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Speaker 4: What's that Mango?

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Speaker 5: I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast,

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Speaker 5: Part Time Genius, but even though we've done over two

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Speaker 5: hundred and fifty episodes, we don't really talk about murderers

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Speaker 5: or cults.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese,

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Speaker 4: so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy. We

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Speaker 4: And how do dollar stores make money? And then, of

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Speaker 4: saying is everyone should be listening. Listen to Part Time

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Speaker 4: Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, or have you left the house yet today?

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Speaker 3: I have Yeah, I record in my garage. I have

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Speaker 3: a setup there, so thankfully I'm out of the house.

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Speaker 3: But if you mean like leaving the premises of my house, no,

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Speaker 3: I haven't done that yet. I mean it's not even noon.

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Speaker 3: Who leaves the house before noon?

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Speaker 1: I guess most of humanity have that experience.

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Speaker 3: Are you saying I'm not part of humanity?

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying maybe you have more inertia than the

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Speaker 1: rest of us.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Hey, cartoonists, address tends to stay in rest less

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Speaker 3: an external deadline is applied to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's Newton's forgotten fourth law of cartooning physics.

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Speaker 3: Forgotten or he never got to it because he had

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Speaker 3: too much inertia.

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Speaker 1: He never managed to change out of his pajamas.

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Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Horee. I'm a cartoonist and the creator of

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Speaker 3: PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at UC Irvine, and I have my own kind of inertia.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, is it mostly around your waist or do

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Speaker 3: you have a very inertial head.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of more conceptual inertia. Once I have an idea,

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 3: Like to let go of it, So the idea has inertia,

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Speaker 3: though is that what you mean? Is it a heavy

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Speaker 3: idea or a light idea?

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Speaker 1: It sort of stubbornly sticks around in my brain. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: I'll get curious about something and it just will not

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Speaker 1: leave me for months or years, until eventually I find

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Speaker 1: an answer.

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Speaker 3: Aren't you describing all physicists?

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Speaker 1: Though?

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Speaker 3: Is a nursertain sense amount of compulsion you need to

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Speaker 3: be a a researcher, a scientist.

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Speaker 1: I think there is in fact a minimum quantum level

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Speaker 1: of obsession you have to have in order to dedicate

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Speaker 1: your life to these crazy ideas.

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Speaker 6: Well.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully you're a new Obsession, which is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we explore the entire universe without leaving our

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Speaker 1: houses or changing out of our pajamas. We help you

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Speaker 1: perform the incredible feat of trying to import the entire universe,

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Speaker 1: all the stars and galaxies, in tiny particles and alien

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Speaker 1: landscapes that might be out there into your brain without

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Speaker 1: ever leaving your home. If you are lying in bed,

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Speaker 1: or sitting on your couch, or otherwise chillin' out, we

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Speaker 1: hope to bring the entire universe to you.

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Speaker 3: That's right, because it is a pretty heavy universe, full

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Speaker 3: of massive and amazing revelations and things to discover. Did

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Speaker 3: we try to fit all inside of your head.

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Speaker 1: It's a big project to understand how the universe works,

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Speaker 1: and something we've been working on for a long time, decades, centuries,

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Speaker 1: even millennia. If you take seriously early in Greek physics.

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Speaker 3: Which you don't, right, I've seen you talk about Greek physicists,

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Speaker 3: or as you like to call them, Greek guessers.

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Speaker 1: You know, they had a different approach. They began by

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Speaker 1: thinking internally just what made sense to them. The concept

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Speaker 1: of empiricism came a little bit later, actually going out

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Speaker 1: and testing these ideas to see if they do describe

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Speaker 1: our universe. Is a little bit more modern than the

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Speaker 1: ancient Greeks.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's a little bit unfair though, because like,

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Speaker 3: you know a lot more than them, but only because

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Speaker 3: there were a lot of people who did signs and

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Speaker 3: research before you did. Like if you were born in

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Speaker 3: Greek times, who knows what you might be thinking.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's definitely true. And I don't claim to be

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Speaker 1: smarter than Aristotle or Galileo. I think the lesson to

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Speaker 1: take away from it is that progress is slow, and

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Speaker 1: that things that seem obvious to us were actually big

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Speaker 1: intellectual steps forward, and we can't really recognize that anymore

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Speaker 1: because we are so marinated in our current way of

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Speaker 1: thinking we forget how big an intellectual leap it was

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Speaker 1: to try to describe the universe in terms of mathematics

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Speaker 1: and make predictions and go out and test those things.

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Speaker 1: All of that was a big idea that took thousands

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Speaker 1: of years to bubble up from inside human brains.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, although it all seems like Greek to me these days,

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Speaker 3: there is a lot of scientists have discovered and theorized

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Speaker 3: about the universe, and we've made a huge amount of progress.

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Speaker 3: We have a pretty solid theory about what things are

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Speaker 3: made out of and also how the stars and the

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Speaker 3: galaxies and the black holes out there moved.

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Speaker 1: It is kind of incredible how much progress we have made.

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Speaker 1: Our mastery of technology is evidence that we understand how

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Speaker 1: the universe works at a very microscopic scale all the

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Speaker 1: way up to a macroscopic scale. We can use computers,

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Speaker 1: which are based on the motions of tiny little particles

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Speaker 1: to guide enormous things like a seven forty seven across

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Speaker 1: the ocean. It's this harmony between the very very small

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Speaker 1: and the very very big. We have explored the universe

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Speaker 1: at all of these scales and many scales in between,

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Speaker 1: and at each step we can find some story to

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Speaker 1: tell about what's going on, how things work, what laws

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Speaker 1: they seem to be following. It never ceases to amaze

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Speaker 1: me that the universe is understandable.

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Speaker 3: It is pretty amazing. Although even though we have theories

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Speaker 3: that can predict things like the motion of particles and

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Speaker 3: the motion of galaxies and stars out there in space,

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Speaker 3: that doesn't necessarily mean that we understand these theories or

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Speaker 3: what they mean or where they come from.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we tell little mathematical stories about the universe, but

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's useful to stop and say, like, what is

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Speaker 1: this thing we are talking about anyway? Like we have

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Speaker 1: the Shortener equation that tells us the wave function of

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Speaker 1: a particle and how it moves through space, but it

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Speaker 1: leaves unanswered important questions like well, what is a particle anyway?

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Speaker 1: And it turns out that physicists and philosophers have riotously

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Speaker 1: different opinions about what this thing is we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: But we can still tell stories about these objects even

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Speaker 1: if we don't quite understand what they are. But it's

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Speaker 1: very fun and very fruitful to dig into these questions

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Speaker 1: and try to understand exactly what it is we are

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Speaker 1: talking about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there are still very basic things about the universe

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Speaker 3: we don't understand. And they don't just relate to tiny,

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Speaker 3: little miniscule particles that you can't see. It also applies

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Speaker 3: to you and me and what you do every day,

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Speaker 3: which is to move.

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Speaker 1: Or to not move, and to just sit in your

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Speaker 1: chair here all day long.

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Speaker 3: Are you describing physicists or cartoonists or both?

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Speaker 1: I was just being general. I don't know why you're

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Speaker 1: particular responding.

