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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: The bill couldn't even clear committee. Welcome to the Friday

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Speaker 2: edition as President Trump's big beautiful bill fails to pass

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Speaker 2: the Budget Committee in the House, and now the entire

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Speaker 2: timeline is being thrown into question. I'm Joe Matthew alongside

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Speaker 2: Kaylee Lines in Washington. Thanks for being with us on

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Speaker 2: the Friday edition of Balance of Power. Kaylee, A big

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Speaker 2: point of disagreement remains lifting the cap on salt, So

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Speaker 2: not a lot has changed since this time yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's still many who want the salt cap lifted

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Speaker 3: even higher than thirty thousand dollars. But then there's also

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Speaker 3: fiscal conservatives who want to see the cost saving measures

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Speaker 3: kick in earlier when it comes to Medicaid work requirements,

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Speaker 3: rolling back measures in the inflation reduction acts. And it's

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Speaker 3: those fiscal conservatives that actually took things down in the

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Speaker 3: Budget Committee today. And what was supposed to just be procedure.

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Speaker 3: This committee doesn't have power to change the legislation, and

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Speaker 3: yet it tanked anyway.

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Speaker 2: A procedural vote, essentially assembling the pieces of this bill.

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Speaker 2: We saw a number of Republicans to your point, from

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Speaker 2: the Freedom Caucus, A Lah chip Roy, Ralph Norman, and

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Speaker 2: so on, voting with Democrats. And I suspect that their

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Speaker 2: phones will be ringing today as President Trump makes his

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Speaker 2: way back from the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, keeping in mind that the President took to true

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Speaker 3: social today talking about how he wants Republicans to unite

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Speaker 3: behind this one big, beautiful bill. But certainly you're seeing

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Speaker 3: a degree of lack of unity, shall we say, on

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Speaker 3: Capitol Hill right now, and that is actually where we

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Speaker 3: go now live here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Is

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Speaker 3: joining us is Republican Congressman Nicolota, who represents New York's

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Speaker 3: first congressional district. Tea, of course, is in the Salt

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Speaker 3: Caucus and is one of the members who has been

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Speaker 3: advocating for a higher cap. Congressman, welcome back to balance

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Speaker 3: of power. Obviously, there are you and your colleagues who

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Speaker 3: are pushing for our higher salt cap up against them

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Speaker 3: of these fiscal conservatives who worry what that does to

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Speaker 3: the ultimate price tag. Is there a world here in

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Speaker 3: which those who shot things down in the Budget Committee

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Speaker 3: can get what they want and you get what you

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Speaker 3: want too, or does someone have to lose in this equation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm comfortable we're going to land this plane ultimately.

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Speaker 4: You know, we all support the concepts behind the One

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Speaker 4: Big Beautiful Bill. We all want a stronger border security

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Speaker 4: when we want to put the nation on a better

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Speaker 4: fiscal track. And there's some other priorities in there as

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Speaker 4: well that are really important. Energy dominance, really important to

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Speaker 4: the House Republican Conference. We've been other deadlines in the

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Speaker 4: past about you know, responsibly raising debt ceilings, ensuring the

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Speaker 4: government was funded, doing things responsibly like that under a deadline.

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Speaker 4: I hope that we could do that again this time.

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Speaker 4: You know, this One Big Beautiful Bill has a couple

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Speaker 4: of wards on it, but I think that we can

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Speaker 4: work through that in order to get it passed ultimately.

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Speaker 2: Well, Congressman, it's good to have you back. I know

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Speaker 2: you weren't happy with the level that was coming out

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Speaker 2: of the Ways and Means Committee when it came to

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Speaker 2: lifting the cap on salt. So are you actually encouraged

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Speaker 2: by what happened to the Budget Committee today or are

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Speaker 2: you concerned about the way forward?

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Speaker 5: Well, it just recognizes the obvious.

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Speaker 4: There are numerous factions within the Conference who are displeased

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Speaker 4: with different aspects of the bill. Salt, of course has

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Speaker 4: gotten a lot of coverage, but there are folks in

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Speaker 4: the Conference who are concerned about snap, about Medicaid, and

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Speaker 4: of course the deficit. Hawks has their concerns. So there

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Speaker 4: are a couple of things holding this bill up. I

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Speaker 4: hope that we get t yes. But with respect to salt,

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Speaker 4: salt is a pay for the bill has written right

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Speaker 4: now from twenty seventeen, has the salt cap expiring at

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Speaker 4: the end of the year and going back to unlimited

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Speaker 4: and unlimited salt over the next ten years. Is valued

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Speaker 4: at one point three trillion dollars, and that's what's going

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Speaker 4: to happen if no bill passes and folks like me

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Speaker 4: vote no and others vote know, and ultimately we don't extend.

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Speaker 5: Those tax cuts.

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Speaker 4: So I think the onus is on others to meet

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Speaker 4: us a little bit in the middle. The three trillion

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Speaker 4: is a lot to incentivize some other great provisions in

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Speaker 4: the one big, beautiful bill, the president's priorities on no

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Speaker 4: tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on

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Speaker 4: solid security, the AMT fix, the lower individual rates, the

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Speaker 4: lower business rates. My constituents want all of that, but

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Speaker 4: we don't want to have to pay for the bill

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Speaker 4: again like we paid in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 5: We wanted a little more fairness this time around.

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Speaker 3: Well, in Congressman, when you joined us a few days ago,

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Speaker 3: you told us that this idea of a forty thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars salt cap for individuals and eighty thousand for married

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Speaker 3: couples hadn't been explicitly put on the table. That was

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Speaker 3: something that was obviously in this discussion. Have you gotten

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Speaker 3: an explicit offer for a higher salt cap or is

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Speaker 3: that something you're expecting this weekend? Where do things stand?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that forty eighty a dynamic unfortunately, had a poisoned

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Speaker 4: pill in it in that there was forty eighty for

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Speaker 4: four or five years and a drop way down to

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Speaker 4: ten again for the next five or six years. That, unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: is a gimmick, it's a scam. It just perpetuates the

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Speaker 4: very thing my constituents and I are opposed to right now,

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Speaker 4: that's absurd, really low ten k cap. That was really

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Speaker 4: just a used car salesman trick that we didn't fall for.

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Speaker 4: We're going to continue to negotiate in good faith to

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Speaker 4: make sure that New Yorkers, New Jerseyans, and Californians get

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Speaker 4: their fair share because each of us are donor states.

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Speaker 4: Each of our states taxpayers send way more to Washington

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Speaker 4: then we get back. New York gets about ninety one

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Speaker 4: cents for every dollar it sends to Washington, while Missouri,

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Speaker 4: home state to the Tax Committee chairman, gets a dollar

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Speaker 4: sixty in Louisiana, home state to the Speaker, gets a

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Speaker 4: dollar seventy eight.

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Speaker 5: So we're not looking for a handout.

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Speaker 4: We're just looking for a fair share and an honest

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Speaker 4: negotiation on how we can move this ball forward.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know this is a big issue for you.

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Speaker 2: It's something you're passionate about. Congressman and members of the

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Speaker 2: New York delegation have been strident in their rhetoric in

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Speaker 2: some cases. Would you be willing to vote no on

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Speaker 2: this whole thing if it meant just eliminating the cap altogether,

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Speaker 2: if you can't come to terms on the rest.

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Speaker 5: If it eliminates the cap altogether. He count me in.

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Speaker 5: Let's book it as a yes, and let's move on.

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Speaker 5: If that's your question.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, would you have quote no if it

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Speaker 2: meant allowing that to reset to zero?

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Speaker 4: Oh, to have a ze, to have no deductibility on

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Speaker 4: the state and local taxes, whatsoever.

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Speaker 5: I'm going to.

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Speaker 2: Eliminate the cap to go back to where we were

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Speaker 2: before twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 5: That would do it for me. Count me in if

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Speaker 5: we eliminate the cap.

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Speaker 2: But would you vote no to get there?

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Speaker 5: Sorry? I don't understand your question.

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Speaker 4: No, I would vote yes on a bill that eliminates

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Speaker 4: the cap. Right now, the cap is ten thousand dollars.

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Speaker 4: They're offering thirty thousand dollars if they offer unlimited.

