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Speaker 1: We're on from one to four one to four every

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Speaker 1: day now. And to hear the podcast, which you can

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Speaker 1: hear anytime right after the show whenever you want. You

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Speaker 1: go to the iHeartRadio app and click on Podcasts and

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Speaker 1: then type in John and Ken on Demand, John and

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Speaker 1: Ken on Demand, and then get the podcast the whole

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Speaker 1: thing to do with it whatever you wish, all right.

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Speaker 1: A quick reminder that we are taking entries for Google

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Speaker 1: Pool twenty twenty three. Your three picks go to kf

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Speaker 1: I am sixty dot com and you will see the

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Speaker 1: link on our web page, the John and Ken web

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Speaker 1: page for you to enter your picks. I am getting

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Speaker 1: I got quite a few actually last night, sending them

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Speaker 1: to the John and Ken email. It's okay, I just

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Speaker 1: forward them to Ray, but you want to get them

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Speaker 1: directly to where they go to be stored for the

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Speaker 1: data for this year. Use the link right because the

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Speaker 1: web page sometimes, mister Crankie throws out your delete submissions,

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Speaker 1: delete deletes. Yes, no, I literally reached into the computer

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Speaker 1: and pull out your email. You're finger starts to twitch

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Speaker 1: the chance for a thousand dollars John excited the cash

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Speaker 1: refill contest. Yeah, it's fifteen minutes away with another keyword

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Speaker 1: for the hour. Well. Brian Coburger is the man that

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Speaker 1: they believe killed the four college students who went to

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Speaker 1: the University of Idaho. It happened in Moscow on November thirteenth.

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Speaker 1: Their bodies were discovered. It took until last week for

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Speaker 1: police and investigators to arrest Brian Coburger, a PhD student

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Speaker 1: at the University of Washington who lived just across the

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Speaker 1: border near Pullman, but made his way back to Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: to be with his family for the holidays. That's where

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Speaker 1: they arrested him at his parents' home yesterday. He waived extradition.

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Speaker 1: It won't be long before they returned to Idaho and

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Speaker 1: then we'll take a look at the case they have

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Speaker 1: against him. But one thing we know that DNA was

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Speaker 1: key to his apprehension. Along with that car, the White Hunday,

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Speaker 1: These were key clues for them to track him down.

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Speaker 1: That explains why they took as long as they took

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Speaker 1: to arrest this suspect. So we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: the DNA genealogy part with a cc Bore, chief genetic

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Speaker 1: genealogist at Parabond Netal Labs and founder of DNA Detectives.

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Speaker 1: They've helped law enforce been solved more than two hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty crimes. So let's get CC on the air.

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Speaker 1: How are you great? How are you doing? Oh, we're great.

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Speaker 1: We're fascinated by how this works. So we got a

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Speaker 1: lot of questions for you. All Right, what's the first?

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Speaker 1: I can talk about it all day, we might do that. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So first thing that the police do when they show

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Speaker 1: up at the crime scene, they've got to capture the

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Speaker 1: perpetrator's DNA. So what do they do? That's correct, So

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Speaker 1: they're going to have their crime scene investigators collect any

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Speaker 1: physical evidence, hoping that the perpetrator's DNA is in there.

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Speaker 1: They'll first take it to their crime lab and they'll

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Speaker 1: create the forensic profile that is used as evidence in court.

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Speaker 1: That's not the one we use for investigative genetic genealogy.

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Speaker 1: They'll first compare that against law enforcement databases cod IF

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Speaker 1: looking for a match someone who's already an identified offender,

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Speaker 1: and in this case, it appears there wasn't a match,

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Speaker 1: and then they can pretty quickly pivot to investigative genetic genealogy.

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Speaker 1: But to do that, you have to go back to

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Speaker 1: the crime scene DNA and reanalyze it from scratch using

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Speaker 1: more advanced technology, and the crime labs don't have the

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Speaker 1: capability to do that at this point, so they would

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Speaker 1: have had to send that out to a private lab,

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Speaker 1: which there are a few that do this, and then

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Speaker 1: they would create a genetic genealogy profile that has probably

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of genetic markers. Typically we're using up

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Speaker 1: to about a million genetic markers, and then once that

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Speaker 1: is created, they probably sent that back to the FBI,

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Speaker 1: since they were very closely working this case and they

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Speaker 1: have their own genetic genealogy team, and they would have

