1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: never told you. Today we are once again joined by 3 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: my good friend Samantha. Hello, Samantha, thank you. Yep you 4 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: are and you will be back for this, this series 5 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: that we're doing also forever sitting in the corner staring 6 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: at everyone. Yes, doing the grudge. Yeah, I'm not doing um. Yeah. 7 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: This is the second in our series examining trauma and 8 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: sexual assault in the air of me too. And you 9 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: are a great person to bring in for this because 10 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: you do. You have a history and social work. That 11 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: is my career thus far. That's hard thus far. I'm 12 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: gonna put that as a dot dot dot stricken there. 13 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: You know. I love including those because it just adds 14 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: a slayer of mystery and entry. What is she going 15 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: to do next? Dot dot dot? I'm going to stay 16 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: at home and just eat, eat and watch TV. Can 17 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: someone pay me to do that? I think there is Yeah, 18 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: I think you can get paid for that. I'm sure 19 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: it's very competitive. We're going to research this in a bit. 20 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeahediate. Next thing we're doing immediately have goals, um, 21 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: so quick trigger warning. We are talking about grooming and 22 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: what what exactly that entails including specific methods and purposes. Um, 23 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 1: and just to kind of prep everyone, to prime everyone. 24 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: The general definition of grooming is the act of preparing 25 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: or training someone for particular purpose or activity, and oftentimes 26 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: it involves someone of power, mentoring, training, or intimidating another individual. 27 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: But in this conversation, we're mostly gonna be talking about 28 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: it in terms of abuse and specifically trigger warnings. UM, 29 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about to use, sexual salt, molestation 30 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: and grooming, sexual grooming, sexual exportation, human trafficking, b reality, pedophilia. 31 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: Most of these were not going to go in depth on. 32 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: But if it's something that is triggering are difficult for you, 33 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: please put your own health and well being first. And 34 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: this is something that several of you have written in 35 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: about and that's been in the news quite a lot 36 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: lately because as we record this, the r Kelly thing, 37 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: the documentary is really big in the news cycle and 38 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: grooming is a part of that conversation. Hashtag mute r Kelly. 39 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: Hashtag mute r Kelly. Mm hmm. If we look at 40 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: this whole picture of abuse or of choosing or preparing 41 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: a victim, green ng is often the first step or 42 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: a quick second step. I suppose a study that came 43 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: out recently found most people couldn't identify signs of grooming. 44 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: So hopefully this episode that we're having can make us 45 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: all a little more vigilant and aware. I know I 46 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: learned a lot from researching this one, you know, any 47 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: I was going to add to that that it is 48 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: often times hard to see in a victim, which is 49 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: why a lot of the sites you'll see and a 50 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: lot of the statistics is to say to um, focus 51 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: on the perpetrator. You'll see their actions, including the online perpetrators. 52 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: There are specifics to that which we won't necessarily go into, 53 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: but that is something to think on too. Yeah, So 54 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: let's start, as I like to do, with a definition. 55 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: What is grooming? Author and counselor Eric Marlowe Garrison defines 56 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: it like this, Grooming is the slow, methodical, and intentional 57 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: process of manipulating a person to a point where they 58 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: can be victimized. After the perpetrators find their targets, they 59 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: gain trust and move in from there. The U. S. 60 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: Department of Justice, Office of Sex Offenders Sentencing defines it 61 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: as grooming is a method used by offenders that involves 62 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: building trust with a child and the adults around a 63 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: child in an effort to gain access to and time 64 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: alone with him or her. In extreme cases, offenders may 65 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: use threats and physical force to sexually assault or abuse 66 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: a child. More common, though, are subtle approaches designed to 67 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: build relationships with families. The offender may assume a caring role, 68 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 1: befriend the child, or even exploit their position of trust 69 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: and authority to groom the child and or the child's family. 70 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: These individuals intentionally build relationships with the adults around a 71 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: child or seek out a child who is less supervised 72 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: by adults in their lives. This increases the likelihood that 73 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: the offender's time with a child is welcomed and encouraged. 74 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: So we are talking a lot about children and grooming 75 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,679 Speaker 1: of children in this episode, but it can happen to anyone, right, Um, 76 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: and I think we're gonna talk a little more. But 77 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: you and I discussed the fact that when it comes 78 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: to domestic violence, that is a type of grooming as well, 79 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: because oftentimes they will seek women who have already been 80 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: through specific situations traumas in their life, maybe have grown 81 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: up with domestic violence in their lives, and then they 82 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: kind of hone in on these women and specifically picked 83 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: them because they are easier victims. So obviously that's has 84 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: a lot to do with sexual abuse, and it is 85 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: often the precursor to the crime of sexual abuse. But 86 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: sexual grooming is a standalone crime in itself, but it 87 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: is hard to prove and you'll see why that is 88 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: in a minute. So as we're talking about the fact 89 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: that yes, it can be specifically to sexual abuse of children, 90 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: we can talk about all the facts about domestic violence, 91 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: as I had previously said. But also if you look 92 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: at gangs and cults, they kind of do the same thing. Um, 93 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: they look for individual rules who lack family and therefore 94 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,239 Speaker 1: needs something to hold onto, and they groom these people 95 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: into mentoring and oftentimes involved a way. So if you 96 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: look at gang members and you look at the fact 97 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: that a lot of teenagers have been recruited for lack 98 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: of better terms, um, they're looking for father figure family figures, 99 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: and this is where they go to seek it. And 100 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: on top of that, they are being taught how to 101 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: make money or how to do things without going the 102 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: herd route as in like education or building family trust, 103 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: counseling and all of that it kind of pulls away 104 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: from that and they think this is what they want, 105 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: same thing as pedophiles. It's not just a pedophilic act, 106 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: but something done out of dominance. And honestly, while we're 107 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: talking about pedophiles, let's be specific as the differences of 108 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: pedophiles and child molesters, because I think that's not talked 109 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: about enough. Pedophiles can be sexually arousked by previous bestent 110 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: children and oftentimes form emotional attachments to their victims. If 111 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: you look at Nambula as an example. They really feel 112 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: like this is another white form of sexuality, that having 113 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: a relationship from a young boy with an older man 114 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: should not be stopped if it's gentle, and they truly 115 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: believe that this is a relationship that people are not 116 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: willing to see, which when we talk about the fact 117 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: that children do not have the option to consent because 118 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: they are not able to say no and understand why 119 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: they can say no, which is also an important part 120 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: about having parents teach their children it's okay to not 121 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: to be touched, not to be tickled, and say I 122 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: don't want to hug you, which is very important and 123 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: we talked about more and more as of late, and 124 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: