Speaker 1: You're doing me.
Speaker 2: Another complimentary Hello friends, welcome to Hot MIC's.
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Speaker 2: to Harry's song right there, my producer, Harry just tickling
Speaker 2: a little.
Speaker 1: Bit on the guitar because we're gonna launch right in.
Speaker 2: Here with Hayden, Pennetier and the latest on that mother
Speaker 2: spoke out. Vladimir Klitchko said a lot of really beautiful things.
Speaker 1: But good morning to everybody. Thanks for being with us.
Speaker 1: Love you. There's Pam.
Speaker 2: Keep watching the clip on the beautiful Fragile Flower. Hayden
Speaker 2: was a sweet person, Pam, You are right about that.
Speaker 2: God bless everybody who loved her.
Speaker 1: That is true.
Speaker 2: Police are currently at the home of the brothers who
Speaker 2: were there when Hayden passed away.
Speaker 1: Richard Master English Dick. Check out Billy's last show if
Speaker 1: you missed it.
Speaker 2: Brilliant interview. Thank you English Dick. We love you for
Speaker 2: that very much. We interviewed Matt Murphy, longtime Orange County prosecutor.
Speaker 2: That has to do with the Clancy trial though, so
Speaker 2: we'll get to that in a second. But yeah, we're
Speaker 2: gonna start with Hayden Pannetier mom, Leslie Vogel, reacted. She
Speaker 2: called into NBC News. She wishes, she says that Hayden
Speaker 2: had chosen a different path in life. Said it was
Speaker 2: difficult in Hollywood growing up in that scene. Of course,
Speaker 2: Leslie ironically was the manager.
Speaker 1: Forever and helped her grow up in that scene.
Speaker 2: But as I expected, pivoted to Brian Hickerson, who is
Speaker 2: Hayden's on again, off again boyfriend for years, A very toxic,
Speaker 2: tumultuous relationship, a deeply troubled individual, she said Leslie Vogel,
Speaker 2: Hayden's mom, said she was not surprised that Brian Hickerson
Speaker 2: was there in the end when she died.
Speaker 1: He was He was there. He and his brother Zach
Speaker 1: called nine one one.
Speaker 2: NBC reports that Zach was emotional while the EMTs tried
Speaker 2: to save Hayden's life. Ryan was not visibly emotional until
Speaker 2: she was pronounced dead. They were in an Airbnb in Greenville,
Speaker 2: South Carolina. TMZ broke the story that Hayden had a
Speaker 2: full bag of medication on her when she died. Her
Speaker 2: boyfriend Brian Hickerson shared that with police. The specific medications
Speaker 2: were not identified in the police report, but it sounds
Speaker 2: like there were nine different drugs and they were all redacted.
Speaker 2: So there's the report not sharing that yet, probably until
Speaker 2: the autopsy is done.
Speaker 1: But Narkhan was found in the apartment.
Speaker 2: I mean, who travels with narcan? You got a real
Speaker 2: problem if you're doing that. But narcan obviously reverses opioid overdoses,
Speaker 2: so they were you know, I mean, at least there
Speaker 2: was some preparedness. We're going to do some opioids tonight,
Speaker 2: yepe might as well have some mark narkhan with.
Speaker 1: Us in in case we get close to death.
Speaker 2: Epinephrine was also used on the scene, which would line
Speaker 2: up with the initial nine to one one call describing
Speaker 2: cardiac arrest. Epinephrine helps to address cardiac arrest. TMZ reports
Speaker 2: that paramedics trying to resuscitate Hayden using advanced cardiac life support.
Speaker 2: Our sources say that this treatment uses special medicines, breathing tubes,
Speaker 2: heart rhythm tracking, chest compressions. Of course, but ms was
Speaker 2: called at one fifty one PM and she was pronounced
Speaker 2: dead at two thirty two, so she.
Speaker 1: It was relatively quick.
Speaker 2: She obviously shares her daughter Kaya with Vladimir Klitschko.
Speaker 1: Who's a hero in all of this. Right. She was
Speaker 1: married to Vladimir.
Speaker 2: They had a daughter together, but that demon inside of
Speaker 2: her drew her to Brian Hickerson in a way from
Speaker 2: Vladimir Klitchko. He put up a really thoughtful, beautiful statement
Speaker 2: about her passing. He said, the announcement of Hayden's tragic
Speaker 2: death saddens me deeply.
Speaker 1: She left this world far too soon. Hayden was, although
Speaker 1: no longer.
Speaker 2: My partner, an important part of my life and the
Speaker 2: mother of our daughter Kaya.
Speaker 1: We built an incredible career.
Speaker 2: Through immense talent while also facing the darker sides of
Speaker 2: a very demanding industry. I extend my deepest condolences to
Speaker 2: Hayden's parents are friends. I ask everyone to please respect
Speaker 2: our family's feelings and privacy. Thanks to everyone who's supporting
Speaker 2: my family and expressing their sincere condolences.
Speaker 1: Rest easy, Hayden. May you find eternal peace.
Speaker 2: And it is very clear that she could not find
Speaker 2: peace in her life.
Speaker 1: It's just so tragic. I knew her, like I said,
Speaker 1: and she was just a really great girl.
Speaker 2: She was sweet and her addiction to Brian Hickerson is
Speaker 2: where we need to turn our attention because it was
Speaker 2: just it was not good, not healthy, and there is
Speaker 2: no surprise. As soon as I heard that Hayden Bennetier died,
Speaker 2: I am immediately.
Speaker 1: Knew that Brian Hickerson was present.
Speaker 2: She talks about her relationship with him in her book,
Speaker 2: which she released in May of twenty twenty six, and
Speaker 2: she details the domestic violence incidents multiple that occurred between
Speaker 2: the two because, as she said in the book, he
Speaker 2: was Doctor Jekyl and mister Hyde.
Speaker 1: When the alcohol got.
Speaker 2: In to his system, he literally became a monster. And
Speaker 2: yet he never you know, got clean, and he loved
Speaker 2: pulling her in with him.
