has to do

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Speaker 2: with contamination and germs and fear of germs.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it doesn't even have to be like germs on

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Speaker 1: your hand. It can be like upstairs might I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Like they don't have to be directly related in general.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times they probably are. It makes sense

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Speaker 1: if they are. But my like compulsion to kind of

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Speaker 1: calm my anxiety can be also to get my mind

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Speaker 1: away from something versus just like fixing that thing, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I just with the hand washing. I just

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Speaker 2: actually write an example in a book recently of this

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Speaker 2: woman who her husband works in a hospital and she

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Speaker 2: has a huge fear of contamination and germs. So like

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Speaker 2: when every time he walks in house she has to

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Speaker 2: wash her hands, or like she has safe places in

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Speaker 2: their house that he is not allowed to go into

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Speaker 2: that are just for her because she knows that their

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Speaker 2: quote not contaminated.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, that makes sense. Okay, so that's where you

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Speaker 1: can have intrusive thoughts, But it doesn't mean we need

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Speaker 1: to diagnose ourselves with OCD. Now, that might mean there's

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Speaker 1: some type of other anxiety possibly anxiety disorder attached to

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Speaker 1: those thoughts. Yeah, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you

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Speaker 1: then have OCD. And I think that's a huge distinction.

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Speaker 1: That is important because people hear parts of the disorder

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Speaker 1: and they grab onto it. But to be diagnosed with this,

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Speaker 1: you have to actually have all of the parts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, DSM diagnosis, you have to have both. An obsession

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Speaker 2: could be like I don't feel right, or like I

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Speaker 2: don't feel comfortable if my curtain isn't open to this

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Speaker 2: certain point, like it just doesn't feel right, like it

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Speaker 2: doesn't feel comfortable. I cannot go throughout my day unless

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Speaker 2: my curtain is at this certain point in my room,

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Speaker 2: or I wake up, I cannot get through my day,

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Speaker 2: or my day is so uncomfortable if I don't wake

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Speaker 2: up and turn on my left light and then my

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Speaker 2: right light exactly in that order, like I will be

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Speaker 2: worried about all day long.

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Speaker 1: Okay, talk about that. This with eating disorders and body

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Speaker 1: image though, yeah, body checking, yes, okay, So people might

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Speaker 1: not know what that means.

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Speaker 2: That is looking in the mirror and looking at your body.

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Speaker 1: So it could be like touching parts of your body

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Speaker 1: or you know which collarbones waste, like just putting your

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Speaker 1: hand around your wrist and making sure like your fingers

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Speaker 1: still aren't meeting at the same spot that they did before.

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Speaker 2: Making sure your collarbones are still sticking out or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Like that feeling is that you need to feel better,

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Speaker 2: but the thought is like a fear or obsessive thought.

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Speaker 2: Could be what if I gained fifteen pounds while I

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Speaker 2: was sleeping last night and then we wake up, and

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Speaker 2: the compulsion could be touching your collarbone, looking in the mirror,

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Speaker 2: making sure we did not gain fifty pounds. Well, obviously

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Speaker 2: a big one is stepping on scale. That's going to

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Speaker 2: be a huge compulsion. That's like provide that temporary relief

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Speaker 2: from that anxiety of that thought of I'd gained fifteen pounds,

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Speaker 2: why I slept last night.

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Speaker 1: Well, and are those obsessive thoughts usually like nothing happens

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Speaker 1: to create them, Like it's oh yeah, they're so they're

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Speaker 1: just like in my sleep versus like or could it

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Speaker 1: be like I ate lunch and now I think that

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Speaker 1: I gained fifteen pounds. Okay, definitely be that, which would

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Speaker 1: be an exaggeration because that's not going to hap.

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Speaker 2: That's not really that. The thing is like with these thoughts,

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Speaker 2: they are not realistic.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

382
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Speaker 2: Our brain's telling us that it's possible, but logically it

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Speaker 2: is not possible.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now what do you do because I hear you

385
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Speaker 1: saying there's like hope and it's excited and I've even

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Speaker 1: said exciting named this because then there's a way out

387
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Speaker 1: of it. What do you do with somebody because you

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Speaker 1: can't just tell somebody stop thinking that.

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Speaker 2: Nope, that's not gonna happen. Number one, like it we

390
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Speaker 2: kind of like we're talking about it is so helpful

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Speaker 2: to normalize it and give education around it. Like that's

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Speaker 2: huge with my clients. I mean like, oh my gosh,

393
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Speaker 2: like this is my brain and we can figure out

394
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Speaker 2: ways to work with this. Number two, see a therapist

395
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Speaker 2: and I can give you some examples of like what

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Speaker 2: I do with clients see a therapist. Also, like I'm

397
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Speaker 2: a huge proponent of medication for OCD, and I've seen

398
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Speaker 2: it make a huge difference with people see a therapists first.