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Speaker 1: uploaded it to the two databases that were allowed to

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Speaker 1: use for law enforcement cases, which are family Tree DNA

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Speaker 1: and Jetmatch. There's a big misconception that we're using Ancestry

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Speaker 1: DNA and twenty three and ME, but those companies have

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Speaker 1: barred law enforcement from using their databases, and so we

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Speaker 1: are limited to these two smallert databases that have agreed

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Speaker 1: to work with law enforcement, and everyone in those databases

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Speaker 1: has been notified that law enforcement is using that database

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Speaker 1: and they have been given the option to opt in

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Speaker 1: or out of that. So it's important for people to understand,

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Speaker 1: we are not using random people's DNA who have no

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Speaker 1: idea about this. If you're not in those two databases

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Speaker 1: and you haven't opted in or not opted out, depending

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Speaker 1: which database, then we can't use your DNA for these purposes.

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Speaker 1: I have my DNA one of the databases, but one

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Speaker 1: of the databases that doesn't share. I have hundreds of people,

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Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of people on a list that I'm

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Speaker 1: supposedly related to, and it goes like, I think up

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Speaker 1: to sixth cousins. Right, yeah, you're not supposedly related. You

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Speaker 1: are related to those people? Well, all right, you're right,

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Speaker 1: I am related to these people. Yes, Okay, I misspoke there.

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Speaker 1: So I just don't trust anything or anybody anymore. That's

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Speaker 1: my own bias. But I understand DNA doesn't lie. I'm

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Speaker 1: related to hundreds of people, some of them are sixth cousins,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like it's a very tiny amount of

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Speaker 1: DNA that they share with me. Is that enough to

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Speaker 1: point them on the right path? It is, And because

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Speaker 1: you've seen your mass list, you're much more familiar with

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Speaker 1: what we're doing than a lot of people. Most people

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Speaker 1: seem to think that we're just using one match to

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Speaker 1: help solve these cases, and that there's going to be

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Speaker 1: a really close relative in the database. We're usually using

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Speaker 1: very distant cousins. We're lucky if we get second cousin matches.

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Speaker 1: We're more often working with third, fourth, fifth cousins and beyond.

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Speaker 1: They share less than one percent of their DNA with

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Speaker 1: that unknown suspect, So it's lots of tree building. It's

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Speaker 1: looking for patterns, commonalities overlaps, and hopefully common ancestors among

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Speaker 1: those sharing DNA with that unknown suspect. So someone's DNA

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Speaker 1: means nothing to me if I can't build their family tree.

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Speaker 1: I have to be able to identify them and their

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Speaker 1: parents and build back to second, third, fourth, great grandparents.

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Speaker 1: So we're building trees back into the eighteen hundreds, even

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Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds looking for those connections. So most people that

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Speaker 1: would have had their DNA used for this type of

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Speaker 1: investigation would never have even known the suspect. They would

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Speaker 1: be so distantly related they probably never even heard their names. Now,

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Speaker 1: there are exceptions when we occasionally get a close match,

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Speaker 1: but even then we've got to use those more distant

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Speaker 1: matches to vet that make sure everything is telling us

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Speaker 1: the same information and it's all pointing in one direction.

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Speaker 1: Now you have to obtain the DNA from the suspect too, though,

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Speaker 1: to match what has gone through the genealogy free right, right.

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Speaker 1: So once we've worked with that crime scene DNA and

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Speaker 1: come up with a person of interest or several persons

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Speaker 1: of interest, depending how big that family is and how

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Speaker 1: much data we have to work with, then we give

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Speaker 1: that over to law enforcement and it functions as simply

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Speaker 1: a tip. It's a lead generator. Now, of course it's

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Speaker 1: a highly scientific tip, but it still has to be

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Speaker 1: treated the same way it would be if someone just

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Speaker 1: called that name into crime stoppers. No one's being arrested

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Speaker 1: based on genetic genealogy work alone. The law enforcement investigators

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Speaker 1: are going to have to do their full traditional investigation,

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Speaker 1: see if that is a person of interest or one

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Speaker 1: of those people as a person of interest, did any

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Speaker 1: of them fit the age range, or they the right gender,

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Speaker 1: did they live in the area, did they drive a

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Speaker 1: wide a launtra And then if they do identify someone

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Speaker 1: from that that is a real person of interest, they

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Speaker 1: have to follow that individual or somehow their DNA because

