1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: All right, Welcome to episode forty two of the Bobby Cast. 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Thanks to Blue Apron for sponsoring the Bobby Cast and 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: with John Oates from Hall and Oates, which, by the way, 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: you have a book called Change of Seasons, and I 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: want to get into the book in a second, and 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: why I liked the book, how it's written, and some 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: stuff in the book. But first, like, I'm a fan 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: of of you guys. I never knew until I read 9 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: the book that you weren't really Hall and Oates. I 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: never knew that. And now I feel ridiculous because I've 11 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: been saying it from my whole life. Everybody says that 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: everybody you know, come on, you gotta put you gotta 13 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: put things in a convenient box. But if you look 14 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: on every album we've ever made, it says Darryl Hall 15 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: and John Oates, and we we were very adamant about that. 16 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: And I know it seems kind of a silly thing 17 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: to be a stickler about, but you know what, we 18 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: we always have seen ourselves as two guys who worked together, 19 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: and we made a point of that. And even though 20 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: knowing everyone ignores it doesn't matter, but it's it's a 21 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: thing when I say Hey, guess who's here from hauling otes? 22 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: Do you cringe a little bit or anymore? Did you did? 23 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: And we used to we used to try to fight 24 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: it back in the day, you know. We we try 25 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: to like, you know, it's there a hole in John notes, 26 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: you know, and we make a point of it with 27 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: our ads and things like that. When you hear the 28 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: like the concert advertisements and things, it says Darryl hole 29 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: on John Notes, you know. So we make a point 30 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: of it when we can. But you know, hey, man, 31 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: people are gonna always, you know, truncate whatever they want to. 32 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: That blew my mind. John I was I was reading. 33 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,839 Speaker 1: I was like, and I've had you on my radio 34 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: show before, and I was like, yeah, John from Hall. 35 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, if I hated me, he 36 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: probably left him. Was like, no, no, no, no, hey, listen, 37 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: the last night on the TV show, at the radio 38 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: show that we did, the fella called me John Hall twice. 39 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: So does that happen a lot because you're it's two 40 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: people and you guys have pretty generic first and hand, Well, 41 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: there's a number of things that happened. First of all, um, 42 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: do you remember Group Orleans? Remember John Hall? Well, he 43 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: used to go around wearing a T shirt and said 44 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: I'm not Darryl Oates. Okay. And then one one time 45 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: years ago, I remember I was sitting in a dressing 46 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: room by myself and a guy poked his head in 47 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: and he went, which one of you guys is Hall 48 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: of Notes? And I looked around. I was the only 49 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: one in the room, so I went, I guess that's 50 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: to me. The guy and one of the guy on 51 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: my radio show, like he does nothing about music, right, 52 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: And so he was like, oh, cool, you're having Holland 53 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: Oats up and I was like, no, no, not even 54 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: he thought your first name was Holland. Holland. Yeah, we 55 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: got a lot of that. Another really funny one was 56 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: years ago we were playing with Dot. We played on 57 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: double bill with Dr John at a Chicago theater and 58 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: as we pulled up to the theater, it said if 59 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: you look at the marquee, it said doctor John across 60 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: the top and underneath it it said Halling Notes. So 61 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: it looked like doctor Hall and John Oates. So we 62 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: called Darryl doctor Hall for quite a while. Yeah. This book, 63 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: and I gotta say I'm I was already a fan. 64 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: And the book is called change of seasons and it's 65 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: a memoir. How long take you to write this thing? 66 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: Almost two years? So you write the book and as 67 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: I'm reading through it, first of all, I like out 68 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: it's written because for me, I'm a d D. And 69 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: it's like it was quick. It was quick. It was 70 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: like it was like like every three three or four 71 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: pages or so like boom. Well, it was designed that way. 72 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: I wanted it to be designed so that it was. 73 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: It read like a series of short stories, so if 74 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: you wanted to flip it open, and also in a way, 75 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: you don't have to read it from stem to stern, 76 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: so to speak. You can just pick it up anywhere. 77 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: And there's a story that stands on its own. So 78 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: and I want to go and how we do this. 79 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: We kind of start in the now and then we 80 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: go back to the beginning and then make our way 81 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: back up to the now. And so the good thing 82 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: is all in the book, so we can talk about whatever. Which, 83 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: By the way, the book you can preorder it now, 84 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: depending on when you hear that, you can pre order 85 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: it right now Amazon, Amazon, that's right, and that's you know, 86 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: the universal place. But the book comes out in March, 87 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: so that's when you go to the bookstores or you 88 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: can come by my house because I have a copy 89 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: and if you swing by you can get it. You've 90 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: got the advanced reader's copy, so it's got worts, warts 91 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: and all on that one. There's a a few things 92 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: about the on the final copy that change, but not much. 93 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: I was blown away, like I said, and I wanted 94 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: to start with that that you were never called Halt 95 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: and notes, and I like, I mean, my whole head 96 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: was because that's like, I know the catalog, I know 97 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: the songs, and it makes sense because like, let's go 98 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: to the Silver Album, which was just your names, Daryl 99 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: Hall and Johnes, which wasn't your first album. It was 100 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: your first album that really popped, would you Is that 101 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: fair to say? Yes? It was. It was the first 102 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: album that had a hit single. Okay, So, and it's 103 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: called the Silver Album because that was the color of 104 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: the album and it didn't have a title other than 105 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: our name than your name's on him and so on that. 106 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: So this is an interesting thing for me as someone 107 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: who likes to break music. Um, the first you had 108 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: on that record was Sarah Smiles. Okay, now, Sarah Smile, 109 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: I'm gonna play this song here because and if I 110 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: started singing along, just let just let me go for 111 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: a second. I love himself. So here's Sarah Smile. Oh damn, 112 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: babies are made to this. Oh my god, come on, 113 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: if you feel like leaving, you know you can go. 114 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: So how did this song become the singles in the 115 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: most weird way? We had released two singles from this album. 116 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: We released Camellia and another one I can't remember which one. 117 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: They both went into the top forty. So it wasn't like, 118 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,559 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't like panic time. It was pretty cool. 119 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: And we were on tour in Europe for the first time. 120 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: We were touring England and in Toledo, Ohio, at an 121 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: R and B station, a DJ played Sarah Smile as 122 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: an album cut was not released as a single, and 123 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: as they said in the old radio days, the phones 124 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: lit up and we got this call that this DJ 125 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 1: called our c A Records in New York and said, 126 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: people are going nuts over this song. You got to 127 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: release it as a single. And we had almost given 128 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: up on the album after two singles. You know, we're 129 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: kind of ready to move on, and we got a 130 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: call from our manager saying, hey, we got some action 131 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: on this song Sarah Smile, So let's we're gonna release it, 132 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: and sure enough it hits again. Do you hear age 133 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: and voice? He sounds young good so some some random DJ. Yeah, 134 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: we actually got to meet him, uh years years later 135 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: and uh we gave him, give him a bunch of 136 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: cool stuff. And you know it was it was a 137 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: cool thing. That's awesome. It was a cool thing that 138 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: he would just go out on a limb and just 139 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: give it, give an album track a shot. Listen to this, Oh, 140 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: this is the first hit. Now that correct me if 141 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, because party, I'm going from the book and 142 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: partly I'm going from from knowledge. She's gone Now. That 143 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: song actually was released before Sarah Smile, but didn't do 144 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: anything really a little bit. But again, as you said, 145 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: there were two singles that were put out that didn't 146 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: do a whole lot. But then you re released it 147 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: after Sarah Smiles. That right, Well, it's even more convoluted. 148 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: It came out on an album we did in It 149 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: wasn't the same album, no different. It came out on 150 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: an album and seventy three called Abandoned Luncheonett and it 151 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: was the lead single on that album, and it went 152 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: into the top forty and here again we moved on quickly, 153 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: and two albums later, a group called Varus copy cut this. 154 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: They covered She's Gone and had a number one R 155 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: and B record with it. It's a number one on 156 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: the R and B chart. So did you make money 157 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: off a songwriter? A songwriter did, so that was a 158 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: big deal and that was a cool thing for us 159 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: because you know, we always been basically an R and 160 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: B act anyway. So, uh, then after Sarah Smile I'll 161 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: hit Atlantic, Atlantic Records said, wait a minute, we've got 162 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: to rerelease She's Gone. And they released She's Gone and 163 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: went to number two. I believe, man, what a crazy 164 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: story here it is She's Gone. But how did they 165 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: rerelease it because it was already on a previous album. 166 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: Did they put it out as just a single? Well, 167 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: we had already changed labels to Our c A, so 168 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: Atlantic still had the rights to that song and that record, 169 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: so they just released it as a single. They said, 170 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: want to capitalize on their on their success. So you 171 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: were Gone, but your old labeled put it out well 172 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: a little bit where you like, come on, guys, we 173 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: were thrilled. We always believed in this song. We thought 174 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: this was the song that would really put us on 175 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: the map. And to be honest with you, it is 176 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: the song that that kind of introduced us to the world. 177 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: What do you hear when you hear this right now? 178 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: I hear the perfect confluence of the right song, the 179 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: right production, the right players, the right producer, in the 180 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: right room at the right time. You talk about players 181 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: in a room. It was just recorded so much differently 182 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: than right. Well, you know the records I'm making right 183 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: now in Nashville, I make exactly like I made that one. 184 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: You make them with people, with real people all around 185 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: in the looking at each other and play. I do 186 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: the exact same thing. And what I learned from Reef Martin, 187 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: who produced that, was surround yourself with great players and 188 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: let them do what they do and just guide them. 189 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: I gotta I've took so many notes from this book. 190 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: By the way, if you like Hall and Oates or 191 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: is they like to call themselves Dard, I have so 192 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: many notes that took from this book because I was 193 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: running through it and I was just like, I didn't 194 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: know this. I didn't know this, So bear with me 195 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: as I go through some of this stuff, go go, 196 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: go right on. So let's try to go somewhat in order. 