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Speaker 1: Disclaimer here, guys, I did something wrong with my audio

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Speaker 1: in this intro and this outro, so it sounds a

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Speaker 1: little wonky, and I apologize for that, but I promise

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Speaker 1: you the interview itself sounds great.

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Speaker 2: It sounds great.

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Speaker 3: Trust me. Trust me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you, do you think.

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Speaker 2: That one person has all the answers?

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Speaker 4: Don't?

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Speaker 1: Welcome to trust Me? The podcast about cult, extreme belief

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Speaker 1: and the abusive power from two TikTokers who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I'm Lola Blanc I really I'm not a TikToker, you guys, And.

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Speaker 4: I'm Megan Elizabeth and I am a TikToker. I've made

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Speaker 4: one of them and it got. How many views did

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Speaker 4: our TikTok get?

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Speaker 1: Lola, I think we got five hundred.

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Speaker 5: Yes, we're professional TikTokers.

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Speaker 1: As we joined TikTok, you know you should probably follow us.

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Speaker 1: We're a trust me cult podcasts. Anyway. Today our guest

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Speaker 1: is Torabon Schrager. She is an activist and author of

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Speaker 1: a book called Amish Girl in Manhattan, so called because

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Speaker 1: that's right. She is a former Amish girl who probably

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Speaker 1: lives in Manhattan. Definitely did. At some point, Ora is

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Speaker 1: gonna tell us about what it was like growing up

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Speaker 1: with no electricity or indoor bathrooms or cars, speaking the

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Speaker 1: Amish language, and what rumspringa actually means.

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Speaker 4: We'll also discuss her tumultuous relationship with her mother, how

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Speaker 4: some of the practices intended to not spoil the children

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Speaker 4: can involve corporal punishment, and we'll touch on some of

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Speaker 4: the abuse she experienced, to be continued in part two

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Speaker 4: next week.

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Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, I'm so excited about this episode. I have

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Speaker 1: been curious about the Amish lifestyle for so long. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I got a lot of insight that unexpected things,

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Speaker 1: you know, things I didn't think I would learn.

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Speaker 5: I'm obsessed with Amish life.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I was so jealous of it when I was little,

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Speaker 4: because I had to kind of dress like the Amish

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Speaker 4: and like look like the Amish. But I couldn't live

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Speaker 4: in a town in the middle of nowhere with other people.

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Speaker 5: I had to like go to normal school, and I

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Speaker 5: was just like, make me Amish.

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Speaker 1: God, yeah, you wanted to be Amish, not just dress

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Speaker 1: normal at the normal sch.

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Speaker 4: Oh well, I mean, you know, that's just having the

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Speaker 4: whole she bang. I didn't think that far, and I

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Speaker 4: didn't think about just not being a cold.

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Speaker 5: I was like, just be but no one can see you.

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Speaker 1: I mean I I sort of like fantasized about being

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Speaker 1: Amish for like a week of my childhood, just because

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Speaker 1: I loved those books The Box Car Children.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember those books?

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Speaker 5: Henry Violet? Yeah, I remember is.

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Speaker 1: Better than mine already. I don't remember their names.

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Speaker 4: Benny the youngest is Benny, Henry's the oldest, Violet's the

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Speaker 4: hot one, and then there's one other sister who no

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Speaker 4: one cared about.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that was the sister I cared about,

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Speaker 1: but you know who knows. But I loved this idea

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, having to survive and like make

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Speaker 1: your own way and like let your own little fires.

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Speaker 4: On the back pit that they went to to like

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Speaker 4: get the you know, they made like a little running

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Speaker 4: water thing out of an old whatever, and they kept

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Speaker 4: going to the dump and cleaning shit, and I was

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Speaker 4: like so in.

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Speaker 1: I know, it sounded so fun to me. We are

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Speaker 1: not trying to minimize that the lifestyle that some people

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Speaker 1: choose to have, but as a child, it seemed very

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Speaker 1: appealing to me.

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Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying, oh, yeah, it's survivalists.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, anyway, please tell me, okay, okay, before we get

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Speaker 1: into our interview, what is the culties thing that's happened

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Speaker 1: to you this week?

