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Speaker 1: So welcome for everyone listening. This is doctor Matt, who's

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Speaker 1: someone who I don't personally work with, meaning he hasn't

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Speaker 1: quote unquote treated me. We've spoken because we've connected on

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Speaker 1: another matter that does isn't about me. But I so

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Speaker 1: I met doctor Matt in a way that maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you another day. It's something like it's not a secret,

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Speaker 1: but it's a little prime kind of private for now.

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Speaker 1: So but I like, I like doctor Matt. And you

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Speaker 1: give your resume, like not long, but just like, what's

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Speaker 1: your I'm psychologist.

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Speaker 2: I'm in private practice. I've been in private practice since

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Speaker 2: ninety nine, which is obscene to me. I can't believe

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Speaker 2: how long I've been doing this.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, and what percentage? What do you mostly work on?

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Speaker 1: It's fan I work.

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Speaker 2: A lot with anxiety and depression, and a lot with families,

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Speaker 2: all aspects of families. So I see a lot of kids.

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Speaker 2: I do a lot of parenting, a lot of emerging

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Speaker 2: young adults, a lot of twenties. The twenty somethings are

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Speaker 2: coming into my practice more than ever before. Kids are

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Speaker 2: also couples.

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Speaker 1: And couples, So you have like a what percentages kids?

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Speaker 1: What percentages or kids slash adolescents or percentages come.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, whenever you get a child. Part of

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Speaker 2: my practice, I don't really just treat the child because

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Speaker 2: I gotta treat the whole family. I gotta treat everybody right,

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Speaker 2: so everybody comes in, so I make sure of it

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Speaker 2: so it ranges. I'm about fifty to fifty with kids

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Speaker 2: to adults.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So since I was interviewing Raquel now Rachel from

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Speaker 1: vander Pump Rules, I mentioned it to you and I

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Speaker 1: asked you to watch the reunion of vander Pump Rules.

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Speaker 1: So you watched the three parts of the reunion. I did, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: So to get everyone caught up, because I was trying

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Speaker 1: to get my head straight about what I thought I

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Speaker 1: was seeing, I asked doctor Matt to watch the reunion

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Speaker 1: because it seemed different than even the Housewives reunions I've seen,

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Speaker 1: where it is a beatdown in many different directions and

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Speaker 1: it is not exactly positive and it's not necessarily feel good.

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Speaker 1: I felt that it's been a little bit like there's

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Speaker 1: always like a toast at the end in some version

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Speaker 1: of a resolution. And I watched this and it felt

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Speaker 1: to me like a beatdown of a girl that people

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Speaker 1: do not like, made many mistakes great, but I just

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Speaker 1: was watching it on its face as a beat down

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Speaker 1: my words. She wanted to leave, and then she was

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Speaker 1: asked to come back, so I asked doctor Matt to

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Speaker 1: weigh in. So I then thought he'd be interesting to

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Speaker 1: just have on this show, not just about that, but

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Speaker 1: just about other things going on, whether it's Danny Masterson

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Speaker 1: or Cancel culture or scientology. I wanted to sort of

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Speaker 1: try this out because I think think a normal personal,

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Speaker 1: lay person discussing something is different than a professional person

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Speaker 1: that is thinking about this kind of stuff all day.

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Speaker 1: And that's an expert, not saying doctor Matt knows it all,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure his opinion, you know, take his opinion

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Speaker 1: and see what you think. So this is doctor Matt,

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Speaker 1: and I guess we'll start with that. So you watched

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Speaker 1: that reunion, and I had research and know a bit

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Speaker 1: about emotional abuse personally, and I wanted to know what

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Speaker 1: you thought about that, like at that level. And you

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Speaker 1: said something very interesting, which was that it did not

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Speaker 1: seem like there was any goal or aim for resolution, right.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it was. It seemed to me it was

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Speaker 2: just a hamster wheel of hate. Right, we were never

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Speaker 2: getting off that, and they had a lot to be

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Speaker 2: angry about, not to say that they were, you know,

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Speaker 2: unnecessarily upset or angry, but there was no goal to that.

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Speaker 2: I unless, you know, I've been thinking about that, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's because of the name nature of the beast.

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Speaker 2: Maybe the goal is to get ratings, simply that, right,

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Speaker 2: so what are we going to do to get ratings?

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Speaker 2: And maybe right so, you know, I might be looking

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Speaker 2: at it differently, and what I would like to see

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Speaker 2: as a goal of some kind of conclusion, of some

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Speaker 2: kind of satisfaction, feeling better about a horrible event or

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Speaker 2: something that happened to you that was horrible. This reminded

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Speaker 2: me of Roman time, sending people, you know, slaves into

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Speaker 2: the colosseum to get slaughtered by the lions and we're

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Speaker 2: in the audience watching.

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Speaker 1: By the way, it's so funny because I was talking

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Speaker 1: to someone using the same gladiator reference. I can't believe

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Speaker 1: you just said that. We've never said that to each other.

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Speaker 1: I thought the same thing. It's yeah, And the funny

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Speaker 1: thing is that you said, like, maybe it's about ratings,

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Speaker 1: which is so like cute because you don't watch these shows,

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Speaker 1: but the person who is the executive producer of the

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Speaker 1: show said that the show was on the verge of cancelation,

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Speaker 1: possibly being canceled, and that this saved the show, that

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Speaker 1: this scandal saved the show.

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Speaker 3: So it's just funny and it's interesting to me too,

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Speaker 3: because you know, there are other shows like Intervention or

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Speaker 3: Hoarders where they're actually working through problems.

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Speaker 2: Right they're working through issues or conflicts, and it doesn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily have to be I'm going to slow to you.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be all this high amount of

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Speaker 2: conflict watching people say things that maybe you always wanted

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Speaker 2: to say to somebody but didn't either have the guts

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Speaker 2: or it didn't want to know, have the ramifications of it.