I know not a lot of women and a lot 125 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: of parents have become very aware of this and started 126 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: to teach their children these things. But Nambla has this 127 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: whole fixation that I'm in love, he's in love with me, 128 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: and I can take care of them, which is the 129 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: sturfing on its own as where child molesters and abusers 130 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: use child for sexual stimulation and could be more about 131 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: opportunity than need. So when I say that, I often 132 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: see Pierre and Pierre victim. So you don't need crimes 133 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: where youth will actually sexual abuse another youth who may 134 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: be similar to their age, and not because they prefer 135 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: that child, but because it was an opportunity, and they're 136 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: still considered child molester and a sex offender. Al on 137 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: top of that, m HM, and this conversation, um, and 138 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this a little bit more. 139 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: But it also we can bring in exploitation and trafficking 140 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: in this. In this whole thing, the perpetrator of grooming 141 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: can be just about anyone from retired special Agent with 142 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit, Kenneth the Landing quote, Pedophiles 143 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: span the full spectrum from Saints to monsters. In spite 144 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: of this fact, over and over again, pedophiles are not recognized, investigated, charge, convicted, 145 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: or sent to prison simply because they are nice guys. 146 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 1: As in fact, my experiences in working with sex offenders, 147 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: it's common to see a sex offender being the most 148 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: cooperative and workable group of a offenders. They majority of 149 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: these types of offenders are not necessarily violent and often 150 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: very aware of their surroundings and how to stay under 151 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: the radar. You could also say that for female adults 152 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: with younger men or the younger teenage boys, they are 153 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: not volatile, but they use their sexuality as well as 154 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: their dominance and or power to get in control over 155 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: these youths and oftentimes somehow convinced these teenage boys slash 156 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: younger boys that they are not victims, but they are 157 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: the loves of their lives. They're their boyfriends, which is 158 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: a manipulation in itself, and honestly, not to make you paranoid, 159 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: just to give just to give empower you with information. 160 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: I think by now people are aware of all the 161 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: shocking statistics of human trafficking, so I kind of want 162 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: to jump into that and for us in Atlanta, that's 163 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: a really big issue. Atlanta has one of the high 164 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: statistics when it comes to victims and of trafficking, and 165 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: I think that has a lot to do with the 166 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: international airport that we have. We have heart Spilled, so 167 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: a lot of international flights come through there, so people 168 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: are easily accessible or lights are easy accessible wherever um 169 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: as well as our big events, And with that, I 170 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit about cease victims, which 171 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: means commercially sexually exploited children, which you're gonna hear me 172 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: say that acronym a lot, and you probably may have 173 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: already heard it and not realized what it is. But 174 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: what it comes down to is here we're defining children 175 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: or youths under the age of eighteen UM specifically victims, 176 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: about how they're found and how they're picked out, and 177 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk a little more about what exactly that 178 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: looks like the whole human trafficking. I know that's a 179 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: pretty big word and everybody has become very aware of it. 180 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: If we go if we broaden out to grooming. We 181 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: don't have any solid numbers on it because it's something 182 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 1: that is surrounded by shame here, guilts or not realizing 183 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: that a form of abuse is taking place. Numbers we 184 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: do have from two thousand six indicate that one in 185 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: four girls and one in five boys will be sexually 186 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: abused before they turn eighteen. Some estimates put the number 187 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: of child sex offenders as low as five percent. Again, 188 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that isn't reported on very often, 189 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: like it's under reported this crime. So probably numbers are 190 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: higher than what we're saying, and they're already pretty high, 191 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: And that has a lot to do with children don't 192 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: know how to report, they're not taught how to report 193 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: one too, they feel like they're unsafe to try to 194 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: actually report, or they do it way later in time 195 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: in which the statute of limitations are gone, and that 196 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: varies from state to state, which is unfortunate. And a 197 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: lot of times they're discouraged by members that are close 198 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: to them to not report. So all of these things 199 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: have factors into why it is so underreported. And generally, 200 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: grooming starts as friendship that the groomer learns what the 201 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: potential target likes, what they dislike, things that they can 202 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: use later. Social media can play a big part of this. 203 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: The groomer can learn a lot about the person from 204 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: what they post, and they can use that information to 205 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: form a friendship. That's one reason why being careful about 206 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: what we post, especially for younger people, is always, always, 207 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: always recommended. From the stuff you post on social media, 208 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: someone could start a conversation about your interests. They might 209 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: mention someone you know as if they know that person too, 210 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: or in the case of a power disparity in terms 211 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: of maybe a job, a coach or a teacher, or 212 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: a doctor or a priest, because there already is one 213 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: inherent a power dynamic if a minor is involved mentioning 214 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: the power that they have, right. I mean, we can 215 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: just talk about the fact you could lose your job. 216 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: Now if you post something that may not have anything 217 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: to do with your job, you can lose scholarships, you 218 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: can lose anything, in which we try to tell everyone, 219 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: don't be dumb. You will be found out if it's 220 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: on the internet, even once it can be found again. 221 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: I know that that's one of the same things that 222 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: we talk about with sharing your location. That is beyond 223 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: dangerous because oftentimes these offenders are at the level they 224 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: will stop you. I think the recent case Close Jaden 225 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: Close is that her name I don't know. I'm going 226 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: to have to go back and look at this who 227 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: just recently was kidnapped at her after her parents were shot. Oh, 228 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: he stalked her and they had nothing to do with 229 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: social media, but just the level at some so that 230 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: some perpetrators will go to He stalked her from a 231 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: school bus to the home, not knowing who she was, 232 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: not knowing who they were, and was willing to commit 233 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: murder and kidnapping to get to her, which is a 234 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: rude awakening. It happens since therefore things like location tagging 235 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 1: and all that can be very seriously dangerous, which needs 236 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: to be discussed with your youth teenagers. Everyone. Yeah, I've 237 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: always that that scary moment when the al least for me, 238 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 1: it was a little frightening. I've had it happen a 239 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: couple of times. But when the the lift driver it's like, oh, 240 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: do you live here alone? And you're like, oh, um no, 241 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: this is my friend's house. I remember being in high 242 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: school when social media was relatively new, my marching band 243 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: director saying that you should never trust someone who comes 244 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: up to you and says something like, um, I know 245 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: so and so, and they said I should give you 246 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: a ride or something like that, because they could find 247 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: that stuff out