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Speaker 4: Okay, so it's kind of ironic, but the cultiest thing

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Speaker 4: that's happened to me this week is actually me trying

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Speaker 4: to take a little bit of control back and get

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Speaker 4: help for being in a cult when I was younger.

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Speaker 5: So I'm interviewing some therapists.

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Speaker 4: A lot of them are cult specialists, but then a

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Speaker 4: lot of them say that their way is the only

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Speaker 4: right way.

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Speaker 5: So oh, very weird.

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Speaker 1: Oh when we are not recording, I'm dying to know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who it is?

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Speaker 4: I mean it's nobody famous, it's nobody. I'm just doing

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Speaker 4: research on the internet.

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Speaker 5: Have you heard of it?

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Speaker 3: But no?

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Speaker 6: What is that?

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Speaker 4: But also something cool happened from TikTok which was kind

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Speaker 4: of culty esque, which was I found a girl from

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Speaker 4: my religion that I was raised in and she started

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Speaker 4: a group chat with like fifty people who left. So

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Speaker 4: now I have a good cult chat going on of peoples.

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Speaker 1: Got many people are in there? I like dozens.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a good chunk.

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Speaker 1: That's so fucking cool, Megan.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really exciting.

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Speaker 1: And for the people who don't know what group she's

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Speaker 1: referring to, it's the two by twos or the Truth

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Speaker 1: Truth they're referred to exactly. Yeah, I think that's really

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Speaker 1: great and I'm proud of you for doing that.

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Speaker 5: Thank you. How about you, what's the cultiest thing that

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Speaker 5: happened to you this week?

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Speaker 1: Well, mine is sort of an extension of what I

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Speaker 1: talked about last week. So I was having some health issues.

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Speaker 1: I was having some recurring problems, and I was talking

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Speaker 1: about how, like, oh man, I would do anything, you know,

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Speaker 1: I could see how I would join a cult given

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Speaker 1: this situation that I'm in. Well, this week, my brain

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Speaker 1: took it a step further and it decided that it

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Speaker 1: would make me panic about said physical symptoms. And I had,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, my very first panic attack.

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Speaker 5: Ooh they're bad, They're bad.

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Speaker 1: And it lasted like two and a half days. It

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Speaker 1: was like in and out, and the only thing that

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Speaker 1: only after being with somebody for a few hours and

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Speaker 1: like trying really really hard to focus and trying really

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Speaker 1: really hard to concentrate on what they were saying, would

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Speaker 1: I come back down, but then as soon as I

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Speaker 1: was alone again, it would like immediately happen again. And

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Speaker 1: it's like nothing I've ever experienced. I just like didn't

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Speaker 1: know that my brain could do this. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not a like I'm a pretty healthy,

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Speaker 1: well adjusted person. Like what I experienced I've learned is

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Speaker 1: called derealization.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what this is?

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Speaker 1: Tell me well, shout out to bo Burnham because he

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Speaker 1: put it in his song Googling derealization hating what do fine?

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Speaker 2: And is now special?

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Speaker 1: Which is amazing, by the way. It is when the

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Speaker 1: world doesn't seem real to you and you feel like

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Speaker 1: totally disconnected from your body and like everything that you're

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Speaker 1: looking at is like through Different people describe it differently.

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Speaker 1: Some people describe it as like looking at your life

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Speaker 1: through a TV screen. For me, I was like, there's

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Speaker 1: like a window in front of me and I can't

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Speaker 1: like get into my body, Like it was hard to

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Speaker 1: understand what people were saying. It was so hard to focus.

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Speaker 1: And yesterday it just like culminated in me. My friend

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Speaker 1: was coming over already, Frenchie, and we were supposed to

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Speaker 1: work on something, and I was like I think I

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Speaker 1: have to go to the hospital because I think something's

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Speaker 1: like actually wrong with me. So she facetimes me and

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Speaker 1: I'm just like.

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Speaker 2: There's something wrong with.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I gotta go to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: Anyway. Long story short, health insurance sucks. I was never

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Speaker 1: seen by anyone. But what did happen was that my

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Speaker 1: girlfriend's like I got to sit with a couple of them,

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Speaker 1: and one of them, dan and has experienced this quite frequently,

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Speaker 1: and she was like, this is normal, this is what

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Speaker 1: this is, like, It's okay, it's temporary, this is not like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're not dying.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, are you sure?

