Speaker 1: I miss the green.
Speaker 2: For example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball
Speaker 2: in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find
Speaker 2: my ball in a bright egg Friday egg, the dreaded
Speaker 2: Frida egg, fridagg egg egg Frida egg bride egg Lie,
Speaker 2: I'm about ready to run off of the course.
Speaker 1: To Northwood is so sick?
Speaker 2: Yeah? What? So we went on that trip Lake mercaid
Speaker 2: S F Golf, Cal Club, Olympic Club, Northwood Meadow Club,
Speaker 2: Pasa Tempo and PCC Dunes and pack Grove. What overall thoughts.
Speaker 3: I would just say, I think I didn't give San
Speaker 3: Francisco area enough credit for how amazing the golf is.
Speaker 3: Like it's kind of a power player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree, especially because like we didn't hit
Speaker 2: up a few, like we played the nine hole course
Speaker 2: at Olympic Club, but then we also didn't hit up
Speaker 2: Claremont Club or you know some of the other you know, Prestidio,
Speaker 2: I kind of wanted to see after I heard the
Speaker 2: history of it, Glenn Eagle, Glen Eagle, you know, we
Speaker 2: walked around Sharp Park. What'd you think of that?
Speaker 3: I think it's another one that I was kind of
Speaker 3: blown away when you're driving over the hill to go.
Speaker 1: Check that place out.
Speaker 3: You're just like kind of blown away with that could
Speaker 3: be like a public golf course, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: with the setting that it's in right by the beach
Speaker 3: and everything like that, Like it could be so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a shame that it is
Speaker 2: in the current shape it is, and it's it's I mean,
Speaker 2: there's like a cool little like public tour you could
Speaker 2: do in San Francisco for people that wanted to like
Speaker 2: get kind of deep on mackenzie because you could go
Speaker 2: do Northwood in Sharp Park, which are kind of you know,
Speaker 2: abused Mackenzie's, but then you could go play Pasa Tiempo,
Speaker 2: which is unreal, and then you could you could tie
Speaker 2: it in and play Pack Grove And I think the
Speaker 2: Green Speeds would be less than three hundred bucks to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't know about you, but if
Speaker 3: you wanted to see like what having good bones is,
Speaker 3: I think like Northwood is like the place you would
Speaker 3: want to see of any course that I've ever been to,
Speaker 3: with kind of the hollowed out bunkers that are grassed
Speaker 3: over and you can see like where the greens extended to.
Speaker 3: I mean it's very easy to see how good that
Speaker 3: place was without being like super into golf course architecture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, like I think one of the things
Speaker 2: people ask me all the time, like how can you
Speaker 2: figure out like good bones is like looking at like
Speaker 2: greens and seeing you know, there's always like a pad
Speaker 2: that you can see with a green, you know where
Speaker 2: it used to extend to. So start to look at
Speaker 2: the corners of the greens you're playing and look to
Speaker 2: see like is there a distinct pad that this green
Speaker 2: sits on? And usually, you know, at most municipal golf
Speaker 2: courses at least those things have shrunk so much over
Speaker 2: the years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in talking to a couple of architects. They
Speaker 2: you know, people say it it wouldn't take much to
Speaker 2: get those those bunkers dug out and it then playable.
Speaker 2: But it was interesting talking to the guy the pro
Speaker 2: shop afterwards and how he wasn't sure if people would
Speaker 2: like that. I kind of was miffed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was pretty weird hearing that guy say that,
Speaker 1: because I think golf is just I always go back.
Speaker 3: To this, but golf is just one of those things
Speaker 3: where there's always going to be people that aren't great
Speaker 3: at golf, so it's hard to always cater to someone
Speaker 3: like that, saying like, well, if I dig this bunker
Speaker 3: out here like now, guys are going to be hitting
Speaker 3: into it and you know they're not going to enjoy
Speaker 3: their round as much. But then there's the flip side
Speaker 3: of that that there's people kind of like us out
Speaker 3: there that would love to see it.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a I was kind of blown
Speaker 1: away when he said that too.
Speaker 2: There's people that suck at everything, like every sport, it's
Speaker 2: okay that people suck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: I think part of what makes golf so special is
Speaker 2: that people suck, you know, and you're never really conquering
Speaker 2: it no matter what level you play it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like everyone sucks at you know at times.
Speaker 3: There's obviously people that are worse more often, but it's like,
Speaker 3: I mean I've had times where I suck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suck more often than I'm good. So let's
Speaker 2: kind of dive into their favorite stretches of holes. So
Speaker 2: I had you and I did the same thing. Pick
Speaker 2: out the best three hole stretches, so the best are
Speaker 2: not the best, Our favorite one through three, our favorite
Speaker 2: four through six, Favorite seven through nine, ten through twelve,
Speaker 2: thirteen through fifteen, and sixteen through eighteen. And with that
Speaker 2: we're going to count Northwood and the back nine at
Speaker 2: Pacific Grove as eighteenth ZB. You wanna who's your one
Speaker 2: through three?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I kicked the round off with SF club.
Speaker 4: One through three megawith.
Speaker 3: Super super whipped. Nice way to start out the round.
Speaker 3: It's like you're probably not going to miss that fair
Speaker 3: way too often, and if you hit a good drive,
Speaker 3: you kind of have the opportunity to get the round
Speaker 3: started off with a with a birdie.
Speaker 2: So the rules out there are with the no cell phone,
Speaker 2: no yardage finder. It's kind of crazy, you're going back
Speaker 2: in time a little bit. But like that's a perfect
Speaker 2: example of like not really knowing where the green was.
Speaker 2: We both missed way right there. It was the worst
Speaker 2: place you could be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That that's uh, I mean, that's something that.
Speaker 3: I wish like the Cabby would have just said, like, hey,
Speaker 3: you're you're okay to miss in that left bunker, Like
Speaker 3: that left bunker would have been and like a really
Speaker 3: easy up and down to the pin we were playing,
Speaker 3: and then the right the right side fell off so
Speaker 3: hard and we were all just so.
Speaker 1: Dead over there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just short sided down like in a gully.
Speaker 2: So I went one through three Medal Club. You know,
Speaker 2: there's something about that second hole going down with like
Speaker 2: the layered bunkers behind it, and you can see all
Speaker 2: those greens that I just loved. And then I love
Speaker 2: the third hole that I hit that sick approach shot
Speaker 2: to and birdied, and but that green, that green's awesome.
Speaker 2: I think that Metal Club is, like, it's such a
Speaker 2: cool little place there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was lucky enough to play it in a bunch
Speaker 3: of college you know, every year in college basically we
Speaker 3: had an event up there, and it's really really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what about four through six?
Speaker 3: Four through six, I went with Northwood, Oh sweet little stretch.
Speaker 3: Like the sixth hole was maybe my favorite hole on
Speaker 3: the entire trip.
Speaker 1: So I had to get that the hole in this
Speaker 1: routing somehow.
Speaker 2: Yeah that if they brought those bunkers back, we'll put
Speaker 2: we'll put the uh, your little rendering of of what
Speaker 2: it is and what you if you just filled in
Speaker 2: the bunkers that are hollowed out to show people like
Speaker 2: what we mean by good bones in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that was pretty sick. And even the
Speaker 3: four and five were really cool holes too. That fourth
Speaker 3: hole that kind of dogleg right, I mean we were
Speaker 3: playing it with the Hickory's so we got to really see,
Speaker 3: you know, what it was.
Speaker 1: And then I thought five was a really cool part.
Speaker 4: Five.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was another one with the bunkers along that
Speaker 2: right side that were gone and you could see like,
Speaker 2: oh this is this could be really cool.