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Speaker 5: Count me in. Let's go, let's make America great again.

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Speaker 2: Does a chance this bill might not pass though according

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Speaker 2: to some congressmen, you may not see it that way.

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Speaker 2: If this whole thing falls apart, does that help you

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Speaker 2: enough in New York to eliminate this cap to put

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Speaker 2: up with not having the Trump tax cuts.

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Speaker 4: So here's how the negotiations is going to go. If

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Speaker 4: it falls apart, the bill falls apart in the next

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Speaker 4: couple of days, weeks, or months, everybody's gonna rush back

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Speaker 4: to the negotiating team, will say how can we salvage this?

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Speaker 4: And at that point in time, the reality will be

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Speaker 4: apparent to everybody else that what is on the table

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Speaker 4: at that point in time is unlimited salt, and then

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Speaker 4: we can negotiate down from unlimited rather than up from

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Speaker 4: ten thousand dollars. Now, I don't want to get there,

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Speaker 4: but that's the negotiating reality. As the President would say,

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Speaker 4: we have a lot of the cards in this negotiation,

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Speaker 4: but we.

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Speaker 5: Want to be professionals.

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Speaker 4: We want to be gentlemen about this, and we want

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Speaker 4: to do what's right for the nation. But at the

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Speaker 4: end of the day, you can't stick the blue states

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Speaker 4: with the bill for everybody else's tax incentives like what

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Speaker 4: happened in twenty seventeen. The political dynamic is much different

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Speaker 4: this time around. These blue state Republicans like Lawler and

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Speaker 4: Kim and others and Tom Kaine made our majority, and

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Speaker 4: we can't sell them out to pay for and fund

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Speaker 4: the rest of the tax cuts. We have to ensure

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Speaker 4: there's some equity in this bill, and we acknowledge those realities.

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Speaker 4: We'll get to Yes, we need to get to President's

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Speaker 4: agenda through. We need to have those overall great tax

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Speaker 4: incentives for America. The negotiations will continue through both in person,

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Speaker 4: over the phone, on text this weekend and we'll ultimately

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Speaker 4: get there.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 3: Of course, even if you can get there in the House,

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Speaker 3: it then goes to the Senate. Congressman, and what you're

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Speaker 3: describing the fact that there are Republican members from blue

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Speaker 3: states in the House is not an issue in the

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Speaker 3: US Senate. Are you concerned that the Senate might actually

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Speaker 3: reduce back at a higher salt cap you fought for,

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Speaker 3: or look at some of the pay fors that have

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Speaker 3: been suggested, whether it's Medicaid or rollbacks to the Inflation

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Speaker 3: Reduction Act. Make them go away, and then you have

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Speaker 3: a new problem in the House again when it comes

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Speaker 3: to the total tally.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so maybe we should invite you to our negotiating

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Speaker 4: team because those are the things that we're talking about

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Speaker 4: right now. We want to ensure that if we do

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Speaker 4: a deal here in the House, it's a deal that

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Speaker 4: will be ratified by both the Senate and the President.

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Speaker 4: So while we're having these discussions on the House side

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Speaker 4: right here, contemporaneous. We want to have some assurances from

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Speaker 4: others who are participating in this one big, beautiful bill,

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Speaker 4: they too will ratify exactly the deal that we come

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Speaker 4: to in the House.

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Speaker 5: That's an important measure.

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Speaker 4: We don't want to just take a vote for the

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Speaker 4: sake of taking a vote here in the House and

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Speaker 4: have our provisions die in the Senate. So what we

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Speaker 4: negotiate here before we get to a yes here has

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Speaker 4: to be assured that it will pass the Senate be

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Speaker 4: signed by the President.

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Speaker 2: So how's it going to work this weekend? Congressman? Bring

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Speaker 2: us behind the scenes if you would. Are there are

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Speaker 2: a series of meetings planned. You mentioned phone calls and texts.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you're going to get a phone call from President Trump.

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Speaker 2: But will will you be on Capitol Hill? Will you

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Speaker 2: be working in committee rooms? Or how does it come

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Speaker 2: together on a Saturday and a Sunday with a deadline

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Speaker 2: that you're facing.

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Speaker 5: So the House is not in session.

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Speaker 4: Many of my colleagues went home yesterday, but as you

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Speaker 4: can see from behind me, I'm still here on Capitol Hole,

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Speaker 4: eager to make this deal work. I will continue to collaborate,

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Speaker 4: not just members of the Salt Caucus, but those who

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Speaker 4: see this issue differently than me happy to work together

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Speaker 4: and as a conference, as a House Republican conference, we've

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Speaker 4: gotten through and over hurdles like this in the past.

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Speaker 4: I expect my colleagues from the Upper Chamber to work

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Speaker 4: in good faith as well, and certainly the cousin wants

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Speaker 4: to get this across the finish line. It is worthy

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Speaker 4: of the nation's attention, is worthy to that that we

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Speaker 4: work over the weekend and through the night, talk text,

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Speaker 4: in person, whatever it takes. ZOOM will continue to keep

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Speaker 4: the door open and keep the dialogue going to get

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Speaker 4: this one big, beautiful bill passed.

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Speaker 3: And are these negotiations going to be bilateral if you will,

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Speaker 3: between the Speaker's Office and the Salt Caucus or are

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Speaker 3: you going to have to include members of the Freedom

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Speaker 3: Caucus like Chip Roy and Ralph Norman, who obviously are

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Speaker 3: the ones that helped take this thing in the budget

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Speaker 3: in the first place. Are these trilateral negotiations?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think this is going to be an all hands

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Speaker 4: on deck effort, as it's been in the last couple

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Speaker 4: of days especially. We had a meeting yesterday in the

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Speaker 4: Speaker's office with members of the Republican conference whose politics

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Speaker 4: are much different. We had folks in there whose districts

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Speaker 4: Trump one by fifty and those who Harris one by three,

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Speaker 4: four or five, people with different constituencies, different priorities, different

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Speaker 4: views of the world. I think it's important that we

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Speaker 4: continue to talk with each other. I've been talking in

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Speaker 4: Texas with some of those folks here who come from

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Speaker 4: some of those.

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Speaker 5: Deep red districts.

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Speaker 4: You know, we all have to come together at the

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Speaker 4: end of the day to put this nation on a

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Speaker 4: better track. You know, we're a nation thirty six trillion

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Speaker 4: dollars in debt, two trillion dollar deficit. A lot of

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Speaker 4: folks who live in paycheck to paycheck. They're eager to

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Speaker 4: see Washington Republicans come together to ensure that we have

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Speaker 4: a tax bill and overall spending bill that's best for

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Speaker 4: our country. And we'll work with each other in regardless

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Speaker 4: of political persuasion to ensure that gets done.

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Speaker 2: Really important conversation, Congressman, really appreciate your being with us

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Speaker 2: shortly after the Budget Committee vote. That's Nicko lo Loto

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Speaker 2: with a working weekend ahead. As you just heard the

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Speaker 2: Republican from New York. We thank you as always for

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Speaker 2: joining here. On Bloomberg TV and Radio. We want to

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Speaker 2: add the voice of Laura Davison, our deputy bureau chief

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Speaker 2: here in Washington, d C. And one of our political

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Speaker 2: team leaders. Laura, it's great to see you. What you

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Speaker 2: just heard from the gentleman from New York. We're going

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Speaker 2: to stay the weekend. We're going to keep working on this.

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Speaker 2: Sounds just like Roy. I'm staying in Washington this weekend

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Speaker 2: to deliver. How about we get these two together to

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Speaker 2: figure it out.

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Speaker 6: It certainly seems like this bill is not advancing at

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Speaker 6: the rate that a House Speaker Mike.

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Speaker 2: Johnson want this.

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Speaker 6: You know, this sort of stunning defeat in the Budget

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Speaker 6: committee that doesn't happen. This is really a procedural rubber

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Speaker 6: stamp effort, and the fact that the bill was went

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Speaker 6: to committee knowing that it didn't have the votes and

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Speaker 6: then failed indicates that there are serious issues that, you know,

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Speaker 6: could really threaten the chances of this bill passing the

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Speaker 6: House next week as Mike Johnson has wanted. The House

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Speaker 6: then is at least scheduled to recess for two weeks,

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Speaker 6: means that they wouldn't be until mid June that they

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Speaker 6: picked this back up. I think we could see a

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Speaker 6: lot of schedule changing in the House if it looks

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Speaker 6: like things are falling back, as Loda, a representative of

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Speaker 6: Latoda just said, if things, you know, fallow apart in

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Speaker 6: the next couple of days, you expect to see people

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Speaker 6: rushing back to the negotiating table to figure out how

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Speaker 6: to salvage the medicaid issue, the salt issue, the spending issue.