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Speaker 1: an arrest can't be made based on the genetic genealogy lead,

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Speaker 1: so they have to usually follow them, look for trash

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Speaker 1: or aptitious DNA, get that and take it back to

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Speaker 1: their crime lab and compare it against that court admissible

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Speaker 1: genetic profile that they created at the very beginning. That

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Speaker 1: is what is used then for the basis of an

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Speaker 1: arrest warrant. That's what gets presented in court. So what

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Speaker 1: do they do They follow the suspect around, yes, pretty often,

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Speaker 1: or they pull their trash. Most states allow law enforcement

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Speaker 1: to pick up your trash off the curb. They pretend

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Speaker 1: like they're trash men. And that's because you've abandoned legally

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Speaker 1: abandoned that trash at that point. If some states don't

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Speaker 1: allow that, in which case they have to follow the

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Speaker 1: person around for a long time, in some cases waiting

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Speaker 1: for them to drop a cup or a napkin or

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Speaker 1: something that they can get DNA, preferably something that they've

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Speaker 1: wiped their mouth or nose with. Yes, people leave DNA

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Speaker 1: just sitting in a room. Absolutely, And that is why

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Speaker 1: it's so incredibly shocking to me that this forensic science student,

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Speaker 1: this criminology student, somehow thought that he could perpetrate this

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Speaker 1: incredibly violent intimate crime and leave without leaving his DNA behind.

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Speaker 1: Anyone who has studied criminology should know you're going to

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Speaker 1: leave some kind of DNA. Maybe he got cut himself

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Speaker 1: while he was in the frenzy stabbing them. That's super

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Speaker 1: common that the knife slips. Someone supposedly fought back. It's

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Speaker 1: been reported one or more of the victims fought back.

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Speaker 1: They could have scratched him, they could have injured him.

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Speaker 1: He could have just left a single hair behind at

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Speaker 1: that scene or skin cells, and they still would be

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Speaker 1: able to identify him, even if he's not in the

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Speaker 1: long enforcement database. We now have investigative genetic genealogy, which

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Speaker 1: greatly expands that scope that reach you. With the law

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Speaker 1: enforcement database, you've got to get that exact person. With

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Speaker 1: investigative genetic genealogy. If we have your second and third cousins,

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Speaker 1: we're good to go. It might take a few hours,

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Speaker 1: it might take weeks or months, but you will be identified.

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Speaker 1: And so I just don't know how he thought he

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Speaker 1: was going to get away with it all, right, hang on, yeah, yeah, CC, yeah, Ceci,

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Speaker 1: hang on, We got more to talk to Cec Moore

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Speaker 1: with she's a chief genetic genealogist at Para Bond Nanto

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Speaker 1: Labs and founder of DNA Detectives. They have helped law

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Speaker 1: enforcement solve more than two hundred and forty crimes. She

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Speaker 1: did not work on the Brian Coburger case. He's the

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Speaker 1: man that they believe killed the college students in Idaho.

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Speaker 1: But she can certainly answer these questions we have about

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Speaker 1: how they do this DNA genealogy tracing to find suspects.

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Speaker 1: Johnny ken caf I AM six forty Live everywhere the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app. All right, our guest to Ccmore, our chief,

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Speaker 1: a genetic genealogist at Parabon Nano Labs, founder of DNA Detectives.

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Speaker 1: They have helped law enforcement solved more than two hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty crimes. Now, they were not involved in the

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Speaker 1: Brian Coburger case, which is the man suspective of killing

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Speaker 1: the college students in Idaho. But she can certainly give

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Speaker 1: us a lot of information about how they do this

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Speaker 1: DNA tracing. All right, so let's get her back on

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Speaker 1: so we should We talked about how the genealogy investigation

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Speaker 1: works and how they use the databasis of these companies

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Speaker 1: that collect genetics. Now they have these genetics and what

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Speaker 1: you say is then they have to look at the

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Speaker 1: specifics of the case and match their list of possibilities

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Speaker 1: to who owns a white alauantra, who's living in the

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Speaker 1: general Moscow, Idaho area, that sort of thing. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: really depends how much we have to work with. And

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Speaker 1: as I've said, we're only working with about two million

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Speaker 1: profiles that we compare against. So who is in that

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Speaker 1: database that's related to that suspect. If they were able

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Speaker 1: to connect matches to both his mom's side and his

