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Speaker 1: Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt

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Speaker 1: and today or discussing whether it's better to renovate or move.

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Speaker 1: All right, man, I'm really looking forward to tackling this

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Speaker 1: topic today because you're in the middle of a renovation.

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Speaker 1: I walked up to your house to record this evening

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Speaker 1: and there are piles of lumber in your front yard.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we have a lot to say. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the woods there, they just gotta haul it off. It

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Speaker 1: is extra would we're gonna return it because we didn't

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Speaker 1: use it? There you go, Yeah, I gotta get that

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Speaker 1: money back. All right. Before we get to the topic

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Speaker 1: of renovation, though, have you noticed my sweet new haircut?

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Speaker 1: You look a little less shabby? I will say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're look you're looking at sharp. Man. Well, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to tell everyone that I got a free haircut, and

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Speaker 1: I've been getting free haircuts for quite some time. Now.

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Speaker 1: You also get free haircuts. We'll talk about that in

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Speaker 1: one second. Um. But I go to this program that

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Speaker 1: Supercuts runs. They retrained their stylists every couple of years

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Speaker 1: or so, and so those stylists that are being retrained

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Speaker 1: need to give haircuts to practice the things that they've

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Speaker 1: learned that practiced their craft, right, Yeah, And so I

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Speaker 1: sign up and I probably need a haircut, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: every six eight weeks or so, and so I'll go

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Speaker 1: just up the street from where I work and and

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Speaker 1: I'll get a free haircut. And so today I got

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Speaker 1: another free haircut. Looks pretty smooth, feeling fresh. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, some days are better than others

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Speaker 1: when I go there. Yeah, I can assess to that

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Speaker 1: because there's been some times to do or you've come

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Speaker 1: back and like your your hair is trimmed next to

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Speaker 1: your ears, like all the way up almost to like

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Speaker 1: the top of your ear, I look a little dumb

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Speaker 1: and dumberish or something like that. Oh man, Then that

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Speaker 1: that's making me think of dental work. You can do

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Speaker 1: the same thing with dental work, right. I remember growing

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Speaker 1: up in Augusta, Georgia, and they've got a dental school

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Speaker 1: there that you could go and get your teeth cleaned

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Speaker 1: for free by a dental hygienists. They're practicing their craft.

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Speaker 1: And what a free, awesome way to get your teeth cleaned,

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Speaker 1: which might be something I know our listeners would like

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Speaker 1: to hear me do because I got some flak for

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Speaker 1: not going to the dentist every I don't know, six

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Speaker 1: months or something whatever some folks do. Yeah, so maybe

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Speaker 1: find a free place to go get your teeth clean.

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Speaker 1: I will report back. But when it comes to haircuts, though, man, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've cut my own hair for the past over twenty

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Speaker 1: years now, like ever since I was a kid. Basically,

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Speaker 1: my mom messed up one time because she used to

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Speaker 1: cut my hair and she screwed it up, and I

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Speaker 1: was so upset at her. I told her, I was like,

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Speaker 1: You're never gonna cut my hair again, because I was

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Speaker 1: an angsty preteen, I'm sure. And yeah, for the past

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Speaker 1: over twenty years now, I've had a little haircutting kit

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Speaker 1: and I've cut my own hair. And I've actually cut

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Speaker 1: your hair too, like at the beach you have, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and what do you think? Decent? It was solid. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. It was good. I would do

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Speaker 1: it again. I would do it again. I would rather

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Speaker 1: have you cut my hair than pay for a haircut.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you that. Boom and and so I'll tell everyone.

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Speaker 1: I'll add props coming from my co host. So I'll

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Speaker 1: put a link in the show notes to the program there.

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Speaker 1: It's nationwide and you can find a supercut center near

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Speaker 1: you where they retrain people. And so if you're like

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Speaker 1: me and you don't like paying for haircuts, you prefer

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Speaker 1: to get it for free. And I will say that

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Speaker 1: there's a slight trade off, right, I have to drive

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Speaker 1: just to touch further in order to get this haircut.

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Speaker 1: The second trade off is the complete feeling of insecurity

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Speaker 1: that's bubbling up inside of me while my hair is

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Speaker 1: being cut. It you're like, what am I gonna look

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Speaker 1: like walking out of here? Just exactly the stress and

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Speaker 1: it just it Also it takes quite a bit longer,

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Speaker 1: I feel like, because the person that's in charge has

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Speaker 1: to oversee and make sure that the person is doing

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Speaker 1: it well. So it's gonna take a little bit longer

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Speaker 1: to get your hair cut. Did you get grated on

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Speaker 1: the spot? No, but they are correcting them as they

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Speaker 1: go and pointers and whatnot, tips and tricks all that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Yeah, but I found it to be

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Speaker 1: worth it, and it's actually it's kind of fun. I

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Speaker 1: kind of like the people there at this point. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: but just word of the wise, if you're find a

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Speaker 1: place near you, and if you don't know of one.

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Speaker 1: Check out our show notes for for this episode and

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Speaker 1: you'll you'll see the link for the article I wrote

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Speaker 1: about the many places around the country where you can

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Speaker 1: get a free haircut. Yeah, and I'll mention too that

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Speaker 1: this isn't gonna be for everyone, right, Like, some people

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Speaker 1: are gonna value having their hair cut by their stylist

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Speaker 1: or someone who knows them really well and knows exactly

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Speaker 1: what they like. You know, my old roommate in college,

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Speaker 1: he uh was one of those guys that would pay

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Speaker 1: a good bit of money to go to this nicer

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Speaker 1: salon like John Edwards Style four hundred and something knowledge

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Speaker 1: for hair. Yeah, not quite, but he didn't go to

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Speaker 1: this hip place downtown Athens. And what he told me

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Speaker 1: was that my hair is the only thing I wear

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Speaker 1: every single day. If I spend uh, you know, some

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Speaker 1: money on a nice bear of jeans, and I wear

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Speaker 1: those almost every day, why wouldn't I spend some decent

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Speaker 1: money on a haircut? Flawed logic. I don't agree that

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Speaker 1: that was his approach, And why you wear a hat

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Speaker 1: it's much cheaper, But I mean again that that being said,

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Speaker 1: some people value having a really nice haircut, having it styled.

