Speaker 1: Quest Left Show is a production of iHeart Radio. All Right,
Speaker 1: we're gonna anyway, lads, moment. Wait, this is starting off
Speaker 1: the way that I didn't want it to start off. Okay,
Speaker 1: we gonna breathe. All right, listen, Welcome to the Quest
Speaker 1: Love Show. So, as you know, I have personally spent
Speaker 1: the greater part of this decade buried in a lot
Speaker 1: of metaphysical books and self help books. I've said it
Speaker 1: over and over again, YadA, YadA, YadA, but at some
Speaker 1: point the brain actually needs a break. And those few
Speaker 1: times that I've taken a break and went left, and
Speaker 1: you know, my go to thing has always been music memoirs,
Speaker 1: and me picking up a particular music memoir also conveniently
Speaker 1: lined up with one of my very first game nights
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, where are pal in front of the
Speaker 1: show jazz masifhas Jones. She basically rolled in with today's
Speaker 1: guests as her plus one, and I remember the rapid
Speaker 1: timing of gasps and that went around the room when
Speaker 1: our guests entered game night, and I will say that
Speaker 1: probably we hit it off famously. So cut to a
Speaker 1: week later, I'm bookshopping in the airport and boom, there
Speaker 1: she is on the shelf, staring back at me on
Speaker 1: her cover, and I thought, Okay, let me see what
Speaker 1: the journey has been for our guest, because I really
Speaker 1: haven't kept up since you know, her days of when
Speaker 1: I first seen her on TRL yesteryear and you know,
Speaker 1: in the early arts and whatnot. I got to say
Speaker 1: twenty years plus, you know, the resume that she's not
Speaker 1: going to brag about being the artist with the I
Speaker 1: guess the youngest artist with a number one single. She's
Speaker 1: gone multi platinum, a Grammy of course for say so,
Speaker 1: and not to mention Setina mullin Rouge on Broadway and
Speaker 1: h yeah, an instant New York Times bestseller memoir called
Speaker 1: Over the Influence and which not only I read as
Speaker 1: a book, but read with the companion audiobook, and which
Speaker 1: to me that was the game changer of it all,
Speaker 1: Like I basically had to read the book twice. And
Speaker 1: timing has really never worked before in the stars have
Speaker 1: aligned in which our guests has finally come to the show,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna pretend we're not friends in real life.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep this really professional. Jojo, Welcome to the Quest.
Speaker 2: Listen, sare I can't.
Speaker 1: Believe how you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm tickled to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: I'm honestly honored.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm going to try to keep this professional.
Speaker 2: Why well, okay, however you have, however you want to
Speaker 2: do it. I'm excited.
Speaker 1: You know, even though we've been doing this for I
Speaker 1: guess you can say this is ten years now in
Speaker 1: this particular format, I'm like shy of a year or
Speaker 1: a year plus, and so I'm still learning, still reading
Speaker 1: the comments. Yes, I'm still learning how to navigate this
Speaker 1: as a solo artist. You know, I'm still on off
Speaker 1: the wall now I've gotten the thrill of you. So
Speaker 1: the thing is is that since we first met and
Speaker 1: bonded at game night, I thought that I would do
Speaker 1: something a little bit different than I normally do, like
Speaker 1: I try to do it chronologically, but really I want
Speaker 1: everyone out there to get your book and read it themselves.
Speaker 1: And I really like second to Mariah's book, like her audio,
Speaker 1: a book like for me to hear the story to
Speaker 1: come from the person makes all the difference in the world.
Speaker 2: When you told me that you were reading my book,
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. And the way in which you
Speaker 2: you know, broke things down for me. You really paid attention.
Speaker 2: You gave me a whole new lease on life about
Speaker 2: this thing that I had done that I just thought
Speaker 2: was kind of just in the ethery.
Speaker 1: I just thought, like a book out there.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I just you never know, And so
Speaker 2: just thank you.
Speaker 1: For I admire people that with a journey and the
Speaker 1: story to tell, and so and more than that, it's
Speaker 1: not only a journey, but I mean, you drop a
Speaker 1: lot of gems in there. You know, you're not shy
Speaker 1: about your shortcomings and a lot of them where you
Speaker 1: might have failed. So I mean, the human thing is happening.
Speaker 1: And plus I think at the time I was on
Speaker 1: my same journey of if we want to call it
Speaker 1: the righteous path, and so yeah, I really admired it.
Speaker 1: And it's weird for me to come in backwards. I
Speaker 1: had had to start with a memoir and then work
Speaker 1: my wa backwards to your music, whereas everyone got to
Speaker 1: know you first and did the opposite.
Speaker 2: Well, you were busy, so I get it.
Speaker 1: Yes, we were busy, but we're here now. So what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do is I'm going to ask you
Speaker 1: some rapid fire questions that are mixed up that probably
Speaker 1: you haven't been asked before, because I also want to
Speaker 1: know like the human side of you. So I'm basically
Speaker 1: encouraging people out there to just read the memoir to
Speaker 1: get the soup to nuts story of your life. But yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot I want to ask you. So number one,
Speaker 1: what is your coffee order?
Speaker 2: My coffee order is a I'm in milk cappuccino, A simple,
Speaker 2: no sweetener, blah blah blah. I want a local coffee shop.
Speaker 1: Okay, you support mom and plops, I've got reference. I
Speaker 1: got you. Okay, But sometimes when you're middle of nowhere
Speaker 1: in at.
Speaker 2: The airport, I will get a quartado. I think some
Speaker 2: night quartads and just like just a little bit of
Speaker 2: likes espresso with a little milk, I think is kind
Speaker 2: of what it is, or quartado.
Speaker 1: I think the reason why I'm shotings sufferable. I'm not
Speaker 1: the coffee person that I should be because it's just
Speaker 1: too intimidating to know all those flavors and whatnot. And
Speaker 1: it is moclados and babados and there's no more small
Speaker 1: medium and exactly it's just really intimidating to me. So
Speaker 1: I just responded by not having a coffee preference.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and there's no reason you should. My first
Speaker 2: therapist said, don't should all over yourself.
Speaker 1: Okay, agree with that question Number two, what is your
Speaker 1: greatest fear when you start a new project.
Speaker 2: I think we've talked a lot about this.
Speaker 1: Just we don't know each other, Okay, we're strangers.
Speaker 2: My greatest fear when starting a new project is that
Speaker 2: I won't be able to produce what the feeling that
Speaker 2: I want to create.
Speaker 1: So what's inside here has a hard time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I won't be able to manifest that because
Speaker 2: also I am a communal creator. You know, I'm not
Speaker 2: a producer. I really enjoyed the co writing process, but
Speaker 2: I also love coming with my ideas and my lyrics
Speaker 2: and melodies and all that. But I worry that I
Speaker 2: won't be able to communicate what it is that is
Speaker 2: the desire of my heart, if that makes sense, Okay.
Speaker 1: I believe based on how I've been following you post
Speaker 1: pandemic and whatnot on social media, there's one thing I
Speaker 1: always wanted to know about. So I'm a communal person also,
Speaker 1: but ours is mostly the jam session on stage. Can
Speaker 1: you walk me through the process of a typical writer's camp.
Speaker 1: I've seen you do these things where you will gather
Speaker 1: with what looks to be like twenty maybe twenty five people.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's only eleven people in this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like twenty five, Well it looks a lot, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like this is a process where you just
Speaker 1: gather like three over here. Yes, all right, so walk
Speaker 1: me through that process.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what you're speaking to is like a writer
Speaker 2: a camp for a project. I've actually I've been fortunate
Speaker 2: enough to be called into do When I was at
Speaker 2: a certain publishing company, they would like have they rented
Speaker 2: out a place in France and they put all of
Speaker 2: us in a castle. It was crazy. They do these
Speaker 2: destination things where they'll pair off an artist, a co writer,
Speaker 2: a producer. Three I find to be a good number,
Speaker 2: and three or four. Sometimes they'll put you in a room.
Speaker 2: You'll have a computer and interface and you know, keyboard
Speaker 2: or guitar or whatever, and you'll re'll write that way.
Speaker 2: And it could start with me saying I have this
Speaker 2: idea for a hook, or I have this concept, or
Speaker 2: I'd like to make a song that sounds like this,
Speaker 2: but with this type of percussive difference in the song
Speaker 2: or whatever, or sometimes we all go in and it's like,
Speaker 2: what are we listening to? What are we feeling? It
Speaker 2: could start from a conversation and then oftentimes if there
Speaker 2: isn't magic within the first hour or two, you'll go
Speaker 2: to the next idea. Because I'm sure you've read Rick
Speaker 2: Rubin's book and I love it. You want to try
Speaker 2: to follow that magic and that impulse and things like that.
Speaker 2: So camps can go in different ways. I've done it
Speaker 2: for my album before. Recently, I got some of my
Speaker 2: favorite creatives in a room together in Joshua Tree. That
Speaker 2: was about five of us. Thorow, Nephew Fiemster, Tommy Parker,
Speaker 2: Niki Flores, and David who works with neph And we
Speaker 2: just stayed up all night and made things in different
Speaker 2: rooms and I bopped around and we finished some ideas.
Speaker 2: And it can happen like that. I don't know if
Speaker 2: that makes sense.
Speaker 1: No, No, I can see it. Yeah, So when's the
Speaker 1: last time that, like, do you trust the process of
Speaker 1: just you and one creator? I like that. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to see this through.
Speaker 2: It's my preference. Actually, sometimes I can get overwhelmed. I
Speaker 2: think the older I get, the more I'm better one
Speaker 2: on one and the more I do trust myself and
Speaker 2: I trust my instincts, And that's been a long time
Speaker 2: of honing that, getting sensitive to that inner knowing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how much of your soul do you want to
Speaker 1: expose to your collaborators? Like if songwriting is the cathartic
Speaker 1: killing process that songwriters say it is, like, there's got
Speaker 1: to be a point where at least, like the pre
Speaker 1: talk is where you talk about where your life has been,
Speaker 1: like Okay, well I got a divorce last year and
Speaker 1: I had to bury my animal, or you know, like
Speaker 1: whatever it is feeling inside. Is there even space for
Speaker 1: you to just lay out where you are in life
Speaker 1: so that the person knows what they're working with.
Speaker 2: I think it's cool, but I also think that using
Speaker 2: it as a therapy session is not always the most
Speaker 2: productive thing. It can kind of get in the way
Speaker 2: sometimes of what the actual objective is. Personally, I think
Speaker 2: that there's a time for therapy and this is just
Speaker 2: I feel right now. Maybe I'll feel different the next
Speaker 2: time we speak about this, but right now, I think
Speaker 2: that it can be a little self indulgent sometimes to
Speaker 2: go and dump trauma dump in a session and there's
Speaker 2: a time and a place for that, and I've done
Speaker 2: that so many times over the years, and then I
Speaker 2: end up writing songs that are about depression or about
Speaker 2: feeling like I don't know who I am or I
Speaker 2: don't know and you know what, I actually don't want
Speaker 2: to put that out in the world. That's actually not
Speaker 2: what I want my contribution to be right now, do
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? I want to act as
Speaker 2: if I want to project another truth within me, which
Speaker 2: is love and strength and resonance and empowerment and creativity
Speaker 2: and connection and all those things. So I think sometimes
Speaker 2: we need to come in and at least for me
Speaker 2: and fortify or make a decision about like what it
Speaker 2: is that we want to do, and we can get
Speaker 2: to the other stuff later. I think the after session
Speaker 2: download is sometimes a good thing too, But I like
Speaker 2: to be productive in a session and then let's go
Speaker 2: have a debrief O for a glass of wine.
Speaker 1: After How long is it typically before you know we
Speaker 1: got a song here? Ooh?
Speaker 2: I think that by the end of the session, if
Speaker 2: you've written and laid a first reference of that song,
Speaker 2: there's a song in you know that I'm working on
Speaker 2: in my new project. That I knew that day. I
Speaker 2: was like, this is special, this is going to set
Speaker 2: the tone for this new project. But then it really
Speaker 2: is the opening it up to other people too. Does
Speaker 2: it resonate in the way that it feels to the creatives,
Speaker 2: because that is an important part of it. Otherwise I'll
Speaker 2: just be making stuff for myself. But I want to connect.
Speaker 2: That's the desire of my heart is to connect with
Speaker 2: other people, whether it's one on one or whether it's
Speaker 2: you know, it's not that I want to pander or
Speaker 2: cater to what people think I should be doing, but
Speaker 2: I want it to resonate. So as I start opening
Speaker 2: it up to other people, is it eliciting a stank face?
