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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, The wife of a beloved

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Speaker 1: doctor faces death at a sheer cliff's edge on a

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Speaker 1: romantic getaway. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: After relocating from Pennsylvania to Maui, annisteesiologist doctor Gerhard Konig

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Speaker 2: plans a romantic birthday getaway for his wife on the

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Speaker 2: rocky cliffs of Oahu Hooi.

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Speaker 1: Facing death on a sheer cliff on a romantic getaway?

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine the terror she felt that must have

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Speaker 1: coursed through her body looking down at a great height

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Speaker 1: on a very narrow trail. Joining me an all star

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Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we know now?

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Speaker 3: But who are these people? Listen?

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Speaker 4: Gerhard Konig, an anesthesiologist and professor at the University of

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Speaker 4: Pittsburgh Medical Center, falls head over heels for nuclear power

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Speaker 4: plant project engineer Aril. Despite their ten year age gap,

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Speaker 4: Gerhart and Ril are married in twenty eighteen, have their

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Speaker 4: first baby boy in twenty twenty, and another two years later.

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Speaker 4: In twenty twenty three, The couple decides to follow one

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Speaker 4: of Gerhart's dreams and move from Pennsylvania to Maui.

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Speaker 3: Hawaii.

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Speaker 4: Gerhart becomes a partner at the Anesthesia Medical Group and

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Speaker 4: frequently works at Maui Memorial Medical Center, while Ril retains

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Speaker 4: her job at Tara Power.

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Speaker 1: Again joining us an all star Panueld makes sense of

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Speaker 1: what we are learning, what happened on.

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Speaker 3: That narrow path on the.

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Speaker 1: Drop of a sheer cliff's edge, straight out to special

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Speaker 1: guests joining me four time Emmy Award winning Anchor Investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter at Hawaii News now joining us Mahealani Richardson.

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Speaker 3: Mahalani, thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: First of all, tell me about this cliff, the sheer drop.

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Speaker 1: You know, my husband is afraid hines. He can't even

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Speaker 1: look down, he can't ride a Ferris whale nothing.

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Speaker 5: So tell me about this location. Well, this location is

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Speaker 5: off the Puly Lookout. It is one of the most

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Speaker 5: popular destinations on the island of Oahu besides Diamond Head.

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Speaker 5: And the reason being is on the island of Oahu,

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Speaker 5: it is just fifteen minutes away from downtown Honolulu. So

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Speaker 5: the trail that they went on is up the Pullpuka Trail.

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Speaker 5: It is an off limits trail. The State of Hawaii

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Speaker 5: does not sanction people to go there, but it is

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Speaker 5: still popular and you can see those cliffs. It has

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Speaker 5: a wide sweeping view of Windward, Oahu. And when people

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Speaker 5: go up this very narrow, very dangerous trail, at the

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Speaker 5: top of it is a pukah, a hole. It is

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Speaker 5: six feet wide and people can see through the mountain

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Speaker 5: like a window to Windward, oh Ahu. And why so

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Speaker 5: many people like to go there?

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining US, high profile psychoanalyst out of

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Speaker 1: la author of deal Breaker, and you can see her

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Speaker 1: now on peacock. She's at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Thrill

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Speaker 1: seekers Why did.

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Speaker 3: They do it?

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Speaker 1: But let me just say the wife did not want

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Speaker 1: to do this. She did not want to go on

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Speaker 1: that narrow trail. But what is it about thrill seekers?

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Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall. You and I talked about

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Speaker 1: this when it happened. We took the children to Gatorland

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Speaker 1: to see Old Florida. My son wanted to zip cord

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Speaker 1: across very high up across a big lake full of gators.

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Speaker 3: I mean my head. It was going off like one

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Speaker 3: of those arcade games.

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Speaker 1: No, I didn't let him, and it's very hard for

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Speaker 1: me to say no to John David. But the thrill,

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Speaker 1: why the people want that thrill?

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Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, There's a drive that we actually share

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Speaker 6: in common with all mammals, and it's kind of like

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Speaker 6: a foraging drive. It's like when you want to go

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Speaker 6: out explore the world, have adventures, learn new and amazing things.

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Speaker 6: It is something that we all have, and some people

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Speaker 6: are just able to switch that switch on and enjoy

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Speaker 6: it and explore the world. But in this case, I

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Speaker 6: look at this as a beautiful, beautiful setting. But gosh,

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Speaker 6: I would be really careful on a trail like that,

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Speaker 6: especially since the public is not even supposed.

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Speaker 1: To go there, Doctor Bethany, there is a big difference

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Speaker 1: and me wanting to take the twins to see new

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Speaker 1: and different things like Yosemite, the Arch in Saint Louis,

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Speaker 1: the Lewis and Clark Trail, the Great Confluence of the

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Speaker 1: Mighty Mississippi and the Muddy Missouri, and risking your life,

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Speaker 1: risking your life, I mean, you just heard Mayolani Richardson

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Speaker 1: state that this is off limits, that the government, the

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Speaker 1: state does not sanction anybody going on this trail. Here

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Speaker 1: she ends up facing death on that narrow trail is

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Speaker 1: exactly what they said, don't do.

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Speaker 6: But Nancy, now you're going to get me on my

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Speaker 6: favorite topic, which is sociopathy. And if this alleged crime

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Speaker 6: is true, I don't know completely what happened on that trail.

