WEBVTT - Ep. 076: The Impossible Hunt 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:13.360 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:18.400 bug bitten and in my case, underwear lessening podcast. You 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:26.840 can't predict anything, have like your own show. And I 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:31.800 was like, oh, I don't think you're talking about to 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.440 say that. Um, your turkey talk did not inspire me, 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.120 but I would love to be able to bottle Brittany's lap. 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.920 You don't like that, y'all. Don't know what you brought 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.000 up recently that I've been meaning to bring up with 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.199 other people. Don't maybe think like a lot less of you. 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.720 Uh yeah, it's just saying that it's gonna happen sometimes. Yeah, 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.080 just just saying that. When he was guiding l Hunters, 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.360 did dude like, there's turnover day, right, and new guys 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:09.320 come in. Janice would look and and hope to get 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.120 a signed to the person that looked like they were 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:17.160 the highest tipper. That's what I was curious about. Look 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:22.000 at their shoes or something. Because we were talking about 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.680 tips in general, and we were talking about somewhere we 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.360 were talking about where they were pooling tips. I said, 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.199 I'd like that because you would like that. Well, yeah, 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.280 because when the new crew rolls in, you can you 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.720 can't pick the guys out like they do the rolls in. 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.039 It's like you were saying, save five thousand dollars over 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:44.440 ten years by collecting metal scraps, and then at the 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:46.520 end of the week he doesn't kill out and he 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.640 tips his dude a thousand bucks, and you're like, how 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.880 how did that happen? Sounds like a big tip. That's 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:54.920 a giant tips you were saying. I thought you were 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.800 saying the guy with the metal scraps would not tip. Well, 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:02.040 well that's what you would think, right, So you're I'm 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.560 saying you can't pick them out. The guy that was 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:09.680 stripping down copper wire for ten years just to go 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.440 on a hunt, you'd be like, I don't want him. 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:14.360 And then it turned out that you could. You didn't 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.760 really know because maybe he had stripped so much copper wire. Right. 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:20.640 I grew up. This is the last I'll say about this. Uh, 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:22.799 you can explain more. But I grew up with guys 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.560 that were so ambitious, but not ambitious that rather get jobs. 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:30.040 These guys one time went and hot wired some kind 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.240 of piece of heavy equipment in order to load a 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.360 spool of rubber coated copper cable into a truck and 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:40.200 then spent days with a fire burning off the coating 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.600 to sell them and like how much copper were talking 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:50.320 about a giant spool pounds hundreds of pounds of copper. Yeah, 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:52.519 that's where some money, and had a campfire and just 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.280 rather than like getting a job, I'm just working for yourself, man, 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.360 But um yeah, some guys don't back up, so so 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.400 I just I just felt to you, like knowing you, 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.880 I felt like you would you would say uh, or 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.280 the way I understood you to be before, before I 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.520 found out how you really are, I would have pictured 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.160 that you'd say like, uh, yeah. You know. The guys 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.200 come in and I look and I try to find 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.720 the one who's dreaming the most, the one that's hungryest 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.280 for this hunt, because I want to team up with 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.079 him and give him an experience, and by god, if 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.080 I need to pay him to do it, I'll do it. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:36.960 I need the guide's dreams of the client that you want. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.000 A guide probably change, you know, as you mature as 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.000 a guide, it changes because like in the beginning, you're like, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.040 I want the guy that's never elk on it, and 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:46.840 then he won't call me out on the fact that 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.480 I've only hunted two weeks more than he. And then 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.520 later you sort up probably get to the person that 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.120 you're like, man, I wanted to do this is just 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.680 gonna charge, gonna get up at three am. He wants 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.520 to hunt the top of the mountain every day and 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.040 hike three hours in the dark every day, like three 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.440 hours in the dark back every day. And then I 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.400 think right towards the end at least definitely happened with 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.160 fishing for me, is that, Um, I like taking just 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.000 newbies and beginners that just you know, you show them 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.160 one bugle and elk and they're just like, wow, blew 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.400 my mind. That was unbelievable, you know. Um And even 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.599 if they weren't the best hunters, if they at least 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.160 were just trying into it, and you know, that's how 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.440 you wanted a guide, So that changes, I think, you know, 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.200 but you are working at the end of the week. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:30.880 Sure it's nice to go to the bar with the 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.279 big wall in your pocket. Yeah. What was a good 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.200 tip for how long were these elk hunts? Five days? 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:38.240 And what was a good tip at the time what 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.120 the hunt cost? It was a bargain basement hunt. Man, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.520 it was cheap. It was like three thousand ish for 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.920 our treat, maybe even a little bit less. And uh, 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:50.640 but we hunted a lot of public land, you know, 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.760 and you might run into other dudes, and then I think, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.440 like if you hunted out of the cabin for rifle, 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.920 might have been thirty five thirty eight ish something like that. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.960 So good tip, A good tip. I think like everybody 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.960 was stoked if you got two got it two to 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.920 one and you were like fine to go walk out 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:09.760 of there with two hundred bucks from each guy. You know, 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:11.440 you felt like you were getting stiffed if it was 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.040 they only give you a hunter for the whole week, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.400 you know, but every now and then you did get 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.600 a dude the three down the k like he basically 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.080 double because we're getting paid two hundred bucks a day 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.200 and so he would double your wages for the week, 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:29.719 which was sweet cash. Yeah, exactly cash. Yeah. Are you 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.560 related to Mark Roscoe, the former governor? I am? Then 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.479 your dad, Now that's my uncle, Yeah, my dad's oldest brother. 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.599 So you're like politically connected. Oh yeah, no, not necessarily, 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:45.560 I mean yeah, yeah, how uh that was in the 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.280 mid nineties, Yeah, it was, so he was and he 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.120 had two terms here and unfortunately can't bring the exact 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.320 dates to you, but yeah, it was in that time 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.720 for him. Uh and and having a back having your 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.640 own do you own out do you own stone Glacier 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.920 out right? No? No, I do not? You run it? 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:10.479 What a how's it work? Um? Yeah? Like you like 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.080 the explain to me? You tell me, I will explain 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.200 it to you. Can we hear who you're talking to? 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:20.120 Is it too early to no? Let's do no, let's 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:25.440 let's do round tablets here. Pete Munich, Pete Munich has 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:30.320 been out here before. Um talking goats. Yeah, because Pete 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.799 runs Rocky You know how Janice has the Rocky Mountain 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:38.400 Squirrel Foundation. Pete Munich invented, right, you invented the Rocky 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.160 Mountain go to lines once upun a time, which is 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:49.919 the only got focused mountain goat focused. And you were 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.320 inspired like you you had like a moment, like a 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:57.360 like a epiphany. Uh. Yeah. I saw the Governor's tag 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.240 Big Horn Tag in Montana get auctioned off that wild 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.840 cheap Foundation one winner for five eighty thousand dollars and 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.400 eight I didn't know what ever went that high? Yeah, 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.240 well we gotta return to that because that's something I 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.040 want to talk about anyways, talk boy at. That money 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.520 went back to the state of Montana for sheep management 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:19.080 and conservation. And I love mountain goats and had previously 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.960 hunted one and kind of inquired about our governor's tag 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.480 Mountain goat Governor's tag, and then kind of started asking 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.760 about volunteer opportunities and conservation efforts and that kind of 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.480 a quiet answer. So the go To Alliance was formed? 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.960 What what did the goat tag go for? That same year? 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.200 The Montana Governor's Mountain Goat tag ranges from about fifteen 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.920 to twenty three thousand dollars. I don't know they had one. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.440 You never hear about that? Yeah, a lot most states do. See, 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.160 all right, we're already digging a hole. Man. There's so 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:54.960 much easily explained now, Okay, so Pete, you also work 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.800 Peter or Pete, I see, just go But you also 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.560 work for Stone was Yes, I do. It's like you're 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.240 main because you don't make money off running the go 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:08.000 to line. Um, then Kurt tell to tell all about 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.440 what you got going out? Now, Okay, So, Um, I 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.840 am the lead designer for Stone Glacier and I'm also 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.600 one of the owners and the founder. I'm the founder 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.800 one oh yep, one of yep. Yeah. We were in 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.680 the room where you design packs. Yeah, yeah, a lot 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.320 of it. You know, n I do right here. Um 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.600 nice quiet space, you don't, you know, no distractions and 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.240 uh have everything you need right here. So yeah, I 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.280 started Stone Glacier back in two thousand twelve, and then 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.280 this last year, you know, we're looking for growth, we're 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:46.160 looking to expand in other markets, do lots of other things, 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.760 and we found um the right people that wanted to 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.800 be involved, and and so you know, it's given me 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.720 the time to move back into the design primarily and 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.880 focus on on you know, what I need to do 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.480 to grow the company. You know, back in the mid nineties, 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.920 I was saying, went a little later now, I was like, 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:06.600 you know what, there's no more room in his world 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:12.439 for another micro brewery. Yeah, just a few. Yeah, look 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:20.200 at both around declared market saturation. Yeah. But is it like, 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.719 is it scary? Was it scary getting like starting a 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.880 backpack company? No, it wasn't scary at all. Um. I 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.960 think you know, financially, it wasn't scary, just because of 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.880 the way that I went about it. Um, I wasn't 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:35.920 looking to hit a home run. I wasn't looking to 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.200 leverage my you know, my family's life savings. UM. I 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:40.960 was just looking to bring a product to market that 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:45.360 I thought was viable, that people would use. Uh and 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:49.640 and so that was the only step was actually taking 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:54.720 on myself. I talked to other companies, you know, nothing serious, um, 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:56.640 but you know, they had their own programs going. They 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.240 were doing their own thing, and so that that was 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.760 the only option. And started very small, you know, a 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.360 minimum run. And this was a side gig. This is 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.959 not Kurt's full time job. Yes, yep, yep, yep, exactly. 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:15.080 So uh, all time job, full time job, high alted 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:19.480 electrician in Alaska. Yeah, that's why this room is plastered 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:23.719 with stuffed doll sheet. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:25.240 wanna use me up there? Is that just don't know 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.520 us now how gonna use you up there? I was 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.840 up there for Oh yeah, so you're stacking up doll rams. Yeah, 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:38.400 I was trying you shot all these doll sheep yep, yep. Question. 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:42.199 That's the brown that is a Montana big one. That's 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.719 the that's the unlimited that is Yeah, I want to 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.360 talk about that a whole bunch. And then Brittany brothers, 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:48.560 you've been on here a bunch of times? How many 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.160 times been on here? Only two times? No? No No, no, 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.920 that's not true. I guess after the episodes too, So 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.920 four times? Can you laugh for a minute? No, because 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.920 the fella I'll just tell Brittany fella rode in last 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.800 time you were on and and he was saying that 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:09.720 he wished that he could bottle bottled Brittany's laughter. He 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.520 provided full contact information. So I feel like you should 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.640 chuckle for him. Now, Well, it's organic, right, Like I 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.000 have to be prompted. I can't just like fake it otherwise, 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.800 you know, would be the fun in that? Um, what 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:25.240 do you have to say? Did you want to get 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.320 in a turkey the spring? No? I didn't. We went 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.920 once with Janice and Helen and her boyfriend came into 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.120 town and my boyfriend and the whole Patelis clan. And 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:39.040 then another time my boyfriend and I went out east 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.280 and were attacked by like the worst tick infecon infection. 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.840 But it doesn't those ticks don't matter. Oh they sure 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.960 as held. When you have two dogs that are crawling 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.320 with hundreds of ticks, why would you bring dogs turkey 0:11:52.400 --> 0:12:02.160 hunt were hunting turkey's illegally under the bush. We were 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.520 not hunting with dogs. They were hanging out in the 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.600 camp or while we went in the morning. But then 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:08.840 like during the day and it was like ninety degrees 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.840 to during the day, so we're like hanging out and 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.520 then they just like suddenly realized they were crawling with texts. 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.079 The problem with those laugh The problem of those ticks 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.839 is that when you pick them off you, you always 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.840 leave the parts in you and the parts in you. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.760 It's like a bastard. But they don't don't really bite 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.160 onto you for like another for like a day or so. 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:33.680 But once they get on, you get in your weight, 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.559 they get onto your belt anywhere, man, and then they 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.440 grab on and you tear them off, and then you 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.640 think you got them, and then it itches and swells 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.559 and you gotta get a tweezer and a razor. Ticks 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.520 off of myself and our pets growing up all the time, 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.480 I've just never seen anything or experience anything like that. 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.880 But these ticks don't carry lime, right, so it makes 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.760 them cool with me. Okay, Well, it's like it's like 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:04.280 it by mosquitoes. I'm not gonna go west. Still still 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.040 better than Mosquito. They don't carry West now anyway, So 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.960 next year, yeah, without the dogs and maybe no ticks. 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.120 Good luck that kind of comes with the territory. So 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.440 I want to talk about these these this Big Horn 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.840 deal a little bit because what's interesting is that both 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:27.400 Pete and Kurt have done the impossible and killed the 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:31.000 Big Horn from a and this isn't gonna be anything 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:37.600 the people listen killed the Big Horn from an unlimited unit. Um. 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.760 But first I want back up, what at what point 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:45.360 when you're doing high volta uh electrician work? Why why 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:46.800 are you? Like? Man, what I really should be doing 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.320 is is stitching backpacks? Why? You know what I mean? Yeah? No, 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.800 it was more on a necessity. I was. I was 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.920 accessing or trying to access some areas in Alaska that 0:13:58.400 --> 0:13:59.800 you know, if you if you could if you can 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:03.760 make one trip in and one trip out, then you've 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.640 effectively doubled the range that you could cover. But if 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.440 you had to make two trips out with you know, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.439 all the extra gear that you're carrying in an entire sheet. 