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Speaker 1: You know my figure core packing with the election is over.

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Speaker 1: And now look, I know it's a great question, y'all.

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Speaker 1: And I don't blame you for asking, but you know,

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Speaker 1: the moment I answer that question, the headline and every

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Speaker 1: one or your paper will be about that. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: and it should be. I can't even wrap my head

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Speaker 1: around the fact that that is working, not answering a

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Speaker 1: question that huge. Um, And then that's your reasoning that

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Speaker 1: that's astounding. Yeah, because if I answered that, that that would

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Speaker 1: be the headline. Because it's a big deal, is why

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Speaker 1: it would be the headline. We asked because it's consequential. No,

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Speaker 1: I won't answer it because it's consequential, is the answer,

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Speaker 1: which boggles them now. As I've been saying in any

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Speaker 1: other area era, I don't think he'd be asked anything

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Speaker 1: but this until he answered it. I'm not sure that's

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Speaker 1: the case when most of the media is fully on

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Speaker 1: board as part of the campaign, Let's appeal for perspective, experience,

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Speaker 1: wisdom to Lani Chen, David and Diane Stephy, fellow in

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Speaker 1: American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Institution, also host

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Speaker 1: of the podcast Always Interesting, Crossing Lines with Lani Chen Lani,

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Speaker 1: how are you, sir? I am glad this week is

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Speaker 1: almost done. I've been saying that every week for quite

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Speaker 1: some time. I know in any other era, you couldn't

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Speaker 1: get away with that answer, could you. No, I don't

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Speaker 1: think you. I don't think you would be able to.

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Speaker 1: And I think you're right. It is an important question.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's an important Uh, it's an important policy question.

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Speaker 1: It's frankly a very important question for the for the

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Speaker 1: you know, where the country goes from here? Uh? And

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Speaker 1: I think you're right. I don't think there's a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of accountability around it. I will say that I

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Speaker 1: appreciate Biden's willingness to be completely transparent about what he's thinking.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's not trying to make up some reason

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Speaker 1: for for for why this is. I mean, he's just saying, Look,

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Speaker 1: it's bad politics for me to answer the question. He's

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Speaker 1: not wrong, He's not wrong about that. He's not. It's

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Speaker 1: just not it's just not what our media's roles should be. Well,

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Speaker 1: at a point in time, I think it's borderline charming

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Speaker 1: that he's old school enough. And I think it is.

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Speaker 1: Corey's a pretty decent guy to say it's actually a

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Speaker 1: good question. I don't blame you for asking it. He

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Speaker 1: is ashamed of not answering it, in my opinion, Uh, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I think he is. I think he'd much rather be

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Speaker 1: able to answer it. Um, it does speak to the

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Speaker 1: state of our media. But you know, more broadly, guys,

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Speaker 1: I think it speaks to the state of the of

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Speaker 1: the progressive movement. You know, where the where the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 1: and where the progressive movement is. Because he knows that

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Speaker 1: there are a significant percentage of his supporters who would

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Speaker 1: be demotivated, who would be angry with him if he said, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to tack the court. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he will. I mean, I think he

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Speaker 1: either if he knows if he does that, he has

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Speaker 1: no first term agenda. He has no way of possibly

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Speaker 1: getting anything through. Uh. You know, now, if there's a

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Speaker 1: Democratic sweep, then he has a little bit more margin.

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Speaker 1: But still he knows that this is such a polarizing

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Speaker 1: issue that if he gets out there and does it,

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Speaker 1: he's in trouble. On the other hand, if he doesn't

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Speaker 1: support it, you've got a bunch of Democrats who may

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Speaker 1: not turn out to vote, and that may be a

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Speaker 1: problem for him. So he isn't a difficult position politically.