197 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: So let's go linear. So you're born raised in Pennsylvania. Okay, 198 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: So I was born New York, raised in Pennsylvania. When 199 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: did you make the move? When I was were years old, 200 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: my parents moved to from New York City to Pennsylvania, 201 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: small town called North Wales, Pennsylvania. Do you remember, I 202 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: don't have any memory before five. I do. I remember 203 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: the day we left New York City and that's one 204 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: of my first memories. Some of my friends and like 205 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: Kenny John, they think they can remember coming out of 206 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: the womb. They tell me that, like, do you belive 207 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: do you like? Do you believe that? Okay? I don't. 208 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: I think that three is like the earliest. So you 209 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: moved to Pennsylvania and you grew up. What kind of family? 210 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: How would you describe the family? Um? Lower middle class 211 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: to middle class family uprooted from My parents were city people. 212 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: They were New York City natives and ethnic you know, Italian, 213 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: and my father was Spanish and English and uh. We 214 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: moved into a little Pennsylvania Dutch town where they didn't 215 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: know anybody and my dad had moved because of his 216 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: his his work transferred to Pennsylvania, so he went along 217 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: with the job. And Um, they were lonely. And we 218 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: lived in a little rented house near the railroad tracks. 219 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: And it was a small town. And every weekend we 220 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: drove to New York City to visit with the with 221 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: the family, an extended Italian family, and that was that 222 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: was kind of my experience growing up. Then they became, 223 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: of course more comfortable in that little town, and we 224 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: moved into a uh, they bought a house and with 225 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: a g I bill and all that, And I grew 226 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: up in Pennsylvania, a small town. There was a sheep 227 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: farm right behind the house, woods and fields, and I 228 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: went from being born in a city to being a 229 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,719 Speaker 1: country kid. Basically, So, as you grow up, what kind 230 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: of music is surrounding you in your house? Big band 231 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: music most for the most part, Um, early early mostly 232 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: big band and very very early rock and roll Johnny Ray, Um, 233 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: Lionel Hampton, Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, um, that kind of stuff. 234 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: And your parents were okay with you listening to rock 235 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: and roll? Yeah, they were kind of really supportive. I 236 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: began to sing when I was four years old. I 237 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: made my first record when I was four and at 238 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: Coney Island in a little phone like a booth recording booth, 239 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: and I sang, I sang, here comes Peter Cotton Tale. 240 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: And about two or three years later I went back 241 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: and sang all shook up the Elvis tun and people 242 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: don't know, but here Comes Peter Cotton Tell was rereleased. 243 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: I went number one right after She's gone. For you guys, 244 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: it's an amazing story. I might re release it again. 245 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: Atlantic had it and they put it out and it 246 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: was the whole thing. So you grow up and your 247 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: parents and the musical at all, like did they play No, 248 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: not at all. But I just sang. I don't know why. 249 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: I just naturally sang. And my mother became a bit 250 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: of a stage mother. So they really supported me in 251 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: every way. Uh gave me vocal lessons when I was five, 252 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: guitar lessons when I was six, and um, I never 253 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: looked back. How much school did you get done? I 254 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: was okay in school. I wasn't a great student, but 255 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: I was okay high school. I went to a public 256 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: high school. Um, you know, and it was it was 257 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: the days before you know, drugs, and revolution and long hair. 258 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: It was very quiet and conservative, and the moment I 259 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: graduated from high school, I went straight to Philadelphia. And 260 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: so for you, it was you knew, you always knew 261 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: what you wanted to do. I never you know, it's funny. 262 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: Someone asked me about this today in an interview about 263 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: why they think I became a musician, and I, first 264 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: of all, I think I was just somehow born to 265 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 1: do it. But every time I did something musical, people 266 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: seem to like it, and it never There was never 267 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: a time when I feel like if they kept clapping, 268 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: I kept singing and playing. If they ever stopped, I 269 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: might have reconsidered, but I never did. Was there some 270 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: affirmation that you're missing in your life that you think 271 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: you got from an audience that made you continue to 272 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: go back? No, because playing live is not necessarily my 273 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: favorite thing to do. I enjoy it and I'm good 274 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: at it because I've done it for like my whole life, 275 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: literally so, but I like the songwriting process, and I 276 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: like the playing, and I like recording. To me, that's 277 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: where it all comes together. The playing live is is 278 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: really fun, and it's there's something in the immediacy of 279 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: it you know, musicians are one of the few artists 280 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: UH categories that does something and gets an immediate response. 281 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: You know, if you're an actor, you might work on 282 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: a film for six months or a year, and then 283 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: it goes into editing, and then all of a sudden 284 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: it comes out a year later, and you're you don't 285 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: have a really response from the audience other than the 286 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: fact that you might walk down a red carpet someday 287 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: and you know, at the Oscars or something like that. 288 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: If you're a painter, you you know, you kind of 289 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: live in solitude and you paint your paintings and eventually 290 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: maybe they go up in a gallery, but there's there's 291 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: not that immediate feedback. And even in writing the book, 292 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: I found it a little frustrating writing the book because 293 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: I was so used to instant gratification. You write a song, 294 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: you pick up your guitar, you play it. People you 295 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: can tell if they like it or if they don't 296 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: like it. So it's kind of a little bit spoiled 297 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: on the instant graviication part of the deal. And writing 298 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: the book was such a long to year process that 299 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: I never did get feedback along the way. It's not 300 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: until right now when people are fine only reading it 301 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: that I'm like starting to feel this amazing, you know, 302 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: satisfaction that maybe I did something good here? Did you 303 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: feel like? Because I wrote a book by a year 304 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: and a half ago, and when I turned it in 305 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: it was really And I'm someone who's very vulnerable on 306 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: the air and on stage joined stand up, but when 307 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: I turned the book in it was such a vulnerable 308 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: thing because I had worked so long on it and 309 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: it was time to get opinions on something. Yeah, I 310 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: had put so much time into I was nervous about it. 311 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: To be honest with you, I'm never nervous about my 312 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: music because I kind of have I'm pretty good self editor. 313 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: I know if it's happening or not, and if it's 314 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: not happening, I'm not gonna play it or you know, 315 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: get an exposure. But the book, I didn't know. I 316 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: really didn't know. I felt good about it. I know, 317 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: I worked really hard on it. UM had a great collaborator, 318 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: as fellow named Price Epting, who really guided me through 319 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: the process. Um, but boy, I was I was nervous. 320 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: I didn't know what it's like to to bury soul 321 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: in a book that's there forever and and to put 322 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: it all out there. I felt like, as you talk 323 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: and you say, you know, you don't performed for the 324 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: love of the crowd and the immediate love that were you, 325 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: it sounds like you were loved as a kid. Would 326 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: you say that's fair? Yeah? I had a very I 327 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: had a really really nice, solid upbringing. My parents my 328 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: parents are still together. Um, you know my mom My 329 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: dad's ninety four, my mom's ninety two. Um, and uh, yeah, 330 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: it was a good it was a good upbringing. They 331 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: were They were very supportive. So you're a small town 332 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania. You had to filly with what on your 333 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: mind getting out of that small town. Just like a 334 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: million other kids, you know, and a million other musicians 335 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: get into the city, find out what what what? What 336 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: was there? Um? You know, spread my wings getting into 337 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: a more professional music scene. What do you want to find? 338 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to find someone who uh maybe could be 339 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: my equal take me someplace new, and I did. Which 340 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: is an interesting story too, and I've heard it before, 341 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: but when I read it in the book, there was 342 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: a little more detail because I don't aways heard that 343 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: you and Darryl were at a radio station together or 344 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 1: you know, at an event in someone in some shots 345 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: were fired and all of a sudden, the next thing 346 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: you know, here they are there band. But it wasn't 347 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: it wasn't quite that. No, no, no, no, talk about 348 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: that for a second, because you moved to Philly and 349 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: we're you're at a radio station in nineties sixty seven. 350 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: My high school band had been together some oh for 351 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: about four years, and we had various names, as most 352 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: high school bands do, and we we saved up our money. 353 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: We went down to Philly and we made a record. 354 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: We went to Virtue Recording Studio on North broad Street 355 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: where um a guy named Frank Virtue owned the studio. 356 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: He had a he had a big hit in the 357 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: fifties cold Guitar Boogie Shuffle with his own group called 358 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: the Virtues. It was an instrumental record, and we basically 359 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: paid him a few hundred dollars. We hired a guy 360 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: named Bobby Martin who was a brand young arranger who 361 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,239 Speaker 1: I found in the Yellow Pages, and he went on 362 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: to arrange and co produce stuff for gamblin Huff like 363 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: uh backstabbers and you know, a bunch of for the 364 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: love of Money with the o Js, you know, incredible guy, 365 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: but he was just starting out as well. He was 366 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: probably a few years older. And we went to front 367 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: to Virtue Sound and we uh, you know, we we 368 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: didn't have have a clue what we were doing, and 369 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: he helped us make our first record. After we we 370 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: put the record out independently with a little label from 371 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: Philadelphia called Crimson. At the same time, not I didn't 372 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: know this, of course, but Darryl Hall's group called the 373 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: Temp Tones was doing the exact same thing in a 374 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: different studio, and our records were being played on w 375 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: h A T and w D A S, which were 376 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: the two R and B stations in Philadelphia at the 377 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: same time. So we were both aware of each other 378 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: and this, you know, Philly was a pretty small music scene. 