WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Monster of Florence 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.239 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by this actually 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.480 kind of nice hotel room, but I'm staying in right now. Instead, 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.240 It's brought to you by Bosch Season three, Amazon's acclaimed 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.120 crime series Bosch is back for a third season for 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:17.959 Detective Harry Bosch, Solving crime isn't a job, It's an 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.200 obsession that can claim your soul. After a long search 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.959 for his mother's killer leads him to a police cover up, 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.599 Bosch now finds himself implicated in the death of a 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.120 serial killer he's investigating. Sounds like one of our episodes, 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.200 starring Titus Welliver as Bosch and based on a best 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:37.080 selling novel by Michael Conley. Stream season three on Amazon 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:50.440 Prime starting April one. Thinking Sideways roll to the what 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:55.520 can happen today? I don't know stories of things. We 0:00:55.600 --> 0:01:00.320 simply don't know the answa ton Hey, thereon, Welcome to 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.160 another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Joe, joined as 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:09.080 always by Steve and Devin, and we're here for another 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:13.120 cool mystery h this one from the lovely country of Italy. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.959 The Motherland. Yeah, that's right, Devon's motherland. And Devon has 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.840 been indispensable in pronunciation for this episode. So that's like 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.840 literally all I've given to this. The rest of it 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:26.560 has been kind of negative, like, oh, are you kidding? 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.920 We're doing this one? Not interested? Now? This one's about 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.800 a serial killer who roamed the streets of Florence in 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.160 the nineteen eighties. You may have heard of him. But 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.520 before I talk about it, word a warning. There's some 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.040 really kind of disturbing mutilation here that a lot of 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.240 people will find disturbing, and because really you should, because 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.800 it is and if little years are around, probably should 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.960 save it for later. Yeah, my kids for the next hour, 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:52.440 just your muff. Yeah, you have seen the script. It's 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.560 gonna be two hours. I'm gonna talk fast. Days later. 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.680 I'm gonna talk really one pair of hands later. Okay, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.520 with that out of the way, let's talk about murder 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:06.320 and mayhem. We're talking, of course, about an Italian serial killer. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:08.280 So who else could we be talking about but the 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:12.360 monster of Florence. Yeah, this is a big one. And 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.080 by the way, this was suggested by Paulo. Paulo, thanks 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.480 very much. I assume you must be our other Italian listener. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.280 There's Luigi and others of you. So hey, dude, thanks 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.120 a lot. We appreciate it. I hope you're still listening, 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.760 by the way. But the Monster, and there have been 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.960 other Italian serial killers, by the way, and some pretty 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.720 good ones, but the Monster is really the star infamous. 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.360 Oh he's huge. He's Jack the Ripper, He's the Italian 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:37.880 Jack the Ripper and uh, which always gets the public's attention. Uh. 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:39.919 The other thing about it was he was really praising 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:41.920 and the way he operated. I mean he would go 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.320 and kill people, like right next to a road and 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.799 stuff in view where a car could just drive on by. 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.520 He's mutilating a corpse. You know that he was. He 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.680 was pretty bold. Yeah, he in that regard. He makes 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.760 me think of like the it's the text, are Canna 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.200 Moon like murders? Yeah, I kind of like that, except 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.400 a lot more sick and twisted. Well, I was just 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.000 talking about being willing to do it when your a 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.840 road and all of that fear. Oh yeah, for sure. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.760 The Monster has a much bigger body count though it's 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.600 a lot bigger. Uh. Another thing about and it still 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.360 captures the attention of people is that he never got caught, 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.160 which means there's a pretty good chance that he may 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.040 still be walking around among us. Today, which is a 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.440 little scary creeps me out. That's why I don't go 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.760 to that country. Yeah, I stay away from Italy and all. 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.280 The monster killed between fourteen and sixteen people that we 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.600 know of, and there's a little dispute about one set 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.920 of murders there, which we'll talk about, and that's not 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.800 a record, of course, but it's still a pretty respectable number. 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:46.760 Respectable is that the word they care? That's a lot. 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.720 It's not respectable though, but yeah, well let's just I mean, 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.920 you know, I hopefully people know what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.320 The bulk of the murders took place between nine and 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.320 night five, but there was also in nineteen seventy four 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.200 murder that was connected, and then in nine two, after 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.720 six people have been killed, another connection was made to 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.280 a nineteen sixty eight double murder, which if you include 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.200 that makes sixteen murders all in all. So I'm gonna 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:16.599 start with the first murder first. Yeah, So this happened 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.920 in August one, nineteen sixty eight. The murder ease were 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:24.159 Antonio Lobianco and Barbara Locchi, who were having sex in 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:29.760 the front seat of Antonio's Alfa Romeo Barbara's son, Notalino 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:34.720 made was in the back of the car asleep, So 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.680 that's a little that's a little weird, I guess, I 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.120 think even for the average Italian, that's probably a little weird. