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Speaker 1: How can massless photons add to a black hole's might?

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Speaker 1: Can you really make a singularity out of light?

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Speaker 2: Organs that come in twos include the long hand, kidney, foot,

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Speaker 2: and eye? But why do I only have one of

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Speaker 2: some things? And what's the plural of venus?

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Speaker 1: Ain't I could drifting bubble universes collide to end our

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Speaker 1: cosmic show my gravity in other dimensions?

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Speaker 3: Ever?

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Speaker 2: Let us know whatever questions keep you up at night.

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Speaker 2: Daniel and Kelly's answers will make it right.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe.

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Speaker 4: We've done twenty eight of these. Hello, Kelly, we or Smith.

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Speaker 2: I study parasites and space and whatever it is that

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Speaker 2: y'all ask me when you send us emails.

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Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Daniel.

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Speaker 1: I'm a particle physicist, and I've answered a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions from listeners, but never any about ANI.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, that's Daniel. You'd be taking my questions. I

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Speaker 2: am the ANI experts in this group. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: You stick to the black holes and I stick to

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Speaker 2: the biology black holes.

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Speaker 1: Isn't there an obvious connection exactly? Aren't black holes a

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Speaker 1: sort of physics anus?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And I of the universe.

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Speaker 2: All right, you stick to the ani of the cosmos.

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Speaker 2: I stick to the ani of the Earth.

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Speaker 1: But wait now I'm realizing it. We have it all wrong,

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Speaker 1: don't we. Black holes are more like mouths, and white

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Speaker 1: holes would be more like anus'es. Why because things don't

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Speaker 1: come out of black holes?

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Speaker 4: Oh, they go in and things go out of white holes.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know yet another instance where the physicists did

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Speaker 2: a poor job of naming things.

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Speaker 4: Yes, there you go again.

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Speaker 1: It is hard to keep the inns in the out

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Speaker 1: streets and time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, well we have started by going off track,

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Speaker 2: so let's work on getting back on track. So we

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Speaker 2: are very lucky to have an audience that has so

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Speaker 2: many absolutely fascinating questions, and you all send them to us.

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Speaker 2: You send them to us at Questions at danieland Kelly

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Speaker 2: dot org.

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Speaker 1: And it's our job to break down the ins and

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Speaker 1: the outs of the universe, to explain to you how

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Speaker 1: it all works, to inject the whole universe into your brain.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we're going to do. On today's episode.

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Speaker 1: We have three warrantful questions from listeners. People who are

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Speaker 1: curious about the universe, people who've been listening and thinking

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Speaker 1: and there's something that doesn't quite click in their minds.

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Speaker 1: We want to make that click happen for you. So

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Speaker 1: if you are sitting on a question something you've never

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Speaker 1: really had satisfactory explained, please don't be shy. Write to

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Speaker 1: us questions at danieland Kelly dot org. We really do

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Speaker 1: right back to everybody.

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Speaker 2: Daniel worries back to everybody within a day. I am

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Speaker 2: not quite as punk as Daniel. You'll get an answer

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Speaker 2: from me in less than a week, for sure. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: we write back to everybody. Some of the questions even

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Speaker 2: end up on the show.

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Speaker 1: I promise you that email address is not a black hole.

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Speaker 1: It's more like a white hole because answers come out

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, and we are going to stretch

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Speaker 2: this metaphor as far as we can, and so stick

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Speaker 2: with us till the end of the show to see

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Speaker 2: where we go with it. So let's start with our

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Speaker 2: first question with Stephen from British Columbia.

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Speaker 5: Hi, Daniel and Kelly, it's Stephen from BC Canada again

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Speaker 5: with another question about our universe. In one of your

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Speaker 5: past episodes, you glaze over a fact that photons can

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Speaker 5: collapse into tiny black holes. My question today is about

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Speaker 5: those tiny black holes. What is really going on inside

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Speaker 5: a tiny black hole? How can something with no mass

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Speaker 5: be able to collapse, never mind collapse into one of

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Speaker 5: the most densest objects known in the universe. How can

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Speaker 5: a black hole be tiny? Is there a singularity in them?

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Speaker 3: How can a.

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Speaker 5: Photon become a singularity inside a tiny black hole? I

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Speaker 5: look forward to your answers.

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Speaker 1: All right, I love this question because he's really thinking

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Speaker 1: about the extremes. You know, we talk on this show

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Speaker 1: about general relativity and energy density and stuff, and he's

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Speaker 1: pushing it to the edge, which is what you have

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Speaker 1: to do to really understand physics, to say, does this

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Speaker 1: really connect in my brain? Do I understand every scenario?

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Speaker 1: What about this? What about that? What about this other thing?

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Speaker 1: What about this thing?

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Speaker 3: I heard?

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Speaker 1: So stevens out there doing physics in his mind. Congrats Steven,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very excited to answer this question for you.

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Speaker 2: And usually when we need to answer a physics question,

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Speaker 2: it makes sense to go way back to the beginning

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Speaker 2: to terms that you've heard since you were in kindergarten,

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Speaker 2: because there's probably something basic about them that you don't

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Speaker 2: quite understand. So Daniel, let's start with gravity. What remind

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Speaker 2: us what is gravity?

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Speaker 1: Yes, so Newton told us that gravity was a force

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Speaker 1: between masses, but then Einstein revealed that it's actually the

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Speaker 1: curvature of space time. That what we think think of

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Speaker 1: its gravity is actually a pseudo force because we can't

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Speaker 1: see the curvature of space time and its effect on

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Speaker 1: the motion of objects, and because we can't see its effect,

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Speaker 1: we attribute some mysterious force to doing that, sort of

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Speaker 1: like if you're on a merry go Round and you

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Speaker 1: throw a ball at somebody across the merry go round

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Speaker 1: from you. It won't reach them, it'll curl to the side,

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Speaker 1: and you'll think, why is that I didn't throw it

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Speaker 1: to the side. So you'll come up with some pseudo

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Speaker 1: force that accounts for the motion of that object, the

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Speaker 1: acceleration of that object. In the same way, if you're

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Speaker 1: standing on the surface of the Earth and you let

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Speaker 1: go of an apple, it seems like something accelerates it

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Speaker 1: towards the Earth. Really the apple is just following the

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Speaker 1: curvature of space time, and you're the one accelerating against

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Speaker 1: space time. So general relativity reformulates gravity as the curvature

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Speaker 1: of space time that affects the motion of objects in

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Speaker 1: a way that makes us think there's a force we

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Speaker 1: would call gravity.