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Speaker 3: You know, well, why are you mentioning it?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's a sort of mysterious process. Right. You sit

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Speaker 1: in your chair, and you stay sitting in your chair.

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Speaker 1: You expect that, unless you're getting up to move across

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Speaker 1: the room or go fetch another banana, you're going to

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Speaker 1: be in your chair all day long. And that's the

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Speaker 1: kind of thing that seems obvious to you, and it

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Speaker 1: seemed obvious to Aristotle, and it seems obvious to everybody.

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Speaker 1: But understanding the mechanics of it, like why things at

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Speaker 1: rest stay at rest, why things in motion. Stay in

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Speaker 1: Motion raises some really fascinating issues about like what is momentum?

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Speaker 1: What is inertia? What is mass?

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Speaker 3: Anyway, so today on the podcast, we'll be tackling the

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Speaker 3: question what is quantized inertia. I'm guessing this means quantum

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Speaker 3: mechanics of inertia.

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Speaker 1: It's two buzzwords stuck together to make a buzzword. Finish.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure inertia is a buzzword. Do people use

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Speaker 3: it to denote, you know, exciting things? Not usually? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: inertia is never a good thing, is it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like Silicon Valley disruptors, they're usually looking to disrupt

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Speaker 1: industries that have too much inertia.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's something you want to break. I guess unless

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Speaker 3: you're a cartroonism, which case you enjoy a little bit

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Speaker 3: of inertia sometimes. But it is a fascinating question because

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Speaker 3: I feel like inertia is a word that you know

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Speaker 3: even as a little kid. You learned pretty early on

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Speaker 3: that it's just like what heavy things have that makes

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Speaker 3: them hard to move. And so to think about the

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Speaker 3: idea that we don't know what it is is kind

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Speaker 3: of crazy. M hmmm.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting word also because I'm not sure if it

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Speaker 1: comes from physics and then we use it in our

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Speaker 1: lives to describe, like our emotional states or our motivation

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Speaker 1: levels as a metaphor for a concept from physics or

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Speaker 1: for when the other direction and physics stole it from

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Speaker 1: English because it's similar to the concept that already existed.

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Speaker 3: Mm, there's no history words in physics.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure there is, but I'm not an expert

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Speaker 1: in linguistics. Somebody out there who knows the history of

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Speaker 1: the word inertia write in and let us know.

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Speaker 3: Well. Also, it depends what you call on a scientists, right,

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Speaker 3: maybe like early cavemen saw big rock and they found

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Speaker 3: it hard to move, and they said, you know, came

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Speaker 3: up with a word for it, And that's kind of

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Speaker 3: like being a scientist, right.

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Speaker 1: That's certainly being descriptive. I think philosophers of science might

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Speaker 1: quibble about whether you're doing science just by describing your

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Speaker 1: experience in the world. I think maybe science also requires

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Speaker 1: developing a model to explain what you've seen, what you've

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Speaker 1: experienced that also predicts what would happen in the future.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure they predicted that the rock would have moved.

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Speaker 1: Rock was heavy, yesterday, Rock heavy today, rock heavy tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Me scientists me published first paper or first rock.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, first stone tablet, first cave painting, got a publication range.

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Speaker 1: Of one impact factor one.

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Speaker 3: It is a pretty amazing question to ask, because I

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Speaker 3: imagine it's not a question people ask every day, like

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Speaker 3: what is inertia? We just kind of take it for

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Speaker 3: granted that inertia exists.

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Speaker 1: We do take it for granted, especially because we have

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Speaker 1: fairly solid theories of physics which use it, you know,

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Speaker 1: Newtonian physics, Einsteinian relativity. They all rely on this concept

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Speaker 1: of mass and on inertia, so they play a role

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Speaker 1: in the mathematical stories these theories tell, but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that they necessarily explain what it is or where

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Speaker 1: it comes from. Einstein's relativity can tell us that things

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Speaker 1: with energy in them have mass, and that mass has inertia,

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Speaker 1: but doesn't answer the question why why do things with

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Speaker 1: energy in them tend to need a force to accelerate

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Speaker 1: them for example?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's a pretty fascinating question. And so, as usual,

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Speaker 3: we were wondering how many people out there had thought

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Speaker 3: about this question or had heard of the term quantized inertia.

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Speaker 1: So Thanks very much to everybody who volunteers for these

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Speaker 1: to be on the mic for the podcast. We really

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. If you'd like to hear your voice speculating

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Speaker 1: about future topics for the podcast, please don't be shy

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Speaker 1: write to us to questions at Danielandhorge dot com.

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Speaker 3: So think about it for a second. What do you

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Speaker 3: think is quantized innership. Here's what people had to say.

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Speaker 6: First, I'm going to take a wild guess that quantized

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Speaker 6: inertia is essentially just a quantized view of inertia. And

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Speaker 6: secondly that you're using the same definition of inertia as

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Speaker 6: I learned in school way back when. I guess you

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Speaker 6: would just build the quantum of inertia with the quantum

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Speaker 6: of mass times the quantum of distance over the quantum

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Speaker 6: of time, and quantized inertia would be inertia momentum whateveryon

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Speaker 6: want to call it measured in that unit.

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Speaker 7: Quantized inertia sounds to me like it's going to be

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Speaker 7: small packets of movement that can be discreetly segmented into

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Speaker 7: little individual quantized bits of movement. So it's not this

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Speaker 7: continuous Everything stays in motion as long as it's in

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Speaker 7: motion that we would expect from Newtonian.

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Speaker 1: Physics inertia, but quantized quantized inertia. So I don't know.

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Speaker 8: I don't know what contestintia means, but I'm guessing it's

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Speaker 8: something to do with inertia that originates from something that

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Speaker 8: doesn't have mass. So if you were to take a box,

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Speaker 8: an empty box, like completely empty, I mean, apart from

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Speaker 8: virtual particles, I guess. But if you had an empty

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Speaker 8: box and waited, it would weigh less than if you

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Speaker 8: took a box with photons in it, even though photons

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Speaker 8: are massless according to the currently prevailing theory, just because

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Speaker 8: of the emotion, because of their momentum, that box would

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Speaker 8: have inertia. So I don't know. Because photons are the

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Speaker 8: quanta of the lecture magnetic fields, so maybe that's what

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Speaker 8: quine size inertia means, but I'm not sure.

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Speaker 3: All Right, not a lot of valid guesses here. I

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Speaker 3: like the person who said it's inertia but quantized. Isn't

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Speaker 3: that what quantum physics is. It's physics, but quantized.

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Speaker 1: That's what quantum everything is, right, Quantum dessert dippin' dots?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I think quantizing a dessert would probably help

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Speaker 3: with your own inertia around your waist.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think the smaller the pieces are,

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Speaker 1: the more of them you can have, So you just

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Speaker 1: end up consuming an infinite number of dippin' dots. They're

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Speaker 1: so small. How can they possibly add up to anything.

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Speaker 3: That seems physically impossible? Daniel, are you're a physicist.

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Speaker 1: I can bend logic when it comes to dessert.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, does make it harder to bend your body.

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Speaker 1: But I did really like the answer that suggested that

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Speaker 1: quantized inertia could come out of quantized distance and quantized time. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: if all of reality is quantized, then everything is quantized,

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Speaker 1: including inertia and dessert.