Speaker 3: A little behind the scenes. On Sunday night, you and
Speaker 3: I were talking about Monday's show, and in the middle
Speaker 3: of that conversation, I got the alert that she had
Speaker 3: passed away. And the first words out of your mouth
Speaker 3: were Brian Hickerson. Brian Hickerson, Brian Hickerson. No question, was
Speaker 3: there no question?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: The irony of the death of Hayden pennetieres that she
Speaker 2: is most famous for playing an indestructible cheerleader on Heroes
Speaker 2: and she was pushed to the brink over and over
Speaker 2: again and ultimately succumbs at thirty six.
Speaker 1: Just an interesting point, but Brian is all over the
Speaker 1: book for.
Speaker 2: His domestic violence and his beatings of Hayden Pennetier. I
Speaker 2: remember he copped to it right when the book came out.
Speaker 2: He was on TMZ Live and he was slurring his words.
Speaker 2: He was talking, you know, just drunk as a skunk.
Speaker 2: In the middle of the day. He told the interviewer,
Speaker 2: you know, I wish I'd been taught what domestic violence
Speaker 2: was when I was younger.
Speaker 1: Do you do you need to be taught.
Speaker 2: That you don't grab a woman by the throat and
Speaker 2: push her up against the wall, smash her head into
Speaker 2: the wall, and then with an open hand slapper so
Speaker 2: hard her face goes to one hundred and fifty degrees
Speaker 2: and his ringing for the next two days. Do you
Speaker 2: need to be taught that that is something you don't do?
Speaker 2: Brian was booked on felony domestic assault years ago.
Speaker 1: It was a terrible.
Speaker 2: Row inside her condominium. He tried to say when the
Speaker 2: police got there that she had punched herself repeatedly, and she.
Speaker 1: Beyond sad. He pled no contest, and then he told Hayden,
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: Remember, and I'm so sorry. And this is when he
Speaker 2: became sweet again.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: This is a pattern that all domestic violence victims know.
Speaker 1: They know this over and over again.
Speaker 2: Four months later, the DA, I think it was Gascone
Speaker 2: at the time, George Gascone, the worst DA in the
Speaker 2: history of Los Angeles, dropped the charges. He loved to
Speaker 2: drop charges on criminals. How do you say soft on crime?
Speaker 2: Despite all he'd done to me, Hayden writes, I still
Speaker 2: love the person I thought he was. Oh, someone says,
Speaker 2: they can hardly hear you, billy, Why would that be?
Speaker 1: My microphone is oh it is something's wrong. You got
Speaker 1: the mic pot.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, that's not the case, Harry.
Speaker 1: Hello, hello, hello. Oh it is really weak, though. Let's
Speaker 1: see if we can bring it up. Hello. Hello, Is
Speaker 1: that any better? Harry? You don't hear that?
Speaker 3: I hear fine, it's it's not on my end. I
Speaker 3: see nothing.
Speaker 2: I see that the microphone. Let's try and all right,
Speaker 2: let's see what we can do here. We'll speak up
Speaker 2: and tell me if that's a little bit better. Is
Speaker 2: that a little bit better?
Speaker 1: Yes? Better? Rose, Yes? Better? Thank you? Okay, I'm out.
Speaker 2: Doctor Jekyll and mister Hyde. When he was drinking, he
Speaker 2: can flip into a rage instantly.
Speaker 1: She wrote.
Speaker 2: He was arrested in Los Angeles on that incident because
Speaker 2: he'd beaten the shit out of her multiple times. He's
Speaker 2: six feet tall, he's a big I always wish why
Speaker 2: didn't Vladimir klitch go some.
Speaker 1: He knew what was going on. He must have known.
Speaker 2: He saw the fights between the fight, that awful TMZ
Speaker 2: fight that spilled out into the street from a bar
Speaker 2: at the Sunset Marquis Hotel. I wish Vladimir Klitchko flew
Speaker 2: to the book. He would destroy Hickerson. But of course
Speaker 2: Brian called and begged her not to press charges. She
Speaker 2: did anyway, This was one major time she set up.
Speaker 1: She stood up for herself. Bail was set at three
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty grand on the guy.
Speaker 2: Also in that TMZ live interview in May when the
Speaker 2: book came out, he said, Hayden Penetier is the sweetest
Speaker 2: thing in the world. She's a Sunday girl, meaning you.
Speaker 2: Saturday nights are for you know oo, but you're the
Speaker 2: one you love is there Sunday. Hayden's one of the
Speaker 2: most talented people I've ever met. I would be an
Speaker 2: idiot not to walk away from her and let her
Speaker 2: flourish in her career. We wouldn't be good together. And
Speaker 2: yet you didn't let her walk away and flourish in
Speaker 2: her career because.
Speaker 1: You needed her right.
Speaker 2: Maybe she was what made him feel better about himself,
Speaker 2: and whatever disdain he had for her for actually staying
Speaker 2: with someone as diminished as him made him violent towards her.
Speaker 2: I don't know here I go armshair psychiatrist, but it's
Speaker 2: the definition of toxic, this relationship between the two.
Speaker 1: Klitchko's statement was great. The mother again, Leslie Vogel.
Speaker 2: They had a terrible falling out. You know, she ultimately
Speaker 2: put it on Hickerson, which is fair because he's no
Speaker 2: doubt a deeply compromised person.
Speaker 1: Okay, do we have a little sound from Hayden?
Speaker 2: Did we get the Do we have the audio of
Speaker 2: Hayden Panetier my friend?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: We do. Hang on.
Speaker 1: Here comes this.
Speaker 2: This is her reading from her book. Listen to this.
Speaker 2: This is her talking about the domestic violence incident, what
Speaker 2: happened with Brian Hickerson.
Speaker 1: It's the only reason to share it now.
Speaker 2: Is because this guy needs to be held to account,
Speaker 2: all right, hit it.
