Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with
Speaker 1: me Tommy di Dario today's episode. It is a special
Speaker 1: one because my guest is full of so much love
Speaker 1: and positivity and wisdom, and she just makes you feel
Speaker 1: like you're wrapped up in a comforting blanket every single
Speaker 1: time you listen to her talk. Katerina Scorzonee, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: said that in the Italian way scorsone. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love that name. She joins the show today. She's
Speaker 1: an incredible actress best known for her work on the
Speaker 1: groundbreaking ABC series Grey's Anatomy. Now she stars in the series,
Speaker 1: which is, by the way, about to hit season twenty
Speaker 1: on March fourteenth, and she plays Amelia Shepherd and has
Speaker 1: played this role for about fourteen years now. Oh and
Speaker 1: it's also the longest running queer character on television. I
Speaker 1: love that so much. Yes, for representation. Now, when people
Speaker 1: think of Grey's Anatomy, they think of Katerina. She is
Speaker 1: such a beautiful artist that means so much to so
Speaker 1: many people in the world. We reflect on her journey
Speaker 1: Gray's Anatomy. Of course, we talk about that queer love
Speaker 1: story with Kai that so many people have been deeply
Speaker 1: invested in we show the spinoff series Station nineteen Some Love,
Speaker 1: and Katerina gets really, really well real about the person
Speaker 1: she is behind the character she is so well known
Speaker 1: for playing. So let's see if today we can get
Speaker 1: Katina to say something that she has never said before.
Speaker 1: Kat Arena, it is so good to see you.
Speaker 2: It's great to see you.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I feel like whenever we talk, and
Speaker 1: it's been one other time on my Instagram live Pandemic show,
Speaker 1: but I remember thinking I never want this conversation to end.
Speaker 1: So my biggest challenge will be trying to not take
Speaker 1: eighteen hours of your day and make this a concise,
Speaker 1: fun conversation because we could talk for.
Speaker 2: Hours, like meander it. It was all over the place, but
Speaker 2: it was one of my favorites. I had a really
Speaker 2: fun time during that interview. I will still like grab
Speaker 2: clips of it and like them in other things and
Speaker 2: send them or like there'll be We talked about so
Speaker 2: many things that I think there are a lot of
Speaker 2: like theme months that it'll be part of a compilation
Speaker 2: of that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Well Part two, Here we go, you ready, yeah, here
Speaker 1: we go? All right? Well, first of all, March fourteenth,
Speaker 1: it's coming up. It's right around the corner.
Speaker 2: Season twenty.
Speaker 1: Even hearing that, I'm like, season twenty, how how I know?
Speaker 2: I know?
Speaker 1: Are you so excited?
Speaker 2: What would you be? You'd be like a sophomore if
Speaker 2: you were born when grade started.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd be a sophomore in college. That's incredible, that's incredible.
Speaker 1: Are you so excited for this new season?
Speaker 2: I actually really am. I think part of it is
Speaker 2: that it was like against all odds, Like we had
Speaker 2: the pandemic and then we had the strike, and you know,
Speaker 2: there were so many cataclysms that were making it like impossible,
Speaker 2: and here we are and we have a shorter season
Speaker 2: because of the strike. So usually we do like twenty
Speaker 2: four episodes, and then we did some shorter ones during COVID.
Speaker 2: But this is ten and so this is like super
Speaker 2: action packed. We have to like get everything exciting from
Speaker 2: twenty episodes and pack them into ten, and so it's
Speaker 2: going to be a good one.
Speaker 1: And you've been playing the character of Amelia for what
Speaker 1: thirteen fourteen years in total?
Speaker 2: Now like fourteen years?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is wild. So what still keeps it exciting
Speaker 1: for you? Like, well, what's the most fun part about
Speaker 1: playing this character still after all those years, I.
Speaker 2: Think that they become real, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like they're they're a fourteen year old at this point,
Speaker 2: and so I don't think I mean, I think a
Speaker 2: way to firm it that would not work for a
Speaker 2: career and a job like this is that like, oh
Speaker 2: now I know what it is. But if you kind
Speaker 2: of keep it like having a relationship with a real
Speaker 2: human being, you're not like, well, they're fourteen, so no
Speaker 2: longer interested. You're like, wow, they're fourteen. Look at all
Speaker 2: they've learned, and look at how they've grown, and what's
Speaker 2: going to happen next and will they be happy? So
Speaker 2: it's a very similar relationship. I think that the audience
Speaker 2: has to the character.