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Speaker 3: M Yeah, yeah, I guess if space is quantized, and

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Speaker 3: technically moving through space or not moving through space is

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Speaker 3: also quantized.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Either you're eating dessert or you're not, unless

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Speaker 1: it's quantum mechanics, in which case maybe you're doing both

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Speaker 1: at the same.

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Speaker 3: Time the dessert uncertainty principle.

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Speaker 1: So this is a really fun topic, quantized inertia. I

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Speaker 1: like it because it touches on a really core question

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Speaker 1: in physics, like what is inertia and mass? Anyway, But

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Speaker 1: also lets us explore a recent hypothesis suggestion that might

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Speaker 1: answer those questions.

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Speaker 3: Right, And I guess, just to be clear, quantized inertia

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Speaker 3: is a concept that comes from a theory that tries

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Speaker 3: to explain what inertia is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. It suggests that inertia comes from tiny,

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Speaker 1: little quantum effects in the universe.

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Speaker 3: All right, well, let's jump into it. And I guess

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Speaker 3: it's start at the beginning. What do physicists call inertia?

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Speaker 3: How do they define it?

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Speaker 1: So inertia first appears in Newton's theory, right, it tells

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Speaker 1: us that things in motion will stay in motion and

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Speaker 1: that things at rest will stay at rest. And in

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Speaker 1: that sense, it's another way to state conservation of momentum.

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Speaker 1: You know, things that have no momentum their mass times

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Speaker 1: their velocity will continue to have no momentum unless you

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Speaker 1: apply a force to them, unless you accelerate them by

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Speaker 1: applying a force. Things who have constant velocity constant momentum

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Speaker 1: will contain you to have that momentum unless again, you

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Speaker 1: apply a force to change that momentum. So that's the

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Speaker 1: principle of inertia.

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Speaker 3: Right, It's kind of the idea that if something has velocity,

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Speaker 3: it's hard to change that thing's velocity. Right, So that's

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Speaker 3: kind of the concept. And maybe the more of it

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Speaker 3: that you have, the more inertia that you have, the

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Speaker 3: harder it is to change that velocity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's where Newton's laws of physics come in. Right,

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Speaker 1: you have a certain velocity, you need to apply a

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Speaker 1: force to change that velocity. And because force is mass

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Speaker 1: times acceleration, then to get a larger acceleration you need

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Speaker 1: a larger force. Because force is mass times acceleration. The

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Speaker 1: more mass you have, the larger the force you need

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Speaker 1: to get the same acceleration. So things that have more

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Speaker 1: mass therefore need bigger forces in order to accelerate them.

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Speaker 1: Like if you push on a tiny rock, you're going

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Speaker 1: to accelerate it more than if you push on the

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Speaker 1: entire Earth with the same force.

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Speaker 3: Right, So then I guess is inertia related to mass?

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Speaker 3: Does it include mass or is it just the general

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Speaker 3: concept that you need a force to move a mass?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: The mass that we're talking about there we often call

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Speaker 1: inertial mass because we think it's the mass that gives

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Speaker 1: things inertia. The property of having mass. If you didn't

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Speaker 1: have mass, then you wouldn't have inertia. So if the

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Speaker 1: inertia comes from having mass, because you also need that

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Speaker 1: mass to have momentum.

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Speaker 3: Right, Although could you also say that you can't have

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Speaker 3: mass if you don't have inertia, or that what we

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Speaker 3: call mass is actually the property of inertia.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the second that what we call mass

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Speaker 1: is actually the property of inertia. That's why we get

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Speaker 1: more specific and we call it inertial mass.

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Speaker 3: Right, because there are other kinds of masses.

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Speaker 1: There are other kinds of masses exactly. And it's also

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Speaker 1: a subtle distinction between momentum and inertia because it is

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Speaker 1: possible to have momentum without mass, Like photons have momentum

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Speaker 1: even though they don't have any mass.

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Speaker 3: Does that mean photons have inertia or not? Or is

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Speaker 3: it all very light?

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Speaker 1: Well, photons do carry momentum, right, And so a photon,

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Speaker 1: for example, can bounce off of something and push it,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a soul or sale is a photon

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Speaker 1: pushing on something and transferring its momentum to that object.

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Speaker 1: So in that sense, they have momentum, but inertia is

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Speaker 1: like the resistance of an object to changing its velocity,

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Speaker 1: and photons can't change their velocity, right, they always travel

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Speaker 1: at the speed of light. So inertia when it comes

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Speaker 1: to photons is very confusing.

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Speaker 3: Does that mean photons have infinite inertia?

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting question. You can change the direction of

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Speaker 1: a photon even though you can't change its velocity, and

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Speaker 1: that does actually count as a change in its velocity

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Speaker 1: vector because you're changing its components. Something with infinite inertia

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't be able to change its direction either. So

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Speaker 1: light is a sort of special category there.

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Speaker 3: I think you're saying that light does have inertia, or

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Speaker 3: maybe that it doesn't apply to things without inertial mass.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a few different concepts here. There's momentum,

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Speaker 1: which light definitely carries, but inertia here we're talking about

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Speaker 1: inertial mass, and photons definitely don't have any inertial mass.

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Speaker 3: All right, So some particles in the universe seem to

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Speaker 3: have inertial mass, and it's sort of related to isin

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Speaker 3: theories about gravity too, right.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And there's another interesting wrinkle about inertial mass there,

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Speaker 1: which is it doesn't just come from the mass of

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Speaker 1: your particles. Right, So, for example, particles have their own

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Speaker 1: little mass which they get from the Higgs boson. But

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Speaker 1: then you can put them together and use energy to

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Speaker 1: build those bonds, and that energy also contributes to the

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Speaker 1: mass of the object. So, for example, a proton is

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Speaker 1: made of little quarks. Those quarks have really really tiny

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Speaker 1: inertial masses. The proton has a lot of inertial mass

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Speaker 1: because of the energy in it. So the proton, this

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Speaker 1: bound state of all the quarks, has a lot more

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Speaker 1: mass than the things it's made out of. And that's

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Speaker 1: because energy inside an object is sort of what gives

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Speaker 1: it mass, it gives it inertia. So there's all these

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Speaker 1: different ideas here. What is mass, What is inertia for

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Speaker 1: an object? It reflects how much energy is sort of

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Speaker 1: stored inside the object, not just the mass of the

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Speaker 1: objects inside of it.

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Speaker 3: Right, And in our book frequently asked questions about the uners.

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Speaker 3: We tackled this in a whole chapter where basically conclude

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Speaker 3: that there's no such thing as mass, right, like everything

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Speaker 3: is just energy because most of what we call mass

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Speaker 3: in our bodies is actually the energy stored in the

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Speaker 3: between the particles. And also like even the mass of

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Speaker 3: a particle is really just the energy it has with

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Speaker 3: the Higgs field, right, and so it's all just energy,

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Speaker 3: which means there is such a thing mass.

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Speaker 1: It is all just energy, but it does seem to

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Speaker 1: have inertia. And that's true also in other counterintuitive examples,

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Speaker 1: like with photons. Photons have no mass, but if you

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Speaker 1: put a bunch of photons in a box with mirrors inside,

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Speaker 1: for example, so they're bouncing around, then that will have

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Speaker 1: more mass than an empty box. So you can like

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Speaker 1: make a box more massive by shooting a laser into

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Speaker 1: it and capturing those photons because you put energy into it.

