WEBVTT - Renovate or Move? #057 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.719 Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.800 and today or discussing whether it's better to renovate or move. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.200 All right, man, I'm really looking forward to tackling this 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.560 topic today because you're in the middle of a renovation. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:32.360 I walked up to your house to record this evening 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.440 and there are piles of lumber in your front yard. 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:36.040 I feel like we have a lot to say. Yeah, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:37.559 the woods there, they just gotta haul it off. It 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:39.840 is extra would we're gonna return it because we didn't 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:41.640 use it? There you go, Yeah, I gotta get that 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:43.560 money back. All right. Before we get to the topic 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.040 of renovation, though, have you noticed my sweet new haircut? 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:47.959 You look a little less shabby? I will say, yeah, 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:49.720 you're look you're looking at sharp. Man. Well, I wanted 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.440 to tell everyone that I got a free haircut, and 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.400 I've been getting free haircuts for quite some time. Now. 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:56.360 You also get free haircuts. We'll talk about that in 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.320 one second. Um. But I go to this program that 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.880 Supercuts runs. They retrained their stylists every couple of years 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.960 or so, and so those stylists that are being retrained 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.920 need to give haircuts to practice the things that they've 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.600 learned that practiced their craft, right, Yeah, And so I 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.959 sign up and I probably need a haircut, I don't know, 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:16.240 every six eight weeks or so, and so I'll go 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.400 just up the street from where I work and and 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:20.640 I'll get a free haircut. And so today I got 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.600 another free haircut. Looks pretty smooth, feeling fresh. Yeah. And 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:25.720 I gotta tell you, some days are better than others 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:28.240 when I go there. Yeah, I can assess to that 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.000 because there's been some times to do or you've come 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.240 back and like your your hair is trimmed next to 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:33.920 your ears, like all the way up almost to like 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:35.679 the top of your ear, I look a little dumb 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.080 and dumberish or something like that. Oh man, Then that 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.640 that's making me think of dental work. You can do 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:42.800 the same thing with dental work, right. I remember growing 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.360 up in Augusta, Georgia, and they've got a dental school 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.800 there that you could go and get your teeth cleaned 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.680 for free by a dental hygienists. They're practicing their craft. 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:54.880 And what a free, awesome way to get your teeth cleaned, 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.480 which might be something I know our listeners would like 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:59.560 to hear me do because I got some flak for 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:02.680 not going to the dentist every I don't know, six 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:04.960 months or something whatever some folks do. Yeah, so maybe 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:06.560 find a free place to go get your teeth clean. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.359 I will report back. But when it comes to haircuts, though, man, Yeah, 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.680 I've cut my own hair for the past over twenty 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.359 years now, like ever since I was a kid. Basically, 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:15.920 my mom messed up one time because she used to 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.120 cut my hair and she screwed it up, and I 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:20.880 was so upset at her. I told her, I was like, 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.200 You're never gonna cut my hair again, because I was 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.880 an angsty preteen, I'm sure. And yeah, for the past 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.120 over twenty years now, I've had a little haircutting kit 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:31.200 and I've cut my own hair. And I've actually cut 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.440 your hair too, like at the beach you have, Yeah, 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.639 and what do you think? Decent? It was solid. Yeah, 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:36.960 I'm not gonna lie. It was good. I would do 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.000 it again. I would do it again. I would rather 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.080 have you cut my hair than pay for a haircut. 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.000 I'll tell you that. Boom and and so I'll tell everyone. 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.040 I'll add props coming from my co host. So I'll 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.640 put a link in the show notes to the program there. 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:53.240 It's nationwide and you can find a supercut center near 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.760 you where they retrain people. And so if you're like 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.440 me and you don't like paying for haircuts, you prefer 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.480 to get it for free. And I will say that 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.160 there's a slight trade off, right, I have to drive 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.000 just to touch further in order to get this haircut. 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:08.080 The second trade off is the complete feeling of insecurity 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.239 that's bubbling up inside of me while my hair is 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.200 being cut. It you're like, what am I gonna look 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.440 like walking out of here? Just exactly the stress and 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.720 it just it Also it takes quite a bit longer, 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.359 I feel like, because the person that's in charge has 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.079 to oversee and make sure that the person is doing 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:26.600 it well. So it's gonna take a little bit longer 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.400 to get your hair cut. Did you get grated on 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.880 the spot? No, but they are correcting them as they 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.200 go and pointers and whatnot, tips and tricks all that 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.440 kind of stuff. Yeah, but I found it to be 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:37.040 worth it, and it's actually it's kind of fun. I 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.120 kind of like the people there at this point. So yeah, 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.160 but just word of the wise, if you're find a 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.720 place near you, and if you don't know of one. 