Speaker 1: So you still very much feel attached to Amelia.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, good lord, I'm rooting for her.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are rooting for her a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I need you feel that. I mean, I think again,
Speaker 2: you as you kind of go out in the streets now,
Speaker 2: which we weren't able to do for a while, there's
Speaker 2: these real potent relationships with the people who are watching
Speaker 2: the show and who have attached to the characters, and
Speaker 2: you meet them and there is like this wild kind
Speaker 2: of cosmic familiarity where they truly have like through Amelia,
Speaker 2: they like through your avatar, they've seen into themselves. And
Speaker 2: so you share these like really intimate moments with perfect strangers,
Speaker 2: and I think it really kind of reminds us that
Speaker 2: we're all like this intimate family ultimately, once you kind
Speaker 2: of line up the context and understand each other in
Speaker 2: that way, like there is this deep familiarity that we
Speaker 2: all have because we're human beings.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Has there been a really impactful or extra
Speaker 1: meaningful moment for you that stands out playing her over
Speaker 1: all those.
Speaker 2: Years you mean, like in the narrative in her story
Speaker 2: or like out in the world.
Speaker 1: I guess both.
Speaker 2: I mean there's so many. I think that one of
Speaker 2: the things, you know, we kind of laugh about Shondalane
Speaker 2: and how it's like such a rollercoaster and all of
Speaker 2: the characters have been put through a meat grinder multiple
Speaker 2: times and live or don't. But I think really the
Speaker 2: big thing is, like, I mean, she's been through so
Speaker 2: many things, so many losses, and so many massive tragedies,
Speaker 2: and then so many reassemblages of herself that really it's
Speaker 2: just the resilience of her spirit, and I think that's
Speaker 2: what keeps it so vital now, like the resilience of Amelia,
Speaker 2: just like going to work and being a doctor and
Speaker 2: being excellent in her field and being fascinated with this,
Speaker 2: like love affair with medicine and science, the resilience of
Speaker 2: her soul after having gone through all of this is
Speaker 2: so potent and incredible that in each moment, I feel
Speaker 2: like it's kind of the moment.
Speaker 1: She has a lot of qualities and characteristics that mean
Speaker 1: so much to so many people across the board for
Speaker 1: many different reasons, one of them being, of course, the
Speaker 1: storyline with you and Kai and the queer community feels
Speaker 1: so incredibly seen and validated and represented on a primetime show,
Speaker 1: which I always say, you know, with streaming, yes, you
Speaker 1: see it more and more and more, but I would argue,
Speaker 1: you don't really see things like that on primetime as
Speaker 1: much as we should in this day and age. And
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, that relationship was something that people really
Speaker 1: latched onto. Of course, Kai was the first non binary character,
Speaker 1: one of the first on television that I've seen. What
Speaker 1: did that relationship mean to you? To get to explore?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think you're right. I think it
Speaker 2: was incredible, especially on primetime, and I think a lot
Speaker 2: of our audience, you know, I think right now politically,
Speaker 2: gender is being politicized so violently right now, and like
Speaker 2: really leaning into like gender apartheid, where it's like this
Speaker 2: or it's this, and so having a non binary character
Speaker 2: and getting familiar with the vocabulary around gender I think
Speaker 2: was something that for the Grey's audience. Obviously we have
Speaker 2: like a big cohort who had been exposed to that
Speaker 2: language and those ideas, and then there was a lot
Speaker 2: who happened and so having it approached in such a organic, romantic,
Speaker 2: sexy the plot not being about that way, I think
Speaker 2: was huge for the community and for all of us
Speaker 2: like to really start to question, like, well, what the
Speaker 2: heck are we talking about? And so I think that
Speaker 2: that storyline was massive and magical, and er fight Master
Speaker 2: brought it to life in such an incredible way, and
Speaker 2: so I just feel like super honored that I got
Speaker 2: to be a part of that conversation and the and
Speaker 2: the community that's like embraced that storyline is so important,
Speaker 2: especially right now, like you know, with what has recently
Speaker 2: happened to next and like all of the kind of
Speaker 2: political jockeying that's taking place. I think that being like bold, sexy, confident, funny,
Speaker 2: romantic representation in this moment is so so so important
Speaker 2: for morale and everyone's mental health. And so anyway, I
Speaker 2: just am like thrilled that I get to be a
Speaker 2: part of that.
Speaker 1: And the breakup crushed people. It crushed the fandom. They
Speaker 1: can't believe it. It's something I've seen on like Twitter
Speaker 1: and people are like, oh my god, is there a
Speaker 1: chance for them to reconcile? I mean, what do you
Speaker 1: think might they get back together?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think again, like we saw Derek again,
Speaker 2: Like anything can happen in shondaland anything can happen right now.