from social media. And I remember specifically 248 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: at the time, being kind of thrown by that idea. 249 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: But he, I mean he was right. Yeah. As a nanny, 250 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: I was really overprotective do to having worked as an 251 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: investigator and child abuse and sexual abuse, and would oftentimes 252 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: intervene if anything looks suspicious. And I still think children 253 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: under sixteen should not be on social media. I was 254 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: very upset with my brother and sister when they are 255 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: allowed their teens or not intens eleven twelve year old 256 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: to get on social media and reminding them this is 257 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: not safe. You think you have a control over the phones, 258 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: over the social media, you don't know what's going on. 259 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: You will never catch up to the new ways or 260 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: fads or whatever that is happening that you think you 261 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: can be protective. I know, kick came out K I 262 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: K for a while, and that was one of the 263 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: scariest things to me because it was those photo messages 264 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: that would sent back and I actually had a case 265 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: where a kid sent let's just stay in a decent 266 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: picture to another kid and then it got spread all 267 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: around and we came back and It's like, you know, 268 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: this is a felony, right, This is child most stations, 269 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: this is child porn, distribution of child porn, and they 270 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: didn't understand that because they're all children. But it doesn't 271 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: have anything to do with age the fact that you're 272 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: spreading this. But it's such a scary thing that I 273 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: am overly cautious and oftentimes will make sure that they 274 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: understand this is not as safe as you think. I 275 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: remember I fought with my employer about getting these kids 276 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: phones and they did. They kind of stepped up to 277 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: it because they used the kid version and then another version. 278 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: But then we started talking about PlayStations, how they're easily 279 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: accessible to Internet and oftentimes they use that as an 280 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: outlet for social media. Me. It's a whole scary thing. Yeah, 281 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: it is, And I mean I could do I could 282 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: speak for hours and hours about the harrassment I received 283 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: through a gaming system, but that's a different episode. And 284 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: it sucks. This whole thing sucks because once again the 285 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: onus is on us to prevent someone from doing something terrible, 286 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: and someone who's dedicated the majority of my adult life 287 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: to this. It's taxing and it's never ending. It seems 288 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: like I'm just digging a hole, hoping that I'm kind 289 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: of helping a little bit, and then you turn around, 290 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: there's something new, there's something different, there's something more. And 291 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: another thing to keep in mind. The parents, adults, authority, figures, 292 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: support group, whatever it is of the target are often 293 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: groomed as well to progressively accept escalating levels of seemingly 294 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: innocent physical contact and isolation as normal. UM. And this 295 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: is one of the ways something like Larry Nasa happens, 296 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: which I read in many places like that situation was 297 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: just the perfect thing for grooming um or R Kelly, 298 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: I knew a guy who was really active in the 299 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: homeless transgender teen community, and he was doing something like this, 300 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: and I think he was also a government official. Um, 301 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: he's not anymore. He's in jail and should be as 302 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: he should be. And as I've said before, outside of this, 303 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: I do acting and unsettling amount of times I often 304 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: see a post to alert people that a predator is 305 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: asking for pictures or videos of child actors under the 306 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: guys of an audition or getting a role. It's disturbing 307 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: how often we get a note from our agent, this 308 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: guy is not for real, don't send him any pictures 309 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: of your children. I think the taboo or the stereotype 310 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: was the creepers come around offering you modeling jobs, and 311 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: it turns out it's not really modeling jobs, and whether 312 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: they're trying to just get nude pictures or assault someone 313 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: or do something even more dangerous. That people have started 314 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: to become a little more, a little more aware with hope. 315 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: After all the Lifetime specials that I've seen, Yeah, they're 316 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 1: all dangerous, that's what I figured out, but that that 317 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: this is a way to get to you and the 318 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: kids by promising something bigger, money, power, fame, all of 319 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: those things are Kelly. That's exactly what he did. He 320 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: takes these fifteen sixteen year olds fourteen year old, if 321 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: you're a lee, I guess um and promise I'm gonna 322 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: build you a future. I'm going to make you a star, 323 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: and then starts doing the emotional and physical and mental 324 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: abuse with them in order to train them and subdue 325 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: them into his power. And that's that power dynamic again. 326 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: And we're going to talk more about that after a 327 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor, m HM, 328 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. After this friendship has 329 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: been established, So we were talking about that earlier. Just 330 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: establishing friendship and or some kind of nicety. Uh. The 331 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: target views the grimmer as a friend, a mentor, or 332 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: romantic interest. Their guards down. The groomer might start offering 333 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: gifts or favors, and the goal is to make the 334 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: target feel like they owe the groom or something. They 335 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: usually start small, maybe keeping a promise, but build over time. 336 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: And I have some personal experience that I'm gonna share, 337 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: but don't worry, I'm not going into gorey detail. Um. 338 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: That wouldn't be good for anybody, but for me, I 339 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: have had what I call four periods of sexual abuse 340 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: in my life, and the hallmark and all of them 341 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: the common thread was vulnerability and that power dynamic. They 342 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: all involved authority figures. The first two times it was 343 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: someone my parents trusted and I trusted because I'm a 344 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: kid and they're in our authority role in my life. 345 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: But on the silver lining side of this awful situation, 346 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: they ended. They both ended fairly quickly because I told someone. Um. 347 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: But the first time it was a preschool teacher and 348 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: he had a motorcycle. That's what I remember the most. 349 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: He had a motorcycle, and I wanted to write it, 350 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: and he for like, maybe one day, I'll let you 351 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: write it, but first let's do this and this and this. 352 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: And he also had a gold stars and I wanted 353 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: to be a good girl and I'd get these gold stars. 354 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: I mean, that's exactly something that often happens. They give you, 355 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: they see the person or the victim, and then they 356 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: use exactly what is needed for that individual victim. So 357 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: it's not just an overall blanket. It is tailored to 358 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: each individual victim. And often, like you, you want to 359 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: please someone and you see this. And we could also 360 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: talk about the attachment issues and family life and or 361 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: previous abuse, because oftentimes I've seen children of abuse, as 362 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: you will show, are targeted again. They're the likelihood of 363 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: them being targeted again as a victim goes exponentially higher. 364 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: And I don't know how they know, but they know, 365 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: And I say they isn't the offenders the perpetrators that 366 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: this is someone that you can groom or may have 367 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: already been groomed, and so therefore they can tailor it 368 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: once again in a different manner. Yeah, it's a predator's instinct. 