Speaker 1: Sweet Green too.
Speaker 2: Oh unreal. I think it was missing like a really
Speaker 2: deep bunker on the right side. I've watched the drone
Speaker 2: fly over a couple of times.
Speaker 1: Northwood is like I like still have dreams about that place.
Speaker 4: I know, it's insane.
Speaker 2: It's funny because you know, we texted all, you know,
Speaker 2: we go on this like crazy, long, unbelievable golf trip
Speaker 2: that people would dream of, like you know, and we
Speaker 2: play Cal Club and SF and and Meadow and Pasa
Speaker 2: Tiempo NPCC, all these like you know, really well thought
Speaker 2: of golf courses that bucket listers and like the course
Speaker 2: I think we talked about the most before the trip
Speaker 2: was Northwood and then it's probably the course we talk
Speaker 2: about the most after the trip. And it's a twenty
Speaker 2: three dollars course that anybody can play.
Speaker 1: It's insane. It's like a very eye opening experience. It
Speaker 1: was so cool.
Speaker 2: I wish I could spend a couple of days out there,
Speaker 2: just keep going around and see it when it's a
Speaker 2: little when it's not winter and it's not so wet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we should scoop back out to San
Speaker 3: Francisco in the fall and see these places is a
Speaker 3: little with a little more fire in them. Maybe check
Speaker 3: out the Bohemian Grove.
Speaker 2: To see if they let usin. Yeah, that's what I
Speaker 2: was on the Golf Guide podcast and they the kid
Speaker 2: is from Northern California, and he said that the Bohemian
Speaker 2: Grove has the original drawing of Northwood, like the original plant,
Speaker 2: but they they're holding them hostage in there. You got
Speaker 2: to talk to Gary Record.
Speaker 4: Get those get those plants.
Speaker 1: Just bring him out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I got four through six at SFGC. I like
Speaker 2: that that long par three, and then I like how
Speaker 2: you've got the those part fours. Really you got to
Speaker 2: hit good golf shots on those part fours, especially the
Speaker 2: six that I love the fairway how it goes down
Speaker 2: to the left, and then that green is nasty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude's six is very very cool.
Speaker 2: It's you know, run runner up there. I'd say fourth
Speaker 2: through six at col club's pretty cool too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I had that written down and then then I put
Speaker 3: s F and then I just remembered Northwood number six
Speaker 3: and was like absolutely that's what I'm That's what I'm
Speaker 3: rolling with.
Speaker 2: So what do you got for seven through nine?
Speaker 1: Seventh through nine? I uh threw in the metal club.
Speaker 3: Some cool uh, some cool holes that are that are
Speaker 3: definitely pretty unique.
Speaker 1: I thought they were awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that little natural like creek they used for that
Speaker 2: seventh hole, it's pretty sweet. And then uh eight cool
Speaker 2: par three nine cool, par part four.
Speaker 1: Nine nine is sweet.
Speaker 3: And I think if they had the T in the
Speaker 3: right position there, I think the t, you know, they
Speaker 3: had to find yardage for that hole to get it,
Speaker 3: to get it a little longer where guys couldn't carry
Speaker 3: that those left bunkers. But if you played from like
Speaker 3: the correct angle, I think it's such a sick t shot.
Speaker 3: How those left fairway bunkers kind of just blend into
Speaker 3: the green side bunkering and it just looks like one
Speaker 3: big diagonal hazard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to hit a good drive there and
Speaker 2: then you still like if it I played there with
Speaker 2: a Hickory and I still had like a I feel
Speaker 2: like I had like a four or five iron into
Speaker 2: that green, which was Yeah, it was a beast. I
Speaker 2: went seventh through nine at Northwood. I really like that
Speaker 2: seventh hole that kind of dog likes, right, and that
Speaker 2: green you can tell is pretty cool. The par three
Speaker 2: eighth is unreal, that green. And then nine going back
Speaker 2: up I really liked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with that huge bunker that was like one hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty yards off the tee that just swallows up
Speaker 3: any golf ball that heads to it.
Speaker 1: That's not there anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that thing was like a true three
Speaker 2: shot par five back in the day too, Like I
Speaker 2: think I went Hickory Hickory Wedge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that hole was cool, full place.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: I know I keep talking about it, but I want
Speaker 3: to go back up there, like tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I almost went out to Northern California this week for something,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh man, that'd be sweet to
Speaker 2: be because I was going to have to go up
Speaker 2: to Napa and I was like, I'll be close to Northwood.
Speaker 2: I could go over there again.
Speaker 1: Abs ten through twelve.
Speaker 3: I threw in SF club again because ten was another
Speaker 3: one of my favorite holes on the trip. I thought
Speaker 3: eleven was a sweet part three, and then that twelve
Speaker 3: hole was again like I mean, I keep repeating myself,
Speaker 3: but twelve is such a sick hole.
Speaker 2: I think with just twelve it would you could put
Speaker 2: nothing holes before that and SF would still get it.
Speaker 2: So I have ten through twelve too, Like twelve might
Speaker 2: be one of the best part fours I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the entire world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so funny how we both ended up
Speaker 2: in that bunker and the Caddy was was pissed at us.
Speaker 1: I the caty was, but the Caddy was so wrong
Speaker 1: on that yard age.
Speaker 3: She was like, it's two fifty five, but it plays uphill,
Speaker 3: you know, and it played a little into the wind.
Speaker 3: Or I don't even know what he said. He said,
Speaker 3: it's two forty five, but it's the longest two forty
Speaker 3: five in the world. And I'm like, well, I can
Speaker 3: carry it to forty five, and I smoked one didn't
Speaker 3: even come close to carrying it.
Speaker 1: Then I go back home and look on Google Earth and.
Speaker 3: It was like two seventy eight, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I don't even hit it too seventy eight anywhere, let
Speaker 3: alone foggy San Francisco.
Speaker 1: So just that bad information.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you didn't carry it, and I was like, ah, yeah,
Speaker 2: probably I could probably carry it, and I hit it
Speaker 2: right into it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that whole is cool, and it's so funny because
Speaker 3: there's so much room left that it's just like you
Speaker 3: should never in a million years hit it in that bunker.
Speaker 2: But I mean that's like a perfect exam pull of
Speaker 2: a hole with like the technology thing is like if
Speaker 2: like Dustin Johnson can just carry that with like a
Speaker 2: three wood and just like the modern distance thing is like,
Speaker 2: so that hole loses like all the strategy. But if
Speaker 2: that bunker is uncarriable, they you have to make a decision.
Speaker 2: Are you playing short and giving up yardage or and
Speaker 2: having the perfect angle, or are you playing left and
Speaker 2: and taking more yardage and and have just a like
Speaker 2: kind of a blind shot.
Speaker 1: In Yeah, yeah, I really like that whole.
Speaker 2: What'd you Got? What do you Have? For thirteen through fifteen?
Speaker 3: H thirteen through fifteen I went with Posse Tiampo SAMs.
Speaker 3: Yeah really yeah, I really like thirteen that part man, Like,
Speaker 3: I hope you I help people have watched like the
Speaker 3: drone video of that hole that you have. It's like
Speaker 3: that that green complex is just out of control, so
Speaker 3: beautiful and so cool. And then fourteen very cool hole
Speaker 3: with the like natural looking chasm, you know, the big
Speaker 3: dip in the fair way. Yeah, and then fifteen is
Speaker 3: that sick little part three.
