1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 2: should know. And if this were the Gong Show, we 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 2: would have been gone a very long time ago, I believe. 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: I think you mean Chucky Baby. 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: Yeah that's right. Nice catch, because we're talking about Chucky Baby, 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: the original one, not you, the Chucky baby. 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: I got called that though back then because of this. 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: Oh really, Oh yeah. 11 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: Boy, you've been alive for a while. 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: I get I was about the same man. This was 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: right in my cultural wheelhouse from like seven to ten. 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: But yeah, that makes it a little young for you 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: or a little old for you, I guess. 16 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 2: Uh. Yeah, it was a I was a baby when 17 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: it started. I think I might have not been born 18 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: quite yet when it started, but yeah it was. Did 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: you watch as a. 20 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: Todd Okay, did you watch any Gong Show ever? Like? 21 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: Was it reruns or something? 22 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? I saw some reruns. I was never I mean, 23 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: I can understand the Gong Show is a cult classic. Yeah, 24 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: and I totally get why. It just never got me 25 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: in that way, you know what I mean? 26 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: Hey, when you're seven, it's pretty great. 27 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: How bad you're like, come on, boobs. 28 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 29 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: So we're not talking specifically just about the Gong Show. 30 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 2: We're talking about the guy who is routinely wrongly attributed 31 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: for creating the Gong Show. And the reason why is 32 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: because he was a legendary game show producer and he 33 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: hosted The Gong Show and his name was Chuck Barris. 34 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: But just to kind of clear the air right out 35 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 2: of the gate, the Gong Show is actually created by 36 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 2: Chris Beard, who would go on to become a legendary 37 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: creator of another cult classic called Sherman Oaks in the nineties. 38 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: I never watched that. 39 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: I've never heard of that. 40 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: I feel like I had heard of it, but I 41 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 2: really don't think I ever saw it. There's a lot 42 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: of the nineties I probably don't remember, but yeah, you know, 43 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: I don't think I watched Sherman. Oh. 44 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. The nineties were our seventies. 45 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, kind of like our seventies and our sixties combined. 46 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. And the reason we're talking about Chuck Barriss is 47 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: not just the fact that he was way ahead of 48 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: his time in a lot of ways as far as 49 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: what kind of content he was putting on television like 50 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: a real visionary if you look back at what we're 51 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: seeing today and what he was doing at the time. 52 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: But the reason we're talking about Chuck Barris is because 53 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: he did that. And also, as we will learn in 54 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: Act three, well we'll learn it now, but we'll get 55 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: into it in AC three. Chuck Barris also wrote a 56 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,679 Speaker 1: book in nineteen eighty four, after his TV career was 57 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: pretty much over, wherein he said basically that while this 58 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: was going on, he was a secret assassin for the 59 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: CIA and carried out at least thirty three murders on 60 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: behalf of the American government. And that was a book 61 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: called Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, also made into a 62 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: film of that same name, which makes this sort of 63 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: an obvious pick for something for us to go over. 64 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: I thought you're gonna say, like something new came up 65 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: about him or something like that recently. So how did 66 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: you think of Chuck Barris? Like, are you always just 67 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: walking around with Chuck Barris in the back of your mind? 68 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: I don't. It popped up somehow, and I was like, 69 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: because I saw that movie and I was like, oh, yeah, 70 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: that's so weird that Chuck Barris wrote a memoir in 71 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: which he said that he was a CIA assassin. Yeah, 72 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: like what was up? Like I never even like did 73 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: any research to see how untrue that may or may 74 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: not have been. So that was really kind of it. 75 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. In the movie I think that was George Clooney's 76 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: directorial debut, they treat it like, yeah, it's part of 77 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: his life and ericave Yeah, which was an interesting choice, 78 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: but also it kind of gets you out of like 79 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: really getting caught in the weeds of trying to explore 80 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: if it was true and if it's not, why he 81 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: did that. Yeah, I think it was a good move. Actually. 82 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so here we go on the Baron of bad taste, 83 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: the King of dynamite television, I've got one, the King 84 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: of schlock and drum. 85 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: Roll, the Iatola of trash Ola. 86 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: Is that great and very of the time. That fits? 87 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Iatola was on people's minds in the mid 88 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: to late seventies. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, this guy was 89 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: born in nineteen twenty nine. Apparently when you read about 90 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: interviews that he's given, like he was born in twenty nine, 91 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: thirty thirty one, thirty two. Yeah, Like he is not 92 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 2: huge on keeping up with consistent details. And I still 93 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: don't know whether that was intentional, Like was he toying 94 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 2: with people all this time or did he just not 95 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 2: pay attention to that kind of thing because he had 96 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: bigger stuff going. 97 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: On, Yeah, like killing people. Who knows, but he is 98 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: a guy from Philly, went to at the time Drexel 99 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: Institute of Technology now Drexel University in the fifties, wanted 100 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: to be a songwriter for Tin pan Alley for a 101 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: little while. Ultimately would write a song which we'll get to, 102 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: and then decided he wanted to get into tell and 103 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: became a page at NBC in nineteen fifty five, which 104 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: went nowhere because the daytime sales department he was a 105 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: page for at the time was eliminated. But that gave 106 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:14,559 Speaker 1: him the TV bug. 107 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was what he wanted to do, was crack 108 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,239 Speaker 2: into TV. He even went so far as to marry 109 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: the niece of the founder of CBS not, a woman 110 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 2: named Lynn Levy. Yeah. But yeah, in the context of 111 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: his ambitions, you're like, like, what's that, like, you know, 112 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: deliberate kind of thing. I guess it doesn't really matter. 