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Speaker 1: So it is all just energy, but that energy has

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Speaker 1: this property of inertia.

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Speaker 3: Right It. See kind of seems like maybe the right

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Speaker 3: order of these concepts is that you know, whenever you

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Speaker 3: have energy localize or put together in a particular object

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Speaker 3: or spot or even a box, it's somehow difficult to

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Speaker 3: move that box or object, like you need to apply

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Speaker 3: some kind of force and energy to change its velocity.

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Speaker 3: And then that's the concept of inertia. And then what

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Speaker 3: we call mass is kind of a measure of its inertia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, mass is like a dial that tells you how

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Speaker 1: much stored energy there is inside of it, and there's

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Speaker 1: this relationship between the stored energy inside of it and

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Speaker 1: how hard it is to move that thing. And mass

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Speaker 1: is that multiplicative factor between those two things exactly.

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Speaker 3: Right, which means inertia? Is it kind of like predates

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Speaker 3: mass or is more important or you know, it comes

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Speaker 3: before the concept of mass, So it's pretty pretty important right.

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Speaker 1: Before in what sense, like chronologically or sort of conceptually.

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Speaker 3: I mean like conceptually, like in terms of the way

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Speaker 3: that we think about these ideas the order of concepts,

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Speaker 3: it comes first.

439
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you could definitely think about it that way.

440
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: What we observe is that there are things in the

441
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: universe and those things seem to have inertia. We explain

442
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: that by coming up with this concept of mass for

443
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: these things that it's sort of the origin of their inertia.

444
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,959
Speaker 1: But it's really just more of a description than an

445
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 1: actual explanation. We don't really understand the mechanism by which

446
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: energy resists changes in its inertia. I think that's what

447
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 1: you mean.

448
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 3: Well, I think I mean, like in your light box example,

449
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 3: if I put light inside of a box with mirrors

450
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 3: inside of it. It's going to have inertia, but that

451
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that the light I put into it has mass.

452
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 3: So it's almost like inertia is kind of a more

453
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 3: important or overarching, kind of fundamental concept than mass.

454
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: Well, I think big inertia will be happy to hear

455
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: you say that.

456
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 3: Oh good, I'll wait for the check. All right. Well,

457
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 3: let's get into this idea of inertia, why we don't

458
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 3: understand what it is, and also a new theory that

459
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 3: might have an answer for it. First, let's take a

460
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: quick break.

461
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,760
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529
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 3: All Right, we're talking about inertia, and ironically it's taken

530
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 3: us a while to get to this topic. You might say,

531
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: we have a lot of inertip.

532
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: And there's also some sort of inertia in the field

533
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: about answering these questions at the foundations. Once we have

534
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: a theory that works that we can use to describe

535
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: the universe, a lot of people like to just run

536
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: with it and go off and predict things and build

537
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: ideas on top of it. There isn't always an appetite

538
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: for like digging into the details of like what does

539
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: this mean? It feels to people a little bit like

540
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: doing philosophy, which is why for a long time people

541
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: ignore questions at the heart of like quantum mechanics, you know,

542
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: our particles and is the wave function actually collapsing because

543
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: we have the theory that worked. But I think it's

544
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: really interesting and really important to dig into these details

545
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: and try to understand what is this foundation on which

546
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: we're building all of our theories.

547
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so we define inertia as kind of basically

548
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: the observation that whenever you have an object which is

549
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 3: mostly energy, or whenever you have a lot of energy

550
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 3: in one spot in one kind of thing, it's kind

551
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 3: of hard to make that thing move or to slow

552
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,239
Speaker 3: it down or basically to change its velocity, And so

553
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 3: that observation that's what we call inertia.

554
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we call inertia.

555
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 3: Okay, But I guess the big question is like why

556
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 3: is that? Why is the universe like that? Well, like

557
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 3: why is it hard to change the velocity of things

558
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 3: that have a lot of energy?

559
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: That's a great question, and I think it's important when

560
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: we ask big questions like that to think about what

561
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: kind of answer are we looking for? Are we looking

562
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: for an answer that's like this is the only way

563
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: the universe can be because it's the only way the

564
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: mathematics hangs together, and consider there is no way to

565
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: build another theory of physics that doesn't have this property.

566
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: It's like a necessary consequence of something fundamental to our universe.

567
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: Or another kind of answer would be like, oh, here's

568
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: the mechanism, here's microscopically, what's happening when you try to

569
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: push on that box of photons, like to understand the

570
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: little details of exactly what's happening.

571
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 2: Why.

572
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: This concept of inertia sort of emerges from that, right.

573
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: I think you're talking about the difference between giving up

574
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 3: and throwing your hands up in the air saying just

575
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 3: that's just the way the universe is. And the other option,

576
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 3: which is to dig in deeperence if there's maybe a

577
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: simpler explanation for things like inertia. Right at some point,

578
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: you could just say, hey, that's just the way the

579
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: universe is, because there's no way that the universe firs

580
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: could have been differently. The inertia is just there because

581
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 3: it's there. Or you can might dig in deeper and say,

582
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: oh no, look, actually it's because of this other thing

583
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 3: that we know about the universe.

584
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 6: Right.

585
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: I think it's just a question of which rabbit hole

586
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: you want to go down. If you want to go

587
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: down the path of like finding fundamental principles that force

588
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: the universe to be this way, then you can make

589
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: arguments like the ones we make about conservation and momentum.

590
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: Why does momentum seem to be conserved in our universe?

591
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: We think because of Norther's theorem and various symmetries. That is,

592
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: because space is the same everywhere, And so then you

593
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: can ask, well, why is space the same everywhere? It's

594
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: a fun rabbit hole to go down, but it's sort

595
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: of a different structure of the argument to say that

596
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: it's constrained by certain physical principles, and then you can

597
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: of course ask like, well, why those physical principles, So

598
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: you never really get to an answer, I think, but

599
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: it's just sort of like a different direction to try

600
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: to explore. I don't think either one should be called

601
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: giving up. Giving up is like staying at home in

602
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: your pajamas all.

603
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 3: Day, unless you're doing physics in your pajamas at home.

604
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: Isn't that what you do a lot of the time.

605
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: Too, Yeah, I stay home, I say, in my pajamas,

606
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: I eat Dippin' dots, and I think about the universe.

607
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 3: There you go. See, inertia can be a good thing.

608
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 3: I feel like it gets a bad rap, it does.

609
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: We always talk about inertia as a negative thing, whereas momentum, now,

610
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: that's a good thing usually.

611
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: See I think you're just a shill for Big Inner.

612
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: I think you're being paid on the side by Big

613
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: Inertia to rehab its image in the community, in.

614
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: The physics community. Exactly.

615
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: You're here telling us that it shouldn't be a negative thing.

616
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: You're here telling us that it's more fundamental than mass.

617
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: I mean these are basically big Inertia's talking points.

618
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 3: Well, I think we're all on the thumb of inertia,

619
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: so really I kind of want to make it happy, right,

620
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 3: You don't want inertia to turn against you.