Speaker 2: I haven't posted any drone video of that yet, so
Speaker 2: maybe I'll try and get something done for the spot.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that I mean that stretch a hole. It's
Speaker 2: like you got a great risk reward par five, you
Speaker 2: got an awesome just stout Par four that's got tons
Speaker 2: of strategy, and then you got a like a little
Speaker 2: nasty par three. So I'm in the same boat. And
Speaker 2: then what are you doing to close out the round?
Speaker 3: I went with cal club another cool little part three
Speaker 3: and sixteen a gettable par five and seventeen, But at
Speaker 3: the same time, you can kind of you could make
Speaker 3: bogies on both of those holes pretty easy if you
Speaker 3: hit a bad shot. Eighteen going back to the clubhouses,
Speaker 3: I thought was a pretty cool finish.
Speaker 2: I wrapped it up with pasta tempo sixteen through eighteen.
Speaker 2: I just couldn't couldn't pass up on having yeah, sixteen,
Speaker 2: and I have an happy people rag on seventeen. I
Speaker 2: kind of like really like seventeen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, when I saw when I saw the original
Speaker 3: aerials of that place without all the trees on the right,
Speaker 3: and there was this nasty set of bunkers kind of
Speaker 3: down there right where you hit your drives on the
Speaker 3: right in between ten and seventeen. Fairway, like you kind
Speaker 3: of have a better appreciation for that whole how you
Speaker 3: got to hug it up the left side so the
Speaker 3: ball doesn't roll down into that bunker, and then you know,
Speaker 3: you kind of have a better view of that grain.
Speaker 1: That's a dude.
Speaker 3: Pasta Tampa, the whole course in the back nine, everything
Speaker 3: there is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: I was looking.
Speaker 3: I was looking at the rankings the other day and
Speaker 3: Pasta Tampa is not in the top one hundred.
Speaker 1: Like I was actually offended. It's criminal, absolutely, Like that's
Speaker 1: like a top fifteen golf course in America.
Speaker 2: So I always say it could be a top fifteen
Speaker 2: if it was an exclusive club.
Speaker 1: I still think it is right now.
Speaker 2: I don't know, sick, I don't know what is it
Speaker 2: better than SF Club? No, So that's I mean, that's
Speaker 2: the I mean the way I look at Passa tempo
Speaker 2: is I think like architecturally, if you want to play
Speaker 2: a golf course, like a Golden Age golf course, it's
Speaker 2: the undisputed number one that a public can play, that
Speaker 2: the public can play. Yeah, I need to play Pinehurst
Speaker 2: number two still though.
Speaker 1: Too so Pinehurst is solid. It's good.
Speaker 2: You would you put Passo over Pinehurst?
Speaker 3: I enjoy Passa or I think it. But dude, again,
Speaker 3: I don't know. These are such hard discussions to have
Speaker 3: because they're both so good. They're both in that category
Speaker 3: that you're like, I would go play them, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean?
Speaker 2: How about our how about our experience at Pacific Growth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was like everything you don't want to have
Speaker 3: happened inside the golf shop kind of happened. I think,
Speaker 3: you know, it was kind of our fault for not
Speaker 3: I just didn't think it would be like crazy busy,
Speaker 3: but obviously like seventy five Sonny on a Saturday afternoon is.
Speaker 1: Kind of like prime time for people to go off.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we we showed up there at like three
Speaker 2: or so, and we wanted to just play the back
Speaker 2: nine and we get there and it was like packed,
Speaker 2: and the guy you know, in the shop, was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I can't get you out. So we decided to walk.
Speaker 2: And we we walk out there and like, sure.
Speaker 3: Well you've got to tell them about you got to
Speaker 3: you gotta inform them about how We were like do
Speaker 3: you think we could go just walk the back nine?
Speaker 1: And the guy was like I don't know, Like that
Speaker 1: would be tough for me to let have happen.
Speaker 3: And we were like, man, we'll be like courteous.
Speaker 1: We're not going to get in anybody's way.
Speaker 3: And he was like, ah, I guess and he really
Speaker 3: just like did not want us to be out there.
Speaker 1: He was crazy.
Speaker 2: So so we walk out and there's like a foursome
Speaker 2: on ten and which is like a nothing part three,
Speaker 2: and we like turned the corner at the green and
Speaker 2: there's like this single guy walking down the eleventh fairway
Speaker 2: towards like the green that's set into the dune and
Speaker 2: and Zach looks at me and he's like, dude, go
Speaker 2: get go get some clubs. And he runs down the
Speaker 2: fairway and I run back to the car to get
Speaker 2: the club. So how did how did the discussion go
Speaker 2: with our single?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I just kind of went up to him and he
Speaker 3: could tell he could hear me running from like fifty
Speaker 3: yards out and he looked back and you could tell
Speaker 3: he was so confused. He was like, am I in trouble?
Speaker 3: Like somebody like chasing after this kid? What's going on?
Speaker 3: And I got up to him and was like, hey man,
Speaker 3: you know my name is Zach Blair. And he's like,
Speaker 3: Zach Blair, you play on the PJ Tour And I
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, would you mind if me and a
Speaker 3: friend joined you for the back nine?
Speaker 1: And he was like, you want to join me out here?
Speaker 1: And I was like yeah, like we came.
Speaker 3: Out to roll around pat Grove for the night. And
Speaker 3: he was like, well, yeah, absolutely, you can join us.
Speaker 1: And he was so cool.
Speaker 3: He was like a perfect person you want to meet
Speaker 3: on the golf course to play with that you've never
Speaker 3: met before, you know, as complete stranger. That ended up
Speaker 3: being one of the coolest guys we played with it
Speaker 3: on the entire trip.
Speaker 2: You know, he just you could tell he got it.
Speaker 2: He got architecture, like he had like a hinch headcover.
Speaker 2: But then he was asking us questions and he found
Speaker 2: out like he worked in the bay. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I played Pacific Grove all the time when I and
Speaker 2: I think he had moved to Austin, but he was
Speaker 2: in town and played Pacific Grove a bunch and then uh,
Speaker 2: after the Yeah, after the round, he posted a picture
Speaker 2: of the exact same picture. He was taking some pictures.
Speaker 2: He like pulled the Cavalier where he took a pic
Speaker 2: of the exact same picture from three years ago and
Speaker 2: showing how much more brown it was. It's like this
Speaker 2: kind good. And then he hit hit the hickory. He
Speaker 2: caught hick he caught hick nation fever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did catch the hickory fever.
Speaker 3: I think I think we're kind of like, uh, I've
Speaker 3: got I've gotten a lot of people sick with the
Speaker 3: hick fever.
Speaker 1: It's insane.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about getting crooked with like Louisville Golf getting.
Speaker 2: You know, I might start selling hickory out of my
Speaker 2: trunk when I go places. Hey, kid, come here, let
Speaker 2: me let me so. Let me tell you about this hickory.
Speaker 2: You don't want that new Calway driver, You want hickory.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just like a whole different way to
Speaker 2: play the game. I don't really think like everybody is like, oh,
Speaker 2: it would make bad golfers so much worse. I don't
Speaker 2: really think it would.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this sounds so mean and it sounds bad,
Speaker 3: but like the people that suck, like not a.
Speaker 1: Lot of stuff helps them get that much better.
Speaker 4: So it's it's.
Speaker 1: Kind of a weird. It's a weird little topic to
Speaker 1: talk about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a touchy one, for sure.
Speaker 3: It was so funny I got. I got this one
Speaker 3: story about the Hickory's. It's like classic. So I was
Speaker 3: down at the pro member the other day at Seminole
Speaker 3: and we were at the dinner and I had this
Speaker 3: discussion with Jack Nicholas about the golf ball and he
Speaker 3: was kind.