379 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: So before you move all we keep talking about R 380 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: and B stations. So it was the mostly white artists 381 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: on R and B stations and we were the only ones. 382 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: You just had a lot of soul, but you two 383 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: white guys had a lot of souls, I guess. So hey, listen, 384 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: they played us on their station. So whatever that means, 385 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: it is what it means. Um, you know, I don't know. 386 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: All I know is it got on the radio and 387 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: that was enough for me. It's at eighteen years old. 388 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: I was thrilled, you know, beyond and uh then um, 389 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: we both got asked to do a record hop for 390 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: this guy named Jimmy Bishop who was a big DJ 391 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: on w D A S. And he had a Sunday 392 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: afternoon teenage dance at a place called the Adelphi Ballroom 393 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: in West Philadelphia, a pretty bad neighborhood. So here's these 394 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, two little white groups, you know, kind of 395 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: cruising up to this place and backstage was was the 396 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: five stair Steps. Um. They had a song called in 397 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: My World Fantasy and a guy named Howard Tate who 398 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: had a single call look at Grandy Run Run, which 399 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: is a really cool tune. And so we're back there 400 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: and I was I was a bit intimidated, and uh 401 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: a gang fight broke out in the audience and we 402 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: got into the service elevator went down and we were like, hey, man, 403 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: I dig your song. Yeah. Gang fight like literally shots 404 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: were five yeah yeah in the in the audience. We 405 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: were backstage and we we split. The guys who were 406 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: with from the record company just took us out and 407 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: so you and Darrell end up in the same place. Yeah. So, 408 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: so basically our entire relationships based on fear and a 409 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: little bit agreed. Do you okay, now, let me let 410 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 1: me ask you this. I guess it'll go a little 411 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: more philosophical. Do you think that you and Darrel were 412 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: supposed to meet right there? I guess so I have. 413 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: I don't think of it that way. Um, but you know, 414 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: something happened. I mean, we were there in the same 415 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: place at the same time, making the same kind of music, 416 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: and we met. So you meet and you say, what 417 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: because you didn't join I knew that. I knew that 418 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: his group and the guys in his group, they were 419 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: a vocal group, like a doo wop street corner harmony group. 420 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: I knew they went to Temple University and I was 421 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: going to Temple University, and I knew that. And I 422 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: think that's what we said to each other more was like, hey, man, 423 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I'll see you it around, you know, 424 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: on the street or in campus or whatever. And we did. 425 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: We kind of ran into each other at the student 426 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: union or something, and we just started talking and hanging out. 427 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: And what had what had happened was Darryl's group, since 428 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: it was a vocal doo wop group. They didn't out 429 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: they needed a backup band, and they lost their backup band. 430 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: So I plucked um my drummer and my bass player 431 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: from my band, which was kind of they were basically, 432 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, falling apart, uh, and we backed Darryl's vocal 433 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: group up for a very short period of time. Then 434 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: my bass player got drafted into Vietnam and Uh, Darryl's 435 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: group broke up, and he and I just gravitated towards 436 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: each other and we started hanging out, sharing apartments and 437 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: that was it. So you get together, but and you're 438 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: out performing together, do you just go out? We're not performing, 439 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: you were you were just hanging out there. So it 440 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: didn't start with you too, like we were. No, we 441 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: weren't writing songs. Were Darryl had a Darryl had a 442 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: job with a with a bar band in New Jersey 443 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: called Pale and the Prophets, and he worked from like 444 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: ten o'clock at night to like three in the morning. UM. 445 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: I was playing folk music and teaching folk guitar lessons 446 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: and playing blues and jamming with some blues bands, but 447 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: mostly playing in coffee houses. A lot of traditional Delta 448 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: blues and stuff like that. So at what point into 449 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: you guys relationship, was it we actually kind of click musically, 450 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: we should well forward think we hung out a lot 451 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: and we had a lot of laughs and did a 452 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: lot of crazy stuff which you've probably read in the 453 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: book or will read. Um. But I went to Europe 454 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: when I graduated from college nine in the in the 455 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: spring of nineteen seventy, and I took all the money 456 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: I had saved it up. I had about four or 457 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: five and I sub let my apartment to Daryl's sister 458 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: and her boyfriend, and I took off for for Europe. 459 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: And I spent four months in Europe with a backpack 460 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: and a guitar. And when I came back from Europe 461 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: in October of nineteen seventy, I went to my apartment 462 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: and it was a padlock on the door, and um, 463 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: they had been evicted because they didn't pay the rent. 464 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: And I had nowhere to go, and I had no money, 465 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: and I had a backpack and a guitar. So I 466 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: walked over to where Daryl was living in this little 467 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: tiny place down near South Philadelphia, and I OpEd on 468 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: the door and I said, hey, man, your sister kind 469 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: of screwed me here. I'm like, I'm on the street. 470 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: He goes, come on, want you to stay here? And 471 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: I moved into the third floor, little room in the 472 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: third floor of that little tiny house, and uh, that's 473 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: where his piano was and books in a fireplace, and 474 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: we started writing songs. First of all, you guys ever 475 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: wrote it was, it was? It was pretty bad ter. 476 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: In fact, the first song we wrote, we went up 477 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: to Temple University and we snuck into the radio television 478 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 1: film department and we put it on tape and it 479 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: sounded so bid. We sounded so bad together that we said, 480 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: you know what, well, let's just hang out. This is 481 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: not never gonna work. But we just kind of kept 482 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: chipping away, and really one of the things that happened 483 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: was we almost from that experience. We we didn't sing together, 484 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: but what we decided to do instead was accompanying each other. 485 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: And that's best. That's the basis of our relationship. He 486 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: would play a song and I'd play guitar and I'd 487 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: sing some backgrounds. I would sing a song. He'd played piano, 488 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: and he'd sing with me. And that's kind of how 489 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: it really was. And that's really exactly how it always is. 490 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: So then what triggered the Okay, we should really try 491 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: this then, because so far sounds like a lot of 492 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: hanging out and I was successful, noise. There was a 493 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: lot of fun, a lot of fun, but you gotta 494 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: pay the bill. Well, we didn't have any money. We 495 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: I never had any money. I got if I could 496 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: scraunge together a cheese steak, kogi or or a soft 497 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: pretzels or tasty cake, you know, the the the Philadelphia 498 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: food staples at those times and those days, that was 499 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: a big deal. So it was tough. I played in 500 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: some blues bands, you know, and I scraped together some money, 501 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: and you know, it was always a little bit of 502 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: hash and stuff that you could, you know, sell a 503 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: dime here and there. Did you make good money? No 504 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: doing that, because I have a lot of a lot 505 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 1: of friends and they make good money doing I've never 506 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: been a successful salesman on any level. Had some friends 507 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: are really a good salesman growing up? Well not me. Uh, 508 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna The book is called Change of Seasons, and man, 509 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: it's so good. I mean, if you're a music fan, 510 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: if you're can I just say hold on note to 511 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: that you being mad, whatever you feeling, not at all. 512 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: Hey man, we got a limited amount of time. We've 513 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: got a lot of ground cover. Hold notes is good. 514 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: Let go Taryll haul and John notates. Let me talk 515 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: about Blue Apron for one second. You know, not all 516 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: ingredients are equal, so not all food is equal, and fresh, 517 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: high quality ingredients make a real difference. So it's important 518 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: to know where your food comes from. For me, I 519 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: love Blue Apron for a lot of reasons. One because 520 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: it gets delivered right to my door. Too, because it's 521 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: meals that I would never be able to cook without 522 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 1: their help. And three, it's just easy. It tastes good. 523 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: So let's start with affordable. For less than ten dollars 524 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: per person per mill, Blue Apron deliver seasonal recipes along 525 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: with preportioned ingredients to make delicious home cooked mills tons 526 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: of variety new recipes each week. Let Blue Aprons culinary 527 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: team surprise you. Recipes are not repeated, very flexible. And 528 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: I say easy because if I can do it, because 529 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: each mail comes with a step by step card and 530 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: you all preportioned shows you how to make it, I 531 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: can make it. I can actually make it. Tastes good guaranteed. 532 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: Check out this week's menu and get your first three 533 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: mails for free Blue Apron dot com slash Bobby cast 534 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: you love how good it feels. I get a taste 535 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: Blue Apron dot com slash Bobby casts. I love Blue Apron. 536 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,959 Speaker 1: It is a better way to cook. All right, So 537 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: we're back. Um, okay, let's talk about some other stuff here. 538 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: So you you guys go out, what's the first What 539 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: was the first time where you thought, okay, well this 540 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: could actually be something. We'll we're together and we can 541 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: do this, and let's go and try this together. Well, 542 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: what would we do is we would? Um. I started. 543 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: I started sitting on the steps in front of the house, 544 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: and I would have my guitar and I'd be playing. 545 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: I played a lot of Doc Watson in that Mississippi 546 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: genre and that kind of stuff. And Darryl was like 547 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: first because his piano was up on the third floor 548 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: and he couldn't very well carry it downstairs, so he 549 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: wanted to learn how to play mandolin. And he's such 550 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: a good musician he kind of picked it up pretty quick, 551 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: just you know, basic stuff. So we'd sit on the 552 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: steps and we like just play and I would teach 553 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: him these traditional American you know, country and blue grass 554 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and then we somehow started to 555 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: meld it into this weird thing and people would stop 556 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: and listen, and we were literally sitting on the steps 557 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: in front of our house. And then we went to 558 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: a place called the World Control Studio, which was kind 559 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: of a tongue in cheek thing because it was this 560 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: little hovel, this little tiny room with about four people 561 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: or fifteen people could sit there, and um, we booked 562 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: a gig and we said, let's just go and play. 563 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: So we dragged his piano out, we carried it down 564 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: the street, literally set it up and and carried it, 565 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: like physically carried it. And then we had excused the 566 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: guitar and we said we're going to play a gig, 567 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: and we kind of spread the word through our neighborhood. 568 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: And when the night came through the gig, all the 569 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: people and who we would see on street during day, 570 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: we're just sitting there. So it was a really weird thing. 571 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: It was like we were playing for the same people 572 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: that we saw every day, and and um, people seem 573 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: to like it. And then we got a chance to 574 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: do a there was a telethon for a charity in Philadelphia. 575 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: It was on local television and they were asking for 576 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: local performers to do it, and we said, let's go 577 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,239 Speaker 1: over and do it. See if we can do it. 578 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: And we went on TV and we played a couple 579 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: of these these kind of new songs that we were 580 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: working on. And the next day it was like everything changed. 581 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: People would stop us on the street. TV the power 582 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: of television and we It literally changed in one day. 583 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: People said, oh my god, we heard you guys, We 584 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: saw you guys on TV. It was really cool. And 585 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: then we started going to a There was a remember 586 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: Underground Radio FM radio when it was called Underground. There 587 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: was a great, great show on Sunday nights. UH fellow 588 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: named Gean Shay who had a folk show on Sunday night, 589 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: a singer songwriter show, and he, you know, it was freewheeling. 