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.040 Do you mean hunting off the road system? No? This 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.720 is all yeah, this is all flying you know, flying 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.600 in a super cub drop off at a strip. And 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:23.160 then what mountain range were you on chew gash In 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:29.200 and the Laska Range alone? Well, yeah, I mean most 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.160 of the time there. There was a couple of hunts 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.200 I went with with good friends. But that's that's really 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.960 where it started. That's where I learned that I or 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:38.960 I was trying to learn how to sew because you 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.320 wanted to make modifications I've gone through like you were 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.040 trying to like dick around with your exist exactly. Yeah, 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:49.000 that's exactly what it was making a superpack well lighter, lighter, 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.640 and just a little bit more function for specifically what 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.880 I was trying to do, and but primarily it was weight. 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.760 It was being able to take things out of existing 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:00.760 packs and still be able to put them back together 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.160 so they'll function. So, like, what would be an example 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.400 what was it back? Like, what would be an example 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:09.600 of a backpack that you started? Right? Were you? Like? 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.400 What kind of pack would you buy that you'd want 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.160 to dick with to make different? It was it was 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.600 pretty much all of them at that point. Frames. No, 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.400 I didn't I didn't carry any external frames. I went 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.840 primarily with the internals um, you know I had some 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:31.320 north face, had some arc terics, and a majority of 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.600 the time it was removing things and still being able 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.720 to put it back together so it would work. So 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.720 you know, get rid of extra pockets, extra zippers, extra straps, 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.280 move a strap down lower so you had more load compression. Uh, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.880 you know, simple things like that. And you know, slowly, yes, 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.400 I started ending up closer to what we have today. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.440 Um like a way as stripped down back pack, Yeah, yeah, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.040 for sure, for sure, and being able to keep it modular. 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.800 You know. Interesting enough, one of the first backpacks that 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.120 is when I went up there. I don't know if 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:03.600 you guys have remember to ever use yet was the 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.960 old Coleman external. Yeah. Well they had different packs that 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.200 you could put on there, so now you could you know, 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.840 at the time this was you know, yeah you said 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.080 you didn't use external pa, No, but not like that, 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.200 not like the true tubular external. So that this Coleman 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.440 frame was, you know, a footprint that was very small 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.480 and in in comparison to say, you know the Kelty 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.040 or the Barneys, which are I mean good packs on 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.080 that when we started using in Alaska. That when I 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.080 first started hunt up there was the like the tubular Yeah, 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:38.320 I mean the full on like pins with the for sure, 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.960 the pins with the key, the key ring molders, the 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.080 hold the pins in and ship like that. Well and 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.760 still squeaky is all. Okay, they are squeaky, but I 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.880 mean they're the go to if your hall and moose. Yeah. 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.600 I don't know of anybody who you know, who would 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.880 say much different, especially the guides and a lot of 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.640 the guys that use them in Alaska. It's just bomber, 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.240 you know. You throw a hind quarter on there, you 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.640 have something to lash too. Um, It's just it's just 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:06.360 a different animal than this, you know. And so um, yeah, 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.800 that's kind of where it all started as far as 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.800 the sewing portion. And then so you bought a soul 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.640 machine or hint doing it? Yeah, no, no, I bought 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.720 a sewing machine and that that was quite the learning 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.480 curve in itself, because you get what you pay for. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.600 You know. The first one I have is garbage and 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.840 you just fought it right there. That's a jukie. Our 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:29.840 singer is good. My mom runs a singer, don't be 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:34.720 bad mouthed singer. That's when I was a little kid. 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:36.560 My mom, when I was looking at my mom sold 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.960 our clothes. We wore homemade clothes a little. It sounds 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.879 like kind of amish, Yeah, should we not? All we 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.720 had a lot of homemade clothes and we hunted deer 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.080 and homemade wool clothes. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, wool pants 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.640 with elastic waste, you know, yeah, a lot of that. 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:57.440 Times change, man. Oh but I had a follow up question. 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:03.360 So like mains and singers, No, back to walking as 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:05.280 far as you could and not had to make two 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.760 trips out. Um, So you're just thinking, like, if I 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.680 make it lighter, even if it's by this a couple 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:17.680 of pounds, that will essentially just remove a whole trip. Yeah, yeah, obviously. Okay, okay, 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.040 but that doesn't work with just the pack because you're 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.879 you're adding with with the with the sheep head and 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.199 all the meat. You got like forty five pounds of 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:29.480 meat the heads, Like thank god, I had eight quite 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.199 a eight ounce pocket out of my pack. It doesn't matter, No, 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.080 it does, it does in the end, Okay, So it's 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.560 it's it's the entire I need to let you ask 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.119 this question. No I did, I got it out. No, 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.000 it's the entire it's the entire program, you know. So 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.320 it's everything that you carry in the pack. It's the 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.520 difference between going in on my first sheet point where 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:55.000 you're sixty five pounds. Yeah yeah, I mean there's it's 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.439 you know, a sleeping bag that weighs a pound and 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:01.119 a half more than what I have, you know, ultimately, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.600 and so you go through your entire gear list, your tent, 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:05.960 you're you know, you're stove, you get dialed in on 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.119 your food. All of a sudden, you're looking at thirty 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.639 five pounds going in. Now you're looking at thirty pounds 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.280 difference coming out. And so even at my lightest weight, 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.480 I was still looking in that hundred and ten hundred 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.480 twenty pound range of one load coming out, you had 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.000 thirty pounds on that. I'm not doing it. I know 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.720 that there are guys that are doing but that and 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.400 the dollars take care of That's it. That's it. So 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.120 you know, at the end, when I decided I'd gone through, 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.080 I'd gone through all the rest of my gear. Because 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.160 you could, you could spend money and you could buy that. 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:38.639 That's all you had to do is just pony up 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.040 the cash and drop weight out of your pack. But 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:42.679 once you got to the pack. You know what what 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.879 you mean, like like that just buy lighter. Buying like 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.920 a lighter stove is going to cost more than a 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.760 big heavy stove. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so you got 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:57.000 down two, you got down to let's say you're doing. 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:58.560 You got down where you could do a nine day, 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:03.959 ten day hunt. It varied, it varied, so you know, 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.320 you're looking at that you're looking at two pounds of 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.680 food today. So it really depended on where you were 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:13.199 going and what you were doing. Um and so you know, 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.520 some of the areas you knew that there was only 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.320 five days of hunting going this way out of the strip, 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.600 there might be seven days going the other might be 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:22.960 ten days. You know. You just all depended on the 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.639 specific hunt. So the actual weight that you left the 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.800 strip from that would vary and it would carry on. 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.399 You might fly in with then just hang a bag, 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:33.639 I don come back. You're gonna come back and you're 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.240 gonna go the other way. And and then it also 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.400 depended on the country. So when you go into certain spots, 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.600 you know, maybe it's tight. You know, maybe there's only 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.280 one canyon that they're in there. So now you're not 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:48.520 going to carry a four pound spotting scope because you 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.040 know that you can glass most of it up with 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.040 your binoculars once you get there. You just knew a 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.760 little bit more about the program than say, you know 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:57.399 what we do when we just go out down the 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.879 canyon here LK counting might be trying to look at 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:05.320 something that's two miles away. So I think just the 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:09.760 the entire program got more dialed in up there because 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.000 you're going back to the same spots, so you kind 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.439 of knew exactly what you needed and you'd start cutting 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.240 those things out and you know, so that's that's where 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:21.040 you ended up. You know, I can picture that you're 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.280 saying when you uh, when you when you were out 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:26.919 doing that kind of stuff you just mentioned because you 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.200 mentioned spotting scopes. Um. I thing I like about Sheephunt 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.840 is you can burn up the ground so quick. Yeah, 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.960 because you're looking at this like black rock or is 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.640 that that rich that Rick French made that movie? Yeah, 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:42.200 black black white sheep. So you don't it's not like 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.520 glass couzi or you're like, I know, I'm looking at tenam. 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.960 I just can't mind it. You know, it's like, is 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.600 there a white thing sitting there? No, let's move. It is. 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.639 It is. But you know, it's amazing how much little 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:59.000 things like they just the topography and then the little swales, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:04.800 a little cuts. They absolutely and light. I mean, you 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:06.920 get up in you get up into that kind of 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:09.560 shale country and you get a certain type of light 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:12.639 in the middle of the day and things look, rocks 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.240 look lighter, everything looks lighter. The sheep, you know, they're 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:18.639 laying in this dark shale, so they you know, they 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.080 don't look white like they're not all of them look 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:23.480 white like this. You know, they're more of a dirty 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:27.040 So you would think that they'd be super easy to find, 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:29.560 but you know, sometimes they're not. Sometimes they are. Sometimes 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:31.200 they're standing in the middle of a great, big green 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.600 patch and they just stand out from miles away. Sometimes 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:36.200 you're right on top of them. The worst thing to 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.600 have to us hunting sheep one time is that snow 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:44.600 is very frustrating. We we found sheep one time after 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:50.760 it snowed by. Just eventually found some tracks with my 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:55.080 spotting scope and started following the tracks with my spotting 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:57.560 scope and eventually lost the tracks. I was like, oh, 0:22:57.560 --> 0:22:59.120 where do you go from there? And never realized it's 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:02.960 something staring at it. That's where they ended. Yeah, it's 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.360 like they're not quite they're not snow white though, they're 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.480 like yellow. But it was just like eventually the snow 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:12.080 melts and we're back in business. That really that really 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:16.680 feels like you're like not hunting real good anymore. Yeah, 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.480 that snow happens. No, that makes it tough, It makes 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:23.160 it treacherous. What years was that you were that you're 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.320 up there doing all this. Um, I moved up there 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:30.520 and I guess it was nineties six and then moved 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:34.800 back in two thousand ten. Yeah, back to him Montown, 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:36.679 And that's when you started making packs. Did you just 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.000 quit Electrician NG altogether? No, No, I didn't. I didn't 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.119 ever quit. I think that's that's one of the keys 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:47.080 to the business personally, because what do you mean, because 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:50.439 I was able to make decisions that are best for 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.120 the business, not best for me. You know, I wasn't 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:55.680 trying to put cash in my pocket. I was able 0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:57.560 to do mean, it was key that you kept having 0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:04.439 a different Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, And yeah, you 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:06.479 know it was it was a really unique decision. But 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:09.520 I didn't have to be in a spot where I 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:12.119 was trying to pull extra out so my family had 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:14.640 health insurance. And you know, especially when you're when you're smaller, 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.800 and and I think it allowed, in my opinion, allowed 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:23.720 the company to grow faster, you know, pose it. It's 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:25.679 not my personality to try to go hit up an 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:27.879 investor and take out hundreds of thousands of dollars in 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.000 leverage everything I have. Um not that I didn't believe in, 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:33.440 it was just not my personality and I would rather 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:36.160 I believe that if I was building a good product, 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:39.399 that it was going to grow itself. You know, I 0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:42.880 didn't have to shove it down anybody's throat. And there 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:46.080 was a process of going along. When you bring the 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:48.760 first you you bring it to market, you get that 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:51.920 feedback and you you slowly start to make those changes 0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:54.760 that take it from a good product to an exceptional product. 0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:57.560 And you need that time. You can't just come up 0:24:57.600 --> 0:24:59.800 with it. I mean some people do. I shouldn't say 0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:02.720 it way. I didn't. And I knew that it had 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:05.800 room to expand and it needed to grow. You know 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:08.840 what's different about them? And I've used the Brazilian packs, 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:11.760 and I liked the Brazilian packs over the years, but 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:15.760 it's like some packs you get and you're like, it's 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:18.080 just like someone's like, I'm just gonna make a pack, 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:22.000 like how people make packs. My key my secret sauce 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:25.160 would be how I market my pack, right honest, gonna 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:27.920 go take you know, whatever people like and make a 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:30.040 version of that and try to sell it. It's like 0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:34.520 a very different pack. Yeah, I mean, you get it. 0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:36.840 You gotta mess with it for a minute, and then 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:39.080 you go through like a day of a little bit 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:41.560 frustrated and then all of a sudden you're like, oh no, 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:44.919 ship that's why that's like that, And then that's a 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:47.680 fun feeling to have over the course of a few 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:50.120 days where you kind of go like I got it now, 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:52.600 you know. I mean, like your buddies like no, no, no, 0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:54.720 do this and you'll be loving You're like, oh yeah, 0:25:54.800 --> 0:26:00.000 that's right because it's like really unique features and unique design. 0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:01.920 Is it kind of like solve problems that you didn't 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:04.320 know we're there? But one of the biggest things is 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:07.600 is uh that it's like they're so like, I don't know, 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:10.960 tidy is that a word you guys using the backpack? 0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:14.719 I think we're gonna start but cleaning. Yeah, like clean 0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:17.600 tidy packs. Yeah. We were eating a real fancy dinner 0:26:17.600 --> 0:26:20.120 there night, and I told the smali a remember the wine. 0:26:20.160 --> 0:26:22.159 Just he had all these wine descriptions. I said, you 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:25.119 need to start describing certain wines as rough and tumble wines. 