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Speaker 6: Is that people who fall into this personality disorder have

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Speaker 6: a lot of inner emptiness in boredom, so they seek

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Speaker 6: out stimulating activities. They like to break the law, they

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Speaker 6: like to have.

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Speaker 7: Heights they like.

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Speaker 6: They won't just ski down a mountain, they will helicopter ski,

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Speaker 6: they'll jump out of a helicopter. So the more that

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Speaker 6: they can push the limits, the more alive they feel.

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Speaker 6: So I'm curious about this population who's actually trespassing and

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Speaker 6: breaking the law and hiking in this particular spot. I

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Speaker 6: wouldn't want to go there, and if I were the wife,

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Speaker 6: I'd be quite suspicious of it was somebody who has

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Speaker 6: a medical license but is actually trespassing on public property.

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Speaker 1: I've got a very strong feeling, Philip, do you Bay

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Speaker 1: joining me? High profile defense attorney joining us out of

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Speaker 1: the California jurisdiction, Philip Dubay, I don't think the beloved

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Speaker 1: doctor dragged his wife up the side of that mountain

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Speaker 1: in Hawaii just for thrills. So how can you look

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Speaker 1: at a jury and say he was just.

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Speaker 3: Adventurous b s. I can't wait to hear this.

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Speaker 7: I'm not aware of any evidence that he took her

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Speaker 7: off the trail. This is a very heavily foot traffic

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Speaker 7: area where there are witnesses glore. You cannot believe how

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Speaker 7: many people from all over the world are at the

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Speaker 7: New Uanu poly lookout point. And it's not there just

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Speaker 7: to craft a place to commit the perfect homicide, but

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Speaker 7: rather it's a panoramic viewpoint that is available on everything.

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Speaker 3: Shut him up.

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Speaker 1: I cannot believe Dubay just managed to work into the

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Speaker 1: Senate's panoramic viewpoint.

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Speaker 3: I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he dragged his wife up there to

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Speaker 1: take her off the trail. I think he dragged her

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Speaker 1: up there to throw her off the trail. I mean,

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Speaker 1: can you look at me, Dobay with a straight face

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Speaker 1: and argue that was not his intent.

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Speaker 3: She didn't want to go up there, she didn't want

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Speaker 3: to take the trail.

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Speaker 1: She tried to hang on to a tree for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 1: according to what we have learned.

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Speaker 3: But no, he insisted on a selfie at the sheer.

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Speaker 1: Drop at the edge of the path on a cliff

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Speaker 1: up there in the clouds, Philip Dubay.

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Speaker 3: She didn't want to go.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, but somehow she managed to get up there. I

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Speaker 7: sincerely doubt that they're going to be able to prove

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Speaker 7: beyond a reasonable doubt that he was holding her by

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Speaker 7: the collar, by the back of the neck and just

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Speaker 7: dragging her all the way up. I don't know how

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Speaker 7: many thousands of feet just so we could knock her

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Speaker 7: off diamond head there. It's ridiculous. I think that when

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Speaker 7: the jury has the opportunity to flesh out the facts,

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Speaker 7: they're going to see that this is poetry in motion

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Speaker 7: and that he's not an octopus.

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Speaker 3: Well did you just call this poetry in motion? Did

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Speaker 3: he say that?

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Speaker 1: Okay, you did say this is poetry in motion? Then

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Speaker 1: how in the hay does she get her head totally

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Speaker 1: bashed in?

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Speaker 3: This is a yes note. Did you just call this

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Speaker 3: poetry in motion?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 1: With a capital y again joining me in All Star panel,

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Speaker 1: Let me go straight out to Bill Hernandez, Domestic Violence

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Speaker 1: sex assault Detective, California. Never a lack of business in

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Speaker 1: that jurisdiction.

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Speaker 3: Bill, Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: You know, very often Bill, in situations like this, we

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Speaker 1: see the wife going along with all the husband's hair

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Speaker 1: brained ideas to placate the husband.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: This is an example a true I've given many many times.

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Speaker 1: This is not from court when I prosecuted felonies. This

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Speaker 1: is from volunteer work at the Battered Women's Center. I

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Speaker 1: had a very well connected executive, a corporate executive, call

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Speaker 1: home to his battered wife. She was also the perfect

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Speaker 1: wife and tell her he was bringing people home.

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Speaker 3: To make Mexican food. She made tacos.

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Speaker 1: He beat her into a coma because she didn't make enchiladas.

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Speaker 1: This woman would jump through hoops whatever the husband wanted

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Speaker 1: to avoid a beating, to placate.

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Speaker 3: Him, whatever the demand or the requests might be, just

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Speaker 3: in order to keep the peace.

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Speaker 1: They had children. She didn't want the children to see this.

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Speaker 1: She didn't want the children to know what was going on.

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Speaker 1: He would take the phones out of the cords out

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Speaker 1: of the wall, very off of what he would leave

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Speaker 1: for work. And this was a very educated woman, much

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Speaker 1: like the victim in this case, Bill Hernandez. So when

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Speaker 1: the husband takes her for a romantic getaway, this wealthy

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Speaker 1: doctor and assists they go on this trail together on

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Speaker 1: the special day. That day, of course she went along.

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Speaker 1: She didn't want to cause a scene or a problem.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen that happen?

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Speaker 3: Bill?

