1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. A couple 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: of months ago, we got a pile of listener requests 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: for an episode on Cecilia Payne Gaposhkin. She was an 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: astronomer who made a lot of firsts, including being the 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: first person to figure out that stars are made of 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: mostly hydrogen and helium. Usually, when we get a whole 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: bunch of listener requests of one right after the other, 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: I can figure out what prompted them, like usually there 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: was a Google doodle or there's a viral post that's 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: circulating around this time, it was kind of a mystery 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: because there is a new biography that came out earlier 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: this year, which is Donovan Moore's What Stars Are Made Of, 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: which is beautiful. I recommend it um and there have 16 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: been some viral posts, but none of this lined up 17 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: with when we got this file of requests. And then 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: on top of that, when I tried to go through 19 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: our inbox so I could make a list of all 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: the listeners that I wanted to thank. Here at the 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: top of the episode. I found nothing, zero emails. I 22 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: remember them coming in, yet I could not find them. Honestly, though, 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: this feels like just a mysterious gift from the universe, 24 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: because by the time I got to this end of 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: the research for this, I just loved Celia Payne Copashkin. 26 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: I don't love the sexism she faced that we're going 27 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: to talk about, but like her whole story I really 28 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: delighted in She grew up in a society that just 29 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: did not prioritize education for girls and that regarded women's 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: academic ambitions as suspect. But her determination and her creativity 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: at getting around that just was so delightful to me. 32 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: So that's what we're going to talk about today. So 33 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: Cecilia Payne was born in wind Over, England, on May tenth, 34 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: ndred Her father, Edward was a barrister and a historian, 35 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: and her mother, Emma, was an artist. Cecilia was the 36 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: oldest of Edward and Emma's children, with a younger brother, 37 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: Humphrey and a sister, Leonora. From a very early age, 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: Cecilia was curious and imaginative, with a keen memory and 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: sharp observation. Their home was full of music, art, and literature, 40 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: and they had a large library. They were a pretty 41 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: comfortable middle class family. They had enough money to afford 42 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: household help, and that allowed Emma to keep working as 43 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: an art copyist even when her children were still really small. 44 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: But that changed after Edward's sudden death when Cecilia was four. 45 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: Edward had married Emma somewhat later in life, and he 46 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: died the day after Christmas nineteen o four, at the 47 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: age of sixty. His body was found in a river 48 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: where he had apparently drowned. He had been experiencing some 49 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: heart trouble in some dizziness, which may have contributed to 50 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: his death, but it's it's just not clear or exactly 51 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: what happened. Although Emma received a widow stipend after edwards death, 52 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: it really didn't match what his income had been, and 53 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: money was a lot tighter. Even so, Emma tried to 54 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: make sure that her children were immersed in culture. She 55 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: would scrape together enough to travel and attend concerts and 56 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: go to museums. The children's upbringing also wasn't always conventional. 57 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: When Cecilia asked for a bedtime story, her mother read 58 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: her The Odyssey. When Emma decided Cecilia was too old 59 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: for stories. Cecilia started by telling herself stories at bedtime, 60 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: before moving on to making up bedtime stories for her 61 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: younger sister. Although Cecilia was really bright and driven to learn, 62 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: when she started school, she had some struggles. The teachers 63 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: at the little school across the street from their home, 64 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: which she was attending. They encouraged her, but Cecilia was 65 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: also left handed, and they taught her to write with 66 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: her right hand. This really deeply frustrated her, so she 67 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: taught herself to be more ambidextrous and to do things 68 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: like right upside down, using techniques and exercises from a 69 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: pamphlet that her great grandfather had written. That pamphlet was 70 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: called painting with both hands. I know so many people 71 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: who were natural lefties that were forced to write right handed, 72 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: and it was never delightful for anybody. No. I my 73 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: preschool teachers kept telling me to put the pencil in 74 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: the hand that felt most comfortable in and I was like, 75 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about, so I just 76 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: imitated what the other children were doing. UM and I, 77 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: like I to this day don't know if I really 78 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: should have learned to write with my left hand, and 79 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: that's why my penmanship has been terrible my entire life. 80 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: Or maybe my penmanship is just terrible for my entire life. 81 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: You know, everybody scribbling. My dad was a lefty that 82 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: was pushed to right handedness, and his penmanship has always 83 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: been a little bit fraught, looking like it always looks stressed. Um. 84 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: But when Cecilia was eight, she was out in the 85 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: family's orchard when she spotted a bat or kid growing 86 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: in the grass. She recognized it not because she had 87 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: seen one before, but because her mother had described one 88 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: to her once. And when she convinced her mother that yes, 89 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: there really was a b orchid growing out in the orchard, 90 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: Emma had the gardener transplanted to a better location. And 91 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: after this experience, Cecilia decided that the one thing she 92 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: wanted to do was study nature and science. It was 93 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: a few years before she could really do that, though. 