WEBVTT - Hayden Panettiere: New Details | Lindsay Clancy Defense Takes Control 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:04.400 You're doing me. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:18.640 Another complimentary Hello friends, welcome to Hot MIC's. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:19.080 Here we go. 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:25.000 It is a Wednesday hump day. Please hit subscribe. Listening 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.960 to Harry's song right there, my producer, Harry just tickling 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:28.520 a little. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:34.560 Bit on the guitar because we're gonna launch right in. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.520 Here with Hayden, Pennetier and the latest on that mother 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:45.080 spoke out. Vladimir Klitchko said a lot of really beautiful things. 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.519 But good morning to everybody. Thanks for being with us. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:49.800 Love you. There's Pam. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.880 Keep watching the clip on the beautiful Fragile Flower. Hayden 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.200 was a sweet person, Pam, You are right about that. 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:58.840 God bless everybody who loved her. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:00:59.880 That is true. 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:04.040 Police are currently at the home of the brothers who 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.759 were there when Hayden passed away. 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.200 Richard Master English Dick. Check out Billy's last show if 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:11.640 you missed it. 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.360 Brilliant interview. Thank you English Dick. We love you for 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:19.520 that very much. We interviewed Matt Murphy, longtime Orange County prosecutor. 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:21.760 That has to do with the Clancy trial though, so 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.560 we'll get to that in a second. But yeah, we're 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:34.080 gonna start with Hayden Pannetier mom, Leslie Vogel, reacted. She 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:38.480 called into NBC News. She wishes, she says that Hayden 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:44.120 had chosen a different path in life. Said it was 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:48.080 difficult in Hollywood growing up in that scene. Of course, 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.200 Leslie ironically was the manager. 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.480 Forever and helped her grow up in that scene. 0:01:54.800 --> 0:02:00.440 But as I expected, pivoted to Brian Hickerson, who is 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:06.120 Hayden's on again, off again boyfriend for years, A very toxic, 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:16.080 tumultuous relationship, a deeply troubled individual, she said Leslie Vogel, 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.840 Hayden's mom, said she was not surprised that Brian Hickerson 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.480 was there in the end when she died. 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.400 He was He was there. He and his brother Zach 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:28.679 called nine one one. 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:34.600 NBC reports that Zach was emotional while the EMTs tried 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:40.560 to save Hayden's life. Ryan was not visibly emotional until 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:45.880 she was pronounced dead. They were in an Airbnb in Greenville, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.720 South Carolina. TMZ broke the story that Hayden had a 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:53.359 full bag of medication on her when she died. Her 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:58.640 boyfriend Brian Hickerson shared that with police. The specific medications 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:04.200 were not identified in the police report, but it sounds 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.320 like there were nine different drugs and they were all redacted. 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.320 So there's the report not sharing that yet, probably until 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:13.760 the autopsy is done. 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.119 But Narkhan was found in the apartment. 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:22.160 I mean, who travels with narcan? You got a real 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:29.519 problem if you're doing that. But narcan obviously reverses opioid overdoses, 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.799 so they were you know, I mean, at least there 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.080 was some preparedness. We're going to do some opioids tonight, 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.800 yepe might as well have some mark narkhan with. 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.160 Us in in case we get close to death. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.600 Epinephrine was also used on the scene, which would line 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.600 up with the initial nine to one one call describing 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:56.080 cardiac arrest. Epinephrine helps to address cardiac arrest. TMZ reports 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:03.400 that paramedics trying to resuscitate Hayden using advanced cardiac life support. 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:09.800 Our sources say that this treatment uses special medicines, breathing tubes, 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:14.960 heart rhythm tracking, chest compressions. Of course, but ms was 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.360 called at one fifty one PM and she was pronounced 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.320 dead at two thirty two, so she. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.440 It was relatively quick. 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:29.120 She obviously shares her daughter Kaya with Vladimir Klitschko. 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.479 Who's a hero in all of this. Right. She was 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:33.400 married to Vladimir. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.039 They had a daughter together, but that demon inside of 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:42.200 her drew her to Brian Hickerson in a way from 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:47.440 Vladimir Klitchko. He put up a really thoughtful, beautiful statement 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.120 about her passing. He said, the announcement of Hayden's tragic 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:51.719 death saddens me deeply. 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.040 She left this world far too soon. Hayden was, although 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:55.839 no longer. 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.560 My partner, an important part of my life and the 0:04:57.560 --> 0:04:58.880 mother of our daughter Kaya. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.360 We built an incredible career. 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.680 Through immense talent while also facing the darker sides of 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:15.279 a very demanding industry. I extend my deepest condolences to 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.200 Hayden's parents are friends. I ask everyone to please respect 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.440 our family's feelings and privacy. Thanks to everyone who's supporting 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:28.320 my family and expressing their sincere condolences. 