Speaker 5: One night, he busts up my face so badly I
Speaker 5: don't leave the house for weeks. Another day, he screams
Speaker 5: at me to run his foot in five seconds because
Speaker 5: I'll need a headstart before he throws a remote control
Speaker 5: at me. The remote control hits my face. He stands
Speaker 5: in the doorway of our living room, reaching at me
Speaker 5: to give him my phone. He's afraid I'm calling Vlad
Speaker 5: and then I'll tell Lad about the abuse. I run
Speaker 5: up the stairs and he follows me. You're not getting away,
Speaker 5: give me the phone. I turn, flip and fall on
Speaker 5: the steps. I look up and there's Brian. Punches rain
Speaker 5: down hard. My head hits the wall, and he's straddling me,
Speaker 5: hitting me down using all his weight. Why did you
Speaker 5: hit yourself, he screams as I struggle under him. We're
Speaker 5: all bruised. Why did you do that to yourself? I
Speaker 5: break free and run to the living room, toward the
Speaker 5: front door. I grab my keys and phone. I consider
Speaker 5: calling nine one one yeat, then the public would know,
Speaker 5: and the public can't know. I slammed the door behind me.
Speaker 5: Run to my car. I hear sirens down the street
Speaker 5: and I know my neighbors called nine one one. This
Speaker 5: is out of my hands. The cops have questioned Brian
Speaker 5: than me, and I'll have to say the truth. Well,
Speaker 5: Brian knows it wasn't me who called the cops. It
Speaker 5: was our neighbor. Brian's booked on charges of felony domestic assault.
Speaker 2: Wow, that is really hard to listen to. And what's
Speaker 2: harder to understand is that she could not leave him
Speaker 2: no matter what, even when she went to rehab for
Speaker 2: eight months. She went away for eight months, got herself
Speaker 2: totally clean. That's how long it took, and continued on
Speaker 2: with him after that. It's devastatingly sad.
Speaker 1: Um.
Speaker 2: Okay, how is my audio now? Are we okay? Do
Speaker 2: we have audio? It looks like I have it on
Speaker 2: my screen. Let's see what the people say. Do I
Speaker 2: have audio? I'm speaking with a basso profundo right now,
Speaker 2: a big and powerful bass in the voice.
Speaker 1: Is it good? Thumbs up? Says Kevin's Queen's seventy six.
Speaker 1: Thank you my friend? All right? Um, we love you, Hayden,
Speaker 1: and we will see what happens.
Speaker 2: And to Brian Hickerson from here, I hope to God
Speaker 2: at least he goes and if this doesn't send the
Speaker 2: guy to rehab, I don't know what will.
Speaker 1: Okay Clancy. The Lindsay Clancy trial.
Speaker 2: Sue Clancy, Lindsay's mother in law, on the stand yesterday.
Speaker 1: She said Lindsay loved her children very very much.
Speaker 2: She felt unwell, she was losing her appetite, she was
Speaker 2: begging for help. This is her mother in law. And
Speaker 2: remember this is a grandmother that lost three kits. So
Speaker 2: she has every right to say to side with the
Speaker 2: prosecution and hate Lindsey Clancy. But the prosecution is absolutely bombing,
Speaker 2: bombing it.
Speaker 1: Is you can smell the stench. They are bombing so bad.
Speaker 2: The cross exam of Sue Clancy was as subtle as
Speaker 2: a sledgehammer, like a bull in a china shop.
Speaker 1: These two assistant das.
Speaker 2: Jennifer Spragg, who was at the microphone at the time,
Speaker 2: asked if Susan is a member of the Catholic Church,
Speaker 2: and she says yes, I am. And then Spragg says,
Speaker 2: and you're aware that murder is considered a mortal sin.
Speaker 1: Here she is shaming her for being a bad Catholic. Okay.
Speaker 2: The judge goes sidebar and pulls Jennifer Spragg over. This
Speaker 2: is a government employee violating the First Amendment by asking
Speaker 2: a private citizen on the stand about her religious beliefs
Speaker 2: and shaming. There were courtroom gasps, like everybody in there
Speaker 2: was like, oooh, what did she just do?
Speaker 1: It was?
Speaker 2: It was I think it was a death sentence for
Speaker 2: them with the jury. Beyond that abomination, the prosecution is
Speaker 2: trying to sell the idea that Lindsey Clancy did not
Speaker 2: tell doctors about the auditory hallucinations she was. She later
Speaker 2: admitted to she didn't tell them before the deaths because
Speaker 2: she wanted to keep her kids so she could kill
Speaker 2: them in a premeditated fashion. Now the prosecution has to
Speaker 2: prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 1: This is a mountain to climb. Truth.
Speaker 2: Admitting that your hearing voices is like laying your shame
Speaker 2: out for the world to judge. There is a pressure
Speaker 2: all women know about on them on how to handle
Speaker 2: it all. Every woman has pressure to be the perfect mom.
Speaker 2: Some comes from other women right in carpool, like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, she can't even handle her kids.
Speaker 1: Look at her. Oh my god, Jesus, she wears the sweatpants.
Speaker 1: She doesn't even wash her hair.
Speaker 2: My god, everybody's judging, not just from other moms of course.
Speaker 1: But just society in general.
Speaker 2: There's a competition, there's a judginess, and she could lose
Speaker 2: her nursing license. So is Lindsay Clancy gonna come forward
Speaker 2: and be like aoh, I'm hearing voices.
Speaker 1: No, the shame is too deep.
Speaker 2: On redirect the Amazing Attorney Kevin Reddington asked Sue Clancy
Speaker 2: about options that were presented to Lindsay and she said
Speaker 2: one was the Women in Infants Hospital in Rhode Island.
Speaker 1: They took her there. This is one of three hospitals
Speaker 1: she went to. She said.
Speaker 2: Lindsay was turned away because she was over medicated and
Speaker 2: called suicide hotlines twice, so they were like, yeah, we
Speaker 2: can't help you, Jesus, isn't that what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2: Doctor Donald Kandy took the stand. Child and Adolescent and
Speaker 2: adult psychiatrist. He testified and confirmed this that she was
Speaker 2: discharged from Women in Infants Hospital in Rhode Island after
Speaker 2: seeking treatment. The records stated hospital staff believe she was
Speaker 2: experiencing complications from medication, not necessarily postpartum depression, making her
Speaker 2: a bad candidate.
Speaker 1: For the program Oh My God.
