Speaker 1: Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt
Speaker 1: and today or discussing whether it's better to renovate or move.
Speaker 1: All right, man, I'm really looking forward to tackling this
Speaker 1: topic today because you're in the middle of a renovation.
Speaker 1: I walked up to your house to record this evening
Speaker 1: and there are piles of lumber in your front yard.
Speaker 1: I feel like we have a lot to say. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the woods there, they just gotta haul it off. It
Speaker 1: is extra would we're gonna return it because we didn't
Speaker 1: use it? There you go, Yeah, I gotta get that
Speaker 1: money back. All right. Before we get to the topic
Speaker 1: of renovation, though, have you noticed my sweet new haircut?
Speaker 1: You look a little less shabby? I will say, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're look you're looking at sharp. Man. Well, I wanted
Speaker 1: to tell everyone that I got a free haircut, and
Speaker 1: I've been getting free haircuts for quite some time. Now.
Speaker 1: You also get free haircuts. We'll talk about that in
Speaker 1: one second. Um. But I go to this program that
Speaker 1: Supercuts runs. They retrained their stylists every couple of years
Speaker 1: or so, and so those stylists that are being retrained
Speaker 1: need to give haircuts to practice the things that they've
Speaker 1: learned that practiced their craft, right, Yeah, And so I
Speaker 1: sign up and I probably need a haircut, I don't know,
Speaker 1: every six eight weeks or so, and so I'll go
Speaker 1: just up the street from where I work and and
Speaker 1: I'll get a free haircut. And so today I got
Speaker 1: another free haircut. Looks pretty smooth, feeling fresh. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, some days are better than others
Speaker 1: when I go there. Yeah, I can assess to that
Speaker 1: because there's been some times to do or you've come
Speaker 1: back and like your your hair is trimmed next to
Speaker 1: your ears, like all the way up almost to like
Speaker 1: the top of your ear, I look a little dumb
Speaker 1: and dumberish or something like that. Oh man, Then that
Speaker 1: that's making me think of dental work. You can do
Speaker 1: the same thing with dental work, right. I remember growing
Speaker 1: up in Augusta, Georgia, and they've got a dental school
Speaker 1: there that you could go and get your teeth cleaned
Speaker 1: for free by a dental hygienists. They're practicing their craft.
Speaker 1: And what a free, awesome way to get your teeth cleaned,
Speaker 1: which might be something I know our listeners would like
Speaker 1: to hear me do because I got some flak for
Speaker 1: not going to the dentist every I don't know, six
Speaker 1: months or something whatever some folks do. Yeah, so maybe
Speaker 1: find a free place to go get your teeth clean.
Speaker 1: I will report back. But when it comes to haircuts, though, man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've cut my own hair for the past over twenty
Speaker 1: years now, like ever since I was a kid. Basically,
Speaker 1: my mom messed up one time because she used to
Speaker 1: cut my hair and she screwed it up, and I
Speaker 1: was so upset at her. I told her, I was like,
Speaker 1: You're never gonna cut my hair again, because I was
Speaker 1: an angsty preteen, I'm sure. And yeah, for the past
Speaker 1: over twenty years now, I've had a little haircutting kit
Speaker 1: and I've cut my own hair. And I've actually cut
Speaker 1: your hair too, like at the beach you have, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and what do you think? Decent? It was solid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. It was good. I would do
Speaker 1: it again. I would do it again. I would rather
Speaker 1: have you cut my hair than pay for a haircut.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that. Boom and and so I'll tell everyone.
Speaker 1: I'll add props coming from my co host. So I'll
Speaker 1: put a link in the show notes to the program there.
Speaker 1: It's nationwide and you can find a supercut center near
Speaker 1: you where they retrain people. And so if you're like
Speaker 1: me and you don't like paying for haircuts, you prefer
Speaker 1: to get it for free. And I will say that
Speaker 1: there's a slight trade off, right, I have to drive
Speaker 1: just to touch further in order to get this haircut.
Speaker 1: The second trade off is the complete feeling of insecurity
Speaker 1: that's bubbling up inside of me while my hair is
Speaker 1: being cut. It you're like, what am I gonna look
Speaker 1: like walking out of here? Just exactly the stress and
Speaker 1: it just it Also it takes quite a bit longer,
Speaker 1: I feel like, because the person that's in charge has
Speaker 1: to oversee and make sure that the person is doing
Speaker 1: it well. So it's gonna take a little bit longer
Speaker 1: to get your hair cut. Did you get grated on
Speaker 1: the spot? No, but they are correcting them as they
Speaker 1: go and pointers and whatnot, tips and tricks all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Yeah, but I found it to be
Speaker 1: worth it, and it's actually it's kind of fun. I
Speaker 1: kind of like the people there at this point. So yeah,
Speaker 1: but just word of the wise, if you're find a
Speaker 1: place near you, and if you don't know of one.
Speaker 1: Check out our show notes for for this episode and
Speaker 1: you'll you'll see the link for the article I wrote
Speaker 1: about the many places around the country where you can
Speaker 1: get a free haircut. Yeah, and I'll mention too that
Speaker 1: this isn't gonna be for everyone, right, Like, some people
Speaker 1: are gonna value having their hair cut by their stylist
Speaker 1: or someone who knows them really well and knows exactly
Speaker 1: what they like. You know, my old roommate in college,
Speaker 1: he uh was one of those guys that would pay
Speaker 1: a good bit of money to go to this nicer
Speaker 1: salon like John Edwards Style four hundred and something knowledge
Speaker 1: for hair. Yeah, not quite, but he didn't go to
Speaker 1: this hip place downtown Athens. And what he told me
Speaker 1: was that my hair is the only thing I wear
Speaker 1: every single day. If I spend uh, you know, some
Speaker 1: money on a nice bear of jeans, and I wear
Speaker 1: those almost every day, why wouldn't I spend some decent
Speaker 1: money on a haircut? Flawed logic. I don't agree that
Speaker 1: that was his approach, And why you wear a hat
Speaker 1: it's much cheaper, But I mean again that that being said,
Speaker 1: some people value having a really nice haircut, having it styled.