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Speaker 2: So we sort of kind of vicariously enjoy watching someone

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Speaker 2: do that. But I think that there's more to it

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Speaker 2: than that, and I think there's an opportunity there for growth.

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Speaker 2: You know that. I tell my patients a lot. I say,

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Speaker 2: when you're angry at somebody and you have a five

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Speaker 2: gallon bucket of shit and you want to throw it

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Speaker 2: on them, there's no way you're not gonna get splattered

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Speaker 2: back on yourself. There's just no way, and I don't

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Speaker 2: think I would ever choose to do something that I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna get shit on myself for right, I want to

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Speaker 2: avoid it.

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Speaker 1: Well and the funny, Well, it is two things. One

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Speaker 1: is I don't blame the players, because I didn't blame

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Speaker 1: uh Russell Crowe for going into the pit and killing.

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Speaker 1: It was kill or be killed. I don't blame the players.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny because I said something about two women

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Speaker 1: on another show that said to each other, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: get this other girl wasted, and then one of their

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Speaker 1: sons forced himself upon her behind a door and that

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Speaker 1: was aired like and I never have said their names

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Speaker 1: because I'm not really blaming them. When you're in this game,

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Speaker 1: when you're in that colisseum, and I've been in that colosseum,

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Speaker 1: I've said things I would never normally say. I've done

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Speaker 1: things that you're in and I've I've not liked people

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Speaker 1: that I would normally like, because when you're on the field,

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Speaker 1: it's just a different game there, and it is for ratings,

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Speaker 1: whether it's even it's not like on the forefront. You're

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Speaker 1: not sitting there every second, so you just know what

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Speaker 1: the goal is of what you're doing. It's to always

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Speaker 1: say the thing you like, we hold back in life.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's all what I think is interesting,

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Speaker 1: and everyone's thinking about the people. And yes, we have

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Speaker 1: to think about the production because the people that are

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Speaker 1: the grown ups that are responsible and what they're putting out.

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Speaker 1: But if people aren't buying it, if people aren't buying it,

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Speaker 1: then there's nothing to sell. It's supply and demand. So

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Speaker 1: I think we have to look at the viewer that's

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Speaker 1: consuming this as normal because I said, it's almost like

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Speaker 1: the consumer. The viewer thinks of them. They think of

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Speaker 1: it as reality, but they kind of think of them

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Speaker 1: almost as actors. They don't think of it as like

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Speaker 1: real real. It's real, but it's not real real, So

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Speaker 1: they will allow for something to go down that they

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Speaker 1: would never allow in their own lives if they were

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Speaker 1: standing by. So it's like, I think we're consuming things.

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Speaker 1: And I just think that that podcast made a lot

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Speaker 1: of people reach out to me and start thinking I

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Speaker 1: didn't see it that way. They just were thinking this

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Speaker 1: is an entertainment vehicle, like gladiators being ripping each other's

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Speaker 1: arms off, But when they really thought this is a

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Speaker 1: daughter could be a mother one day, a purse, a

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Speaker 1: human being at the baseline, that was why it was

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Speaker 1: the upside down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and and not just the people who were attacked,

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Speaker 2: But I would have I would have preferred to also

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Speaker 2: hear more from the people who were attacking about what

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Speaker 2: exactly got them so upset? What exactly because you know,

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Speaker 2: this is the cheating. It seems like it's in a

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Speaker 2: lot of their lives. You know, it's in the in

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Speaker 2: the past and the histories of the show. Yes it was,

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Speaker 2: and maybe it was was more personal. But why was

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Speaker 2: it personal? And how was it personal? And how did

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Speaker 2: it affect them? And how did they how were they

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Speaker 2: afraid that it was going to affect them going forward? Right?

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Speaker 2: So that I think is so important, especially with like

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Speaker 2: healthy conflict resolution, because we don't have healthy conflict resolution

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Speaker 2: right now. A lot that doesn't get demonstrated too often.

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Speaker 2: Many battles are fought for for us instead of instead

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Speaker 2: of talking about it, people pull up their tense stakes

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Speaker 2: and leave, instead of managing and dealing with, Hey, this

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Speaker 2: has hurt me, this upset me, or this hurt me

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Speaker 2: upset me. But instead of saying it hurt me, upset me,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to attack you and I'm gonna make you

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Speaker 2: hurt and make you feel the way I feel.

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Speaker 1: They need a moderator to do you have needed the

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Speaker 1: host to facilitate.

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Speaker 2: That, somebody that because because when you're emotional, you're obviously

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Speaker 2: not thinking that in your emotional I'm gonna hurt, I

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Speaker 2: want to hurt. I'm hurt, I'm wanna hurt you. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna make it fair and i'm gonna go I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: beat you, gonna win. So yeah, absolutely a moderator will

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Speaker 2: be important, someone who would be important to direct that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it's more healthy. So it's an opportunity this way. Look,

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm a result based right, So I want people

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Speaker 2: to leave that situation feeling a little bit better, feeling

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Speaker 2: a little bit you know, I've grown a little bit

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Speaker 2: from the situation. This is a challenge and I've grown

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Speaker 2: from it. I can't imagine anybody who was launching all

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Speaker 2: those attacks felt better afterwards, tired, exhausted, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know if they felt actually better about it anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's funny because there's a guy in this

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Speaker 1: Tom who's the villain. Also, and I had a guy,

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Speaker 1: a person yesterday, I had a person on this podcast

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Speaker 1: who was on a show with Tom as a roommate,

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Speaker 1: and he said it was this like sort of competition space,

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Speaker 1: this like boot campy type of army military thing. And

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Speaker 1: this guy Tyler, said that Tom was a good guy,

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Speaker 1: that he was loyal, that you could tell in these

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Speaker 1: games that he's the type who really went for you

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Speaker 1: and he got other people's backs, and like he too

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Speaker 1: is a gladiator in the middle of it. Now, I

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Speaker 1: know he's in a relationship, and I'll get into that