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:32.080 Rest easy, Hayden. May you find eternal peace. 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:36.120 And it is very clear that she could not find 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:37.200 peace in her life. 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.440 It's just so tragic. I knew her, like I said, 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:44.880 and she was just a really great girl. 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.320 She was sweet and her addiction to Brian Hickerson is 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.320 where we need to turn our attention because it was 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:56.120 just it was not good, not healthy, and there is 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.520 no surprise. As soon as I heard that Hayden Bennetier died, 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:01.279 I am immediately. 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.200 Knew that Brian Hickerson was present. 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.279 She talks about her relationship with him in her book, 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.680 which she released in May of twenty twenty six, and 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:16.320 she details the domestic violence incidents multiple that occurred between 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:18.760 the two because, as she said in the book, he 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:20.599 was Doctor Jekyl and mister Hyde. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:23.360 When the alcohol got. 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:28.279 In to his system, he literally became a monster. And 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:34.800 yet he never you know, got clean, and he loved 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:36.880 pulling her in with him. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.640 A little behind the scenes. On Sunday night, you and 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:42.240 I were talking about Monday's show, and in the middle 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:46.080 of that conversation, I got the alert that she had 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.000 passed away. And the first words out of your mouth 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:56.159 were Brian Hickerson. Brian Hickerson, Brian Hickerson. No question, was 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:57.520 there no question? 0:06:58.480 --> 0:06:58.640 You know? 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.400 The irony of the death of Hayden pennetieres that she 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.520 is most famous for playing an indestructible cheerleader on Heroes 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.160 and she was pushed to the brink over and over 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.000 again and ultimately succumbs at thirty six. 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:18.240 Just an interesting point, but Brian is all over the 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:19.400 book for. 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:25.200 His domestic violence and his beatings of Hayden Pennetier. I 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.400 remember he copped to it right when the book came out. 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.040 He was on TMZ Live and he was slurring his words. 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.960 He was talking, you know, just drunk as a skunk. 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.000 In the middle of the day. He told the interviewer, 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:42.160 you know, I wish I'd been taught what domestic violence 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:43.800 was when I was younger. 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.080 Do you do you need to be taught. 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.040 That you don't grab a woman by the throat and 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.360 push her up against the wall, smash her head into 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.120 the wall, and then with an open hand slapper so 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.640 hard her face goes to one hundred and fifty degrees 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.680 and his ringing for the next two days. Do you 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:06.560 need to be taught that that is something you don't do? 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:13.080 Brian was booked on felony domestic assault years ago. 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:15.840 It was a terrible. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.680 Row inside her condominium. He tried to say when the 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:25.000 police got there that she had punched herself repeatedly, and she. 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:32.160 Beyond sad. He pled no contest, and then he told Hayden, 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:32.800 I don't. 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.880 Remember, and I'm so sorry. And this is when he 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:38.080 became sweet again. 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:38.400 Right. 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.960 This is a pattern that all domestic violence victims know. 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.200 They know this over and over again. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.040 Four months later, the DA, I think it was Gascone 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.959 at the time, George Gascone, the worst DA in the 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.280 history of Los Angeles, dropped the charges. He loved to 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:58.439 drop charges on criminals. How do you say soft on crime? 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.640 Despite all he'd done to me, Hayden writes, I still 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:07.120 love the person I thought he was. Oh, someone says, 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:12.360 they can hardly hear you, billy, Why would that be? 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:17.439 My microphone is oh it is something's wrong. You got 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:18.160 the mic pot. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:22.079 No, no, no, no, no, that's not the case, Harry. 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.040 Hello, hello, hello. Oh it is really weak, though. Let's 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:26.920 see if we can bring it up. Hello. Hello, Is 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.760 that any better? Harry? You don't hear that? 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:35.360 I hear fine, it's it's not on my end. I 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:36.000 see nothing. 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.480 I see that the microphone. Let's try and all right, 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.000 let's see what we can do here. We'll speak up 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.800 and tell me if that's a little bit better. Is 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:46.480 that a little bit better? 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:53.520 Yes? Better? Rose, Yes? Better? Thank you? Okay, I'm out. 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:58.240 Doctor Jekyll and mister Hyde. When he was drinking, he 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.600 can flip into a rage instantly. 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:01.120 She wrote. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.280 He was arrested in Los Angeles on that incident because 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.960 he'd beaten the shit out of her multiple times. He's 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.560 six feet tall, he's a big I always wish why 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.439 didn't Vladimir klitch go some. 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.080 He knew what was going on. He must have known. 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:21.319 He saw the fights between the fight, that awful TMZ 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.600 fight that spilled out into the street from a bar 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:30.720 at the Sunset Marquis Hotel. I wish Vladimir Klitchko flew 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:37.240 to the book. He would destroy Hickerson. But of course 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.920 Brian called and begged her not to press charges. She 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.920 did anyway, This was one major time she set up. 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.679 She stood up for herself. Bail was set at three 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:47.840 hundred and twenty grand on the guy. 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.280 Also in that TMZ live interview in May when the 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.920 book came out, he said, Hayden Penetier is the sweetest 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:57.640 thing in the world. She's a Sunday girl, meaning you. 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.040 Saturday nights are for you know oo, but you're the 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.839 one you love is there Sunday. Hayden's one of the 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.360 most talented people I've ever met. I would be an 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.480 idiot not to walk away from her and let her 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:13.600 flourish in her career. We wouldn't be good together. And 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.920 yet you didn't let her walk away and flourish in 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.079 her career because. 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.800 You needed her right. 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.559 Maybe she was what made him feel better about himself, 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:32.720 and whatever disdain he had for her for actually staying 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:37.360 with someone as diminished as him made him violent towards her. 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.040 I don't know here I go armshair psychiatrist, but it's 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.240 the definition of toxic, this relationship between the two. 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:50.240 Klitchko's statement was great. The mother again, Leslie Vogel. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:56.960 They had a terrible falling out. You know, she ultimately 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.920 put it on Hickerson, which is fair because he's no 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.040 doubt a deeply compromised person. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:13.200 Okay, do we have a little sound from Hayden? 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.000 Did we get the Do we have the audio of 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:17.720 Hayden Panetier my friend? 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:18.240 Yeah? 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:19.240 We do. Hang on. 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:20.199 Here comes this. 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:24.800 This is her reading from her book. Listen to this. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.720 This is her talking about the domestic violence incident, what 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:29.120 happened with Brian Hickerson. 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:36.599 It's the only reason to share it now. 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.440 Is because this guy needs to be held to account, 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:43.520 all right, hit it. 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.440 One night, he busts up my face so badly I 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.520 don't leave the house for weeks. Another day, he screams 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.480 at me to run his foot in five seconds because 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.000 I'll need a headstart before he throws a remote control 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:03.840 at me. The remote control hits my face. He stands 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.720 in the doorway of our living room, reaching at me 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.679 to give him my phone. He's afraid I'm calling Vlad 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.000 and then I'll tell Lad about the abuse. I run 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.560 up the stairs and he follows me. You're not getting away, 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:22.880 give me the phone. I turn, flip and fall on 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:27.160 the steps. I look up and there's Brian. Punches rain 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:32.720 down hard. My head hits the wall, and he's straddling me, 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.880 hitting me down using all his weight. Why did you 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:41.520 hit yourself, he screams as I struggle under him. We're 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.880 all bruised. Why did you do that to yourself? I 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.400 break free and run to the living room, toward the 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.480 front door. I grab my keys and phone. I consider 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:56.040 calling nine one one yeat, then the public would know, 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:00.440 and the public can't know. I slammed the door behind me. 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.600 Run to my car. I hear sirens down the street 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.079 and I know my neighbors called nine one one. This 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.480 is out of my hands. The cops have questioned Brian 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:16.120 than me, and I'll have to say the truth. Well, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.760 Brian knows it wasn't me who called the cops. It 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:25.200 was our neighbor. Brian's booked on charges of felony domestic assault. 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:36.400 Wow, that is really hard to listen to. And what's 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:42.680 harder to understand is that she could not leave him 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.480 no matter what, even when she went to rehab for 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:52.000 eight months. She went away for eight months, got herself 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:56.360 totally clean. That's how long it took, and continued on 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:03.400 with him after that. It's devastatingly sad. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:04.200 Um. 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:09.880 Okay, how is my audio now? Are we okay? Do 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.800 we have audio? It looks like I have it on 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.680 my screen. Let's see what the people say. Do I 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.960 have audio? I'm speaking with a basso profundo right now, 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:26.080 a big and powerful bass in the voice. 