621
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: I see now you're resorting to threats. Huh, Fall in line, everyone,

622
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: or big inertia will get you.

623
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: I didn't say that, you did, Denny. But in terms

624
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: of the question of what is inertia? I guess then,

625
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 3: so which answer are we looking for. Are we looking

626
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: for a way to say that inertia is because the

627
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: universe couldn't have been any other way without inertia? Or

628
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: are we trying to find mechanism for inertia?

629
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: People are going in both directions. There are some folks

630
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: on the sort of philosophical side trying to understand whether

631
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: we can connect it to symmetries of the universe, et cetera.

632
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: But today we're going to dig into this theory of

633
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: quantized inertia, which is trying to describe it from the

634
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: bottom up, explaining the mechanism of it from the quantum scale,

635
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: from the microscopic picture of the universe. What is actually

636
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: out there pushing back against you when you try to

637
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: move that heavy rock.

638
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 3: I see, So maybe like you're trying to find a

639
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: way to say that not that inertia is just is

640
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: it's like the result of this other simple theory that

641
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: we have about the.

642
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: Universe, exactly the way that, for example, we can explain

643
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: the mass of little particles by saying, oh, it's the

644
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: interaction with this field. There's a physical mechanism, the Higgs field,

645
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: that's changing the way particles move as if they have mass. Right,

646
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: that's a nice mechanistic explanation for why these particles seem

647
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 1: to move in this way. Can we find a more general,

648
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: similar sort of description, an explanation for something that's happening

649
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: out there in space that's pushing back on things, that's

650
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: changing how they move in a way that we describe

651
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: as inertia.

652
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: Right, And I guess this gets us to this kind

653
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: of very subtle distinction between the inertia of fundamental particles

654
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 3: and the inertia of objects like you and me. Like

655
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 3: we know that for a small fundamental particles, so their

656
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: inertia comes from the interaction with the Higgs field.

657
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 5: Right.

658
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: What we don't understand is why collections of particles, or

659
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: when you have energy like stored in a spot between particles.

660
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 3: Why that has inertia because that's not interacting with the

661
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: Higgs field.

662
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: So what you're saying, it's a good question. I mean,

663
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: we can describe what happens when an electron is moving

664
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: through the universe and interacting with the Higgs field. Has

665
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: certain mathematical properties of that interaction. We think the electron

666
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: by itself without the Higgs field would have no mass.

667
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: We travel always at the speed of light, for example,

668
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: and we can describe exactly how the interaction of the

669
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: electron with the Higgs field changes its motion just the

670
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: same way as if you sort of like created mass

671
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: for this particle, if you just gave it inherently this inertia.

672
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: We don't have a mechanism for the Higgs boson to

673
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: do that to like a collection of electrons differently than

674
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: it's just its interaction with the individual electrons. Like we

675
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: can describe how the Higgs talks to one electron, but

676
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: now put a thousand electrons together in a and give

677
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: them energy, it has more inertia. We can't explain that

678
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: using the Higgs field. The Higgs field just interacts with

679
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: the individual electrons.

680
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: So then the inertia of a box fuel of electrons

681
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 3: is due to something else. Entirely, you're saying.

682
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: We don't understand the source of that inertia.

683
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: But it sort of acts exactly like the Higgs field

684
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 3: acts on fundamental particles.

685
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: In the sense that they both have inertia. Yes, they

686
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: both have inertia, which we can describe as mass. They

687
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: resist changes in their motion.

688
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: Right, But isn't it suspicious that it's exactly the same. Like,

689
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 3: you know, an electron is just a little bit of energy,

690
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: and it interacts with the Higgs field, and that's how

691
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 3: it gets its inertia. But then when you have a

692
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: whole bunch of energy together from multiple particles, wouldn't you

693
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 3: think that also interacts with the Higgs field.

694
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: You might, But we don't think that the Higgs boson

695
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: has a monopoly on inertia or on mass. We think

696
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: that there are other ways even fundamental particles might get mass.

697
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: For example, dark matter we suspect is a particle. We're

698
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: also fairly certainly it doesn't get its mass from the

699
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: Higgs boson, because Higgs boson only interacts with particles that

700
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: feel the weak force, and we're pretty sure dark matter

701
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: doesn't feel the weak force. Neutrinos even might get their

702
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: mass not from the Higgs boson, but through some other

703
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: mechanism if they are Mayorana particles. Check out our whole

704
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: episode about neutrino masses. So we think that there might

705
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: be multiple ways for even fundamental particles to get mass.

706
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: The Higgs boson is not the only way, and so

707
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: more broadly, we think it might be possible for collections

708
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: of these objects to get mass via other mechanisms. And

709
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: that's exactly what quantized inertia is, is another way to

710
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: give mass to objects.

711
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 3: All right, let's get into this theory of quantized inertia.

712
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: It's a recent theory right by one person.

713
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: It is a fairly recent idea and it's championed by

714
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: one particular physicist in the UK, Mike McCullough. And it

715
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 1: has a sort of nice collection of ideas inspired by

716
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: black holes and event horizons and quantum mechanics, all mixed

717
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: together in sort of clever package.

718
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 3: He's like, listener, everything that we can into this to

719
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 3: give it more inertia or momentum, whichever it sounds better.

720
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: It is a bit of a grab bag, and recently

721
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: he's used this theory quantized inertia, to try to explain

722
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: mysteries like dark matter, and also things like sono luminescence

723
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: and the Pioneer anomaly and free energy and also dark

724
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: energy in the expansion of the universe. So it's sort

725
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: of a very useful toolbox for him.

726
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: Can I come up with cartoon ideas also that would

727
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: be more helpful for me?

728
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: I'm thinking maybe you can also explain who shot JFK.

729
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: I mean, let's just solve all the mysteries while we're

730
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: at it.

731
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 3: Well, technically, inertia that kill JFK. But I guess the

732
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 3: main question here that we're the physicists are trying to

733
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 3: solve is why do collections of energy, like when you

734
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 3: pull energy together, why is it hard to move it

735
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 3: from one place to another? And this theory says that

736
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 3: maybe it's due to quantum effects. That's what it's called

737
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 3: quantized inertia.

738
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: Right exactly. He takes the picture of the universe as

739
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: filled with quantum particles. Right, All space has fields, and

740
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: these fields can't have zero energy, so they're always sort

741
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: of oscillating out there in the universe, and in certain

742
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: situations these fields do weird things like, for example, if

743
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: you have a black hole, you have an event horizon

744
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: beyond which you can't see anything. Stevid Hawking predicted that

745
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: if you have these fields near an event horizon, it

746
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: generates radiation, so it's called Hawking radiation. It's the particular

747
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: combination of having these quantum fields and an event horizon.

748
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: In order for those fields to be sort of self consistent,

749
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: you need the black hole to be generating some radiation.

750
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: You need a propagation of waves through that field outward

751
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: from the event horizon in order for sort of mathematically

752
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: things to add up. So the lesson there is that

753
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: event horizons tend to cause radiation.

754
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 3: Right. That's why they say that a black hole will

755
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: eventually evaporate, right, or black holes are always evaporating. Although

756
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 3: has this been actually observed or is this just a

757
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: theory that black holes have radiation just.