399
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Speaker 2: But also I think that's can be eventually a piece

400
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Speaker 2: of it. But like something I do with clients is

401
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Speaker 2: this tactic of delaying, limiting or changing the compulsion. So

402
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 2: ooh yeah, I love it. So it's it's a response prevention.

403
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Speaker 2: So like we have this response is compulsion, and we're

404
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Speaker 2: trying to prevent that from happening. So I like to

405
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Speaker 2: use this example of clients. If I'm I don't have SCD,

406
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Speaker 2: but if I didn't, and I'm in the gym and

407
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Speaker 2: I work out every morning before I go to work,

408
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Speaker 2: and I have this thought that if I do not

409
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Speaker 2: do a plank for one minute after my workout, I

410
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Speaker 2: am going to get in a car crash on the

411
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Speaker 2: way home. I've seen this with a client. I mean

412
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Speaker 2: I've seen this with like something of this nature. I'm like,

413
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Speaker 2: you know, making it a little sound a little different, but.

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Speaker 1: But also I have some compassion for the fact that

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Speaker 1: like I'm looking at you, like, how could that have

416
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Speaker 1: to do with you beating. Yeah. Also, but like she

417
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Speaker 1: was like what, yeah, but I'm naming that face because

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Speaker 1: as crazy as that might sound to somebody, for the

419
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Speaker 1: person who has is having that thought, that does feel

420
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Speaker 1: so true.

421
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Speaker 2: It feels so real and it's your like your brain.

422
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Speaker 1: Yeah it is not you're doing that on purpose.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And no one's like, oh I want to have OCD, right,

424
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Speaker 2: no one chooses it. It is and it's so genetic

425
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Speaker 2: that in substance use or two of the most genetic disorders,

426
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Speaker 2: and no one is choosing this, but it feels so real.

427
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Speaker 2: So a way that I work with clients to cope

428
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Speaker 2: with that is like, if we're using this example is

429
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Speaker 2: can we limit the amount of time we do that plank?

430
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Speaker 2: So if every time I leave it is specifically one minute,

431
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Speaker 2: can I do it for fifty eight seconds? Can I

432
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Speaker 2: do it for fifty seven seconds? Can I do it

433
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Speaker 2: for fifty seconds?

434
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Speaker 1: Like Okay, that's crazy because my first thought was thirty seconds,

435
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Speaker 1: and you're like, no, we're just gonna take two seconds off.

436
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 2: We're just gonna like do it scaffold back. We could

437
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: do fifteen nine second fifty nine seconds.

438
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: I don't care.

439
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: Starting really really tiny and doing these really small steps.

440
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: Also delaying when we do the plank. So if every

441
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: time the workout ends, I have to get into my

442
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: plank immediately, what if we waited ten seconds until we

443
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 2: do it.

444
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 1: What if we go say hey to a.

445
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: Friend and then do it. What if we waited two

446
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 2: seconds I don't care and then did the plank? Delaying

447
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: doing that compulsion Also changing is a good one too,

448
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 2: of like, okay, so I typically do a plank for

449
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 2: a minute, what if I did crunches for a minute.

450
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: What if I did another some sort of app exercises

451
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: exercise for a minute. It's basically just like we've got

452
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 2: to get out of this strict I have to do

453
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: this or something that's going to happen. Kind of looks

454
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 2: like a game to me with clients, I'm like, how

455
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 2: can we mess with this a little bit?

456
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 1: Well? And the way, yeah, the way you're describing it too,

457
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: is that you're which the term is really like scaffolding.

458
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: It like doing very very small, manageable shifts and change changes,

459
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: versus like you might not start doing the crunches until

460
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: somebody has gone to that fifty eight seconds. It's like, okay,

461
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: we did this, So now let's do this because this

462
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: seems like a little bit bigger of a change, and

463
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: that might feel for somebody more manageable and doable. And

464
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times when we ourselves are

465
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: thinking outside of the context of working with a therapist,

466
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: and I even do this with myself as a human being.