0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:28.840 He wasn't using. He was using a lot of more 0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:35.600 effeminate terminology, but he out the other. But yeah, it's 0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:41.240 like a tidy kind of like clean nothing, no ship 0:26:41.320 --> 0:26:44.520 snagging on brush kind of pack. Well that's because you 0:26:44.600 --> 0:26:49.000 put that on the lady. No bills and whistles, no 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:52.280 ships snagging on brush packs. Yeah. Well, what I was 0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:55.600 really hoping to do for myself was to have a 0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:57.760 pack because at the time, you know, it's hunting in Alaska, 0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:00.760 is hunting sheep, doing a little about to moose hunting 0:27:00.800 --> 0:27:02.159 up there. And then I was coming back and I 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:04.720 was hunting in Montana, yeah, you know when I could 0:27:04.720 --> 0:27:08.840 get Yeah, but that was before that, unfortunately, so I 0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:11.920 was still having a draw a tack at that point. Um, 0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:14.680 what do you mean, Well, they have to come back 0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:17.680 to hunt in Montana now, so you but that's only 0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:20.040 good for one year, right, that's a good question. I 0:27:20.040 --> 0:27:22.320 don't know, because I wasn't ever in that because I 0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:24.439 think there was like two different kinds, like one was 0:27:24.480 --> 0:27:26.760 just if you were. Yeah, I can't remember how they were, 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:29.280 but anyways, didn't have that program. Yeah, they didn't have 0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:31.239 that program. So a long story short, I was looking for. 0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:32.879 I was just looking to build a pack that I 0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:35.959 could use everywhere, and you know, the same thing if 0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:38.800 I was going hiking, if I you know, whatever it 0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:40.760 might be, so I could pack in all my gear 0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:43.280 just like you said, take it down and make it 0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:46.440 tidy and be able to day hunt out of it. 0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:49.720 Still pull my bow, keep it tight, you know, tight 0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:53.199 footprint on your back, and just try to hit that 0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:56.000 middle ground so that you always had it on. Because 0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:59.040 I didn't ever take my pack off, you know, whether 0:27:59.119 --> 0:28:01.800 it's whether I was packing all my stuff in or 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:05.679 whether I was actually hunting. Um, I always had it on. 0:28:06.480 --> 0:28:09.080 So I wanted to be functional. I wanted to be 0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:11.520 narrow on the pack so you can move. Didn't want 0:28:11.560 --> 0:28:15.199 it to be noisy, and just like you said, tidy, 0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:17.040 but then but then you can blow it up. But 0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:18.600 then you can blow it up. Always have people being like, 0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:20.280 I don't understand what you always gott in that pack. 0:28:20.320 --> 0:28:23.000 I'm like, lot's is nothing in that pack. But I'm 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.280 not gonna get something and then go on some hell 0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:27.560 hike back to go get my pack and then hike 0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:29.399 all the way back up again to go fetch it. 0:28:29.720 --> 0:28:32.160 That's it. I was gonna have it with me. Yeah. 0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:33.960 And if you have an empty pack, you know, and 0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:36.800 say you're hunting out, you can you know, you can 0:28:36.840 --> 0:28:39.400 get a lot out if you have your your friend 0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:43.320 with you, because yeah, that's why. More and more of 0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:45.080 the packs I like are the kinds that like have 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:48.520 a lot of space that actually blow up big. But 0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:51.400 the key is making it that once you tuck it 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:53.800 all into itself and sinch everything down, it's like you 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:56.480 basically got like a board on your back almost, but 0:28:56.560 --> 0:29:00.120 it can blow out and be like a gigantic m 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:05.640 haul in apparatus. And this thing too about packs is uh, 0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:07.760 I kind of always tell me because you know what 0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:09.480 you used to get in situations where you're gonna like 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:12.560 leave your pack for a minute. Yeah, I just I 0:29:12.680 --> 0:29:15.200 never leave you know the pocalypse now, never get out 0:29:15.240 --> 0:29:18.600 of the boat. And I'm like, never leave your pack. 0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:21.400 People like they get to where they're gonna like, yeah, 0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:23.040 I think we're gonna make a shot from the ridge. 0:29:23.560 --> 0:29:25.320 So this is all leave our packs. I'm yeah, you 0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:27.080 know what's gonna happen. Then you're gonna get up on 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:30.760 the bridge. You're gonna like, shoot, it's gonna you're gonna 0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:32.960 wing it. It's gonna run off. You're gonna run over 0:29:32.960 --> 0:29:34.640 the next bridge and see what's going on. You're gonna 0:29:34.640 --> 0:29:36.760 see it, go over the next ridge and next thing 0:29:36.800 --> 0:29:38.640 you know, it's been dark for three hours. You don't 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:40.920 know where you're at, no clue where your pack is. 0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:44.200 You know, It's like I do I now every time 0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:46.120 I think like, yeah, I leave my pack, I'm like, no, 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:48.680 you will not leave your pack. Yeah, yeah, you're not 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:51.280 gaining much in it, even if you're carrying all your gears. 0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:53.720 So now if you're at thirty five pounds, you know 0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:57.280 minus rife plus your minus, if you always have that 0:29:57.360 --> 0:29:59.360 with you, you hunt right to dark, you kick out 0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:01.040 a flat spot, you're going to sleep, and you wake 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:03.480 up and you go when you compare that to try 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:06.320 and to go back to camp, get back into a spot, 0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:08.760 trying to figure out where you're at, hiking in the dark, 0:30:08.800 --> 0:30:12.160 all that other ship, Mandy, you're just way ahead of 0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:14.520 the game. In my opinion that and that's what I 0:30:14.560 --> 0:30:16.960 always try to do. I'm not gonna say it always happens, 0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:20.440 you know, because sometimes it just doesn't make sense. But 0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:24.640 typically on longer hunts, it's everything goes with you every step, 0:30:25.000 --> 0:30:27.200 and then you know you can back out and throw 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:30.680 a camp up. But I don't know if I've ever 0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:33.040 seen somebody leave their pack behind and have it work 0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:39.680 out to the time. Countless times I've seen, and myself 0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:43.360 included dropping packs, not once. I can't think of one 0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:46.400 time it was like, thank god, I've even like, he God, 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:48.680 I didn't bring my backpack. I've even taking mine off 0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:50.560 and then like got away from it and then I 0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:53.760 thought about it, took away point. You know, it's just like, yeah, 0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:57.880 never leave your pack, Never leave your pack. So did 0:30:57.960 --> 0:30:59.840 already mentioned you guys both killed a thing in Unlimited 0:30:59.880 --> 0:31:04.760 you I wanna explain this now. Earlier I called Pete 0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:07.120 and said, hey, add up. How many big horn tags 0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:10.800 there are? Okay, state of Montana. How many big horn 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:15.760 tags are available in this state of Montana lottery tags? Yeah, 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:19.360 I'm gonna start even more bases in this Okay, this 0:31:19.400 --> 0:31:21.680 is for New Jersey cat ladies so they can understand 0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:29.360 we're talking about, Um, there's there's uh, this is this. 0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:31.160 I'm gonna I'm gonna trim this up a little bit 0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:36.200 and say there's three types of hunting tags. Yeah, I 0:31:36.240 --> 0:31:37.800 need to jump in. When you don't like something, I 0:31:37.880 --> 0:31:40.880 to say, I'm trying to simplify it without two two 0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:44.840 types might be the most simple. Laders govern tas. Okay, okay, okay, 0:31:45.000 --> 0:31:48.880 So you got There's the thing we call over the 0:31:48.880 --> 0:31:51.960 counter tags OTC tags. It's a kind of tag where 0:31:52.520 --> 0:31:56.880 if you're hunting deer in Wisconsin, Michigan, wherever, and you 0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.640 can go down to the gas station and buy a 0:31:59.720 --> 0:32:04.200 life anybody, anybody, any time, just go in, you buy 0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:10.360 your deer license. In that situation, the resource is strong 0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:13.520 enough to meet all of the demand, all of the 0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:18.640 demand on the resource. There's no restriction on allocation of opportunity. 0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:21.360 Anyone who wants to go can go. When you get 0:32:21.360 --> 0:32:26.480 a population of animals that has more demand than supply, 0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:30.000 you need to limit how many people are gonna get 0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:34.720 an opportunity to hunt. And you do this by having 0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:39.840 what we call limited draw tags lottery tags. And what 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:42.920 they do is they find a democratic way to allocate 0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:45.320 the tags to all the people who wish they could go, 0:32:45.960 --> 0:32:49.040 and it generally works at you fill out the application 0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:50.760 and send in a little bit of money or sometimes 0:32:50.760 --> 0:32:54.720 a lot of money. The state um does a drawing, 0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:57.360 pulls names out of the hat, and then they hand 0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:01.960 out tags. And some tags are lottery draws, and it's like, 0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.520 if you fill out your materials, you'll probably get it, right, 0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:09.520 you know, you could be you could be almost guaranteed 0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:12.560 to get it because there's one hundred of them available 0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:17.600 and in most years only guys apply, so they're limiting, 0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:23.440 but it's easy to drop. The third kind of tag 0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:28.520 is like, I'm gonna do the third kind of A 0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:33.240 and the third kind of beat the third kind of A. 0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:38.320 The third kind of tag is awarded not democratic, but 0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:42.080 it's awarded to the highest bidder, okay, and there's very 0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:44.920 few of those in the country. The reason I bring 0:33:44.960 --> 0:33:46.760 that kind of and that's the thing that there's a 0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:52.000 thing called landowner tags. I am doing A and B three. 0:33:52.320 --> 0:33:54.800 A is a landowner tag where a guy owns a 0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:58.400 big gas chunk of land and it provides core vital 0:33:58.440 --> 0:34:02.880 habitat and so the rewards this individual for providing good 0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:05.760 while theife habitat by giving him some tags that he 0:34:05.800 --> 0:34:09.200 can do with as he wishes, and he can sell them, 0:34:09.640 --> 0:34:15.000 use them, give him to his nephew. Three B is 0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:19.400 a governor's tag that's sold to the general public. Highest bidder. 0:34:20.080 --> 0:34:28.160 Is everybody cool with this? STI permit governor's tags. What's 0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:32.040 what makes governor's tag so valuable is that many of 0:34:32.080 --> 0:34:38.560 them you can hunt all year anywhere that they issue tags. 0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:42.719 What do you mean all year? There's so like you 0:34:42.760 --> 0:34:46.800 buy the Arizona Governor's tag. Because here's the thing, was 0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:49.600 she It doesn't matter because he doesn't shed his horn. 0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:55.879 He's not like you know, so you could feasibly hone 0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:57.799 when you can hunt when no one's hounting. When she 0:34:57.800 --> 0:34:59.719 would she really if you draw like the if you 0:34:59.760 --> 0:35:01.719 get the governor's tag elk tag, you're not gonna go 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:05.280 in May and shoot some bowl of six inch velvet 0:35:05.320 --> 0:35:07.800 stubs sticking out the top of his head. But what 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:10.879 she was like? Why not? So they sweetened it up 0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:14.600 by letting you hunt year round, And they sweetened it 0:35:14.680 --> 0:35:19.279 up by ah, you tell them to get rid of 0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:21.000 that gun. I'm tell him to get rid of the guy, right, 0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:23.600 I wasn't pop it. It wasn't out he handed you see, 0:35:23.640 --> 0:35:25.560 he handed me gum. He was like, oh, you want 0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:27.839 some gum. I was like, no, dude, I don't want 0:35:27.880 --> 0:35:32.600 I don't want some to take your gun out. So, uh, 0:35:32.719 --> 0:35:37.040 where was that? We're talking about Governor's tex Governor's tag. 0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:39.879 But yeah, but so you can hunt anywhere in the state, 0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:41.520 but you can't hunt anywhere in the state. You can 0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:44.080 hunt anywhere in the state that hunting for that species 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:46.480 is allowed in some form or another. I mean that 0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:53.280 makes sense, right, or glacier because now the highest selling 0:35:53.360 --> 0:35:58.360 Governor's tag in the country happens to be in Montana. Correct, 0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:01.280 And every year it go that always makes the news. 0:36:02.960 --> 0:36:04.719 Often times it goes to a guy who owns the 0:36:04.880 --> 0:36:09.759 chain of sandwich shops. Sandwich shops he likes. A man 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:11.920 with a chain of sandwich shops like to buy the 0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:14.719 governor's tags. The guy that owns Jimmy John's right, the 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:19.200 same guy. It's the same guy. He's bout some numbers. 0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:23.359 It is it limited to just Montana resident residents ever 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:28.719 bought the Montana go Okay, and uh, it's always in 0:36:28.760 --> 0:36:33.560 the vicinity of between over three hundred thousand dollars every 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:36.840 year is a little different. Um, but I think between 0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:43.240 two to five dollars. So with that kind of like timeline, 0:36:43.400 --> 0:36:47.839 what's the percentage of that person, Like, um, what's their 0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:50.560 success rate? These guys are these guys? Yeah, they're not 0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:54.239 hunting them though they're trigger men. When a guy buys 0:36:54.280 --> 0:36:57.520 the governor tag, what he does he hires a whole posse. 0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:03.279 He hires a posse of of eager young fellers who 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:08.040 go out and scour in this state. They scour the 0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:13.359 Missouri Breaks. So the biggest rocky mountain big horns in 0:37:13.400 --> 0:37:16.480 the world is the General's amis Johnny Street. The biggest 0:37:16.560 --> 0:37:18.400 rocky mountain big horns in the world come out of 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:21.520 the Missouri Breaks. There's some tankers in Alberta. What's that 0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:32.120 area now, Bertha Line? But big, big ass. You're like, yeah, 0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:35.000 just stay you stand behind a big horn. Look at 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:37.239 the way that scroll. I was going to ask you 0:37:37.480 --> 0:37:41.520 because we had a video YouTube. Are you telling Joe 0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:48.080 Rogan about like how big those hanging way below what 0:37:48.160 --> 0:37:50.359 I tossed you in the garage? That honest Yeah, I 0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:52.759 was picking up meat for the cookbook shoot that were 0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:56.200 actually in town doing this feat And he's like Hey, 0:37:56.040 --> 0:37:57.960 you haven't he used to, he's and he throws me 0:37:58.800 --> 0:38:02.800 a set of frozen You need to make a extra 0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:07.359 big pack for packing those time. So that's the governor's tax. 0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:09.799 Now when when it dude buys a governer's tag, This 0:38:09.840 --> 0:38:13.239 guy generally like, you're a trigger man. The guys of 0:38:13.280 --> 0:38:16.759 bibles are trigger man. They don't have time, right, They're 0:38:16.800 --> 0:38:18.480 not gonna go out and spend the whole summer out 0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:21.560 sweat is that they have all of the time in 0:38:21.600 --> 0:38:24.600 the world. No, they're not here. Not here. That's the difference. 0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:29.720 In Montana, you have to hunt within the rate. Well 0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:33.600 some seasons. Every state handles the governor's tax is in 0:38:33.640 --> 0:38:36.040 the general hunting season, just like everybody else who would 0:38:36.080 --> 0:38:39.719 draw the tags. Yeah, basically what they get here is 0:38:39.760 --> 0:38:42.640 they get to hunt any unit. So um and actually 0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:45.080 I don't believe that there's any area here that they 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:49.359 can hunt that there isn't already I've never heard. Yeah, 0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:52.200 I've never heard of exclusive access. And they don't have 0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:57.600 exclusive You can go to river Bridge where you want, 0:38:57.640 --> 0:38:59.279 and you can go to places that might only have 0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:01.960 that might only otherwise to give out one tag. But 0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:06.319 what so, I mean oftentimes a guy will buy a 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:09.320 governor's tag because he already knows what he's going to 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:13.799 be going after, because they'll get ten, twenty whatever. They'll 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:16.680 hire glasses who will go out to the areas that 0:39:16.680 --> 0:39:20.319 everyone knows holds big, big horns. And these guys are like, 0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:24.000 these are real woodsmen. Those are the guys hunting the ramp. 0:39:24.280 --> 0:39:29.480 And they'll put together a dossier on every sheep they 0:39:29.480 --> 0:39:32.200 can find in the unit, and the guy will peruse 0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:35.840 the dossier. Come on, the detail of this kind of 0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:38.800 stuff would blow your mind. I've given you the version 0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:42.120 that doesn't make people that angry. So but so the incentive, 0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:44.680 like long story shirt, the incentive is that they spend 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:47.440 a lot of money and then it goes back into conservation. Right. Yes, 0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:50.560 there in lies the rup So okay, I wasn't getting 0:39:50.560 --> 0:39:57.400 all this not gonn get a little bit bar uh okay, 0:39:59.000 --> 0:40:03.799 let's up eighteen for you to Martin versus Waddel was 0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:07.399 a Supreme Court decision, and it was a Supreme Court 0:40:07.400 --> 0:40:12.640 decision that settled a dispute between an oysterman got a 0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:16.799 commercial oyster harvester in the New Jersey meadow lands and 0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:24.080 a landowner who traced his ownership of the land to 0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:28.160 a land grant made by King George the Second to 0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:32.400 the Duke of Earl, I believe. And when King George 0:40:32.440 --> 0:40:35.440 the Second gave this land of the Duke of Earl, 0:40:35.480 --> 0:40:38.719 who passed along down the line to him, he gave 0:40:38.800 --> 0:40:42.880 him the land. And with the land came all the fishings, huntings, 0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:47.680 hawkings and foulings. Because in Europe, when you own the land, 0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:53.000 you own the animals. Now the guys out picking oysters. 0:40:54.440 --> 0:40:58.279 The guy says, you can't pick oysters. I own the 0:40:58.320 --> 0:41:01.880 oysters because I owned the land up against the water 0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:03.680 where you're picking oysters. Goes all the way to the 0:41:03.719 --> 0:41:08.920 Supreme Court. The Supreme Court decides, they say this, They say, 0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:12.000 because we have the Declaration of Independence, and the Declaration 0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:15.480 of Independence stripped all of the rights of the sovereign, 0:41:15.760 --> 0:41:18.080 stripped all of the rights of the king, and gave 0:41:18.120 --> 0:41:21.000 it to the people. So by virtue of the Declaration 0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:23.480 of Independence, we are deciding that the animals in this 0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:26.400 country belong to the people, that you do not belong 0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:30.239 to the king, and the animals will be administered on 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:35.080 the people's behalf by their state. And it was meant 0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:37.560 to be that we had a system of the democratic 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:44.279 allocation of wildlife. Governor's tags are a perversion of the 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:47.560 democratic allocation of wildlife because you're selling it to the 0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:52.840 highest bidder, lottery draws or democratic with your name in 0:41:52.880 --> 0:41:56.880 the hat. Everyone's at the same chance. However, here's where 0:41:56.960 --> 0:41:59.160 it's the kind of thing where I don't agree or 0:41:59.239 --> 0:42:04.000 disagree because of that money is spent on the ground 0:42:05.160 --> 0:42:08.839 for big horn conservation and big horns are absent, Like 0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:11.240 we've done a lot for recovery. We don't even scratched 0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:13.279 the surface. I'm putting big horns back where they block, 0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:18.960 like elk absent from their historic range in this country. 0:42:19.040 --> 0:42:20.640 You would never get that because it seems like elk revery, 0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:22.600 but they're not there. Used to be elk in Michigan, 0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:24.200 you know, And I mean there's some number, but they 0:42:24.239 --> 0:42:25.960 used to. Like if you look at elk distribution in 0:42:26.000 --> 0:42:27.640 this country at the time of European contact is the 0:42:27.640 --> 0:42:32.200 whole damn country almost. So there's a lot of work 0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:33.640 to be done on big horns, and that's a big 0:42:33.680 --> 0:42:39.200 gass chunk of money every year. Maybe it's not fair. 0:42:39.840 --> 0:42:44.160 It's very very hot topic, hot contentious topic, and both 0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:49.480 sides are right my first years. They're both wrong first 0:42:49.560 --> 0:42:52.560 years guiding in Arizona. I can't remember. I think I 0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:54.560 was still scouting you because I didn't have the client 0:42:54.680 --> 0:42:57.120 with me. But I was going to hit the spot 0:42:57.120 --> 0:42:59.880 out that was like two hours almost from where our 0:43:00.160 --> 0:43:05.480 staying via truck and then um like side by side 0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:07.560 because the road was so rough, right, So get up 0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:10.279 trailer like thirty minutes, get to a rough road, plump 0:43:10.320 --> 0:43:12.560 side by side, and then run another hour and a 0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:15.359 half in the dark trying to get to this spot 0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:20.040 at daylight to see who was hanging around. So no, ELK, 0:43:20.600 --> 0:43:23.319 I think I was just going to check a water hole. You, Yeah, 0:43:23.400 --> 0:43:25.040 as I'm kind of closing it on the spot where 0:43:25.040 --> 0:43:29.320 I'm supposed to get huh yeah, down in this area. 