Speaker 1: Of telling me his plan and everything.
Speaker 3: Like that, and you know, I was just kind of
Speaker 3: talking to him basically saying how some of the classic
Speaker 3: courses are kind of being dwarfed a little bit and
Speaker 3: guys can just hit it so far. And I told
Speaker 3: him that I had recently started kind of playing with
Speaker 3: Hickory's when I play casual golf, and he.
Speaker 1: Was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know how good
Speaker 1: that is or you know, anything like that. He's like
Speaker 1: I thought he would be, like, you know, because sometimes
Speaker 1: when I tell that to people. They're like, oh, man, that's.
Speaker 3: So cool that you would, you know, want to see
Speaker 3: how the you know, game was intended to be played
Speaker 3: and how these these you know, Golden Age architects kind
Speaker 3: of laid out these holes based on where people were
Speaker 3: hitting it. And he was like, yeah, yeah, I don't
Speaker 3: know much about that.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get involved with that. Let me
Speaker 1: tell you about let me tell you about my idea
Speaker 1: with the golf ball good.
Speaker 2: You've had a couple of good run ins with Jack,
Speaker 2: including the memorial hot tug.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, he's a he's kind of and him
Speaker 3: have some great some great stories. I have three really
Speaker 3: good ones. I have the hot tub story, that Hickory one.
Speaker 1: And then one time I was at the Ryder Cup
Speaker 1: dinner at his house.
Speaker 3: And it was like me and a couple guys and
Speaker 3: he was asking everybody how they played. And I had
Speaker 3: just shot eighty that day at UH at Honda. It
Speaker 3: was like so hard, the wind was blowing. I played
Speaker 3: like ship and he was like, so, how'd you play?
Speaker 3: And I was like, I shot eighty and he's like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's not good.
Speaker 1: I was like, thanks, Jack, I'm aware.
Speaker 2: The Golden Bear man. You know, he's just trying to
Speaker 2: do He's that on your level?
Speaker 1: No, No, he's it was. Those are three of my
Speaker 1: favorite stories and they all have to do with Jack Nicholas,
Speaker 1: So he's the man.
Speaker 2: Where's the where's the next Blair Wish project?
Speaker 3: I think we uh, I think we're going Boston tea
Speaker 3: party hunting.
Speaker 2: There's some any good ones there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we gotta we got a sick little trip lined
Speaker 1: up for that one. It's gonna be pretty epic.
Speaker 2: I think there's a I mean, the crazy thing about
Speaker 2: Boston is how you could find like a million scruffy
Speaker 2: little ross gems out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Boston and Long Island are both that way. Like, I
Speaker 3: feel like you could go to either of those areas
Speaker 3: and just play golf for a month at courses you've
Speaker 3: never heard of, and you would find like a ton
Speaker 3: of places.
Speaker 1: That you love.
Speaker 2: Are there any good public courses out on Long Island
Speaker 2: that are like, I know they used to have that
Speaker 2: gil Hands like tall Grass or whatever it was called,
Speaker 2: but some solar power plant took it over.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe Long Island might be in the more of
Speaker 3: the private sector, but I don't know are they Are
Speaker 3: they public in Boston.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's some. I mean, you got like the
Speaker 2: George Wright place that I guess they got the mass
Speaker 2: Am this year. But then by Catanta there's that little
Speaker 2: nine hole Marion that's George Thomas's first course, which and
Speaker 2: they still have like the Stone Walls.
Speaker 1: Sick that's my favorite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know, there's too much good golf
Speaker 2: to explore. I think that you could do the same
Speaker 2: thing for a number of cities. I think San Francisco though,
Speaker 2: if you were ranking cities, has got to be top four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are you What are you throwing in there?
Speaker 1: Are you throwing? Obviously Long Island like New York?
Speaker 4: It's true?
Speaker 2: Do you where do you delineate? Is it New York City?
Speaker 2: Is Long Island its own? Is Monterey part of San Francisco?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of.
Speaker 3: I had this discussion with this guy that writes for
Speaker 3: like the San Francisco Chronicle the other day kind of
Speaker 3: talking about that. I don't know, you gotta you gotta
Speaker 3: do some sort of like a radius, I guess, but
Speaker 3: I mean Long Island in itself. Yeah, I guess you're
Speaker 3: not calling that a big city though, So I don't know.
Speaker 3: But San Francisco, even if you're not even if you're
Speaker 3: not including Pasa or any of the Pebble Beach Monterey scene,
Speaker 3: like San Francisco is pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think you got to have New
Speaker 2: York and Philly one two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're counting you're counting Long Island for New
Speaker 3: York obviously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna count Pine Valley for Philly too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like twenty minutes away, so.
Speaker 2: And then and then I think you could count Pasa
Speaker 2: but not Monterey. Monterey is like two hours from San Francisco.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3: And are we throwing Are we throwing Phoenix Scottsdale in
Speaker 3: there or no?
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding not not. I think Chicago would be.
Speaker 2: So I always go back and forth with Chicago because
Speaker 2: I feel like after Chicago Golf and Short Acres, we've
Speaker 2: got like a massive drop off and like, you know,
Speaker 2: Old ELM's really good, so like but like then it's
Speaker 2: kind of like you're kind of like, uh, would it
Speaker 2: be better than like if you had Pasta Tiempo in
Speaker 2: with San Francisco, Like if you have cal Club SF
Speaker 2: Pasa Tiempo Olympic Club, like Olympic club kind of.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I haven't played it yet, so I've passed judgment on it.
Speaker 3: I think Olympic is a little better than than we're
Speaker 3: than you think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do too.
Speaker 3: I think that the bunkering that they did there has
Speaker 3: kind of like made it probably too hard and the
Speaker 3: bunkers are just diabolical now.
Speaker 1: But I think it's pretty good.
Speaker 2: So I would I would say that San Francisco it
Speaker 2: takes the cake over Chicago. Chicago's great because of the depth.
Speaker 2: You know, like are from ten to twenty five. We're
Speaker 2: like really.
Speaker 1: Strong, but you have a super deep bench.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're like the team that you know is really
Speaker 2: good in the NBA. But then they get then the playoffs,
Speaker 2: the bench gets shorter, you know, and only seven guys
Speaker 2: play and we get just we get smoked, annihilated. It's
Speaker 2: like the bulls.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this right here.
Speaker 3: What is a good like what's a good cutoff for
Speaker 3: number of great courses you have to have to be
Speaker 3: in this conversation, would you say it's like five or
Speaker 3: or like seven?
Speaker 2: I think you have to have you have to have
Speaker 2: some top end firepower, but you still have to have
Speaker 2: some depth, Like you can't like your number ten course
Speaker 2: can't be like a dump. Not a dump.
Speaker 3: Talk about this right now, really quick, just because this
Speaker 3: is a good topic to talk about.
Speaker 1: So do you want to talk about this?
Speaker 4: This is something good.
Speaker 1: You can cut this out or whatever, but I think
Speaker 1: this is this is good to talk about.
Speaker 2: I think this is I think making a you know,
Speaker 2: this could be the next iteration of logo madness.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: So what we're talking about here is we're gonna go
Speaker 3: New York, Philly, San Francisco, and I think if this
Speaker 3: is I think Boston has to be in this discussion.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The more I'm the more I'm thinking about it. So
Speaker 1: we'll do.
Speaker 2: Those four, Chicago's, five.
Speaker 1: Boston, and then shy Town.
