Speaker 1: Hey everyone, It's Jay Sheddy and I'm thrilled to announce
Speaker 1: my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can
Speaker 1: experience on purpose in person. Join me in a city
Speaker 1: near you for meaningful, insightful conversations with surprise guests. It
Speaker 1: could be a celebrity, top wellness expert, or a CEO
Speaker 1: or business leader. We'll dive into experiences designed to experience growth,
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Speaker 1: meet you. There are a limited number of VIP experiences
Speaker 1: for a private Q and a intimate meditation and a
Speaker 1: meet and greet with photos. Tickets are on sale now.
Speaker 1: Head to Jsheddy, dop me Forward Slash Tour and get
Speaker 1: yours today.
Speaker 2: The moment you heal your self esteem, we'll have a
Speaker 2: natural distaste towards things that are a bad for you, people
Speaker 2: who don't love you, people who don't treat you right.
Speaker 2: How you know your self esteem is improving is that
Speaker 2: the moment those people start treating you badly, you lose.
Speaker 3: Attraction to them. The psychologist, teacher and relationship experts.
Speaker 1: What would be your advice as someone who feels like
Speaker 1: they've got ghosted.
Speaker 2: Chances are their hiding information ghosts. Regardless of their reason,
Speaker 2: they're still poor communicators. So best predictor of future relationships
Speaker 2: is their past relationships. People are their patterns. My number
Speaker 2: one client is a man who's just been cheated on.
Speaker 2: The women are cheating on the men. No, a lot
Speaker 2: more than I ever expected.
Speaker 1: What's the worst thing to say to someone who's just
Speaker 1: gone through a breaker?
Speaker 3: Well, you knew he was like that anyway, So what's
Speaker 3: the problem.
Speaker 1: What can a woman do to make sure a man
Speaker 1: doesn't cheer on it?
Speaker 3: I have a willingness to walk away when she's being disrespected.
Speaker 3: That's all it really takes.
Speaker 1: Wow, this is, without a doubt, my favorite relationship episode
Speaker 1: we've ever done. The number one health and wellness podcast
Speaker 1: Sheddy j Sheddy Everyone, Welcome back to on Purpose, the
Speaker 1: place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed.
Speaker 1: Today's get is going to help us do just that.
Speaker 1: She is Sadia Khan, a renowned psychotherapist and former psychology
Speaker 1: teacher whose bold, viral insights on modern relationships, masculinity, and
Speaker 1: emotional healing have earned her a global following. Known for
Speaker 1: her no nonsense approach, Sadia helps men and women navigate infidelity, identity,
Speaker 1: and intimacy with clarity and strength. Sadia's mission is to
Speaker 1: empower people to reclaim their confidence, understand themselves and others,
Speaker 1: and build real, lasting love. Please welcome to On Purpose,
Speaker 1: Sadia Khan.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so unbelievably
Speaker 2: honored to be set opposite you, and I know I've
Speaker 2: been gushing since I've arrived, but I can't express how
Speaker 2: grateful I am.
Speaker 1: Well, Sadia, the feelings mutual. I've been loving following you
Speaker 1: for the past couple of years and I can't wait
Speaker 1: to have this conversation with you because I think you
Speaker 1: present such a counterintuitive, refreshing, challenging view on love and
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. So let's dive straight in perfect I
Speaker 1: want to ask you, if someone applied your teachings that
Speaker 1: you're about to share with us in the next couple
Speaker 1: of hours, what would they overcome.
Speaker 2: The first thing that they would overcome is their fear
Speaker 2: of conflict. One of the things that keeps people stuck
Speaker 2: in relationships is that they have a fear of conflict
Speaker 2: because it boils down to the have a fear of
Speaker 2: walking away. And if people understood that the quality of
Speaker 2: your relationships will vastly improve the moment you exercise the
Speaker 2: ability to walk away when you're being heartbroken, when you're
Speaker 2: being disrespected, and when you're being dehumanized. It actually brings
Speaker 2: out the best in your partner when they know that
Speaker 2: you have that strength. When you remove that strength from
Speaker 2: your relationships, what ends up happening is that you attract
Speaker 2: people who will use and abuse you and treat you
Speaker 2: terribly because they see that your kindness is going to
Speaker 2: be your downfall. So I think if you really apply
Speaker 2: my teachings, the only thing that will happen is that
Speaker 2: you will have the self esteem to simply attract people
Speaker 2: who are good for you and develop a disdain towards
Speaker 2: people treat you badly, And because of that, you can
Speaker 2: select better and you can maintain your relationships in a
Speaker 2: healthier way.
Speaker 1: I love that. So people are going to select better,
Speaker 1: they're going to attract better, and they're going to stay
Speaker 1: in the right relationships exactly. Let's start with the first one.
Speaker 1: Most people I speak to feel like they keep attracting
Speaker 1: people who are unavailable, people who don't want to commit,
Speaker 1: people who don't have the emotional capacity for connection. Why
Speaker 1: is it it's.
Speaker 2: Not what we attract, is what we entertain. Most people
Speaker 2: can attract pretty much everybody. Yeah, if we try hard enough,
Speaker 2: we can pretty much attract everybody. But when we have
Speaker 2: low self esteem, we have these personal prophecies that people
Speaker 2: are supposed to be a bit unavailable, people are supposed
Speaker 2: to pay hard to get, or it's normal that he
Speaker 2: doesn't text back, or it's normal that he doesn't really
Speaker 2: ask me how my day is. It's normal that he
Speaker 2: only texts me at twelve am on a Friday night.
Speaker 2: And because they believe that that's normalized to themselves, they
Speaker 2: start to accept what's actually not going to lead to
Speaker 2: a healthy relationship. The moment they figure out not what
Speaker 2: they're attracting but what they're entertaining, they can take their
Speaker 2: power back and say, I'm actually attracting all types of men,
Speaker 2: but the ones I keep forming an attachment to are
Speaker 2: the ones that leave me a bit anxious and the
Speaker 2: ones that leave me worrying what this is and where
Speaker 2: this is going. Instead of being attracted to that, I
Speaker 2: start to learn that that is a signal that they've
Speaker 2: got commitment issues, and all it's going to do is
Speaker 2: delay my time, delay my ability to get married, delay
Speaker 2: my ability to have a family, and so on and
Speaker 2: so forth. So we can attract all types of men,
Speaker 2: but we only entertain the ones that will enable you
Speaker 2: to start a family, in a relationship, or whatever your
Speaker 2: goal is. They enable that, and if they don't enable that,
Speaker 2: try and lose attraction for them.
Speaker 1: Why do we feel more attracted to people who make
Speaker 1: us anxious and who are unavailable. Why is it that
Speaker 1: we think that they're the ones worth chasing.
Speaker 2: Firstly, if we have low self esteem, we kind of
Speaker 2: see as that this is supposed to happen, and nobody's
Speaker 2: supposed to just overly adore and love us. That's probably
Speaker 2: not going to happen. It's normal that we get treated
Speaker 2: like this if that's your low self esteem. But the
Speaker 2: other thing is unavailable men. Sometimes they demonstrate the idea
Speaker 2: of having options and alternatives. Their mystery makes them seem
Speaker 2: more disare and because of that mystery, we assume that
Speaker 2: they've got something interesting going on, they've got alternatives, there's
Speaker 2: something about them that's making them busy and making them dismissive,
Speaker 2: when we really realize that it's actually they're just emotionally immature.
Speaker 2: They're not this special guy that's got a million things
Speaker 2: going and his work is taking over and he's so
Speaker 2: so busy.
Speaker 3: Actually, he's just emotionally mature.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know how to commit, he doesn't how to
Speaker 2: award off alternatives and just focus on one person at
Speaker 2: the time. When you realize that it's actually a signal
Speaker 2: of emotional immaturity than desirability, we actually won't be so
Speaker 2: attractive to that person who can't communicate in a healthy way.
Speaker 1: I think, just on when I'm listening to you, I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: if you want someone, like anyone should who texts back
Speaker 1: within a decent amount of time, that's not an abnormal request.
Speaker 3: And nobody's that that busy.
Speaker 2: I know, like men like to sound busy at work
Speaker 2: or I've got this going on, I'm that stressed, completely understandable,
Speaker 2: but one text to let that person know will enable
Speaker 2: them to just relax the whole day. But you can't
Speaker 2: have the emotional maturity or the empathy to just send
Speaker 2: that quick text, Then that person doesn't understand what it
Speaker 2: takes to have a healthy relationship, and they're pro probably
Speaker 2: not worth your investment.
Speaker 1: Obviously, a lot of people these days aren't even getting
Speaker 1: that far because they're meeting people on dating apps. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so you're swiping away. You might get into a
Speaker 1: conversation with two or three people. First of all, let's
Speaker 1: talk about this. You're not matching with anyone, like, no one,
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like it's going that Well. What do
Speaker 1: you say to men and women who feel like they've
Speaker 1: been rejected a few too many times and they're losing
Speaker 1: that faith and ability to feel that there is someone
Speaker 1: out there for them.
Speaker 2: Just to be careful on are you actually not matching
Speaker 2: or are you disliking who you're matching with? Sometimes what's
Speaker 2: happened is because of social media and because of dating apps,
Speaker 2: we enter relationships with almost like a double standard or
Speaker 2: a sense of comparison of comparing people to our algorithms.
Speaker 2: We're saying, well, if he's not the dream guy, or
Speaker 2: she's not the dream girl, if he's not a high
Speaker 2: value man and she's not a high value woman, we
Speaker 2: start to look at our matches with a level of distaste,
Speaker 2: when sometimes a better thing to do is look at
Speaker 2: the people who are matching with you and try and
Speaker 2: see are they actually that bad?
Speaker 3: Is there something wrong with them?
Speaker 2: Or am I just comparing them to a dream, idea
Speaker 2: or a partner that I haven't actually been able to access.
Speaker 2: I always just think the more you like the person
Speaker 2: you are, the higher your self esteem, The more you
Speaker 2: like people who like you, the fact that the person
Speaker 2: that are matching you automatically you start to like them
Speaker 2: more because they've matched you, because you like you and
Speaker 2: they like you as well. When you've got low self esteem,
Speaker 2: you chase after people that you can't access. So my
Speaker 2: advice to people who is always start with who likes you.
Speaker 2: Always start with that poor and then home in on
Speaker 2: that poll and see if you've got similar demographics, values,
Speaker 2: so on and so forth. But where people go wrong
Speaker 2: is they glorify the people that they're not matching with
Speaker 2: and wanting a love that they've never been able to access,
Speaker 2: and then comparing who they do get matched with with
Speaker 2: these alternatives that aren't really real. So the better thing
Speaker 2: is to focus on who does and maybe adapt your
Speaker 2: standards to those people who are actually invested in you.
Speaker 1: It's so true, and I feel like what I'm thinking
Speaker 1: people are going to say is, well, why do I
Speaker 1: have to settle?
Speaker 2: If similarity feels like settling, then maybe your standards are
Speaker 2: too high And what I mean by that is I
Speaker 2: sometimes we all meet men who are in maybe in
Speaker 2: their forties, on their second divorce and saying, I don't
Speaker 2: want a woman with baggage, so I need somebody twenty
Speaker 2: five years old. I don't want women with baggage. Or
Speaker 2: sometimes I meet women who are, you know, not working,
Speaker 2: and they say I want a man that's an entrepreneur
Speaker 2: and got six figures. But I always just say, you
Speaker 2: shouldn't you be looking for someone similar to you? And
Speaker 2: if similar to you it starts to feel like you're settling,
Speaker 2: then maybe your standards are a bit inflated. If what
Speaker 2: you're bringing to the table and what you're receiving, if
Speaker 2: you're asking for that, you're not asking for too much.
Speaker 3: But if you're.
Speaker 2: Asking for people to fill the gaps in your self worth,
Speaker 2: maybe you do need to adapt your standards a little bit.
Speaker 2: So ask yourself it does similarity feel like settling. If
Speaker 2: it does, then maybe we need to work on ourselves
Speaker 2: to be able to access people that we're actually craving.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so much of what you're doing about is
Speaker 1: just having awareness and honesty. I know, like there's such
Speaker 1: a need to be honest with ourselves.
Speaker 2: And it's harder, it's getting harder to become honest with
Speaker 2: ourselves because we are bombarded with advice from tiktoks and
Speaker 2: advice from you know, people that are giving advice about
Speaker 2: never settle. You're somebody's dream girl or this is a
Speaker 2: high value woman. So we think that if we get
Speaker 2: anything less than what our algorithm is suggesting, we're settling,
Speaker 2: when really, as long as we're matched in terms of
Speaker 2: values and maturity and where we see ourselves in the future,
Speaker 2: we're not truly settling. We're just finding somebody who's compatible.
Speaker 1: I mean, so many people on dating apps these days,
Speaker 1: their common experience is being ghosted. And I'm sure you've
Speaker 1: had a million people about feeling like, hey, we were
Speaker 1: having a good chat and this person just disappeared. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what would be your advice as someone who feels like
Speaker 1: they've got ghosted?