369 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: Um And after this whole situation. My family moved for 370 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: for other reasons too, but in part because of this, 371 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: And I don't blame my parents, but they didn't really 372 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: explain it to me. Um. And again, it's a horrible 373 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: difficult conversation to have with your young child. But all 374 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: I knew was we were moving away from my friends 375 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: because I had said something. And the second time, I 376 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: was still really young, and it was a friend of 377 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: a family, and he definitely played up the whole like 378 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: boys will be boys. Your value is in how desirable 379 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: you are. This is a good thing. Don't be a 380 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: cry baby, don't be so weak. And I felt this 381 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: pressure not to say anything that want to ruin his life. 382 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: And I already felt that I was lesser and that 383 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: I should stay quiet and not rock the boat. And 384 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: I was eight, And both of these men, yeah, they 385 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: knew what to say and how to earn my chest 386 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: and how to keep me from saying anything, right, And 387 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: I was going to add with that. That's part of 388 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: the thing I see and a lot of victims is 389 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: that at the very beginning they're fairly empathetic, and therefore 390 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: they wear the guilt on themselves, which is kind of 391 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: why everything is underreported and as we look at more 392 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: than me too era even for older women, adult women 393 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: who have come gone through the situation, whether it's rape 394 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: or sexual abuse or whatever as an adult, you see 395 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: that same statistics. I don't want to ruin this person's life. 396 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: He's a good man, but he is a good They 397 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: are a good person, but they only did this to me. 398 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: I'm the only victim. It's okay. So so many times 399 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the victims or survivors are willing to 400 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: take on his shame, which is absurd. And part of 401 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: that is also because people don't want to hear it, 402 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: and so therefore it's easier to be quiet and say 403 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: never mind, don't worry about it. Right. That's something I 404 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: still catch myself like speaking in that way, like I 405 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: don't want to ruin his life. He ruined his life. UM. 406 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: The third and longest phase of my abuse. UM. It 407 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: started as a building of trust. Both of my parents 408 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: and my older brother were hospitalized, which was traumatic and itself, 409 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: and I had no idea when they were coming back. 410 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: I was a teenager in a house by myself with 411 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: my little brother, and I was so scared. It was 412 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: in this vulnerable state and these two men knew that, 413 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: and they did say something along the lines of like 414 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: my parents had sent them, and I was like, okay, 415 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: but I they I was really suspicious and uncomfortable, but 416 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: I was grateful that I had some kind of help 417 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: in this situation um and even kind of flattered because 418 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: they would tell me how mature I was or how 419 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: pretty I was for my age. But I had a 420 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: turning point and I realized, like, I really don't like 421 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: these people. I don't want them near my little brother. 422 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: I told them I didn't want them coming around anymore, 423 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: and they became extremely violent enough so that I never 424 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: ever wanted that to happen again. It scared the hell 425 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: out of me, and they threatened me and my little brother. 426 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: That's why the situation lasted so long, because I didn't 427 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: know what to do and obvious so much of my 428 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: life suffered because of it. My friendship suffered, my mental health, 429 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: my physical health. But I felt like I had to 430 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: be the strong one for my brother. And every night 431 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: I just remember laying awake listening because his room was 432 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: next to mine, and I was just not sleep because 433 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: I was so so scared. Right, you were a protector 434 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: and actually any what you experienced is something many of 435 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: the perpetrators use as a grooming tactic as well as 436 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: that they single out one child out of a group 437 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: of peers or even a group of siblings, or they 438 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: specifically target loners for the lack of a better term, 439 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: and we'll use threats or rewards as a way to 440 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 1: maintain their wholes over these victims. And that includes I'm 441 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: gonna hurt your brother, I'm gonna hurt your mother, I'm 442 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: gonna hurt your father, things that they know you are 443 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: worried about. And they're not afraid to use these tactics 444 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: to get what they want because in the end they 445 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: have the power and that's more gratifying than the end 446 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: result of what could happen. And it works because children 447 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: believe adults, and that's part of the problem. We them 448 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: to understand adults. We want them to respect adults. But 449 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: at the same time, how do you differentiate respecting the 450 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: right adult? Yeah, I mean these are difficult. There there 451 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: are questions and they're difficult conversation to have, but we 452 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: do need to be having them. Um. So, when the 453 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: groomer becomes a part of the target's daily life, maybe 454 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: shows up at events that the target is attending alone. 455 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: This this builds that trust, and eventually, when the groomer 456 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: is feeling confident, they'll start asking for these favors back, 457 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: and they usually start as a non sexual favor, and 458 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: then they become progressively more sexual in nature, maybe watching 459 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: pornography together, touching, sending sexual materials. And another hallmark of 460 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: gramming is secrecy. For obvious reasons, the groomer tries to 461 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: keep this relationship under wraps, especially in the early stages, 462 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: and in order to try to ensure silence from their victims, 463 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: they will say something like, don't tell anyone I did 464 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: do this favor because they will be elis and everyone 465 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: will want me to do the same thing for them. 466 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: The key is flattery and to make the target feel special. 467 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: At the same time, the groomer starts to distance the 468 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: target from people in their life that could help them. 469 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: Once the physical aspect of the relationship is established, then 470 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: shame plays a huge role in the silence, along with 471 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: things like force. All these threats, separating the victim from 472 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: their support group makes controlling them easier. Treating the target 473 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: as a co conspirator is also a part of this 474 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: um Yeah one of my abusers is really good at that. 475 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: He would say stuff like everything you are, I made 476 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: you as if I owed him a big favor um, 477 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: and I would willing I would willingly go back to 478 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: him because I didn't know what else to do. But 479 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: I knew not going back to him would make him 480 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: very angry, be a very bad thing for me. And 481 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: this is why I would step in And so they remember. 