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Speaker 1: with you. He's in a relationship with someone that he's

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Speaker 1: lived with for ten years and now they've gone through

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Speaker 1: this and they're still living together, which I really question

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Speaker 1: because I can't imagine anyone who would live with someone

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Speaker 1: that they didn't have to live with, and I mean

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Speaker 1: children the abandonment issue, where like it's called abandonment in

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Speaker 1: the courts or some very serious diar reason. And I

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Speaker 1: think that the reason they are living together, and I

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Speaker 1: think that the reason he is also the villain in

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Speaker 1: this manner is because you do different things on these

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Speaker 1: television shows and you would in your normal life, as

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Speaker 1: I'm saying everybody does, and that shows based on alcohol

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Speaker 1: and affairs so this guy said, he's a human being,

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Speaker 1: and he said, it really bothers me because he had

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Speaker 1: an affair. He cheated. Now, by the way, he's not married,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't have kids. I'm not saying it's not bad,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think it's as bad as being married

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Speaker 1: with kids. That's just my opinion. And so this guy

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Speaker 1: Tyler was saying because of Cancel culture, like this guy's

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Speaker 1: getting so abused and other people that talk to him

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Speaker 1: are getting abused. And Rachel had said to me that

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Speaker 1: people that follow her or comments on something get abused,

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Speaker 1: Like we're really in this abusive culture. And he said,

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Speaker 1: people have affairs, people do bad things, but this he

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Speaker 1: has to live on a national stage, same with Rachel,

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Speaker 1: like they have to live it on a everyone has

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Speaker 1: to weigh in their opinion. And it's online bullying like

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Speaker 1: abusing these people. So where's the line. Why is that? Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he cheated, it's.

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Speaker 2: Bad, right, right, And maybe because he's a public public

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Speaker 2: figure of sorts, so it gives him access. It gives

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Speaker 2: people access to him where they where they can do

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Speaker 2: that for sure. And I think that I think that

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Speaker 2: we have that feeling when we could you know, they

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Speaker 2: open up themselves to us. So I'm going to share

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Speaker 2: my opinion, and I'm going to share how I feel,

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Speaker 2: and and and and isn't that symbiotic? Don't they work

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Speaker 2: that as well? If if he doesn't have an audience,

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Speaker 2: then he becomes irrelevant, right.

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Speaker 1: He's Yeah, it's the rose with the pedal and the thorns.

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Speaker 1: You can't like you walked in to be famous, but like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know where the line. I don't know where

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Speaker 1: the line is. And I take a lot of ship

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Speaker 1: and get beaten up pretty good too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny because I was I was

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Speaker 2: reading I've been reading some of the comments of people

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Speaker 2: have written after your podcast. Yeah, I'm trying to do

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Speaker 2: a little you know, due diligence before I come on here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And one thing I have to say, you definitely get

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Speaker 2: people talking, right, good, bad, angry, happy, hate, love, You

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Speaker 2: definitely get people talking. And the interesting thing and I

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Speaker 2: and I talk about this a lot in my practice,

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Speaker 2: and I ask everybody, you know, what's the opposite of hate?

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely you know, and they always say love, love

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Speaker 2: and hate opposites, and they're really not, you know, they're

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Speaker 2: they're very closely related. They're very strong emotions. You don't

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Speaker 2: love a little you love, right, and you don't hate,

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Speaker 2: you hate the they're like very close, right. So the

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Speaker 2: opposite of that is apathy. It's just not difference in difference.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think when you're in the public eye,

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Speaker 2: that's that's that's the worst indifference. Irrelevance is the worst, right,

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Speaker 2: So so it kind of works like, you know, are

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Speaker 2: these people in the reality are they really saying what

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Speaker 2: they're really feeling? Are they playing that game? As you say?

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Speaker 1: You know, you mean that that indifference meaning that the

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Speaker 1: people don't give a shit about you. Like the fact

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Speaker 1: that I get people heeded hating me or loving me

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Speaker 1: is doing is being successful and being a public person,

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Speaker 1: if they didn't give a shit at all, Yes, but

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Speaker 1: the public person needs to be indifferent and have apathy

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Speaker 1: means to like some I do. Like I was talking

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Speaker 1: to this guy, Tyler Cameron. He's a guy who is

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Speaker 1: from the Bachelorette. He's become very successful, he's beloved. He

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Speaker 1: hates the social media aspect. He said he got anxiety

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Speaker 1: for the first time ever, uh, because of reading comments

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Speaker 1: and things like that. And I would say that people

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Speaker 1: always ask me, and I think it might. I think this.

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Speaker 1: I think it has with my childhood and seeing a

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Speaker 1: lot of abuse I don't love. I get a little

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Speaker 1: anxiety when something's going sideways for me because it does happen,

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Speaker 1: because I do have an opinion. I'm out one of

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Speaker 1: these people just posting about flowers and jelly beans and rainbows.

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Speaker 1: But when that happens, I grab that wheel and like

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Speaker 1: I don't hold too tight and I don't hold too loose.

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Speaker 1: I just like I'm like, all right, we got something,

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Speaker 1: let's fucking deal with this. So I'm not a pert

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Speaker 1: or even though that when the Rachel thing, because I

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Speaker 1: took on a lot of hate, and her own you know,

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Speaker 1: team said to me, like, we appreciate what we saw.

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Speaker 1: You took a lot of heat, like they took a

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Speaker 1: lot of heat. But also one hundred percent of people

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Speaker 1: hated her. Now fifty percent of people hate, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe even though so they're happy, maybe even fewer. I

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Speaker 1: actually don't even think it's fifty percent. It's maybe thirty

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Speaker 1: percent or something twenty. But it helped her. It gave

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Speaker 1: her something to go, somewhere to go, and I have

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Speaker 1: evolved into a new conversation for she was sort of

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Speaker 1: stuck in like being in this mental you know facility.