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Speaker 1: dad's side, it would have pointed right at Brian and

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Speaker 1: no one else because he's the only son of those

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Speaker 1: two parents. He doesn't apparently have any male siblings. If

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Speaker 1: they were, if they only had enough data, maybe for

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Speaker 1: one side of his family, then that's when they might

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Speaker 1: have had to look at more than one potential DNA contributor.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what they had. Of course, his family

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Speaker 1: tree is full of a lot of relatively recent immigrants,

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Speaker 1: and so that means there probably would have been less

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Speaker 1: representation in the databases because most people who take these

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Speaker 1: tests had gage routs in the United States, and his

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Speaker 1: family doesn't go that far back. So this could have

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Speaker 1: been a really difficult investigative genetic genealogy project, and I

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Speaker 1: think they would have been under a huge amount of pressure,

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Speaker 1: of course, trying to identify him and get him under

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Speaker 1: valence before he victimized anyone else. So they really deserve

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Speaker 1: a huge debt of gratitude from us. Let me ask

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Speaker 1: you this about the crime scene, because something I read

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Speaker 1: early on was, well, it could be difficult in this

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Speaker 1: case because this was a party house. It'd be a

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Speaker 1: lot of DNA in there. How do you differentiate the

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Speaker 1: DNA between the possible criminal and just other people that

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Speaker 1: were in that home, either partying or living there. It's

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Speaker 1: a great question, and we've had cases that I've worked

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Speaker 1: where we identify the DNA contributor for the DNA that

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Speaker 1: is sent to us and it ends up being just contamination.

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Speaker 1: It might be an officer's DNA or somebody who had

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Speaker 1: other reasons for being at that house. And so that

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Speaker 1: is applicable to this case certainly, since there were so

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Speaker 1: many people going in and out and that had lived

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Speaker 1: there previously, and so it really is going to depend

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Speaker 1: on what kind of DNA If it was his blood

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Speaker 1: mixed with the victim's blood from perhaps the knife slipping.

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned, that is you know pretty clear that

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Speaker 1: has to be from the suspect. If it was under

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Speaker 1: the fingernails of one of the victims when they were

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Speaker 1: trying to defend themselves, that would also be you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty clear tie to the crime. So even though if

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Speaker 1: it was touch DNA or a hair, there could be

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Speaker 1: other explanations. And that's why it doesn't just rely on DNA.

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Speaker 1: They have to look at other aspects of the case.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to go to court with just the

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Speaker 1: DNA evidence. So when the blood mixes, they could still

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Speaker 1: isolate his part because the blood bla was so heavy

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Speaker 1: if you remember it was dripping out of the side

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Speaker 1: of the home. Yes, yeah, it's called deconvolution. It happens

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Speaker 1: quite a bit in crime scenes, particularly sexual assaults, where

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Speaker 1: we have to extract out the victims DNA to focus

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Speaker 1: in on that unknown perpetrator's DNA. So it's something the

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Speaker 1: labs that do this type of work are accustomed to doing.

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Speaker 1: It's completely doable. Now if you have multiple people in

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Speaker 1: that mixture, say two of the victims that were in

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Speaker 1: the same room and his DNA, it gets more complicated.

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Speaker 1: It's still doable. Though, because two of those people are known,

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Speaker 1: we know the victim of DNA, it can be extracted out,

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Speaker 1: but we don't do that work. Scientists are doing that,

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Speaker 1: and so we rely on trained scientists to prepare these

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Speaker 1: files before we can perform investigative genetic genealogy on all. Right,

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Speaker 1: if they separate is DNA out at the crime scene

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Speaker 1: from his blood being there, and it's a definitive, it's

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Speaker 1: a definitive match, and they present it in court. Are

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Speaker 1: there any cases you're aware of where the defense was

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Speaker 1: still able to get around that fact and get some

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Speaker 1: kind of acquittal. So none of the cases that I've

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Speaker 1: been involved in where the perpetrator was identified through investigative

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Speaker 1: genetic genealogy in a case like that. We've had over

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Speaker 1: fifty convictions of cases that I've been involved in. What

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Speaker 1: typically happens is the defense will try to bring up

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Speaker 1: investigative genetic genealogy early on and object to it, and

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Speaker 1: the court precedent that we've been seeing. What the judges

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Speaker 1: have been deciding is that the genetic genealogy is irrelevant

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Speaker 1: to the case because what matters is did they get

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Speaker 1: that one to one match from their traditional forensic profile.