113 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: Although yeah, he was married to her for nineteen years. 114 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: I will point that out, you know, so it seems 115 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: like a real marriage. 116 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: Talk about keeping up appearances. 117 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 118 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: So, yeah, he started out like Kenneth from thirty Rock 119 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: didn't last and then I don't know how it happened, 120 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: but he ended up getting an assignment from ABC. So 121 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: he started at NBC, moved to ABC, and his sole 122 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: job was to go babysit Dick Clark to make sure 123 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: that he wasn't accepting bribes or being a corrupt host 124 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: of American Bandstand. That was his job in his twenties. Yeah, 125 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,799 Speaker 2: and it was supposed to last just a couple of weeks. 126 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 2: It ended up lasting a year. And then very interestingly, 127 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: he kept copious notes. Every day he would write up 128 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 2: like a minute detailed account of everything that happened on 129 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 2: set that day, and he would also include jokes and 130 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: like parts of his philosophy and stuff like that, and 131 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: it turned into like a seven hundred page document that 132 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: ended up bailing Dick Clark out. 133 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. In the end, when Dick Clark testified in front 134 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: of the US House sub committee, it was about you know, 135 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: payella scandals of you know, pay for play basically for music, 136 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: which was illegal. It actually got him out like you said, 137 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: And Dick Clark was like, hey, buddy, I wonder what 138 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: you were scribbling on all those that whole year, But 139 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: you helped me out inadvertently, and now you got a 140 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,799 Speaker 1: full time job in our daytime TV department here at ABC. 141 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. He also said, hey, by the way, have you 142 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 2: ever thought about getting into songwriting? And in fact, Dick 143 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 2: Clark set him up with Freddie Boom Boom Cannon, a 144 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: top recording artist at the time and a friend of 145 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: Dick Clark's, and he recorded a song Palisades Park that 146 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: Chuck Barris wrote, and it made it to like number 147 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: three on the Billboard charts. Yeah, I know it's and 148 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: I think in nineteen sixty two, I think it was. Yeah, 149 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: and the Beach Boys ended up covering it. So that 150 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: alone probably made him quite quite successful right off the bat. 151 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, even though his songwriting career, I mean 152 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: that was kind of it for songwriting because his TV 153 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: career was taking off. By all appearances, was a very 154 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: hard worker and you know, I don't want to come 155 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: across as we're just you know, singing Chuck Barris's praises 156 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: constantly here. He changed the game in a lot of 157 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: ways in TV. But as we'll see, because it was 158 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: the seventies, that was a lot of misogyny tied into 159 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: stuff he was doing on TV, which we'll get to. 160 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: Just wanted to sort of level set on that. 161 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that was good. 162 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: But when he was working for ABC, he became worked 163 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: his way up to director of daytime Programs and initially 164 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: got on the map with them by making a pilot 165 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: about it was called People Poker, and it was sort 166 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: of the first sign that he wanted to do a 167 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: different kind of game show, like sort of a what 168 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: would become like a Jerry Springer type thing with a 169 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: game show component. With as far as People Poker goes 170 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: was people were on the show to guess the professions 171 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: of different other people in this pilot, which is I 172 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: believe as far as it went, he had all women 173 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: on the show. He had brain surgeons, police officers, and 174 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: sex workers, and it ended up that the cops and 175 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: the sex workers got into a literal fight and the 176 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: show obviously didn't go anywhere, and he left ABC not 177 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: too long after. 178 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was huge that out on his own, 179 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 2: and in fact, shortly after that he founded Chuck Barris Productions. 180 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 2: That was nineteen sixty five, so probably as the door 181 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 2: was still swinging behind him at ABC, which, by the way, 182 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: you said he was the director of daytime Programs. Apparently 183 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: he didn't like that title, so he changed his official 184 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 2: title to Duke of Daytime. That's the kind of guy 185 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 2: he was. This guy's working his way up and that's 186 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 2: one of the things he does, right, So it does 187 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: make sense that he goes off and founds his own 188 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 2: production company with a twenty thousand dollars loan from his stepdad, 189 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: and that ended up paying off because in nineteen sixty 190 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: five he developed the dating game, turned around and sold 191 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 2: it to his former employer, ABC, and it was basically 192 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: off the bat, a smash hit in that it was innovative. 193 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: It was a pioneering game show. Up to this point, 194 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 2: like you said, this was all new. People answered questions 195 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: on quiz shows or there were puzzles or something like that. 196 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: No one was doing this kind of thing, and Chuck 197 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: Barris literally came up with it. He genuinely, sincerely came 198 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: up with it, and it was it just it put 199 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: him on the map and just kind of showed everybody 200 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: what he could do for better or worse like you 201 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: were saying. 202 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, And the Dating Game was huge. I mean I 203 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: watched a lot of Dating Game as a kid. Jim 204 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: Lang was the original host back then. Eventually Chuck Woolery 205 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: would take over. He'll be back in two and two 206 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: as we all know. Yeah, and if you've never seen 207 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: The Dating Game, the format was there are three potential 208 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: dates hidden on the other side of a screen, and 209 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: a woman interviews these three men and then supposedly goes 210 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: on a date with one of them. But what it 211 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: became known for eventually was was people coming on early 212 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: in their career who were underemployed or unemployed. Actors, so 213 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: Sally Field, Schwarzenegger, Tom Selleck, John hamm Andy Kaufman as 214 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: Laka like workshopping a character as you know, as a 215 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: contestant on the Dating Game. 216 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: As an eligible bachelor on the Dating Game. Oh yeah, locka. 