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Speaker 4: Feels like that doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 2: But if Newton got it wrong, I don't feel so

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Speaker 2: bad about getting it wrong too.

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Speaker 1: And the crucial thing to understand in the context of

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Speaker 1: this question is that the curvature of space time comes

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Speaker 1: from energy density. We often think about it as mass

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Speaker 1: tells space time how to bend, but it's not just mass.

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Speaker 1: General relativity generalizes from beyond just mass to any kind

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Speaker 1: of energy density. So, for example, if you have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of photons that contribute to the energy density, and

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Speaker 1: it can make it easier to have a black hole

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Speaker 1: because photons have energy.

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Speaker 2: Of course, okay, photons have energy. That is not a

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Speaker 2: controversial statement, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And so like the canonical way to make

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Speaker 1: a black hole is to take a big bunch of

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Speaker 1: mass and squeeze it down into a tiny area. Like

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Speaker 1: if you took the mass of the Earth and you

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Speaker 1: squeezed it down to the volume of about a peanut,

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Speaker 1: then it would become a black hole. So black holes

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Speaker 1: are about energy density. Or if you took the Sun

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Speaker 1: and you squeezed it down to a few kilometers, it

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Speaker 1: would become a black hole. But you can also do

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Speaker 1: that with just energy if you took enough light, if

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Speaker 1: you focused a lot of photons in a tiny region,

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Speaker 1: like you had a bunch of lasers overlapping where you

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Speaker 1: had a big spherical mirror, so all the photons were

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Speaker 1: in the same place. If you got enough energy density

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Speaker 1: in one location at the same moment, it would curve

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Speaker 1: space time enough to give you a black hole.

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Speaker 2: Ooh, all right, So isn't there that there's a facility

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Speaker 2: in California that's working on fusion and they're shooting a

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Speaker 2: bunch of lasers at a little bit of fusion fuel.

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Speaker 4: Are they going to kill us all with a black hole?

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Speaker 1: That's the National Ignition Facility, and they're working on inertial

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Speaker 1: confinement fusion. They take little pellets of fuel and they

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Speaker 1: zap them with like one hundred and ninety six lasers.

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Speaker 1: I think they are in order to implode it. Like

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Speaker 1: the explosion of the shell creates an implosion which compresses

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Speaker 1: the core and then ignites fusion for that little pellet.

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Speaker 1: Super awesome, really cool project, but not nearly enough energy

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Speaker 1: to create a black hole. In order to create this

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Speaker 1: kind of energy, you'd need very high energy density, something

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Speaker 1: like ten to the thirty five jewels in a region

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Speaker 1: like ten to the negative fifteen meters across. You need

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Speaker 1: like more energy than is put out by the Sun

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Speaker 1: every second concentrated into a tiny little region. So it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty big engineering problem. In principle, it's possible, which

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Speaker 1: I think is the source of Stephen's question. In practice,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about black holes being made

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Speaker 1: on the Earth by tiny, little dinky.

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Speaker 3: Men made lasers.

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Speaker 4: That's comforting.

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Speaker 1: And so Steven's asking how can something with no mass

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Speaker 1: collapse into one of the densest objects in the universe.

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Speaker 1: So remember it's energy density that's collapsing here, that's creating

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Speaker 1: that surface. And when you think about, like, well, what

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Speaker 1: is that black hole made out of? Is there a

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Speaker 1: singularity inside of it? Remember that the black hole is

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Speaker 1: not made of the original matter that you put into it.

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Speaker 1: Like if you drop a bunch of electrons into a

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Speaker 1: tiny region to make a black hole, you don't know

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Speaker 1: what the form of the matter is inside the black hole.

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Speaker 1: It's not like there are a bunch of electrons still

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Speaker 1: in there. The only thing you can know about the

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Speaker 1: black hole is its total mass, which represents the energy

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Speaker 1: that's captured inside of it, it's total charge, and it's spin.

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Speaker 1: No original nature of the objects is preserved as far

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Speaker 1: as we know, So if you make a black hole

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Speaker 1: out of photons, it looks exactly the same as a

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Speaker 1: black hole made out of neutrons or anything else that

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Speaker 1: has the same total energy, charge and spin.

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Speaker 2: So what happened to the electrons? Did they just get

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Speaker 2: like smoohed into something unrecognizable?

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Speaker 1: We don't know, right, Like general relativity tells us that

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Speaker 1: they form a singularity, but that ignores all the quantum

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Speaker 1: mechanical stuff we know about electrons and how they don't

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Speaker 1: like to be on top of each other, and who

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Speaker 1: knows what happens when you squish them down. Maybe there's

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Speaker 1: things inside the electrons. Maybe the electron is a composite particle.

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Speaker 1: When you smush them together that tightly, they break open

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Speaker 1: and form some sort of plast of their intermediate states.

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Speaker 4: Who knows, Right, we might finally know.

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Speaker 1: We might finally know, but it would be hidden behind

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Speaker 1: the event horizon. So the point is that, like, yes,

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Speaker 1: general relativity predicts a singularity at the heart of a

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Speaker 1: black hole made out of pure photons. But you can't

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Speaker 1: really know, and the singularity itself is a prediction of

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Speaker 1: general relativity, which ignores quantum mechanics anyway, so we think

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Speaker 1: it's probably wrong. So the answer is, we have no

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Speaker 1: idea what's going on inside that black hole. But in principle,

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Speaker 1: that black hole is no different from a black hole

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Speaker 1: you made out of electrons or cheese, or you know,

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Speaker 1: the anuses of your lab.

