1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Hi, it's s Aksha. We started Zero last year in 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: the middle of a historic heatwave in London. Since then, 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people regularly listened to the show 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: and we are so grateful. Now we want to know 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: what you think about it, so we've created a survey 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: that'll take a few minutes of your time, but it'll 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: really help make the show better. The survey is linked 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: in the show notes, or you can find it at 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com forward slash zero survey. That's one word, 10 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: zero survey. Thank you. Welcome to Zero. I'm Akshadarrati. Every 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: year Bloomberg NEF awards a handful of leading climate startups 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: a Clean Tech Pioneer Award. Back when the award was 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: first launched in twenty ten, it focused on the kind 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: of companies you would expect solar, wind and batteries. But 15 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: since then the clean tech landscape has expanded in a 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: thousand different directions, and this year's award feature everything from 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: crop spring, drones and microbial fermentation to nanoelectrodes and low 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: carbon cement. Today we are replaying an episode of Zero 19 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: that features one of these winners. It's an interview with 20 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 1: the founder of low carbon steel startup Electra. Their work 21 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: is pretty cool, and if it proves scalable, could play 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: a huge role in cutting emissions from the carbon intensive 23 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: steel industry. It's interesting to see how far the company 24 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: has come in just a few months since this episode 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: was aired. For the full list of winners of this 26 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: year's Clean Tech Pioneer Award, check out the link we've 27 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: put in the show notes. Welcome to Zero. I am Akshatrati. 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: This week steel stealth and flattening the carbon cove. This summer, 29 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: I spent three weeks traveling around the US visiting climate startups. Today, 30 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you the story of one of them, 31 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: a secretive company called Electra that operates out of a 32 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: suburban office park in Colorado. Electra is taking on a massive, 33 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: often unrecognized problem, decarbonizing steel, an industry worth nearly one 34 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,119 Speaker 1: trillion dollars that accounts for seven percent of global greenhouse 35 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: gas emissions. The vast majority of those emissions come from 36 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: the first step in the process of making steel, converting 37 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: iron ore to iron. 38 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 2: What I pitched to him is like, I had four ideas. Actually, 39 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: to be honest with you, first idea I was explaining 40 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: to him was around iron and steel of electrification at 41 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: low temperature, and he said, let me stop you right there, 42 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 2: I'm already sold. 43 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: That's Sandep Nijhawn, co founder of Electra, describing a conversation 44 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: with his first investor. Was sold on the radical simplicity 45 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: of Watson the post proposing zero carbon steel using iron 46 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: produced at low temperature. Since that initial pitch, Electra has 47 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: gone on to raise eighty five million dollars. What attracts 48 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: people to Electra is the fact that not only can 49 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: zero carbon steel solve a climate problem, but that it 50 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: also has the potential to make a lot of money. 51 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: That's one reason why Electra has been in stealth mode 52 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: for the last two years. It did not want any 53 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: of its ideas stolen. Now the company is finally talking 54 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: because its idea has gone from a PowerPoint presentation to 55 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: working at lap scale. What's the innovation. Coal plays a 56 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: big part of making steel today. It is used to 57 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: melt iron ore in a furnace and also to extract 58 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: unwanted oxygen atoms. Coal provides both the fuel for heat 59 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: and the carbon for extracting oxygen in the process, forming 60 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: huge amounts of carbon dioxide. Electros technology gets rid of 61 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: both the furnace and the coal. It uses only renewable 62 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: electricity and completes the reaction of making iron from iron 63 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: ore at temperatures cooler than sixty degrees celsius, no molten metal, 64 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: no carbon emissions, and nothing hotter than your coffee. Crazy huh. 65 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: I talked to Sunleep about how he came up with 66 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: this idea, built a team in the middle of the pandemic, 67 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: and what the steel town of the future will look like. 68 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:42,799 Speaker 1: Sandep Welcome to the show. 69 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: Thanks ch Chu, please over here. 70 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,799 Speaker 1: Now you're trying to solve a problem that most people 71 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: don't think about, but it is a massive problem for 72 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: the climate, and that is how to make steel without 73 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,239 Speaker 1: having emissions. Let's start with stating out the problem though. 74 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: Why is it that steel is such a big problem 75 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: for climate change? 