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Speaker 1: You and I do not, even though we still want

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Speaker 1: to look nice, like we've got nice hair, and I

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Speaker 1: don't really care. Yeah, no, I look, I still look amazing.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, but you want to look decent. But

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Speaker 1: for instance, for us, like we would rather take that

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Speaker 1: money and put it towards nice craft beer completely. And

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what it comes down to. I mean, for me,

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Speaker 1: the thought processes, I can go spend fifteen dollars and

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Speaker 1: a five dollar tip whatever it costs these days year

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Speaker 1: since I this, Yeah, it's somewhere in that ballpark some

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Speaker 1: really good beer for twenty bucks, and that's just kind

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Speaker 1: of the trade off in my mind. That that's the

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Speaker 1: way I think about it. And so yeah, for me,

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Speaker 1: going to get the free haircut totally worth it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like this beer that you brought for tonight's this is

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Speaker 1: a Burial beer company surf Wax, and I know that

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Speaker 1: this is one of your favorite beers completely. Burial is

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite breweries right now. Yeah, and in

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Speaker 1: my opinion probably overall, if I'm just factoring in every

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Speaker 1: single possible thing when it comes to how many good

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Speaker 1: beers they make, and they're cool packaging and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: I think Burials number one on my list right really, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: best breweries in the Southeast, best approach to beer, best flavors.

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Speaker 1: Their artwork is totally awesome too. It's kind a little apocalyptic, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a little pop. It's like apocalyptic mixed with folk, which

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Speaker 1: is probably why you love it, because that's sort of

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Speaker 1: your jams. Some of them are like a little weird,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know. I kind of like the silver

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Speaker 1: cans and I love the script that they use, and

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Speaker 1: and surf Wax is just my go to beer right now. So, Matt,

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Speaker 1: I see you taking the ship. Give me one word

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Speaker 1: that you would use to describe this delightful I pa

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Speaker 1: from Burial, Dude, it's great? Is great your word? Because

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Speaker 1: that's not a great word. My one word is gonna

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Speaker 1: be gold standard. What are your thoughts? Man? Used to

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Speaker 1: love this? I p a yeah, my word. It's been

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Speaker 1: a minute since I've had this, but for a long

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Speaker 1: time that's all I was drinking. I felt like and

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Speaker 1: my word is balanced. But Matt will get to some

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Speaker 1: more tasting notes about this beer at the end of

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Speaker 1: the show, but right now, let's get to the topic

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Speaker 1: at hand. Is it better to renovate a home or

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Speaker 1: to move. And there's a problem that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people face when they find themselves bumping up against a

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Speaker 1: home that feels too small, and families needs changed as

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Speaker 1: they have more kids, or maybe one of the parents

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Speaker 1: begins to work from home, finds themselves in need of

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Speaker 1: a home office. All these sorts of changes make us

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Speaker 1: start to think, if we're living in a smaller house, well, hey,

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Speaker 1: do I renovate that home or do we attempt to

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Speaker 1: move and find another home that that suits are needs

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Speaker 1: more appropriately? And so in this episode, we we want

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Speaker 1: to tackle all of the potential thoughts that go through

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Speaker 1: your head and kind of help people make an informed

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Speaker 1: decision as to what the better move is for their situation.

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Speaker 1: And you know, for a lot of people, they think

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Speaker 1: the only solution is to either sell your home or

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Speaker 1: to stay and renovate, like you mentioned, but with home

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Speaker 1: prices at pretty much all time highs right now, renovating

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Speaker 1: might seem like that no brainers, you know, great solution,

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Speaker 1: right if you're running out of space. And for me, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking out of personal experience, because for us at

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Speaker 1: our old home, we did plan to renovate. We had

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Speaker 1: gotten drawings. We had dreamed of how we're going to

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Speaker 1: be in the house basically forever. We started getting quotes,

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Speaker 1: and through that process is when we realized that, you

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Speaker 1: know what, we think it's gonna be better this time

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Speaker 1: to actually move to a different home. And we had

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Speaker 1: different reasons for that. But then now a few years later,

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Speaker 1: we're now obviously renovating our home and gosh, man, I

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Speaker 1: feel like this is something that Kate and I have

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Speaker 1: talked about NonStop for the past several years. It's just

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Speaker 1: something that's been on our minds where we're kind of

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Speaker 1: always weighing the pros and cons Should we move, should

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Speaker 1: we stay where we are and renovate to accommodate for

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Speaker 1: a growing family? And you know, I work from home,

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Speaker 1: like you mentioned having a home office. There's us a

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Speaker 1: lot to consider, and yeah, we're gonna unpack all that

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Speaker 1: this episode. And you moved just around the corner, literally

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Speaker 1: like three or four blocks, right from where you were

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Speaker 1: to where you are now. And so for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, moving can often mean moving three or four

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Speaker 1: miles or further, and that compounds the difficulty of that decision.

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Speaker 1: But I will say too, on top of it, the

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Speaker 1: housing market in the particulars of where the housing market

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Speaker 1: is at the current moment in time kind of compounds

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Speaker 1: of difficulty of a decision like that as well, because

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Speaker 1: if you're talking about a few years ago, Matt, when

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Speaker 1: you bought this home, when you made the decision to

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Speaker 1: move as opposed to renovate, it actually made a little

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Speaker 1: bit more sense to move, just because housing prices were

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Speaker 1: a little bit lower, mortgage interest rates were still incredibly

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Speaker 1: low all time lows. Yeah, and so the current housing

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Speaker 1: market actually can lend itself to to make the decision

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Speaker 1: towards renovating a little bit easier, even with renovating costs

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Speaker 1: having gone higher, because hiring a contractor has gotten more expensive,

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Speaker 1: right because of so many building projects happening around the country. Man,

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Speaker 1: That's definitely true. When we contacted our contractor last year,

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Speaker 1: he basically said, in you know, over ten years, this

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Speaker 1: is the busiest that he has ever been. And so

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Speaker 1: to get his subs lined up and to try to

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Speaker 1: maintain a you know, a specific tight schedule, he forewarned

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Speaker 1: me that, hey, this is gonna be a little bit tough,

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Speaker 1: but you know that he would do the best he could.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I like what you said, how given that

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Speaker 1: certain market conditions might favor one over the other. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so we are not necessarily going to cover all

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Speaker 1: the current market conditions that make it. We're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about kind of a generalized overview of how you should

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Speaker 1: make this decision. But just remember that it completely depends

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Speaker 1: on exactly what's happening in the housing market. And four

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Speaker 1: or five years ago it made sense in so many

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Speaker 1: more cases to move and to buy another home as

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Speaker 1: opposed to renovate the current home you're in. But right now,

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Speaker 1: with like Matt said, prices close to all time highs,

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Speaker 1: the opposite is more likely true in your case, and

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Speaker 1: renovating actually makes more sense for most people right now.