94 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: When Cecilia was twelve, the family moved from Wendover, which 95 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: was a little more rural surrounded by woods and hills, 96 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: to the Bayswater neighborhood of London. They moved there for 97 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: the sake of her brother Humphrey's education, to give him 98 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: access to a better public school. Cecilia was enrolled in 99 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: a parochial school called St. Mary's. That school was really 100 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: not a good fit for Cecilia, though a big part 101 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: of her school day was religious instruction, which really did 102 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: not interest her so much so that she would pretend 103 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: to faint to try to get out of going to chapel. 104 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: She also tried to get a bookbinder to make her 105 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: an addition of Plato in a Bible cover so that 106 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: she could read classical philosophy during her religion classes. Unfortunately, 107 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 1: that brilliant plan was sorted because the bookbinder said no 108 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, apparently the bookbinder was appalled by that 109 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: very suggestion. On top of all of that, girls who 110 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: have truly wanted to learn and who excelled at school 111 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: were viewed with a lot of suspicion. When Cecilia, who 112 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: was in the youngest class, came in second out of 113 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: the entire school in a year and exam, she wasn't 114 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: praised for her performance. The other students were scolded for 115 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 1: allowing her to beat them. Classes for girls were also 116 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: mostly focused on reading and writing, not on the subjects 117 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: that Cecilia felt a real passion for Cecilia turned to 118 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: the family library to try to make up for what 119 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: she saw as huge holes in her education. And while 120 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: she did love theater, opera, music in literature, which were 121 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: all represented there, what she really wanted to study with science, 122 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: and there were almost no books on science on the 123 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: family shelves. She finally found one book on botany, but 124 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: it was in German and French, which she did not speak, 125 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: so she got a dictionary from school and laboriously translated 126 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: that book into English. She turned to this kind of 127 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: resourcefulness again and again during her education, including, for example, 128 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: transcribing an entire textbook from the library by hand before 129 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: she started at Cambridge because she could not afford to 130 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: buy a copy of her own. Eventually, the teachers at 131 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: St Mary's started to get really tired of Cecilia's persistence 132 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: at demanding to study science and to be more challenged 133 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: in her schoolwork. In addition to trying to teach herself 134 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: outside of school, she was essentially badgering her teachers into 135 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: tutoring her in other subjects than the ones that the 136 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: school offered. Finally, somebody told her that the only way 137 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: she might be able to study science was as part 138 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: of training to become a school teacher, so she volunteered 139 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: to teach Sunday school classes to try to prepare herself. 140 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: Although she focused her Sunday school teaching a lot more 141 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: on science than on the Bible Today's lesson dandeliance what uh? 142 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: Cecilia spent years as St Mary's butting up against all 143 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: kinds of barriers to the education that she wanted for herself, 144 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: and that, of course, was frustrating and exasperating for everyone involved. 145 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: Teachers and administrators saw her behavior as inappropriate and disruptive, 146 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: and when she was seventeen and had just a year 147 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: left to go, she was expelled. However, it does seem 148 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: that the headmistress of St Mary's wrote a letter encouraging St. 149 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 1: Paul's Girls School, which had been established by the Worshipful 150 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: Company of Mercers, to allow her to enroll there for 151 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: her last year. St. Paul's was far more focused on 152 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: the academic success of its students than St Mary's had been, 153 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: and once she got there, Cecilia was finally encouraged in 154 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: her pursuit of science, and she excelled in other courses 155 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: there as well, including polishing her skills and public speaking 156 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: and studying music, which was actually being taught by Gustav Holst, 157 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: who was not a famous composer. Yet when Holst finished 158 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 1: his orchestral suite that's known as The Planets, Cecilia was 159 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: actually one of the students who got to hear a 160 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: performance of it. That is the coolest. Later on, Cecilia 161 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: Payne Gaposchkin wrote in her autobiography that the first time 162 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: she walked through the door at St. Paul's, she thought, quote, 163 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: I shall never be lonely again. Now I can think 164 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: about science. She finally had the freedom to really pursue 165 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: her ambitions, and one of those ambitions was to go 166 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 1: to Cambridge, which we'll talk about after a sponsor break. 167 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: Although Cecilia Payne really thrived in the year that she 168 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: spent at St. Paul's, she still had a huge amount 169 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: of catching up to do if she wanted to go 170 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: to the University of Cambridge. It wasn't just the challenge 171 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: of getting into school there. She could only afford to 172 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: go if she got a scholarship and aside from her 173 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: self taught knowledge of botany from that book she translated 174 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: herself out of the dictionary. She was way behind and 175 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: all the sciences and in math, but she devoted herself 176 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: to catching up, and in the end, not only did 177 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: she get into Cambridge, but she also scored well enough 178 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: on a competitive exam to earn the only scholarship that 179 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: was big enough to cover all of her expenses in full. 180 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: Cecilia started at Newnham College, which is a women's college 181 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: at Cambridge, in nineteen nineteen. Getting into Cambridge, though, did 182 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: not mean that she had left behind the kind of 183 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: sexism that was such a big part of her earlier education. 