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Speaker 4: It's impossible to believe, Like if nobody's ever had a

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Speaker 4: panic attack, have so much patience with the people in

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Speaker 4: your life who have it, because they are unbelievable. They

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Speaker 4: are relentless dickheads of a feeling that you can't think

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Speaker 4: your way out of.

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Speaker 5: It's pretty wild.

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Speaker 1: Whoa yes, And I was like, So then I was

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Speaker 1: with Danin and au Vitah. We were all talking and

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Speaker 1: we were talking about EMDR and how I should go

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Speaker 1: they've been going. We also end up talking about like

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Speaker 1: healers and you know, like Eastern medicine and like also

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Speaker 1: some very new agy like stuff that I would generally

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Speaker 1: think is bullshitty, but I was like, oh, I fucking

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Speaker 1: get it, like even more than I got it last week,

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Speaker 1: because so much of what's happening is just like, because

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Speaker 1: I believe that I'm stuck, Like that is what's making

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Speaker 1: me stuck, And all it takes to actually get out

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Speaker 1: of it is to stop believing that you're stuck. But

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Speaker 1: how do you make yourself stop believing? You just need

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Speaker 1: like something that functions as a placebo basically, So like

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Speaker 1: if that happens again, like I'll take a fucking spiritual healer.

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Speaker 1: I don't give a shit whatever its eggs, little.

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Speaker 4: Little side note, I do. I totally believe in all

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Speaker 4: that stuff. So just for listeners, I take the opposite view.

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Speaker 4: Acupuncture is magic.

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Speaker 5: You should go do that.

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Speaker 1: The thing is like, whether they're real or not, they

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Speaker 1: do work for people, and whether that's just a magical

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Speaker 1: thing or a psychological thing, I think is essentially irrelevant

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Speaker 1: as long as no harm is being done, you know.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I found these great. This is not this

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Speaker 1: is not an advertisement, This is just what happened. I

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Speaker 1: went to whole foods. I found these like lists of

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Speaker 1: supplements that have actual studies done about how they can

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Speaker 1: alleviate anxiety, some of which are comparable to actual prescription pills.

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Speaker 1: I got a fucking supplement called anxiety tea yep, and

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Speaker 1: that shit helped so much. So if you have this problem,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying herbs herbs can help. Nice herbs and

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Speaker 1: friends or hashtag herbs and friends yep.

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Speaker 2: So that was my experience this week.

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Speaker 1: That was an overshare. But you know what, that's what

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Speaker 1: I'm here for you, guys.

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Speaker 5: Hey, colts overshare.

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Speaker 1: Colts overshare sounds like something to do with the singer share,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know exactly what. Anyway, speaking of colts overshare,

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Speaker 1: let's talk to Tora Bonchreeger. Now, yeah, yeah, all right,

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Speaker 1: here we go. If you have your own story of

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Speaker 1: being in a cult or a high control group, or

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Speaker 1: if you've had an experience with manipulation or abuse of

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Speaker 1: power you'd like to share, leave us a message on

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Speaker 1: our hotline number at five one three nine hundred two

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Speaker 1: nine five five four, shoot.

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Speaker 4: Us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome Tora Bontreeger. So nice to have you

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Speaker 1: here today?

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you were born into an Amish community in Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: Can you give us just like a base rundown of

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Speaker 1: what that looked like in terms of lifestyle. If we

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Speaker 1: showed up to that community today, what would we see.

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Speaker 3: Well, the way that I was raised, I was born

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Speaker 3: into one of the strictest traditional Amish families, and that

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Speaker 3: meant that we didn't have running hot water, only cold water.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have indoor bathrooms. We had to go to

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Speaker 3: an outdoor toilet even during winters when it was forty

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Speaker 3: below zero or felt that way. And then our mode

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Speaker 3: of transportation was a horse and buggy, and we couldn't

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Speaker 3: have cameras and no family portraits, so I don't have

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Speaker 3: pictures of myself when I was a baby or any

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Speaker 3: of my ancestors. We also speak English as a second language,

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Speaker 3: and that language is Amish, and we don't speak English

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Speaker 3: very fluently. I sound a lot different now than I

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Speaker 3: used to twenty five years ago.