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Speaker 1: The one that is court admissible, and so so far

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Speaker 1: we've seen judges ruling that it will not be presented

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Speaker 1: as part of a trial in front of a jury,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully we will continue with that. Because genetic genealogy is,

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Speaker 1: as I said, a lead generator, a tip, it is

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Speaker 1: not evidence to be used against anyone in court. All

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Speaker 1: of our cases have led to a conviction when they

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Speaker 1: went to a jury trial except one. In that case

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Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with the DNA. It was

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Speaker 1: that the victim was a sex worker and the jury

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Speaker 1: did not find her story credible. So we have had

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Speaker 1: one exoneration that it really had nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: the work that we did or the DNA. All right, CC,

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Speaker 1: thanks for talking to us. We really appreciate her fascinating stuff. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. I'm always happy

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Speaker 1: to talk about it and love educating the public on this.

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Speaker 1: When something comes up, we'll call you again. Hey, an

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Speaker 1: upload the jetmatch opt in since you've tested, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'll do that. That's CC Moore, Chief genetic Genealogists to

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Speaker 1: Parabon Nano Labs, founder of DNA detectives, help solving over

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Speaker 1: two hundred and forty crimes but as you heard her say,

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Speaker 1: which is important is what she was just telling John

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Speaker 1: at the end. There's only a couple of these DNA

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Speaker 1: genealogy websites which will cooperate with investigators in cases like

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Speaker 1: the killer of the Idaho college students. It is a

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Speaker 1: geed match or family tree day. There's only a couple

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Speaker 1: of million people in there. The ones that be more

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Speaker 1: commonly no, don't do it. Well, you have to have

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Speaker 1: your permission to do it or something like that. That

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Speaker 1: would be ancestry dot com or twenty three and three

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Speaker 1: and me are the two of the big ones, right,

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Speaker 1: So we should all help out find these murderers. John

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Speaker 1: and Ken k if I am six forty live everywhere

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Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app. We're on from one until four

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Speaker 1: and out one until four and then you can hear

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Speaker 1: the whole show on the iHeartRadio app. You go to

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Speaker 1: podcasts and type in John and Ken on demand and

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Speaker 1: you could hear that thing anytime you want. We just

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Speaker 1: had CC Moron and she does a genealogy research. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's all about crime solving and I've been involved in

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Speaker 1: more than two hundred and forty cases her company. So

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Speaker 1: after talking with her for half an hour. I just

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Speaker 1: looked on my genealogy site, which I hadn't in a while,

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Speaker 1: and they've updated my breakdown. I am now eighty seven

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Speaker 1: percent Poish surprise, surprise, ten percent from the Baltics, which

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Speaker 1: is Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia. I'm two percent German and one

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Speaker 1: percent Jewish peoples of Europe. Naha, I'm one percent Jewish.

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Speaker 1: We with that. I didn't know that. Hey, now, hey, brothers,

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Speaker 1: there we go. You know, mister sklar h is one

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Speaker 1: percent enough? Does that get me in the club? You're Jewish? Jewish? Right?

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Speaker 1: Very slight? Well, maybe I could use it for something.

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Speaker 1: Uh oh, I want to take a moment to defend

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Speaker 1: the vegan devil marks not with it. She's out sick.

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Speaker 1: Maybe back next week. But uh, you were Ragan on

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Speaker 1: Earth through texts because the killer Brian Coburger apparently is

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Speaker 1: a beyond vegan, meaning he doesn't even want you to

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Speaker 1: to use pots for his food that were used to

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Speaker 1: cook meat. Well, the only thing I want to say

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Speaker 1: about that it reminds me of another story we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do later. That that became a headline in some websites.

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Speaker 1: But did they ever catch a mass killer who was

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Speaker 1: a prodigious meat eater and played that up in the story.

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Speaker 1: That's all they did was eat hamburgers and steak night

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Speaker 1: and day. That's gonna explain his Viotum. No, but they

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Speaker 1: have to stick the vegan thing in there, don't because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people look at vegans is a weirdos.