184 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: Newnham is a women's college, and it had strict rules 185 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: for students behavior, from standards of dress to curfews to 186 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: a ban on male visitors. There were also specific rules 187 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: for Newnham students when they attended lectures or other functions 188 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: at other Cambridge colleges, and even though all the students 189 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: at Cambridge were meeting the same academic requirements regard us 190 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: of their gender, only men were actually awarded degrees. There 191 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: were also expectations about which courses women should take. There 192 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: wasn't really a barrier to studying the natural sciences in general, 193 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: but in the first part of their time at Cambridge, 194 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: women studying the natural sciences were expected to focus on botany. 195 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: Botany was like the women's science. Students selected two other 196 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: subjects to go along with that primary focus, and the 197 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: companion courses for botany were typically zoology and chemistry. So 198 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: if a woman wanted to study science at Cambridge during 199 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 1: this time, it was just generally understood that she would 200 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: start out studying botany, zoology and chemistry. Well, of course, 201 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: because ladies like flowers and animals. Correct uh. In spite 202 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: of Cecilia's childhood experience with the b orchid and her 203 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: self taught study of botany, by this point, she was 204 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: really a lot more interested in mystery and physics at 205 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: the same time. Trying to make either of those her 206 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: primary course of study seemed incredibly risky, given how shaky 207 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: her earlier instruction in these subjects had been, and in 208 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: the math that was required, which she was also behind on, 209 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: and in the uphill battle she would face as a 210 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: young woman pursuing either of these subjects. So she initially 211 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: chose to study botany and chemistry as expected, but she 212 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: added physics to that rather than zoology. But on December 213 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: second of nineteen nineteen, Cecilia Payne had an experience that 214 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: completely shifted her focus, much like the discovery of that 215 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: b orchid had when she was a child, this time 216 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: it was a lecture by Arthur Stanley Eddington. Eddington had 217 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: been part of an expedition to view the total solar 218 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: eclipse that took place on May nineteenth of nineteen nineteen, 219 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: and that expedition was to measure how the Sun's gravity 220 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: affected light from stars. We talked about that expedition in 221 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: our episode on historical eclipses. The data gathered during this 222 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: eclipse supported Einstein's theory of general relativity, and Cecilia was 223 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: absolutely captivated by this lecture. She later wrote, quote, the 224 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: result was a complete transformation of my world picture. When 225 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: I returned to my room, I found that I could 226 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: write down the lecture word for word. At about this 227 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 1: same time, Cecilia was also starting to question her choice 228 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: of studying botany. Most of the material that she was 229 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: hearing in lectures was already familiar to her, but at 230 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: the same time, she was so inexperienced at the more 231 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: practical side that she made mistakes that caused her to 232 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: doubt herself. After Eddington's lecture, she really wished she could 233 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: change her focus to astronomy, but that was blatly impossible. 234 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: Astronomy was classified under math, not under natural science, and 235 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: students could not jump into a totally different course of 236 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: study that way, So she changed her main focus from 237 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: botany to physics, and since students were allowed to attend 238 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: lectures outside their particular field of study, she also went 239 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: to astronomy lectures and spent as much time at Cambridge 240 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: Observatory as she could. With the help of astronomer L. J. Comrie. 241 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: She also repaired the clock at Newnham's small observatory and 242 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: started spending her evenings there making observations and recording data. 243 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: At one point, she ran into Arthur Eddington again at 244 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: Cambridge Observatory and told him that she wanted to be 245 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: an astronomer. When he realized how set she was on 246 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: this idea and how much study she had already done 247 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: on her own, he recommended some journals that she could 248 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: use to continue her studies, and also told her that 249 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: she could use the Cambridge Observatory library. As all of 250 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: this had been happening, debate had been ongoing about how 251 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: women's education should work at Cambridge, and on October one, 252 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: the Cambridge Council of the Senate voted that women would 253 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: be granted titular degrees from the university. This was better 254 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: than the previous set up, which was that women who 255 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: completed all the requirements of the degree were awarded nothing, 256 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: but it also meant that women were to be given 257 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: the title of the degree, but not the degree itself. 