1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: me Tommy di Dario today's episode. It is a special 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: one because my guest is full of so much love 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: and positivity and wisdom, and she just makes you feel 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: like you're wrapped up in a comforting blanket every single 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: time you listen to her talk. Katerina Scorzonee, Yeah, I 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: said that in the Italian way scorsone. Oh my god, 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: I love that name. She joins the show today. She's 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: an incredible actress best known for her work on the 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: groundbreaking ABC series Grey's Anatomy. Now she stars in the series, 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: which is, by the way, about to hit season twenty 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: on March fourteenth, and she plays Amelia Shepherd and has 13 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: played this role for about fourteen years now. Oh and 14 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: it's also the longest running queer character on television. I 15 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: love that so much. Yes, for representation. Now, when people 16 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: think of Grey's Anatomy, they think of Katerina. She is 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: such a beautiful artist that means so much to so 18 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: many people in the world. We reflect on her journey 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: Gray's Anatomy. Of course, we talk about that queer love 20 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: story with Kai that so many people have been deeply 21 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: invested in we show the spinoff series Station nineteen Some Love, 22 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 1: and Katerina gets really, really well real about the person 23 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: she is behind the character she is so well known 24 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: for playing. So let's see if today we can get 25 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Katina to say something that she has never said before. 26 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: Kat Arena, it is so good to see you. 27 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 2: It's great to see you. 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I feel like whenever we talk, and 29 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: it's been one other time on my Instagram live Pandemic show, 30 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: but I remember thinking I never want this conversation to end. 31 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: So my biggest challenge will be trying to not take 32 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: eighteen hours of your day and make this a concise, 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: fun conversation because we could talk for. 34 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: Hours, like meander it. It was all over the place, but 35 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: it was one of my favorites. I had a really 36 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: fun time during that interview. I will still like grab 37 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: clips of it and like them in other things and 38 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: send them or like there'll be We talked about so 39 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: many things that I think there are a lot of 40 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: like theme months that it'll be part of a compilation 41 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: of that's amazing. 42 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: Well Part two, Here we go, you ready, yeah, here 43 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: we go? All right? Well, first of all, March fourteenth, 44 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: it's coming up. It's right around the corner. 45 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 2: Season twenty. 46 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: Even hearing that, I'm like, season twenty, how how I know? 47 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: I know? 48 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: Are you so excited? 49 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: What would you be? You'd be like a sophomore if 50 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 2: you were born when grade started. 51 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd be a sophomore in college. That's incredible, that's incredible. 52 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: Are you so excited for this new season? 53 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: I actually really am. I think part of it is 54 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: that it was like against all odds, Like we had 55 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: the pandemic and then we had the strike, and you know, 56 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 2: there were so many cataclysms that were making it like impossible, 57 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: and here we are and we have a shorter season 58 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: because of the strike. So usually we do like twenty 59 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: four episodes, and then we did some shorter ones during COVID. 60 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: But this is ten and so this is like super 61 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: action packed. We have to like get everything exciting from 62 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 2: twenty episodes and pack them into ten, and so it's 63 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 2: going to be a good one. 64 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: And you've been playing the character of Amelia for what 65 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: thirteen fourteen years in total? 66 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: Now like fourteen years? 67 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is wild. So what still keeps it exciting 68 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: for you? Like, well, what's the most fun part about 69 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: playing this character still after all those years, I. 70 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: Think that they become real, you know what I mean, 71 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: Like they're they're a fourteen year old at this point, 72 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: and so I don't think I mean, I think a 73 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: way to firm it that would not work for a 74 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,839 Speaker 2: career and a job like this is that like, oh 75 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: now I know what it is. But if you kind 76 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: of keep it like having a relationship with a real 77 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: human being, you're not like, well, they're fourteen, so no 78 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: longer interested. You're like, wow, they're fourteen. Look at all 79 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: they've learned, and look at how they've grown, and what's 80 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: going to happen next and will they be happy? So 81 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: it's a very similar relationship. I think that the audience 82 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: has to the character. 83 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: So you still very much feel attached to Amelia. 