590 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 1: He would play, play anything and h he invited us 591 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: to come and play on his show. So on a 592 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: Sunday night, we went up there at about midnight and 593 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: I think he was on from like eleven to two 594 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: in the morning, and we went and dragged up Darrel's 595 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: piano up there and we sat and played for a 596 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: few hours, and between doing that radio show and that telethon, 597 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: all of a sudden we were we were a thing 598 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. And that's kind of how it started. So 599 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: how do you become a thing in Philadelphia? Turned that 600 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,719 Speaker 1: into a thing? Getting a record deal? Like does someone say, hey, 601 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: you should hear these guys and the guys shows up 602 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: and watches and goes youah, the next a lot of 603 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 1: hard work. No, no, no, it didn't quite work like that. 604 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: We actually signed to a production company as songwriters in Philadelphia, 605 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,719 Speaker 1: a guy named John Madera who had an office on 606 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: the fourth floor of the Super Theater building. On the 607 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: sixth floor, Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff had their offices. Uh, 608 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: they were just starting out as well. And um, John 609 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: Madari was known for stuff he did with the Dovel's 610 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: like the Bristol Stomp, Um, Lenn Barry one to three, Um, 611 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: you known't owe me, Leslie Gore, things like that, that 612 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: old you know that kind of sixties early rock and 613 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: roll thing. And he paid he paid us twenty five 614 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: dollars a week to write songs and basically would write 615 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: songs and he would put his name on them and 616 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: that's kind of how it worked. So you wrote the songs, 617 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: but he got the credit. Well he we were credited, 618 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: but Sosie. So you wrote the songs, but he also 619 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: wrote the songs according to this is music Business one 620 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: or one old school style, Philadelphia style. You know you 621 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: talk about that too, and not to dig us too much, 622 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: but in your book you talk about how when you 623 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: would get what's like up front money, they would pay you, 624 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: and the more they would pay you, the more rights 625 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: they would take. That comes way later. But yes, and 626 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: again not anyone I don't want to pull from the 627 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: time on here, but I read that. I was like wow, 628 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: because again, do you take more money and give up 629 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: more of your soul? You have to put yourself in 630 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: the time and the place where you are in your 631 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: life when you don't have any money and you don't 632 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: have anything, and the opportunity to have large amounts of 633 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: cash and to be a pop star and run around 634 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: the world and screw screw off and just be a 635 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: complete irresponsible kid, you pretty much take it. And that's 636 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,959 Speaker 1: what we did. And we should have been more aware, 637 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: we should have been where savvy, like a lot of 638 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: the young performers are today. But we weren't, and we 639 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: in a way we suffered for it, but in a 640 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: way it was the best thing that ever happened because 641 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: it changed me, forced me to become the person I 642 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: am today. But we're jumping away, yeah again. Like I said, 643 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: I read the book and I got so many of 644 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: these thoughts on my head because I like read it 645 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: like three days. Right, So okay, let's go back your filly. 646 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: I want to go to the first record now, because 647 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: you made two before the Silver record, that's three, you 648 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: made three. Yeah. We made an album called Whole Oats, 649 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: which was basically our folky singer songwriter Whole Oats, like 650 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: just like Quaker Oats, you know, but it sounds like whole. 651 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: We actually toured as Whole Notes as a band. We 652 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: called ourselves Whole Notes. We did Run to Um and 653 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: then we made the Abandoned Luncheonette album and we called 654 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: ourselves by our own names. And then when the Abandoned 655 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: Luncheonette album didn't connect, we left our Atlantic Records and 656 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: went to our CIA and we didn't no, I'm sorry. 657 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: We stayed on Atlantic and we did an album with 658 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: Todd Rundgren called war Babies, and that didn't connect. So 659 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: now we had made three albums. They were all distinctly different. 660 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: One was folky, one was kind of an acoustic R 661 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: and B, and one was an experimental rock album. And 662 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: nothing was working at that point. Are you like, Okay, 663 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: we're just not gonna work. We know, we never gave 664 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: up on ourselves, but we were afraid that the world 665 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: would give up on us. So we went to l 666 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: A with a guy from Philadelphia who worked on who 667 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: was actually in our touring band. He had gone to 668 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: l A and he had become a studio musician and 669 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: he got familiar with the In the mid seventies, l 670 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: A was really the place to be in terms of recording. 671 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: A lot of great players were there. You know, you 672 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: had the singers and writer cult with Jackson Brown and 673 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell and you know the Eagules and Linda runs 674 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: that we're all starting to happen. Um. So he convinced 675 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: us to go to l A. And we made that 676 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: silver album, the one you refer to that has Sarah 677 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: Smile on it. We made that in l A and 678 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: um that that album connected, and that was really the 679 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: beginning of us kind of coalescing a sound. I think, 680 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: so you make this record, and you know we were 681 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: talking about earlier and Sarah Smile gets played by DJ 682 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: and here it is, get your first hit. I'm just 683 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: hearing yourself on the radio. I'm assuming your rate to 684 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: play live goes up a little bit, a little bit. 685 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: I got a little bit of money. You want to 686 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: hear a funny story about John Sposito, I do. And 687 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: by the way, John Esposito right now is the head 688 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: of Warner and Asheville. By the way, he's I love 689 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: John Esposito just at background. He's also run a hip 690 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: hop label and he's very He's just a music guys. Yes, 691 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: you can tell me a story about John. He was 692 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 1: a student at Indiana State University in Pennsylvania, Indiana, Pennsylvania, 693 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: and Darrel and I were set to perform there and 694 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: we had a contract and he was the he was 695 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: the he was the student talent buyer and he uh, 696 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: he loved our band of Lunchinet album and he booked us. 697 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: He booked us for a very low amount of money, 698 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: right before Sarah Smile became a hit. So when the 699 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: date rolled around that we were supposed to play, um, 700 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: I supposed to play this show um. Our manager called 701 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: him and told him that we weren't coming unless he 702 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: like quadrupled the price. And s Spo was just a kid, 703 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: he was a student. And I don't know if you 704 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: know anything about our manager, but he was a guy 705 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: named Tommy Mattola, and he was like, I know, tommytol 706 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: For those who don't know, tom Attolo, sony huge. You know, 707 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: he has a whole other you know, he became something. 708 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: He became. Yes, well he had a tough street kind 709 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: of demeanor, let's put it that way. So he started 710 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: telling Espo John Esposito that he was gonna come brake 711 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: his legs, and Espos stood his ground and he got 712 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: us for the price, the original price, and to this 713 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: day is what I think, it's what spos proudest moments. So, 714 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 1: I mean, quite an investment. He vote you before and 715 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: then you hit in the middle play the song. So, 716 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: so is this the first song that when you would 717 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: travel out of your comfort zone that people with stinking 718 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: back to you and you were like, wow, it's kind 719 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: of weird. Yes, and no, it was actually She's gone 720 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: because the hardcore fans. We had built this hardcore college 721 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: fan base and they love She's Gone. It was known 722 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,399 Speaker 1: as in those days they called it a turntable bait 723 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: because it didn't connect on radio. But everyone loved it, 724 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: and in colleges across the country, this song was just 725 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: a standard and this was the one that they really like. 726 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: And of course Sarah Smart too on the front of 727 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: the of the silver record. Now, I'm thinking of the 728 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: picture here, right, I know, I know what you're thinking of. 729 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,720 Speaker 1: You guys had makeup on talking about in the book 730 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: to how they made you look like women, you know, 731 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: in the same guy did Bowie So but I'm too, 732 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: and you had facial hair so you could tell you 733 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: were a dude. But if I was looking for the 734 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: first time, I would have thought Darren was a woman. Daryl. 735 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: Daryl makes a joke about it. He said, he said, 736 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: he looks like he looks like the girl which he 737 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: could date. Yeah, like kind of hot. I was like, 738 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: who's the hunch with John. So they come to I'm 739 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: assuming did you I shouldn't assume did you have final 740 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: say over that cover or did the record lable to 741 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: say this is it? We're putting it up. Here's how 742 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: it worked. We were living in Greenwich Village. It was 743 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: the beginning of the glam rock era. We were hanging 744 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: out with Mick Jagger and Todd Rundgren and Bowie and 745 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: all these people, and that's what was happening and everyone 746 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,399 Speaker 1: was doing. If you look at the albums from those days, 747 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: look at Edgar Winner, Rick Derringer, Todd run Green, you know, 748 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: everyone had makeup on. It was that's kind of you know, 749 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: and bisexual era, and especially down in the village, and 750 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,240 Speaker 1: so we got caught up in it. It would seem 751 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: like a cool thing to do. And Pierre Laroche was 752 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: a very flamboyant like guy. He he was in the 753 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: high fashion world, you know, with all the models and 754 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,280 Speaker 1: all that stuff, and he said one night over dinner, 755 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: he goes, I will immortalize you. And that's exactly what 756 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: he did. Because to this day that's the only album 757 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: covers anyone ever asked us about. So there you go. 758 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: I just was looking in the book. Came up again 759 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: and I went and looked at it again because I've 760 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: seen it a hundred times. And then after I heard 761 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: the story, I was like, yeah, Darrel looks like a 762 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: hot chick again. You had the facial hairs, all that 763 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: kind of hard kind of dude, you know what I'm saying. 764 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: So uh talking about da have a boy for a second. 