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:32.239 Can you add this on your story? Yeah, down in 0:43:32.280 --> 0:43:34.000 this area, you could take a bucket of water and 0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:35.520 dump it out on a road and the bullet come 0:43:35.520 --> 0:43:39.280 out and wallow in it. Yes, sometimes tell that story 0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:45.520 added in somehow weave it in. Yeah, I don't. I 0:43:45.560 --> 0:43:48.400 don't know if they've ever actually made a wall by 0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:50.880 the thing that they had seen spots where there was 0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:54.120 like old tracks, maybe like the remnants of some wallowing 0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:57.520 in a road like in an old dry and they said, oh, 0:43:57.560 --> 0:44:01.239 I wonder what would happened, you're yeah, we just they 0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:03.800 happened to have whatever. You know, it was fifty gallons 0:44:03.800 --> 0:44:05.440 of water in the truck for whatever reason, probably to 0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:08.680 fill up the trailer, and they dropped six gallons into 0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:11.920 this mud hole and put a trail cam up in 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:14.160 the tree and came back twenty four hours later and 0:44:14.160 --> 0:44:21.080 sure enough it's a dry place. You weaved it right in. 0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:24.440 So continued, But yeah, I'm buzzing down the road two hours, 0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:27.040 you know, through the darkness and trying to look at 0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:28.920 my GPS make sure I'm in the right spot, getting 0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:32.160 ready to start hiking, and uh, I kind of see 0:44:32.200 --> 0:44:34.600 like the flash of like where my lights might hit 0:44:34.680 --> 0:44:37.200 some other like tail lights or something. As I'm kind 0:44:37.200 --> 0:44:38.920 of getting closer from getting to park, and I think 0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:40.359 I had to park. Maybe it was like the end 0:44:40.360 --> 0:44:43.120 of the road, or I forget what the reason was 0:44:43.160 --> 0:44:46.720 why you had to stop there. But anyways, I'm pulling 0:44:46.760 --> 0:44:50.200 in and I come around one or more corner, and 0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:52.440 also I can see that there are trucks there, you know, 0:44:52.480 --> 0:44:54.840 and there's some people and they're awake too, must be hunters. 0:44:54.880 --> 0:44:56.879 I mean, there's the only reason people would be out there, 0:44:56.920 --> 0:44:59.560 you know, awake at that time in the morning. And 0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:02.960 as I pull up, it's like the whole camp is like, 0:45:03.000 --> 0:45:05.080 who's that, you know, and they turned and I must 0:45:05.120 --> 0:45:08.480 have seen twenty headlamps turn in my direction and they're 0:45:08.480 --> 0:45:11.359 just shining up all these trucks and I'm like, holy ship, 0:45:11.440 --> 0:45:12.800 and I kind of got scared. So I'm like, what 0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:14.799 what what what? What? What? Why? Why are you guys 0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:22.719 all out here? It's party? And so I just kind 0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:25.320 of kept rolling, went on, did my scouting, and then 0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:27.880 later it didn't take long, you know, through who I 0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:30.040 was with, you know, there was some texting phone calls 0:45:30.040 --> 0:45:31.520 and they're like, yeah, do you guys have a guy 0:45:31.600 --> 0:45:34.000 down here this morning? And they're like, yeah, we've been 0:45:34.000 --> 0:45:37.040 on a big Bowl and we've got seventy trail cameras 0:45:37.040 --> 0:45:40.759 out um, you know, we got the guy coming in tomorrow. 0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:43.399 And I was like, all right, I'm not gonna hang 0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:45.640 out here any longer. But there was a Governor's tag. 0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:49.279 Yeah yeah, I mean, I'm not kidding. It was like 0:45:49.320 --> 0:45:52.120 twenty headlamps all turned at once, like who's rolling in 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.200 there on our spot? On this big bowl that we've 0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:56.360 been looking for. So then what kind of tips do 0:45:56.360 --> 0:46:02.520 you think that those guys get you? Can you fill 0:46:02.560 --> 0:46:05.000 in some of the details on the dudes that find 0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:08.040 the rams for the governor's tag? Guys, have you been 0:46:08.080 --> 0:46:11.480 involved in that? No? I haven't. I haven't that interests you. 0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:17.279 Uh no, not not necessarily, but but not because I 0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:20.040 have anything against it. There's just you know, I'd rather 0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:24.319 be scouting for myself to um. Now, when you say 0:46:24.360 --> 0:46:25.640 you have nothing against it, what do you mean? I 0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:26.960 mean I don't have anything against it? But what do 0:46:27.000 --> 0:46:29.319 you mean by that? Well, I think it is something 0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:32.560 to be against it. It' no, I personally don't know. 0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:34.399 I think that it's a hot topic. You know. It's 0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:37.839 interesting because just for the reasons we're talking about. Yeah, yeah, 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:41.319 some people don't like the idea that that you can 0:46:41.360 --> 0:46:44.520 just go by what what what somebody else has to 0:46:44.560 --> 0:46:47.040 put in for. But you have the chance to go 0:46:47.120 --> 0:46:48.600 by it. I have the chance to go by it. 0:46:48.960 --> 0:46:51.239 You know, I could mortgage my house. I could do 0:46:51.280 --> 0:46:53.120 you know, any of those things and throw my name 0:46:53.120 --> 0:46:55.040 in the hat if it is that important to me. So, 0:46:56.520 --> 0:46:59.640 you know, the fairness you're saying, you would mortgage your 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:08.399 house to buy the Governor's not like you gotta bee. 0:47:08.680 --> 0:47:12.279 I don't know, I thinking about yeah, sweethearts to be 0:47:12.400 --> 0:47:16.279 talking about something thinking about no, But I mean, I 0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:18.160 mean we're all free, we're all free to raise our 0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:22.680 hand at those auctions. So so yeah, and I yeah, 0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:25.080 I see both sides of it. And it's different, you know. Um, 0:47:25.120 --> 0:47:27.160 but if someone said, like, hey, you like to you're 0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:28.719 good at fine and cheap, would you like to do 0:47:28.800 --> 0:47:32.399 some scouting for me, you just uh wouldn't. I don't 0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:34.719 have time. I don't have time to go scout for 0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:37.960 myself these days, you know. So it's maybe it's just 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:40.920 a different spot that. Yeah. And I've never never been 0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:44.320 approached to it, I'm not. But we do have several 0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:47.279 close friends that have been involved in the process. Yep, yep, 0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:50.400 for sure. And you know you hear, you hear all 0:47:50.400 --> 0:47:53.120 different types of stories, you know, like you saying with 0:47:54.440 --> 0:47:57.200 you know ten twelve guys. Uh, the guys I know 0:47:57.320 --> 0:47:59.359 have been involved. Are you know a couple of guys 0:47:59.400 --> 0:48:03.520 out there bust in their ass to do scouting year round? Well, 0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:05.520 I wouldn't say y're around. You know, they're typically not 0:48:05.600 --> 0:48:07.840 in those areas in the winters, but you know throughout 0:48:07.880 --> 0:48:12.200 the summers and and yeah, I mean, so somebody pays 0:48:12.239 --> 0:48:14.239 for it at the end, somebody's paying for them to 0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:18.160 be they are they are there. Those are like crackman, 0:48:18.280 --> 0:48:21.080 those are the crack commando hunters. Yeah, there's no woods 0:48:21.080 --> 0:48:26.640 in the Missouri River breaks there the brakes, you know, 0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:29.840 and you look at the history of the Montana Governor Tag. 0:48:30.000 --> 0:48:32.240 You know historically they weren't up here hunting the brakes. 0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:34.560 You know, back in the late or in the early 0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:37.680 and mid nineties, they were hunting Perma Paradise and they 0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:42.640 were hunting wrong. Absolutely, yeah, Scott and oh yeah, those 0:48:42.640 --> 0:48:46.319 guys and I want to say it, Scot, I might 0:48:46.360 --> 0:48:48.759 have it wrong. There was there was a guy who 0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:52.439 bought it two years in a row, chasing one ram 0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:56.160 or as the story goes, um somewhere in that nineties 0:48:56.200 --> 0:49:00.440 time frame out of Perma Paradise or one of those units. 0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:03.640 I mean, it's a true mountain hunt. It's uh and 0:49:04.880 --> 0:49:06.600 you know what I mean, they're in the timber that 0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:09.640 that so so you know you have to take it 0:49:09.640 --> 0:49:16.879 all with a grain of salt because it's uh one unfair. No, No, 0:49:16.960 --> 0:49:20.160 absolutely take me to task if you just don't know 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:22.640 that I described it the wrong way. No, No, absolutely not, 0:49:22.680 --> 0:49:25.120 because but I will say, in my opinion, I think 0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:27.960 that there's a vast difference between a governor tag in 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:30.320 Montana with the guys I know that have been involved 0:49:30.360 --> 0:49:33.040 in the work and all the rest of it, in 0:49:33.080 --> 0:49:35.719 comparison to what you might describe where you have a 0:49:35.719 --> 0:49:39.680 twelve month season, um, you know in one of these 0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:41.680 other states and the boat shot in August when there 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:45.960 isn't even a hunting season. So those are two different animals. Yeah, 0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:48.360 whether one's right or whether one's wrong, I'm not saying, 0:49:48.360 --> 0:49:50.920 but those are that's that's a that's a different deal. 0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:53.880 Because these bodies do some of the Governor's sheep Desert 0:49:53.920 --> 0:49:57.480 sheep tags, yeah, down in Arizona. And these are some 0:49:57.560 --> 0:49:59.880 dudes that like to be out. They like to be 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:01.360 out in the wood or not. They like to be 0:50:01.400 --> 0:50:04.120 on the desert and they like to be out the 0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:07.279 desert for months on end, and they like to look 0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:10.680 through b knoculars. That that's what these guys like to do. 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:14.840 And they're they they're the ones that are hunting those sheets. 0:50:16.320 --> 0:50:18.759 It's just like the guy that's one point, I'm not 0:50:18.800 --> 0:50:21.160 gonna let you change my mind about not to try 0:50:21.200 --> 0:50:23.160 to change my mind anything like. Those are the people 0:50:23.160 --> 0:50:26.640 that hunted the sheet for sure. Every now and then, though, 0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:29.040 I bet you must get somebody that actually wants to 0:50:29.120 --> 0:50:31.959 hunt on their own, and it doesn't some other guys 0:50:32.000 --> 0:50:34.520 do the leg where. Yeah, there's a good friend of our, 0:50:34.760 --> 0:50:39.040 Lorenzo from Go Hunt has the Idaho Big Horn Governor's 0:50:39.040 --> 0:50:43.399 tag this year and he's going d I y. Really, Yes, 0:50:44.280 --> 0:50:46.560 he's going to Hell's Canyon all on his own, really 0:50:47.160 --> 0:50:51.839 on the Governor's coolest guy ever. That's cool. But Steve, 0:50:51.960 --> 0:50:54.120 someone paid you to go scout for them to the 0:50:54.160 --> 0:50:58.640 Governor's tag, would you do it? Listen? Man? Uh, at 0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:01.839 the time that I would have been at the at 0:51:01.840 --> 0:51:06.839 a time, absolutely, but I wouldn't have been qualified. Like 0:51:06.880 --> 0:51:09.359 at the time that I would have jumped at the opportunity, 0:51:09.400 --> 0:51:12.680 I wouldn't have been Not that I'm qualified now, I 0:51:12.680 --> 0:51:15.040 can make it like some sort of argument now that 0:51:15.080 --> 0:51:17.799 I would be that I would be able to go 0:51:17.880 --> 0:51:20.000 scrape up some sheep and maybe find some sheep in 0:51:20.000 --> 0:51:22.240 a place that people hadn't known they were there. Whatever. 0:51:22.320 --> 0:51:26.040 So I like to wander around the through binoculars. Um. 0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:28.200 But yeah, at a time I would have jumped at it, 0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:32.359 but I would have been a shitty hire did later 0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:33.640 been like, I don't know why I did that? Do 0:51:33.760 --> 0:51:38.040 that job camp up there with his girlfriends some van 0:51:38.680 --> 0:51:44.560 so uh um no, So anyhow, that's that's uh three 0:51:44.600 --> 0:51:50.839 beat okay? How many? Okay? Drawing So so the Governor's tag, 0:51:50.880 --> 0:51:52.239 you buy that for a whole shipload of money. You 0:51:52.239 --> 0:51:54.880 get to go hunt if you want to draw a 0:51:55.080 --> 0:52:03.040 tag in the vicinity Air governors tag holders like the Hunt, 0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:08.280 meaning the best units in the country. You have about 0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:13.360 a percent of a percent. It's about one in a 0:52:13.440 --> 0:52:18.360 thousand less than that. Yeah, you know, we'd have to 0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:19.920 look up. I can tell that I haven't put in 0:52:19.920 --> 0:52:22.520 for fifteen years and I haven't drawn it yet. Oh 0:52:22.640 --> 0:52:27.319 yeah you are. You are less than one nineteen. I've 0:52:27.320 --> 0:52:29.800 been putting in for nineteen years. They've been doing bonus 0:52:29.880 --> 0:52:32.719 points for fourteen or whatever the hell is. Yeah, that's 0:52:32.800 --> 0:52:34.319 right in the back of their eggs. You can look 0:52:34.320 --> 0:52:36.640 it up for each unit. But you know, I want 0:52:36.640 --> 0:52:38.239 to say a lot of them are in that you know, 0:52:38.320 --> 0:52:41.440 four tenths of a percent or five. But if you 0:52:41.520 --> 0:52:44.719 draw and in some tags get better. Like you know, 0:52:47.120 --> 0:52:48.960 we're just talking about rams too, because you can draw 0:52:49.120 --> 0:52:51.319 U take like my old girlfriend, you take first year 0:52:51.400 --> 0:52:54.080 she ever applied, But we're talking about rams. There are 0:52:54.120 --> 0:52:57.000 some units that have slightly better odds, and those tend 0:52:57.080 --> 0:52:59.960 to be units um that don't grow big gas ramp 0:53:00.160 --> 0:53:02.799 when you see even good odds and good odds. What 0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:05.719 we're referring to is a three to five percent draw. 0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:11.040 I don't think there's such a two to on some years, 0:53:11.320 --> 0:53:13.520 that would be the best odds you could find in 0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:17.600 Montana and chasing, and that would be the extremely good odds. 0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:19.560 And when those odds come up, it's usually because the 0:53:19.600 --> 0:53:22.680 weird fluke happen, so like a bunch of attention focuses 0:53:22.719 --> 0:53:26.600 somewhere else. Everyone then looks and goes like, oh wow, 0:53:27.200 --> 0:53:29.520 now that the results came out, I see that last 0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:32.480 year you had a two percent chance of drawing in 0:53:32.520 --> 0:53:36.000 this unit. I'm gonna try that next year and that's like, yeah, 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:38.680 you and every other dude in the world is gonna 0:53:38.760 --> 0:53:42.399 see that, and then you're all gonna pounce on that unit. 0:53:42.480 --> 0:53:43.920 And then the next year you're gonna look in that 0:53:44.040 --> 0:53:46.640 unit had a point five percent chance of drawing because 0:53:46.680 --> 0:53:49.359 everybody saw that. It was a two percent. So you're 0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:51.160 not the longest short of it is, you're not gonna 0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:54.719 draw big horn tag. My brother drew big warntag. Very good. 0:53:54.960 --> 0:53:57.560 Um this year, No, no, no, A few years ago, 0:53:57.600 --> 0:53:59.160 a lot of years ago. We had fun though. Man, 0:53:59.239 --> 0:54:03.760 we had a great time. He drew down at um 0:54:03.800 --> 0:54:08.480 just outside of Gardener. Oh, very good. There's an unlimited 0:54:08.560 --> 0:54:11.760 unit across the road. Yeah, but he drew the cinembar 0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:18.799 mountain there. Uh so there's that you're not gonna draw one. 0:54:19.480 --> 0:54:21.399 If you do draw one, you're gonna get a ramp, 0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:24.080 right Yeah, Well if you show up and put in 0:54:24.080 --> 0:54:27.239 some time, you kill ramp. It was a hundred nineteen tags. Yeah, 0:54:27.760 --> 0:54:30.440 and I don't know if we missed a unit on there, 0:54:30.440 --> 0:54:34.920 but it was just looking it up beforehand at success 0:54:35.040 --> 0:54:37.920 rate and so and this is this is off of it. 0:54:39.120 --> 0:54:42.480 This is off of just the tags issued, so that 0:54:42.480 --> 0:54:45.239 that's not even assuming everybody hunted. This state has a 0:54:45.239 --> 0:54:48.080 shipload of relative to all other states, Like this day 0:54:48.120 --> 0:54:51.080 has a shipload of tags. They gave out a hundred 0:54:51.120 --> 0:54:53.839 plus tags. Yeah, I think it. Well, this this has 0:54:53.840 --> 0:54:56.279 it at a hundred nineteen but I would say it's 0:54:56.320 --> 0:54:57.880 there within a couple of them. Does you say how 0:54:57.920 --> 0:55:01.279 many mugs applied for a hundred nineteen tags? M hm No, 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:08.200 Well times of hungry right or more so, if you draw, 0:55:08.800 --> 0:55:13.200 you're gonna have a high quality sheep hunt and if 0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:16.160 you put in your time like you will kill a sheep. Yeah. 0:55:16.719 --> 0:55:19.399 But now keep in mind all this ship has nothing 0:55:19.440 --> 0:55:21.200 to do with anything. We're just laying the ground where 0:55:21.680 --> 0:55:24.400 what I want to talk about. There are a couple 0:55:24.400 --> 0:55:31.160 of spots where there's a different system in place, and 0:55:31.200 --> 0:55:34.920 these are the famed in some circles. These are the 0:55:35.000 --> 0:55:41.000 famed unlimited units, and they're very remote areas in Montana 0:55:42.120 --> 0:55:48.200 where any where it's over the counter where any time 0:55:48.320 --> 0:55:49.800 to kind of over the colm, you gotta put it in. 0:55:49.800 --> 0:55:51.560 You gotta fill out the application and send it in. 0:55:51.960 --> 0:55:56.040 But anyone that wants can go. Try to get the 0:55:56.040 --> 0:55:59.799 sheet guaranteed draw guaranteed draw. You fill in your application, 0:56:00.320 --> 0:56:11.520 you can hunt sheep. Yes, the application may one, Okay, 0:56:11.560 --> 0:56:14.040 it's unlit by May one. You send in your thing, 0:56:14.200 --> 0:56:17.120 you can go. And theise are the most not the 0:56:17.200 --> 0:56:20.359 most yeah, like borderline, the most rugged areas in the state. 0:56:21.080 --> 0:56:22.960 I would argue outside of the state. I mean that's 0:56:23.000 --> 0:56:27.200 some of the earlier stuff in the lower for what 0:56:27.239 --> 0:56:29.440 they do to what they do to protect the herd 0:56:31.040 --> 0:56:35.440 is they put a mortality quota down where they're like, 0:56:36.600 --> 0:56:42.120 anybody that wants can come hunt. But once you boys 0:56:42.239 --> 0:56:49.279 kill what two once to get killed, it's over. So 0:56:49.320 --> 0:56:53.120 you gotta be calling because that's what if it was 0:56:53.120 --> 0:56:57.640 a draw hunt, they'd be given her unit per unit 0:57:00.040 --> 0:57:02.760 sheep can get killed. Yeah, and what's the cutoffs? Remember, 0:57:02.800 --> 0:57:05.320 like with bears and units like that, it used to 0:57:05.320 --> 0:57:09.280 be like seventy two hours buffer periods. Yeah, I feel 0:57:09.320 --> 0:57:11.600 like yeah, and I feel like one of them is 0:57:11.640 --> 0:57:13.320 shorter than that. I think that that one out of 0:57:13.360 --> 0:57:17.320 gardeners twenty four. How often does it go over though 0:57:18.080 --> 0:57:21.120 pretty rarely. Every year is a little different. You hear 0:57:21.160 --> 0:57:24.200 about it happening more back in the day. I've heard 0:57:24.200 --> 0:57:25.920 a lot of stories of you know, in the night 0:57:26.040 --> 0:57:31.040 for satellite communications or yeah, because people wouldn't get word. Yeah. 0:57:31.080 --> 0:57:34.800 And in some of the unlimited units, Uh, what makes 0:57:34.840 --> 0:57:37.960 them tricky is it the sheep aren't even there correct 0:57:38.040 --> 0:57:40.800 until the weather turns bad, So you could have the 0:57:40.840 --> 0:57:43.160 whole season pass and the weather never gets shitty enough, 0:57:43.200 --> 0:57:44.919 and the sheet like when we when when my brother 0:57:45.000 --> 0:57:47.520 drew a big horn tag, we're hunting sheet that are 0:57:47.640 --> 0:57:51.040 coming off lightning peak and you could hunt on open day. 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:53.480 You could go there and cover every square inch of 0:57:53.520 --> 0:57:57.000 the unit. But they're literally like there are not cheap 0:57:57.080 --> 0:58:01.120 in the unit. Correct, And then one day there are 0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:04.400 sheep in the unit because they migrate down into the 0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:08.200 unit and then you go down there and there they are. Um. 0:58:08.240 --> 0:58:10.040 So some of the unlimited units are like that. But 0:58:12.880 --> 0:58:14.960 on the unlimited units to have or they have a 0:58:15.040 --> 0:58:19.440 mortality to there's some years that no one gets the two. Oh. Absolutely, 0:58:19.680 --> 0:58:22.600 it's it's very regular. So I mean last the quota 0:58:22.720 --> 0:58:29.000 never gets met. Last year com Yeah, last year five 0:58:29.040 --> 0:58:34.400 O two didn't didn't is what these specs say. So yeah, 0:58:34.440 --> 0:58:36.200 I mean half of them and and I think that 0:58:36.200 --> 0:58:38.760 that's pretty normal. That's pretty normal that half of them 0:58:38.800 --> 0:58:42.480 won't fill out. Yeah. Well, and you have to take 0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:46.680 into consideration that the season opens September. There's no weapons restrictions, 0:58:46.720 --> 0:58:49.320 so you know most people are hunting with a rifle 0:58:49.800 --> 0:58:53.760 and goes until the Sunday after Thanksgiving. So what is 0:58:53.840 --> 0:58:57.480 two and a half months and an unlimited numbers of 0:58:57.520 --> 0:59:00.880 people going there and they can't scrape up two ramps. 0:59:01.080 --> 0:59:05.960 They sold two d unlimited tags last year. Yeah, that's 0:59:05.960 --> 0:59:07.800 what the specs said. So did you you got one 0:59:07.880 --> 0:59:14.600 last year? That's it. I'm surprised if it's that low. Yeah, 0:59:14.680 --> 0:59:18.040 I mean you got killed eight eight. So the success 0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:23.479 rate was, uh two point six seven, So two point 0:59:23.560 --> 0:59:25.480 six seven percent of the guys that throw in on 0:59:25.560 --> 0:59:32.280 the unlimited get yeah. Yeah, yeah, And I mean it's 0:59:32.440 --> 0:59:35.800 and that's that's pretty standard. Um, I you know though 0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:38.600 those numbers aren't. That's not dude. Yeah, that's a normal year. 0:59:38.720 --> 0:59:42.120 That's that's a normal year. And you know, and take 0:59:42.160 --> 0:59:43.680 all of these with a grain of salt because you 0:59:43.680 --> 0:59:45.640 you know, you you pull these off the fishing game websites. 0:59:45.680 --> 0:59:50.200 Ouf there's if we're off a tenth percent. Yeah yeah, 0:59:50.960 --> 0:59:56.320 So now what year did you do this? Two? Did 0:59:56.320 --> 0:59:58.280 you try a lot of years before you got one? 0:59:58.720 --> 1:00:01.640 Two years? Did you guys get yours? Did you have 1:00:01.760 --> 1:00:07.960 you both gotten yours in the same location, different units? Yeah? Yeah, 1:00:08.320 --> 1:00:10.400 all right, So tell me what happened, like, like, give 1:00:10.440 --> 1:00:12.080 me the rundown on what happened when you did it? 1:00:12.840 --> 1:00:15.360 Your first year? Start with your first trip. Oh yeah, 1:00:15.440 --> 1:00:18.920 Well my first year, I had just got done Honey 1:00:18.920 --> 1:00:23.240 in Alaska, and um I took a RAM up there, 1:00:23.640 --> 1:00:26.520 and uh, I was a non resident. I wasn't a 1:00:26.560 --> 1:00:28.480 resident of Montana at that time, so I bought the 1:00:29.120 --> 1:00:31.360 I bought the the over the counter non resident tag 1:00:31.600 --> 1:00:34.680 for the unlimited units and I came down and I mean, 1:00:34.720 --> 1:00:38.280 you were non resident Montanas, non resident Montana at that time, 1:00:39.280 --> 1:00:44.760 and uh, you know, I came down and and just 1:00:44.800 --> 1:00:48.880 gave it everything. I had just flew down to Montana. 