Speaker 2: Is there a visceral reaction? Is there something that they
Speaker 2: walk away from it with? So that takes time to know.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: Quincy Jones basically said that his number one rule when
Speaker 1: working on both Off the Wall and Thriller in Bad
Speaker 1: was those three records that if he doesn't get goosebumps
Speaker 1: at one point, he'll throw it in the lamp, like
Speaker 1: it'll just go Are you that person where like the
Speaker 1: song has to hit you somewhere in your chakra where
Speaker 1: it's like hm, or is it no? Because I know
Speaker 1: some people that are just I know one songwriter is
Speaker 1: just a twenty minute person. He overthinks it, then the
Speaker 1: magic's going, so twenty minutes. It's like I stop, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's the song.
Speaker 2: Anything Quincy says is a yes for me. I'm listening
Speaker 2: and I want to, you know, but everybody's process is different, right,
Speaker 2: But you know, I kneel at the altar of what
Speaker 2: Quincy does.
Speaker 3: I mean?
Speaker 2: So I am looking for some type of visceral reaction
Speaker 2: at this point in my life because I've done so
Speaker 2: much over the year years that has not felt in alignment,
Speaker 2: not really.
Speaker 1: Felt true authentically you, and not really.
Speaker 2: Felt authentically me. And I'm not saying that it needs
Speaker 2: to be like this is exactly where I am blah
Speaker 2: blah blah, but it has to feel true, it has
Speaker 2: to feel like and I'm not saying I've done that
Speaker 2: my whole career, but there's been pockets where I've compromised.
Speaker 1: So where you are right now from one to ten,
Speaker 1: and I know this is like you're relearning yourself, the
Speaker 1: adult version of you, and you break in the chains
Speaker 1: of like the studio system and all those things that
Speaker 1: held you bat before. So from one to ten, where
Speaker 1: do you feel you are on the number scale?
Speaker 2: As far as life got a number scale, you know.
Speaker 1: The ten representing you know your absolute destination point of
Speaker 1: this is where I am now and planning my flag
Speaker 1: or is it still like you're still trying to figure out,
Speaker 1: like what your favorite sound patches are if I like
Speaker 1: singing slow songs.
Speaker 2: Or I think I am a process of discovery. I'm
Speaker 2: in a season of trying things on, but not in
Speaker 2: the same way that I was trying them on in
Speaker 2: my twenties. I think my thirties have really felt like
Speaker 2: such a gift for making it through my uncomfortable, weird, messy,
Speaker 2: dangerous twenties, like even spiritually dangerous, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Or not not spiritual, but just like emotionally, like I
Speaker 2: was not a safe place for myself or others. And
Speaker 2: I feel like you're right about that in the book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I wasn't like it's weird meeting you at
Speaker 1: because I see it a fascination like I can't fathom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I was just like I was just
Speaker 2: really good for like just getting too drunk and just
Speaker 2: doing some weird shit, you know. What I mean, I
Speaker 2: really was, so I think now what you like, I'm
Speaker 2: so glad. I'm so glad we didn't know each other
Speaker 2: then it wasn't it wasn't the best. But I think
Speaker 2: that as far as my artistry, I really feel really
Speaker 2: to being at a place that I want to like
Speaker 2: really stay at and being like this is who I
Speaker 2: am and where I want to stay for quite a while.
Speaker 2: So I feel really close. I don't want to give
Speaker 2: it a number because seven is such a boring number.
Speaker 2: But I did not say that. No, I'm close. I'm close,
Speaker 2: And my intention with this, with a project that I'm
Speaker 2: making now is it could be the last thing that
Speaker 2: I make, you know, and then I just go have
Speaker 2: some babies and go f off. But who knows.
Speaker 4: I could never really Okay, say goodbye?
Speaker 1: What is the most air quote? DIVA request on your
Speaker 1: hospitality rider?
Speaker 2: Okay, you guys asked me if I wanted snacks here?
Speaker 2: And I thought it was like a cute thing because
Speaker 2: I thought you were like, I thought maybe you did
Speaker 2: that with your guests. You're like, what weird snacks do
Speaker 2: you get? So I asked for some weird snacks? I
Speaker 2: was like, could I have some crispy red grapes. Could
Speaker 2: I have a diet coke? Could I have an evyon?
Speaker 2: Could have a charcooterie board. Y'all did it? Y'all did it,
Speaker 2: but I didn't. I really literally didn't need anything.
Speaker 1: Shit is my show, and I didn know that we
Speaker 1: could have a rider. Cousin, Jake, Cousin really out, you
Speaker 1: were just like sharing your water with me, like you
Speaker 1: want some water.
Speaker 2: Mire You know, you are so generous though, especially with
Speaker 2: your food offerings and everything, so I thought that that
Speaker 2: was a part of the thing. So anyway, my weirdest
Speaker 2: request is that I really do like I do like
Speaker 2: really minerally water, So I ask for minerally water.
Speaker 1: Well mostly I asked that because especially at the tonight show,
Speaker 1: m M, I see the weirdest of riders when it
Speaker 1: comes to like serious singers. Okay, I've seen the weirdest thing.
Speaker 1: One particular soul singer wanted onions, actual red onions, honey
Speaker 1: garlic clothes like some people like they made. Shaka Khan's
Speaker 1: ride is real, like as far as like the right.
Speaker 2: Well, she's like very connected to the earth, a little witchy.
Speaker 2: She's kind of making potions and she wants.
Speaker 1: I feel like she's back there, like trouble, Like, what
Speaker 1: is your post like a cauldron of Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just like some manuka honey. I'll just take some
Speaker 2: minuka honey.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very anti microbial healing. You can put it
Speaker 2: on your face after you wash up your makeup.
Speaker 1: I've seen that before Tarika. When he's on stage. One
Speaker 1: of the funniest things I ever seen in my life is,
Speaker 1: you know, he'll because like his voice is his most
Speaker 1: important instrument, and you know he'll have like achanation and
Speaker 1: like all these sprays and whatnot. But also there are
Speaker 1: sprays that are like deodorant. Sprays are also in the
Speaker 1: same bottle hand sanitized. Our new tech version put the
Speaker 1: deodor in one stage and oh it was like we
Speaker 1: stopped this.
Speaker 2: It's hard to recover from.
Speaker 1: So that's when I became more Yeah, I became more
Speaker 1: aware of Yeah.
Speaker 2: I travel with like a singer pouch though, so I
Speaker 2: have my my things in it, like my vocal straws
Speaker 2: and like singer sprays. Yeah, so we often like phone
Speaker 2: eate through straws to kind of loosen up and you
Speaker 2: can warm up that way, just like a little straw
Speaker 2: that you can wear around your neck. It looks like
Speaker 2: like a coke straw or something like. Someone has been like, oh,
Speaker 2: is that a party thing? I'm like no, I'm a singer.
Speaker 1: I never knew this existed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just to kind of like it's nice.
Speaker 1: Okay, again, this is all super random, so it's like
Speaker 1: non sequitary. What is the most beautiful video? This is
Speaker 1: a question I never asked before any artists. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: what's the most beautiful video that you've ever seen? Music video?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: God, the way my memory is set up not right.
Speaker 2: But I just want to call out something that I
Speaker 2: just recently saw that Jacob Collier did And he's a
Speaker 2: dear friend and one of my favorite artists, and he
Speaker 2: did a video for this song that is also a
Speaker 2: meditation and he's like flowed. It's a dream that many
Speaker 2: of us have had, just flying, you know, And he
Speaker 2: filmed it overseas and somehow they were able to like
Speaker 2: maybe he was on a string or something. They you know,
Speaker 2: got rid of the string. He's flying through the flying yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's it was really touching because I had a
Speaker 2: you know, reoccurring dream. I can't I hope to have
Speaker 2: this dream again. A flying yeah, what is.
Speaker 1: Your reoccurring theme all in your dreams?
Speaker 2: Lately it's been deep and I've been like bringing bringing
Speaker 2: it to my therapists and been like, what's the tea here?
Speaker 2: What's going on?
Speaker 1: What's the object that's always in your dream?
Speaker 2: Sharks? Lately about sharks, and you know what it is,
Speaker 2: it's been mermaid. Yeah, I'm a mermaid. I identify as
Speaker 2: a mermaid. Okay, No, I think the past couple dreams
Speaker 2: have been deep ocean and fear of what's underneath. So
Speaker 2: that's clearly my subconscious being like come hither, come get
Speaker 2: to know me more. Else you're going to be afraid
Speaker 2: of your you know, sea creatures coming and getting you
Speaker 2: or whatever. So I can't say that I have like
Speaker 2: a I used to have dreams of mummies like coming
Speaker 2: up from the you know, depths and coming after me
Speaker 2: and stuff, And most recently I had a zombie dream
Speaker 2: which is similar. So I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1: Wow, your dreams are cool, like my dreams are dumb?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, right, until thirty five, I was always about
Speaker 1: to fail chemistry class. Really the way way past graduation.
Speaker 1: I would wake up of like a final and I'm
Speaker 1: like a mirror, you're thirty two years old, like you're
Speaker 1: out of high school. But in my dream for the longest,
Speaker 1: I was always about to fail a class or something.
Speaker 2: I was about to not graduate in my dream for
Speaker 2: a very long time because that was a like reality
Speaker 2: because I was homeschooled when I was on the road
Speaker 2: for a long time. So through my twenties, I would
Speaker 2: wake up in a panic and be like, you're not
Speaker 2: going to graduate, and it was really scary, like I
Speaker 2: just was, you know, not turning something in or right.
Speaker 1: So I feel that what irrational fear routinely scares you
Speaker 1: to this day. The part two that is also what
Speaker 1: actual fear. There's an irrational fear like you dying by
Speaker 1: Jello or I mean just like a childhood fear that
Speaker 1: you've you know, people imagine monsters, or you know, a
Speaker 1: fear of sliding boards. I had a manager who's definitely
Speaker 1: afraid of Select popsicle sticks. Huh yeah, like to the
Speaker 1: point where I offered her five thousand dollars cash just
Speaker 1: to hold Select popsicle sticks and she couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: And this is my DJ manager. I mean, you've never
Speaker 1: seen the clips on Mari Polvich with the woman's afraid
Speaker 1: of pickles. What you never seen this? No, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: you're of millennial YouTube.
Speaker 2: Yes, scared of pickles. No, I've seen my strange addiction
Speaker 2: where she's like eating the couch and stuff.
Speaker 1: But that's yeah, well that's dark. Yes, I remember that.
Speaker 1: But if you google Mari and they do it just
Speaker 1: like Jaws, like.
Speaker 5: Came like hold the thing and she sees it coming
Speaker 5: and she runs out in the streets and then the
Speaker 5: camera starts chasing her in the streets with the pickles, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that wouldn't fly today. That's unkind Google.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's but like, what is there a fear
Speaker 1: that you have that's.
Speaker 2: A little irrational?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, you know what this is not.
Speaker 2: I mean, it could happen and it's scary, but of
Speaker 2: getting a paper cut in my on my eyeball, like
Speaker 2: it's unlikely.
Speaker 1: Fantasize paper cuts really not fit well when you think
Speaker 1: of something a lot that's also fantasizing.
Speaker 2: True, I guess I feel I.
Speaker 1: Often dream of like shards of glass. I hate walking
Speaker 1: the barefoot in my kitchen because I always imagine that
Speaker 1: shards of glass are going to cut.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's that little cut. Yeah, similar, but for you,
Speaker 2: it's it's a paper cut in the eyeball. That's oh
Speaker 2: I feel that, yeah exactly. So that's kind of irrational
Speaker 2: because it's just like how that happened. But I can
Speaker 2: feel it right now.
Speaker 1: I can just feel like, oh, yeah, I feel it
Speaker 1: with you. What's your real I'm afraid of Doberman's.
Speaker 2: They're beautiful, but I was bit in the face by
Speaker 2: one my nana's Doberman and I see them on this
Speaker 2: street and I'm like, that's a beautiful bitch. But oh
Speaker 2: my god, like.
Speaker 1: I think you're you're you're a dog mom.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a.
Speaker 2: Dog mom, but she's she's a much she's a rescue
Speaker 2: And yeah, Doberman's are scary to me. You know, sharks
Speaker 2: deep ocean.
Speaker 1: Then as a Boston thing, Like how much of your
Speaker 1: life is spent in the ocean?
Speaker 2: Not not much these days. Like I'm I would be
Speaker 2: afraid to like be on a big boat and you know,
Speaker 2: say you're you're in the middle of the a nice
Speaker 2: ocean somewhere and your anchors down and people, do you
Speaker 2: want to go snorkeling or whatever? Like I will go,
Speaker 2: but I'm terrified the whole time, you know, so trying
Speaker 2: to face those fears.
Speaker 1: But this previous weekend I just visited Martha's Vineyard Jaws
Speaker 1: and also went to the Ink well as well. So
Speaker 1: it was like my first time seeing it's way small
Speaker 1: than I thought it was, Like in my mind beaches
Speaker 1: are like the sprawling thing, like Jersey beaches.
Speaker 2: At least Massachusetts beaches are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a little bit of sand and then
Speaker 1: just water.
Speaker 2: Did you like it?
