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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace outside waiting in a getaway car,

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Speaker 1: in communicating with the men on waukie talkie. Eighteen year

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Speaker 1: old Dabby. Once we walked into the bank that it

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Speaker 1: was on, I was running on so much adrenaline and

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Speaker 1: so as I wasn't even really feeling anything. Two individuals

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Speaker 1: walked into the bank and they ordered the tellers and

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Speaker 1: everyone into the vault. She was the muscle with the

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Speaker 1: gun and I was the money guy. Both men are big,

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Speaker 1: over sixty three. Their sheer size and the gun enough

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Speaker 1: to terrify customers, but it's a novice bank robber who's

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Speaker 1: quaking in his boots. I was actually shaking so bad

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Speaker 1: that the employees grabbed the bag and started throwing money

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Speaker 1: in for me. In Hayden's hands, more money than he'd

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Speaker 1: ever dreamed of. How much those fifty thousand dollars away,

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Speaker 1: I'd say fifteen pounds. With her garbage bag full of cash,

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Speaker 1: they sprint out of a bank to the getaway car,

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Speaker 1: which has been outfitted with stolen place the wheelmen a

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Speaker 1: frightened teenager. I was scared. It's just something that it's

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Speaker 1: like one to be over with a teen girls. Part

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Speaker 1: of a vicious bank robbery gang. How the hate did

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Speaker 1: that happen? I guess you'd be pretty surprised like I

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Speaker 1: am when I finally learned that it's all in the family.

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Speaker 1: That's right, the children recruited by the father to become

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Speaker 1: armed bank robbers. I mean, see, Grace, this is crime stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. You know, I'm constantly thinking, Oh,

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Speaker 1: what do I need to do to help the twins?

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Speaker 1: Should I get them a math tutor? Have they been

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Speaker 1: outside enough today? You know what? They have not had

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Speaker 1: five servings of veggies, and I know it. What can

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Speaker 1: I possibly do? How can I disguise fruit and vegetables

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Speaker 1: in their drinks? I mean, it goes on. It's constantly

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Speaker 1: twisting and turning in my brain. It hadn't occurred to

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Speaker 1: me to Ashley Wilcott, judge lawyer anchor. You can find

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Speaker 1: her Ashley Wilcott dot com, that maybe I could get John,

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Speaker 1: David and Lucy to join my robin crew. Nancy, it's

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Speaker 1: not funny, But I'm just sitting here smiling because here's

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Speaker 1: the truth of the matter, and it's really sad. Desperate measures, right,

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Speaker 1: Desperate measures is what this father took to ever think

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Speaker 1: about involving his children, and who cares their ages? They

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Speaker 1: were above the age of eighteen or eighteen and older.

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Speaker 1: Who cares? It doesn't matter, you don't involve your children

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Speaker 1: in criminal activity. But clearly a very desperate man. Well

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Speaker 1: you know what to doctor Ryan Fuller, joining US clinical

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Speaker 1: psychologists and the executive director at New York Behavioral Health.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Fuller, I remember long, long days in the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: You know, you'd be there for eight am, bright eyed

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Speaker 1: and bushey, tilled with You know those white plastic boxes

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Speaker 1: that mail carriers use to deliver mail throughout office. Okay,

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Speaker 1: everybody knows what they are. No, I did not steal them, okay,

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Speaker 1: because I would never steal. But I did use some

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Speaker 1: that were lying around vacant in the hallways. Okay. My

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Speaker 1: point is they're the perfect size to put trial folders,

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Speaker 1: those Manila folders, And for any given calendar call, they'd

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Speaker 1: be one hundred and fifty or more individual cases. So

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Speaker 1: I'd be dragging those around the courthouse all day long,

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Speaker 1: getting ready for arrayment calendars or trials, blah blah. After

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Speaker 1: I would typically hook up with my best friend girl

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Speaker 1: and we'd get dinner, and then I could go home

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Speaker 1: and work somewhere. I remember it was one of those nights.

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Speaker 1: It was dark by the time I got off of work,

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Speaker 1: and I went to a local restaurant I think it

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Speaker 1: was a Houstons, and out in the parking lot, a

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Speaker 1: lady came up to me holding a baby and said

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Speaker 1: she need did bus fare to get to somewhere. She

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Speaker 1: had the baby. It was not a baby doll. It

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Speaker 1: was real. I looked at it. Of course, I had nothing.

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Speaker 1: I was a state prosecutor working two night jobs. I

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Speaker 1: think I had like three dollars seriously with me, and

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Speaker 1: I gave her everything I had, and I just felt

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Speaker 1: so bad that I didn't have more than that for her. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I the blue. The next night, my now husband said, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's go to Houston's and get a chicken salad. I'm

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Speaker 1: like great, So I went over there. Guests who came

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Speaker 1: up to me and the parking lot the same woman,

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Speaker 1: this time with a man, a grown man, a woman

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Speaker 1: and a baby. And I don't know what I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: because I tell my children, if somebody approaches you or

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Speaker 1: even looks you in the eyes and a parking lot,

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Speaker 1: walk away quickly. Honey. I let loose on them, like

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Speaker 1: nobody's business about using a child out in a parking

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Speaker 1: lot at that time. Of I don't know what I thought,

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Speaker 1: like what I had on a bulletproof vest I gave.