1:00:48.960 --> 1:00:53.800 Your with your up backpack that you made yourself, That's 1:00:53.840 --> 1:00:57.240 exactly what it was, and struck off into the mountains. Yeah, 1:00:57.280 --> 1:00:59.160 struck off into the mountains. And you know it's a 1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:02.960 by yourself. Yeah. Yeah, but it was an interesting story 1:01:02.960 --> 1:01:05.160 because it was it was before I don't know, it 1:01:05.200 --> 1:01:08.720 was a few days before the season started and I 1:01:08.800 --> 1:01:11.520 was trying to get on. Yeah yeah, but you know, 1:01:11.760 --> 1:01:15.160 the more I learned about it there that rarely happens. Really, 1:01:15.200 --> 1:01:18.240 did you sure hear about it? Yeah, but it's kind 1:01:18.240 --> 1:01:20.120 of like you hear the same stories where you have 1:01:20.200 --> 1:01:21.840 to be their opening day and be on a RAM 1:01:21.960 --> 1:01:24.920 or you'll never fill it. Well, I mean the data 1:01:25.440 --> 1:01:29.280 tells you that that's just not the case. So but regardless, 1:01:29.280 --> 1:01:31.200 So I'm standing in the parking lot, I'm getting all 1:01:31.200 --> 1:01:35.080 my stuff together, and I'm in this trailhead and there's 1:01:35.080 --> 1:01:36.640 a guy kind of getting his stuff together. I don't 1:01:36.640 --> 1:01:37.960 know if he's hiking or what he's doing. And then 1:01:38.040 --> 1:01:41.720 Allison a rifle case comes out and we're starting from 1:01:41.760 --> 1:01:44.120 the same trailhead and there's only you know, there aren't 1:01:44.160 --> 1:01:46.800 a ton of them throughout, you know, these units, because 1:01:46.800 --> 1:01:49.680 you're going into the wilderness. And so I figured, well, 1:01:49.680 --> 1:01:52.440 I'm gonna go talk to the wilderness with the capital W. Yeah, 1:01:52.440 --> 1:01:57.120 it's readily designated wilderness. Yes, their tooth wilderness. Yeah. And 1:01:57.280 --> 1:01:59.520 so I just said, well, I better go chat with 1:01:59.560 --> 1:02:03.880 this guy. Yeah. It's like four days in you take 1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:07.640 different routes, you're both standing on the same mountain. So yeah, 1:02:07.680 --> 1:02:08.840 I went in and talk to him. He was a 1:02:08.840 --> 1:02:10.640 really nice guy and he said, yeah, this is my 1:02:10.720 --> 1:02:13.000 seventh year of doing this, and I was like, man, 1:02:13.080 --> 1:02:15.760 that's that's awesome. You've got some stamina on this. It's 1:02:15.840 --> 1:02:18.760 in the back of my head I'm thinking he hadn't no, 1:02:18.840 --> 1:02:23.320 he hadn't killed no, you know, you know, well, it's 1:02:23.320 --> 1:02:24.760 like kind of quison. How long are you going for? 1:02:24.920 --> 1:02:27.560 He's uh, six seven days, you know each time, and 1:02:28.440 --> 1:02:30.840 and and so I'm thinking you must be looking for 1:02:30.880 --> 1:02:32.880 something pretty special. So I asked him, I said, well, 1:02:32.960 --> 1:02:35.000 you know, how many how many legal rams you ever seen? 1:02:35.640 --> 1:02:38.240 You know, you pass over some I'm trying to get 1:02:38.280 --> 1:02:42.880 some information so that you know, Bootleather, like, why did 1:02:42.920 --> 1:02:45.880 you want to come do this? Um, had you read 1:02:45.880 --> 1:02:49.280 about it? Well? I grew up here, you know, so 1:02:49.440 --> 1:02:52.560 I had always known if about it, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:55.080 But you know, at the time, it just wasn't as 1:02:55.120 --> 1:02:57.040 compelling because I grew up in the western part of 1:02:57.080 --> 1:02:59.480 the state at the time when that's where all the 1:02:59.520 --> 1:03:01.800 Governor Acts were coming out of. I mean, they're shooting 1:03:02.240 --> 1:03:05.520 one ninety plus rams out of multiple units out of 1:03:05.520 --> 1:03:09.440 the west, and you weren't going to take your name 1:03:09.480 --> 1:03:12.240 out of that hat because the odds back then we're 1:03:12.360 --> 1:03:13.960 you know, we're better than they are now. I'm not 1:03:14.000 --> 1:03:18.280 gonna say what they were. I don't remember, but you're like, yeah, 1:03:18.360 --> 1:03:20.880 I'm gonna go for one of the yeah, yeah. And 1:03:20.920 --> 1:03:22.360 then they were right out your back door, you know. 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:24.120 We go and take pictures of him during the winter, 1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:26.400 So you had this, yeah, this kind of attachment to 1:03:26.400 --> 1:03:30.960 it opposed to driving halfway across the state into unknown. Yeah. 1:03:31.240 --> 1:03:32.680 So but I was talking to the guy and I 1:03:32.680 --> 1:03:34.880 was asking, you know, how many legal rams he had seen, 1:03:34.920 --> 1:03:37.760 and he said, I've never seen one, and so you 1:03:37.760 --> 1:03:40.080 know that. Then like I shook his hand and good luck. 1:03:40.160 --> 1:03:41.720 I said, well, I'm gonna go this way if you're 1:03:41.720 --> 1:03:44.040 going that way, and kind of walked back to my truck, 1:03:44.080 --> 1:03:47.160 and it's thinking, well, what do I do now? You 1:03:47.200 --> 1:03:49.720 know this this dude sounds like he's put some time 1:03:49.760 --> 1:03:52.160 in here, and and it was pretty much the way 1:03:52.240 --> 1:03:54.640 my trip went. You know, I I covered a lot 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:56.960 of miles back in I don't know, spent five or 1:03:57.000 --> 1:04:00.040 six days. Someone laid some way point was but a 1:04:00.120 --> 1:04:02.200 pre way point. But if someone lays them like hey 1:04:02.280 --> 1:04:04.400 check here, check here, check their No, because I didn't 1:04:04.440 --> 1:04:06.040 at the time, I didn't know anybody who had ever 1:04:06.080 --> 1:04:08.680 hunted it. I've never you know, I've never talked to anybody. 1:04:08.720 --> 1:04:12.000 I yeah, I didn't have any information. And it was 1:04:12.040 --> 1:04:18.680 before these days where information, yeah, and misinformation, you know 1:04:18.920 --> 1:04:21.720 a lot of misinformation, which is kind of one of 1:04:21.720 --> 1:04:24.160 the reasons you know that we're talking about specifically what 1:04:24.200 --> 1:04:26.360 it is, because I feeled a few questions on that 1:04:27.040 --> 1:04:30.760 and um, but yeah, I went in, went in, and 1:04:30.800 --> 1:04:35.600 I didn't turn up USh sheep ushep. Yeah, I'm not. 1:04:35.800 --> 1:04:39.240 I'm not certain that where you're seeing sheep trails carved 1:04:39.280 --> 1:04:42.000 into the screen. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you can feel 1:04:42.000 --> 1:04:46.120 like you're where they sometimes there, yep, yep, you see sign, 1:04:46.720 --> 1:04:49.200 you see sign, but you know you kind of walk 1:04:49.280 --> 1:04:50.800 out of there. How many days did you do it? 1:04:51.720 --> 1:04:54.200 I'm trying five or six days. It wasn't super long, 1:04:54.960 --> 1:04:58.160 and um, and then I had to go back to Alaska. 1:04:58.920 --> 1:05:02.960 So you know after after that though, was at that 1:05:03.080 --> 1:05:04.720 point in time, were you like, I'm going to be 1:05:04.760 --> 1:05:06.560 like a sheep guy, Like I'm gonna be like a 1:05:06.600 --> 1:05:10.960 sheep dude who hunt sheep? Um? I not necessarily. I 1:05:11.000 --> 1:05:14.280 think it was just something that was really really enjoyable. 1:05:14.320 --> 1:05:17.400 And I knew that within the next few years that 1:05:17.480 --> 1:05:21.000 we were going to be moving back to Montana. So yeah, yeah, 1:05:21.080 --> 1:05:24.760 my my my time in Alaska was limited and saw 1:05:24.760 --> 1:05:27.439 I was looking for other opportunities and had the time 1:05:27.480 --> 1:05:29.480 and thought, well, I'm gonna, you know, go start to 1:05:29.480 --> 1:05:33.280 get my feet wet and but then after that I 1:05:33.800 --> 1:05:37.080 found out you're gonna have to figure out a lot 1:05:37.080 --> 1:05:38.640 more than this. This is what it's going to be, 1:05:39.360 --> 1:05:43.760 dude from the trailhead No, no, no, no, I didn't. 1:05:43.840 --> 1:05:46.160 But the sea it didn't get closed and there wasn't 1:05:46.160 --> 1:05:48.880 a ram taking the first part. No, not that season, 1:05:49.600 --> 1:05:53.080 if I remember right, And um no I didn't how 1:05:53.120 --> 1:05:56.800 many rams were in there? Ah, that's that's a I 1:05:56.840 --> 1:05:59.280 don't know. If they're killing two, there's got to be, like, 1:05:59.600 --> 1:06:04.280 there's guy to be a substantial number of male, substantial 1:06:04.360 --> 1:06:06.320 number of ramps. They can't I mean, if they are 1:06:06.440 --> 1:06:09.760 openly the idea that two are going to die. Yeah, 1:06:09.800 --> 1:06:14.280 they're very they're very conservative with those populations. Yeah. Um 1:06:15.000 --> 1:06:18.200 I I really couldn't speak to that. That's a tough one, 1:06:18.240 --> 1:06:20.480 and I think it's tough for everybody too, because some 1:06:20.600 --> 1:06:23.160 of it's, like you said, some of his migratory, So 1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:25.040 you don't know what you're gonna get coming into some 1:06:25.120 --> 1:06:27.520 of those units. So now you you might be making 1:06:27.560 --> 1:06:31.160 judgments off populations that you don't have access to except 1:06:31.200 --> 1:06:34.439 there they're during the winter or um or maybe they're 1:06:34.440 --> 1:06:36.680 not all migrating. That way, you have some of the 1:06:36.760 --> 1:06:39.320 sheep that actually don't live in the unit. Going the 1:06:39.360 --> 1:06:41.280 other way, that might be just on the fringes of 1:06:41.320 --> 1:06:44.880 the unit. You know, you have some sheep that are 1:06:45.400 --> 1:06:49.880 you know, quote transplant sheep that have been transplanted by 1:06:49.920 --> 1:06:52.840 one way or another. And then you have um, um, 1:06:53.120 --> 1:06:57.280 you know, these historical herds that have been there since 1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:00.320 whenever you start of time. So you have all of 1:07:00.360 --> 1:07:02.520 these different factors. And I think that's what makes it 1:07:02.560 --> 1:07:07.720 interesting is that it's not just one population. There's a 1:07:07.720 --> 1:07:09.680 lot of different things going on, and all of these 1:07:09.760 --> 1:07:15.320 units are much different when you go into them, and um, 1:07:15.360 --> 1:07:17.400 you know. But that that's that's what makes it cool. 1:07:17.440 --> 1:07:22.760 But I think it's also it's also you know, notable 1:07:22.800 --> 1:07:26.560 to be able to say that it's not a free 1:07:26.600 --> 1:07:30.040 sheep you know, it's not, you know, just just because 1:07:30.120 --> 1:07:32.960 it's the only open tag and I believe, but I 1:07:33.000 --> 1:07:35.520 know it's the only open sheep tag in the lower 1:07:35.600 --> 1:07:38.800 forty eight Canada. You don't need a guide, you know, Alaska, 1:07:38.840 --> 1:07:40.800 you need a guide, so pretty much in North America 1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:45.040 to my knowledge, if you're not a resident of last yeah, yeah, 1:07:45.160 --> 1:07:47.560 so I mean it's open to non resident aliens. You 1:07:47.560 --> 1:07:49.600 can come in here. From any country and buy that 1:07:49.640 --> 1:07:52.960 tag the same way. So there's really no restrictions on 1:07:53.000 --> 1:07:55.720 that portion. So it makes it a very unique thing 1:07:55.800 --> 1:08:02.760 that way. But in the same respect, it's, um it's 1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:05.280 not very successful. So what happened the second time you went? 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:10.960 The second time I went? Yeah, yeah, completely different out 1:08:10.960 --> 1:08:15.560 of that. But UM yeah, I just changed my whole 1:08:15.600 --> 1:08:17.479 program about everything that I was going to do. And 1:08:17.600 --> 1:08:21.080 is the only thing I did know, no different unit 1:08:21.360 --> 1:08:24.360 right next to it, and what you do differently, UM, 1:08:24.400 --> 1:08:28.960 I spent a lot more time glassing. I um like 1:08:29.320 --> 1:08:32.160 valley floors are from big Glass and two's it's it's 1:08:32.280 --> 1:08:34.519 kind of a little bit of everything, you know, because 1:08:34.560 --> 1:08:38.040 it just depends on where you can see from. UM 1:08:38.120 --> 1:08:41.160 and I just tried to spend as much time as 1:08:41.160 --> 1:08:43.960 I could that. That's really what it comes down to. 1:08:44.080 --> 1:08:47.240 I don't think that there's there's no trick. There's no 1:08:47.640 --> 1:08:49.479 that's I mean, if there was a trick, if the 1:08:49.560 --> 1:08:53.519 historical data, the historical kill data was always accurate and 1:08:53.640 --> 1:08:55.720 guys kept going back there there, there wouldn't be a 1:08:55.760 --> 1:08:58.960 sheep unit staying open for two and a half months. 1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:01.559 So you know, that's I think that's the cool thing. 1:09:01.560 --> 1:09:04.160 About it is that they just do what they do 1:09:04.280 --> 1:09:09.240 and you gotta figure it out that year. So um, 1:09:09.439 --> 1:09:13.080 probably then then that's that's what makes the population sustainable 1:09:13.120 --> 1:09:18.200 the unsustainable as it almost self manages. So what happened? 1:09:18.520 --> 1:09:22.599 So what happened? Uh? So I went days vote, I 1:09:22.640 --> 1:09:26.360 was I carved. I was gonna stay in for thirteen. Um, 1:09:26.520 --> 1:09:28.960 I think I ended up staying for twelve I believe 1:09:29.600 --> 1:09:34.000 twelve eleven or twelve and so, and then it was 1:09:34.520 --> 1:09:37.439 what had to been eleven because I ended up getting 1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:41.960 a ram on the tenth day. And yeah, ironically enough, 1:09:42.560 --> 1:09:45.320 as I was working through, you know, kind of my 1:09:45.400 --> 1:09:47.280 plan how I was going to work through the different 1:09:47.360 --> 1:09:50.519 drainages that I was hunting. I had spent a day 1:09:50.520 --> 1:09:52.800 and a half glass in this one area because this 1:09:53.000 --> 1:09:55.920 big country and it takes a lot of time to 1:09:56.000 --> 1:09:59.520 cover it, and there's a lot of timber, so it's um, 1:09:59.720 --> 1:10:01.760 you can sit there all day and you know, all 1:10:01.760 --> 1:10:03.600 of a sudden something appears, so they have to be 1:10:03.680 --> 1:10:07.200 very patient. And I had moved one drainage down, looked 1:10:07.240 --> 1:10:09.439 back to where I had just spent the last day 1:10:09.479 --> 1:10:11.880 and a half, and there he was, and it was 1:10:12.000 --> 1:10:16.679 right at dark and so I tried to get whatever 1:10:16.720 --> 1:10:19.839 sleep I could that night, and then got everything loaded 1:10:19.840 --> 1:10:23.120 in my pack well before daylight so I could make 1:10:23.160 --> 1:10:24.800 it back over to the glassing spot and try to 1:10:24.840 --> 1:10:26.439 pick him up again for ast thing in the morning. 1:10:27.040 --> 1:10:30.640 And I did and made it over there, and I 1:10:30.680 --> 1:10:34.679 found him, found him that morning, and he was feeding 1:10:34.680 --> 1:10:39.560 out in the slope, pretty exposed by all by all standards, 1:10:39.600 --> 1:10:41.920 kind of where where they were hanging out. But I 1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:44.600 knew the sun was going to be moving around on him, 1:10:44.720 --> 1:10:47.719 and so he dug a bed right there on that 1:10:47.920 --> 1:10:50.479 right just up out of where he was he was feeding. 1:10:51.080 --> 1:10:53.960 And so I waited about another hour, hour and a half, 1:10:53.960 --> 1:10:56.240 and sure enough sun came back around. As soon as 1:10:56.280 --> 1:10:58.160 the sun got on him, he picked up and went 1:10:58.240 --> 1:11:01.800 down into the timber yep. And so he kicked out 1:11:01.800 --> 1:11:03.680 a bed and and didn't use it for long, No, 1:11:03.760 --> 1:11:06.000 not for long at all, textbook sheet moves. As soon 1:11:06.040 --> 1:11:07.920 as the direct sunlight got on, let me move, you 1:11:07.960 --> 1:11:13.080 don't like it. And and so then it was probably 1:11:13.800 --> 1:11:16.599 o'clock in the morning, and it took me the rest 1:11:16.640 --> 1:11:18.920 of the day to get over to the other side, 1:11:19.320 --> 1:11:21.800 got up above him, found the bed that he was 1:11:21.840 --> 1:11:24.920 in that I had put him to bed in and 1:11:25.000 --> 1:11:27.960 he wasn't there, and this was probably not you mean, 1:11:28.000 --> 1:11:29.800 not the one in the timber, but the one the 1:11:29.920 --> 1:11:31.920 second bed. So you saw him going to the timber 1:11:32.000 --> 1:11:33.760 laid out yet, so I'm going to bed and then 1:11:33.760 --> 1:11:36.479 I was able to pick that one up, and so 1:11:36.520 --> 1:11:38.160 I knew he had to be in the area. But 1:11:38.280 --> 1:11:40.479 I just you know, I had kept working up and 1:11:40.479 --> 1:11:44.200 down this this rock spine, trying to pick up anything, 1:11:44.760 --> 1:11:48.280 figure out where he went, and all of a sudden, 1:11:48.320 --> 1:11:52.360 he just popped out in this little avalanche shoot and 1:11:52.439 --> 1:11:55.640 it was about three three and fifty yards and the 1:11:55.680 --> 1:11:59.360 wind was the thermals were just howling, and I mean 1:11:59.439 --> 1:12:03.160 probably and he just came out and walked straight across. 1:12:03.240 --> 1:12:06.000 It was probably twenty yards open. I never had a shot, 1:12:06.000 --> 1:12:07.920 and he disappeared into the timber on the other side, 1:12:08.479 --> 1:12:11.040 and I just, I mean, it was it was, and 1:12:11.080 --> 1:12:15.000 it was timber kind of forever out there. There was 1:12:15.040 --> 1:12:17.200 no big opening. So you feel like he had picked 1:12:17.240 --> 1:12:20.120 you up at that point or no, no, absolutely not. 1:12:20.280 --> 1:12:24.160 He's not gonna feed that timber though, it's not. No, no, 1:12:24.320 --> 1:12:29.720 it's not. But there was definitely enough grass that can 1:12:29.760 --> 1:12:32.000 travel in the timber two though, Oh I just could 1:12:32.040 --> 1:12:36.720 go to usware. Yeah, yeah. And so I spent the 1:12:36.800 --> 1:12:41.680 rest right until dark trying to find him. And I 1:12:41.720 --> 1:12:44.840 had moved down this rock spine and got my spotting 1:12:44.880 --> 1:12:47.320 scope out, and I found him and he was bedded 1:12:47.320 --> 1:12:49.880 behind this big pine and he had just tucked in 1:12:49.960 --> 1:12:51.800 just right. I couldn't see him until I got into 1:12:51.800 --> 1:12:56.040 the right vantage point and there he was, and had 1:12:56.320 --> 1:12:59.200 had my one shot kind of through the one area, 1:12:59.200 --> 1:13:01.760 and I fel well, this is the only opportunity I'm 1:13:01.760 --> 1:13:04.800 going to have, so so you know, but it was 1:13:04.800 --> 1:13:08.800 a great solid dress. You're on rock, laid down at 1:13:08.800 --> 1:13:11.720 all the time in the world, work through it. But 1:13:11.800 --> 1:13:14.960 there's a horn requirement there, there is, Yeah, yeah, but 1:13:15.080 --> 1:13:18.080 I have a three quarter curl. Yeah, it's half curl. 1:13:18.240 --> 1:13:21.679 How do you know it's it's it's from the base 1:13:21.800 --> 1:13:24.240 that everybody should look at the rigs, right, don't take 1:13:24.320 --> 1:13:26.120 my word for it, but it's from the base of 1:13:26.160 --> 1:13:27.840 the front base of the horn through any portion of 1:13:27.920 --> 1:13:31.560 the eye back. And they write that differently depending on 1:13:31.640 --> 1:13:33.640 the unit, right, like some of the some of the 1:13:35.000 --> 1:13:37.360 that I don't know about, don't know, yeah that I'm 1:13:37.400 --> 1:13:40.080 not sure. I mean I'm not saying from one unlimited unit, 1:13:40.160 --> 1:13:42.080 but is that the same as it is for for 1:13:42.240 --> 1:13:46.760 limited units? I believe so, Yeah, it's always thought it 1:13:46.760 --> 1:13:50.639 was the corner of the eye three quarter curel okay, 1:13:51.000 --> 1:13:56.439 looking at him sideways away in a circle. Yeah, and 1:13:56.560 --> 1:13:59.240 you and and did, and you had to figure that out. 1:14:00.280 --> 1:14:02.679 I haven't had a chain in the night before you saw. 1:14:02.920 --> 1:14:04.960 I had. I had looked enough and as soon as 1:14:05.040 --> 1:14:07.640 I you know, it was it was coming back up, 1:14:08.240 --> 1:14:10.120 you know, coming off at that bottom, and I could, 1:14:10.240 --> 1:14:12.840 I could see the horn coming back up, so that 1:14:13.520 --> 1:14:17.160 it's a pretty was he by himself? Yeah? How do 1:14:17.240 --> 1:14:19.160 they determine that then, because isn't it for doll sheep? 1:14:19.200 --> 1:14:21.640 It has to be all the full girl for dolls. Well, 1:14:21.680 --> 1:14:23.680 there's three things like in Alaska's three things that make 1:14:23.720 --> 1:14:26.160 a doll legal full curl. So you're looking at him 1:14:26.160 --> 1:14:29.439 on the side, he's got three circle or you count 1:14:29.560 --> 1:14:33.760 eight annually, so eight girlth rings, or he's broomed now 1:14:34.200 --> 1:14:38.400 it's he's broken off both of his lamb tips completely. 1:14:39.720 --> 1:14:42.479 So so I guess how do you deter like, why 1:14:42.640 --> 1:14:45.120 is it different in one state and different than the other. 1:14:45.200 --> 1:14:48.400 It doesn't have to do with like how old they Well, 1:14:48.400 --> 1:14:51.800 there's units in Idaho they used to have horn restrictions 1:14:52.360 --> 1:14:54.479 and now they don't have horn restrictions. Is that just 1:14:54.479 --> 1:14:56.600 because there's more Well what I heard was this, and 1:14:56.680 --> 1:14:58.559 this is just like a dude who used to guide. 1:14:58.640 --> 1:15:00.200 They're telling me and lots of you don't all the 1:15:00.280 --> 1:15:05.000 motivations right, Like a lot of times there's rules in 1:15:05.080 --> 1:15:08.040 place and and people have ideas about it, but without 1:15:08.120 --> 1:15:10.320 really digging into you don't know like why really did 1:15:10.360 --> 1:15:12.200 it beat? But a guy explained this to me and 1:15:12.479 --> 1:15:14.120 some of the Frank Church. There's like a unit in 1:15:14.120 --> 1:15:17.479 the Frank Church in Idaho that I think went no 1:15:18.120 --> 1:15:21.640 horn restrictions because I think there was some cases in 1:15:21.760 --> 1:15:28.800 which um people were not identifying rams properly and then 1:15:29.120 --> 1:15:33.680 due to the remoteness of the area, felt that rather 1:15:33.760 --> 1:15:39.960 than going in reporting, they just kept hunting. So they 1:15:40.600 --> 1:15:44.280 to take that to remove the obligation of a person 1:15:44.400 --> 1:15:46.760 have to make a prisoners maybe never hunted chap before, 1:15:46.800 --> 1:15:49.639 maybe not never hunt cheap again without putting that situation 1:15:49.680 --> 1:15:51.960 where they need to be able to judge the legality 1:15:52.040 --> 1:15:54.800 of that ram. They got rid of that requirement in 1:15:54.840 --> 1:15:56.360 that area and they just said, it's just up to 1:15:56.400 --> 1:16:00.280 the hunter's discretion. You're allowed to ram and and not 1:16:00.479 --> 1:16:02.800 made it to wear people. At one time, we were 1:16:02.800 --> 1:16:05.800 sitting and checking a ram. Were you there? We were 1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:09.479 checking a doll ram in Alaska one time, and while 1:16:09.560 --> 1:16:14.519 I was there, I saw three illegal rams. I got 1:16:14.600 --> 1:16:16.680 there and there was a guy checking an illegal ram 1:16:16.840 --> 1:16:20.639 not knowing it was illegal. There was an illegal rams 1:16:20.680 --> 1:16:23.200 sitting there that they had just confiscated from a guy, 1:16:24.000 --> 1:16:26.880 and Awarden came in with another illegal ramp that he 1:16:26.960 --> 1:16:28.400 had just taken from a guy that was trying to 1:16:28.479 --> 1:16:31.840 hide it from him. So I saw four rams during 1:16:31.880 --> 1:16:34.280 my visit, mine being one of them, and the other 1:16:34.439 --> 1:16:39.880 three were people bringing rams in and then saying I'm sorry, 1:16:40.120 --> 1:16:44.360 that's not full curl. H. I had a friend one 1:16:44.400 --> 1:16:46.160 time that had one held and he got it back 1:16:46.280 --> 1:16:48.760 and in the end they said, it's fifteen sixteenth curl. 1:16:48.920 --> 1:16:53.880 We'll let you keep me Listen. There is nothing more 1:16:53.960 --> 1:16:58.000 stressful in life. I'm talking even when your wife, like 1:16:58.120 --> 1:17:02.280 her water breaks. Nothing more stressful in life than the 1:17:02.400 --> 1:17:05.960 minutes that passed between you touching that trigger on a 1:17:06.040 --> 1:17:10.799 sheet and you're getting up to that sheet. It doesn't 1:17:10.840 --> 1:17:16.599 matter how much you look. It's just like it's not fun. 1:17:18.000 --> 1:17:25.640 Uh half curlers legal? No, three quarters I'm sorry when 1:17:25.680 --> 1:17:30.719 I'm saying three quarter curl legal. So he's I'm looking 1:17:30.760 --> 1:17:33.800 at the sheep right now by himself. So if he 1:17:33.880 --> 1:17:36.800 wouldn't have shown up, or if you just not looked there, 1:17:37.520 --> 1:17:41.599 I might still be hunting up. Have you ever gone back? 1:17:41.640 --> 1:17:43.880 Have you done it again? No? Well you're out for 1:17:44.040 --> 1:17:46.800 seven years, so I get you kill Yes, I get 1:17:46.840 --> 1:17:48.479 I get my tag back next year. So you never 1:17:48.560 --> 1:17:52.480 get to really get that good at it. Yeah, there's 1:17:52.600 --> 1:17:55.920 there's a few guys who have got good at it. 1:17:56.560 --> 1:17:58.280 Just yeah, I got I was read a book about 1:17:58.320 --> 1:18:00.600 there's like a book about the unlimited un you know, 1:18:00.680 --> 1:18:02.799 there's a book about big Horns. There's a big section 1:18:02.880 --> 1:18:05.360 in about the unlimited units. And there's some guys who 1:18:05.360 --> 1:18:08.080 are kind of had like some legendary status they'd got 1:18:08.160 --> 1:18:11.439 to yeah you know or whatever. Yeah, there are people 1:18:11.479 --> 1:18:13.000 that will go for a hat trick, try to get 1:18:13.040 --> 1:18:17.240 one from each district. So not what, so what happened 1:18:17.520 --> 1:18:21.000 you got one on your first attempt? Absolutely not? Oh no, 1:18:22.880 --> 1:18:24.040 I don't know. If we got to the end of 1:18:24.120 --> 1:18:27.519 Kurt story there you're sitting. Yeah, I got it, you 1:18:27.640 --> 1:18:30.160 got it. It's more. I think the night of camping 1:18:30.240 --> 1:18:31.960 after you shot the sheep is the best part of 1:18:32.000 --> 1:18:33.640 the story, so I think you should hear about that 1:18:35.640 --> 1:18:40.639 through the sheep went for a role. Yeah, the sheep 1:18:40.680 --> 1:18:43.040 went for a role, ended up you know, finding it. 1:18:43.160 --> 1:18:46.599 They're dark, and ended up just kicking out a flat 1:18:46.640 --> 1:18:50.200 spot behind a tree. Just and but you know, it 1:18:50.320 --> 1:18:53.639 was interesting because you had focused on it for so long, 1:18:53.720 --> 1:18:56.200 and I'm sure lots of people have experienced things like 1:18:56.320 --> 1:19:01.040 that where I couldn't sleep, you know, I was just 1:19:01.840 --> 1:19:06.000 so you're so excited, but but not in this excited yeah, 1:19:06.200 --> 1:19:10.320 where where you want to like jump around and not 1:19:10.400 --> 1:19:13.519 like you want publishers clearing out. No, no, no, kind 1:19:13.600 --> 1:19:16.599 of like kind of like it's just hard to take 1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:20.080 it all in. Yeah. I threw up within an hour 1:19:20.080 --> 1:19:24.320 of shooting on I puked. I don't know what balances 1:19:24.400 --> 1:19:29.559 were going on in me, but water wouldn't stand down. Yeah. Yeah, 1:19:29.600 --> 1:19:34.280 it's very similar. This is heavy, heavy, grizzly bear country 1:19:35.320 --> 1:19:37.760 and now you're camping with a dead hand of it, 1:19:37.880 --> 1:19:43.560 with a dead an Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so you know, 1:19:43.680 --> 1:19:46.840 but it happened. It was all right at dark, so I, 1:19:47.240 --> 1:19:49.160 you know, other than you know, taking care of the 1:19:49.800 --> 1:19:52.880 general cleaning of it. You know, I hadn't started any 1:19:52.920 --> 1:19:55.120 butchering or anything. But you know, from there it was 1:19:55.479 --> 1:19:59.519 just because there were so many griz in the area. 1:20:00.080 --> 1:20:01.679 Is back to the whole thing that we're talking about. 