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Speaker 1: Tell me more about that. The language is Amish. Can

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Speaker 1: you say something in Amish?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Ves video obviously saut city in Amish.

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Speaker 5: Oh is this German at all, or is it just

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Speaker 5: a completely.

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Speaker 3: It's not German. For sociopolitical criteria, it meets that. And

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Speaker 3: originally it was a dialect of a certain part of Germany,

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Speaker 3: but over three to four hundred years of being in

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Speaker 3: a different country, a different culture, it's evolved into its

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Speaker 3: own language. So it meets all the socio political criteria

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Speaker 3: for being its own language. There are languages like certain

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Speaker 3: Nordic languagests. I forget which one Swedish and Danish or

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Speaker 3: Swedish and something else. I always forget that's classified as

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Speaker 3: its own language. But they can actually understand each other.

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Speaker 3: That's a socio political criteria. But the difference between German,

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Speaker 3: standard German and Amish is so different that I can't

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Speaker 3: carry on a conversation in standard German.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay.

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Speaker 3: And when I speak to my German speaking friends, they

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Speaker 3: can't understand me, unless maybe some of them who are

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Speaker 3: linguists or happen to be maybe from this old part

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Speaker 3: of Germany, they can understand some of it. But even so,

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Speaker 3: it meets the criteria to be considered its own language.

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Speaker 3: And so that's one of my life's mission is to

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Speaker 3: get the language recognize and I hate it when people

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Speaker 3: say we speak Pennsylvania Dutch, or they pooh poo us

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Speaker 3: or me specifically for saying we have our own language.

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Speaker 3: It's a way to take away my identity and my

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Speaker 3: heritage and to basically erase that and say what I

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Speaker 3: think about myself or identify as is insignificant.

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Speaker 2: Right, what did you say to us?

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Speaker 3: What do you want me to tell you in Amish?

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Speaker 2: Nice?

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Speaker 5: How many brothers and sisters did you have growing up?

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Speaker 3: I'm the oldest of eleven, and three of them were

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Speaker 3: born after I escape, so I didn't get to really

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Speaker 3: know them. I saw them a couple times during the

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Speaker 3: first ten or so years that I would go back

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Speaker 3: every so often to see my brothers and sisters. But

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen or spoken to anyone like since twenty twelve.

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Speaker 3: Pretty much.

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Speaker 1: For someone who doesn't really know anything about how much people?

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Speaker 1: Why can't they do electricity? What is the belief behind

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Speaker 1: that do electricity?

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Speaker 2: Use electricity?

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Speaker 3: The reason I was given when I was younger was well,

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Speaker 3: the Bible says, so that's why we can't have electricity,

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Speaker 3: or we have to use a horse and booking instead

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Speaker 3: of a car. And when I got older, it still

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Speaker 3: didn't make sense to me. So I thought, okay, I'll

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Speaker 3: read the Bible for myself. It must be in there, right,

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Speaker 3: I want to see where it says you can't have electricity.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, they definitely knew what electricity was when the

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Speaker 1: Bible is written.

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Speaker 3: For sure, exactly exactly. And the verse I was given

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Speaker 3: or cited as this is why we can't have all

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Speaker 3: these things we can't have. To me, I interpreted that

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Speaker 3: verse within the context of that chapter or whatever. In

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Speaker 3: my eleven year old brain was, oh, Jesus is just

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Speaker 3: saying you shouldn't be attached to material things, right, And

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Speaker 3: that was, you know, actually a very like Buddhist way

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Speaker 3: of looking at things. And I of course never even

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Speaker 3: heard of Buddhism at that time, but that was just,

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Speaker 3: you know, how my brain worked, was, Okay, I think

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Speaker 3: there's a difference between being attached to material things versus

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Speaker 3: having material things, right. And I will just say it

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Speaker 3: for the record. I don't subscribe to Christianity or any religions.

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Speaker 3: So if I say Jesus said this, Jesus said that, Please, No,

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Speaker 3: I don't. I'm not a Jesus worshiper.