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Speaker 6: All of this is of deep concern.

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Speaker 3: Well, and of course it's not just a deep concern

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Speaker 3: for Speaker Johnson, who wants to get this done, but

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Speaker 3: for President Trump too. When you have the President taking

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Speaker 3: to true social saying that we don't need grant standards

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Speaker 3: in the Republican Party, stop talking and get it done,

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Speaker 3: saying Republicans must unite behind the one big, beautiful bill,

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Speaker 3: and then hours later, five Republicans, although one was just

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Speaker 3: for procedural reasons, for Republicans really in the Budget Committee

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Speaker 3: decide to specifically not advance the President's bill. What does

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Speaker 3: that signal about his power in all of this.

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Speaker 6: It signals that he doesn't have the ability to keep

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Speaker 6: this party together. That's been his superpower through all of this,

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Speaker 6: is that he has been able to put out a

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Speaker 6: tweet saying people, hey, fall in line, and they have

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Speaker 6: right now, that is not the case that's happening. It's

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Speaker 6: clear the President is very frustrated with this process. That

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Speaker 6: a true social posts you just read that was in

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Speaker 6: a series of a long list of angry posts from

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Speaker 6: the president this morning about Taylor Swift. There was clearly

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Speaker 6: angry about a lot of things, from pop culture to

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Speaker 6: budget reconciliation.

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Speaker 2: I think that.

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Speaker 6: Covers the full gamut. But this is clear that he

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Speaker 6: has kind of from the top of this negotiation said, look,

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Speaker 6: get it done. I don't really care how you do it,

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Speaker 6: but just make sure these tax cut bills pass. As

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Speaker 6: you know, tariffs continue to percolate, you have people like

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Speaker 6: Walmart coming out saying price are going to rise. That's

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Speaker 6: even more mounting pressure on the White House to get

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Speaker 6: a tax bill done and quickly.

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Speaker 2: I want to go back to where you started here, Laura.

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Speaker 2: And first of all, the rarity of a bill failing

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Speaker 2: and committee like this in this a little bit of

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Speaker 2: egg on face, I'm assuming for the cheer unless Jody

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Speaker 2: Arrington was trying to make a point, but also what

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Speaker 2: this means potentially for the long term status of this bill.

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Speaker 2: Are we making too much of this to suggest that

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Speaker 2: this whole thing could fall apart? Or it's simply about

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Speaker 2: getting everyone back in a room and coming up with

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Speaker 2: a plan B.

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Speaker 6: Those are sort of the two options here. One, this

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Speaker 6: may be a small blip and in a couple of

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Speaker 6: days they've they've ironed out these details, they had that

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Speaker 6: little bit of a public embarrassing moment and decide, okay,

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Speaker 6: let's move forward with unity. It could also mean that

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Speaker 6: this is just you know, sort of the signs of

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Speaker 6: deeper troubles to come. I'll also note that you have

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Speaker 6: senators already coming out a Republican senator saying that they

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Speaker 6: won't support this bill. They can't support this bill. There's

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Speaker 6: going to be need to be big changes, you know,

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Speaker 6: scaling back some of these Medicaid cuts. That's a real

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Speaker 6: that's something that House members are thinking about, particularly moderates.

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Speaker 6: They don't want to have to take a tough vote

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Speaker 6: on a bill that really scales back something may be

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Speaker 6: unpopular in their district and then have that totally rewritten

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Speaker 6: by the Senate. So you're seeing a lot of political

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Speaker 6: considerations not just between you know, House Republicans, but also

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Speaker 6: between House and Senate Republicans of where what is a

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Speaker 6: bill that can get fifty you know the fifty one

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Speaker 6: fifty in the Senate and two eighteen in the House.

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Speaker 6: That's not an easy feat.

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Speaker 3: Well, and when you talk about Medicaid cuts in particular,

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Speaker 3: obviously for chip Royan Code, that is part of their

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Speaker 3: problem is these new rules around work requirements for example,

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Speaker 3: aren't supposed to kick in for several more years. They

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Speaker 3: would like to see it kicking in sooner. Was there

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Speaker 3: a reason that this wasn't supposed to happen until twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty nine? Are they trying to get around issues potentially

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Speaker 3: in the mid terms until changes are made. Why wouldn't

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Speaker 3: they have just done it from the jump?

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Speaker 6: The reason is is why you know, the these tax

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Speaker 6: cuts are set to expire, you to put all the

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Speaker 6: juicy stuff, the stuff that people like, at the beginning,

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Speaker 6: and you put the tough stuff at the end of

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Speaker 6: the budget window. So twenty twenty nine, I'll note that's

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Speaker 6: when after the twenty twenty eight president election, after the midterms,

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Speaker 6: the stuff that people aren't going to like and are

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Speaker 6: going to feel the impacts of. That's a future Congress

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Speaker 6: is problem, and they give and It also gives this

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Speaker 6: Congress a lot of time to potentially repeal that if

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Speaker 6: you want to. There's a lot of things we've seen

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Speaker 6: Congress do this time and time again. If they have

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Speaker 6: to do something unpopular, they have to make a decision

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Speaker 6: to raise some revenue, we'll put that in the future

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Speaker 6: and then you know, that's that's a problem for another day.

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Speaker 2: We've seen Donald Trump flip votes before. One of these

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Speaker 2: no votes came from Ralph Norman. He got a phone

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Speaker 2: call from Donald Trump last time the speaker's a job

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Speaker 2: was at risk. In about ten minutes later, he got

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Speaker 2: off the cell phone and changed his vote. Could we

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Speaker 2: see something along those lines, We very much could.

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Speaker 6: You know, Trump is clearly whipping this bill himself though,

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Speaker 6: both in public as well as in private, making calls

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Speaker 6: to members he wants to get this done. It's interesting

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Speaker 6: to see, though, how many people are willing to buck

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Speaker 6: him on what is this is supposed to be Republican's

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Speaker 6: signature legislative achievement, and it's not clear right now that

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Speaker 6: they can do that well.

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Speaker 3: And when we consider that, and to come back to

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Speaker 3: the idea that the midterms are next year, is this

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Speaker 3: House conservative saying Okay, we're probably going to lose the

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Speaker 3: House in twenty twenty six. Therefore, we need to make

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Speaker 3: this exactly what we want now. This is our last

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Speaker 3: chance to actually do something more dramatic when it comes

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Speaker 3: to debt and deficits and basically saying the majority is

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Speaker 3: going to be lost anyway, or that they still think

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Speaker 3: they can rock this hard line and retain the majority

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 6: That's what they're publicly saying, but privately House Republicans know

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Speaker 6: that there's a very strong chance that they could lose

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Speaker 6: the chamber. That's just kind of the tradition. History suggests

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Speaker 6: that's a very much a possibility. But this is where

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Speaker 6: the tension is. You have the hardline are saying let's

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Speaker 6: get everything that we can get done right now, and

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Speaker 6: you have the moderates, you know, people who want sold

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Speaker 6: and others saying, don't cut Medicaid for my district. I

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Speaker 6: need to expand salt. Those are the things I need

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Speaker 6: to get reelected. And the only way you House Republicans

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Speaker 6: have a majority is if we have these districts around

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Speaker 6: New York in southern California. So you have two sort

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Speaker 6: of very much competing visions at.

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Speaker 2: Odds here he's a President Trump on his way back

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Speaker 2: from Abu Dhabi today saw quite a number of posts

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Speaker 2: on social media. As you guys suggested, we'd only have

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Speaker 2: this one, the Taylor Swift post the President of the

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Speaker 2: United States. Has anyone noticed that since I said I

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Speaker 2: hate Taylor Swift, she's no longer hot. What's going on

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Speaker 2: on that airplane?