217 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: It was a big deal. It was a huge show. 218 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: And I want to quickly plug this new movie from 219 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: Anna Kendrick, Woman of the Hour on Netflix. 220 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 2: If you heard of it, yeah, I haven't seen it yet, 221 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: though it's good. 222 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: Man Anna Kendrick's directorial debut. She knocked it out of 223 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: the Park. I think it's a really effective movie about 224 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: the true story of a dating game bachelor Rodney Alcala, 225 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: who was a serial killer and he was on the 226 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: game after he had been a serial while he was 227 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: a serial killer, won the dating game and the woman 228 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: who was the bachelorette refused to go on the date 229 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: with him because he was such a creepy weirdo. But 230 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: it's a really effective movie, Like she nails the threat 231 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: that a woman feels generally from men, like more effectively 232 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: than maybe I've seen anyone ever do it, Like crawling 233 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: out of your skin. Wow, just by this guy, like 234 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: being in a parking lot with her at night, like 235 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. 236 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. And plus also at that time too, that was 237 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 2: fully socially supported. Yeah, men could be total creeps and 238 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: put their hands on women, and it was pretty much like, yeah, 239 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: that's just the way things are at the time too. 240 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Good movie though. 241 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 2: So he followed up the Dating game with the newlywoed 242 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: game Huge very similar, except well not that similar. I 243 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: mean the format was different enough that it's not the 244 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: exact same game. But he took married couples. We've talked 245 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 2: about this before, I think on our game shows episode, 246 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: and he would separate the husbands and keep the wives 247 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 2: back and ask them questions about what their husband would 248 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: answer say to some question. Then he'd bring the husbands 249 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: out and they'd go through and see if their answers matched, 250 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: and then invariably, like they would get it wrong, and 251 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 2: some wives would get mad if they got it right, 252 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 2: some couples would kiss. It was like, very cute. They 253 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 2: were newlyweds, right, But the content of both the dating 254 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: Game and the Newlywed Game were so raunchy that in 255 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 2: a lot of cases they were sayments of the dating 256 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 2: Game that Chuck Barriss was like, well, can't use that 257 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: because the guy mentioned as his junk in like a 258 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: really vulgar term. Yeah, Like like he was, yeah, exactly, 259 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: he said, uh, he said even he was surprised at first, 260 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 2: that's not what he was going for. But when it 261 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 2: started to when he could get enough of the innuendo 262 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 2: and everything out as produced shows that were aired and 263 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 2: the popularity that they were met with, He's like, well, 264 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 2: I guess this is the direction I'm going. 265 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh. And so for the first time on TV, 266 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:40,239 Speaker 1: you had people airing parts of their personal lives on television. 267 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: And you had people that Chuck Barriss even acknowledged, like 268 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: the prize money wasn't good on these shows, like they 269 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: were doing these shows to be on TV. 270 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was also partially deliberate on his his his part, 271 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: because I read an interview with him and he said 272 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 2: that like a wife bonk her husband over the head 273 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: with like the card that she has the answer written 274 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: on if he gets a question wrong when there's a 275 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 2: toaster at steak, but if you have like a yacht 276 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 2: at stake right, completely changes the dynamic of the game 277 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 2: and takes away all the fun. Yeah, we could have 278 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: won a yacht exactly. But at the same time, he 279 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: also said that, like the Newlywed game was also famous 280 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: for couples just going totally gaga over pretty mundane prizes. Yeah, 281 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 2: and the other couples would be upset or they'd look 282 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: kind of upset that they didn't win. And he said 283 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: that he would do pre interviews with people and ask 284 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: what their dream prize was, and then he would put 285 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: together three couples that all had the same dream prize, 286 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: so it would hurt that much more when they didn't 287 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: get it. So I don't know which one's true. Or 288 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 2: maybe both are true. But that's another example of him 289 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 2: speaking out of both sides of his mouth, which he 290 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 2: did a lot. 291 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the data shows that eighty percent of newlywed 292 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: couples in the seventies their dream prize was and all 293 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: spence paid trip to Acapulco. 294 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's what they got, whether they liked it 295 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: or not. The most exotic place in the world at 296 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: the time. 297 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: Man a Capolco was so big back then. 298 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 299 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: I didn't even know anything about Acapolco. Is it still around. 300 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 2: I believe it's still around. Don't think it's falling into 301 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: the ocean yet. 302 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: All right, So Barris is killing it with dating game 303 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: and newlywed game. He started just producing show after show 304 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: after show. The only one I will mention is the 305 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: only one from this list that I really watched, which 306 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: was the dollar ninety eight beauty show hosted by the 307 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: late great Rip Taylor. 308 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad that was the one you chose. That 309 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: was I was like, what is that? And I researched 310 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: it and I was like, you have to be kidding me. 311 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: It was so good. The prize was a dollar in 312 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: ninety eight cents and Rip Taylor is just a legend 313 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: and you know, sort of an American gay icon in 314 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: the seventies. 315 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, the guy who were a really bad to pay 316 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: him with tow confetti all the time. 317 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: He's great. 318 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was great. So yeah, that the show was 319 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 2: one of the ones that Chuck Barriss really took a 320 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: lot of heat for. It was described by him as 321 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: a spoof of pageants, right, so they were making fun 322 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 2: of actual pageants, but the way that they made fun 323 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 2: of it was to humiliate and embarrass women who normally 324 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: wouldn't have participated in a traditional beauty contest, that's right. 