Speaker 1: You and I do not, even though we still want
Speaker 1: to look nice, like we've got nice hair, and I
Speaker 1: don't really care. Yeah, no, I look, I still look amazing.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, but you want to look decent. But
Speaker 1: for instance, for us, like we would rather take that
Speaker 1: money and put it towards nice craft beer completely. And
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it comes down to. I mean, for me,
Speaker 1: the thought processes, I can go spend fifteen dollars and
Speaker 1: a five dollar tip whatever it costs these days year
Speaker 1: since I this, Yeah, it's somewhere in that ballpark some
Speaker 1: really good beer for twenty bucks, and that's just kind
Speaker 1: of the trade off in my mind. That that's the
Speaker 1: way I think about it. And so yeah, for me,
Speaker 1: going to get the free haircut totally worth it. I mean,
Speaker 1: like this beer that you brought for tonight's this is
Speaker 1: a Burial beer company surf Wax, and I know that
Speaker 1: this is one of your favorite beers completely. Burial is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite breweries right now. Yeah, and in
Speaker 1: my opinion probably overall, if I'm just factoring in every
Speaker 1: single possible thing when it comes to how many good
Speaker 1: beers they make, and they're cool packaging and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I think Burials number one on my list right really, Yeah,
Speaker 1: best breweries in the Southeast, best approach to beer, best flavors.
Speaker 1: Their artwork is totally awesome too. It's kind a little apocalyptic, yeah,
Speaker 1: a little pop. It's like apocalyptic mixed with folk, which
Speaker 1: is probably why you love it, because that's sort of
Speaker 1: your jams. Some of them are like a little weird,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I kind of like the silver
Speaker 1: cans and I love the script that they use, and
Speaker 1: and surf Wax is just my go to beer right now. So, Matt,
Speaker 1: I see you taking the ship. Give me one word
Speaker 1: that you would use to describe this delightful I pa
Speaker 1: from Burial, Dude, it's great? Is great your word? Because
Speaker 1: that's not a great word. My one word is gonna
Speaker 1: be gold standard. What are your thoughts? Man? Used to
Speaker 1: love this? I p a yeah, my word. It's been
Speaker 1: a minute since I've had this, but for a long
Speaker 1: time that's all I was drinking. I felt like and
Speaker 1: my word is balanced. But Matt will get to some
Speaker 1: more tasting notes about this beer at the end of
Speaker 1: the show, but right now, let's get to the topic
Speaker 1: at hand. Is it better to renovate a home or
Speaker 1: to move. And there's a problem that a lot of
Speaker 1: people face when they find themselves bumping up against a
Speaker 1: home that feels too small, and families needs changed as
Speaker 1: they have more kids, or maybe one of the parents
Speaker 1: begins to work from home, finds themselves in need of
Speaker 1: a home office. All these sorts of changes make us
Speaker 1: start to think, if we're living in a smaller house, well, hey,
Speaker 1: do I renovate that home or do we attempt to
Speaker 1: move and find another home that that suits are needs
Speaker 1: more appropriately? And so in this episode, we we want
Speaker 1: to tackle all of the potential thoughts that go through
Speaker 1: your head and kind of help people make an informed
Speaker 1: decision as to what the better move is for their situation.
Speaker 1: And you know, for a lot of people, they think
Speaker 1: the only solution is to either sell your home or
Speaker 1: to stay and renovate, like you mentioned, but with home
Speaker 1: prices at pretty much all time highs right now, renovating
Speaker 1: might seem like that no brainers, you know, great solution,
Speaker 1: right if you're running out of space. And for me, man,
Speaker 1: I'm talking out of personal experience, because for us at
Speaker 1: our old home, we did plan to renovate. We had
Speaker 1: gotten drawings. We had dreamed of how we're going to
Speaker 1: be in the house basically forever. We started getting quotes,
Speaker 1: and through that process is when we realized that, you
Speaker 1: know what, we think it's gonna be better this time
Speaker 1: to actually move to a different home. And we had
Speaker 1: different reasons for that. But then now a few years later,
Speaker 1: we're now obviously renovating our home and gosh, man, I
Speaker 1: feel like this is something that Kate and I have
Speaker 1: talked about NonStop for the past several years. It's just
Speaker 1: something that's been on our minds where we're kind of
Speaker 1: always weighing the pros and cons Should we move, should
Speaker 1: we stay where we are and renovate to accommodate for
Speaker 1: a growing family? And you know, I work from home,
Speaker 1: like you mentioned having a home office. There's us a
Speaker 1: lot to consider, and yeah, we're gonna unpack all that
Speaker 1: this episode. And you moved just around the corner, literally
Speaker 1: like three or four blocks, right from where you were
Speaker 1: to where you are now. And so for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, moving can often mean moving three or four
Speaker 1: miles or further, and that compounds the difficulty of that decision.
Speaker 1: But I will say too, on top of it, the
Speaker 1: housing market in the particulars of where the housing market
Speaker 1: is at the current moment in time kind of compounds
Speaker 1: of difficulty of a decision like that as well, because
Speaker 1: if you're talking about a few years ago, Matt, when
Speaker 1: you bought this home, when you made the decision to
Speaker 1: move as opposed to renovate, it actually made a little
Speaker 1: bit more sense to move, just because housing prices were
Speaker 1: a little bit lower, mortgage interest rates were still incredibly
Speaker 1: low all time lows. Yeah, and so the current housing
Speaker 1: market actually can lend itself to to make the decision
Speaker 1: towards renovating a little bit easier, even with renovating costs
Speaker 1: having gone higher, because hiring a contractor has gotten more expensive,
Speaker 1: right because of so many building projects happening around the country. Man,
Speaker 1: That's definitely true. When we contacted our contractor last year,
Speaker 1: he basically said, in you know, over ten years, this
Speaker 1: is the busiest that he has ever been. And so
Speaker 1: to get his subs lined up and to try to
Speaker 1: maintain a you know, a specific tight schedule, he forewarned
Speaker 1: me that, hey, this is gonna be a little bit tough,
Speaker 1: but you know that he would do the best he could.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I like what you said, how given that
Speaker 1: certain market conditions might favor one over the other. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so we are not necessarily going to cover all
Speaker 1: the current market conditions that make it. We're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about kind of a generalized overview of how you should
Speaker 1: make this decision. But just remember that it completely depends
Speaker 1: on exactly what's happening in the housing market. And four
Speaker 1: or five years ago it made sense in so many
Speaker 1: more cases to move and to buy another home as
Speaker 1: opposed to renovate the current home you're in. But right now,
Speaker 1: with like Matt said, prices close to all time highs,
Speaker 1: the opposite is more likely true in your case, and
Speaker 1: renovating actually makes more sense for most people right now.
