1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: I have that two thousand and eight feeling. The excitement 3 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: is real. I think it's happening from the ground up. 4 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 3: I feel two thousand and eight excitement right now, and 5 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 3: I think we have a real opportunity here America. 6 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 4: Hope is making a comeback. Welcome to our Democratic National 7 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 4: Convention edition of voter Nomics, the Bloomberg podcast where politics 8 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 4: and Markets collide. All year, we've been talking and talking 9 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 4: about how voters around the world have the ability to 10 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 4: move markets, countries, and economies like never before in twenty 11 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 4: twenty four, and we're focusing now on US voters ahead 12 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 4: of the November election. I'm Stephanie Flanders, hosting from Chicago, 13 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 4: where the convention is underway, and with me from the 14 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 4: Bloomberg White House team. Very glad to say senior reporter 15 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 4: Josh Wingrove, thanks for being here, Thank you for having me. Well, 16 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 4: we're taking this on Wednesday, we should say, so it's 17 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 4: more than halfway through the convention. I think we're knee 18 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 4: deep in vibes. There's been a lot of discussion about 19 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 4: the vibes. So it's not a week for policy wonts, 20 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 4: but we have been doing our best to resist that 21 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 4: with round tables with some key figures in the party 22 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 4: and advisors to Kamala Harris at the Bloomberg Hub where 23 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 4: we're sitting right now, which is just down the road 24 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 4: from the convention hall. But inside, I would say it's 25 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 4: been a week for Democrats to get all fired up 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 4: and potentially excite some voters sitting at home with this 27 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 4: just very recently improved ticket of Kamala Harris and Tim Walks. Josh, 28 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 4: you are very young, but you're not so young. I 29 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 4: think you probably still can remain the two thousand and 30 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 4: eight is making a comeback here. 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: Not as young as I used to be. I remember 32 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: two thousand and eight very well. Hope is making a 33 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: comeback if you talk to the people here, which is 34 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: to say, Democrats are indulging themselves and letting them speak aloud. 35 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: This thought that, oh my gosh, could the sort of 36 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: broad coalition that elected and swept Obama to power sixteen 37 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: years ago come together again? And of course that's a 38 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 2: big change from a month ago when Democrats were pretty 39 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: despondent in sort of a public friendly war about whether 40 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: to you know, dump or pressure Joe Biden to step away. 41 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: But there is a sense that Harris has momentum, and 42 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: in particular, I think we're seeing that sort of change 43 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 2: expectations depending on what you ask. Certainly, in the House, 44 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: Democrats seem very confident that they're going to have a 45 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: really good shot at taking back the House of Representatives, 46 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: making Kakim Jeffries the speaker. And from there it gets 47 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: a little mess here. And so we you know, we've talked, 48 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: for instance here with the Pennsylvania governor. He thinks his 49 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 2: state is both the tipping point state, which is, you know, 50 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 2: to say, the one that will decide things and a 51 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 2: toss up. And so it just goes to show you, 52 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: like how we're really down to the wire here. But 53 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 2: you're right, from a policy perspective, it's you know, it's 54 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 2: not just a ViBe's election at the convention. We're having 55 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: a ViBe's election in general. 56 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I was very struck watching the former President 57 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 4: Obama on Tuesday night his speech here in Chicago, which 58 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 4: definitely had allusions to the electrifying one that he gave 59 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 4: in Boston in two thousand and four. As a little note, 60 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 4: Senator I was lucky enough to that was the last 61 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 4: convention I was at. But as you say, there's no 62 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 4: getting around the fact, even with all these great vibes, 63 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 4: the country is still split down the middle. And you 64 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 4: have maybe forty six percent of voters who had died 65 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 4: in the world supporters Donald Trump, maybe even a bit 66 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 4: more enthusiastic now than they were a month ago, and 67 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 4: something close to that, strongly supporting the Democrats and certainly 68 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 4: opposing Donald Trump. So just that small middle ground to 69 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 4: play for. You mentioned Governor Josh Shapiro. We had an 70 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 4: event with him that you were at here in the 71 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 4: Hub just this morning, and you know, he's the governor 72 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 4: of the must win swingy as state of all and 73 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 4: this is how he described the situation. 