Speaker 2: You know. Ear fight Master is right now doing a
Speaker 2: bunch of other things. They've got like a musical project,
Speaker 2: and they're working with Netflix, and there's like a bunch
Speaker 2: of things going on for them, you know, professionally in
Speaker 2: other ways, and so I don't think they're available, but
Speaker 2: at some point, who knows, who knows. I'd always be
Speaker 2: open to it.
Speaker 1: And it's so fun to see you talking about Er
Speaker 1: because it's evident that you both grew very close and
Speaker 1: have a genuine, true friendship. I imagine seeing Er exit
Speaker 1: the show was not ideal, right, It was probably a
Speaker 1: little tough.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think for everybody, they really kind of
Speaker 2: like stepped onto set and it was like hilarious magic,
Speaker 2: and so I think everybody was like sad to see
Speaker 2: them go. But also that's kind of how our show operates.
Speaker 2: And I think they kind of did what they needed
Speaker 2: to do in terms of they're so massively articulate about
Speaker 2: the mission right now and helping people to understand and
Speaker 2: reframe in their minds what gender fluidity is and how
Speaker 2: beautiful and fun and magic and creative queerness is.
Speaker 1: That.
Speaker 2: I think a platform like Gray's Anatomy served to like
Speaker 2: really open the eyes of a lot of people, and
Speaker 2: they got to have some really important conversations, and they
Speaker 2: brought together tons of people who never would have maybe
Speaker 2: connected with even parts of themselves, let alone community, you
Speaker 2: know of friends and within the community. And then they
Speaker 2: got to go out and do other things to like
Speaker 2: further that mission. And so yeah, I mean, I just
Speaker 2: think it was like a wonderful experience, you.
Speaker 1: Know what, Yes to all of that, and yes to
Speaker 1: you being a I'm going to say a queer icon.
Speaker 1: I mean you are like the queer community. Literally, you're
Speaker 1: an icon like Madonna is, like I don't know, got
Speaker 1: gay is? I mean you were somebody who now is
Speaker 1: is so meaningful to that community because you have much
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 2: I think that every queer person is an icon. I
Speaker 2: really think that the ability to psychologically deconstruct the like
Speaker 2: force of how to normative patriarchy as a person, as
Speaker 2: a young person who then like courageously unfolds and finds
Speaker 2: community despite all odds and despite kind of the violence
Speaker 2: that is like all around. I think that anyone who
Speaker 2: has the mental flexibility and courage and grace to explore
Speaker 2: themselves and then be that kind of creative miracle in
Speaker 2: the world walking around is an icon. And so yay.
Speaker 1: When you got the script on day one of playing
Speaker 1: this role, did you know that her storyline was going
Speaker 1: to go towards, you know, exploring her queerness or was
Speaker 1: that a surprise for you? Is that something that just
Speaker 1: kind of came up.
Speaker 2: Mameily was originally written as a queer character, and so
Speaker 2: the very first episode that she appeared in on Private Practice,
Speaker 2: she was in a relationship with her like fellow, the
Speaker 2: doctor that she was, and then and somehow just in
Speaker 2: the like edit, we had too many minutes and that
Speaker 2: story kind of went away, and then the whole story
Speaker 2: went in other directions. But she was originally conceived of
Speaker 2: as a your character, and so I think that that
Speaker 2: was always there, and so then when it came about
Speaker 2: I mean, we had the conversation before we'd actually talked
Speaker 2: in the season, before Amelia had Scout, we'd talked about
Speaker 2: Karna and Amelia being together and we kind of made
Speaker 2: reference to it. I think Owen and Karina ended up
Speaker 2: hooking up at one point and Amelia walks in and
Speaker 2: was like, I was jealous of Owen. There have been
Speaker 2: little sprinkles throughout that it could go in this direction,
Speaker 2: but then it didn't happen until now, and thank god.
Speaker 2: I mean, this was first of all, you know may
Speaker 2: I mean, that had to happen. That was like an
Speaker 2: epic relationship.
Speaker 1: And then you're a fan of that relationship, you're pro them.
Speaker 1: Nineteen is We're going to talk about that in a minute,
Speaker 1: because I know there's some crossover and people love that
Speaker 1: relationship too, But that relationship and the relationships you've been
Speaker 1: in really are two super meaningful ones, which is so
Speaker 1: it's so cool to see when art affects people in
Speaker 1: such a positive way like that. I always think that's
Speaker 1: just so damn beautiful. But aside from that storyline, I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people relate to your character because
Speaker 1: of the struggle with addiction, and that's so hard and
Speaker 1: real for so many people. There's people in my life
Speaker 1: who have dealt with that. So what for you has
Speaker 1: been the most difficult thing to tap into with that storyline?