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.160 Check out our show notes for for this episode and 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:47.880 you'll you'll see the link for the article I wrote 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.560 about the many places around the country where you can 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.400 get a free haircut. Yeah, and I'll mention too that 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.520 this isn't gonna be for everyone, right, Like, some people 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.360 are gonna value having their hair cut by their stylist 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.520 or someone who knows them really well and knows exactly 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:02.760 what they like. You know, my old roommate in college, 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.360 he uh was one of those guys that would pay 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:06.680 a good bit of money to go to this nicer 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.120 salon like John Edwards Style four hundred and something knowledge 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.360 for hair. Yeah, not quite, but he didn't go to 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.640 this hip place downtown Athens. And what he told me 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.760 was that my hair is the only thing I wear 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.080 every single day. If I spend uh, you know, some 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:20.960 money on a nice bear of jeans, and I wear 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.559 those almost every day, why wouldn't I spend some decent 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.240 money on a haircut? Flawed logic. I don't agree that 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.279 that was his approach, And why you wear a hat 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.360 it's much cheaper, But I mean again that that being said, 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.679 some people value having a really nice haircut, having it styled. 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:37.840 You and I do not, even though we still want 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:39.800 to look nice, like we've got nice hair, and I 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.200 don't really care. Yeah, no, I look, I still look amazing. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:43.840 I'm just saying, but you want to look decent. But 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:45.640 for instance, for us, like we would rather take that 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.719 money and put it towards nice craft beer completely. And 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:50.520 that's exactly what it comes down to. I mean, for me, 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.880 the thought processes, I can go spend fifteen dollars and 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.840 a five dollar tip whatever it costs these days year 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:00.200 since I this, Yeah, it's somewhere in that ballpark some 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.280 really good beer for twenty bucks, and that's just kind 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:03.600 of the trade off in my mind. That that's the 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.520 way I think about it. And so yeah, for me, 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:07.800 going to get the free haircut totally worth it. I mean, 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:09.880 like this beer that you brought for tonight's this is 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.440 a Burial beer company surf Wax, and I know that 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.680 this is one of your favorite beers completely. Burial is 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.480 one of my favorite breweries right now. Yeah, and in 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.839 my opinion probably overall, if I'm just factoring in every 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.040 single possible thing when it comes to how many good 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:29.040 beers they make, and they're cool packaging and stuff like that. 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.680 I think Burials number one on my list right really, Yeah, 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.039 best breweries in the Southeast, best approach to beer, best flavors. 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.400 Their artwork is totally awesome too. It's kind a little apocalyptic, yeah, 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.040 a little pop. It's like apocalyptic mixed with folk, which 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.160 is probably why you love it, because that's sort of 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.360 your jams. Some of them are like a little weird, 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.760 but I don't know. I kind of like the silver 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.960 cans and I love the script that they use, and 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.400 and surf Wax is just my go to beer right now. So, Matt, 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.000 I see you taking the ship. Give me one word 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.719 that you would use to describe this delightful I pa 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.440 from Burial, Dude, it's great? Is great your word? Because 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.360 that's not a great word. My one word is gonna 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.400 be gold standard. What are your thoughts? Man? Used to 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.240 love this? I p a yeah, my word. It's been 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.000 a minute since I've had this, but for a long 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.400 time that's all I was drinking. I felt like and 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.279 my word is balanced. But Matt will get to some 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.120 more tasting notes about this beer at the end of 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.760 the show, but right now, let's get to the topic 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.599 at hand. Is it better to renovate a home or 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.440 to move. And there's a problem that a lot of 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.840 people face when they find themselves bumping up against a 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:35.039 home that feels too small, and families needs changed as 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.839 they have more kids, or maybe one of the parents 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.359 begins to work from home, finds themselves in need of 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.160 a home office. All these sorts of changes make us 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.719 start to think, if we're living in a smaller house, well, hey, 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.960 do I renovate that home or do we attempt to 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.240 move and find another home that that suits are needs 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.880 more appropriately? And so in this episode, we we want 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.360 to tackle all of the potential thoughts that go through 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.400 your head and kind of help people make an informed 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.080 decision as to what the better move is for their situation. 