Speaker 2: Then like a perfect example is LA where you have
Speaker 2: high end, top top tier golf, but then you've got
Speaker 2: to fall off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so La is like the opposite of Chicago, the
Speaker 3: complete opposite. It's got like some first round picks, lottery picks,
Speaker 3: but then it just has no bench at all. Right,
Speaker 3: we'll talk about l A just for a sec too.
Speaker 3: So if we're going n y C, we're.
Speaker 1: Obviously going like like shinny.
Speaker 2: National Maidstone, winged.
Speaker 1: Foot Maidstone, winged foot.
Speaker 2: Quaker Ridge, Quaker, Sabonic, Friar's Head.
Speaker 1: Savanna Friars. I mean, I mean.
Speaker 4: Fishers, Fishers right there.
Speaker 1: So that's two four eight, that's eight piping rock, best
Speaker 1: best page, I mean, and it's just silly, Beth, what
Speaker 1: I mean, you could just like I think you could
Speaker 1: go forever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're just they're just a clear number one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have Philly you're talking. You got like Pev Marion,
Speaker 3: Marion Ironomic.
Speaker 2: Philly Cricket, Philly Cricket, Golf Mills, Manny's Rolling Green, like
Speaker 2: you've got like this stretch of unreal Flynn Courses. You've
Speaker 2: got Rolling Green, You've got Philly Country Club, You've got
Speaker 2: Huntington Valley, you've got Lancaster. If you you know it's
Speaker 2: it'd be about as far as like the Hampton's would be.
Speaker 2: And then you've got uh, You've got then you've got
Speaker 2: like a bunch of moderns too. You've got cool like
Speaker 2: I really like apple Brook, which is a hand and
Speaker 2: you've got Stonewall. I mean, you've got a ton there.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch.
Speaker 1: So Philly is like a clear number two.
Speaker 3: I think it's got it's probably got as much top
Speaker 3: end firepower.
Speaker 1: As New York.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.
Speaker 3: TV Marion Ironomic Philly Cricket. Like that's four solid ones
Speaker 3: and you've got Shinny National.
Speaker 2: New York's got like ten, and and Philly's got four.
Speaker 1: New York's like like an all star squad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you put if you put Chicago, Philly and
Speaker 2: Boston together, it would be like New York almost.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Phillies New York's like a beast.
Speaker 2: Maybe New York versus the all of California would be
Speaker 2: a good matchup.
Speaker 1: New York versus the world, New York versus everybody.
Speaker 2: And we're just like playing into New Yorker's ego right now.
Speaker 1: And then oh shit, like falseester all.
Speaker 2: I don't know if he can it can? Does that count?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It's in New Jersey, but I mean it's like just
Speaker 3: as close. I think you do, like the New York
Speaker 3: metro area, right, I mean that's the same thing.
Speaker 2: It's in the met right.
Speaker 1: Going to add TV to Philly.
Speaker 2: Maybe it should be based off of the Golf Association.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, like the METS, the and the Northern California
Speaker 2: Golf Association. This is we might have to do more
Speaker 2: thought into this. This could be a whole article.
Speaker 3: Slash discussion is exactly well, we might as well finish
Speaker 3: this off right now.
Speaker 1: SF, you go, SF Club.
Speaker 2: Cal Club, Cal Club, Meadow Club.
Speaker 1: Pasa Meadow, Pasa Olympic.
Speaker 2: Claremont.
Speaker 1: I think Claremont.
Speaker 3: I think it's sick, but I think we're like kind
Speaker 3: of starting to reach Maybe.
Speaker 2: What if you what if you include Cypress Pebble, Like,
Speaker 2: where does it? Does that get it up to Philly level.
Speaker 1: Pebble?
Speaker 2: I think it might pass Philly.
Speaker 3: Then NPCC times two, Spyglass if you're gonna.
Speaker 2: If you're into that thing kind of stuff, if that's
Speaker 2: your thing.
Speaker 1: I can't believe how many people I talk to are
Speaker 1: in love with that place. I just I don't get it.
Speaker 3: There's some cool holes out there, yeah, like you know,
Speaker 3: two three four five or sick, But then it's just
Speaker 3: like repeatedly getting hit in the face like the rest
Speaker 3: of the day, just like uphill Part four, Uphill.
Speaker 1: Part four, Uphill part four, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Three two four.
Speaker 3: Nine, Like you're in the ten area. You know, you're
Speaker 3: in that ten course range as well for SF.
Speaker 2: So SF can compete if you include Monterey with with Philly,
Speaker 2: I think Boston would be an interesting one.
Speaker 1: It's like Boston, you're gonna.
Speaker 2: Go like Essex Country Club, Myopia, Old Sandwich Club.
Speaker 1: Old Sandwich, Boston Golf Club.
Speaker 2: What else Eastward? Ho is it? Hans does like Sanctity Count.
Speaker 3: I mean, let's leave those out right now and see
Speaker 3: if we need help. Like I mean, Newport's like an
Speaker 3: hour further down, but like Wanta Moist, it's like thirty
Speaker 3: five forty minutes, you know what I mean, miss cut Yeah,
Speaker 3: oh gosh, that is so sick.
Speaker 2: I mean if in each of them kind of have
Speaker 2: their own unique aspect, like I think like one of
Speaker 2: the things is you could like I think Boston has
Speaker 2: more quirky fun courses than New York does.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, like New York is very stout
Speaker 3: championship like golf. Boston, I think you're gonna see more,
Speaker 3: like you said, kind of little quirky designs that are
Speaker 3: really fun and have like a lot of uh like
Speaker 3: very sporty golf courses. And then Philly, I think you're
Speaker 3: kind of gonna get that mix.
Speaker 1: Of both of them.
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 3: And then SF I think is more along the lines
Speaker 3: of h New York, like more like championship tests, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of a mixture too. I think
Speaker 2: it's more like the the the Philly model.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like a little quirk got some championship, you know.
Speaker 2: So I talked to Oberholser about this is in like
Speaker 2: with this whole kind of the games change. Everybody's you know,
Speaker 2: golf better, like golfers are better now, you know, with technology,
Speaker 2: with training, with you know, track man. So like when
Speaker 2: do we stop holding on to par and start like
Speaker 2: why don't what would what would happen at a tour
Speaker 2: event at cal Club Furman Fast, Like you know, people
Speaker 2: would the score, let it, let go of the score?
Speaker 2: Would it be really fun to watch?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And I think that's like I think that's what people
Speaker 3: are kind of tricked with right now. They're like a
Speaker 3: lot of people talk about that the Mexico event.
Speaker 1: How they you know, love that that.
Speaker 3: Golf course, And I think they're they don't really know
Speaker 3: what they're talking about as much like they love what
Speaker 3: that golf course offers, and it offers like a bunch
Speaker 3: of different approaches get you get a bunch of like
Speaker 3: shorter holes, and you get all these things that you
Speaker 3: might not see at a place like.
Speaker 1: PGA National.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, You're not just like getting
Speaker 3: hit in the face. You're getting these like cool webshots,
Speaker 3: and you're you're seeing a lot of like exciting stuff.
Speaker 3: You're seeing guys get close to driving greens or you're
Speaker 3: seeing guys driving greens and chipping in and everything like that.
Speaker 3: So I totally get what you're saying, Like short, it's
Speaker 3: not terrible to go to these short courses. Sometimes they're
Speaker 3: more fun and they offer kind of a different, you know,
Speaker 3: different style of golf tournament.
Speaker 2: It seems like the best way to combat distance and
Speaker 2: the bombing gouge would actually be to make the golf
Speaker 2: courses shorter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had discussions about that.