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Speaker 1: But they said you took on a lot of heat,

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Speaker 1: which I did. But like when I get slapped in

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Speaker 1: those comments, it's like a ball, a tennis ball. I

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Speaker 1: just like I just I like I serve it, you know,

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Speaker 1: hit it, which is.

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Speaker 2: Healthy, which is which is good? You know. I like

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Speaker 2: to think that I equate things with I love to eat.

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Speaker 2: I'm a big eater, right, So I love chocolate. I

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Speaker 2: cann have chocolate all the time. There are people in

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Speaker 2: the world who I've met who actually don't like chocolate,

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Speaker 2: which I don't get. I don't understand. Yeah, although those

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Speaker 2: are the people I want to go out to dessert

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Speaker 2: with because then they're not gonna take mine and we're good, right.

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Speaker 1: So no, because they're gonna order some apple dessert. And

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Speaker 1: that's more annoying because you.

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Speaker 2: Don't get that it's fine, it's all.

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Speaker 1: No, you don't share. So that therapy.

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Speaker 2: There, right by time to be selfish when not having dessert,

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Speaker 2: especially chocolate. Right, So, Okay, as good as chocolate is,

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Speaker 2: as wonderful as chocolate is, even chocolate is not universally loved,

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Speaker 2: right and even as wonderful as you are and wonderful

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Speaker 2: as I am. Well, how can I be so narcissistic

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Speaker 2: to think that I'm as good as chocolate?

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Speaker 1: So I'm interesting.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to be universally loved. We have to

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Speaker 2: be okay with that. Yes, okay, that's fine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. It's a great because

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Speaker 1: chocolate's pretty fucking fabulous, So that's all great. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good one. But I like dark chocolate, you know.

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Speaker 2: As I've gotten older.

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Speaker 1: Dok, chocolate is yeah, I like, let's go all the way,

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Speaker 1: do it. So have you been watching the Danny Masterson stuff.

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Speaker 2: I've quite a little bit here and yes, okay, have

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Speaker 2: you actually watched?

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 2: I was really enthralled with the Leah Rimoni series.

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Speaker 1: Oh really yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: What a what a crusader? How brave?

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Speaker 1: Amazed? I agree, that's ballsy to talk about it. And

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Speaker 1: I know her. I met her when we were both

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Speaker 1: pas on Saved by the Bet. I mean, I was

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Speaker 1: sorry when I was a PA Unsaved by the Belt

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Speaker 1: and she was a guest actress and I met her

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Speaker 1: and she was very cool and she was in some

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Speaker 1: shitty car and I remember thinking she was rich because

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Speaker 1: she was on one week she was an actress, like

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Speaker 1: going on television on a show, and she said, if

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Speaker 1: eating tacos out of the back of my car is rich,

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Speaker 1: then I'm rich. And I've always liked her, I've always

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Speaker 1: respected her, and I actually a lot of people were

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Speaker 1: saying she should come on here because I've been talking

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Speaker 1: about I've been referencing her, and I know her. We

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Speaker 1: respect each other. Maybe you'll come on for a little

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Speaker 1: bit of it. If she comes on, because I didn't

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Speaker 1: know you were such a fan. Yeah, she's really amazing.

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Speaker 1: She's very real and yeah she said it. Once you

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Speaker 1: say something, it's amazing, like you then have the freedom

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Speaker 1: you've you've I've ripped the band aid off and now

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Speaker 1: she's like, you know, fire hydrant just coming out. But

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Speaker 1: this Danny Masterson thing, Oh, that's what I was gonna

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Speaker 1: ask you. Do you do you deal with people victims

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Speaker 1: of sexual abuse?

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Speaker 2: I have, yes.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So it was a very interesting ride I took

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Speaker 1: with this thing because a lot of things I learned

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Speaker 1: about from social media. It's like a snippet. It's not

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Speaker 1: something that was on my radar. Okay. So I think

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Speaker 1: that in the past I had heard that this guy

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Speaker 1: from that seventy show had been had violated women or

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Speaker 1: was accused of it, but it wasn't It just didn't

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Speaker 1: wasn't a story I was following. I don't think the

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Speaker 1: women had names or it just was something in the background.

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Speaker 1: So all of a sudden last week it becomes that

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Speaker 1: this guy is convicted, and literally I didn't remember when

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Speaker 1: I had first read it, and I did not know

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Speaker 1: this happened twenty years ago, but maybe you know. So

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Speaker 1: there's a separate conversation about these women and having to

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Speaker 1: endure this road of twenty years of torture in their minds,

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Speaker 1: and like it's this guy's running around and he's at

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Speaker 1: Starbucks and he's living a life, and he's acting on

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Speaker 1: a show with Ashton Kutcher and all the ranch and

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Speaker 1: all this stuff. But like when I first heard that

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Speaker 1: Ashton and Mela, who by the way, made this thing

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Speaker 1: much bigger, people are saying it's great almost what they did,

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Speaker 1: because it made this such a topic of awareness. So

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Speaker 1: even though people are very mad at them, they brought

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Speaker 1: awareness to something that people would have talked about for

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Speaker 1: two days and then stopped. So when I thought about

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Speaker 1: the mother contacting people that knew him to reduce a

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Speaker 1: sentence in and of itself. It made sense to me,

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Speaker 1: like it just the concept made sense. I didn't read

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Speaker 1: the stories about the girls. It wasn't human to me

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Speaker 1: or personal. It just was like and everybody went crazy.

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Speaker 1: And then I started doing a deeper look at it,

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Speaker 1: and Christina Ricci came out and said, you know, we

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Speaker 1: all know these guys that seem like awesome guys to us,

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Speaker 1: that do shitty things to other people. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that they're good people because they've been nice to us.