Speaker 2: And then doctor Condy reviewed the records of this very
Speaker 2: young psychiatrist who was thirty two years old and had
Speaker 2: only been on the job one month at the time
Speaker 2: she started seeing Lindsey Clancy, Jennifer Tuffs. He reviewed her
Speaker 2: records and said, they are somewhat sparse. There are many
Speaker 2: checkboxes in the records, but not a great deal of
Speaker 2: sentences that describe what was done during the sessions. And
Speaker 2: this is exactly what Reddington did the other day when
Speaker 2: he was when the prosecution was in charge. Reddington cross
Speaker 2: examined Douc you know, Jennifer Tufts, and was like, excuse me,
Speaker 2: you have dropped down.
Speaker 1: Menus like how are you feeling today?
Speaker 6: Good?
Speaker 2: Bad, in between check like this is what a psychiatrist does.
Speaker 4: Know.
Speaker 2: I went to a psychiatrist and he recorded every session
Speaker 2: so he could listen back and take copious notes and build.
Speaker 1: A very deep file on me.
Speaker 2: Not a drop down menu that says good, bad or ugly.
Speaker 2: I mean really bad, really really bad.
Speaker 1: And I think this goes beyond Jennifer Tuffs.
Speaker 2: The Astor Mental Health, which is the company for whom
Speaker 2: Jennifer Tuffs worked, aimed in the civil suit which is coming,
Speaker 2: the civil suit that Lindsay. Lindsay's lawyer, by the way,
Speaker 2: Rosemary Skipechio Woo, She's got a reputation in the Boston
Speaker 2: area as an absolute badlander, like she is tough, she
Speaker 2: is feared, and she will be going after all these people.
Speaker 2: But Donald Condy, Doctor Condy on the stand recalls that
Speaker 2: Jennifer Tuff's prescribed Zoloft to.
Speaker 1: Lindsay, starting at twenty five milligrams.
Speaker 2: And then going up to fifty, doubling it, and that's
Speaker 2: when the sleeplessness hit like a hammer and Lindsay got
Speaker 2: insomnia for forty eight hours straight, couldn't sleep. He said,
Speaker 2: that's called activation, and it's I think most of us know,
Speaker 2: it's a pretty good indication that you shouldn't be on
Speaker 2: this medication. You've got something else, like an underlying major
Speaker 2: mood disorder like a bipolar if you have that type
Speaker 2: of reaction to an SSRI like zola. At another point,
Speaker 2: they bring up doctor Paul Zeisel, a clinical forensic psychologist.
Speaker 2: He's actually on the stand right now as we speak.
Speaker 2: In day sixteen, he reported that Lindsay told him that
Speaker 2: she this is big. He reported Lindsay told him that
Speaker 2: she had heard a male voice ordering her, telling her
Speaker 2: that she didn't have any choice. She had to kill
Speaker 2: her children and then kill herself. He said, Clancy only
Speaker 2: had auditory hallucinations, which can be experienced like waves at
Speaker 2: the beach.
Speaker 1: They come and they go. Lindsay felt that people could
Speaker 1: actually hear her thoughts.
Speaker 2: He said that her thoughts were so loud that strangers
Speaker 2: could hear them. Now, remember she's saying this after she
Speaker 2: had killed the kids, but she thought that teachers at
Speaker 2: school could hear her thoughts. This goes back to the shame.
Speaker 2: This is a woman in postpartum psychosis.
Speaker 1: You can't expect her to be like, ah, gigs up,
Speaker 1: you know what.
Speaker 2: Now I should probably, you know, go and share the
Speaker 2: fact that I'm hearing voices.
Speaker 1: You know, this is the shame.
Speaker 2: There's not sympathy and love and outreach for someone who
Speaker 2: says I'm hearing voices. There's oh my god, they're crazy,
Speaker 2: That's what there is.
Speaker 1: There's gossip, there's judgment.
Speaker 2: So English Dick earlier put up a nice comment on
Speaker 2: the screen. He said, you know, to check out the
Speaker 2: interview I posted yesterday with Matt Murphy.
Speaker 1: I hope you do.
Speaker 2: If you're following the Clancy trial. Matt Murphy's outstanding. I
Speaker 2: was well prepared. We had a good, really good conversation
Speaker 2: about it. Matt's was in the Orange County Prosecutor's office,
Speaker 2: in the DA's office as a prosecutor for twenty years
Speaker 2: three in child crime, and then he spent seventeen years
Speaker 2: in the homicide unit. The man has prosecuted a lot
Speaker 2: of bad people. He's watching this, he's grading the prosecution
Speaker 2: and the defense. He's got a really good take. Let's
Speaker 2: go with SOT two, Harry. He makes a prediction here
Speaker 2: of what happens.
Speaker 7: There's cases that I have really strong opinions about. This
Speaker 7: is one where I really don't. It's a horrible case.
Speaker 7: But I can tell you right now, I can call
Speaker 7: this shot. The jury's gonna come back and find her
Speaker 7: legally insane. If I had to guess that's what's going
Speaker 7: to happen, Bang.
Speaker 2: That's the call right there. Then Matt and I talked
Speaker 2: about well, we talked about the performance prosecution versus defense.
Speaker 1: Harry. Let's take a look at SOT three here from
Speaker 1: Matt Murphy, Massachusetts.
Speaker 7: The final prong is called the control fool prong, and
Speaker 7: that is they're suffering from a mental disease or defect,
Speaker 7: and from that, even if they know it's wrong, if
Speaker 7: they're unable to control their actions, then they are legally insane.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 7: So and and that's the problem with this case that
Speaker 7: I think is the is the crux of it.
Speaker 1: She understood that it was wrong.
Speaker 2: The prosecution is screwed here because she knew it was wrong.
Speaker 2: She knows it's wrong, but in the moment, she couldn't
Speaker 2: control herself.
Speaker 7: That's the defense argument. By the way, this defense lawyer,
Speaker 7: he is doing an excellent job. He's doing an excellent job.
Speaker 1: So his performance, his presence, his voice, his controlling I'm
Speaker 1: so enamored with this guy.
Speaker 2: I hate to be a fanboy, but his the South
Speaker 2: Boston accent, even with the way he says post Padham
Speaker 2: I mean, and he's cozy and he's well presented.
Speaker 4: I have to say, can I jump in here for
Speaker 4: just a second on this with Big Red and you
Speaker 4: and this I'm a namored Like I remember saying that
Speaker 4: to my first girlfriend.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm enamored because we're from there. I'm enamored with you.