Speaker 1: It was the most surreal experience I've ever It was
Speaker 1: like walking in the Twilight Zone. Really. Everybody was so
Speaker 1: nice to me and like no, but in a weird
Speaker 1: like I'm running for president way okay. Everyone was really
Speaker 1: nice to me and like.
Speaker 2: It felt like the Truman Show or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or like the Stepford Housewives, like it's welcome, but
Speaker 1: it was like every other person like I just had
Speaker 1: to ease my way down there.
Speaker 2: So is I mean, people do regard you as like
Speaker 2: the mayor wherever you go?
Speaker 3: I think not.
Speaker 1: No, this way is it? I felt it strange?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just went to Nantucket for the first time.
Speaker 2: Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard are like two sides of the
Speaker 2: same coin or maybe not. People would probably disagree with that,
Speaker 2: but me growing up in Massachusetts, these were places that
Speaker 2: were aspirational to me because it was you know, it's
Speaker 2: expensive to go there, so I just went for the
Speaker 2: first time.
Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I champion your audiobooks much
Speaker 1: is your ability to blend in and out of character.
Speaker 1: Oh and you did a Boston accent that was kind
Speaker 1: of like Lois Griffith of Family Guide meets oh oh
Speaker 1: my God, Mayor Quimby of The Simpsons, Like it's I
Speaker 1: want to use it so bad.
Speaker 2: Please cast me in something where I can be a boss.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was going to say, did you ever have
Speaker 1: like you have an amazing speaking voice, especially for your
Speaker 1: your book. I believe that certain people have a channel
Speaker 1: place where when they speak, depending on where their chakra is, like,
Speaker 1: it's effective. Have you ever considered like voice acting work?
Speaker 2: Oh of totally yes. Wi mebe sending the auditions my
Speaker 2: way and I slang them out, and I'm you know,
Speaker 2: I really would love to do voice acting work. It's fun.
Speaker 2: It's fun. But particularly I have such an affinity toward
Speaker 2: the Boston accent, and I lost it at a young
Speaker 2: age because moved to La for a few months for
Speaker 2: like pilot season when I was eleven and and the
Speaker 2: kids teased me so bad. On that first day of
Speaker 2: school at you know in Lhobber Heights, I think is
Speaker 2: the place where we were near like Whittier. I was
Speaker 2: living there, and I said, excuse me, where's the bubbla?
Speaker 2: And they didn't know what that meant. There was another
Speaker 2: language to them, so it meant where's the water fountain?
Speaker 2: Excuse me, where's the bubbla? And I was like, and
Speaker 2: as the whole class erupted in laughter, I'm like, these kids,
Speaker 2: I'm never I'm gonna lose my accent. And I did.
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, how did you do that?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Oh this is self and prosed. It wasn't a coach.
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't a coach. I think that over the years,
Speaker 2: I just listened to the way other people spoke, and
Speaker 2: then I tried to speak more like that. Also, I
Speaker 2: could go in and out of it.
Speaker 1: You know, So come Thanksgiving or Christmas, whatever event that
Speaker 1: causes you to hang with family men, yeah, yeah, or
Speaker 1: go to Boston. Does it sneak in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does sneak in. I do coach switch Yeah.
Speaker 2: When I'm around my uncle Dale, it's you know, he's
Speaker 2: he sounds like he's speaking another language, you know, like
Speaker 2: another you know, another language, blah blah blah, and it's
Speaker 2: there's a lot of yeah, I think so, and there's
Speaker 2: a lot of uh and blah blah blah. It's interesting though,
Speaker 2: because the next generation. I think my generation might be
Speaker 2: the last to actually have regional accents. Because I listened
Speaker 2: to my cousins, who are the closest one in age
Speaker 2: to me is like maybe nine years younger. They don't
Speaker 2: have the regional Boston accent anymore anymore. It's I think
Speaker 2: it's because of the the Internet and you know, the
Speaker 2: interconnectedness of all things. But I find that really interesting
Speaker 2: from a anthropological standpoint of like, how did it become
Speaker 2: this way?
Speaker 1: We were losing cursive yeah, apparently losing reading as well.
Speaker 2: So anyway, I'm not saying I'm not like, I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it's a good or bad thing that we're losing
Speaker 2: a regional accent. I just think it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of the things that
Speaker 1: we held near and deer my fade into the past.
Speaker 1: I had a question once, you know, because people are
Speaker 1: always coming to me and talking about which kind of
Speaker 1: sort of taps into a post that you made about singing.
Speaker 1: I too have had thoughts, and the one thing that
Speaker 1: I've always wondered, I think the key component to the
Speaker 1: soul music that hits our soul is Unfortunately, I believe
Speaker 1: that there has to be a level of trauma that
Speaker 1: the singer has to go through that shapes that voice.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's maybe it's not.
Speaker 2: I mean you would know, and so I think you're.
Speaker 1: Well, I think for the most part, Like Okay, when
Speaker 1: I was teaching about James Brown in school, one of
Speaker 1: the students ask like, does he always have to scream
Speaker 1: so much like to another generation? The screaming almost came
Speaker 1: off as humorous, and I'd explain to them that, like,
Speaker 1: for every time I hear James Brown's scream, that's some
Speaker 1: sort of anger that would have come out on another person,
Speaker 1: but this is his release, his pressure valve release. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that screaming, the pain that you hear Retha Franklin and
Speaker 1: that beautiful pain. A lot of this generation doesn't have that,
Speaker 1: which is a great thing. But this also might mean
Speaker 1: that that level of soul singing might also be in
Speaker 1: our past. I mean, unless it's also you know, but
Speaker 1: as far as vocal turns, Okay, last night I saw
Speaker 1: a baby rose before him and yo, she sounds like
Speaker 1: in the most respectful, greatest way ever, Like her voice is,
Speaker 1: it's like one hundred years old. It's so haunting. It's
Speaker 1: hauntingly beautiful.
Speaker 2: I wish I got to see that.
Speaker 1: And then when the song's over, what's up?
Speaker 3: Yah?
Speaker 4: Know it?
Speaker 1: It was like, wait a minute, what the hell?
Speaker 6: Like the contrast, yeah, like I hear like all of
Speaker 6: our ancestors, and it's it's one of the most haunting
Speaker 6: things ever.
Speaker 1: Speaking of which number six, have you ever had to
Speaker 1: ghost someone?
Speaker 2: Have I had to go someone? I probably didn't have
Speaker 2: to do it, but I did it. Okay, I'm not
Speaker 2: proud of it, but I keep it moving.
Speaker 1: I really do.
Speaker 2: I really do. I've done it.
Speaker 1: It goes to such a harsh term, but like, how
Speaker 1: do you spring how do you spring clean? To protect
Speaker 1: your space? You don't have to get specific, but.
Speaker 2: Maybe I will. No, I don't know how do I
Speaker 2: protect my space? I mean, sometimes I'm not proud of this,
Speaker 2: but I definitely have done a slow fade, you know,
Speaker 2: in friendships, or professional relationships or whatever. But I try
Speaker 2: to be really communicative up until the point where it's
Speaker 2: just clear that it's not gonna be fruitful for us
Speaker 2: to be in relationship anymore. And I don't even mean romantically,
Speaker 2: because romantically I am. I think I'm a good communicator.
Speaker 2: But with other things, what are you thinking?
Speaker 1: I think romantic relationships are the easiest chase to But
Speaker 1: it's even as I asked you that question, I'm like,
Speaker 1: where for you to ask that question when you yourself
Speaker 1: are actively goes to maybe four people that you haven't told.
Speaker 1: I mean for me, it's easy because like, oh man,
Speaker 1: I'm so busy right now, or you know that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. But you know, I'm learning how to properly
Speaker 1: confront someone without I'm literally reading a book on how
Speaker 1: to get your truth out without being rude or what
Speaker 1: book is that? I don't even know. I literally got
Speaker 1: this two days ago. Yeah, follow up. This is how
Speaker 1: well I share all my books with you.
Speaker 2: So I'm listening to but we're not friends. I'm listening
Speaker 2: to the big leap that you didn't send me.
Speaker 1: But wait, are you serious? Yeah? When you said I didn't,
Speaker 1: I was shocked because I could say you hadn't sent it.
Speaker 2: You hadn't sent it, and then we talked about it,
Speaker 2: and then you did send it because Brianna brought it back.
Speaker 3: Up to me.
Speaker 1: But anyway, shout out to Brianna. We yes our friend. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The slow fade the ghost is a product of the
Speaker 2: time that we live in and you know, us not
Speaker 2: being as confrontational and wanting people to like us or
Speaker 2: wanting to keep a door open, things like that. And
Speaker 2: I do want to be on good terms with all
Speaker 2: people and stuff, but sometimes I want to also acknowledge
Speaker 2: that people are going through their process in their time,
Speaker 2: and I need to be protective of myself. I have
Speaker 2: done that with certain family members. I've never been able
Speaker 2: to do the full cut off, the tough love blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. I've tried to do that. I tried to
Speaker 2: do that with my father, you know, and I'm glad
Speaker 2: that I didn't do that to the extent that some
Speaker 2: people are encouraged to do that. Every case is different,
Speaker 2: but you know, it'll be ten years since my dad passed,
Speaker 2: and I'm grateful that I continue to have a relationship
Speaker 2: of some kind, do you know what I mean? Yes,
Speaker 2: So that's how I feel.
Speaker 1: Okay, your bed, are you let me ask a question
Speaker 1: first your bed, Joe, Joe. Are you a out of
Speaker 1: bed immediately and onto your day or are you a
Speaker 1: must have bed made before my day starts. Person.
Speaker 2: I like to make the bed like after I do
Speaker 2: my things like drink my glass of water, brush my teeth,
Speaker 2: you know, walk a gape, do things like take a shower.
Speaker 2: I'll make my bed before I go. But I don't
Speaker 2: have a particular order of operations.
Speaker 1: I'm people that can.
Speaker 2: I'm not OCD.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I like things nice. I like to do things in
Speaker 2: a certain way that makes me feel nice. But I
Speaker 2: have mixibility. I do snooze a bit. My current ring
Speaker 2: tone is carry On by Crosby Stills, Nash and Young.
Speaker 2: So I wake up to do do do this morning,
Speaker 2: I woke up and I knew it's so jar wake
Speaker 2: up song. Yeah, but it's so jarring. But I'm like, WHOA,
Speaker 2: let's carry on.
Speaker 1: So you immediately and you're not a You're not a
Speaker 1: snoozer as I am.
Speaker 2: I am a snoozer. I heard this song three times
Speaker 2: this morning.
Speaker 1: Okay. So when you set when you set your alarm,
Speaker 1: how much time do you do, Like when I want
Speaker 1: to get up at eight, I'll set it at seven seventeen.
Speaker 1: Yeah are you? Are you that person?
Speaker 2: I give myself like eight minute increments. Okay, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: treacherous to some, but I like it.
Speaker 1: So this is something I just learned. I'm now I've
Speaker 1: been doing this all year. I actually now set my
Speaker 1: alarm ninety minutes before the time I did want to
Speaker 1: get up. So say I have to get up at eight,
Speaker 1: I will set my alarm for six thirty only because
Speaker 1: of that bewildered sleepy state. That is literally that's your
Speaker 1: twelve minute window to say the affirmation that you want
Speaker 1: to happen for your life against everything. And I'm a
Speaker 1: person that does not want to get out of bed.
Speaker 1: We'll make you know. Another five minutes, another five minutes,
Speaker 1: another five minutes, another five minutes. But now it's like
Speaker 1: the conscious thing of like I want to write a
Speaker 1: good song today. That's not the way. It's literally the
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do it. Like when you're dead tired
Speaker 1: and you want to go to sleep, if you can
Speaker 1: force yourself ten more minutes past the that is when
Speaker 1: your brain implements your thing in emotion. So it's a
Speaker 1: thing where you have to force this. But I promise
Speaker 1: you the first time you press news, just say the
Speaker 1: key affirmation and you can say it in a sentence
Speaker 1: like it doesn't have to be a long thing of
Speaker 1: five minutes or whatever.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's a gem.
Speaker 1: How do you handle creative blocks? I'm still trying to
Speaker 1: figure it out.
Speaker 2: How do I handle creative blocks? Right now, I'm going
Speaker 2: back to the Rick Rubin book. I'm going to his
Speaker 2: is it called the Creative Process or something? And I'm
Speaker 2: reading it, rereading it, highlighting things, highlighting new things and
Speaker 2: interfacing with that wisdom.
Speaker 1: And is there a time period of which you.
Speaker 2: Just absolutely yes. I mean I haven't written for the
Speaker 2: past field couple months. How do I feel about that?
Speaker 2: Concerned during the time, But I try to just live,
Speaker 2: just go, just absorb, be, you know, get a life, right,
Speaker 2: get a life. I was like, I was in such
Speaker 2: a rush for so long to be grown, to arrive,
Speaker 2: to create success, to you know, recreate the early success,
Speaker 2: and you know, letting that go is such a practice.