Speaker 2: I think I always want to make sure that we're
Speaker 2: understanding the depth of the psychology behind addiction. And it
Speaker 2: can be kind of looked at through so many lenses,
Speaker 2: and there's the kind of like, oh, it's an allergy,
Speaker 2: and there's like all of these different ways to conceive
Speaker 2: of addiction. But I think whether it came first or
Speaker 2: whether it happens later, trauma is always a component, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Whether trauma kind of led to
Speaker 2: life choices that head into addiction because of isolation, or
Speaker 2: whether through the course of battling the addiction there are
Speaker 2: scenarios that arise that become traumatizing. It's usually like a
Speaker 2: big piece of recovery is like kind of unpacking where
Speaker 2: the trauma lies and where the where this psychological loneliness
Speaker 2: or isolation is that the substance of choice, whether it's
Speaker 2: drugs or alcohol or shopping or toxic relationships or whatever,
Speaker 2: the addiction is what attachment need that's serving and kind
Speaker 2: of filling. And so wanted to always approach the storyline
Speaker 2: not just as like she can't stay away from drugs,
Speaker 2: but like she's this really multifaceted human who unfolded in time.
Speaker 2: And I mean when she's five, her dad was literally
Speaker 2: shot in the head in front of her, Like that's
Speaker 2: not okay, you know what I mean? And then she
Speaker 2: didn't have a dad, and she had four other siblings
Speaker 2: and mom was depressed, and you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like there was so much that was leading to this
Speaker 2: like deeply, deeply lonely state that she was kind of
Speaker 2: mentally developing in and looking for relief from. And so
Speaker 2: I always in playing that storyline when I make it
Speaker 2: more complicated and deep than just she can't stop taking
Speaker 2: that substance. Why can't she try harder?
Speaker 1: You know, well you do that. You bring so much
Speaker 1: compassion to that part of her life. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why so many people are so just in love
Speaker 1: with how you've portrayed Amelia, and I imagine that's probably
Speaker 1: one of the more rewarding parts of your job and
Speaker 1: playing her is when you hear people say, oh my God,
Speaker 1: like thank you for shutting a light on what it
Speaker 1: really is like to battle addiction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you kind of want to make people, not make people.
Speaker 2: You want to invite people to. I think sometimes, especially
Speaker 2: with hard stuff like addiction or parts of themselves that
Speaker 2: they're not comfortable encountering. Sometimes by creating this like lovable,
Speaker 2: flawed character, people have the opportunity to kind of in
Speaker 2: a safe container i e. Like our episode or our
Speaker 2: storyline or through this character, they get to touch parts
Speaker 2: of themselves that they are uncomfortable with or haven't forgiven
Speaker 2: or haven't healed, or they need some sort of resolution
Speaker 2: and they can't get it in their own life, and
Speaker 2: so we offer an opportunity to kind of like safely
Speaker 2: touch into those really hard feelings and then maybe who knows,
Speaker 2: but maybe they'll kind of have the courage then or
Speaker 2: the self acceptance to like make a move in their
Speaker 2: own actual situation or not, or they've gotten what they needed.
Speaker 1: You know, how have you become so in touch with
Speaker 1: who you are and with life and with people and
Speaker 1: with standing on the right side of things, because you're
Speaker 1: somebody who just emits this like radiant, positive, beautiful, flowing energy.
Speaker 1: And it's very interesting that when I meet someone like that,
Speaker 1: and it's often there's always oh, I don't want to
Speaker 1: come out the wrong way. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people want to be that, and they try to be
Speaker 1: that and they act like that, but it's not who
Speaker 1: they are to their core. But you're all that.
Speaker 2: First of all, thank you. I feel like I'm blushing
Speaker 2: and I don't know what to say, so I'm going
Speaker 2: to try. First of all, from a very young age,
Speaker 2: I started meditating and so like my spiritual life is
Speaker 2: like a big part of my life, and I think
Speaker 2: through that it was able to burn away a lot
Speaker 2: of the part that wants me to look at myself.