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Speaker 1: I took them to Helen back about using that baby

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Speaker 1: and the baby should be at home and whatever, and

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Speaker 1: I immediately called nine one one and had them report.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they actually got them or not

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Speaker 1: to get the baby out of that situation. My point

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Speaker 1: is children are used. Children are used for the parents' goals,

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Speaker 1: and this is a perfect example of that. Putting your

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Speaker 1: teen children in an armed bank robbery situation. The victims

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Speaker 1: at the bank and the guards at the bank, they

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Speaker 1: have no idea these are children. Yeah, I think there's

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Speaker 1: no question from the news reports as actually Wilcot just said,

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Speaker 1: I agree, desperation is even an understatement. You know. It

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Speaker 1: sounds of his father who was experiencing financial problems and

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Speaker 1: grief and worry, and the judgment that was them clemented

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Speaker 1: was just unbelievable. There had to be rationalizations where he's thinking,

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Speaker 1: no one's getting harmed because we're not using real guns.

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Speaker 1: My kids are going to be safe. We can't possibly

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Speaker 1: get caught, and clearly anyone can recognize that's just not

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Speaker 1: the case. The tellers alone or obviously put its great

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Speaker 1: risk in the harm, probably because of the trauma. They

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Speaker 1: don't know. The guns weren't they were being used, weren't real,

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Speaker 1: So it would make sense that some of them could have,

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Speaker 1: you know, horrible emotional and psychological reactions after that. Police

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Speaker 1: officers responding to the scene are speeding to get there

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Speaker 1: as quickly as they can and putting themselves and anyone

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Speaker 1: else on the road at risk. The kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: his children, even though they're adults, I mean, what would

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Speaker 1: happen to their their sense of their own values and morality,

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Speaker 1: And from some of the news reports, clearly there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of guilt and shame and embarrassment afterwards. And so

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Speaker 1: I just think, you know, it's it's clear when things

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Speaker 1: become that extreme judgment went out the window and put

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Speaker 1: everyone at risk, even even when someone thinks they're than

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Speaker 1: a chance of people getting hurt. I mean, clearly everyone

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Speaker 1: involved and even customers in the bank would put at risk.

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Speaker 1: Anyone could have started a gun fight at any point.

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Speaker 1: You're so right, Because Vincent Hill cop turned PI, author

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Speaker 1: of playbook to a murder on Amazon Vincent Hill. When

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Speaker 1: doctor Ryan Fuller says they weren't using real guns, he's right.

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Speaker 1: The teams may not have been using real guns. But

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Speaker 1: I can guarantee you this Vincent Hill, the security guards

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Speaker 1: had real guns. If the cops get there in time,

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Speaker 1: they have real guns. What about that? That's right, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And I can't tell you how many police shootings have

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Speaker 1: occurred by people who had fake guns. Think about Tami

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Speaker 1: or Rights and all these other countless police shootings. And

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Speaker 1: I was in a situation where I almost shot a

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Speaker 1: team who had a fake gun. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: it was fake security doesn't know it. Police definitely don't

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Speaker 1: know it. All they know is they're responding to an

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Speaker 1: armed robbery because even though it's a plastic gun or

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Speaker 1: a fake gun, the intent of the robbery makes it

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Speaker 1: an armed robber. So police would react with what they

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Speaker 1: think is deadly, forced and frankly ash Wolcott. The law

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Speaker 1: specifically states regarding armed robbery. It is in black and white.

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Speaker 1: The statutory code is that an armed robbery is when

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Speaker 1: you use a weapon or a facsimile their ob That's

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Speaker 1: what the word facts means, facsimile. It is a representation

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Speaker 1: of the original document. That's what the law means. You

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Speaker 1: can have a toy gun or something that looks like

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Speaker 1: a gun is still treated as an armed robbery. The

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Speaker 1: effect on the victims is the same, Ashley, That's what

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Speaker 1: I was going to say. It's because of the effect

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Speaker 1: on the victim and the perception. So someone's not going

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Speaker 1: to necessarily know, oh it's a fake gun, oh it's

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Speaker 1: a real gun, and so the law has to reflect

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Speaker 1: that in order to protect the people that are being robbed,

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Speaker 1: and also to make it clear it doesn't matter if

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Speaker 1: you're pretending a gun or not. The intent is you're

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Speaker 1: using a deadly weapon to actually steal. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friends at twenty twenty, she really wanted my help.

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Speaker 1: His mind, two people could be much more successful on it,

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Speaker 1: but maybe a third would be even better, and there

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Speaker 1: was just one cat left to choose. Scott told Hayden

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Speaker 1: to talk to his sister into joining their gang. She

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Speaker 1: was a high school senior, just three months shy of graduating.