258 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: This sparked outrage, mainly from men who objected to women 259 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: being acknowledged at all. In early nine, Cecilia Payne was 260 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: getting towards the end of her study at Cambridge, and 261 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: she had spent those years dividing her time, adding as 262 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: much astronomy as she could to her study of physics 263 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: and natural sciences. She had learned from luminaries like Niels Bore, 264 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: who was awarded the Nobel Prize for his work with 265 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: Adams Ino. She also studied computing, including joining the computing 266 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: section at the British Astronomical Association, and she had been 267 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: elected to the Royal Astronomical Society while still a student 268 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: as well. She had done all this while facing derision 269 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: and resentment, not just from her mail peers, but also 270 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: in some cases from the faculty. At lectures, women were 271 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: required to sit in the front row by themselves. She 272 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: described how at the start of his lectures, Ernest Rutherford 273 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: would very pointedly begin ladies and gentlemen. She had also 274 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: come to understand that she just had no future as 275 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: an astronomer if she stayed in England because of her sex. 276 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: The only path that was really open to her was 277 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: still becoming a school teacher. LJ. Comrie offered to take 278 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: her to a lecture that Harlowe Shapley, who was director 279 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: of the Harvard College Observatory, was giving in London. Camre 280 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: could introduce the two of them, and then maybe that 281 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: would open a door for Cecilia to continue her education 282 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,359 Speaker 1: in the United States, where she might have more opportunities 283 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: than she did in the UK. This worked, Payne told 284 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: Shapley directly that she wanted to come to Harvard to 285 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: work for him. Shaple encouraged this idea, casually suggesting that 286 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: she might replace Annie jump Canon, Harvard Observatories Curator of 287 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: Astronomical Photographs when she retired. The was more of a 288 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: reflection on the rules that women filled at Harvard rather 289 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: than an actual job offer. Yeah, it was sort of 290 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: like off handed, Hey, maybe you could be Annie's replacement 291 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: because obviously a woman does that job, and a woman 292 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: would do that job anyway. Just as going to Cambridge 293 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: had required Cecilia to gain admission and also to get 294 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 1: a scholarship, going to Harvard also required her to secure 295 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: some funding, otherwise she just would not have the money 296 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: to do it. On February she wrote to Shapily about 297 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: trying to get a fellowship. She also got recommendations from 298 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: Arthur Eddington, L. J. Comery, and her old headmistress at St. Paul's. 299 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: It really seems like she got a recommendation from every 300 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: conceivable person that could give her one. She also applied 301 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: for as many scholarships and fellowships as she could to 302 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: try to scrape together enough money to afford her passage 303 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: across the ocean, to buy appropriate clothing, and to pay 304 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: for her living expenses while she was there, and once 305 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: again she was successful. As she prepared to leave England, 306 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: astrophysicist Edward Arthur Milne suggests that if he were in 307 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: her place, he would take advantage of the wealth of 308 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: data available at Harvard to verify an equation that astrophysicist 309 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: meg nod Saha had developed in nineteen This equation expressed 310 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: the relationship between a star's pressure and temperature in the 311 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: ionization of the elements in the star. We'll get to 312 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: what she did with that after one more sponsor break. 313 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: Cezlia Paine left Cambridge, England, for Cambridge, Massachusetts in September 314 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: of nine. Her fellowship at Harvard College Observatory gave her 315 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: the freedom to choose the focus of her research, and, 316 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: as E. A. Milne had suggested, she started studying photographic 317 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: plates of the spectra of stars to try to confirm 318 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,120 Speaker 1: SAHA's equation to make sense of what she was doing. 319 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: All the way back in sixteen sixty six, Isaac Newton 320 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: used a prism to separate sunlight into a continuous series 321 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: of colors, using the word spectrum to describe what he saw. Later, 322 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: William Wallaceton and Joseph Frownhoffer each observed that if you 323 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: looked at the sun's spectrum and find enough detail, there 324 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: were dark lines within that spectrum. These became known as 325 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: Fraunhofer lines or absorption lines, but Fraunhoffer did not have 326 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: an explanation for what those lines were or why they 327 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: were there. Then, in eighteen fifty five, Robert Bunsen built 328 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: on earlier designs to develop the Bunsen burner. The Bunsen 329 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: burner produced an almost colorless flame, and that made it 330 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: useful for studying the light that was produced by heating 331 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: or burning different elements. Not long after, Gustav Kershoff suggested 332 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: that they could use a prism to separate this light 333 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: into its spectrum. That would make it easier to distinguish 334 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: the fine differences in flames that have really similar colors. 335 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: This was an early version of the spectroscope. Through this work, 336 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: Kershof discovered that each element had its own unique set 337 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: of spectral lines when it was heated, almost like a fingerprint. 338 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: We talked a little bit about this when we talked 339 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: about the discovery of helium m Emission lines come from 340 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: the wavelengths of light that elements emit when they're excited, 341 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: and absorption lines appear when wavelengths of light are absorbed 342 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: in between when they're produced and when we observe them. Today, 343 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: we know that the presence of these lines relates to 344 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: the structure of the atom and what happens when atoms 345 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: are excited to different levels of energy. But at the 346 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: end of the nineteenth century, physicists and astronomers knew that 347 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: these spectra existed, but they didn't quite know what they meant. 