467
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: When I want to change something, it's like, oh, I'm

468
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: going to change this one hundred percent, Like I'm going

469
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: from black to white. I'm completely shifting this. It's it's

470
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: like when people want to like start like morning routines

471
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: or nighttime routines, it's like, I'm going to get it

472
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 1: twenty step skincare routine, It's like, well, why don't you

473
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: just like wash your face once? Or when they want

474
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: to have this, I'm gonna wake up two hours early,

475
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have my coffee, I'm gonna journal that, I'm

476
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: gonna go to the gym. Then i'm gonna go and

477
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: walk the I'm gonna call my mom, then i'm gonna

478
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: take a shower, then i'm gonna exfoliate, then i'm gonna

479
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: get ready for work. And then I'm like, first of all,

480
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: nobody's doing that. Second, well, why don't you just like

481
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: start sitting down when you drink your coffee, like, start

482
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: with something very small before you completely change everything about

483
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: how you're doing things, because the huge change might not

484
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: even be necessary. And also we're not likely to make

485
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: those changes if it's that big. So if you told me, well,

486
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: I can speak for myself. When I was in my

487
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: own exercise addiction, if you told me, like, well, instead

488
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: of running, why don't you do yoga for an hour?

489
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: Same time but like here to yoga, I'd be like, heck, no,

490
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. But if you told me instead

491
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: of running for an hour instead of I think I

492
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: did more like it was the lengths, like the distance,

493
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: So instead of running for six miles, why don't you

494
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: do five point nine? That would have felt like a

495
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: big deal because part of my stuff is like I

496
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: had to make all of the numbers align, and so

497
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 1: you saying that would have been like, Okay, well that's

498
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: challenging enough, so let me do that and see if

499
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: anything else changes about my day, And nothing would probably change,

500
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: And so then I'm like, Okay, now I could probably

501
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: go down a little bit more. And now I can

502
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: go down a little bit more. Now this idea of

503
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: doing a different type of workout sounds more manageable, So

504
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: I really like that. And it also ties to not

505
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: everybody who has behaviors like this is going to be

506
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 1: diagnosed with OCD, and I think that's why there's two

507
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: parts in this. Not everybody who has behaviors like this

508
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: is going to be diagnosed with OCD, and I think

509
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: that's why there's two part in this. This kind of

510
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: conversation can be helpful for anybody. I don't specifically have OCD,

511
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: but what you're talking about can be helpful and parts

512
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: of my everyday life. Yes, I'm sure that doesn't mean

513
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: I have this diagnosable disorder that is interrupting the quality

514
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: of my life. Yes, And I think that's key part,

515
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: a huge part in most mental health disorders, where I

516
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: might experience some of the symptoms from time to time

517
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: that are in these different disorders, but a huge part

518
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: of a lot of this is this is interrupting my

519
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: quality of life. This is where sometimes I look at

520
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: depending on what your career is, So somebody who is

521
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: a professional runner, they're going to run more than me, right,

522
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: so their running schedule, it might not be interrupting the

523
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: quality of their life because that's their job, or like

524
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: a football player. Now, I do think there's some like

525
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: disorderedness and professional athletes the way that they are expected

526
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: to train and enforced in all of that, and somebody

527
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: who plays professional football them practicing football for I don't know,

528
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: four hours a day is different than my husband who

529
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: doesn't have those ext He has to go to work

530
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: at his accounting job. And then if he's like, I

531
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: got to go play football for four hours, I'd be like, Okay,

532
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: this is what about your family? Yes, this is disrupting

533
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: the quality of your life because you aren't able to

534
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: say no when that doesn't fit into certain things. So

535
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: it's helpful to talk to mental health professionals about this

536
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: stuff because I think what I see a lot of

537
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: times is people are like, oh, I relate.

538
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: To that, and then they create a bigger issue.

539
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: Out of something that might just be like, oh I

540
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: relate to that. It doesn't mean that this now is

541
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: taking over my life and I have to create all

542
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: these interventions and do all this stuff and change all

543
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: these things about myself, when really it might just be like,

544
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: oh I relate to that. I might want to take

545
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: a little of that and use that for myself, but

546
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: I don't need this to become like who I am

547
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: as a person. Yes, I think that's what I'm trying

548
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: to get at. That felt important. People are creating personality

549
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: traits out of some of this stuff, and I'm like it.

550
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 1: Even when you're have a diagnosed mental health disorder, that's

551
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: not all of who you are. Like, you probably know

552
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: people and I'm talking to like the people that are listening,

553
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: You probably know people who have mental health disorders. You

554
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: just don't know they have it because it's not their

555
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: entire personality. They don't use that to define who they are.

556
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean some people might and that might be part

557
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: of their disorder, but it doesn't have to be that extreme.