Speaker 2: But even of just trying to to make a good thing,
Speaker 2: you know, so yeah, get a life. That's that's a
Speaker 2: really succinct, great way of putting it.
Speaker 1: There you go. Number ten? Have you ever stolen something?
Speaker 2: Am I a klepto? Is that? That's what it is, right, eklepto?
Speaker 2: If I were stolen anything, not that I know of, Okay,
Speaker 2: not that I know of. Like, I don't have that
Speaker 2: in me where I like, I want to get away
Speaker 2: with stealing something like that scares me. Actually, I don't
Speaker 2: want to get in trouble.
Speaker 1: I don't want to.
Speaker 2: Steal something from a hotel. I don't want to steal, not.
Speaker 1: Even the hotels. Not a robe, not a robe.
Speaker 2: I've thought about it. What pillows?
Speaker 1: You know what I love more than anything on this earth.
Speaker 2: Okay, So at the fancy places where they put your
Speaker 2: initials in the thing or something, you can take those right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, I've been a few places where they
Speaker 1: put it on your pillar. Whatever you do, Okay. So
Speaker 1: I think I just started noticing at the Caliber hotels
Speaker 1: I stay at maybe the last two or three years,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that they have these like these miss
Speaker 1: bottles that they spray on your bed to give it
Speaker 1: that downy fresh feeling. And one day I walked past
Speaker 1: the housekeeper cart and I just saw a whole box
Speaker 1: of them. Both of my things are a cart related,
Speaker 1: so yes, for seasons. I'm sorry. I took two boxes
Speaker 1: of Rose Rose Spray miss because I wanted my home
Speaker 1: bed to smell like this particular spot that I was
Speaker 1: in in Hawaii would just smell misty and whatnot. And
Speaker 1: the other thing is I might have, Uh, if you're
Speaker 1: a Delta flyer, you know what I'm talking about. Dog
Speaker 1: bisc Off cookies.
Speaker 2: Are a problems up.
Speaker 1: Yo yo. So there was two chunky box supplies of
Speaker 1: bisc Off cookies in the overhead next to my bag,
Speaker 1: and man, just literally what.
Speaker 2: I opened it, no regard, no regard.
Speaker 1: I'll even go further that a girl that was like
Speaker 1: really sweet one at the time loved those cookies and
Speaker 1: I just had to make a move.
Speaker 2: I just cookies.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh man, the way that I was like that,
Speaker 1: now I was like, I have a friend of Deltas,
Speaker 1: So yeah, what is the best compliment that you've ever
Speaker 1: received from a fellow peer.
Speaker 2: The thing that comes to mind is when I'm doing
Speaker 2: theater where I get to act and sing and embody
Speaker 2: someone new because now I've done mulaan Rouge, I originated
Speaker 2: something CYNDI Lapper's new musical based on the movie Working Girl.
Speaker 2: I've done some other workshops and things like that. The
Speaker 2: biggest compliment is when someone who I really respect their
Speaker 2: artistry has said, you know, I forgot it was you,
Speaker 2: you know, and you you weren't singing like you're like
Speaker 2: who I think Jojo is. You weren't acting like who
Speaker 2: I think you are. I really got to get lost
Speaker 2: in That's that's a real compliment to me, because I
Speaker 2: don't want to be self indulgent always with the runs
Speaker 2: or with things, or like with doing you.
Speaker 1: Know, I expect you to do.
Speaker 2: I want to embody like that's my desire to get lost.
Speaker 2: I want to get get lost, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now I feel like I can ask you
Speaker 1: gave me an opening. I got to ask you this question, okay. So,
Speaker 1: of course, because your life, your life has so many
Speaker 1: like specific pivots and leading directions that you probably didn't
Speaker 1: dream of when you were eight or nine or whatever.
Speaker 1: But the reason why I was excited to see you
Speaker 1: participate in the chess play, the reason why I was
Speaker 1: excited to see you participate in it, is because the
Speaker 1: insane and I don't mean acrobatic like performative acrobatic where
Speaker 1: like you know everybody that we've seen on showtime at
Speaker 1: the Apollo Do. And I'm telling you I'm not going
Speaker 1: like or you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, I'm not going which yes.
Speaker 1: Yes, so. But there is a very intricate, I mean
Speaker 1: almost jazz level intellect of difficulty that every song in
Speaker 1: the Chess play. It's literally to me like if you
Speaker 1: conquer that, like seeing Liam Michelle conquer that she did.
Speaker 1: I had no expectations whatsoever. One I didn't know about
Speaker 1: the history of the play Chess, which was created.
Speaker 2: By two members and Tim Rice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so for me, I was disappointed when the
Speaker 1: play dissolved before you got a chance to get behind it.
Speaker 1: But I do want to know how deep into training
Speaker 1: camp did you get in learning those songs, because even
Speaker 1: I feel like practicing one of those songs will improve
Speaker 1: your artistry.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I was most excited for. So to
Speaker 2: give some context, Chess was a musical that was on
Speaker 2: Broadway and it was starring Lea Michelle and Aaron Tabate,
Speaker 2: Nicholas Christopher and like you said, written by two the
Speaker 2: guys from Abba and Tim Rice. The music is astounding
Speaker 2: Boom and we got to go see this together, and
Speaker 2: I was like watching the show and looking over at
Speaker 2: to you, I'm like, am I tripping? This is sick right?
Speaker 2: Like this music is. So that was the first time
Speaker 2: you I had never seen the show. I had heard.
Speaker 2: I had been studying and shedding and listening and stuff
Speaker 2: I had for the first time.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, were you intimidated at any point, of course.
Speaker 2: The whole time, But that's what I was, That's what
Speaker 2: I was excited about. So to answer your question, I
Speaker 2: was already off book by the time, you know, I
Speaker 2: learned all the songs, and I was off book even
Speaker 2: in the script. I deep dived into it. I was
Speaker 2: gonna take over for Lea Michelle while she was out
Speaker 2: for the summer. And the role is is beautiful. The
Speaker 2: songs are amazing, and you spoke to like a jazz
Speaker 2: level of difficulty, but it's like classical to me. I
Speaker 2: think they're they're related.
Speaker 1: But the one thing that this play didn't have there
Speaker 1: was no Broadway jazz hands in it. No, there's none
Speaker 1: of that, or I guess now that version would be
Speaker 1: like post Weber Rent level, where every song is like
Speaker 1: frozen level, like it was it was not Broadway at
Speaker 1: all and barely like melody. Like you just had to.
Speaker 1: I had to catch up with you wherever you're saying
Speaker 1: so precise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, dun dun dun dun dun dun da dun dun
Speaker 2: dun dun dun dunt dun du really sick, really amazing.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed so much learning this material and really abandoning
Speaker 2: thoughts of you know, what I thought would like be
Speaker 2: showy or whatever, Like I just I.
Speaker 1: Don't think it even allows you this space to flex
Speaker 1: as a vocalist, like.
Speaker 2: You use some moments, there's some moments where you can.
Speaker 2: And what's cool about this musical is that there are
Speaker 2: many different versions. Like the history of the musical was
Speaker 2: interesting too. I think it was done for the first
Speaker 2: time in the eighties, and you know, I got to
Speaker 2: hear the versions from the eighties. I got to hear
Speaker 2: when Josh Grobin and Adina Menzel and some other people
Speaker 2: did it in London for like a stage just a
Speaker 2: reading kind of not a reading, but anyway, So there
Speaker 2: were different interpretations of it, and like you said, it
Speaker 2: really did allow me to expand my instrument and my
Speaker 2: artistry just by having proximity to it.
Speaker 1: Just by even going to the gym, I feel like
Speaker 1: you're a better singer for it. Yeah, it has to
Speaker 1: come back, and if it does come back and you're
Speaker 1: part of that, like, I'll be there front ruin center
Speaker 1: because it's you know.
Speaker 2: What was hilarious also is that you were texting me
Speaker 2: as I was preparing for it. You're like, are you nervous?
Speaker 2: Because I'm nervous for you. I'm like a mirror. Do
Speaker 2: you not think that I can do this? What's going on?
Speaker 2: Then I started getting my own head.
Speaker 1: Oh I did?
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm sorry, I'm kidding. I wasn't really in
Speaker 2: my own head. I was just like, he cares. That's
Speaker 2: really nice. But you were like, are you sleeping? Are
Speaker 2: you thing listening to it? Are you programming your subconscious?
Speaker 2: I was like I am.
Speaker 1: I literally would wake up some random nights and just
Speaker 1: hits you like, how are you doing with preparation? Because
Speaker 1: I thought I could take in music like a sponge
Speaker 1: and dictated back verbatim. But yeah, anyone that conquers that
Speaker 1: they have all my respect. All right. I have a
Speaker 1: question about one of your songs or lack thereof sugar
Speaker 1: and Carbs. Yes, is it purposely twenty one seconds?
Speaker 2: It's just a little interlude, but I should have been
Speaker 2: the whole song.
Speaker 1: Okay. So there's there's a part of our friendship that
Speaker 1: I've not really dived into, and I haven't gone heavy on.
Speaker 1: We barely talk about our craft with each other. I mean,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about music or whatever, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But I really wanted to wait for this platform to
Speaker 1: ask you these questions. See, I thought that you left
Speaker 1: it at twenty one seconds a most, because what I
Speaker 1: believe this twenty one second interlude to be is sort
Speaker 1: of your potent assessment of how toxic the music industry
Speaker 1: is as far as their treatment and expectations of how
Speaker 1: they want women to look and represent themselves. And I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, okay, there must be a reason why
Speaker 1: this is exactly twenty one seconds. So I thought it
Speaker 1: was like some sort of I'm an adult.
Speaker 2: Wow, you think I'm deeper than I am. It was literally,
Speaker 2: I am so literal. Sometimes Sugar and Carbs is literally.
Speaker 2: You know, you're speaking to a project like an EP
Speaker 2: that I put out called try Not to Think About It,
Speaker 2: which was I was in a blue space. I was
Speaker 2: depressed at the time, and the way that I like
Speaker 2: to self soothe is through food. Historically many different ways.
Speaker 2: Though I don't really have a I can be addicted
Speaker 2: to different things a moment a person of you know,
Speaker 2: eating blah blah blah. So I've experimented with all different
Speaker 2: things sugar and carbs. Was just like, this is my
Speaker 2: comfort right now, And it was literally that.
Speaker 1: Well, we thought it was a commentary on how toxic.
Speaker 2: The industry is, that that's where your mind.
Speaker 1: Man, I was reading so much into it.
Speaker 2: Really wasn't. It was just like I am so uncomfortable
Speaker 2: in where I am right now, and basically twenty one
Speaker 2: seconds because I want to go get another snack. I
Speaker 2: need to go another almond croissant to just nibble on.
Speaker 1: People often get joy of knocking my fantasy Jinga down
Speaker 1: of like how they took all night to craft this thing.
Speaker 1: And I'll admit I spit at least twenty minutes just
Speaker 1: trying to analyze your brain on.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that so much. I just wanted an interlude,
Speaker 2: you know, and I hadn't hadn't made one yet.
Speaker 1: I forgot the literal, just to let it be what
Speaker 1: it is, Okay.
Speaker 2: It's just what it was. That's where I was at
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 1: Drake is the type of artist that will make those
Speaker 1: that participate in, you know, the mixtape game or you
Speaker 1: know now we just release singles and whatnot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all differently.
Speaker 1: Your interpretation of Marvin's Room first, the forty or Drake
Speaker 1: ever reach out to you, Yes, giving you notes on
Speaker 1: your version of that.
Speaker 2: Or Yeah, Drake DMed me and said really nice things
Speaker 2: when I released that, And that was so long ago now,
Speaker 2: which is really wild what time does and just how
Speaker 2: it keeps going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's twenty ten, twenty eleven to me is still
Speaker 1: like not five years ago.
Speaker 2: I know, four years ago. So then after that, though,
Speaker 2: I worked with forty on because the label that I
Speaker 2: was signed to initially was doing a deal they were
Speaker 2: going to redo Aliyah's unreleased they were going to work
Speaker 2: with some of for unreleased material, Drake and forty and stuff.
Speaker 2: So I as a like another part of that. I
Speaker 2: was going to be working with forty and so I
Speaker 2: did a song called Demonstrate, went up to Toronto and
Speaker 2: did some stuff with him, and I was so nervous,
Speaker 2: had such imposter syndrome. But this was after I did
Speaker 2: Marvin's Room after I had already kind of accepted, Okay,
Speaker 2: people know that I'm not thirteen or fifteen or sixteen anymore.
Speaker 2: I was like nineteen or twenty or twenty one. But
Speaker 2: I was still like, how do I how do I be?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: How do I make a statement?
Speaker 1: So you wanted to make as this was your thing
Speaker 1: where it's like like I want.