Speaker 3: Like I feel like when they you know, obviously the
Speaker 3: ball goes far and you know, guys are hitting it
Speaker 3: further and everything like that, and there you know a
Speaker 3: lot of people talk about guys being more athletic and everything.
Speaker 3: But I think kind of where they screwed up in
Speaker 3: terms of golf course setup or whatever is when they
Speaker 3: started like tigerproofing these golf courses and you know, putting
Speaker 3: all these bunkers at like to ninety and putting all
Speaker 3: these new te boxes and making courses longer and longer.
Speaker 3: It just played more into the hands of guys like
Speaker 3: Tiger and you know, guys that hit it far, cause
Speaker 3: you kind of take the you take that lower distance,
Speaker 3: hitting guys kind of out of the mix a little
Speaker 3: bit more to where if you you started making like
Speaker 3: three hundred and seventy yard par fours where guys could
Speaker 3: hit driver, but they would have those like weg shots,
Speaker 3: But that was an option. I think that kind of
Speaker 3: that brings so much more to the table than having
Speaker 3: like every hole be a five hundred yard part four.
Speaker 2: That's kind of what I was thinking, is because like, okay,
Speaker 2: if you're in the rough with a half wedge, like
Speaker 2: the reward of getting like a half wedge in the fairway,
Speaker 2: like it's been proven if you get closer in the fairway,
Speaker 2: you've got a better chance of making birdie. But if
Speaker 2: you get in that same spot, like a half wedge
Speaker 2: from the rough is actually kind of harder to hit
Speaker 2: than a half wedge from a full wedge from the
Speaker 2: rough because you can't get the trajectory on its easy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's and it's just shots that you don't have
Speaker 3: as much, you know what I mean, And shots shots
Speaker 3: you don't practice as much, and everything like that. Like
Speaker 3: sometimes I think of it like playing a scramble or
Speaker 3: playing like up a couple of sets of teas when
Speaker 3: you're when you're at your home course or whatever, you
Speaker 3: get tricked into hitting like a lot of drivers, and
Speaker 3: you start getting these like fifty yard web shots out
Speaker 3: of the rough that you never have and you never practice.
Speaker 3: And sometimes it's like harder than if you were playing
Speaker 3: like the back teas and hitting a driver to.
Speaker 1: Like one hundred and twenty yards.
Speaker 3: So it would just be like a whole different ballgame.
Speaker 3: I think it would be pretty cool to see. It
Speaker 3: would be fun to see a couple of tournaments a year,
Speaker 3: do it, you.
Speaker 1: Know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were texting about this the other day. We
Speaker 2: were coming up with some courses. Like everybody always says like, oh,
Speaker 2: let's go to you know, the Cypress, or you could
Speaker 2: have it at you know, National, But like, realistically, some
Speaker 2: golf courses in cities that you could maybe host a
Speaker 2: tournament at that would be offer what Mexico had, but
Speaker 2: with better architecture and less trees.
Speaker 3: And I was at Holston Hills is the one that
Speaker 3: you always kind of talk about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be super cool. It's in Knoxville, though,
Speaker 2: so I don't think you'd see a tour event in
Speaker 2: Knoxville is the problem, you know, getting But in Chicago
Speaker 2: you could, for example, you could look at having an
Speaker 2: event at like Skokie or at Beverly, which would be,
Speaker 2: like mark remarkably different than you know, the the you
Speaker 2: know Conway Farms or Medina that are built for this
Speaker 2: championship golf. You know, modern, modernly built for championship golf.
Speaker 2: Say the same thing with you know, TPC Boston versus
Speaker 2: going to Myopia or I don't know if they'd ever
Speaker 2: host essex.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of a it's a it's a weird subject, right,
Speaker 3: you're talking about because it's like you'll you'll always have
Speaker 3: people be like, oh they would never host a tournament,
Speaker 3: but you never.
Speaker 1: Know, you know, some sometimes they would. I think I
Speaker 1: think it's like.
Speaker 2: The key is also doing a RODA. You know, asking
Speaker 2: somebody to do it for ten straight years is a
Speaker 2: lot different than asking somebody to do it once every
Speaker 2: ten years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, like people, especially in those areas, you know,
Speaker 3: of the United States, where you're not playing golf twelve
Speaker 3: months a year. It's kind of hard to ask them
Speaker 3: to give it up at you know, prime peak season
Speaker 3: for however long, you know, usually at least a week
Speaker 3: for the golf tournament, probably a week before they would
Speaker 3: shut it down, and then not to mention all the
Speaker 3: recovery times after. You know, these guys are losing their
Speaker 3: golf courses. So it's kind of a weird situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so logo madness, what that was kind of crazy.
Speaker 2: I was surprised at how popular it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I.
Speaker 3: Knew it was gonna I knew people were gonna get involved,
Speaker 3: and I I had a hunch that it would be
Speaker 3: it would get a lot of traction, but it kind
Speaker 3: of definitely, it definitely was way more than I thought.
Speaker 3: And it was cool to see everybody get so fired
Speaker 3: up about this stuff. And it was funny because when
Speaker 3: I originally posted the picture, we had like a thirty
Speaker 3: two man or a thirty two logo bracket, and immediately
Speaker 3: the second I posted it, we just got blown up
Speaker 3: by everyone about like all these courses that weren't in
Speaker 3: and I just like had to make an executive decision
Speaker 3: and just be like, dude, we're going sixty.
Speaker 2: Four, I know now, like we need to have like
Speaker 2: play in tournaments if yeah, like I feel like we
Speaker 2: still missed that. The tough thing is I think people
Speaker 2: have a hard time removing the course from the logo.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and at the same but at the same time,
Speaker 3: it's like sometimes that experience or whatever you want to
Speaker 3: call it, kind of ties into.
Speaker 1: The logo a little bit.
Speaker 3: You know, once you once you learn about certain things
Speaker 3: like the delf tiles at National that's kind of a
Speaker 3: logo that some people would be like what is that
Speaker 3: or like why that's not cool at all? And then
Speaker 3: you learn about it and you see it and you're like, wow,
Speaker 3: that is cool.
Speaker 1: After you play it, you're like even you like it
Speaker 1: even more.
Speaker 3: So it's a it's a weird thing, and it kind
Speaker 3: of goes along those discussions of when people are like
Speaker 3: would that whole be good if it wasn't on the
Speaker 3: ocean and stuff like that, but it's like it is
Speaker 3: on the ocean, and that.
Speaker 1: That logo is for that golf course.
Speaker 3: So it's a it's a I think a debate that
Speaker 3: no one will ever win.
Speaker 2: I h Yeah, it's And the cool thing about logos
Speaker 2: is everybody can have their opinion exactly. We as the committee,
Speaker 2: we we probably didn't do the best job of seating
Speaker 2: these and setting up matchups here. But who do you
Speaker 2: do feel like kind of got the toughest shake.
Speaker 3: Here, Stonewall, like having to go up against Marion's second round,
Speaker 3: which just I think they Stonewall could have made a
Speaker 3: pretty deep run in the tournament if they would have
Speaker 3: been in basically any other like, I don't know what
Speaker 3: were they They were like a thirty.
Speaker 2: Well they were they would have been an eight nine
Speaker 2: seed if if we go with the NTA tournament set up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought, I think I think them.
Speaker 2: I thought White Bear Yacht Club also had the same
Speaker 2: thing because they had to go up against fishers in
Speaker 2: the second round.
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 2: And then I mean Saint Louis Golf, Saint Louis Country
Speaker 2: Club kind of got wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, I were a lot La La
Speaker 3: got a kind of a tough one.
Speaker 1: They had to face Sleepy in the second round.
