WEBVTT - Episode 42 - John Oates (3-7-17) 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:04.040 All right, Welcome to episode forty two of the Bobby Cast. 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:08.000 Thanks to Blue Apron for sponsoring the Bobby Cast and 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.440 with John Oates from Hall and Oates, which, by the way, 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.000 you have a book called Change of Seasons, and I 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:16.640 want to get into the book in a second, and 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.919 why I liked the book, how it's written, and some 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.640 stuff in the book. But first, like, I'm a fan 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.360 of of you guys. I never knew until I read 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.760 the book that you weren't really Hall and Oates. I 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.360 never knew that. And now I feel ridiculous because I've 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.000 been saying it from my whole life. Everybody says that 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.560 everybody you know, come on, you gotta put you gotta 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:39.760 put things in a convenient box. But if you look 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:43.520 on every album we've ever made, it says Darryl Hall 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.120 and John Oates, and we we were very adamant about that. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:47.839 And I know it seems kind of a silly thing 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.360 to be a stickler about, but you know what, we 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.159 we always have seen ourselves as two guys who worked together, 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:55.400 and we made a point of that. And even though 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.560 knowing everyone ignores it doesn't matter, but it's it's a 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.800 thing when I say Hey, guess who's here from hauling otes? 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.080 Do you cringe a little bit or anymore? Did you did? 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.280 And we used to we used to try to fight 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:10.920 it back in the day, you know. We we try 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.120 to like, you know, it's there a hole in John notes, 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:14.679 you know, and we make a point of it with 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.200 our ads and things like that. When you hear the 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.959 like the concert advertisements and things, it says Darryl hole 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:21.600 on John Notes, you know. So we make a point 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:23.400 of it when we can. But you know, hey, man, 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.440 people are gonna always, you know, truncate whatever they want to. 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.680 That blew my mind. John I was I was reading. 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.839 I was like, and I've had you on my radio 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.360 show before, and I was like, yeah, John from Hall. 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.400 And I was like, oh, if I hated me, he 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.399 probably left him. Was like, no, no, no, no, hey, listen, 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.280 the last night on the TV show, at the radio 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.400 show that we did, the fella called me John Hall twice. 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:50.560 So does that happen a lot because you're it's two 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:55.360 people and you guys have pretty generic first and hand, Well, 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.440 there's a number of things that happened. First of all, um, 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:03.760 do you remember Group Orleans? Remember John Hall? Well, he 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:05.480 used to go around wearing a T shirt and said 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:09.560 I'm not Darryl Oates. Okay. And then one one time 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:11.359 years ago, I remember I was sitting in a dressing 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.440 room by myself and a guy poked his head in 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:15.560 and he went, which one of you guys is Hall 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.639 of Notes? And I looked around. I was the only 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.040 one in the room, so I went, I guess that's 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.280 to me. The guy and one of the guy on 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.440 my radio show, like he does nothing about music, right, 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.280 And so he was like, oh, cool, you're having Holland 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.880 Oats up and I was like, no, no, not even 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:37.240 he thought your first name was Holland. Holland. Yeah, we 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.400 got a lot of that. Another really funny one was 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.400 years ago we were playing with Dot. We played on 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.440 double bill with Dr John at a Chicago theater and 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.280 as we pulled up to the theater, it said if 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:49.760 you look at the marquee, it said doctor John across 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.040 the top and underneath it it said Halling Notes. So 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.440 it looked like doctor Hall and John Oates. So we 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.400 called Darryl doctor Hall for quite a while. Yeah. This book, 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.200 and I gotta say I'm I was already a fan. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.799 And the book is called change of seasons and it's 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:07.840 a memoir. How long take you to write this thing? 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.840 Almost two years? So you write the book and as 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:12.919 I'm reading through it, first of all, I like out 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.560 it's written because for me, I'm a d D. And 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.440 it's like it was quick. It was quick. It was 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.320 like it was like like every three three or four 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.040 pages or so like boom. Well, it was designed that way. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.120 I wanted it to be designed so that it was. 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.560 It read like a series of short stories, so if 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.960 you wanted to flip it open, and also in a way, 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.240 you don't have to read it from stem to stern, 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.560 so to speak. You can just pick it up anywhere. 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.280 And there's a story that stands on its own. So 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:44.440 and I want to go and how we do this. 