74 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 5: Our last two presidential election races in Pennsylvania settled by 75 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 5: about a point or less forty four thousand votes and 76 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 5: eighty thousand votes in a state of thirteen million people 77 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 5: over nine million registered voters. So the fact that races 78 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 5: are close in Pennsylvania is really not something that is 79 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 5: surprising as we look forward with that history, I think 80 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 5: it's important to note that the gap that existed between 81 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 5: Trump and Biden has really been closed. I think your 82 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 5: outlets have all done polling, maybe it's plus one minus one. 83 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 5: I think we're statistically even at this point. And what 84 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 5: I think Vice President Harris and Governor Wallas have done 85 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 5: really effectively is build the coalition back together and be 86 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 5: in a position where we're what seventy seven days seventy 87 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 5: eight days out and really be, as I describe it, 88 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 5: on the forty nine yard line in Pennsylvania. You can 89 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 5: pick up forty eight or forty nine yards. It's that 90 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 5: last yard and a half to get on the other 91 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 5: side of the field that is really really tough. How 92 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 5: do you do that? Obviously, we've got important urban centers 93 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 5: in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. The Philly suburbs are incredibly important, 94 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 5: and as we proved in my election and others have 95 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 5: as well, these rural areas are areas where Democrats have 96 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 5: to compete. We know in twenty sixteen we didn't do 97 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 5: as well as we needed to in those areas. I 98 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 5: will tell you I think those rural areas are fired 99 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 5: up for Donald Trump. I don't think we should pretend 100 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 5: that they're not. But what I have experienced in just 101 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 5: the last few weeks that Kama Harris has been leading 102 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 5: the ticket is when I'm in those communities and I 103 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 5: camp out there, I spend a lot of time there 104 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 5: as governor. They'll come over to me and say, hey, 105 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 5: what do you think of her? You know her, what's 106 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 5: the deal? And I say that in no way to 107 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 5: be disparaging. I say that because there's a genuine interest 108 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 5: and curiosity in her candidacy. And that's a good sign. 109 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 5: I'll tell you what else is a really good sign. 110 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 5: She and Tim showed up there. What was it three 111 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 5: four days ago? I think it was on Sunday, if 112 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 5: I'm not mistaken. In Beaver County. They went to one 113 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 5: of these rural communities, think like kind of rural area 114 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 5: outside of Pittsburgh, and they went and talked about cutting costs, 115 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 5: and they went and talked about economic issues. If you 116 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 5: remember back, you know, we all remember Barack Obama having 117 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 5: huge rallies in Philly. What a lot of people don't 118 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 5: remember is his first rally was in Beaver County. That's 119 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 5: a county the Democrats have been losing for years. I won, 120 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 5: and that's an area where we have to be competitive. 121 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 5: And so the fact that people are curious about her candidcy, 122 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 5: the fact that she showed up there and talked about 123 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 5: issues on their minds. Really really gives me a lot 124 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 5: of hope and OPTI miser for that last that last 125 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 5: yard and a half. It's so difficult to come by 126 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 5: in our stay. 127 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 4: Gummor Shapiro was was sort of cautiously optimistic. He saw 128 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 4: a lot of energy on the ground, but that there's 129 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 4: a lot more for them to do, right. 130 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And Harris herself is trying to pump the brakes 131 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: as well, because it's good to be confident, but complacency 132 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: is a different animal. That's what they're worried about. You know, 133 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: I think this is all happening at unprecedented speed. I 134 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: think we shouldn't lose sight of that. I mean, you know, 135 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: one of the arguments a month and a half ago 136 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: was that they're simply for keeping Biden, was that there 137 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: simply wasn't time to build the plane in mid air 138 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: that they are now building. And so the you know, 139 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: I think for Harris, she has inherited a party that 140 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: has done a couple of things. Number One, rallied completely 141 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: around her in the matter of an hour, it felt 142 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: like on that Sunday. Another thing is that her position 143 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: at the top of the ticket has also really taken 144 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: a lot of states off board that were competitive now, 145 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: so we're gonna have a more focused election, whereas previously 146 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: Trump was thinking he was going to break through in 147 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: you know, Minnesota, Virginia, maybe New York, New Jersey and 148 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: what might be sort of a fantastical. 