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.520 And you know, for a lot of people, they think 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.120 the only solution is to either sell your home or 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.400 to stay and renovate, like you mentioned, but with home 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.920 prices at pretty much all time highs right now, renovating 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.239 might seem like that no brainers, you know, great solution, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.320 right if you're running out of space. And for me, man, 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.680 I'm talking out of personal experience, because for us at 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.160 our old home, we did plan to renovate. We had 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.040 gotten drawings. We had dreamed of how we're going to 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.080 be in the house basically forever. We started getting quotes, 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.440 and through that process is when we realized that, you 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.200 know what, we think it's gonna be better this time 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.360 to actually move to a different home. And we had 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.120 different reasons for that. But then now a few years later, 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:42.440 we're now obviously renovating our home and gosh, man, I 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.240 feel like this is something that Kate and I have 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.400 talked about NonStop for the past several years. It's just 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.240 something that's been on our minds where we're kind of 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.320 always weighing the pros and cons Should we move, should 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.840 we stay where we are and renovate to accommodate for 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.760 a growing family? And you know, I work from home, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.240 like you mentioned having a home office. There's us a 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.680 lot to consider, and yeah, we're gonna unpack all that 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:06.280 this episode. And you moved just around the corner, literally 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.720 like three or four blocks, right from where you were 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:10.520 to where you are now. And so for a lot 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.040 of people, moving can often mean moving three or four 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:17.640 miles or further, and that compounds the difficulty of that decision. 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.360 But I will say too, on top of it, the 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.160 housing market in the particulars of where the housing market 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.560 is at the current moment in time kind of compounds 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.400 of difficulty of a decision like that as well, because 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.160 if you're talking about a few years ago, Matt, when 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:33.080 you bought this home, when you made the decision to 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.760 move as opposed to renovate, it actually made a little 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:39.079 bit more sense to move, just because housing prices were 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.240 a little bit lower, mortgage interest rates were still incredibly 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.839 low all time lows. Yeah, and so the current housing 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.480 market actually can lend itself to to make the decision 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.000 towards renovating a little bit easier, even with renovating costs 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.480 having gone higher, because hiring a contractor has gotten more expensive, 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:00.240 right because of so many building projects happening around the country. Man, 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:02.920 That's definitely true. When we contacted our contractor last year, 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.520 he basically said, in you know, over ten years, this 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.440 is the busiest that he has ever been. And so 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.000 to get his subs lined up and to try to 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.400 maintain a you know, a specific tight schedule, he forewarned 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.320 me that, hey, this is gonna be a little bit tough, 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:16.120 but you know that he would do the best he could. 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.640 But yeah, I like what you said, how given that 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:22.000 certain market conditions might favor one over the other. Yeah, 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.120 and so we are not necessarily going to cover all 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.959 the current market conditions that make it. We're gonna talk 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.120 about kind of a generalized overview of how you should 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.520 make this decision. But just remember that it completely depends 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.079 on exactly what's happening in the housing market. And four 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.200 or five years ago it made sense in so many 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.280 more cases to move and to buy another home as 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.840 opposed to renovate the current home you're in. But right now, 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.439 with like Matt said, prices close to all time highs, 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.560 the opposite is more likely true in your case, and 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.120 renovating actually makes more sense for most people right now. 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.480 And also I wanted to mention as well that I mean, 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.400 you and I are the cheap guys. We're not cheap, 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.400 we're frugal, right, but we can cut each other's hair 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.320 if for your haircuts. And it almost sounds kind of 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:04.560 funny to talk about how like, Okay, people have to 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:06.880 either move and sell your house or you have to 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:08.840 renovate and spend a ton of money that way, but 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.600 it's worth mentioning challenge yourself to do neither, Like how 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.960 could you use your space that you currently have in 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.640 a different way. Maybe you could repurpose a formal dining 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.120 room that you never use into a play space or 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.720 a den for your kids. Look at the different spaces 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.000 in your home a little more critically. There's so much 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:25.680 that you can do if you spend a couple hundred bucks, 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.160 say at Ikea, and fix up your storage solutions in 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.840 order to just make your space a lot more livable. Yeah, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.199 and if you're adding on because you want a guest 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.360 bedroom in your house, we'll think about how much money 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.360 that could potentially cost, and think about at the same time, 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.040 what if you offered to pay for a hotel room 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.200 a couple of times a year for people that come 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.800 into town to stay with you. That could actually, in 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.319 a long run, end up costing you so much less. 