Speaker 2: I would say, try and have the reasonable expectations. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: in the digital world, people see each other as disposable
Speaker 2: and there's very minimal investments, so they don't always feel
Speaker 2: like they owe somebody an explanation. And usually when they're ghosting,
Speaker 2: it's either they've met alternatives or they might have just
Speaker 2: been on the app to buy some time to heal
Speaker 2: from a heartbreak. They're not truly looking for a partner,
Speaker 2: They're just looking to kind of heal some or kind
Speaker 2: of recover from some kind of stress that they're going
Speaker 2: through as a coping mechanism. So if they're ghosting you,
Speaker 2: try not to take it too personal. But if you've
Speaker 2: been dating that person and then they ghost to chances
Speaker 2: are they're hiding information. Ghosters regardless of their reason, they're
Speaker 2: still poor communicators. And whatever the reason that they have
Speaker 2: for ghosting you, the bigger reason is they're not great
Speaker 2: at communicating. So try and reduce your attraction to people
Speaker 2: who can't communicate.
Speaker 1: Well, what are the signs when you are dating someone
Speaker 1: or you're starting to have those early conversations with people?
Speaker 1: Do you think people miss but should be looking out
Speaker 1: for that shows signs of a healthy, positive relationship.
Speaker 2: I would say that sometimes the best predictor of future
Speaker 2: relationships is their past relationships. And one thing I think
Speaker 2: people kind of forget is that their patterns don't truly lie.
Speaker 3: And if you meet a man.
Speaker 2: Or a woman even in their late thirties early forties
Speaker 2: have never been a committed relationship and you think everything's
Speaker 2: going well and for some reason they ghost to you
Speaker 2: or they're no longer in a committed Sometimes that's just
Speaker 2: their patterns. Maybe they struggle with commitment, or if you
Speaker 2: find that these people in previous relationships were always unfaithful
Speaker 2: or in previous relationships it never really past three months.
Speaker 2: Chances of people are their patterns, so just try and
Speaker 2: pay doesn't mean you judge them completely, but pay attention to.
Speaker 2: If they do fall off and they don't want to commit,
Speaker 2: it might not be personal. It might just be their
Speaker 2: pattern in previous relationships where they're just not used to
Speaker 2: settling down. They don't know how to, they don't have
Speaker 2: the skills and tools to, so they will find it
Speaker 2: difficult other people because they've always been in four or
Speaker 2: five year long relationships. They only have the habits for
Speaker 2: long lasting relationships. So even when you've just started dating,
Speaker 2: they'll kind of treat you like a girlfriend and it
Speaker 2: can accelerate into a relationship a bit faster.
Speaker 3: So their previous patterns is something to pay attention to.
Speaker 1: And that second pattern can also be negative because you
Speaker 1: could just get into a relationship too quickly with someone because.
Speaker 2: They're just in those habits. Yeah, they're not actually compatible,
Speaker 2: they're just in those habits. Particularly if they've just come
Speaker 2: out of a relationship. They might just be in the
Speaker 2: habit of calling everywhere every day, arranging to see you
Speaker 2: on the weekends, doing all of those things, which feels great,
Speaker 2: But if they're not actually healed, it will turn into
Speaker 2: love bombing because they're accelerating the residual feelings from their
Speaker 2: previous relationship onto you, and it kind of accelerates the
Speaker 2: relationship faster than what the psychological compatist ability is. So
Speaker 2: you might find yourself catapulted into a relationship by somebody
Speaker 2: who's just in that habit of doing that, and that
Speaker 2: can also be a problem.
Speaker 1: What the top three things that people you guide and
Speaker 1: coach and follow you and social media come to you
Speaker 1: for and say their number one issue is.
Speaker 2: Well, for men, they do suffer from a lot of infidelity.
Speaker 2: The women are cheating on the men a lot more
Speaker 2: than I ever expected. My number one client is a
Speaker 2: man who's just been cheated on by a woman. And
Speaker 2: because there's not much talk about this on social media,
Speaker 2: and there's not much talk about this in general, we're
Speaker 2: almost programmed to think men cheat. So yeah, it's rare
Speaker 2: that you find the idea of women chaging and men
Speaker 2: don't actually talk to each other when they've been cheated on.
Speaker 2: They kind of keep it to themselves because they're almost
Speaker 2: embarrassed or ashamed. Wre as women, we can confide in
Speaker 2: each other a bit more.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: My number one client tends to be the man that's
Speaker 2: been cheated on or the woman that can't get the
Speaker 2: man to commit. That tends to be the two feels
Speaker 2: that I kind of have that seem to attract in
Speaker 2: terms of clients. But men getting cheated on or men
Speaker 2: not being masculine enough to tends to be the common
Speaker 2: theme of my clients that keep coming back in.
Speaker 1: That Let's talk about both of those things because they're
Speaker 1: both fascinating. So let's start with men not being masculine enough.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Because I think for a long
Speaker 1: time we were hearing men are not feminine enough, or
Speaker 1: men don't show their emotions, or men can't have emotional connection.
Speaker 1: That's the issue. Yeah, but you're actually saying it's the opposite.
Speaker 2: It's actually the opposite, and they're genuine because look, we're
Speaker 2: living in a time, particularly in a city like la
Speaker 2: where men are almost divided into being too nice and
Speaker 2: not masculine enough or toxic masculinity. There doesn't seem to
Speaker 2: be a middle ground. And men who have black masculinity,
Speaker 2: they have these three traits in common that I noticed. Firstly,
Speaker 2: they grew up without a male role model. So what
Speaker 2: may have happened is they grew up in a single
Speaker 2: parent home and they saw their mum making all the decisions,
Speaker 2: doing all the hard work, doing the emotional and physical labor,
Speaker 2: and they think that's what women want. They think that's okay,
Speaker 2: So when they go into relationships, they think that women
Speaker 2: wants to make all the decisions, she wants to do
Speaker 2: everything around the house, she wants to be in control,
Speaker 2: when really they're looking for a man who's decision making
Speaker 2: they trust enough for them to finally be able to relax.
Speaker 2: But instead they think that that's what women want, So
Speaker 2: when they get into relationships, they're not decisive, they're not
Speaker 2: problem solving. They allow her to take complete lead, and
Speaker 2: they almost follow her too much. And at first that
Speaker 2: might be fine. Women might find that a bit attractive,
Speaker 2: like okay, perfect is very docile and passive, but later
Speaker 2: on they find that man exhausting, particularly when they have children.
Speaker 2: They can't rely on him to make any decisions because
Speaker 2: he's almost doesn't trust his own judgment and he doesn't
Speaker 2: have that protective or provider instincts, So she kind of
Speaker 2: has to end up doing a dual role. But the
Speaker 2: biggest thing I find with men that lack masculinities is
Speaker 2: they have a problem setting boundaries. And the effective way
Speaker 2: to set a boundary is to find the perfect balance
Speaker 2: between being stern and sensitive. What some men will be
Speaker 2: is too stern, and they will want to set a
Speaker 2: boundary and they get abusive. At the same time, they're like,
Speaker 2: you can't do this name call, and they get too
Speaker 2: much too stern. Other men are too sensitive, They get
Speaker 2: too soft with it, so they don't know how to
Speaker 2: set it. They allow any kind of behavior, and then
Speaker 2: they kind of suppress what they're truly feeling. To get
Speaker 2: the right balance, you have to be stern with what
Speaker 2: you want from that person, but be really sensitive to
Speaker 2: her needs and understand what she wants and remind her
Speaker 2: how much you love her and you want to save
Speaker 2: this relationship, and that's why you're setting the boundary. So
Speaker 2: it might be something like if she's talking to an
Speaker 2: X or something like that. You might be stern and
Speaker 2: saying I don't feel comfortable that you're talking to an ex.
Speaker 2: But the sensitive part is because I love you and
Speaker 2: I really want this relationship to work, and I really
Speaker 2: want us to have a healthy pattern. I don't want
Speaker 2: any outside interference. So getting that balance is something that
Speaker 2: guys that stuffer with masculinity don't get right. And if
Speaker 2: they could just get that perfect balance of sternness and sensitivity,
Speaker 2: they'll be able to set boundaries a lot better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are right. I've seen the abusive for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of men who feel like they
Speaker 1: just want a submissive partner who does what they want
Speaker 1: when they want, and.
Speaker 3: No love in there. There's no actual love there.
Speaker 2: They're setting all these boundaries, but they're aggressive with it.
Speaker 2: They're not reminding her that they love her, they don't
Speaker 2: even show her that they love her, but they want
Speaker 2: her to obey him. That's not a way to set
Speaker 2: a boundary. And other men are just two on the
Speaker 2: soft side, and then she forgets what he actually truly
Speaker 2: wants because he's kind of people pleasing. So finding that
Speaker 2: balance is something that's become difficult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting you said that, because I was
Speaker 1: thinking about So my mom was the bread wren in
Speaker 1: my house and she did everything for me and my sister,
Speaker 1: and my dad was aloof he was kind of checked out.
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting you said the male role model piece,
Speaker 1: because two things happened for me. One thing was my
Speaker 1: male models were monks who were really good men. And
Speaker 1: then on the other side, I saw my mom's strain
Speaker 1: and struggle and pain, and that made me want to
Speaker 1: be a better man. Yeah, but that's because she was
Speaker 1: vulnerable with me about him. Yeah. So, because I could
Speaker 1: see that my mom didn't have an easy life, I
Speaker 1: was convinced that when I got married, if I ever
Speaker 1: got married, that I would never let my wife work out.
Speaker 2: But that's a really common trait that and the other
Speaker 2: type of man experienced. Some men because they saw their
Speaker 2: mom really struggle, they just want to relieve their partner
Speaker 2: of all struggles. So the other that they can go
Speaker 2: is that they want to save a lot of women,
Speaker 2: And what ends up happening is that they really want
Speaker 2: to make sure that she has no troubles and she
Speaker 2: lives a life of complete comfort. The problem is when
Speaker 2: you remove or struggle from anybody's life, they lose purpose
Speaker 2: and they actually resent you for not allowing them to
Speaker 2: problem solve themselves. So some men in that position what
Speaker 2: they'll end up doing, and I'm not saying this was you,
Speaker 2: but generally sometimes those men they want to protect their
Speaker 2: partner from any kind of pain and stress, and in
Speaker 2: the process of doing that, they can either become a
Speaker 2: bit people pleasing or just solve every problem that she
Speaker 2: could potentially have. Either or she doesn't actually get to
Speaker 2: fulfill her own potential and it can lead to resentment.
Speaker 2: So either way, unfortunately, the lack of Mailrod Morole model
Speaker 2: has a significant impact on how they behave with women.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that perspective, and it's such a fine line,
Speaker 1: and I would argue that probably while I was dating
Speaker 1: I was that kind of guy. It was only when
Speaker 1: I got married to RADI did I upgrade to actually
Speaker 1: realizing that I needed my partner to also pursue her purpose,
Speaker 1: discover what it was, understand it. And that took a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and did you find that? Do you have that habit?
Speaker 2: Because a lot of men in that position. Sometimes I'll
Speaker 2: choose women that are heavily, heavily traumatized, or they choose
Speaker 2: to women that I've never had any work and no work,
Speaker 2: or they might choose somebody who is just really struggling
Speaker 2: with it some addictions, and they like that because then
Speaker 2: they're like, I can just show you and help you
Speaker 2: and help you recover. But the problem is sometimes when
Speaker 2: those women do recover, they want a man with higher
Speaker 2: self esteem, somebody who wouldn't tolerate so much of that
Speaker 2: negative behavior.
Speaker 3: So they actually, wow, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So sometimes I'll meet men who like, she had this addiction,
Speaker 2: she was an alcoholic, she was traumatized from sexual abuse.
Speaker 2: I helped her get through all of it. But when
Speaker 2: she's recovered, she's actually looking at him like, why did
Speaker 2: you tolerate all of that? Why did you select this?
Speaker 2: There must be something wrong with you. I actually want
Speaker 2: somebody who's got a higher selection process. Now, sometimes they
Speaker 2: can lose that woman that they have, and women suffer
Speaker 2: from this as well. They think that if I just
Speaker 2: show him I'm consistent, caring and love him, I'm getting
Speaker 2: through the addiction. When he finally recovers, he actually looks
Speaker 2: for somebody with higher self esteem, and they end up
Speaker 2: all that investment can sometimes go to waste.
Speaker 1: So isn't that so heartbreaking? It is because that was
Speaker 1: love in its best form, if someone was patient while
Speaker 1: you healed and they supported you, Like, aren't we moving
Speaker 1: away from love if we leave someone who is there
Speaker 1: for us in our darkest times?
Speaker 2: They are, but sometimes they don't know if you were
Speaker 2: there because you love them or you're seeking their approval,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people sometimes they are approval seeking
Speaker 2: and master that through helping they will help that person financially,
Speaker 2: help that person with every single problem that they have.
Speaker 2: But there's an unconscious contract that the more I help you,
Speaker 2: the more you will love me in return. And sometimes
Speaker 2: we can see through it when it's not genuine. And
Speaker 2: when that person can see through that this was all
Speaker 2: done with a contract assigned to it that one day
Speaker 2: you will then be lawyal, loving and committed to me,
Speaker 2: they didn't agree to sign that contract. So when they're healed,
Speaker 2: they can become ungrateful to the person who help them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes so much sense.
Speaker 2: So it just depends what the unconscious contractor is when
Speaker 2: you're helping people.
Speaker 1: I love that unconscious contract. Yeah, you're so right that
Speaker 1: if you're doing it just to say, look, I was
Speaker 1: there for you. Yeah, I was there the whole time.