1:20:01.720 --> 1:20:03.960 Being able to make one trip, you know, that makes 1:20:04.000 --> 1:20:06.519 a big difference to not have to leave it behind, 1:20:06.680 --> 1:20:08.960 not have to figure out here in the wilderness. You 1:20:09.040 --> 1:20:14.160 have to sling it well. And you can't keep and 1:20:14.240 --> 1:20:18.880 cap the skull. Yeah, you have to take everything out 1:20:19.000 --> 1:20:22.559 and that that's a load. You can't skin the head. 1:20:22.640 --> 1:20:26.240 You can't skin the head. No, yeah, what's the thinking 1:20:26.280 --> 1:20:30.480 on that. That's a good question. I can only speculate 1:20:30.479 --> 1:20:32.639 because they don't they don't publish it in their eggs 1:20:32.720 --> 1:20:35.840 or anything. But my guests would would be that they 1:20:35.960 --> 1:20:38.960 can validate it's only forty eight hours old. You have 1:20:38.960 --> 1:20:42.000 to check it in four Yeah, I got it. Allows 1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:44.720 them to make some determination, absolutely, Yeah, you have you know, 1:20:44.840 --> 1:20:46.800 the eyes. You know, there's a lot of forensics that 1:20:46.880 --> 1:20:49.960 they can put together. It's not somebody's walking over into 1:20:50.000 --> 1:20:52.840 the next unit, you know, showing up three days later 1:20:52.880 --> 1:20:57.559 and saying hey, yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. Well then 1:20:57.600 --> 1:20:59.479 it took me the better part of two days to 1:20:59.520 --> 1:21:02.880 get to your yep. Yeah, yeah, I was just barely 1:21:02.960 --> 1:21:07.519 under the limit. But yeah, I mean it's uh yeah, 1:21:07.680 --> 1:21:11.240 it's a it's a very unique experience. I'm looking forward 1:21:11.240 --> 1:21:13.519 to going back again. It's up again next year. Yeah 1:21:15.520 --> 1:21:20.840 you're gonna go oh yeah, no brainer. Those three people 1:21:20.920 --> 1:21:22.720 you think that were they hunted it last year? What 1:21:22.720 --> 1:21:24.640 do you think the average number of days put in? 1:21:26.479 --> 1:21:27.920 I don't know, you know, and I don't know how 1:21:28.040 --> 1:21:30.880 they calculate that, because I was never quizzed on how 1:21:30.920 --> 1:21:33.360 many days that I spent. I don't know. If you were, 1:21:34.320 --> 1:21:36.559 I could take an educated guess at it, I would 1:21:36.600 --> 1:21:39.960 say seventy of the people that buy the tag go hunting. 1:21:40.400 --> 1:21:45.200 Oh you think so, I think so. Yeah. I haven't 1:21:45.280 --> 1:21:47.400 dabbled in this at all, but I feel like that's 1:21:47.439 --> 1:21:50.960 got to be high. Well only just from areas, just 1:21:51.080 --> 1:21:53.639 some units where I know, like even limited drawing units 1:21:53.680 --> 1:21:58.639 where you do look at like participation rates. Um, i'd 1:21:58.640 --> 1:22:00.840 be I don't know, I could be, I would be. 1:22:00.880 --> 1:22:03.160 I would be a little bit surprised A seven people 1:22:03.160 --> 1:22:05.680 put in some time of the people that do go home, 1:22:06.200 --> 1:22:10.000 No opinion somewhere in there of the people that I 1:22:10.160 --> 1:22:14.160 like to believe that these are pretty serious people that 1:22:14.560 --> 1:22:17.320 are investing in their time and they want to talk 1:22:17.400 --> 1:22:19.680 to anyone who's done it, who was like not an 1:22:19.680 --> 1:22:23.720 accomplished from well, I think people do try to go 1:22:24.040 --> 1:22:26.600 get their toes wet and very quickly decide this is 1:22:26.640 --> 1:22:29.479 not for them and this is not fun. And I 1:22:29.520 --> 1:22:31.320 think there are people like that that buy the tag 1:22:31.400 --> 1:22:35.280 and pretty quickly throw the towel in um. But on 1:22:35.360 --> 1:22:38.439 the flip side, the guys filling tags and the guys 1:22:38.479 --> 1:22:41.760 doing it year after year pretty hardcore about it. There's 1:22:41.800 --> 1:22:44.479 a pretty hardcore scene that goes out and does it. 1:22:44.520 --> 1:22:48.240 And I would argue puts in seven to fifteen days 1:22:49.000 --> 1:22:51.800 looking steep and still not fine and cheap, and you 1:22:51.920 --> 1:22:54.000 have to I mean, if if the success rates only 1:22:54.760 --> 1:22:59.200 less than three, you know you're gonna have to put 1:22:59.240 --> 1:23:01.040 in some time. Think you're gonna have to go your way, 1:23:01.080 --> 1:23:02.680 You're gonna have to have a lot of things all 1:23:02.760 --> 1:23:05.600 come together. It's night. You can be the best at 1:23:05.720 --> 1:23:08.160 dude in the world, but if you if if you're 1:23:08.200 --> 1:23:11.240 not in the right place at the right time, it's 1:23:11.280 --> 1:23:13.479 not gonna happen. So I think that that's that's kind 1:23:13.520 --> 1:23:15.200 of the interesting part is that it is. It's just 1:23:15.280 --> 1:23:17.640 a lot of time. So it's not like something you 1:23:17.680 --> 1:23:19.519 would like go out every weekend and go do like 1:23:19.600 --> 1:23:21.760 you need like a big chunk of time, like five 1:23:21.920 --> 1:23:23.960 to seven days you want to be serious about it. Yeah, 1:23:24.600 --> 1:23:26.439 but there's you guys are riven. The nature of the 1:23:26.479 --> 1:23:28.679 country wouldn't work do like weekends if you're not gonna 1:23:28.680 --> 1:23:30.760 go out for a couple of hours after work. No, No, 1:23:30.960 --> 1:23:33.320 I mean a lot of yeah, a lot of the 1:23:33.360 --> 1:23:35.559 sheep country. You know, it takes better than a day 1:23:35.600 --> 1:23:40.200 to access, and you know, while there are trails into 1:23:40.280 --> 1:23:43.439 this country, you're you're not spending a majority of your 1:23:43.479 --> 1:23:47.240 time on them. Um or if you are, you're probably 1:23:47.280 --> 1:23:52.080 not seeing sheep. Yeah, So how many times did you 1:23:52.120 --> 1:23:55.400 try before you got one? I killed a rim on 1:23:55.479 --> 1:23:59.120 my fourth year, So I met Kurt in two twelve 1:23:59.479 --> 1:24:02.800 and never knew anything about unlimited sheep hunting, but very 1:24:02.880 --> 1:24:07.599 quickly got the bug just from talking with Kurt Um. 1:24:08.040 --> 1:24:09.880 The next year or two thousand thirteen, was the first 1:24:10.000 --> 1:24:13.640 year I bought a tag, and I would argue I 1:24:13.720 --> 1:24:16.559 had better intel than were you guys. Were you guys. 1:24:16.720 --> 1:24:21.760 Were you guys working on backpacks together at the time? Ye? Were? 1:24:22.040 --> 1:24:24.880 I was working at SNAs at the time, and when 1:24:25.000 --> 1:24:28.160 Kurt brought Stone Glacier to market for a short time there, 1:24:28.200 --> 1:24:31.160 SNAs was the exclusive retailer. I was the marketing director 1:24:31.240 --> 1:24:35.759 of SAS and met Kurt and shot some product videos 1:24:35.800 --> 1:24:38.360 and photos with him and learned up on his backpack 1:24:38.439 --> 1:24:41.800 company that he was starting, and pretty quick there was 1:24:41.880 --> 1:24:44.679 building him in my garage after work to help Kurt 1:24:45.560 --> 1:24:49.160 chore is done. Yea. So that's where my involvement with 1:24:49.240 --> 1:24:53.840 Stone Glacier began, just kind of after hours, lending a 1:24:53.920 --> 1:24:56.880 helping hand when Kurt wasn't able to get everything done. 1:24:58.000 --> 1:25:01.920 But anyways, two thousand twelve met two bought my first 1:25:02.040 --> 1:25:05.400 unlimited tag. And what I was saying is I would 1:25:05.439 --> 1:25:08.600 argue that I had some of the better intel of 1:25:09.320 --> 1:25:12.519 unlimited cheap hunters. Kurt had done a tremendous amount of 1:25:12.520 --> 1:25:15.280 homework that he was generous enough to share with me, 1:25:15.439 --> 1:25:17.840 and I felt like I went into it with a 1:25:17.960 --> 1:25:23.040 lot of information, which in hindsight really doesn't mean a 1:25:23.080 --> 1:25:25.320 whole lot, Is that right? See? I thought it was 1:25:25.400 --> 1:25:27.920 like when I've because I've thought about this and you know, 1:25:28.479 --> 1:25:30.120 a good bit over the years, and like, I don't 1:25:30.160 --> 1:25:32.400 know why, because because some stuff is this way, maybe 1:25:32.439 --> 1:25:33.960 I wished it was this way. I thought I was 1:25:34.080 --> 1:25:38.200 like once you know what's up. But it's just different 1:25:38.240 --> 1:25:40.639 all the time. So the most valuable piece of advice 1:25:41.000 --> 1:25:44.439 Kurt gave me, beyond the maps, beyond the spreadsheets, beyond 1:25:44.560 --> 1:25:46.599 every little piece of advice he gave me, the most 1:25:46.680 --> 1:25:48.519 valuable thing that ever stuck to me was don't go 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:53.320 chasing dead cheep. I like that because you get some 1:25:53.400 --> 1:25:58.080 information that there's been five there's been five rams killed 1:25:58.120 --> 1:25:59.800 there in the last twelve years, it's got to be 1:25:59.880 --> 1:26:04.439 the spot. Don't go chasing that cheap. He's not there anymore. 1:26:05.760 --> 1:26:08.600 And that there's a lot of truth. That there's a 1:26:08.760 --> 1:26:12.400 lot of truth because you're saying if that was the case, yeah, 1:26:12.479 --> 1:26:14.800 they'd all the seasons would all close in a couple 1:26:14.800 --> 1:26:17.680 of days, correct, And it's just not. And the other 1:26:17.800 --> 1:26:20.720 factor that you need to take into consideration is these 1:26:20.760 --> 1:26:24.600 are timber rams. These sheep live a tremendous amount of 1:26:24.680 --> 1:26:29.200 their life in the trees, so visibility is so low. 1:26:29.960 --> 1:26:32.760 Not only are there next to no sheep in there. 1:26:33.560 --> 1:26:36.240 The few sheep that are in there are extremely hard 1:26:36.280 --> 1:26:38.519 to find because they're spending so much time in the trees. 1:26:39.240 --> 1:26:41.679 So I started in two thousand thirteen and I dove 1:26:41.880 --> 1:26:44.559 head first into it, and I went on a big rip, 1:26:45.040 --> 1:26:48.760 big week long expedition, and I think I went in 1:26:48.880 --> 1:26:51.760 like five days before season opened. And on night one, 1:26:52.200 --> 1:26:53.920 I had scouted quite a bit that summer. I think 1:26:53.920 --> 1:26:56.519 I had done three different backpacking trips that summer into 1:26:56.520 --> 1:26:59.799 the bare Tooths, never seen a sheep, just scouted country. 1:27:01.080 --> 1:27:05.479 Night one, hiking in, I saw like eight nine sheep 1:27:06.560 --> 1:27:10.280 and a piece of g I just thought I had 1:27:10.320 --> 1:27:12.760 it figured out. None of them were legal rams. It 1:27:12.840 --> 1:27:14.920 was a family band using lambs and a couple of 1:27:15.000 --> 1:27:17.880 young you know, two or three year old ram banana heads. 1:27:17.920 --> 1:27:20.000 But we call him and I was like, well, there's 1:27:20.000 --> 1:27:22.000 gotta be his big brother coming up behind him. So 1:27:22.120 --> 1:27:23.840 I camped with him. I camped with them that night, 1:27:23.920 --> 1:27:26.200 I spent the next morning with him. Was like, there's 1:27:26.240 --> 1:27:28.840 no big brother here. And as much as I wanted 1:27:28.880 --> 1:27:30.559 to hang out with those sheep, because you're you're looking 1:27:30.600 --> 1:27:33.839 at the easter bunny, I mean, you have found an animal. 1:27:33.920 --> 1:27:36.439 You are not supposed to have found. So it's a 1:27:36.640 --> 1:27:39.400 fascinating animal to spend time with and to look at. 1:27:40.360 --> 1:27:41.800 And as much as I wanted to sit there and 1:27:42.120 --> 1:27:44.240 stay with those sheep, it was like, there's nothing to 1:27:44.280 --> 1:27:48.080 shoot here, keep moving. Never saw another sheep a week, 1:27:49.800 --> 1:27:53.400 So that was my year one. Actually this is a 1:27:53.439 --> 1:27:57.240 whole another story. But what, okay would it work? When 1:27:57.280 --> 1:28:00.599 does season end after Thanksgiving? So you still not into 1:28:00.600 --> 1:28:02.880 the ruck? Well, it matters. Some of these districts are 1:28:02.960 --> 1:28:05.840 very unique. There are migratory areas and some of the 1:28:05.920 --> 1:28:08.720 unlimited areas that with the right snowstorm and with the 1:28:08.880 --> 1:28:12.479 right day on the calendar, things might be a little 1:28:12.479 --> 1:28:14.719 easier than normal. And what I was going to suggest 1:28:14.800 --> 1:28:18.000 is whatever like to wait for him? No, that's tactic 1:28:18.040 --> 1:28:21.200 to wait for rams to find us late. That is 1:28:21.520 --> 1:28:23.280 the tail end of the season when the rams might 1:28:23.320 --> 1:28:26.439 be starting to think about rut. That absolutely is a 1:28:26.520 --> 1:28:29.360 tactic that people use, and I think they've viewed successfully. 1:28:29.439 --> 1:28:31.800 But yeah, it's tough. It depends on where you're at 1:28:31.840 --> 1:28:34.920 there because you know, some of some of that writting, 1:28:36.280 --> 1:28:38.760 you know, they move up to winter, so now you 1:28:38.920 --> 1:28:42.639 now you're at you know has been blown off. Yeah, yeah, 1:28:42.800 --> 1:28:46.240 so you know, the different herds do different things in there, alright. 1:28:46.320 --> 1:28:50.759 So some like on day three of that first year camped, 1:28:50.840 --> 1:28:52.519 I was camped on a really cool spot, kind of 1:28:52.560 --> 1:28:55.000 perched on a cliff, a very steep spot with a 1:28:55.080 --> 1:28:57.160 big drop off below us, and I was had a 1:28:57.200 --> 1:28:59.400 great view and I was posted up there for about 1:28:59.439 --> 1:29:03.040 a day and a half half and out comes a 1:29:04.120 --> 1:29:07.960 humongous black bear way below me. I has a big bear. 1:29:09.240 --> 1:29:11.040 And then I'm like, guh, it's feeding on something. It's 1:29:11.240 --> 1:29:13.800 like messing with something and digging and feeding on something. 1:29:13.840 --> 1:29:15.840 And I put the spotting scope on. It is eating 1:29:15.840 --> 1:29:19.600 a mountain goat. Yeah, And I don't know if he 1:29:19.680 --> 1:29:21.599 killed the mountain goat of the mountain goat fell and died, 1:29:21.760 --> 1:29:25.720 but he is consuming a large, dead white animal down 1:29:25.840 --> 1:29:28.200 below me. I'm like, that's a big bear and I 1:29:28.280 --> 1:29:30.600 love mountain goest. That's not cool that he's eating this 1:29:30.760 --> 1:29:33.519 mount goat. So like had it out for this bear. 1:29:33.840 --> 1:29:39.200 And a couple of days of not seeing sheep, you 1:29:39.320 --> 1:29:44.080 get burnt out quick, you lose. I mean, I think 1:29:44.600 --> 1:29:49.920 the stamina required this, the endurance, the mental endurance of 1:29:50.120 --> 1:29:53.479 not seeing an animal day after day after day. It's 1:29:53.520 --> 1:29:57.479 exhausting and it's very discouraging. And so it's bear showed 1:29:57.520 --> 1:30:00.720 up like that'll work. Bear season to open until the 1:30:00.720 --> 1:30:04.080 same day that sheep season open. Long story short, I 1:30:04.160 --> 1:30:06.599 watched this bear the next day going to another drainage. 1:30:07.080 --> 1:30:09.280 I was in the next drainage a couple of days later, 1:30:10.240 --> 1:30:12.960 and here's this big, giant bear again. And so I 1:30:12.960 --> 1:30:16.160 wound up shooting this bear. It was the worst decision 1:30:16.200 --> 1:30:18.160 in my life. I now had to pack a black 1:30:18.240 --> 1:30:22.560 bear out of the Beartooth Wilderness. It was it was 1:30:22.600 --> 1:30:27.719 a psychotic movie. Oh yeah, which is a damn shame 1:30:27.760 --> 1:30:30.679 because I had just gotten into the best sheep habitat 1:30:30.800 --> 1:30:33.800 that I had touched that whole week and I had 1:30:33.840 --> 1:30:35.800 to put a bunch of bear meat on my back 1:30:35.880 --> 1:30:39.280 and walk out. So that was year one and that 1:30:39.479 --> 1:30:46.880 was a very humbling experience and pretty discouraging. UM did 1:30:46.920 --> 1:30:50.040 it year after year. Did not see a legal ram 1:30:50.479 --> 1:30:56.240 until summer scouting of my third year. And I don't know, Hi, 1:30:56.360 --> 1:30:58.519 fact can speak for Curt here, but I've when I 1:30:58.640 --> 1:31:00.880 found a legal ram. You you like you are looking 1:31:00.920 --> 1:31:04.760 at Santa Claus. I can't I can't even begin to 1:31:04.840 --> 1:31:08.920 explain to you, Like the feeling of seeing an animal 1:31:09.080 --> 1:31:13.000 that you are I'm not supposed to have found. So 1:31:13.080 --> 1:31:16.560 it's a really cool thing and it's super addicting. So 1:31:16.640 --> 1:31:20.720 I found a sheep summer scouting, and uh, I had 1:31:20.800 --> 1:31:24.840 my plan, and so, you know, three or four days 1:31:24.920 --> 1:31:28.120 before season, was heading back in to the general area 1:31:28.160 --> 1:31:31.600 where I had seen this ram during the summer and 1:31:32.240 --> 1:31:36.040 I couldn't find anything. Season opened opening day. I'm hiking 1:31:36.120 --> 1:31:37.960 up into a drainage and as I'm coming over this 1:31:38.080 --> 1:31:41.200 big saddle, I run it. Here come three hunters towards me, 1:31:42.080 --> 1:31:44.920 and I realized that's they've got a mountain goat on 1:31:44.960 --> 1:31:47.240 their back, their goat hunters, and they filled a tag 1:31:47.439 --> 1:31:52.760 on opening day and I should talking great goat, congratulations. Hey, 1:31:52.880 --> 1:31:56.479 what are the odds you've seen some sheep more legal ram? 1:31:57.000 --> 1:32:00.439 Oh yeah, we saw one this morning. Like, you gotta 1:32:00.479 --> 1:32:06.679 be kidding me. You saw you saw I rama this morning? 1:32:08.840 --> 1:32:11.000 So they're like and I and I grilled him. I 1:32:11.080 --> 1:32:13.439 was like, let me be like, let's talk in detail 1:32:13.479 --> 1:32:16.040 about what you saw and where and exactly what it was. 1:32:16.120 --> 1:32:17.840 And they were very confident that they had seen a 1:32:17.880 --> 1:32:22.320 legal ram. So I climbed the highest peak to my 1:32:22.520 --> 1:32:26.000 right in that saddle. From that saddle, I went feet 1:32:26.080 --> 1:32:28.560 up to the tippy top of the peak and I 1:32:28.640 --> 1:32:31.120 sat down, and I said that was eight am. The 1:32:31.280 --> 1:32:33.400 in the morning, seven eight am, I ran into those 1:32:33.439 --> 1:32:36.400 people get up on top of the peak. I sat 1:32:36.439 --> 1:32:39.679 there all day. I was like, I know he's somewhere. 1:32:41.120 --> 1:32:45.799 He didn't vaporize. I sat there all day, and thirty 1:32:45.840 --> 1:32:51.360 minutes before dark, this ram comes loping through the saddle 1:32:51.520 --> 1:32:54.760 where I had talked to the goat hunters like full run. 1:32:54.880 --> 1:32:57.880 He looked scared. I you know, hunter, it's opening day. 1:32:58.040 --> 1:33:01.640 There's some traffic there, pack trains coming through some of 1:33:01.680 --> 1:33:04.880 these drainages, there's some commotion compared to a normal day. 1:33:05.320 --> 1:33:09.760 This ram just comes running through long a story. I 1:33:09.760 --> 1:33:11.920 sort of camped on that it wasn't opening day. I 1:33:12.120 --> 1:33:16.800 apologized this was prior opening day because I spent a 1:33:16.920 --> 1:33:19.080 day and a half with the sheep, not able to 1:33:19.120 --> 1:33:22.120 shoot him yet. So that's what it is. Goat season 1:33:22.200 --> 1:33:25.400 opens before unlimited season, so these goat hunters filled the 1:33:25.479 --> 1:33:28.599 tag call it September twelve. I can't shoot this sheep 1:33:28.680 --> 1:33:32.760 until September. So I find him, put him to bed. 1:33:33.560 --> 1:33:36.000 I lived with him for I didn't leave him for 1:33:36.240 --> 1:33:38.479 you know, I lost sight of him throughout the day 1:33:38.479 --> 1:33:40.599 and stuff. But I spent the better part of two 1:33:40.680 --> 1:33:43.960 days with the sheep. You know, the night of September. 1:33:45.120 --> 1:33:49.080 Next next morning is opening day. The sheep beds three 1:33:49.560 --> 1:33:52.960 yards from my tent, just me and the rim. That's it. 1:33:53.160 --> 1:33:56.360 And he's three yards away from my tent. I'm like, 1:33:56.439 --> 1:33:59.160 that's great, son's gonna come up. I'm gonna go dump 1:33:59.280 --> 1:34:02.120 this thing, and I'm I'm going to get this room. Well, 1:34:02.160 --> 1:34:06.680 that night, a horrible blizzard blew in. Hardcore snowstorm came 1:34:06.720 --> 1:34:11.920 in and uh, really nasty weather. And so I got 1:34:12.000 --> 1:34:13.160 up in the dark and I was like, I don't care, 1:34:13.200 --> 1:34:15.000 it's nasty out. I know where that sheep was sleeping. 1:34:15.040 --> 1:34:16.640 He's got to be somewhere close to there. Even if 1:34:16.680 --> 1:34:19.760 he moved, he's somewhere over there. So I go out 1:34:19.760 --> 1:34:24.320 in the dark and I got soaking wet and really cold. 1:34:25.040 --> 1:34:28.960 Sun came up. Sheep's gone. In hindsight, that sheep definitely 1:34:29.040 --> 1:34:31.000 high tailed it down into the timber when that weather 1:34:31.080 --> 1:34:34.120 blew in. I looked and looked for him that morning, 1:34:34.360 --> 1:34:37.439 and as hypothermia began to set in and as more 1:34:37.640 --> 1:34:41.800 bad weather began to blow in. I I've quickly realised 1:34:41.800 --> 1:34:44.240 I had to leave. It's like I can't, I can't 1:34:44.280 --> 1:34:47.200 stay up here in this state. So I hiked out. 1:34:47.800 --> 1:34:49.679 I went home, I did a load of laundry, slept 1:34:49.720 --> 1:34:52.240 in my bed, and I came right back and I 1:34:52.360 --> 1:34:55.920 hiked back in and I spent a lot of time 1:34:56.360 --> 1:35:00.160 looking for that sheep. I never saw him again. So 1:35:00.200 --> 1:35:02.240 are you glassing up all kinds of elkinship when this 1:35:02.360 --> 1:35:03.920 is going on? Or is it not like that place 1:35:04.000 --> 1:35:07.680 is pretty void of life? Grizzly bears, A lot of 1:35:07.720 --> 1:35:10.400 grizzly bears. You see a lot of grizzly bears. Sometimes 1:35:10.439 --> 1:35:13.680 you see goats, but no, there's I've seen one. In 1:35:13.920 --> 1:35:15.680 my four years of hunting in there, I've seen one 1:35:15.760 --> 1:35:18.799 elk heerd, a couple of mule deer, a couple of goats, 1:35:18.880 --> 1:35:22.719 and a bunch of bears in a couple of sheep. Yeah, 1:35:23.160 --> 1:35:25.519 so what year was that? That was my third season. 1:35:26.479 --> 1:35:29.240 And see, that's like I'm getting I'm dialing this in 1:35:29.320 --> 1:35:32.439 a little bit. I'm starting to regularly see sheep. I'm 1:35:33.280 --> 1:35:36.720 feeling a little more confident about it. And then uh, 1:35:37.800 --> 1:35:43.200 year four is almost repeat opening day found a ram 1:35:45.720 --> 1:35:48.840 weather blue in lost lost ram bad weather blue in. 1:35:49.520 --> 1:35:52.439 It was like absolute repeat. I went home, I walked 1:35:52.479 --> 1:35:55.960 out of there, hiked all the way out to let 1:35:56.040 --> 1:35:57.680 the weather. You know, you get these forty eight I 1:35:57.760 --> 1:35:59.479 think you can sit in your time forty eight hours. 1:35:59.600 --> 1:36:02.000 You can hike for ten hours and get out of here. 1:36:02.479 --> 1:36:05.280 What happens just like this wet shitty snow. You think 1:36:05.360 --> 1:36:10.240 like like I got three days of this two days again, 1:36:10.280 --> 1:36:13.479 it's all side. Yeah. So I went home. Whether whether 1:36:13.640 --> 1:36:17.040 the storm did some laundry went back in there, um 1:36:18.800 --> 1:36:21.519 turned up. No, I didn't turn up sheep. I camped 1:36:22.560 --> 1:36:25.280 next moek. My tactic throughout my four years of funting, 1:36:25.320 --> 1:36:27.600 which I still think is the most productive way to 1:36:27.640 --> 1:36:29.200 do it is to get to the highest point you can. 1:36:29.920 --> 1:36:32.800 And I don't think that's exactly Curt style, but that's 1:36:32.840 --> 1:36:34.640 how I hunted the unlimited is I would go to 1:36:34.720 --> 1:36:37.320 the tippy top of stuff and I would post up, 1:36:37.640 --> 1:36:40.800 and I would spend whole days sitting on mountaintops where 1:36:40.840 --> 1:36:44.280 I could just see everything, and then you turn around 1:36:44.439 --> 1:36:48.960 and you could see everything over there. So just keeping 1:36:49.240 --> 1:36:53.680 visibility in your favor. And something I didn't wasn't good 1:36:53.720 --> 1:36:58.240 at before I was hunted sheep and was uh, you know, 1:36:58.479 --> 1:37:01.000 talking with Curt about sheep hunting a lot was the sun? 1:37:01.160 --> 1:37:05.519 How important it is to plan your day around the sun, 1:37:05.640 --> 1:37:08.280 to work with it. Work with the sun, don't work 1:37:08.320 --> 1:37:10.920 against it. Always planning your whole day around I'm gonna 1:37:10.920 --> 1:37:13.320 be glass into the west in the morning, I'm gonna 1:37:13.320 --> 1:37:16.280 be glass into the east at sunset. And this is 1:37:16.800 --> 1:37:18.600 this is a tricky thing, man, because if you're up 1:37:18.640 --> 1:37:22.200 in a glass and tip and you got sixty degrees 1:37:22.240 --> 1:37:24.479 and stuff you want to look at when the sun 1:37:24.640 --> 1:37:26.720 is bad for one of where you're look in one 1:37:26.760 --> 1:37:29.719 direction everything is shadowed, and you look at another direction 1:37:29.760 --> 1:37:32.400 and everything is just glowing nice. It's like you gotta 1:37:32.439 --> 1:37:37.280 make a decision where like I'm gonna ignore the shadowed 1:37:37.320 --> 1:37:39.439 ship as good as I know it seems, and as 1:37:39.479 --> 1:37:42.000 much as there's probably animals over there, I'm gonna ignore 1:37:42.160 --> 1:37:44.560 that and just glass and stuff with the sun is 1:37:44.680 --> 1:37:47.679 really working for me. But it takes like that takes 1:37:47.760 --> 1:37:50.800 discipline because proofs of you waste your time staring to 1:37:50.880 --> 1:37:53.479 that shitty stuff. We meanwhile, the good side, they like 1:37:53.600 --> 1:37:56.840 the animals glow. Oh yeah, when the sun hits them. Yeah, 1:37:56.880 --> 1:37:59.560 you gotta put everything in your favor and using the 1:37:59.640 --> 1:38:03.040 sun to your advantage while glassing is certainly a good 1:38:03.080 --> 1:38:05.439 place to start, because then he said, they start moving 1:38:05.520 --> 1:38:09.479 to once the sun hits them, right. Yeah, A big 1:38:09.560 --> 1:38:12.800 horn sheep on average, I don't think likes to lay 1:38:12.840 --> 1:38:17.000 out bed, particularly in direct sunlight. I think like if 1:38:17.080 --> 1:38:19.719 a sheep beds in the morning in the in a shady, 1:38:20.120 --> 1:38:23.800 nice little spot, and at thirty eleven AM and the 1:38:23.840 --> 1:38:25.880 sun gets up a little higher and the sun direct 1:38:25.960 --> 1:38:29.000 sunlight is hitting that sheep more often than now, he's 1:38:29.000 --> 1:38:31.120 gonna get up and he's gonna go find a second 1:38:31.160 --> 1:38:36.639 bed for the day. He might move yeah yards into 1:38:36.680 --> 1:38:38.360 the timber. Yeah, he might move on the other side 1:38:38.400 --> 1:38:43.240 of his tree. Gone. Yeah. So uh anyways, went back 1:38:43.280 --> 1:38:48.680 in and turned up a ram right at first light, 1:38:48.840 --> 1:38:54.560 same ram, No no different sheep. And uh do you 1:38:54.720 --> 1:39:01.080 like you're like Joe unlimited? Now no gum. Now Jim 1:39:01.800 --> 1:39:04.400 turned up some sheep right at first light, made a 1:39:04.479 --> 1:39:07.360 quick move on him and moved in tight on him, 1:39:07.400 --> 1:39:11.479 and he pegged me. He I wound up being within 1:39:11.520 --> 1:39:14.080 a hundred yards of this ram, bumped him. Oh and 1:39:14.160 --> 1:39:18.000 he had he was bug eyed staring straight at me 1:39:18.080 --> 1:39:21.040 when I shot him. Oh that's one you got, Yeah, 1:39:21.040 --> 1:39:25.720 I got him, got you? Mm hmm. So now you 1:39:25.840 --> 1:39:29.719 got seven years seven years. Well, I drew a permit 1:39:29.800 --> 1:39:32.040 in Alaska, so I'm going to sheep hunting next month. 