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Speaker 1: My dad sent my brother to ask me. Your dad

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Speaker 1: sent your brother to ask you, yeah, to rob backs

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Speaker 1: with him. Yeah. And then the next day my dad

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Speaker 1: just basically laid it all out, you know, buying a

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Speaker 1: new car, I mean to an apartment. Could you have asked, well,

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Speaker 1: why don't you just give me the money? Why do

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Speaker 1: I have to be a bank robber with you? No,

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Speaker 1: I never asked. I mean, it's just in some way

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Speaker 1: I was led on like, this is how I protect them,

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Speaker 1: and these are the only people I have now son

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Speaker 1: and daughters say this is when they crossed over to

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Speaker 1: the criminal side. A plan was in motion, the mark

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Speaker 1: the America Bank just down the luck. The morning of

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Speaker 1: the first bank I asked my dad, you know, are

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Speaker 1: you the devil here to tell me? And his answer

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Speaker 1: is what really scared me. He said, yeah, probably, I'm

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Speaker 1: asking you to rub a bank. So he knew full

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Speaker 1: well the world he was bringing you into. The biggest

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Speaker 1: point he made to me it was the plan for

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Speaker 1: all the details time stories with Nancy Grace in Hateen

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Speaker 1: hands more money than he'd ever dreamed of. How much

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Speaker 1: just fifty thousand dollars away, I'd say about fifteen pounds.

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Speaker 1: With her garbage bag full of cash, they sprint out

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Speaker 1: of the bank to the getaway car, which has been

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Speaker 1: outfitted with stolen plates. The wheelman a frightened teenager. I

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Speaker 1: was scared. It's just something he's like one to be

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Speaker 1: over with. And what was it like driving the getaway car?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's hard because you want to obey traffic

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Speaker 1: class but your adrenaline is pumping. It was hard behind

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Speaker 1: them in my ear my dad were yelled at, mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not drive fast, So I didn't, despite the heckling

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Speaker 1: from her backseat driver. Dad, the reluctant eighteen year old

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Speaker 1: gets them to their apartment half mile away. Undetected guys

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Speaker 1: had gone off without a hitch, just like Dad had promised.

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Speaker 1: Was there a woohoo moment? That's who we got home

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Speaker 1: with her sack full of fifty grand. The spending began, cars, motorcycles,

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Speaker 1: booze and drugs. I'd be spending much more sensible, did

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Speaker 1: you guys celebrate? I went off on my own and

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Speaker 1: disc got my nails done. In fact, the money came

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Speaker 1: so easily and went so fast the two months they

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Speaker 1: burned through all their loot. Time for another bank job.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing our buddy Matt Getman. Ever at twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: at ABC. Okay, askey well kle let me circle back

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Speaker 1: to you isn't it you that was saying desperate times

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Speaker 1: call for desperate measures. Is the rest of that quote? Desperate, desperate, desperate?

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Speaker 1: I hardly think that buying new cars in booze for

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Speaker 1: your teen children is desperate. Desperate to me means you

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Speaker 1: can't pay the rent, you're losing your apartment, you've lost

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Speaker 1: your car, and you can't eat. That's what desperate means

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Speaker 1: to me. Your child needs to go to the hospital

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Speaker 1: and you don't have any money. That's desperate. Buying your

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Speaker 1: teen child booze and new cars that is not desperate,

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Speaker 1: asked she Willcot. I mean, you're the judge, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer. But I object that is

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Speaker 1: not desperate. That is greed. The thought of putting your child,

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Speaker 1: your team girl driving a bank heist getaway car. And

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Speaker 1: you asked you Walcott, don't made me play it back,

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Speaker 1: said desperate times. That's not desperate, that's greedy. You're right,

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Speaker 1: it is greed. Not only that, but add list to

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Speaker 1: the list of qualities, White Jackie. Can you please just

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Speaker 1: get her saying you're right, because I'm going to play

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Speaker 1: that over and over and over just whenever I feel

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Speaker 1: like it. Okay, Okay, what were you saying? So add

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Speaker 1: to the list of qualities of this quote unquote father,

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Speaker 1: and yes it's in quotes because it is not he

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Speaker 1: is certainly not acting as a father, but lack of integrity,

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Speaker 1: because you're right, if they didn't have food, if they

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Speaker 1: were literally unable to get money to put food in

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Speaker 1: their mouths, that is desperation. This is greed. It is

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Speaker 1: teaching the children in addition to all the other things

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Speaker 1: already mentioned in terms of not teaching these children right

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Speaker 1: from wrong, and it's also teaching them, oh, it's okay

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Speaker 1: to take what we want when we want certain things

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Speaker 1: in life that are materialistic, like a new car. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've seen, especially when I was a camp counselor so

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Speaker 1: many spoiled, rotten, greedy brats, and it's a very off putting.

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Speaker 1: But in this case, it sounds more like the dad

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Speaker 1: is the greedy brat. You know. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you. Vincent, the hill cop turned Pi, author of

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Speaker 1: playbook to a murder on Amazon. Vincent. How many times

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Speaker 1: have people been killed in car chases? Probably more than

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Speaker 1: they have been shot down in banks. But think about it.