Speaker 1: You should love me more. Now people sense that. People
Speaker 1: sense that, how do you communicate to someone that you're
Speaker 1: there for the right reasons?
Speaker 2: You have those boundaries, so how you communicate Because I
Speaker 2: suffer from that as well. I like to be super
Speaker 2: super helpful because then I'm like, I'm soor irreplaceable if
Speaker 2: I do all these things, I'm sorry replaceable, right, And
Speaker 2: there's unconscious ego attached to that. It's like, look, how
Speaker 2: wonderful I am because I saw you through all your
Speaker 2: financial woes and all this stuff. But really the best
Speaker 2: way to communicate that you're there for love and not
Speaker 2: for approval is that you still have deal breakers. Where
Speaker 2: people go wrong is that they are literally a doormat.
Speaker 2: There's nothing you can do that will make them ever leave.
Speaker 2: Whereas where you're still loving but you're not for approval
Speaker 2: seeking is there's a limit to how much you can take,
Speaker 2: and if there's not at least gratitude, respect, honor, and loyalty,
Speaker 2: you will leave.
Speaker 3: Whereas if you have no.
Speaker 2: Deal breakers whatsoever and you're just consistently loving this, and
Speaker 2: who is just taking from you, It signals low self
Speaker 2: esteem to that person, and it signals an incorrect attachment.
Speaker 1: You know what. I love talking to you because this
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Speaker 1: I'm listening to you, the question that's coming to my
Speaker 1: mind is we all seem to think we know why
Speaker 1: men cheat on women. Why do women cheat on men?
Speaker 2: I've gotten in a lot of trouble for saying this
Speaker 2: in the perst. No soa Again, Usually in my experience
Speaker 2: of when women cheat on men, it's not so much
Speaker 2: that you know he's done something toxic. I've met women
Speaker 2: who are in toxic relationships and stayed loyal the whole time.
Speaker 2: It's simply when he lacks masculinity, they are most likely
Speaker 2: to cheat. I don't actually see women often cheating on
Speaker 2: a toxic man. They are actually quite loyal to him.
Speaker 2: They're more likely to cheat on the man that is
Speaker 2: too passive, too naive, and too people pleasing. And the
Speaker 2: reason for that is because there's something about that man
Speaker 2: that is so soft, so naive that makes her lose
Speaker 2: sexual attraction. Something about the fact that he can't spot
Speaker 2: red flag, something about the fact that he believes everything,
Speaker 2: he doesn't question anything, he's afraid to assert his boundaries,
Speaker 2: makes a woman crave somebody with a bit more masculinity.
Speaker 2: So it's not so much that they're cheating on him
Speaker 2: because he's so bad to her, Because I've met so
Speaker 2: many women saying he's wonderful man. He treats me really,
Speaker 2: really well. I'm just not in love with him. And
Speaker 2: usually the reason why she's not in love with him
Speaker 2: is because he's not protective enough. And what some men
Speaker 2: will provide, but what we mean by protective is she
Speaker 2: might be out all day with her ex boyfriend and
Speaker 2: he won't get protective and say Hey, babe, I don't
Speaker 2: feel comfortable, or she might be doing, you know, disrespect
Speaker 2: to him or anything like that, and he doesn't stand
Speaker 2: up for himself. And in those moments when a man
Speaker 2: doesn't stand up for himself, she loses that respect and
Speaker 2: then she crosses new boundaries because mainly she believes he
Speaker 2: will stay regardless. And when we give our partners the
Speaker 2: belief that regardless of how you behave, I will forgive
Speaker 2: and maintain consistent, I'll love you regardless, we think we're
Speaker 2: showing them unconditional love. But what they'll end up doing
Speaker 2: is thinking that we are going to tolerate unconditional disrespect,
Speaker 2: and they end up just pushing our boundaries more and more.
Speaker 1: So what does he do?
Speaker 2: So what he does is make sure he's aware of
Speaker 2: when he's being disrespected. And we naturally human beings in general,
Speaker 2: and I think this as men and women. If you
Speaker 2: ever want to prevent yourself from getting cheated on, it's
Speaker 2: not so much that you have to spot the red
Speaker 2: flags in the other person. Sometimes you can become a
Speaker 2: person who never gets cheated on no matter what relationship
Speaker 2: we go, and you can become immunized to it. And
Speaker 2: the way to become immunized being cheated on is number one.
Speaker 2: Understanding your partner's true needs, Understanding what they actually need
Speaker 2: in a relationship and asking yourself, can I commit to that?
Speaker 2: So some people be in a relationship with somebody who's
Speaker 2: got a really high sex stripe, they just can't meet
Speaker 2: that need.
Speaker 3: If you know you can't, at some point that relationship
Speaker 3: is going to suffer.
Speaker 2: Or sometimes you might meet a partner who really needs
Speaker 2: financial support and you can't meet that need. At some
Speaker 2: point that relationship will break down. So understand your partner's
Speaker 2: true needs. The second thing is knowing that if they
Speaker 2: did cheat on you, you would leave. If you give
Speaker 2: the signals to your partner that you wouldn't leave no
Speaker 2: matter what they do, and you don't meet the needs
Speaker 2: of each other, chances out that relationship will let end
Speaker 2: in infidelity. But if you meet each other's needs and
Speaker 2: you have a rule, both of you have a particular rule,
Speaker 2: like if it did happen, I'm going to leave, There's
Speaker 2: no two ways about it.
Speaker 3: So your partner won't take that risk.
Speaker 2: They only take that risk when they believe unconsciously you're
Speaker 2: going to accept their behavior regardless of what they do,
Speaker 2: and the signals of that come earlier on. So it
Speaker 2: might be early signals that you catch that they're still
Speaker 2: on Tinder.
Speaker 3: You forgive them.
Speaker 2: You go through their phone, you find that they're still
Speaker 2: talking to other people. You forgive them. You forgive the
Speaker 2: footsteps too many times. I'm not saying you've become toxic
Speaker 2: and don't forgive anything, but you let them know that
Speaker 2: this behavior is not something I tolerate. You can do it,
Speaker 2: no problem, but I'm not going to stick around for it.
Speaker 2: When they learn that you mean what you say, they'll
Speaker 2: naturally improve. But if they see that you make a
Speaker 2: big kuha, you screamage out, but you actually tolerate more
Speaker 2: and more disrespect. You give them the signal that you'll
Speaker 2: accept any behavior, and they start taking more risks if
Speaker 2: it's the wrong person.
Speaker 1: What happens when someone is not in an abusive way,
Speaker 1: but they are disrespecting you. You make them aware that
Speaker 1: they're disrespecting you in a assertive way, but they keep
Speaker 1: doing it.
Speaker 2: What do you do when you can't change others, You
Speaker 2: have to change yourself, And the only thing you can
Speaker 2: do is withdraw and remove access utunately, that's the only
Speaker 2: way to teach people how to treat you correctly, is
Speaker 2: you remove the perks of being with you. And if
Speaker 2: they don't, if they and some people are scared to
Speaker 2: do that because they worry, then I'll lose them. But
Speaker 2: you'll lose a person who's going to continuously get more disrespectful.
Speaker 1: We're so scared of being alone, yeah, and we're so
Speaker 1: scared of not being with someone that I think we
Speaker 1: continue to accept that disrespect.
Speaker 2: I know, but sometimes it's more lonely staying with the
Speaker 2: wrong person. And this is why I think having a
Speaker 2: good social network is as important as having a good
Speaker 2: healthy relationship. A healthy relationship without a social network will
Speaker 2: lead to codependency. But your social network is so so
Speaker 2: important because what it does is as a relationship starts
Speaker 2: to fall apart, that fear of walking away when you
Speaker 2: need to is lessened. But when you don't have a
Speaker 2: social network, as that relationship starts to fall apart, you
Speaker 2: will tolerate more and more abuse because you're just so
Speaker 2: afraid of being alone, which we all are. We all are,
Speaker 2: But having a good social network acts as a buffer
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, when I'm listening to you talk about
Speaker 1: the type of man that women want, and the fact
Speaker 1: that if he's too much of a pushover, too sensitive,
Speaker 1: too much of a you know, walk over, Yeah, they
Speaker 1: lose respect.
Speaker 2: They may cheat, they made chea And from my work,
Speaker 2: what I've noticed is women fall in love in three stages,
Speaker 2: and if any of those stages are missing, the relationship
Speaker 2: will either break down very quickly or it break down
Speaker 2: very slowly, but it will break down. And I call
Speaker 2: it the three a's, and I have like a program
Speaker 2: on it. The first thing is women have to be
Speaker 2: truly attracted to their man in order for the relationship
Speaker 2: to actually turn into love. At some stage, there has
Speaker 2: to be physical attraction because naturally that fades with time,
Speaker 2: and you know, we so much familiarity. If we don't
Speaker 2: have that to begin with, it can become very difficult
Speaker 2: to start a romantic relationship. This is why we have
Speaker 2: so many friends, so many male friends, because if we're
Speaker 2: not truly attracted him, even if he's wonderful, we can't
Speaker 2: start a romantic relationship. So I always say it starts
Speaker 2: with attraction. The second stage for a woman to truly
Speaker 2: fall in love with the man, she has to admire
Speaker 2: who he is and what that means is with or
Speaker 2: without her influence. He's just a man that she admires.
Speaker 2: He's got a great job, he's got a good network
Speaker 2: of friends. He's got lots of self control. He's not
Speaker 2: an addict, and he's not addicted. He's got good level
Speaker 2: of self control in terms of money, his body, his
Speaker 2: sexual behavior. It's not all over the place. So she
Speaker 2: truly admires him. And then once she's attracted and admires him,
Speaker 2: then she needs adoration from him. He needs to show her,
Speaker 2: adore her, reassure her all of those things. If she
Speaker 2: gets all three of those chances out, her relationship won't
Speaker 2: break down. But if any of those are missing, maybe
Speaker 2: he adores her, absolutely adores her, but she's not truly
Speaker 2: attracted to him, at some stages in the relationship will
Speaker 2: break down because that adoration will feel like neediness. Or
Speaker 2: let's say, for example, she's truly attracted to him and
Speaker 2: he's giving her lots of reassurance, but he's not an
Speaker 2: admirable man. He's not working, he's not achieving, he's not
Speaker 2: doing a lot, even though she might love him, And
Speaker 2: it might be a slow breakdown, but some stage she'll
Speaker 2: need someone she can admire, particularly when she has children.
Speaker 2: So without those three ingredients, I don't think women realize this,
Speaker 2: but if any of those are missing, they will some
Speaker 2: stage lose interest.
Speaker 1: That's a great three step formula. And I think so
Speaker 1: much of the time we get so hooked on the
Speaker 1: attraction path. Yes, yeah, that we overvalue it compared to
Speaker 1: the other two. So if he's not six foot four
Speaker 1: and he's not got you know, a particular colored hair
Speaker 1: or whatever, it is, right, like, the physical appearance becomes
Speaker 1: so much more overvalued than the other two, or the
Speaker 1: admiration piece becomes so overvalued. So if he's not making
Speaker 1: enough money, he's not how do you kind of look
Speaker 1: at them as are they equal?
Speaker 2: Are they over They're actually equal, They're actually equally. If
Speaker 2: you have lots of physical attraction, you admire him lots,
Speaker 2: but he's not showing you any admiration.
Speaker 3: That will literally turn into a toxic relationship.
Speaker 2: You'll be begging for hugs and kisses and he won't
Speaker 2: give it to you. You'll be begging for him to
Speaker 2: give you compliments. He won't give it to you, but
Speaker 2: you won't. You'll be stuck because you're like, I know,
Speaker 2: he's a good man. So many women come to me
Speaker 2: and say, I know he's a good man. He's got
Speaker 2: a great job. He's such a he's so good at
Speaker 2: his work. All his friends love him. She admires him,
Speaker 2: and she's attracted him, but he doesn't adore her.
Speaker 3: She suffers a lot. He will start rejecting her sexually,
Speaker 3: doesn't remind us she's beautiful. She feels so.
Speaker 2: Invisible around him, but she's stuck because she's like on paper,
Speaker 2: he's a great man. So she's got two of those
Speaker 2: ingredients other times, and this is where the nice guy suffers.
Speaker 2: She's got so much adoration, so much reassurance. He loves her,
Speaker 2: he adores her, he's a good man, but she's just
Speaker 2: not attracted to him. And she's pushing herself to really
Speaker 2: love him, but she just simply can't find the physical attraction.
Speaker 2: And then she kind of thinks gaslights herself and be like,
Speaker 2: am I an evil person? How can I not love him?
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with you, it's just those three ingredients
Speaker 2: if they're not there. And I know it sounds like
Speaker 2: we're being super fussy, but it doesn't have to be
Speaker 2: super fussy. My husband's no oil painting it's not that.
Speaker 2: It's just the fact that I am attracted. It's as
Speaker 2: simple as that. And it doesn't mean he's cured cancer.
Speaker 2: I just admire the person he is.
Speaker 3: That's all it is. He doesn't have to be extreme.
Speaker 2: It's just that I've got attraction and admiration and the
Speaker 2: adoration you just need your level of that. Missing those
Speaker 2: ingredients is either a quick end because it will be
Speaker 2: toxic he's just not you the love you need, or
Speaker 2: it'll be a slow one because you're not getting you're
Speaker 2: not truly attracted. But either way, it will break down.