Speaker 2: And so when someone says something like that, I'm very
Speaker 2: aware that the light that you're perceiving is not mine,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like it's I think I've
Speaker 2: I've tried to get out of the way as much
Speaker 2: as I can, and not every day am I out
Speaker 2: of the way, let me tell you, But when I
Speaker 2: am when if someone's having that experience with me, somehow
Speaker 2: my daze has gone away from looking at the meanness
Speaker 2: of it, and I'm just kind of getting out of
Speaker 2: the way. And you're having an experience actually of your
Speaker 2: own light that I haven't like distracted you from by
Speaker 2: making you look at me. There's something bigger that we're
Speaker 2: both a part of, and you're just tapping into it
Speaker 2: because I didn't distract you from it in that moment.
Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting perspective. Yeah, No, I totally
Speaker 1: get what you're saying.
Speaker 2: And you can't recognize something that you don't.
Speaker 1: Have interesting, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's in you and we're just having this like little
Speaker 2: moment in space and time where it became available to
Speaker 2: us both. Well.
Speaker 1: I want all the moments in the world like that,
Speaker 1: because it feels good and I am here for it.
Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier, Karina and Station nineteen is such a
Speaker 1: beloved show, and of course the recent news came out
Speaker 1: that the show is being canceled, and I know, oh,
Speaker 1: everyone's just so upset about it. I had Danielle Savory
Speaker 1: on the show. We talked about it, and people just
Speaker 1: can't believe it. I happen to have hope that it
Speaker 1: is going to get picked up somewhere. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: really do believe that. But I know you've crossed over
Speaker 1: and you've done the show, Like, are you bumped to
Speaker 1: see that one go?
Speaker 2: I am? I mean, well, I don't know some but
Speaker 2: I've crossed over this season. Yes, of course I'm sad
Speaker 2: to see it go. I mean, the only the only
Speaker 2: nice thing would be that maybe there and I don't know,
Speaker 2: we don't know how it's gonna go, but maybe some
Speaker 2: of those actors can come over and play with us
Speaker 2: some more.
Speaker 1: That would be so.
Speaker 2: Cool, right, And Peter Page is over there, fantastic director.
Speaker 2: There's like some people that I would like definitely like
Speaker 2: take back if it's gonna be not happening. But of course,
Speaker 2: like we hope it goes somewhere else. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean that's part of our world. Yeah, yeah, And we
Speaker 2: get to usually like we have to like tee up
Speaker 2: disasters and then have them come to the hospital, which
Speaker 2: I think it's harder this year because the hours are reversed,
Speaker 2: so now you can't quite do it that way because
Speaker 2: there's a disaster there. But we've already heard so they're
Speaker 2: going to have to come in.
Speaker 1: Next to me. Little technicality. That's amazing. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: I know that the fans love that show. I know
Speaker 1: that you've been on it and you've you've done a
Speaker 1: lot of fun things over there too. And you mentioned Karina.
Speaker 1: That would have been wild to see happening. It happened
Speaker 1: right had had you and Karna ended up in some
Speaker 1: sort of thing, I know, and that relationship.
Speaker 2: At first, when I heard it was over, I was like,
Speaker 2: or that it was ending potentially, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe Kreen will come back and we'll actually end up
Speaker 2: getting to play that storyline. But I think actually that
Speaker 2: ship is so important to people, you know, in the
Speaker 2: queer community. I think that's pretty epic. So I don't
Speaker 2: know what they're planning on doing, but but that's you know,
Speaker 2: right off into the sunset somehow we.
Speaker 1: Love a sunset moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is it weird.
Speaker 1: For you to imagine this character not being a part
Speaker 1: of your life at this point because it has been
Speaker 1: so long, I mean, she's.
Speaker 2: Gone, you know. It's funny, it is. It does feel
Speaker 2: a bit like like you know how when you're dreaming,
Speaker 2: you're like super in the story and then as you're
Speaker 2: telling it, you're like, and then we were, you know,
Speaker 2: in Holland, and then we got out of the elevator
Speaker 2: and it was Alaska, and so and so the whole
Speaker 2: character has all made sense. But like Amelia now and
Speaker 2: Amelia at the beginning are so different. So she's part
Speaker 2: of the same dream, but she keeps changing. And I
Speaker 2: feel like if I was no longer playing her, I
Speaker 2: think it would kind of feel like that, Like it
Speaker 2: would just feel like waking up from a dream and
Speaker 2: it's in you. All of the benefit of that dream
Speaker 2: that has made you, like process, the feelings and the
Speaker 2: wisdom and the pain that it helped you process is
Speaker 2: still in your waking life. But you know, it's just
Speaker 2: in a different form.