348 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: At Harvard College Observatory, astronomers started using these spectra to 349 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: classify stars. Wilhelmina PS Fleming, who had been the housekeeper 350 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: of observatory director Edward C. Pickering, developed a classification system 351 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: that was primarily based on the strength of the hydrogen 352 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: lines in these spectra. Annie Jump Cannon later simplified and 353 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: refined this system into one that still exists today. The 354 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: types O, B, A, F, G, K, and M often 355 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: put into the mnemonic ol be a fine girl Kiss 356 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: me that was purportedly coined by Henry Norris Russell. There 357 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: are also a few other classifications that can be added 358 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: into that mnemonic, and some other attempts at mnemonics that 359 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: are less gendered, relying on the idea that, like, you 360 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: want a woman to kiss you, maybe whether she's really 361 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: up for that or not that includes only bad astronomers 362 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: forget generally known mnemonics. But, as was the case with 363 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: Fraunhofer's discovery of absorption spectrum, Cannon didn't really have a 364 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: sense of why stars fit into these categories or what 365 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: those categories meant she was cataloging, not analyzing or interpreting, 366 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: but the Observatory did have more than two hundred thousand 367 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: photographic late's documenting stars spectrum organized into these categories thanks 368 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: to the work of Williamina Fleming, Anti Jumpcannon, and other 369 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: women at Harvard Observatory. I have Anti Jumpcannon on my 370 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: list for a future episode, just in case folks are 371 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: like I wish you had an episode on any jump Canon. 372 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: After getting to Harvard, Cecilia Payne got to work examining 373 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: these plates through a jeweller's loop. She worked with an 374 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: intense and unshakable focus, sometimes going days without sleep, Shaine 375 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: smoking the whole time, rarely remembering to empty the ashtray. 376 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: A lot of accounts of her office talk about the 377 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: like overflowing ashtray. Eventually, she realized that she was seeing 378 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: four different ionizations of silicon represented in the spectra on 379 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: the plates. This ultimately led her to the discovery that 380 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: the variation she was seeing among these spectra were coming 381 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: from different levels of ionization of the elements that were 382 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: involved based on the stars temperature, not on actual differences 383 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: in the amounts of elements that were present there. Through 384 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: all of this work folded into SAHA's equation. Pain gradually 385 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: came to understand that all the stars had roughly the 386 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: same proportions of eighteen different elements, with hydrogen and helium 387 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: being most abundant. However, this was totally contrary to the 388 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: theories of the day. Most astronomers and physicists at the time. 389 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: We're working from the principle of uniformity, that all the 390 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: planets and stars were made of the same elements, that 391 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: Earth was in about the same proportions, and while there 392 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: were a few elements that did have similar proportions to 393 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: what was found on Earth. She discovered that helium was 394 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: one thousand times more abundant than expected, and hydrogen, which 395 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: we now know is the most prevalent element in the universe, 396 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: was a million times more abundant. So Pain had always 397 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: been ambitious, but she also realized that it was possible 398 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: that she had not just discovered something that would completely 399 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: rewrite our understanding of the stars, that maybe she had 400 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: just made a mistake, like it's a short walk to 401 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: I made a mistake, than I have just discovered something 402 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: that fundamentally changes our understanding of how the universe works. 403 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: So she painstakingly went through her work over and over 404 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: trying to figure out where she had made an error, 405 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: and she could not find one because she had not 406 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: made one. She was right. At this point, Harlow Shapley 407 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: was trying to transform Harvard Observatory into a Department of 408 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: Astronomy at Harvard. He convinced Paine to use her findings 409 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: to write a thesis which would allow her to earn 410 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: the first PhD in astronomy ever to be awarded at 411 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: Harvard University. At first, Paine doubted that this would be 412 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: worth her time, but she ultimately agreed. However, some of 413 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: the people who were involved with reviewing and approving this 414 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: thesis doubted her conclusions. In particular, Henry Norris Russell, whose 415 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: work hinged on the principle of uniformity, demanded that she 416 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: allow for the possibility that she was just mistaken. Her 417 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: thesis included the caveat quote the outstanding discrepancies between the 418 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: astrophysical and terrestrial abundances are displayed for hydrogen and helium. 419 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: The enormous abundance derived for these elements in the stellar 420 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: atmospheres is almost certainly not real. Russell would not have 421 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: accepted Pain's thesis without this concession. So if she hadn't 422 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: included it, she wouldn't have had a thesis at all 423 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: or been awarded a PhD. So including this couching was 424 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: a pragmatic decision. This wasn't something that she brooded over, 425 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: but it was something she regretted. She would later say, 426 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: quote as a warning to the young, if you are 427 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: sure of your facts, you should defend your position, even 428 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: with its downplaying of the most revolutionary for findings. In 429 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, Auto Struva and Delta Zieberg's called this thesis, 430 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: which was published under the title Stellar Atmospheres, a Contribution 431 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: to the Observational Study of high temperature and the Reversing 432 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: layers of Stars. They called it quote undoubtedly the most 433 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: brilliant PhD thesis ever written in astronomy. It was also 434 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: the first monograph ever to be published by the Harvard Observatory. 435 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: Cecilia Payne was awarded a PhD from Radcliffe College in 436 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: as Harvard itself did not yet award degrees to women. 