Speaker 1: I think the key part of that is, though, what
Speaker 1: you just said in regards to your own husband is
Speaker 1: it's about how you feel, that's all. And I think
Speaker 1: the challenge, going back to what we were talking about earlier,
Speaker 1: is so many of our expectations of our partner are
Speaker 1: based on like do my friends like them, Do they
Speaker 1: have a good, you know, online presence? Are they successful
Speaker 1: at their job compared to And it's like you can
Speaker 1: only look at it through your angle, yeah, only because
Speaker 1: you could compare forever and you're no matter who how
Speaker 1: successful your partner is, they'd always be second to someone
Speaker 1: else out there.
Speaker 2: In the world, especially in this day and age, it
Speaker 2: always like, not everybody's going to have a husband that
Speaker 2: is great at writing poems and singing songs about them,
Speaker 2: but he still adores you in his way, and that
Speaker 2: works for you. You don't know, and you know sometimes
Speaker 2: some girls will be like, oh my god, you go
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty with your husband. I could never But
Speaker 2: if that works in your marriage and you're both doing
Speaker 2: the best you can, that's perfect.
Speaker 3: Like, it's totally fine.
Speaker 2: You don't have to compare yourself to the standards that
Speaker 2: have been hijacked by TikTok me. Just as long as
Speaker 2: it works for you, no problem. But if you miss
Speaker 2: those ingredients, unfortunately, at some stage you'll realize that the
Speaker 2: relationship is not quite working.
Speaker 3: And doesn't mean you become extra fussy.
Speaker 2: It just means you pay attention to this and you
Speaker 2: figure out which of those is missing and try and
Speaker 2: work on that. Maybe the adoration is missing, try and
Speaker 2: work on that, maybe the attraction is missing. There's nothing
Speaker 2: wrong with telling your partner, babe, i'd love it if
Speaker 2: we start working out together. There's nothing wrong with doing that.
Speaker 2: But if we miss those things and then we ignore
Speaker 2: the resolution unfortunate, our relationships will suffer.
Speaker 1: I think that's my favorite checklistuff ever.
Speaker 3: It just it's simple, but it works.
Speaker 1: It's simple, but it's really powerful because it's not just
Speaker 1: a random checklist. It's things you could actually observe in
Speaker 1: how you feel. And you're right, it's all three. It's
Speaker 1: just all three because often the admiration piece just overclouds
Speaker 1: the other stuff. And I always say to someone, you're
Speaker 1: not marrying someone's resume. Yeah, you're not dating someone's bank balance.
Speaker 2: And because I live in to buy, I see this
Speaker 2: a lot. They'll meet a CEO, he's an entrepreneur and
Speaker 2: he pays all the bill and he's fantastic. He really
Speaker 2: is fantastic at that, but either she's not attracted him
Speaker 2: or he's too busy to give her any adoration. At
Speaker 2: some stage, you're crave it. If we could just do
Speaker 2: one and just live a relationship on one, I would
Speaker 2: tell women to just focus on one. Some men are
Speaker 2: better at doing one. They just physically attracted and they're
Speaker 2: kind of happy with that, but it's an empty libe.
Speaker 2: I think for women, we really crave all three of them.
Speaker 2: Outside of that, honestly, it doesn't matter if he buys
Speaker 2: your flowers every day, if you write superms, if you
Speaker 2: make tiktoks with you or not, they really don't matter.
Speaker 2: Just have those three you'll be fine, God willing.
Speaker 1: So those are the three a's for women. What about
Speaker 1: for men?
Speaker 2: It's the three l's I call it for men. The
Speaker 2: first one is they do need some lust. I know
Speaker 2: it sounds really shallow, but if they're not sexually attracted
Speaker 2: to you, no matter how wonderful you are, no matter
Speaker 2: what the relationship is like, especially in this day and
Speaker 2: age where they're saturated with porn, they will shift their
Speaker 2: attention elsewhere. So there has to be some level of lust.
Speaker 2: And what I mean by lust is they're attracted to you,
Speaker 2: but this sexual connection between, this synergy in that area.
Speaker 2: The second thing, and I think men don't realize, is
Speaker 2: that we actually need They need some lady but invested
Speaker 2: in their partner. And what I mean by that is
Speaker 2: emotional and financial labor invested in their partners. Some men
Speaker 2: will think, oh, she's successful, she doesn't need any financial investment,
Speaker 2: or she doesn't need any emotional she's strong.
Speaker 3: They just need it.
Speaker 2: The moment they invest in a woman, they're more likely
Speaker 2: to see that relationship go through. If he's not taking
Speaker 2: her anywhere and not doing anything for her, if the
Speaker 2: relationship ends, he's not bothered. Basically, if he's invested in her,
Speaker 2: he's taken on, he places, he's bought a few things,
Speaker 2: he's done, he's invested emotionally in financially to her, he's
Speaker 2: more likely to want to see that relationship work out.
Speaker 3: And the final thing is the loyalty.
Speaker 2: If they don't become loyal and the woman and there's
Speaker 2: no loyalty in that relationship and they've got their options open,
Speaker 2: they're not truly in love. They need those three things
Speaker 2: in order for them to truly be in love. They
Speaker 2: need to first need lust, have some lust, put some
Speaker 2: labor into that relationship, and then they need to be loyal.
Speaker 2: If they say that I'm in love with you, but
Speaker 2: I'm not loyal truly, they're missing something. They need it reciprocated.
Speaker 2: If you're not loyal to them and they still love you,
Speaker 2: that's actually they're stuck in the lust stage. They need
Speaker 2: reciprocated loyalty in order for it to be truly a
Speaker 2: healthy relationship, and then they're fine.
Speaker 3: After that. We don't care about that they'll be fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, it makes a lot of sense. I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about just I feel like you've totally reframed.
Speaker 2: What can I ask you though, because I might be
Speaker 2: wrong for a man's perspective, is that correct or not?
Speaker 3: Really? Is there something that you would say that you
Speaker 3: need a little bit more or less of?
Speaker 1: Let me think on that.
Speaker 2: It's a great question, because what I'm trying to say
Speaker 2: is that because sometimes I meet men and they meet
Speaker 2: a wonderful woman, They've put a lot of energy, invested
Speaker 2: a lot into her. They're very loyal to each other.
Speaker 2: But because there's no attraction left, of course, they turn
Speaker 2: to pornography too much. And that is a very slippery slope.
Speaker 2: And that's why a little bit they need some lust
Speaker 2: in their first and foremost before those other properties can
Speaker 2: be valued in a woman.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it goes back to what we were
Speaker 1: saying earlier. You told us why women cheat. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is why men cheat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big factor. And I you know, I
Speaker 2: know we like to think that people cheat simply because
Speaker 2: they're narcissists and simply because they're like that. There are
Speaker 2: some men that come that way. There are some men
Speaker 2: that genuinely, no matter who they're with, no matter what
Speaker 2: the relationship is, they're too broken to be faithful. They
Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable being faithful. They're going to cheat on everyone.
Speaker 2: But a lot of the time they are deprived of
Speaker 2: the intimacy. Yeah, either because they just didn't choose a
Speaker 2: woman that was attracted to them to begin with, or
Speaker 2: they ruin the intimacy by inviting too much pornography or
Speaker 2: alternatives into relationship and now they've got no intimacy left
Speaker 2: with their partner. But when they do lose the intimacy,
Speaker 2: they lose the motivation to be loyal. They think they're
Speaker 2: more likely to be loyal to a women that gives
Speaker 2: them good intimacy than a woman that gives them a
Speaker 2: good life because they think why their motivation to be
Speaker 2: loyal decreases as their sexual intimacy dies in their relationship,
Speaker 2: so they're more likely to be open to it. So
Speaker 2: I always tell people, try and guard your marriage by
Speaker 2: embedding the intimacy in it as regularly as you can.
Speaker 1: No, I think you've hit the core root things that
Speaker 1: people are looking for, and how they show up is
Speaker 1: always different. Yes, And I think that's why I was
Speaker 1: saying earlier, it feels like you've hit the core at
Speaker 1: the root of what's needed trying to I don't think
Speaker 1: you've missed anything. I'm just sitting with it. But I
Speaker 1: think anything that I would say are only things that
Speaker 1: are part of those Like, for example, you know the
Speaker 1: loyalty piece includes respect, like both people are looking for respect.
Speaker 1: I think that the loyalty police includes like they believe
Speaker 1: in your goals and you believe in there's like there's
Speaker 1: root causes, and I.
Speaker 2: Think sometimes those women. We can remove the labor part,
Speaker 2: hoping that he would think that we're so low maintenance
Speaker 2: he won't put any investment in us. Roby so easy,
Speaker 2: we become the hook up girl. So what I mean
Speaker 2: by that is, if we remove his ability to put
Speaker 2: labor into us, we don't say to him like, let's
Speaker 2: go on dates. We don't say like, look, when are
Speaker 2: we getting married. There's no emotional we don't burden him
Speaker 2: with any problems, and we think, no, let's.
Speaker 3: Just be cool.
Speaker 2: We think that being cool eventually he will lead to
Speaker 2: us as commitment and he'll become loyal to us. Actually,
Speaker 2: he has to put the labor in in order for
Speaker 2: us to see see as something worth being law too,
Speaker 2: So if we deprive them of that, we actually are
Speaker 2: enhancing the chances of us just being a hook up,
Speaker 2: short term fling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how you avoid being.
Speaker 2: The avoid being the fling is making it so easy
Speaker 2: for them, And I know it's so tempting because sometimes
Speaker 2: you're thinking, he's such a lovely guy, really attracted to him,
Speaker 2: And if I insist on a few dates, orr, if
Speaker 2: I insist on like maybe going away together, maybe I'll
Speaker 2: lose him. But you'll only lose people who are not
Speaker 2: willing to invest in you anyway.
Speaker 3: So unfortunately, being too easy it can work.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it never works, but at the same time,
Speaker 2: it doesn't motivate them in any way, shape or form
Speaker 2: to actually make this serious because they've got it so easy.
Speaker 1: What's the difference between the woman a man dates and
Speaker 1: the woman a man marries.
Speaker 2: I would say the key difference is the element of
Speaker 2: stability and responsibility. And what I mean by that is
Speaker 2: being with a man who is super social, who's a
Speaker 2: big drinker and has got all these friends in busy
Speaker 2: or day every day and got this amazing life.
Speaker 3: Is great for dates.
Speaker 2: You get to go on great vacations with him, You
Speaker 2: get to go to red, nice restaurants and so on
Speaker 2: and so forth. But when we get when it comes
Speaker 2: to getting married, if you don't look for a man
Speaker 2: that a lot of self control, you will really suffer.
Speaker 2: And what I mean by this is that he needs
Speaker 2: to have self control in terms of his sexual discipline.
Speaker 2: He needs self control in terms of what he puts
Speaker 2: into his body, even the food he eats everything, And
Speaker 2: he needs self control when it comes to his money.
Speaker 2: If in those areas he's got no self control for dating,
Speaker 2: no problem, it doesn't matter. Yeah, he can be sexually wild,
Speaker 2: he can spend all his money, no problem. You can
Speaker 2: enjoy a great life when you marry a man like that.
Speaker 2: Every day's anxiety, every single day's anxiety because his lack
Speaker 2: of self control will lead to lack of self respect,
Speaker 2: and as a result, he'll have such low self esteem
Speaker 2: that you can't trust him to make decisions. But men
Speaker 2: with lots of self control, you can trust that they
Speaker 2: make great decisions. You can trust their judgment, and you
Speaker 2: can finally start a family or start your goals. But
Speaker 2: you can't do that with men who have got no
Speaker 2: self control.
Speaker 1: Do you know what the amazing thing is that as
Speaker 1: I was listening to you, I was thinking about, like,
Speaker 1: men don't learn that anywhere. No, they it's so hard,
Speaker 1: Like if I never lived as a monk, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have any sense.
Speaker 3: What's your biggest lesson? Were living with money?
Speaker 1: I mean a big part of it is self control,
Speaker 1: like don't you don't you eat what you're giving? You
Speaker 1: celibate while you're there. There's complete focus in determination on
Speaker 1: the path. And so there were so many amazing mental
Speaker 1: mastery tools that I gained in terms of discipline an
Speaker 1: organization that I don't know where else I would have
Speaker 1: learned them.
Speaker 3: Can you excel as a man without self control? Do
Speaker 3: you think?
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 3: It's an impossibility, isn't it.
Speaker 1: That's what you're saying. I just feel bad because I
Speaker 1: can't think of.
Speaker 2: It's the opposite that actually we're told men are being
Speaker 2: told that be with as many women as you can.
Speaker 3: We have zero.
Speaker 2: Sexual discipline, and you know, you can kind of eat whatever,
Speaker 2: and there's always a zembic, so don't worry about it
Speaker 2: or this.
Speaker 3: We're actually being told to reduce.
Speaker 2: Our like our self control and replace it with hedonism
Speaker 2: follow your impulses and you only live once.
Speaker 3: Just do it.
Speaker 2: That kind of mentality when it comes to drinking, when
Speaker 2: it comes to food, when it comes to money, to spend, spend,
Speaker 2: spend all these things. Unfortunately, we're pushing men into a
Speaker 2: slow and steady depression because we're reducing the importance of
Speaker 2: self control and replacing it with self indult audience. And
Speaker 2: that is a slow suicide for a man. He will
Speaker 2: only start to respect himself when he can control himself.
