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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from House top

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and we are halfway through March,

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Speaker 1: which means we're halfway through Women's History Month, which also

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Speaker 1: means carolinea for the purposes of this podcast, we're halfway

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Speaker 1: through change Makers. That's right. This has been an incredible

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Speaker 1: series that I've personally been enjoying and I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of our listeners have been enjoying too. We've talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about motivation and changing the world, and today

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Speaker 1: will be no different. Yeah. So this whole change Maker

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Speaker 1: series that we've been airing as bonus episodes every Friday

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Speaker 1: in March all relates back to the women that we're

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Speaker 1: talking to today. Because, as we've talked about in previous

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Speaker 1: intros to our change Maker's episodes, the first one with

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Speaker 1: domestic worker organizer i gam Poo and then with soccer

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Speaker 1: superstar Abby Wambach, we've talked about how this whole thing

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Speaker 1: was inspired by going to a women's empowerment conference hosted

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Speaker 1: by Makers, which is an a o L platform and

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Speaker 1: is the largest video archive of women's stories. And while

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Speaker 1: we've also noted that Gloria Sinum is kind of the

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Speaker 1: godmother and the central inspiration, but it was really this

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Speaker 1: filmmaker Dylan McGee who made the whole thing happen, right,

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Speaker 1: And so today we're talking with Dylan and also her

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Speaker 1: creative director partner Sammy Leevivitz about the importance of telling

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Speaker 1: women's stories, why this storytelling is critical really to our girls,

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Speaker 1: but to all of us at large. So for that reason,

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Speaker 1: today's theme is see It to Be It and I

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Speaker 1: love it because it's something that has resonated throughout so

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Speaker 1: many stuff Mo've Never told you episodes, particularly talking about

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Speaker 1: women in underrepresented fields like the stem fields, where visibility

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Speaker 1: matters so much, to be able to see people who

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Speaker 1: look like you doing incredible things, whether they are publicly

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Speaker 1: recognized or not. Yeah, we've so much of our research

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Speaker 1: has shown over the course of doing the podcast that

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Speaker 1: once you introduce the idea, whether it's being an artist

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Speaker 1: or an astronaut two girls, that helps them so much

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Speaker 1: to envision themselves in those roles or even bigger, better

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Speaker 1: roles that they might not have even thought about before,

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Speaker 1: like being an art astronaut. Right, an artist astronaut? Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: painting in space. That's my dream, even though it is

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Speaker 1: now because I've never thought of it before, and now

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Speaker 1: that you're telling me the story, I have to be it.

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Speaker 1: There you go. Well, I feel like Makers is really

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Speaker 1: providing a needed resource in terms of this visibility because

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Speaker 1: you know, as we've talked about many times, it's a

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Speaker 1: docuseries essentially, which is showcasing the trailblazing biographies of as

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Speaker 1: of this recording, like more than two hundred incredible women

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Speaker 1: from all sorts of backgrounds, doing all sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: Um And they've done series focused on women in comedy, Hollywood, Space,

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Speaker 1: Caroline Base, there you Go, astronauts, but also women in war, business, politics.

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Speaker 1: They've even expanded to uh Canada and to China. Um

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Speaker 1: and for a real big dose of Makers, there was

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Speaker 1: an entire six part series that aired on PBS, which

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Speaker 1: is fantastic if you haven't seen it. Yeah, and Makers,

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Speaker 1: this magical, wonderful, inspirational series is the brainchild of filmmaker

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Speaker 1: Dylan McGee. She's an Emmy Award winning executive producer at

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Speaker 1: Coon Heart McGee Productions, and her creative partner Samantha Lebovitz,

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Speaker 1: who runs Makers as the senior producer and creative director.

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Speaker 1: And I have to tell you, um, I kind of

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Speaker 1: want I know she's a busy lady, but like, I

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Speaker 1: kind of want Dylan around me all the time because

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Speaker 1: her enthusiasm and her passion are both so infectious. This

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Speaker 1: is a woman who just has this incredible vision and

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Speaker 1: and knack for telling women's stories. Yeah. And so we

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Speaker 1: sat down with Dylan and Sammy at the Maker's Conference

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Speaker 1: and the first thing we wanted to know was a

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Speaker 1: what they did, but more importantly why So let's hear

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Speaker 1: from Dylan McGee and Sammy Lee Bowitz. I'm Dylan Magee.