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Speaker 1: And there's so many of those guys in Hollywood that

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Speaker 1: I've met, like all the me too guys I've met,

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Speaker 1: really all of them. And then and then I was

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Speaker 1: watching other videos of people saying how the percentage of

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Speaker 1: convictions that actually happened, how small that is, And then

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Speaker 1: how small the percentage of people that actually report it

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Speaker 1: because they don't think, you know, and all these things

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Speaker 1: that we all already know they're going to be doubted,

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Speaker 1: and then a person, it's the burden on the person

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Speaker 1: to prove it. And so I did a full rotation

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Speaker 1: to be like, I fully get why everyone was so enraged,

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Speaker 1: because it's sort of belittling something that's so hard to

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Speaker 1: get done that these women fought for twenty years to

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Speaker 1: get done. So I just kind of wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about that whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Sure, sure, you know, the the damage that gets done

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Speaker 2: to victims is tremendous. It's tremendous. And it's not just

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Speaker 2: a physical it's that the emotional damage are wounds that

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Speaker 2: you know, really don't go away, get they change, they grow,

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Speaker 2: but the damage is tremendous because is it becomes such

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Speaker 2: a personal thing for them that they blame themselves right

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Speaker 2: or they find a lot how could this have been different?

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Speaker 2: What could I have done differently? They try to rewrite it.

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Speaker 2: You know, we all do that with certain when bad

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Speaker 2: things happen to us, we say to it, how could

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Speaker 2: I have avoided? What could have done differently? And to

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Speaker 2: make matters worse, they're told things many times and I

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Speaker 2: don't I can't say what has happened in these cases,

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Speaker 2: but many times they're told, think you deserve this, you

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Speaker 2: wanted this. Their bodies could have you know, betrayed them

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Speaker 2: and reacted in certain ways that think they want it,

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Speaker 2: even though the right So it's very confusing for victims

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00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: of this, because you know, if I didn't want this,

431
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 2: why did my body react to it? Or why do

432
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 2: I wear what I wore? Or you know that they

433
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: said that they they look at me in a certain way,

434
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 2: and which is sometimes okay, but not when it goes

435
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 2: over the edge.

436
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 1: Right, I mean before the line we're partying, we're drinking,

437
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 1: having fun, I was wearing a sexy top and then

438
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: it turned and like there's a line.

439
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: Before during after matter, right, it's just and.

440
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: Then why didn't I freak out and call the cops

441
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: a minute after? Like whatever?

442
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely absolutely, and and maybe didn't happen that way?

443
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 2: And look, you know, our brain does some fascinating things

444
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 2: when we're faced with trauma. Shuts off, right because they

445
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: don't doesn't necessarily want to see it or you know,

446
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 2: react to it that way, right, We want to shut

447
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 2: it down. So when we shut it down, there are

448
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 2: gaps in our memory. There are gaps and what's going

449
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,719
Speaker 2: to happen, And then we fill it in with what

450
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: we think would have been. But that's just a conjecture.

451
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 2: So then it's like, well, maybe I maybe I didn't

452
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 2: fight them, and maybe I didn't you know, say no

453
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 2: or and maybe it was. It was very clear. And

454
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 2: there's a responsibility that I think we all have in

455
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,959
Speaker 2: relationships to make sure that you know that we're healthy

456
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: and we're in a good place, and we're interested in

457
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 2: what's happening, and we all want that. But I think

458
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: what happens after sometimes is this lack of support that

459
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 2: people feel or that they imagine will happen. So they

460
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 2: don't share it, and they don't want anyone to know,

461
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 2: so they don't tell anybody because they're they're afraid that

462
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 2: people can say, well, you deserved it, or why did

463
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 2: you wear that, or why did you go to his householdlone?

464
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 2: Why did you go to a hotel room alone right

465
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 2: and when? Or why did you leave your drink unattended?

466
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: Don't you know we told you that to leave your

467
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 2: drink unattended. My girls went off to college. I taught

468
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: them this is how you hold your drink right, not

469
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 2: like this, like this, and if someone makes a mistake,

470
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 2: someone does this, then they may I messed up because

471
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 2: I held my drink wrong. And so this lack of

472
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: support for themselves that they give, and then they project

473
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 2: that to other people, thinking that they're not going to

474
00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: support them either it's damageing that abuse happens long longer,

475
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: all right, the effects have it. It's a ripple effect, right,

476
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: it happens so much longer and afterwards. So it's so

477
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: hard for people to come forward.

478
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,719
Speaker 1: Also for you to have to deal with proving it,

479
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: go back and find all the ema what happened there

480
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: and what time and the detail like it's on it's

481
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: dumped on the person that it happened to because they

482
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: have to figure it out.

483
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: And I had.

484
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: Experience with the situation where I had to be a

485
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: lawyer with multiple books and multiple you know, and the

486
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: burden is on you. And but what you were saying

487
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: is interesting. It's there's something that happens with people. Well

488
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 1: two things. One, there's like a reflex that you have

489
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: about the way that you feel about yourself that's not normal,

490
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: and you intellectually know that it's not right. Like let's

491
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: say for years someone told you you were disgusting or

492
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 1: something about you like or uh, you left the house

493
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: for fifteen minutes, so you're a bad parent or stuff like,

494
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: even though it's ridiculous that you know, but if someone

495
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: like tells you or does something to you, love long

496
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: enough you start you have like a reflex that thinks

497
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: that that's real, and it takes a long time to

498
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: shake that up. It's not something you can just have

499
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: even a professional say to you that's not correct, and

500
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: you're just gonna be like, okay, now, I think deffinitely.

501
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: It's like have Lovian, Yeah, well we we have a

502
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 2: confirmation bias, right, So you know, confirmation bias is super interesting,

503
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 2: and then it's it's it's pretty hard to buy out of,

504
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: to get out of. So the confirmation bias is if

505
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: I have a feeling about who I am, if I

506
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: have an idea about anything, and you can see that

507
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: with our political system right now, how separate our political

508
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: system is. So if I have a feeling about anything

509
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: about who I am, I only look at information that's

510
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: going to confirm that and I'm going to ignore any

511
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: information that might refute it. And so that can go

512
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: either way. So if I feel like I'm a piece

513
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 2: of shit, I'm going to find things. I'm going to

514
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 2: see things, eyes be wide open for evidence to support.