Speaker 2: To I'm an adult, I'm an adult. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Marvin's Room really was kind of like a turning point
Speaker 2: for me. It was a pivot point in my artistry
Speaker 2: of being like I curse and I'm out here having
Speaker 2: sex and I'm, you know, a bad girl. That's like
Speaker 2: kind of what I was feeling at the time.
Speaker 1: The response to it like what was it for you?
Speaker 1: In your circle? But also from the comments.
Speaker 2: I think in my circle they were like, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is who you, This is like who you are, You're
Speaker 2: out here, out here, and so they were like, that's
Speaker 2: cool that it's that's reflected as a little there's some
Speaker 2: edge and darkness in it, and it got a crazy
Speaker 2: amount of traction. It's not reflected in the views if
Speaker 2: you look on YouTube now, but it was taken down
Speaker 2: at like one hundred million, and it was a lot
Speaker 2: of attention toward it. So that was really cool that
Speaker 2: people were accepting something from me that was less like
Speaker 2: I looked at a record like Leave Get Out, which
Speaker 2: was my first single, I looked at that as kind
Speaker 2: of bubblegummy, and so I was like, Oh, I can
Speaker 2: do some like you know, dark stuff, and that's cool,
Speaker 2: It's what I'm I was definitely in a place of like, oh,
Speaker 2: looking for acceptance. Oh, people will accept this from me.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? So it was it
Speaker 2: was a no because my my manager at the time,
Speaker 2: was in alignment with me and we were like so
Speaker 2: the fact that I had her approval, I was like,
Speaker 2: let's do that. Let's just go ahead and do it.
Speaker 2: And it was a great exercise for me as a
Speaker 2: writer too, because I took his song, his melody, and
Speaker 2: I wrote a response to it. So that was something
Speaker 2: that I learned and became a part of.
Speaker 1: My like everyone else. Like the fact that you essentially
Speaker 1: the person on the other line to whom he was
Speaker 1: talking to, like you're yeah, and it was a twist
Speaker 1: on it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was. It was a cool exercise and
Speaker 2: something that I still continue to do to this day.
Speaker 2: And something that I had done before, the Marvin's Room
Speaker 2: thing I did. I wrote to like a T Pain song,
Speaker 2: a Sean Kingston song. I would write female responses because
Speaker 2: it was inspiring.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, what, wait, you did an answer to
Speaker 1: beautiful Girls or something.
Speaker 2: It's on the internet.
Speaker 1: Wait, how did I miss that?
Speaker 2: I'm glad you missed it. It wasn't that great.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna check it. Okay, I'm gonna search for that. No,
Speaker 1: let's get the white elfin in out of the room today. Okay,
Speaker 1: So recently you made a post on on social media
Speaker 1: about the state of singing today and whatnot. I'll say
Speaker 1: that your post definitely started a conversation. As far as
Speaker 1: it looks like Song of the Summer in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: six just very might well be a song totally created
Speaker 1: by AI and which one don't tell me, even not
Speaker 1: her rubbers. Uh uh, my fuck is bigger. It's basically
Speaker 1: if someone I guess, I try not to so to
Speaker 1: me if Max B who's sort of inherited the post,
Speaker 1: bismarcky old, dirty bastard, charismatic, horrible singing lamee. His hook
Speaker 1: writing is he's the greatest, but he's like he just
Speaker 1: sings any old way, like no tone. If Max b
Speaker 1: were prompt the spirit of Marcy in the Smiths Who
Speaker 1: And so right now the song called Rubbers in which
Speaker 1: Phoenix flex. But also, you know, Tiger has infamously released
Speaker 1: a record that it's also done the same way where
Speaker 1: everything's done in AI. So what are your feelings on
Speaker 1: You haven't spent a lifetime honing a craft and really
Speaker 1: putting care into your craft, and it might not necessarily.
Speaker 2: Matter, right, I completely agree with that, And I'm making
Speaker 2: these videos because I'm interested in what's going on and
Speaker 2: I like having conversations, as you do too. That's what
Speaker 2: this is about, right, having conversation, And I'm interested in
Speaker 2: examining like this culture that I'm a part of and
Speaker 2: that we're a part of, music of it. I'm a
Speaker 2: consumer of it, I'm a creator of it. I've been
Speaker 2: inside the music industry for a very long time. I
Speaker 2: also have a perspective where I can be somewhat outside
Speaker 2: of it. And so it's almost like these videos that
Speaker 2: I'm making and sharing across social media are a little
Speaker 2: bit of like an anthropological investigation. That's where I'm thinking
Speaker 2: about it from because I wanted to go to school
Speaker 2: and study that actually, and so this is just a
Speaker 2: commentary on it. I'm not really getting into the morality
Speaker 2: of it, of like this is bad. People in the
Speaker 2: comments can do whatever they want. And I actually love
Speaker 2: to see it. I love to see the helping debate
Speaker 2: and discourse about it. But I think it's interesting above all,
Speaker 2: I think that you don't need to be a great
Speaker 2: singer to be really impactful. I think it's fascinating. As
Speaker 2: I was listening to the radio last night and a
Speaker 2: song from the nineteen nineties came on someone who we
Speaker 2: deemed I'm saying we collectively, I think we're like, they're
Speaker 2: not a good singer, they're more of a dancer. Guess what,
Speaker 2: there was no autotune that was being used, then they
Speaker 2: sound pretty damn good if we're thinking about from today's standards,
Speaker 2: like what they had, what we used to like judge,
Speaker 2: it's actually pretty good and pretty impressive that they had
Speaker 2: their own sound, their own tone, their own like vibes
Speaker 2: for real. And I think it's very fascinating the what
Speaker 2: autotune does to and I use it, okay, I like
Speaker 2: melodine autotune. I've used all the things. I've experimented with
Speaker 2: so many different ways of being. But at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, I also like musical theater because it's
Speaker 2: one of the last frontiers that are untouched. It's really
Speaker 2: not being affected by these things that live, big concerts, festivals,
Speaker 2: even you know, content that's being made and deemed as
Speaker 2: live on the Internet. It's not like that. So I
Speaker 2: think it's interesting. I think that the pendulum swings like
Speaker 2: we're if the Song of the Summer is an AI song,
Speaker 2: maybe it'll swing in the next few years to to
Speaker 2: where we really want humanity. And that's why something like
Speaker 2: what Rosalia is doing is so cool, Like there's so
Speaker 2: many musicians that she hired to make that project, you know, Ray,
Speaker 2: there's such humanity in these things, and just plenty of
Speaker 2: examples of it. Bruno, as far as the way that
Speaker 2: he's I don't think interfacing with live auto tune and
Speaker 2: things like that or pre recorded vocals. So maybe I'm
Speaker 2: not hearing myself correctly, but it's my intention to not
Speaker 2: be judgmental or to not be on a high horse
Speaker 2: or anything like that, and just to be like we
Speaker 2: got and be like damn, that's really interesting, And how
Speaker 2: is it affecting us? And does that mean that less
Speaker 2: people will be interested in working on their craft because
Speaker 2: we don't need to work as hard. It's just interesting
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: Does it wear you that someone's artistic ability to give
Speaker 1: you the feels or goose pumps is now almost in
Speaker 1: diminished returns? Or like as each year goes by a
Speaker 1: certain level of where someone truly like a supernova talent,
Speaker 1: where that was like farm View, well that was deanelentiful
Speaker 1: great example. D'Angel is an awesome example, Like thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: there were no shortage of like, wow, that person can
Speaker 1: really singing their ass off, and does it get worrisome
Speaker 1: that well? I also believe that the really good ones,
Speaker 1: the ones who could be future Mavericks, just aren't above
Speaker 1: sea level yet. And somewhere on YouTube, yes, that person
Speaker 1: is there.
Speaker 2: That's my belief too. I don't really subscribe to this
Speaker 2: idea that like music's in a terrible place or things
Speaker 2: just you know, blah blah blah. That's just not my worldview.
Speaker 2: I actually get to interface with exceptional talent all the time,
Speaker 2: almost on a day to day basis, getting to live
Speaker 2: in New York City, being adjacent and a part of
Speaker 2: the jazz scene and being in that community, hearing great
Speaker 2: singers all the time, being in musical theater and hearing
Speaker 2: tremendous talent all the time. I'm just like, damn, I
Speaker 2: need to be better. Like all the time. I think
Speaker 2: it's inspiring. Getting to be at live shows, getting to
Speaker 2: go to the roots picnic, getting to be in small
Speaker 2: spaces and hear you perform, getting It's constantly inspiring. So
Speaker 2: I think that people do love soul and do love greatness,
Speaker 2: and they also love other things and there's room for
Speaker 2: it all. I appreciate that Leon Thomas, for example, is
Speaker 2: you know, out there with his instrument, with the songs
Speaker 2: he created, with his soul, with his own expression of things,
Speaker 2: and he's being influenced by a spirit that I was
Speaker 2: too with DiAngelo, And you know, from this and bringing
Speaker 2: it into to now, I think it's really dope.
Speaker 1: Thank you. What is the one pivotal moment that changed
Speaker 1: the direction of where your life is to where you
Speaker 1: are now?
Speaker 2: My life has been changed so many different times in beautiful,
Speaker 2: unexpected ways. Speak to the most recent change, I think,
Speaker 2: which is deciding to move to New York City that
Speaker 2: changed my life, and also realizing that moving away from
Speaker 2: a spirit of feeling like a victim of the music
Speaker 2: industry or feeling like a victim of oh I was
Speaker 2: born into a poverty mindset or you know, I never
Speaker 2: got I never learned how to do these things like
Speaker 2: I was. I didn't know. I squandered my opportunity. I
Speaker 2: didn't know because no one taught me whatever. Yo, Like okay,
Speaker 2: And then now what so I think that I was
Speaker 2: living in LA for thirteen years, I was just it
Speaker 2: felt like Groundhog's Day of just striving and just trying,
Speaker 2: and I was becoming more sensitive to the spirit of
Speaker 2: desperation that I felt even within myself and just kind
Speaker 2: of in Hollywood sometimes nothing against it. I love LA.
Speaker 2: I've had great experiences there, but against the suggestion of
Speaker 2: my team at the time and everything, I moved to
Speaker 2: New York and I just wanted to be back on
Speaker 2: the East Coast, which is where I'm from, closer to
Speaker 2: my family, and I wanted to be around theater. The
Speaker 2: first check I ever got was from the Huntington Theater
Speaker 2: in Boston, playing Mustard Seed and Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream.
Speaker 2: I love theater. I loved seeing shows being around them.
Speaker 2: I love walking around New York and singing and nobody cares.
Speaker 2: Just I mean and just like you know, you're one.
Speaker 1: Of those people.
Speaker 2: I'm like in a musical by breakout and song. No
Speaker 2: I'm not breaking out song, but I'm just like you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes humming to myself learning a song. I'm breaking out
Speaker 2: in song. So no, I'm just like that sucks. But
Speaker 2: I am just in my own world because everyone's in
Speaker 2: their own world here, okay. And I like that, you know,
Speaker 2: like the city.
Speaker 1: I feel like you do the back of it. I
Speaker 1: feel like you're I think when you walk in your
Speaker 1: dog like one in the morning.
Speaker 2: Not where I live, but I just love that the
Speaker 2: city is like a simp and there's just constant inspiration
Speaker 2: wherever you look. So that changing of mindset and just saying,
Speaker 2: you know what, contrary to what people are telling me,
Speaker 2: is the right thing, and you need to be in
Speaker 2: LA if you want to take your career seriously and
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. I actually think I've taken my life
Speaker 2: less seriously and more seriously at the same time by
Speaker 2: following what by following an intuition which has led me
Speaker 2: to a life that I'm really enjoying right now, which
Speaker 2: is just a little bit more random, but also more
Speaker 2: dialed in and honed in. Does that Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: It makes sense? It does. How long does it take
Speaker 1: you to get ready for a big event?
Speaker 2: It depends. This morning, I put my hair in two braids,
Speaker 2: Like this is not a big event, this is this,
Speaker 2: but this is this is exciting. I've been looking forward
Speaker 2: to this. But I'm just saying, like there's a difference
Speaker 2: between like I guess a red carpet and like, you know,
Speaker 2: doing any.
Speaker 1: When you do a red carpet a big event.
Speaker 2: I would say, I like to get myself two hours
Speaker 2: because I don't like to rush.
Speaker 1: Okay, what is the last thing that you looked for yourself?
Speaker 2: A turkey burger? Like a turkey burger on a bed
Speaker 2: of greens, so like a turkey burger salad. That sounds
Speaker 2: very healthy.
Speaker 1: And it was it was okay? How did you rate yourself?
Speaker 2: It was dry, It wasn't good. Yeah, it was not
Speaker 2: bustling like it should have been.
Speaker 1: All right, Do you create better when you're happy or
Speaker 1: when you're sad?
Speaker 2: I think it flows more like just like more rapidly.