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Speaker 1: I'm the founder and executive producer of Makers, and I

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Speaker 1: have a mission to capture every woman's story because there's

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Speaker 1: a void and there aren't enough stories and we need

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Speaker 1: to fill it. I am Smith Leibovi. It's irun Makers

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Speaker 1: for a o L Vice President, credibjector and feedbacking on

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Speaker 1: Dylan's mission. I want to spread those stories to girls

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Speaker 1: in every single corner of the world. And telling these

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Speaker 1: stories sort of fits in with what Dylan said was

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Speaker 1: a moment for women. She says, maybe it's just my

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Speaker 1: own personal awaking, but there is something in the air

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Speaker 1: these days, a new focus on women's issues. There seems

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Speaker 1: to be a movement brewing, and I hope that Makers

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Speaker 1: plays an important role in it. And if we look

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Speaker 1: at the background of how Makers even happened though, it

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Speaker 1: I think corroborates what McGee is saying in terms of

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Speaker 1: something being in the air. So it started way back

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Speaker 1: when in two thousand five, the olden days Um when

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Speaker 1: McGhee wanted to make a documentary on Glorious Sinum, which

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Speaker 1: is a fantastic idea. Of course, of course you would

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Speaker 1: want to do that, and Glow said, no, yeah, she

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Speaker 1: wasn't interested. She told Dylan McGee to broaden her scope

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Speaker 1: and include more women's voices, more women who are out

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Speaker 1: there doing incredible things for the movement. And you know,

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Speaker 1: Mege said that she thought, well, it's surely this has

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Speaker 1: been done, Like I'm disappointed Gloria won't sit down and

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Speaker 1: do this big documentary with me um, Like surely other

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Speaker 1: people have done some sort of series on women's voices. No, no,

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Speaker 1: they hadn't. And one thing that she said in uh

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Speaker 1: an interview with her that is on Makers dot Com

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Speaker 1: was how private a lot of these stories are so

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Speaker 1: she said quote. As filmmakers, the thing we found most

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Speaker 1: surprising and intriguing about this story is that it's so

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Speaker 1: vast and also so private, because it includes not only

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Speaker 1: the story of feminism and the political change taking place

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Speaker 1: for women over the past fifty years, but also the

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Speaker 1: personal stories happening behind the scenes of women fighting for

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Speaker 1: equality in the workplace and at home. And I'll tell you, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: reading that quote, it reminds me of so many of

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Speaker 1: the stuff Mo've never told you letters that we get.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the whole other piece of this entire show,

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Speaker 1: not just this mini series, but this whole Sminty universe,

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Speaker 1: where you and I talk about a lot of these

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Speaker 1: front facing issues and the political changes that are still

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Speaker 1: happening for women, and then we hear from men and

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Speaker 1: women alike about how that personally affects them. And so often,

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Speaker 1: I mean, those stories are so private, we don't talk

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Speaker 1: about them very often. Yeah, And it's not only those

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Speaker 1: private stories things that are going on behind the scenes,

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Speaker 1: how these big either global national issues are affecting people's

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Speaker 1: lives on a small scale. But it's also that sort

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Speaker 1: of pulling back the curtain on how people got where

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Speaker 1: they are, you know, Kristen and I, we we try

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Speaker 1: to tell you how the heroines that we discuss in

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Speaker 1: our in our podcasts, how they got where they where

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Speaker 1: they're going, whether it's a mentor whether it's just pulling

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Speaker 1: themselves up by their bootstraps. And um, I think Dylan

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Speaker 1: and Sammy too are are trying to do that as well,

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Speaker 1: to showcase how these large issues are affecting people, but

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Speaker 1: also just how they did it, how they succeeded well.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of that, Caroline, we should back up for

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Speaker 1: a minute and talk about how McGee got to where

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Speaker 1: she is, because you know, she spends so much time

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Speaker 1: telling other people's stories in such beautiful and profound ways,

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Speaker 1: but she has such an important story that we can

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Speaker 1: learn from as well. Because initially she wanted to be

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Speaker 1: the next Katie Kuric. That Today Show was all the rage,

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Speaker 1: and she even landed an internship offer from them, but

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Speaker 1: I think it was a producer at the Today Show

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Speaker 1: suggested that she go to a smaller documentary firm so

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Speaker 1: that she could get more experience, which is how she

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Speaker 1: ended up at Coon Heart And she told Teen Vogue,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember who this woman was, but she completely

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Speaker 1: shaped my career. I went in turned and fell in

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Speaker 1: love with documentary filmmaking, and I became an accidental filmmaker

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Speaker 1: for me. I started my career as an intern with

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Speaker 1: a filmmaker named Peter Coonhart and I'm I mean one

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Speaker 1: of the things also you think about girls today is

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Speaker 1: they think you have to know what you want to do.