482 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: Guilt and shame and loneliness are major emotions that offenders 483 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: no can be easily manipulated. They want to use this 484 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: as a tactic to silence you. Guilt and shame we 485 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: have on our own pretty easily. I could list off 486 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: all the exchangeful things I did today. I'm not going 487 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: to because that's gonna be three episodes long, unless you 488 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: guys want to hear it. I'm just playing. But this 489 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: is why as a social worker, we advise guardians and 490 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: parents that they watch out for the physical signs of abuse, 491 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: because you're not going to necessarily know what's happening. These offenders, groomers, 492 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: perpetrators are really good and putting themselves in the middle 493 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: of a situation at the perfect time, and it has 494 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: nothing to do with your weakness. It has nothing to 495 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: do with their weakness. It's just they find the opportunity 496 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: and they take it. And again, like I said before, 497 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: these offenders slash perpetrators, they seem like nice guys or 498 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: nice women, nice people in general. They seem like they're 499 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: coming in to help you. They want to make your 500 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: life better. And this is the tactic that they know 501 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: to use. They can't just come in. There are the 502 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: aggressive ones. Let's talk about that. I realized the name 503 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: is Jamie Close, not Jaden who I was talking about previously, 504 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: which he just came in with his mental health issues 505 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: and just drug her out. That's more unusual, which is 506 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: why we don't hear about that as much. But when 507 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: we do, it's like, oh my gosh, what happened. What 508 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: we don't hear about is the years and years and 509 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: years and years of abuse that they had from the uncle, 510 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: or the years and years and years and abuse of 511 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: the neighbor or the pastor or their coach, you know, 512 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: stuff like that. That's when you start realizing, oh my gosh, 513 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know. And that's also when you start hearing 514 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: he was such a nice guy. I thought he was 515 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: helping us and that's part of the problem in which 516 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: we can't always see what is happening with a child 517 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: until after the fact. So some of the not signs, 518 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: and I know we're gonna go into this a little deeper. 519 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: I know you have a laundry list, awesome, so we 520 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: can take notes. But just to throw that out there, 521 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: some of the signs would include withdrawal and isolation from 522 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: the victim, bed wedding, early sexualization, which is some thing 523 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: that I don't think people realize enough because they think 524 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: it's just funny if they say something ridiculous, But when 525 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: you start realizing what's happening or at least, sexualization is 526 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: a big, big part of it. And you've got to 527 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: figure out where they're learning this from. Because either way, 528 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: because they are so young, they will they may act 529 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: on it in a way that you don't want to 530 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: know about, whether it's with their cousin, whether it's with 531 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: a dog, whether it's with you know, whatever is there 532 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: for their opportunity. So that's something that I always talk about, 533 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: is like you need to see how they're acting out. 534 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: If they're acting out, you need to be concerned and 535 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: start asking why are they acting out? And it may 536 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: be as simple as they watched the wrong show. Um, 537 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: And then we would talk about regression as well, which 538 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: they go back and start more and more childlike maybe 539 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, thumb sucking, start trying more all of those things. 540 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: But any like I said, I know, we're gonna go 541 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: into more of the details, but just to throw that 542 00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: out there once again. And another part that that makes 543 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: it difficult is it it can be hard to separate 544 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: from romance because there is this slow build and it 545 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: can seem innocuous at first. The target and other people 546 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: in the target's life can mistake it as romance, right, 547 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: And this is where I'm going to come back into 548 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: talking about human trafficking slash domestic human trafficking and sea 549 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: sec that commercially sexually exploited children because oftentimes most of 550 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: the targets believe they're going into something on their own 551 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: with their free will, thinking that they're coming into a 552 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: relationship and or a living situation that's benefiting them both. Oftentimes, 553 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: children who are part of the circumstances happen to be 554 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: Kauds who are seeking something better. Like we're talking about 555 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: that whole isolating being alone, bad family situation and honestly 556 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: with the lgbt q I generation is even more prominent 557 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: in that group because they're already feeling isolated, if they're 558 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: being shunned by their family, They're trying to find someone 559 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: to help them to seek out what they need. So 560 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: we're gonna go back and talk about the fact that 561 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: child sex trafficking SLASH, the prostitute prostitution of children, which 562 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: is defined as child sex tourism involving commercial sexual activity, 563 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: the commercial product production I'm so sorry, the commercial production 564 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: of child pornography, and the online transmission of a video 565 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: of which child is engaged in sexual activity in exchange 566 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: for anything of value. And I think I wanted to 567 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: bring this up at this time because what we often 568 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: see is that children who are manipulated with this type 569 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: of situation believe, like we said, that they are in 570 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: a romantic relationship and see this as a normal way 571 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: of living and getting money. I've had to have many 572 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: conversations with a lot of my females. My girl who 573 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: go into a situation will not say that they are victims, 574 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: even though they know that they have had to have 575 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: sex with older men and give the money to their 576 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: boyfriend quote unquote or they get tagged with the name 577 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: of the boyfriend as a way of a marker, or 578 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: they are having to pay back for food or drugs 579 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: that they're giving by using drugs. So oftentimes I don't 580 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: think people see that as a thing. And this is 581 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: why we have this conversation of charging teenage girls or 582 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: teenage boys as prostitutes is problematic because oftentimes what you 583 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: see is there is, for the lack of better terms, 584 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: a pimp, flash, a perpetrator who is pushing this from behind, 585 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: threatening her, telling her she's going to be alone, all 586 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: of these situations because they are being forced to. But 587 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: we don't see that. We just see, and I say we, 588 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: as the government sometimes until recently, saw that as these 589 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: kids are committing a crime, we're going to give them 590 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: a prostitution charge or soliciting charge, which is absurd, as 591 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: in fact that we're talking about that case in Tennessee 592 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: where she finally was given clemency, granting clemency when she 593 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: shot the man who was pimping her out at sixteen. 594 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna lie. I know that what happened 595 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: was great because the governor finally released her or granted that. However, 596 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: he also said she did a heinous crime, but she's 597 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: she's ready to make up for it, and that's I 598 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: have a problem with that. She did a crime, yes, 599 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: but I have a feeling as a person who has 600 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: worked in this field, to her, it was survival and 601 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: should we be punishing her to that level and still 602 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: p using her as a stigma as a murderer when 603 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: she was maybe defending herself or trying to get out 604 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: of the life without losing her life. Yeah. Yeah. One 605 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: warning sign, according to experts, is the potential groomers insistence 606 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: to to meet up beyond what might be considered normal, 607 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: and potentially utilizing threats or guilt to get the person 608 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: to show up. Um, since the groomer has put a 609 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: lot of time and maybe money into grooming, they want 610 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: to check in on their progress in the person. Experts 611 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: also point out that the target usually has some sense 612 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: that something is not quite right, a feeling that isn't 613 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: there in consensual romance, like right, Actually, I know, like 614 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: I said, as us, I've spoken with many girls coming 615 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: out of that situation. They will tell you at what 616 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: point they were like, this is not what I thought. Yeah, 617 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: there is that moment, whether it's their first client and 618 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: or the fit client, or when you hit her, or 619 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: when they know or when she demanded things. There are 620 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: there are moments that they have like I didn't want this. 621 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: I thought I was in love and I thought we 622 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: were in this together, right and well. Another thing is 623 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: that grooming can take place completely online, coercing someone to 624 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: take part in online sexual activities like sending pictures or videos, 625 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: having sexual conversations. Then the groomer might tighten their control 626 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 1: by threatening to send these things to the targets friends 627 00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: and family, and a groomer just they might message one 628 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: children at a time, like just seeing what sticks. And 629 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: this is again that shame factor. I've got something of yours. 