84 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, good lord, I'm rooting for her. 85 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: A lot of people are rooting for her a lot. 86 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I need you feel that. I mean, I think again, 87 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: you as you kind of go out in the streets now, 88 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: which we weren't able to do for a while, there's 89 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: these real potent relationships with the people who are watching 90 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: the show and who have attached to the characters, and 91 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 2: you meet them and there is like this wild kind 92 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 2: of cosmic familiarity where they truly have like through Amelia, 93 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: they like through your avatar, they've seen into themselves. And 94 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 2: so you share these like really intimate moments with perfect strangers, 95 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: and I think it really kind of reminds us that 96 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 2: we're all like this intimate family ultimately, once you kind 97 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: of line up the context and understand each other in 98 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 2: that way, like there is this deep familiarity that we 99 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: all have because we're human beings. 100 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Has there been a really impactful or extra 101 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: meaningful moment for you that stands out playing her over 102 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: all those. 103 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 2: Years you mean, like in the narrative in her story 104 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: or like out in the world. 105 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: I guess both. 106 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: I mean there's so many. I think that one of 107 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: the things, you know, we kind of laugh about Shondalane 108 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: and how it's like such a rollercoaster and all of 109 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: the characters have been put through a meat grinder multiple 110 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: times and live or don't. But I think really the 111 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: big thing is, like, I mean, she's been through so 112 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 2: many things, so many losses, and so many massive tragedies, 113 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: and then so many reassemblages of herself that really it's 114 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: just the resilience of her spirit, and I think that's 115 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: what keeps it so vital now, like the resilience of Amelia, 116 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 2: just like going to work and being a doctor and 117 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: being excellent in her field and being fascinated with this, 118 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: like love affair with medicine and science, the resilience of 119 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: her soul after having gone through all of this is 120 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 2: so potent and incredible that in each moment, I feel 121 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 2: like it's kind of the moment. 122 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: She has a lot of qualities and characteristics that mean 123 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: so much to so many people across the board for 124 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: many different reasons, one of them being, of course, the 125 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: storyline with you and Kai and the queer community feels 126 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: so incredibly seen and validated and represented on a primetime show, 127 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: which I always say, you know, with streaming, yes, you 128 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: see it more and more and more, but I would argue, 129 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: you don't really see things like that on primetime as 130 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: much as we should in this day and age. And 131 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: of course, yeah, that relationship was something that people really 132 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: latched onto. Of course, Kai was the first non binary character, 133 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: one of the first on television that I've seen. What 134 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: did that relationship mean to you? To get to explore? 135 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think you're right. I think it 136 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 2: was incredible, especially on primetime, and I think a lot 137 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 2: of our audience, you know, I think right now politically, 138 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 2: gender is being politicized so violently right now, and like 139 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: really leaning into like gender apartheid, where it's like this 140 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 2: or it's this, and so having a non binary character 141 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: and getting familiar with the vocabulary around gender I think 142 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: was something that for the Grey's audience. Obviously we have 143 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: like a big cohort who had been exposed to that 144 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: language and those ideas, and then there was a lot 145 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 2: who happened and so having it approached in such a organic, romantic, 146 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 2: sexy the plot not being about that way, I think 147 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: was huge for the community and for all of us 148 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: like to really start to question, like, well, what the 149 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: heck are we talking about? And so I think that 150 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: that storyline was massive and magical, and er fight Master 151 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: brought it to life in such an incredible way, and 152 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: so I just feel like super honored that I got 153 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 2: to be a part of that conversation and the and 154 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: the community that's like embraced that storyline is so important, 155 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: especially right now, like you know, with what has recently 156 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: happened to next and like all of the kind of 157 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: political jockeying that's taking place. I think that being like bold, sexy, confident, funny, 158 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: romantic representation in this moment is so so so important 159 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: for morale and everyone's mental health. And so anyway, I 160 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: just am like thrilled that I get to be a 161 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: part of that. 162 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: And the breakup crushed people. It crushed the fandom. They 163 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: can't believe it. It's something I've seen on like Twitter 164 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: and people are like, oh my god, is there a 165 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: chance for them to reconcile? I mean, what do you 166 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: think might they get back together? 