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.920 A little background on the whole thing, because this is 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.400 kind of an important one of the murders. Uh Barbara 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.840 was married to a Starginian immigrant named Stefano Mede. Uh. 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.200 Barbara herself was Sardinian and her marriage syste Hana was 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.800 apparently arranged. She was twenty years older than her and 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.360 apparently very unintelligence from what I have heard, and I 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.719 guess that he was not quite her romantic idea, because 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.920 she really screwed around on him a lot, and although 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.320 later reports said that he actually didn't mind, he was 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.640 actually kind of into it, so like to be cuckolded 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:17.440 apparently something. Barbara's latest boyfriend was Antonio Lobianco, which is 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.120 why they were together. Antonio was a bricklayer, a very 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.080 recent Stardini an immigrant himself. On the night of the murder, 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.040 Barbara she had a date with Antonio, which involved first 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.520 going to see a horror movie and then heading up 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.839 into the hills for a little lover's rank Lane romance. 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.600 And as I mentioned before, Barbara's son, Notalino, was along 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.000 for the whole date. Barbara was not the mother of 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:41.240 the year. Not better than leaving him alone home. I 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.320 don't know, taking your taking your six year old kids 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.360 to see a horror movie that seems a little bit well, 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.120 I mean like Creature Creature of the Black Lagoon, like 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.560 you would take your kid to see that. Maybe, I 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.680 guess it depends. I can see where some kids would 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:57.680 be a little at that age might be a little traumatized. 0:05:57.720 --> 0:05:59.880 But he might not have been, well, he was traumatized 0:05:59.920 --> 0:06:02.400 by a later events. Probably, Yeah, we're talking about that 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.760 here in a second. Uh. And also something about Italian culture. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:07.920 Probably most of you have heard this. People tend to 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.200 live at home until they get married, and often even 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:12.840 after they get married, they still live at home. But 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.480 that makes it kind of tricky to have romance, if 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.400 you know, A yeah, and so, well, you know, a 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.280 lot of Italians are Catholic. Oh there's that too, So 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.159 that helps in the living at home situation. Oh yeah, 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.120 good point. Okay, Well, anyway, along, Luckily for the youth 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.840 of Italy, somebody invented the car, and then about five 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:35.720 minutes later, somebody else figured out that you can have 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.960 sex in cars, and so in any given the evening, 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.520 but especially on the weekends, the hills around Florence, Italy 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.000 were full of little dinky Fiat and Alpha's with bumper 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:50.760 stickers that said, don't come knocking if it's rocking in Italian. Yah. Yeah, 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.000 there was lots of that going on. And of course 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.560 that's bond. It's a weird little subculture of guys that 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:58.920 were called Indians by the locals. These were they were 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.520 the lawyers all years. He sculpted around with monocular night 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:07.560 vision devices and cameras and and spied on all these 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.680 young couples having sex. Just weird in its own way. Yeah, 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:13.600 there was, like I said, a whole network of these 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.080 people out there. So what Antonio and Barbara were doing 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.640 really was not at all unusual, except for perhaps a 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:21.520 kid in the back seat, but also maybe not that, 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.680 maybe not even I don't know, maybe have the whole 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:26.920 family in the back seat. Probably not mom and dad, 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:28.600 I hope, because that's the whole reason you're in a 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.040 car to begin with, right, Usually Yeah, But anyway, they 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.640 drove up a dirt road. They were actually outside Floridence 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.040 city limits to the west. They found a nice little 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.320 parking spot next to a stand of cane and proceeded 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.480 to let nature take his course and a little netal 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:44.640 you know, got a nice biology lessons. Well, he was 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.240 asleep in the back right, if he was asleep, supposedly 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.240 he was asleep. I know, six year olds can often 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.880 sleep through kind of anything. I guess that's true. Yeah, 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.080 But what, of course Antonio and Barbara didn't know, is 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.800 that somebody was lurking in the cane next to the car. 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.280 Don't don't If it was corn, I wouldn't have been surprised. Yeah, 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:05.560 not not corn. One of the rear windows of the 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.160 Alpha was rolled down. It was a warm August night. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.160 Uh and at that time, of course, nobody was all 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.320 that worried about serial killers. Um, but would be one 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:15.720 of these days, but not quite yet. Somebody came out 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.840 of the cane, tiptote over to the car, stuck automatic 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.760 pistol through the window, and started shooting. In the end, 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.760 Antonio and Barbara were shot four times each, and little Nettie, 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:27.520 you know, did I mentioned that he was six years old, 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:32.400 was awakened by some blinding flashes and deafening gunshots, and uh, yeah, 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.320 he had quite a night. First the horror movie, then 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.800 he sees copulation, and then he witnesses a double murder. 