Speaker 2: You are enamorous from mass and you know, and and Steve,
Speaker 2: Steve Harding, our beloved Steve was from Lynn Lynn, City
Speaker 2: of Sin. I mean, we got a lot of massholes
Speaker 2: working on this programs all over us. But Kevin Reddington,
Speaker 2: this guy, did I call him cozy?
Speaker 1: Did I call him you?
Speaker 3: If we were to go back to the end of
Speaker 3: the clip, you said, he's cozy.
Speaker 1: Dude. You know who's cozy. Ali's cozy.
Speaker 3: You and Ali are cozy together, You and I, You
Speaker 3: and I are not cozy. And I've known you thirty
Speaker 3: five years. We're dudes, aren't cozy?
Speaker 2: Big Red is cozy? And I got a big fat
Speaker 2: man crusher on the guy.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it. I'm not I'm not running from it. God,
Speaker 1: I love this. This This is one hell of an attorney.
Speaker 2: By the way, there's a little show I watch at
Speaker 2: night called Commonwealth Confidential on NBC ten local show, but
Speaker 2: you can watch it on YouTube and they do a nice.
Speaker 1: Little quick wrap up.
Speaker 2: It's it's cliff notes wrap up, but they did a
Speaker 2: little piece of three minute piece. Their legal analyst went
Speaker 2: to visit Kevin Reddington before the trial.
Speaker 1: Began, went to his office.
Speaker 2: The man got famous for his big break or what
Speaker 2: really he was known for was he represented Mo Vaughn,
Speaker 2: the legendary Boston Red Sox player, when he was being
Speaker 2: prosecuted for OUI or DUI, and Reddington was really funny.
Speaker 1: He's like, I was in a shit position. Let's be honest,
Speaker 1: you know, because if I get.
Speaker 2: If I get mo Vaughn off, it's like, ah, of
Speaker 2: course he got off, no problem, he's mo Vaughn. Of
Speaker 2: course he was gonna what Boston Jerry is gonna sentence
Speaker 2: mo Vaughn.
Speaker 1: And then he's like, and if I don't, I screwed
Speaker 1: up mo Vaughn. Do you low? Would you lose mo Vaughn?
Speaker 1: You idiot? Uh, he's got a great person out.
Speaker 2: Like I said, when they make the movie of this trial,
Speaker 2: I like Ed O'Neill from Modern Family in the role
Speaker 2: of Kevin Reddington. If you can top that, take a
Speaker 2: shot in the comments section.
Speaker 1: I welcome it.
Speaker 2: All right, Um, the Clancy trial rolls on. We will
Speaker 2: have much more to say. Let's shift attention to Amy Griffin. Okay, guys,
Speaker 2: just a little Amy g update here.
Speaker 1: As you know, she is locked in two lawsuits.
Speaker 2: One she's the plaintiff, the other she's the defendant against
Speaker 2: a woman that was in the eighth grade class.
Speaker 1: With her back in Amarillo, Texas.
Speaker 2: This woman says that Amy basically stole her story of
Speaker 2: childhood abuse by a teacher and made it her own
Speaker 2: for her book, The Tell, which was a best seller
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five. It came out Oprah and sa
Speaker 2: Ben and all the muckety much and big you know,
Speaker 2: people just promoted her story. But obviously problematic because this
Speaker 2: woman was interviewed by.
Speaker 1: The New York Times. New York Times found.
Speaker 2: Her and she said, this is very eerily familiar to
Speaker 2: what happened to me, and thus the problems began. So
Speaker 2: in California, you'll remember that Amy Griffin filed a anti
Speaker 2: slap trying to get Jane Doe's California case against her
Speaker 2: thrown out. It didn't work. That case is going forward
Speaker 2: in California. So now it's Jane Doe's turn because Amy
Speaker 2: is the plaintiff and suing her for defamation in a
Speaker 2: federal case in Nevada. So Jolene sorry, her name is
Speaker 2: Jane Doe, and Jolene.
Speaker 1: There it's now out.
Speaker 2: Even even Jane Doe's lawyers are calling her Jolene. As
Speaker 2: they respond to this Nevada case, Jolene's lawyers filed a
Speaker 2: motion to strike Amy Griffin's defamation suit in Nevada. Amy
Speaker 2: is crying defamation of her claims, which were recovered under
Speaker 2: MDMA assisted therapy.
Speaker 1: Psychedelics.
Speaker 2: The reasons they're trying to get Amy's suit thrown out first,
Speaker 2: Amy's a public figure who neither adequately pleads nor can
Speaker 2: prove that Jolene acted with malice, that is, with knowledge
Speaker 2: of false information or with reckless disregard for the truth.
Speaker 2: The complaint actually directs its malice narrative at the New
Speaker 2: York Times.
Speaker 1: Amy is obsessed with The New York Times.
Speaker 2: And its reporter Katie Rossman, ascribing to them preconceived conclusions,
Speaker 2: leading questions, shitty reporting, an investigated z zeal on which
Speaker 2: Amy Griffin's theory depends.
Speaker 1: They also Katie Rossmins.
Speaker 2: They cite Katie Rossmin's purported state of mind and so
Speaker 2: called jealousy of Amy Griffin.
Speaker 1: Your lawsuit should be with the New York Times, right.
Speaker 2: Amy, You should be suing them, not this woman who
Speaker 2: has eight people corroborating her story from that time, or
Speaker 2: corroborating elements of it altogether. But second reason they wanted
Speaker 2: out is the evidence that Amy Griffin's signals that she
Speaker 2: will rely upon the transcript of her conversation with a
Speaker 2: Sergeant Eatley of the Amarillo Police Department back in the
Speaker 2: day and the transcript of her conversation with her ghostwriter
Speaker 2: Sam Lansky, have already been found unauthenticated and excluded by
Speaker 2: the California judge, Judge Fruin in that lawsuit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Amy says, this is a declaration. This
Speaker 1: is evidence.
Speaker 2: You see, I told my story to a police sergeant, Okay,
Speaker 2: but all he did is listen and take notes, so
Speaker 2: he's not you know, that's not real corroboration. Third reason,
Speaker 2: Amy Griffin is an incompetent witness under rule six Tozho two.