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Speaker 3: Rats or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Oh great, would you pick lab rats? I feel like

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Speaker 4: blue whales.

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Speaker 2: Like there's if you're gonna make a black hole out

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Speaker 2: of something, you gotta go go big or go home.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if you add up the biomass of

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Speaker 1: the anuses of rats on Earth versus blue whales, what

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Speaker 1: do you think is larger?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Probably rats?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But what do you think the greatest anus biomass

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Speaker 2: on the planet is.

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Speaker 4: I bet it's could be humans, might be humans.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe you're a biologist and you don't know

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Speaker 1: the answer to this question off the top of your head.

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Speaker 4: I'm a little embarrassed. I'm a little embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: And you know, while it's out of the reach of

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Speaker 1: our technology to create black holes out of photons. Currently

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Speaker 1: in the future, you know, maybe if we become like

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Speaker 1: a Kardashev type two civilization or whatever, we build a

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Speaker 1: dice in sphere that captures all of the energy of

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Speaker 1: the Sun. It is possible in the future we might

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Speaker 1: be able to do it. Or maybe aliens are out

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Speaker 1: there doing it right now and we could watch them

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Speaker 1: doing it from afar. That could be the way that

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Speaker 1: we discover the existence of aliens. Amazing, awesome, would be

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Speaker 1: super cool. Please don't point those beams at us. But

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Speaker 1: there's another way. It's possible that we could create these

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Speaker 1: black holes. It's possible they could also exist naturally. Now

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Speaker 1: there's no like natural huge laser focusing light beams. But

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Speaker 1: in the very early universe, things were very hot and

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Speaker 1: very dense, and there's the theory that black holes could

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Speaker 1: have formed even before, like protons formed and electrons formed

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Speaker 1: in that primordial soup, there was great energy density. Now,

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Speaker 1: the whole universe didn't collapse quickly into a black hole

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Speaker 1: because to get a black hole you need relative energy density.

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Speaker 1: You need one region to be denser than another. So

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Speaker 1: if the whole universe is filled with energy density, you

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Speaker 1: don't get a black hole. But we also know there

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Speaker 1: were little quantum fluctuations, some pockets that were more dense

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Speaker 1: than others, and so this is the theory of primordial

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Speaker 1: black holes, that maybe there were some regions that fluctuated

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Speaker 1: enough to have enough energy density to create black holes

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Speaker 1: before there was even particles made. Now we've never seen

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Speaker 1: any of these, but in principle, back in the early universe,

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Speaker 1: when it was radiation dominated, when most of the energy

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Speaker 1: in the universe was in things like photons, then it's

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Speaker 1: possible you had a pocketive space that had enough energy

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Speaker 1: density just in photons to make a primordial black hole

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Speaker 1: out of light. So it's possible it does exist in

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Speaker 1: the universe.

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Speaker 2: No, you're looking at me because it's my turn to

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Speaker 2: say something. But I am still trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: the anus thing.

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Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. I mostly was listening, but I can't.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, all right, Well, then, since Kelly's since Kelly's

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Speaker 1: been distracted, let's see if Steven's been paying attention. Steven,

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Speaker 1: let us know if that answered your question or if

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Speaker 1: you're just gonna file it away in the white hole

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Speaker 1: in your mind.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if that made any sense.

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Speaker 4: I don't think so.

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Speaker 5: Hi, Daniel and Kelly, it's Stephen from British Columbia. Again,

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Speaker 5: thanks again for answering my question about what is going

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Speaker 5: on inside tiny black holes. That explanation was super helpful.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're back and we're answering questions from listeners about

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Speaker 1: black holes, about white holes, about ins and outs, about

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Speaker 1: everything in the universe. We want to answer your questions

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Speaker 1: because science is for everybody in the universe deserves to

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Speaker 1: be understood. Up next, we have an amazing question about

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Speaker 1: the human body, and it's symmetry and asymmetry from Jerry.

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Speaker 7: Hey, Daniel and Kelly love the show.

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Speaker 8: My left brain learns so much, but then my right

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Speaker 8: brain has a question. How come there are two parts

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Speaker 8: to a lot of our body. We have two eyes,

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Speaker 8: we have two ears, We have two lungs, we have

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Speaker 8: two kidneys, but those kidneys only lead to one bladder,

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Speaker 8: and there's only one stomach, and there's only one spleen.

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Speaker 8: You probably could live with one lung or one kidney,

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Speaker 8: and maybe you could live with half a brain and

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Speaker 8: be a politician. But why are we built this way?

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Speaker 8: We have two of some things and only one of another.

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Speaker 8: Love the show.

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Speaker 4: Thanks, Well, I gotta be honest with you.

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Speaker 2: I have had this question sitting on my stack for

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Speaker 2: a few months because I just kind of wasn't really

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Speaker 2: sure how how to answer this one, Like what is

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Speaker 2: the answer why sometimes a human body just is the

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Speaker 2: way it is? And uh and so all right, So

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Speaker 2: here's what I came up with, because it is a

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Speaker 2: great a good question. It's a great question.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's start with the meta answer, like is there

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Speaker 1: always an answer? What kind of answer do you think

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Speaker 1: Jerry's looking for? Is he looking for an answer where

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Speaker 1: it's like this works better than the opposite, Like there's

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Speaker 1: a reason we don't have two brains and there's a

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Speaker 1: reason we don't have two mouths because it would be better.

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Speaker 1: Or is it satisfying just to say we don't know,

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Speaker 1: this seems to work and we can't ever trace back

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Speaker 1: all the details of our evolutionary history to understand why.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I tried to find an evolutionary answer, and

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Speaker 2: I tried to find a mechanistic answer, and I tried

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Speaker 2: to find a like stories that kind of make this

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Speaker 2: make sense sort of answer.

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Speaker 1: You didn't go for an Aristotilian answer. It isn't the

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Speaker 1: way of humanity, to have one mouth.

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Speaker 4: To have one butt, one butt but with two cheeks.

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Speaker 1: What was Aristotle's theory of the anis? Was he the

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Speaker 1: first one to think about the anis?