76 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: Sure, steel is, as you know, the backbone of modern society. 77 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 2: Steel is one of the hardest to abate sectors, and 78 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: we produce about one point nine billion tons of steel 79 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 2: each year. 80 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: Why is there a CEO two problem at all? There 81 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: is no CO two coming in this process. As far 82 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: as most people would understand the process. 83 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: Steel is actually ninety eight percent ron. The way the 84 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: steel is made today is through a pyromat energy process 85 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: that uses coal energy. We first melt the iron ore 86 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 2: at about sixteen hundred degrees celsius using coal as a 87 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 2: source of energy, and that carbon is also used to 88 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 2: then refine or reduce or transform iron ore into pure iron. 89 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: And that's because iron ore is mostly iron and oxygen combined, 90 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: whereas what you for steel making is pure iron or 91 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: iron mixed with some small other elements. 92 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: That's correct. So from a problem statement perspective, what this 93 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: translates to is ninety percent of steel's emission come from 94 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 2: refining the iron ore into iron to mix steel. 95 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: Now, it's intuitive that if you use coal to remove 96 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: the oxygen from iron ore, and that coal then ends 97 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: up into CO two emissions, we don't want to use coal. 98 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: There have been solutions that have been put forward where 99 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: people use hydrogen instead, because hydrogen can also do the 100 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: same job and convert the hydrogen and oxygen mixture into water, 101 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: which does not contribute to climate change. So if we 102 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: have that solution, why try something else? 103 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: First of all, I mean steel is as a two 104 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 2: billion ton market one trillion dollars, so I think world 105 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 2: leads multi solutions to come to a resolution or transformation, 106 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: and how we're going to do that. Having said that, 107 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 2: a hydrogen As we know, one of the challenges with 108 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 2: hydrogen is its availability and cost. So to get to 109 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: zero green premium steel, you need hydrogen at a dollar 110 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: a kilo when itselfs. 111 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: When you say zero green premium, you're basically saying at 112 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: the same cost as steel that can be made using coal. 113 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: Correct without any carbon subsidy. You need dollar achilo hydrogen 114 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: to do that. But even more important, the issue of 115 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: transforming our global steel production to a hydrogen based process 116 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: comes down to the availability of ores that are needed 117 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 2: to make hydrogen based steel green steel. And the reason 118 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: that becomes a problem is that hydrogen risk process needs 119 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: the highest grade of ron content available in the ores 120 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: to make that happen, and the world is running out 121 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: of high grade ores that are available for steelmaking. At 122 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: the same time, it's not that the world doesn't have 123 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: iron ore. I mean, our planet is made of iron 124 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: and there's plenty of iron ore. It's that it has 125 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: certain grades of ore that cannot be economically processed. 126 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: Which is that there are a lot of impurities, there's. 127 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: A lot of impurities, and impurities are like phosphorus, impurities 128 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: are high silica, high alumina. For example, there is eight 129 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: billion tons of reserves of high fast containing ores in 130 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: just one country like Australia, but that is worldwide. You 131 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: will find these kinds of ores. 132 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're not using hydrogen to make your carbon 133 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: free steel. What is your solution that has got investors 134 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: giving you eighty million dollars to solve it? 135 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: What we have is with starting with the clean sheet, 136 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:53,359 Speaker 2: design a process to electrify iron making using widely available 137 00:08:53,640 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 2: lower grade ores and radically shifting the operating temper nature 138 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: of the process from sixteen hundred degrees to sixty degrees 139 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: celsius and thereby displacing the carbon intensive coal energy with 140 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: renewal energy to make pure iron. 141 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: And your process has no fire attached to it. 142 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: All green, It is low temperature. In fact, you could 143 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: touch it, and I mean it is as benign from 144 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: a temperature perspective, you can get. 145 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, your coffee is brooded at a higher temperature. 146 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: Coffee is brooded high temperature. 147 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely, So you go from the process as it exists 148 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: today where you take iron ore, burn coal heated to 149 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: sixteen hundred degrees celsius create iron, and in the process 150 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: even steel. It's a one place process. Iron ore comes 151 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: into a plant, it goes through a series of steps 152 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: and outcomes steel. You're splitting that process into two steps. 