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Speaker 1: The cops are chasing a car you've got a teen

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Speaker 1: girl driving the car. You've got the dad in the

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Speaker 1: back seat to talk about a backseat driver heckling the

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Speaker 1: girl as she's trying to get away from an armed

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Speaker 1: robbery with a trash bag full of stolen money, and

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Speaker 1: the dad is in the back seat egging her on

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Speaker 1: and attacking her verbally about the way she's driving. He

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Speaker 1: makes the boy go in and steal, and the girl

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Speaker 1: drive the getaway and he's in the back seat laying hello.

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Speaker 1: How many people die every month, every week in getaway cars, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: One of the worst red Cyber worked while I was

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Speaker 1: in patrol was a mom and her son who were

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Speaker 1: killed from a car that was splinging from police. And

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Speaker 1: the sad part about this, Nancy, is typically the person

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Speaker 1: that's fleeing from police aren't the ones that are injured.

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Speaker 1: It's always the innocent family that just happened to be

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Speaker 1: caught in the crossfire. If you will, this high speed

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Speaker 1: chase over something so foolish as robbing a bank so

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Speaker 1: you can go buy liquor and cars and all of

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Speaker 1: this stuff, Nancy, But every day in this country, someone

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Speaker 1: is dying. Be can I'll tell you about that about liquor.

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Speaker 1: You know, the other night I had Lucy. I went

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Speaker 1: to her new girl Scout troop at our church. It

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Speaker 1: was late at night and I was sitting there listening.

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Speaker 1: They were talking about drugs and alcohol. Speaking of look her,

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Speaker 1: I learned the other night, once you get hooked on alcohol,

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Speaker 1: you only have a twelve percent chance of ever getting

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Speaker 1: off of it. With drugs, it's a lot, a lot worse.

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Speaker 1: Like with meth, you've got a three percent chance of

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Speaker 1: beating it. I looked over at Lucy Ashley, you know,

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Speaker 1: Lucy very very well. I looked over at Lucy, and

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Speaker 1: they had up the meth face, you know, with the

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Speaker 1: face covered in sores where the people think there's bugs

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Speaker 1: on them and they scratch them off. If you could

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Speaker 1: have seen that child's face, I almost started laughing, but

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Speaker 1: I knew it was too serious to laugh. I think

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Speaker 1: they scared her. So let's just say that I think

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Speaker 1: she'll get through the sixth grade without trying meth. Now

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Speaker 1: I'm crossing myself right now, but my point is the

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Speaker 1: bank robbery is the worst part. The guns the worst part.

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Speaker 1: But on top of that, when they get the bank money,

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Speaker 1: he gives them liquor. Their teens. This is so screw rude. Up, Ashley,

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Speaker 1: help me, you know, I wish I could help you. Nancy.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this, being on the bench and seeing

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Speaker 1: offenses all day long. When I'm on the bench, nothing

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Speaker 1: surprises me anymore. It this really makes me sick to

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Speaker 1: my stomach because parents are supposed to protect their children,

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Speaker 1: are supposed to instill in their children the things that

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Speaker 1: are right and wrong and how to be kind and

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Speaker 1: how to not break the law. Instead this person, And

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Speaker 1: again I'm saying person not father. This is not a father.

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Speaker 1: This is not a father. This is someone who is

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Speaker 1: not only teaching his children wrong instead of right, he's

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Speaker 1: actually using his children to his advantage by committing crimes

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Speaker 1: that could have resulted in them even being killed. You know, Ashley,

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Speaker 1: how much do I obsess over the twins? Like how

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Speaker 1: many times have I cornered you and this parking lot

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Speaker 1: or that parking lot when I spot you and go?

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Speaker 1: Do you think band is too much? Because is it

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Speaker 1: going to take too much time away from studying? And

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Speaker 1: what about drama? If they sign up for drama, they

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Speaker 1: gotta go to all these practices and they blah blah blah,

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Speaker 1: blah blah. I'm worried about them going to a drama

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Speaker 1: class and this guy has his kids and a getaway car.

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Speaker 1: How did it all start? Listen a light to him

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Speaker 1: about it, and I told him I was going to quit,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't do quite a bit behind their back,

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Speaker 1: and some of it in plain sight. There were arrests.

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Speaker 1: There was brawling, disorderly conduct, and a new more expensive vice, cocaine.

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Speaker 1: He says, three four round a week, and the kids

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Speaker 1: often found themselves assuming the roles of parents. Times went

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Speaker 1: on the lunch break in school. I was going to

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Speaker 1: pay the light bill and I picked up his clothes

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Speaker 1: from the dry cleaner. Scott partied away their savings. They

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Speaker 1: went bankrupt, they lost their home. The lights were out

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Speaker 1: for a fresh started. Scott says, a new job. Can't

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Speaker 1: traded the Oregon greenery for this scenery. An apartment Houston

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Speaker 1: suburb with a whole lot of banks nearby. Money was

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Speaker 1: tight and I was really depressed. That's when he approached

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Speaker 1: me and said, would you be willing to do something

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Speaker 1: to get some money more illegal than selling drugs? And

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Speaker 1: I said yes. So you're eighteen years old, you need money.