167 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: I mean, I think again, like we saw Derek again, 168 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: Like anything can happen in shondaland anything can happen right now. 169 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: You know. Ear fight Master is right now doing a 170 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: bunch of other things. They've got like a musical project, 171 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: and they're working with Netflix, and there's like a bunch 172 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: of things going on for them, you know, professionally in 173 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 2: other ways, and so I don't think they're available, but 174 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: at some point, who knows, who knows. I'd always be 175 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: open to it. 176 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: And it's so fun to see you talking about Er 177 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: because it's evident that you both grew very close and 178 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: have a genuine, true friendship. I imagine seeing Er exit 179 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: the show was not ideal, right, It was probably a 180 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: little tough. 181 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 2: I mean, I think for everybody, they really kind of 182 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 2: like stepped onto set and it was like hilarious magic, 183 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: and so I think everybody was like sad to see 184 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 2: them go. But also that's kind of how our show operates. 185 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: And I think they kind of did what they needed 186 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 2: to do in terms of they're so massively articulate about 187 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: the mission right now and helping people to understand and 188 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: reframe in their minds what gender fluidity is and how 189 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: beautiful and fun and magic and creative queerness is. 190 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: That. 191 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 2: I think a platform like Gray's Anatomy served to like 192 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 2: really open the eyes of a lot of people, and 193 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 2: they got to have some really important conversations, and they 194 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: brought together tons of people who never would have maybe 195 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: connected with even parts of themselves, let alone community, you 196 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 2: know of friends and within the community. And then they 197 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: got to go out and do other things to like 198 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 2: further that mission. And so yeah, I mean, I just 199 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: think it was like a wonderful experience, you. 200 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: Know what, Yes to all of that, and yes to 201 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: you being a I'm going to say a queer icon. 202 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: I mean you are like the queer community. Literally, you're 203 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: an icon like Madonna is, like I don't know, got 204 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: gay is? I mean you were somebody who now is 205 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: is so meaningful to that community because you have much 206 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: for it. 207 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 2: I think that every queer person is an icon. I 208 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: really think that the ability to psychologically deconstruct the like 209 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: force of how to normative patriarchy as a person, as 210 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 2: a young person who then like courageously unfolds and finds 211 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: community despite all odds and despite kind of the violence 212 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: that is like all around. I think that anyone who 213 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: has the mental flexibility and courage and grace to explore 214 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: themselves and then be that kind of creative miracle in 215 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: the world walking around is an icon. And so yay. 216 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: When you got the script on day one of playing 217 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: this role, did you know that her storyline was going 218 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: to go towards, you know, exploring her queerness or was 219 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: that a surprise for you? Is that something that just 220 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: kind of came up. 221 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: Mameily was originally written as a queer character, and so 222 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: the very first episode that she appeared in on Private Practice, 223 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: she was in a relationship with her like fellow, the 224 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: doctor that she was, and then and somehow just in 225 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 2: the like edit, we had too many minutes and that 226 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 2: story kind of went away, and then the whole story 227 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 2: went in other directions. But she was originally conceived of 228 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: as a your character, and so I think that that 229 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: was always there, and so then when it came about 230 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 2: I mean, we had the conversation before we'd actually talked 231 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: in the season, before Amelia had Scout, we'd talked about 232 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: Karna and Amelia being together and we kind of made 233 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: reference to it. I think Owen and Karina ended up 234 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 2: hooking up at one point and Amelia walks in and 235 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: was like, I was jealous of Owen. There have been 236 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 2: little sprinkles throughout that it could go in this direction, 237 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 2: but then it didn't happen until now, and thank god. 238 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: I mean, this was first of all, you know may 239 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 2: I mean, that had to happen. That was like an 240 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 2: epic relationship. 241 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: And then you're a fan of that relationship, you're pro them. 242 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: Nineteen is We're going to talk about that in a minute, 243 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: because I know there's some crossover and people love that 244 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: relationship too, But that relationship and the relationships you've been 245 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: in really are two super meaningful ones, which is so 246 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: it's so cool to see when art affects people in 247 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: such a positive way like that. I always think that's 248 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: just so damn beautiful. But aside from that storyline, I 249 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: know a lot of people relate to your character because 250 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: of the struggle with addiction, and that's so hard and 251 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: real for so many people. There's people in my life 252 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: who have dealt with that. So what for you has 253 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: been the most difficult thing to tap into with that storyline? 