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Speaker 1: And also I wanted to mention as well that I mean,

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Speaker 1: you and I are the cheap guys. We're not cheap,

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Speaker 1: we're frugal, right, but we can cut each other's hair

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Speaker 1: if for your haircuts. And it almost sounds kind of

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Speaker 1: funny to talk about how like, Okay, people have to

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Speaker 1: either move and sell your house or you have to

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Speaker 1: renovate and spend a ton of money that way, but

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Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning challenge yourself to do neither, Like how

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Speaker 1: could you use your space that you currently have in

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Speaker 1: a different way. Maybe you could repurpose a formal dining

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Speaker 1: room that you never use into a play space or

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Speaker 1: a den for your kids. Look at the different spaces

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Speaker 1: in your home a little more critically. There's so much

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Speaker 1: that you can do if you spend a couple hundred bucks,

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Speaker 1: say at Ikea, and fix up your storage solutions in

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Speaker 1: order to just make your space a lot more livable. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and if you're adding on because you want a guest

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Speaker 1: bedroom in your house, we'll think about how much money

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Speaker 1: that could potentially cost, and think about at the same time,

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Speaker 1: what if you offered to pay for a hotel room

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Speaker 1: a couple of times a year for people that come

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Speaker 1: into town to stay with you. That could actually, in

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Speaker 1: a long run, end up costing you so much less.

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Speaker 1: And so just yeah, I think a little bit outside

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Speaker 1: the box when it comes to this question of renovating

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Speaker 1: or moving. We think this is an important topic to

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Speaker 1: cover because there are so many people face with this question. But,

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Speaker 1: like Matt said, little challenge delaying this decision a little

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Speaker 1: bit and forcing yourself to live, you know, within a

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Speaker 1: certain space while you save the cash too. For a

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Speaker 1: potential renovation or move right is a worthwhile exercise, and

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Speaker 1: at the same time, you might find that with a

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Speaker 1: few small changes and tweaks to your current layout, you

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Speaker 1: can easily and happily live inside of the space that

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Speaker 1: you're currently inhabiting. Yeah, and cost is obviously one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest things to consider when you're debating between renovating

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Speaker 1: or moving. And so we're gonna get to that right

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Speaker 1: after the break, all right, Jeel, Costs gonna kick it off, Yeah, Matt,

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Speaker 1: the costs of moving that purchasing a new home. The

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Speaker 1: costs don't end at the closing table. And don't get

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Speaker 1: me wrong, there are a lot of costs of the

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Speaker 1: closing table right. There are agency fees on both sides

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Speaker 1: of of selling and buying. If you are moving, their

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Speaker 1: closing costs associated with that, you'll likely be paying more interest,

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Speaker 1: a higher interest rate on your new loan to pending on.

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Speaker 1: You know when you bought the house you're currently in

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Speaker 1: and what your current mortgage rade is. But on top

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Speaker 1: of that, you're talking about new paint, new decor, furniture

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Speaker 1: outfitting the new space. So buying a new home can

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Speaker 1: be expensive, and especially if you're in this quandary of

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Speaker 1: renovating verse buying. You're looking at buying a bigger home,

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Speaker 1: you're likely taking on a bigger obligation altogether, and you're

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Speaker 1: gonna need to buy more stuff because all your old

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Speaker 1: stuff just isn't gonna fill out this new home quite

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Speaker 1: as well. Yes, right man. We talked about that in

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Speaker 1: the Everything Costs More Than You Think episode. That's sort

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Speaker 1: of one of the lifestyle secondary costs that just pop

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Speaker 1: up when you move into a bigger home. And so

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Speaker 1: buying a new home can be expensive, but dude, selling

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Speaker 1: your old home can be even more expensive, right. Like

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, there's the realtory fees that you pay as

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Speaker 1: a seller, closing costically with those, oftentimes you split with

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Speaker 1: a buyer, and then on top of that paying for movers.

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Speaker 1: You know, we just moved a few couple blocks, and

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Speaker 1: for us it was pretty easy because we just got

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Speaker 1: a bunch of friends together through some beer into the mix,

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Speaker 1: and we threw everything into the u hau. But if

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Speaker 1: you're moving to a different neighborhood or even across town,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of tough to do that by yourself. And

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Speaker 1: as we get older, we get more responsibilities. I'm not

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Speaker 1: really wanting to move my friends around anymore like I

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Speaker 1: used to back in the day. Man, I don't know

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Speaker 1: about you, it was it was so easy to get

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Speaker 1: a good turnout for pizza and beer moving day back

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Speaker 1: when you were four. It's so much harder, a lot

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Speaker 1: harder now now that we're in our mid thirties. It's

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Speaker 1: so hard to get our friends to turn out for

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Speaker 1: something like that. So you really might have to depending

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Speaker 1: on what stage of life you're in and where you're at,

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Speaker 1: you you might have to pay for movers, and that

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Speaker 1: is definitely an added expense to consider. That's right, man.

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Speaker 1: So moving it can be expensive, but so can renovating, right,

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Speaker 1: and so potentially it can be more affordable than buying

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Speaker 1: if you're in the same area, and if you've seen

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Speaker 1: your values increase, you could even also tap into that

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Speaker 1: increase in value for the home for costs via say

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Speaker 1: a home equity loan or a home equity line of credit. However,

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Speaker 1: keep this in mind that renovation costs always end up

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Speaker 1: costing more than you initially think. We are learning that firsthand.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna cost you more. Yeah, things never seem to

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Speaker 1: go as planned as the contractor planned. Or as you

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Speaker 1: had planned, right, and and so that's always like the

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Speaker 1: desired goal is cool, let's put this on paper, let's

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Speaker 1: figure out how much is this we're going to cost.