Speaker 2: And they're only when he can control himself he can
Speaker 2: then excel. And if you pick a man who can't
Speaker 2: control himself, you'll spend the rest of your life trying
Speaker 2: to control him, and it will bring out the worst
Speaker 2: side of you. You'll become a mother to a child
Speaker 2: you'd never wanted to adopt.
Speaker 1: Wow, that might drop. They're so powerful. It's as I'm
Speaker 1: listening to you, I'm just sitting here thinking how much
Speaker 1: there is a need in helping men realize the mental mastery, sense, control,
Speaker 1: discipline are what's going to find the right person. But
Speaker 1: I think the problem is men also believe that if
Speaker 1: they're the life of the party, if they're the big spender,
Speaker 1: if they're the big guy at the that's what's going
Speaker 1: to attract the right person.
Speaker 2: Attract a chaotic person. There are women, lots of women
Speaker 2: that were like that. There are lots and lots of
Speaker 2: women that were like that. You're a big spender, you're
Speaker 2: spending on bottles, you're going drinking all night and or
Speaker 2: the life and soul of the party. But it will
Speaker 2: attract women who want a fast life. Dome probably don't
Speaker 2: want to invest in you. They're probably not going to
Speaker 2: be there when you're suffering and you're on a downward spiral.
Speaker 2: My reason I'm so strict on men when it comes
Speaker 2: to self discipline and sexual discipline in particular, is we
Speaker 2: live in a time where men don't really get a
Speaker 2: say in when a baby is born. It's not really
Speaker 2: up to them if that child stays. And all women
Speaker 2: have the right way. I don't know what it's like
Speaker 2: in America, but usually we get to control if we
Speaker 2: want to keep the baby or don't want to keep
Speaker 2: the baby, and as a result, we get some autonomy.
Speaker 2: If it's the wrong man perfect we don't have to
Speaker 2: suffer the consequences. But with men, if you get the
Speaker 2: wrong person and you don't have a good relationship, and
Speaker 2: then you bring children into that mix, you create a
Speaker 2: generation of broken children, and you.
Speaker 3: Are more responsible for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have to be more careful than women do.
Speaker 2: Because we still have autonomy. We can get rid of
Speaker 2: a child if we need to. You can't really have
Speaker 2: that much say in it. So you have to be
Speaker 2: so disciplined with who you are laying down with, and
Speaker 2: if you're I know men who have ruined their families
Speaker 2: just because they couldn't control themselves sexually, or just because
Speaker 2: they couldn't have that right conversation with their wife and say, look,
Speaker 2: I'm missing the intimacy, Maybe we should just part Instead,
Speaker 2: they just light a flame into their own home and
Speaker 2: then suffer the consequences. So sexual discipline is a really
Speaker 2: really important one for men, followed by financial discipline, and
Speaker 2: then of course in terms of your food and your
Speaker 2: health and stuff like that I think is really important.
Speaker 1: What's your take on women sleeping with men too early.
Speaker 2: I think it's really difficult for women because a lot
Speaker 2: of women do want to preserve themselves. They don't want
Speaker 2: to jump into sleeping with men so early. But what
Speaker 2: they're finding in this day and age is if they
Speaker 2: don't lead with that. The men don't even want to
Speaker 2: know them anymore. Men have no longer wanted to invest
Speaker 2: in getting to know them psychologically or anything like that.
Speaker 2: So they're almost stuck between am I just going to
Speaker 2: stay lonely forever? Or do I end up just sleeping
Speaker 2: with men? Or I'm not even that keen on but
Speaker 2: I have to stay in the game. So they are
Speaker 2: really stuck. But what I would say is, try not
Speaker 2: to accelerate your physical intimacy above the psychological intimacy. You
Speaker 2: can sleep within that same day, but if you've really
Speaker 2: had strong psychological intimacy, you know where you two are going.
Speaker 2: You are in a good place with each other. Do
Speaker 2: whatever you want. But if you don't have that, all
Speaker 2: the sex will do is enhance your own insecurity, to
Speaker 2: enhance your own anxieties about the relationship, and then it
Speaker 2: will leave you dampened into the dating market when you
Speaker 2: go back into it, and negativity with the new man
Speaker 2: and the new man, so it just lowers your own
Speaker 2: self esteem. So try and accelerate the psychological intimacy first.
Speaker 1: How would you define psychological intimacy versus like, we're just
Speaker 1: excited by being.
Speaker 2: To your chemistry, Yeah, it's difficult. Chemistry is how much
Speaker 2: you're enjoying the person's company. You can have great chemistry
Speaker 2: with everybody. Psychological intimacy is how much you're similar in
Speaker 2: your goals and values. So how similar I can enjoy
Speaker 2: the company of somebody really easily. No, it's not a problem.
Speaker 2: But you might realize that they're still you know, they're
Speaker 2: still parting a lot, maybe they're still on drugs, maybe
Speaker 2: they're doing that. But psychological intimacy is do we have
Speaker 2: the same vision of where we see ourselves in five, six,
Speaker 2: ten years time, and are we both aligned in the
Speaker 2: values that will take us there. And if we've got
Speaker 2: an alignment, you're probably quite intimate. If you haven't got
Speaker 2: an alignment, you can enjoy them, but chances are it
Speaker 2: won't be a long lasting relationship.
Speaker 1: Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from
Speaker 1: our sponsors, and now let's get back to the episode.
Speaker 1: I like the idea that physical intimacy should follow the
Speaker 1: pace of psychological intimacy because then there's actual closeness. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're not using physical closeness as a substitute for
Speaker 1: actually having a deeper, meaningful connection.
Speaker 3: And a lot of people do that.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they got with somebody they're so physically intimate, and
Speaker 2: then they're discovering things that they have nothing in common
Speaker 2: with each other. But because they've now slept together, they're
Speaker 2: kind of prolonging this relationship longer than it needs to.
Speaker 3: It's almost like dragging a dead horse.
Speaker 2: So if they can accelerate, And I know, it's difficult
Speaker 2: because it's hard competing with men that push for it,
Speaker 2: or we're living in a world where men will ask
Speaker 2: for pictures straight away and stuff like that, So it's
Speaker 2: hard for the woman that is. And I always say this,
Speaker 2: it's really difficult for the woman with good intentions to
Speaker 2: find a man in this day and age. The woman
Speaker 2: that's not prepared to lead sexually and lead with that,
Speaker 2: she finds herself being overlooked by the women that are
Speaker 2: and so and a bit like some men then maybe
Speaker 2: they don't want to lead with finances, but they find
Speaker 2: themselves being overlooked. So the people who are actually going
Speaker 2: into relationships with the correct intentions are finding it the
Speaker 2: most difficult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 3: It's so hard for them.
Speaker 1: And you shouldn't lower your standards.
Speaker 2: You shouldn't and but I can see why people do.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be judgmental because I can completely understand.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it's like to be single in
Speaker 2: this day and age, and I can imagine. So at
Speaker 2: some point, you're just like, if I keep having these
Speaker 2: high standards, I'm never going to meet somebody. What I
Speaker 2: would say is keep your intrinsic standards high and your
Speaker 2: extrinsic ones low. And what I mean by that is,
Speaker 2: keep your standards of how you like to be treated
Speaker 2: emotionally really high. Do you like to expact? Do you
Speaker 2: like labels? Do you like regular dates? Keep that high?
Speaker 2: Or regular time together doesn't even have to be dates,
Speaker 2: Keep that high. But keep your extrinsic values like does
Speaker 2: he take me on holidays?
Speaker 3: Is he going to buy me?
Speaker 1: This?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 2: Got mis sent me flowers? Keep those low. They're not
Speaker 2: relevant in the long run.
Speaker 1: Everything you're saying is in my venuon is spot on.
Speaker 1: It's such great advice, and I really hope everyone who's
Speaker 1: listening is taking notes because there's so much that you're
Speaker 1: sharing that I think you're so clear in your approach.
Speaker 1: I think it's really practical. I think it will connect.
Speaker 1: But I've heard you say before that if someone cheats
Speaker 1: on you, it's partly your fault. I do say that,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to hear your.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that sounds terrible, and I say this
Speaker 2: particularly with you know, men especially, I'm like, it's always
Speaker 2: were in fault. And the reason I say that's most
Speaker 2: cheaters come with smoking guns on the first day. There's
Speaker 2: always some signal that their behavior was not transparent. And
Speaker 2: whenever you catch them cheating, usually so they say, I
Speaker 2: always knew because from day one they were like this.
Speaker 2: And I always say people usually don't lie. They might
Speaker 2: say lies, but they show you their red flags pretty
Speaker 2: much from day one. And it might have been that
Speaker 2: they were in a relationship when you met them, or
Speaker 2: it might have been that you caught them in a
Speaker 2: few lives when you first got with them, you would
Speaker 2: have caught some signs that this person is capable of
Speaker 2: deeper lies. And when I'm not saying you should always
Speaker 2: look for the bad. But when we keep ignoring poor behavior,
Speaker 2: what ends up happening is we are becoming distant from
Speaker 2: the truth. We are going into denial. I actually don't
Speaker 2: have a problem even if your partner is cheating no problem.
Speaker 2: You have to have radical, radical relationship.
Speaker 3: With the truth.
Speaker 2: And there are some women out there that are mistresses.
Speaker 2: They're so happy in that role because they know the truth.
Speaker 2: They know that he goes there spend time with his wife.
Speaker 2: I'll see when I see him. Truth is really important.
Speaker 2: So the more you align yourself with truth, the more
Speaker 2: you won't actually get blindsided. But when you start missing
Speaker 2: red flags again and again, you haven't been intimate in months,
Speaker 2: somebody is not coming home one time. Nothing's adding up,
Speaker 2: and you keep making excuses. Unfortunately, we create the environment
Speaker 2: for these types of people to flourish. It's almost better
Speaker 2: that you protect your own home and protect your own sanity.
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean you become accusatory, but you know that your
Speaker 2: treatment is not what you appreciate. And if they continue
Speaker 2: like that, they don't have to cheat. The behavior is
Speaker 2: enough for you to start setting a boundary and the
Speaker 2: behaviors you don't need. Because some cheaters will say, well,
Speaker 2: you can't prove anything. Cheatas will always want you to
Speaker 2: catch them red handed, you as the person, should say,
Speaker 2: I don't need red handed evidence. I can see your
Speaker 2: behaviors not treating me rightly. Stop them there before they
Speaker 2: get to the point where they're disrespecting you more and more.
Speaker 1: That's where the gas line comes in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's where the gaslighting.
Speaker 1: Yes, people get gas They.
Speaker 3: Do get gaslighted really heavily.
Speaker 2: And this is even as a psychologist, and you know,
Speaker 2: when I'm as a therapist, and this is where I
Speaker 2: have to be a lot more empathetic because I've had
Speaker 2: clients there that were like, she keeps accusing me, and
Speaker 2: they're so like convincing that I'm like, you need to
Speaker 2: stop accusing him. I don't, and then she'll take to me.
Speaker 2: Afterwards I found out he was having an affair the
Speaker 2: whole time. So the gas lighting is very very real.
Speaker 2: But the feeling they give you is always true. So
Speaker 2: they'll lie to you or their words their lips will
Speaker 2: be learned. But you're feeling that got instinct that something's
Speaker 2: not right or they're lying. To try and pay attention
Speaker 2: to that, and even if you never get evidence, that
Speaker 2: feeling is partly your partner's responsibility to help soothe those anxieties,
Speaker 2: not make them worse. So if you have that feeling
Speaker 2: and they're just like maybe like whatever you need, like
Speaker 2: to make you feel better, I have no problem. I've
Speaker 2: got nothing to hide. But if they get less and
Speaker 2: less transparent, try and pay attention to that.
Speaker 1: What I'm hearing from you is, if you pay attention
Speaker 1: to the signs that you're seeing, you don't let yourself
Speaker 1: be in a position where you're taking advantage I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, No, your partner better than they know themselves.
Speaker 2: At the moment they start changing, you spot it quicker than.
Speaker 3: They can so.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure you have this with Radi where you
Speaker 2: probably know her so so well that it would be
Speaker 2: difficult for her to have a double life without you.
Speaker 3: You know her behaviors.
Speaker 2: Or where she moves, how she talks, how she kisses you,
Speaker 2: everything you pay close attention.
Speaker 3: We pay so much attention to your partner.
Speaker 2: It's quite difficult for them to live a whole double
Speaker 2: life without you catching on. So try and stay at
Speaker 2: tuned as much as you can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, every relationship has a rhythm as a pattern, and
Speaker 1: when the pattern's off, you check in. I think one
Speaker 1: of the things I see in relationship struggling is, especially
Speaker 1: as they get longer term, is we don't recommit, so
Speaker 1: life changes. Right. Me and Radi had a dating life
Speaker 1: when we got married. We had to recommit to a
Speaker 1: different way of living. When we got married. Then we
Speaker 1: lived in New York, we had to recommit to a
Speaker 1: different way of living. We moved to la different way
Speaker 1: of living. It's almost like I've dated so many different
Speaker 1: people in radi as in, she's evolved, she's changed and
Speaker 1: saying back at me. Probably to some degree, but I
Speaker 1: think we don't I keep when our partner changes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we almost want them to stay the same. Or
Speaker 1: I've heard maybe you say before that we almost want
Speaker 1: our The guy wants the woman to never change, yeah,
Speaker 1: and the woman wants the man to change.