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.000 We kind of start in the now and then we 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:48.640 go back to the beginning and then make our way 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.200 back up to the now. And so the good thing 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.240 is all in the book, so we can talk about whatever. Which, 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.560 By the way, the book you can preorder it now, 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:57.440 depending on when you hear that, you can pre order 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.880 it right now Amazon, Amazon, that's right, and that's you know, 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.960 the universal place. But the book comes out in March, 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.040 so that's when you go to the bookstores or you 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.480 can come by my house because I have a copy 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.840 and if you swing by you can get it. You've 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.320 got the advanced reader's copy, so it's got worts, warts 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.560 and all on that one. There's a a few things 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.120 about the on the final copy that change, but not much. 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:21.760 I was blown away, like I said, and I wanted 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.800 to start with that that you were never called Halt 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.120 and notes, and I like, I mean, my whole head 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.320 was because that's like, I know the catalog, I know 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.520 the songs, and it makes sense because like, let's go 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:38.320 to the Silver Album, which was just your names, Daryl 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.640 Hall and Johnes, which wasn't your first album. It was 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:42.640 your first album that really popped, would you Is that 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:44.440 fair to say? Yes? It was. It was the first 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.440 album that had a hit single. Okay, So, and it's 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:49.479 called the Silver Album because that was the color of 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:51.440 the album and it didn't have a title other than 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:53.960 our name than your name's on him and so on that. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.480 So this is an interesting thing for me as someone 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:00.360 who likes to break music. Um, the first you had 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:04.080 on that record was Sarah Smiles. Okay, now, Sarah Smile, 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.159 I'm gonna play this song here because and if I 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:07.719 started singing along, just let just let me go for 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:15.440 a second. I love himself. So here's Sarah Smile. Oh damn, 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.520 babies are made to this. Oh my god, come on, 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:24.360 if you feel like leaving, you know you can go. 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:30.160 So how did this song become the singles in the 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.640 most weird way? We had released two singles from this album. 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.440 We released Camellia and another one I can't remember which one. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.680 They both went into the top forty. So it wasn't like, 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.559 you know, it wasn't like panic time. It was pretty cool. 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.200 And we were on tour in Europe for the first time. 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:49.240 We were touring England and in Toledo, Ohio, at an 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:53.040 R and B station, a DJ played Sarah Smile as 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.360 an album cut was not released as a single, and 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:58.480 as they said in the old radio days, the phones 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.760 lit up and we got this call that this DJ 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.239 called our c A Records in New York and said, 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.240 people are going nuts over this song. You got to 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.200 release it as a single. And we had almost given 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.400 up on the album after two singles. You know, we're 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.720 kind of ready to move on, and we got a 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.359 call from our manager saying, hey, we got some action 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.120 on this song Sarah Smile, So let's we're gonna release it, 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:28.120 and sure enough it hits again. Do you hear age 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:36.800 and voice? He sounds young good so some some random DJ. Yeah, 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.720 we actually got to meet him, uh years years later 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:43.680 and uh we gave him, give him a bunch of 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:45.880 cool stuff. And you know it was it was a 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.159 cool thing. That's awesome. It was a cool thing that 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:49.960 he would just go out on a limb and just 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:56.320 give it, give an album track a shot. Listen to this, Oh, 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.200 this is the first hit. Now that correct me if 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:00.920 I'm wrong, because party, I'm going from the book and 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:06.200 partly I'm going from from knowledge. She's gone Now. That 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.440 song actually was released before Sarah Smile, but didn't do 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.680 anything really a little bit. But again, as you said, 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:15.240 there were two singles that were put out that didn't 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.480 do a whole lot. But then you re released it 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.680 after Sarah Smiles. That right, Well, it's even more convoluted. 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.120 It came out on an album we did in It 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.160 wasn't the same album, no different. It came out on 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:31.800 an album and seventy three called Abandoned Luncheonett and it 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:33.680 was the lead single on that album, and it went 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.440 into the top forty and here again we moved on quickly, 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:42.160 and two albums later, a group called Varus copy cut this. 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.680 They covered She's Gone and had a number one R 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.560 and B record with it. It's a number one on 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.280 the R and B chart. So did you make money 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:53.000 off a songwriter? A songwriter did, so that was a 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:54.480 big deal and that was a cool thing for us 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:56.280 because you know, we always been basically an R and 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:00.160 B act anyway. So, uh, then after Sarah Smile I'll 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.800 hit Atlantic, Atlantic Records said, wait a minute, we've got 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.200 to rerelease She's Gone. And they released She's Gone and 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.480 went to number two. I believe, man, what a crazy 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.000 story here it is She's Gone. But how did they 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.400 rerelease it because it was already on a previous album. 