1:39:32.200 --> 1:39:37.680 Oh yeah, Drew gotch catch permit. So I'm going doll 1:39:37.720 --> 1:39:41.080 sheep hunting in August. Yeah, get one of these white 1:39:41.120 --> 1:39:44.519 ones hopefully. Yeah. Man, so but that one. Because you 1:39:44.560 --> 1:39:46.880 don't have a relative up there, you gotta right, you 1:39:46.880 --> 1:39:49.840 gotta hire a guy. Correct. Yeah, that'll be fun though, 1:39:50.160 --> 1:39:52.880 it'll be awesome. Yeah, it's gonna be a really fun trip. 1:39:53.479 --> 1:39:58.000 Fly in No, it's a hike in only it's a state. 1:39:58.080 --> 1:40:00.280 It's the state at state Park. It's Upper Eagle River, 1:40:00.680 --> 1:40:03.280 which is uh, you start at the nature Center. I 1:40:03.400 --> 1:40:05.720 think I'll have to connect you with my brother. Man, 1:40:06.080 --> 1:40:09.040 guys need resources, and for sure I'm going up on Monday. 1:40:09.080 --> 1:40:12.360 Actually yeah, so maybe we go get lunch with them. Yeah, 1:40:12.640 --> 1:40:17.559 but whatever, you know, stuffs living. When you live in Anchor, 1:40:17.640 --> 1:40:19.439 do you find a lot of dudes have a lot 1:40:19.479 --> 1:40:21.599 of dead ship in your garage throughout the fall? Man? 1:40:22.200 --> 1:40:25.920 Because that's this is like having a house thera. People 1:40:25.920 --> 1:40:29.439 are like, hey, man, I use your freezer. The amount 1:40:29.479 --> 1:40:31.920 of what's funny about his house the amount of bear spray, 1:40:33.280 --> 1:40:36.920 A lot of milk crates of bear spray. Because everyone 1:40:37.000 --> 1:40:41.360 flies to Alaska. Then they're always like somehow wind up 1:40:41.400 --> 1:40:43.479 sleeping in his house or storing ship in his house 1:40:43.560 --> 1:40:49.439 and he has like crates of pepper spray. Yeah, that's 1:40:49.479 --> 1:40:52.960 good man, those are good stories. Is it worth it? Like? 1:40:54.040 --> 1:40:57.479 Is it too hard? Are you interested in going? I'm 1:40:57.479 --> 1:40:59.680 not like asking because I'm not asking you like take me, 1:41:00.160 --> 1:41:03.240 but um, is that not interesting? Is it just like 1:41:03.360 --> 1:41:05.280 too hard to be? Like, Okay, I'll throw in with 1:41:05.360 --> 1:41:06.720 a body of mine. Is the kind of thing you 1:41:06.800 --> 1:41:09.439 kind of gotta be doing it for yourself. I was 1:41:09.560 --> 1:41:13.160 not really into solo hunting when I started this whole endeavor. 1:41:13.600 --> 1:41:16.400 I in fact didn't like it, and it was something 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:19.240 you have to get comfortable with because you find out 1:41:19.320 --> 1:41:24.479 really quickly it's very hard to find somebody to join 1:41:24.600 --> 1:41:26.720 you in the middle of the elk rut on a 1:41:26.760 --> 1:41:28.840 two percent hunt. On a two percent hunt, yeah, because 1:41:28.840 --> 1:41:30.640 if you had some sweet tag like like I like 1:41:30.760 --> 1:41:32.760 to jump in when friends draw like bitch and tag 1:41:33.280 --> 1:41:35.160 because like, yeah, we're going there. Is gonna ship run 1:41:35.200 --> 1:41:37.200 around everwhere We're gonna shot a big old one. Let's go. 1:41:37.720 --> 1:41:39.240 But to have it be like now, we're not gonna 1:41:39.240 --> 1:41:42.680 see anything anything. You like to come. There's lots of 1:41:42.720 --> 1:41:45.240 barrass you just like to come and watch me not 1:41:45.439 --> 1:41:48.000 get anything. It does interest me. I think I will 1:41:49.920 --> 1:41:52.120 this year. Yeah, it does interest me. I've got a 1:41:52.160 --> 1:41:55.360 couple of good friends who are giving it hell several 1:41:55.479 --> 1:41:58.960 years into it now, and it doesn't interest me because 1:41:58.960 --> 1:42:00.880 we have to do it again for seven years. You 1:42:00.920 --> 1:42:04.519 can try again and it's really exciting because Kurt gets 1:42:04.560 --> 1:42:08.559 his tag back next year, So you'd be loving now. 1:42:08.880 --> 1:42:13.280 Is it helpful? Um? If someone did want to go 1:42:13.560 --> 1:42:15.160 and like I'd like to go and just glass up 1:42:15.200 --> 1:42:16.640 with you, is that helpers? It just want to be 1:42:16.760 --> 1:42:18.320 not helpful because then you've got to deal with too 1:42:18.360 --> 1:42:22.120 many people's attitudes. More eyes. Yeah, I mean it's more 1:42:22.200 --> 1:42:26.360 eyes the split, yeah exactly. Yeah, I've I've never been 1:42:26.439 --> 1:42:28.200 in that situation. I can't really speak to it, but 1:42:28.240 --> 1:42:30.120 I would have to think if you have somebody that's 1:42:30.160 --> 1:42:32.960 like minded, that wants to spend the time and they 1:42:33.000 --> 1:42:36.880 want to pound glass, yeah, and that they don't get antsy, 1:42:37.000 --> 1:42:40.320 their patient. They know the program. But if you want 1:42:40.320 --> 1:42:42.720 to go along and think that, you know, it's like 1:42:42.880 --> 1:42:47.240 running gun and elk during you know, the September on 1:42:47.360 --> 1:42:50.800 the chase that it's not it's not, it's it's it's 1:42:50.960 --> 1:42:55.200 just a lot of misery and miles and then sitting 1:42:56.000 --> 1:42:58.519 for long periods of time. It's a nasty place, man, 1:42:58.760 --> 1:43:01.680 it is it is. You know, you're just And then 1:43:01.720 --> 1:43:03.320 there are lots of different ways that people can go 1:43:03.360 --> 1:43:06.080 about it. I know guys have been successful many different ways. 1:43:06.160 --> 1:43:08.560 But you know, typically you're not gonna go, you know, 1:43:09.040 --> 1:43:11.880 jump one up out of the timber and packs it's 1:43:11.920 --> 1:43:14.560 pack stock helpful. No, you can't take a worse in 1:43:14.600 --> 1:43:19.200 to this stuff. No, it's it's been it's been done. Um. 1:43:19.439 --> 1:43:23.519 But advantage no, now, I mean some of the country 1:43:23.560 --> 1:43:25.560 you can't. Some of the units can't even get the 1:43:25.600 --> 1:43:28.400 biggest advantage you can give yourself as time, the more 1:43:28.479 --> 1:43:30.640 time you just have to clock. You have to go 1:43:30.720 --> 1:43:35.880 punch the clock. Yeah. Now, how often does it happen? Um, 1:43:37.080 --> 1:43:40.120 the day one, you know, different ends of the unit whatever, 1:43:40.200 --> 1:43:41.800 like day one? By am I am? Do you guys 1:43:41.920 --> 1:43:45.360 are about do you guys get them? You hear about 1:43:45.439 --> 1:43:47.800 the old war store. I mean, there's there's stories of 1:43:47.880 --> 1:43:51.960 that happening, and I've never heard of it happening in 1:43:52.080 --> 1:43:55.639 recent years, but it has happened. It's definitely happened where 1:43:55.960 --> 1:43:59.360 opening day three sheep get shot and then there's still 1:43:59.360 --> 1:44:01.679 a twenty four a grace period where you can legally 1:44:01.720 --> 1:44:04.760 harvest a sheep within the next two days. So I'm 1:44:04.800 --> 1:44:10.640 with you. So give me um, give me like a 1:44:10.760 --> 1:44:14.080 give me a big stone glacier. Sales pitch man, you 1:44:14.200 --> 1:44:17.400 ever done that before? I got our general manager, right, Harry, 1:44:21.600 --> 1:44:24.400 So catch up popsicle to a lady in white gloves, Bud. 1:44:25.560 --> 1:44:27.920 That's a fact. That's a line from Tommy Boy. If 1:44:27.960 --> 1:44:30.519 nobody else picked up, I got a good sales pitch. 1:44:30.600 --> 1:44:33.320 Sales pitch. You know. I had seen him around a bunch. 1:44:33.400 --> 1:44:36.720 I was like, yeah, another backpack and hunting backpack. You know, 1:44:36.840 --> 1:44:38.840 it's pretty good. But I hadn't really like I had 1:44:38.920 --> 1:44:41.960 touched him in Schnais, I think, and you know, farted 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:44.920 around a little bit with him, and even I think 1:44:44.960 --> 1:44:47.960 I even had one Pete had shown me how do 1:44:48.000 --> 1:44:49.880 you use it? I carried around a little bit. But 1:44:49.960 --> 1:44:54.200 don't you tell everybody how we met um. How did 1:44:54.280 --> 1:44:57.800 we mean? We met in a bar right and we 1:44:57.960 --> 1:45:06.439 met a yoga class. I like that man. Kurt gave 1:45:06.520 --> 1:45:09.400 me a yoga pass for Christmas. One year I was 1:45:09.439 --> 1:45:12.240 doing some yoga. I walk in. This guy's got a 1:45:12.280 --> 1:45:15.680 meet you love it. I've been there six times. Yeah, 1:45:15.680 --> 1:45:17.200 it's the best. I like it a lot, so I 1:45:17.520 --> 1:45:18.880 wanted me to go last. There's a guy with a 1:45:18.920 --> 1:45:21.519 meat eater shirt on. I'm like, hey, you hunt. He's 1:45:21.520 --> 1:45:23.880 like yeah. In fact, I produced this television show called 1:45:23.960 --> 1:45:29.479 meat Eater Cool. That was pre uh the first time 1:45:29.479 --> 1:45:31.599 I saw you podcast with Randal and we went out 1:45:31.640 --> 1:45:34.200 to dinner and head beers. We went turkey hunting in 1:45:34.240 --> 1:45:38.479 the morning. Before that podcast, We've had some great turkey hunts. 1:45:39.360 --> 1:45:43.360 I'm a real redneck turkey hunter. Just kill him. I 1:45:43.600 --> 1:45:46.080 just get the turkey killed. And Janice is such an 1:45:46.360 --> 1:45:51.240 artsy turkey hunter. It's got to be this beautiful setup 1:45:51.280 --> 1:45:57.960 and I'm just just shoot the bird. Anyways. Sorry, doesn't 1:45:57.960 --> 1:46:01.360 serve me right. Talking about big old sales. Pitch yeah, 1:46:01.439 --> 1:46:05.920 act like, can I tell you story? The following story 1:46:05.960 --> 1:46:08.200 to the yoga class, and I'm like, oh sweet, yeah, 1:46:08.280 --> 1:46:11.160 good to meet you. If I see here again, don't 1:46:11.240 --> 1:46:14.799 see Pete, don't see pe, don't see p because one pass, 1:46:16.640 --> 1:46:21.320 don't I think the guy is a stingy crisis. He 1:46:21.479 --> 1:46:25.960 was chasing something else. Those in that class that was 1:46:29.800 --> 1:46:33.040 and uh, he's like, yeah, work out for me. Not 1:46:33.120 --> 1:46:41.439 doing yoga anymore. I remember it a little differently. Stretch. Well, 1:46:42.160 --> 1:46:45.599 I'm there quite often. Still haven't seen you? They call 1:46:45.640 --> 1:46:50.000 me yoga yoga, but no, I got like a lot 1:46:50.080 --> 1:46:51.960 of good it does you all crippled up all the time, 1:46:52.600 --> 1:46:54.720 blowing your knees out all the time. I tell you, 1:46:54.880 --> 1:46:57.000 I can't wait to go back in now that this 1:46:57.120 --> 1:46:59.599 knee is gonna be scoped and fixed. I'm gonna get 1:46:59.640 --> 1:47:02.040 to flex stability that I have in my left in 1:47:02.120 --> 1:47:07.000 my right knee, my right side pigeon is gonna go 1:47:07.080 --> 1:47:08.680 to it in the next level. Can you I can 1:47:08.760 --> 1:47:12.599 bend over now, I can bend over and palms flat 1:47:12.720 --> 1:47:16.000 on the ground and he's locked. Yeah, that's impressive. That's 1:47:16.040 --> 1:47:21.080 good that I can't even touch my toes bend as 1:47:21.120 --> 1:47:26.880 I am. Um so anyhow here I am. I'm like, hey, man, 1:47:27.000 --> 1:47:28.400 just think about getting a pack. Pack. What do you 1:47:28.439 --> 1:47:30.519 think I should get? Oh? We got you probably don't 1:47:30.560 --> 1:47:33.160 get this. I got the special sales pitch from Kurt 1:47:33.479 --> 1:47:36.640 at the now the old show room. Why can't I 1:47:36.720 --> 1:47:38.240 have the sale? Why? Why don't you give me the 1:47:38.280 --> 1:47:42.240 sales pitch? Because he doesn't hang around. He doesn't hang 1:47:42.280 --> 1:47:44.320 around in the show down here at the juke, he's stitching. 1:47:45.600 --> 1:47:49.800 But uh, I was just about to go backpack hunt 1:47:49.840 --> 1:47:52.880 with your brother or Lama hunting, and it's kind of 1:47:52.880 --> 1:47:57.200 like like backpack yeah, light, no, ladies and gentlemen. He's 1:47:57.240 --> 1:48:01.160 not mean hunting llamas. He means hunting with llamas as 1:48:01.240 --> 1:48:04.640 pack animals at Lama. Yeah, I've at Lama, but you 1:48:04.720 --> 1:48:08.040 were not hunting lamas. It was like in a It 1:48:08.120 --> 1:48:12.599 was in she could have been a house cat. You've 1:48:12.640 --> 1:48:16.960 had alpaca tastes like very tender be taste like me. Yeah, 1:48:17.240 --> 1:48:19.200 was it like all super cooked or was it like 1:48:19.280 --> 1:48:21.240 a steak? It was like a steak. Oh see I 1:48:21.280 --> 1:48:23.000 hadn't didn't get that. Yeah, I know. It was like 1:48:23.280 --> 1:48:26.120 very um yeah, like presented like a steak. It was 1:48:26.200 --> 1:48:33.880 like very tender back maybe I know. Yeah, I got 1:48:33.920 --> 1:48:37.960 a good place you hunt. Lama's giving my brothers, so 1:48:38.439 --> 1:48:40.000 I can't remember. Are you giving a sales pitch or 1:48:40.040 --> 1:48:43.960 not trying. And I was getting ready to go hunt 1:48:44.000 --> 1:48:49.840 with your brother and I had the solo and I'm 1:48:49.920 --> 1:48:51.880 in there and I'm like, yeah, I'm telling curtain be. 1:48:52.080 --> 1:48:54.040 I'm like, yeah, I don't know, man, only these packs 1:48:54.080 --> 1:48:55.760 like gonna be big enough because we're going in for 1:48:56.120 --> 1:48:58.720 six nights seven nights, maybe, you know, And I think 1:48:58.760 --> 1:49:02.479 I need a little bit bigger pack. And uh curts like, 1:49:02.600 --> 1:49:05.360 oh no, you don't. I did fourteen days in the 1:49:05.439 --> 1:49:07.799 limited ship unit with this pack and I'm like, okay, 1:49:07.960 --> 1:49:10.720 showing me please, and uh, yeah, so you showed me 1:49:10.800 --> 1:49:12.960 how to run basically the what do you guys call 1:49:13.120 --> 1:49:16.160 like the load sack, know, not the load shell, but 1:49:16.240 --> 1:49:20.720 what's the sack that goes between the pack drive back. 1:49:21.120 --> 1:49:24.320 He's like, you just take this, put your food in here. 1:49:24.960 --> 1:49:26.720 So this is this is it basically looks like a 1:49:26.840 --> 1:49:32.760 very a tidy game bag that's water resistant. Yeah, and uh, 1:49:32.960 --> 1:49:36.320 you can slip it basically between the pack in your frame. Yeah, 1:49:36.320 --> 1:49:38.760 because the whole bag will kind of move away and 1:49:38.880 --> 1:49:42.040 move away. Yeah. And then you just showed me. Then 1:49:42.120 --> 1:49:43.880 he just said, yeah, you just walk into the woods 1:49:44.640 --> 1:49:46.160 and then when you get to your spot, you're gonna 1:49:46.200 --> 1:49:48.080 hunt the best part about what I liked about this 1:49:48.120 --> 1:49:50.800 system is that you just pull that out, pull out 1:49:50.880 --> 1:49:53.720 your cord, throw it up in a tree. Now if 1:49:53.720 --> 1:49:56.360 you've got your food hung and you just send you 1:49:56.400 --> 1:49:58.920 down your backpack, you got a extra tidy pack now 1:49:59.120 --> 1:50:02.400 and off you go. I was like, man, that's the ship. 1:50:02.760 --> 1:50:04.280 So I was going to I was gonna start just 1:50:04.400 --> 1:50:07.439 like adding attachments and extra bags and you know this, 1:50:07.600 --> 1:50:09.720 that and the other. And instead I walked into the 1:50:09.760 --> 1:50:11.920 woods lighter on that trip, you know, because of that 1:50:12.040 --> 1:50:16.720 pack in that system, and uh, I was sold. Liked it. Yeah, no, 1:50:16.880 --> 1:50:18.559 And it works so slick man. I mean the whole 1:50:18.600 --> 1:50:22.080 time I was hunting when we talked about this earlier, 1:50:22.160 --> 1:50:24.519 but I had the capability to carry a quarter out 1:50:24.720 --> 1:50:27.840 had we gotten something. But while I'm hunting, I felt 1:50:27.880 --> 1:50:30.640 like I have a little daypack on, you know the 1:50:30.680 --> 1:50:33.240 ways nothing you kind of like forget it's there in 1:50:33.360 --> 1:50:35.960 your own pack. Did you use do you guys put 1:50:36.040 --> 1:50:39.960 the white hangbags? Do you use those? Do you not 1:50:40.160 --> 1:50:42.120 use them? I use them. I do not connect them 1:50:42.160 --> 1:50:44.640 to the backpack. You just you just use it as 1:50:44.720 --> 1:50:46.720 a I used them to organize my things. You don't 1:50:46.800 --> 1:50:48.600 you don't hang it inside there. I do not. I 1:50:48.640 --> 1:50:50.920 find myself kind of like liking the hanging in there. 1:50:50.960 --> 1:50:55.720 But I was curious if you guys did, because like 1:50:55.760 --> 1:50:57.439 I got, like, you know, put a couple of extra 1:50:57.520 --> 1:50:59.880 shells and ship like ship you might you know, Yeah, 1:51:00.160 --> 1:51:02.000 and I can just like reach in here. Oh, I 1:51:02.160 --> 1:51:04.040 use a bunch of them. I'm very organized in my 1:51:04.120 --> 1:51:07.599 backpack and have a little kits and stuff. But yeah, 1:51:07.600 --> 1:51:10.599 I've more often than not pulling them out and throwing 1:51:10.640 --> 1:51:13.000 them in. I just like I like having where I 1:51:13.040 --> 1:51:15.160 could even the dark, it's right there. Yeah, I just 1:51:15.320 --> 1:51:16.880 know when I put my hand in and I drag 1:51:16.960 --> 1:51:22.640 it out. Yeah. Johanna touched quickly on the ability to 1:51:22.680 --> 1:51:24.960 carry a quarter out and our load shelf feature and 1:51:25.000 --> 1:51:27.400 the ability to carry something between a frame and a bag. 1:51:27.479 --> 1:51:30.000 And that's worth talking about for a second, which is 1:51:30.960 --> 1:51:36.400 the physics behind why carrying something in a load shelf configuration. 1:51:36.680 --> 1:51:39.479 I keeping heavy stuff close to your back is the 1:51:39.560 --> 1:51:43.080 smartest way to carry heavy stuff off a mountain. And 1:51:43.680 --> 1:51:46.680 Kurt's taking done some cool experiments and we've got them 1:51:46.720 --> 1:51:50.919 all on our website. Um to where the lateral forces 1:51:51.560 --> 1:51:56.040 that the pack is going to affect on you are 1:51:56.240 --> 1:52:01.760 much smaller. When the heavy load is vertically oriented up 1:52:01.800 --> 1:52:05.040 and down, you're back close to your center of gravity 1:52:05.520 --> 1:52:07.519 rather than moving away from your center of gravity. So 1:52:07.520 --> 1:52:09.519 you can't change gravity hundred pounds, the hundred pounds, the 1:52:09.600 --> 1:52:13.599 hundred pounds, you can change the forces that that weight 1:52:13.800 --> 1:52:18.200 is going to put on your body was waving back 1:52:18.240 --> 1:52:21.439 and forth around. Yeah, the closer you can keep the 1:52:21.439 --> 1:52:24.519 heavy stuff to your back, the better it is. We're 1:52:24.520 --> 1:52:29.439 about lower higher, conventional wisdom is lower. Yeah, well, it 1:52:30.400 --> 1:52:32.759 it changes because it all depends on the center gravity 1:52:32.800 --> 1:52:37.439 of the body. Right, So, uh, take for example, in 1:52:37.479 --> 1:52:41.160 a in a standard pack, if if you if you 1:52:41.280 --> 1:52:43.360 wanted to, you know, you're working off of that that 1:52:43.600 --> 1:52:47.760 general fulcrum angle. You know, well just just that just 1:52:47.960 --> 1:52:50.680 that leverage, that the angle that it comes up, so 1:52:50.760 --> 1:52:53.280 that the farther you move it away from your back, 1:52:53.400 --> 1:52:57.519 the more leverage that's gonna happen. But the point that 1:52:57.560 --> 1:52:59.800 you're gonna work from is the center gravity of your 1:53:00.520 --> 1:53:03.320 you know, somewhere in your hips. That's that's that's the fulcrum. 1:53:03.439 --> 1:53:05.479 That's where it's you know, moving you back and forth. 1:53:06.040 --> 1:53:09.880 So you can move the load higher and achieve the 1:53:10.000 --> 1:53:15.439 same vertical amount of leverage as as if it was 1:53:15.840 --> 1:53:17.600 as if it was lower. But the problem is is 1:53:17.680 --> 1:53:20.840 now your lateral you know, you're left or right. Now 1:53:20.960 --> 1:53:24.360 you've increased that leverage going that way. So you know, 1:53:24.600 --> 1:53:28.400 there's this there's this uh, this this medium where you 1:53:28.600 --> 1:53:31.919 where you try to get it close enough to offset 1:53:32.080 --> 1:53:34.840 both leverage. And what we've found is when you draw 1:53:34.880 --> 1:53:37.000 it out out on autocat and you figure out the 1:53:37.040 --> 1:53:40.040 density of the meat and you figure out, you know, 1:53:40.560 --> 1:53:44.160 the density generally of of the gear that you're carrying, 1:53:44.520 --> 1:53:47.280 and you start moving it around and you're gonna get 1:53:47.520 --> 1:53:49.960 you're gonna get a center of gravity of your pack 1:53:50.479 --> 1:53:52.640 at some point. So you move it here, it might 1:53:52.720 --> 1:53:55.120 move up, it might move down. So the key is 1:53:55.160 --> 1:53:57.680 being able to get it the most in line obviously 1:53:57.840 --> 1:54:01.360 with your your center avenue, you know, which is generally 1:54:01.400 --> 1:54:03.880 going to be in the center of your hips and 1:54:04.400 --> 1:54:08.280 so I know one ever put a quarter in right 1:54:08.360 --> 1:54:14.639 side up. Yeah, Yeah, that's that's that's a great example 1:54:15.000 --> 1:54:17.240 of it. Yeah, because it's in it's physically in the 1:54:17.360 --> 1:54:21.280 same spot vertically, but you know, now you're left or 1:54:21.360 --> 1:54:23.840 right front to back, you know, being able to control it, 1:54:24.800 --> 1:54:27.800 so yeah, that that's that's kind of the concept behind it, 1:54:28.000 --> 1:54:31.640 is just being able to increase stability and any advantage 1:54:31.680 --> 1:54:33.280 that you can get. You know, if you're only packing 1:54:33.360 --> 1:54:35.840 it a few hundred yards to your truck, obviously it 1:54:35.880 --> 1:54:38.320 doesn't make that big difference. But if you're under that 1:54:38.480 --> 1:54:41.640 same load for for two days, you have to manage 1:54:41.680 --> 1:54:43.080 the meat. So now you have to be able to 1:54:43.120 --> 1:54:45.520 get out, especially in sheep hunting, if you're in the 1:54:45.600 --> 1:54:48.000 Northwest territories, you know, you're even earlier in the year 1:54:48.040 --> 1:54:49.920 in Alaska, you're in early August. You don't know what 1:54:50.040 --> 1:54:52.280 kind of weather you're going to have, so you can't 1:54:52.320 --> 1:54:53.800 just leave it in a ball of me You're gonna 1:54:53.840 --> 1:54:55.560 have to, you know, get it out, get some air 1:54:55.640 --> 1:54:58.000 on it, get it cool, try to get it on ice, 1:54:58.080 --> 1:55:00.440 if there's a glacier round, whatever, whatever you can do 1:55:00.600 --> 1:55:02.520 to take care of the meat. So now being able 1:55:02.560 --> 1:55:06.000 to manage it and keep it clean and then be 1:55:06.080 --> 1:55:08.760 able to repack it. So if you just end up 1:55:08.800 --> 1:55:10.120 with a you know, a ball of meat in the 1:55:10.160 --> 1:55:12.120 middle of your pack with all the rest of your gear, 1:55:12.360 --> 1:55:15.240 there's just there's a whole another level of dynamics. You 1:55:15.320 --> 1:55:17.320 need to start to work with. That's the thing you love. 1:55:17.360 --> 1:55:19.960 People don't realize how much And that was kind of 1:55:20.160 --> 1:55:24.560 hot days August September. How much you're messing with that stuff. 1:55:25.200 --> 1:55:26.920 You have to be on it all the time, airing 1:55:26.960 --> 1:55:29.200 it out, putting the shade, taking it out of the shade, 1:55:29.240 --> 1:55:30.760 putting your bag. You can't like throw it in a 1:55:30.800 --> 1:55:32.640 garbage bag and put in your backpack and then like, 1:55:32.640 --> 1:55:35.120 I think it's gonna two days later and be like no, no, no, 1:55:35.320 --> 1:55:37.920 that's it too and you could lose it quickly. Yeah, 1:55:38.000 --> 1:55:40.600 you're like keeping an eye getting the heat out of it, 1:55:40.800 --> 1:55:43.440 you know, quickly after you right after you take it, 1:55:44.520 --> 1:55:48.200 so you know, um, so yeah, that's that's kind of 1:55:48.280 --> 1:55:50.960 the concept behind it is twofold, you know. One of 1:55:51.040 --> 1:55:53.320 it is is an easier way to manage. To me, 1:55:53.480 --> 1:55:56.160 once you have it, keep it as clean and then 1:55:56.440 --> 1:55:59.560 and and you don't keep as much of it easy 1:55:59.640 --> 1:56:03.520 canbviously not lose anything. And then being able to have 1:56:03.640 --> 1:56:06.560 it in the most comfortable spot. So are are you 1:56:06.880 --> 1:56:10.560 h are you digging the backpack business like do most years? 1:56:10.640 --> 1:56:12.400 You you know, go and sell more packs than you 1:56:12.440 --> 1:56:15.480 did the year before and stuff like that. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 1:56:15.560 --> 1:56:17.640 I I dig it a lot like it you're in 1:56:17.680 --> 1:56:20.760 its stay. Oh yeah, yeah, it's just started making all 1:56:20.880 --> 1:56:22.800 kinds of all this ship too. Oh you never know, 1:56:23.440 --> 1:56:25.720 there's there's a there's a lot more time to work 1:56:25.760 --> 1:56:29.000 on stuff like that right now. Yeah, I might do 1:56:29.120 --> 1:56:34.800 fanny packs us. I mean, but you're not kidding about 1:56:34.800 --> 1:56:37.000 making other stuff. I'm not kidding about that. No, No, 1:56:37.200 --> 1:56:40.280 they make some other thing. What would you go make? 1:56:41.440 --> 1:56:46.440 Uh like what completely out of pack? But like what 1:56:46.760 --> 1:56:50.080 class of like yeah, like what would be like mountain 1:56:50.200 --> 1:56:53.760 hunting gear? Okay, yeah, mountain and gear? Yeah, I think 1:56:53.880 --> 1:56:56.280 things that go along with it and naturally go along 1:56:56.360 --> 1:56:58.560 with it, the stuff that you pull out of your pack, 1:56:58.680 --> 1:57:01.800 you know, like a new kind of claw hammer. No, no, no, 1:57:01.920 --> 1:57:05.440 we're gonna see that's that's a lot of work. So 1:57:05.560 --> 1:57:10.160 it'll stay in like like high quality mountain ye yeah 1:57:10.280 --> 1:57:13.840 for sure. Yeah, I mean that that's the fun part 1:57:13.880 --> 1:57:15.680 about it. But give me a like, okay, here, I 1:57:15.960 --> 1:57:18.760 put it this way. What would be something that you'd 1:57:18.800 --> 1:57:22.920 be like say it finished his sense? You know, Steve, 1:57:23.240 --> 1:57:26.880 I wouldn't be surprised if down the road I made 1:57:26.960 --> 1:57:33.160 a blank five that made a piece of gear that 1:57:33.160 --> 1:57:35.520 you're gonna be carrying in our back in in a 1:57:35.640 --> 1:57:38.760 stone glacier back something that I might toe around in 1:57:38.920 --> 1:57:40.880 my path. There is a lot of cool stuff on 1:57:40.920 --> 1:57:44.200 the drawing board. Yeah, yeah, that's fun. Yeah, it is fun. 1:57:44.440 --> 1:57:46.640 I think that's that's the best part of the business 1:57:46.680 --> 1:57:48.520 as far as I'm concerned. Britain, how do you cut 1:57:48.520 --> 1:57:53.760 your leg up so bad? Chicken wire? Fence fence, chicken wire. 1:57:54.640 --> 1:57:57.480 I guess you're trying to restrain some chickens. No, my 1:57:58.160 --> 1:58:00.360 my might have a little five month old puppy that 1:58:00.440 --> 1:58:03.080 likes to get. You're trying to keep it, trying to 1:58:03.160 --> 1:58:06.280 keep it out of the garden. You got including thoughts, pretty, 1:58:08.200 --> 1:58:09.600 I don't want to I don't want to go first, 1:58:11.800 --> 1:58:15.880 I don't I don't got ship, I got nothing. All 1:58:15.920 --> 1:58:18.640 my questions are answered. I was gonna say, it's easy 1:58:18.760 --> 1:58:22.320 for Kurt to uh go sheep on in September and 1:58:22.400 --> 1:58:25.440 the middle of the raw in good Elk country here 1:58:25.600 --> 1:58:30.240 because he's already got a whole corner of his man 1:58:30.360 --> 1:58:35.160 cave here. They're not even on the wall. Um was 1:58:35.320 --> 1:58:42.560 just how many other five? Anymore? Five? Here's probably more others. 