Speaker 3: Yeah. That's the problem.
Speaker 2: One thing I say is that some men are committed
Speaker 2: to their marriage. And what that means is they're committed
Speaker 2: to that woman as she changes, as they change, is
Speaker 2: they commit to each other. They're loyal to the person
Speaker 2: that they've they married, and they will stay loyal forever.
Speaker 2: Some men are just loyal to the woman they fell
Speaker 2: in love with. As long as she stays exactly like
Speaker 2: the person they met, they'll stay loyal. When she starts
Speaker 2: to change, they'll get more and more disloyal because they
Speaker 2: don't accept change. You just have to decide what type
Speaker 2: of person are you are? Are you deciding to commit
Speaker 2: to the marriage, and actually what that means is following
Speaker 2: them through the evolution, getting to know them at every stage,
Speaker 2: and staying.
Speaker 3: Loyal throughout it.
Speaker 2: But if you're somebody who's just committing to the person
Speaker 2: you fell in love with, the moment that person starts
Speaker 2: to change, which they inevitably will, your eyes will start
Speaker 2: to wonder. So it might be good to have that
Speaker 2: conversation with each other, which one are we? And can
Speaker 2: we try and shift to being loyal to the marriage
Speaker 2: rather than just each other, so that we can help
Speaker 2: each other evolve and remain consistent while we do change.
Speaker 1: What can a woman do to make sure a man
Speaker 1: doesn't she on her.
Speaker 2: Have a willingness to walk away when she's being disrespected.
Speaker 2: That's all it really takes. When men know that you
Speaker 2: will always be there for them. You're there, ride or die.
Speaker 2: You accept any kind of disrespect. They've been abusive, you
Speaker 2: accept it. They've been coming home late, you accept it.
Speaker 2: They are talking to other people, you accept it. And
Speaker 2: you always make excuses for them. I know you love him,
Speaker 2: and I know your love is unconditional, but respects shouldn't
Speaker 2: be unconditional. Yeah, she shouldn't be treated disrespectfully regardless of
Speaker 2: that behavior. And when and I know human behavior, we
Speaker 2: should appreciate the person that is loyal to us. We
Speaker 2: should appreciate the person who loves us regardless.
Speaker 3: We just don't. Unfortunately, we just don't.
Speaker 2: So when they see that your love is totally unconditional,
Speaker 2: they will start abusing that love that you have for them.
Speaker 2: But when they learn that you love them, you're very
Speaker 2: loyal to them, you care about them, but that doesn't
Speaker 2: give them a license to abuse you or hurt you,
Speaker 2: then they are more like to stay in line. So
Speaker 2: I think the thing that prevents them from truly cheating
Speaker 2: is knowing that you have a willingness to walk away
Speaker 2: and you don't tolerate this level of disrespect, they start
Speaker 2: to show you a.
Speaker 3: Bit more respect.
Speaker 2: And I've noticed so many men who have cheated on
Speaker 2: their wives, and they were.
Speaker 3: Felt no guilt, zero guilt.
Speaker 2: The moment she filed for divorce, they were besides themselves.
Speaker 2: So for the year that they were cheating, they were
Speaker 2: having the time of their life. The day she filed
Speaker 2: for divorce, besides themselves, crying hysterically because at some point
Speaker 2: on conscious level, they thought she would never actually do that.
Speaker 2: The day she did that is when the realization all
Speaker 2: sunk in. So when the person knows that you're not
Speaker 2: too afraid to take that room, they're more likely to
Speaker 2: be respectful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's not threatening people with it, it's actually
Speaker 1: doing it for real, just once. Because I find like
Speaker 1: me and Raddy made it real early in our relationship
Speaker 1: that we would never throw around the word divorce, we'd
Speaker 1: never throw around the word break up, We'd never throw
Speaker 1: around any of these words that if you were to
Speaker 1: say it, you'd have to actually back it up. Then
Speaker 1: you'd actually have to be there. Because I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be in a relationship where these things were used
Speaker 1: as level yeah, or used as kind of ammunition to
Speaker 1: get a reaction out of someone.
Speaker 2: It's only used when you actually, God forbid need it.
Speaker 2: But I always to say that one of my vows
Speaker 2: that I recommend to my clients. I know it sounds negative,
Speaker 2: is we can sit there and say I'm going to
Speaker 2: love you forever, I'm going to be loyal forever. Probably
Speaker 2: the more realistic vow to say to each other, not
Speaker 2: even just marriages. As a couple is if and when
Speaker 2: my feelings start to change, I will communicate it with
Speaker 2: you and that way we can work on the relationship.
Speaker 2: Where people go wrong is as in when their feelings change,
Speaker 2: they don't they avoid communication and they outsource their happiness
Speaker 2: from somewhere else, or they not, they numb their pain
Speaker 2: through a coping mechanism. The better vow to take is
Speaker 2: if and when my feelings ever change, instead of hurting
Speaker 2: you and disrespect to you, I will come straight to
Speaker 2: you and we can try and fix it.
Speaker 3: And if we can't fix it.
Speaker 2: We will separate on respectful terms. But doing things that
Speaker 2: cause permanent damage is just not acceptable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's such a fine line because, yeah, we
Speaker 1: sometimes like to in an argument in the heat of it,
Speaker 1: you'll pretend to say and that that person still knows
Speaker 1: that you don't mean it, just making it up to
Speaker 1: get a reaction, and it doesn't have any values.
Speaker 2: It's more of a cry for help and we've all
Speaker 2: done it, all done it. But it's a seriousness of
Speaker 2: like if you go to I'm not saying have that
Speaker 2: divorce word ever, but have deal breakers. What I mean
Speaker 2: by deal breakers is one or two things that if
Speaker 2: this happened in my relationship. There's just no negotiation. It
Speaker 2: might be hitting, it might be cheating. Is there's a
Speaker 2: deal breaker? If you eat sense that our partner has
Speaker 2: no deal breakers, They're more likely to attract narcissistic partners.
Speaker 2: They're more likely to attract abusers, they're more likely to
Speaker 2: attract takers. But if you come with a clear deal breakers,
Speaker 2: people can sense that confidence, and usually you don't attract
Speaker 2: people who are going to do your deal breakers.
Speaker 1: Anyway, if a man cheats on a woman, can they recover?
Speaker 2: I think it depends on the reason. I still think
Speaker 2: it's difficult. The reason I say it's difficult is that
Speaker 2: it becomes a point of contention pretty much permanently. I
Speaker 2: would say you can only forgive a person if the
Speaker 2: cause of the cheating is somewhat understandable. So I famously said, like, look,
Speaker 2: if a woman cheats on a man, you can never
Speaker 2: forgive us. She's going to cheat on you forever, and
Speaker 2: she's just using you for free accommodation.
Speaker 3: And I used to and I do stand by that.
Speaker 2: Usually when a woman cheats on a man, there's usually
Speaker 2: very little recovery. But then i'd have clients and the
Speaker 2: woman would say to me, he deprived me of sex
Speaker 2: for six years, four years, he wasn't sleeping with you.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do as one I had.
Speaker 2: I was so lost. I didn't know and my culture
Speaker 2: we don't get divorced. I didn't know what to do
Speaker 2: in those circumstances. It's like, did they really cheat or
Speaker 2: did you push.
Speaker 3: Them to that point?
Speaker 2: Are they actually an inherent cheat or did the circumstance
Speaker 2: of that relationship bring out the worst in them? I
Speaker 2: think if they're an inherent cheat and they do it
Speaker 2: from day one, they did it even while you were
Speaker 2: good to them, even while you're consistent in caring all
Speaker 2: of these things, I don't think there's any point recovering
Speaker 2: that relationship. But if it was something that happened in
Speaker 2: the relationship that brought out the worst in them, and
Speaker 2: you can repair what happened in that relationship, then perhaps
Speaker 2: you can give it a chance, particularly you've deprived each
Speaker 2: other of intimacy, because that's usually the main cause. If
Speaker 2: you've deprived each other of intimacy, it's almost a bit
Speaker 2: unf to expect a partner to be lawer for five, six,
Speaker 2: seven years. If you've never given them any intimacy and
Speaker 2: they're still a human. They got needs, So I can
Speaker 2: understand in those circumstances that they might do things that
Speaker 2: are out of character.
Speaker 1: It's always hard because when people look at it from
Speaker 1: their own perspective, they're always like, but I was loving
Speaker 1: to you the whole time, right, that's generally our reaction.
Speaker 1: It's almost like, but I was good to you, yeah,
Speaker 1: and the other person's like, well I didn't see it
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: Well, you might have been good to me, but the
Speaker 2: needs weren't met. Yeah, so you might be. And I
Speaker 2: know couples I've never fought, no fights, no nothing, but
Speaker 2: they just didn't have any intimacy for years. Or they
Speaker 2: might have been a couple that actually don't fight, no
Speaker 2: issues in that time, but there might be some emotional
Speaker 2: needs that they just weren't kissing or harging or saying
Speaker 2: nice things to each other. So it's the needs rather
Speaker 2: than just a surface of the relationship that matters more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what have you seen when you're as you said,
Speaker 1: we started with this idea that men who've been cheated
Speaker 1: on by women, what have you seen the success rates
Speaker 1: of healing growth for that individual? Even if they don't
Speaker 1: stay with the same person.
Speaker 2: I find that men that get cheated on once tend
Speaker 2: to get cheated on in every relationship. And I know
Speaker 2: that sounds terrible, but there's something about them getting cheated
Speaker 2: on in one relationship. They tend to get it a lot.
Speaker 2: And the reason why is because firstly, there's something broken
Speaker 2: in their selection. They're selecting women that need a lot
Speaker 2: of repair and have a lot of trauma and have
Speaker 2: a lot of issues. So they're selecting women who aren't
Speaker 2: truly attracted to them, but they're super attracted to that
Speaker 2: partner and they're trying to be useful to get that
Speaker 2: woman's attachment. The second thing is when they do meet
Speaker 2: a woman that has a few red flags, they are
Speaker 2: so so passive with those red flags. They don't have
Speaker 2: the ability to set boundaries. They don't know when to
Speaker 2: set us say no. They feel like they're being toxic
Speaker 2: if they have any kind of needs or wants, so
Speaker 2: they just become too placid. And in those cases, what
Speaker 2: ends up happening is they attract women with a lot
Speaker 2: of red flags because they don't have the strength to
Speaker 2: stand up for women that do. So what ends up
Speaker 2: happening is they tend to be in a cycle of
Speaker 2: attracting that unfortunately, so they're usually selecting women with a
Speaker 2: lot of trauma and a lot of issues and a
Speaker 2: lot of unhealed like behavior. And then when they see
Speaker 2: that unhealed behavior, they don't know how to set that boundary,
Speaker 2: and they usually forgive cheating. I think one thing that
Speaker 2: is underspoken about is men forgive for female cheating far
Speaker 2: more than we realize. I would say majority of men
Speaker 2: forgive it, but they just don't talk about it. The
Speaker 2: problem is the more you forgive it. There's something about
Speaker 2: women that to lose a bit of respect when a
Speaker 2: man is super forgiving.
Speaker 3: I know that sounds terrible.
Speaker 2: It's not that we want someone toxic, but we want
Speaker 2: somebody that has some boundaries. And when we learn that
Speaker 2: he has zero, she might at first be really grateful. Yeah,
Speaker 2: at first, she might thank you for forgiving me whatever
Speaker 2: it is. But later on, what he hasn't understood is
Speaker 2: for her to actually cheat. And something's missing. Those three
Speaker 2: a's they haven't been addressed. Yeah, either the attraction, admiration
Speaker 2: or the adoration. Something's been missing. And usually when you
Speaker 2: forgive too many misdemeanors, the admiration for the man starts
Speaker 2: to go down, and therefore there's an inevitable end. I
Speaker 2: could be wrong, but and my experience, I've always seen
Speaker 2: that men that forgive cheating they end up getting cheated
Speaker 2: and again by the woman that they forgive, and in
Speaker 2: the future they tend to find it again and again.
Speaker 1: And women, how is it?
Speaker 3: It's slightly different.
Speaker 2: It's like the chances of him cheating again do go up,
Speaker 2: but usually I do find if the intimacy is consistent,
Speaker 2: they tend to be relatively faithful. Is the intimacy drops,
Speaker 2: the chances of infidelity to increases. And when women realize that, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe we didn't have so much intimacy, she's not as angry.
Speaker 2: It's only when she realized she did do her job
Speaker 2: and he still did it, then she gets furious and
Speaker 2: then she finds it really difficult to forgive. So it
Speaker 2: depends more on the intimacy than the actual respect when
Speaker 2: men cheat.
Speaker 1: I want to shift to talking about the female client. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the one who says I want a man to commit
Speaker 1: but he's not. Yeah. I think that's super common. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think people are feeling like, hey, we're thirty, we're
Speaker 1: mid thirties, we're forty. Why does he not want to commit?