325 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 2: Rather than celebrating them, they pointed out all the reasons 326 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: why they couldn't have made it on a real beauty contest. 327 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 2: It was just some of the quotes I read were 328 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 2: really really mean. And yeah, it was a hit show 329 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: at the time. I think it was just on for 330 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: a couple of years, but that seems to be about 331 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: how long his shows lasted. But they were like huge 332 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 2: flashes in the pan. Sometimes not all the time. He 333 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: had some flops, but he would you know, a show 334 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 2: like that would be on for a few years and 335 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 2: then it'd just be gone. 336 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to stick up for myself a little bit. 337 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: The eight year old Chuck didn't realize he was being 338 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: fed Oh yeah, blatant misogyny at the time. 339 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: Yeah again, I mean that's how were It's really changed 340 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 2: for the better in so many ways, because yeah, I'm like, 341 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 2: I'm sure grown men were just laughing so hard at 342 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 2: those insults. It's just crazy. 343 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was probably like, my dad's laughing, So let 344 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: me bond with him exactly, or try to at least. 345 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: So no, no, no, do your laugh from the that's 346 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 1: not quite a laugh from the Halloween episode. 347 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: I can't redo it. It'll just be a disappointment. 348 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: Oh man, all right, before we break, we should mention 349 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: that he got into book writing in nineteen seventy four. 350 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: He would, like you said, going to write many books 351 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: and believe, at the end of his life even kind 352 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: of hoped you would be remembered for as an author 353 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: rather than the King of Shlock. But in seventy four 354 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: he published You and Me, Babe, You and Me Babe, 355 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: a fictionalized account of his marriage, which ended a couple 356 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: of years after the book came out. But he gained 357 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: the system, Like we talked about gaming the system for 358 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: the New York Times bestseller list. In that shorty episode 359 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: landed on that New York Time bestseller list. But you know, 360 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: that's how we started his book writing career. Yeah. 361 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 2: And at the time, this is nineteen seventy four, this 362 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 2: is like you pretty much were in the TV industry 363 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: to know to have heard really of Chuck Barris and 364 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: know what he was doing. He was not a cultural 365 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,479 Speaker 2: icon yet, so that was there was a chance at 366 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: the time that he could have been remembered for an author. 367 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 2: But he made a huge, fateful decision in nineteen seventy six. 368 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 2: And we'll talk about that fateful decision right after this. 369 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 3: It slick, all right, we're back. 370 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: Josh left a quite a cliffhanger with the word that 371 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: Chuck Barriss made a very faithful decision, and that faithful 372 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: decision was to be the actual host of what would 373 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: be the thing he was known for, The Gong Show, 374 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: which ran for but two years in daytime, then a 375 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: couple of more years in syndication until nineteen eighty and 376 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: Bears said, initially, like I thought this would be basically 377 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: what we see now with like America's Got Talent, like 378 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: a real talent show with real amateur talent, but he 379 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: got a lot of bad people in there and decided 380 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: to go a different route and the show ended up 381 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: being very bad talent. That was I mean, the premise 382 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: of the show was they performed in front of celebrity, 383 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: a celebrity panel, and if it was so bad the 384 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: celebrity panel, one of them could or all of them 385 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: sometimes could get up and hit the gong, which would 386 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: end their performance. If they managed to make it through 387 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: without the gong, they would rate them on a scale 388 00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: of zero to ten. 389 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, but the celebrity pan, and we're talking like celebrities 390 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 2: of twenty years before panel, or if they were active 391 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 2: celebrities like say Jamie Farr, they were like B list 392 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 2: maybe yeah, they were at. 393 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: The game show celebrities match game level stuff. 394 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 2: You're right, yeah, right, But they the celebrity judges on 395 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: the panel had to wait forty five seconds. He couldn't 396 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: bang the gong forty five seconds. So you'll see some 397 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 2: gong shows where Jamie Farr is just standing there at 398 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 2: the gong for that forty six second so he can 399 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 2: hit it. And then if they made it ninety seconds, 400 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 2: that's when they would judge and potentially win. Yeah, and 401 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: it was just so I found a description of it. 402 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 2: This is Encyclopedia Britannica. It was quote part talent show parentheses, 403 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 2: most contestants conspicuously lacked talent, part demented variety show. That's 404 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 2: that's Encyclopedia Britannica describing this. 405 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was really really funny because the 406 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: talent was bad and you could laugh at that. The 407 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: panelists really yucked it up, and sometimes one would have 408 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: the gong hammer whatever you call the thing you hit 409 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: the gong with is the mallet, I guess and other 410 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: celebrity the panelists would be trying to rip it out 411 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: of their hands and like no, no, no, let it go. 412 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: They're all hamming it up. And Chuck Barris as host 413 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: was he's probably the weirdest TV show host in TV 414 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: show history, and just how he hosted a show and 415 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: how he behaved that the weird things he did it 416 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: was just very awkward and strange. 417 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he would hide his face by pulling hats 418 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 2: like the gold hats that he would wear down over 419 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 2: his eyes, and he'd be talking to the audience like 420 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 2: like continuing on the show, but he clearly wanted to 421 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 2: crawl into that hat and hide. He was beyond awkward. 