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:40.880 So I mean, that's quite a it's quite a night. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.319 I never definitely made an impression on him for the 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.360 rest of his life that would really say. It was 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:48.079 the last thing on that list is what made the 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.880 biggest impression. But I'm sure next he was seen at 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.760 a house two and a half kilometers down the road saying, quote, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.719 mommy and uncle are dead in the carne. Apparently she 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.520 called all of her boyfriend were called all of Barbara's 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.320 boyfriends were called uncle. Yeah, so we had a lot 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:05.719 of uncles. That's I mean, that's probably one of the 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.880 least traumatizing ways to deal with that, right, what do 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:14.160 you mean? Yeah, I mean until maybe someday he comes 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.439 daddy and like you just explain that to the kid 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.880 and you say, like he's moving at six, it's really 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:20.959 not an issue, right, But it's easier than saying, like, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.600 this is my boyfriend. He's replacing daddy. Oh yeah, absolutely, 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.439 you know, but it also explains why he's like staying 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.960 over all the time. You should like him, Yeah, all 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:36.080 uncles do this, right, Yeah, maybe hopefully, hopefully, really hopeful. 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.199 I hope. I'm an uncle and I don't do that well. 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.280 So do we know how he got to Uh No, 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.400 I mean he could have walked. I doubt it. Actually, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:49.000 it's the smart kids think that Stefan, his dad Stefano, 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.680 was there and that he took part in the murder 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:53.640 and that he actually carried him to this house and 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.079 dropped him off. Leno said that a man put him 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.319 on his shoulders, saying a show tune like off a 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.360 TV show that was on I believe, and that guy 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.640 was probably the murderer, but that he carried him all 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.079 to this house and then set him down and put 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.439 him there. And because they say that the doorbell was 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.360 too high for him at a six year old at 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.640 his height who have reached up and hit it, so 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:19.439 they think that there had to be an adult there 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.920 to push the button and then run away. Sounds likely, yeah, 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.959 And I frankly, you know, I know we may talk 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.440 about this. It sounds like his story changed a lot, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.199 and he says he doesn't remember anything, and I realistically 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.880 like he was six years old and he saw his 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:40.000 mom get brutally murdered. So I am not surprised. I mean, 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:41.800 I make things up from when I was six, and 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:43.959 they were not traumatic at all, you know, So I'm 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.680 not surprised that he would not have any real memories 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.360 or anything he was willing to identify as real memories 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.760 from that time. Well yeah, i'd be a little fragment 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:57.000 at the league and stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.840 I know that my memory, my memory changed in weird ways. 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.319 I'll go back and check his story that I was 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.160 sure was this way, and I find out I've got 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.040 a lot of details wrong, ye, or I'll you know, 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.760 I'll tell my mom this has been happening a lot 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:11.680 all like say, oh yeah, I remember when this blah 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.720 blah bla happened. And she's like, you, um, you weren't there. 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.719 You've seen lots of pictures of that. And I'm like, 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.160 oh yeah, and those false memories. I invented the memory 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.199 because I've heard the story and seen pictures, and so 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.200 I have put myself in that position. Long story short, 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:31.120 it's not surprising that his story is all over the map. No, 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.959 not really. But back to our murder um. So, whenever 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.360 a married woman and her lover murdered. Well, who do 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.160 you go look at first? Stefan Stefano, the husband, Yeah, 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.719 the holiday man. At first he claimed that he was 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.640 home in bed sick when the murders took place, but 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.520 that alibi didn't hold up, and then police did a 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.600 paraffin test on him, you know what those are protected, 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.679 checking for a gunshot residue, and they found some of 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.240 that on his right hand, indicating he had fired again 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.680 very recently, and that didn't look so good. He also 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.319 gave conflicting stories, and he sort of sort of started 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.360 admitting that he had been there, but then he claimed 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.320 that a guy named Salvatore Vinci was an actual gunman. Uh. 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.800 And then he changed his story and said the Salvatory brother, 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.160 Francesco Vinci, was the one who pulled the trigger. Um, 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.360 And then he changed his story back again and eventually 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.920 recanted that story. I've always wondered if he was if 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.959 his intelligence was as low as it is made out 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.720 to be in the stuff that I've read. I wonder 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.839 how much of his story was led. Do you know 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.400 what I'm saying, Because that's that's we think. We've talked 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.120 about this before, that it's easy to get a witness 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.440 to start telling you a story the way that they 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.280 think you want them to, because they don't realize that 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.440 they're implicating themselves. Yeah, and uh, and police do sometimes 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:48.960 have a way of trying to put words in your 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.840 mouth when they interrogate, intentionally or not. Yeah, sometimes they'll 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.319 they'll they'll do sneaky stuff to get you to fest up. 