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Speaker 4: You know, I didn't get as far back as Aristotle.

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Speaker 3: Actually, you always got to go back to Aristotle, Kelly.

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Speaker 1: He's like the original, you know, paper out of the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Union that you didn't read and that came out

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies that totally scoops your thesis.

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Speaker 3: He was the original dude to do that.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, yes, well I'm really I hope that I

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Speaker 2: can still give a satisfactory answer having not read Aristotle's.

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Speaker 4: Opinion on this, but you know, I will.

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Speaker 2: I'll note that having things like two eyes and two

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Speaker 2: lungs but only one heart and one brain is a

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Speaker 2: sort of ancient state. You know, pretty much all land

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Speaker 2: vertebrates have this, and land vertebrates have been around for

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Speaker 2: over a three hundred million years. When you go into like,

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Speaker 2: you know, the water, you find cephalopods that have three hearts.

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Speaker 2: So it is possible to have three hearts. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: have to be the case that you only have one heart.

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Speaker 2: And on land there are worms that have multiple heart

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Speaker 2: like things, but we only have one heart. It does

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Speaker 2: kind of start as like two hearts and it sort

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Speaker 2: of fuses together into one heart that's like symmetrical with

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Speaker 2: you know, two sets of chambers on each side. So

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Speaker 2: one answer is that it's ancient. This has been around

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Speaker 2: for a long time. So maybe this is the best

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Speaker 2: solution and that's why we've had it for three hundred

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Speaker 2: million years, or maybe we're just kind of locked in

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Speaker 2: at this point, and the fact that we've had it

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Speaker 2: for three hundred million years just shows that this arrangement

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Speaker 2: of things is sort of hard to get out of.

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Speaker 1: Well, what do you mean by three hundred million years?

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Speaker 1: What happened three hundred million years ago? Was that the

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Speaker 1: Cambrian explosion.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is when we started to get land vertebrates.

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Speaker 2: So it's when like vertebrates started coming up out of

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Speaker 2: the water and sort of walking around on land and

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Speaker 2: breathing air as opposed to using gills to extract oxygen

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Speaker 2: from the water.

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Speaker 1: Okay, because fish, for example, I have two eyes and

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Speaker 1: two ears and one mouth, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: similarities there, right, so it must go back even further.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of similarities I mean, they don't

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Speaker 2: have like two lungs, for example, but they do have,

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Speaker 2: you know, like two gills. But yeah, so there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of things that are similar. But I was

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Speaker 2: trying to look for I had lungs on the brain

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Speaker 2: when I was starting this, and so I was looking

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Speaker 2: for things with two lungs. So I mean symmetry. If

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Speaker 2: you just want to ask about symmetry, symmetry goes back

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Speaker 2: even farging, Like, there's a lot of organisms that weren't

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Speaker 2: necessarily symmetrical the way we are. So if you were

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Speaker 2: to draw a line, you know, straight through our head

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Speaker 2: that goes down like through our butts, and you fold

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Speaker 2: us over more symmetrical that way. I think that's called

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Speaker 2: bilateral symmetry. But there are other organisms that are radially symmetrical.

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Speaker 4: I think that's what it's called.

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Speaker 2: I didn't necessarily plan on going this far back, so

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Speaker 2: I'm pulling this out of my uh Aristatilian hole Aristotelian hole.

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Speaker 2: So being symmetrical is a thing that has been around

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Speaker 2: for a long time. And there's a couple of different

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Speaker 2: hypotheses for why symmetry tree is good. A couple hypotheses

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Speaker 2: I came across were that, like, you know, one in

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Speaker 2: our very ancient history, when we were like tubes that

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Speaker 2: were symmetrical, the idea was that it was easier for

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Speaker 2: us to like pull food through our tube and like

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Speaker 2: extract resources from it when we were roughly symmetrical, and

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Speaker 2: then when we became bilaterally symmetrical. So like imagine you

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Speaker 2: have flippers, it's easier to move in a controlled manner

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Speaker 2: when you're symmetrical on both sides.

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Speaker 4: So it was for like locomotory purposes. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, some things that can totally understand why two makes

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Speaker 1: sense and one doesn't. You know, like two eyes, one

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Speaker 1: on each side of your head to see in both

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Speaker 1: directions or to get binocular vision. Same thing for ears,

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Speaker 1: same thing for flippers, same thing for legs. Right, two

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Speaker 1: legs definitely seem to work better than one leg. But

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Speaker 1: I guess I wonder why then you don't have two

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Speaker 1: of everything? Right, Like, isn't it always better to have

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Speaker 1: to Is there a sort of cost benefit analysis going

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Speaker 1: on here where having two things means more to maintain.

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Speaker 3: More to go?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I started thinking about it on like an

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Speaker 2: organ by organ basis, and so you're right, it does

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Speaker 2: feel like from a survival standpoint, having a backup of

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Speaker 2: the organs might be helpful. So, for example, if one

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Speaker 2: of your kidneys goes, it would be helpful to have

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Speaker 2: another kidney, although that other kidney has to work really

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Speaker 2: hard if there's just one left, and there's some evidence

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Speaker 2: to suggest that that other kidney's going to fall apart

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Speaker 2: faster if it's doing essentially twice the work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously having a second kidney working as backup for

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Speaker 1: both isn't perfect, but it does extend your life if

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Speaker 1: one kidney fails.

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Speaker 2: Right, Oh, yeah, absolutely absolutely, But sometimes having two organs

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Speaker 2: isn't just a redundancy thing. So you mentioned that eyes,

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Speaker 2: having two of them gives you depth perception ears, having

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Speaker 2: two of them allows you to do a better job

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Speaker 2: of localizing where sounds are coming from. Nostrils, actually having

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Speaker 2: two of them is helpful. Your nostrils actually switch off.