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Speaker 1: I know. I've been trying to reinforce they're they're nasty stereotypes.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that matched her her profile Koberger never sleeps. Uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what it did. Say. Yeah, so we got a

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Speaker 1: vegan that never sleeps. She popped in my mind immediately.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, in case you don't know, we're under

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Speaker 1: a state of emergency, there is another big storm, take

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Speaker 1: your pick, atmospheric River, Pineapple Express. What coming our way

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Speaker 1: tonight tomorrow. It's yeah, it's gonna be the heaviest of

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Speaker 1: we have. It's all purpose in the storm. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're on call whenever we need you to scream with

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Speaker 1: the emergency sirens. Not necessary, not to you right there.

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Speaker 1: So what was funny was when we played that a

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Speaker 1: month ago, you didn't know that. I didn't realize it

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Speaker 1: was mean. He put you on a loop of your

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Speaker 1: rants so we go back to the other scare of

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Speaker 1: the world from a couple of years back, because this

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Speaker 1: is kind of a funny story. It's COVID nineteen. There

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Speaker 1: are people at the airport from the CDC. They're with

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Speaker 1: the Traveler Genomic Surveillance Program we want to call that

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Speaker 1: TGS for short. They walk around looking for people that

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Speaker 1: have gotten off in planes at Lax from China, and

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Speaker 1: they asked them if they can swab their nose. Stick

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Speaker 1: up the nose, Stick up the nose. People, welcome to America,

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Speaker 1: would you like to have that job? Well, when they

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Speaker 1: get back to China, they're gonna get the swab on

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Speaker 1: the anus. Well, the reason is, in case you haven't heard,

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Speaker 1: China has had another uptick in COVID cases. We never

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Speaker 1: know what to believe out of that country because they

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Speaker 1: try to tamp down a lot of the news, but

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Speaker 1: some of it now thanks to technology and social media,

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Speaker 1: does leak out. So right now, the CDC does require

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Speaker 1: everybody coming from China to produce a negative coronavirus test

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Speaker 1: before you even getting on their flights. However, it can miss.

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Speaker 1: It can miss anywhere from from thirty to seventy percent

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Speaker 1: of people. What is the early stages of an infection.

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Speaker 1: What's the point of a test that could be wrong

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Speaker 1: seventy percent of the time. I don't know. That's me

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Speaker 1: like getting remember getting the flu vaccine. Yeah, they could

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Speaker 1: miss seventy percent of the die. What's the point. So

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Speaker 1: that's why they're walking around these sticks. They want to

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Speaker 1: test them right on the site that they have to.

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Speaker 1: It's voluntary though. You don't have to say yes no stick.

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Speaker 1: You can say no to the stick. But apparently they smile.

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Speaker 1: They're very nice. Yeah, you know what, I don't care

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Speaker 1: how much they smile. You're not putting a stick up

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Speaker 1: my nose. They come up to you like the old hottections,

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Speaker 1: and they they tilt their head and they smile and

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Speaker 1: pleasure me anyway you want. You're not getting my nose.

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Speaker 1: It's not an able stick though, But it is because

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Speaker 1: there's a story today from the Lovely Daily Mail. What

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Speaker 1: a headline. Chinese families have started burning bodies of their

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Speaker 1: loved ones in the streets amid COVID explosion as corpses

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Speaker 1: pile up in crematoriums and funeral homes. If you've heard

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Speaker 1: this story three years ago, it was kind of the

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Speaker 1: same story. I remember the bodies piling up. This is

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Speaker 1: really interesting because they just loosened all their and they

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Speaker 1: got rid of their zero COVID policy, right, And now

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Speaker 1: they have an entire population and nobody has any immunity,

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Speaker 1: right because everybody was lockdown so severely for three years.

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Speaker 1: On top of that, their vaccine sucked, It didn't work

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Speaker 1: very well at all, not particularly affected, and they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: buy the vaccines from America. And so you have this

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Speaker 1: huge population with no antibodies, either from vaccines or from

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Speaker 1: a previous run and with COVID, which means it's all

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Speaker 1: virgin territory. And what happens when you have no antibodies,

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Speaker 1: if you're in the right or wrong group, you're much

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Speaker 1: more likely to have a severe illness. And so that's

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Speaker 1: what's happening. Yes, what's happening. What's protecting us? Now? That

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Speaker 1: the reason we don't have high death rates even anymore,

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Speaker 1: even though there's a still a lot of COVID going around,

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Speaker 1: is almost all of us. They think ninety five percent

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Speaker 1: of us have antibodies, either through getting it with or

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Speaker 1: without symptoms or the vaccines. So China is just got

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Speaker 1: nothing to protect itself. COVID cases have surged in Shanghai.