422 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 2: So when you put all this stuff together, like bad 423 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 2: talent acts that aren't trying to be bad in some cases, 424 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: a really weird, awkward host that's clearly uncomfortable hosting a 425 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: game show, and then you know these these, like you said, 426 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: celebrity judges on the panel, hamming it up like you 427 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 2: have a cult classic today. But at the time, there 428 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 2: was nothing even remotely like this that anyone had ever done. Ever. 429 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 2: It was totally groundbreaking. I was two, but even I 430 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 2: knew that at the time that that was a groundbreaking show. 431 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: You said, Mama, ground baking. That's right, yes, dear. 432 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly what she said too. 433 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: So I don't think we said that if you won, 434 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: you get a little Gong trophy and you get a 435 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: check for five hundred and sixteen dollars and thirty two cents, 436 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: which was the SAG minimum daily rate at that time. 437 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: And what the Gong Show, again in retrospect, became known 438 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: for in some ways was the fact that some real, 439 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, talented people sometimes got their break there, sometimes 440 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: didn't necessarily get their break, but they were it was 441 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: the first time they'd ever done anything you know on 442 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: television before country singer songwriter box Car Willie was on 443 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: the band Oingo Boingo when they were the Mystic Knights 444 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: of the Oingo Boingo. 445 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, they would go on to Their biggest hit was 446 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 2: Weird Science. 447 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: Oh much other, I mean og Go boing Go was great. 448 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean their big hit was that, and 449 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 2: then the other one was dead Man's Party, which I 450 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: think they played tad a party and back to School. 451 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: Probably, And they're probably best known now for the fact 452 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: that their lead singer and songwriter was Danny Elfman. 453 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Danny Elfman. He was a huge composer, especially 454 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 2: in the late eighties early nineties. I mean he did 455 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 2: some really high profile stuff, one of which was the 456 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 2: Simpsons theme. 457 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Batman. 458 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. He also a lot of Tim Burton stuff too. 459 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 2: He also did the theme. He composed the theme to 460 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 2: pee Wee Herman, pee Wee Herman's I don't know if 461 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: it was pee Wee's Playhouse, but certainly pee Wee's Big 462 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: Adventure he composed. And that's interesting because they actually could 463 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 2: have potentially crossed paths on the Gong Show because Owingo 464 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: Boingo wasn't the only one on there. Paul Rubins was 465 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: as he was kind of trying to start to develop 466 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: as Pee Wee Herman character. 467 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was on He was on The Dating Game 468 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: a few times as sort of the proto Pee Wee 469 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: Herman character. The Gong Show fourteen times, and he later 470 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: in his career credited Chuck Barris. He was like, if 471 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: it hadn't been for me getting just the SAG minimum 472 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: payment to be on that show, that made me able 473 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: to focus on my career and then my work with 474 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: the Groundlings improv group and not have to get another job. 475 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: And the fact that like I got to workshop this character, 476 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: it got me in the public eye. Like he really 477 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: kind of credited Chuck Barris with not only helping him, 478 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: but all kinds of struggling artists besides Oeo Bongo and Boxcar. 479 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: Willie Andrey and mccartial was a twelve year old who 480 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: performed on the Gong Show and she would get ca 481 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: as the Broadway lead in Annie because she was discovered 482 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: on that show. So you know, things like that were happening. 483 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: Another singer name, did you mention Cheryl Lynn? 484 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 2: I didn't know. 485 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, she got a recording contract. Another singer because of 486 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: her appearance on The Gong Show. 487 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: So she was when she recorded that disco hit, got 488 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 2: to be real. 489 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: I don't know that song. 490 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 2: It's got to be real, Susu su su su sue. 491 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 2: I gotta have it, baby, you know that song? 492 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: I don't know. 493 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 2: Please don't make me continue. 494 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: That's okay, I'll look it up. 495 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 2: So, yes, she really said disco hit, among other things 496 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 2: from what I know. But there's one more thing I 497 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 2: wanted to to mention about Paul Rubins. He didn't always 498 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: do pee wee. One of the things he did, and 499 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 2: I could not find a video of it, but I 500 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 2: saw it written of He impersonated a dripping faucet as 501 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: one of his acts. 502 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: That's pretty good. 503 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was very creative. 504 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: It was, I mean, he was a groundling. He's a 505 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: very funny guy. He got he was. I mean, he 506 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: was known most for pee wee, obviously, and I think 507 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: he at times felt like he was sort of stuck 508 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: in that character. It became so big he couldn't do 509 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: anything else. But he was also very in love and 510 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: appreciative with that character. You know. 511 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, we saw his you mean, I went to Los 512 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 2: Angeles and saw his live pee Wee pee Wee's Playhouse. 513 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: But that was so it was really good. And yes 514 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 2: he was trapped in Pee Wee Herman for the most part. 515 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 2: But he did a great turn in Mystery Men as 516 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 2: the Spleen. Remember, Yeah, good guy. 517 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: He didn't get enough of those chances, unfortunately. But I 518 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: think we should do a Peewee episode at some point. 519 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 2: You bet, Let's do it a Pee Wee three parter. 520 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: All right, So the end would come for Chuck Barris 521 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: as far as his TV work goes, at his peak, 522 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: this is staggering. And this is you know, mind you 523 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: a time when there were three main television networks, it 524 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: was even pre Fox. As far as programming goes, he 525 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: supplying twenty seven hours a week of programming of TV 526 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: game shows, which is I mean, I don't know what 527 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: percentage of that overall, you know, of their overall programming 528 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: that was, but twenty seven hours a week is your 529 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: your king Daddy TV. If you're doing that, Yeah, you. 530 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: Literally can fill more than a full day of programming 531 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 2: every week of new stuff. 