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Speaker 6: It's uh Trump coming down from the high that he

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Speaker 6: had in the Middle East. He was showered with praise.

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Speaker 6: He had horses, there were dancers, there were you know,

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Speaker 6: the whole spectacle. And you know, he also didn't get

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Speaker 6: a lot of sleep. He went very late every single night.

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Speaker 6: One colleague mentioned, it's like when your child has a sleepover,

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Speaker 6: comes home. Had this also the fun doesn't get any sleep,

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Speaker 6: and then suddenly they're cranky and in a bad mood

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Speaker 6: the next day.

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Speaker 3: I just want to know what he saw.

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Speaker 2: Who was he talking to?

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Speaker 3: Did someone start playing Taylor Swift on Air Force oneiday?

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Speaker 2: Taylor was in the air.

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Speaker 3: We'll have to wait for answers for another day.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps.

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Speaker 3: Laura Davison, Washington, Deputy Beer chief for US here at

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg with US on Balance of Power. So I guess

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Speaker 3: she's no longer hot.

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Speaker 2: That's what he says.

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Speaker 3: I didn't news to me.

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Speaker 2: You'd know this more than I guess, So maybe we'll

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Speaker 2: play that to the panel. Next. We've got a good

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Speaker 2: one today, Roger Fisk, Lisa Camuso Miller their take on

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Speaker 2: a breaking news day here in Washington. We'll have a

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Speaker 2: lot more straight ahead on Bloomberg TV and radio alongside

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00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 2: Kaylee Lines. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Balance of Power

443
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 2: only on Bloomberg.

444
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch

445
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,919
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

446
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

447
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,360
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

448
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,879
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

449
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,880
Speaker 2: News tends to break every day around twelve noon. When

450
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 2: we come on the air, We're ready for it. That's

451
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,159
Speaker 2: why we meet here every day. Happen again today, as

452
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,840
Speaker 2: we're going to discuss with our panel in just a moment,

453
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 2: the one big beautiful bill the President's talk so much

454
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 2: about couldn't even get through with the Budget Committee, and

455
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 2: so it is back to the drawing board on Capitol

456
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,880
Speaker 2: Hill with a bit of a protest by the Freedom

457
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,879
Speaker 2: Caucus slowing things down. We've also got a breaker on

458
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 2: the terminal right now, and it's coming from the Federal Reserve.

459
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 2: Don't confuse this with a Doge story, because they may

460
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,920
Speaker 2: not be related. We're just learning this now at Bloomberg

461
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,719
Speaker 2: as the FED announced as plans, or we're reporting, plans

462
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 2: to shrink the Fed's workforce by about ten percent. Job

463
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 2: cuts are coming to the Fed. It'll happen over the

464
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 2: next several years, mainly through attrition. According to people familiar

465
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 2: speaking with Bloomberg. The Fed's going to be offering deferred

466
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 2: resignations to some workers, according to sources we're talking about.

467
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 2: And so the shrinkage continues here in Washington, whether Elon

468
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,439
Speaker 2: Musk is in town or not. And we assemble our

469
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 2: panel here on the Friday edition, and we've got a

470
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 2: good one for you. Roger Fisk is back, former special

471
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 2: advisor to President Obama, our Democratic strategist, and of course

472
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 2: the great Republican strategist. Lisa Camuso Miller, former RNC Comm's director,

473
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 2: host of the Friday Reporter podcast, who spent a good

474
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 2: chunk of her career working for a Republican Speaker of

475
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 2: the House, not this one, but she's seen this movie before.

476
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 2: And Lisa, I'll start with you on what just took

477
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 2: place here could even clear committee. What does that tell

478
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 2: us about the long term forecast for this legislation?

479
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 7: Well, Joe, I think it means that there is a

480
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,199
Speaker 7: long way to go and we're not going to get

481
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 7: to the rules committee on money then that is for certain.

482
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: That allows time for recovery. Though for Speaker Johnson, is

483
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 2: this a bump on the road? Chip? Roy just needs

484
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 2: to feel better. How do you get around this roadblock?

485
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,440
Speaker 7: I'm not certain how they can, And in fact, I think,

486
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 7: if anything, this is going to be a weekend where

487
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 7: they're going to work really hard to try to get

488
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 7: this through. But once again, I mean this goes back

489
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 7: to this whole strategy that comes from the White House

490
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 7: at about a big, beautiful bill, right, And the House

491
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 7: said that they didn't think they could get it done,

492
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 7: and the Speaker said they didn't think they could get

493
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 7: it done, and the Senate didn't think they could get

494
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 7: it done, and they were right. And so I think

495
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 7: a lot of what's happening here is you know, you

496
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 7: have an up and down vote in the budget there's

497
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 7: no opportunity in Budget Committee, so there's no opportunity for amendments.

498
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 7: You've got four members of the Freedom Caucus that are

499
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 7: in the Budget Committee, and those guys are absolutely They

500
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 7: were hard lined no before they even went to the

501
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,719
Speaker 7: committee this morning. So this isn't terribly surprising. But what

502
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 7: was supposed to happen is they were supposed to come

503
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 7: to agreement. The bill was supposed to get out of committee,

504
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 7: was supposed to come from all the relevant committees. They

505
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:11,919
Speaker 7: were supposed to get it all together and get it

506
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 7: off to Rules Committee for a Monday vote.

507
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 8: Just feels like it's not going to happen.

508
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 7: And so that to me tells me exactly what I

509
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 7: expected to see happen. It's what people have been saying

510
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 7: all along. This is a much much longer road to go.

511
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 7: The Speaker is really eager to get this done by

512
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:26,239
Speaker 7: Memorial Day.

513
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 8: It just doesn't seem like it's going to happen to me.

514
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 2: How many people have come on the air to say, yeah,

515
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 2: give them to the end of the year. Meet me

516
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 2: in September. Roger the Freedom Caucus sent to tweet they

517
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 2: know the phone's going to be ringing soon.

518
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 9: Here.

519
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 2: Ralph Norman's in for it, right, Remember Donald Trump rolled

520
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 2: Ralph Norman and the most recent speaker vote took one

521
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: phone call. It was say, ten minutes later, it went

522
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 2: back and voted again. They together sent out a tweet

523
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 2: here these are the objecting representatives led by Chip Roy.

524
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 2: We were making progress, it says, before the vote and

525
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: the Budget Committee, and will continue negotiations to further improve

526
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 2: the reconciliation package. We're not going anywhere, and we will

527
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: continue to work for the weekend. Roger Fisk, what will

528
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 2: happen this weekend?

529
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 10: A lot of long, detailed, frustrating conversations that, to Lisa's point,

530
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 10: probably go nowhere.

531
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 5: And thank you for having me.

532
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 10: And it's wonderful to be here with Lisa.

533
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 5: You know.

534
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 10: It's kind of the curse of the three bes, right,

535
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 10: it's the Biden administration tried to do build back better.

536
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 10: Now this is the big, beautiful bill, and I think

537
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 10: every administration would be well served by looking at their predecessor,

538
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 10: be a friend or foe, and learning from the mistakes

539
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 10: and the successes. And one of the mistakes of the

540
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 10: Biden administration was going with the Build Back Better bill

541
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 10: that was just too big and too broad and too vague.

542
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 5: And the more you.

543
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 10: The bigger a bill is, the bigger there are kind

544
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 10: of definitions of what beautiful are within that. And then

545
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 10: you have hardliners like Congressman Roy like you mentioned, Congressman

546
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 10: Norman Andrew Clyde, who Ralph Norman says is against this,

547
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 10: but I guess by now is probably on record as

548
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 10: definitely being against it, and that gives license to some

549
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 10: of the other members of the Gop House to create

550
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 10: some separation. Normally, this should have happened in the first

551
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 10: one hundred days when the incoming administration has momentum and

552
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 10: a lot of goodwill.

553
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 8: But this is post Signal Gay, post.

554
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 10: Katari plane post a couple stumbles where some of those

555
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 10: frontline Republicans, when you throw in the salt issue and

556
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 10: some of the other things that we've talked about earlier

557
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 10: this week, that they realize maybe there's more value in

558
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 10: having a little distance from the president than voting to

559
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 10: kick a couple hundred thousand people off healthcare in their district.