558
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: When we're talking about OCD. It's going to impact the

559
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: quality of your life where you're not able to implement

560
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: these things on your own. Most likely you're not able

561
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: to just listen to this podcast and say, oh, I'll

562
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 1: try that. It's going to take some reinforcement, it's going

563
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: to take some accountability, it might take some medication, it

564
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: might take trying a bunch of different things. You're not

565
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: going to be able to just pick Oh, that sounds

566
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: like an intervention I want to use. I'm going to

567
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: use it.

568
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: Yes, And like I have a client who I'm laughing

569
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: because we talked about this morning and I told her

570
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 2: I was doing this episode. She was like, oh, you

571
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: should talk about this on there. But like she when

572
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: she was growing up had to step on the scale

573
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: three times every single morning, and we were talking about

574
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: how impacted her life.

575
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: And what if she didn't have a scale.

576
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: I asked that question and she said she would bring

577
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 2: it with her on vacation. That is where it's going

578
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: to negatively, Like I get it, I don't really love

579
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: a scale and stepping on a scale whatever, but people

580
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: are going to do that. That's fine, But like where

581
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: impacted her life is like this has to come with

582
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: me everywhere. I have to pack it into my suitcase. So

583
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: that's like.

584
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: An example of like an overnight yes trip, Yeah, she'd

585
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: have to bring a scale. Yes. What I want people

586
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: to hear when they hear that is it's not your

587
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: fault that that might be something you're struggling with and

588
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: she's ten years old and you don't have to continue

589
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: to live that way now.

590
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: OCD often presents like layer in life, but like for

591
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: someone like her it started. She was so young, and

592
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: you're like, wait, this is normal, right, Like everyone does this,

593
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: you have like this is just like what your brain

594
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 2: is telling you you have to do, and so we

595
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: do it.

596
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: So you mentioned it's genetic. Oh my god, it's so genetic.

597
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: And can you also develop it out of a response

598
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: to something?

599
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah you can. The research that I've done is that

600
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: it's very genetic, but yeah you can. And also interesting

601
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: fact is addictions, especially like alcoholism and drugs, can often

602
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: cover OCD. So especially for like our parents and parents.

603
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: Parents you mean cover you mean like mass? Like that's mass, yes,

604
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: Like like that's a response to that.

605
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: I ask is this in your family anywhere? And like

606
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: we've kind of and I've done research on it, but

607
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: like I have clients to be like, well, like you

608
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: know my uncle, like he definitely has addictions. He is

609
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 2: an alcoholic, and I'm like we talk about how oh

610
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: oh wait I think he is. Like this is the

611
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: word I'm looking for a coping skill, like yeah, alcoholism, drugs.

612
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: It's often used as a.

613
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: Coping skill of compulsion or is it coping with the.

614
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: Coping with the uncomfortable, obsessive thoughts or especially when again,

615
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: like the older generations who didn't go to therapy, our

616
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: generation is much better by going to therapy and getting

617
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: diagnosed and getting help. But like, the thoughts are so

618
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: uncomfortable that we often start drinking. That's not true, but

619
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: like it is a common thing.

620
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,959
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, and that's natural for us to search for

621
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: something to make us feel better.

622
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: Yes, like especially like like say, like someone's having the

623
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: sexual thoughts that's so uncomfortable because.

624
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: I want to drown that out.

625
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: Yes, you think I'm bad, I'm the problem. I'm a

626
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: horrible person. I'm morally so wrong, and I need to

627
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: drown out this really uncomfortable feeling. And I start drinking.

628
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: Well, and I just would want to make those thoughts

629
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: go away. Yeah, Or it's the shame and it's the

630
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: fact that I don't want to think this anymore.

631
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: So much shame and OCD are besties.

632
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: And I imagine, like a lot of things that people

633
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: like the thoughts are just so frustrating. It's like I

634
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: want the noise to go away. Yes, So I get that,

635
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: And I get how I mean, you might go to

636
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: turn to drugs and alcohol, hal but I get while

637
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: you also would turn to other things that just take

638
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: your brain space up, either numb and out so I

639
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: don't I'm not thinking at all, or force me to

640
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: focus on something else, and then that becomes maybe even

641
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: another obsession.

642
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: The compulsions make a lot of sense because they provide

643
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: that relief. Yeah, it's super temporary, your obsession is going

644
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: to come back, but it's like, oh, okay, I did

645
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: the compulsion, I'm okay now, but then it pops up

646
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 2: a day later, an hour later, whatever it is.

647
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: Which is what creates the cycle because you're not attacking

648
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: the root of.

649
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: That and we're not just like sitting with the uncomfortableness

650
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: and learning how to actually cope with that uncomfortable feeling,

651
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: that uncomfortable obsession.