149 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 4: That's so we're going to see a lot of big 150 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 4: rallies in. 151 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: So we're snabbing right back down to what it was 152 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: about seven or eight swing states. I think broadly position 153 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: for Harris now. The question is how much meat do 154 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: I want to put on this bone. She has taken 155 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: steps to keep doors open, not close them, including if 156 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: that leaves egg on her face by saying forget what 157 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 2: I said five years ago, I actually believe the opposite now. 158 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 2: So I think that is the level set that we 159 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: should expect for the next seven years so days whatever 160 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: the campaign will be, which, by the way, in other states, 161 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 2: it's only half that with early voting kicking in something 162 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: soon here, I would expect her to continue to risk 163 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: embarrassment by backtracking on policies to open pathways for her 164 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 2: or leave open the question of what she things, rather 165 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: than her pinning a policy list on the wall and 166 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: saying this is what I stand for. It they don't 167 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 2: think that's their path. 168 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 4: That was interesting. So we had We're sitting in the 169 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 4: room where we've had some of these events at the 170 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 4: Bloomberg Hub, and there were two quite senior policy advisers, 171 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 4: d Kamala Harris who spoke to us, Harris who spoke 172 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 4: to us just a few hours ago, one of whom 173 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 4: had been her chief of staff when she was in 174 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 4: the Senate. And it was striking how little information they 175 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 4: could give when you talk about putting meat on the bones. 176 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 4: We had this kind of sketch of her economic proposals 177 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 4: last week. When are we going to find out how 178 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 4: she's going to pay for this renewal of the child 179 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 4: tax credit and the support for homeowners? And then I 180 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 4: realized that they were referring to that speech as their 181 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 4: most detailed speech that they were going to give, really 182 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 4: and it just brought home to me how many questions 183 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 4: there are unanswered, and crucially this debate with Donald Trump 184 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 4: on September tenth. I mean, we were asking these advisers 185 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 4: about foreign policy, Josh, do you expect to have any 186 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 4: substance on what President Kamala Harris how she would approach 187 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 4: foreign policy between now and the debate, I. 188 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 2: Think it's a coin flip about whether they're going to 189 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 2: try to put something in the window before the debate. 190 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: What they have said is look at her record, So 191 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: let's talk about a record on foreign policy. Hawk on Ukraine, 192 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: for sure, she would continue Biden's approach of seeing it 193 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: as a priority for the US not only to send 194 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 2: support to Ukraine directly, but to continue to try to 195 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 2: muster an alliance and sort of global coalition to support 196 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 2: Ukraine in its fight against Russia. So I think that 197 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: one is clear. I don't expect an in daylight on 198 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 2: that one. In Gaza, it's more murky. She has tried 199 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 2: to sell the same policy as Biden in a different way. 200 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: For instance, she calls for a ceasefire and then says 201 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 2: Hamas has to agree to it, whereas Biden says Hamas 202 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: has to agree to the ceasefire. So it's just little 203 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 2: differences like this. But yeah, difference not really a difference. 204 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: There's a rhetorical difference. But in their live's election, rhetoric 205 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 2: is perhaps everything. But you're right, we were sitting here 206 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 2: looking at, you know, this small bone with flicks of 207 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 2: meat on it and saying where's the rest of it? 208 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 2: And they're saying it's right in front of you. Enjoyed. 209 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 4: This is the detail to go back to where we started. 