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.880 But uh, well, let me give some background of Salvatory 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.360 and Francesco. They immigrated to Tuscany from Sardinia in the 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.920 nineteen sixties, and Salvatore rented a room for a while 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.079 in Stefano and Barbara's house, and so of course he 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.360 became one of Barbara's lovers and an uncle, yeah, an 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.800 uncle yeah. And then later Francesco Salvatori and Francesco, even 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.000 though they were brothers, they actually didn't like each other. 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.199 They were rivals and everything. And so Francesco stole Barbara 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.400 away from Salvatore and became the uncle and became the uncle. Uh. 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.480 And then after that, eventually it's Antonio, who was an 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.360 even more recent immigrant from Sardinia, while he stole her 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.520 away from Francesco, became the last uncle and became the 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.200 last uncle. So this is an episode of my three uncles, 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.640 my more than three probably but uh but in a sense, 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.120 Salvatori and Francesco had a motive from murder, so that 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:51.000 Stefano jilted lovers and the jilted husband. Yeah, yeah, and 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.760 uh so and uh. Plus there was some stolen money involved, 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.480 There was some family honor involved, so there were some 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:03.000 other family members possibly there. It's it's complicated anyway. Salvatore, 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.640 because his name had been mentioned, they brought him down 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.920 to the station for questioning, and reportedly, when Salvatore walked 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.839 into the room, Stefano immediately recanted his story and just 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.000 said that he'd done the whole thing by himself. So 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.720 Salvatore apparently, you know, had some sort of intimidating effect 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.480 on Stefano. Well, we'll find out more about that later. 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.600 If you guys are good your vegetables and maybe I'll 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:31.720 tell you. Oh yeah, now, the gun. The police asked 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:33.720 him what happened to the gun, and Stefano said that 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.920 he's threw it into a dish. So police searched all 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.480 dishes in the nearby area and never did find the gun. 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:43.640 They were able to idea the model of the gun though, 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.560 because every gun manufacturer uses different processes for like rifling 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.480 and such, so you can always check tell the model. 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.200 The firing pin makes a different depending on the model, 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.160 the gun makes a different imprint on the shell casing. Uh. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.400 It was a Baretta twenty two handgun, very common in Italy, 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.960 and ring pin and this one was pretty unique. Uh well, 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.960 yeah it was. It was a rectangular firing pin and 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.880 this particular and all firing any firing pin in the gun. 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:10.400 And then the same model a gun, it's going to 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:12.960 have my new differences, just like fingerprints and everything else. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:14.680 And this one had a special little defect in it 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.120 that was that was you know, very very unique, and 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.560 that it had a dimple in it, and so it 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.400 left a very unique mark on the shell casings. And 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.480 it didn't it didn't tend to hit in the center 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.040 anywhere near the center, and all of the images I 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.760 saw it always hit on the kind of the outer 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.880 edge of the shell casing. Yeah. That was a rim 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:40.000 fire cartridge. Oh yeah, so that's why, that's why, that's 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.280 that's why they call it fire. I completely just glossed 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.120 over the rim fire press like it was really weird 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:51.240 that it was always hitting on the outside. Did you write, man, 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.320 you had one job? Yeah, well, okay, you're off the force. 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.800 So did they ever find it? They never found the 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.800 gun still to this day, to this day, as far 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.440 as I know, it was never found. Yeah, you could 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.400 be the owner of that gun, you know. Yeah, I 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:09.040 might have picked it up at the gun show you okay, Yeah, 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:10.800 you might have picked it up a gun show listener. 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.080 So yeah, if you got a Bretta twenty two semi 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.520 automatic gun and take a yeah, it looks old and 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:20.520 it's kept blood on it. Yeah. The police, for their part, 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.240 where they were a little skeptical about Stefano's story because 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.560 he was a small, weak guy, not very bright. It 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.280 seemed like a fairly well planned little murder, and Salvatory 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.600 and Francesco were scarier, scarier guys. I mean, Francesco was 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.560 known to be involved in a lot of criminal activity, 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.640 and they seemed to have some motive also, so it 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.640 wasn't beyond the realm of belief that they also could 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.040 have been involved in this killing at all. I mean, 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:45.520 both of them obviously had a reason, I want to 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.360 shoot Antonio right at the