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Speaker 1: I understand the position he's in, but it doesn't excuse

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Speaker 1: the responsibility of the media to hold him accountable, and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't, frankly, excuse his responsibility to answer the question. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is why we love talking to you. It's not

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Speaker 1: just shouted talking points in spin. What do you mean

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Speaker 1: he would be in trouble if he did that, particularly

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Speaker 1: if the Democrats hold both houses of Congress. What would

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Speaker 1: hold him back and the progressives from just instituting all

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Speaker 1: sorts of wild policies. Well, first of all, you know,

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Speaker 1: they have to not just get rid of in order

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Speaker 1: to get rid of the current constitution of the court,

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Speaker 1: they would have to get rid of the legislative filibuster

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Speaker 1: as well. Which are I think that I think that's

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Speaker 1: guaranteed they're going to do that. Yeah, you know, they

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Speaker 1: may try. They may try, but but I think that

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Speaker 1: there are enough Democrats on record. Now, look, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean anything. Can be on record and change your mind,

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Speaker 1: but there are enough Democrats on record saying, look, that's

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Speaker 1: not the right path. You know, let's not do that.

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Speaker 1: There's enough institutionals, you know, the Senate is an old

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Speaker 1: school institution. I just taught a class this week, actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, focusing on the Senate and had an expert

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Speaker 1: on who had worked in the Senate for twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: and she didn't exclude the possibility, but she did say this,

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Speaker 1: She said, Look, what you got to realize about the

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Speaker 1: Senate is there are so many institutionalists in the Senate,

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Speaker 1: so many people there who are trying to protect what

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Speaker 1: the Senate has been since the founding, and the filibuster

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Speaker 1: is really a big part of that. Again, this is

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Speaker 1: not to say that they couldn't just decide, forget it,

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Speaker 1: We're going to screw all the norms. We're gonna do

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Speaker 1: it anyway, but there are multiple steps that would have

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Speaker 1: to happen before you get to court packing. And I

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Speaker 1: may say close enough, margin Biden is really going to

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Speaker 1: play the key. He's going to play the key role

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Speaker 1: because he's basically got to say to these Democrats in

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Speaker 1: the Senate, look, I know you want to do it,

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Speaker 1: but there's too many things on my agenda. There's too

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Speaker 1: many things that I need to get some Republican support

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Speaker 1: or somehow, because that will make the policy more durable,

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Speaker 1: it will make it exist and stand over time. That's

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Speaker 1: the argument he's got to make. So that's why I'm

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Speaker 1: so a little bit skeptical. I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: people aren't. Well, I hope you're right. I think we

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Speaker 1: live in a pure, pure power politics time. They can

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Speaker 1: and they will, and they'll jam through all legislation with

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Speaker 1: the fifty votes they've got and screwed if you get

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Speaker 1: any buying. Obamacare went through with no buying from the

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Speaker 1: other side. Yeah, that's true, although Obamacare has now been

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Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court, you know, which is why I

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Speaker 1: got challenged so much. That's why it's got challenged so much. No,

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Speaker 1: there's a reason to want to get buying on the

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Speaker 1: other side. I don't think anybody cares anymore. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and and that's the that's the sad state of our politics.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a part of me that hopes that

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Speaker 1: there is some effort to to try and move us

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Speaker 1: back to a different time, move us to a time

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Speaker 1: when there was there was more consensus, more effort to

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Speaker 1: try and come together. But you know, you are you

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Speaker 1: guys are right. This is a time of power politics.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, we just finished watching Copra Kai,

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Speaker 1: which if you haven't. She is terrific and I know

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Speaker 1: so many people that are into that show. And my

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Speaker 1: wife is just adamant. She will not watch it, but

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Speaker 1: that's great. Yeah, No, I was skeptical to you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, three Karate Kid movies is enough? Why do

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Speaker 1: you need another? Anyway, it was, it was good. But

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Speaker 1: you know, there's this no mercy kind of kind of

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Speaker 1: theme that runs through the first couple of seasons of it.