515
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: That ape.

516
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, or like yeah, I got a

517
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: speeding to I'm not a good person, or yeah, late,

518
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: I'm not a good person or whatever it is, or

519
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: I left my kid home for fifteen minutes, I'm not

520
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: a good person, and all these different things they build up,

521
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: and the fact that you know I'm doing this and

522
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: I'm doing that that is good and I'm taking care

523
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: of this. These people that are good fly out the window.

524
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: They don't matter because it doesn't conform to this confirmation

525
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 2: bias that I have, this bias I have that I'm

526
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 2: not good.

527
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 1: Well. I also thought about this thing being the victim

528
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: of any type of abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, any

529
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: kind of abuse that people don't always want to say

530
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: something because of how it affects other people around them.

531
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: How is it affecting your job and what they think

532
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: of you, How is it affecting if you have a

533
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: kid who's in school, How you'd like in any situation

534
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: in a family dynamic. I don't think that's discussed enough.

535
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: It's like, why didn't you say something? Or you should

536
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: use your voice, or this person finally opened up, and

537
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: that's some people hold things in, Like some people are

538
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: physically abused, but they don't want to embarrass their kid

539
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: and say it because will then know that one parent

540
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: or emotionally abuse it because of the kid like and

541
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: while it's great to protect kids, it's hard to know

542
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: what line to follow. Are you going to open your

543
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: mouth because you also can help other people, or are

544
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: you going to put you one child and what they

545
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: might think over all the other people. There are a

546
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: lot of things to navigate. And just even with this

547
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: these girls with the Danny Masterson thing, because they were

548
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: affecting their parents and the religion their parents. In this situation,

549
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: the girl is estrange now from her mother because her

550
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: mother's in scientology and you're trained that you're not to report.

551
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and from what I understand, also scientology doesn't believe

552
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: in psychology, so you couldn't go from you know, from

553
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 2: mental health assistance either.

554
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: Oh wow is that true? Wow?

555
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 2: I believe. I believe. So you know that that kind

556
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: of stuck out on me. He's like, oh, well, I

557
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: guess I'm not included. I'm not invited. Yeah.

558
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, wow, so was It's a very very eye

559
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: opening thing. And also what it would feel like for

560
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: twenty years for the girls. Like I said, the guy

561
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: was walking free. Like I said, He's going to Starbucks,

562
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: ordering a latte, living a life. He has a wife,

563
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: he has kids. He's just living a life. I'm sure

564
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't as easy since he was accused, but a

565
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: lot of people, you're a free person, you know.

566
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: It's it's even more than that for them, I would think,

567
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 2: because people who are traumatized and they have abusers, they

568
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: see them in the corner of their eye, in the

569
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 2: shadows all the time, right, They see them constantly. When

570
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 2: they're not there, they see them, they feel it.

571
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I.

572
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 2: Can't imagine what that must have been like for these

573
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: women to not only have that, but also this tremendous,

574
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: tremendously large and powerful, wealthy organization behind him. Jesus, Yeah,

575
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 2: they follow me too, are they? You know? Now? Who's that?

576
00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: And who's Oh wow, now you're wrong, right wow? From

577
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: a house by the way, they could be thinking. They

578
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: could still be thinking that now.

579
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: They absolutely could still be thinking that now. So that's

580
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying a lot of times, this this

581
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: type of abuse, the sexual abuse assault, it's not a

582
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: one time thing. Even if it is a one time,

583
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: it continues, it continues, and and that's what makes this

584
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: so damaging. It's so difficult to manage and to grow from.

585
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

586
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that cross is gender. It's not just you

587
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: know men, men have been sexually assaulted also, right, and

588
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: it follows them as well. It's difficult for them as well. Right,

589
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: So it's it's not we don't we don't hear so

590
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:38,239
Speaker 2: much about it.

591
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: That's even worse because that's even more secretive. That's going

592
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: to be worse.

593
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: You hear about something doesn't mean it's not there.

594
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that's got to because that's more that's a

595
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: different level of shame. It's not as common, So that's

596
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: a different level of shame. Yeah, that's that's very interesting,

597
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: and I would imagine that they feel some level of vindication, validation.

598
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: And people always say, if you're holding on to anger

599
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: is like drinking poison, hope the other person dies. I

600
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: think in situations it is, but I think in those

601
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: situations there's a comfort to it. I think when you're like,

602
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: you know that that ultimately that person got what they deserve,

603
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: and like you kind of live in that. I don't

604
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: know what about that.

605
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: That's a good question. That's hard to say, you know,

606
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: and hard to say what's healthier what's not? I guess

607
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: I guess the proof will be in the pudding. For them,

608
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 2: And that's probably a very personal thing. When you said that,

609
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: I thought back. I once saw an interview of a

610
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: Holocaust survivor and it was this Obviously, she was an

611
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: older woman and she had suffered immensely in a concentration

612
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: and concentration camp that she's five, and she said, if

613
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: I had the opportunity to talk to the commandant, I

614
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: would forgive him. I would forget. I don't want to

615
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: hold on to that hate. If I hold on to

616
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: that hate, it's going to keep me there, and it's

617
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: going to keep me miserable and angry and upset and

618
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: sad and all these things. And I just want to

619
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: forgive so I can move on. And God, I mean, listen,

620
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: god blasphem. If you're asking me if I could do

621
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: something like that.