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.120 Did they put it out as just a single? Well, 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.440 we had already changed labels to Our c A, so 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:21.800 Atlantic still had the rights to that song and that record, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:23.960 so they just released it as a single. They said, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.440 want to capitalize on their on their success. So you 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.680 were Gone, but your old labeled put it out well 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:31.720 a little bit where you like, come on, guys, we 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.280 were thrilled. We always believed in this song. We thought 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.240 this was the song that would really put us on 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.040 the map. And to be honest with you, it is 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.440 the song that that kind of introduced us to the world. 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.360 What do you hear when you hear this right now? 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:56.440 I hear the perfect confluence of the right song, the 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:00.160 right production, the right players, the right producer, in the 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.559 right room at the right time. You talk about players 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.600 in a room. It was just recorded so much differently 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:09.160 than right. Well, you know the records I'm making right 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.480 now in Nashville, I make exactly like I made that one. 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.040 You make them with people, with real people all around 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.760 in the looking at each other and play. I do 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.679 the exact same thing. And what I learned from Reef Martin, 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.160 who produced that, was surround yourself with great players and 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.440 let them do what they do and just guide them. 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:29.400 I gotta I've took so many notes from this book. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.920 By the way, if you like Hall and Oates or 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:37.320 is they like to call themselves Dard, I have so 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.080 many notes that took from this book because I was 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:40.600 running through it and I was just like, I didn't 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:42.960 know this. I didn't know this, So bear with me 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:44.960 as I go through some of this stuff, go go, 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:50.280 go right on. So let's try to go somewhat in order. 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:55.800 So let's go linear. So you're born raised in Pennsylvania. Okay, 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.600 So I was born New York, raised in Pennsylvania. When 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:00.520 did you make the move? When I was were years old, 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.000 my parents moved to from New York City to Pennsylvania, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.960 small town called North Wales, Pennsylvania. Do you remember, I 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:10.200 don't have any memory before five. I do. I remember 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.360 the day we left New York City and that's one 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.120 of my first memories. Some of my friends and like 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.280 Kenny John, they think they can remember coming out of 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.360 the womb. They tell me that, like, do you belive 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.240 do you like? Do you believe that? Okay? I don't. 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.240 I think that three is like the earliest. So you 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.600 moved to Pennsylvania and you grew up. What kind of family? 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.720 How would you describe the family? Um? Lower middle class 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.960 to middle class family uprooted from My parents were city people. 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:41.079 They were New York City natives and ethnic you know, Italian, 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.720 and my father was Spanish and English and uh. We 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.760 moved into a little Pennsylvania Dutch town where they didn't 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:52.280 know anybody and my dad had moved because of his 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.560 his his work transferred to Pennsylvania, so he went along 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.400 with the job. And Um, they were lonely. And we 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.240 lived in a little rented house near the railroad tracks. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.520 And it was a small town. And every weekend we 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:05.800 drove to New York City to visit with the with 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.120 the family, an extended Italian family, and that was that 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.920 was kind of my experience growing up. Then they became, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.040 of course more comfortable in that little town, and we 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.920 moved into a uh, they bought a house and with 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.240 a g I bill and all that, And I grew 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.800 up in Pennsylvania, a small town. There was a sheep 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.120 farm right behind the house, woods and fields, and I 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.360 went from being born in a city to being a 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.719 country kid. Basically, So, as you grow up, what kind 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.440 of music is surrounding you in your house? Big band 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.960 music most for the most part, Um, early early mostly 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:44.600 big band and very very early rock and roll Johnny Ray, Um, 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:49.800 Lionel Hampton, Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, um, that kind of stuff. 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.760 And your parents were okay with you listening to rock 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.360 and roll? Yeah, they were kind of really supportive. I 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.080 began to sing when I was four years old. I 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.120 made my first record when I was four and at 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.679 Coney Island in a little phone like a booth recording booth, 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.520 and I sang, I sang, here comes Peter Cotton Tale. 