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Speaker 8: Absolutely, It's all about course of control and power control

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Speaker 8: and that type of relationship. And quite often I see

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Speaker 8: this on a daily basis whenever I'm doing in my investigations.

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Speaker 8: Is all this power control that these people exert over

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Speaker 8: their spouses, and the spouses want to really make the

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Speaker 8: home safe and calm and comfortable. But yet you know

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Speaker 8: they've got to do all these things in order to

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Speaker 8: make this other person happy, which is seemingly never able

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Speaker 8: to happen.

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Speaker 1: You're right, Bill, it's never enough. It never makes the

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Speaker 1: spouse happy the partner. It's a circle. It's a circle.

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Speaker 1: You have the blow up where the beating or the

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Speaker 1: abuse occurs. It could be sex abuse, it could be

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Speaker 1: a marital rape, it could just be a regular old

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Speaker 1: fashioned beating. Then there is the honeymoon phase where the

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Speaker 1: attacker tries to make up, tries to assume normalcy. It's

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Speaker 1: called the sweetheart phase. Then tension begins, building, building, building building.

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Speaker 1: There could be verbal assaults, brooding, a palpable anger in

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Speaker 1: the air until the blow up and the next attack,

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Speaker 1: and then it happens over and over and over. Very complicated.

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Speaker 1: Now you know what's interesting. Straight back out to Mahealani

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Speaker 1: Richardson joining us from Hawaii News.

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Speaker 3: Now, Mahealani, this.

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Speaker 1: Victim has been called, was called the perfect wife, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: a great mother, and just.

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Speaker 3: The icing on the cake. Isn't she a nuclear engineer? Yes,

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Speaker 3: highly educated Nancy.

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Speaker 9: And that's why domestic violence experts are saying that this

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Speaker 9: really defies stereotypes. That's what they've told me in interviews.

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Speaker 9: Highly educated, both of them. Their friends have told her

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Speaker 9: what you news now that they were completely shocked by

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Speaker 9: this incident and to see this blow up on the

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Speaker 9: news because what they had seen, especially their housekeeper who

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Speaker 9: had just seen them the week before. She said that

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Speaker 9: doctor Koenig was pleasant, he was respectful, he was quiet.

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Speaker 9: She thought that he was that way because he's a

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Speaker 9: very busy doctor. An Ariel a sweet one, a lovely woman.

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Speaker 9: They were both very gentle and kind to the kids.

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Speaker 9: So what it seemed to be a perfect family. And

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Speaker 9: that's why people cannot believe that this happened.

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Speaker 3: You know, another thing.

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Speaker 1: To the outside world, they appeared to be a perfect couple,

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Speaker 1: and all of the friends there are inner circle actually

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Speaker 1: said that they weren't just happy, but that he outwardly

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Speaker 1: doubted upon her.

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Speaker 3: What does that mean?

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Speaker 10: Mahealani, the domestic violence experts that we've talked to had said,

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Speaker 10: this is why this is so unbelievable, because people have

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Speaker 10: images and thoughts about doctors.

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Speaker 3: They are supposed to be trusted.

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Speaker 9: They take an oath to do no harm, and so

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Speaker 9: that's why it defies all expectations. And as for Ariel, again,

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Speaker 9: she is a highly educated woman. We know that she

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Speaker 9: fought back during this incident. She refused to be pushed

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Speaker 9: off this cliff.

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Speaker 2: Alboy should have been a romantic birthday retreat. Doctor Conan

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Speaker 2: urges his wife Ariel to take a seemingly innocent selfie

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Speaker 2: at the edge of the nw a Wanu Pailey lookout,

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Speaker 2: but her gut.

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Speaker 1: Tells there's something's off. Couple's therapy. We find out the

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Speaker 1: two had been in couple's therapy for months. There we

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Speaker 1: see the first crack in the relationship that something is wrong.

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Speaker 1: But you would thank doctor Bethany Marshall if they're both

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Speaker 1: committed to couple's therapy.

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Speaker 3: They want to save the marriage.

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Speaker 6: You know, not necessarily, because when I see couples like

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Speaker 6: this in treatment, often the perpetrator will try to have

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Speaker 6: power over me, So it's a very difficult treatment setting.

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Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, she might have been so adept at

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Speaker 6: making his world okay that they look like to the

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Speaker 6: perfect couple to everybody from the outside. She may have

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Speaker 6: just been very good at pleasing him, not upsetting him.

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Speaker 6: Women like this tend to have a sixth sense sense.

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Speaker 6: They just know when the other person's going to get upset, So,

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Speaker 6: you know, she I think there could have been a

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Speaker 6: type of passivity that he exploited, even though she was

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Speaker 6: a very powerful person in her professional life.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that it's a sixth sense, doctor Bethany.

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Speaker 1: It may be an intuition, but I think when you've

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Speaker 1: lived through it so many times that it's like muscle memory.

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Speaker 1: You know instinctively things are about to blow. Because you've

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Speaker 1: been through it so many times, you know instinctively the

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Speaker 1: warning signs. But I mean, having lived through so much

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Speaker 1: abuse we're now learning I don't know what led her

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Speaker 1: to agree to go up the side of that sheer

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Speaker 1: cliff where she looks down facing death, and this after

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Speaker 1: a brutal beating with a rock.

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Speaker 3: To her skull. You know another thing.