Speaker 2: Well, first of we unfortunately there's a lot of men
Speaker 2: that are raised in homes with divorce nowadays. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: what happens is they see a divorce in their family,
Speaker 2: and whenever you're raised with a divorceity, he either really
Speaker 2: really cherished commitment and just never want to get a
Speaker 2: divorce and want to stay with one person forever. But
Speaker 2: the more common response, particularly for men, is to avoid
Speaker 2: intimacy and emotional intimacy as much as possible. You just
Speaker 2: don't want to get too vulnerable. So we're dealing with
Speaker 2: the men, a market of men that have witnessed divars
Speaker 2: and a little bit anxious of getting committing. If you
Speaker 2: are a man that has commitment issues, if you're trying
Speaker 2: to work out, because a lot of men think that, oh,
Speaker 2: it's not commitment issues. I don't have commitment, it's just
Speaker 2: she's like this and she's too needy, or she's They
Speaker 2: try and blame the woman. If it was truly something
Speaker 2: wrong with the woman, then why are you with her?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I always ask him why you're with her? Why don't
Speaker 3: you just leave her?
Speaker 2: And let her find somebody who's going to commit, so
Speaker 2: then they realize, actually there's nothing wrong with her.
Speaker 3: There must be something in them.
Speaker 2: If you suffer from commitment issues, the best thing to
Speaker 2: do is make a as a man, try and be
Speaker 2: a bit logical.
Speaker 3: Make a risk assessment. What are the worst things that
Speaker 3: can happen if I commit to this woman? How bad
Speaker 3: can it be?
Speaker 2: If it's like, oh, she's really toxic, she's really abusive,
Speaker 2: she's going to cheat on me, Fine, no problem, then
Speaker 2: maybe just exit. But if you find that the risks
Speaker 2: are quite low and the behaviors are quite good, then
Speaker 2: you don't lose anything from committing. Nothing is going to
Speaker 2: actually happen. Whatever your fear is is irrational. So try
Speaker 2: to work out the risks of that relationship. If there's
Speaker 2: not too many risks, try and just commit. Because only
Speaker 2: through commitment you'll realize if you're compatible. Without commitment, you
Speaker 2: can't actually get to compatibility. And the reason being is
Speaker 2: because when we're not committed, we dilute the attachment. We're
Speaker 2: kind of talking to this person here, we're going there,
Speaker 2: we're not truly committed. The moment you commit, you realize
Speaker 2: if you're right or wrong for each other, and then
Speaker 2: it speeds up your own time. You're not wasting your
Speaker 2: own time with the wrong person. So commitment is actually
Speaker 2: very useful for both parties to realize where it's going.
Speaker 1: And what about for the woman who's waiting for him
Speaker 1: to commit, She's tried to have the conversation with him.
Speaker 1: He's not opening up, he can't really reflect on this
Speaker 1: idea that he wants to commit. What does she do?
Speaker 2: I would say, like in my experience of women who
Speaker 2: have had to push their partner into aultimatums into getting commitment,
Speaker 2: the man you end up being married to is not
Speaker 2: a man you'll actually be happy with. The men that
Speaker 2: are pushed into commitment tend to resent their partners for
Speaker 2: making them a married man. They get angry at small
Speaker 2: signs of intimacy. They get annoyed that they have to
Speaker 2: be loving to you. They get annoyed that they have
Speaker 2: to check in with you every day and tell you
Speaker 2: what time they're coming home and what time dinner is
Speaker 2: going to be ready. They resent the patterns of being married.
Speaker 2: So the more you're pushing man that doesn't want commitment
Speaker 2: into commitment, you're only going to access a relationship that
Speaker 2: won't really make you happy anyway, So when you're forcing
Speaker 2: them and putting the automatives, it's better to ask yourself,
Speaker 2: is this man who he truly is right now? Somebody
Speaker 2: I can actually be married to? If the answer is you,
Speaker 2: he's got potential, maybe if you committed, then try not to.
Speaker 2: But if it's like, yes, he is, then he would
Speaker 2: naturally like commitment. So ask yourself, is it truly is
Speaker 2: someone worth pushing into a commitment, because usually they turn
Speaker 2: into a very negative person when you push them into commitment.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I'm glad you said that about ultimatums. I'm not
Speaker 1: a fan of.
Speaker 3: Why don't you like them?
Speaker 1: Same reason? I think if anyone has to be forced.
Speaker 1: For example, if a guy doesn't want to have a
Speaker 1: wedding and you force him to have a wedding, he'll
Speaker 1: resent it forever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you'll make you miserable.
Speaker 1: That's just one day. That's one So let alone like
Speaker 1: having a marriage and being in a marriage and all
Speaker 1: the rest of it. I just think that you can't
Speaker 1: for if you have to force people into love and commitment, yeah,
Speaker 1: then it's not love and commitment. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And are you sure you love them, because if you
Speaker 2: have to force them to become a person they're not
Speaker 2: in order to please you. Are you sure you love
Speaker 2: the real them? Because every time I meet a woman
Speaker 2: who's suffering in a marriage, I ask him did he
Speaker 2: want to get married because the things you are? Because
Speaker 2: usually a lot of these women are not asking for
Speaker 2: a lot. They'll say I just asked him to spend
Speaker 2: some time with me after work, or I just asked
Speaker 2: that maybe we can get a kiss. When he walks
Speaker 2: in and he makes it out like it's such a
Speaker 2: big degre, He's like, leave you alone. He gets so aggressive
Speaker 2: about it. And then I asked him did you push
Speaker 2: him to get married? And she's like, yeah, well I
Speaker 2: sold him. I'm turning thirty four this year. If you
Speaker 2: don't marry me, I'm gone. And you know, he got
Speaker 2: nervous and did it. But unfortunately, those ultimatums just bring
Speaker 2: out the resentment in the man or the woman all
Speaker 2: the other way around. It brings out their resentment and
Speaker 2: they're mean to you. And are you sure you want
Speaker 2: to marry somebody who's going to be mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Because the opposite of commitment is actually comfort. The
Speaker 1: point is they're comfortable and that's what they want.
Speaker 3: That's what they want.
Speaker 1: And so when you're forcing commitment, you're basically saying I
Speaker 1: want you to be uncomfortable, and they don't want it,
Speaker 1: and they don't want it, and they do it and
Speaker 1: then they're uncomfortable and then blame then and then you
Speaker 1: get the blame.
Speaker 2: And they're truly uncomfortable. Just simple things. I'll have clients,
Speaker 2: so it's just a simple thing, just going to bed.
Speaker 2: At the same time, he doesn't want to do it.
Speaker 2: He want to be like, I don't want to go
Speaker 2: at the time I want to go. So the acts
Speaker 2: of marriage, do the behaviors of marriage feel uncomfortable to
Speaker 2: that man? If they do, then you're going to create
Speaker 2: a husband that you actually don't aren't happy with, and
Speaker 2: you're going to suffer.
Speaker 1: Let's take a short break to hear from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive
Speaker 1: back in. Can you save a bad relationship?
Speaker 2: Yes, you can save a bad relationship, but it's difficult
Speaker 2: if both people don't want to. The only way you
Speaker 2: can save a bad relationship is if both people truly
Speaker 2: want to and they've just misunderstanding each other. The relationships
Speaker 2: that are difficult to save is when one other person
Speaker 2: is far more attached than the other. When one person
Speaker 2: is really wanting the relationship to work, and the other
Speaker 2: person is simply not attracted, not invested, and not committed,
Speaker 2: then what ends up happening is the only way it
Speaker 2: can be saved is the beggar in the relationship demands
Speaker 2: less and less and less, And that's usually the dynamic.
Speaker 2: When one person wants it more than the other, you
Speaker 2: get a beggar in the relationship. And just like beggars
Speaker 2: on the street, when they ask for a bit, you'll
Speaker 2: give them a bit, but when they ask for a lot,
Speaker 2: you're like, go away, you're a beggar, Like I'll give
Speaker 2: you bare minimum. That's how couples start to treat the
Speaker 2: person who begs to be with them. So when you
Speaker 2: enter that dynamic, it's very difficult to fix. But when
Speaker 2: you enter a dynare we don't know why we keep
Speaker 2: butting heads. We love each other, I don't know why
Speaker 2: it's not working. Then it's probably just something wrong in
Speaker 2: understanding each other's core needs, and it's very easy to
Speaker 2: fix those people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's natural for relationships to go through
Speaker 1: ups and downs. It's pretty remarkable if a relationship is
Speaker 1: always hard because work comes out. I think having children
Speaker 1: is a huge one for people to stay connected during
Speaker 1: that time. Travel, There's a million things that are going
Speaker 1: to happen, and all of it comes down to am
Speaker 1: I communicating with that person and are they communicating with me?
Speaker 1: And I think we just haven't been trained to say, hey,
Speaker 1: when you're going through a change, Yeah, tell your partner
Speaker 1: and practice it when the changes are small, like, hey,
Speaker 1: for the next three days, I've got a busy work period.
Speaker 1: Hey for the next week, I've got a big presentation
Speaker 1: of work I'm preparing for, or like talk about those
Speaker 1: tiny things. Yeah, so that when you have big things
Speaker 1: like having kids or travel or parent issues, you're not
Speaker 1: as scared.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not so bad.
Speaker 2: But then I do find what relationships happen In relationships,
Speaker 2: there's relationships that have pains, which are ups and downs.
Speaker 2: Maybe the miscarriage, maybe things go wrong busy with work.
Speaker 2: And there's relationships that are suffering, which is simply a
Speaker 2: consequences of poor decisions when you've chosen the wrong person.
Speaker 2: Pains will happen in every marriage. Every marriage will have
Speaker 2: ups and downs, financial issues. Babies will come pay, but
Speaker 2: babies will go God forbid, parents get sick. Those are
Speaker 2: pains in marriages. These are to be expected and it
Speaker 2: can cause rough periods. Suffering is when even without those
Speaker 2: there are emotional consequences of just choosing the wrong partner
Speaker 2: and daily, daily things, small things become big fights. You
Speaker 2: just want to hold hands, They get angry at that,
Speaker 2: You just want to spend more time.
Speaker 3: They get angry at that. Your life starts to feel
Speaker 3: like suffering.
Speaker 2: And when it's more suffering than it is pain, then
Speaker 2: it's a bit harder to fix those marriages.
Speaker 1: I do think picking is such a big part of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so hard when going back to your three a's
Speaker 1: and your three l's. Yeah, if someone's been with someone
Speaker 1: for ten years now and the attractions faded naturally to
Speaker 1: some degree, they kind of admire them, and they kind
Speaker 1: of get adoration to some degree, and you already have
Speaker 1: kids together, you're not going to necessarily get divorced.
Speaker 2: No, but then that's fine. That's actually not so end
Speaker 2: of the world, as long as it's not so toxic.
Speaker 2: If you've got to a stage where it's kind of okay,
Speaker 2: it's not so bad. I think in this day and age,
Speaker 2: that's a win.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I know it sounds terrible and it sounds like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're just floating by, But I think as long as
Speaker 2: you're avoiding suffering and you're not a toxic in if
Speaker 2: you're after ten years, you're kind of attracted, kind of admires,
Speaker 2: some adoration, but it's not unstable.
Speaker 3: I actually think that's a win.
Speaker 2: I know that sounds terrible, but I just think that's
Speaker 2: not a bad I wouldn't be terrified if I had that.
Speaker 2: It's only when you never had those to begin with,
Speaker 2: and then they just gets exaggerated, exaggerated, exaggerated, it usually
Speaker 2: turns into suffering.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So unless it's toxic abuse exploited.
Speaker 2: To I think if you don't have it so bad
Speaker 2: and you don't have any of the deal breakers, I
Speaker 2: think what happens is people focus so much on like
Speaker 2: having the highs in a relationship. I just think, as
Speaker 2: long as you don't have deep lows, even if it's
Speaker 2: not like poems and you don't have these holidays and
Speaker 2: you don't have these great experiences, but you don't have
Speaker 2: any of those toxic lows. Having that sense of peace
Speaker 2: is actually okay, I actually think that's a win. I
Speaker 2: think it's toxic to assume that you should always be
Speaker 2: having those highs. I think actually just seek that piece,
Speaker 2: and it's as long as they don't have deal breakers,
Speaker 2: the relationship will be Maybe it won't be the most exciting,
Speaker 2: but as long as it's not got those deal breakers,
Speaker 2: you'll actually have relatively peaceful marriage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting you just said both are toxic. Always
Speaker 1: wanting to be on the highest toxic and naturally someone
Speaker 1: who treats you low as toxic. Yeah, and so both
Speaker 1: of them can be toxic. So of them as opposed
Speaker 1: to accepting that piece is piece is a great place
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 3: It's the goal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the end goal is that peaceful state where it's
Speaker 2: not too high not too low. The highs and lows
Speaker 2: comes because the circumstance isn't but not because our day
Speaker 2: to day interactions are so overstimulating or understimulating.
Speaker 3: It doesn't come from day to day. It comes from
Speaker 3: experiences or events in our marriage.
Speaker 1: Sadia, what's the worst thing to say to someone who's
Speaker 1: just gone through a breakup?
Speaker 2: The worst thing that you can say to somebody who's
Speaker 2: just gone through a breakup. Is that, Well, you knew
Speaker 2: he was like that anyway, so what's the problem? I know,
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes we do know the person was already
Speaker 2: like that, we know, but right now, dwelling on that
Speaker 2: person is probably the least important part of the healing
Speaker 2: process to get over our heartbreak. It's not so much
Speaker 2: that we have to forget the person that we're heartbroken about,
Speaker 2: but we just have to try and rediscover ourselves. And
Speaker 2: the best way to rediscover ourselves is not by focusing
Speaker 2: on the person, focusing on what he did wrong, how
Speaker 2: terrible he is. It's more just finding out what your
Speaker 2: patterns are, what your selection was, and then how you
Speaker 2: can improve your life so much so that the feelings
Speaker 2: for him become they disappear. But dwelling on him and
Speaker 2: focusing on him and all his problems, I think that
Speaker 2: will just keep you invested in relationship and make it
Speaker 2: harder for you to heal that heartbreak.