254 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 2: I think I always want to make sure that we're 255 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: understanding the depth of the psychology behind addiction. And it 256 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: can be kind of looked at through so many lenses, 257 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 2: and there's the kind of like, oh, it's an allergy, 258 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: and there's like all of these different ways to conceive 259 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: of addiction. But I think whether it came first or 260 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: whether it happens later, trauma is always a component, you 261 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: know what I mean, Whether trauma kind of led to 262 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 2: life choices that head into addiction because of isolation, or 263 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: whether through the course of battling the addiction there are 264 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: scenarios that arise that become traumatizing. It's usually like a 265 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 2: big piece of recovery is like kind of unpacking where 266 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: the trauma lies and where the where this psychological loneliness 267 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: or isolation is that the substance of choice, whether it's 268 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: drugs or alcohol or shopping or toxic relationships or whatever, 269 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: the addiction is what attachment need that's serving and kind 270 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: of filling. And so wanted to always approach the storyline 271 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: not just as like she can't stay away from drugs, 272 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 2: but like she's this really multifaceted human who unfolded in time. 273 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: And I mean when she's five, her dad was literally 274 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: shot in the head in front of her, Like that's 275 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: not okay, you know what I mean? And then she 276 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 2: didn't have a dad, and she had four other siblings 277 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: and mom was depressed, and you know what I mean, 278 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 2: Like there was so much that was leading to this 279 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 2: like deeply, deeply lonely state that she was kind of 280 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 2: mentally developing in and looking for relief from. And so 281 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: I always in playing that storyline when I make it 282 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 2: more complicated and deep than just she can't stop taking 283 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: that substance. Why can't she try harder? 284 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: You know, well you do that. You bring so much 285 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: compassion to that part of her life. And I think 286 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: that's why so many people are so just in love 287 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: with how you've portrayed Amelia, and I imagine that's probably 288 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: one of the more rewarding parts of your job and 289 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: playing her is when you hear people say, oh my God, 290 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: like thank you for shutting a light on what it 291 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: really is like to battle addiction. 292 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you kind of want to make people, not make people. 293 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: You want to invite people to. I think sometimes, especially 294 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: with hard stuff like addiction or parts of themselves that 295 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: they're not comfortable encountering. Sometimes by creating this like lovable, 296 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: flawed character, people have the opportunity to kind of in 297 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: a safe container i e. Like our episode or our 298 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: storyline or through this character, they get to touch parts 299 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: of themselves that they are uncomfortable with or haven't forgiven 300 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: or haven't healed, or they need some sort of resolution 301 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: and they can't get it in their own life, and 302 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: so we offer an opportunity to kind of like safely 303 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: touch into those really hard feelings and then maybe who knows, 304 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: but maybe they'll kind of have the courage then or 305 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 2: the self acceptance to like make a move in their 306 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 2: own actual situation or not, or they've gotten what they needed. 307 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: You know, how have you become so in touch with 308 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: who you are and with life and with people and 309 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: with standing on the right side of things, because you're 310 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: somebody who just emits this like radiant, positive, beautiful, flowing energy. 311 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: And it's very interesting that when I meet someone like that, 312 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: and it's often there's always oh, I don't want to 313 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: come out the wrong way. I think a lot of 314 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: people want to be that, and they try to be 315 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: that and they act like that, but it's not who 316 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: they are to their core. But you're all that. 317 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 2: First of all, thank you. I feel like I'm blushing 318 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: and I don't know what to say, so I'm going 319 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 2: to try. First of all, from a very young age, 320 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 2: I started meditating and so like my spiritual life is 321 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 2: like a big part of my life, and I think 322 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: through that it was able to burn away a lot 323 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: of the part that wants me to look at myself. 