Speaker 1: That's beautifully said. I'm somebody who's so sentimental, and I
Speaker 1: grow very attached to things. I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: my Italian background or very emotional and sappy, but I
Speaker 1: just I don't know. I always think about things like that,
Speaker 1: and it's hard for me to I don't want to
Speaker 1: say change, but to let go of things that mean
Speaker 1: a lot to me. Not that you're doing that right now,
Speaker 1: but it's just such an interesting concept that when that
Speaker 1: day comes, like is that a weird feeling? So I'm
Speaker 1: always fascinated well, and I.
Speaker 2: Don't think in some ways the show's so international at
Speaker 2: this point and it's streamable and so truly like new people.
Speaker 2: We have like three generations watching at the same well
Speaker 2: have like a grandma and a mom and a kid
Speaker 2: all watching together. Like it's become a part of this
Speaker 2: like cultural Youngian psyche I think, where we just like
Speaker 2: represent pieces of human interior life. And so I feel
Speaker 2: like even if the show stopped, I'm still going to
Speaker 2: be having those conversations when I go to a restaurant
Speaker 2: and someone's like, this is what that storyline meant to me,
Speaker 2: and this is what that story So I think it
Speaker 2: will be in my life in ways, probably for most
Speaker 2: of the time that I am like still a functioning person.
Speaker 1: That's the beauty of creating a character that is so
Speaker 1: important to so many And yes, I know the writers
Speaker 1: are incredible and have really developed this over the course
Speaker 1: of the twenty seasons, but I also know that it's
Speaker 1: the artists that bring them to life and are able
Speaker 1: to really connect the character and the show with the audience.
Speaker 1: So it's a really cool thing. Is there something of
Speaker 1: hers that you just like treasure so much that you
Speaker 1: wish you could take home right now and leave at home.
Speaker 2: Like something that she owns, like a physical material thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the scrub cap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the scrub gap so good. We all have our own,
Speaker 2: like you know, and I think Amelia's scrub cap in particular.
Speaker 2: Everyone's scrub cap usually like tips a hat to something
Speaker 2: in their personality, and I feel like Amelia's so beautifully
Speaker 2: captures it almost looks like these firing neurons. It's like
Speaker 2: kind of like little firework images, but it could be
Speaker 2: like dendrites and neurons, and so I feel like the
Speaker 2: gap would like go in a little frame somewhere.
Speaker 1: Does that ever get itchy?
Speaker 2: It's not so bad. It's cotton. I mean, well, have
Speaker 2: looked at we're like in our pajamas on set with
Speaker 2: like running shoots on. It's the best like Hollywood outfit
Speaker 2: you could possibly wear. I think that's why when we
Speaker 2: like get a people's choice of word and we all
Speaker 2: see each other dressed up, we're so excited.
Speaker 1: We're like, you're hot, right, we came out of our sweats.
Speaker 1: I so appreciate you celebrating the show and your character,
Speaker 1: because it is again something that I know everyone's really
Speaker 1: eager for it to come back in a couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: and even after all these years, it still has such
Speaker 1: an intense and beautiful and passionate fandom around it. So
Speaker 1: is there something that you've learned a really amazing, incredible
Speaker 1: life lesson since starting the show that has always kind
Speaker 1: of stuck with you?
Speaker 2: Yes, So I think something that has been coming to me,
Speaker 2: like in like Beautiful Waves especially. I mean, obviously it
Speaker 2: accelerated during the pandemic, but you can see it in
Speaker 2: Grays and through the twenty years of Grace, And I
Speaker 2: don't know if you know my house burned down like
Speaker 2: last January.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so sad to see that on social media
Speaker 1: when you post to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like a super intense situation. But again,
Speaker 2: like that happened, and then like in the aftermath, like
Speaker 2: so much community came and like helped us rebuild our
Speaker 2: lives and like brought toys for the kids and toothbrushes
Speaker 2: and clothes and like it ended up being this really
Speaker 2: beautiful regeneration. But it was kind of like the end
Speaker 2: of like a kind of a chapter of like pandemic
Speaker 2: and COVID and like all of this like intense world loss,
Speaker 2: and I think you see that in Grays as well,
Speaker 2: Like through the twenty years, there's been so much intense,
Speaker 2: intense tragedy. And I think that the way people survive,
Speaker 2: and I don't mean survive, like even in the pandemic
Speaker 2: people died, like, but the spirit survives it is by
Speaker 2: learning how to create a positive relationship with grief. And
Speaker 2: I talked about it at Payleafest and that was kind
Speaker 2: of the first time some of those words had come
Speaker 2: out of my life, and it's really been refining in
Speaker 2: my mind that we kind of look I think in
Speaker 2: American culture especially, we look at grief as something terrible
Speaker 2: that we don't want to be near. But actually grief
Speaker 2: is the process of reconciling with what is, and what
Speaker 2: is in every moment is actually full of love and life.