1:58:42.640 --> 1:58:46.040 Just beautiful six point bowls and anybody would be happy with. 1:58:46.240 --> 1:58:48.640 So once you've a mass knees and you're like, whatever, 1:58:49.600 --> 1:58:53.800 elk milk going cheap. I don't care if I see 1:58:53.840 --> 1:59:01.120 the animals anymore. I hadn't old client once tell me 1:59:01.200 --> 1:59:04.680 after we kill the six point bull those maybe he's 1:59:04.720 --> 1:59:06.640 big as the smallest one that I'm looking at here, 1:59:06.640 --> 1:59:08.680 And he said, yeah, he can never have too many 1:59:08.760 --> 1:59:13.160 six point bulls. I agree with that. Six points or 1:59:13.160 --> 1:59:16.000 six point right, Yeah, I think, like, yeah, I think 1:59:16.080 --> 1:59:18.400 I got mutely bucks. I feel like you can't just 1:59:19.160 --> 1:59:23.680 there's no I can see that like you'd say you can't, 1:59:24.600 --> 1:59:27.080 like for instance, for instance, like I went must cox 1:59:27.200 --> 1:59:32.400 on no desire at all to go Muskoxn. But I'm saying, like, yeah, 1:59:32.680 --> 1:59:34.800 I think that people find they're kind of a lot 1:59:34.880 --> 1:59:38.080 of guys find their thing, you know, like how many 1:59:38.320 --> 1:59:40.760 how many buck Racks be caught up hanging in Doug 1:59:40.840 --> 1:59:47.520 Durn's in the Buckman juice room. Twenty's not all his? 1:59:47.680 --> 1:59:49.720 But I mean, you know it's not He's not like, 1:59:49.840 --> 1:59:51.400 oh you know, two more and I'm done. You know, 1:59:51.440 --> 1:59:54.200 it's just not how he looks at it. What was 1:59:54.200 --> 1:59:56.400 your concluding thought? That was it? You can't have too 1:59:56.440 --> 1:59:59.680 many big old can have too many six points and 1:59:59.760 --> 2:00:01.840 that's how you get to go unlimit sheep points after 2:00:01.880 --> 2:00:05.840 even mask and you have to give up some you know. Now, 2:00:06.920 --> 2:00:09.280 what's up? So your wife doesn't like you have You 2:00:09.360 --> 2:00:12.720 can't put antlers and whatnot up in your living room? No, 2:00:12.880 --> 2:00:17.040 I could. I like having everything right here. Just I 2:00:17.160 --> 2:00:20.000 like my space. Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things 2:00:20.040 --> 2:00:22.720 I like about my wife. Yeah. I put anything anywhere 2:00:22.720 --> 2:00:24.840 I want. People are always like, oh, I can't put 2:00:24.880 --> 2:00:28.520 it in the bedroom. It's it's like, dude, I don't 2:00:28.760 --> 2:00:32.240 say i'd go get a new wife, but my wife, 2:00:32.480 --> 2:00:34.480 My wife doesn't mess any about stuff like that. Man, 2:00:35.000 --> 2:00:36.760 I'm not saying yours does. You just like to keep 2:00:36.760 --> 2:00:41.440 it all tidy. I like my space and I come 2:00:41.480 --> 2:00:46.040 down here. That's what I want to as a fan 2:00:46.080 --> 2:00:48.600 of Buffalo too, I take it because I see two 2:00:49.120 --> 2:00:51.840 pieces of art Buffalo on them. Yeah. Actually my sister 2:00:51.960 --> 2:00:56.360 painted that one for me. Yeah, back in the day. 2:00:56.440 --> 2:00:58.720 But yeah, you know I like about you most Kurt 2:00:58.840 --> 2:01:02.040 is it? Uh you keep everything real neat I have 2:01:02.120 --> 2:01:06.200 a real problem like with neatness means that I like it. 2:01:06.560 --> 2:01:08.440 I like it too much. I like it too much. 2:01:09.640 --> 2:01:11.360 I don't have a problem keeping neat. I just like 2:01:11.880 --> 2:01:15.920 I like it so much that it becomes a thing 2:01:16.040 --> 2:01:20.000 in and of itself. It's like there's a great functional 2:01:20.120 --> 2:01:24.320 quality to neatness, right, But for me, neatness is an 2:01:24.600 --> 2:01:28.600 end in itself. Do you understand what I'm saying. That's 2:01:28.640 --> 2:01:30.800 when it becomes a problem. Yeah, Well a four and 2:01:30.880 --> 2:01:34.680 a six year old take care of that, and two 2:01:34.760 --> 2:01:38.800 four and seven so they did, Like we have a 2:01:38.840 --> 2:01:41.440 fish and check. And my brother who likes stuff neat too, 2:01:41.600 --> 2:01:44.800 He's like when he closes his eyes and pictures it 2:01:44.800 --> 2:01:48.200 in the future, he pictures a coast guard station like 2:01:48.560 --> 2:01:51.760 that neat you know, yeah, I like that, but this 2:01:52.240 --> 2:01:58.560 this room doesn't make Matt. Matt's trick to neatness, though, 2:01:58.640 --> 2:02:01.040 is to get rid of all your ship, he says. 2:02:01.120 --> 2:02:02.760 He goes, when I shut the door in my house, 2:02:02.840 --> 2:02:05.000 I like, it's not like I'm walking into a gymnasium. 2:02:07.520 --> 2:02:10.200 So his need is is just to expunge the house 2:02:10.320 --> 2:02:13.160 of all items. So it's like his house is like 2:02:14.040 --> 2:02:17.160 about as empty as a house could be, because that 2:02:17.480 --> 2:02:19.560 means it's like there's nothing too straighten up because he 2:02:19.600 --> 2:02:22.800 got rid of it all, you know, just like stripped. 2:02:22.920 --> 2:02:26.760 He lives a monastic, like a fairly monastic life, he 2:02:27.000 --> 2:02:29.520 commented on liking my house, but he lives nine hours 2:02:29.560 --> 2:02:32.240 away from his wife. They have separate homes that are 2:02:33.160 --> 2:02:37.800 nine hours apart. Wow. When they hang out, it's like 2:02:37.880 --> 2:02:42.200 they're like like a dating couple having a good old time, 2:02:43.240 --> 2:02:47.520 good stuff. Yeah, and it's not like they're they're not 2:02:47.560 --> 2:02:49.360 about it. They're not about it, like, oh, we're just 2:02:49.440 --> 2:02:52.680 trying to get through this right, And then it'll be 2:02:52.880 --> 2:02:57.880 that they're like just very fine with that. Him having 2:02:57.960 --> 2:03:04.880 his very neat house without even having her ship. Well, 2:03:04.920 --> 2:03:11.000 I figured out it was well like when you guys 2:03:11.080 --> 2:03:13.400 first asked me to be on this particular podcast and 2:03:13.480 --> 2:03:15.040 you said you were going to talk about she hunting 2:03:15.040 --> 2:03:16.200 the whole time, I was like, I don't really have 2:03:16.240 --> 2:03:19.440 anything to contribute, which I didn't have much, But but 2:03:19.520 --> 2:03:21.120 what I will say is that I think you guys. 2:03:21.280 --> 2:03:23.000 I went into it thinking like, I don't think I 2:03:23.040 --> 2:03:25.280 could ever do is she hunt or would ever want 2:03:25.360 --> 2:03:28.640 to do in I think you guys your enthusiasm definitely 2:03:28.720 --> 2:03:33.840 changed my mind. I'm not going to do it, but 2:03:34.320 --> 2:03:40.240 you're like that she would have a hard time shooting 2:03:40.280 --> 2:03:43.120 a bull elk because they're too majestic. Oh my, she 2:03:43.360 --> 2:03:46.600 has a thing of like the majestic quality. I don't know, 2:03:47.040 --> 2:03:50.400 and majestic you should see him up close once they're dead. 2:03:52.120 --> 2:03:53.840 But that's the thing. Yeah, I don't know. It's like 2:03:53.920 --> 2:03:55.880 I feel like and I've just never I've never had 2:03:55.880 --> 2:03:58.800 the opportunity, so I can't say, like, what would happen 2:03:58.880 --> 2:04:01.120 like in the moment, you know, it's hard. It's one 2:04:01.160 --> 2:04:03.000 thing to say it now sitting here, but it's another 2:04:03.080 --> 2:04:05.240 to say it like actually in the moment. But I 2:04:05.320 --> 2:04:06.920 don't know, Like I feel like if I saw one, 2:04:06.920 --> 2:04:11.120 I would just be like like last to see last season, Um, 2:04:11.720 --> 2:04:13.960 my boyfriend I went hunting in for meal and the 2:04:14.200 --> 2:04:16.480 Missouri breaks and I had an opportunity at like a 2:04:16.640 --> 2:04:21.360 huge um and I like, I was just like my 2:04:21.440 --> 2:04:25.040 boyfriend was like, are you gonna just what's going on here? 2:04:25.120 --> 2:04:30.560 Like my jaw was on the floor. So it's weird 2:04:30.600 --> 2:04:33.440 to me because that seems like a patriarchal perspective. But 2:04:33.640 --> 2:04:38.320 to have a woman say that she grants a male 2:04:38.560 --> 2:04:42.880 animal a higher majestic score, that's entirely possibly and a 2:04:43.000 --> 2:04:45.920 female seems like I like it because it's unexpected. I 2:04:45.960 --> 2:04:49.280 would just expect to have I would visualize that as 2:04:49.320 --> 2:04:52.360 like this, like very like patriarchal view of animals. I 2:04:52.400 --> 2:04:56.440 don't know. The male is more he's the he's the 2:04:56.520 --> 2:05:00.440 special one. Well, he's more like spectacular. I mean he 2:05:00.480 --> 2:05:04.240 has these incredibly huge, you know antlers that you know, 2:05:04.560 --> 2:05:06.560 took him a long time to throw those. No, he 2:05:06.600 --> 2:05:09.200 grows a few. I don't know. I mean it's just 2:05:09.280 --> 2:05:11.440 like there's something more like majestic to the way that 2:05:11.520 --> 2:05:16.440 they look. But I don't know it has it has 2:05:16.560 --> 2:05:18.920 I don't know. I can't I can't explain it. I 2:05:18.960 --> 2:05:23.120 can't explain that was a good one. Uh you anything 2:05:23.120 --> 2:05:26.760 you don't want to add? Well, I don't you ever 2:05:26.840 --> 2:05:29.160 get shocked messed around with high volted electricity. I guess 2:05:29.200 --> 2:05:30.800 you don't get any chances to have it. No, No, 2:05:30.920 --> 2:05:33.840 it's kind of a one shot deal. You're combine the 2:05:33.960 --> 2:05:40.640 two somehow high voltage packs into like tie fashion and 2:05:41.120 --> 2:05:44.560 like make fancy packs with like glow in the dark. Yeah, yeah, 2:05:44.600 --> 2:05:47.920 with your specific tools. Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a 2:05:48.000 --> 2:05:50.280 tough one to go. You know, people will spend a 2:05:50.360 --> 2:05:53.680 lot of money on their recreation. They really won't spend 2:05:53.720 --> 2:05:57.720 it on their work necessarily, so yeah, but it would 2:05:57.720 --> 2:05:59.560 be fun. I mean, you're not gonna make like a 2:05:59.720 --> 2:06:04.600 super up tool kit for I don't think so compete 2:06:04.640 --> 2:06:09.720 with Lows and home depot. Yea, um, never been shocked. 2:06:09.840 --> 2:06:11.880 You got anything you want to add that you didn't 2:06:11.880 --> 2:06:14.760 get a chance to, Like you were wishing had come up, 2:06:14.800 --> 2:06:17.400 but it never came up. No, uh no, I mean 2:06:17.440 --> 2:06:20.640 I just appreciate you guys having us on and it's 2:06:20.680 --> 2:06:23.920 been a lot of fun, learned, a lot came up. 2:06:24.560 --> 2:06:26.760 I hope you can sell a whole shipload of packs. Man, 2:06:27.000 --> 2:06:29.360 Well thank you. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna We're gonna keep 2:06:29.400 --> 2:06:32.120 hammering on it. And I think you guys need to 2:06:32.160 --> 2:06:38.000 start to marketing campaigns. One would be tidy. Two would 2:06:38.040 --> 2:06:42.720 be we kill unlimited rams. Just have a sign says 2:06:42.800 --> 2:06:49.000 that yeah, non guided we killed non guided unlimited rams. Well, 2:06:49.080 --> 2:06:51.080 you know, it's it's funny that that's that. That would 2:06:51.120 --> 2:06:53.520 be My only closing comment on that is is that 2:06:53.800 --> 2:06:58.960 the the unlimited cheap hunt is Uh, people are pretty 2:06:59.000 --> 2:07:01.120 tight with the information and the guys who go in 2:07:01.240 --> 2:07:05.680 there and spend the amount of time, uh, you know, 2:07:05.800 --> 2:07:09.240 you own it. You can earn it and so. But 2:07:09.480 --> 2:07:12.480 in in the same respect, you can have all the 2:07:12.560 --> 2:07:14.880 information in the world from guys have been successful and 2:07:14.960 --> 2:07:17.720 go in there and you know, not not see anything, 2:07:18.200 --> 2:07:20.440 but you know it kind of reminds me of fight 2:07:20.480 --> 2:07:23.560 club or something. You know. Number one rule, right, first, 2:07:23.680 --> 2:07:30.320 number one first rule, do not talk about Sorry, but 2:07:30.440 --> 2:07:32.360 you haven't done anything bad because you guys haven't even 2:07:32.440 --> 2:07:38.240 named like a train now range um. But that's a 2:07:38.600 --> 2:07:41.480 question I have is do you feel like it could 2:07:41.520 --> 2:07:46.080 be a possibility that you might get your tag back 2:07:46.240 --> 2:07:50.280 next year and then you can haunt every year until 2:07:50.320 --> 2:07:51.800 you're like, all right, I'm over on them to sheep 2:07:51.880 --> 2:07:55.160 hunting and not kill another ram. Well, there's only a 2:07:55.280 --> 2:07:58.280 two point five seven percent chance that I you know 2:07:58.440 --> 2:08:01.720 that I take. I mean, obviously you're a positive thinking 2:08:01.800 --> 2:08:03.520 person because you're gonna go in there and try and 2:08:03.680 --> 2:08:05.360 every time you walk in there you're thinking, I'm gonna 2:08:05.400 --> 2:08:07.800 kill one. But like that's a realistic possibility you could 2:08:07.840 --> 2:08:10.320 hunt another twenty years and not kill another sheep. Yeah, 2:08:10.440 --> 2:08:12.320 And and I think it depends on you, know, how 2:08:12.440 --> 2:08:15.600 you where you hunt, what you want to do. Do 2:08:15.640 --> 2:08:17.400 you want to spend more time exploring it? Do you 2:08:17.480 --> 2:08:20.440 want to. It's not that this is going to happen. 2:08:20.680 --> 2:08:22.560 And it might sound silly to say, but it almost 2:08:22.600 --> 2:08:24.600 be disappointed if you walked in there and only spent 2:08:24.720 --> 2:08:27.800 three days after waiting seven years and you got one. You, 2:08:28.360 --> 2:08:30.160 I mean, you wouldn't turn it down. And I don't 2:08:30.160 --> 2:08:34.160 want to, But there is there. There's a lot to 2:08:34.520 --> 2:08:38.640 being able to look up at that and and and say, 2:08:38.920 --> 2:08:40.640 you know, I invested a lot of times. There were 2:08:40.640 --> 2:08:42.760 a lot of good memories went along with it. That 2:08:42.920 --> 2:08:45.560 might be the representation of it right now, but really 2:08:45.640 --> 2:08:47.560 what was special was just the stuff that I got 2:08:47.640 --> 2:08:49.680 to experience where you know, how you grew back there, 2:08:49.720 --> 2:08:53.120 how you overcame things that that you didn't think maybe 2:08:53.200 --> 2:08:55.360 you would. You know those times when you haven't seen 2:08:55.360 --> 2:08:57.600 anything for nine days and you start the question why 2:08:57.640 --> 2:09:00.840 am I here? You know, you spending time with my 2:09:00.960 --> 2:09:03.760 family right now, I haven't seen anything for nine days, 2:09:04.560 --> 2:09:06.680 and then the tenth day something's there. It's like it 2:09:06.760 --> 2:09:09.680 just happens like that. So you know all of those 2:09:09.760 --> 2:09:11.920 things that you start to grow, and then you start 2:09:11.960 --> 2:09:14.600 to apply that to say LK hunting, where you're seeing 2:09:15.360 --> 2:09:20.880 many elk in comparison, and and it changes your your 2:09:20.960 --> 2:09:24.000 perception of hunting. I think is probably the most positive 2:09:24.040 --> 2:09:26.440 thing that's done for me, because you pay more attention to, 2:09:28.080 --> 2:09:30.280 you know, all the little things that happened imposed it 2:09:30.440 --> 2:09:33.000 just you know, the big things and something standing in 2:09:33.080 --> 2:09:36.280 front of you. So because some days there aren't no 2:09:36.320 --> 2:09:41.080 big things, yeah, many days, most days yeah yeah, and 2:09:42.080 --> 2:09:44.920 you're you know, after nine days of being by yourself, 2:09:45.040 --> 2:09:47.320 it doesn't happen very long. You are very often you 2:09:47.720 --> 2:09:49.480 start to run out of things to even think about. 2:09:50.000 --> 2:09:53.480 Most people, most people, it's an interesting people will never 2:09:53.720 --> 2:09:59.520 ever happen. Bring a book or three, Yeah, bring a book. 2:10:00.120 --> 2:10:02.120 Work with the Sun. That was a ringer of a 2:10:02.200 --> 2:10:04.800 closing thought right there, Because do you have any final 2:10:04.840 --> 2:10:06.440 thing you want to add? Man, things that didn't come 2:10:06.520 --> 2:10:07.880 up that you wish you'd got to talk about. I 2:10:08.040 --> 2:10:09.680 want to talk about a big old posts were just 2:10:09.760 --> 2:10:11.360 caught in our shrimp pop. But I'm not gonna talk 2:10:11.360 --> 2:10:14.600 about that right now. Ok it was actually my buddy shrimps. 2:10:15.000 --> 2:10:18.520 I am so confused about. Okay, we got big I'm 2:10:18.560 --> 2:10:21.480 thinking of a cat son. You want to talk about 2:10:21.480 --> 2:10:23.840 something that never had you guys, think unlimited sheep hunt. 2:10:25.160 --> 2:10:29.880 It's like seeing sand Claus. Yeah, getting octopus to shrimp pots, 2:10:30.760 --> 2:10:33.280 just like you know, you pull a lot of shrimp pots, 2:10:33.360 --> 2:10:35.480 not get oxoputs. Go out the other day and I 2:10:35.600 --> 2:10:37.920 boaded over to my like a buddy of mine was 2:10:37.960 --> 2:10:41.360 out pulling shrimp pots and he was kind of mad 2:10:41.400 --> 2:10:43.720 that I wasn't coming to help him, and I don't 2:10:43.720 --> 2:10:45.600 want to go because it's it's a very difficult area 2:10:45.640 --> 2:10:47.960 to take a skiff too. And I go over there 2:10:48.080 --> 2:10:49.920 and he already he had eight and the water he 2:10:49.960 --> 2:10:55.680 already pulled six. He's kind of pissed. I'm not really pissed, 2:10:55.680 --> 2:10:58.960 but he's annoyed. Um, hook it up, pull a pot, 2:10:59.040 --> 2:11:03.200 big old pusts man. Yeah, he's in my freezer right now. 2:11:03.760 --> 2:11:05.680 I was all geared up to talk about that. So 2:11:05.800 --> 2:11:07.600 tell me how you're gonna cook it, because we did 2:11:07.680 --> 2:11:10.480 that a couple of times in Alaska and we never 2:11:10.720 --> 2:11:13.960 really got it figured out. Yeah, it was really good. 2:11:14.080 --> 2:11:16.920 It just was you had to you had to work 2:11:17.000 --> 2:11:19.320 at it. There's a couple of ways people do it. Um. 2:11:19.800 --> 2:11:23.240 One way as you take a switch like I know 2:11:23.360 --> 2:11:25.920 that one chef likes to use the apple switch stick 2:11:26.800 --> 2:11:32.080 and beat the snot out of it or uh in Japan. 2:11:32.960 --> 2:11:36.320 They'll take a bucket and they'll have salt Corse salt 2:11:36.400 --> 2:11:38.200 in the bucket and put in the bottom of a 2:11:38.240 --> 2:11:40.160 five gallon bucket with a bunch of very coarse salt. 2:11:41.120 --> 2:11:43.240 Punch it. No, just put it in the bottom and 2:11:43.320 --> 2:11:45.400 just start punching the legs and punching the legs and 2:11:45.560 --> 2:11:47.720 working around and punch and punch and punch. You're saying 2:11:47.760 --> 2:11:52.800 this is to kill it, to kill it, Yeah, we 2:11:52.920 --> 2:11:56.280 figured that. Yeah, to kill you way lower than you 2:11:56.360 --> 2:12:00.760 think it would because the brains to tenderize it crazy. Yeah, 2:12:00.800 --> 2:12:03.880 So you just you ever watch Gero Dreams of Sushiyah. 2:12:04.280 --> 2:12:07.320 There's a scene in there where someone's tenorizing just beating 2:12:07.360 --> 2:12:13.400 in the bible bucket, uh my mentor in all things, uh, 2:12:13.760 --> 2:12:20.440 all things salt water um par boils them. So thirty 2:12:20.480 --> 2:12:22.839 minute he gets no beating at all, he gets pissedly 2:12:22.880 --> 2:12:26.080 say parbo he rolled, he'd like to say roll boil. 2:12:26.240 --> 2:12:30.320 He roll boils them the arms for thirty minutes and 2:12:30.400 --> 2:12:32.440 then the kind of this outside skin kind of comes off. 2:12:32.480 --> 2:12:34.640 You scrape it off. Then he packs in to dry 2:12:34.760 --> 2:12:38.640 Brian four to one. Then he smokes it, then he 2:12:38.760 --> 2:12:42.040 jars it and it is the best ship on the planet. Man. 2:12:43.480 --> 2:12:48.760 My closing thought is, man, is that puss sound good? Man? 2:12:48.840 --> 2:12:52.080 I want some Oxtrobus for dinner now. Umm. Would just 2:12:52.160 --> 2:12:55.120 be at tune. Encourage people to try new things and 2:12:56.080 --> 2:12:58.839 collect as many experiences as you can. And if unlimited 2:12:58.920 --> 2:13:02.680 Cheap Hunting is one of those things, go for it. Yeah, 2:13:02.720 --> 2:13:05.760 there's only guys out there trying to kill ten sheet. 2:13:05.880 --> 2:13:08.080 Just know what you're getting into. Just know what you're 2:13:08.080 --> 2:13:11.520 signing up for in the realities of it, and it's 2:13:12.000 --> 2:13:14.720 the most rewarding thing. Oh yeah, that getting out there 2:13:14.720 --> 2:13:18.080 and doing stuff thing is so important if we're just 2:13:18.120 --> 2:13:22.720 getting like general life ship, because when you're laying there dying, 2:13:24.080 --> 2:13:27.280 we got a couple of minutes, you're not gonna be like, Man, 2:13:27.360 --> 2:13:30.600 am I glad I didn't do that unlimited Cheap Hunt Right, 2:13:30.640 --> 2:13:32.560 It's just not gonna be what you say when you die, 2:13:33.400 --> 2:13:43.240 unless you're dying on the cheating you whatever you say, 2:13:43.240 --> 2:13:47.640 I'm not answering. I'm done talking, okay. Um. I don't 2:13:47.680 --> 2:13:50.800 know if this is the time for because what if 2:13:50.840 --> 2:13:52.880 he wants to tell us a story himself, who we're 2:13:52.880 --> 2:13:56.720 gonna possibly go in and hang out with positives and decent. 2:13:59.560 --> 2:14:02.960 He miss You guys know Jim Pozwits one of Montana's 2:14:03.080 --> 2:14:07.440 greatest conservationists. Well, he's a national figure. Yeah, he's a 2:14:07.560 --> 2:14:10.360 national figure. But he did most his work. He's very yeah, 2:14:10.400 --> 2:14:13.400 but very influential cons You could you could say that 2:14:13.560 --> 2:14:17.920 he you know, not single handily, but he certainly spearheaded 2:14:17.960 --> 2:14:21.560 the effort that kept the Yellstun River from being damned. There, 2:14:21.960 --> 2:14:24.480 helped keep it the longest free flowing river in the country. 2:14:25.120 --> 2:14:28.320 But I was hanging with him the other morning talking, uh, 2:14:28.600 --> 2:14:34.160 doing some recording of some other stuff. Sorry to something, Well, 2:14:34.200 --> 2:14:38.200 I've messed something up. The longest freestone river in the 2:14:38.240 --> 2:14:45.240 lower forty eight not the country, copy um and Jim, 2:14:45.440 --> 2:14:48.400 I think it's eighty two this year, and drew a 2:14:48.480 --> 2:14:52.680 goat tag I think second or third time. He's like, 2:14:52.720 --> 2:14:54.760 I've already killed, I think he said. And he's killed too. 2:14:54.800 --> 2:14:56.840 He's like, I'm already killed two, don't need to kill 2:14:56.880 --> 2:14:59.720 a third one. But he says, I'm not giving this 2:14:59.800 --> 2:15:01.880 one back so someone else can go kill. I'm gonna 2:15:01.880 --> 2:15:04.880 give this got a pass go up there, that's going 2:15:04.920 --> 2:15:09.560 to get to live another year. Right, But because of 2:15:09.680 --> 2:15:13.760 his health, he also cannot make it up to go. 2:15:14.000 --> 2:15:16.360 And it's the first time I asked him the first 2:15:16.400 --> 2:15:19.280 time the health is keeping you off of hunt? He said, yep, 2:15:20.280 --> 2:15:23.200 I said, ship if I'm eighty two and I get 2:15:23.240 --> 2:15:25.160 to say that this this year's the first year, the 2:15:25.240 --> 2:15:27.360 first time not going up on the mountain because of 2:15:27.400 --> 2:15:30.320 my health, Like it'll be a good life, right. He 2:15:30.480 --> 2:15:34.320 added to that to say that, he said, like, that's 2:15:34.320 --> 2:15:37.120 all cool, I'm happy with it. Whatnot? He says, you know, 2:15:37.680 --> 2:15:40.400 kind of he says, I hope you know when the 2:15:40.520 --> 2:15:43.600 time comes or when there's that moment I think you 2:15:43.680 --> 2:15:45.560 can all kind of get when I'm getting at here, 2:15:45.600 --> 2:15:51.560 He's like, I hope to see what that goat is seeing. Well, 2:15:51.680 --> 2:15:54.280 it's kind of a beautiful stout. He's a good thinker. 2:15:54.760 --> 2:16:00.840 I know I wasn't say anything, but uh, sorry, Jim, 2:16:02.200 --> 2:16:04.680 I'm not talking. I'm channeling Jim Posits, so I'm not 2:16:04.720 --> 2:16:09.040 actually saying Jim Posits was talking about. Uh, you know, 2:16:09.080 --> 2:16:11.600 he's an elderly man and a couple of years ago 2:16:11.640 --> 2:16:15.240 he was out hunting and near his home in Helena 2:16:15.520 --> 2:16:17.880 and he's climbing up to a place to to hunt 2:16:17.920 --> 2:16:25.080 Elco place where he knows the outcome through and ship 2:16:25.560 --> 2:16:28.440 I got myself in the situations in earlier. Okay, before 2:16:28.440 --> 2:16:30.760 I tell you this, I'll tell you some other thing now. 2:16:31.200 --> 2:16:37.240 Roosevelt Poter Roosevelt, So Roosevelt um has his famous quote 2:16:37.560 --> 2:16:40.000 where a guy said, like, so earlier, I talked about 2:16:40.000 --> 2:16:41.440 how it came to be that the wild animals belong 2:16:41.480 --> 2:16:45.720 to the people. Um, you know, Roosevelt was, I want 2:16:45.760 --> 2:16:48.920 to be conservative and conserved wildlife. And so someone once 2:16:48.959 --> 2:16:52.200 said that Roosevelt like, if it belongs to us and 2:16:52.320 --> 2:16:54.480 it's ours, why can't we just go get it all? 2:16:55.040 --> 2:16:58.000 And he said, it doesn't just belong to you, it 2:16:58.120 --> 2:17:02.080 belongs to those Americans. Ill in the womb of time. 2:17:02.959 --> 2:17:07.880 What a line so posits is uh going up the hunt, 2:17:09.000 --> 2:17:11.560 and he becomes aware of a father and two kids 2:17:12.800 --> 2:17:17.560 behind him and on the trail, and the father is 2:17:17.600 --> 2:17:21.200 holding the kids back because he's reluctant to allow his 2:17:21.360 --> 2:17:25.160 kids to come smoking up past some old man. And 2:17:25.280 --> 2:17:30.120 Jim realizes that they're like purposefully plodding along out of 2:17:30.560 --> 2:17:34.640 out of deference, and he says that he turns and 2:17:34.760 --> 2:17:38.080 talks to says, I want you to go ahead, and 2:17:38.760 --> 2:17:41.000 he says and he's telling the story. He talks about 2:17:41.480 --> 2:17:49.520 um them passing him, and there are three generations worth 2:17:49.600 --> 2:17:54.280 of those people that we're in Roosevelt's womb of time out, 2:17:54.360 --> 2:17:58.720 sharing the resource. He's a profound dude man. That sounds 2:17:58.760 --> 2:18:02.200 like it. He's got some real s angers, all right. 2:18:02.280 --> 2:18:04.560 Thanks for joining h