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Speaker 1: Right, great, so no me neither, man. I actually have

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Speaker 1: this question. I saw you answered it in one of

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Speaker 1: these articles. But all of the communities are different little worlds, right,

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Speaker 1: Like there's not like an overarching like this is how

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Speaker 1: you do Amish, Like did you know other people who

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Speaker 1: who had a completely different way of living?

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Speaker 2: What's the difference?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So in terms of the Amish, there's a range

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Speaker 3: of traditional Amish. So this is another thing that I'm

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Speaker 3: working on, Like part of my life's work and part

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Speaker 3: of the work of my nonprofit, the Amish Heritage Foundation,

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Speaker 3: is defining these things, putting definitions and descriptions around what

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Speaker 3: is Amish, the language and all of that, and what

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Speaker 3: is traditional Amish. When you hear the word Amish and

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Speaker 3: pop culture just generally, it's referencing the traditional Amish and

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Speaker 3: the traditional Amish. The three things that define that for

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Speaker 3: sure is not being allowed to have electricity, not being

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Speaker 3: allowed to have cameras and take family portraits because some

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Speaker 3: people think there's a difference, and not being allowed to

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Speaker 3: drive with cars like motorized vehicles, having to use horses

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Speaker 3: and buggies. So that's traditional Amish. And within that range,

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Speaker 3: there's a difference from how I was born into not

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Speaker 3: having like running water and indoor bathrooms to all the

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Speaker 3: way to where you have indoor bathrooms, you have running

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Speaker 3: hot water. You're allowed to have bicycles to you know,

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Speaker 3: get around with. And you also are even allowed to

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Speaker 3: have electricity in your place of business as long as

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Speaker 3: it's solar powered you know the generator, wow, not powered

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Speaker 3: by the electric grid. And so that's on the extreme,

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Speaker 3: you know, liberal range, end of the range.

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Speaker 4: Are you guys allowed to like visit each other in

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Speaker 4: like different communities and are mingle Like, yeah, some.

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Speaker 3: Of these questions. I still need to get answers about

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Speaker 3: these questions myself, and I'll get to that in just

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Speaker 3: a second. But if you are born in the Amish

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Speaker 3: traditional Amish, and when I say Amish, I mean traditional Amish,

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Speaker 3: I don't mean New Order Amish or Beechy Amish or

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Speaker 3: Amish Men and I or all the other Amish. Right, So,

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Speaker 3: if you're born into the Amish church, you're not supposed

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Speaker 3: to lead the Amish Church. Ever. You don't have a choice,

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Speaker 3: even though they say you have a choice, that's your destiny.

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Speaker 3: You have no say in your future. And even if

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Speaker 3: you move to like a more modern end of the spectrum,

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Speaker 3: you're going to get lots of grief from family, friends,

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Speaker 3: or community in the strict end of the spectrum, right,

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Speaker 3: depending on who they are, what their personal temperament is, right,

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Speaker 3: But it's generally the ones who are the strictest look

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Speaker 3: down on the ones who are the most liberal as

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Speaker 3: being too English. English is anybody who's not Amish, including

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Speaker 3: Chinese and Germans and you know anybody English.

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Speaker 2: Funny, Yeah, like means muggle, Like yeah, a different Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So what's that word that starts with an arm?

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Speaker 4: So sorry, I'm forgetting it that when you're like eighteen

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Speaker 4: or whatever, you go on your what's it called.

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Speaker 3: Spring up rooms spring But that's another major myth, another

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Speaker 3: like myth bust that I have to do.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's not a real thing.

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Speaker 3: Rumspringer is a word that literally means running around, and

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Speaker 3: it's just pointing to a period of time from age

360
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Speaker 3: sixteen or seventeen, depending on the community that you live in,

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Speaker 3: until you're married. Inside the Amish church, that period of

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Speaker 3: time is rumspringer. It is not a noun, it's a verb.

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Speaker 3: You're referring to the English translation. You could say, okay,

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Speaker 3: well it's a period of time, so that is a nown.

365
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Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know whatever, But in the homage language,

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Speaker 3: it's not a noun, it's a verb.

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Speaker 1: So because I am unmarried and I am over eighteen,

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Speaker 1: am I rumspringer.