560
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 10: And that's the dynamic that's they're going to try to

561
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 10: align this weekend, and it'll be a steep climb for.

562
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: The speaker noted, this is we're now living in the

563
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: post Katari plane era of the Trump administration. The plane

564
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 2: after the plane. That's right, we're in now ap territory.

565
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: Did you hear what Roger just said? Did you come

566
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 2: up with that build back better, big beautiful bill? Are

567
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: there parallels here?

568
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 5: Roger?

569
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 7: You're a messaging genius And I love that you said that.

570
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 7: I've been laughing since you did. I mean, really, it

571
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 7: just does seem like it's politically tone deaf, and it's

572
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 7: it's you know, a little more of the same. It's

573
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 7: it's just to me, like, here we go again. And

574
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 7: you're absolutely right, show that plane. Really, I think took

575
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 7: a lot of the political out of this, out of

576
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 7: this trip. So not only you know, look, this Bill

577
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 7: may have had.

578
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 8: You know, Trump is going to come back.

579
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 7: He's going to celebrate, He's going to be pleased with

580
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 7: how all the deals that he made while he was

581
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 7: there and all the things that have happened, and the

582
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 7: only thing that overshadowed all of that was this silly

583
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 7: plane that he wanted to take back.

584
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 9: Right.

585
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 7: But it's the difficulty here, too, is that he had

586
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,479
Speaker 7: built up a lot of really good momentum, momentum that

587
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 7: was going into this big, beautiful bill, and then the

588
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 7: tear of discussion started to happen. And that I think

589
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 7: the timing up all of that is really going to

590
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 7: make it even harder, right because I have heard other

591
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 7: folks smarter than me talk about how the carriages are coming.

592
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 7: All of the containers are coming from China and they've arrived,

593
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 7: and so the shit, the excuse me, It's about to

594
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 7: be very difficult for people to be happy with the

595
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 7: way the economy is running.

596
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: You guys are on a roll. Roger chip Roy tweeting himself,

597
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 2: this is not the caucus now, this is the individual

598
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 2: We're making progress. He says, what the vote was called

599
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: and the problems were not resolved, so I voted no.

600
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: He says, I'm staying in Washington this weekend to deliver

601
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 2: Medicaid work requirements must start now, not twenty twenty nine.

602
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: And the green new scam, he says, must be fully repealed,

603
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: as President Trump called for. You would think that this

604
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 2: is a message to Democrats having an argument from the

605
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: other side of the eye. Are Republicans arguing with Republicans

606
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: about the Green new scam.

607
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 10: It's amazing to me that people still refer to the

608
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 10: Green New Deal as if it became law at some

609
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 10: point and when in fact it's still essentially kind of

610
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 10: like a philosophical construct on behalf of the squad and.

611
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 5: Things like that.

612
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 10: The climate and the clean energy elements of what Biden

613
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 10: actually did were much more focused on infrastructure jobs and

614
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 10: retrofitting buildings and things like that than they were about

615
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 10: some fundamental paradigm shift about how the country fuels itself.

616
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 10: But you see ads and attacks all the time that

617
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 10: refer to the Green New Deal as if it's part

618
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 10: of the law of the land, when in fact it's not,

619
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 10: And that to me plays into the performative nature that

620
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 10: we're seeing on all sides. So you have your Thomas

621
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 10: Massey's and these other people that are more than happy

622
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 10: to slow these things down. And I used to say

623
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 10: this with Speaker McCarthy. You know, I would imagine Speaker

624
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 10: Johnson gets up a couple days, you know, why can't

625
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 10: I just move back to Louisiana and have a normal life.

626
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 10: This has to be incredibly frustrating because they have full

627
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 10: control of the government, just as in the first two

628
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 10: years of the first Trump administration. They couldn't even get

629
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 10: their votes aligned to fund the wall. We're seeing that

630
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 10: same kind of dysfunction play out now.

631
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 2: You know what, Roger doesn't think, God, life was even

632
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: better in the radio business. Lisa, please go ahead. What's

633
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: your response because I want to hear your take on

634
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: what's going to happen this weekend.

635
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 7: Well, what I was going to say was that that's

636
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 7: the traditional playbook, and that would be that the President

637
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 7: is in the White House and the Republicans in their

638
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 7: House and the Senate. But it's the president himself that

639
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 7: makes this so much more difficult. I mean, he continues

640
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 7: to make news. It used to be that there was

641
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 7: sort of this cadence between the White House and the Congress,

642
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 7: and that's no longer the case. The President continues to

643
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 7: push forward with this slash and burn and all of

644
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 7: the things that are happening, and it's making it more

645
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 7: and more difficult for people to really enact change. So

646
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 7: what would ordinarily be like a trifecta of great things

647
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 7: that could happen. Because Republicans are in power, they're working

648
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 7: against each other really, and that's I think what makes

649
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 7: it even hard.

650
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: Well, bring us behind the scenes this weekend, Lisa, how

651
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: does this work? Are they going to be in a

652
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: committee room in the House. Are they going to be

653
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: in an office building somewhere. They're going to be bringing

654
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: in takeout? Are they wearing shorts and sandals? What happens

655
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: over Saturday and Sunday that could change the picture by Monday.

656
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 7: I think it's a lot of all of that, Joe.

657
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 7: I think everybody has a lot of stick and they

658
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 7: really want to see it happen, and so they're going

659
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 7: to bring in every free source that they can. They're

660
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 7: going to be having meetings late today into tomorrow. They're

661
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 7: going to be having calls, They're going to be working

662
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 7: the phones. They're going to be doing everything they can

663
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 7: to try to find levers that they can pull in

664
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 7: order to get this to the Rules Committee. Because also too,

665
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 7: the Republican House really does want to deliver for the President.

666
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 7: They really do want this bill to get done. So

667
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 7: I do think that they're going to call out all

668
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 7: the stops. The difficulty here is that you've got this

669
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 7: Salt group, the group from the Northeast primarily, that are

670
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 7: going to fight like heck to make sure that sal

671
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 7: gets done. Right, and then you've got the Freedom Caucus

672
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 7: that are working in the opposite direction. So if you're

673
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 7: Mike Johnson, the point that maybe running home to Louisiana,

674
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 7: it sounds pretty sweet. It does seem like this is

675
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 7: a really, really hard job. But I think he's the

676
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 7: right guy for the job. It seems to me like

677
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 7: he has the right tone and tenor, and he has

678
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 7: got the right people around him that are helping him

679
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 7: make good choices, and that that is this. Look, we've

680
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 7: seen two speakers walk away from this job, two Republican

681
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 7: speakers walk away from this job, and there's a reason.

682
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 7: It's because it's really hard to govern with so many

683
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 7: different factions in the party right now. And that's exactly

684
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 7: what we're seeing play out in real time.

685
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: You wonder if they make another run at him depending

686
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: on how this goes here. What's Hokkeem Jeffery's doing this

687
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: weekend Rogers? He's watching TV having a chuckle chop the

688
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: speaker do his work, Yeah.

689
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 10: Popping popcorn, letting it, you know, play out. The president

690
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 10: has been the greatest unifying force for the Democrats, but

691
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 10: this additional fratricidal tension just makes it that much easier

692
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 10: for the Democrats to a avoid news cycles and let

693
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 10: this play out with as much coverage as possible, because

694
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 10: this really forces some of those frontline Republicans at least

695
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 10: it was just mentioning to potentially take some difficult votes.

696
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 10: And so for the Democrats, they largely just want to

697
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 10: make sure that they don't stop the Republicans from digging

698
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 10: their hole.

699
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: Wow, time to order the takeout and the wine, boys

700
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: and girls, because we're hunkering down for a working weekend.

701
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: What a great panel.