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Speaker 1: Your father says I have a plan to rob a bank.

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Speaker 1: Shouldn't your first reaction be are you crazy? Looking back

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Speaker 1: on it, I can't believe that that wasn't my first

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Speaker 1: reaction to say, what are you insane? Why did you

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Speaker 1: go along with it so easily? I had a real struggle.

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Speaker 1: I knew it was wrong, but I was really motivated

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Speaker 1: by the money. The night before the first bank I

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Speaker 1: was supposed to rob with him, I had kind of

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Speaker 1: a panic attack all night, deciding do I want to

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Speaker 1: go down this path of evil? Or is this not

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Speaker 1: for me? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Time for another

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Speaker 1: bank job, the first Community Credit Union, just a few

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Speaker 1: miles from the scene of their first crime before the

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Speaker 1: hit Abbey Cases the bank That's hurt, smiling and grabbing

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Speaker 1: brochures from a bank employee. Eleven days later, it's the

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Speaker 1: SAME's real new disguises, ditching the painter's overalls for safety

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Speaker 1: vests to blend in with nearby construction. They walked into

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Speaker 1: the bank with orange construction vest sign. Did you carry

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Speaker 1: a gun in there? No, which bees a little BB gun,

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Speaker 1: but it looked real. Yeah. I remember a few people's

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Speaker 1: face Still, what was their reaction? Total shock? The terror Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were scared, terrified. Definitely, their take after two bank

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Speaker 1: robberies over one hundred thousand dollars, Holly, Molly, you're hearing

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Speaker 1: our buddy Matt Gutman over at ABC's twenty twenty over

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Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars after the first bank robbery. Then

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Speaker 1: suddenly they needed more money than more money, than more money.

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Speaker 1: You know that's something in people's psyche. Doctor Ryan Fuller

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Speaker 1: are clinical psychologist, executive director in The York Behavioral Health.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like drugs. You get the first hit

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Speaker 1: and then you want some more or money. I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: the love of money the root of all evil. You

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Speaker 1: get a paycheck and then suddenly you want some more.

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Speaker 1: You want more and more and more. Is feeding the

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Speaker 1: be same thing here? What is it about as humans?

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Speaker 1: Why do we always want more and more of everything?

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Speaker 1: One of the things that came to mind has almost

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Speaker 1: sounded like someone who has a gambling addiction, and the

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Speaker 1: son Hayden actually even described it that way that it

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Speaker 1: almost felt like an addiction. They couldn't get enough, and

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Speaker 1: if you see kind of the behavior, you know they

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Speaker 1: have they have plans about what they're gonna do with

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Speaker 1: the money and they're gonna, you know, save it and

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Speaker 1: open a coffee shop, I think was one of the plans.

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Speaker 1: But then as soon as as soon as they have

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Speaker 1: all this cash in hand, you know, ends up being

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Speaker 1: spent on things that are just sort of short term

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Speaker 1: fixes to two emotional problems in the fear and escaping

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Speaker 1: from reality. And then unfortunately they're in the same same

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Speaker 1: situation again and put at risk in going back into

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Speaker 1: the casino the same way a gambler does, rationalizing that

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Speaker 1: this will fix it. And the cyclodist continues, but can

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Speaker 1: I ask you a question, and you're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: dummy down for me, doctor Fuller. Is there something in

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Speaker 1: people's brains? I know they've done all the studies on

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Speaker 1: rats where you give them a little cocaine and then

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Speaker 1: they get addicted and they perform all sorts of experiments

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Speaker 1: on them. I'm not talking about drugs. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: experiences like gambling, like taking risks, like sexoholics, something that's

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Speaker 1: non substance related, like robbing banks. Is there some type

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Speaker 1: of an addiction to adrenaline that is there something physical

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Speaker 1: in your body or your brain that makes you want

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Speaker 1: to keep doing it more and more and more. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there can be. So one of the first studies I

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Speaker 1: worked on when I was very young graduate school actually

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Speaker 1: was was a casino study. Was actually looking at how

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Speaker 1: do people kind of become addicted and get hooked by

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Speaker 1: stop machines. And you know, these casinos they actually study

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Speaker 1: this so they can come up with the right amount

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Speaker 1: of money payoff and the right ratio. And so when

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Speaker 1: people are involved in gambling or you could mentioned you know,

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Speaker 1: sex edition and things like that, there's a blast of

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Speaker 1: things like dopamine. All these pleasure centers get lit up,

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Speaker 1: and obviously that feels really good and it's very reinforcing.