758
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: A theory, definitely never observed. Hawking radiation, if it exists,

759
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: would be extremely faint. For small black holes, it's quite bright,

760
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: but for the black holes we expector out there in

761
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: the universe, it would be very very low intensity, so

762
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: very difficult to observe, especially this far from black hole.

763
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: So we don't know for sure that it exists. But

764
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: in the theory, these quantum waves which fill the universe,

765
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: if they encounter an event horizon, it generates radiation in

766
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: the other direction. And it's this kind of radiation that

767
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: mccallus suspects causes inertia.

768
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: Wait, what do you mean, So if I have a

769
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 3: black hole, it has an event horizon, which is like

770
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 3: the edge of the black hole where stuff can fall

771
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 3: in and will never get out. You see a quantum

772
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 3: wave hits it, or a quantum field interacts with it.

773
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: What's the difference.

774
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: Quantum fields exists all through space. If you're going to

775
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: solve the equations for that field, to get a consistent solution,

776
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 1: you have to figure out what happens to those fields

777
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: at the event horizon. So Hawking's derivation shows that in

778
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: order to satisfy the wave equations of quantum fields, there

779
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: has to be outward radiation.

780
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 3: And so you're saying this is kind of an example

781
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 3: of what's also happening with inertia.

782
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: It's an example of an important principle at the heart

783
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: of quantitised inertia, which is event horizons cause radiation. It's

784
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: not suggesting that black holes cause inertia. Is just an

785
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: example of how event horizons cause radiation. This argument needs

786
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: one more piece, which is how every time we move

787
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: we're basically creating event horizons.

788
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 3: WHOA what do you mean every time we move where

789
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 3: I'm creating like like a black hole.

790
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: Sort of like a black hole. We did an episode

791
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: once about whether or not it's possible to outrun a

792
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: beam of light. Right, You might imagine that if somebody

793
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: shoots a beam of light at you, that there's no

794
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: way you can run fast enough to avoid it. If

795
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: you run away from me and then I turn on

796
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: my flashlight, that eventually that light will catch up to

797
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: you because it's traveling at the speed of lighting. You

798
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: can't travel at the speed of light, so eventually, give

799
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: an infinite time, it will catch you. That's not actually

800
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: true if you run away with constant acceleration. So if

801
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: you move with constant acceleration, it actually creates an event

802
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 1: horizon behind you, a part of the universe which no

803
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: longer can reach you. We did a whole episode about

804
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: this counterintuitive principle, where acceleration itself casts event horizons.

805
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: Right, Although it seems impossible to have constant acceleration forever.

806
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 3: Wouldn't that take an infinite amount of energy.

807
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: It definitely would take an infinite amount of energy. Practically,

808
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: it's not something I know how you could achieve or

809
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: I would recommend. But in principle, mathematically, if you are

810
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: undergoing constant acceleration, then you are cutting yourself off from

811
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: part of the universe. It's part of the universe whose

812
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: messages will never reach you. Those light beams will get

813
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: closer and closer to you every year, but never actually

814
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: touch your back.

815
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: Basically, you're leaving the rest of the universe that's behind

816
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 3: you in the dust. Kind of what you're saying right like,

817
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 3: if I move with constant acceleration in one direction, I'll

818
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 3: never kind of see the stuff behind me, maybe forever.

819
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: But then, how does this related to intertia?

820
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: Now, to take these two ideas, one is event horizons

821
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: cause radiation. The second is acceleration causes event horizons. Put

822
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: them together and you get acceleration causes event horizons, which

823
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: cause radiation. So now every time you accelerate, you're creating

824
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: an event horizon behind you. That's sort of I'm alert

825
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: to the edge of a black hole which is going

826
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: to create radiation for the same reason you get hawking radiation.

827
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: So every time you accelerate, you're creating this event horizon

828
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: behind you, which is going to generate a kind of

829
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: radiation behind you and basically bathe you in radiation from

830
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: the universe. Because this radiation is not the same in

831
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: all directions, because the event horizon is behind you and

832
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 1: not ahead of you, it can change the way you move.

833
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: And that's the core principle of quantized inertia, that the

834
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: way you move is changed by this quantum radiation caused

835
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: by the event horizons created as you accelerate.

836
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 3: That's a long sentence there. I guess I'm still stuck

837
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: in this idea that every time I move. You're saying,

838
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 3: every time I move or accelerate even my hand, I'm

839
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 3: creating an event horizon. But earlier you said I need

840
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: an infinite amount of acceleration to generate that event horizon.

841
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 3: What are you trying to say that even a little

842
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 3: bit of acceleration causes an event horizon right behind it

843
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 3: really far away? Or how does it work.

844
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: In order to outrun the beam of light, you would

845
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: need to accelerate forever. You need to create that event

846
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: horizon and never let it dissipate. So you'd need to

847
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: accelerate forever, and that would require infinite energy, not necessarily

848
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: infinite acceleration, but you'd have to be accelerating till the

849
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: end of time to avoid that beam of light. But

850
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: every time you accelerate, you do create an event horizon.

851
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 1: That event horizon collapses when you stop accelerating, because now

852
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: those parts of the universe can reach you. So you

853
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: create an event horizon temporarily when you accelerate. It collapses

854
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: when you stop accelerating. If you want to maintain it,

855
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: you'd need to keep going forever.

856
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: Where does that event horizon get formed? Not right behind me? Right?

857
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 3: Probably super far away, isn't.

858
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: It depends on how fast you're going and how much

859
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 1: you accelerate. The faster you're going, the closer that event

860
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: horizon is to you.

861
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: Okay, So then if I move my hand. Let's say

862
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 3: I'm waving my hands here in front of me, where

863
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: is the event horizon for me?

864
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 1: Well, you're moving a fairly slow velocity, I'm assuming, and

865
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: so that event horizon would be like light years away.

866
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 3: Okay, So you're saying, like, if I move my hand forward,

867
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 3: it's someone during that brief time that I'm moving my hand,

868
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 3: someone in Alpha Centauri shooting a laser on me. Technically

869
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 3: that in theory, like if you do the math, that

870
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 3: laser won't reach my hand.

871
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: And if you kept accelerating your hand, that laser would

872
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: never hit your hand. Since you probably stopped accelerating your hand,

873
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: that event horizon collapses and it will eventually fry you.

874
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, So now I created a little event horizon

875
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 3: with respect to my hand. Is event horizon is light

876
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 3: years away in alpha centauri.

877
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: M hmm.

878
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 3: How is this related to inertip.

879
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 1: Because event horizons create radiation. So when you did that,

880
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: you generated a kind of radiation from the quantum fields

881
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 1: of the universe. This is called unrue radiation, named after

882
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: a physicist whose last name is Unrue u n r Uh.

883
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: And so this radiation generated by this event horizon, Mike

884
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: McCollough thinks is the source of inertia because it basically

885
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: is pushing against you.

886
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 3: I feel like you're saying that me moving my hand

887
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 3: is creating particles in alpha Centauri. Is that what you're saying?

888
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: It's creating radiation from the event horizon that may be

889
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: very very far away.

890
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 3: Yes, so, and it's instantly community, Like the movement of

891
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 3: my hand is instantly communicating to Alpha Centauri to make

892
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 3: particles out of nothing.