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Speaker 1: But anytime, and especially Matt, we're talking about old houses here.

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Speaker 1: You're in a nine house. Yeah, you and I both

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Speaker 1: have houses that are about a hundred years old. And

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Speaker 1: so when you start to open walls or rip open

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Speaker 1: flooring or reroute plumbing, you're talking about mega increases in

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Speaker 1: cost because of older systems that need updating. You might

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Speaker 1: find something like wood rot or just a system that

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Speaker 1: is completely out of date, and it might have been

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Speaker 1: fine in the current conditions for a few more years,

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Speaker 1: but once you start renovating, it's like another domino that falls.

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Speaker 1: And once you've opened a wall up, at that point

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Speaker 1: it has to be addressed. Yeah. Man, honestly, that's the

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Speaker 1: biggest thing that Kit and I have struggled with. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we've already got the drywall guy here. Do we need

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Speaker 1: to go ahead and maybe just dry all this as well?

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Speaker 1: And maybe we want to redo this wall or oh

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Speaker 1: the plumbers here, Gosh, doesn't make sense to go ahead

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Speaker 1: and replace the cast iron pipes that are also in

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Speaker 1: this part of the house, it's hard to draw the line.

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Speaker 1: And that's just one of the ways that you can

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Speaker 1: see your renovation budget continue to creep up. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I've never done a completely full on renovation myself, Matt,

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Speaker 1: but I've renovated entire bathrooms more than once at my

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Speaker 1: primary house and rental houses. And this happens then when

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Speaker 1: I replace bathrooms, I've had to replace the entire subfloor

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Speaker 1: every time, because bathrooms have water issues and get wet,

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Speaker 1: and especially over decades and decades of compounding, there's an

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Speaker 1: opening in the cock you know, along the steam of

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Speaker 1: your bathtub, and water starts to get in there, and

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Speaker 1: it starts to get down to the subfloor, and just

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Speaker 1: every time, not knowing it ahead of time, that's an

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Speaker 1: extra almost thousand dollar expense to replace the subfloor on

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Speaker 1: just a small bathroom. That's just one example of something

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Speaker 1: that is typically not factored in but almost always happens

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Speaker 1: as an expensive pops up. And you're gonna find that

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Speaker 1: if you're renovating a kitchen or a bathroom something like that,

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Speaker 1: those sorts of additional expenses are almost inevitably gonna pop

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Speaker 1: up for you. That's right, man, and hopefully your home

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Speaker 1: is now worth more than what you actually invested into

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Speaker 1: it with a renovation. But depending on what problems you

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Speaker 1: rent into you like, you may not, and depending if

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Speaker 1: you maybe overbuild for the neighborhood, you may not get

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Speaker 1: that money back at all. And so the value almost

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Speaker 1: never increases dollar for dollar what you put into it.

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Speaker 1: And so make sure that when you are renovating that

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Speaker 1: you're doing it for yourself and that you're not only

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Speaker 1: considering the resale value. A lot of times people think, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we can get that money back when we sell it. Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, you know, you may not even sell

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Speaker 1: the place, like you might end up keeping it. And

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Speaker 1: you've got this fancy tile work that you thought you

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Speaker 1: were gonna maybe get your money back on um and

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Speaker 1: now you are the one enjoying it in your master

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Speaker 1: bathroom all by yourself, just you and your significant other.

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Speaker 1: But secondly, chances are that someone isn't going to value

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Speaker 1: that that fancy tile work as much as you are.

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Speaker 1: And so whatever you're doing, make sure that you are

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Speaker 1: the one enjoying it and that you're receiving sort of

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Speaker 1: optimal value out of what you're putting into the renovation. So, Matt,

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Speaker 1: just a quick stat that I think we should throw

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Speaker 1: out there. This random school in the northeast called Harvard

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Speaker 1: did a study. I don't have you heard of them,

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Speaker 1: Never heard of it. Yeah, nobody's smart goes there, I

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Speaker 1: don't think. But they found that the average payback in

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Speaker 1: a home's resale value is only fifty six of the

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Speaker 1: cost of the remodel ouch ouch. That's brutal, man, And

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Speaker 1: I think most of us have watched just way too

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Speaker 1: much HDTV, and we've seen these numbers that are just ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: and we've seen people that are professionals at it who

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Speaker 1: sometimes lose their shirts as well. I love too at

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Speaker 1: the end of an HDTV show where they say projected

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Speaker 1: sale of this house blah blah blah blah blah, right

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Speaker 1: that they flipped. And so just know that that the

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Speaker 1: rosy outlook on an HDTV show is completely different than

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Speaker 1: the numbers that have been found in studies and in

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Speaker 1: all likelihood, what you're putting into your rento, I hope

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Speaker 1: you love it. Make sure you love because I can

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Speaker 1: almost assure you that you're not going to get the

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Speaker 1: money back out that you put into it. Yeah, that's right, man,

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Speaker 1: Flip or Flap, Right, we're talking about more more of

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Speaker 1: the flop side. You don't watch any of those shows, really,

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Speaker 1: do you know? My mom loves him them. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's super into the h G t V stuff and

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Speaker 1: every time I'm over there we'll watch a few minutes together.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, my in laws love it as well, to

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Speaker 1: watch the different ones where they are like on an

404
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Speaker 1: island or it's like flipper Flop on the island or

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Speaker 1: beach side flipper Flap. There's like all these different versions

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Speaker 1: of it and it's interesting. But at the same time, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's made for TV. It's not reality. And just make

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Speaker 1: sure you keep that in mind when it comes to

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Speaker 1: what you're spending on your renovation. And as someone who

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Speaker 1: has hired his own contractors, hired people to work on

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Speaker 1: many renovation projects at my homes, I feel like HTTV

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Speaker 1: lacks a lot of realism. Oh yeah, all right, man,

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Speaker 1: So that was cost when it comes to renovating versus moving.