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Speaker 1: I was clueless, I said, I just took the first

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Speaker 1: job that came my way. I was like, okay, I'll

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Speaker 1: in turn for a documentary film company, and then I

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Speaker 1: fell in love with it and I just worked my

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Speaker 1: way up and it was I think, honestly, I think

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Speaker 1: it's passion that gets you further. Carla Harris today when

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Speaker 1: she was on the stage, I think it was very

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Speaker 1: interesting what she said. It's not like you just have

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Speaker 1: to be good at your job. You have to be

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Speaker 1: good at your job and take it to the next level.

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Speaker 1: And Dylan and Sammy both hoped to use filmmaking and

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Speaker 1: makers in particular to inspire that same kind of passion

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Speaker 1: and younger female viewers. Again, this goes back to that

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Speaker 1: unofficial maker's motto of if you can see it, you

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Speaker 1: can be it. It's that visibility factor that we also

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Speaker 1: try to emphasize. I mean, if you just take it

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Speaker 1: to the school level, when kids are learning school and

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Speaker 1: I've an eleven year old and a thirteen year old,

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Speaker 1: and I look at what they're learning and it's still

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Speaker 1: the old classics, all the you know, all the men,

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Speaker 1: and I think we need to it's it's the classic

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Speaker 1: you know, Glorious Side and Billy jan King, so many

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Speaker 1: of our makers, excent if she can see it, she

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Speaker 1: can be it. And we have to flood the marketplace

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Speaker 1: with these stories so girls know that they can do it.

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Speaker 1: Even though I think it feels more than fifty years

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Speaker 1: ago like women can do it, it's still until you

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Speaker 1: have that image in your head, and that that if

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Speaker 1: there's an unconscious bias, the girls, even though they feel empowered,

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Speaker 1: don't know unless they see it. And in addition to

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Speaker 1: educating ourselves about our heritage, I would say, as women

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Speaker 1: and all of the trailblazing that women passed and present

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Speaker 1: have done and are continuing to do, and the ways

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Speaker 1: that we can learn from them, see it to be

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Speaker 1: it um to achieve our own definitions of success. One

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Speaker 1: thing that Dylan talked to Teen Vogue about a while back.

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Speaker 1: Is also the importance of young women or women of

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Speaker 1: any age, anyone of any age, understanding how we really can,

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Speaker 1: as she calls it, shape our own destiny. Um. She

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Speaker 1: said that, I think it's so hard for women, especially

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Speaker 1: to understand that you're in control. There's a sense that

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Speaker 1: you're waiting for the next thing to come along. But

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Speaker 1: you can shape your destiny, you can make things happen.

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Speaker 1: You're in control of change. Yeah, you're in control of change.

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Speaker 1: And there's really nothing too small on that path to

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Speaker 1: making things happen. You know. It's it's really tempting to

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Speaker 1: assume that we can never achieve these large goals of

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Speaker 1: being astronaut artists for instance. Oh it's not too big, Caroline, right,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, well the suits awfully bit. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you gotta make room for all your paints, slama paints.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's easy to assume that that we we

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Speaker 1: just can't make it there. That's a great goal, it's

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Speaker 1: a great dream. But you know, I'm my station in

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Speaker 1: life feels too small, my skill set feels too small.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe we just feel like we're spinning our wheels

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Speaker 1: and we haven't made enough personal progress. We hear all

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Speaker 1: of these trailblazers amazing achievements, whether it's in Makers or

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Speaker 1: whether it's in those bio episodes that Kristen and I do.