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Speaker 1: Straight back out to Philip Dubay, veteran trial lawyer joining

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Speaker 1: us from the LA jurisdiction.

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Speaker 3: Did you hear what we last reported?

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Speaker 1: He had it all set up, the romantic vacation, having

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Speaker 1: family members, the children.

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Speaker 3: Relatives stay away.

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Speaker 1: This was a celebration for her thirty six birthday, and

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Speaker 1: he drags her up that cliff on her birthday, but

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Speaker 1: he made sure nobody else was around. He wanted quality

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Speaker 1: alone time translation no witnesses, Dubate, I mean when maya

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Speaker 1: husband says, hey, let's.

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Speaker 3: Go x, I want to take the children.

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Speaker 1: I've been taking trips with him since college. I'm fine,

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Speaker 1: We've been on plenty of trips. I want to be

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Speaker 1: with the children. But no, he didn't want the boys

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Speaker 1: to come along. Have you thought that through, Dubay?

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Speaker 7: Of course I have, but it's still a heavily visited

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Speaker 7: too out path and trail. You got people from all

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Speaker 7: over the world there, and to suggest it merely because.

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Speaker 3: I didn't ask you that well, I asked you, why

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Speaker 3: didn't you want the boys? To come.

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Speaker 7: The reason why is because it's a weekend away. Just

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Speaker 7: it's a date night, if you will, a date get

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Speaker 7: away weekend, so you don't want to have to deal

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Speaker 7: with the kids. They have a very fancy life. They

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Speaker 7: can afford Anna away for a couple of days and

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Speaker 7: if they're trying to work on the marial with the kids.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you, Philip debate, do you get children

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Speaker 1: not yet? Well, let me tell you, when you have

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Speaker 1: children and you love your children, you want to be

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Speaker 1: with them. I wish that happiness for you. You know,

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Speaker 1: deal with them. This would be a great trip for

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Speaker 1: the boys. But no, he wants to get.

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Speaker 3: Her off to himself.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not going to get a straight answer

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Speaker 1: out of you, really, Hernandez. He's clearly isolating her away

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Speaker 1: from the family so he can get her alone and

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Speaker 1: throw her off that clip.

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Speaker 3: It's so obvious.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely, this was a planned, meticulously planned attack. It wasn't

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Speaker 8: appear to be a moment of rage. I mean, they're

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Speaker 8: right at the hike. There was a lot of dangerous cliffs.

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Speaker 8: He planned it. He took her away from the family,

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Speaker 8: he isolated her on this dangerous cliff, and it was

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Speaker 8: obviously planned from the.

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Speaker 1: Beginning, obviously planned, and there's more to it than that.

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Speaker 1: In addition to the throwing off the cliff scheme, he

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Speaker 1: also took with him while what a coinky dink, he

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Speaker 1: happened to have a syringe full of clear liquid with him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not premeditated, But I want to focus on the

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Speaker 1: fact that he isolates her away from her family, away

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Speaker 1: from her parents, away from her children, the things she

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Speaker 1: loved the most, gets her along on this cliff not

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Speaker 1: the first time. What is it about a romantic getaway

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Speaker 1: that inspires murder?

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Speaker 3: Listen?

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Speaker 2: Christy Chen and Robert Dawson married in February, but waited

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Speaker 2: five months to take the honeymoon of a lifetime in Fiji.

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Speaker 2: The couple chose the luxurious Turtle Island Resort, an exclusive,

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Speaker 2: secluded locale with prices that run thousands of dollars a night.

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Speaker 2: Resort staff said the couple drank and partied on the

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Speaker 2: beach with other guests, but then the couple argued over

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Speaker 2: Daustin's flirtatious dancing with someone else. The Dawsons then left

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Speaker 2: the party, but their argument continued back to their private bungalow.

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Speaker 2: Guests next door said they hurt, arguing a loud scream

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Speaker 2: and then silence. Chen was found slumped in the tiny

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Speaker 2: space between the toilet and the wall of the bathroom

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Speaker 2: and their bungalow, covered in blood. The lid of the

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Speaker 2: toilet cistern was cracked and broken.

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Speaker 1: He immediately tries to leave the jurisdiction there at Turtle Island,

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Speaker 1: I've been told it's one of the most beautiful places

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Speaker 1: in the world. This after they're both drinking, get inebriated

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Speaker 1: on the beach and she's dancing, and that makes him

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Speaker 1: that angry. Doctor Bethany Marshall, I consider that just an

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Speaker 1: excuse anger. She didn't sleep with anyone, she didn't kiss anyone,

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Speaker 1: she didn't hold anybody's hand.

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Speaker 3: Nothing like that.

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Speaker 1: Everybody was dancing and she was dancing, and that was

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Speaker 1: his excuse to start beating her. They're only five months

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Speaker 1: into the marriage, for Pete's sake.