210 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 4: But you had raised a wild card in that conversation 211 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 4: with the advisors, which I have to admit I'd not 212 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 4: been focusing so much on because it sounds so so 213 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 4: much wishful thinking. But you know, this possibility that the 214 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 4: Democrats could win the Senate and House of Representatives as 215 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 4: well as the presidency, is that really plausible? I mean, 216 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 4: certainly the people who had taught me through some of 217 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 4: these races earlier in the year, it just looked like 218 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 4: a big ass, particularly in the Senate, because every Senate 219 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 4: seat being contested pretty much is democratic. They can't afford 220 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 4: to lose even one. 221 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bad map for them this year. They're 222 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: going to lose West Virginia. They have fifty one seats. 223 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 4: Now, I guess we should just remind people outside the 224 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 4: states way the elections. 225 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 2: Wait, yeah, why the map is the crowd? This is 226 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: the grash course. They there are very few senators in 227 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: America who represent a party other than the dominant party 228 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 2: in that state. In other words, you got red states. 229 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 2: You have blue states. They didn't have two red senators 230 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: or two blue senators. Very few divided. West Virginia's divide 231 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 2: and Joe Manchiin isn't running again, and that is no 232 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 2: one expects that to seat to stick with the Democrats. 233 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: It'll flip hard to the Republicans. 234 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 4: Because many people didn't consider him to be a temper 235 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 4: correct correct. 236 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: He was sort of a dying breed of red state democrat. 237 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 2: And so now that the starting point is fifty to fifty, 238 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: it basically all comes down to more or less Ohio 239 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 2: and Montana, two red states where Democrats have incumbent senators 240 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 2: shared Brown and Ohio John Tester and Montana. We're trying 241 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: to hold on basically running at arms length from Harris 242 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 2: and even more and when it was Biden, they were 243 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 2: running it miles length from Biden, trying to sort of 244 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: squeak by still against Democratic headwinds that have been shifting. 245 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 2: So can it happened for Democrats? Can this wave that 246 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: is maybe building or maybe cresting, It's unclear. If it's 247 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 2: just a building wave that will continue as momentum, then 248 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 2: Democrats might become the dog that caught the car and 249 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: then suddenly they in that scenario would be almost certain 250 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 2: that they would have the House by a fairly healthy margin. 251 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 2: Maybe Harris gets selected, and then of course, maybe they 252 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: sweep by in the Senate with a fifty to fifty 253 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: tie that the Vice President Tim Walls, Harris's running mate, 254 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 2: could split ties in so they can ram stuff through. 255 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: Suddenly they get what's called a reconciliation bill, which is 256 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: a grab bag of stuff that they can push through. 257 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: You can do one of those a year or so, 258 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 2: and this, you know, now it's a question of wish list. 259 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: Right So right now they're like quite a long way 260 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 2: away from that, correct Right So, right now, beating Donald 261 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: Trump is enough. And we have seen not a hint 262 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 2: really of policy dispute among Democrats at this convention. They 263 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 2: are perfectly fine to break out the same song sheet 264 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: and you have a show of unity. They can continue 265 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 2: to do that quite easily if Republicans hold at least 266 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: one chamber, because you have a boogeyman, and by definition 267 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 2: you're constrained by what has to be a by part 268 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: as an agreement. If they catch the car, if they 269 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: get all three, if this is some kind of wave 270 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 2: that's been building, then Harris is going to have to 271 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: decide what she. 272 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 4: I think lack of opposition is probably a problem that 273 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 4: they would like to face. But I'm struck that it's 274 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 4: the one thing, even with all these good vibes, it's 275 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 4: the one thing that they do seem to be superstitious 276 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 4: about even thinking about. In the UK and actually I 277 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 4: think quite a lot of other countries, the custom in 278 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 4: any election is not to jinx it and never talk 279 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 4: as if you assume. 280 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: That you're going to win, or assume. 281 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 4: Here it's mandatory even if you don't have a chance 282 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 4: in hell. You have to talk describe yourself as the 283 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 4: next president or the next senator. So we will see, 284 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 4: but gosh, thank you very much. 285 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: Thank you. 286 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 4: So on the sidelines of the convention, in my continued 287 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 4: efforts to inject substance into the vibes, I sat down 288 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 4: with Heather Bouchet, an economist who previously served as the 289 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 4: president and CEO of the Washington Center for Equitable Growth 290 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 4: and at the Center for American Progress, among other things. 