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Speaker 1: They estimate that seventy percent of the city twenty five

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Speaker 1: billion population have been infected recently. So that's what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about here. And you're right, if it's a bad

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Speaker 1: vaccine or a vaccine nobody got and people are isolated

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Speaker 1: and didn't pick up any kind of antibodies, this is

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Speaker 1: like a fresh wave. Yeah. Well, I mean there was

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Speaker 1: a debate early on if you remember whether you know

428
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,479
Speaker 1: you just let rap hert immunity, let everybody get it,

429
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: uh and and you know, try to isolate the ones

430
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: that are going to be the most vulnerable, almost the

431
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: old people, right, So I mean we ended up with

432
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: them with underlying health conditions that the theory. We ended

433
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 1: up with a mishmash hybrid and it added up to

434
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: not complete herd immunity, but most people have some antibodies,

435
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: so they're not likely to get seriously ill or die. Now. Yeah,

436
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: so it's some some middle ground that we stumbled into.

437
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: But but you see, one of the things that happened

438
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: with them reducing the COVID restrictions, it's the laying that

439
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: their people travel. So now they're wanting to go places

440
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: around the world, and that's whether alarms are being raised.

441
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: We're going to do someone The CDC is sending out

442
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: people with nasal swabs. Well, they're worried someone's going to

443
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: bring in a variant that we don't have any protection against.

444
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: My question about this story is if you walk up

445
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 1: to somebody just got off a plane from Beijing, right,

446
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: and they agree to the swab, are you going to

447
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: hold them there while you put it in the machine

448
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 1: to see and if it is positive? What do you do?

449
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: You take them into custom or They didn't add anything

450
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: else to the story. They didn't. They just said they're

451
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: there with the swaps for people. Remember, they're just trying

452
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 1: to collect data to see yea the senator coming in infected.

453
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: That's what I wondered. Is this just for statistics and

454
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: then after they analyze it, then they'll come in with

455
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: a campanic mars you're cracked out, yeah, and shut off

456
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: travel day. Percent of them have COVID. Well, that's that's

457
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,719
Speaker 1: the thing. I mean. I'm at a point like if

458
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: I get sick, I don't want to know. Yeah, I

459
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: just I don't want to have to tell people report

460
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: it in a database. None of that, but you get

461
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: sicked and you're not sick. And just like I'm still

462
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 1: getting that notification asking me to join the contact thing.

463
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: You know that the state California. I still get that

464
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: text and I still have to hit the button dismiss

465
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: and then stop setting up. Right, But they said it

466
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: that way, they're still sending it up. Well, it just

467
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: started again like a month ago. I had not gotten

468
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: it for like a year, and all of a sudden

469
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: it popped up again on my phone. There's a whole

470
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: government industry that's never gonna go away. All right, we

471
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: got more coming up. John and Ken k if I

472
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: am six forty. We're live every where are the iHeartRadio app.

473
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: We're on from one until four and out one until

474
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: four and you could hear the whole show at any

475
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: time on the iHeartRadio app. Go to podcast type in

476
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: John and can on demand and you will get us

477
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,479
Speaker 1: on demand. Well done. Well, if you want to these

478
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: people that walks around telling folks at ass California has

479
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: forty million people, we're big state. Well the number is

480
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: now thirty nine million. Yeah, we'll talk about it after

481
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: the news at four o'clock. We led the charge for

482
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: people leaving the state. Where'd they go? Have a guess

483
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: what state they went to. Yeah, despite what give dippity

484
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: Doo likes to say about people are coming here for

485
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: all sorts of reasons. That ain't That ain't the proof.

486
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: So we'll talk about it after they're fleeing in big numbers. Yeah,

487
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: there's no disputing it. Yeah, people are shocked in Pasadena.

488
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: Who knew a doctor by the name of Darmesh Arvin

489
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: Patel forty one years old. He's a radiologist with Providence

490
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: Holy Cross Medical Center in Hills. Why are they shocked? Well,

491
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: have you ever driven down Highway One in northern California?

492
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: It's pretty dramatic, isn't it pretty scary? He in a tesla,

493
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: a model why to be exact, was in that tesla

494
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: with his wife and his two young children, and they

495
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: drove right off a cliff. And according to rescuers, nobody

496
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: survives that the family did. They're actually been pretty good shape.