630 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: If you don't do this, I'm going to embarrass you 631 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: and out you as a deviant or whatever whatnot. And 632 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: again I do want to mention even for miners, they 633 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: cannot send these sexually explicit pictures because in the law 634 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: you're sending child pornography. Therefore you can be arrested or 635 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: a very sensive amount of time because we know the 636 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: g b I or where we are and FBI see 637 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: this as a heinous crime now and they will come 638 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: at you at full fource right and kind of a 639 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: strange aside, but it kept coming up when I was 640 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: researching this. Um this movie called Show Dogs, which was 641 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: a children's movie that came out earlier in about uh. 642 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: I don't really know much about the Show Dogs scene, 643 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: but um, it's about that, and it actually got recut 644 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: prior to its theatrical relea because of a scene where 645 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: a character was touching the dogs jails and telling him 646 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: to go to his inn place. And people pointed out 647 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: that this is something that happens during grooming, telling a 648 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: child to pretend you're somewhere else and to throw it 649 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: out there. I have seen cases where children who have 650 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: been sexually abused, severely abused us pets and dogs as 651 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: their sexual outlets. So bestiality is that isn't unheard of 652 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: for this type of community, because, as I said before, 653 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: when opportunities there, they're going to try it. And when 654 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: listener Emma wrote about this a while ago, she suggested 655 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: we could extrapolate this whole thing out to a societal 656 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: level to how we groom and sexualize young women in 657 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: the United States and probably a lot of the Western world. 658 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: And I mean, in my personal examples, the fact that 659 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: these men told me I was beautiful or that I 660 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: was sexy. They they knew that that's how I saw 661 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: my value, and they knew they could use that to 662 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 1: manipulate me. Um, are you, Samantha, you brought up religion? 663 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: How we could bring it out to that when we 664 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: talk about grooming or bringing someone up or making someone 665 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: in a certain way. When you look at religion, not 666 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: all religions, but when you look at some religions, they 667 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: specifically target women to be the subservient person, and so 668 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: that subservient person becomes a specific representation of a good person. 669 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: So like when I say, I'm struggling with this term 670 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 1: right now, So yeah, for women, sometimes in some religions, 671 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: they're used as trophy wives. So think about the stereotypical 672 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: preacher's wife. Not only are they created to birth children, 673 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: but they're also create to hold up the man and 674 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: be in the background and all of these things and 675 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: make the right food and make the right gestures and 676 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: make the right connections, but never be allowed to be 677 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: above the man. So you can you look at religion 678 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: and you're like, are they grooming certain things? And you 679 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: start grooming certain kids to be pastors used grooming certain 680 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: kids to be missionaries. So I see this in you. 681 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: I see this in you, so why don't we do 682 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: this for you? Yeah? The point being this is this 683 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: could be such a bigger conversation than the one we're 684 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: having today, and I think that is really fascinating and 685 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: kind of scary to think about. But I wanted to 686 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: put that in there. I'll be back to do that 687 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: one too, the one that's we're not talking about. But yeah, 688 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: I just created that. Okay, perfect. Um, Well, we do 689 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: have some more for you about recognizing signs, but first 690 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: we have one more quick break for a word from 691 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: our sponsor M and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. So 692 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: there are some signs that you can look out for 693 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: if you suspect someone you know is being groomed or 694 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: I guess even like turning it inward. Um, so, alcohol 695 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,720 Speaker 1: or drug use, nightmares, changes in diet or exercise patterns, insomnia, 696 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: disorder to eat in anxiety withdrawn nature, risk taking, acting 697 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: inappropriately sexual for their age, and self harm are suicidal tendencies. 698 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: And it's so strange during episodes like these for me 699 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: because it's kind of a checklist of things I experienced 700 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: and as I was researching this, I got a pit 701 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: in the feeling of my stomach because I I retroactively 702 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: recognized these signs it myself, right, And I think that 703 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: happens when you start looking back, you're like, oh my gosh, 704 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: this is a clear sign of And I though I've 705 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: actually spoken with a few women and it doesn't necessarily 706 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: have to do with grooming. But they didn't realize what 707 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 1: was happening was an assault onto them because they were like, oh, 708 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: I just gave up, blah blah blah. I said this 709 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: and he didn't listen, but whatever, And then they moved 710 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: on and we're having this conversation. They made the realization, oh, 711 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: my gosh, I was raped or I was assaulted, or 712 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 1: I was being groomed for this. And it's that clarity 713 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: of oh, because also at the initial moment, you don't 714 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: want to say you're victim. That's the last thing you 715 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: want to think. As bad as everything is, you don't 716 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: want to be one more thing of I'm a victim, 717 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:08,839 Speaker 1: and not that is a bad thing, but it does 718 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: feel like such a weakness even though you shouldn't. It 719 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with you. Yeah, and I know 720 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: so many listeners have written in about that very thing 721 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: you're talking about, Like, I didn't realize what happened to 722 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: me was this, um and it is. It's very difficult 723 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: to except like to put it in those terms, and 724 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people will avoid doing it. 725 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: And I know there's also and I'm pretty sure we're 726 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: gonna be talking about this in later episodes because I 727 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,439 Speaker 1: will be here forever um where they don't think it's 728 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: as bad. So maybe as a child you are never 729 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: actually raped, but you are touched and fondled. That's bad. 730 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,800 Speaker 1: Let's just put it out there. That's abuse and it 731 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: shouldn't have happened, and that will traumatize you. And if 732 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 1: you were able to move past it in a healthy manner, wonderful. 