437 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: Harlow Shapley had thought her work was so obviously profound 438 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: and worthy that, after she took her final oral exam 439 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: for her PhD. He didn't tell her she had passed. 440 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: She only found out after astronomer Margaret Harwood found her 441 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: weeping inconsolably in her office, thinking that she must have failed. 442 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: I want a time travel and hug her, I want 443 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: to time travel, and yell at Harlow Shapley. Well, I 444 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: feel like though his thing wasn't even he was just thoughtless. Yeah, 445 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: he was like, obviously you passed. How what Anyway? Eventually, 446 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: the field of astronomy did come to realize that Paine's 447 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: conclusions about the compositions of stars and the abundance of 448 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: hydrogen and helium and the universe work wrecked. This included 449 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: Henry Norris Russell, who acknowledged that fact in the completion 450 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: of her PhD meant that Pain no longer had fellowship 451 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: money to live off of, so she started looking for 452 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: a job. She got offers from other observatories and universities, 453 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: but she ultimately stayed at Harvard, where she was hired 454 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 1: as Harlow Shapley's assistant. This didn't pay very much, and 455 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: she had to pawn some of her belongings to make 456 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: ends meet. In the gap between when her fellowship ended 457 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: and when her job started, but it was enough for 458 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: her to move out of the dorm and into her 459 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: own apartment as long as she had a roommate. Being 460 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: Shapley's assistant also meant that Paine no longer had the 461 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: freedom to choose the research that she wanted to do, 462 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: and at first Shapley had her keep working with photographic 463 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: plates of stellar spectra, even though there was more sophisticated 464 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: technology becoming available by that point. She was also expected 465 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: to teach courses for the newly established Department of Astronomy 466 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: at Harvard, although since she wasn't technically on the faculty, 467 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: her name was not included in the course catalog. Her 468 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: students described her as very intense, sometimes intimidating, and her 469 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: lectures were both beautiful and memorable. Even though she was 470 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: not being paid or recognized accordingly, Shapley was definitely aware 471 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: of what an asset pain was. In one letter, he 472 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: described her as quote one of the most outstanding astrophysicists 473 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: of America of any and all sexes. In ninety six, 474 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: she also became the youngest person to be listed in 475 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: American Men of Science. She became a US citizen in 476 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, then in nineteen thirty two and nineteen 477 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: thirty three, Cecilia Pain experienced a series of tragedies. Her 478 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: closest friend from Harvard was astronomer Adelaide Aims. The two 479 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: of them were so close that they had been nicknamed 480 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: the Heavenly Twins. Adelaide drowned after being swept from a 481 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: canoe during a sudden storm in nineteen thirty two. While 482 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: at Cambridge, Cecilia had been similarly inseparable from her friend 483 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: Betty Leaf, and they remain very close. In the years 484 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: that had followed, Cecilia learned that Betty had also drowned 485 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: in nine As she later wrote in her autobiography, quote 486 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: Adelaide and Betty all that I was not beautiful, delicate, 487 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: beloved were dead and I was alive. I was absorbed 488 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: in my work, shy and unattractive. What was I giving? 489 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: I made a silent resolve. I would open my heart 490 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: to the world. I would embrace life. She decided to travel, 491 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: making a trip to the Polkovo Observatory outside St. Petersburg. 492 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: During that trip, she also went to an astronomical conference 493 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: in Gutengen, Germany, and there she met Sergei Gaposchkin. Gaposchkin 494 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: was from Russia. His parents and most of his siblings 495 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,959 Speaker 1: had died during a Typhus outbreak, and at the end 496 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: of the Russian Civil War had left him with no 497 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: money and no documents that could prove his identity. Eventually, 498 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: he had made his way into Germany, where he had 499 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: earned a PhD in astronomy, but Hitler's rise to power 500 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: put him in a really impossible situation. He was a 501 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,959 Speaker 1: Russian living in Germany without any papers. Poshkin traveled by 502 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: bicycle for four days to get to good and get 503 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 1: for this conference with the hope that one of the 504 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: other astronomers there could help him get out, and the 505 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: person who helped him with Cecilia Payne. She got Harlow 506 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: Shaply to offer him a position at Harvard and to 507 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: contact the American consul in Germany to try to get 508 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: Gaposhkin out of the country. After she got back to 509 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: the United States, Cecilia personally went to Washington, d c. 510 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: To try to get his visa expedited. In four three 511 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: months after Sarage arrived in the US, he and Cecilia 512 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: got married. Most of her colleagues were baffled. It did 513 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: seem quite sudden, but in a lot of ways their 514 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: marriage really made sense. Both of them were dedicated astronomers, 515 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: and Sarage was also an artist. At the time, it 516 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: was expected for women to leave the workforce after getting married, 517 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: but Sarage was a refuge g and his temporary job 518 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: at Harvard paid even less than Cecilia's did. If they 519 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: got married, that meant that he would be dependent on 520 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: her income to survive. There would be no possible way 521 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: for her to just leave the workforce because she was 522 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: a married woman. Now. In other ways, it made less sense. 