893
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: It's not making particles out of nothing. The event horizon

894
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: that you created in Alpha Centauri triggers radiation in the

895
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: rest of the universe's quantum fields. So unrude radiation, which

896
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: is a whole interesting thing that people actually believe exists,

897
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: suggests that anybody who's accelerating will feel this quantum radiation

898
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,280
Speaker 1: from the universe, And Mike McCullough suggests that quantum radiation

899
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: is responsible for inertia.

900
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 10: Right.

901
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 3: I guess it's a little hard to I guess process

902
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 3: this because I feel like you're saying that the rest

903
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 3: of the universe somehow cares if I move my hand forward.

904
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: We are all tied together by these quantum fields.

905
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 3: But it's light years away. But I'm feeling the inertia

906
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 3: of my hand right now.

907
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely doesn't take millions of years for you

908
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: to feel that inertia. I think that's because the event

909
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: horizon that's created as you accelerate isn't immediately formed really

910
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 1: far away from you, sort of like sweeping away from

911
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: you as you accelerate, because even in Alpha Centauri, they

912
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: don't know that you've moved your hand. So that event

913
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: horizon is sort of like being created as the information propagated,

914
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: it's out to Alpha Centauri, and as it's doing so,

915
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 1: it can also generate this quantum radiation that's pushing back

916
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: at you.

917
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 3: All Right, I'm feeling a lot of inertia in my

918
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 3: head right now. I'm sure a lot of people are.

919
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 3: So let's dig into this a little bit more and

920
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 3: figure out how this crazy quantum radiation gives us inertia

921
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 3: and also how true this theory is. But first, let's

922
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 3: take another quick break.

923
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,680
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924
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925
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926
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971
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972
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973
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974
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979
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981
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985
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988
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 12: listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you

989
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 12: listen to podcasts.

990
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 3: All right, we're talking about quantized inertia, which is not

991
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: like inertia chopped up with dilttlebits. It's more like the

992
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 3: idea that inertia is caused by quantum effects.

993
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the picture of quantized inertia is

994
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: that accelerating things in the universe generate this radiation from

995
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: the background quantum fields that change the way they move.

996
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: It's sort of similar to the way an electron gets

997
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: mass from the Higgs field. Right as electron moves to

998
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: the Higgs field, it's interacting with that field, and that

999
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: interaction changes the way it moves. So here the picture

1000
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: is you're moving through the universe and your acceleration is

1001
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: now creating these virtual particles, which you can think of

1002
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: as interacting with the background to quantum fields of the

1003
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: universe in such a way to change your motion and

1004
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: effectively give you innertia.

1005
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: Right, And you said, it's because when I move my hand,

1006
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,240
Speaker 3: I'm creating an event horizon of a point that things

1007
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 3: that move at the speed of light can't reach my hand.

1008
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 3: And somehow that creates particles out of thin air, which,

1009
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 3: in creating these particles, I guess, takes energy, which then

1010
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,959
Speaker 3: means that I need energy to move my hand.

1011
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: Yes, somehow they all work together so that when you're

1012
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: trying to accelerate, you're basically running into this quantum wind

1013
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: of virtual particles pushing you back. So, according to this theory,

1014
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: The reason it's hard to get a blob of energy

1015
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: going is that when you push on it, the universe

1016
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: sort of pushes back with all the virtual particles.

1017
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 3: But it pushes you back, or it pulls you back.

1018
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: I feel like it it pulls you back because you're

1019
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 3: creating an event horizon behind you.

1020
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 6: Right.

1021
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: Remember that quantum interactions, especially with the virtual particles, can

1022
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: also pass negative momentum, So it's a little bit counterintuitive

1023
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: whether to think about that as a push or a

1024
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: pull like with quantum particles. I can throw you a

1025
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 1: ball that has negative momentum, which is sort of like

1026
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: pulling on you even though I've thrown something to you.

1027
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:26,919
Speaker 3: Right, It pushes your back, which I think most people

1028
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 3: will say is pulls you.

1029
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: Back, all right. Cool. So it's an interesting combination of ideas.

1030
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 1: This idea of unrude radiation is real idea that's taken

1031
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: very seriously quantized inertia. I sort of co opted it

1032
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: to try to use it to explain inertia. One big

1033
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 1: problem with it, though, is that people don't expect unrude radiation,

1034
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: the sort of way that virtual particles will hit you

1035
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 1: when you accelerate, to be something we could ever actually

1036
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 1: measure it's predicted to be like super duper duper tiny.

1037
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 3: What does that mean? Is in inertia pretty significant? Like

1038
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 3: if you have a big block of lead or iron,

1039
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 3: it feels a lot inertia, So unrude radiation should be

1040
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 3: pretty significant.

1041
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: You're exactly right. And that's a big problem for quantized

1042
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: inertia because if you calculate the unrue radiation you get

1043
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: for reasonable accelerations, it just isn't enough to explain the

1044
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: effects we see from inertia. So, for example, if you

1045
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: accelerate an object that one meters per second squared, and

1046
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 1: you calculate how much is unrude radiation heating that object

1047
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: up or pushing back on, how much energy is bathing

1048
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: that object from unrue radiation it's usually measured is how

1049
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: much you would heat that object up. You get like

1050
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: ten to the minus twenty one degrees Calvin, So one

1051
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: meters per second squared acceleration, which is pretty typical normal

1052
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: kind of thing to feel on Earth, is basically imperceptible

1053
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: amounts of radiation you would get from the quantum fields.

1054
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: So it doesn't seem like enough to explain actual inertia.

1055
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 3: You mean, like if you apply the theory of unruradiation,

1056
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 3: it wouldn't be enough to count for inertia. Also, like

1057
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 3: if you're creating a bunch of particles in your wake

1058
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 3: every time you move, wouldn't you like see these particles.

1059
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: People have looked for un radiation, but nobody's ever seen

1060
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 1: it because it's so tiny. It's sort of like looking

1061
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: for hawking radiation. We think maybe it's there, but nobody's

1062
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: ever seen it because it's so faint, it's so difficult

1063
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: to detect.

1064
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 3: Also, it would technically be really far away, right, Like

1065
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,479
Speaker 3: when I move my arm, you said that the event

1066
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 3: horizon that forms is like light years away. Wouldn't that

1067
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 3: be there were the particles form.

1068
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,399
Speaker 1: It's difficult to pin these things down because we're talking

1069
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 1: about quantum waves, which aren't necessarily always very well localized, right,

1070
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 1: And as we said before, the event horizon is probably

1071
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: created as an outgoing wave in these quantum fields. So

1072
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: I think it's tricky to think about the sort of

1073
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: special relativity of the motion of these quantum fields.

1074
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 3: But I guess where is this theory now? Does it

1075
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 3: work out mathematically or is it still kind of a stretch.

1076
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: It's not taken very seriously in mainstream physics. People don't

1077
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: think that mechanistically it works. I've read a paper analyzing

1078
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: and carefully. They found a bunch of flaws in the

1079
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: derivation of quantized inertia.

1080
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 3: Ooh, just kill it if there are flaws mathematically.

1081
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 1: I think that's one reason why it's not taken very

1082
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: seriously in mainstream physics, but has gotten a lot of press.