532 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: That's crazy, Oh, totally. And in nineteen eighty sort of 533 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: at the peak, I guess it was starting to wane 534 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: a little bit, he shut it down, sold his TV 535 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: company for supposedly one hundred million bucks, did little TV 536 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: here and there, But basically that was it for him. 537 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons, and there are many, you know, 538 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: taste change and the people were sort of moving away 539 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: from that kind of thing a little bit, I think. 540 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: But the show called Three is a Crowd that he 541 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: pitched in the sixties and then would later do a 542 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: pilot for in the seventies had a lot to do 543 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: with his downfall. 544 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 2: My goodness. So the original version was one of the 545 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 2: most abhorrent ideas anyone's ever come up with for a 546 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 2: game show. It was you were going to have a 547 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 2: man and his wife, and then the man's mistress, and 548 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 2: the mistress and the wife would compete answering questions like 549 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 2: on the Newlywed Game to see who knew him better, 550 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 2: ivable imagine, And apparently they made a pilot. I can't 551 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 2: think about how ruined those people's lives were like, even 552 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 2: if it sounded like a lark at the time, like 553 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 2: just to just to go through that in actuality had 554 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 2: to be totally different from the idea of it. So 555 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 2: he revamped it a little bit and then replaced the 556 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 2: Mistress with the Secretary, and it was still the same format, 557 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 2: and even that alone proved to be extremely awkward and 558 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 2: uncomfortable to watch. 559 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, thinly Veiled Mistress is what they should have called it. 560 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: Sure, Sure, So that didn't last very long, and that 561 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: one seemed to really draw the most ire. He got 562 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 2: the goal of the Grand Goble Award that year from 563 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 2: the National Organization for Women, which dubbed him the year's 564 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 2: largest living Turkey. And this he'd been doing this for 565 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 2: decades already. But that's how bad that show was. That Like, 566 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 2: they gave him that, and they said that this was 567 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 2: from his lifetime body of work. But that's how bad 568 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: Three's a Crowd was received. And apparently the United Auto 569 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 2: Workers also came out against it because they represented a 570 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 2: lot of women workers back then, So the UAW and 571 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: now came out against it really hard. And he ended 572 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 2: up just saying, like, you know what, forget it. I'm done, 573 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,959 Speaker 2: not just I'm going to like fade in the background 574 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 2: and keep producing shows. He I think sold Chuck Bearris 575 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 2: productions and just retreated. 576 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, he retreated, but not before he made one final mistake, 577 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: which was in nineteen eighty the Gong Show movie pretty 578 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: much universally known as one of the worst movies ever made. 579 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: It was Robert Downey Sor was gonna write and direct 580 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: it as a slapstick comedy. Chuck Barris didn't like that direction, 581 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: so he took over as director, turned it to a 582 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: more serious thing about him. And you know Chuck Barris's 583 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: story of and how difficult it was to be sort 584 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: of known as the King of schlock, and it was 585 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: just a mess. Yeah. I didn't see it, but I 586 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: remember when it came out, and I even remember at 587 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: the time it being a massive failure. 588 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a flop right out of the case, 589 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: not just with critics but with audiences too. And I 590 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 2: watched a couple of trailers for it, and I mean, 591 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 2: he didn't seem to have really gotten rid of the 592 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 2: slapstick element. So he tried to combine a serious, sympathetic 593 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 2: look at his life right slapstick, and yeah, it did 594 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: not work at all. If you've ever have you ever 595 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: seen Ring Master the Jerry Springer. 596 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: Movie, Oh no, is it a documentary or no? 597 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: It's a slightly fictionalized version where he plays himself kind 598 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 2: of like our TV show. But it is interesting, Like, 599 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 2: there's no way Jerry Springer didn't watch the Gong Show 600 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 2: movie and say, like, I want to remake that. It's 601 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: basically what he did. 602 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: You know. I think the lesson we can learn here 603 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: from our TV show, from that one and from the 604 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: Gong Show movie is it slightly fictionalized versions of a 605 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: real job. Don't go over to it. 606 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 2: They don't work, don't try, don't even do it. You 607 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 2: want to take a break and come back for the 608 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 2: rest of this. 609 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think everyone knows what's hanging out 610 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: there coming up in act three? Did Chuck Barris assassinate 611 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: people for a living while he was a TV producer? 612 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: Right for this? 613 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck, like you said. In nineteen eighty four, Chuck 614 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 2: Barris released an autobiography called Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. 615 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: The subtitle was an unauthorized autobiography which is pretty funny, 616 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 2: and in it he recounts, apparently as far as the 617 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 2: critics concern were concerned, like pretty masterfully. He recounts his 618 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 2: life as a game show producer as a hated destroyer 619 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 2: of civility and taste, you know, across American culture, and 620 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 2: just how he dealt with that but some of the 621 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 2: other parts were also part of his life at the time, 622 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 2: mixed in where he was going abroad as a CIA 623 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: hitman and carrying out contract killings for the CIA, thirty 624 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 2: three of them by his count, and he would describe 625 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 2: these in graphic detail. Apparently there was one where he 626 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 2: writes about having broken some guy's front teeth because he 627 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 2: jammed the gun with the silencer in there, and it's 628 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 2: really graphic stuff, and he's writing about this totally matter 629 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 2: of factly and seemingly totally un ironic, as if he's 630 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 2: revealing to the world he was both this producer's legendary 631 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 2: producer and secretly at the same time a hitman. 632 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, the the idea was that he was. 633 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: It was the perfect cover because nobody would suspect Chuck Barris, 634 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: TV producer King of Schlock of doing something like this. 635 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: So the CIA just loved it. Did you see the movie? 