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Speaker 6: But you know, Nancy abusers are often very disregulated, meaning

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Speaker 6: that they will have some small perception like oh, she's

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Speaker 6: flirting with somebody else, and then that turns into like

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Speaker 6: a massive internal earthquake, and then they can't self regulate,

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Speaker 6: and it's like their brains go offline. So I'm not

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Speaker 6: trying to say this isn't premeditated. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 6: they are not to mix my metaphors, but they're always

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Speaker 6: about to just boil over and they notoriously have very

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Speaker 6: poor impulse control.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, Bill Hernandez joining me,

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Speaker 1: domestic sex assault expert, detective in California, And Bill, have

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Speaker 1: you ever noticed, and I'm using men as the example

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Speaker 1: because typically, and by a large majority, they're the attacker.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever noticed when the man an abusive relationship

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Speaker 1: is cheating, he then blames his wife his partner, of

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Speaker 1: cheating when she's not. It's kind of like a guilty conscience,

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Speaker 1: and then they project that onto the woman and use

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Speaker 1: it as an excuse to beat them.

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Speaker 8: I see that happen quite often. They often project whatever

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Speaker 8: they're doing onto their partner and then, you know, use

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Speaker 8: that as an excuse for their outburst, whether it be

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Speaker 8: violent or verbal.

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to imagine what Ariel felt, what went

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Speaker 1: through her mind after fighting off a syringe attack. We

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Speaker 1: think after being bludgeoned in the face and head with

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Speaker 1: a rock, then looking at death on the edge of

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Speaker 1: that cliff something about vacations and so called romantic getaways.

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Speaker 3: What about Kenneth and Christy.

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Speaker 2: Kenneth and Christy Manzanarus are living the American dream, high

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Speaker 2: school sweethearts. They're married with three daughters. The Manzanares are

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Speaker 2: joined by Christie's brothers and parents on an Alaskan family

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Speaker 2: cruise aboard the Emerald Princess Cruise ship. Other passengers aboard

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Speaker 2: here screaming and see Kenneth Manzanares running in the hall

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Speaker 2: covered in blood. At first, passengers think the commotion is

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Speaker 2: part of a murder mystery dinner taking place about the

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Speaker 2: same time. Then one of the three Manzanaras girls begs

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Speaker 2: for help, saying their mom and dad had a fight.

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Speaker 2: Christy Manzanarius, also bloody, is dead. Kenneth Manzanares tries to

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Speaker 2: drag the body to the ship's railing. A witness grabbed

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Speaker 2: Christi by the ankle and pulls her back in the room.

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Speaker 2: Kenneth's told the witness she wouldn't stop laughing at me,

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Speaker 2: and told the FBI, my life is over.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Mahealani Richardson joining us from Hawaii News.

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Speaker 3: Now Mahealani in this case.

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Speaker 1: That we just discussed Kenneth and Christie Manzanis, she was

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Speaker 1: laughing at something her husband did or said, and he

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Speaker 1: used that as an excuse to begin meeting her and

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Speaker 1: kill her.

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Speaker 3: With the children in the next room.

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Speaker 1: On another romantic getaway, the children raised the alarm. That

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Speaker 1: night on the cruise ship, they were having a murder

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Speaker 1: mystery dinner, and witnesses thought this was part of the production,

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Speaker 1: but it was a real murder. Then he tries to

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Speaker 1: drag her body to the edge of the cruise ship

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Speaker 1: and get rid of it. Now, in that case, Kenneth

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Speaker 1: Manzaneis stated she wouldn't quit laughing at me, and that

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Speaker 1: was his excuse for killing her. In this case that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about now, the beloved doctor and the perfect wife,

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Speaker 1: he accused her of having a.

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Speaker 3: Sex affair, which I don't believe happened.

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Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, that's what she says in documents, And what

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Speaker 9: was really interesting is that she says that he accused

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Speaker 9: her of having an extramarital affair. She also says that

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Speaker 9: in the months leading up to this incident that he

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Speaker 9: sexually assaulted and abused her. And so we have been

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Speaker 9: learning that there is a history of abuse, just bits

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Speaker 9: of information, a history of abuse before this terrible incident.

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Speaker 2: Harryel Konig hesitates to take a selfie with her husband

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Speaker 2: so close to the edge of Hawaii's Nuawanu Pley Cliffs.

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Speaker 3: Her instincts proved right as.

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Speaker 1: We go to air tonight, chilling details emerging about the

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Speaker 1: day a so called beloved and wealthy doctor lures his

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Speaker 1: perfect wife to a sheer cliff in Hawaii over her

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Speaker 1: objection she did not want to go on the trail again.

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Speaker 1: Is this something about romantic getaways that inspires murder, the

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Speaker 1: murder very often of someone's wife, the mother of their children,

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Speaker 1: or is that part of the plan. For instance, doctor

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Speaker 1: Scott Roston.

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Speaker 11: Doctor Scott Roston and his bride honeymoon aboard the cruise

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Speaker 11: ships Star Dancer three am, Roston reports his wife has

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Speaker 11: gone overboard. At first, he says she has been blown

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Speaker 11: off the jogging track. He then says he recalls Karen

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Speaker 11: falling overboard as he tries without success to catch her.

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Speaker 11: Ship's crew report Rosston has triangular gouges on his face

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Speaker 11: in a four inch scratch. When Karen's body is found

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Speaker 11: thirty miles southwest of San Diego. There are signs of

439
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 11: hemorrhage in her neck and eyes, and her neck bones

440
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 11: have evidence of manual strangulation. Rawston tries one more far

441
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 11: fetched explanation, saying Israeli agents killed Karen because of a

442
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 11: book he published. Broston has been convicted in Karen's death.

443
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: Good gravy, Philip Debay.

444
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: First, he says, his wife, and this is on their honeymoon,

445
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: was quote blown off the cruise ship's jogging track.