324 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: And so when someone says something like that, I'm very 325 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 2: aware that the light that you're perceiving is not mine, 326 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like it's I think I've 327 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: I've tried to get out of the way as much 328 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: as I can, and not every day am I out 329 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: of the way, let me tell you, But when I 330 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: am when if someone's having that experience with me, somehow 331 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: my daze has gone away from looking at the meanness 332 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 2: of it, and I'm just kind of getting out of 333 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: the way. And you're having an experience actually of your 334 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 2: own light that I haven't like distracted you from by 335 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 2: making you look at me. There's something bigger that we're 336 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 2: both a part of, and you're just tapping into it 337 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 2: because I didn't distract you from it in that moment. 338 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting perspective. Yeah, No, I totally 339 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: get what you're saying. 340 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 2: And you can't recognize something that you don't. 341 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: Have interesting, Yeah. 342 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: It's in you and we're just having this like little 343 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: moment in space and time where it became available to 344 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 2: us both. Well. 345 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: I want all the moments in the world like that, 346 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: because it feels good and I am here for it. 347 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier, Karina and Station nineteen is such a 348 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: beloved show, and of course the recent news came out 349 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: that the show is being canceled, and I know, oh, 350 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: everyone's just so upset about it. I had Danielle Savory 351 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: on the show. We talked about it, and people just 352 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 1: can't believe it. I happen to have hope that it 353 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: is going to get picked up somewhere. Yeah, and I 354 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: really do believe that. But I know you've crossed over 355 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: and you've done the show, Like, are you bumped to 356 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: see that one go? 357 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: I am? I mean, well, I don't know some but 358 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 2: I've crossed over this season. Yes, of course I'm sad 359 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 2: to see it go. I mean, the only the only 360 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 2: nice thing would be that maybe there and I don't know, 361 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: we don't know how it's gonna go, but maybe some 362 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 2: of those actors can come over and play with us 363 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 2: some more. 364 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: That would be so. 365 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 2: Cool, right, And Peter Page is over there, fantastic director. 366 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: There's like some people that I would like definitely like 367 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 2: take back if it's gonna be not happening. But of course, 368 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: like we hope it goes somewhere else. But yeah, I 369 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: mean that's part of our world. Yeah, yeah, And we 370 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 2: get to usually like we have to like tee up 371 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 2: disasters and then have them come to the hospital, which 372 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 2: I think it's harder this year because the hours are reversed, 373 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: so now you can't quite do it that way because 374 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 2: there's a disaster there. But we've already heard so they're 375 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 2: going to have to come in. 376 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: Next to me. Little technicality. That's amazing. Yeah, it's it's 377 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: I know that the fans love that show. I know 378 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: that you've been on it and you've you've done a 379 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: lot of fun things over there too. And you mentioned Karina. 380 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: That would have been wild to see happening. It happened 381 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: right had had you and Karna ended up in some 382 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: sort of thing, I know, and that relationship. 383 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 2: At first, when I heard it was over, I was like, 384 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: or that it was ending potentially, I was like, oh, 385 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 2: maybe Kreen will come back and we'll actually end up 386 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 2: getting to play that storyline. But I think actually that 387 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 2: ship is so important to people, you know, in the 388 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 2: queer community. I think that's pretty epic. So I don't 389 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 2: know what they're planning on doing, but but that's you know, 390 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: right off into the sunset somehow we. 391 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: Love a sunset moment. 392 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, is it weird. 393 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: For you to imagine this character not being a part 394 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: of your life at this point because it has been 395 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: so long, I mean, she's. 396 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 2: Gone, you know. It's funny, it is. It does feel 397 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: a bit like like you know how when you're dreaming, 398 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: you're like super in the story and then as you're 399 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 2: telling it, you're like, and then we were, you know, 400 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 2: in Holland, and then we got out of the elevator 401 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 2: and it was Alaska, and so and so the whole 402 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: character has all made sense. But like Amelia now and 403 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 2: Amelia at the beginning are so different. So she's part 404 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: of the same dream, but she keeps changing. And I 405 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: feel like if I was no longer playing her, I 406 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 2: think it would kind of feel like that, Like it 407 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: would just feel like waking up from a dream and 408 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 2: it's in you. All of the benefit of that dream 409 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 2: that has made you, like process, the feelings and the 410 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 2: wisdom and the pain that it helped you process is 411 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: still in your waking life. But you know, it's just 412 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 2: in a different form. 413 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: That's beautifully said. I'm somebody who's so sentimental, and I 414 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: grow very attached to things. I don't know if it's 415 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: my Italian background or very emotional and sappy, but I 416 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: just I don't know. I always think about things like that, 417 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: and it's hard for me to I don't want to 418 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: say change, but to let go of things that mean 419 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: a lot to me. Not that you're doing that right now, 420 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: but it's just such an interesting concept that when that 421 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: day comes, like is that a weird feeling? So I'm 422 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: always fascinated well, and I. 423 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 2: Don't think in some ways the show's so international at 424 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 2: this point and it's streamable and so truly like new people. 