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Speaker 3: In not over eighteen sixteen or seventeen.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's sixteen or seventeen.

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Speaker 3: Depending on the community. That's when it starts. And that's

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Speaker 3: when you join the young folks, and now you're in

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Speaker 3: a special group of people where you get to now

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Speaker 3: go to the singings after on the Sundays when their church.

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Speaker 3: So we only have church every other Sunday. We have

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Speaker 3: church and our homes and whoever hosts church makes supper

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Speaker 3: or dinner in the evening for the young folks and

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Speaker 3: some of their friends who are you know, married folks

379
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Speaker 3: that they invite back friends or family and or neighbors.

380
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Speaker 3: But the thing is, this is now your opportunity to

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Speaker 3: check out the opposite sex because of course LGBTQIA plus

382
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Speaker 3: people are not recognized, so it's only straight, hetero normative,

383
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,639
Speaker 3: and you're also allowed to date. And the young folks

384
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Speaker 3: get together, they sing hymns of course, you know, religious

385
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 3: songs sexy. But also it depends on the community that

386
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Speaker 3: you're in because you might sing only German songs like

387
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Speaker 3: German not Amish, like real actual standard German, and some

388
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Speaker 3: communities allow a mix of German and English, and some

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Speaker 3: communities usually they tend to be on the stricter end,

390
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,360
Speaker 3: but also some you know, in the very liberal and

391
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 3: in the big communities with like hundreds of teens, they

392
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 3: will use tunes like pop whatever you know tunes are

393
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Speaker 3: going on and set them to German songs that are

394
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Speaker 3: songs about, you know, praising God or how are you

395
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 3: Johnny Cash tunes.

396
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Speaker 4: I Love God and I Know It like something like that.

397
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Speaker 3: Whatever it is. Wow, I German. I don't even understand

398
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Speaker 3: the Germans. I don't know what the hell we're singing,

399
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Speaker 3: you know.

400
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Speaker 2: Is not even in a language you understand them. How

401
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 2: is it even worship music? At that point? That's so funny.

402
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 3: Think of the Catholic Church, like the traditional Catholic Church

403
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 3: that did all the masses in Latin before the Protestant Reformation,

404
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 3: Like you didn't understand a damn thing that was going

405
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Speaker 3: on in the service, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But it's funny because you're using you're using

407
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 1: a different melody and just taking the lyrics though, which

408
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 1: is extra funny because if you're just using the lyrics

409
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Speaker 1: and you don't understand them.

410
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Speaker 2: Like what are you?

411
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 1: You're just basically doing a fun foreign version of Yeah,

412
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: I kissed a girl, which interesting choice. I thank you

413
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: well dated, but you know whatever, I was like, Wow,

414
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Speaker 1: modern pop songs, Okay.

415
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Speaker 3: I don't even know what tunes they use. Now you

416
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 3: know what the melodies are. Now it could be whoever, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Bad guy.

418
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Speaker 1: It's like Billie Eilish, Eilish, but yeah, I wish I

419
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 1: knew German so I could say phrase in German and

420
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: Billie Eilish's melody.

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Speaker 4: Who is finding out these pop songs like do you

422
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:41,679
Speaker 4: have the radio?

423
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 3: How it started originally was through school, because Amish children

424
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Speaker 3: went to public schools, or they had public school teachers.

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Speaker 3: Even if the school was a one room school house

426
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 3: in the country with Amish only kids, which was normal

427
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 3: in huge Amish communities, they still had a public school

428
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 3: curriculum and a non Amish teacher, a state certified teacher,

429
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 3: and that's where you learned all the patriotic songs and

430
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Speaker 3: whatever else the teacher played on the piano or taught

431
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,719
Speaker 3: you in school to sing. That was before education became

432
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 3: so censored by the church before that movement started, and

433
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 3: so that's how that originally came in. So you would

434
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 3: learn these tunes in school, or these actual songs that

435
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 3: you might even have the lyrics of, these Johnny Cash songs.

436
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 3: For example, I'm using Johnny Cash only because that's the

437
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 3: only person I remember I know for sure. The Beatles too. Actually,

438
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 3: I don't know why I forgot that. But when I

439
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 3: was fifteen, after I escape and I heard actual Beatles songs,

440
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,719
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, that's what I was singing,

441
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 3: like I recognized everything.