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Speaker 1: And I do think there is this kind of no

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Speaker 1: mercy element of politics that's arisen now. So I totally

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Speaker 1: understand where you guys are coming from. I guess I

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Speaker 1: just have a little bit more optimism that that maybe

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Speaker 1: we'll be able to to have a little bit more

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Speaker 1: civility in our politics. Man, I hope you're right. Of

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Speaker 1: the Hoover Institution is on the line. How much trouble

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Speaker 1: is Trump in in Pennsylvania, without which he cannot retake

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Speaker 1: the White House? Yeah, I mean, Pennsylvania doesn't look great

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Speaker 1: for him. The public polling out of Pennsylvania has been

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Speaker 1: pretty rough the last week. In particular. What I keep

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Speaker 1: coming back to is this, you know, the polling. We've

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Speaker 1: talked about this before. The polling depends on an assumption

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Speaker 1: about who's going to show up to vote, and the

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Speaker 1: Trump campaigns theory of the case has always been, look,

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Speaker 1: we have all of these voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin who did not vote in ten who we believe

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Speaker 1: demographically are going to be Trump supporters who we can

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Speaker 1: register and turn out, and that's going to change the electorate.

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Speaker 1: Therefore the polling is inaccurate. By the way, there's reason

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Speaker 1: to support that case. It's not all this hot air.

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Speaker 1: If you look at early uh, if you look at

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Speaker 1: voter registration numbers, particularly over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party has done very well at registering more

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Speaker 1: voters in the Democrats have and the key parts of

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania that Trump needs to win. So I don't exclude

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Speaker 1: the possibility is one of Trump's top turnout guys that

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Speaker 1: got tackled on his lawn in front of his house,

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Speaker 1: So that didn't had a bad day. We all have

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Speaker 1: bad days. I haven't had a day that bad, But

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Speaker 1: there are other tut guys who have shirts. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of this depends on

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Speaker 1: on how true that story is that they're able to

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Speaker 1: make any changes. And you know, look, Trump has got

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Speaker 1: to be able to hold on to a significant percentage

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Speaker 1: of people who voted for him in sixteen, who who

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Speaker 1: are swing voters or who usually vote for Democrats. And

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Speaker 1: he said, look, I'm going to give this guy a shot.

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Speaker 1: And that's the dynamic I don't know about. I just

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Speaker 1: don't know how many people who said I'm going to

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Speaker 1: give him a shot in sixteen are signing up for

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Speaker 1: a second go around. That that that's the part I'm

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Speaker 1: still a little bit unsure about. You know, I appreciate

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Speaker 1: your breath of optimism because I have been operating in

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Speaker 1: the assumption Democrats take the Senate filibuster's gone and just

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Speaker 1: it's now the House and all kinds of laws are

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Speaker 1: going to get passed and signed. I hope you are

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Speaker 1: right and I'm wrong. Yeah, I mean, we'll see. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, there might be a nice sisilar or state

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Speaker 1: dinner waiting on the side of it. But but I

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Speaker 1: but I feel like my, my, you know, there, we

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Speaker 1: just can't keep going like this, the pace, the level

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Speaker 1: of partisan rancor how much people dislike each other. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this Pelosi stunt they amend and stuff. Yeah, we're just

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Speaker 1: take take on that right now. She's she's holding a speech,

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Speaker 1: and there's a perfect example from my side of the argument.

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Speaker 1: It's not like she's some backbench or the freaking speaker

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Speaker 1: of the House is pulling this maneuver today. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's what the kids call trolling, I guess, but it

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Speaker 1: is really it is really remarkable that the third the

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Speaker 1: person who's third in line for the presidency, basically isn't

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Speaker 1: taking her job particularly seriously. And you know by the

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Speaker 1: way parks on both their houses that there's not more

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Speaker 1: effort to try and get some kind of coronavirus economic

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Speaker 1: assistance out the door before the election. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: this is remarkable that that you have. We're literally twenty

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Speaker 1: days away from the election. We know exactly what the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Economy needs going forward, and neither side is willing to

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Speaker 1: step up and and lay down their arms to try

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Speaker 1: and get this done. Of course, the Pelosi stunt basically

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Speaker 1: guaranteed I think nothing's going to happen. But this is

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Speaker 1: really uh, it's sad. It's a sad statement on where

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Speaker 1: politics is now. So you have kids, what age is