636 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was if I remember correctly, I 637 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: thought it was pretty good. 638 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty good. It wasn't great, but it 639 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: was pretty good. It was it was a weird movie 640 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: and it was a weird book. When there were some critics, 641 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: I believe Jeff Simon from Buffalo News said that Chuck 642 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: Barris is alive and well and living in schizophrenia. Other 643 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: reviewers tried to suggest that it was a metaphor and 644 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: that it's really about a guy that's struggling so much 645 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: with his life as an outsider that it was you know, 646 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: it was all just metaphor. 647 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 2: Wait wait, you got to finish the rest like this 648 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 2: A Gorman guy really missed the mark if you ask me, all. 649 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: Right, suggesting with this conceit is that he spent his 650 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: life as an outsider, an assassin of sorts, dealing with 651 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: a species that frightens and baffles him. 652 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like terribly, terribly terrible. 653 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: I think a lot of leeway there for what Barris 654 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: was intending, and I don't know what he was intending, 655 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: and no one really does. The only interview with any 656 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: clear sort of indication that it was all a put 657 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: on was when he gave to Regis and Cindy Garvey 658 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: on the Morning Show when the book was released, when 659 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: he very, uh, you know, in a very straightforward way, 660 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: said I was not in CIA. I wanted to be 661 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: got an FBI background check, but then got my job 662 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: working in television, which is what I wanted to do, 663 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: and that the version of me in this book is 664 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: just a character. But he did say a character crucified 665 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: by the critics for inner chain the public. So there, 666 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, there was maybe a little bit of metaphor 667 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: to it. After all. 668 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 2: What's weird to me is it doesn't seem that anyone 669 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 2: just took it as face value. Is not even a 670 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 2: metaphor just an interesting thing that he did in his 671 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 2: autobiography right punch it up. Everybody seems to just be 672 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 2: totally perplexed by it. The best explanation I saw apparently 673 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 2: he hinted in some interviews that he used it as 674 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 2: a device to point out that all of those critics 675 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 2: and people in like government who criticized him so openly 676 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 2: and so meanly in a lot of cases too, would 677 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 2: also have totally praised him for killing on behalf of 678 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 2: the American government. That seems like a stretch as well, 679 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 2: But it's better than Ed Gorman's interpretation, I think. 680 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's sort of that. And you know, 681 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: I do agree with this as the American way as 682 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: far as entertainment goes, which is boo sex and yay violence. 683 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: But you know, there's a difference between you know, he 684 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: wasn't filming like tasteful love scenes. It was some pretty 685 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: blatant misogyny happening. 686 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean and through over and over again. Even so, like, 687 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 2: like I was saying a couple of times at the time, 688 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 2: this is just how things were. So it really goes 689 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 2: to show just how much over the line he went 690 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 2: that he was roundly criticized and made fun of him, 691 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 2: mocked by people for the level of misogyny his shows displayed. 692 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 2: That's how misogynistic his shows were in a lot of cases. 693 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. The CIA, for their as far as 694 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: they go, they were like, of course. In two thousand 695 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: and two, a spokesman named Tom chris Bell for the 696 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: CIA said, it's absurd. It sounds like he's been standing 697 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,439 Speaker 1: a little too close to the gong all those years, which, 698 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: of course Chuck Barris said, yeah, of course, that's what 699 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: they're going to say. Have you ever heard the CIA 700 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: acknowledged someone was an assassin? 701 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 2: Right, it's a good, good, good point. 702 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's seemingly a good way to sell books, 703 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: even though it didn't turn out that way, right. 704 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 2: No, it languished an obscurity for twenty years before his 705 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 2: friend Andrew Lazar, producer picked Up. Apparently sold less than 706 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 2: a thousand copies, which was about one percent of the 707 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 2: run the first and I guess well the first run. 708 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,919 Speaker 2: They later re released it when the movie came out. 709 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 2: But yeah, one of his friends was like, you know, 710 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 2: I've always thought this was a pretty cool book. Let's 711 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 2: see what Charlie Kaufman can do to it. So they 712 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 2: had Charlie Kaufman write a screenplay based on the book. 713 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 2: And no one's ever seen that, No one, as far 714 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,439 Speaker 2: as I know, well, I don't know that, no one's 715 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 2: ever seen it. There's a script out there that he wrote, 716 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 2: but it never got made because George Clooney came along and, 717 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 2: like I said, made the decision of Nope, we're gonna 718 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 2: present all this his face value. We're not gonna do 719 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 2: anything weird with it. We're just gonna basically shoot the 720 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 2: movie version of his book. 721 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, an interesting choice, and it was a 722 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: pretty good movie. Like Sam Rockwell was great as barrass 723 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: like the perfect casting. But man, Charlie Kaufman is so 724 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: unique in his take and spin on things. I would 725 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: have really loved to see in what that movie would 726 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 1: have been. 727 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if the script is out there, surely 728 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 2: somebody had the wherewithal to be like, this needs to 729 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 2: be out there in the world. 730 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: Maybe we can get our hands on it. I remember 731 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: years ago my friend Stacy, who works still works in 732 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: the film business, would give me screenplays at the time 733 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: when she would get them from her jobs, just to 734 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: I was trying to learn how to write scripts, and 735 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: so it's always good to read scripts. And she gave 736 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: me one called The Orchid Thief like Charlie Kaufman, and 737 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: I read it, and I read it in a night 738 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: and called her the next day and I was like, Stacy, 739 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 1: I've never read anything like this before in my life, Like, 740 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: this is the craziest movie and narrative I've ever heard of. 741 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: And that would become adaptations, and that's the first time 742 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: I had heard of Charlie. Charliekaufman was reading that script 743 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: like before they even made the movie. This is in 744 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: pre production. 