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.080 Is it good? Thumbs up? Says Kevin's Queen's seventy six. 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:34.320 Thank you my friend? All right? Um, we love you, Hayden, 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:36.840 and we will see what happens. 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.600 And to Brian Hickerson from here, I hope to God 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:42.880 at least he goes and if this doesn't send the 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:44.960 guy to rehab, I don't know what will. 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.760 Okay Clancy. The Lindsay Clancy trial. 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:54.280 Sue Clancy, Lindsay's mother in law, on the stand yesterday. 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.040 She said Lindsay loved her children very very much. 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:02.400 She felt unwell, she was losing her appetite, she was 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.160 begging for help. This is her mother in law. And 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.400 remember this is a grandmother that lost three kits. So 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.240 she has every right to say to side with the 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:19.440 prosecution and hate Lindsey Clancy. But the prosecution is absolutely bombing, 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:21.680 bombing it. 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.680 Is you can smell the stench. They are bombing so bad. 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.760 The cross exam of Sue Clancy was as subtle as 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.400 a sledgehammer, like a bull in a china shop. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.560 These two assistant das. 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.080 Jennifer Spragg, who was at the microphone at the time, 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.960 asked if Susan is a member of the Catholic Church, 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:49.360 and she says yes, I am. And then Spragg says, 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.000 and you're aware that murder is considered a mortal sin. 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.160 Here she is shaming her for being a bad Catholic. Okay. 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:05.960 The judge goes sidebar and pulls Jennifer Spragg over. This 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:11.280 is a government employee violating the First Amendment by asking 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.400 a private citizen on the stand about her religious beliefs 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:20.000 and shaming. There were courtroom gasps, like everybody in there 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.840 was like, oooh, what did she just do? 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:24.399 It was? 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.439 It was I think it was a death sentence for 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.600 them with the jury. Beyond that abomination, the prosecution is 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:37.760 trying to sell the idea that Lindsey Clancy did not 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:42.880 tell doctors about the auditory hallucinations she was. She later 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.720 admitted to she didn't tell them before the deaths because 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.560 she wanted to keep her kids so she could kill 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:55.199 them in a premeditated fashion. Now the prosecution has to 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.280 prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.479 This is a mountain to climb. Truth. 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:05.919 Admitting that your hearing voices is like laying your shame 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.280 out for the world to judge. There is a pressure 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:14.439 all women know about on them on how to handle 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:19.159 it all. Every woman has pressure to be the perfect mom. 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.720 Some comes from other women right in carpool, like, oh 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.320 my god, she can't even handle her kids. 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.320 Look at her. Oh my god, Jesus, she wears the sweatpants. 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:28.400 She doesn't even wash her hair. 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:33.480 My god, everybody's judging, not just from other moms of course. 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:34.919 But just society in general. 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:42.199 There's a competition, there's a judginess, and she could lose 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.680 her nursing license. So is Lindsay Clancy gonna come forward 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:47.320 and be like aoh, I'm hearing voices. 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.520 No, the shame is too deep. 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:56.360 On redirect the Amazing Attorney Kevin Reddington asked Sue Clancy 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.240 about options that were presented to Lindsay and she said 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.280 one was the Women in Infants Hospital in Rhode Island. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.840 They took her there. This is one of three hospitals 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:08.840 she went to. She said. 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:13.240 Lindsay was turned away because she was over medicated and 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.040 called suicide hotlines twice, so they were like, yeah, we 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.359 can't help you, Jesus, isn't that what you're supposed to do. 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.359 Doctor Donald Kandy took the stand. Child and Adolescent and 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:29.320 adult psychiatrist. He testified and confirmed this that she was 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.919 discharged from Women in Infants Hospital in Rhode Island after 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:38.080 seeking treatment. The records stated hospital staff believe she was 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:45.359 experiencing complications from medication, not necessarily postpartum depression, making her 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:46.400 a bad candidate. 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.160 For the program Oh My God. 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.480 And then doctor Condy reviewed the records of this very 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.560 young psychiatrist who was thirty two years old and had 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:58.720 only been on the job one month at the time 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:04.880 she started seeing Lindsey Clancy, Jennifer Tuffs. He reviewed her 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.560 records and said, they are somewhat sparse. There are many 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.840 checkboxes in the records, but not a great deal of 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.560 sentences that describe what was done during the sessions. And 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.960 this is exactly what Reddington did the other day when 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:21.560 he was when the prosecution was in charge. Reddington cross 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.439 examined Douc you know, Jennifer Tufts, and was like, excuse me, 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:25.840 you have dropped down. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:27.720 Menus like how are you feeling today? 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:28.119 Good? 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:32.120 Bad, in between check like this is what a psychiatrist does. 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:32.320 Know. 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.040 I went to a psychiatrist and he recorded every session 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.440 so he could listen back and take copious notes and build. 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:42.080 A very deep file on me. 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.040 Not a drop down menu that says good, bad or ugly. 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.800 I mean really bad, really really bad. 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.200 And I think this goes beyond Jennifer Tuffs. 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:55.679 The Astor Mental Health, which is the company for whom 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:01.960 Jennifer Tuffs worked, aimed in the civil suit which is coming, 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.720 the civil suit that Lindsay. Lindsay's lawyer, by the way, 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:11.040 Rosemary Skipechio Woo, She's got a reputation in the Boston 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:15.000 area as an absolute badlander, like she is tough, she 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:19.359 is feared, and she will be going after all these people. 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:24.200 But Donald Condy, Doctor Condy on the stand recalls that 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.080 Jennifer Tuff's prescribed Zoloft to. 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.080 Lindsay, starting at twenty five milligrams. 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.040 And then going up to fifty, doubling it, and that's 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.280 when the sleeplessness hit like a hammer and Lindsay got 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:41.560 insomnia for forty eight hours straight, couldn't sleep. He said, 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.480 that's called activation, and it's I think most of us know, 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:49.080 it's a pretty good indication that you shouldn't be on 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:53.600 this medication. You've got something else, like an underlying major 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.760 mood disorder like a bipolar if you have that type 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:02.160 of reaction to an SSRI like zola. At another point, 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:06.600 they bring up doctor Paul Zeisel, a clinical forensic psychologist. 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.159 He's actually on the stand right now as we speak. 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:14.120 In day sixteen, he reported that Lindsay told him that 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.480 she this is big. He reported Lindsay told him that 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:21.840 she had heard a male voice ordering her, telling her 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.000 that she didn't have any choice. She had to kill 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:31.800 her children and then kill herself. He said, Clancy only 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:37.400 had auditory hallucinations, which can be experienced like waves at 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:37.879 the beach. 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:43.160 They come and they go. Lindsay felt that people could 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.080 actually hear her thoughts. 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:48.840 He said that her thoughts were so loud that strangers 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:51.959 could hear them. Now, remember she's saying this after she 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.480 had killed the kids, but she thought that teachers at 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:59.960 school could hear her thoughts. This goes back to the shame. 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.720 This is a woman in postpartum psychosis. 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:06.200 You can't expect her to be like, ah, gigs up, 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:06.680 you know what. 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.720 Now I should probably, you know, go and share the 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:11.000 fact that I'm hearing voices. 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:12.800 You know, this is the shame. 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:17.240 There's not sympathy and love and outreach for someone who 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.760 says I'm hearing voices. There's oh my god, they're crazy, 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:22.880 That's what there is. 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:26.640 There's gossip, there's judgment. 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:31.479 So English Dick earlier put up a nice comment on 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:34.560 the screen. He said, you know, to check out the 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:38.160 interview I posted yesterday with Matt Murphy. 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:39.639 I hope you do. 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:44.600 If you're following the Clancy trial. Matt Murphy's outstanding. I 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:49.000 was well prepared. We had a good, really good conversation 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:53.760 about it. Matt's was in the Orange County Prosecutor's office, 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:56.760 in the DA's office as a prosecutor for twenty years 0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:01.159 three in child crime, and then he spent seventeen years 0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:04.520 in the homicide unit. The man has prosecuted a lot 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:08.240 of bad people. He's watching this, he's grading the prosecution 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.640 and the defense. He's got a really good take. Let's 0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:15.840 go with SOT two, Harry. He makes a prediction here 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:17.440 of what happens. 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:21.000 There's cases that I have really strong opinions about. This 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.960 is one where I really don't. It's a horrible case. 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:28.440 But I can tell you right now, I can call 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:30.520 this shot. The jury's gonna come back and find her 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:33.600 legally insane. If I had to guess that's what's going 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.920 to happen, Bang. 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:43.679 That's the call right there. Then Matt and I talked 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:50.600 about well, we talked about the performance prosecution versus defense. 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:55.000 Harry. Let's take a look at SOT three here from 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:57.880 Matt Murphy, Massachusetts. 0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:00.639 The final prong is called the control fool prong, and 0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:03.640 that is they're suffering from a mental disease or defect, 0:25:04.200 --> 0:25:06.600