Speaker 1: And also I wanted to mention as well that I mean,
Speaker 1: you and I are the cheap guys. We're not cheap,
Speaker 1: we're frugal, right, but we can cut each other's hair
Speaker 1: if for your haircuts. And it almost sounds kind of
Speaker 1: funny to talk about how like, Okay, people have to
Speaker 1: either move and sell your house or you have to
Speaker 1: renovate and spend a ton of money that way, but
Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning challenge yourself to do neither, Like how
Speaker 1: could you use your space that you currently have in
Speaker 1: a different way. Maybe you could repurpose a formal dining
Speaker 1: room that you never use into a play space or
Speaker 1: a den for your kids. Look at the different spaces
Speaker 1: in your home a little more critically. There's so much
Speaker 1: that you can do if you spend a couple hundred bucks,
Speaker 1: say at Ikea, and fix up your storage solutions in
Speaker 1: order to just make your space a lot more livable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you're adding on because you want a guest
Speaker 1: bedroom in your house, we'll think about how much money
Speaker 1: that could potentially cost, and think about at the same time,
Speaker 1: what if you offered to pay for a hotel room
Speaker 1: a couple of times a year for people that come
Speaker 1: into town to stay with you. That could actually, in
Speaker 1: a long run, end up costing you so much less.
Speaker 1: And so just yeah, I think a little bit outside
Speaker 1: the box when it comes to this question of renovating
Speaker 1: or moving. We think this is an important topic to
Speaker 1: cover because there are so many people face with this question. But,
Speaker 1: like Matt said, little challenge delaying this decision a little
Speaker 1: bit and forcing yourself to live, you know, within a
Speaker 1: certain space while you save the cash too. For a
Speaker 1: potential renovation or move right is a worthwhile exercise, and
Speaker 1: at the same time, you might find that with a
Speaker 1: few small changes and tweaks to your current layout, you
Speaker 1: can easily and happily live inside of the space that
Speaker 1: you're currently inhabiting. Yeah, and cost is obviously one of
Speaker 1: the biggest things to consider when you're debating between renovating
Speaker 1: or moving. And so we're gonna get to that right
Speaker 1: after the break, all right, Jeel, Costs gonna kick it off, Yeah, Matt,
Speaker 1: the costs of moving that purchasing a new home. The
Speaker 1: costs don't end at the closing table. And don't get
Speaker 1: me wrong, there are a lot of costs of the
Speaker 1: closing table right. There are agency fees on both sides
Speaker 1: of of selling and buying. If you are moving, their
Speaker 1: closing costs associated with that, you'll likely be paying more interest,
Speaker 1: a higher interest rate on your new loan to pending on.
Speaker 1: You know when you bought the house you're currently in
Speaker 1: and what your current mortgage rade is. But on top
Speaker 1: of that, you're talking about new paint, new decor, furniture
Speaker 1: outfitting the new space. So buying a new home can
Speaker 1: be expensive, and especially if you're in this quandary of
Speaker 1: renovating verse buying. You're looking at buying a bigger home,
Speaker 1: you're likely taking on a bigger obligation altogether, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna need to buy more stuff because all your old
Speaker 1: stuff just isn't gonna fill out this new home quite
Speaker 1: as well. Yes, right man. We talked about that in
Speaker 1: the Everything Costs More Than You Think episode. That's sort
Speaker 1: of one of the lifestyle secondary costs that just pop
Speaker 1: up when you move into a bigger home. And so
Speaker 1: buying a new home can be expensive, but dude, selling
Speaker 1: your old home can be even more expensive, right. Like
Speaker 1: you mentioned, there's the realtory fees that you pay as
Speaker 1: a seller, closing costically with those, oftentimes you split with
Speaker 1: a buyer, and then on top of that paying for movers.
Speaker 1: You know, we just moved a few couple blocks, and
Speaker 1: for us it was pretty easy because we just got
Speaker 1: a bunch of friends together through some beer into the mix,
Speaker 1: and we threw everything into the u hau. But if
Speaker 1: you're moving to a different neighborhood or even across town,
Speaker 1: it's kind of tough to do that by yourself. And
Speaker 1: as we get older, we get more responsibilities. I'm not
Speaker 1: really wanting to move my friends around anymore like I
Speaker 1: used to back in the day. Man, I don't know
Speaker 1: about you, it was it was so easy to get
Speaker 1: a good turnout for pizza and beer moving day back
Speaker 1: when you were four. It's so much harder, a lot
Speaker 1: harder now now that we're in our mid thirties. It's
Speaker 1: so hard to get our friends to turn out for
Speaker 1: something like that. So you really might have to depending
Speaker 1: on what stage of life you're in and where you're at,
Speaker 1: you you might have to pay for movers, and that
Speaker 1: is definitely an added expense to consider. That's right, man.
Speaker 1: So moving it can be expensive, but so can renovating, right,
Speaker 1: and so potentially it can be more affordable than buying
Speaker 1: if you're in the same area, and if you've seen
Speaker 1: your values increase, you could even also tap into that
Speaker 1: increase in value for the home for costs via say
Speaker 1: a home equity loan or a home equity line of credit. However,
Speaker 1: keep this in mind that renovation costs always end up
Speaker 1: costing more than you initially think. We are learning that firsthand.
Speaker 1: It's gonna cost you more. Yeah, things never seem to
Speaker 1: go as planned as the contractor planned. Or as you
Speaker 1: had planned, right, and and so that's always like the
Speaker 1: desired goal is cool, let's put this on paper, let's
Speaker 1: figure out how much is this we're going to cost.
Speaker 1: But anytime, and especially Matt, we're talking about old houses here.
Speaker 1: You're in a nine house. Yeah, you and I both
Speaker 1: have houses that are about a hundred years old. And
Speaker 1: so when you start to open walls or rip open
Speaker 1: flooring or reroute plumbing, you're talking about mega increases in
Speaker 1: cost because of older systems that need updating. You might
Speaker 1: find something like wood rot or just a system that
Speaker 1: is completely out of date, and it might have been
Speaker 1: fine in the current conditions for a few more years,
Speaker 1: but once you start renovating, it's like another domino that falls.