Speaker 2: Her recovered memories are the product of illegal psychedelic drugs,
Speaker 2: and she admits there is no independent corroborating evidence which
Speaker 2: establishes that any of the central rape scenes actually happened
Speaker 2: to her. And in the tell Amy writes, I would
Speaker 2: never know for sure. I just have to live with
Speaker 2: the uncertainty. She constantly throughout the book doubts herself. She's like,
Speaker 2: how could this be true?
Speaker 1: There's no way that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't even believe it. I'm never gonna know.
Speaker 2: There is no smoking gun. These are all things that
Speaker 2: she writes in the books. So she's kind of saying,
Speaker 2: I don't have any corroboration. I've only recovered this from
Speaker 2: a psychedelic session. And by contrast, Jane Doe or Jolene
Speaker 2: has submitted multiple declarations corroborating the core aspects of her account.
Speaker 2: That she is the basis for the character Claudia in
Speaker 2: the book, and that the central assault scenes, which is
Speaker 2: one at the middle school dance and another in a middle.
Speaker 1: School bathroom, happened to her.
Speaker 2: Also, like I said, seven or eight declarations have been filed,
Speaker 2: which include details like the borrowed floral dress for that
Speaker 2: eighth grade dance, the assault at the dance, Jane Joline,
Speaker 2: her disheveled return when a teacher pulls her away. There
Speaker 2: are those who saw the disheveled return, especially the boy
Speaker 2: that took her to the dance.
Speaker 1: The return of the stained dress in a bag.
Speaker 2: Corroborated, the later violent bathroom assault, and Jane Doe's foster
Speaker 2: care background written about in the book proposal about the
Speaker 2: when describing the character Claudia.
Speaker 1: All in there.
Speaker 2: The fourth reason they want Amy Griffin's federal lawsuit against
Speaker 2: Jolene thrown out is that Amy misstates the New.
Speaker 1: York Times article.
Speaker 2: She ignores her own writing in the tell, and relies
Speaker 2: on statements protected by the litigation privilege to manufacture the lawsuit.
Speaker 2: Jolene's statements constitute protected speech on a public issue and
Speaker 2: were made in furtherance of the New York Times just
Speaker 2: news gathering and interviewing for their publication. In other words,
Speaker 2: she didn't just come out with these. She was answering
Speaker 2: questions from an interviewer in the New York Times. Fifth
Speaker 2: reason and final, the lawsuit is pre procedurally improper. Amy
Speaker 2: Griffin's defamation claim is a compulsory counterclaim that belongs, if anywhere,
Speaker 2: in the pending California action.
Speaker 1: There's no reason they're saying to have its own trial.
Speaker 2: All the details, all the elements, are already in the
Speaker 2: California case.
Speaker 1: My take on this, Like.
Speaker 2: I said, Amy should be suing The New York Times,
Speaker 2: but she's not. Why why aren't you suing The New
Speaker 2: York Times. That's defamation. I mean, I'm not saying it's defamation,
Speaker 2: but you got a better shot at defamation there. Remember,
Speaker 2: you know, Justin Baldoni filed a defamation suit against The
Speaker 2: New York Times.
Speaker 1: Ultimately it was thrown out, but he filed one.
Speaker 2: For what they're for their the writer's collusion they claim,
Speaker 2: you know, with Blake Lively's team.
Speaker 1: So uh.
Speaker 2: Anyway, for these main and the reasons set forth below,
Speaker 2: the court should grant this motion in full and award
Speaker 2: attorney's fees to Jane Doe.
Speaker 1: You decide.
Speaker 2: I think it's a pretty good motion. I think it
Speaker 2: has a real good chance of going through. Mary Trottman,
Speaker 2: where are you girl?
Speaker 1: Mary? Says Billy. Your show with the last night was
Speaker 1: hands down phenomenal.
Speaker 2: Jeez, Mary, thank you for that. I really like Matt Murphy.
Speaker 2: He's going to be back. He's promised to come back
Speaker 2: as a guest and you know, anything in the true
Speaker 2: crime space, which we you know, just like this Lindsey
Speaker 2: Clancy Drout will have him back.
Speaker 1: Also want our.
Speaker 2: Girl Melanie little on at the end of the week
Speaker 2: to kind of wrap up the week for us.
Speaker 1: She's so good at that.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's turn to politics as entertainment, all right. The
Speaker 2: circus we used to do it was a great series
Speaker 2: on HBO, and it just shows you how nuts our
Speaker 2: politics are and the characters.
Speaker 1: In our politics right now. We got nuts on the
Speaker 1: left and we got nuts on the right.
Speaker 2: The Bushman is right here in the middle, looking at
Speaker 2: all the crazies in both directions. I have a bipartisan
Speaker 2: take on our politics. Let's start with here's the show.
Speaker 2: Palestinian sympathizers got talent, mullapalooza. Here the talented mister mom
Speaker 2: Danny and Abdul's clues.
Speaker 1: This is crazy, Abdul l say ed, Let's begin with him.
Speaker 8: He's the flagmday when it comes, I wanna well, thanks, mailbox.
Speaker 6: We just got a letter.
Speaker 1: We just got a letter. We just got a letter.
Speaker 1: I wonder Whi's from it.
Speaker 8: It looks like my ballot brought to me by my
Speaker 8: secretary of state.
Speaker 1: Take it down and with it I can participate in democracy.
Speaker 8: The first day that I can turn this in is
Speaker 8: June twenty fifth.
Speaker 7: That has to be postmarked by July.
Speaker 1: Get him off. Oh my god, why are you courting
Speaker 1: the six year old vote? Why?
Speaker 2: Why would you do blues clues? Why are you showing
Speaker 2: people how to register? Are they are there plans? To
Speaker 2: register kids. Now, not just dead people.
Speaker 1: What is happening? Boy?
Speaker 2: Now, here's the other part. I mean, this guy's got stones.
Speaker 2: And I bet your mom Donnie's jealous.
Speaker 1: Mom. Donnie's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no.
Speaker 2: I'm the Muslim American guy with an enormous amount of talent.