765 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: So you had a personal relationship outside of music. Yes, 766 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: we we opened the show for him on his first 767 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 1: tour because you opened though, and and there's a lot 768 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,959 Speaker 1: of music. Sometimes you don't get to hang with well, 769 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: you didn't hang with David Bowie, especially doing a Laddin 770 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: saying when he was doing Ziggy Stardust. There was no 771 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: hanging involved. It was crazy. You know, it's hard to 772 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: even describe how crazy the early seventies were, um in 773 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: terms of let's just put it this way, if I 774 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: would have done what I did in the early seventies today, 775 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: I'd be in prison. So there were no cell phones, 776 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 1: no records of anything happening social media. It was crazy, 777 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: and but it was fun. What was social media say 778 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: about you if it existed then, Like, what would have 779 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: been the big headline? Be in prison? I'm not going 780 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things you got to prison for, 781 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: I know, but I'm not going any further than that. 782 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: Did you, guys whenever did you do the hotel hotel 783 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: trashing thing? Because that seemed to be quite the phace 784 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: for for a minute, No, you never you never just 785 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: trashed the hotel if you if you really want to know, 786 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: I mean, i'd say the only thing we trashed was 787 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: a lot of bed sheets. Let's just leave it at that. 788 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: You don't have to leave it at that. You said 789 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: it all like it Okay, there's interesting a lot of ye. 790 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: There are a lot of questions that follow that that. Mom, 791 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,280 Speaker 1: I don't think you need to ask any more questions 792 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: about that. I think you just let your imagination run. 793 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: Why did you ever get tired of that? It? Was 794 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 1: there ever a point in your life we're like, Okay, 795 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,760 Speaker 1: I've just been looking up a lot and I'm tired 796 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,439 Speaker 1: of this because listen, I was like, I've never got girls, right, 797 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: so I never This is like the opposite. I never 798 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: got girls, and I was tired of never getting girls, 799 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: and then finally now I have a good job and 800 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, good did you ever get to 801 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: the point where were like, I'm just tired of this 802 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: and you can say no because that's totally cool because 803 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: I know, okay, good, Okay, So let's talk about the 804 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: yes at a certain point. Yes, I did when I 805 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: finally got married to my wife of today, of twenty 806 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: four years today. Yes, what was it about her though 807 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: that made it different? Because I well, it was a 808 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: combination of meeting her and realizing that not only was 809 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: she a great person and someone I wanted to spend 810 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: more time with and be more responsible with, but it 811 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 1: was also it coincided with this whole change of life 812 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: that occurred because of what happened to me in New York. 813 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: I got divorced, had a financial collapse, I lost my manager, 814 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: moved to Colorado, and I basically wanted to start over 815 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: and reinvent myself, and I knew that in order to 816 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: do that, I had to become a different person. There 817 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: was no way that I could live the life I 818 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: had been leading for all those years and survive and 819 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: have any kind of meaningful relationship. So really that's what 820 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: changed it for me. On a place that these number 821 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:45,359 Speaker 1: one for a second, just one here for example, girl 822 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: well Um Darryl's girlfriend Sandy Sarah Allen Sarah Um. I 823 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: had a friend from college who was the heir to 824 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: a fast food fortune, and he was this dude who 825 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: was very irresponsible and completely whacked out of his brain. 826 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,240 Speaker 1: And he came over to the house one day and 827 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,479 Speaker 1: UH was just acting like a complete lunatic. And after 828 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: he left, Darrell literally sat down and wrote that song. Uh, 829 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,959 Speaker 1: Darrell wrote that and he he said, you're a rich boy. 830 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: You've gone too far. You can rely on your old 831 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: man's money because he lived on his on a trust fund. 832 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, after having come up with 833 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,959 Speaker 1: that hook, he went, well, that's ain't I ain't gonna 834 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: cut it. Let's just turn it to rich girl. And 835 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: that was it. Now that I have heard that, I'm 836 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 1: gonna do it again. Of all that, and I've got, 837 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: you know, an entire library of music here. But what 838 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: song fell out? You know some artists say, you know 839 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: what a set down, and it's fell out of mean it, 840 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: Mac'm a huge hit. She's gone, she's gone. Absolutely, I'll 841 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: keep going back to that. But there's a reason for it. 842 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: It's this quintisential Homewood songs and it's a it's something 843 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: where we both shared this common experience and we wrote 844 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: the song like in a fever dream. Uh. It literally 845 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: wrote itself. It took about as long to write as 846 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,800 Speaker 1: almost as it took the play. And you and you 847 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: knew something specially, Let's do the opposite then of definitely 848 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: number one. But of your big songs that people know, 849 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: like casual fans will call that, which song just was 850 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: so grueling and you're like, this is it just took forever? Yeah, 851 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: there was a couple. There was a few that took 852 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: a while to kind of marinate. Let's put it that way. 853 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: Man Eater was one. Um. I got the idea from 854 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: man Eater um when when I was down in Jamaica 855 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,359 Speaker 1: and uh I came back to New York and uh 856 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: I had this experience with a bunch of my friends 857 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: hanging out at After Hour's restaurant and this woman came 858 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: in and she was just completely gorgeous and so beautiful, 859 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: but she had the fouless mouth that you've ever heard 860 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 1: in your life. And I just looked at her and 861 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: I went, oh, man, she would shoot you up and 862 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 1: spit you out. And it stuck in my head. So 863 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: I got home and I wrote chorus for man Eater 864 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,720 Speaker 1: as a reggae song, and then I had a writing 865 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,439 Speaker 1: session with Edgar Winner uptown and he lived on Park 866 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 1: Avenue and I went up to Edgar Winner's house and 867 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: we started fooling around with some ideas and I said, well, 868 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: I got this one idea, and I played him this 869 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: reggae thing that I was working on. It was, oh, 870 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,840 Speaker 1: here's she comes, watch that brought you to you, but 871 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 1: in a reggae style. And he wasn't into reggae, you know, 872 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: Edgar Winner was a blues player, and he kind of 873 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: just kind of ignored the idea and said, you know 874 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: that's not for me or whatever, and uh so I 875 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: hear again. I kind of lodged my brain and I 876 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: got together with Darryll and played it for him too, 877 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: and he said, he said, now, man, you gotta just 878 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 1: change the groove. He goes, it's cool, idea, Let's just 879 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: change the groove. And he was the one that came 880 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: up with the motown groove kind of bom bomp bomp, 881 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: bomp bump, and so being a tough one, it took 882 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: a while. I mean it took like three or four 883 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 1: different attempts in different styles before we landed on that 884 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,280 Speaker 1: motown groove and then finished the song in that style. 885 00:43:58,360 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 1: When you hit the motown group, we're like, all right, 886 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: this one's it. Yeah. Well it felt good right away. 887 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 1: We didn't know it was it or not, but it 888 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: felt pretty good. What was the biggest surprise that you 889 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: guys had where you were like, I can't believe the 890 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 1: song is doing so freaking good. Um, I can't go 891 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 1: for that really jam. But the thing is, there's only 892 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: two inchs three instruments on the song. There's a keyboard, 893 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: a guitar, and sex a drum machine. It's one of 894 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: the first records ever to be a hit on a 895 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: drum machine? Is that right? And you couldn't believe this thanking? 896 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: Was it? We thought? We thought it was just a 897 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: kind of a cool little jam. It is a cool 898 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:48,759 Speaker 1: little jam. That's why. So who convinces you then that 899 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: that's a great song, because if you guys route it 900 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,879 Speaker 1: into a cool little jam? Like by time that song 901 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: came out, we were on such a role in the 902 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: eighties that it seemed like everything we released turned into 903 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: a hit. It was just one of those things where 904 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: radio was in sync with our sound. Our sound was 905 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: the sound that radio liked, and they just gobbled everything up. 906 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,800 Speaker 1: It was almost too easy in a in a weird way. 907 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 1: At what age were you able to look at your 908 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: bank account and have a million dollars? Do you remember 909 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,440 Speaker 1: I have a million dollar check set in plexiglass on 910 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: my desk at home. It was my first million dollar check. 911 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,840 Speaker 1: But the funny thing about it is that I've never 912 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: got any of the money, but I had to check. Well, 913 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: it disappeared into this black hole of debt, of crazy 914 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: ship that we were if we were living. I don't 915 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,359 Speaker 1: know where it went. All I know is they gave 916 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: us this check and they said, here's a million dollar check, 917 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,080 Speaker 1: and I went, oh cool. And I had encased in 918 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: plexiglass and I always look at it and I laughed 919 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: because to me, it's just a it's a one with 920 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: six numbers. When did you become a millionaire? At? What age? Um? 921 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: And what you spending? Like crazy? Before you even reached that. No, 922 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't spending before, but the moment we started making money, 923 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 1: I definitely started spending. I started buying cars. That was 924 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: my first thing. That's what everyone does. You buy a car. 925 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 1: That's like the classic thing. In fact, it's always funny 926 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: when I see when I see young performers and people 927 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: I know here in Nashville, I was I was the 928 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 1: first thing I always do when I when I see 929 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,439 Speaker 1: them having some success, like I always asking what kind 930 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: of car they're driving because I know it's pretty much 931 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 1: the first purchase, um and it should be. It's you know, 932 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,239 Speaker 1: it's kind of write of passage. I don't know, um Man. 933 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,600 Speaker 1: In the seventies we started getting these advances and that's 934 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: when this whole house of cards started to get build 935 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 1: bigger and bigger, and just pull one joker from the 936 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,840 Speaker 1: bottom and the thing it's gonna fall apart. Tell me 937 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 1: about Private Eyes. Well, the Private Eyes was actually written 938 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: by a gal named Jane Allen, who was sarah sister, 939 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 1: younger sister, and she was hanging out with us, and uh, 940 00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: she was a great girl and she wanted to she 941 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: was learning to play the tour and she had a 942 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,279 Speaker 1: really cool pop sensibility. She came with that idea and 943 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 1: she was working with a guy named Warren Pass who 944 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: actually lives here in Nashville. Uh, and uh, they actually 945 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: played it for Darryl, and Darryl kind of took their 946 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:18,840 Speaker 1: idea and recrafted. So as I was, by the way, again, 947 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 1: I recommend fully this book if you're a Hall and 948 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: Oates fan, or if you're a Darryl Hall and John 949 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,399 Speaker 1: Oates fan, or if you're just a music fan, one 950 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 1: of the three any other three. Yeah, because again one, 951 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 1: it's all it's it's like a history of music, but 952 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,160 Speaker 1: too it's easy to read, especially for someone like me, 953 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,360 Speaker 1: because again I was I was so because when I 954 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: got I was like, man, I want to kind of go. 955 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 1: Then I was like, oh, this is cool because chapters 956 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,479 Speaker 1: are like four pages and it's like on the next 957 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 1: story exactly. You can fall asleep in bed, can read 958 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,920 Speaker 1: a chapter and fall and you can move around too. 959 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 1: Quite frankly, you can bounce around exactly. You don't have 960 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,160 Speaker 1: to read it. And you know from beginning then I 961 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: made a lot of notes here, so we knew all 962 00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 1: that from my heart. I made pages I was making. 963 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,440 Speaker 1: It's like, listen, I just appreciate the fact that you 964 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: read it. Made twenty albums, all all all done? Right? 965 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,319 Speaker 1: About twenty albums maybe more with live albums and compilations. 966 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 1: Does that count to you though? Live albums and compilations 967 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,239 Speaker 1: in your heart? The live out we've made we've made 968 00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,320 Speaker 1: to live albums. Uh yeah, you know they're kind of extra, 969 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: kind of extra curricular activity. Over sixty million records sold, 970 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:31,240 Speaker 1: and I was thinking about this. That's a big number. Yeah, 971 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,600 Speaker 1: I mean it's is it weird to go into countries 972 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 1: that you've never been before, not even because the cool 973 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,720 Speaker 1: thing for me is I get to go into like places. 