Speaker 2: They got there, they got blown out too. They just
Speaker 2: got obliterated. I know.
Speaker 3: I remember tweeting something like, what a great matchup we have,
Speaker 3: this is going to come down to the wire. And
Speaker 3: then it was like seventy five twenty five. I was like, well,
Speaker 3: even Vegas is wrong.
Speaker 2: Every once in a while, I'm pretty disappointed that Chicago
Speaker 2: Golf Club lost a deer.
Speaker 1: How about s F Club getting bounced in the first round.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you it wasn't good for intertwined letters. Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: it's not good at all.
Speaker 3: We missed so many good logos looking back on it
Speaker 3: that it was just like, did you see they're doing
Speaker 3: a Canada one right now?
Speaker 2: There's so many of them we I don't know. People
Speaker 2: have been clamoring for a worldwide one with you know,
Speaker 2: all the world versus the you know logos, but man,
Speaker 2: it's it's tough. I think public one would be cool too.
Speaker 2: I don't know if pasta Tiempo would would hang in
Speaker 2: on the public side, if that counts to semi private
Speaker 2: count as public, I think maybe a lot.
Speaker 1: I think so, I think you got to do like
Speaker 1: just public.
Speaker 2: Just public. Man, there could be some bad, bad uh
Speaker 2: low seeds in that one.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, the one someone brought up. I think a cool
Speaker 3: one would be uh tea markers mark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about clubhouses.
Speaker 1: Clubhouses would be a good one too.
Speaker 3: There's so many good things you could do, and people
Speaker 3: love this stuff and they love getting involved and talking
Speaker 3: about it, and these ones are kind of easier to
Speaker 3: discuss than, you know, instead of talking about like golf holes.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. I think maybe we should do uh, we
Speaker 2: should do one in maybe a couple of weeks. We'll see, well,
Speaker 2: stay tuned, it'll be uh but uh, hey, what's the
Speaker 2: most underrated seth Rainer course that you've played?
Speaker 1: Oh? I don't know. I'm scared to say, because then
Speaker 1: right maybe say like I don't even know I would
Speaker 1: what would you say?
Speaker 2: I haven't played as many as you, So I haven't.
Speaker 1: Played like a ton, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: There's not like there's not like there aren't that many.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's not like that many.
Speaker 3: And it feels like a lot of them are are
Speaker 3: properly rated, you know what I mean, Like a lot
Speaker 3: of them are just solid golf courses. There's but like
Speaker 3: maybe maybe a place like Yale, even though it like
Speaker 3: that is a I think that place is under rated.
Speaker 1: Let me see, let me look up.
Speaker 2: Some I feel like that's another one where if it
Speaker 2: was an exclusive country club like Pasa Tiempo. It would
Speaker 2: be like thought of completely different. But because it's the
Speaker 2: way it's maintained, like it has to be, that it
Speaker 2: gets a bad rap. I guess if we include McDonald
Speaker 2: into it, Saint Louis Country Club was pretty rad.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But there's the thing that I always talk about. I
Speaker 3: feel like every McDonald course or every Rainer course, it
Speaker 3: seems like I don't know which way.
Speaker 1: I explain this. I always get confused.
Speaker 3: But it's like every Rainer or every McDonald was a Rainer.
Speaker 3: You know, he had some help in it, but not
Speaker 3: every Rainer was a McDonald, you know what I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 3: at least that's that's that's how I think of it.
Speaker 3: But like I'm running through some of these right now,
Speaker 3: like Sleepy Hollow. Sleepy hollows like pretty underrated.
Speaker 1: That place is sick. How about the Midland Hills finding
Speaker 1: that that.
Speaker 2: Drawing insane?
Speaker 4: It's so that's really cool, dude.
Speaker 2: Literally, do you think remember our podcast with Tully and
Speaker 2: how he kept talking about all he wanted to do
Speaker 2: was find the Metal Club original drawing, And like, I
Speaker 2: wonder if Tully was kind of like sad or re
Speaker 2: energized him and he started looking in some obscure places.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said that on Twitter the other day. He
Speaker 3: was like, he was just basically talking about how it
Speaker 3: just kind of like he's been looking NonStop for X
Speaker 3: amount of years and hasn't found anything yet, looked through
Speaker 3: every single piece of the clubhouse up there at Metal
Speaker 3: Club and he still hasn't got anything.
Speaker 1: So he's like, but I'm still gonna keep looking.
Speaker 2: What what do you think, Mackenzie Rainer? Now, is it
Speaker 2: changed at all now that you've played all these McKenzie
Speaker 2: courses in Australia and California.
Speaker 1: You know what what I'll say is.
Speaker 3: Mackenzie definitely had like a different flare about him that
Speaker 3: like his golf courses are one hundred percent like they're
Speaker 3: more beautiful, you know what I mean, And they probably
Speaker 3: like tie in together, get all the little little intricacies
Speaker 3: and details better than like a Rainer.
Speaker 1: But even like when I went to Mountain Lake the
Speaker 1: other day and put it on like green compile enjoyable
Speaker 1: to a put on for me and.
Speaker 3: To hit shots into because you have you have these
Speaker 3: just simple looking greens that you can make as hard
Speaker 3: as you want with what kind of pin positions you
Speaker 3: put and they're still not crazy, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like McKenzie.
Speaker 3: There's so many greens, Like if you look at back
Speaker 3: at like Pasa Timpo, there's so many greens out there
Speaker 3: that realistically only have like one or two hole locations,
Speaker 3: And the same thing goes with like a place like Cyprus.
Speaker 3: Once the greens get to a ten or a eleven,
Speaker 3: there's so much of the greens that are unusable and
Speaker 3: unpinnable to where besides like a couple holes like a
Speaker 3: redan or something else, there's so much more possibilities for
Speaker 3: whole locations and everything like that on a rainer golf
Speaker 3: course that it just seems so fun to play every
Speaker 3: day because it can change so much.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think like if you could, I guess it wouldn't
Speaker 2: look I don't think it would look right, But like
Speaker 2: some of the ways that Mackenzie bunkered places with with
Speaker 2: rainer green complexes would be ideal.
Speaker 1: I think you could do that.
Speaker 3: I think you could do that because if you look
Speaker 3: at like a like a rain a rainer course that's bunkered,
Speaker 3: you know, they're.
Speaker 1: All like deep grass faced bunkers.
Speaker 3: So you could do the very beautiful you know bunkers
Speaker 3: with the tongues and everything like that, and I think
Speaker 3: it would look good.
Speaker 1: I think you could do it, for sure. I think
Speaker 1: that's what we do at the Buck Club is just get.
Speaker 3: That perfect combination of the Mackenzie style bunkering with the
Speaker 3: rainer complexes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh. I think uh. I would say, I
Speaker 2: think that's possible. I mean, that's the way I would
Speaker 2: think about putting those guys together. You know, That's what
Speaker 2: I think each of them did. I keep thinking about
Speaker 2: super like architects, like if you put everybody together, how
Speaker 2: it would be? But that be impossible.
Speaker 3: That's what they did it. That's what they did. Man,
Speaker 3: That's what they did at PV. And that's why that
Speaker 3: place is the best golf course in the world.
Speaker 2: You know, who could have had Mackenzie.
Speaker 1: Did, Yeah, Monterey Peninsula. Who else?
Speaker 2: That's it?
Speaker 1: I think, But I think that's I need it. I
Speaker 1: need to say that better right now. Is what I think.
Speaker 1: What Mackenzie did so well was his bunkering and and
Speaker 1: the way he.