702
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

703
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

704
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,480
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705
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,880
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706
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

707
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us on the Friday edition. You

708
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: made it to the threshold of the weekend Ballots of

709
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: Power every day on Bloomberg Radio on satellite radio channel

710
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: one twenty one and on YouTube. Find us right now

711
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: by searching Bloomberg Business News Live. Because we've got news

712
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: high noon in Washington and it didn't even get out

713
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: of committee. That's where we stand now with the one

714
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: big beautiful bill, as Donald Trump calls it, that we

715
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: have talked so much about. It failed to pass the

716
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: Budget Committee. This was supposed to be a key moment

717
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: after all the wrangling, the eleven bills come together, assembled

718
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: into one big beautiful bill by the Budget Committee, so

719
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: rules could then accept it next week and it would

720
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: go to the floor for one big beautiful vote. Apparently

721
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: this is not happening. The line coming out of the

722
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: Budget Committee chair for members, I do not anticipate us

723
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: coming back today. Jody Errington speaking there the final tally

724
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: twenty one sixteen. So who's getting a phone call from

725
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: Donald Trump tonight? He's on his way back from Abu Dhabi.

726
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: He's got time. He's sitting on the jet with the phone.

727
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 2: A lot of people in the other ear Here's the list.

728
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: You don't have to look further than the terminal Republican representatives.

729
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 2: You can recite it for me, Chip Roy, Ralph Norman,

730
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: Josh Britsheen, Lloyd Smucker, and Andrew Clyde voting with Democrats.

731
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: If you're not too familiar with the process, it is

732
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: incredibly rare for something like this to not even get

733
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: out of committee. What is the speaker going to do now,

734
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: It's where we start our conversation with Maya McGinnis watching

735
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: this all happen from her perch as President of the

736
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. Maya, it's great to

737
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: see you. We've got breaking news here and I've got

738
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: a lot of questions for you, as always, But based

739
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: on what we just saw and heard on Capitol Hill,

740
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: is there a chance that one big, beautiful bill never

741
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: passes at all?

742
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:49,239
Speaker 9: Uh?

743
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 11: Well, first off, what timing is this?

744
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 5: Right?

745
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 9: This?

746
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 12: I'm just still processing everything just happened after watching the

747
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 12: whole hearing.

748
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 11: I don't think that's the way the story ends. I

749
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 11: think that this proceeds.

750
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 12: After there are some negotiations and some changes to accommodate

751
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 12: the fiscal hawks who voted against it.

752
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 11: I think it goes out of the House.

753
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 12: I think then you have another massive, massive showdown with

754
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 12: the Senate, which is unwilling to even do some of

755
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 12: the reforms that the House have included. Ultimately, and I've

756
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 12: been saying this for a while, I think it could pass.

757
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 11: As a massive budget buster as.

758
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 12: It is currently, or it could be just temporary extensions

759
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 12: and limping along to continue to figure it out. But

760
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 12: those fiscal hawks are not comfortable with the borrowing debt

761
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 12: is in the bill, and I sympathize with them.

762
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 8: It's huge.

763
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about busting the budget here, Maya, because

764
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: as always, the Committee has done quite a bit of

765
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 2: work looking at at least what we believe what we

766
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: have now in terms of legislation, and what it might

767
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: mean for the deficit and debt moving forward. The developing

768
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: House Reconciliation Bill, is you right, is shaping up to

769
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: add roughly three point three trillion dollars to the debt

770
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: through fiscal year thirty four, set up the stage for

771
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: more than five point two trillion dollars of additional debt

772
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: if policymakers ultimately extend temporary provisions. And that might be

773
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 2: right where we are, Maya, because Speaker Johnson needs to

774
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: sweeten the pot for salt Republicans and he needs to

775
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 2: cut even more to make the Freedom Caucus happy. So

776
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: are these numbers going to be even worse?

777
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 11: Yeah, there's a couple of points.

778
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 12: One part of a big part of this bill is

779
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 12: just temporary tax cuts. Remember we're in this situation right

780
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 12: now because there are a bunch of temporary tax cuts expiring,

781
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 12: and you've got the Senate saying, oh, we shouldn't have

782
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 12: to pay for them, because we always meant for them

783
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 12: to be permanent. They made them temporary so the bill

784
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 12: would be smaller when they first passed them in twenty seventeen,

785
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 12: and now they're saying they shouldn't have to pay for them.

786
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 11: And yet in the very same breath, they're also so far.

787
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 12: In the House and the Senate, and I assume we'll

788
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 12: do the same thing putting in new tax cuts on

789
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 12: a temporary basis. So it's really arguing I mean, baselines.

790
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 12: People are sick of basins, I'm sure, but multiple lines

791
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 12: at one time. Don't charge us for extending things, don't

792
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 12: charge us for the full cost if they're temporary. So

793
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 12: there is a very strong chance that these tax cuts,

794
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 12: if they're put in place, will be extended, because it

795
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 12: always plays out that way. So the price seg will

796
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 12: be much larger there. And then two, to your point,

797
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 12: they're not done negotiating the salt. Folks don't think that

798
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 12: a thirty thousand dollars gap is enough. They want to

799
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 12: up it. This is a very intensive bill and the

800
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 12: fiscal hawks would not be comfortable doing that in a

801
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 12: way where it's just definite finance, they'd want more off sets.

802
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: We talked to Nicole malliet takus about that around this

803
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: time yesterday. The Republican from New York has this incredible

804
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: scenario in which she has to straddle her sitting on

805
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: the Ways and Means Committee with her membership in the

806
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 2: Salt Caucus. So they got to thirty thousand dollars, raise

807
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 2: the cap to thirty up from ten. Here's what she

808
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: told us yesterday about what that means for her districts.

809
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 13: Salt right now is roughly it's about two hundred and

810
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 13: fifteen billion. We want to stay within that piece. Now

811
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 13: that may mean we need me to adjust the dials.

812
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 13: A tripling of the deduction to thirty thousand dollars covers

813
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 13: ninety eight percent of my district. Now what I've liked

814
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 13: to hire number Sure, you know, but it's not what

815
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 13: you want, it's what you need.

816
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: Here's the problem, Maya. She wasn't even allowed in a

817
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: meeting with Salt Republicans because or the other day, because

818
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: of her role on the Ways and Means Committee. This

819
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: is how chippy it's gotten on Capitol Hill. Does the

820
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: issue of Salt as a singular issue here threaten this

821
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 2: bill the most.

822
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 12: It's interesting I saw that interview and I thought, oh,

823
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 12: I wonder how people will respond to that. Because the

824
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 12: Salt group is die hard on this issue. Is it

825
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 12: the biggest threat. I don't think it's the biggest threat.

826
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 12: I think the biggest threat is the fiscal conservatives.

827
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 11: I think it's the debt levels.

828
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,479
Speaker 12: I think it is the more that that bill hangs

829
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 12: out there and people understand that you are talking about

830
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 12: adding three to five trillion from this version, and like

831
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 12: I said, I think it gets worse, not better. I

832
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 12: think the real threat is that they're just enough Republicans

833
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 12: who've been talking about the need for fiscal responsibility and

834
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 12: spending cuts. They cannot stomach, no matter what the talking

835
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 12: points are, they cannot stomach a bill that would add

836
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 12: to deficits and debt. That's where I see it could

837
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 12: break down. The Salt folks should be very happy with thirty.

838
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 12: They're still negotiating. They'll negotiate to the last minute. It's

839
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 12: incredibly expensive.

840
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: And there's that from Miami, Guinnis to us right now,

841
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: May You're going to get the emails just like I am.

842
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 11: Yeah, I sure am, and I know this is the

843
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 11: only group that's scarier is the seniors when you say

844
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 11: something about not adding new benefit.

845
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 12: But you know, there's a strong and interesting case, and

846
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 12: people don't appreciate this. But why would states that are

847
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 12: low tax states be subsidizing high tax states when those

848
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 12: high tax states are getting something in return.

849
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 11: They are getting benefits, they are getting programs. These are

850
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 11: the decisions the states make.

851
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 12: So it's difficult to say, well, you you have fewer benefits,

852
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 12: so you should subsidize ours, which is really what it is.

853
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 11: I'm getting it.

854
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: We're getting to the part of the matter. Yeah, I'm

855
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 2: in big trouble. I'm going to go home after this.

856
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 11: Sorry to bring you down.

857
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 2: Spending time with Maya McGuinness here as if you're just

858
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 2: joining us. The bill failed in the Budget Committee, the

859
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 2: leadoff to the big beautiful week that was going to

860
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 2: end with a floor vote next week. Maya, you've been

861
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 2: through this a couple of times. What do you think

862
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 2: happens next? Looks like they're not coming back today. Could

863
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 2: Speaker Johnson still pull off a floor vote next week?