Speaker 1: And once you've opened a wall up, at that point
Speaker 1: it has to be addressed. Yeah. Man, honestly, that's the
Speaker 1: biggest thing that Kit and I have struggled with. Okay,
Speaker 1: we've already got the drywall guy here. Do we need
Speaker 1: to go ahead and maybe just dry all this as well?
Speaker 1: And maybe we want to redo this wall or oh
Speaker 1: the plumbers here, Gosh, doesn't make sense to go ahead
Speaker 1: and replace the cast iron pipes that are also in
Speaker 1: this part of the house, it's hard to draw the line.
Speaker 1: And that's just one of the ways that you can
Speaker 1: see your renovation budget continue to creep up. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I've never done a completely full on renovation myself, Matt,
Speaker 1: but I've renovated entire bathrooms more than once at my
Speaker 1: primary house and rental houses. And this happens then when
Speaker 1: I replace bathrooms, I've had to replace the entire subfloor
Speaker 1: every time, because bathrooms have water issues and get wet,
Speaker 1: and especially over decades and decades of compounding, there's an
Speaker 1: opening in the cock you know, along the steam of
Speaker 1: your bathtub, and water starts to get in there, and
Speaker 1: it starts to get down to the subfloor, and just
Speaker 1: every time, not knowing it ahead of time, that's an
Speaker 1: extra almost thousand dollar expense to replace the subfloor on
Speaker 1: just a small bathroom. That's just one example of something
Speaker 1: that is typically not factored in but almost always happens
Speaker 1: as an expensive pops up. And you're gonna find that
Speaker 1: if you're renovating a kitchen or a bathroom something like that,
Speaker 1: those sorts of additional expenses are almost inevitably gonna pop
Speaker 1: up for you. That's right, man, and hopefully your home
Speaker 1: is now worth more than what you actually invested into
Speaker 1: it with a renovation. But depending on what problems you
Speaker 1: rent into you like, you may not, and depending if
Speaker 1: you maybe overbuild for the neighborhood, you may not get
Speaker 1: that money back at all. And so the value almost
Speaker 1: never increases dollar for dollar what you put into it.
Speaker 1: And so make sure that when you are renovating that
Speaker 1: you're doing it for yourself and that you're not only
Speaker 1: considering the resale value. A lot of times people think, oh, well,
Speaker 1: we can get that money back when we sell it. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, you know, you may not even sell
Speaker 1: the place, like you might end up keeping it. And
Speaker 1: you've got this fancy tile work that you thought you
Speaker 1: were gonna maybe get your money back on um and
Speaker 1: now you are the one enjoying it in your master
Speaker 1: bathroom all by yourself, just you and your significant other.
Speaker 1: But secondly, chances are that someone isn't going to value
Speaker 1: that that fancy tile work as much as you are.
Speaker 1: And so whatever you're doing, make sure that you are
Speaker 1: the one enjoying it and that you're receiving sort of
Speaker 1: optimal value out of what you're putting into the renovation. So, Matt,
Speaker 1: just a quick stat that I think we should throw
Speaker 1: out there. This random school in the northeast called Harvard
Speaker 1: did a study. I don't have you heard of them,
Speaker 1: Never heard of it. Yeah, nobody's smart goes there, I
Speaker 1: don't think. But they found that the average payback in
Speaker 1: a home's resale value is only fifty six of the
Speaker 1: cost of the remodel ouch ouch. That's brutal, man, And
Speaker 1: I think most of us have watched just way too
Speaker 1: much HDTV, and we've seen these numbers that are just ridiculous,
Speaker 1: and we've seen people that are professionals at it who
Speaker 1: sometimes lose their shirts as well. I love too at
Speaker 1: the end of an HDTV show where they say projected
Speaker 1: sale of this house blah blah blah blah blah, right
Speaker 1: that they flipped. And so just know that that the
Speaker 1: rosy outlook on an HDTV show is completely different than
Speaker 1: the numbers that have been found in studies and in
Speaker 1: all likelihood, what you're putting into your rento, I hope
Speaker 1: you love it. Make sure you love because I can
Speaker 1: almost assure you that you're not going to get the
Speaker 1: money back out that you put into it. Yeah, that's right, man,
Speaker 1: Flip or Flap, Right, we're talking about more more of
Speaker 1: the flop side. You don't watch any of those shows, really,
Speaker 1: do you know? My mom loves him them. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's super into the h G t V stuff and
Speaker 1: every time I'm over there we'll watch a few minutes together.
Speaker 1: But yeah, my in laws love it as well, to
Speaker 1: watch the different ones where they are like on an
Speaker 1: island or it's like flipper Flop on the island or
Speaker 1: beach side flipper Flap. There's like all these different versions
Speaker 1: of it and it's interesting. But at the same time, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's made for TV. It's not reality. And just make
Speaker 1: sure you keep that in mind when it comes to
Speaker 1: what you're spending on your renovation. And as someone who
Speaker 1: has hired his own contractors, hired people to work on
Speaker 1: many renovation projects at my homes, I feel like HTTV
Speaker 1: lacks a lot of realism. Oh yeah, all right, man,
Speaker 1: So that was cost when it comes to renovating versus moving.
Speaker 1: Now we're gonna talk about location. And so you know,
Speaker 1: when you move, a lot of times that comes with
Speaker 1: some excitement that comes with finding a new neighborhood. You
Speaker 1: get to start fresh. There's new relationships. There are new
Speaker 1: things like your surroundings, like new parks and things like that. Dude, However,
Speaker 1: it's kind of sad at the same time too, Right,
Speaker 1: you're having to uproot, You're breaking off a lot of
Speaker 1: relationships with neighbors in the community that you've who knows
Speaker 1: how long you've lived there, hopefully for at least five years.
Speaker 1: But it's sort of a sad time as well. And
Speaker 1: so even though it might make sense from a number standpoint,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of downsides to to moving as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's always a tough decision if you especially if you
Speaker 1: love where you currently live and you're trying to figure
Speaker 1: out whether you should renovate this house. I mean, obviously,
Speaker 1: if you're thinking about renovating, then there's some attachment at
Speaker 1: the house, maybe just the actual physical house or the
Speaker 1: neighborhood or the community that you're in, and moving, you know,
Speaker 1: might seem a little sad. So, like you said at
Speaker 1: the beginning, Matt, that challenge to kind of stay put.