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Speaker 1: Now we're gonna talk about location. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: when you move, a lot of times that comes with

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Speaker 1: some excitement that comes with finding a new neighborhood. You

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Speaker 1: get to start fresh. There's new relationships. There are new

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Speaker 1: things like your surroundings, like new parks and things like that. Dude, However,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of sad at the same time too, Right,

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Speaker 1: you're having to uproot, You're breaking off a lot of

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Speaker 1: relationships with neighbors in the community that you've who knows

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Speaker 1: how long you've lived there, hopefully for at least five years.

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Speaker 1: But it's sort of a sad time as well. And

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Speaker 1: so even though it might make sense from a number standpoint,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of downsides to to moving as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's always a tough decision if you especially if you

427
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 1: love where you currently live and you're trying to figure

428
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 1: out whether you should renovate this house. I mean, obviously,

429
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,159
Speaker 1: if you're thinking about renovating, then there's some attachment at

430
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 1: the house, maybe just the actual physical house or the

431
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 1: neighborhood or the community that you're in, and moving, you know,

432
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 1: might seem a little sad. So, like you said at

433
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,640
Speaker 1: the beginning, Matt, that challenge to kind of stay put.

434
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 1: You know, if you do love where you're at in

435
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 1: the house, maybe you just feel like you're bursting out.

436
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,400
Speaker 1: That seems a little bit. If you can find ways

437
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 1: to kind of stay put that can help you to

438
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 1: stay in the house that you love and in a

439
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 1: community that you love. Man, However, there are you know, again,

440
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 1: some benefits when it comes to moving, Like you could

441
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: potentially move closer to your work. Maybe you've got a

442
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 1: new job since you purchase your last home, so you

443
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,440
Speaker 1: could save time on commuting. Maybe since then as well,

444
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 1: you've got kids, and so now you're considering the schools,

445
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 1: and there might be some better schools in the area

446
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 1: that you're looking to buy. These are things that might

447
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 1: silt the scales for or against. Again when it comes

448
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 1: to location, if you renovate, well, obviously you get to

449
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,680
Speaker 1: stay put. If you love where you are, that's awesome.

450
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, Matt, but I feel

451
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 1: like even in our neighborhood or we live, even just

452
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 1: moving a few blocks can mean a big difference. And

453
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 1: I'm so tight with my neighbors, like we get together

454
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 1: a lot, and I love not just our neighborhood, but

455
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: I love our block. I love the people that live

456
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,360
Speaker 1: across from me and on the side of me. And

457
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 1: if I move three blocks to to go to a

458
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 1: bigger house, that just changes the vibe of how I

459
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 1: live truly, and so that's the kind of thing that

460
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,880
Speaker 1: maybe that doesn't factor into your decision nearly as much,

461
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,239
Speaker 1: but general location and specific location are just a really

462
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 1: important thing for you to think through before you make

463
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: this decision, all right, Joel, So that was location. Next,

464
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about dust boxes and life upheaval. It's

465
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 1: a pretty serious event, and you might be living out

466
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 1: of boxes maybe for a little bit, maybe a couple

467
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: of weeks, but generally speaking, you're able to quickly sort

468
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 1: of rip the bandit off right and make the change

469
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 1: all at once. It's a relatively quick thing and you

470
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: can just kind of move on with life. Yeah, but

471
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: if you renovate, depending on the size and scope of

472
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 1: the renovation, right, it can take months, potentially like half

473
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,360
Speaker 1: a year. And so if you're planning to live through

474
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 1: the rento out like you are, you can speak to this.

475
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: You also might be living without a kitchen or a

476
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: second right for potentially months. And I don't know about you,

477
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 1: but I still like recording in your dining room slash kitchen.

478
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of fun. You know. For us,

479
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: we've made it work, and that's something that we knew

480
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: going into it. Ahead of time, right, Like we sort

481
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 1: of mapped out mentally like what is this going to

482
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: do to us? What is this gonna do with our family?

483
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: What is this gonna do to our day to day

484
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 1: and sort of mentally preparing for that. We knew that, Okay,

485
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: we can handle that, and it hasn't been too bad.

486
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: But what about the dust and the noise? How about

487
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 1: those things been, especially with contractors coming in and out.

488
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 1: How has that affected like your kids? Yeah, so you know, honestly,

489
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 1: it hasn't affected them at all because they're young and

490
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: can sleep through pretty much anything when it comes to naps.

491
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 1: But dude, for me, it's just been such a distraction.

492
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: So I work from home, and I sit in my

493
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 1: office at the front of the house, and they're doing

494
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: the work on the back of the house. But even still,

495
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: I can hear that stuff's going on, even with my earplugs.

496
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 1: And I've gotten used to working with these foam earplugs

497
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 1: and I roll them up and stick in my ears

498
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: so I can concentrate. But I they'll know they're back

499
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: there because I can feel the floors shake sometimes if

500
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: they're doing something big. That's something you need to prepare for,

501
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: not everyone is cut out for sort of living in

502
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: a dusty, sort of dirty house, because a renovation is

503
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: just dirty work, like dust gets everywhere, drywall dust. Oh

504
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: my gosh, don't even get me started. Man, We're still

505
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,959
Speaker 1: finding that stuff and like nooks and crannies, and so

506
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: I know for a lot of people that that just

507
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't fly. Yeah, if you're a clean freak, renovation might

508
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: not be for you. And Matt, I wanted to mention

509
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: that this is actually gonna be a two part series.

510
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 1: Next week on the show, we're gonna talk about if

511
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 1: you do decide to renovate, the steps you need to

512
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 1: take because right now we're kind of like pros and cons,

513
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: And if you say I'm all in for renovation, well,

514
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: we want to make sure that you know how to

515
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: find a contractor and no know how to make sure

516
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: you're not overpaying for that renovation. So we'll get into

517
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: that next week. But right after the break, Matt, we're

518
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 1: gonna talk about one thing that you can definitely get

519
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: out of a renovation that you can never get out

520
00:22:49,440 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 1: of a move. Al Right, Joel, Now let's talk about

521
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 1: design and utility. Like you hinted ats when you renovate

522
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: a home and you're customizing your own space. You get

523
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: to choose the layout and how the new space will

524
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: function for you and your family. You get to choose

525
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: how many maybe bes and bass that you want, and

526
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: you get to decide the finishes and something about it too.