291 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 4: She does now currently serve as a member of President 292 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 4: Joe Biden's Council of Economic Advisors, but she spoke to 293 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 4: me very much in her personal capacity, and what I 294 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 4: wanted to hear from her was what she thought about 295 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 4: this ticket and the emerging economic plan in so far 296 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 4: as we've seen it from Vice President Harris Heather, thank 297 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 4: you very much for doing this. I should also ask 298 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 4: you with this your first convention. 299 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 3: No, this is my second convention. But now I'm very 300 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 3: excited to be here, and you know, God to hear 301 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 3: the presidents speak last night and to see actually the 302 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 3: Vice president speaking. You know, she talked a little bit 303 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 3: about her economics. But it's very exciting to be able 304 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 3: to be a part of this historic moment. 305 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 4: And did you always know you were coming? I just 306 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 4: wondered whether if you, like me, were thinking a couple 307 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 4: of months ago that this was not necessarily going to 308 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 4: be a fun event to attend. 309 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 3: I had made my reservations many many months ago. I 310 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 3: think it's important, especially for those on the ECON team 311 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 3: in general. You know, I think about economics, to see 312 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 3: what people are talking about in terms of the economy, 313 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 3: what are the questions on people's minds, and that helps 314 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 3: us think about what kinds of policy issues we want 315 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 3: to focus on. 316 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: Now. 317 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 4: I mean, you are you're sitting in the White House 318 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 4: or I guess adjoining the White House because most people 319 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 4: end up there's no room in the White House for 320 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 4: most of the officials who work there. I'm fascinated just 321 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 4: on a personal level, how it's been to be sitting 322 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 4: there the last few weeks as the election has just 323 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 4: been turned on its head. I mean, how has that 324 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 4: felt like on the inside. 325 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 3: Well, I can see a couple of things. I Mean, 326 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 3: the reality is is that the economy is this huge 327 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 3: HiT's this huge beast, and there's so much that has 328 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 3: been moving forward, and so I have been really focused on, 329 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 3: you know, watching where the numbers are coming in, what's 330 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 3: happening with jobs and inflation and all of these sorts 331 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 3: of questions, and you know, in thinking about how the 332 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 3: policy agenda that the President and the Vice President put 333 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 3: out many months ago when they put forth the budget, 334 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: they are teeing up a whole set of policies that 335 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 3: we want to do to make sure that we continue 336 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 3: to see an economy that delivers for working families. So 337 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 3: those are some of the questions that continue to be 338 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 3: important in front and center. 339 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 4: Regardless of he's on the top of the ticket. All Right, 340 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 4: it sounds like I'm not gonna be able to get 341 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 4: you on all the sort of personal misgivings or not 342 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 4: of what's happened. But I mean on that point, and 343 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 4: you sounded a little bit like it even just then. 344 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 4: You know, one criticism that's been leveled at the was 345 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 4: leveled at the Biden Harris campaign was that there was 346 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 4: too much focus in those campaign speeches on the past achievements, 347 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 4: and he almost seemed to be sometimes telling people they 348 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 4: should feel better about the economy than they actually were. 349 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,719 Speaker 4: I mean, do you recognize that as a criticism. 350 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 3: Gosh, looking back over the past four years, the United 351 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 3: States and around the world, we've all been through the Ringer, 352 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 3: this global pandemic. It upended economies. We saw how because 353 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 3: of these global supply chains that were so fragile, we 354 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 3: had these really big price bikes because you know, people 355 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 3: couldn't get to work and things couldn't get made, and 356 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 3: we saw all of these challenges, and I think what 357 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: I've learned as an economist is that it takes a 358 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 3: while for that to work through an economy. But it 359 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 3: also you know, I think you hear people being frustrated 360 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 3: that things aren't better as quickly as maybe they would like, 361 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 3: or and I think this is really an important piece 362 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 3: of the puzzle for a lot of people. The economy 363 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 3: wasn't working before the pandemic. You know, here in the 364 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 3: United States, we've had half century of rising economic inequality. 