Speaker 3: Tied everything together and all the little details and intricacies
Speaker 3: of his golf course, and the way he let you
Speaker 3: get off the tee is so enjoyable. But a lot
Speaker 3: of his courses that I've played, the green complexes, once
Speaker 3: you get to a certain speed, they lose so many
Speaker 3: pin positions to where the golf courses could almost be
Speaker 3: a little repetitive, if that makes sense, to where Rainer
Speaker 3: I would There's so much, so much of the green
Speaker 3: complex is pinnable on all of his greens that you
Speaker 3: can change the golf course up day to day so
Speaker 3: much with the whole locations. I think that's the best
Speaker 3: way to explain it, and that's why I enjoy playing
Speaker 3: a Rainer golf course more.
Speaker 2: Have you played a lot of Bill Flynn courses, William
Speaker 2: a little bit?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, wild Bill. Wild Bill was solid. He's kind
Speaker 3: of like the perfect marriage of the two. He gets,
Speaker 3: you know, a little more movement on the green. Wild
Speaker 3: Bill does a good job of having a little more
Speaker 3: short grass around the putting surfaces, you know, around the
Speaker 3: green complexes. That's one thing I will say that Rainer lacked.
Speaker 3: He it was a lot of bunkering and a lot
Speaker 3: of rough I don't.
Speaker 2: Know though, is that just I think that's a lot
Speaker 2: of just shrinkage, bad mowing, over the years.
Speaker 3: Just don't they just don't mow it properly, because like
Speaker 3: even like a place like Mountain Lake the other day
Speaker 3: when I played, it's like all sides are guarded by bunkers.
Speaker 1: You know, except for the front.
Speaker 2: Rgo golf like that too.
Speaker 3: Short acres is too there's a little more short grass
Speaker 3: around that place. But still if you look, if you
Speaker 3: like look at aerials and everything like that, Rainer definitely
Speaker 3: liked to use bunkering around the greens more like if
Speaker 3: you think about Fisher's Island, like, yeah, every single hole
Speaker 3: it's bunkers left, right and back, you know what I mean. So,
Speaker 3: but that's why I was saying, I feel like William
Speaker 3: Flynn did a good job of kind of marrying the two.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: He he got a little more movement on the greens,
Speaker 3: but still a lot of it was pinnable. And then
Speaker 3: he did a good job of kind of letting you
Speaker 3: have short grass.
Speaker 2: You know, what we should try and do. We should
Speaker 2: try and do around the longest day of the year
Speaker 2: in June, depending on you might be playing in the
Speaker 2: US Open, so this would be move but we play
Speaker 2: either we play Southampton West Hampton National Golf links. It
Speaker 2: would be the rainer day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did that basically it was sick.
Speaker 2: Just rainer overload.
Speaker 1: I uh do that Long Island trip I went on.
Speaker 1: It was the same thing me and.
Speaker 3: You did in SF, but it was on Long Island
Speaker 3: and it was like, it was one of the coolest
Speaker 3: experiences ever just to see all those places. Southampton and
Speaker 3: West Hampton are Dude, they fly super under the radar.
Speaker 1: It's cool.
Speaker 3: Like West Hampton's so quirky and kind of on a
Speaker 3: small ballpark, but you never you never feel like you're
Speaker 3: cramped in there. And then Southampton is really cool. But
Speaker 3: it just I mean, shit, it's right next to National
Speaker 3: and Shinnecock, so it's like, of course, no one's ever
Speaker 3: going to really talk about it.
Speaker 2: That's I mean, National, Shinnacock, Sabonic Southampton being within essentially
Speaker 2: you could just walk to each of them from the
Speaker 2: other one. Yeah, and then you've got wingfoot both courses
Speaker 2: in quaker Ridge where you could like they're right, I mean,
Speaker 2: you could walk to them. That's like the craziest thing
Speaker 2: about New York.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they are. I mean it's so good.
Speaker 3: But I think that would be a cool one that
Speaker 3: you just said both of those would be sick on
Speaker 3: the longest day of the year. Try and play either
Speaker 3: you know, both courses at Wingfoot and Quaker, and then
Speaker 3: try and play National Shinny, Southampton and Sabonic on one day.
Speaker 3: That would be get seventy two in. Can you get
Speaker 3: seventy two in in a day? People do it at
Speaker 3: bandon On like the summer Sults, Summer Solstice.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean people, there's like that hundred hole hike
Speaker 2: that that Jim Colton founded that you do one hundred
Speaker 2: holes in a day for two I.
Speaker 1: Think you could. You could do it, definitely, you could
Speaker 1: definitely do it six.
Speaker 2: Think about it. So like if you tee off at
Speaker 2: six am, you're done with with eighteen by nine thirty
Speaker 2: or now by nine you tee off the next one,
Speaker 2: you're done by noon, take a thirty minute break for lunch.
Speaker 2: Then you're oh, you could do seventy two no problem.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's the that's the next one we
Speaker 3: do right there, National Shiny, Sabonic and Southampton.
Speaker 1: They're all touching each other.
Speaker 3: You could literally if you got permission somehow, the coolest
Speaker 3: thing I think you could ever do, now that I'm
Speaker 3: thinking about it, would be to start at Sabonic and
Speaker 3: figure out a routing where you know, you don't necessarily
Speaker 3: have to start from one, but like you could start
Speaker 3: from the one tip of the property and play until
Speaker 3: you until you get you know, handed off at National
Speaker 3: and play and then you hand it off kind of
Speaker 3: on like ten, yeah, and go over to Shinny and
Speaker 3: then you get handed off on Shinny on like twelve
Speaker 3: and go play all of Southampton and then come back
Speaker 3: connect back to Shinney, play out until you get back
Speaker 3: to National.
Speaker 1: Play that out and finish it off at Sabonic. Like
Speaker 1: that would be I think that's our new goal in life,
Speaker 1: right there, is to somehow pull.
Speaker 2: That we create a seventy two whole routing using those
Speaker 2: four courses.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get on that tonight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you figure it out, we'll put the pot
Speaker 2: up just number We'll just number the one through seventy two.
Speaker 1: I think the way you got to do it is, uh,
Speaker 1: you you start. I think you got to finish a
Speaker 1: National somehow.
Speaker 3: You gotta you gotta make a way to finish National
Speaker 3: eighteen because that's like there's not many more amazing pull.
Speaker 1: The sun would be going down over the over the
Speaker 1: fucking day, dude, it would be legendary. We gotta we
Speaker 1: gotta get on that. Man.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna get this. Uh, I'm gonna get
Speaker 3: this dialed in. And that's going to be our goal
Speaker 3: for the year is to somehow.
Speaker 1: Pull that off.
Speaker 2: Hey, overrated, underrated? I only think I think I only
Speaker 2: have like one of them. Okay, Shadow Creek.
Speaker 1: I would say, I would say underrated.
Speaker 3: I feel like people talk about it, but it really
Speaker 3: is kind of like a masterpiece.
Speaker 1: To see that place.
Speaker 3: How they virtually took a flat piece of property and
Speaker 3: you go on this wild ride kind of up and
Speaker 3: down and it's it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Push carts.
Speaker 1: Underrated.
Speaker 3: I just don't understand, like how they're not more popular
Speaker 3: over here. It's all people use in both like Scotland
Speaker 3: and Ireland and Australia. It's kind of like you never
Speaker 3: see people with caddies in those places, and you never
Speaker 3: see people with golf carts or carrying.
Speaker 1: It's always push carts. So underrated.
Speaker 2: All right, All right, later man, we'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Okay, you've been listening to the fried Egg podcast.
Speaker 2: We do the digging for you.