523 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: Over time, Serge developed a reputation for being opinionated and 524 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: hard to work with, and he openly flirted with other 525 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: women in the observatory. He was a capable astronomer, but 526 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: Cecilia was brilliant. In some accounts, Harvard tolerated his rough 527 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: edges just to keep Cecilia there. Between nineteen thirty five 528 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: and nineteen forty, they had three children, Edward, Catherine, and Peter, 529 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: and Cecilia broke with convention yet again by continuing to 530 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: teach while she was pregnant. Since they couldn't afford childcare, 531 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: they pretty much bought the kids with them to work 532 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: Cecilia and Saragey also started doing research together, publishing a 533 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: book on variable stars in ninety eight. That same year, 534 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: the American Astronomical Society a war did Cecilia Payne Gaposchkin 535 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: the first ever Annie Jump Cannon Prize, which still exists 536 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: today and recognizes outstanding postdoctoral research by a woman. Also 537 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty eight, Payne Gaposchkin was finally named to 538 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: the Harvard faculty with the title of Astronomer. In the 539 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: summer of nineteen thirty nine, Serge and Cecilia traveled to 540 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: Paris for a conference in spite of the growing tensions 541 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: in Europe, but Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington was also going 542 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: to be at this conference, and Cecilia wanted the chance 543 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: to see him again. Was actually turned out to be 544 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: her last opportunity to do so. He died. In nineteen 545 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: forty four. Germany invaded Poland just days before Cecilia and 546 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: sarage arrived back in the US aboard a ship, the 547 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: French vessel called the S S. Normandy. Cecilia and Sergey 548 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: continued to work at Harvard during and after the war. 549 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: Cecilia's name was finally included in the course catalog starting 550 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty five. In nineteen fifty six, she became 551 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: the first woman to be a tenured professor sir at Harvard, 552 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: and soon after she was also the first woman to 553 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: chare a department that wasn't specifically for women. At this point, 554 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: her salary was doubled, but her children were still a 555 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: fixture around the laboratory. The Harvard Observatory Council formally warned 556 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: Peter the Youngest, to stop bothering the staff in ninety. 557 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: She was away when the meeting happened when they had 558 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: this discussion and was outraged about it. It's very embarrassing. 559 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: And she was also like, he's old enough for you 560 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,959 Speaker 1: to be talking directly to him about these issues anyway. 561 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: During her career as an astronomer, Cecilia Pangapashkin published more 562 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: than a hundred and fifty papers and several monographs, as 563 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: well as multiple books on astronomy in addition to the 564 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: one we mentioned earlier. This included The Stars of High 565 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: Luminosity in ninety and Variable Stars and Galactic Structure in 566 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four. In nineteen seventy six, she was awarded 567 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: the Henry Norris Russell Prize, which is essentially a lifetime 568 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: achievement award the American Astronomical Society and a nice irony 569 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: considering his earlier appearance in this story. Cecilia Payne Gaposchkin 570 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: died of lung cancer on December seven nine. Her daughter 571 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: published her autobiography The Dyer's Hand, along with other collected writings, 572 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: in four Today. There is a portrait of Cecilia Payne 573 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: Gaposchkin hanging in the faculty room in Harvard's University Hall. 574 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: It is in the style of Vermeier sixteen sixty eight 575 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: painting The Astronomer, and it was painted by Patricia Watwood. 576 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: We will end with a quote from Cecilia Payne Gaposchkin quote. 577 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: There is no joy more intense than that of coming 578 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: upon a fact that cannot be understood in terms of 579 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: currently accepted ideas. Nature has always had a trick of 580 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: surprising us, and she will continue to surprise us. But 581 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: she has never let us down yet. I love her. 582 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: I do too. She's marvelous and I'm so glad you 583 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: picked this one. I'm so glad that mysterious people asked 584 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: for this a couple of months ago and now I 585 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: can find no record of it. They maybe maybe someone 586 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: will write and explain where they saw it, like what 587 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,800 Speaker 1: maybe what Facebook group or Twitter thread or whatever it 588 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: got brought up on that got so many people excited 589 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: about her story. Yeah. I tried several different U searches 590 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: to try to try to like try to find the emails. 591 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: I tried just Cecilia, I tried Gapashkin, I tried her 592 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: whole name. I remember specifically somebody said, can you do 593 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: an episode on the woman who discovered helium? And I 594 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: was like, I don't think that's quite right, quite what, 595 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: but like and I like just searching helium. I also 596 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 1: didn't find it was just a whole big mystery. Anyway. 597 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: Do you have listener mail that is less of a mystery? 