Speaker 2: When I'm distraught or going through something, when there's some
Speaker 2: type of friction, I'm in a very I'm in a
Speaker 2: place where I'm really really happy and I'm well, and
Speaker 2: I'm it's maybe I'm reaching my upper limit, like the
Speaker 2: Big Leap book by Gay Hendrix, where it's like you're
Speaker 2: experiencing such like things are going nicely and you're You're like,
Speaker 2: there's no way.
Speaker 1: Let me sabotage, you know, me sabotage so I can
Speaker 1: get some inspiration. I know many a person that will say,
Speaker 1: let me get back with an X or so toxic
Speaker 1: and just sucking have material to write about.
Speaker 2: What was the thing that we were all just in
Speaker 2: mercury retrograde? Yeah, I had some people knocking on the
Speaker 2: door being like, hey, where you at? Are you happy?
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, just sin you know, are you
Speaker 2: in town?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So you're just never freaking know.
Speaker 1: The retrograde of the summer at twenty six was one
Speaker 1: for the record books.
Speaker 2: And I normally don't really indulge things like that, meaning
Speaker 2: like the oh, it's a retrograde really, but I actually
Speaker 2: like didn't sign a contract during that time because I
Speaker 2: was like, something's going on right now. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 2: I am finding a way to to allow myself to
Speaker 2: actually feel and not be afraid of joy and resonance
Speaker 2: and like things being good.
Speaker 1: I feel it. Okay, that's good to stay there. Your
Speaker 1: hometown has Boston, or.
Speaker 2: Specially the Boston Foxboro that's right, Okay.
Speaker 1: Whenever I take the train there, I never know which
Speaker 1: stop to get off.
Speaker 2: Back Bay or South Station.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's always I always choose the right one,
Speaker 1: Like is this one's supposed to get off or is it.
Speaker 2: Like you have to You could also get off in Mansfield,
Speaker 2: I think, or no, maybe that's a commuter rail.
Speaker 1: But in terms of like a car meeting me, like,
Speaker 1: there's always something when I travel to Boston. I love
Speaker 1: taking the train up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just to look at the it's so nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's my favorite thing. All right. Could you give
Speaker 1: me a fond memory of you and your mother?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well my mom has a beautiful voice, and she
Speaker 2: was our soprano soloist at our Catholic church, Saint Mary's
Speaker 2: in Foxboro. And I just remember being in the choir loft,
Speaker 2: like up with where the organ is and like feeling Oh,
Speaker 2: I just love the way the organ sounded, and sometimes
Speaker 2: I think maybe I'm remembering this right. I hope I am.
Speaker 2: But like sometimes if you press the thing down Wally, like.
Speaker 1: You would hear the like a pipe boys, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: And then looking down and hearing my mom's voice reverberate
Speaker 2: and seeing her just be so in alignment with her
Speaker 2: gift that God gave her, and singing for God, and
Speaker 2: then being like outside the church afterwards, and people you know,
Speaker 2: coming up to her and me looking up and just
Speaker 2: being so in awe and her being so gracious, and
Speaker 2: then us you know, getting in the ford Festiva and
Speaker 2: going to get an ice cream at friendlies. And another
Speaker 2: fond memory is my mom reading to me all the time.
Speaker 2: She read to me every night she we would go
Speaker 2: to Is.
Speaker 1: That where this voice comes from?
Speaker 2: Maybe she Oh, I loved the way she read to me.
Speaker 2: I love I love sounds obviously, you know. So she
Speaker 2: had such a great voice for reading and still does.
Speaker 2: I mean I would like for her to read to
Speaker 2: me now. So we'd go to our public library, the
Speaker 2: Boyden and rent books And yeah, that's one of my
Speaker 2: favorite memories.
Speaker 1: Okay, in your hometown, what is the hidden gem?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: Where must you go every time you go back to
Speaker 1: the old neighborhood.
Speaker 2: Damn, Foxborough has changed so much since I lived there.
Speaker 2: But let me try to think of something. Oh, Primos,
Speaker 2: there's a subshop that I believe is still there. Primos
Speaker 2: is still there, and it.
Speaker 1: Doesn't have to be just food either, like I go
Speaker 1: to Newberry Comics.
Speaker 2: When I go to you know, yeah, oh okay, it's
Speaker 2: not called the Ancient Mariner anymore. My uncle calls it
Speaker 2: the Nur but it's called something else. It's called like
Speaker 2: something like that's supposed to be like nautical. I mean,
Speaker 2: Ancient Mariner is nautical too. But it's a dive bar.
Speaker 2: You see some characters in there, and I really love
Speaker 2: it for that, Like it's you can also there's accommodations.
Speaker 2: You could stay there.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: It's a bit dodgy, I think, but the Ancient Mariner
Speaker 2: and it's like Pike Place or something. Now you can
Speaker 2: go and get like a vodka soda, like a cran something,
Speaker 2: and you can also play like Keno and maybe get
Speaker 2: some lotsarella sticks or whatever. But I like going there too.
Speaker 1: So there's a dive bar. You have your hometown dive
Speaker 1: bar that you go to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's beyond a die, but I don't even know
Speaker 2: what to do.
Speaker 1: They know you when you walk in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't go there by myself, but i'd go
Speaker 2: there with my uncle.
Speaker 1: Okay, what is something that you've learned the hard way? Oh?
Speaker 2: My god, I I learned everything the hard way. I'm
Speaker 2: just the type that needs to like bang my head
Speaker 2: against the wall to be like that hurts that. I
Speaker 2: require preparation. I don't really like winging things. Okay, maybe
Speaker 2: it's ad D some type.
Speaker 1: Of environ you do a jam session, you would like
Speaker 1: to know ahead of time, like what songs are you
Speaker 1: going to do?
Speaker 2: And what would you I would like to do my
Speaker 2: own preparation of being able to be like so I
Speaker 2: can call some tunes and be like, let's let's do
Speaker 2: it in this key?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Just so I feel good. But I don't need you
Speaker 2: to necessarily be like I mean, I would prefer if
Speaker 2: you would be like, let's maybe do this, but no,
Speaker 2: I would just want to go through my own rollodex,
Speaker 2: my own do you know what I mean? I just
Speaker 2: require a little thoughtfulness. That's what I've learned about myself
Speaker 2: and that's not a bad thing. It's not a good thing.
Speaker 2: It's just like for me to feel most comfortable if
Speaker 2: I'm going to a jam session, bitch, warm up, don't drink,
Speaker 2: you know, just like.
Speaker 1: Do the thing. Oh you have to. So if you
Speaker 1: know there's a night where you're going to sing, there's
Speaker 1: certain things that certain disciplines that you have to.
Speaker 2: Yes, And that's just in respect of the opportunity and
Speaker 2: my gift and of feeling good.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I've learned that the hard way.
Speaker 1: I think you also know you're probably more aware that
Speaker 1: the internet is forever, that's it. So you can't afford
Speaker 1: that's it a bad night.
Speaker 2: I've had so many weird nights, so many bad squad
Speaker 2: you know. I don't want to think about it as squandering,
Speaker 2: but like where I've you know, particularly in my twenties,
Speaker 2: where I'd get up and I'd be like four vodka,
Speaker 2: SODA's in and that ain't that ain't it for me?
Speaker 2: Some people can do that.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 1: So when the universe shows you a sign that a
Speaker 1: particular project does not belong to you, how do you
Speaker 1: not take it personal? What's admirable about you is that yes,
Speaker 1: you are this established artist, but I also feel like
Speaker 1: you're taking new steps in territory that wasn't there for you, say,
Speaker 1: when you were ten or whatever. So you know, but
Speaker 1: I think all of us are doing that, like exactly
Speaker 1: this is new to.
Speaker 2: Get you, yeah, and instantly out there taking steps.
Speaker 1: So how do you not take it personal if a
Speaker 1: setback happens and you know, like something fell through.
Speaker 2: For example with Chess, right like where that I thought
Speaker 2: that was going to be the rest of my year.
Speaker 2: I thought that I thought that I was going to
Speaker 2: be going into this Broadway show and that was what
Speaker 2: my life was going to look like, eight shows a week.
Speaker 2: You kind of have these like future memories that you make,
Speaker 2: and that's kind of what the morning is for a while.
Speaker 2: But what I did was I just got real active
Speaker 2: in imagining something else and being like, you know what,
Speaker 2: You've wanted to make an album that you're really proud of,
Speaker 2: You've wanted to dive in, You've wanted to not fragment yourself,
Speaker 2: and here's your opportunity. Here's your opportunity. Also to have
Speaker 2: a summer, you have more time in New York, in
Speaker 2: this new place that you call home, to be with
Speaker 2: my elderly dog who's almost fifteen. That's how it is,
Speaker 2: isn't crazy. She's cooking, she's running, she's on Librella, this
Speaker 2: arthritis medication. She's mad dogging, she's like five. So I
Speaker 2: just pivoted and just got excited about the things that
Speaker 2: I get to do. And it's crazy the way that
Speaker 2: life is unfolded for me. That didn't happen. Now I've
Speaker 2: got to be a part of a workshop for a
Speaker 2: new musical, new works, which is ultimately what I want
Speaker 2: to do, which is originator role. So you know, now
Speaker 2: I'm in the room with some incredible heavy hitters, you know,
Speaker 2: egot winners, and getting to make something.
Speaker 1: Okay, what is your favorite guilty pleasure movie?
Speaker 2: The Sex and the City movies.
Speaker 1: That's a guilty pleasure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really feel guilty about my pleasures. That's
Speaker 2: always what I but I say, I really don't. I
Speaker 2: like to feel nice exactly right. But I would say
Speaker 2: the Sex and the City movies. I also recently just
Speaker 2: watched The Devil Wears Pradac second movie. I love that stuff.
Speaker 2: I love movies set in New York.
Speaker 1: Okay, have you ever been in a car accident?
Speaker 2: I have I got into like a fender bender, and
Speaker 2: then I also was like in one around Christmas time
Speaker 2: where I got whiplash and so that was pretty scary.
Speaker 2: Nothing really bad, Thank god, what year is this? I
Speaker 2: got into that one in like twenty twenty two, but
Speaker 2: it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Like, wait, since I've eating meat yet.
Speaker 2: I don't think so is that okay?
Speaker 1: What was that feeling?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: What I what I wanted to do because it was
Speaker 2: my partner at the time was driving, and I wanted
Speaker 2: to like just get over it, and I just want
Speaker 2: to be like, it's good, it's good, we're gone, We're fine.
Speaker 2: I didn't want him to feel bad, which was really interesting.
Speaker 1: Were you driving?
Speaker 2: He was driving and I was in the passenger seat
Speaker 2: and the car hit my side and he kind of
Speaker 2: was not driving in a way that I liked, but
Speaker 2: he felt so bad, and I just didn't want to
Speaker 2: feel bad. So I was like, we don't need to
Speaker 2: go to the hospital. I'm good. I'm good. Good then,
Speaker 2: like pain said in later, Yeah, the adrenaline.
Speaker 1: Okay, who's the most out of character artist in your phone? Scroll?
Speaker 2: Out of character artist?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: What do you mean?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: Who do I know?
Speaker 1: That is the Pope, a texting friend of yours, or
Speaker 1: oh my god, just someone that's like a random, notable
Speaker 1: friendship that.
Speaker 2: You've I think people would probably think that this is
Speaker 2: a random, really notable friendship I have. I think maybe
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of who else. I don't really
Speaker 2: know what's random anymore. My life is so random.
Speaker 1: Well, when newcomers come to game night, yeah, I'll get
Speaker 1: their numbers to make sure that they can come to
Speaker 1: the next game night or not. And I guess, like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, the book when I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: let me find about Jojo because Zarah has Zarah or
Speaker 1: my man. For me, my moment there was making her
Speaker 1: hand on a wat right, But for her it's like
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god, my god, Jodren the.
Speaker 2: I love her girl. Yeah, nothing's ringing about I wish
Speaker 2: I had the Pope's number. He seems like a little pumpkin.
Speaker 1: There you go.
Speaker 2: Alright, I'm not like super Catholic, by the way, I
Speaker 2: just raised that way. Just a very Catholic coded podcast
Speaker 2: for me. Well really right, I've dropped a few Catholic moments.
Speaker 2: God bless everyone.
Speaker 1: So this might be your future. You're I don't think
Speaker 1: you never know what you It's true. Who are the
Speaker 1: five voices that you feel that they haven't been given
Speaker 1: enough light?
Speaker 2: The first artist that comes to mind, and you said voices,
Speaker 2: So you kind of mean in any capacity, right, just
Speaker 2: like people that I think you'd be platformed bigger maybe.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, we expanded that singers.
Speaker 2: Okay, there's this artist, Sonny Cologne.
Speaker 3: Do you know this? I love.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite projects is Juju in the flower Bug,
Speaker 2: and I just really feel like I'm his biggest fan.
Speaker 2: I really want more people to know. I think that
Speaker 2: Victoria Monet is perfection to me. I love her so much.