446
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 3: First of all.

447
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 1: Then he says, Israeli agents killed her because of a

448
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: book he published.

449
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 3: What defense attorney told him to say that?

450
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 7: Well, did it ever occur to anybody that it's true?

451
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 7: Have you ever been on that?

452
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: Of course it never occurred to me that is really

453
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: agous killed.

454
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 3: Her because of his book? No, that never crossed my mind.

455
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 7: Of course, not because you want to give the defense

456
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 7: the shaft, that's why. But did it ever occur to you?

457
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 7: The truth is stranger than fiction at times, that's his defense.

458
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 7: Let him put it.

459
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 3: Up, starting to believe it right now?

460
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, let's let a jury decide rather than

461
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 7: exclude it. Yes, it might be they did. They convicted him,

462
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 7: but sometimes that's all you got. And in the defense world.

463
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 7: You're just glad to even have something to say at times.

464
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 7: And if that's what he said, the jury didn't buy it,

465
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 7: then you'll let the chips fall where they may. Unfortunate.

466
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 3: I can't believe it. You actually spoke the truth. Debay. Sure,

467
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 3: I guess even a.

468
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: Dumpster gets a stake once in a while. Now, wait

469
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: a minute. Did you start your explanation by asking me,

470
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: have I ever gone jogging on a cruise ship.

471
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 7: Or just been on a cruise ship? Let me tell

472
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 7: you what You're a yes, many.

473
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: Many times, specifically Disney cruises.

474
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 7: You get some pretty powerfuls. You get some powerful yes.

475
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: I've jogged and walked on a cruise ship on their

476
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: jogging trail with my daughter, who weighs about eighty pounds,

477
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: and never once did I fear the wind was going to.

478
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 3: Blow her overboard?

479
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: What like Mary, Papa's just take off with an umbrella,

480
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: and you know, nor did I fear Israeli ages We're

481
00:27:58,920 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: going to shoot us at in.

482
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 7: I understand, and I'm telling you it was a fantastical

483
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 7: fact pattern. And whether or not a jury bisea that's

484
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 7: the issue. And he lost. I understand that, but it's

485
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 7: not to say that a person could not relate, particularly

486
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 7: those who have been on cruises before, that there are strong,

487
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 7: heavy winds on the top deck. Remember that scene from

488
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 7: The Titanic, you see the couple out there holding their arms.

489
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 3: Out that it's not real. That was a movie.

490
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 7: Oh, of course, nothing is real if you need it

491
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 7: in real life. Okay, but it's certainly based on.

492
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 3: We even know what that meant.

493
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,479
Speaker 1: Nothing's real if you need it in real life.

494
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: Ps.

495
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: We researched and it came out at trial the winds

496
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: were five miles an hour.

497
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: Okay, well not really a nor' easter.

498
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 7: You can be impeached with an almanac.

499
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: Yes you can, but say you've got it bass Ackwards.

500
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: The defense said that not me. They did and they

501
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: were impeached. You know what, I'm not getting anywhere with you.

502
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: Let's go to Emily jan Schwartz just twenty two.

503
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 12: Emily Jean Swartz twenty two, is reported missing after her

504
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 12: husband Joseph for Lazzo, returns from the couple's anniversary trip

505
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 12: without her. For Lozo says he and Emily argue and

506
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 12: she storms off. After a lengthy police interrogation, for Laso

507
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 12: admits that while Emily is lying on the bed in

508
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 12: their converted travel bus. He grabs his glock handgun and

509
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 12: shoots her in the head twice for Loazzo then uses

510
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 12: a handsaw to dismember the body, placing parts in garbage

511
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 12: bags in the camper.

512
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: Debai, Did he think nobody would notice that they go

513
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: on an anniversary trip and it comes back without her?

514
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: It's like Brian laundry. Yeah, where's Gabby?

515
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 13: What?

516
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: She was right there in the Ford transit when we

517
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: took off across the country.

518
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: What happened?

519
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's going to have to come up with some

520
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 7: kind of a story as to how she came to

521
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 7: her to minds at the hands of somebody else, or

522
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 7: by accident or natural causes. But not once it will

523
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 7: he point the finger at himself. But he will have

524
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 7: some type of an explanation. And what could it be?

525
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 7: Who knows? Maybe she took off on her own, you know,

526
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 7: or maybe she slipped in Faalfell and her life somehow,

527
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 7: or maybe he, in the fact, had a hand in it.

528
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 7: But is that proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he

529
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 7: snuffed her out. It's not enough evidence, you know.

530
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: I'm very curious about why these attacks on why spouse's

531
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: girlfriends happen on romantic occasions like the anniversary, like the honeymoon.

532
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: But joining me right now before I throw that to

533
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: our renowned shrink doctor Bethany a special guest now joining

534
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: us doctor Catherine Hannan, chief reconstructive plastic surgery at Veterans

535
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: Affairs Medical Center in DC. Now, I guarantee you she's

536
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: seen a lot of reconstructive surgery at Veterans Affairs, owner

537
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: of Washington Women Plastic Surgery. Well, hold on, doctor Hannon,

538
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: Were you were there when the attempt occurred.

539
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 13: I was on a spring break with my family on

540
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 13: who actually staying on the North Shore, and there were

541
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 13: I was. I didn't know about the incident at the time,

542
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,239
Speaker 13: but received some text messages from concerned friends when they

543
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 13: heard that there was an incident with antsysiologist attacking his wife.