527
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 1: That's just really hard to quantify, though, is just how

528
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: that's rewarding. And so when you live in a space

529
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: for a few years, you start dreaming and you start thinking,

530
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: how could this work better for us? You know, what

531
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: if we did this, or what if this wall wasn't

532
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: here and instead this connected these two spaces and then

533
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: we could sit here and we could see the kids

534
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: over there. You start having these sort of dreams and

535
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: you start painting a picture and when you start to

536
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: see that come to fruition in reality, like in three

537
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: D in real life. Right, there's something about that that's

538
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 1: just incredibly rewarding, Like it came from your brain and

539
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: then you sort of concepted it out and then you

540
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: start to see it form around you. And yeah, I

541
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: tell you what that is just incredibly rewarding. It's hard

542
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: to sort of pinpoint what that is other than just

543
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: creating something that's cool and fun. That also costs a

544
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: lot of money. So yeah, that's not something that you

545
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: get when you are going to buy a new house. Yeah,

546
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: you can create the exact layout flow in space design

547
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: that you want in a rento, right, you can say

548
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: I want a little dungeon for my children over here,

549
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: and then it comes to fruition. But you know what,

550
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: there's no house on the market that has a dungeon

551
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: for kids that I know of. So the only way

552
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: that I can get that where I can put my

553
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: kids when they're bad too far too long, that some

554
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: specific criteria. Exactly. That's the kind of thing you can

555
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: create when you're renovating, but it doesn't exist on the

556
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: market right when you're moving. Yeah, Matt, And for instance,

557
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: in your renovation, you've been able to do things exactly

558
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: the way that you want them, with the exact finishes

559
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: and layout that you desired, and to go on the

560
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: open market and to look at houses listed in the

561
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: same area that have those specific requirements built in man,

562
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: it's just so much harder to find. And on top

563
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: of that, certain specific things that people can build into

564
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 1: a renovation. People often decide to renovate as opposed to

565
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: move because there are certain things that they say over

566
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 1: when it comes to the final way that their house

567
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: looks that they just couldn't find on the open market.

568
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: So maybe one of those things is a spot for

569
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,959
Speaker 1: an aging parent where they kind of feel like they

570
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: have their own space inside of the same house. And

571
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: that sort of multi generational housing can be hard to

572
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: come by, so you feel like you have to renovate

573
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: in order to get it exactly like you want. And

574
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: that's definitely one check in the box in favor of

575
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: renovating is supposed to moving, that's right, and with moving

576
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: as well, when you are paying sort of top dollar

577
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: for a finished home, there are things that you are

578
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: paying for it that you don't value, but that are

579
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,719
Speaker 1: there because that's what they had to do to get

580
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: it to sort of market show ability level. Like they

581
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: were told by the realtor that, oh, you've got to

582
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: have these kind of countertops. Oh, obviously you've got to

583
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: get the grante, Oh this needs to be this color,

584
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: you need to have this sort of light fixture. And

585
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: you bought the house because it was in the neighborhood

586
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: that you liked, and it was on the block that

587
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: you liked, but maybe you didn't like all those things,

588
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: all those finishes that they chose. But fact is, you're

589
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: still paying for the finishes, regardless if you value them

590
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: or not. I know sometimes when I see houses go

591
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: up for sale in our neighborhood, I'm always looking. I'm

592
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: always interested, because you know, as a real estate investor,

593
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: you're just constantly looking at houses. And nothing pains me

594
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: more than to see a house go up for sale

595
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: that has just been completely gutted and refinished and I

596
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: don't like any of the finishes. It's kind of sad.

597
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I don't like the layout and I don't

598
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: like the finishing choices, and I'm just like, hopefully somebody's

599
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: gonna like this, but I would be super bummed if

600
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: it was in this perfect location. It was the kind

601
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: of house that I wanted, but a lot of nice

602
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: finishes that just weren't to my taste. Yeah, exactly. And

603
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 1: another thing that's really important a factor in when you're

604
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: talking about renovating or moving is the stress level. Moving

605
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: has its own stressors. I think we think about renovation

606
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: as being the most stressful option in this case, and

607
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: I think that's probably true, but moving does have its

608
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: stressors as well, So if you're trying to get financing,

609
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: find a new home, and close all within the same

610
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: time period, that can be really difficult. You're looking to

611
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: get your old home ready for listening, you're talking about cleaning, painting,

612
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: getting that stuff up to snuff so you can entice buyers.

613
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: Then you have to accept offers and clothes as well

614
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: as shopping for another house and closing on that. There's

615
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: gonna be some stress. The great is, in all likelihood

616
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: you're moving into a home that's closer to being turnkey

617
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: or or you probably wouldn't be making that decision, right.

618
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: But but let's just be clear that upfront, the moving

619
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: is gonna involve a lot of stress, even though it

620
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: might not be quite as much as doing a full renovation. Yeah, man,

621
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: I know, I've seen that selling and then moving into

622
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: a new home just has like the same stress level

623
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: as like losing a loved one, like the death of

624
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: someone that you really love, and that's just terrible. And

625
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: like you said, though, renovating can be extremely stressful, right,

626
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: having to constantly deal with contractors and then the noise,

627
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: like we talked about earlier, it just takes this toll.

628
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: It's less intense than moving. But when you spread that

629
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: out over months and months, and then if you've got

630
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: a big renovation, right, if you're renovating down to the studs,

631
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: it can even take close to a year. Right. Could

632
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: you imagine a full year of basically a part time job,

633
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,719
Speaker 1: which is typically what it is when you're renovating at home, Well,

634
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: at that point in time, Matt. Two, if you're doing

635
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: that much renovation, usually you're forced to almost do both

636
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: of these things because you have to move out for

637
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: a certain period of time and live somewhere else. And

638
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: that can be a pain, not only financially but emotionally.