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:50.480 And so just yeah, I think a little bit outside 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:52.960 the box when it comes to this question of renovating 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.079 or moving. We think this is an important topic to 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.840 cover because there are so many people face with this question. But, 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.320 like Matt said, little challenge delaying this decision a little 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.400 bit and forcing yourself to live, you know, within a 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.120 certain space while you save the cash too. For a 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:11.280 potential renovation or move right is a worthwhile exercise, and 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.200 at the same time, you might find that with a 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.000 few small changes and tweaks to your current layout, you 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.760 can easily and happily live inside of the space that 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.920 you're currently inhabiting. Yeah, and cost is obviously one of 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.520 the biggest things to consider when you're debating between renovating 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:28.839 or moving. And so we're gonna get to that right 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:40.680 after the break, all right, Jeel, Costs gonna kick it off, Yeah, Matt, 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.640 the costs of moving that purchasing a new home. The 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.199 costs don't end at the closing table. And don't get 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:47.480 me wrong, there are a lot of costs of the 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.040 closing table right. There are agency fees on both sides 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.840 of of selling and buying. If you are moving, their 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.480 closing costs associated with that, you'll likely be paying more interest, 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.480 a higher interest rate on your new loan to pending on. 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.360 You know when you bought the house you're currently in 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.640 and what your current mortgage rade is. But on top 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.640 of that, you're talking about new paint, new decor, furniture 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.000 outfitting the new space. So buying a new home can 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.520 be expensive, and especially if you're in this quandary of 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.040 renovating verse buying. You're looking at buying a bigger home, 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.199 you're likely taking on a bigger obligation altogether, and you're 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.280 gonna need to buy more stuff because all your old 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.440 stuff just isn't gonna fill out this new home quite 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.520 as well. Yes, right man. We talked about that in 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:27.959 the Everything Costs More Than You Think episode. That's sort 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.400 of one of the lifestyle secondary costs that just pop 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.240 up when you move into a bigger home. And so 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.720 buying a new home can be expensive, but dude, selling 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.360 your old home can be even more expensive, right. Like 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.040 you mentioned, there's the realtory fees that you pay as 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.000 a seller, closing costically with those, oftentimes you split with 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.600 a buyer, and then on top of that paying for movers. 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:48.800 You know, we just moved a few couple blocks, and 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.600 for us it was pretty easy because we just got 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.400 a bunch of friends together through some beer into the mix, 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.240 and we threw everything into the u hau. But if 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.880 you're moving to a different neighborhood or even across town, 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.000 it's kind of tough to do that by yourself. And 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.120 as we get older, we get more responsibilities. I'm not 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.600 really wanting to move my friends around anymore like I 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:07.800 used to back in the day. Man, I don't know 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.560 about you, it was it was so easy to get 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.240 a good turnout for pizza and beer moving day back 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.800 when you were four. It's so much harder, a lot 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:18.800 harder now now that we're in our mid thirties. It's 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:20.800 so hard to get our friends to turn out for 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.440 something like that. So you really might have to depending 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.640 on what stage of life you're in and where you're at, 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:27.640 you you might have to pay for movers, and that 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.319 is definitely an added expense to consider. That's right, man. 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.200 So moving it can be expensive, but so can renovating, right, 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.800 and so potentially it can be more affordable than buying 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:37.600 if you're in the same area, and if you've seen 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.320 your values increase, you could even also tap into that 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.400 increase in value for the home for costs via say 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.080 a home equity loan or a home equity line of credit. However, 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.160 keep this in mind that renovation costs always end up 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.720 costing more than you initially think. We are learning that firsthand. 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.719 It's gonna cost you more. Yeah, things never seem to 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.360 go as planned as the contractor planned. Or as you 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.720 had planned, right, and and so that's always like the 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.000 desired goal is cool, let's put this on paper, let's 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:07.840 figure out how much is this we're going to cost. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.679 But anytime, and especially Matt, we're talking about old houses here. 