Speaker 2: And so as long as we haven't grieved, we're in
Speaker 2: the past trying to experience something that's not here anymore.
Speaker 2: So our experience is actually more hollow and thin and
Speaker 2: not nourishing because we're over here and actually life has
Speaker 2: become here. And so until we realize that grief is
Speaker 2: our opportunity to make out with reality, which is here.
Speaker 2: We're not gonna end up having the full experience of
Speaker 2: our entitlement to our moment, right, And so grief is beautiful.
Speaker 2: And the more we like look at it with curiosity
Speaker 2: and like romance and go, okay, what is left to grief?
Speaker 2: What am I still holding on to that isn't real
Speaker 2: or isn't here? Now was real and now there's this
Speaker 2: new reality. The more we're gonna, I don't know, get
Speaker 2: in touch with the vitalness that's going to create an
Speaker 2: amazing now and a more grateful future where you're looking
Speaker 2: at everything that actually still is with like, holy cow,
Speaker 2: I can't believe I get to like experience all of
Speaker 2: this like life, Like I'm here and I can see
Speaker 2: and I can touch and I can love anyway. I
Speaker 2: think grief is kind of the key to life at
Speaker 2: this point, and that's something that I think Gray's Anatomy
Speaker 2: teaches us over and over again.
Speaker 1: Wow, I got chills with you saying that, because I
Speaker 1: think we so often think of grief as this horrible
Speaker 1: thing and it makes us sad and maybe makes us cry,
Speaker 1: and we don't want to experience it, but we do,
Speaker 1: and it can be really debilitating and make you not
Speaker 1: want to maybe live in that moment because it hurts
Speaker 1: so badly. But you're saying it's necessary to appreciate and
Speaker 1: be present and live your life and it's okay to
Speaker 1: grieve and not let that paralyze you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it also tells you, like what you cared
Speaker 2: about if you're grieving, I mean even like, give me
Speaker 2: a small example. If you're grieving a you know, a breakup,
Speaker 2: you get to find out that, like you really were
Speaker 2: attached to the idea that life would look like this,
Speaker 2: or you loved that person, or you love that moment
Speaker 2: in your relationship or that time right, and so you
Speaker 2: get in touch with your values because you're like that,
Speaker 2: Oh God, that was so important to me that I'm
Speaker 2: feeling this intense pain now because it's something I wanted
Speaker 2: so much and it didn't go the way I wanted
Speaker 2: it to. I feel so disappointed that it didn't that
Speaker 2: I don't get to have it now now. But that's
Speaker 2: what I value. So where is that in mine now?
Speaker 2: And what do I need to do to be around
Speaker 2: more of that thing that I loved or loved so
Speaker 2: much in mine.
Speaker 1: Now, Oh my god, you have me over here getting
Speaker 1: all emotional about all of this. That's Oh, that's powerful.
Speaker 1: That's powerful because I think we all can relate to it,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, that's amazing, And thank you for reframing
Speaker 1: that in a way that makes it feel okay and
Speaker 1: less scary and we don't beat ourselves up over it.
Speaker 1: So I think that's a really cool perspective and an
Speaker 1: interesting way to frame it. And I've never really heard
Speaker 1: that before from anybody, so I appreciate you mentioning that.
Speaker 1: How do you I mean, we briefly talked about it,
Speaker 1: but again, like you have such a beautiful outlook on life,
Speaker 1: and I know everyone has a bad day, of course,
Speaker 1: but I guess my question is how do you prioritize
Speaker 1: your mental health so you can be the best version
Speaker 1: of you every single day?
Speaker 2: It's a practice. Basically, if you want to be the
Speaker 2: best mom and friend and to everyone around you, you
Speaker 2: have to be functioning with a nervous system that is
Speaker 2: like intact, right, And so I think, you know, in
Speaker 2: our culture there's such extremes of like selfishness or only
Speaker 2: prioritize others and absorb a lot of toxicity and so
Speaker 2: actually realizing that, like, there's a healthiness to understanding that
Speaker 2: we are these nervous systems walking around and that we
Speaker 2: transmit peace to people through our piece. And so if
Speaker 2: you can find that piece for yourself, you now have
Speaker 2: a wealth that you can transmit to other people and
Speaker 2: be generous with. And so it is. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think I started in this industry at such a young
Speaker 2: age that I saw people burn out physically and burn
Speaker 2: out emotionally and burn out psychologically. I mean, you can
Speaker 2: watch Gray's Anatomy, like we have a high turnover. It's
Speaker 2: a really rigorous, demanding job on all levels, on camera
Speaker 2: and behind the camera and out in the world. It's
Speaker 2: hard and so so much of the job is about stamina.