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Speaker 2: There's this thing called nasal dominance, where one nostril is

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Speaker 2: the one that is doing the bulk of the breathing

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Speaker 2: while the other one is like moving air a little

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Speaker 2: bit more slowly. And it looks like there's a couple

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Speaker 2: different functions here. One of them is a little bit

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Speaker 2: more important for smelling, Like the air is moving more

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Speaker 2: slowly over that nostril, and it seems like there's some

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Speaker 2: sense that are better understood when part of it passes

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Speaker 2: over our scent receptors quickly and some part of it

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Speaker 2: passes over our scent receptors slowly.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And so each of our nostrils are not doing the

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Speaker 2: exact same thing. Our nostrils are alternating. And sometimes when

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Speaker 2: you have a cold, I don't know if you can tell,

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Speaker 2: like you'll be like, ah, I can breathe on one

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Speaker 2: of my nose but not the other. And it's because

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Speaker 2: your nasal passages take turns, with one of them being

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Speaker 2: a little bit more swelled up to like make that

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Speaker 2: be the nostril that passes air a little bit more slowly.

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Speaker 2: And you can really tell that that's the case when

441
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 2: you have a cold and you're congested.

442
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 3: Wait, so they switch.

443
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, like one is

444
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: dominant for a lifetime, like you're a lefty or a righty.

445
00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 3: News.

446
00:21:58,560 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 4: No, No, over the course of the day.

447
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 1: Switches the course of the day.

448
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 3: Yes, what Yeah, I had no idea.

449
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 4: I know, I know, there's like yes, so much you

450
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 4: don't even know about your own body. It's crazy.

451
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 3: Wow, noses are amazing.

452
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 2: Right, yes, okay, so your nostrils aren't just redundant, they're

453
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,439
Speaker 2: actually like, you know, tag teaming each other. Maybe that

454
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 2: they're still redundant, but like they're working together to accomplish

455
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 2: a goal, and having two of them is helpful. But okay,

456
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: So say you wanted to have two mouths and two

457
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 2: digestive tracts and ani to complete the loop. One of

458
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 2: the reasons we have such long stretches of digestive tract

459
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 2: is that you have all of this surface area, and

460
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 2: across that surface area, nutrients and stuff are being absorbed

461
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 2: out of your digestive tract and into the rest of

462
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: your body. So the more surface area you have, the

463
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 2: better job your body can do of like processing the

464
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: food that you eat. So if you were to have

465
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: two separate digestive tracts, like maybe in the middle of

466
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 2: each one of your cheeks you had a mouth and

467
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,239
Speaker 2: that sounds pretty freaky now, and you had you know,

468
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: two butts or something, each one of those tracks would

469
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 2: probably have to have less surface area in order for

470
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 2: you to have enough space to fit everything in there.

471
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 2: So that's probably not a more efficient system, and so

472
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 2: I don't think it would necessarily be a better system

473
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: to have two sets of digestive tracks. If you add

474
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 2: two hearts and they were connected to the same circulatory system,

475
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: you'd have to be very careful about coordinating because if

476
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: you weren't coordinating, you could end up having very high

477
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: blood pressure, or you could end up having, you know,

478
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: problems with blood like pooling in some areas, depending on

479
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: how the hearts are pumping together. And so, even though

480
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 2: it would be super cool to be kind of like

481
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 2: doctor who, you would have to worry about if your

482
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 2: hearts are coordinating well enough. And so in order for

483
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 2: that to work, you'd have to have completely separate vasculature,

484
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 2: and that might get complicated. And if one heart fails,

485
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: maybe you're still in as much trouble because now everything's

486
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: not getting enough blood, it's getting half as much blood

487
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 2: as it needed. So it's not necessarily clear that having

488
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: two of those organs would be beneficial when I think

489
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 2: through it.

490
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: But what do you think, Well, the thing I think

491
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: about is lungs. I feel like we're so susceptible to

492
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: choking on something. If you had like two different breeding tubes,

493
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: then it'd be like, no big deal if you had

494
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: a chunk of steaks stuck in one all right, it

495
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't be like you're going to die within minutes. It

496
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: seems like it would relieve a lot of the emergency

497
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: status of breeding.

498
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 2: I don't have a good answer for that. That is

499
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 2: a good point. That does seem that's a choke point.

500
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go.

501
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 4: I'm done.

502
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: But maybe it's complicated and expensive and maybe it's not

503
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: enough of a benefit to make it worth it.

504
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

505
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 2: I mean some of this stuff also might just be constraints,

506
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 2: like you know, there's not enough space, or it would

507
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 2: be difficult from an evolutionary perspective to get two of

508
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: them in there. I didn't come up with like a

509
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 2: super satisfactory answer for why. I mean, like, you know,

510
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: so many of us at this point die from like

511
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 2: heart issues when we get old. Yeah, maybe it would

512
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: be great if we had a backup or like one

513
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 2: we didn't use until we turn sixty and then that

514
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 2: one kicked in or something.

515
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: And well we do have like a whole second set

516
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: of teeth that come in after you know, fifteen years

517
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: or so, which is like super weird if you think

518
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: about it, it'd be amazing if we had like a

519
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: backup heart that came in when you were fifty. Yeah,

520
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 1: and it was like, all right, let's toss out the

521
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: old one and you know, get an upgrade.

522
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: That would be amazing. Let's do that now.

523
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's let's talk to evolution about that.

524
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: But you know, I guess the problem is that by

525
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 2: the time most of us are sixty and our hearts

526
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: are starting to go, we are probably post reproduction or

527
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: you know, post reproductive age, and I guess evolutionary pressure

528
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: is probably not selecting for us to have new hearts

529
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: at that point. But anyway, I didn't really find a

530
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: super satisfactory answer, to be honest, But hopefully there's been

531
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 2: some interesting information here. And I can't find another good

532
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 2: connection to butts to end with here. I am so sorry.

533
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: Well, I think the challenge here with biology is that

534
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: we can never really know because it's sort of asking

535
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: a meta question, you know, it's asking like, hey, if

536
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: you ran the Earth as an experiment a million times,

537
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: how often would you end up with this configuration? Is

538
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: the result of like some random cosmic ray which ended

539
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: us down this path, which is unusual or is this

540
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: like really the only efficient way to do it? And

541
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: you're going to end up with this in most of

542
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: those Earth simulations, And that's definitely a question we can't

543
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: answer until, you know, we slip into the black hole,

544
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: come out the white hole on the other end, and

545
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: meet some aliens and discover, oh, look, they do have

546
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: seventeen butts, and it turns out that we are weird

547
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: being in the like unious part.