153 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: You're making only iron first, and then somebody else will 154 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: make the steel. But because iron making is ninety percent 155 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: of emissions, that's the step you want to attack. 156 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: That's correct, That's where the problem is. How do we 157 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: get to purer and without having emissions. 158 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're not using hydrogen. You're not going to 159 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: heat this to sixteen hundred degrees celsius, but keep it 160 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: at sixty degree celsius. Going to use electricity whereas that 161 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: electricity coming from because most electricity generation even today has 162 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: carbon dioxide emissions attached to it. 163 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, what we're bringing forth is our ability to use 164 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: intermittent renewable electricity, which is of course now increasably available 165 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: at scale. 166 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: So this is solar and wind. 167 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 2: Correctly, the solar and wind, if hydro is available, will 168 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: use hydro as well. But what is the cheapest form 169 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 2: of zero carbon electricity is intermittent solar and win today period. 170 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: Let's talk about how you arrived at this solution in 171 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: the first place because you weren't making steel before this. 172 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: Your previous companies had to do with hydrogen production and 173 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: energy storage. So why I go down the route of 174 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: making steel. 175 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. So my background is in electrochemical conversion systems. So 176 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: one of those batteries storage companies that I had was 177 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 2: developing an iron based battery storage. It was actually specifically 178 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: nickel iron. So that's Edison's chemistry under de Year sold 179 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 2: highly robust chemistry, but iron is the means in which 180 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 2: you're storing the energy. So I know few things, not all, 181 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 2: but few things about iron, I would say. And my 182 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: career of whether doing energy storage or hydrogen, we're all 183 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: tied towards decarbonization as a professional goal, and that being 184 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: the north star of my career. And Electra is really 185 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: continuation of the journey in terms of picking one of 186 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: the hardest to abate sectors and then if there is 187 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: a solution to be had, then making a big impact 188 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: with it. 189 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: And so you come to this point where you're like, Okay, 190 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: this is a big problem. I need to solve this. 191 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I started thinking about this at the peak 192 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 2: of the pandemic in March twenty twenty, So you remember, 193 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 2: how can we flatten the curve? Remember flattening the curve? 194 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 3: We feel like, if we can get America to all 195 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 3: pitch in for the next fifteen days, we can flatten 196 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 3: the curve, which is a term that you've been hearing 197 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 3: a lot, not overwhelm our healthcare systems. 198 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: And I was basically, Okay, that's great. I'm not a biologist. 199 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 2: I can't really impact the thing. What can I do 200 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 2: to flatten the global temperature that has been rising and 201 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 2: is expected to go to two degree celsius? And that's 202 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: where I said, well, let's pick the problem like steel, 203 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 2: which can have a huge impact. 204 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: I remember in March twenty twenty, I was just worried 205 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: that we may not be able to find a vaccine. 206 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: You know, I am a climate journalist. I was thinking 207 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: about climate change, but I wasn't thinking about starting a 208 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: company that would tryansolve a climate problem rather than a 209 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: vaccine problem. 210 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 2: While you know, pandemic was not the place I would 211 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: wish to have again ever, but I was through a 212 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: transition of my previous companies. There was an a whole 213 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: lot to and go on a vacation or sit on 214 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: a beach and do a whole lot of things. So 215 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: there was plenty of time to sort of think and 216 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 2: sort of refine my thinking of what can be done here. 217 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 2: And I don't have a background in steelmaking, but as 218 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, I'm a very fast learner. 219 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: And so you thought about it, you thought about the problem, 220 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: and you made a PowerPoint presentation that's correct. 