Speaker 1: You know, if you do love where you're at in
Speaker 1: the house, maybe you just feel like you're bursting out.
Speaker 1: That seems a little bit. If you can find ways
Speaker 1: to kind of stay put that can help you to
Speaker 1: stay in the house that you love and in a
Speaker 1: community that you love. Man, However, there are you know, again,
Speaker 1: some benefits when it comes to moving, Like you could
Speaker 1: potentially move closer to your work. Maybe you've got a
Speaker 1: new job since you purchase your last home, so you
Speaker 1: could save time on commuting. Maybe since then as well,
Speaker 1: you've got kids, and so now you're considering the schools,
Speaker 1: and there might be some better schools in the area
Speaker 1: that you're looking to buy. These are things that might
Speaker 1: silt the scales for or against. Again when it comes
Speaker 1: to location, if you renovate, well, obviously you get to
Speaker 1: stay put. If you love where you are, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, Matt, but I feel
Speaker 1: like even in our neighborhood or we live, even just
Speaker 1: moving a few blocks can mean a big difference. And
Speaker 1: I'm so tight with my neighbors, like we get together
Speaker 1: a lot, and I love not just our neighborhood, but
Speaker 1: I love our block. I love the people that live
Speaker 1: across from me and on the side of me. And
Speaker 1: if I move three blocks to to go to a
Speaker 1: bigger house, that just changes the vibe of how I
Speaker 1: live truly, and so that's the kind of thing that
Speaker 1: maybe that doesn't factor into your decision nearly as much,
Speaker 1: but general location and specific location are just a really
Speaker 1: important thing for you to think through before you make
Speaker 1: this decision, all right, Joel, So that was location. Next,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about dust boxes and life upheaval. It's
Speaker 1: a pretty serious event, and you might be living out
Speaker 1: of boxes maybe for a little bit, maybe a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, but generally speaking, you're able to quickly sort
Speaker 1: of rip the bandit off right and make the change
Speaker 1: all at once. It's a relatively quick thing and you
Speaker 1: can just kind of move on with life. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: if you renovate, depending on the size and scope of
Speaker 1: the renovation, right, it can take months, potentially like half
Speaker 1: a year. And so if you're planning to live through
Speaker 1: the rento out like you are, you can speak to this.
Speaker 1: You also might be living without a kitchen or a
Speaker 1: second right for potentially months. And I don't know about you,
Speaker 1: but I still like recording in your dining room slash kitchen.
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of fun. You know. For us,
Speaker 1: we've made it work, and that's something that we knew
Speaker 1: going into it. Ahead of time, right, Like we sort
Speaker 1: of mapped out mentally like what is this going to
Speaker 1: do to us? What is this gonna do with our family?
Speaker 1: What is this gonna do to our day to day
Speaker 1: and sort of mentally preparing for that. We knew that, Okay,
Speaker 1: we can handle that, and it hasn't been too bad.
Speaker 1: But what about the dust and the noise? How about
Speaker 1: those things been, especially with contractors coming in and out.
Speaker 1: How has that affected like your kids? Yeah, so you know, honestly,
Speaker 1: it hasn't affected them at all because they're young and
Speaker 1: can sleep through pretty much anything when it comes to naps.
Speaker 1: But dude, for me, it's just been such a distraction.
Speaker 1: So I work from home, and I sit in my
Speaker 1: office at the front of the house, and they're doing
Speaker 1: the work on the back of the house. But even still,
Speaker 1: I can hear that stuff's going on, even with my earplugs.
Speaker 1: And I've gotten used to working with these foam earplugs
Speaker 1: and I roll them up and stick in my ears
Speaker 1: so I can concentrate. But I they'll know they're back
Speaker 1: there because I can feel the floors shake sometimes if
Speaker 1: they're doing something big. That's something you need to prepare for,
Speaker 1: not everyone is cut out for sort of living in
Speaker 1: a dusty, sort of dirty house, because a renovation is
Speaker 1: just dirty work, like dust gets everywhere, drywall dust. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, don't even get me started. Man, We're still
Speaker 1: finding that stuff and like nooks and crannies, and so
Speaker 1: I know for a lot of people that that just
Speaker 1: wouldn't fly. Yeah, if you're a clean freak, renovation might
Speaker 1: not be for you. And Matt, I wanted to mention
Speaker 1: that this is actually gonna be a two part series.
Speaker 1: Next week on the show, we're gonna talk about if
Speaker 1: you do decide to renovate, the steps you need to
Speaker 1: take because right now we're kind of like pros and cons,
Speaker 1: And if you say I'm all in for renovation, well,
Speaker 1: we want to make sure that you know how to
Speaker 1: find a contractor and no know how to make sure
Speaker 1: you're not overpaying for that renovation. So we'll get into
Speaker 1: that next week. But right after the break, Matt, we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about one thing that you can definitely get
Speaker 1: out of a renovation that you can never get out
Speaker 1: of a move. Al Right, Joel, Now let's talk about
Speaker 1: design and utility. Like you hinted ats when you renovate
Speaker 1: a home and you're customizing your own space. You get
Speaker 1: to choose the layout and how the new space will
Speaker 1: function for you and your family. You get to choose
Speaker 1: how many maybe bes and bass that you want, and
Speaker 1: you get to decide the finishes and something about it too.