639
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: And it's difficult because depending on where you're living while

640
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: the renovation is occurring, it's hard to go check on

641
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: the progress as often as you like. And so that's

642
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: another thing to factor in. Two. Can you live through

643
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: the renovation being in the house that you're in And

644
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: if not, that just throws a whole other wrench into everything.

645
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: I mean, and finding that sort of temporary housing, right, Like,

646
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: that's a definite reality, especially if you're doing a huge renovation.

647
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: It's going to keep in mind as well though that's

648
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: something that could also happen if you're moving right, So

649
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: say you go in our contract in your house, you

650
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: get a great offer, you gotta move, but you don't

651
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: have a new place yet, you're gonna have to end

652
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: up moving twice, which totally sucks as well. But again,

653
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: so renovating is crazy stressful. Um And then also keep

654
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: in mind too, you might think it might only take

655
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: six months, but renovating always ends up taking longer than

656
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: you think it's gonna take because there are just a

657
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: little hiccups. There's additional unforeseen problems that arise, and so

658
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: expect some delays. Also, something else that adds to all

659
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: the stress man is what we call decision fatigue. That's

660
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: what we've made like ends of thousands of decisions already

661
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: up until this point, and we're not even totally done yet.

662
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: Like literally today I called up Kate. She was out

663
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: to lunch and because there's a question regarding regarding the

664
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: shoe molding, like do you want a quarta around or

665
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 1: do you want shoe molding, because the contractor asked me,

666
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: and I defer to Kate on a lot of things.

667
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: And it's just a little call that you have to make.

668
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: It's not a huge deal, but you multiply that no joke,

669
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: by hundreds and hundreds of decisions. Yeah, last time I

670
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: was over here, you guys were discussing a notch in

671
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: the in the in the base molding, right, So it's

672
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: one of those things that Yeah, there's like there literally

673
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: are potentially thousands of decisions that you have to make

674
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: like that that do wear on you overtime. You think

675
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be the fun ones like a quick

676
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: light fixture or a new toilet, but those decisions add up,

677
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: they compound, and they just become annoying after a while. Right,

678
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: only is a toilet decision exciting to you? No, seriously,

679
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: that's a benefit right of renovating a home, is that

680
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: you do get to make these decisions, you get to customize.

681
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: But like you said, after a while, it's just man,

682
00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: it's taxing and it wears on you, and in the end,

683
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: it just adds to the stress. So, Matt, for people

684
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: that are weighing this decision, there are three filters that

685
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: you need to run this potential decision through, So let's

686
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: go through those real quick. First is to consider your

687
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: options and run the numbers. Compare what buying a new

688
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: house might cost you versus renovating. Don't sugarcoat these numbers.

689
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: Look at a quote from a contractor and add and

690
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: also tap on to the length of time that the

691
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: contractor says that this renovation will take. At the same time,

692
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: when you're looking at buying a new home, factor in

693
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: the increased costs of a higher mortgage, interest rate, property taxes,

694
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: heating and cooling, potential furniture acquisition, all of those things. Right,

695
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: you want to factor in all those things. Run the

696
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: numbers so that you know what you're getting into before

697
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: you jump in with both feet. I like what you

698
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: said about not sugarcoating it, because in the end, you're

699
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: just sort of tricking yourself. Right in the end, you

700
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: are the one that's gonna have to pay the cost.

701
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: You're the one that's gonna have to be delayed, or

702
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: you're the one that's going to be affected by that timeline,

703
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: right like that time extended time frame. And so you

704
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: owe it to yourself to be honest with your self.

705
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: And then filter number two. These things are harder to quantify,

706
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: but consider the intangibles as well. It's a lot tougher.

707
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: The sort of plug you know your family or friends parks,

708
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: even likability like that's something that dude, you and I

709
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: really care about. It's hard to plug this sort of

710
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: things into a spreadsheet and decide, okay, the computer says yes,

711
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: Like these are things that you have to make judgment

712
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: calls on. These are things that you have to sort

713
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: of make a value judgment on, and that's a lot

714
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: harder to do. But I would say that these are

715
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: just as, if not more important than just looking at

716
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,239
Speaker 1: the numbers, because what we're talking about here is your

717
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: quality of life. And in the end, it doesn't really

718
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: matter if you ended up paying a little bit less

719
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: because you moved, or maybe you saved a buck because

720
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: you ended up renovating. But if you're not happy with

721
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: where you are, then what's the point of it? Yea.

722
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: It makes me think about when my parents were moving

723
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: a few years back, and they were talking about moving

724
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes further north of where they were, and

725
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: we're already about thirty minutes apart, and with traffic in

726
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: the city of Atlanta, you don't know, if you've heard,

727
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: it's pretty bad, it's pretty stinking rough. And so I

728
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: we had to the discussion, I'm like, listen, if you

729
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: move another twenty minutes north, We're just not going to

730
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: see you as much, and that's gonna suck. Like, we

731
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: don't want to not see you as much. We love

732
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: hanging out with you, guys, and and so that was

733
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: just something that I wanted them to make sure they

734
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: factored in that if they moved twenty minutes further, my

735
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: niecean Leaf might not have enough charge to get us there. Right,

736
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: so I don't have enough charge exactly, I might need

737
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: to get told the rest of the way up. And

738
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: filter Number three, Matt, that people need to consider is that, ultimately,

739
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: if you're picky, renovation might be the only way to

740
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: get what you want. And I've heard this from so

741
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: many people that that's why they went down the path

742
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: of renovation. Even though it was a huge pain, it

743
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: took longer, it cost more, blah blah blah, they decided

744
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: to renovate because that's the only way to get what

745
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: they want. And so just think about how picky you are,

746
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: whether the options that you want in a house actually exist.

747
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: You obviously want to make sure you have the financial

748
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: ability to afford either one of these choices, but you

749
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: also want to make sure that you're making a choice

750
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: that's gonna allow you to be comfortable in the place

751
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: that you're living over a long period of time, because,

752
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier, transaction cost and buying and selling

753
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: homes can crush you. And so you just want to

754
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: make sure that you're making the right decision up front

755
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: so you're not backpedaling a few months down the road. Yeah,

756
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: it's definitely worth making sure that you know yourself and

757
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: to know whether or not you're going to ultimately be

758
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: happy with that decision for sure. Did you put that

759
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: last one in there about being picky? Did you add

760
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: that one because of me? Because you know I'm picky.