Speaker 1: What about when you thought you were going to spend
Speaker 1: the rest of your life with someone and they left you,
Speaker 1: They moved on, They didn't see it the same way,
Speaker 1: but you were convinced after a few years that this
Speaker 1: was going to be your person and you break up.
Speaker 1: What actually helps, I.
Speaker 2: Think the only thing that helps is just remembering that
Speaker 2: everything you wanted with this person, whether that vision was
Speaker 2: getting married, whether it was to have kids, where it
Speaker 2: was to go on holidays, that vision is still attainable
Speaker 2: for you. You can still access that entire vision you
Speaker 2: had with them with somebody new, and if you feel
Speaker 2: like you really loved that person, you probably just loved
Speaker 2: certain traits that they had.
Speaker 3: Those traits that he has.
Speaker 2: Are available in other men that will actually still make
Speaker 2: your vision come true. And hopefully the new person will
Speaker 2: not have the traits that cause the relationship to break down.
Speaker 2: So remember it's not about the person. This is the
Speaker 2: way people get stuck in heartbreak. They think that their life, happiness,
Speaker 2: and the relationship and their end goal in life is
Speaker 2: in the hands of that particular person in that relationship.
Speaker 2: That end goal is something that they can still attain
Speaker 2: and achieve by themselves if they just remember that, they
Speaker 2: can still achieve it with somebody else, or they can
Speaker 2: achieve it by themselves, they can achieve through friends. That
Speaker 2: goal is more important than the person, and your vision
Speaker 2: is far more important than the relationship. So as long
Speaker 2: as you keep your vision in mind and remember that
Speaker 2: there's other people that can help you attain that vision.
Speaker 2: You will let go of that ego that's attached to
Speaker 2: that particular person that that just broke your heart. And
Speaker 2: I know this sounds hard to do, but when you
Speaker 2: find out that somebody's hurt you and they've moved on
Speaker 2: and they've got a relationship, we can't be hurt and
Speaker 2: happy for somebody at the same time. If you want
Speaker 2: to remove your hurt for people, you almost have to
Speaker 2: try and be happy for them, even if they don't
Speaker 2: deserve it. You don't do it for them, You do
Speaker 2: it for your own sake. So you can suppress that
Speaker 2: feeling of her and just be like, he treated me terribly,
Speaker 2: But I would never want somebody else to go through that.
Speaker 2: So I hope he has a happy relationship. I hope
Speaker 2: he treats her way better than he treated me, And
Speaker 2: then hopefully you'll attract that positive energy back into your
Speaker 2: own life.
Speaker 1: How do we get closure when the person doesn't give
Speaker 1: it to us.
Speaker 2: We can get it through their actions, not their words.
Speaker 2: So if for example, I really love this person and
Speaker 2: they just left me out of nowhere and they gave
Speaker 2: me no explanation. Sometimes the closure is in their behavior.
Speaker 2: The fact that they could let me go and leave
Speaker 2: me hanging in that moment is all the closure I need.
Speaker 2: That maybe they didn't see me as important as I
Speaker 2: saw them, Maybe they found someone else, whatever it is,
Speaker 2: Their closure comes in their behavior, not just their words.
Speaker 2: Whatever they were going to say to you probably wasn't
Speaker 2: true anyway. They're probably just trying to make you feel
Speaker 2: better or trying to hide what the real reasons is.
Speaker 2: Their words are not so important, their actions are. And
Speaker 2: we can always find closure in people's actions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and often their actions are so painful. Yes, take
Speaker 1: up a gear of a text. They don't want to talk.
Speaker 2: To you, And as hard as it is, it's usually
Speaker 2: our ego that seeks another conversation with them. If you
Speaker 2: really look at their behavior, your soul will know they're
Speaker 2: bad forew So try and pay attention to your soul
Speaker 2: knows if someone's good or bad for you. Our ego
Speaker 2: will just want the last word. They just want them
Speaker 2: to come calling back to us, so we can say, oh,
Speaker 2: we can reject them, or we can have our last word.
Speaker 2: But try and remember that that's just your ego speaking
Speaker 2: your soul knows that this proper person probably wasn't right
Speaker 2: for you. If they were right for you, wouldn't be
Speaker 2: suffering today. So try and let go of that need
Speaker 2: for validation and that need for conversation and replace it
Speaker 2: with their behavior.
Speaker 3: Spoke volumes.
Speaker 1: That difference between the soul and ego is so powerful.
Speaker 1: The hard part is most of us are living through
Speaker 1: our ego daily and not our soul. So to suddenly
Speaker 1: flip into salt living not ego living in a breakup,
Speaker 1: it's extremely hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because your ego is what looks right and your
Speaker 2: soul is what actually is right, and we always want
Speaker 2: to look right. We want to be the one that
Speaker 2: says I don't want to be with them, or we
Speaker 2: want to be the one that broke up with them.
Speaker 2: But that's just a temporary high of being the one
Speaker 2: that had the final say or being the one that
Speaker 2: got to say this. These are temporary highs. The long
Speaker 2: term high comes from not needing those conversations. It's almost
Speaker 2: like an emotional kind of neutrality towards that person, and
Speaker 2: the quicker you can get there, the quicker you actually heal,
Speaker 2: so the less you can pay attention to your ego,
Speaker 2: the closer you'll get to healing.
Speaker 1: Well, would you encourage people to think about that through
Speaker 1: steps and stages?
Speaker 2: I think the ego When it comes to your soul
Speaker 2: and ego, the key difference is ego is what makes
Speaker 2: you look good in front of people. Soul is actually
Speaker 2: what makes you feel right. So it might make you
Speaker 2: look better or to him, if you start posting pictures
Speaker 2: of you with another man or showing memes, it might
Speaker 2: make it, you know, get a stab at them, but
Speaker 2: do you actually feel any better when you do that.
Speaker 2: The ego might make you say, look, go move on
Speaker 2: to another guy, Go text your ex, go be with
Speaker 2: another person, make him jealous, but your soul will No,
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel right. So the in and voice that
Speaker 2: you have like does this actually feel right? And how
Speaker 2: you can assess this? You ask yourself if I didn't
Speaker 2: meet this person, like say with my ex, I just
Speaker 2: broke up with my husband and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: if I didn't meet this person, ever, would I be
Speaker 2: going on this date with this random guy or would
Speaker 2: I be actually sitting at home and watching TV with
Speaker 2: my friends. If the answer is I would still be
Speaker 2: going on the date with the guy. The chance that
Speaker 2: it's not your ego, You're probably just doing it because
Speaker 2: that's what you want to do. But if it's like
Speaker 2: I'm only going to the club because I know he's
Speaker 2: going to be there now I want to hurt him,
Speaker 2: or I'm only going to go text this other guy
Speaker 2: because i know it will hurt him. If you're allowing
Speaker 2: that person to dictate your feelings and what you do,
Speaker 2: then it's probably your ego speaking to yourself. Act like
Speaker 2: that person doesn't exist, and ask yourself, what do you
Speaker 2: want to do with yourself? And if the answer is
Speaker 2: I just want to heal, I just want to cry,
Speaker 2: I just want to feel good, like I want a
Speaker 2: couple of days to myself, then do that rather than
Speaker 2: just trying to play that game and seeing who looks
Speaker 2: better and trying to win, because there's no winner when
Speaker 2: you follow your ego.
Speaker 1: I was really happy that we started with the two
Speaker 1: core issues you go through with your clients, because I
Speaker 1: think they're even if it's not women cheating on men,
Speaker 1: it's mentioning on women, it's infidelity, and then this idea
Speaker 1: of commitment, which I think are two of the biggest
Speaker 1: things that everyone's struggling with and then at the same
Speaker 1: time talking about relationships at the top end of attracting
Speaker 1: the three a's the three l's, it's a.
Speaker 2: Bit a paradox that the women that want commitment and
Speaker 2: the men that are committed they're not finding each other.
Speaker 2: There's the men that are getting treated badly in relationships
Speaker 2: and the women that are getting treated badly, and they
Speaker 2: seem to not seem to be attracting each other unfortunately,
Speaker 2: which is a shame, because I think there's something about
Speaker 2: being too nice as a person, both women and men.
Speaker 2: They don't attract each other because I don't feel useful
Speaker 2: when we're with somebody else who's equally as nice as them.
Speaker 2: They almost feel better when they're with somebody a bit
Speaker 2: tougher and stronger, so they can, you know, feel like
Speaker 2: the nice person in that relationship. If they simply meet
Speaker 2: each other, it would be a great resolution to this
Speaker 2: problem that we're facing and modern dating at the moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the big part of it is also
Speaker 1: healing and retraining our own desires, because not everything you
Speaker 1: want is good for you, and sadly, the things that
Speaker 1: are good for you don't want them, I know, and
Speaker 1: so the sad part is you're attracted to the things
Speaker 1: that are bad for you.
Speaker 2: Just like with food, just like with everything in life. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: we were attracted to things without a bad few. But
Speaker 2: the moment you heal your self esteem, what happened is
Speaker 2: you'll have a natural distaste towards things that are bad
Speaker 2: for you, people who don't love you, people who don't
Speaker 2: treat you right. How you know your self esteeming is
Speaker 2: improving is at the moment those people start treating you badly,
Speaker 2: you lose attraction to them. And the moment people treat
Speaker 2: you well, you increase your attraction to them, And that
Speaker 2: is a real signal. And I know sometimes you can
Speaker 2: get love bombed and the person is just so so
Speaker 2: nice to you, and then you're attracted to that. But
Speaker 2: it's that steady, healthy pace of people treating you nicely
Speaker 2: that you are attracted to, which you'll help heal your
Speaker 2: self esteem.
Speaker 1: Sadia, You've been amazing. We end every On Purpose episode
Speaker 1: with a final five. These have to be answered in
Speaker 1: one word, one sentence, so Sady, you can't. These are
Speaker 1: your final five. Question number one, what is the best
Speaker 1: relationship advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 3: Pick piece over pleasure?
Speaker 2: Always to somebody who will give you more peace than
Speaker 2: pleasure if you want a long lasting relationship.
Speaker 1: Question number two, what is the worst relationship advice you've
Speaker 1: ever heard or received?
Speaker 2: You are somebody's dream girl, or don't set up a
Speaker 2: less I think anything that inflates your vision of what
Speaker 2: a relationship looks like is going to make it difficult
Speaker 2: for you to find the right person.
Speaker 1: Great answer. Question number three. What's something that you think
Speaker 1: everyone believes to be true about love but it's actually
Speaker 1: not true?
Speaker 2: It should be unconditional. I don't believe that it should
Speaker 2: be true. You definitely need conditions for your love, otherwise
Speaker 2: you will attract people who abuse your kindness.
Speaker 1: That's a great answer. Question number four, what is something
Speaker 1: you used to believe was true about love but recently
Speaker 1: you've disconnected with that.
Speaker 2: Just being with somebody who just loves you so so
Speaker 2: much is all you need when really, without you being
Speaker 2: attracted to that person, it will feel like neediness.
Speaker 1: Fift and final question. If you could create one law
Speaker 1: that everyone in the world had to follow, what would
Speaker 1: it be?
Speaker 2: You treat people behind their back as you do in
Speaker 2: front of them, So how you behave behind people's back
Speaker 2: is exactly how you are in front of their face.
Speaker 2: And if you want to practice that in your relationships,
Speaker 2: what happens is you don't need your partner to regulate
Speaker 2: you in any way, shape or form. You act like
Speaker 2: the same person with or without their monitoring. And if
Speaker 2: you do that in life, I think you'll probably have
Speaker 2: more authentic relationships.
Speaker 1: So you can't thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: This is, without a doubt, my favorite relationship episode we've
Speaker 1: ever done. I don't believe I honestly have never gone
Speaker 1: that deep into the nuances of why and who and
Speaker 1: where and just I love the way you think about it.
Speaker 1: I really really appreciate it. And I want everyone whos
Speaker 1: listen and watching to tag me in Sadia on Instagram,
Speaker 1: on TikTok with the moments that resonated with you, that
Speaker 1: connected with you, that things you're going to stop doing
Speaker 1: from now on, things you're going to start doing, signs
Speaker 1: you're watching out for, because I want to see what
Speaker 1: you're putting into practice. If you don't follow Saudia across
Speaker 1: social media already, make sure you go and subscribe. I
Speaker 1: hope that it saves you from wasting time, money, and
Speaker 1: energy on the wrong person. And I really really hope
Speaker 1: that it helps you connect with true, meaningful, lasting love. Sadia,
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to you again.
Speaker 2: You have no idea how much you have honored me today.
Speaker 2: So thank you so so much for your time. I
Speaker 2: cannot believe I get to speak to you.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with
Speaker 1: Dr Gabor Matte on understanding your trauma and how to
Speaker 1: heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.
Speaker 1: Everything in nature goes only where it's vulnerable. So treee
Speaker 1: doesn't go over it's harden taked as that it goes
Speaker 1: with it, soft and green and vulnerable.