Speaker 1: That's just really hard to quantify, though, is just how
Speaker 1: that's rewarding. And so when you live in a space
Speaker 1: for a few years, you start dreaming and you start thinking,
Speaker 1: how could this work better for us? You know, what
Speaker 1: if we did this, or what if this wall wasn't
Speaker 1: here and instead this connected these two spaces and then
Speaker 1: we could sit here and we could see the kids
Speaker 1: over there. You start having these sort of dreams and
Speaker 1: you start painting a picture and when you start to
Speaker 1: see that come to fruition in reality, like in three
Speaker 1: D in real life. Right, there's something about that that's
Speaker 1: just incredibly rewarding, Like it came from your brain and
Speaker 1: then you sort of concepted it out and then you
Speaker 1: start to see it form around you. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: tell you what that is just incredibly rewarding. It's hard
Speaker 1: to sort of pinpoint what that is other than just
Speaker 1: creating something that's cool and fun. That also costs a
Speaker 1: lot of money. So yeah, that's not something that you
Speaker 1: get when you are going to buy a new house. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can create the exact layout flow in space design
Speaker 1: that you want in a rento, right, you can say
Speaker 1: I want a little dungeon for my children over here,
Speaker 1: and then it comes to fruition. But you know what,
Speaker 1: there's no house on the market that has a dungeon
Speaker 1: for kids that I know of. So the only way
Speaker 1: that I can get that where I can put my
Speaker 1: kids when they're bad too far too long, that some
Speaker 1: specific criteria. Exactly. That's the kind of thing you can
Speaker 1: create when you're renovating, but it doesn't exist on the
Speaker 1: market right when you're moving. Yeah, Matt, And for instance,
Speaker 1: in your renovation, you've been able to do things exactly
Speaker 1: the way that you want them, with the exact finishes
Speaker 1: and layout that you desired, and to go on the
Speaker 1: open market and to look at houses listed in the
Speaker 1: same area that have those specific requirements built in man,
Speaker 1: it's just so much harder to find. And on top
Speaker 1: of that, certain specific things that people can build into
Speaker 1: a renovation. People often decide to renovate as opposed to
Speaker 1: move because there are certain things that they say over
Speaker 1: when it comes to the final way that their house
Speaker 1: looks that they just couldn't find on the open market.
Speaker 1: So maybe one of those things is a spot for
Speaker 1: an aging parent where they kind of feel like they
Speaker 1: have their own space inside of the same house. And
Speaker 1: that sort of multi generational housing can be hard to
Speaker 1: come by, so you feel like you have to renovate
Speaker 1: in order to get it exactly like you want. And
Speaker 1: that's definitely one check in the box in favor of
Speaker 1: renovating is supposed to moving, that's right, and with moving
Speaker 1: as well, when you are paying sort of top dollar
Speaker 1: for a finished home, there are things that you are
Speaker 1: paying for it that you don't value, but that are
Speaker 1: there because that's what they had to do to get
Speaker 1: it to sort of market show ability level. Like they
Speaker 1: were told by the realtor that, oh, you've got to
Speaker 1: have these kind of countertops. Oh, obviously you've got to
Speaker 1: get the grante, Oh this needs to be this color,
Speaker 1: you need to have this sort of light fixture. And
Speaker 1: you bought the house because it was in the neighborhood
Speaker 1: that you liked, and it was on the block that
Speaker 1: you liked, but maybe you didn't like all those things,
Speaker 1: all those finishes that they chose. But fact is, you're
Speaker 1: still paying for the finishes, regardless if you value them
Speaker 1: or not. I know sometimes when I see houses go
Speaker 1: up for sale in our neighborhood, I'm always looking. I'm
Speaker 1: always interested, because you know, as a real estate investor,
Speaker 1: you're just constantly looking at houses. And nothing pains me
Speaker 1: more than to see a house go up for sale
Speaker 1: that has just been completely gutted and refinished and I
Speaker 1: don't like any of the finishes. It's kind of sad.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I don't like the layout and I don't
Speaker 1: like the finishing choices, and I'm just like, hopefully somebody's
Speaker 1: gonna like this, but I would be super bummed if
Speaker 1: it was in this perfect location. It was the kind
Speaker 1: of house that I wanted, but a lot of nice
Speaker 1: finishes that just weren't to my taste. Yeah, exactly. And
Speaker 1: another thing that's really important a factor in when you're
Speaker 1: talking about renovating or moving is the stress level. Moving
Speaker 1: has its own stressors. I think we think about renovation
Speaker 1: as being the most stressful option in this case, and
Speaker 1: I think that's probably true, but moving does have its
Speaker 1: stressors as well, So if you're trying to get financing,
Speaker 1: find a new home, and close all within the same
Speaker 1: time period, that can be really difficult. You're looking to
Speaker 1: get your old home ready for listening, you're talking about cleaning, painting,
Speaker 1: getting that stuff up to snuff so you can entice buyers.
Speaker 1: Then you have to accept offers and clothes as well
Speaker 1: as shopping for another house and closing on that. There's
Speaker 1: gonna be some stress. The great is, in all likelihood
Speaker 1: you're moving into a home that's closer to being turnkey
Speaker 1: or or you probably wouldn't be making that decision, right.
Speaker 1: But but let's just be clear that upfront, the moving
Speaker 1: is gonna involve a lot of stress, even though it
Speaker 1: might not be quite as much as doing a full renovation. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I know, I've seen that selling and then moving into
Speaker 1: a new home just has like the same stress level
Speaker 1: as like losing a loved one, like the death of
Speaker 1: someone that you really love, and that's just terrible. And
Speaker 1: like you said, though, renovating can be extremely stressful, right,
Speaker 1: having to constantly deal with contractors and then the noise,
Speaker 1: like we talked about earlier, it just takes this toll.
Speaker 1: It's less intense than moving. But when you spread that
Speaker 1: out over months and months, and then if you've got
Speaker 1: a big renovation, right, if you're renovating down to the studs,
Speaker 1: it can even take close to a year. Right. Could
Speaker 1: you imagine a full year of basically a part time job,
Speaker 1: which is typically what it is when you're renovating at home, Well,
Speaker 1: at that point in time, Matt. Two, if you're doing
Speaker 1: that much renovation, usually you're forced to almost do both
Speaker 1: of these things because you have to move out for
Speaker 1: a certain period of time and live somewhere else. And
Speaker 1: that can be a pain, not only financially but emotionally.
Speaker 1: And it's difficult because depending on where you're living while
Speaker 1: the renovation is occurring, it's hard to go check on
Speaker 1: the progress as often as you like. And so that's
Speaker 1: another thing to factor in. Two. Can you live through
Speaker 1: the renovation being in the house that you're in And
Speaker 1: if not, that just throws a whole other wrench into everything.
Speaker 1: I mean, and finding that sort of temporary housing, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's a definite reality, especially if you're doing a huge renovation.
Speaker 1: It's going to keep in mind as well though that's
Speaker 1: something that could also happen if you're moving right, So
Speaker 1: say you go in our contract in your house, you
Speaker 1: get a great offer, you gotta move, but you don't
Speaker 1: have a new place yet, you're gonna have to end
Speaker 1: up moving twice, which totally sucks as well. But again,
Speaker 1: so renovating is crazy stressful. Um And then also keep
Speaker 1: in mind too, you might think it might only take
Speaker 1: six months, but renovating always ends up taking longer than
Speaker 1: you think it's gonna take because there are just a
Speaker 1: little hiccups. There's additional unforeseen problems that arise, and so
Speaker 1: expect some delays. Also, something else that adds to all
Speaker 1: the stress man is what we call decision fatigue. That's
Speaker 1: what we've made like ends of thousands of decisions already
Speaker 1: up until this point, and we're not even totally done yet.