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Speaker 1: And if you think about the reality of those people's

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Speaker 1: lives outside of robbing the bank and the big payoff,

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Speaker 1: not a lot of fun. I mean, running from bills

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Speaker 1: and coming back to you know, feeling like you're bankrupt

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Speaker 1: and you're not feeling good about yourself. And then the

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00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: next thing you know, you're in this exciting experience, you know,

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Speaker 1: where all of a sudden, your brain is being flooded

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Speaker 1: with excitement and all this stuff. Even even if there's

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Speaker 1: danger involved, this is a high level of arousal and

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Speaker 1: that can become quite addictive. Wow. Okay, so dopamine joining

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Speaker 1: me right now now, Crime online dot Com and Investigative

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00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: Reporter where you can find this and all other breaking

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00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: crime and justice needs Ellen colorin Ellen. I need the

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Speaker 1: nuts and bolts of this case. Right now. I only

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Speaker 1: know about a dad really forcing, through the art of persuasion,

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Speaker 1: his children to perform armed bank robberies. Then he declares

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Speaker 1: bankruptcy multiple times because all that money just isn't enough

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Speaker 1: for him. So let's just start at the beginning. What happened, Deka,

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00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: well Nancy. Things started off good for Scott kat He

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Speaker 1: married his high school sweetheart Best Say. They lived in

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Speaker 1: Orderon in a beautiful home. They had two children, and

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Speaker 1: then tragically his wife best got cancer and she died

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Speaker 1: very young. It's just two years later when Abigail was

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Speaker 1: just a baby, and Scott says he just couldn't handle it.

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Speaker 1: He fell apart. He had a good job as a

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Speaker 1: structural engineer, but he was drinking, he was doing drugs,

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Speaker 1: he was partying. He wasn't being the present father. Wait

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Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait wait wait e K I'm slow down,

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Speaker 1: I'm jinking from the fire hydrant here. You're hitting me

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Speaker 1: with too much too fast, Ellen, don't be surprised at

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00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 1: Sometimes in law school, with an especially long sentence in

427
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: one of these Supreme Court rulings, I'd have to read

428
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: the sentence like three or four times and break it

429
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: down into parts and then interpret it and write it

430
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: in the you know, the side of the page so

431
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: I could understand it. I gotta do that with you.

432
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: I gotta break down what you just said. Now. I

433
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: get it that he was married to his high school sweetheart, Beth,

434
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: they have the children, then suddenly Beth passes away. The

435
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: children are babies, and you said he fell apart. But

436
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: did I just hear you say partying? Because in my mind,

437
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: grieving for your high school sweetheart turned wife turned mom

438
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: of your children, parting does not really fit into that

439
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: scenario from me. Now, did you just say that word partying? Yeah?

440
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: And I guess probably a better word would be bar crawling. Um,

441
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: he wasn't, oh number one. Technically, technically that's two words.

442
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: But bar crawling to me is even worse. I mean,

443
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: where are your children while you're, as you say, bar crawling?

444
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: Where are the babies? Where were they? Well, once, once

445
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: they were older, they were they were really on their own. Um,

446
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: they weren't. They were having to take when they were teenagers.

447
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: They were having to pay bills for the holes. Okay,

448
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you're going so fast. I asked you

449
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: where were the babies, and suddenly they're teenagers in your mind, Eka,

450
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: paying bills. Basically as she will caught, they were raised

451
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: like bears in a cave. The father just goes off

452
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: bar crawling and leaves the children at home. As I

453
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: used to say to David, those babies ain't going to

454
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: change their diapies theirselves get in there. So I mean,

455
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: who's taking care of these children? The mom passes away tragically.

456
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: She seemed to be the glue that holds the family

457
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: to other and the dad's out at the bar. Hello, Yeah,

458
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: he's not raising them. I would suggest that it's not

459
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: even raising them like bears. He's not raising his children.

460
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: He is focused on himself, egocentric, doing whatever he wants.

461
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: He is not raising his children. He's leaving them to

462
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: raise themselves. Oh okay, Eka, not that you have misreported anything.

463
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: It's me. It's not you. I feel like we're breaking up.

464
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: It's me, not you. Explain to me again. So let's

465
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: just pick off before the teams are paying bills. I

466
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: want to get back to the babies at home alone

467
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: while dad's at the bar. Part the mom passes away,

468
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: he goes spiraling down, And seriously, I'm kind of like

469
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: pulling your leg a little bit, KA, because grief takes

470
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: all sorts off forms. You can become an alcoholic, you

471
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: can become depressed and commit suicide, you can go in

472
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: a sex spiral, you can do all sorts of things

473
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: you would normally do had you not lost the person

474
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: you love. So I'm actually not judging him for the

475
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: bar crawling, except for the fact that children are at

476
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: home alone, so they go into a period of mourning.

477
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: But what happens then, you know what, I'll advance you

478
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: up to the ten years. What happened well, because of

479
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: the drinking and the excessive spending. Even though Scott has

480
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: a good job, he he doesn't feel like enough, he's

481
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: not making ends meet like he wants to. And his

482
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: own father worked at a bank and that's what puts

483
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: the idea in his mind that maybe he can rob

484
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: a bank, because he remembers as a child his father

485
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: coming home from work one day and saying, we were

486
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: robbed today at the bank, and young Scott says, well

487
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: what about the money, and the father says, don't worry,

488
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: We're insured. So Scott's thinking, even if I take this

489
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: money from the bank, they're going to get it back.