365 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 3: Families were struggling with affording care and education and in 366 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 3: housing and all of these things pre pandemic. And there 367 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 3: was this moment during the pandemic where policymakers gay families 368 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 3: a lot of support, and a lot of people change jobs, 369 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 3: and there's a lot of opportunity. We've actually seen three 370 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 3: years now of historic new business startups. And yet I 371 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 3: think you know now that much of that aid has 372 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 3: started to fade or has been pulled back. I think 373 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 3: people are sort of like, well, wait a minute, how 374 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 3: is this new economy going to work for me and 375 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 3: my family? And so I think the fact that a 376 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 3: lot of investments have been made, but they aren't quite 377 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 3: being being felt yet. 378 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 4: Even in a normal circumstance, if you had vice president 379 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 4: running for president, there's always that balance that he or 380 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 4: she would have to strike between talking up the achievements 381 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 4: of the administration they were involved with, but also pointing 382 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 4: to the unfinished business. And I guess that I guess 383 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 4: there's a feeling that with the Biden campaign that there 384 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 4: was too much focus on all the great things you've done, 385 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 4: the big bits of unfinished business. I mean, you've touched 386 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 4: on some of them. 387 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 3: So first of all, I think one big piece of 388 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,719 Speaker 3: unfinished business that I think does need to be mentioned 389 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 3: is that so much of this administration has done has 390 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 3: been about investing in the United States all across America, 391 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 3: investing in communities, investing in new manufacturing capacity, investing in 392 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 3: making and clean energy economy. All of that needs to continue. 393 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 3: But there are these big ticket items that we haven't 394 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 3: been able to that still need work. And so one 395 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 3: of those, of course is housing. We've seen challenges in 396 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 3: insufficient housing supply. We've seen that it just did cost 397 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 3: too much for families. It was really exciting to see 398 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 3: the Vice President come out with a set of policies 399 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: it would increase housing supply. We also need to make 400 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 3: sure that for those families that have kids that in particular, 401 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 3: that they get the help and the support they need. 402 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 3: And so I was also really excited to see that 403 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 3: the Vice President came out with a pretty robust plan 404 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 3: to provide an expansion the child tax credit. For children 405 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 3: in their first. 406 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 4: Year of RUSS but also quite expensive. 407 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 3: Certainly well supporting families. 408 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 4: You didn't talk about how it's going to be paid for. 409 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: She did talk about, though, increasing the corporate tax rate 410 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 3: to twenty eight percent, which has been a part of 411 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 3: the budget that she and the President worked one. 412 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 4: Pile of the budget before you committed to increasing the 413 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 4: under the child tax credit. 414 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 3: It was, but I think it's signals that she has 415 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 3: committed to making sure that we fix the tax system 416 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 3: in the United States so that it is more fair, 417 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 3: so that corporations pay their fair share. And you know, 418 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 3: we'll have to see where her campaign goes and everything 419 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 3: that certainly is a part of the budget. In that 420 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 3: process which she has been a part of in the 421 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 3: White House, there has been a robust agenda to raise 422 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 3: taxes at the top. The President has long made this 423 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 3: commitment to not increase taxes on I mean, making anyone 424 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 3: making less than four hundred thousand dollars a year. But 425 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 3: what the President is shown through those budgets is that 426 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 3: you actually can do that math. It is possible to 427 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 3: have a robust tax agenda to be able to pay 428 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 3: for things like making sure that families have that tax benefit. 