548
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 3: Of the universe.

549
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 2: You did such a nice job wrapping that up, and

550
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to go ahead and mess it up by

551
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: continuing this conversation a little bit longer. And so, you know,

552
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: I feel like in so many depictions of aliens they're

553
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: kind of like octopuses, which made me wonder.

554
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 4: You know, octopuses have three hearts.

555
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 2: Maybe we would have three hearts if it was like

556
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: the octopus lineage that had moved on to land.

557
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 4: And what would that be like? I don't know.

558
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: And so anyway, now that I've gotten us off track

559
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: after Daniel's beautiful segue, let's go ahead and find out

560
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: if we answered the question.

561
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 7: Thanks for the answer, Daniel and Kelly appreciate it makes sense.

562
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 7: Body symmetry, efficiency of organs, and I guess with two

563
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 7: eyes two ears, you know, back in the planes of

564
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 7: Africa and where we came from, keeping away from predators

565
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 7: and finding prey. The stereolocation certainly held. I will now

566
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 7: run and check and see which one of my nostrils

567
00:27:30,680 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 7: is most dominant. Love the show, Thanks.

568
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 4: All right.

569
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: I always personally love it when we get questions, either

570
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: directly from kids or from kids through their parents. And

571
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: so today we have a question from Andy and jos

572
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 2: So let's go ahead and hear it.

573
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 6: Hi there, Daniel and Kelly. My son woke up the

574
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 6: other morning and he had a new theory about how

575
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 6: the universe might end. His theory is that there are

576
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 6: many different bubble universes and they're all moving around inside

577
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 6: one big, greater universe. They drew a lovely diagram showing

578
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 6: all the bubble universes with a little plus and minus

579
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 6: next to it to demonstrate we don't know how many

580
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 6: there are. The theory goes that the bubble universes are

581
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 6: drawn together by gravity and pushed apart by dark energy,

582
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 6: so they all perhaps come together at the edge of

583
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 6: the greater universe and then burst. The greater universes edge

584
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 6: and destroy the whole multiverse. Our questions are like this,

585
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 6: Could this be the nature of our universe? Could science

586
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 6: ever know? If this was the nature of our universe?

587
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 6: Could gravity interact with other universes outside our small bubble universes,

588
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 6: perhaps by traveling through extra dimensions? Thanks very much for

589
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 6: any time you can spend on this question on your podcast.

590
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 6: Look forward to hearing any thoughts you have.

591
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: It is wonderful to know that kids are out there

592
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: thinking about how the universe works and how it might work,

593
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: and crazy ideas about explaining it and understanding it. I

594
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: love that these kinds of topics tackle children, and to me,

595
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: that's why this science is so exciting. It's because it

596
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: connects with things we've always wanted to know, basic questions

597
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: we've been asking about the universe since we were kids

598
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: and since humans were humans.

599
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: Can I tell you a quick story, Yeah, yep. My

600
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: daughter the other day was like, hey, mom, can.

601
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 4: Animals communicate with each other?

602
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: Like we can't communicate to dogs, but can you know,

603
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: like one bird communicate to another bird?

604
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 4: And I was like, I don't know.

605
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: And then I was listening to this book and they

606
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: were explaining that actually birds and squirrels and a couple

607
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: other different kinds of species have calls that they can

608
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: recognize like across these species boundaries that tell each other, hey,

609
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 2: there's an aerial predator or there's a predatory snake on

610
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: the ground, and so they can like actually convey pretty

611
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: complicated information about not only there is a risk, but

612
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: what kind of risk it is from like you.

613
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 4: Know, birds to mammals.

614
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: And the answer was yes, And I think we only

615
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: figured this out, you know, like not yesterday, but like

616
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: not that recently, which makes me feel like, I don't know,

617
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 2: maybe we should bring kids into like ecology departments and

618
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: be like just like think thoughts at us and we'll

619
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: go check some of it out. You know, they should

620
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: do the same thing to physics departments and see what

621
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: we find out.

622
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,239
Speaker 1: They definitely should, And that's exciting to think that like

623
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: squirrels and birds and dogs are talking to each other.

624
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: But it's also a bit of a bummer. I mean, basically,

625
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: there's like an Earth animal group chat and we are

626
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: not included.

627
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: Okay, but one we're starting to decipher it so we

628
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: know what they're talking about. And two, like some of

629
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: it is eavesdropping, Like I don't necessarily know that the

630
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 2: birds want the squirrels to know, and so that makes

631
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: it a little bit less exciting.

632
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 4: And the messages are pretty straightforward. It's not like.

633
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: Did you see what Kelly was wearing yesterday?

634
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 4: Ha ha?

635
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: What ad we You don't think they're roasting us on

636
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: the group chat?

637
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: I mean they might be or like, oh the acorn

638
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: cap on your head.

639
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 4: Listen, it's really cute. You look really nice in that

640
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 4: head Like. I don't think it's you know, it's like

641
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 4: survival things.

642
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: It's not too subtle, probably, but still it's awesome that

643
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: like they are sort of paying attention to each other

644
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: and communicating in that way.

645
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: All right, well, you know what, Kelly, there was no

646
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: contest already, but I think you just cinched yourself for

647
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: the award for twenty twenty five, getting us the most

648
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: Off Track Podcast award.

649
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, well you know what, Daniel, we are.

650
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: We have one question left and we're only thirty four

651
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: minutes in, so I thought we could take a bit

652
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: of ad tour.