622
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: No, yeah, And I think there are levels like active mean,

623
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: hate is different than like smug, being smug, like reveling

624
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 1: in the fact that someone got with a fucking deserve,

625
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: because that I like, I would be like that if

626
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: I were those girls, and I would be like that

627
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: forever and there would be no amount, but I wouldn't

628
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: be like every day thinking of that. But that's how

629
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: I feel. That's why I was so wrong to even

630
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: entertain that letter and what Mila and Ashton did, because

631
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: I then put myself in the position and I'd want

632
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: him to get the worst possible treatment in jail, and

633
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want him to die because it wouldn't be

634
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: enough suffering. So maybe that woman is way more evolved

635
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: than I am. But well, I see that change.

636
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 2: I think she's way more involved than most of us,

637
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: you know. I think, say, listen, we would never never

638
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: too late for us to evolve and to grow right

639
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: and too And I think that that's the ultimate thing

640
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: is apathy, is that you know what I'm You're not

641
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: part of my life anymore. You can't hurt me anymore,

642
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: You're not important to me anymore. Yeah, that's right, and

643
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: that there's something to aspire to, right. That's hard, that's

644
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: hard to do, hard to do.

645
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I think there's a whole thing though, too,

646
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: with like it happens in obviously hedge funds and lawyers

647
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: in every industry. It happens in industry. I've seen it

648
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: firsthand with entertainment. People really feel that they're untouchable and

649
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: the power and the money and the smugness and the

650
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein types and all of those guys that you know,

651
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: I've been I've been to a dinner with Harvey Weinstein

652
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: where he's bragging about how he you know, Michelle and

653
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: Barack Obama used to call him at night and have

654
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: him come to the you know, send over a movie

655
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: for them to screen late night at the White House.

656
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: And he's like, and Leo, who was sitting right there

657
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: was and Leo and he and I when we did

658
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: this movie and we won the award in j Lo

659
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: and Best and he loved it all like name dropping

660
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: and Gwynneth and this one, and like he thought he

661
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: was so hot. Ship right, Well, how much you talk

662
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: about cancel culture, it's not really in your business. You're

663
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: not really talking to entertainers.

664
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: There is definitely that conflict that we're in, right, We're

665
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: supposed to be so open and free and be you

666
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: and body positivity and all that, but yet there's a

667
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: whole clash of other things. And and I think that

668
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: we we we are going through as a as a society,

669
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: as as people kind of going through this growing pains

670
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: of who we want to be and how we want

671
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: to be or how accepting do we want to be

672
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 2: really and that is that push pull. It's hard, It's

673
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: definitely hard, and it's it's so sad. I heard something

674
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: on the media the other day that family members aren't

675
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: talking to each other because of politics, right, because of health? Yeah,

676
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 2: and how awful is that that you're that you're a fan,

677
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 2: you lose a family member because you don't agree politically

678
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 2: with their guy. I think I think that so much

679
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 2: of it if we look at why now, right, Why

680
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: is it now? Why is it not before? Because I

681
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: think we've gone through things like this before, but it's

682
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: it does feel different now. It feels more severe. You know,

683
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: you know, you say you are what you eat, right,

684
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: If you eat healthy, you're going to be healthy. Well,

685
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: I think that we have to be very careful what

686
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: we digest in the media, what news we're digesting. And

687
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: this twenty four news cycle.

688
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: What's no one does everyone says that was what I'm

689
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: saying about reality TV. You fight in the ocean. No

690
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: one's going to do that.

691
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: That's the problem, right, because because then we we just

692
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 2: listen to these talking heads that feed us information and

693
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 2: we don't really think critically about it.

694
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, But first of all, it used to be that

695
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: journalists had to have multiple sources that were verified. Right now,

696
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: anybody can just say. A source said, if you're reading

697
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair or like People magazine or The New York Times,

698
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: they have to have legitimate sources. They have a legal department.

699
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: I don't know why it differs and why everybody doesn't

700
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: have to have that. But if you're reading other magazines

701
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: or blog, there's no A source said, you could be

702
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: the sore. I could be, like anybody could be. So

703
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: a source said, who's usually their publicists? Their sister, their mother,

704
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: their brother, their publicist, right, their their agent or.

705
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: Famous line, what's the famous preamble to any A lot

706
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 2: of people are.

707
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: Saying they they they well know, but TikTok now what's

708
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: going on is TikTok and Instagram their journalist? These are

709
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: citizens journalists. These are people and a lot of them

710
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: are smart, and a lot of them do their research.

711
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: You know what they're talking about, but a lot of

712
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: them don't. So people are just sitting here and they're reporters.

713
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: They become reporters, but they have a million followers. They're

714
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: reporting on different types of news, entertainment, politics, cars, watches, whatever.

715
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: But there their people I listen to what some of

716
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: them say. It's insane, So I guess you're right. It's

717
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: the same thing with NoHo to trust.

718
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: I don't listen to. But there's no nutrition label on

719
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 2: things that we read, right.

720
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: Well, no, and also it's confirmation bias. You're listening to

721
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: people that say things you want to hear back.

722
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: To your point, absolutely, and that's too.

723
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: Well, that's why when we were growing up, not to

724
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: be like back and mind it. When we were growing up,

725
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: the news wasn't what it is now, where you'll have

726
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: like a person on CNN and be like like about

727
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: something about about Trump or over on Fox News, they're

728
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: like chuckling, you know, like how Megan Megan Kelly were

729
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,479
Speaker 1: like that moron. You know, like it's not it wasn't

730
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: like that we were growing up. It was more, you know, moderate,

731
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't like it's just you turn on to Fox

732
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: if you want people to bash everybody on CNN or

733
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 1: Biden and just make fun of him, and you turn

734
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: on to CNN and to see people make fun of Trump.

735
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: It's crazy.

736
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah, and it's not and

737
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: it's not just us anymore because where you know, there

738
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: are other foreign nationals we're getting involved, right, And who's

739
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: social media is so interesting? Who's real, who's not?

740
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 3: What?