864
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 11: I think it could.

865
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 12: I'm not saying that it's certain at all, but I

866
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 12: certainly think it could. First, I've been amazed because every

867
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 12: time I look at where they are, I'm like, I

868
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 12: don't see how you get to the next step, And

869
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 12: they have, and I think cherr Rington has done a

870
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 12: great job kind of making everybody feel heard through this.

871
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 12: I think there are some trades that could happen. It

872
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 12: seems to me that some of the holdouts might say,

873
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 12: in return for or we want you to have, we're very,

874
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 12: very uncomfortable with how these tax cuts expire. And then

875
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 12: the savers don't phase in until after President Trump leave's office.

876
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 12: They wait four or five years, right, so it's all

877
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 12: backloaded the savings that never happened to instructure that way.

878
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 12: I could see them insisting that the savings is moved

879
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 12: up and that becomes something that would entice them to

880
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 12: vote this out of committee, and then there might be

881
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 12: some space for salt there. Again, I don't think there

882
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 12: should be, and it's so expensive hard to do it,

883
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 12: but I think that's what it is. It's moving up

884
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 12: some of the savers that might get some folks to

885
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 12: buy in.

886
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: So you're saying there's a chance.

887
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 11: Boy, I think it depends on what the President has

888
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 11: to say. As well. I'm sure they will be hearing

889
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 11: from him, and well.

890
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. We've seen him turn Ralph Norman around before.

891
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if Chip broy is taking that phone

892
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: call today, Maya, this is going to be a really

893
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: interesting twelve hour period to track. Maya mcguinnis in the clutch.

894
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 2: How about that at high noon here on Bloomberg. Where

895
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 2: else are you going to hear that? With the President

896
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 2: of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. I see you,

897
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: Matt Miller. If you want to email me, you can.

898
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: I'm trying to ask the right questions here as we

899
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 2: find our way to a deal on salt. It'll happen eventually,

900
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 2: according to Maya mcguinnis, and maybe we will see a

901
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: vote next week. Of course, if it happens, we'll experience

902
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: it all together. Here on Bloomberg, we're gonna have a

903
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: special conversation coming up next with the former Congressman from Virginia,

904
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: Denver Riggleman. He's in Dubai, investing in Ai his view

905
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 2: on the President's trip. Next right here on Bloomberg.

906
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

907
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

908
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 1: Apple Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

909
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

910
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

911
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 2: You know when to tune in. This is a routine now, right.

912
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 2: You start at twelve eastern high noon because you know

913
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 2: there's going to be breaking news in Washington, whether the

914
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: president's in town, which he's not right now, on the

915
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 2: way back from the Middle East, and we're going to

916
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 2: talk about his trip in a moment with Rigglemann or

917
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue where we had a

918
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 2: breaker high noon, the Budget Committee fails to pass what

919
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 2: the President calls one big beautiful bill. Yeah, if you're

920
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 2: just joining us, we need to catch up on this.

921
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 2: Chaired Jody Errington, delivering the news a short time ago. Listen, Well,

922
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: the nos have it.

923
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 14: The committee stands in recess, says, subject to the call

924
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 14: of the Chair, I want to thank everybody for their

925
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 14: time and patience and godspeed and safe travels.

926
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: God speed and safe travels, saying later dryly for members,

927
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 2: I do not anticipate us coming back today. The final

928
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 2: tally twenty one to sixteen. As you heard it, Jip Roy,

929
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 2: Ralph Norman, and company voting with Democrats to sink the bill.

930
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: This coming just an hour or two after President Trump

931
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: went on social media truth social calling on Republicans to

932
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 2: unite behind one big beautiful Billy said stop talking and

933
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: do it. Well, guess what, Chip Roy is still talking

934
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: and at the moment, there is no way forward here.

935
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: It was supposed to clear budget today rules on Monday

936
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: to the floor in time for a big, full smash

937
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: vote ahead of Memorial Day. That was supposed to be

938
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 2: the plan. Now we're picking up the pieces, or back

939
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: to the drawing board, or whatever cliche you suggest. Somebody

940
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: who's been through the throes of debates like this, staring

941
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 2: down the barrel of a deadline, in this case, to

942
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: a looming debt limit expiration, is Denver Riggleman. Now we're

943
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 2: going to talk to Denver. I thought we were going

944
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: to be talking about a couple different things here, and

945
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: we are because Denver spent the week. Our former Republican

946
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 2: congressman from Virginia, who you know from this program, has

947
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 2: spent the week overseas, just as President Trump did Denver

948
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 2: now helps to run and has founded an AI company,

949
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 2: which is what brought him over there. We're going to

950
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: get into some of the investments and the important turn

951
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: toward innovation in the Middle East with Denver, who's joining

952
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 2: us right now live from Dubai. I've got to ask you, though, Denver,

953
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: I guess this is why partly you're not in Congress anymore.

954
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: What just happened in budget. These are members of the

955
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 2: Freedom Caucus who sank the bill that President Trump says

956
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: needs to pass. Is this thing dead? Can the Speaker

957
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: find a plan? B?

958
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 9: It's not dead, but it's on life support. You know,

959
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 9: I know all of them, right, Joe, and you know.

960
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 9: I've known Chip, I know Ralph, I know Jody, I

961
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 9: know him very well, and you know Jody can sometimes

962
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 9: be pretty practical. But Ralph and Ship, once they dig in,

963
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 9: they're going to dig in. So I think what we're

964
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 9: looking at right now is you're going to ask for

965
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 9: concessions in order to get that out of committee.

966
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 8: And I don't know if everybody's going to be willing

967
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 8: to do those concessions.

968
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 9: So I think you're going to see a couple of

969
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 9: days of crazy up there on the Hill and with

970
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 9: Jody coming up and saying, oh, we're not coming back today. Yeah,

971
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 9: there's going to be a lot of discussions and screaming

972
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 9: and yelling tonight, you know, I know.

973
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 8: So that's what's happening. And right now, like bred, that's what.

974
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: Okay, the phone calls are going out too, right President

975
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 2: Trump is on air Force one with nothing to do

976
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 2: but talk.

977
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, who knows, you know what he's saying

978
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 9: right now? I mean, but I got a feeling that

979
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 9: the phones are lightened up all over DC.

980
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,479
Speaker 2: Incredible. Whether or not we see a floor vote next week,

981
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's important with regard to timing

982
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 2: for this speaker Denver. But is is Donald Trump still

983
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: the facto speaker or does Mike Johnson have any levers

984
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: to pull?

985
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 9: Mike Johnson has no lovers now, I absolutely none. It's

986
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 9: gonna be what Donald Trump says to do. And we've

987
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 9: known that since the beginning when Mike was elected speaker,

988
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 9: and as you know, I know Mike also. But I

989
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 9: think what you're seeing right now is Donald Trump tried

990
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 9: to push this train at this.

991
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 8: Big, beautiful bill.

992
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 9: But there are still certain realities that happen especially in

993
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 9: the Freedom Caucus and how districts vote. And you might say, well,

994
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 9: they have to be completely behind Donald Trump. They have

995
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 9: to completely do these type of things, but there are

996
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 9: still some things they just can't go against. And when

997
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 9: you're looking at this massive deficit push and what's happening

998
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 9: with our debt and deficit, what happens is they're looking

999
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,399
Speaker 9: at a midterms that's a crash and burn. And I think, Joe,

1000
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 9: that's what you're looking at. You're so worried about crash

1001
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 9: and burn midterms and right now they're more worried about

1002
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 9: winning their election and supporting Donald Trump.

1003
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 8: I'm telling you right now, that's what's going on.

1004
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 2: Amazing. It's not often I get to talk to you

1005
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: when you're in Dubai and I want to hear about

1006
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: your week. I want to I want you to help

1007
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: us frame what we just saw on the president's journey.

1008
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,959
Speaker 2: Because you're there with the first hand experience. We should

1009
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 2: let everyone know that not only does former Congressman Denver

1010
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 2: Riggleman run a distillery in beautiful northern Virginia, well, I

1011
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 2: guess central Virginia, but he also runs an important security firm,

1012
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 2: the rig Security firm and now hoodle Ai, a health

1013
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: tech and security firm that has made Denver Wriggleman one

1014
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 2: of the only people I've ever met who knows what

1015
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: it's like to buy a Blackwell chip. Speak to me,

1016
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 2: Denver about the tens of billions of dollars that we

1017
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 2: saw unlocked in the Middle East this week. What this

1018
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 2: means for countries like the UAE, but also entrepreneurs like yourself.