1083
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: And one reason is that it's been used to try

1084
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: to explain some other big mysteries in the universe. So like,

1085
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: maybe it explains inertia, maybe not. But the proponent of

1086
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: quantised inertia has also suggested that maybe it can explain

1087
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: dark matter, and maybe it can explain how to build

1088
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 1: warp drives, and maybe it can explain the Pioneer anomaly,

1089
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 1: and maybe it can explain dark energy. Sort of sort

1090
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: of taking this tool and try to apply it to

1091
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: all the big mysteries of the day, which makes it

1092
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: easier to get like clickbait articles.

1093
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 3: Wait, too, how would it explain things like dark matter

1094
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,720
Speaker 3: just because it would give dark matter inertia or mass

1095
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 3: with that can't be explained any other way.

1096
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: So it can explain dark matter by changing how much

1097
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: inertial mass we think stars might have. Remember that one

1098
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 1: of the origins of the whole idea of dark matter

1099
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: was that galaxies are spinning, and they're spinning way too

1100
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: fast for the gravity of those galaxies to hold them together.

1101
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: And in order to do that calculation, you have to

1102
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: assume you understand how stars move, you understand their inertia

1103
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: and the force of gravity on those stars. Quantitized inertia says, well,

1104
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: maybe we've been miscalculating the inertia of these stars, right,

1105
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,919
Speaker 1: that maybe for things that are not accelerated very much,

1106
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: they have less inertia. So he proposes a different relationship

1107
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: between inertia and acceleration. He says that really small accelerations,

1108
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:32,399
Speaker 1: maybe things have less inertia. And so the picture then

1109
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: is that maybe the stars at the edge of the galaxy,

1110
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 1: you don't need as much gravity to hold onto them

1111
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: because they actually have less inertia than we thought they did.

1112
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: So you solve the problem not by saying, oh, there's

1113
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: more matter, which provides more gravity, but by saying you

1114
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: don't need as much gravity because those stars can be

1115
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 1: held in without as strong a force because they have

1116
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: less inertia than you thought.

1117
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 3: So this quantitized inertia isn't explaining dark matter. It's just

1118
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 3: it's actually saying it doesn't exist. It's saying that there

1119
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 3: is dark matter. What we're seeing is really just that

1120
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: inertia doesn't scale the way we think it does exactly.

1121
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: It's more similar to mind the idea that gravity changes

1122
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: over very very large distances. You're right, it doesn't explain

1123
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: dark matter. It explains the mysteries that originated the ideas

1124
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: of dark matter, but without dark matter. So it's an

1125
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: alternative to dark matter, and some people actually like it

1126
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: better than Mond. Mond members a theory that gravity works

1127
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: differently at different distances, but Mond has a sort of

1128
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: arbitrary parameter in it says like below some acceleration, gravity

1129
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: works differently than above some acceleration. People don't like when

1130
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,439
Speaker 1: it's like an arbitrary number and a theory like why

1131
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: that number or why not something else? And so people

1132
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: have argued that quantized inertia has a more elegant explanation

1133
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 1: for this because it doesn't have this arbitrary parameter in it.

1134
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: But then again, also it doesn't really work.

1135
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 3: So yeah, so, and is it well known that this

1136
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 3: theory doesn't work mathematically or is it just like a

1137
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 3: set back, like, oh, you have this error, but you

1138
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 3: know eventually they might be able to fix that error.

1139
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 3: Like why are we still talking about this if the

1140
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: math doesn't work.

1141
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: We're talking about every two reasons. One is that a

1142
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: bunch of listeners wrote in and saying, hey, what is

1143
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 1: this theory of quantized inners? I keep hearing about it

1144
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: because the main proponent of it has been successful in

1145
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: like giving TED talks and writing public articles and getting

1146
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: attention for it. So it's an idea that's out there

1147
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: in the community about like explaining this deep mystery of inertia.

1148
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,320
Speaker 1: I don't think that it works. I think most mainstream

1149
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: physicists think it has big problems with it. That doesn't

1150
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: mean it's wrong. It doesn't mean that those problems might

1151
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 1: not be solvable at some point in the future. But

1152
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: as it stands today, it's sort of like a vague

1153
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: idea that doesn't really hang together to actually explain anything

1154
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: I see.

1155
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 3: So, like the specific ideation or instance of it right

1156
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,879
Speaker 3: now doesn't seem to quite work. But it's still an

1157
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 3: interesting idea to think that maybe what we think is

1158
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 3: stuff like dark matter, or maybe the way we can

1159
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 3: explain things like inertia is, you know, matter and energy's

1160
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 3: interaction with the quantized fields and the creation of these

1161
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 3: event horizons. That's the idea that maybe is still sticking around.

1162
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's important to remember that we can't solve

1163
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: these problems all at once. He's taking on a really

1164
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: big problem like what is inertia, and you don't expect

1165
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: somebody to come up with the complete explanation in their

1166
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: basement all by themselves. The way the process works is

1167
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: somebody has an idea which sort of takes you in

1168
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: a certain direction, and maybe it doesn't work, and five

1169
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: years later, somebody comes up with another idea that maybe

1170
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: solves a problem and makes it work or brings you closer.

1171
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: So it's sort of this iterative search. It's not like

1172
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: evolution where the theory has to work at every stage

1173
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: to survive. We can keep a theory around even if

1174
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,439
Speaker 1: it's not quite working yet because it might potentially come

1175
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: together later.

1176
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 3: All right, well, it sounds like an interesting idea that

1177
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 3: might solve a pretty fundamental question about our universe. Why

1178
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:55,919
Speaker 3: do things have inertia? Because without inertia the universe would

1179
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 3: be totally different, Right, Without inertia, things would be pretty chaotic.

1180
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: Our entire experience of the universe would be very different

1181
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: without inertia. Inertia is a basic property of matter and motion,

1182
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: and yet it's something we still don't really understand. So

1183
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: I love when people take on these deep questions and

1184
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: think out of the box and try to combine ideas

1185
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: they've heard in ways that might explain them. Doesn't mean

1186
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: that their first idea will be right, but it's definitely

1187
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that's worth pursuing.

1188
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 3: Right right, I think what you just said is that

1189
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 3: inertia is a good thing. Right.

1190
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: Am I getting some of that sweet big inertial money?

1191
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 3: So yes, I'm getting the money to turn you. Oh

1192
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 3: all right, Yes you don't get a cut, all.

1193
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 1: Right, put me on your list of converts on pro inertia.

1194
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,439
Speaker 3: All right. Well, hopefully these ideas fit inside your head

1195
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 3: and maybe nuts them with a little bit of inertia,

1196
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 3: a little bit of momentum to think differently about the

1197
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 3: world around you, and about how interesting things that we

1198
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 3: maybe never thought about could explain why things are the

1199
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 3: way they are.

1200
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: And to those young scientists out there, be encouraged because

1201
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: there are still deep and basic questions about the universe.

1202
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: We do not know the answer to. Somebody out there

1203
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: and will figure these things out.

1204
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 3: It might be you, even those of you sitting in

1205
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 3: your pajamas at Hope Well. We hope you enjoyed that.

1206
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, See you next time.

1207
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that. Daniel and Jorge Explain

1208
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1209
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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1235
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