974 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 1: For example, I went into um like Cedar Rapids, never 975 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: been sed Rapids. Before I go up, you stand up. 976 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,479 Speaker 1: And people are a big fans because because my shows 977 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 1: all over the country, and it's cool for me to 978 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: go into towns and relate to these people that I've 979 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:52,880 Speaker 1: never met. I've never been to their town, but you 980 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 1: would go to different parts of the world. How crazy 981 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: to go to a different part of the world and 982 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 1: they know who you are. It's it's it's pretty heavy. 983 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,600 Speaker 1: It's a heavy experience. It's it's tough not to let 984 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,480 Speaker 1: it go to your head and to let it get 985 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,359 Speaker 1: out of control, and unfortunately it happens to a lot 986 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 1: of people, you know. I think Darrel and I were 987 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,320 Speaker 1: very We're not the same in a lot of ways 988 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,320 Speaker 1: in our personal lives, but we have the same work 989 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,839 Speaker 1: ethic and we both kind of stay in control enough 990 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,320 Speaker 1: to keep doing what we're doing. I think that was 991 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,840 Speaker 1: kind of a kind of a kind of an overriding 992 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,920 Speaker 1: kind of trait that we both seem to have. The 993 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:36,000 Speaker 1: Voices album for a hundred weeks that changed everything it was, 994 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,239 Speaker 1: it was on It was on the jar for a 995 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,800 Speaker 1: hundred weeks. That's first album we produced ourselves, a hundred weeks. 996 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm telling that you don't know this about hundred weeks. 997 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,719 Speaker 1: I have no idea. Yeah you don't. I'm breaking news 998 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,960 Speaker 1: to you right now. A hundred of weeks. Okay, is 999 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,920 Speaker 1: that a long that's a long time. Let me tell 1000 00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 1: you how many weeks during a year and then you 1001 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:56,000 Speaker 1: tell me like basically two years that things on the chart. Wow, well, 1002 00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 1: it's pretty good record it I would agree with that, Dave, 1003 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: talk about that for a second. You know what, that 1004 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 1: that was our That was our rebirth in the eighties. 1005 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,399 Speaker 1: That that led that album was the thing that that 1006 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,600 Speaker 1: made the eighties happen for us. What had happened was 1007 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: all through the seventies. We're still in that mindset of 1008 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 1: in the old record you know, in the old record days, uh, 1009 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,239 Speaker 1: an artist had to have a producer. It was just 1010 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,000 Speaker 1: you didn't go into recording studio without our producer, kind 1011 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 1: of like your you know, kind of your you know, 1012 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,319 Speaker 1: big brother, your dad, your overseer making sure he could 1013 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,839 Speaker 1: report back to the record company, make sure everything was right. 1014 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 1: And we had gotten to the point where we just 1015 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: we realized we were making our own records. But we 1016 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: had record producers sitting in the room and it wasn't 1017 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,359 Speaker 1: it didn't feel right, and we just said, you know what, 1018 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,319 Speaker 1: let's just produce ourselves. And that was the album where 1019 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,960 Speaker 1: we decided to produce ourselves. And that record changed everything 1020 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: and it really set the tone for the rest of 1021 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,440 Speaker 1: the eighties. So again, I'm gonna go from memory. So 1022 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 1: I messed up stop me here, but on that record, 1023 00:50:54,719 --> 00:51:03,719 Speaker 1: like this, this was a total fluid flup. Okay, Well, 1024 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,960 Speaker 1: Jane Allen came up with this idea the same Galet 1025 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,600 Speaker 1: came up with the idea for Private Eyes, and she 1026 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,840 Speaker 1: brought it to Darryl, and Darryl didn't want her um. 1027 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,280 Speaker 1: He wanted to help her, just to help her finish 1028 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,800 Speaker 1: the song. So he sat down to piano after hours 1029 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,920 Speaker 1: after one of our recording sessions, and he said, you 1030 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,240 Speaker 1: know what, he said, I gotta do this demo for Jana, 1031 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,080 Speaker 1: just so you know, we'll have a little song for her. 1032 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,040 Speaker 1: So he turned on the drum machine and he played 1033 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: the piano and sang the song. The engineer said, well, 1034 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: you know, if this is just a demo, why don't 1035 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,839 Speaker 1: we just recorded a fest Now that means inches per 1036 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,400 Speaker 1: second In the old days, when you're recording the tape, 1037 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: the fast of the tapes speed, the better quality recording 1038 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,959 Speaker 1: you tap. Um. So we would normally record a thirty 1039 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,880 Speaker 1: i p s. But he said, well, let's save tape. 1040 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 1: You know, tapes expensive, Let's just do it at fifteen. 1041 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 1: So we slowed the tape machine down. Daryl played the 1042 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,399 Speaker 1: thing and he took it in and our manager heard 1043 00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,600 Speaker 1: it and said, what's that. He said, it's a little 1044 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,360 Speaker 1: demo made for for Jenna, and that's it. Came a 1045 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,760 Speaker 1: huge hit record. So the demo, the demos at ips. 1046 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,560 Speaker 1: So it's got this warbly quality to it that you 1047 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't have had if we've done it at thirty, or 1048 00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,799 Speaker 1: if we would have actually thought about it, like in 1049 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,399 Speaker 1: terms of recording it as a single. Did this song 1050 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,399 Speaker 1: start slower than you guys maybe thought it would. Yeah, 1051 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,799 Speaker 1: this kind of it just yeah, we didn't know that 1052 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,520 Speaker 1: this would even happen. Um. Yeah, I can't remember if 1053 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,760 Speaker 1: it was the first single or the second or third, 1054 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,560 Speaker 1: but we had about four singles off that end. Again, 1055 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,120 Speaker 1: I'm just going from memory. I think it was the 1056 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: first it might have been, because did You Make My 1057 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,080 Speaker 1: Dreams Come True? Was the second or third? To me? 1058 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 1: The reason that it sticks out to me because Voices 1059 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,319 Speaker 1: was such a big record it was not for two years, 1060 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,520 Speaker 1: was that that was such a big record even though 1061 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,640 Speaker 1: the song was and again it could have been second. 1062 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,360 Speaker 1: Again I'm going from memory, but that it was. It 1063 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,879 Speaker 1: took a while, and usually wasn't that takes a while. 1064 00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,520 Speaker 1: At first you don't see the whole project turned into 1065 00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,759 Speaker 1: a monster, but it did turn into a monster. Well, 1066 00:52:57,800 --> 00:52:59,480 Speaker 1: we had You Make My Dreams Come True? And we 1067 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,480 Speaker 1: had um uh, the Righteous we covered the Righteous brothers. 1068 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,080 Speaker 1: You lost that love and feeling, which also was a 1069 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:10,799 Speaker 1: total fluke. That was a crazy fluke. Well, we had 1070 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,439 Speaker 1: finished the album. We thought we had finished the album, 1071 00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,759 Speaker 1: and um we had in those days what we would 1072 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,920 Speaker 1: do when we finished an album. We never let the 1073 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,319 Speaker 1: record company into the recording studio while we were playing 1074 00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,440 Speaker 1: because we didn't want any interference. We just wanted to 1075 00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,920 Speaker 1: do what we wanted to do. And um, so we 1076 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,920 Speaker 1: had something we always traditionally had something called listening party 1077 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,400 Speaker 1: where when we were done the album, we'd bring everyone 1078 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,840 Speaker 1: of the recording studio, our friends, you know, hangers on whoever, 1079 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,239 Speaker 1: the record company agents, and we would literally have a 1080 00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,439 Speaker 1: listening party. We'd have some wine and some food and 1081 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,239 Speaker 1: we played the record. So we played the record and 1082 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,920 Speaker 1: every woe's digging it and we felt really good about it. 1083 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,920 Speaker 1: And afterwards we went out to pizza place in the 1084 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 1: village right next to the studio to get a bite 1085 00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,080 Speaker 1: to eat, and Darren and I would both looked at 1086 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,719 Speaker 1: each other. We said, you know, the record is not 1087 00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,480 Speaker 1: quite done. There's something missing. We didn't know what it was. 1088 00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,520 Speaker 1: And at that very moment, and God's honest truth is 1089 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,000 Speaker 1: so weird. The Righteous Brother's original version of you Lost 1090 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,560 Speaker 1: that Love and Feeling came on the jukebox and we 1091 00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,839 Speaker 1: just looked at each other. Let's cut that, and we 1092 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,920 Speaker 1: went in the next day we cut we with the band, 1093 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 1: we cut it live, We sang it, and we were 1094 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:24,200 Speaker 1: finished in about three hours. And there you go, you're 1095 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,800 Speaker 1: reading hanging out and you heard it. Something was missing. 1096 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,319 Speaker 1: We added on the record. On that same record, this 1097 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:34,680 Speaker 1: song comes out. This is one of those songs they 1098 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:39,680 Speaker 1: continue to stay cool. It does, and it's it's one 1099 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,640 Speaker 1: of those songs that just seems to everyone. It's just 1100 00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,960 Speaker 1: a happy, great groove, and you know, it didn't really 1101 00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,799 Speaker 1: it wasn't really a big hit when it came out. 1102 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:49,800 Speaker 1: I think it was a big hit it came it 1103 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,960 Speaker 1: went to number five or four or something like that, 1104 00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: so it wasn't like a huge number one record, but 1105 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,520 Speaker 1: it was still a song that people liked. And then 1106 00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:01,759 Speaker 1: in the past ten years it's gone nuts and Five 1107 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,600 Speaker 1: Days of Summer, you know what. I went to see that. 1108 00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,759 Speaker 1: Everyone was telling me, hey, you guys got a tune 1109 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,759 Speaker 1: in Five Days of Summer, this little kind of indie film, right, 1110 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,240 Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah. So one day, my my 1111 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,400 Speaker 1: son and my wife and I were at the Grove 1112 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,319 Speaker 1: in l A on a tour. We had a day off, 1113 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,759 Speaker 1: and he said, hey, that movie Five Minute Days of 1114 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,120 Speaker 1: Summer is playing. Let's go in, and was in the afternoon. 1115 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:24,719 Speaker 1: There was no one in the theater. There were a 1116 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,239 Speaker 1: few girls in the theater and um teenage girls, and 1117 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,200 Speaker 1: we sat down and when it came on in that scene, 1118 00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:36,560 Speaker 1: the girls started clapping and I was like, oh my god, yeah, 1119 00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:40,239 Speaker 1: they went nuts. And I think, honestly, I think it's 1120 00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,400 Speaker 1: one of the best marriages of film and music that 1121 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,520 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. And the Little Bird, everything about it 1122 00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,479 Speaker 1: is right. The way the director handled it, the fact 1123 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,680 Speaker 1: that he chose that song, the fact that he said 1124 00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,239 Speaker 1: it in that setting, and it's just this little love 1125 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,800 Speaker 1: affair in the park and it's just this beautiful summer afternoon. 1126 00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,440 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a perfect compliment. First song, Like, I 1127 00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,439 Speaker 1: really like the song. Right then when the movie came out, 1128 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,960 Speaker 1: I found myself let's like, well, that's the power of 1129 00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,960 Speaker 1: the filmmaking. I think. I think, like I said that, 1130 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:18,560 Speaker 1: the directors just he he nailed it. Of all of 1131 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,200 Speaker 1: your song, which song do you think made you the 1132 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:28,759 Speaker 1: most money? M hmm. I probably say I can't go 1133 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,000 Speaker 1: for that or at a touch perhaps, So if you 1134 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:33,480 Speaker 1: go I can't go for that, is it because it's 1135 00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,680 Speaker 1: being used in a lot of places. Well, add a 1136 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,040 Speaker 1: touch and you make my dream I mean, I'm sorry, 1137 00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,600 Speaker 1: I can't go for that, and you make my dreams 1138 00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,960 Speaker 1: come true. Have done the best in terms of sinks, 1139 00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,520 Speaker 1: licenses for film commercials and things like that. If your 1140 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,440 Speaker 1: song gets picked for a commercial, like that's pretty good 1141 00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,359 Speaker 1: money right in this day and age, It's really quite 1142 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,960 Speaker 1: good considering there's not many income streams left in the 1143 00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,280 Speaker 1: music business. You know, you guys and I was driving 1144 00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,560 Speaker 1: down and I saw that you were playing and it 1145 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:07,240 Speaker 1: said you know Daryl Hall and yes, and I was like, okay, 1146 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,240 Speaker 1: so they're playing UM the show and again I'm an idiot, 1147 00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:12,200 Speaker 1: and I was like, I wonder why they're not a 1148 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,920 Speaker 1: constut Hall notes they they changed businesses and now you know, 1149 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:22,000 Speaker 1: trying to um. So from whenever the nineties come around, 1150 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,439 Speaker 1: because the eighties, like you guys dominated, the nineties come around, 1151 00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,200 Speaker 1: but also comes a shift. Just like every generation, a 1152 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,800 Speaker 1: shift of music happens, and you