221 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 2: There were seven slides in it. And it was actually 222 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 2: a five minute conversation with our lead investor, which is 223 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: Bill Gates founded Breakthrough and Entry Ventures in particular Dave 224 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 2: Danielsen there, and what I pitched to him is like 225 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 2: I had four ideas actually, to be honest with you, 226 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 2: Steele was one of them, and I said, I need 227 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 2: thirty minutes to walk you through some of these ideas 228 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 2: I have. First idea I was explaining to him was 229 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 2: around iron and steel of electrification at low temperature, and 230 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: he said, let me stop you right there, and he said, 231 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 2: you don't have to go any further than that. I'm 232 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: already sold. If you could do this thing, that's what 233 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 2: I want to do. I don't want to ye the 234 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 2: next three ideas and that was the journey we started 235 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 2: on in March thirteen, twenty twenty, the day before California 236 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: shut down. Right, okay, and that was my first and 237 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: only investor meeting face to face I ever had for 238 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: the next two years. 239 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: Okay, And so how big a check did he get? 240 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: Our first check at the seed was two point two 241 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: five million, not just from breakthrough but a number of investors, 242 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 2: and my pitch to all of them was, look, I 243 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: don't know if this can be done. I've thought through 244 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: the problem and asked the experts. I think there's a 245 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 2: feasibility path. But all I need is less than ten people, 246 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: maybe a year, year and a half to run this 247 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: thing to ground, to prove to myself first can this 248 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: be done? Because if this cannot be done, I have 249 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 2: idea number two, three, and four to work on and 250 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: they're also big problems just solve. And we had the 251 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 2: money in the bank by end of June. Essentially it 252 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: took us, you know, three and a half months to 253 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 2: close that round. 254 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: And then what did you do next? Because you needed 255 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: more people, you needed some science. 256 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 2: The success of anything, at the end of the day 257 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 2: comes to the team, right, So we need people who 258 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 2: can essentially think through a problem, big down, a problem 259 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 2: like this find the fatalities and solve them in the 260 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: right sequence, because you don't have time or the money 261 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 2: to boil the ocean, so you have to really think 262 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 2: through what needs to happen, what has to be met 263 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: to move forward, that there is a path forward here. 264 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 2: Of course, we started in a garage. 265 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: No, it really was a garage. I mean, that's that's 266 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: a Silicon Valley stereotype. 267 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: It is not a stereotype. It is the real answer 268 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: because it's one of our employees that later joined as employee. 269 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 2: He was started as a consultant, and of course some 270 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: of these folks started without getting paid because we didn't 271 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: have money to pay them. And the idea was if 272 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: we get raised the money, you know, you will have 273 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: an opportunity to think about you want to join full 274 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: time an on because it's a very high risk project. 275 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: Some of them had full time jobs and this is pandemic, 276 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: you know, I remember people are losing jobs, a lot 277 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: of instability in the economy, and people were hunkering down 278 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 2: in terms of keeping the head above the water. Right. 279 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: So it was one of the employees that we have 280 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: today his garage and he's also has a machine shop 281 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 2: there that he makes parts with on its free time, 282 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 2: he makes drones actually as a hobby, so it was 283 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: very convenient garage where we can build parts and we 284 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 2: can start making our test equipment and sells. Of course, 285 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: we cannot do certain things in the garage from safety perspective, 286 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: so we had to wait to get to a real 287 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 2: laboratory where we can run experiment. 288 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: So beyond the PowerPoint, did you really have a plan 289 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: for how you would solve the problem? 290 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 2: Look? I did have a starting point, right, So it 291 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 2: was in this case almost ignorance was a bliss. What 292 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: you don't know, you don't know. But what you're promising 293 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 2: to the investor is, look, we will run this thing 294 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 2: to ground. We will figure out every possible plan of attack. 295 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: And I knew exactly when I started who the best 296 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: person would be that could do it. 297 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: That person was Quark Fam, who we met on our 298 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: tour of the company. 299 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:32,719 Speaker 2: Do I need to introduce myself? 300 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, so your name for me, I'm Quirk Fam. I'm 301 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 3: a chief technology officer and co founder of Electro, So welcome. 