745 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you follow that up with being John 746 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 2: Malkovich or vice versa. I can't remember. No, No, he's 747 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 2: so yeah, because John Cusack plays a cameo in adaptation, right, yeah, yeah, 748 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 2: I would like to read that script too, the movie itself. 749 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 2: Did you notice I don't know if this is just 750 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 2: my interpretation, but in the early two thousands, about the 751 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 2: first decade, movies were like overly polished, overly tight. Yeah, 752 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,359 Speaker 2: the Bob Crane movie, what was that one? 753 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: Oh h At one point your favorite movie auto Focus? 754 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 2: Auto Focus? Right, Yes, it was just everything is just 755 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 2: too polish, too perfect, and I think that was the 756 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 2: Confessions of a Dangerous Mind was another good example. Catch 757 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 2: Me If you Can, I think, is the pinnacle example 758 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 2: of this where these movies are so refined and so 759 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 2: polished and so clearly done by Hollywood people who have 760 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 2: been doing it for so long that they've kind of 761 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 2: lost the not edge, but just the heart to what 762 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 2: they're doing that it's not actually particularly entertaining for me. 763 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean with Catch Me if you Can, it 764 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 1: makes sense because it's Spielberg. But Auto Focus was Paul Schrader, 765 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: so that's I mean, he's not known for being slick 766 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: in Hollywood, so that is a I just remember early 767 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 1: on when you and I were getting to be friends 768 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: at work, he talked a lot about Auto Focus. 769 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 2: I love that movie at first, Yeah, I do. I 770 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 2: haven't seen it for a while. Yeah, good movie, Yeah, 771 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 2: Greg Near what kind of casting was that? 772 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: It's just nuts. Yeah, he was good though. 773 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 2: So spoiler alert. Chuck Bears died. He died in twenty 774 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 2: seventeen at aged the ripe old age of eighty seven, 775 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 2: although it's not entirely clear he was eighty seven, eighty eight, 776 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,959 Speaker 2: eighty six, Yeah, but that's what they put down in 777 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,359 Speaker 2: his obituary at eighty seven. He also wrote some other 778 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 2: books over the years. He did a follow up to 779 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 2: Confessions of a Dangerous Mind called Oh what was it? 780 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 2: Called Badgrass Never Died. I think that he released in 781 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 2: two thousand and four, and he doesn't mention he talks 782 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 2: about a lot of the same scenes, does not mention 783 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 2: any of the CIA stuff in that one, which. 784 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: Is just is almost like a two over. 785 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he was toying with people. I'm 786 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 2: not sure, but that's my take. And he said that 787 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 2: he wanted to be remembered I think as a novelist. 788 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 2: I think you said, and that's just not how he 789 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,320 Speaker 2: was remembered. But apparently he was a good enough author 790 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,760 Speaker 2: that he's also remembered in part as a novelist. 791 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, Chuck Barris. 792 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 2: There's one other thing he invented, syndication. Chuck, Oh really, yeah. 793 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 2: He created a game called Parent Game, and in nineteen 794 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,399 Speaker 2: seventy two, ABC was like, no, we don't actually want 795 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 2: to do this, so he bought the rights to the 796 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 2: game back from them and went directly to stations and 797 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 2: sold at to stations, hence creating the entire concept of syndication. 798 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, I mean a real visionary in a 799 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: lot of ways, and just a kind of a kooky guy. 800 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Chuck said he was kind of a kooky guy, 801 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 2: and as anyone who's ever listened to stuff you should 802 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 2: know before knows that Chuck just unlocked listener mail. 803 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: That's right. Quick correction on ADHD guys, And we do 804 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: want to read this one because it's kind of an 805 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 1: important thing we got wrong. Oh no, I want to 806 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: point out a minor correction. Towards the end. It was 807 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,399 Speaker 1: mentioned a couple of brand named drugs that are amphetamine 808 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: based stimulants, Adderall Vivens and Straterra. Straterra, though Guys, is 809 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: one of the non stimulant ADHD medications. It is a 810 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: selective nora epinephrine reuptake inhibitor and is not a controlled substance. 811 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: I couldn't help point it out because I'm a pharmacist, 812 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: and miscategorizing a pharmaceutical I could keep listeners from trying 813 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: something that could help them if they're adverse to amphetamines. 814 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 1: Point regardless, I have to say I've always been meaning 815 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,439 Speaker 1: to send in an email. Thanks for the work you've 816 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: done Avid Listener for five years and it's truly fascinating 817 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: to learn about the variety of topics. And I really 818 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,919 Speaker 1: love the chemistry you guys have between each other. 819 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 2: They get it. 820 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: And that is from Michael on. 821 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Michael, we really appreciate that that was 822 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 2: a huge miss and thanks for following up and letting 823 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 2: us tell everybody else that we got it wrong, because 824 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 2: that is pretty important. And we got a lot of 825 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,240 Speaker 2: emails from a lot of people about the ADHD episode, 826 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 2: So thanks to everybody who wrote. 827 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: In big time. It would seemed like a pretty important 828 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 1: suite to a lot of folks in that means a 829 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: lot of time. 830 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, we actually got people who are like 831 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 2: I had no idea that I had ADHD until I 832 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 2: listened to this episode and realized you were talking about me. 833 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 2: Beat for beat, like I can't. That's just nuts that 834 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 2: were running around diagnosing people with ADHD with the podcast. 835 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I had even several personal friends that knew 836 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,479 Speaker 1: they had HD ADHD that were like, I never knew 837 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,800 Speaker 1: this part of my life was due to that even 838 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 1: And you know that's great. It makes us feel good, Yeah. 839 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,319 Speaker 2: For sure. So if you want to make us feel good, 840 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 2: or you want to point out something we got wrong, 841 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 2: doesn't matter, you can do it via email. Send it 842 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:11,720 Speaker 2: off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 843 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 844 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 845 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.