go from that eighties 1153 00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,360 Speaker 1: sound in the eighties look too well grunge will say, 1154 00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,920 Speaker 1: the grunge moves in the Nirvana's Pearl James, the Seattle 1155 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,360 Speaker 1: based music comes in. Does that totally cut your legs 1156 00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,439 Speaker 1: out from underneath you? You know, it would have if 1157 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,560 Speaker 1: we would have tried to compete with it, but we didn't. 1158 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,160 Speaker 1: We had we had sense to know that it was 1159 00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,640 Speaker 1: not our time anymore. We knew that there was a 1160 00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:54,120 Speaker 1: seismic shift as you exactly as you just described, and 1161 00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,680 Speaker 1: it was kind of a shift back to primitive rawness 1162 00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,640 Speaker 1: that grunge kind of represented. And it was not about melody, 1163 00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,560 Speaker 1: it was not about chords, and it was not about singing, 1164 00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,360 Speaker 1: which is what we're all about. And we knew that 1165 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,760 Speaker 1: our time it was not our time, and we we 1166 00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,440 Speaker 1: had the common sense to kind of back off and 1167 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,640 Speaker 1: we continued to record, but we we began to think 1168 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,000 Speaker 1: of ourselves in a different way. We said, what can 1169 00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,520 Speaker 1: we do now, Okay, we're not going to be these 1170 00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,280 Speaker 1: pop stars forever. One way or the other. It's going 1171 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,800 Speaker 1: to end, whether you know it ends because we get 1172 00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,400 Speaker 1: too old, or we don't deliver anymore or whatever, or 1173 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,080 Speaker 1: the world just doesn't want to hear the kind of 1174 00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,640 Speaker 1: music we make. And we knew that, and so what 1175 00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,880 Speaker 1: we did was we we kind of went back to 1176 00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:40,200 Speaker 1: our songwriter roots and we said, let's just write good 1177 00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,800 Speaker 1: songs and we'll play them for our fans. And that's 1178 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,160 Speaker 1: when we became independent artists, when we actually left the 1179 00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,200 Speaker 1: major label. To our credit and I will you kind 1180 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,400 Speaker 1: of blow our collective horn here a little bit um, 1181 00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,640 Speaker 1: we were one of the first classic artists or a 1182 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,960 Speaker 1: big time artists to actually leave the major labels and 1183 00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,520 Speaker 1: say we don't need a label anymore. And we released 1184 00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:06,600 Speaker 1: everything from on as an independent artist. We've never had 1185 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:12,120 Speaker 1: a label since. So did you see as that came in. 1186 00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,120 Speaker 1: Could you look back and see when you're when you came, 1187 00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:19,440 Speaker 1: because you guys were a new sound. When something comes 1188 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,000 Speaker 1: in like that on you, then can you look back 1189 00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,320 Speaker 1: and go, Wow, we did this, And maybe I didn't 1190 00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,960 Speaker 1: appreciate the fact that we were the new sound and 1191 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:31,160 Speaker 1: we knocked some people out. Interesting, You're right, I know 1192 00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,080 Speaker 1: when you're when you're kicking ass and taking names and 1193 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,960 Speaker 1: trying to make it, you don't think like that. All 1194 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,520 Speaker 1: you care about is is the road ahead. As you 1195 00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 1: look back though, now, can you see it? And I 1196 00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,200 Speaker 1: can see it? Yes. In fact, I wrote a song 1197 00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,040 Speaker 1: about that. I wrote a song. I was coming back 1198 00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,920 Speaker 1: from New Orleans and I was sitting in first class 1199 00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,800 Speaker 1: and I was sitting next to Frankie Valley and we 1200 00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,560 Speaker 1: we talked on the airplane and we had never met before, 1201 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,640 Speaker 1: and I was I was a in but he I 1202 01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,720 Speaker 1: could tell, you know, his error was over. And this 1203 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,480 Speaker 1: is way pre Jersey Boys. You know, I'm talking about 1204 01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,360 Speaker 1: an era of time when he this was the seventies. 1205 01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,360 Speaker 1: It was in the middle of him being a real 1206 01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,840 Speaker 1: singing star and Jersey Boys. It wasn't that the middle, 1207 01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:20,200 Speaker 1: but there was no Broadway show that that kind of 1208 01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:24,160 Speaker 1: you know, elevated, and he was an oldies guy, and 1209 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,880 Speaker 1: I was kind of on the way up, you know, 1210 01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:30,480 Speaker 1: and I saw myself and him in a little in 1211 01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,760 Speaker 1: some way, and it wasn't you know. I didn't feel 1212 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,400 Speaker 1: sorry for him and anyway. It's just I could see that, Hey, 1213 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,480 Speaker 1: you can be a huge star and you can also 1214 01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,680 Speaker 1: fall down. Maybe your time is over. And I wrote 1215 01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 1: a song called back Together Again, and the song was 1216 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,680 Speaker 1: about really about him in a way. It was back 1217 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:52,040 Speaker 1: together again, back together again, singing the same old story. 1218 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,080 Speaker 1: Back together again, the old songs never end, gives you 1219 01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,760 Speaker 1: something to believe in, and I kind of got the 1220 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,720 Speaker 1: inspiration to write the song about about him. Everyone thinks 1221 01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:03,800 Speaker 1: it's about getting back here for your girlfriend or whatever, 1222 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,640 Speaker 1: but it's not. It's about you and Franky validating again. Yes, 1223 01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:11,560 Speaker 1: having a date in first class on a on a 1224 01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:15,040 Speaker 1: flight from New Orles. Yeah, so you get the call 1225 01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:16,840 Speaker 1: to be in the Rock Corroll Hall of Fame again. 1226 01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:24,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go for a memory twenty yes. So, and 1227 01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,000 Speaker 1: I remember watching it on television and I remember you guys, 1228 01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,120 Speaker 1: And it's funny now that we're talking here all these things, 1229 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,400 Speaker 1: because you guys were in the same class that Nirvana 1230 01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:36,560 Speaker 1: was in the same guys, that kind of change the 1231 01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,360 Speaker 1: sound that you were in. Yeah, you know what, I 1232 01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,040 Speaker 1: never thought about that, But that's that's very very interesting 1233 01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,439 Speaker 1: point that you you picked up on. I'm a great 1234 01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,440 Speaker 1: interview with John. I'm enjoying that. I'm enjoying this thoroughly. 1235 01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:51,960 Speaker 1: I'm just such a music fan and I think I 1236 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:53,360 Speaker 1: can sit here and talk to you for four hours 1237 01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,880 Speaker 1: about every everything and in the book. To me was 1238 01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,080 Speaker 1: again of everything in the book. And I hope people 1239 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:00,800 Speaker 1: listen to this. And if you're reader, and if you're 1240 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,000 Speaker 1: even if you're not a reader and you're like music. 1241 01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:04,680 Speaker 1: That's why I say it's easy to read. I want 1242 01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:09,720 Speaker 1: people to know that, um is that I do write 1243 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,320 Speaker 1: on a sixth grade level. You know, you're a piece 1244 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,160 Speaker 1: of music. You're you're a piece of music history, Like 1245 01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,040 Speaker 1: you're the highest that you can pull. You're in the 1246 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,680 Speaker 1: Rock and All Hall of Fame, Like that's the top 1247 01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:23,320 Speaker 1: one percent. That's nowhere else to go, right, there's nowhere 1248 01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:28,960 Speaker 1: else to go except down. Huh do you ever go down? 1249 01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,240 Speaker 1: Or do you? Just like I don't you go in 1250 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,720 Speaker 1: and you have all these people honor you and talk 1251 01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:42,240 Speaker 1: about who inducted you, Um quest love from roots. That's cool. 1252 01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:44,320 Speaker 1: I thought that would It made a lot of sense 1253 01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:48,760 Speaker 1: because Philly guy, you know you know his father? Do 1254 01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:50,360 Speaker 1: you know his father was in a group called Lee 1255 01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,440 Speaker 1: Andrews and the Hearts. Okay, when I was a kid, 1256 01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,200 Speaker 1: I love Lee Andrews and the Hearts. They were a 1257 01:02:56,240 --> 01:03:02,080 Speaker 1: doo wop group. And just so amazing that his father 1258 01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,400 Speaker 1: was actually in a group that I idolized when I 1259 01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:11,000 Speaker 1: was a young kid. Wow, it's like everything comes back sleeping, 1260 01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 1: Like five things we've talked about that liked here come 1261 01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,800 Speaker 1: back around life. Someone If someone comes up to you says, hey, 1262 01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:20,840 Speaker 1: you have to and I'm sure you get it all 1263 01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:24,200 Speaker 1: the time, but it's like, give give me some advice 1264 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,600 Speaker 1: because you can give the best advice because you've done 1265 01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:30,600 Speaker 1: at all the loaves the super Highs. Don't suck up. 1266 01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:35,800 Speaker 1: But that's so wide at what though? Now? You know? 1267 01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,120 Speaker 1: I mean I can't give people advice. You know, be 1268 01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,320 Speaker 1: true to your school? How about that one? You know? 1269 01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,960 Speaker 1: And and by that I mean that symbolically, Um, be 1270 01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,280 Speaker 1: true to yourself, be find out who you are, find 1271 01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:53,560 Speaker 1: out what you have to offer, and and take that 1272 01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,320 Speaker 1: path and own it and and believe in it. Um, 1273 01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,800 Speaker 1: learn from your learn from the people you admire, the 1274 01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:05,520 Speaker 1: people you and emulate the here your heroes, and try 1275 01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:10,920 Speaker 1: to take what you love about them and somehow make 1276 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:14,040 Speaker 1: it your own and and see if something original can 1277 01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,160 Speaker 1: can come from it. That's the best advice I can give. 1278 01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,560 Speaker 1: Who did you meet throughout your career that as you're 1279 01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,120 Speaker 1: a big star, you meet maybe they may be younger 1280 01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,040 Speaker 1: than you are, just coming up and you were like, 1281 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,200 Speaker 1: holy crap, this person is so good and you can 1282 01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,880 Speaker 1: kind of predict their success. So many, so many I 1283 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:33,880 Speaker 1: do so don't even know where to begin. Who comes 1284 01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:38,040 Speaker 1: to mind first? One comes to mind, Um Brittany Howard, 1285 01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:45,880 Speaker 1: Jim James, uh Uh, Brett Eldridge, Um, Charlie Worsham. Charlie 1286 01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:50,640 Speaker 1: was in here last week, like like the next level. Yeah, 1287 01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,960 Speaker 1: he's so fantastic. Um, you know what about And like 1288 01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,520 Speaker 1: that sand Bush Jerry Douglas an artist that comes up 1289 01:04:58,520 --> 01:04:59,919 Speaker 1: when you're like you saw them, You're like, they're about 1290 01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:04,320 Speaker 1: to be a megastar before they were a megastar. Um 1291 01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,320 Speaker 1: in Excess. They opened for us, They opened a tour 1292 01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,160 Speaker 1: for us, and from the moment they started playing on 1293 01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,440 Speaker 1: that tour, I knew this was the last time they 1294 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,320 Speaker 1: were ever going to open for anybody. They were fantastic. 1295 01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:17,920 Speaker 1: It was an amazing tour with the two of us, 1296 01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,000 Speaker 1: But I knew that they were just they were just 1297 01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:26,000 Speaker 1: about to just take off. And what a tragic story. Huh. Yeah. 1298 01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,480 Speaker 1: We also we also had a band called Till Tuesday 1299 01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,560 Speaker 1: opened for us with a girl named Amy Man, and 1300 01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:34,880 Speaker 1: she was really talented, and I knew that she had 1301 01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:36,720 Speaker 1: a future. And you know, Amy Man is a great 1302 01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,440 Speaker 1: singer songwriter. She's out there still playing performing to this day. 1303 01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,560 Speaker 1: How is it that some bands make it the full? 1304 01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,000 Speaker 1: Like here you are, you're here to talk about you 1305 01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:48,920 Speaker 1: wrote a book, you were in the Hall of Fame, 1306 01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:52,160 Speaker 1: you live in life. You look healthy, everything seems good. 1307 01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,240 Speaker 1: But it's like either it's it's one way or the other. 1308 01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,600 Speaker 1: It's like you go down quick and in a flame, 1309 01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,600 Speaker 1: or you roll all the way through. This is not 1310 01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,600 Speaker 1: this is not a business for sissy's. Um. You've got 1311 01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,440 Speaker 1: to have a thick skin, you gotta want it, and 1312 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:10,640 Speaker 1: you've gotta work really hard. UM. I have a I 1313 01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,040 Speaker 1: have a very UM. I have a good work ethic. 1314 01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,360 Speaker 1: Maybe I got it from my parents from that generation. 1315 01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:19,160 Speaker 1: You know, growing up as a baby boomer, you know, 1316 01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:23,920 Speaker 1: right after World War Two. Um, it's I'm I'm of 1317 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:29,200 Speaker 1: that generation where it's just ingrained in me. Um and uh, 1318 01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,320 Speaker 1: you know, I just uh, I just hope, I you know, instilled. 