Speaker 1: I'm the guy with all the charisma. What are you doing?
Speaker 2: You need to be boring like Rashid Talib and elan Omar.
Speaker 2: You leave mister charisma and personality to me, all right,
Speaker 2: the talented mister.
Speaker 1: Mom Donnie, Uh, here we go. He's you've seen the
Speaker 1: rapping video. Get a load of this. I mean this
Speaker 1: is in.
Speaker 6: But I mean, I mean we have we also do
Speaker 6: you know our show keys?
Speaker 2: We do?
Speaker 6: I mean we have we also? Do you know our
Speaker 6: show keys? We do our inkma, I mean we have
Speaker 6: we also Do you know our show keys? We do
Speaker 6: our show in comfort?
Speaker 1: Something's wrong with it? Actually he does this whole thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, Uh, it's I think he's I don't know what
Speaker 2: what it's Swahili. I think it might be Swahili. He's
Speaker 2: rapping in But the dude, he's he's a chameleon. I
Speaker 2: mean he is he's a man of many colors, and
Speaker 2: don't think that's not attractive to a lot of people.
Speaker 2: How about this, He's he's got this new initiative in
Speaker 2: New York where he's setting aside Broadway tickets for high
Speaker 2: school students.
Speaker 1: And part of his.
Speaker 2: Announcement on social media where he reigns supreme is in Mandarin.
Speaker 1: The guy speaks Chinese. I mean, check this.
Speaker 9: Out in Solitia, Mayor Zoramandani Kusher whamp sure, Shiah no,
Speaker 9: you are sure? Jung Fu Jiang Yai song Chu Yang
Speaker 9: Chenang by Lao Huai yen Chu.
Speaker 1: Men play okay.
Speaker 2: Compare that to Donald Trump, who goes, I like China,
Speaker 2: we make deal, We make deal.
Speaker 1: The Chinese they love me. They see me coming and
Speaker 1: they say, he make deal. This guy speaks Mandarin. He's
Speaker 1: that is another another weapon in his tackle box. He's lethal.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2: You take the l Sai ed blues clues thing, and
Speaker 2: you take mom Donnie rapping and speaking Mandarin.
Speaker 1: And you put them together. And what's the reaction. What
Speaker 1: does it do to people? Is it working? I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what. In my opinion, it deepens the feeling.
Speaker 2: That you had already whatever feeling you had about these
Speaker 2: two guys before, you now feel that that much stronger
Speaker 2: pro and con. But you know, to be reminded, they're
Speaker 2: both unequivocally anti Israel. They are unequivocally socialist, anti police,
Speaker 2: antiiz pro punishment for any type of wealth building. And sadly,
Speaker 2: I will say this for the Democrats, if they can't
Speaker 2: fight it off and get back to the center, they're
Speaker 2: making Trump necessary and relevant.
Speaker 1: He's lit.
Speaker 2: Trump is literally imploding, and embrace these guys makes Trump
Speaker 2: necessary again. You're only by embracing them, you're building up
Speaker 2: him and whoever's gonna try and carry on his act.
Speaker 2: Speaking of the King, the don nobody man handles the
Speaker 2: media and distracts from legitimately crazy shit that he's doing.
Speaker 2: Like DJT masterclass in media manipulation. He's doing some stuff
Speaker 2: that I mean only I can't even say you're shocked anymore.
Speaker 2: But embracing Kim Jong un canceling military exercises with South
Speaker 2: Korea because Kim Jong un is my friend, threats to Oman,
Speaker 2: We're gonna blow the shit out of you. We're gonna
Speaker 2: bomb you if you get in the way and try
Speaker 2: to negotiate with Iran to open the Straight of Horn Moves.
Speaker 2: That's an ally of ours. We need them very badly.
Speaker 2: Don't threaten to bomb them. The sailors who've been at
Speaker 2: sea way too long on the USS Abraham Lincoln, with
Speaker 2: insufficient food and just mental health purposes, shouldn't be out
Speaker 2: there for over nine months, which is what's happening. So
Speaker 2: all of that's happening now, and in order to negate
Speaker 2: every bit of it, forget all that he's doing. Trump
Speaker 2: has never been happier than when he has someone to
Speaker 2: fight and a new courageous, younger Democrat is now trying
Speaker 2: to fight Donald Trump on his turf and to hand
Speaker 2: combat insults. Don't play the insult game with Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom tried.
Speaker 1: It had a little.
Speaker 2: Bit of success. I think Boom got knocked off the map.
Speaker 2: Gavin's not even in the question. At a Sunday rally
Speaker 2: in Georgia, Senator asof John Asoff decided to take a shot.
Speaker 1: Here's John.
Speaker 2: He said, Trump is so great he wants to build
Speaker 2: his ballroom and travel with Natalie on their apparently defenseless
Speaker 2: flying palace gifted by the Emir of Cutter and then
Speaker 2: he got pressed on in an interview with Jen Saki
Speaker 2: on MSNBC, he was asked why he specifically named Natalie.
Speaker 2: Who's Natalie Harp, who is the executive assistant and.
Speaker 1: Special adviser or whatever to the president.
Speaker 2: She's thirty five years old. Asoff said, well, I'd heard
Speaker 2: this particular aid Natalie referred to as his security blanket.
Speaker 2: So he didn't use the word affair. But all a
Speaker 2: bunch of Republicans came roaring out and they were like,
Speaker 2: he is insinuating an affair between the president and this
Speaker 2: thirty five year old woman. Frankly, let's not say that
Speaker 2: Trump doesn't have the moral aptitude or immoral aptitude to
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: I think he's just eighty years old and too tired,
Speaker 1: but he would try. Come on, don't act like, oh my,
Speaker 1: that's beneath the president. Please please don't do that.
Speaker 2: Robbie Starbuck accused John Ossof of directly of insinuating their
Speaker 2: having an affair.
Speaker 1: He called it vile.
Speaker 2: Brandon Gill, who's a SoundBite machine of a congressman, called
Speaker 2: it vile. White House spokesperson Davis Ingle, I had never heard.
Speaker 1: Of this guy, but he's apparently got some pep in
Speaker 1: his step.