very least. In fact, all 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:49.960 three of them did on the other hand, here they 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.200 had a suspect who was saying that he had done 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.360 it all himself. So they had a confession. This guy 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.000 had a strong motive, They had physical evidence of his 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.920 involvement and his kid. By the way, Natalino and the 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.440 statements to the police did say, at least at first 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:04.880 before he said he couldn't remember anything, he did say 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.159 that his dad was there at the murder scene. And 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.280 so it looked, you know, it looked at them like 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.399 they had a pretty strong case. He was guilty. He 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:16.800 was guilty, apparently even if other people were involved. So 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.320 they went ahead and sent him a trial. He was 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.760 sentenced to fourteen years in prison, got out after about 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.720 six years and went to live in a halfway house. 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.159 So that would have sorry, yeah, it just can you 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:27.560 do the math for me real quick? That would have 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.840 put him out of jail in what year. I'm not sure. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.440 I think he got out in seventy five, because I 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.040 don't think the trial took place until sixty nine. He 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.360 gets out in like seventy five or so, that's fine. 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:40.880 I'm just wondering as we go forward. Yeah, yeah, well 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:42.520 I wanted to. I took I did the same math 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:44.200 because I was wondering if he was out of jail 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.760 at the time the nineteen seventy four murders happened, and 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.320 he was not. He was still in prison when those 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:54.879 murders happened. Speaking of nineteen seventy four, September fifties, nineteen 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.960 seventy four, about ten miles nrtiess of Florence near a 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.520 town called borg San Lorenzo, which is beautiful. Have you 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.000 been there? Yes? Okay, how many times have you been 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:10.719 to Italy two just to let's do Yeah, well it's 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.240 more than me. Yea, hopefully a lot more frequently in 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.800 the near future. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm hoping that 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:18.159 we can all go over there in some sort of 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.040 mystery expedition one of these days. This one. Dang, Yeah, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:22.919 I know, we can go. We can do a remix. 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.080 We'll do it again. Yeah, we'll do a mashup. And 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:27.320 I suppose it's only fair to the citizens of Florence 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.239 to note that, as far as I can tell from 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.399 looking at a map, none of the Monster's killings actually 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.840 took place within the city limits of Florence. They were 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.480 all in suburban, outlying kind of agricultural areas, which makes sense, 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:43.760 those are these places to park? All right? Exactly? Uh 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:45.359 so I guess we should really call him the monster 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:53.600 the greater Metropolitan Florence area. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well back 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.720 to our murder. Here. There were two teenagers, Stefania Pettini 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:03.200 and Pascale gent. I think it's how this pronounced the 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:09.480 third syllable, second syllable emphasis. Okay, uh They were in 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.760 a Fiat. Just about all these murders took places in Fiat's. 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.560 Surprised popular Maybe it was that there were some alpha's 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:26.400 in there too, yeah BMW yeah, some competitive yeah, yes, 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.560 especially next year BMWK about the whole series of magazine 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:31.760 and said, you know, and drive a beam or don't 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:37.080 get killed crazy. Yeah. Well, they were doing something in 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.240 their car, I'm not sure what. They got bush whacked 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.000 and shot, and then Stefania was dragged away from the 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.960 car a little distance about ten meters or so and 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.080 stabbed ninety seven times and not not deep stabbed, but 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.199 they were just like more like pricks, just really shallow stabs. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.600 But I'm sorry, I'm going to be the soundtrack for 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.080 the It's just like, what do you hear when you 0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.800 get to some of the women later on? I guess 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:02.639 what worse. Yeah, but these steps made up and they 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.240 weren't random. They made up like an elaborate design that 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:09.760 went around Stefani's breasts and down to republic area and around. Yeah. 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.280 It also took place next to a vineyard, and the 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.399 murder found a little scrap of woody grape vine material 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.639 which he stuffed up into Stefani's private parts. Um, and 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:25.440 that's about it. No evidence of rape. Oh yeah, he 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.600 didn't use his own Yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh. The 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.320 gun and the knife were not recovered, but analysis of 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.440 the bullets and the showcasing showed that the murder weapon 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:38.480 was a rut A twenty two handgun. But of course 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.080 no connection was made at that time. I mean, these 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:45.399 two things were about fifteen miles apart, in six years 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:51.080 and six years apart, and you know, one really looked 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.040 like it really was a jealous husband thing that didn't 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.400 and then whereas this one more like a random Cico type. 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.760 So I can see why people wouldn't associate them necessarily 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:02.560 in their minds. And then some years went by, our 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:06.000