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Speaker 1: But it's important to hear, like we said, all of

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Speaker 1: those little incremental steps and stumbles and victories that women

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Speaker 1: experience along the way, and so showing those paths is

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Speaker 1: really part of what Makers does so well, and it's

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Speaker 1: reflected in how both Dylan and Sammy do discussed the

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Speaker 1: shared passions of the women that they profile. But I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that if you look at

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Speaker 1: all of our Makers, what they all have in common

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Speaker 1: is they look good at something and they were encouraged

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Speaker 1: to do it, and they stuck with it no matter what.

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Speaker 1: So it's the view of a passion. It's following that

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Speaker 1: passion through well. I was gonna add to that that

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Speaker 1: there's also nothing too small. But I was just talking

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Speaker 1: actually with Megan Smith that stage about how last night

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Speaker 1: she's at the casting director who does something as simple

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Speaker 1: as now she instead of writing, oh, background audience, she writes,

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Speaker 1: make half the audience email like don't have a subway

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Speaker 1: car shown with just white males, and actually just like

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Speaker 1: literally write that in the script and things like that too,

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Speaker 1: from what we've got on the stage yesterday, of don't

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Speaker 1: have a stack of resumes there, and if there's no

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Speaker 1: female candidates there, don't demand that there is one. There's

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Speaker 1: no nothing too small that will help in fact change

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Speaker 1: that way. It's a thing of our conference too. And

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Speaker 1: what Sammy says about nothing being too small to help

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Speaker 1: impact change applies to us too. It applies to anyone

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Speaker 1: listening to this podcast right now, because there is such

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Speaker 1: an importance of not belittling the personal and social change

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Speaker 1: that we can all make ourselves, Because I mean, it

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Speaker 1: is intimidating to have a goal of like I want

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Speaker 1: to make history. I want to achieve gender equality and

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Speaker 1: everything will be great for everyone. Yeah, that that feels lofty,

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Speaker 1: but there are things that we can do every day

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Speaker 1: to just live out what we do want to see.

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Speaker 1: It's like the next step beyond see it, to be it.

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Speaker 1: So it's funny we call it on our team the

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Speaker 1: chair movers. I love that that there's no test too

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Speaker 1: small mentality, and I think it's really important, especially when

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Speaker 1: you look at what you read about the millennial generation.

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Speaker 1: How can we prove that wrong? How can we be

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Speaker 1: like Oh, I'm in this room, and like every single

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Speaker 1: body in this room is here for a reason. Be

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Speaker 1: a chair mover, Like, move the chair the charness we moved, UM,

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Speaker 1: and nothing is beneath you that way. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's a great way to people respect that and people

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Speaker 1: recognize that, UM, and I think they I've seen the

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Speaker 1: other people go far with that mentality, and so I

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Speaker 1: mean talking about going far by starting small, I mean,

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Speaker 1: once you get on that path, what do you do?

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Speaker 1: How do you stick with it? How do you stay motivated? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we definitely wanted to ask Dylan and Sammy about this

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Speaker 1: because I mean, remember this started with an idea in

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Speaker 1: two thousand five that is completely and totally different from

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Speaker 1: the outcome. Now. There is a Gloria documentary that Dylan

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Speaker 1: was finally able to produce this on HBO called Gloria's

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Speaker 1: sinem in her own words, and I highly recommend you

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Speaker 1: watch it because it's fantastic. But they have built this

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Speaker 1: massive archive. They're still building this archive. They're constantly on

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Speaker 1: the road going out to interview women and collect their

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Speaker 1: stories and produce them, and then of course hosting this

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Speaker 1: massive female empowerment conference that Caroline and I have been

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Speaker 1: fortunate enough to attend. So for these women who seem

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Speaker 1: to never ever stop, how do you keep that up?

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Speaker 1: How do you keep that paced up? It's a great question,

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Speaker 1: nas and day two of a conference. For me, I

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Speaker 1: have an amazing husband and an amazing two kids, and

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Speaker 1: my sequence of success isn't I've learned the word no.