653
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: So let's veer back from what Dogs and Square are

654
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: saying about us and think about Joss's question about bubble

655
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: universes that could be moving around and drawn together by

656
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: gravity and pushed apart, and what's going on there. So

657
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: these are fascinating ideas, Jos, and they connect with real

658
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: ideas in cosmology. I mean, the concept of a bubble

659
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: universe is something we have in real physics cosmology. It's

660
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: a sort of proto idea that's not improven but is

661
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: taken pretty seriously. And the idea is to try to

662
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: explain where the Big Bang came from. You know, the

663
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: Big Bang says we had a hot, dense state about

664
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: thirteen point eight billion years ago which expanded and cooled.

665
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't a dot of matter exploding into empty space.

666
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: But the Big Bang doesn't tell us where that hot

667
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: dance matter came from. It doesn't explain it at all.

668
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: And there's lots of different theories, and one of them

669
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: is that that matter came from some earlier kind of stuff,

670
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: something we call inflationary matter. So imagine now a universe

671
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: filled with some weird inflationary matter, and this stuff expands

672
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: super duper rapidly, you know, like my factors of ten

673
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: to the thirty every ten to the minus twenty seconds.

674
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: Crazy expansion. But occasionally some of it decays. The way

675
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: like some particles can turn into other particles. This inflationary

676
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: matter turned into normal matter and created like a little

677
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: bubble of hot dense stuff. Now this doesn't really answer

678
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: the question of where did that hot dense matter come from.

679
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: It just sort of kicks it down the road and says,

680
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 1: maybe it came from some weird inflationary matter. Where did

681
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: that come from? We don't know. But in this picture,

682
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: you have like a universe filled with this inflationary matter,

683
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: and then these little bubbles of normal matter, these little pockets.

684
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: So our universe could be like one little bubble among

685
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: this vast landscape of bubbles.

686
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 2: Okay, so you've got these ever growing bubbles that are giant,

687
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 2: and then you've got some bubbles. They get big, and

688
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: then they stop getting big, but they get really hot,

689
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: and so then wouldn't they eventually get like swallowed up

690
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: by the other bubbles.

691
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 3: No, the bubbles are our universe.

692
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: So you have like a landscape that's just filled with

693
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: this inflationary matter that's expanding. Its not bubbles, just like

694
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: the whole universe is expanding and filled with this stuff,

695
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: and then some pockets of it turn into normal matter.

696
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: So instead of having a universe just filled with inflationary matter.

697
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: You have these little pockets of normal matter, but between

698
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: them is still inflationary matter expanding super rapidly. So like

699
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: we are in one of those little bubbles and there's

700
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: another one over there, but between us and that other

701
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: universe is more of this inflationary matter that's expanding like crazy,

702
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: and so that other bubble gets further and further away

703
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: from us every nanosecond.

704
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 4: Okay, so the bubbles are filled with little things inside

705
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 4: of them.

706
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, our universe is one of those bubbles.

707
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 4: Oka, Yeah, got it.

708
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: So this is an attempt to explain some things about

709
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: the early universe we don't understand, and there's a whole

710
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: theory about this inflation. But it creates the idea of

711
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: bubble universes. And it's true that the bubble universes might

712
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: be pulled together by gravity, Like we have stuff. The

713
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: other bubble universe has stuff, but it's going to be

714
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: totally overwhelmed, totally dominated by the inflation between them. Like

715
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: the inflation is so quick it's hard to even really

716
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: wrap your mind around the scale here, Like blowing up

717
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: by a factor of ten to the thirty means like

718
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: taking a grain of sand and turning it into a

719
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: star and doing that every ten to the minus twenty seconds.

720
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: It's just the numbers are incredible and so gravity is

721
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: going to be definitely overwhelmed by that. So you do

722
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: have these bubbles, but they're just getting further and further

723
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: apart from each other because of this incredible, intense, constant inflation.

724
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: Okay, so we know that the universe is expanding, and

725
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: that would be would that be consistent with what is

726
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: happening with the bubbles.

727
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's lots of different kinds of expansion going

728
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: on here, which is a little hard to keep track of.

729
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: There's the expansion we call the Big Bang, where you

730
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: have a hot, dense state and then the universe got

731
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: bigger and colder and more dilute. And it's something we

732
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: know and very well established and we've measured and we've

733
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: seen and we've studied. Of course, there's still questions about it.

734
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: And that's one kind of expansion, and that's even accelerating

735
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: because of dark energy. So that's our bubble getting bigger

736
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: and more dilute. Then there's the inflationary expansion which is

737
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: happening between the bubbles, which is much more dramatic and

738
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 1: much more powerful, and so Josh was asking about whether

739
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: these bubble universes could be drawn together by gravity and

740
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: pushed apart by dark energy until they come to the

741
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: edge of a greater universe and destroy the whole multiverse.

742
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: Love the dramatic ending to Jos's story. So we don't

743
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: know if there is an edge to the greater universe.

744
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: It could be that this landscape filled with inflationary matter

745
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: then dotted with these bubble universes. It could be that

746
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: that goes on forever, that it's infinite, right, that there

747
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:48,479
Speaker 1: is no.

748
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 3: Edge to it at all. We don't know.

749
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: Another possibility is that it's finite, that it's like wraps

750
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: around on itself, the way like the surface of a

751
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: sphere does. If the universe has two dimensions, but universe

752
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: has more than two dimensions, you have to imagine like

753
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 1: the three D surface of a four dimensional sphere being

754
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: closed on itself. So we don't know if that larger

755
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: space is finite or infinite, and it's possible that we

756
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: might never know because it's so big and it's so

757
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: rapidly accelerating and expanding, that information just leaves our cosmic horizon,

758
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, the way that even inside our universe, the

759
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: expansion is happening so fast that there are parts of

760
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: it we will never see, because the expansion between us

761
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: and those parts of the universe is happening so fast

762
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: that light from that part of the universe will never

763
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: reach us, like a photon shot out by some of

764
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: the most distant galaxies will never get here because space

765
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: between us and it is expanding so fast. And so

766
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: in the same way, if there is an edge to

767
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: the inflationary eternal universe, we might not ever know, because

768
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: it's sort of beyond our ability to probe. The speed

769
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: of light really limits what fraction of the universe we

770
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: can ever study. So we don't know if there's an

771
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: edge to this larger universe, and we don't know if

772
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: we could ever know. What we can do is look

773
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 1: to see if these bubbles ever collide, like we think

774
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: in principle they shouldn't because the material between them is

775
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: expanding so fast. But you could occasionally, if there are

776
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: lots of these things, get them bumping into each other

777
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: sort of by chance, and people have looked for this.