598 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: I sure do. It is from Meg. Meg says Hi, 599 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: Tracy and Holly. I'm behind in my podcast listening and 600 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: I've been marathony to catch up. As an amateur gardener 601 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 1: and food fermenter, I was delighted when I reached the 602 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: August nineteenth episode about the invention of canning. At the 603 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: end of that episode, you encourage listeners with the resources 604 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: to do so to donate canned and dry goods, local 605 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: food pantries. I would like to offer an alternative for 606 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: anyone who cannot contribute monetarily or from their own pantries 607 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: food rescue. I volunteered for several years with a local 608 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: organization called food Link, which partners with grocery stores and 609 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: bakeries to get excess inventory and fresh produce into the 610 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: hands of community members who are food insecure. In a nutshell, 611 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: stores donate food to s. We make sure everything is 612 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: a safe temperatures and hasn't spoiled. Then we distribute boxes 613 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: of food to organizations serving at risk use seniors, and 614 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 1: families who may not have access to fresh food. There 615 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: are similar food rescue groups all over the US and 616 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: probably worldwide, and there are lots of ways your listeners 617 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: can help if they can't donate food or money. For 618 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: a few examples, it's late in the season, but some 619 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: fields have leftovers that aren't profitable to harvest. Can you 620 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: work with the farmer to glean that field and get 621 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: that produce to people who need it. Maybe your local 622 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: food rescue just purchased a building to turn into an 623 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: operations center are working on retrofitting it for freezers and shelves. 624 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: You have graphic or interior design skills that you can 625 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: volunteer to help make signs or optimized sorting spaces. Boxes 626 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: are always running out or falling apart. You ask for 627 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: banana boxes that your supermarket might be throwing out or crushing. 628 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 1: The COVID nineteen pandemic has been isolating and soul crushing 629 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and volunteering and food rescue 630 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: has allowed me to remain connected to my community. It 631 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: gets me out of the house for fresh air and 632 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: physical activity, and because we have to meet all food 633 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: preparation regulations, it's a very safe environment for some social interaction. 634 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: Digging through mesh bags to pull out rotten oranges isn't glamorous, 635 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: but it doesn't put me at risk of not being 636 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: able to pay rent. I can't recommend it highly enough 637 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: for anyone who wants to help others but can't make 638 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: a material donation. Thank you for taking the time to 639 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: read this email, and thank you and all of the 640 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: Mists and History family for the hours of education you've provided. 641 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 1: I've been a listener since the Candice and Josh days, 642 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: and I definitely everyone involved at least one cup of coffee. 643 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: Maybe keep each other safe, healthy and sane. Meg, Thank 644 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: you so much for this email. Meg. Um, the one 645 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: food bank I have actually volunteered at does a lot 646 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: of this food rescue. So in my head, all of 647 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: that was kind of folded together into one thing. Um, 648 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: my job was sorting the unbroken eggs out of the 649 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: egg cartons. Someone else's job was been doing this thing 650 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 1: called egg candling, where they would like examine the egg 651 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: through a light to make sure there weren't any cracks 652 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: in it that were not visible the you know, the 653 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: unaided I anyway, Yes, there are so many ways to 654 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: contribute even if you don't really have like either the 655 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: money or the you know, canned goods to contribute to 656 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: a food bank. Um, my recommendation is always to like 657 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: contact the food bank and see what they need. Um, 658 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: whether it's a food rescue organization or like a food pantry, 659 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,919 Speaker 1: that's that's just getting the resources to people. Um. Some 660 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: places are are way more able to do more with 661 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: money than with the canned goods donations. So um, like 662 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: that's a thing. You know, I would hate for somebody 663 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: to take a bunch of a bunch of boxes and 664 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: then it turned out that like, that's not something that 665 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: particular food pantry eats. So, like my my guideline is 666 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: always check in see what kind of donations are going 667 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: to help the most. Um. There are definitely a lot 668 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: of places that needs some volunteer help that are still 669 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: doing volunteer intakes, um in a in a safe and 670 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: socially distanced way during the pandemic. Um. So there are 671 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: lots of options out there for people who do have 672 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: time but maybe not money or or goods to donate. Yeah. Um, 673 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: I want to say, first of all, I adore Meg, 674 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: like for just the great detailed like it's perfect and 675 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: it's a good reminder and to like this is so 676 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: timely because we are heading into holiday season and it's 677 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: getting colder. Yeah, people like the needs are only going 678 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: to increase right now, They're not going to to We're 679 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: not getting to a place where things are better and 680 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 1: it's less urgent. It's margin than ever. Yeah, yeah, for sure, 681 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 1: for sure. So thank you so much Meg for this email. 682 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: Thank you to all of our listeners. We have gotten 683 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,720 Speaker 1: so many gracious emails from folks over the last several months. Um. Again, 684 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: we keep saying this, we really truly mean it. We 685 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: hope people are able to stay as well and safe 686 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: and and I don't know, as as good as possible. 687 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: There's so much happening in the world right now. Um So, anyway, 688 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: thank you again to everyone, and so Meg especially for 689 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: writing this email. If you would like to write to 690 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: us about this or any other podcast or history podcast 691 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: at I heart radio dot com and we're all over 692 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: social media at mist in History. That's where you'll find 693 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: our Facebook and Pinterest, on Twitter and Instagram. You can 694 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,959 Speaker 1: subscribe to our show on the I heart radio app 695 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: and on Apple Podcasts and anywhere else you get your podcasts. 696 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: Ye Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production 697 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 698 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 699 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H