497
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: But they believe that Patel did this on purpose, in

498
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: a murder suicide attempt, and he has now been arrested.

499
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: His wife, forty one years old, his seven year old

500
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: daughter and four year old son were in the car.

501
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: Did you see pictures of the wreckage. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

502
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: It's shocking. I mean, to fall that far and hit

503
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: that hard and nobody's even seriously injured. One of the

504
00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: possibilities is that the Tesla model why has airbags everywhere,

505
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: front airbags, seat, mounted side airbags, and curtain air bags,

506
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: all which appeared to inflate in the crash. They haven't

507
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: confirmed that this helped save the family, but we think

508
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: there's a good chance that it did diversely. That's an

509
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: incredible endorsement of a Tesla, right, if you ever drive

510
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: off a class you can't die in it, even if

511
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: you want to. I mean the footage is I mean

512
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: the pictures, I'm looking at them right now. The car

513
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: is just so mangled, but you can see how the

514
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: airbags look deployed there. I'm thinking of all kinds of

515
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: sick commercials, but I'll just control myself here. Possibly he's

516
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: been charged with attempted homicide, child abuse. I did see

517
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: a TV story this morning where they talked to neighbors John.

518
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: You know what they said, what a nice family is. Well,

519
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: actually the reporter was showing the woman the story on

520
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: his on the phone and She's looking down at the

521
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: phone and going, oh my god, no that the patels.

522
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: This can't be never saw any any problems over there.

523
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: Finally one neighbor spoke up, which made me laugh. Oh

524
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: they found one. Well, what he said was, I noticed

525
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: that their garbage should been out there for quite a while.

526
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: They've been gone a while. That's because they took this

527
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: trip where it looked like he wanted to kill them all.

528
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes. This is a fifteen miles south of San Francisco.

529
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: They actually called this Devil's Slide. It's known for fatal crashes. Yeah,

530
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: battalion chief said, we go there all the time for

531
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: cars over the cliff, and the people never live. This

532
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: was an absolute miracle. It flipped a few times before

533
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: landing on its wheels, wedged against the cliff, just feet

534
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: from the water, and it went down two hundred and

535
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: fifty three hundred feet down the cliff. I mean, what

536
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: kind of a mental breakdown did this guy have that's

537
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: take out his kids, A radiologist too. It's not like

538
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 1: he I know it was a murder suicide attempting, right,

539
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: I mean it's I mean some some darkness in his

540
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: life and just mental illness or you know, does he

541
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: think did he did he gamble away all the family's money.

542
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: Oh there's some untold story about his finances or some

543
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: weird sexual perversion that was going to be uncovered. Just

544
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: basical depression. Yeah, I couldn't live at the pressure. I'm

545
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: sure a lot of people in medical field often feel pressure.

546
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: There's a lot of pressures. Yeah, he's a radiologist. A radiologist. Yeah,

547
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: that's I mean, it's not like you're working, uh like ansthesiologists, right,

548
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: they work twenty four hours shifts. Right. I know because

549
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: we were once at a hospital, right, and the anasthesiologist

550
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: he was at the end of the twenty four hours shift,

551
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, I don't know if I want you

552
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: putting anything in my wife. I mean, are you awake?

553
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: You know what you're Yeah. Remember a story from like

554
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: a month ago where apparently the ansteeologist was on fentnyl. Yeah,

555
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: and the guy woke up, the guy was being operated on,

556
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: woke up and he's like, well he found out later

557
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: this guy uses fenel. Yeah. Yeah, I don't get the

558
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: twenty four hour shifts at a hospital. There's got to

559
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: be a better way to schedule that, especially when you

560
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: when you're having an anesthesia and you can kill somebody

561
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: with a tiny mistake. Well, I imagine details will come

562
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: out about what may have made this man this depressed

563
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: and I wanted to take his own life. And Tesla

564
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: model why huh, oh, why yes, which is kind of

565
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: a smaller version of the X, which is kind of

566
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: a it's called a crossover. You can't kill yourself even

567
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: if you want to, all right, Coming up next, the

568
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: exodus continues. The latest census number shows that the state

569
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: of California is now officially thirty nine million people, not

570
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: forty million anymore. John and Ken caf I Am six

571
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: forty Live everywhere, the iHeartRadio app Debermark is at Mark

572
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: Ronner Live, the twenty four hour Cafe one news Room,