778
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 1: If that happened, you would expect to see like an

779
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: imprint in the sky and the pattern of stars, it

780
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't look quite as random and smooth out as it does.

781
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: You would see like basically a big dent somewhere, and

782
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: we've looked for that and we haven't seen it. So

783
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: there's no evidence that our bubble universe has collided with

784
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: any other bubble universes so far.

785
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 2: So if you had to like put a probability on

786
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: your thoughts that the bubble universe theory is a valid theory,

787
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: a valid explanation, how likely do you think the bubble

788
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: universe thing is is a good explanation.

789
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a good word hypothesis. It's like an

790
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: exploration of what might be going on out there. We

791
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: can't really evaluate it without having any data, you know,

792
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: because there could always just be a better idea somebody had.

793
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: This is the problem with thinking about things that you

794
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: can't check in the universe. And I don't mean to

795
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: say that it's not scientific. I'm not a big fan

796
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: of like drawing arbitrary dotted lines and saying this is science.

797
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 3: That's not science.

798
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: Lots of things that you can't immediately test are still

799
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: science because they eventually contribute to our understanding of the

800
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: universe somehow, like all of mathematics. For example, you know

801
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: euclid developed his geometry and that it was crucial to

802
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: understanding a lot of the universe, and other folks developed

803
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: non Euclidean geometry not because they cared about the universe.

804
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 1: They were just nerds thinking about stuff, and that turned

805
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: out to also be crucial. So I think all of

806
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: it is scientific, but I don't think we can assign

807
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: numbers to like the probability that we're in a bubble universe,

808
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: because there's a gazillion other ideas out there and we

809
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: don't know how to weigh them against each other without

810
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: being able to take some measurements the universe. Nature is

811
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: the ultimate arbiter of these theories, right. Your theory can

812
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: be beautiful, it can be elegant, it can be amazing.

813
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: It can also just be wrong, and so we need

814
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: to sort of consult with nature, and we don't have

815
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: a method to do that because we can't see outside

816
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: our universe. So it might be that somebody in the

817
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: future comes up with a really clever way to test

818
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: these ideas. Never rule out future smart people like the

819
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: young Joss, But it might be that we never know,

820
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: and that's sort of frustrating.

821
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 2: Well, maybe it's comforting because it means we're unlikely to

822
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: be destroyed by these bubble universes. But I guess just

823
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: because we can't measure it doesn't mean it's not going

824
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 2: to result in our impending dual.

825
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: But there are ways that bubbles could destroy our universe,

826
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: not from other bubbles interacting with it or bouncing in it,

827
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: but from our universe changing state. You know, the state

828
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: of our universe where we have all of these fields

829
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: and some of them, like the Higgs field, have energy

830
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: stuck in them.

831
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 3: We don't know how stable.

832
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 1: That is, and it's possible that like some arrant particle

833
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: physicists doing an experiment sort of pushes the universe out

834
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: of its unstable state and collapses the Higgs field down

835
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: to lower energy, which would change like the masses of

836
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: all the particles and chemistry would be totally different in

837
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: life as we know. It would be impossible, and all

838
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: atoms would fly apart because electrons would lose their mass.

839
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: And if this happened, it would happen at one location

840
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: and then in a bubble moving outwards at the speed

841
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: of light, and so that eventually would take over the

842
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: whole universe and convert everything into this sort of new

843
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: kind of physics. This is the Higgs field collapse. So

844
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: that's the opposite of bubbles like bumping into each other

845
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: and destroying the universe. But it is a bubble from

846
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: within our universe, which wouldn't destroy it, but it would

847
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: change life fundamentally.

848
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 2: You are such a ray of sunshine. Do you think

849
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: physicists is the field that would be like most likely

850
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 2: to accidentally just story humanity?

851
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: Wow?

852
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: I think physicists are probably most likely to destroy the planet,

853
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: But I think destroy humanity. You got viruses, and you've

854
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: got pollution, and you got all sorts of stuff. So

855
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: I think chemists and biologists are in the running for,

856
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: you know, killing off humanity. Yea, all right, Well, I

857
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: hope that Joss is out there thinking about ways to

858
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: save humanity from the ravages of physics and biology and chemistry,

859
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 1: and that everything we've taught him contributes to the positive,

860
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: harmonious future of humanity. Thanks to the question, Andy and Joss,

861
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: and let us know if we answered it. Follow up

862
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: questions always welcome.

863
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 9: Thank you for taking the science and twerk questions. I

864
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 9: was exciting to hear you talking about my ideas on

865
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 9: the pollodcast. Assuming the Higgs serials get us first, I've said,

866
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 9: did any things as I think of them?

867
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 3: Thank you Daniel and Kelly all right?

868
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody who writes to us with your questions

869
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: or comments or feedback or cat pictures. Loved all the

870
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 1: cat pictures we got week.

871
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:01,479
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.

872
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: We love hearing from you, We love knowing that you're

873
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: out there, and we hope that we contribute positively to

874
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: your day.

875
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you so much for writing. It means so

876
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 4: much to us.

877
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is produced by iHeartRadio.

878
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 4: We would love to hear from you.

879
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 3: We really would.

880
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: We want to know what questions you have about this

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00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: Extraordinary Universe.

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00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: We want to know your thoughts on recent shows, suggestions

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00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: for future shows.

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00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 4: If you contact us, we will get back to you.

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00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 3: We really mean it.

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00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: We answer every message. Email us at Questions at Danielankelly.

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00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: Dot org, or you can find us on social media.

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00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: We have accounts on x, Instagram, Blue Sky and on

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Speaker 2: all of those platforms.

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00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 4: You can find us at D and K Universe.

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Speaker 3: Don't be shy write to us