544
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 13: And my husband happens to be an anis causiologist. So

545
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 13: fortunately I was able to lay everyone's fears that I

546
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 13: was okay. But it's such a devastating story. I'm still

547
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 13: my stars could.

548
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: Happen, doctor Hannon? People actually thought it was you, well, they.

549
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 13: Knew friends and family knew I was on vacation on

550
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 13: o Wahu and my husband is an anisthesiologist.

551
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 3: So Wow Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

552
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: Doctor Catherine Hannah joining us, a renowned plastic surgeon. I

553
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about the case we just discussed

554
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: about the honeymoon attempt where Dubey valiantly tried to defend

555
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: the husband who claimed that winds had blown his wife

556
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: off the deck and or Israeli agents had killed her

557
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: because of a book he published. How would he explain

558
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: triangular gouges on his face and a four inch.

559
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 3: Scratch.

560
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about those triangular gouges on

561
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: his face, but also the hemorrhage in her.

562
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 3: Neck and eyes and neck bones. What that means?

563
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: Because her body was found many many miles away. But

564
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: what let's start with the victim. What does that mean

565
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: regarding hemorrhage.

566
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: In her neck and eyes? What is that?

567
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 13: So it's pretty significant and consistent with asphyxiation. There's usually

568
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 13: other patterns too, like you can look for finger marks

569
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 13: on the neck. You don't know if he used other

570
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 13: instruments to try to strangulate her, but that pressure on

571
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 13: the neck, the blood can't flow to the brain from

572
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 13: the heart and back down, so oxygen ceases to the

573
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 13: brain and you get little blood vessels breaking all over

574
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 13: the place.

575
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: Doctor Hannon, what about the triangular gouges on his face.

576
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 3: I guess the Israeli agents did that too.

577
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 13: My assumption is it's fingernails. There are all kinds of

578
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 13: I don't typically do my nails with acrylic or anything

579
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 13: like that, but they can often be pointy shaped and

580
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 13: be consistent with that kind of defense move if she's

581
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 13: trying to get him, if he's on top of her,

582
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 13: she's trying to push him off. That can certainly be

583
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 13: one of the ideologies of how that happened.

584
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 1: Doctor Catherine Hannon, I want to focus just one moment

585
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: on the fact that not only did the so called

586
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: beloved a doctor in this case, comment his wife with

587
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: a syringe full of clear liquid, she fought that off.

588
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: We have now deduced, in addition to dragging her to

589
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: the edge of the cliff, we also know we are

590
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: now learning by physical examination, that he bludgeoned her.

591
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 3: In the head and face with a rock before the cliff.

592
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: Have you noticed, doctor Hannon, that very often women are

593
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: disfigured either their genitals, their breasts, or their face in attacks, I.

594
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 13: Do see that. I have seen quite a few, unfortunately,

595
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 13: victims of domestic intimate partner violence. It's often bruises from

596
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 13: I assume hand fist punching. Sometimes those don't leave permanent marks,

597
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 13: but we do see permanent scars on the face. I

598
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 13: don't see as much of the genital violence. I think

599
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 13: more emergency room doctors and gynecologists see that. But yes,

600
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 13: there is an attempt to take that beauty away. It's

601
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 13: a control issue, is all I can assume.

602
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 11: At first, Ariel thinks Gertthard is playing around, but when

603
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 11: he shots her toward the edge of the cliff again,

604
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 11: fear sets in Ariel, now believing her husband is trying

605
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 11: to kill her. Ariel dives to the ground away from

606
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 11: the edge, and her husband is immediately on her, pinning

607
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 11: her down. The anesthesiologist pulls a syringe in a vial

608
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 11: from his bag and attempts to fill the syringe to

609
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 11: inject her. Ariel manages to knock the syringe from Koenig's hands,

610
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 11: and the doctor briefly digs in his bag again, possibly

611
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 11: looking for another Then he changes his mind, instead reaching

612
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 11: for a rock.

613
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 3: Koenig bashes his wife in the head repeatedly to doctor

614
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: Catherine Hannon.

615
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: What have we learned about the injuries to her skull

616
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: and face before she's dragged to the cliff's edge.

617
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:07,439
Speaker 13: My understanding is that she's bleeding. There was evidence that

618
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 13: the hikers that notified police saw lots of blood, So

619
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 13: the scalp the face bleeds excessively as anyone who knows

620
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 13: who's gotten a small cut. Even so, we know that

621
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 13: it probably was some facial lacerations. Who could have been scalped,

622
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 13: And then oftentimes, if you're defending yourself, you can get

623
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 13: injuries to your hand as well. So I don't know

624
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 13: if she actually had a brain injury at that time

625
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 13: that would have impaired her ability to fight back further

626
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 13: as he dragged her.

627
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: Now, it's amazing to me, Mayhlani Richardson joining us from

628
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: Hawaii News now that she actually was like clinging onto

629
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,919
Speaker 1: a tree. Yet he lures her then says, quote, get

630
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: back over there. I'm so sick of you. He says

631
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: that to her. Then she realizes this is real. What

632
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: more have we learned about that syringe that he had

633
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: conveniently in his bag?