1319 01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,400 Speaker 1: I think I think I've been able to instill that 1320 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,720 Speaker 1: in my son, who's just turning twenty one. And in 1321 01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:38,840 Speaker 1: a way, he's a he's a hard worker. He's not 1322 01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,000 Speaker 1: he's not of his millennial generation for some reason. Does 1323 01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:45,400 Speaker 1: he get what you have accomplished? Yeah, he does, and 1324 01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,040 Speaker 1: he specifically has gone in a completely different world and 1325 01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,800 Speaker 1: a different route. And I'm I'm really actually more proud 1326 01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,640 Speaker 1: of that fact than almost anything else, because he thought 1327 01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:56,840 Speaker 1: for himself and he realized that he didn't want to 1328 01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:59,120 Speaker 1: follow in his father's footsteps. He wanted to carve his 1329 01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:01,680 Speaker 1: own path. And I'm really actually very proud of that. 1330 01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,520 Speaker 1: So over the years, I mean, I assume you've met 1331 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,920 Speaker 1: just about anybody cool that you wanted to meet. But 1332 01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:13,200 Speaker 1: I'll just ask you some some names here. Yeah, Paul McCartney, him, sure, 1333 01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:17,520 Speaker 1: give me a word for these guys. Paul McCartney. He 1334 01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:22,200 Speaker 1: just like the most bubbly and kind of happy and 1335 01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:26,080 Speaker 1: like up kind of guy. Um, I'm a huge fan. 1336 01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,320 Speaker 1: I saw a set at Bonnaroo in two thirteen when 1337 01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:31,760 Speaker 1: we're there to do the super Jam, and he blew 1338 01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:33,600 Speaker 1: me away. He did a two and a half hour set. 1339 01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,480 Speaker 1: He was the band was amazing, the production was amazing. 1340 01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,840 Speaker 1: Everything was so good, the sound, the lights. Because when 1341 01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:42,880 Speaker 1: I see a show, I don't just listen to the 1342 01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,480 Speaker 1: music and watch the performer and check out what he's wearing. 1343 01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm looking at everything. I'm looking at the nuts and 1344 01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,440 Speaker 1: the bolts of the show. I'm looking at the lights, 1345 01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:53,040 Speaker 1: the production, the quality of the sound, the mix, the 1346 01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:57,640 Speaker 1: performance of the band, UM, the staging, uh, the pattern 1347 01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,080 Speaker 1: in between the songs. I'm looking at everything and in 1348 01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,200 Speaker 1: a kind of a you know, in an analytical way, 1349 01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:04,920 Speaker 1: but still enjoying it. His show was one of the 1350 01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:09,440 Speaker 1: most perfectly well crafted shows. But it didn't feel stiff. UM, 1351 01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:13,880 Speaker 1: that's my Paul McCartney, Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson came at 1352 01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,920 Speaker 1: backstage when we were playing UM Universal Lampith Theater in 1353 01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,400 Speaker 1: l a And he came back into our dressing room 1354 01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,559 Speaker 1: and before Billy Jean, and he said, I love to dance. 1355 01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:26,840 Speaker 1: I can't go for that in my bedroom in front 1356 01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,960 Speaker 1: of my mirror, and if you listen to Billy Jean, 1357 01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:32,960 Speaker 1: you can hear the same groove as I can't go 1358 01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,720 Speaker 1: for that, Um, but I have so much. I had 1359 01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,240 Speaker 1: so much respect for him. He was just so good 1360 01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,720 Speaker 1: and I felt sorry. I always felt sorry for him 1361 01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,040 Speaker 1: because I understood, you know, being a bit of a 1362 01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,640 Speaker 1: child performer, but not on the level of that he was. 1363 01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:47,840 Speaker 1: He was a superstar from the time he was six 1364 01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:51,320 Speaker 1: years old. Um, you can't be a superstar from the 1365 01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:53,639 Speaker 1: time you're six years old and live in a normal world. 1366 01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:57,559 Speaker 1: Your world will never be normal. And the fact that 1367 01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:01,280 Speaker 1: he his life path took him where it took him 1368 01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:03,719 Speaker 1: to me in a way, I understand it. I don't. 1369 01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:08,639 Speaker 1: I don't condone it necessarily, but he couldn't possibly be normal, 1370 01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,080 Speaker 1: and it's a shame in a way. But at the 1371 01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:15,240 Speaker 1: same time, he was a supremely talented person. Freddie Mercury 1372 01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,840 Speaker 1: I never met him. I saw his show at the 1373 01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:21,320 Speaker 1: Beacon Theater. I saw Queen play at the Beacon Theater 1374 01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:23,680 Speaker 1: in New York one time, and I said, for some 1375 01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,040 Speaker 1: crazy reason, I was sitting in the front row and 1376 01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,639 Speaker 1: that was a huge mistake. They were so freaking aloud. 1377 01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:31,920 Speaker 1: I actually couldn't stand it. I had to leave and 1378 01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:33,599 Speaker 1: go into the back and watch it from the back. 1379 01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:37,160 Speaker 1: On the more contemporary guys, how about a guy like 1380 01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:39,280 Speaker 1: John Mayer. Have you met John at all? I met him. 1381 01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:41,519 Speaker 1: I met him standing out in front of the Beverly 1382 01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:45,080 Speaker 1: Hills Hotel. Um. Yeah, he seems really cool guy. Um. 1383 01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,000 Speaker 1: We didn't talk very much. It was just like kind 1384 01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:48,760 Speaker 1: of a quick high and he was on his way. 1385 01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:50,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make sure I'm missing in my notes, John, 1386 01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:53,799 Speaker 1: because I made a lot of notes. Let's say, already 1387 01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,360 Speaker 1: talked to him and all of that, and most of 1388 01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,120 Speaker 1: stuff I knew from my mind. But if you leave 1389 01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,080 Speaker 1: here and I'm like, God didn't, that's gonna I'm gonna 1390 01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:03,960 Speaker 1: punch myself right in the all right, Uh, my day. 1391 01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,360 Speaker 1: Anything you want? As John, we are going back on 1392 01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:09,120 Speaker 1: tour this summer. What song is still fun for you 1393 01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:11,760 Speaker 1: to play? You know what? I'll tell you what. I know. 1394 01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,320 Speaker 1: This is gonna sound stupid, but all of them. Uh, 1395 01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,080 Speaker 1: we don't play any songs we don't like, and we 1396 01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:19,600 Speaker 1: have we are really fortunate. We have a lot of 1397 01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,600 Speaker 1: hits and we in a way it's kind of a 1398 01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:25,519 Speaker 1: ball and chain in the best possible way. It's like 1399 01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,720 Speaker 1: we're a prisoner of our own success in terms of 1400 01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:32,600 Speaker 1: I feel like, I I know I have a professional 1401 01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,360 Speaker 1: responsibility to play those hits for the people who come 1402 01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:37,559 Speaker 1: to see us. But at the same time, we have 1403 01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:40,000 Speaker 1: four hundred songs and some of them are really cool, 1404 01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:42,559 Speaker 1: and we've got deep album tracks that are so cool, 1405 01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:46,920 Speaker 1: but we really almost can't fit them into the set um. 1406 01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:49,559 Speaker 1: But you know what, it's a really amazing problem to have. 1407 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,880 Speaker 1: And so I honestly, God, if a song starts feelings 1408 01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:55,160 Speaker 1: a little stale will drop it. Maybe we're many years 1409 01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:57,559 Speaker 1: we we had we never played Private Eyes for about 1410 01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,760 Speaker 1: five years, and we sometimes drop We're gonna add a 1411 01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,040 Speaker 1: few songs on this this tour that we're going out 1412 01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:06,200 Speaker 1: with this summer with Tears for Fears, and Tears Fears 1413 01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:08,719 Speaker 1: are great. You know, they've got a great catalog of hits, 1414 01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,040 Speaker 1: and I think it's gonna be a really amazing show. 1415 01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,280 Speaker 1: Do you ever punched on the faith? We've never had 1416 01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,439 Speaker 1: a fight, like, no, no, you ever never punched in 1417 01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:20,439 Speaker 1: the face, never had a fight. We've had disagreements and 1418 01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:23,479 Speaker 1: we kind of just walk away. We walk away and 1419 01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:25,800 Speaker 1: let it settle. Out and then we figure out a 1420 01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:29,040 Speaker 1: way of working it out. Who's your most famous personal 1421 01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:33,040 Speaker 1: close friend do you would call once a month? Jim Lauderdale, 1422 01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:42,120 Speaker 1: Jim Lauderdale, M from Nashville. Who's your most famous friend 1423 01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,000 Speaker 1: that people would like to be like, Oh that's cool, 1424 01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:50,880 Speaker 1: Jim Lauderdale. Darryl Hall. Now you just messed with with John. Really, 1425 01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:53,880 Speaker 1: he's probably my closest personal friend that I actually talked 1426 01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,439 Speaker 1: to regular. Do you guys have conversations? Can you guys 1427 01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:58,439 Speaker 1: go to dinner and just hang out and chat even 1428 01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:00,800 Speaker 1: after only only when we're on tour. Yeah, one one 1429 01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,439 Speaker 1: on tour we do all the time. Yeah. Because you 1430 01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:06,519 Speaker 1: don't hate each other. I mean, so many groups we 1431 01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:09,040 Speaker 1: don't hate each other. We we just we we know. 1432 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,920 Speaker 1: It's like brothers. I mean we met, it's seventeen years old, 1433 01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:16,120 Speaker 1: so we grew up together. We experienced the same thing 1434 01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:21,920 Speaker 1: from our teenage days through twenties, thirtifties, sixties, so we 1435 01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,080 Speaker 1: we know each other so well, we know each other's 1436 01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:27,360 Speaker 1: families so well. It's like we don't even have to talk. 1437 01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:29,840 Speaker 1: We never really need to talk, and we can get 1438 01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:32,400 Speaker 1: together and it's like as if time stopped. We just 1439 01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:35,080 Speaker 1: carry on right where we left off. It's it's the 1440 01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:39,120 Speaker 1: weirdest thing. There's a book it's called Change of Seasons 1441 01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:43,479 Speaker 1: by John Oates and it comes out in March March, 1442 01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:45,439 Speaker 1: and you can pre order it if it's before Mary 1443 01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:48,519 Speaker 1: or I suggest you buy it. And there's there's a 1444 01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:50,559 Speaker 1: cover and he's on it and he's holding a guitar. 1445 01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,880 Speaker 1: He can't miss it. And let me read some of 1446 01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:57,320 Speaker 1: the reviews here. Now this is your quote. Never mind, 1447 01:12:57,360 --> 01:12:58,599 Speaker 1: I was gonna read them in the back of the boat, 1448 01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:02,760 Speaker 1: but you should read my reviews. Is you're pretty good? Uh, 1449 01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:05,880 Speaker 1: really great book. Thank you so much. I appreciate you 1450 01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,439 Speaker 1: for the music. Geek. Great book and for first I've 1451 01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,679 Speaker 1: said like eight times, but for me, it's just really cool. 1452 01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:13,840 Speaker 1: It's man, how many times do you get a rock 1453 01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:15,519 Speaker 1: and roll Hall of Famer in your house? Let me 1454 01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,040 Speaker 1: tell you just one the house. You've got a view, 1455 01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:20,200 Speaker 1: thought a cool view. It's a view I've never seen 1456 01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:22,720 Speaker 1: him Nashville. I love it. Yeah, pretty cool man. Well, 1457 01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:24,519 Speaker 1: thank you very much, thanks for having me. I hope 1458 01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,439 Speaker 1: everybody gets the book. And uh, you know, when you 1459 01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,360 Speaker 1: write another one, we'll come back and do that. You know. 1460 01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,760 Speaker 1: I got to write the second volume about my Nashville experience. Yeah, 1461 01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:34,640 Speaker 1: what you live? Why do you live? We're out of 1462 01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,679 Speaker 1: time here, but give me why do you live Nashville? Now? 1463 01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:39,160 Speaker 1: Come on? It's the only place where there's music. It 1464 01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:41,439 Speaker 1: is really you know, you're right. It is the only 1465 01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:44,000 Speaker 1: place where's music. And when I when I started making 1466 01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:45,840 Speaker 1: solo albums and I realized that I was going to 1467 01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:49,960 Speaker 1: go back to my earliest influences, which my folk influences, 1468 01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:51,920 Speaker 1: I knew this was the place that where I could 1469 01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:54,720 Speaker 1: realize that, and that's why I came in. It's been 1470 01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:58,920 Speaker 1: a real pleasure. Man, Did you enjoy it? I've got 1471 01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,519 Speaker 1: an interview in mind. Come on, you bet you just 1472 01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,360 Speaker 1: want to hear that, right, And I'm telling you that's 1473 01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:07,720 Speaker 1: the truth. You know you're good man. Just put me in. 1474 01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:09,400 Speaker 1: You know you got me in this chair man. I 1475 01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:12,479 Speaker 1: was like, okay, now we're gonna ease into this league. 1476 01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:15,040 Speaker 1: I get to talk to everybody. And I was most nervous. 1477 01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:16,920 Speaker 1: And and I've had you on my radio show before, 1478 01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,559 Speaker 1: but that's different. That's like, let's do eight minutes. It's 1479 01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:22,960 Speaker 1: bam bam babad. But I was I was nervous about 1480 01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:26,680 Speaker 1: this because you have such a story to tell, and 1481 01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,719 Speaker 1: I didn't want to and I'll go I'll kick myself 1482 01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,439 Speaker 1: later for not asking if your questions. I was like, 1483 01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:34,639 Speaker 1: how often do I get to sit for an hour 1484 01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:38,400 Speaker 1: and talk? John Hoats say, well, you know what, if 1485 01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:39,760 Speaker 1: you want to have me back, we got more to 1486 01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:41,439 Speaker 1: talk about, or I'll just come to your house. We'll 1487 01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:45,280 Speaker 1: just jack all right, Thank you guys for hanging out. 1488 01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,439 Speaker 1: John notes change of seasons pre order on Amazon Now 1489 01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,320 Speaker 1: to be out late March. Mary, So thanks John, thank 1490 01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:56,000 Speaker 1: you all right. Episode I Have so forty two is 1491 01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:57,320 Speaker 1: over all right, Thank you guys,