425 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 2: We have like three generations watching at the same well 426 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 2: have like a grandma and a mom and a kid 427 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 2: all watching together. Like it's become a part of this 428 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 2: like cultural Youngian psyche I think, where we just like 429 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 2: represent pieces of human interior life. And so I feel 430 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 2: like even if the show stopped, I'm still going to 431 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: be having those conversations when I go to a restaurant 432 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 2: and someone's like, this is what that storyline meant to me, 433 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 2: and this is what that story So I think it 434 00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 2: will be in my life in ways, probably for most 435 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 2: of the time that I am like still a functioning person. 436 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: That's the beauty of creating a character that is so 437 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: important to so many And yes, I know the writers 438 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: are incredible and have really developed this over the course 439 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: of the twenty seasons, but I also know that it's 440 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: the artists that bring them to life and are able 441 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: to really connect the character and the show with the audience. 442 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 1: So it's a really cool thing. Is there something of 443 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: hers that you just like treasure so much that you 444 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: wish you could take home right now and leave at home. 445 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 2: Like something that she owns, like a physical material thing. 446 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the scrub cap. 447 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, the scrub gap so good. We all have our own, 448 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: like you know, and I think Amelia's scrub cap in particular. 449 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 2: Everyone's scrub cap usually like tips a hat to something 450 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 2: in their personality, and I feel like Amelia's so beautifully 451 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: captures it almost looks like these firing neurons. It's like 452 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 2: kind of like little firework images, but it could be 453 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 2: like dendrites and neurons, and so I feel like the 454 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 2: gap would like go in a little frame somewhere. 455 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: Does that ever get itchy? 456 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: It's not so bad. It's cotton. I mean, well, have 457 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: looked at we're like in our pajamas on set with 458 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 2: like running shoots on. It's the best like Hollywood outfit 459 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 2: you could possibly wear. I think that's why when we 460 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: like get a people's choice of word and we all 461 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 2: see each other dressed up, we're so excited. 462 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: We're like, you're hot, right, we came out of our sweats. 463 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: I so appreciate you celebrating the show and your character, 464 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: because it is again something that I know everyone's really 465 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: eager for it to come back in a couple of weeks, 466 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: and even after all these years, it still has such 467 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: an intense and beautiful and passionate fandom around it. So 468 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: is there something that you've learned a really amazing, incredible 469 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: life lesson since starting the show that has always kind 470 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: of stuck with you? 471 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 2: Yes, So I think something that has been coming to me, 472 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: like in like Beautiful Waves especially. I mean, obviously it 473 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 2: accelerated during the pandemic, but you can see it in 474 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 2: Grays and through the twenty years of Grace, And I 475 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 2: don't know if you know my house burned down like 476 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 2: last January. 477 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so sad to see that on social media 478 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: when you post to that. 479 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like a super intense situation. But again, 480 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: like that happened, and then like in the aftermath, like 481 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: so much community came and like helped us rebuild our 482 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: lives and like brought toys for the kids and toothbrushes 483 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: and clothes and like it ended up being this really 484 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 2: beautiful regeneration. But it was kind of like the end 485 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: of like a kind of a chapter of like pandemic 486 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 2: and COVID and like all of this like intense world loss, 487 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 2: and I think you see that in Grays as well, 488 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: Like through the twenty years, there's been so much intense, 489 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 2: intense tragedy. And I think that the way people survive, 490 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 2: and I don't mean survive, like even in the pandemic 491 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 2: people died, like, but the spirit survives it is by 492 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 2: learning how to create a positive relationship with grief. And 493 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 2: I talked about it at Payleafest and that was kind 494 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 2: of the first time some of those words had come 495 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 2: out of my life, and it's really been refining in 496 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 2: my mind that we kind of look I think in 497 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 2: American culture especially, we look at grief as something terrible 498 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 2: that we don't want to be near. But actually grief 499 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 2: is the process of reconciling with what is, and what 500 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 2: is in every moment is actually full of love and life. 501 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: And so as long as we haven't grieved, we're in 502 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 2: the past trying to experience something that's not here anymore. 