634
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, it's important to remember that before that she

635
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 9: gets up into the tree, he has her bag and

636
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 9: cell phone, so she doesn't have belongings anymore. As for

637
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 9: that syringe, we have learned that she didn't know the

638
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 9: substance inside the syringe, and so she feared because he's

639
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 9: an anesthesiologist, that he has access to potentially lethal medication.

640
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 9: So she fears for her life. And during this struggle

641
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 9: we've learned that he allegedly reached into his bag. He

642
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 9: already had another vial in his hand, and he allegedly

643
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 9: reached into his bag and she feared it was another syringe.

644
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: Now, as you're taking a look at the so called

645
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: perfect couple, it all comes crashing down when the two

646
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: on her thirty sixth birthday, leaving the children behind, go

647
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: to a.

648
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 3: Sheer cliff's edge.

649
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall Philip Dbay cannot explain his way out

650
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: of this. The syringes the doctor took with him, that's

651
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: clear premeditation, Nancy.

652
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 6: He was planning to do this alleged crime. But I

653
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 6: think that there's a type of clumsiness too. I mean

654
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 6: putting on her tree and then pushing her to the

655
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 6: cliff's edge and then trying to use a syringe.

656
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 7: It's like the doctor had this.

657
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 6: Illusion of complete power like he has over his patients

658
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 6: when he does antithesiology, when he anesthetizes them. He thought

659
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 6: he could kind of anesthetize her too, so the illusion

660
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 6: of power slipped when she had a dawning of realization.

661
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 6: She knew what was happening and she started to protect herself.

662
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: Bill Hernandez, Why they attack to her face and skull,

663
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: I've seen that so many times. By the time I

664
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: would get a don Reel domestic relations attack, it would

665
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: be a felony such as aggravated as salt, aggravated battery

666
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: where the victim loses use of a limb or an eye,

667
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: or they can't hear where you actually lose use a

668
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 1: part of your body, or a murder. And I would

669
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: always see facial attacks where the head is totally bashed

670
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: in the face is disfigured.

671
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 3: Why. I'm sure you've got a theory.

672
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 9: Well.

673
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 8: A lot of times it is to disfigure them so

674
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 8: that other people will not find them attractive. But in

675
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 8: this case, I think he was also trying to knock

676
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 8: her unconscious so he could throw her off the cliff

677
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 8: and making it appear as if she accidentally fell off

678
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 8: the cliff and it was an accidental death, so making

679
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 8: it a staged homicide.

680
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: In this case, Ariel struggles against her husband's vicious attack

681
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 2: and tries to shield her face with their hands. Conig

682
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: tries swinging, crushing Ariel's thumb with the rock. Ariel starts

683
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: screaming for help, and a pair of hikers rush up

684
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 2: the trail after hearing her cry, the hiker's approach and

685
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: starts shouting at Koning, who immediately stops hitting Ariel, drops

686
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 2: the rock and takes off down the trail. Ariel weakly

687
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: crawls toward her rescuers, sobbing he tried to kill me

688
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 2: as they dial nine one one.

689
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: After this brutal attack, we learn so much more about

690
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: what happened behind closed doors. Take a listen from our

691
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: forensic Kho N two.

692
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 6: When you walk into their home, you felt the happiness,

693
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 6: you felt the love in the atmosphere and inlight. Like

694
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 6: I said, it's just shocking.

695
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: Ariel's petition for a restraining order against her husband reveals

696
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 2: the harrowing details of Koenig's attack on his wife and

697
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 2: the mother of his children. Ariel says she has no

698
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 2: idea what was in the vile Konig tried to inject

699
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: her with, but fears it was deadly medication stolen from

700
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: his workplace. Ariel also claims Koenig told his adult son

701
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 2: that he tried to kill her just minutes after the attack.

702
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: Ariel has little explanation for why Konig tried to kill her,

703
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 2: dear it stems from his belief she had an affair.

704
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: Ariel writes in her filing that her husband has recently

705
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 2: physically and sexually abused her.

706
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: From our forensic ko n two straight out to Mahealani

707
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: Richardson joining us Emmy Award winning anchor Hawaii needs now, Mayhealani,

708
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: we are learning so much in that restraining order, for instance.

709
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 9: Well Nancy, in that restraining order, we learned that during

710
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 9: this alleged violent attack that doctor Koenig, she says that

711
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 9: he tried to bash her, not just repeatedly, but she

712
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 9: uses a number ten times, and she fought back. She

713
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 9: threw herself to the ground, knowing that she could potentially

714
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 9: be thrown off this cliff, and in the struggle, he's

715
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 9: on top of her, she's on top of him. There

716
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 9: is a struggle, she's grabbed by the hair. According to

717
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 9: the documents, he pushes her face into the ground, and

718
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 9: in her attempt to fight back, she bid.

719
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: His forearm, or what she thought was his forearm.

720
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: In the last days, we learn the so called good

721
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: a doctor tries to hide his face from view. I

722
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: wonder why we also learn in those court documents that

723
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: she Ari Yelle accuses her husband, the doctor, viciously beating

724
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: her over and over and sex assaulting her during the

725
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: marriage leading up to that. Sheer cliff drop.

726
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 3: If you know or think you know anything.

727
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: As a state builds its case, please dial eight and

728
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: zero eight nine five eighty three hundred, repeat eight and

729
00:42:52,280 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: zero eight eighty three hundred. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend.

730
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 13: Give