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Speaker 1: okay for watching cobra um you know, I think, I

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Speaker 1: think early teens is probably fine. I would say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's some violent things, but it's gonna get

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Speaker 1: them into karate. They're gonna want to learn karate. I

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Speaker 1: want to learn karate though I have no physical ability

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Speaker 1: to perform karate, even I want to learn. Wow, Asian

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Speaker 1: man feels pressure to learn karate. This is it's uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: for me. I can't figure out exactly why. So, Lanie,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna put you on the uh the spot here,

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Speaker 1: and I apologize in advance when you were talking a

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Speaker 1: second ago. I thinking, you know, one of my great

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Speaker 1: things I tried to remind people of about politics is

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Speaker 1: politicians almost uniformly these days, would rather have an issue

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Speaker 1: than solve an issue. If I solve an issue, I

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Speaker 1: can't get you to the polls with the promise that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to solve the issue. Um, when you deal

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Speaker 1: with fresh faced youngsters, maybe your folks who aren't into

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Speaker 1: politics much, finish this sentence. The one thing you have

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Speaker 1: to remember about politics is you mean, when I'm talking

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Speaker 1: to them or what they say to me, know, when

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Speaker 1: you're talking to them, when when you want them to

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Speaker 1: start to form an understate understanding of the way politics

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Speaker 1: really works. What I say to them is, don't forget

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Speaker 1: what goes around comes around. Politics is a repeated game

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Speaker 1: and and the players, you know, I mean, yes, there

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Speaker 1: are new faces that come in and out, but people

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Speaker 1: tend to stick around for a while, and people have

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Speaker 1: long memories. And that's kind of why I feel like,

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Speaker 1: at some level, you know, this this cycle cannot continue

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Speaker 1: because we can't keep beating each other over the heads.

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Speaker 1: We can't. I mean we we If you look back

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Speaker 1: at American history, there's been a lot of polarized periods,

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Speaker 1: but those polarifed periods always somehow come to an end. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I pray that, James Madison, George Washington, you're right, that's

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Speaker 1: that's that's what That's one of the problems with the

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Speaker 1: youth movement is when you get older, you really realize

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Speaker 1: that this the whole balloon drop in the confetti, and

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Speaker 1: it's a new administration and everything's gonna change forever for

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Speaker 1: the next ship. The next election starts the next day,

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Speaker 1: and the other party usually has a huge up and

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Speaker 1: it's just you know, yeah, you gotta you gotta figure

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Speaker 1: out a way to deal with this cychnical nature of this,

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Speaker 1: Oh boy. Lonie Chen, David and Diane Stephy, fellow in

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Speaker 1: American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Institution, also hosted

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Speaker 1: the podcast Crossing Lines with Lonha Chen always stimulating Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much, Lonnie, wend you two. I wish I knew

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Speaker 1: the slogan of the Cobra Kai Dojo or something. I

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Speaker 1: can hit him with breath of optimism from all Chen.

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Speaker 1: He thinks there's enough serious senators that's saying now, we're

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Speaker 1: not gonna do this right right, and they'll realize, all right,

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Speaker 1: the hot headed children whose votes we just depended on,

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Speaker 1: they got two years to cool off. They're screaming at me.

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Speaker 1: Now they'll be fine. Yeah, enough adults in the room. Um.

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Speaker 1: I hope he's right, and he is absolutely correct that

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Speaker 1: we have had a number of times in this country

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Speaker 1: where we're at each other's throats to the point of

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Speaker 1: killing each other's brothers and sisters, wholesale slaughter on the battlefield,

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Speaker 1: to cite the obvious example, and and we more or

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Speaker 1: less healed and more or less came back together. So

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Speaker 1: let's hope. There's hope for hope, everybody. I'll have to

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Speaker 1: tell you a little bit about Nancy and her Amendment

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Speaker 1: stunt that she's doing today, but just listening to it

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Speaker 1: in the lunch room, it was an absurdity. I think

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Speaker 1: you'll enjoy it. Cool, good morning, and