503 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 2: So our experience is actually more hollow and thin and 504 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: not nourishing because we're over here and actually life has 505 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 2: become here. And so until we realize that grief is 506 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: our opportunity to make out with reality, which is here. 507 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 2: We're not gonna end up having the full experience of 508 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 2: our entitlement to our moment, right, And so grief is beautiful. 509 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 2: And the more we like look at it with curiosity 510 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 2: and like romance and go, okay, what is left to grief? 511 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: What am I still holding on to that isn't real 512 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,719 Speaker 2: or isn't here? Now was real and now there's this 513 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: new reality. The more we're gonna, I don't know, get 514 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 2: in touch with the vitalness that's going to create an 515 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 2: amazing now and a more grateful future where you're looking 516 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 2: at everything that actually still is with like, holy cow, 517 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: I can't believe I get to like experience all of 518 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 2: this like life, Like I'm here and I can see 519 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 2: and I can touch and I can love anyway. I 520 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 2: think grief is kind of the key to life at 521 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: this point, and that's something that I think Gray's Anatomy 522 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 2: teaches us over and over again. 523 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: Wow, I got chills with you saying that, because I 524 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: think we so often think of grief as this horrible 525 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: thing and it makes us sad and maybe makes us cry, 526 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: and we don't want to experience it, but we do, 527 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: and it can be really debilitating and make you not 528 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: want to maybe live in that moment because it hurts 529 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: so badly. But you're saying it's necessary to appreciate and 530 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: be present and live your life and it's okay to 531 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: grieve and not let that paralyze you. 532 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it also tells you, like what you cared 533 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 2: about if you're grieving, I mean even like, give me 534 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: a small example. If you're grieving a you know, a breakup, 535 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: you get to find out that, like you really were 536 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 2: attached to the idea that life would look like this, 537 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 2: or you loved that person, or you love that moment 538 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: in your relationship or that time right, and so you 539 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 2: get in touch with your values because you're like that, 540 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: Oh God, that was so important to me that I'm 541 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,479 Speaker 2: feeling this intense pain now because it's something I wanted 542 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 2: so much and it didn't go the way I wanted 543 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: it to. I feel so disappointed that it didn't that 544 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 2: I don't get to have it now now. But that's 545 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 2: what I value. So where is that in mine now? 546 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 2: And what do I need to do to be around 547 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 2: more of that thing that I loved or loved so 548 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 2: much in mine. 549 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: Now, Oh my god, you have me over here getting 550 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: all emotional about all of this. That's Oh, that's powerful. 551 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: That's powerful because I think we all can relate to it, 552 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, that's amazing, And thank you for reframing 553 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: that in a way that makes it feel okay and 554 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 1: less scary and we don't beat ourselves up over it. 555 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: So I think that's a really cool perspective and an 556 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: interesting way to frame it. And I've never really heard 557 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: that before from anybody, so I appreciate you mentioning that. 558 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: How do you I mean, we briefly talked about it, 559 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: but again, like you have such a beautiful outlook on life, 560 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,719 Speaker 1: and I know everyone has a bad day, of course, 561 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: but I guess my question is how do you prioritize 562 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: your mental health so you can be the best version 563 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: of you every single day? 564 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: It's a practice. Basically, if you want to be the 565 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 2: best mom and friend and to everyone around you, you 566 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 2: have to be functioning with a nervous system that is 567 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: like intact, right, And so I think, you know, in 568 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 2: our culture there's such extremes of like selfishness or only 569 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 2: prioritize others and absorb a lot of toxicity and so 570 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 2: actually realizing that, like, there's a healthiness to understanding that 571 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 2: we are these nervous systems walking around and that we 572 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 2: transmit peace to people through our piece. And so if 573 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 2: you can find that piece for yourself, you now have 574 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 2: a wealth that you can transmit to other people and 575 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 2: be generous with. And so it is. I mean, I 576 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 2: think I started in this industry at such a young 577 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 2: age that I saw people burn out physically and burn 578 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: out emotionally and burn out psychologically. I mean, you can 579 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 2: watch Gray's Anatomy, like we have a high turnover. It's 580 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 2: a really rigorous, demanding job on all levels, on camera 581 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: and behind the camera and out in the world. It's 582 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 2: hard and so so much of the job is about stamina. 