Speaker 1: Like literally today I called up Kate. She was out
Speaker 1: to lunch and because there's a question regarding regarding the
Speaker 1: shoe molding, like do you want a quarta around or
Speaker 1: do you want shoe molding, because the contractor asked me,
Speaker 1: and I defer to Kate on a lot of things.
Speaker 1: And it's just a little call that you have to make.
Speaker 1: It's not a huge deal, but you multiply that no joke,
Speaker 1: by hundreds and hundreds of decisions. Yeah, last time I
Speaker 1: was over here, you guys were discussing a notch in
Speaker 1: the in the in the base molding, right, So it's
Speaker 1: one of those things that Yeah, there's like there literally
Speaker 1: are potentially thousands of decisions that you have to make
Speaker 1: like that that do wear on you overtime. You think
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be the fun ones like a quick
Speaker 1: light fixture or a new toilet, but those decisions add up,
Speaker 1: they compound, and they just become annoying after a while. Right,
Speaker 1: only is a toilet decision exciting to you? No, seriously,
Speaker 1: that's a benefit right of renovating a home, is that
Speaker 1: you do get to make these decisions, you get to customize.
Speaker 1: But like you said, after a while, it's just man,
Speaker 1: it's taxing and it wears on you, and in the end,
Speaker 1: it just adds to the stress. So, Matt, for people
Speaker 1: that are weighing this decision, there are three filters that
Speaker 1: you need to run this potential decision through, So let's
Speaker 1: go through those real quick. First is to consider your
Speaker 1: options and run the numbers. Compare what buying a new
Speaker 1: house might cost you versus renovating. Don't sugarcoat these numbers.
Speaker 1: Look at a quote from a contractor and add and
Speaker 1: also tap on to the length of time that the
Speaker 1: contractor says that this renovation will take. At the same time,
Speaker 1: when you're looking at buying a new home, factor in
Speaker 1: the increased costs of a higher mortgage, interest rate, property taxes,
Speaker 1: heating and cooling, potential furniture acquisition, all of those things. Right,
Speaker 1: you want to factor in all those things. Run the
Speaker 1: numbers so that you know what you're getting into before
Speaker 1: you jump in with both feet. I like what you
Speaker 1: said about not sugarcoating it, because in the end, you're
Speaker 1: just sort of tricking yourself. Right in the end, you
Speaker 1: are the one that's gonna have to pay the cost.
Speaker 1: You're the one that's gonna have to be delayed, or
Speaker 1: you're the one that's going to be affected by that timeline,
Speaker 1: right like that time extended time frame. And so you
Speaker 1: owe it to yourself to be honest with your self.
Speaker 1: And then filter number two. These things are harder to quantify,
Speaker 1: but consider the intangibles as well. It's a lot tougher.
Speaker 1: The sort of plug you know your family or friends parks,
Speaker 1: even likability like that's something that dude, you and I
Speaker 1: really care about. It's hard to plug this sort of
Speaker 1: things into a spreadsheet and decide, okay, the computer says yes,
Speaker 1: Like these are things that you have to make judgment
Speaker 1: calls on. These are things that you have to sort
Speaker 1: of make a value judgment on, and that's a lot
Speaker 1: harder to do. But I would say that these are
Speaker 1: just as, if not more important than just looking at
Speaker 1: the numbers, because what we're talking about here is your
Speaker 1: quality of life. And in the end, it doesn't really
Speaker 1: matter if you ended up paying a little bit less
Speaker 1: because you moved, or maybe you saved a buck because
Speaker 1: you ended up renovating. But if you're not happy with
Speaker 1: where you are, then what's the point of it? Yea.
Speaker 1: It makes me think about when my parents were moving
Speaker 1: a few years back, and they were talking about moving
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes further north of where they were, and
Speaker 1: we're already about thirty minutes apart, and with traffic in
Speaker 1: the city of Atlanta, you don't know, if you've heard,
Speaker 1: it's pretty bad, it's pretty stinking rough. And so I
Speaker 1: we had to the discussion, I'm like, listen, if you
Speaker 1: move another twenty minutes north, We're just not going to
Speaker 1: see you as much, and that's gonna suck. Like, we
Speaker 1: don't want to not see you as much. We love
Speaker 1: hanging out with you, guys, and and so that was
Speaker 1: just something that I wanted them to make sure they
Speaker 1: factored in that if they moved twenty minutes further, my
Speaker 1: niecean Leaf might not have enough charge to get us there. Right,
Speaker 1: so I don't have enough charge exactly, I might need
Speaker 1: to get told the rest of the way up. And
Speaker 1: filter Number three, Matt, that people need to consider is that, ultimately,
Speaker 1: if you're picky, renovation might be the only way to
Speaker 1: get what you want. And I've heard this from so
Speaker 1: many people that that's why they went down the path
Speaker 1: of renovation. Even though it was a huge pain, it
Speaker 1: took longer, it cost more, blah blah blah, they decided
Speaker 1: to renovate because that's the only way to get what
Speaker 1: they want. And so just think about how picky you are,
Speaker 1: whether the options that you want in a house actually exist.
Speaker 1: You obviously want to make sure you have the financial
Speaker 1: ability to afford either one of these choices, but you
Speaker 1: also want to make sure that you're making a choice
Speaker 1: that's gonna allow you to be comfortable in the place
Speaker 1: that you're living over a long period of time, because,
Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier, transaction cost and buying and selling
Speaker 1: homes can crush you. And so you just want to
Speaker 1: make sure that you're making the right decision up front
Speaker 1: so you're not backpedaling a few months down the road. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's definitely worth making sure that you know yourself and
Speaker 1: to know whether or not you're going to ultimately be
Speaker 1: happy with that decision for sure. Did you put that
Speaker 1: last one in there about being picky? Did you add
Speaker 1: that one because of me? Because you know I'm picky.