Speaker 2: And you're not going to have that stamina unless you
Speaker 2: become aware of what hurts and make sure that you're
Speaker 2: supporting it with community and vitamins and exercise and sleep
Speaker 2: and grieving and whatever else you need to do to
Speaker 2: make that nerve, that spiritual nervous system one that you
Speaker 2: would want others to want to be near.
Speaker 1: You know, that's the Katerina cocktail for a healthy, peaceful life.
Speaker 1: I like it. As you said, all those things. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: throw that in the blender, throw that in the blender,
Speaker 1: throw them in peace, grief, all the things.
Speaker 2: Yea. And also and really like the physical piece of
Speaker 2: like checking in with your body. I mean, I can
Speaker 2: tell my kids this. Your body knows so much more
Speaker 2: than your conscious mind knows. And so if you're in
Speaker 2: a situation and it's making you feel exhausted, maybe that's
Speaker 2: not the vitamin that you need. And you don't have
Speaker 2: to judge the situation or the person or the whatever.
Speaker 2: You just go, oh wow, we're all different, and that
Speaker 2: vitamin is not for this body. Maybe it's for someone
Speaker 2: else's body. There's no moral assignment to it. But I
Speaker 2: need to find the vitamins that feed this body in
Speaker 2: the way that this specific body needs.
Speaker 1: I totally had an aha as you just said that
Speaker 1: that needs to be your children's book, like dowling the
Speaker 1: body with the right vitamins and teaching children how to
Speaker 1: do that. You're welcome, there's your book. Go write it.
Speaker 2: Hey, you there, you ill your percentage done?
Speaker 1: And don Katarina, the name of the show is. I've
Speaker 1: never said this before, and I feel like every time
Speaker 1: we talk, we end up talking about things that you
Speaker 1: don't usually you know, run around talking about. But is
Speaker 1: there anything else that comes to mind, something that you
Speaker 1: can think of that you've never said before, whether it's
Speaker 1: silly or deep or whatever you want.
Speaker 2: I think the thing that I have never said before
Speaker 2: is don't worry. I know exactly where I parked the car.
Speaker 1: I was not expecting that.
Speaker 2: Not a thing I've ever said before.
Speaker 1: You always lose your car, and.
Speaker 2: Here are the keys exactly where I always put them.
Speaker 1: All right, So I'm gonna send you some Apple tags
Speaker 1: and you'll be good.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I need.
Speaker 1: That's incredible. My husband can use that too, so I
Speaker 1: hear you and I uh oh, I can't say I
Speaker 1: love that, but I will get you some Apple tags.
Speaker 2: You gotta take a screenshot exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: The news season of your show comes out March fourteenth.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you can tease before I let
Speaker 1: you go?
Speaker 2: Oh? Oh gosh, oh No. I mean I love our
Speaker 2: new intern cast, like the whole new class. They're really
Speaker 2: delightful people, and they're very sweet and dynamic, and I
Speaker 2: just am really I'm really excited about the relationship between
Speaker 2: Amelia and her nephew Lucas. That's kind of a fun
Speaker 2: thing that we're exploring this year. So that's what I'm cheasing.
Speaker 1: Amazing, Well, we can't wait to watch it. As always,
Speaker 1: I freaking love talking to you. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: walking away with twenty five life lessons learned. I need
Speaker 1: to go find a notebook and write them all down immediately.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for being so open and gracious,
Speaker 1: and I hope we can continue chatting many more times
Speaker 1: in the future.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I keep checking in and then we'll have like
Speaker 2: a scrapbook all of our conversations.
Speaker 1: Oh I like that. I like that. And air tags
Speaker 1: are coming your way.
Speaker 2: Air tags.
Speaker 1: Thank you, my love.
Speaker 2: So good to see you, so great to see you too.
Speaker 2: Hi bye.
Speaker 1: I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me Tommy Diderio.
Speaker 1: This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Speaker 1: Never Said This Before. It's part of the Elvis Duran
Speaker 1: podcast network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and
Speaker 1: subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
Speaker 1: tell your friends. Until next time. I'm Tommy Diderio