761
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: You are picky, But honestly, if I was doing a renovation,

762
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: I would be too. And I haven't ever done a

763
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: major renovation on a house that I lived in, and

764
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: that's partly because I just don't think I could handle it.

765
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't handle the stress level. I couldn't handle the

766
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: people being up in my grill to that. Like I

767
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: can handle a one bathroom, right, I can do that,

768
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: But this whole process, I think it'd be too much

769
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: for me. So for me, just knowing myself, I would

770
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: have to be just really picky about the location and

771
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: find a house that was close by if I really

772
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: needed something different. I just don't think I could handle mentally,

773
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: physically all that stuff. I couldn't handle a complete blow

774
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: out renovation to my house. Dude, I'm actually realizing this now,

775
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: but I think, uh so previously we've purchased and renovated

776
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: and sold at home right as an invest and I

777
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: think kind of going through that once that was the

778
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: first time we've ever done that, But going through that

779
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: has prepared us to understand all that goes into a

780
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: renovation like this, and we kind of got our feet wet,

781
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: I guess with that one a couple of years ago,

782
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: and I think that's what it helped us along and

783
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: made this renovation on our own home less stressful. Yeah,

784
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: it's actually really could. And then the first one that

785
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: you did didn't occur while you were living in it, right, Yeah,

786
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: that helps a lot. But yeah, I think you have

787
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: to know yourself to a certain degree, and I know

788
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: myself well enough to know what I can handle, right, yeah, man,

789
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I feel like you could

790
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: handle it. Yeah, I think we could handle it, but

791
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: just not something I'm interested in, right. All right, let's

792
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: get back to the beer, Matt, we're drinking Burial Beer

793
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: Company Surf Flax India pale Ale. In my opinion, this

794
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: is just one of the most delightful beers around. And

795
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: the word I chose to describe this beer was balanced.

796
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: And that's because, man, there's so many I p a

797
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: s right now are either like hyper juicy hazy, mega

798
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: hot bombs, and some of the other ones are these

799
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: run of the middle, old school I p s. And

800
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: I feel like Surf Flax kind of sits right there

801
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: in the middle as this perfect beer that's just incredibly

802
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: well balanced. It's not super multi, the hops really shine,

803
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: but it's also not over the top too sweet. It

804
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 1: really seems to shadow the middle really nicely. Yeah, man,

805
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: I would have to completely agree with you. I called

806
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: it the gold standard because I feel like it really

807
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 1: is just like the quintessential gold standard, because I feel

808
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: like that almost any beer can sort of be measured

809
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: up to this beer, right, whether it is the sort

810
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: of New England style or the West Coast, because it

811
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: is balanced, like you said, when you pour, it doesn't

812
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: pour super hazy, doesn't just look like orange juice. It's

813
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: got a nice kind of golden character to it, and yeah,

814
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: it's just a good, all around awesome I p a you,

815
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: and I would recommend Burials Surf Wax. They're out of Asheville,

816
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 1: North Carolina, which is one of our favorite beer cities

817
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: in the country. And thank you for for bringing this

818
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 1: one tonight. Man, No problem, buddy, All right, Matt, let's

819
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: move on to the final thoughts. When people are considering

820
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: whether it's better to renovate or move, it's really important

821
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 1: to factor in the costs. Right. Our show is called

822
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: How to Money, and we want people to think about

823
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: their personal finances, and the costs associated with moving and

824
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: renovating are both huge, and so it's crucial to make

825
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: a list of all the potential costs for either option

826
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: before you make a decision. And I know it sounds weird,

827
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: but it's really important too at the same time to

828
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: factor in potential unexpected costs because those can radically transform

829
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: what decision you actually decided to make. And aside from

830
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: the cost there are other factors that you want to

831
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: consider that don't cost money, things like location, the amount

832
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: of dust, and sort of life upheaval that will happen,

833
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, were you to move versus renovating. The design

834
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: and utility that you would get out of the space

835
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: if you were to renovate versus moving, And then obviously

836
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: stress like either one of these are going to be stressful,

837
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: But just keep in mind the sort of type of

838
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: stress that you're willing to sign yourself up for. Moving

839
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: it's a quick, sort of maybe thirty day to sixty

840
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: day stressful period of time, versus renovating, which could be

841
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: a six to twelve month long period of stress in

842
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: your life. Not to mention also that personal space that

843
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: your contractor might be getting all up in if you

844
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: know what I'm in and so don't forget to run

845
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: your decision through just a few filters. Run those numbers,

846
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: compare what a new house would cost versus renovating, and

847
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: don't sugarcoat those numbers. Also factor in all those intangibles,

848
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: what about family, friends, parks, bike ability, and ultimately, if

849
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: you're picky, renovation might be the only option. Just make

850
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: sure you know yourself before you dive into a decision.

851
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: And we're spending this entire episode talking about renovating or moving, right,

852
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: but again, we wanna, just like we did at the

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00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: beginning of the episode, we want to challenge everyone to

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00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: consider the space that you are currently in. Right, just

855
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: because you have a kid doesn't mean you need to

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00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: have an additional two bedrooms. Like automatically look at your

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00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: space critically figure out what changes you can make that

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00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: would be affordable and that could also completely transform how

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00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: you live and use your house. Yeah, it might be

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00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: as simple as a punk bed for the kids to

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00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: allow more place base on the floor. There are so

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00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: many options that you might be able to use inside

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00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: of your current living situation, so you don't have to

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00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: make either one of these decisions. All right, man, I

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00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: think that's going to be it for this episode. We

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00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: will have some show notes up on our website, how

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00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: to money dot com. Be sure to check them out. Yeah,

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00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: and if you like this podcast and you found it helpful, well,

869
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: guess what, there's more help on our Facebook group. It's

870
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: a really fun group where you can ask questions and

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00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: help out your fellow personal finance enthusiasts. So just go

872
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: to Facebook and search how to Money. You'll find us

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00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: right there. All right, buddy, until next time, Best Friends Out,

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00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out.