302 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 2: Quark was at another company that I actually had a 303 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: non solicit I actually could not go to Quak and 304 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: bring him and say Quak, come please join me. That 305 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 2: would be violation of my contract. It was actually around 306 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: early August that Quark called me. Was not me calling him. 307 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: Quark called him like, Okay, I'm done. I want to 308 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 2: do something different. And I said, well, timing is perfect, 309 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 2: and here's what I am thinking. 310 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: What Sundy was thinking was maybe they could make iron 311 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: the way other metals are made, like zinc, aluminum, and copper. 312 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: They're all made using electricity. 313 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 2: But when you come to iron, this becomes really a. 314 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: Mess because iron does not behave like the other metals. Remember, 315 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: iron ore is made of iron and oxygen. To get 316 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: the pure iron that you need to make the steel, 317 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: you have to separate iron from oxygen. That can be 318 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: accomplished with electricity, which is the promise Sunday made to investors. 319 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: But you cannot pass electricity through solid iron ore. You 320 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: need to dissolve iron ore in a liquid first, and acid. 321 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: In this case. Figuring out how to dissolve iron ore 322 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: in acid was Quoc's first job. 323 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 3: The moment we get the lab space. The very first 324 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 3: experiment that I goan in the lab was to verify 325 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 3: can we even dissolve I knowal and not too much 326 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 3: to my surprise, we could not, and so I remember 327 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 3: going to Sandy It's office and I told him, Hey, 328 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 3: I have a bad news for you. You need to sit down. 329 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 3: We cannot dissolve iron ore, so which means that forget 330 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 3: about what we plan to do, because that's a very 331 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 3: first step. It doesn't happen in of a story. So 332 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 3: I joke with him that could have been my shortest 333 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 3: taught up life ever, but accepting the fact that it 334 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 3: doesn't dissolve, accepting it, I may have a short job 335 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 3: opportunity here. Let's see if I can turn the situation around. 336 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: And he did turn the situation around in a few months. 337 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: Electra had the whole process from iron ore to iron 338 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: made with only electricity working on a lab bench. Now 339 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: Electro does not want to share the secret source of 340 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: how they made it happen, but I spoke to experts 341 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: who reviewed parts of the technology and confirmed it is feasible, 342 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: and the proof is in the pudding. When electricity is 343 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: used for this process, the iron oxide is broken into oxygen, 344 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: which is released as a gas, and iron which is 345 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: plated onto an electrode. I got to see those plates. 346 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, please, we're can to move it. 347 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: With the silvery green metal on them. Yeah, I don't 348 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: think I ever help here, and in this form before 349 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,479 Speaker 1: first small ones the size of business cards, and then 350 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: large ones the size of office paper. I even held 351 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: them in my hands in surprise, surprise, it's heavy. They 352 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: were heavy. Before it can be commercial, those plates will 353 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: have to be much larger, something like three feet by 354 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: three feet. After the break, I talked to Sleep about 355 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 1: how all this goes from the lab bench to a 356 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: factory in a town near you. And each of those 357 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: steps that you had to solve, those were known science. 358 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: Is just that the combination of those known science steps 359 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: done in the specific way that you have done, is 360 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: what is the core innovation of electra. 361 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 2: That's correct. We are not inventing new science. We are 362 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 2: not inventing new catalysts. We are not inventing new unoptaineed material. 363 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 2: Every aspect of science, all the material systems that we 364 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: are needed to make this innovation happen, is readily available. 365 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 2: Parts of it are used in different processs, and our 366 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 2: real innovation is bringing this all together to solve the problem. 367 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: Iron and steel especially is a very cheap commodity. Yes, 368 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: it has a climate problem. It's a cheap commodity because 369 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: we have to use it at such a scale. So 370 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: you had to use every step to be such a cheap, 371 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: easy to do step that you could replicate the cost 372 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: of steel as you can buy it from the market today. 