741
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: Our bots what aren't? Right? So where are we getting

742
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: our information and getting your information from. I have had

743
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: conversations with people, and sometimes I'll engage up my patients

744
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 2: and you know, just and I and I do it

745
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 2: with playful banter. I try to as much as I

746
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: possibly can. And I'm a big teaser, so I'll tease

747
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: them about it. But when I hear them say certain things,

748
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 2: well I'll quote somebody. I'll say, that's really interesting. Where'd

749
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 2: you get that? Let's go to that quote. Let's find

750
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: that quote. Let's look for that study that they quoted.

751
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 2: Let's find we find the study. Let's read the study.

752
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: I'll read it with you. Well, I say that quote

753
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: is from a lot of times that the quote is

754
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 2: from the hypothesis of the study. It's not the reason

755
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 2: the study. And you can say anything you want and

756
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: a hypothesis because it's a question.

757
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: Well, when we were growing up, I think that things

758
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: like college, the concept of going to college and the

759
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: purity of that process seemed legitimate, and so the concept

760
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: of politics seemed not fair. It was always like mud slinging,

761
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: but you kind of thought there were two candidates. You

762
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: could really get an understanding from the three channels on

763
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: television of who they were, and it wasn't like a

764
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: lot of propaganda and marketing. And the reason I say

765
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: both of those areas is because drugs, big pharma, all

766
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,479
Speaker 1: of it. But like with college, the colleges that when

767
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: I was in college were for morons, I mean you

768
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: literally they were known that you would have to just

769
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: sign your name on the SAT and you could get

770
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: in are now good schools. I don't think that the

771
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: education is that different. I think it's the money and

772
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: the marketing. So what I'm saying is like you're voting,

773
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: but you're voting based on marketing campaigns because the more

774
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: things you've heard about something, you're just it's just like

775
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: a commercial. So it's like, why are you buying the

776
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: air mez bag over the Chanel bag because of the

777
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: marketing campaign, like it's not because of the actual construction

778
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: of the leather. So I think it's scary because people

779
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: don't realize that it's not that easy to really get

780
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: good information because it's marketing. Marketing is massive. Everything is marketing.

781
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I'm proud of saying some of a girl, dad,

782
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 2: I know those two bags.

783
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: Oh good, good, good good. Your wife would want you

784
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: to know too. So what do you think about people

785
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: who've gone people who are going through a nasty breakup

786
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: or uh, infidelity or something really toxic living under the

787
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: same roof? What circumstances and what circumstances Would that be

788
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: a good idea?

789
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: Would they be a good idea?

790
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

791
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: Not too many. I hope it's a big roof, A

792
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 2: big what a big roof?

793
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: Oh big?

794
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's hard. You know, it's it's

795
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: interesting because I have been involved with high conflict families. Yes,

796
00:39:55,480 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: and you see this dynamic that occurs where they they

797
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 2: it may be both, maybe one party, it may it

798
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 2: may not be both, but they don't want to let go.

799
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: They don't want to let go. Remember what I said,

800
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: the opposite of love isn't isn't hate? Right, They want

801
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: to be relevant and they want to stay in that

802
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: person's life. So if I can't get you to love me,

803
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: I'll get you to hate me because I'm still I'm

804
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: still getting you.

805
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: You're still in the game, still on the ride, I'm.

806
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: Still in it. I'm still in it, and you're still

807
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 2: in it with me, and that's really difficult to break out.

808
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 2: You know what. You define yourself as part of that

809
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 2: relationship and really in that relationship, and you never want

810
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: to leave it, and even when you hate that person,

811
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 2: you don't want to leave it because they're part of

812
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 2: your life and you don't want to give that out.

813
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: Now that happens with kids, without kids, with business, without business,

814
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: with finances with it, with finances are involved or not,

815
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 2: it's very hard people to give that up. They don't

816
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 2: want to more in that loss for whatever reason. And

817
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 2: then we could definitely talk about that more, because that's

818
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: a lot, that's a big that's a that's a lot.

819
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, because for me, I feel like if

820
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: you genuinely, if it's really emotionally unhealthy for you and

821
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: there's been something really toxic, I my experience is that

822
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: the only reason that someone would stay would be for

823
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: financial reasons they can't afford to leave, or that there's

824
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: that abandonment issue with the courts will say that one

825
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: party abandoned by leaving the house, because you're not.

826
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 2: Discounting for sure, right absolutely, but sometimes psychologically there are

827
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 2: other things involved and then the personal involved. We didn't

828
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 2: be aware of that.

829
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say, it's underlying.

830
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: Ok. I'd love to talk more about that future.

831
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Okay, Well, yeah, there's there's divorced stuff. I've dabbled

832
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: in talking about doing a divorce show, so you know,

833
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: we could talk about that more, like different divorce topics.

834
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: Thank you, Matt, talking you did great? Oh, thank you,

835
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: thank you great, really good conversation.

836
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 2: Excellent take care.

837
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: Doctor Matt was great. I really you know, I think

838
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: it's a dangerous game for people like me to just

839
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: opine if I have influence and if people are gonna

840
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: think what I'm saying is true, and I know people

841
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: will argue with me. And I'm not saying he knows everything,

842
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: but he's a trained professional h on a lot of

843
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: the matters in life and popular culture that we talk about.

844
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: So I think it's good to weigh in with someone

845
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: about some of the things that I've talked about with

846
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: you and just check in. You know, it's it's good

847
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: you hear your own voice, the voices inside your own head.

848
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: That's a very dangerous game. So even and when we

849
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: talk about things that are in popular culture, it's not

850
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: like to gossip, it's what does it mean? Meaning? The

851
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: Ashton Kutcher and Mila thing made me learn something. Maybe

852
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: the Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas divorce made me learn something.

853
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: Maybe the way Megan and Harry act in their lives

854
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: lives make me learn something. The Kardashian what you know?

855
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: So it's good to use these popular culture sure of

856
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: things that we all know about and think we have

857
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: knowledge about to learn. So I think that that's you know,

858
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: there weren't the advand of Pump of it all, all

859
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: of it, So I thought it was great