Speaker 2: He called those off a cringe worthy feminine theater kid
Speaker 2: caused playing as Barack Obama, and of course Trump calls
Speaker 2: him pee wee Herman and John Jackoff. I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's Trump. Someone else might in the administration, but
Speaker 2: John Jakob and pee Wee Herman. Don't mess with these
Speaker 2: guys when it comes to the insult game.
Speaker 1: But who is Natalie Harper?
Speaker 2: It has been reported that Natalie Harp's closeness to the
Speaker 2: President ruffles feathers. It's a sore subject internally in the
Speaker 2: White House.
Speaker 1: Who is she?
Speaker 2: She's a former One America News presenter, which is like
Speaker 2: right of Attila the Hunt. She became a Trump aid
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. She's been inseparable from the President since.
Speaker 2: She reportedly referred to President Trump as her guardian and
Speaker 2: protector in this life in devotional letters The New York Times,
Speaker 2: Maggie Haberman wrote a piece on Natalie and that relationship.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she's very bright and an earnest young woman.
Speaker 1: On Aaron Burnett and CNN. Her brother showed up and clearly.
Speaker 2: They're not tight, as he said, She's always one wanted
Speaker 2: to be in the White House, and she's been infatuated
Speaker 2: with presidents and that she wrote letters to George W.
Speaker 2: Bush trying to do what she's doing here with Trump,
Speaker 2: and uh didn't didn't work out. Of course, she was
Speaker 2: probably a kid at that point. But but now she's
Speaker 2: living her dream and she loves Trump and you know Trump,
Speaker 2: Trump loves people that love Trump. And if you have
Speaker 2: been undying, you know fangirly uh you know, uh addictive
Speaker 2: praise of him. He's all about it. Okay, but there's
Speaker 2: no way there's an affair. There's no action there.
Speaker 6: You get.
Speaker 1: Trump is too smart to know he he's too old.
Speaker 1: He's too smart, too old. Okay. Final story, This one
Speaker 1: caught my attention this morning.
Speaker 2: I in my news feed, up came five different stories
Speaker 2: that were suggested for me.
Speaker 1: Exhibit eleven. Put this up.
Speaker 2: It is the James Haven story that popped up on
Speaker 2: my Harry, do you have the albums?
Speaker 3: I'm working on that now there's an issue with it
Speaker 3: uploading on my end. I've got it on my phone
Speaker 3: here for us to see you.
Speaker 1: You worries, Harry. You don't have to talk so long
Speaker 1: that you are delaying to get it up. There. I'll
Speaker 1: put it up on here. Here it is on my screen.
Speaker 2: James Haven reveals how dad, John Voight reacted to him
Speaker 2: coming out as gay. What do you think when you
Speaker 2: click on that? Of course, the headline is always there
Speaker 2: to draw you in. Do you think, oh shit, John Voyd,
Speaker 2: conservative Republican Trump.
Speaker 1: Guy did not react? Well?
Speaker 2: How did John Voight react when James Haven finally came out?
Speaker 2: I knew instantly, and I knewhim instantly. It wasn't that
Speaker 2: because this stereotypes, this black and white prism we often
Speaker 2: see things through is just bullshit.
Speaker 1: Of course, Jean Voyt supported his son.
Speaker 2: He's eighty seven years old and he's a hardcore right
Speaker 2: winger and stuff, but he's a father and he loves
Speaker 2: his kid. And there's just no question I knew exactly
Speaker 2: what I was going to read when I clicked on it.
Speaker 2: Did anyone else get caught thinking, oh no, let's just
Speaker 2: go with you know the easy thought here? Absolutely not.
Speaker 2: It led to something really beautiful. James said, he came out.
Speaker 2: That dad saw you know, that he had come out
Speaker 2: and hadn't spoken in a while. You know, he's and
Speaker 2: that James looked at his phone and it was ringing
Speaker 2: over and over again.
Speaker 1: It was it was his dad trying to get through
Speaker 1: to him, and he was like, ah, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: And he finally answers the phone call and his dad said, hey,
Speaker 2: I saw that what you announced, and I just want
Speaker 2: to say, wow, that's why you were so private for
Speaker 2: so many years, and I feel like I better understand
Speaker 2: now why and I support you and the whole thing.
Speaker 2: James was like, oh my god, like he didn't give
Speaker 2: his dad enough credit.
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden they had this amazing connection together.
Speaker 2: And James is looking forward to, you know, getting back
Speaker 2: to Los Angeles so he can go see his dad
Speaker 2: and reconnect. And maybe Angelina will do the same thing.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it's a beautiful little story with
Speaker 2: an ending there.
Speaker 1: And I knew. I just knew that John Boyd wasn't like, ah,
Speaker 1: my gay kid, you know, James came out.
Speaker 2: John said, I finally know who you are. Now I
Speaker 2: understand why you've been so private. James couldn't believe what
Speaker 2: he heard, and now they're going to build a relationship.
Speaker 1: Isn't that the way It's supposed to be? Very beautiful?
Speaker 1: All right? Lindsey Clancy trial is going on.
Speaker 2: More on that tomorrow. We'll keep our eyes and ears
Speaker 2: on everything. Stay with us on social media all the
Speaker 2: way through the weekend. If you haven't hit subscribe on
Speaker 2: Hot MIC's Seat with Billy Bush here on YouTube. Please
Speaker 2: do have an unbelievable day. I'm going to play golf
Speaker 2: this afternoon with a couple of great friends. One of
Speaker 2: them is country music artist Drew Holcombe and also great
Speaker 2: country writer.
Speaker 1: Saw him last night at.
Speaker 2: The Greek Theater and we're playing golf today. He's a
Speaker 2: scratch handicap and a hell of a guitarist and singer.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm doing you.
Speaker 3: Also, you're also going to do updates on the Clancy
Speaker 3: case on Thursday and Friday.
Speaker 1: Probably I'm probably going to put something new.
Speaker 2: Yeah, put up short segments there, maybe like an eight
Speaker 2: or nine minute thing as we stay abreast.
Speaker 1: Okay, love you guys. Have a wonderful day. Tata, we
Speaker 1: out you're doing me right. Might have sharp and another
Speaker 1: compliment there