373 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 2: That is absolutely correct. And in addition to that, what 374 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 2: I will also add less not forget a head is 375 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 2: only money for a year, So time pressure do or 376 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: die in a startup is real. You don't have ten 377 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 2: years to develop the science to create a new catalyst, 378 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 2: to create a new material. It had to be solid 379 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 2: or we move on from a fatality perspective. That was 380 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: very important. You have to be in that pressure cooker 381 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: to be honest with you, rather than having infinite time 382 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 2: available and resources available to see what can be done 383 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 2: in a different way. 384 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: So twenty twenty one you found a way to try 385 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: and make these different steps work. What have you been 386 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: doing for the last eighteen months. 387 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, So in early twenty two Q one or twenty 388 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 2: twenty one, we had on a bench top the entire 389 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 2: process now going all the way from over into Puren 390 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: already on place, using that process and showing that it 391 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: can be economically done at a price point that the 392 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: world needs We then went and raised additional capital and 393 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 2: we raised twenty eight million by June of twenty twenty one, 394 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 2: and we brought in other investors co investors into our syndicate. 395 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: So now we have total raised eighty two million dollars. 396 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: Since talking to Sindeve in August, a number has gone 397 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: up to eighty five million dollars. And one of your 398 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: investors is a mining company called BHP. Why is BHP 399 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: interested in this? 400 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: To be honest, bringing strategic investors very early in the 401 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 2: startup is not what a typical venture capital community will 402 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: advise you to do. That and I overrule that largely 403 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: knowing or having a gut reaction that ores are going 404 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 2: to be a big part of the story. So the 405 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: goal of that strategic partnership was to explore what can 406 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: be done from the overside, and how expansive is our 407 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 2: process in dealing with impurities, and what kind of oors 408 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 2: can we used to make green steel. 409 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: So, if I'm hearing you right, your solutions are you 410 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: use as much energy or less energy than the conventional process. 411 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: That energy is electricity that can be intermittent and renewable, 412 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: so it has no carbon attached to it, and you 413 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: can use lower grade iron ore, which is cheaper to get. 414 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: So if you combine that and you scale it up, 415 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: you'll have presented a carbon free, cheaper way to make iron. 416 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: But then you have to make steel. 417 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 2: Right, that's correct, and the next step is to take 418 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: that iron and again smelt it or melt it and 419 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: then adding other constituents to it to give steel its strength. 420 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 2: But melting something is a very small amount of energy 421 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 2: that is needed to mix steel. 422 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: It's very counterintuitive to most people. I would think, when 423 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: you look at a hot piece of metal that's been melted, 424 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: you go, oh my god, that will have taken a 425 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: lot of energy. But when you look at iron ore 426 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: and then you look at iron metal, you don't think energy. 427 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 2: That's correct because what we are not seeing is that 428 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 2: the energy is predominantly you to split oxygen that is 429 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 2: bonded to iron, and that's where the bulk of the 430 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 2: energy goes to get the oxygen out. Now, if you 431 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: use carbon, it makes COO two. If you use electrons, 432 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: you do not produce any COO two, and you can 433 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 2: get to pure iron, which is again the goal of 434 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: all of these processes is before you can get to steal. 435 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: When will you have your first factory making this carbon 436 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: free iron and hopefully steal after that. 437 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: We are working on building a pilot, and we should 438 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 2: have this pilot working in twenty twenty three. This will 439 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 2: be an industrial scale pilot. And what I mean by 440 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 2: that I need to clarify is that it will have 441 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 2: iron plates that are being produced a low temperature process, 442 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 2: which are meter square type of a area. And the 443 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 2: goal of that pilot is to stressed us the design 444 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 2: of the commercial plant we're actually doing at this point. 445 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 2: So we need a place where we can stress test 446 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 2: all the design in terms of what works, what doesn't work, 447 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 2: and how do we scale that up to a full 448 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 2: commercial scale. 449 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: So what you're describing is very different from how people 450 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: think of steel because the steel industry as it exists 451 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: has created entire towns that are steel towns where the 452 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: only job maker is a steel factory and it takes 453 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: up a huge amount of land, and that land is 454 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: required for making coal. To pick up coke, which is carbon, 455 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: you require iron ore that has to be cleaned up 456 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: and put into this big furnace at sixteen hundred degrees celsius. 