Speaker 1: You are picky, But honestly, if I was doing a renovation,
Speaker 1: I would be too. And I haven't ever done a
Speaker 1: major renovation on a house that I lived in, and
Speaker 1: that's partly because I just don't think I could handle it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't handle the stress level. I couldn't handle the
Speaker 1: people being up in my grill to that. Like I
Speaker 1: can handle a one bathroom, right, I can do that,
Speaker 1: But this whole process, I think it'd be too much
Speaker 1: for me. So for me, just knowing myself, I would
Speaker 1: have to be just really picky about the location and
Speaker 1: find a house that was close by if I really
Speaker 1: needed something different. I just don't think I could handle mentally,
Speaker 1: physically all that stuff. I couldn't handle a complete blow
Speaker 1: out renovation to my house. Dude, I'm actually realizing this now,
Speaker 1: but I think, uh so previously we've purchased and renovated
Speaker 1: and sold at home right as an invest and I
Speaker 1: think kind of going through that once that was the
Speaker 1: first time we've ever done that, But going through that
Speaker 1: has prepared us to understand all that goes into a
Speaker 1: renovation like this, and we kind of got our feet wet,
Speaker 1: I guess with that one a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: and I think that's what it helped us along and
Speaker 1: made this renovation on our own home less stressful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's actually really could. And then the first one that
Speaker 1: you did didn't occur while you were living in it, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that helps a lot. But yeah, I think you have
Speaker 1: to know yourself to a certain degree, and I know
Speaker 1: myself well enough to know what I can handle, right, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I feel like you could
Speaker 1: handle it. Yeah, I think we could handle it, but
Speaker 1: just not something I'm interested in, right. All right, let's
Speaker 1: get back to the beer, Matt, we're drinking Burial Beer
Speaker 1: Company Surf Flax India pale Ale. In my opinion, this
Speaker 1: is just one of the most delightful beers around. And
Speaker 1: the word I chose to describe this beer was balanced.
Speaker 1: And that's because, man, there's so many I p a
Speaker 1: s right now are either like hyper juicy hazy, mega
Speaker 1: hot bombs, and some of the other ones are these
Speaker 1: run of the middle, old school I p s. And
Speaker 1: I feel like Surf Flax kind of sits right there
Speaker 1: in the middle as this perfect beer that's just incredibly
Speaker 1: well balanced. It's not super multi, the hops really shine,
Speaker 1: but it's also not over the top too sweet. It
Speaker 1: really seems to shadow the middle really nicely. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I would have to completely agree with you. I called
Speaker 1: it the gold standard because I feel like it really
Speaker 1: is just like the quintessential gold standard, because I feel
Speaker 1: like that almost any beer can sort of be measured
Speaker 1: up to this beer, right, whether it is the sort
Speaker 1: of New England style or the West Coast, because it
Speaker 1: is balanced, like you said, when you pour, it doesn't
Speaker 1: pour super hazy, doesn't just look like orange juice. It's
Speaker 1: got a nice kind of golden character to it, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just a good, all around awesome I p a you,
Speaker 1: and I would recommend Burials Surf Wax. They're out of Asheville,
Speaker 1: North Carolina, which is one of our favorite beer cities
Speaker 1: in the country. And thank you for for bringing this
Speaker 1: one tonight. Man, No problem, buddy, All right, Matt, let's
Speaker 1: move on to the final thoughts. When people are considering
Speaker 1: whether it's better to renovate or move, it's really important
Speaker 1: to factor in the costs. Right. Our show is called
Speaker 1: How to Money, and we want people to think about
Speaker 1: their personal finances, and the costs associated with moving and
Speaker 1: renovating are both huge, and so it's crucial to make
Speaker 1: a list of all the potential costs for either option
Speaker 1: before you make a decision. And I know it sounds weird,
Speaker 1: but it's really important too at the same time to
Speaker 1: factor in potential unexpected costs because those can radically transform
Speaker 1: what decision you actually decided to make. And aside from
Speaker 1: the cost there are other factors that you want to
Speaker 1: consider that don't cost money, things like location, the amount
Speaker 1: of dust, and sort of life upheaval that will happen,
Speaker 1: you know, were you to move versus renovating. The design
Speaker 1: and utility that you would get out of the space
Speaker 1: if you were to renovate versus moving, And then obviously
Speaker 1: stress like either one of these are going to be stressful,
Speaker 1: But just keep in mind the sort of type of
Speaker 1: stress that you're willing to sign yourself up for. Moving
Speaker 1: it's a quick, sort of maybe thirty day to sixty
Speaker 1: day stressful period of time, versus renovating, which could be
Speaker 1: a six to twelve month long period of stress in
Speaker 1: your life. Not to mention also that personal space that
Speaker 1: your contractor might be getting all up in if you
Speaker 1: know what I'm in and so don't forget to run
Speaker 1: your decision through just a few filters. Run those numbers,
Speaker 1: compare what a new house would cost versus renovating, and
Speaker 1: don't sugarcoat those numbers. Also factor in all those intangibles,
Speaker 1: what about family, friends, parks, bike ability, and ultimately, if
Speaker 1: you're picky, renovation might be the only option. Just make
Speaker 1: sure you know yourself before you dive into a decision.
Speaker 1: And we're spending this entire episode talking about renovating or moving, right,
Speaker 1: but again, we wanna, just like we did at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the episode, we want to challenge everyone to
Speaker 1: consider the space that you are currently in. Right, just
Speaker 1: because you have a kid doesn't mean you need to
Speaker 1: have an additional two bedrooms. Like automatically look at your
Speaker 1: space critically figure out what changes you can make that
Speaker 1: would be affordable and that could also completely transform how
Speaker 1: you live and use your house. Yeah, it might be
Speaker 1: as simple as a punk bed for the kids to
Speaker 1: allow more place base on the floor. There are so
Speaker 1: many options that you might be able to use inside
Speaker 1: of your current living situation, so you don't have to
Speaker 1: make either one of these decisions. All right, man, I
Speaker 1: think that's going to be it for this episode. We
Speaker 1: will have some show notes up on our website, how
Speaker 1: to money dot com. Be sure to check them out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you like this podcast and you found it helpful, well,
Speaker 1: guess what, there's more help on our Facebook group. It's
Speaker 1: a really fun group where you can ask questions and
Speaker 1: help out your fellow personal finance enthusiasts. So just go
Speaker 1: to Facebook and search how to Money. You'll find us
Speaker 1: right there. All right, buddy, until next time, Best Friends Out,
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out.