429 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 3: And of course that's in contrast to the proposals that 430 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 3: you know, Donald Trump is put forward, which are just 431 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 3: you know, again and again tax cuts for the very 432 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 3: wealthiest on the backs of the middle class that are 433 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 3: not going to lead to the kinds of growth or 434 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 3: improvements in middle class well being that I think we 435 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 3: will see under. 436 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 4: I mean, one of his proposals which was not so 437 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 4: directly focused on the rich and was many economists that 438 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 4: just sort of greeted as being totally stupid, was about 439 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 4: not taxing tips. And now Kamala Harris has also endorsed 440 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 4: that proposal, So I mean, that is one that surely 441 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 4: is an economist, you wouldn't necessarily think it was a 442 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 4: good idea. 443 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 3: Well, certainly, you know the vice president's come out for 444 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 3: the President's come out for it. I think that there 445 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 3: has long been a challenge for low wage workers in 446 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 3: this country, and you know, certainly both the President and 447 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 3: Vice President been very clear that we need to raise 448 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 3: them inimum wage. We need to make sure that those 449 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 3: workers that you know serve food for us in restaurants 450 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 3: alocassic country, and you know, make sure that you're. 451 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 4: Going to cut taxes just if it's called a tip, 452 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 4: but not if it's called regular wages. 453 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 3: This is part of a larger package to make sure 454 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 3: that those workers are paid a fair and days pay. 455 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 4: Another proposal that was in her speech in North Carolina recently, 456 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 4: which was the sort of first hints at some of 457 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 4: her economic proposals, was as a push against price gouging, 458 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 4: which where she seemed to suggest certainly in the speech 459 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 4: she talked about price controls in groceries and key goods. 460 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 4: So I'm just again that's something where economists, even people 461 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 4: who've done relatively little economists economics, just doesn't sound like 462 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 4: a good idea when something is in short supply to 463 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 4: stop producers from raising the price. 464 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mean, I'll see a couple of things 465 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 3: on this. I mean, first of all, now I think 466 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: what she was, what I heard her talking about the 467 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 3: speech and the fact she and the stuff that she 468 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 3: wrote about there is that you know, we know that 469 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 3: prices are too high. 470 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 2: We know that. 471 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 3: You know, we've seen over the past year grocery prices 472 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 3: have increased by just over percent one point one percent. 473 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 3: That's down from increasing by thirteen percent, you know, back 474 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two. So certainly there's been progress on that, 475 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 3: but we have seen that the groceries have not brought 476 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 3: prices down, And I think what she has been focused 477 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 3: on is that there are too many corporate actors that 478 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 3: have been acting in bad fate. They haven't been passing 479 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 3: on their lower prices onto consumers. And of course it 480 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 3: is the case that there are price gouging laws and 481 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 3: states all across the country, including in Texas. And in fact, 482 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 3: what she has proposed is similar to what Republicans in 483 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 3: the Senate have proposed. Now we know that in this economy, 484 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 3: making sure that markets are competitive so that they can 485 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 3: benefit consumers and workers and families and communities is a 486 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 3: really important part of the economic agenda. Things have become 487 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 3: far tooconomically concentrated, and it does mean that making sure 488 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 3: that bad faith actors can't take advantage of the situation 489 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 3: is a really important part of the policy agenda. 