490
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: So he's already rationalizing it, I'm not really stealing it

491
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: at all because they're going to have it replaced. Wow. Okay,

492
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: so all this really started when the dad was a

493
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: kid and his dad, who worked at a bank, comes

494
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: home and says, we were robbed. That's a yes. No.

495
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: Did I get that right? Eka? Okay, so this is

496
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: what I know. Also, the children, Hayden Abbey did manage

497
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: to attend mcmnville High School. They were both honor students

498
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: and members of the swimming team, so he was doing

499
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: something right. Scott kat was the president of the mcmanville

500
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: Swim Club board of directors. He was very well respected

501
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: in the community. But then he loses his job again.

502
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: His house becomes foreclosed. He got connected with a corporate

503
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: head hunter who specialized in engineering and relocated to Texas.

504
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: It was then in an entirely new environment. His children

505
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: drop out of school. Abby goes to live with her grandmother.

506
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: Hayden moves to Hawaii, to work at a resort, but

507
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: pretty soon they all pared back up in Texas. They

508
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: were then living in a middle class community outside Katie, Texas,

509
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: a suburb of Houston, and they appeared to be everyday, harmless,

510
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: regular people. And kat was holding out a very well

511
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: paid job as an engineer, trying to figure this whole

512
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: thing out. Abby worked at a mall, Hayden was trying

513
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: to get established as a concierge in a hotel, and

514
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: then suddenly they end up with guns in their hands.

515
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. But the loop isn't exactly

516
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: divide it up evenly according to the kids, what percentage

517
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: were they willing to give you? Did you feel like

518
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: ten percent was enough? Oh? Yeah, because I never even

519
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: had that much money, so a whole life. Nine thousand

520
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: dollars It was enough for me, enough to buy a

521
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: very practical used forward focus and more of those manicures.

522
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: I know the part that I played really wrong, but

523
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: it was my family, and that the LOYALTYAMS was greater

524
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: at that point, but her father and brother seemed more

525
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: loyal to the cold hard cash that was coming in

526
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: and to blowing it fast, shopping cars, partying, really nothing

527
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: to show for it. When the comforts of daily life

528
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: include Jack Daniel's new Chevy Tahoe Harley and a swank

529
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: New Houston apartment. Even one hundred gees can disappear pretty fast,

530
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: and for the Cat family that meant one thing. Time

531
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: to go back to work. Had you planned another heist? Yeah?

532
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: I think we're going to do probably one or two

533
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: more that day. Yeah, welcome back, everybody. A dad, Scott

534
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: Cat brings his own children into violent and armed bank robberies. I,

535
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thanks for being with us,

536
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: so Eka, now you're hearing my buddy over at twenty

537
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: twenty that was Matt Gutman. And now to the point

538
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: where they're doing multiple bank robberies a day. Yeah, this

539
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: is at the point where Scott has really he's had

540
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: success on his own as a bank robber. He's gotten

541
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: away with it for years in Orgon, and now he

542
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: thinks that he's so good at it he voluntarily decides

543
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: to quit his job and become a full time bank robber.

544
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: But he also decides that in order to make this

545
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: a full time profession now he needs to recruit his

546
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: two children, one of them who was still in high school.

547
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: And how did he do it? How did he manage

548
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: to recruit them and convince them to do this thing? Well,

549
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: he started with his son, Hayden. He went to Hayden

550
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: and he said, listen, I have something to tell you.

551
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: I've been a bank robber for a long time and

552
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: I've got I'm good at it, but now I kind

553
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: of want to expand. And he convinced Hayden that this

554
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: was an okay thing to do because he had a

555
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: track record of getting away with it for so long.

556
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: So Hayden, wanting to be loyal to his father, believes

557
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: he knows what he's doing. Maybe I should just go

558
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: along with this. And then instead of just talking to

559
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: his own daughter himself, he sends his son, who's very

560
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: close with his sister, to convince her. So he's already

561
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: having the sun do the dirty work. I mean, this

562
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: goes all the way back to around two thousand when

563
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: Scott kat the father, drops the children off at school,

564
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: then goes to a nearby bank wearing a ball cap,

565
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: black sweats, a white painter's mask, and sunglasses. He threatens

566
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: the tellers. He has an unloaded antique pistol and he

567
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: walks away with nearly three thousand dollars. I guess that

568
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: was a lot for that time. But then a few

569
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: days later, police issue a granny surveillance photo of Kat.

570
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: From the surveillance footage, then they say, I got a question,

571
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: that says my mother says the man the photo looked

572
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: like me, and I laughed. Kat said, oh, it was

573
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: the grandmother. So when this came across the airwaves, the

574
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: grandmother Scott Kat's mother said, wow, that guy kind of

575
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: looks like you, and Kat just laughs and they all

576
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 1: go out to dinner. He managed to get away with it.

577
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: After the first heist, he was addicted. Listen to this.

578
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: It was August two thousand and six when the masked

579
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 1: man robbed the first Federal bank on Baker Creek Road.