583 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 2: And you're not going to have that stamina unless you 584 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 2: become aware of what hurts and make sure that you're 585 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 2: supporting it with community and vitamins and exercise and sleep 586 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 2: and grieving and whatever else you need to do to 587 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 2: make that nerve, that spiritual nervous system one that you 588 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 2: would want others to want to be near. 589 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: You know, that's the Katerina cocktail for a healthy, peaceful life. 590 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: I like it. As you said, all those things. I'm like, Okay, 591 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: throw that in the blender, throw that in the blender, 592 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: throw them in peace, grief, all the things. 593 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: Yea. And also and really like the physical piece of 594 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,479 Speaker 2: like checking in with your body. I mean, I can 595 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 2: tell my kids this. Your body knows so much more 596 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 2: than your conscious mind knows. And so if you're in 597 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 2: a situation and it's making you feel exhausted, maybe that's 598 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 2: not the vitamin that you need. And you don't have 599 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 2: to judge the situation or the person or the whatever. 600 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 2: You just go, oh wow, we're all different, and that 601 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: vitamin is not for this body. Maybe it's for someone 602 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 2: else's body. There's no moral assignment to it. But I 603 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: need to find the vitamins that feed this body in 604 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 2: the way that this specific body needs. 605 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: I totally had an aha as you just said that 606 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: that needs to be your children's book, like dowling the 607 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: body with the right vitamins and teaching children how to 608 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: do that. You're welcome, there's your book. Go write it. 609 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 2: Hey, you there, you ill your percentage done? 610 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: And don Katarina, the name of the show is. I've 611 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: never said this before, and I feel like every time 612 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: we talk, we end up talking about things that you 613 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: don't usually you know, run around talking about. But is 614 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: there anything else that comes to mind, something that you 615 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: can think of that you've never said before, whether it's 616 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: silly or deep or whatever you want. 617 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 2: I think the thing that I have never said before 618 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 2: is don't worry. I know exactly where I parked the car. 619 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: I was not expecting that. 620 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 2: Not a thing I've ever said before. 621 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: You always lose your car, and. 622 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: Here are the keys exactly where I always put them. 623 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: All right, So I'm gonna send you some Apple tags 624 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: and you'll be good. 625 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 2: That's exactly what I need. 626 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: That's incredible. My husband can use that too, so I 627 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:31,959 Speaker 1: hear you and I uh oh, I can't say I 628 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: love that, but I will get you some Apple tags. 629 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 2: You gotta take a screenshot exactly exactly. 630 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: The news season of your show comes out March fourteenth. 631 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: Is there anything else you can tease before I let 632 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: you go? 633 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 2: Oh? Oh gosh, oh No. I mean I love our 634 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 2: new intern cast, like the whole new class. They're really 635 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 2: delightful people, and they're very sweet and dynamic, and I 636 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 2: just am really I'm really excited about the relationship between 637 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: Amelia and her nephew Lucas. That's kind of a fun 638 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 2: thing that we're exploring this year. So that's what I'm cheasing. 639 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: Amazing, Well, we can't wait to watch it. As always, 640 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: I freaking love talking to you. I feel like I'm 641 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: walking away with twenty five life lessons learned. I need 642 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: to go find a notebook and write them all down immediately. 643 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for being so open and gracious, 644 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: and I hope we can continue chatting many more times 645 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: in the future. 646 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. I keep checking in and then we'll have like 647 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 2: a scrapbook all of our conversations. 648 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: Oh I like that. I like that. And air tags 649 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: are coming your way. 650 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 2: Air tags. 651 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: Thank you, my love. 652 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: So good to see you, so great to see you too. 653 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 2: Hi bye. 654 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me Tommy Diderio. 655 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio 656 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've 657 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: Never Said This Before. It's part of the Elvis Duran 658 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: podcast network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and 659 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode, 660 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: tell your friends. Until next time. I'm Tommy Diderio