652
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: This is a perfect episode to come after the one

653
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: I just did about discomfort, because I was talking so

654
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: much about how we are not and our world is

655
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: not trained to sit with that discomfort. We are we

656
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: are very good at finding a way to get out

657
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: of it.

658
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: The Brittany Snow episode on Call Yes Loves How, she

659
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: asked her friend like she was going through a really

660
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: bad divorce and she Brittany Snow asked her friend like,

661
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: how do I get through this? And Her friend responded

662
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: with you sit with it?

663
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, love that. Okay. So I don't know if

664
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: I even mentioned, but I just recently listened to I

665
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: think it was last week that it came out that

666
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: Brittany Snow Call Her Daddy episode. And I didn't know

667
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: that Britney Snow struggled with an eating disorder. Ye HAHD

668
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: no idea. And so I just like Brittany Snow and

669
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: so listened to it and I was like, oh my gosh,

670
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: it's a very good episode to listen to, to hear somebody

671
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: talk about recovery in a realistic and honest and real way.

672
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: She seems and she sounds like she's done some really

673
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: good work and I can't wait to watch her movie.

674
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: SOA well, it came out this past Friday. If you

675
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: guys are listening to this on Monday. Came out on Friday,

676
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: select theaters. But I looked in nowhere around us is

677
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: showing it, but it's streaming, I think, on the twelfth.

678
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna we should all get Yeah, we should.

679
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 1: It's it looks like a movie that could be very

680
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: trickering because it appears to be so like realistic. It's

681
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: based off of her life. So I would caution anybody

682
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: who is gonna listen. It's called Parachute. It's about her

683
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: recovery process, and she wrote it and directed it. I

684
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: would encourage people that are watching it either to be

685
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: with people that feel safe that they can process it with,

686
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: or you don't have to watch it if you're not

687
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: in a place where you can handle that much relatability,

688
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: because I know there's parts of my life that I

689
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to watch that it would have

690
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: been a mess. But yes, what she said when she

691
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: was talking about like what am I supposed to do

692
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: if I can't like fix this or change this, She's like,

693
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: you just sit with it. And we are given so

694
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: many I mean, anytime you turn on the TV or

695
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: open anything up, we're given so many options of how

696
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: to take away that feeling that we get the message

697
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: that we're not supposed to sit with that, we're not

698
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: supposed to have that when that's part of their human

699
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: experience is to sit with discomfort. You don't have to

700
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: like it, and I would hope you don't like it,

701
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: and I would hope that you don't like hope for

702
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: that to happen to you, But it's to be human

703
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: is to experience discomfort.

704
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and how could we actually really fully experience the

705
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: great parts of our life if we didn't have the discomfort.

706
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: We wouldn't know if everything was the same. Yeah, all right, well,

707
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: thank you for being here and having this conversation. Is

708
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: there anything you would want to say or share that

709
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: we haven't said.

710
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 2: I just think that like the shame piece of it.

711
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: I think like just a reminder of like it is okay,

712
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 2: and you are just like everyone else, and you're not

713
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: a bad person if you have these thoughts and that

714
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 2: it's actually very common and that you're gonna be okay.

715
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: And if you do and it's negatively impacting your life

716
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 2: or debilitating distressing in your life, then I would definitely

717
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: recommend seeking a therapist.

718
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: And if you live in Tennessee, that therapist could be Josy. Oh.

719
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

720
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: I get a lot of messages about working with either

721
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: myself or people in my practice, and I feel like

722
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: I say this a lot, but not every listens to

723
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: Usually people, Oh, the conversations over, I'm gonna turn this off.

724
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: We can only work with people who live in Tennessee

725
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: because of licensing laws with our specific types of licenses.

726
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: So that's why we might be able to see people virtually,

727
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: but only if they live in the state that we

728
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: have a license in. So if you live in Tennessee

729
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 1: and you're in Tennessee and you are looking for a therapist,

730
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: you can reach out to us Three Courts Therapy dot com.

731
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: If you want to follow the podcast at You Need

732
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: Therapy Podcasts, you can follow me at cat dot Defada.

733
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: You can follow Three Courts Therapy at three Courts Therapy.

734
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: I don't know that Josie wants you to follow her

735
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: on her personal account.

736
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 2: Line is private and I post like once every six months.

737
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: It's just not even not interesting.

738
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: But you might see her face every now and then

739
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: on three Chords. And if you have any questions, feedback, comments,

740
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: you can email me Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast

741
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 1: dot com. And I think that's going to be it. Yeah,

742
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: all right, hope you guys have the day you need

743
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: to have and I will be back with you on

744
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: Wednesday for couch Shocks.

745
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 2: Bye.