490 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 4: I guess that just seems a bit of a disconnect 491 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 4: because a lot of the discussions, the sort of explanations 492 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 4: we've had since you know, she talked in the speech 493 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 4: about price controls, we talked about groceries. It was in 494 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 4: the context of talking about the kind of things you've 495 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 4: just talked about, you know, the big rise in grocery 496 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 4: prices over the last few years. But then when when 497 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 4: her advisors have spoken about the details, she suggested that 498 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 4: it would really only be in very specific sort of 499 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 4: natural disaster hurricane in the local market. You stop the 500 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 4: local grocery from like gouging the people there, and that's 501 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 4: that we're doing that, which arguably you could do anyway 502 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 4: with the rules that are already in place. It is 503 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 4: very different from addressing the overall rise in the grocery 504 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 4: prices over the last couple of years. So it sort 505 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 4: of feels like there's a disconnect between the rhetorics surrounding it, 506 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,239 Speaker 4: and then when cornered what the proposal actually is. 507 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 3: Well, I think that we start from understanding that the 508 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 3: pandemic was different, right. We know that that led to 509 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 3: a lot of supply side challenges, and we know that, 510 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 3: you know, and again there's there are laws around the 511 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 3: country on price gouging, because at some points in time, 512 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 3: there are challenges in these markets, in various kinds of markets. 513 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 3: But it sounds like her proposal is focused on making 514 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 3: sure that there aren't bad faith actors and that the 515 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 3: federal government has the capacity to take steps. And again 516 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 3: this is consistent with Senate, with proposals that Republicans in 517 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 3: the Senate have also put forward. 518 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 4: You know, you look at some of these proposals, for 519 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 4: example on housing, you know, many people would applaud it. 520 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 4: They talk about it being a ymbi agenda, you know, 521 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 4: saying yes in my backyard, pushing through building of housing 522 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 4: and increasing the supply as well as helping on the 523 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 4: demands of helping people of fort housing. It's a pretty 524 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 4: activist agenda, and it involves kind of going into local 525 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 4: areas and pushing through development plans. At the same time 526 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 4: as you're putt quite a lot of money into people's 527 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 4: pockets through the child tax credit. We don't know how 528 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 4: it's going to be paid for. I mean, the criticism 529 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 4: from the Republican side that this is a very progressive, 530 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 4: quite interventionist, activist president, potentially Kamala Harris, that's right, isn't it. 531 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't accept that criticism, right, 532 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 3: you know, coming from the Republican side. And you look 533 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 3: at the policy agenda that Donald Trump is put forward, 534 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 3: and you know, you see him using the tools of 535 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 3: government to benefit those at the top of the income distribution, 536 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 3: to benefit the wealthy, him using the power of government 537 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 3: to put in place policies that will raise costs for 538 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 3: consumers all across the country. So it's it's in whose 539 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 3: interest are you using these these tools in these levers? 540 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 3: And you know what, I what I see the Vice 541 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 3: President putting together an agenda to do in in a 542 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 3: very robust way and consistent with the work that she's 543 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 3: done over the past four years as Vice president, is 544 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 3: to make sure that government is working to build the 545 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 3: middle class, to make sure that prices are fair, to 546 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 3: make sure that people had economic opportunities. So it's not 547 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 3: a question of whether government is intervening, it's on whose 548 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 3: behalf and in whose interest they're intervening. 549 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 4: Finally, very briefly, you said it was your second convention 550 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 4: apart from Kamala Harris's speech, which I guess everyone's supposed 551 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 4: to say, is that highlight the end of the week. 552 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 4: Who are you looking forward to seeing? 553 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 3: I mean, I will say I worked on Hillary Clinton's 554 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 3: transition team, and so I got to see her speak 555 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 3: last night, and it was it was really beautiful and amazing, 556 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 3: and to see how far we've come since she ran 557 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 3: for office, and to see how excited everybody is about 558 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 3: what's to come was just it was really moving to 559 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 3: hear her speak. 560 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 4: I'm excited economist, Heatasha. Thank you very much, Thank you 561 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 4: thanks for listening to this week's special Voter Nomics from Chicago. 562 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 4: This episode was hosted by me Stephanie Flanders, who was 563 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 4: produced by Samosadi, with production support and sound designed by 564 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 4: Moses and Brendan Francis Noonan is our executive producer and 565 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 4: Sage Bowman is head of Popcarve and special thanks in 566 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 4: this episode goes to Josh Wingrove, Heather Bouchet, Christi Cally, 567 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 4: and all of Bloomberg's team here in Chicago. Please, if 568 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 4: you like the show, go rate and review it.