580
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: He didn't show a gun. A year later, this photo

581
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: was snapped of a masked man robbing the Washington Mutual

582
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: Bank on Highway ninety nine in Mcminville. Please say, it

583
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: looks like he has a gun and he got away

584
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: with a few thousand dollars. We don't know if the

585
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: kids were involved in the local robberies. It was kind

586
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: of surreal and didn't weren't believe it. Abbey's roommate paid

587
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: her a visit in jail this weekend. If it were

588
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: anybody else asking her to do that, she would never

589
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: have done. I think out of loyalty. She felt like

590
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: she ought to. Detectives believed the trio pulled off seven

591
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: bank heists in two states while wearing different disguises. Federal

592
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: courts records show that Ronald Scott Kat had declared bankruptcy

593
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: twice in two thousand and three and two thousand and five,

594
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: but those bankruptcies were dismissed. Okay, I got so many

595
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: questions here to doctor Ryan Fuller. I need to shrink

596
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: doctor Fuller. Two questions. One is about a spend a holic.

597
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: You see on TV, the people that lay around on

598
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: their sofa all day in order from like the shopping network,

599
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: all those shopping networks, and it doesn't even seem real

600
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: that they're buying stuff. And I actually have a friend

601
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: who shall remain anonymous, who has closets full of stuff.

602
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: She gets these good deals going on eBay of like sheets,

603
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: sets and comforters and knickknacks. It's just stuffed. Every closet

604
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: is stuffed with stuff that it's not even opened up.

605
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: And she's so proud. Hey, I got this for whatever

606
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: X amount of money. She's so proud. But I'm like,

607
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: what are you going to do with all this stuff?

608
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: So is there some kind of an addiction about spending?

609
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: Is this guy's already declared bankruptcy twice? Doctor Fuller? Well?

610
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: Spending on those kinds of things sometimes we call it

611
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: retail therapy or alcoholic or these sort of process or

612
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: behavioral addictions. We certainly do see people present that way

613
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: in our center, and they do. They do that at

614
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: many of the behaviors of other addicts, people who struggle

615
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: with substances. They may not have physical withdrawals in the

616
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: same way, but they do seem to get these, you know,

617
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: huge bursts of excitement and get lit up when they're

618
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: actually making purchases, even when money is low. But what

619
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: you see afterwards the courses that is the dip. You

620
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: know once again they're you know, sad, disappointed, board want

621
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: more money of colorful yeah, and then they have to

622
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: go back and do whatever they need to do to

623
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: to get that hit hit again. You know, what about

624
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: getting a job? You know. Vincent hill Cop turned pi

625
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: author of playbook to a murder on Amazon Vincent another

626
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: thing that is really fascinating me, and I'm not admiring it.

627
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: It's more like looking at a snake underglass box that

628
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: kind of fascination. This guy, Scott Kat had a complete

629
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 1: double life. Everybody was convinced he was this awesome dad.

630
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: He made a point of cooking dinner for his children

631
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: every night, and there in mcminville he was thought of

632
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: as a single dad who supported his children, took them

633
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: on summer trips to amusement parks, president of the swim club.

634
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: How many criminals actually have I say, a day job,

635
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: in other words, a facade they were to everybody else

636
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: except when they're committing crimes. Yeah, Nancy, it's more common

637
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: than people think. And there's a second element to this

638
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: double life. We heard talks of cocaine, and in the

639
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: words of Rick James, cocaine's a hell of a drug.

640
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of people that are addicted

641
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: to drugs that go out and do things to get

642
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: those drugs that people have no clue was going on

643
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: in that person's life. And I think Kat is a

644
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: prime example of that, no doubt about it. And ultimately,

645
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: of course, at all came crashing down police in Texas

646
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: told us when the father, son, and daughter were arrested,

647
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: the father admitted to five robberies in Oregon, but that

648
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: was the extent of the information. Well, today, Mcmanville police

649
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: tell me there is a strong possibility that they are

650
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: the suspects in their two unsolved bank robberies. This all

651
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: came to light when sheriff's deputy is near Houston, Texas,

652
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: arrested Ronald Scott Kat and his children, Hayden and Abbey

653
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: last week. Detectives say the father and son wore construction

654
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: vests and had guns. Hayden wore a fake mustache, while

655
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: Abby drove the getaway car back in Mcminville, where the

656
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: family used to live and the kids had been honor

657
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: students and competitive swimmers at Mcmanville High School. Police tell

658
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 1: me they're looking at whether the father is the man

659
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: in this photo. So Ellen Lauren, they all pled guilty.

660
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: What was the sentence on Abbey. Abbey was given a

661
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: sentence of five years, but she was released about halfway

662
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: through that sentence on parole and she's now out and

663
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: she's trying to put her life back together. What was

664
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: Hayden sentence? Ten years? And he is still incarcerated. M

665
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: And what about the dad's got cat twenty four years

666
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: and he was aged fifty one when he was sent

667
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: This very likely they will never be a family together

668
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: around the dinner table again. Coincidentally, where the whole thing started.

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00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: At breakfast, Scott Kat tells his family he has a

670
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: second job as a bank robber, and the children say

671
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: when they looked at his face, they knew he was

672
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: not kidding. A life of crime and the payoff at

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00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: the end. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off Goodbye friend,