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Speaker 1: It's a good one to prioritize. And I used to

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Speaker 1: be a yes woman, which I think was great. There's

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Speaker 1: a time in your life when seeing yes to every

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Speaker 1: opportunity is what you should do. And then I think

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Speaker 1: you reach a point where you have to say yes

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Speaker 1: and no. See. And I'm a different life situation than

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Speaker 1: Dylan right now. I have a fiancee and we both

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Speaker 1: you know, work pretty demanding twenty for hour jobs, and

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Speaker 1: so we've talked a lot of like work life balance,

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Speaker 1: and I don't love the idea of using the words

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Speaker 1: work life balance, but I do think there's like creative time.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really important. I think that you know

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Speaker 1: what they're are people like us. To keep going with

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Speaker 1: what we're doing, you have to give your gifts peak

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Speaker 1: step back. I appreciate what you have been doing and

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Speaker 1: think about what it is next, and I give yourself

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Speaker 1: that time alone to actually have that creative thinking it's

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Speaker 1: easier to have been done, but making that happen. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's all fabulous advice and um. In talking

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Speaker 1: with Teen Vogue, Dylan also had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: advice for her younger self, which we always love, advice

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Speaker 1: that really successful, amazing women would give to their younger selves.

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Speaker 1: It's like almost getting a peek inside some geniuses brain.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I feel like it's just advice

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Speaker 1: directed at me, you know, like, oh yeah, oh that's

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Speaker 1: me perfect. I'm not twelve. But I really appreciate this advice.

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Speaker 1: And Dylan's told to you Vogue that she would tell herself, relax,

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Speaker 1: you have to enjoy what you're doing and not be

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Speaker 1: so afraid. When I was starting off in my career

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Speaker 1: was during the Internet boom. People my age were millionaires,

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Speaker 1: and here I was this poorly paid documentary associate producer,

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Speaker 1: thinking I was and successful enough instead of just enjoying

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Speaker 1: that I was doing incredible work. She goes on to say,

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Speaker 1: don't judge yourself by your peers. Judge yourself by yourself

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Speaker 1: and your own happiness. Oh, and that's such a great

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Speaker 1: way of explaining how we all start where we're at.

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Speaker 1: And that's totally okay, you know, because the more we

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Speaker 1: compare ourselves to other people, of course some are frustrated,

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Speaker 1: will be because we're always going to find someone who

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Speaker 1: is richer, prettier, smarter, and more successful than we are.

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Speaker 1: In Caroline, I'm looking at her right now. Yea, well,

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Speaker 1: and well, I should probably take off the astronaut suit.

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Speaker 1: It is pretty glamorous. Yeah, I mean it's really they're

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Speaker 1: shiny bits to it. I can see how it's intimidating,

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Speaker 1: But no, I like the idea of paying more heed

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Speaker 1: to finding your center, finding what you're good at, what

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Speaker 1: makes you happy, because you're never going to be as

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Speaker 1: happy and successful doing what you think you should be doing,

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Speaker 1: or doing what other people tell you should be doing,

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Speaker 1: as you would be if you were just following your passion,

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Speaker 1: following what is your natural skill set. And if you

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Speaker 1: do catch yourself doing the negative comparison of looking for

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Speaker 1: someone to kind of make you feel better judging other

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Speaker 1: people's choices and decisions, that's a good time to recall

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Speaker 1: Amy Poehler's motto, which we have adopted and repeated so

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Speaker 1: many times now on stuff I've never told you, which

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Speaker 1: is good for her, not for me. Essentially, you do you.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's takeaway, Yeah, you do you, but

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Speaker 1: also cheer on the people around you well, and I

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Speaker 1: feel massively cheered on by, you know, talking to these

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Speaker 1: literal change makers doing so much work both in the

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Speaker 1: environments and communities around them, but also at large. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've talked to Abby Wombach who has like the entire

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Speaker 1: world as her platform, and of course workers Advocate I

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Speaker 1: gen Poo, who just seems like she's going to save

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Speaker 1: the world absolutely and paying attention to dignifying the kind

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Speaker 1: of work that's so often overlooked in the same way

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Speaker 1: that Dylan and Sammy are doing this important work of

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Speaker 1: telling the stories that have been historically overlooked and encouraging

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Speaker 1: women to speak out. So we hope you do speak out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we hope that as mini series has been inspiring

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Speaker 1: and empowering for you to start on your path to

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Speaker 1: change making as well. So with that, listeners, we want

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Speaker 1: to hear from you what's on your minds. Mom Stuff

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Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot Com is our email address.

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Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast or

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Speaker 1: learn more about us, you can find all of our blogs, videos,

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Speaker 1: and podcasts over its Stuff Mom Never Told You dot

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