Speaker 2: I think that she's having a wonderful season. I just
Speaker 2: wanted to continue to grow. I admire her so much.
Speaker 2: FOW five Cecil mclaurin's Sealvant Joe incredible jazz singer Samara
Speaker 2: Joy already getting so much attraction. I absolutely love her,
Speaker 2: so curious to continue to see what she continues to do. God,
Speaker 2: this is yeah, that's four. Lastly, Damn, I wish I
Speaker 2: could look at my phone. Maxb No, yeah, Max By,
Speaker 2: There's so much dope music out there.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we'll leave the last one blink.
Speaker 2: Kelly forty seven.
Speaker 1: Nice Okay, obsessed, that's the name you don't hear often in.
Speaker 2: People's just brilliant.
Speaker 1: Okay. I have a general thought on the art of karaoke,
Speaker 1: and if a person rips it at karaoke, that's unfair.
Speaker 1: I like karaoke bars in which it's it's a hot mess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, one.
Speaker 1: Are you a karaoke singer and what is your go
Speaker 1: to karaoke song?
Speaker 2: Don't invite me to karaoke. I'm gonna make it weird.
Speaker 2: Someone's gonna try to sing leave, get out or too little,
Speaker 2: too late or baby it's too and I'm gonna be like, okay, cool,
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna be like, this is so whack.
Speaker 1: Why is this happening?
Speaker 3: Is that?
Speaker 1: Does that always happen? If you show up at a
Speaker 1: bar like somebody will.
Speaker 2: Sing it always happened. I don't want to speak hyperbolically
Speaker 2: but or in absolutes or whatever, but like it's been
Speaker 2: known to happen, and.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, you get ambushed with love and.
Speaker 2: Then they want me to sing it, and then then
Speaker 2: I'm like, now this is going to end up on
Speaker 2: the internet and that I look stupid, but like whatever,
Speaker 2: so okay, but if I were to do a karaoke song,
Speaker 2: it would probably be like a TLC song or I
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't love it. I don't love it.
Speaker 2: I don't love karaoke.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm fine with it.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm fine with singers not loving karaoke. Yeah, okay, So
Speaker 1: the irony isn't lost on me that you'd name pedialyte.
Speaker 1: You know, this is something that we use to survive
Speaker 1: whatever happened the night before, right yep. And you know
Speaker 1: you made it sound moody and sexy and all those
Speaker 1: things that you were going for. But when you sing
Speaker 1: it now, is it still a song that hits you
Speaker 1: the same or is it a symptom like where does
Speaker 1: it fall now you sing it?
Speaker 2: So that song is from the Good to Know album,
Speaker 2: which she came out during the pandemic, And what really
Speaker 2: resonates with me about it still is that I wanted
Speaker 2: to kind of do like an Irish drinking song in
Speaker 2: the course, like I really loved right, damn, I really
Speaker 2: loved Rihanna's cheers. Yeah the freaking weekend I drink. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I wanted to do something in that vein kind of
Speaker 2: But This was more down. This was more blue, or
Speaker 2: more like a depressed episode of it. So I'm like,
Speaker 2: every day is like a melancholic thing. Every day is
Speaker 2: another celebration. Life is the occasion, party till the sun,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. So what I what does resonate with
Speaker 2: me is that kind of Celtic heritage in the melody,
Speaker 2: and that's something that I'm really interested in exploring with
Speaker 2: this project too. Is just my lineage of being a little,
Speaker 2: a little clover in the I don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: it's somewhere in deep in my ancestry. So that's what
Speaker 2: I like about it. But I don't dig getting drunk anymore.
Speaker 2: I love a glass of wine, but I just don't
Speaker 2: really like feeling completely out of my mind. It used
Speaker 2: to be my desire to get out of my mind,
Speaker 2: and now I much prefer reality.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll delve into the tipsy part, but I haven't
Speaker 1: been like ship Face drunk. Yeah, I don't actually wanted
Speaker 1: to know what that felt like.
Speaker 2: You've been drunk.
Speaker 1: Nah. I'm such a lightweight that if I were to
Speaker 1: drink like Bailey's Khalua ice cream, I'll be ship Face
Speaker 1: drunk like I'm that light.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I folded very well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The second I start feeling smooth criminal leany, then
Speaker 1: I'm right. Yeah. Is it hard forgiving yourself sometimes?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know I even used the word earlier, like squander
Speaker 2: an opportunity, you know what I mean. Yes, it's hard
Speaker 2: to forgive when I felt like I didn't rise to
Speaker 2: the occasion of a moment that I didn't see was
Speaker 2: presented to me at the time, or where I felt
Speaker 2: like I should have stepped through something, I should have
Speaker 2: stepped up into something and I wasn't able to do that.
Speaker 2: There's that. Then it's when I've hurt somebody unintentionally or
Speaker 2: just through negligence or selfishness. Yeah, so that is hard
Speaker 2: to forgive myself for. I'm still actively working to forgive
Speaker 2: myself for not being, you know, a friend that I
Speaker 2: should have been, or a partner that I should have been.
Speaker 2: You know, particularly through my twenties, I was just really
Speaker 2: I was in so much pain and only able to
Speaker 2: kind of see my own I was just up my
Speaker 2: own ass of just like feeling bad for myself.
Speaker 1: You know, what is the greatest song of all time?
Speaker 1: One one that's really hard.
Speaker 2: But I'm just gonna say, like a favorite of mine
Speaker 2: that I think deserves to be part of the conversation,
Speaker 2: and it's Give Me the Night by George Benson. I
Speaker 2: know that's a really weird thing to say. I love
Speaker 2: George Bay. That's Rod Temperton, right, is it Quincy too?
Speaker 1: Yes, Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton.
Speaker 2: I think it's so beautiful and I love that he's
Speaker 2: that George is scatting on it and playing the guitar
Speaker 2: like he did on the on Broadway.
Speaker 1: In the video, he's doing it in skating backwards. He's
Speaker 1: skating backwards.
Speaker 2: That's just that's just what comes to mind for me.
Speaker 2: I'm sure that they're you know, we could reference to
Speaker 2: Stevie song or MJ song. There's so many songs, but I.
Speaker 1: Just for me, that's all checks everything. It's a great melody,
Speaker 1: The bridge is awesome, it's so nice. Everything is inside
Speaker 1: that song. I accept that answer. Cool, Okay. I would
Speaker 1: like to talk about your I won't say your advocacy
Speaker 1: or your your I don't even think it's social work,
Speaker 1: but I believe that is. It's quietly admirable the way
Speaker 1: that you handled the comeback situation.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And you know especially in the case of what happened
Speaker 1: to make the Stallion. People were slow to really get
Speaker 1: by behind her, especially in the very beginning, in the
Speaker 1: very beginning. And I would like to know the decision
Speaker 1: making process that went into you deciding to because that
Speaker 1: could have been an easy win for you in terms of, like,
Speaker 1: you know, like you establishing a new song.
Speaker 2: And standing on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could have been easy to.
Speaker 2: First of all, I had no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: I'm like, the comeback situation, what do you mean, like
Speaker 2: when people have said, I don't say no totally, I
Speaker 2: know what you mean. Now, that's okay. So I had
Speaker 2: a song called Comeback, and I'd like to give some
Speaker 2: context to that and see, and this.
Speaker 1: Is the problem with us, like because right now it's
Speaker 1: just you and me in a room right now, and
Speaker 1: I forget that. I have to clue them in.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll help fill in feell in a little bit.
Speaker 2: So I had a song called Comeback, which was about
Speaker 2: spinning the block with an X and being like, you
Speaker 2: know what, now it's time to come back and you
Speaker 2: make me come and all that stuff and just being
Speaker 2: just a little freak. And I don't really love that song.
Speaker 2: But that's how I felt at the time and what
Speaker 2: I want to share, and I want to increase my
Speaker 2: tolerance for being misunderstood, but I still struggle with it.
Speaker 2: So I'm just going to try to explain some of this.
Speaker 2: So my label at the time wanted to feature on it,
Speaker 2: and I was excited about that, and I had some
Speaker 2: ideas and they proposed. They were like, what if we
Speaker 2: go out to Chris Brown for this, He'd be perfect
Speaker 2: for it. I said, I am uncomfortable with the history
Speaker 2: of violence and particularly against black women that there has been,
Speaker 2: and so many of my fans are are black women,
Speaker 2: and I don't feel comfortable with that, So let's keep looking.
Speaker 2: Tory Lanez had been doing dope stuff and he's an
Speaker 2: amazing creative. I like a lot of his music. This
Speaker 2: was before anything happened with Meg the Stallion, so I
Speaker 2: was like, what about Tory. He just reached out about something,
Speaker 2: you know, I think he'd be perfect for it. He
Speaker 2: delivered a really dope verse. So we put out the
Speaker 2: song with him on it. It was during the pandemic.
Speaker 2: Everything was shut down. We shot parts of the video
Speaker 2: like virtually and everything. Then what happened with Meg the
Speaker 2: stallion happened, and I was just like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: the fact that first of all my intention to not
Speaker 2: be aligned with someone that is perpetuating violence, Wow, that
Speaker 2: is really crazy. My heart was broken. It was inconceivable
Speaker 2: what Meg went through. And it wasn't even a question
Speaker 2: of I'm pretty sure this is the version is still
Speaker 2: out there with him on it. But when it came
Speaker 2: to like I think it was the deluxe version or
Speaker 2: continuing on with that, I pulled it. I just it
Speaker 2: made me really uncomfortable. So that's kind of it just
Speaker 2: made me really uncomfortable, and like my original intention, which
Speaker 2: was to try to do the right thing was I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I'm just going to continue to try
Speaker 2: to do the right thing. And then he was like, oh,
Speaker 2: nobody gives a shit about you any way, you know,
Speaker 2: and he said some disparaging comments about me, and I
Speaker 2: did not know. Yeah, And I was like that.
Speaker 1: Oh, you made the right decision and it may or
Speaker 1: may not.
Speaker 2: Be true, but I have to be able to look
Speaker 2: at myself in the mirror.
Speaker 1: So you made the right decision. Oh, you know, you're
Speaker 1: to be commended for that. When you were a child,
Speaker 1: what were your dreams of in terms of like I
Speaker 1: made it, yeah, versus what do you feel right now?
Speaker 1: Is success?
Speaker 2: So I made it really young, and I've been singing
Speaker 2: since I was two and making money from uh performing
Speaker 2: since I was like six years old. So by the
Speaker 2: time I was thirteen and my first single came out,
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, it's about time. I've been doing
Speaker 2: this my whole damn life, right, So I made it.
Speaker 2: I had a number one single. I got to tour
Speaker 2: the world. I opened for Usher my first tour ever
Speaker 2: on his Confessions tour in Europe. You know, I got
Speaker 2: to see the world. I had people giving me diamonds,
Speaker 2: putting clothing on me, and like, you know, I got
Speaker 2: to wear like baby fat and go to the you know,
Speaker 2: fashion week and stuff. I was like, wow, you know,
Speaker 2: I really that's all I could have dreamed of. And
Speaker 2: then I had another amazing success with my second album,
Speaker 2: Were Too Little, too Late, and I just felt on
Speaker 2: top of the world and MTV and all this stuff,
Speaker 2: and then things slowed down with my label not being
Speaker 2: a functioning record label, not letting me go. It's all
Speaker 2: out there, and if I didn't change my definition of success,
Speaker 2: I would never be able to feel successful. Again, because
Speaker 2: if it's chart positioning, If my self worth is determined
Speaker 2: by being on the Billboard two hundred or being or
Speaker 2: not being in the Kia Asylum or you know, chasing
Speaker 2: that pop thing, I would not experience joy. I would
Speaker 2: not experience happiness. And I refuse, I refuse to go
Speaker 2: through this life and not experience pleasure and joy and
Speaker 2: resonance and alignment and the fruits of what life has
Speaker 2: to offer. But your work can offer so long winded
Speaker 2: way of answering your question. If I like what I'm
Speaker 2: doing and I know it's to the best of my ability,
Speaker 2: and I can see or I can feel that it's
Speaker 2: resonating with who is there, and that there's conversation about it,
Speaker 2: and that I can be paid, and that I can
Speaker 2: live a life that is a little more than comfortable,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like, I'm not asking for
Speaker 2: a whole lot, but I want to be able to
Speaker 2: make a living from what I love. I find that
Speaker 2: to be successful living. Yeah, a good living. You know
Speaker 2: that I feel respected and appreciated. That's success to me.
Speaker 2: Like I look at my life and I'm proud of myself.
Speaker 1: What is your hidden talent that has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with your career. What's a hidden talent that you have.
Speaker 2: I try to put all my talents out there because
Speaker 2: I'm just trying. No, okay, I don't know if I
Speaker 2: can still do this, but no double joint.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, just say you make good sourdough bread
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Come on, man, uh, just that hurt. I used to
Speaker 2: be able to literally light at flat back.