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.000 You're in a nine house. Yeah, you and I both 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.200 have houses that are about a hundred years old. And 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.720 so when you start to open walls or rip open 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.200 flooring or reroute plumbing, you're talking about mega increases in 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:28.280 cost because of older systems that need updating. You might 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.920 find something like wood rot or just a system that 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.000 is completely out of date, and it might have been 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.280 fine in the current conditions for a few more years, 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.160 but once you start renovating, it's like another domino that falls. 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.160 And once you've opened a wall up, at that point 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:43.320 it has to be addressed. Yeah. Man, honestly, that's the 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.400 biggest thing that Kit and I have struggled with. Okay, 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.400 we've already got the drywall guy here. Do we need 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.240 to go ahead and maybe just dry all this as well? 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.040 And maybe we want to redo this wall or oh 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.360 the plumbers here, Gosh, doesn't make sense to go ahead 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.720 and replace the cast iron pipes that are also in 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.840 this part of the house, it's hard to draw the line. 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:59.600 And that's just one of the ways that you can 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.640 see your renovation budget continue to creep up. Yeah, and 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.960 I've never done a completely full on renovation myself, Matt, 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.200 but I've renovated entire bathrooms more than once at my 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:13.000 primary house and rental houses. And this happens then when 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.840 I replace bathrooms, I've had to replace the entire subfloor 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.120 every time, because bathrooms have water issues and get wet, 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.120 and especially over decades and decades of compounding, there's an 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.560 opening in the cock you know, along the steam of 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:27.880 your bathtub, and water starts to get in there, and 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.040 it starts to get down to the subfloor, and just 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.040 every time, not knowing it ahead of time, that's an 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.080 extra almost thousand dollar expense to replace the subfloor on 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.080 just a small bathroom. That's just one example of something 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.200 that is typically not factored in but almost always happens 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.760 as an expensive pops up. And you're gonna find that 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:47.440 if you're renovating a kitchen or a bathroom something like that, 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:51.120 those sorts of additional expenses are almost inevitably gonna pop 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.440 up for you. That's right, man, and hopefully your home 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.520 is now worth more than what you actually invested into 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.880 it with a renovation. But depending on what problems you 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.680 rent into you like, you may not, and depending if 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.560 you maybe overbuild for the neighborhood, you may not get 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.120 that money back at all. And so the value almost 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.480 never increases dollar for dollar what you put into it. 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.600 And so make sure that when you are renovating that 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.160 you're doing it for yourself and that you're not only 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.000 considering the resale value. A lot of times people think, oh, well, 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:18.840 we can get that money back when we sell it. Well, 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:20.760 first of all, you know, you may not even sell 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.400 the place, like you might end up keeping it. And 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.680 you've got this fancy tile work that you thought you 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.480 were gonna maybe get your money back on um and 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.680 now you are the one enjoying it in your master 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.680 bathroom all by yourself, just you and your significant other. 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.640 But secondly, chances are that someone isn't going to value 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.360 that that fancy tile work as much as you are. 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.200 And so whatever you're doing, make sure that you are 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.120 the one enjoying it and that you're receiving sort of 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.880 optimal value out of what you're putting into the renovation. So, Matt, 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:48.760 just a quick stat that I think we should throw 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.520 out there. This random school in the northeast called Harvard 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.200 did a study. I don't have you heard of them, 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.800 Never heard of it. Yeah, nobody's smart goes there, I 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.200 don't think. But they found that the average payback in 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.880 a home's resale value is only fifty six of the 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.760 cost of the remodel ouch ouch. That's brutal, man, And 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.000 I think most of us have watched just way too 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:13.040 much HDTV, and we've seen these numbers that are just ridiculous, 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.840 and we've seen people that are professionals at it who 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.320 sometimes lose their shirts as well. I love too at 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.720 the end of an HDTV show where they say projected 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.199 sale of this house blah blah blah blah blah, right 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.760 that they flipped. And so just know that that the 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.800 rosy outlook on an HDTV show is completely different than 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.280 the numbers that have been found in studies and in 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.120 all likelihood, what you're putting into your rento, I hope 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.439 you love it. Make sure you love because I can 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.199 almost assure you that you're not going to get the 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:42.680 money back out that you put into it. Yeah, that's right, man, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.280 Flip or Flap, Right, we're talking about more more of 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.800 the flop side. You don't watch any of those shows, really, 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.920 do you know? My mom loves him them. Yeah. Yeah, 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.240 she's super into the h G t V stuff and 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.720