457 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: Then once you get iron out of it, then you 458 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: have to do something else to make steel. All of 459 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: that is a huge amount of investment. Are you saying 460 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: that you can now make iron in a very small plant? Now? 461 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 2: I would say in terms of it's more distributed that 462 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 2: it is modular in the sense that you don't need 463 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 2: to create an integrated plant that has all of these 464 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 2: feedstocks coming in in a plant and then steel goes out. 465 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: What this allows you to do is do this in 466 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 2: a distributed way, just the way EA steel making is done. 467 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: Can you explain what EAF is. 468 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, So EAF is electric arc furnace. It is the 469 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 2: electricity powered arc furnace that is used to melt scrap 470 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 2: or r pure rn and make into steel. Thirty percent 471 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: of steel is made using EAF steel making. 472 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,360 Speaker 1: It's a wild process as well. You'll see sparks flying everywhere. 473 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: It's giant and it's very noisy, and once the process 474 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: is done, you see this like molten metal being poured 475 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: down from that unit. It's just yeah, it's a wild, 476 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: wild thing. It happens everywhere. It's it's just that not 477 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: many people get to see it. 478 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's the way steel is made. I 479 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 2: mean and alternative. You also may have seen molten iron 480 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: poured out our blast furnaces, and that's the image we 481 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 2: have grown up looking at iron. It's hot, almost the 482 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 2: image of fire. And of course all of that is 483 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 2: coming from carbon intensity and CO two that goes along 484 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 2: with it. So in terms of job creation, this is 485 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 2: actually still a lot of job creation because this is 486 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 2: manufacturing jobs that plant aren't making. Plant I'm talking about 487 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 2: it is going to have fifty years life, so it 488 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 2: is going to create a town around it where you 489 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 2: will have renewal electricity coming to their green jobs. From 490 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 2: that side, iron ore being supplied, so that is not 491 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 2: going away, and we are using green energy and ores 492 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 2: to produce pure ron for next fifty years at that plant. 493 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: And the Inflation Reduction Act or the biggest climate build 494 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: that the US has passed, will that help you in 495 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: any way? 496 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 3: Oh? 497 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I would say that is the most exciting things 498 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 2: I have seen in the climate tech space in fifteen 499 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: years of history I've had. There is seven billion of 500 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: investment that have been set aside to help decarbonize hard 501 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 2: to abate industry like ours. So steel is included, cement 502 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: is included, and I'm planning to go to DC to 503 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: start having conversations with policy makers that there is another 504 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 2: way to get to green steel that doesn't involve all 505 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: the known things we have had, which is hydrogen which 506 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: this is part of big tax credit that is already 507 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 2: in the Inflation Reduction Act or carbon capture or sequestration 508 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 2: that's also part of what's in the Inflation Reduction Act. 509 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: And the solutions like ours that from first principle do 510 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 2: not produce the COEO two emissions that you're trying to 511 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 2: abate through all of the tax credit that Inflation Reduction 512 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 2: Act is offering. So the conversation I want to have 513 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 2: with the policy makers is on that front is how 514 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: can we be part of that equation to also accelerate 515 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 2: and promote technologies like ours to get to scale faster. 516 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: And that was a great conversation. Thanks for the tour 517 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: and good luck with scaling up. 518 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 2: Thank you, it was a pleasure to host you outside 519 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: and have this conversation. 520 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to zero. For the full list of 521 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: winners of this year's PNF Clean Tech Pioneer Award, see 522 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: the link in the show notes. If you like the show, 523 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: please rate, review and subscribe, Tell a friend, or tell 524 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: a budding clean tech entrepreneur. If you've got a suggestion 525 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: for a guest or topic, or something you just want 526 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: us to look into, get in touch at zero port 527 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot Net. Zero's producer is Oscar Boyd and 528 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: senior producer is Christine Riskell. Our theme music is composed 529 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: by Wonderly Special Thanks to cheer Up in Them, I'm 530 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: Akhtarati back next week.