Speaker 1: What I hate you people.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, Lamy supports.
Speaker 1: He used to do that in the fourth grade, like
Speaker 1: like bendy. Yeah, okay, I.
Speaker 2: Don't know if that's a talent, but something I.
Speaker 1: Got what I asked for. Can you share with me
Speaker 1: a fond memory about you and your father?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, I love thinking about us being in the car.
Speaker 2: He would drive from Nashua, New Hampshire to Foxboro, Massachusetts
Speaker 2: to pick me up like every other weekend, you know,
Speaker 2: child of divorce, only child, and on those cars rides
Speaker 2: from Foxborough back up to Nashua, we would harmonize and
Speaker 2: there's nothing like family blend.
Speaker 1: Would you sing with your mother ever? Yeah?
Speaker 2: But my dad and I would sing more like cool songs,
Speaker 2: like you know. He had like a Blues Brothers type
Speaker 2: of voice, and he'd play the harmonica and the guitar,
Speaker 2: and so we would we would sing more classic rock
Speaker 2: and soul, and I'd play him some hip hop I
Speaker 2: was listening to. He didn't quite get it, he didn't
Speaker 2: quite like it. I'd play him some R and B
Speaker 2: and stuff that I was listening to. We loved to
Speaker 2: bond over music, so that was definitely. Those are among
Speaker 2: the fondest memories.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: You know, rooted to music, and both with both parents,
Speaker 2: the memories are music based.
Speaker 1: Okay. I would like to know how did you convince
Speaker 1: or pitch to Zelda Williams, daughter of Robin Williams, the
Speaker 1: Great Robin Williams, to direct the video for Save My Soul,
Speaker 1: and and just the cathartic process of both of you
Speaker 1: kind of having your relationships with your dads in common
Speaker 1: and just that whole process. How did that come to be?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 2: Zelda is one of my longest friends, one of my
Speaker 2: closest friends, like a sister to me. Her mom, Marsha,
Speaker 2: and the whole tribe of people that they roll with.
Speaker 2: And I remember when her father passed and I played
Speaker 2: his daughter in a movie. And I'm not going to
Speaker 2: say much more about it other than I remember when
Speaker 2: it happened. I remember how I wanted to be there
Speaker 2: for her, and I remember how she was there for
Speaker 2: me when my father passed. So in the Save My
Speaker 2: Soul video, which was like or the song, I took
Speaker 2: it to be about addiction and about feeling like you
Speaker 2: are really just lost in the sauce of feeling like
Speaker 2: you're not in control.
Speaker 1: And you made this for your dad before he passed away.
Speaker 2: Which I think so yeah, or maybe it was after.
Speaker 2: I really don't remember when we did it. I might
Speaker 2: have been after, but anyway, I was in a really
Speaker 2: dark place too, And Zelda and I always talked creatively
Speaker 2: and we always shared things that we were watching. And
Speaker 2: she's really not only is she an amazing creative, she's
Speaker 2: an amazing critic as well, Like her assessment of things
Speaker 2: is really helpful, so she can be really constructively critical
Speaker 2: and she's a brilliant woman. And I was like, would
Speaker 2: you ever direct something? I think she was telling me
Speaker 2: she wanted to get into directing, and I ended up
Speaker 2: being the first thing that she directed. It happened to
Speaker 2: be music video. Now she's gone on to work with
Speaker 2: like Focus Features and do Lisa Frankenstein and she's developing
Speaker 2: her next project, and so I am honored to be
Speaker 2: a part of her journey with her creative output, because
Speaker 2: she really is brilliant. But it just started through conversation
Speaker 2: just friends.
Speaker 1: What's the best advice that you've ever given a younger artist?
Speaker 2: Well, do as I say, not as I did, and
Speaker 2: I'll explain what I mean, because the advice that I
Speaker 2: would give is learn how to engineer and produce yourself.
Speaker 2: And I can't do those things yet, not proficiently.
Speaker 1: Really, No, I thought you were a war.
Speaker 2: Logic and stuff. I mean. No, I love to be
Speaker 2: with my engineer and camping my vocals and doing all
Speaker 2: the things. But as far as me doing it myself, no,
Speaker 2: I love seeing Ariana Grande do that. I love seeing
Speaker 2: my good friend Tory Kelly do that. I really admire that.
Speaker 2: And the advice that I would give younger musicians is
Speaker 2: learn how to do learn how to be self sufficient
Speaker 2: so you don't have to, you know, depend on like
Speaker 2: me doing a show and trying to track down this
Speaker 2: MD or this producer and be like, can we get
Speaker 2: the stems separated for this? You know, have them on
Speaker 2: a hard drive, like collect your things, be organized and
Speaker 2: get really obsessed with with your craft, whether your instrument is,
Speaker 2: and learn and how to play an instrument so you
Speaker 2: can accompany yourself, which is something I don't do. And
Speaker 2: it's never too late for an old dog to learn
Speaker 2: new tricks, but you know, it's really wonderful to have
Speaker 2: that from a young age. That's the advice I would
Speaker 2: give young creatives. And get comfortable with promoting your music.
Speaker 1: How hard is it for you to cut ties? Especially?
Speaker 1: I mean this could be also personal, right, but in
Speaker 1: terms of you know, just knowing the history of your
Speaker 1: journey from record label to different managements, to people and
Speaker 1: your team and your staff, you know, like confronting people.
Speaker 1: That's like my Achilles hill. I'd rather I'd rather be underground,
Speaker 1: hiding under the rubble than to have to like and
Speaker 1: to relate, like to advocate for yourself. How hard is
Speaker 1: it to advocate for yourself and let someone go?
Speaker 2: It's so hard, right it is? It takes time, and
Speaker 2: I have stayed in dynamics that I knew had an
Speaker 2: expiration date, but I was just waiting for something like
Speaker 2: really bad or really I couldn't live with it anymore,
Speaker 2: to rip the band aid off. And sometimes you never
Speaker 2: get that really bad thing that happens. So you're just
Speaker 2: like in a state of dissatisfaction with the status quo.
Speaker 2: But I've tried to increase my tolerance for, sorry, increase
Speaker 2: my tolerance for the discomfort of having the hard conversation,
Speaker 2: and oftentimes I need to like write it out and
Speaker 2: almost rehearse it, or sometimes be like, hey, I want
Speaker 2: to share something with you. I'm going to send it
Speaker 2: in a text or an email. Sit with it, let
Speaker 2: me know what you think. Then let's talk about it,
Speaker 2: because I'm going to stumble over my words, and sometimes
Speaker 2: I'll try to and sometimes I'll try to plant seeds
Speaker 2: of like discontent and be like.
Speaker 1: You're passive aggressive judgment.
Speaker 2: I just mean a plan to see it off, like
Speaker 2: you know, and obviously this isn't working right, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? I guess that is passive aggressive. I'll
Speaker 2: be like, you know, and clearly the way that this
Speaker 2: is needs to be reconfigured. So let's I get so
Speaker 2: dead ass too.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the way even a hypothetical example, I
Speaker 1: have me scared, like, Okay, no.
Speaker 2: I really I'm so intense sometimes but it's it is
Speaker 2: challenging too. But I like to think about it like
Speaker 2: this right now, because I want to be on good
Speaker 2: terms with all people and especially people I respect. It's
Speaker 2: not that I want to I want them out of
Speaker 2: my life. It's just like, let's find the new correct
Speaker 2: place for us to be in each other's lives, perhaps
Speaker 2: work together, but maybe with a new perspective on it,
Speaker 2: and maybe with you focusing in this area and I
Speaker 2: take more of it. Right now, at this point in
Speaker 2: my life, I want to be in a more CEO
Speaker 2: position in my life and career. You know you want that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Wow, Like for me, I've such a fear of really
Speaker 1: becoming a suit and I'm going to be a suit.
Speaker 1: Well's I know. But it's just, you know, in my mind,
Speaker 1: I need to be one hundred percent immersed inside of
Speaker 1: my creativity and whenever any logistical like things I have
Speaker 1: to sign or have a meeting about this or you know,
Speaker 1: it's the business end of it like pulls me out
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: And Okay, so yeah, maybe when I say CEO, I
Speaker 2: really don't mean that. I just mean that I just
Speaker 2: want to be way more inside of and across all things.
Speaker 1: But I got this.
Speaker 2: I don't like the logistical stuff either, That's why a
Speaker 2: chief of staff, you know, ahead of operations, is really
Speaker 2: really important when you have different plates spinning. I don't
Speaker 2: know how you do all the things that you do.
Speaker 2: I truly truly don't, but even just being in proximity
Speaker 2: and in friendship with you has been very inspiring in
Speaker 2: my own job.
Speaker 1: I just wake up.
Speaker 2: No, you don't.
Speaker 1: All right, these are my last three questions. Okay, what
Speaker 1: is the most awkward thing you ever said to hear
Speaker 1: of yours when you first met them?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Well this thing came to mind because
Speaker 2: I love Destiny's Child. I love all three members, and
Speaker 2: Kelly Rowland is so talented, so beautiful, so gracious, so
Speaker 2: stunning all the things. And I was so awkward because
Speaker 2: I thought her husband was her makeup artist. So I
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, I love him. He does
Speaker 2: such beautiful work. And I think she was just like,
Speaker 2: that's my husband. I was like, oh my god, that's
Speaker 2: not who I thought that was. That's a different that's
Speaker 2: a different guy. Okay. I still think about it to
Speaker 2: this day. I'm just like, why did you just shut up?
Speaker 1: This out? They're finding out.
Speaker 2: I'm sure she still thinks. Maybe she doesn't think about it
Speaker 2: at all, but I was just I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: he's so sorry. I thought someone else.
Speaker 1: Who But I'm also the king of that. What is
Speaker 1: the most treasured item you've ever collected?
Speaker 2: What treasured?
Speaker 1: Yes? What's what is? What's your soul train? What's your
Speaker 1: vintage cars?
Speaker 3: Or?
Speaker 2: Oh man, I don't think that I'm much of a collector, actually,
Speaker 2: but someone got me.
Speaker 1: A real No, I'm not. I'm jealous. Okay, yeah, likewo.
Speaker 2: Like literally, I lived in la for thirteen years. I
Speaker 2: had a storage space. I let almost everything go when
Speaker 2: I moved to New York. I just keep it moving.
Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, people are like, do you
Speaker 2: have those outfits that you wore, you know from the
Speaker 2: you know, from the thing. I'm like, no, I don't
Speaker 2: know where they are.
Speaker 1: None of your clothes, none of your concert posters, none
Speaker 1: of yours.
Speaker 2: I have a few plaques and stuff that I'm thankful
Speaker 2: that my mom kept at her boyfriend's like basement or
Speaker 2: something like. We just I just moved so much. I've
Speaker 2: moved twenty two times in my life, and it's it
Speaker 2: makes me sad actually a little bit. But this is
Speaker 2: my answer to the question. My friend got me oppressed
Speaker 2: for Leaf Clover, and they're really rare, and I think
Speaker 2: that's really cool. Is it sad that I'm not sentimental?
Speaker 1: No, it's it actually tracks because I know many of
Speaker 1: the artists like that.
Speaker 2: Just got to keep going.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 1: Last question, when all is said and done, what do
Speaker 1: you want us to know about you?
Speaker 2: I think that's a hard question. I mean, what do
Speaker 2: I want people to know about me? That I am
Speaker 2: passionate and curious and always wanting to evolve and grow.
Speaker 2: And I love music so much. The industry of it
Speaker 2: can sometimes suck the joy from it, not so much,
Speaker 2: but music is so awesome and I love to be
Speaker 2: around people who are passionate and evolving too, And that's
Speaker 2: really my Yeah, that's what I'd like, I think.
Speaker 1: Okay, this wasn't that hard, was it. This was so
Speaker 1: from one to six. We did a nice we did
Speaker 1: a we did a six point eight.
Speaker 2: This is so great. I appreciate all these questions.
Speaker 1: This was really you know, I want to I want
Speaker 1: to get to the service of someone being a human being,
Speaker 1: not just so tell me about your new record totally.
Speaker 1: What was it like doing you know.
Speaker 2: We covered so much ground and all so many of
Speaker 2: the things that I that are important to me and
Speaker 2: that I want to talk about, from just the state
Speaker 2: of the music industry and singing and theater and coast
Speaker 2: to coast and all the things. So thank you for
Speaker 2: giving me the opportunity.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you my friend Joanna, And yeah, this
Speaker 1: is the Quest Love Show and we will see you
Speaker 1: in the next go round. See y'all. Wow, that was
Speaker 1: sweet day. We did it.
Speaker 2: You pulled out some song.
Speaker 1: Quest Love Show is hosted by me a Mere Quest
Speaker 1: Love Thompson. The executive producers are Sean g Brian Calhoun
Speaker 1: and Me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jacob Payne. Produced
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Speaker 1: Check out hundreds and hundreds of QLs episodes, including the
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Speaker 3: I Do