733 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,919 Speaker 1: If you haven't, it's not bad. You didn't do anything wrong, 734 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: it's not abnormal. You need help to get past this 735 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: because it happened to you, it was unwelcome, and it 736 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: was harmful. In the story, there's no this is worse 737 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: than this, that needs to be throwing out the window. Yeah, 738 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: we need to talk about all of these things. Um. So. 739 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 1: The NSPCC has a list of science um for children specifically, 740 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: and they include being secretive, especially about what they're doing online, 741 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: dating someone older, meeting up with people in strange places, 742 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 1: having new things they can't or won't explain, having access 743 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: to drugs and alcohol, nightmares, cleanness, bedwedding, masturbation, or touching 744 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: others inappropriately. Right, And I think I would include in 745 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: some of these things. When they randomly start bringing up 746 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 1: strangers names that you don't recognize, which has happened a lot, 747 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: and you start asking questions and if they can't tell 748 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: you last names. As a person who has done investigations 749 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: for child abuse, that was one of the things that 750 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: I would look for. I saw it met with this part. Really, 751 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: who is this is my soul? And solo's friend? Okay, 752 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: what's his last name? I don't know. How often do 753 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: you see him? When do you just things like that. 754 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: That's actually a big sign too. They start suddenly talking 755 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: about this wonderful person, but yet you don't know who 756 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: they are, where they came from, but they crept up. 757 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 1: That's something to watch from two. And when talking about prevention, 758 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to children, it's recommended speaking to 759 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 1: them about sex and anatomy at a young age, letting 760 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: them know that they can come to you with concerns 761 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: and teaching them about grooming behaviors and like you were 762 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 1: seeing touching, like if you don't want to hug, it's 763 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: totally cool and just I think it's just a reminder 764 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: for the parents and our adults who are dealing with 765 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: the situation too. If this happens to your child, your niece, 766 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: your nephew, your student, it isn't your fault. And I 767 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,240 Speaker 1: know part of that shame comes on to the parents 768 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,839 Speaker 1: or adults as well. I actually experienced this myself as 769 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 1: a child. I had gone through several different types of 770 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: abuse and I was acting out in class and I 771 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: also was suicidal, and because my parents didn't know what 772 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: to do and they felt shame and they felt guilt, 773 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 1: they lashed out in a different manner, which they have 774 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: apologized when we've gone through all the nose and is. 775 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: But I shouldn't essentially making me feel more ashamed and 776 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: not being able to come out again with any of 777 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: more information. On top of that, this should not be 778 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: something that you beat yourself up for. That is part 779 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,879 Speaker 1: of the health as well, you being in the proximity 780 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: of someone else being victimized. It is not your fault. 781 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: Either and you need to care for yourself as much 782 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: as you need to care for this victim, right Yeah. 783 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: And as I've said on this show before, um I've 784 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: actually never told anyone in my family any of this, 785 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: like they would be shocked. Um And then part of 786 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,760 Speaker 1: that is because I didn't want them to feel guilty, 787 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: right So, and the thing is that that's me. They've 788 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: never really given me indication that they would, but that 789 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: is a part of it. Like I considered that I 790 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,680 Speaker 1: haven't told them. Um. So those that's a good point, 791 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: and we have some some resources to to put in here. 792 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,400 Speaker 1: If you realize that you or someone you know is 793 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: the target of grooming, there is there is help for 794 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: you out there. The first step is recognizing what's going on. 795 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: Once you do that, identify someone outside of this relationship 796 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 1: that you can talk to about it. In a perfect world, 797 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: this would be a professional someone who doesn't know the groomer, 798 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: but that isn't always an option for everyone, unfortunately. You 799 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 1: can find resources online that have advice on getting out 800 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: of a situation like this, and you can call the 801 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: U S National Domestic Violence Hotline, which is eight zero 802 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: zero seven nine nine seven two three three, or the 803 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 1: US Victim Connect Resource Center eight five eight four to 804 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: eight four six. They also have online options, but I 805 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: mean one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen 806 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: is that they have like this function or if you 807 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: click away, it erases your history. Right. There are several 808 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: options for domestic violence victims where you click it and 809 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,280 Speaker 1: it goes to whether it's your dial page or whatever. Unfortunately, 810 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,879 Speaker 1: it's necessary, and I wanted to add one more out there, 811 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 1: which is with the Child Health National Hotline, so this 812 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: could be specifically to child services child needs. It is 813 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: one eight hundred for a child, so are one eight 814 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,319 Speaker 1: hundred four two two four four or five three. And 815 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 1: I know in each individual state there are hotlines to 816 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,800 Speaker 1: your department Family and Children's Services or Family and Children's 817 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: Services that are available, which in the perfect world would 818 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 1: be the end all, but at least you are doing something. Yeah, 819 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 1: and for listeners not in the United States, there are 820 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: resources in UM a lot of a lot of other 821 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: countries as well, obviously, so there there is help out there. 822 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,320 Speaker 1: A lot of times targets of grooming might not realize 823 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: what's going on. And we'll outright to this came up 824 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: a lot with the thing with R Kelly, which makes 825 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: helping them difficult, and the best way to approach the 826 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,720 Speaker 1: situation from what I've read, is to be a friend 827 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: and good listener to the target of grooming, voice your 828 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,239 Speaker 1: concerns and give reasonings in a calm manner. If you 829 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 1: try to remove someone from the situation forcefully, it could 830 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: get worse for the person that you're talking to. However, 831 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: if the target is a minor or otherwise vulnerable adults, 832 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,879 Speaker 1: and authorized adults really needs to intervene. And then again, 833 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,800 Speaker 1: this is something you see with like cults. Yeah, and again, 834 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 1: I keep referencing my job and my career. I have 835 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 1: seen many times where our parents just kind of go 836 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: after him, go after him and continuously kius. Run away kids, 837 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: run away kids run away. And one of the big 838 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,879 Speaker 1: things that we have to say, we can't make them 839 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: admit what's going on. We can't make them say they're 840 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,279 Speaker 1: a victim, we can't make them say this makes them 841 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 1: unhappy because in the end, we don't know where they 842 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,879 Speaker 1: come from or came from. And oftentimes in my job 843 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,279 Speaker 1: as a social worker working with children and working with teenagers, 844 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: I see that they think this is a better route 845 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,440 Speaker 1: because they feel like they have more control than what 846 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,800 Speaker 1: is happening at home. So that is definitely a situation, UM, 847 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,799 Speaker 1: and there's not much you can do other than make 848 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: sure you're there for them and continue to be there 849 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,919 Speaker 1: for them and check in on them. So I guess 850 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: to give a little bit of closure for for what 851 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: I was talking about earlier in my situation. The longest 852 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,800 Speaker 1: phase of abuse I had ended with a car crash 853 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: and um arrest that I still feel very guilty about 854 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: because I really wanted them out of my life. Um, 855 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't do it, and when it happened in this abrupt, 856 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: violent way, I was so relieved, and that, even though 857 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,359 Speaker 1: I know it's totally legitimate and human to feel that way, 858 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,200 Speaker 1: it made me feel really awful about myself. So that's 859 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: something I still struggle. These aren't easy, easy things to 860 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,280 Speaker 1: deal with, Like we're giving you advice, but we're telling 861 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,319 Speaker 1: you from people who have experienced things we know super 862 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 1: cool And this is where we're coming back to understanding trauma. 