1019
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 9: Well, you know, sometimes you have to separate, you know,

1020
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 9: how you feel politically when you're doing business.

1021
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 8: But it's very difficult to here.

1022
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 9: And some of the things that we saw were disturbing

1023
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 9: over here, the way that you know, Trump wanted to

1024
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 9: make his interest in things like that. But I will

1025
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 9: say this for us, this started over.

1026
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 8: A year ago.

1027
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 9: This was such a dynamic place to do business anyway,

1028
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 9: well before Donald Trump came over here. But there is

1029
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 9: an unlocking of technical and financial transfers going on. And

1030
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 9: you know what Bloomberg reported this six days ago. You

1031
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 9: guys did on siphius, right, the Committee for Foreign Investments

1032
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 9: in the United States, and how they're going to have

1033
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 9: dreamline those actual regulatory issues and what does that mean

1034
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 9: for the UAE and for other places here in the

1035
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 9: Middle East, like Saladi or Qatar. What that means is

1036
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 9: that you're going to have much more, much quicker, more

1037
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 9: efficient technology transfer outside of the SIFI. This type of

1038
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 9: regulatory structure that you have to use, and that was

1039
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 9: something that I did not know was going to happen.

1040
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 9: I actually read it when you all reported it, and

1041
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 9: I was on the Financial Services Committee, Joe, so I

1042
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 9: actually know how sciphius works. So for me, the unlocking

1043
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 9: of the potential here, I believe we already had American

1044
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 9: companies coming here. I think that American companies, specifically by

1045
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 9: the UA, have been invited to come in here and

1046
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 9: do business. And what we've seen is incredible a reception,

1047
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 9: courtesy and respect. As we're here with our AI company,

1048
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 9: I've never seen anything like it, Joe, to be.

1049
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 2: Honest, Huh, that's incredible. So this is a new frontier

1050
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 2: obviously for high tech. Is it an answer to our

1051
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 2: decoupling with China?

1052
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 8: You know, I think a lot of people talked about

1053
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 8: that here.

1054
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 9: You know, I don't like to there's so much pride

1055
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 9: and respect that the immortis have when they're having discussions

1056
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 9: with you, especially when they find out you're a former congressman.

1057
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 9: They actually sometimes push away from politics because they don't

1058
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 9: want to get that way of business. It is such

1059
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 9: a respectful culture, and that's something that I've tried to

1060
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 9: respect as we're going on here. But what you're looking at,

1061
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 9: I think the UAE what I was told by somebody

1062
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 9: very high up in one of the emirates.

1063
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 8: You know, I've been listened to you. I've been from.

1064
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 9: Abu Dhabi to Dubai, all the way up to rassof Kema.

1065
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 9: I've met with the highest you know, some of the

1066
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 9: highest I would say positions in some of these areas.

1067
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 9: And what they're saying is like there, listen, hey, you know,

1068
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 9: nobody's ever going to be the United States, but we

1069
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 9: do believe that we can be the answer right for

1070
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 9: technology and for growing other companies from the United States,

1071
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 9: but really being that answer to other countries that might

1072
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 9: be looked at as threat countries. But you have to

1073
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 9: remember too, UAE does business everywhere. It's a dynamic, diverse,

1074
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 9: accepting environment. As long as you follow the rules, right,

1075
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 9: you have respect, right, you go forward in a way

1076
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 9: that's very very legal. We've even had discussions with individuals

1077
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 9: asking us about can our AI help with compliance. So

1078
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 9: there's so much going on here. But again I think

1079
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 9: the UAE looks at themselves and also I would say

1080
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 9: Saudi and culture. As we're going forward here, I think

1081
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 9: they look as the lynch pin in the global world

1082
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 9: for a dynamic building of companies and tech services and

1083
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 9: manufacturing and what we've seen here.

1084
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 8: I had some stories jobh me and you have a

1085
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 8: Bourbon sometime. The stories here.

1086
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 9: About the growth of American companies is pretty extraordinary.

1087
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: Well, but this is extraordinary. We saw Jensen Wong there

1088
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 2: with Donald Trump in the Middle East talking about selling

1089
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 2: millions of chips in the UAE. When we consider the

1090
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: diversion rule from the Biden administration that came in at

1091
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: the last minute, it made this impossible for some of

1092
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: the countries that you're visiting this week, Denver. Do we

1093
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 2: look back at the Biden administration as a misstep on

1094
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 2: the march to innovation and AI? Are they righting the wrong?

1095
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 9: It's actually a really great question, I think though, when

1096
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 9: you're looking at China specifically. You know, also when I

1097
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 9: was on the Financial Services Committee, I had to go

1098
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 9: to South America and talk about the Belton Road initiatives

1099
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 9: from China, which is really a bread to us economically,

1100
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 9: and we can go on that. I was on the

1101
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 9: China Task Force, so I would say that that Joe

1102
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 9: Biden had a very difficult decision on how you protect

1103
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 9: actually against Chinese practices and what we do with our

1104
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 9: chip makers and our.

1105
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 8: Dominant technology, like with Navidia.

1106
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 9: I think what you're seeing now as we're seeing where

1107
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 9: this change in the worldscape is, you're looking at security

1108
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 9: structures that are being actually talked about over here right now.

1109
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 9: And I think what you're seeing with the UAE, they're

1110
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 9: actually pledging that they're going to have those security structures

1111
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 9: in place right to guard against any type of I

1112
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 9: would say, illegal IP transfer between China, right and US

1113
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 9: companies that are coming over here.

1114
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 8: You know, last year when I was here, you know,

1115
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 8: this is my second time.

1116
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 9: Last year, we were actually talking about Navidia chips and

1117
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 9: working through attestations for the State Department to see if

1118
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 9: we can do it, and it was really a no go.

1119
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 9: So it's very interesting to me that Navidia now has

1120
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 9: a play over here. But I do think there could

1121
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 9: be some security serns. But looking at the UAE, they

1122
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 9: have been trying to address that down the line, and

1123
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 9: it's something I've been very blunt about. And again they're

1124
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 9: very respectful when I talk about things, but you know, Joe,

1125
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:00,959
Speaker 9: I still got to be me right and I still

1126
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 9: got to actually outline the things that I think.

1127
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 8: That's just the way I'm wired. But these are again

1128
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 8: I do believe, and.

1129
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 9: I'm going to say this cautiously, I do believe that

1130
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 9: you see a new security posture here in the UAE

1131
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 9: that's saying, listen, you come here in American companies will

1132
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 9: be protected, and that is some of the assurances we've

1133
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 9: been getting over here.

1134
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 8: Now is that true, we'll see. But right now, from

1135
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 8: what I've seen with.

1136
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 9: The UAE, with Dubai, with Abu Dhabi, all the way

1137
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 9: up to the northern province of russ came up, I

1138
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 9: think that we're having I think we're having a resurgence

1139
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 9: and looking at security and them as being allies to

1140
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 9: us in this region. But again it's trust would verify.

1141
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 9: But they also think the same about us in some

1142
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 9: ways too.

1143
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 8: So it's very interesting.

1144
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 2: Wow, this sounds like a fascinating trip for you, Denver.

1145
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 2: You've got to come see us, and let's distill everything

1146
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: that you experienced. I want to hear more about the

1147
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 2: investments you secured and the rest of it when you

1148
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: get back to town. So come see us here in Washington,

1149
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 2: of course, and travel safe when you get home. The

1150
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 2: former congressman from Virginia, Denver Riggleman, with his AI company,

1151
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 2: his secure already firm, and life in politics, not to

1152
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 2: mention his experience in the Air Force in the national

1153
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 2: security space behind him really interesting and we'll have more

1154
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: to discuss with Denver, maybe over that Bourbon Can we

1155
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 2: do that here, may think maybe on the Friday edition

1156
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 2: if producer Change lets us. Thanks for listening to the

1157
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you

1158
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts,

1159
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 2: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington,

1160
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 2: DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.