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.040 And about two or three years later I went back 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.559 and sang all shook up the Elvis tun and people 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.560 don't know, but here Comes Peter Cotton Tell was rereleased. 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.920 I went number one right after She's gone. For you guys, 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.160 it's an amazing story. I might re release it again. 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.360 Atlantic had it and they put it out and it 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.360 was the whole thing. So you grow up and your 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.560 parents and the musical at all, like did they play No, 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.120 not at all. But I just sang. I don't know why. 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.319 I just naturally sang. And my mother became a bit 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.040 of a stage mother. So they really supported me in 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.160 every way. Uh gave me vocal lessons when I was five, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.080 guitar lessons when I was six, and um, I never 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.440 looked back. How much school did you get done? I 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:48.560 was okay in school. I wasn't a great student, but 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.200 I was okay high school. I went to a public 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.600 high school. Um, you know, and it was it was 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:57.040 the days before you know, drugs, and revolution and long hair. 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:01.080 It was very quiet and conservative, and the moment I 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.800 graduated from high school, I went straight to Philadelphia. And 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.320 so for you, it was you knew, you always knew 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.000 what you wanted to do. I never you know, it's funny. 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.400 Someone asked me about this today in an interview about 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.960 why they think I became a musician, and I, first 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:17.800 of all, I think I was just somehow born to 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:22.319 do it. But every time I did something musical, people 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.319 seem to like it, and it never There was never 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.200 a time when I feel like if they kept clapping, 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.679 I kept singing and playing. If they ever stopped, I 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:37.000 might have reconsidered, but I never did. Was there some 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.520 affirmation that you're missing in your life that you think 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.200 you got from an audience that made you continue to 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:49.080 go back? No, because playing live is not necessarily my 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.040 favorite thing to do. I enjoy it and I'm good 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.040 at it because I've done it for like my whole life, 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.720 literally so, but I like the songwriting process, and I 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.360 like the playing, and I like recording. To me, that's 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.960 where it all comes together. The playing live is is 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.800 really fun, and it's there's something in the immediacy of 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.360 it you know, musicians are one of the few artists 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.480 UH categories that does something and gets an immediate response. 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:15.400 You know, if you're an actor, you might work on 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.760 a film for six months or a year, and then 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:19.680 it goes into editing, and then all of a sudden 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.200 it comes out a year later, and you're you don't 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.440 have a really response from the audience other than the 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.680 fact that you might walk down a red carpet someday 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:28.840 and you know, at the Oscars or something like that. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.040 If you're a painter, you you know, you kind of 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.680 live in solitude and you paint your paintings and eventually 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:35.840 maybe they go up in a gallery, but there's there's 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.240 not that immediate feedback. And even in writing the book, 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.960 I found it a little frustrating writing the book because 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.320 I was so used to instant gratification. You write a song, 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.240 you pick up your guitar, you play it. People you 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:48.920 can tell if they like it or if they don't 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.080 like it. So it's kind of a little bit spoiled 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.640 on the instant graviication part of the deal. And writing 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.320 the book was such a long to year process that 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.440 I never did get feedback along the way. It's not 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:00.680 until right now when people are fine only reading it 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.400 that I'm like starting to feel this amazing, you know, 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.280 satisfaction that maybe I did something good here? Did you 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.560 feel like? Because I wrote a book by a year 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:11.960 and a half ago, and when I turned it in 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.000 it was really And I'm someone who's very vulnerable on 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:16.720 the air and on stage joined stand up, but when 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.560 I turned the book in it was such a vulnerable 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.160 thing because I had worked so long on it and 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.720 it was time to get opinions on something. Yeah, I 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.880 had put so much time into I was nervous about it. 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:29.920 To be honest with you, I'm never nervous about my 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.800 music because I kind of have I'm pretty good self editor. 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.680 I know if it's happening or not, and if it's 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:36.520 not happening, I'm not gonna play it or you know, 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.280 get an exposure. But the book, I didn't know. I 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.760 really didn't know. I felt good about it. I know, 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.680 I worked really hard on it. UM had a great collaborator, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.320 as fellow named Price Epting, who really guided me through 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:51.000 the process. Um, but boy, I was I was nervous. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.240 I didn't know what it's like to to bury soul 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.680 in a book that's there forever and and to put 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.280 it all out there. I felt like, as you talk 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.520 and you say, you know, you don't performed for the 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.640 love of the crowd and the immediate love that were you, 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:06.840 it sounds like you were loved as a kid. Would 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:08.520 you say that's fair? Yeah? I had a very I 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.600 had a really really nice, solid upbringing. My parents my 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.520 parents are still together. Um, you know my mom My 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.840 dad's ninety four, my mom's ninety two. Um, and uh, yeah, 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:20.280 it was a good it was a good upbringing. They 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.480 were They were very supportive. So you're a small town 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:25.640 of Pennsylvania. You had to filly with what on your 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.680 mind getting out of that small town. Just like a 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.320 million other kids, you know, and a million other musicians 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.800 get into the city, find out what what what? What 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:38.680 was there? Um? You know, spread my wings getting into 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.000 a more professional music scene. What do you want to find? 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:49.520 I wanted to find someone who uh maybe could be 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:54.040 my equal take me someplace new, and I did. Which 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.080 is an interesting story too, and I've heard it before, 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:58.640 but when I read it in the book, there was 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.000 a little more detail because I don't aways heard that 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:05.080 you and Darryl were at a radio station together or 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:06.959 you know, at an event in someone in some shots 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:08.879 were fired and all of a sudden, the next thing 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.320 you know, here they are there band. But it wasn't 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.680 it wasn't quite that. No, no, no, no, talk about 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.560 that for a second, because you moved to Philly and 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.240 we're you're at a radio station in nineties sixty seven. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.240 My high school band had been together some oh for 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.080 about four years, and we had various names, as most 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.080 high school bands do, and we we saved up our money. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:30.960 We went down to Philly and we made a record. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.399 We went to Virtue Recording Studio on North broad Street 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.840 where um a guy named Frank Virtue owned the studio. 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:39.080 He had a he had a big hit in the 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.920 fifties cold Guitar Boogie Shuffle with his own group called 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.240 the Virtues. It was an instrumental record, and we basically 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.160 paid him a few hundred dollars. We hired a guy 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.760 named Bobby Martin who was a brand young arranger who 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:56.239 I found in the Yellow Pages, and he went on 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.840 to arrange and co produce stuff for gamblin Huff like 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.480 uh backstabbers and you know, a bunch of for the 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.840 love of Money with the o Js, you know, incredible guy, 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:07.680 but he was just starting out as well. He was 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.000 probably a few years older. And we went to front 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.440 to Virtue Sound and we uh, you know, we we 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.399 didn't have have a clue what we were doing, and 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.560 he helped us make our first record. After we we 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.160 put the record out independently with a little label from 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.640 Philadelphia called Crimson. At the same time, not I didn't 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.560 know this, of course, but Darryl Hall's group called the 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.679 Temp Tones was doing the exact same thing in a 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.240 different studio, and our records were being played on w 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.240 h A T and w D A S, which were 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.800 the two R and B stations in Philadelphia at the 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.440 same time. So we were both aware of each other 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:41.879 and this, you know, Philly was a pretty small music scene. 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.199 So before you move all we keep talking about R 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.280 and B stations. So it was the mostly white artists 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.440 on R and B stations and we were the only ones. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.480 You just had a lot of soul, but you two 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.960 white guys had a lot of souls, I guess. So hey, listen, 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.560 they played us on their station. So whatever that means, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.439 it is what it means. Um, you know, I don't know. 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.399 All I know is it got on the radio and 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.600 that was enough for me. It's at eighteen years old. 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.600 I was thrilled, you know, beyond and uh then um, 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.639 we both got asked to do a record hop for 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:13.800 this guy named Jimmy Bishop who was a big DJ 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.760 on w D A S. And he had a Sunday 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.200 afternoon teenage dance at a place called the Adelphi Ballroom 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.200 in West Philadelphia, a pretty bad neighborhood. So here's these 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.000 you know, two little white groups, you know, kind of 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.560 cruising up to this place and backstage was was the 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.359 five stair Steps. Um. They had a song called in 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.040 My World Fantasy and a guy named Howard Tate who 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.160 had a single call look at Grandy Run Run, which 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.960 is a really cool tune. And so we're back there 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.880 and I was I was a bit intimidated, and uh 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.880