863 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 1: And that's why we are talking about this because we 864 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,360 Speaker 1: want you to see every different aspect. Maybe all you 865 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: had was the grooming experience that's still traumatic. Maybe someone 866 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,080 Speaker 1: you knew went through that experience that's still traumatic, and 867 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,359 Speaker 1: of course we're gonna keep talking about it and keep 868 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 1: going into it um as we go into more of 869 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 1: these episodes. But again, these are things that both Annie 870 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,000 Speaker 1: and I have experience, have seen, continue to see and 871 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:31,480 Speaker 1: try to hopefully champion for the people who can't champion 872 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: for themselves essentially, but it's important once again to take 873 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: care of yourself and these guilt acknowledge that they're there. 874 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: Trying to pretend like it's not there does not work, 875 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,800 Speaker 1: I promise. I have come out on many panic attacks 876 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,760 Speaker 1: trying to repress a lot of a lot of things 877 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,319 Speaker 1: in my past, and unfortunately, which is what we're gonna 878 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: talk about, with the different types of trauma, PTSD, c PTSD, 879 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,719 Speaker 1: all of those things it comes out, unfortunately, whether it's 880 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,839 Speaker 1: in your relationships in the daily life, or whether it's 881 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,360 Speaker 1: in panic attacks and mental health things, it does. And 882 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,839 Speaker 1: so therefore, caring for yourself and acknowledging that these are 883 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,279 Speaker 1: there are actually very very important. Yes, And um that 884 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,319 Speaker 1: brings us to we're going to try to end all 885 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: of these episodes with some self care stuff. UM, So 886 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna like go through what we're doing for self 887 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,560 Speaker 1: care for me, I am finally watching Spider Man three, 888 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,799 Speaker 1: which I know some people who would argue as the 889 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: opposite of self care. But I'm excited about These are 890 00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: not things I don't know. I'm so excited. It's notoriously 891 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: pretty bad and I'm making I'm doing this because I'm 892 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,400 Speaker 1: working on a Venom parody music video, so it's very important, 893 00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: which I'm very excited about. Gosh, I am too. I 894 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 1: can't tell you how excited I am about it. We 895 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:50,960 Speaker 1: cannot be in it, Oh, please be in it. I'm 896 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,880 Speaker 1: recruiting everyone who will help me. So listeners, if you guys, 897 00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,520 Speaker 1: it's a song parody to the tune of Beck's Loser, 898 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: because in the movie Venom, if you don't know, he 899 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: calls himself a loser in a very funny tone of voice. Anyway, 900 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 1: Also hanging out with friends and going hiking, and um 901 00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 1: for the D and D fact of the episode, because 902 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to include one of these for everyone since 903 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 1: my the whole reason I started playing D and D 904 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,879 Speaker 1: was to deal with my c PTSD. UM. Okay, so 905 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 1: one thing that's great about DN D or terrible, depending 906 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,919 Speaker 1: on who you ask, is that it rarely goes as 907 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 1: planned for anybody, and my character is sort of notorious 908 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,719 Speaker 1: for blowing stuff up, and and in the game, we 909 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:42,120 Speaker 1: were invited to this very fancy partycy like we had 910 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:47,560 Speaker 1: to buy dresses our suits. Yeah, very fancy. It went 911 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,960 Speaker 1: terribly arrived. All the authorities of this entire town are 912 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,600 Speaker 1: looking forward like they chase us out of the party, 913 00:50:54,800 --> 00:51:00,399 Speaker 1: and I make time my character to blow something up 914 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:06,239 Speaker 1: while we're being pursued by the police. And then we 915 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,960 Speaker 1: broke into this mean old ladies magic shop again being 916 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 1: pursued by the police. When you're saying this, this is 917 00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: all on the game, not in real life, because I 918 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,919 Speaker 1: got really like, how are you not arrested? And also 919 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,399 Speaker 1: who has a magic shop? Keep going, I'm ready now. Yes, 920 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,480 Speaker 1: so we're not great people, if that's not clear, our 921 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,600 Speaker 1: characters aren't, but we're fun. We're fun at parties. Are 922 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:38,560 Speaker 1: the party's imaginary parties or okay, so parties we'll see. Yes, um, 923 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,320 Speaker 1: but one of our party members stole an owl cloak 924 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,800 Speaker 1: that when he put it on our dungeon masters, the 925 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: person that's kind of running the game, he said, you're 926 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,880 Speaker 1: not sure what it does, but you feel really confident. 927 00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 1: And now he never takes his character never takes it 928 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,880 Speaker 1: off and he looks cool as hell. He always describes 929 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 1: how he's wearing it. The next day after we played, 930 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,840 Speaker 1: Paul Manafort got busted for his ostrich coat, and I 931 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: thought it was perfect, perfect. So he's pretty much Dungeons 932 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,600 Speaker 1: and Dragons meaphor who doesn't want to be that. Oh 933 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,800 Speaker 1: my gosh, I right there, that's the parody in itself. 934 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 1: It is okay. So my fun facts would have to 935 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,440 Speaker 1: do with my dinky dog, Peaches Gertrude Buzzin. Yeah, that's 936 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,759 Speaker 1: her full name. She yelled that out loud to her 937 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,960 Speaker 1: when she does something dumb, which is often, and I 938 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,960 Speaker 1: have been told that dogs taking on the characters of 939 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:34,000 Speaker 1: their person. Yeah, I can't deny that. I can't deny 940 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,839 Speaker 1: that she's a jerk, but I love her. She can't 941 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,120 Speaker 1: go out in public because she acts a fool, but 942 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:47,919 Speaker 1: she loves everyone except for other dogs. She loves men 943 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:52,160 Speaker 1: more interesting. And I'm not gonna slut shamer, but that 944 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,759 Speaker 1: makes me feel some type of way because I don't 945 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,000 Speaker 1: have that many men come in through my life, and 946 00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 1: I already feel kind of weird about that because I 947 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,359 Speaker 1: feel like I should. As we talked about the previous episodes. Um, 948 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,240 Speaker 1: so I feel like she's giving me a double wimmy 949 00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,040 Speaker 1: of shame and like you're not good enough and why 950 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,600 Speaker 1: don't you have a man? I'm pretty sure that's the 951 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,080 Speaker 1: look I got from her. And if you see, if 952 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,359 Speaker 1: anybody ever wants a picture of me and her during 953 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:16,759 Speaker 1: the New Year's and I give her a kiss and 954 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,560 Speaker 1: she rolls her eyes at me, that is a constant yes, yes, 955 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:25,120 Speaker 1: And you have offered before if you have pictures, she 956 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,319 Speaker 1: has pictures, And if you want them, if you need 957 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,640 Speaker 1: them for your own self care, you can write in 958 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,839 Speaker 1: I got him. She's wearing a hat and one she's 959 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,560 Speaker 1: wearing a tiger suit, no, a lion suit and one 960 00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,080 Speaker 1: Christmas p js. In one she's sitting on top of 961 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:42,319 Speaker 1: people in another. Oh my goodness. See a lot of options. Yeah, 962 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,840 Speaker 1: And if you need resources, you can reach out to 963 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,479 Speaker 1: us as well. Um, Samantha will be back in our 964 00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:56,240 Speaker 1: our next episode ever forever in this series on examining trauma, 965 00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:01,040 Speaker 1: and the next episode is about trauma specifically, so you 966 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,960 Speaker 1: can look out watch your feed for that. In the meantime, 967 00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,239 Speaker 1: if you want to email us, if you need any 968 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,000 Speaker 1: of those resources. Are those pictures you can. Our email 969 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,439 Speaker 1: is mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com. Our 970 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,399 Speaker 1: Twitter is mom Stuff Podcast, and on Instagram we are 971 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,279 Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you. Thanks as always to our 972 00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,880 Speaker 1: producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to Andrew for listening.