442
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 4: We all live in house electricity.

443
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god. It was like this half dramatic, half

444
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: light happy, like childhood memory. So I'm like, what is

445
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 3: happening here? It was sort of like being suddenly sent

446
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 3: into an alternate universe when I heard this Yellow Submarine

447
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 3: and thinking that's an Amish song. That's not an English song.

448
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 6: Wow.

449
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: Did you like these songs when you heard the actual

450
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: versions or were you like, I'm traumatized, please turn it off.

451
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 3: No, I love those tunes. I love the Beatles tunes.

452
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 3: And it was really the Johnny Cash ones or any

453
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 3: country ones that I within the first year did not

454
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 3: like anymore. I will always say country music is great

455
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 3: for when you want to feel sorry for yourself or

456
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 3: want to get depressed or want to stay depressed.

457
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I love country music.

458
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 2: So, uh, I guess that's me.

459
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 6: It's like emo.

460
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know a lot of people listening and you

461
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 3: you're I don't mean to offend you, but this is

462
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 3: just the way I look at it.

463
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 2: I say, enough, I'm offended.

464
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 4: No. I read in an article somewhere that like, a

465
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 4: little boy was stuttering, so his dad put his toe

466
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 4: under a rocking chair.

467
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 5: You're nodding, this is.

468
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: True, Megan, what a transition.

469
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 5: I'm sorry.

470
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 4: I just looked back at our notes and I'm like,

471
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 4: is this kind of abuse just rampant? Like there's sing alongs,

472
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 4: but then you stutter in your foot's put under a

473
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 4: rocking chair.

474
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 3: This is not unusual. I don't think that the majority

475
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 3: of Amish parents do that, but it's certainly not something

476
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 3: that is going to raise the problem. People are not

477
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: going to have a fit about it if they find out,

478
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 3: because Okay, you're disciplining your child, well you know, right discipline,

479
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 3: and you're being a good Amish parent by not spoiling

480
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 3: your child. Basically, you know, spare the rod, spoil the

481
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: child kind of philosophy. And when you think about it,

482
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: this is not unique to the Amish, but it's unique

483
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 3: to remaining part of the religion and culture. This corporal punishment,

484
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: this extreme form of abuse. I mean this used to

485
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: happen even in public schools and general mainstream society. I

486
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 3: mean nuns would flap kids, you know, with rulers, you'd

487
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: get beatings, you know, in school, all of that. Like

488
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 3: this is something that I always try to put context

489
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: around it, like, don't be so shocked. This is in

490
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 3: your own history, any human history, you know, as this history.

491
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 6: The problem is totally.

492
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 3: Enlightenment hasn't yet come to the Amish, Like that's been

493
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 3: actively prevented by the Christian right and protected that kind

494
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 3: of religion and exemptions from the rule of law or

495
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 3: you know, child rights, women's rights, all that kind of stuff.

496
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: That's a really interesting point.

497
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: It's like you're preserving this sort of historical community, which

498
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: on the outside it's like oh, horse and buggy, like

499
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: no electricity, that's sort of quaint. But like if we're

500
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: actually preserving a historical community, history is pretty messed up

501
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: and to not you know, be keeping up with progress

502
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: in other areas besides just the cutesy ones. Is definitely

503
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: like that's a real problem for sure, real quick, before

504
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: we get too deep into that, I just want to

505
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: like finish establishing some of the basics. So when you

506
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: were growing up, did you know any non Amish children, Like,

507
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: did you know that you were different?

508
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 2: How did you feel about your lifestyle?

509
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: So, yes, we don't live in a commune with like

510
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 3: actual walls where we can't see outside. We live in

511
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: the countryside rural areas, and we have no Amish neighbors.

512
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 3: And depending on what your family's businesses, you'll see non

513
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 3: Amish clients. And certainly when you go to the store,

514
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 3: you know, grocery store in town to buy things you

515
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: don't grow or raise yourself, you see cars and not

516
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: Amish people. So that's not unusual. What varies from community

517
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 3: to community or from family to families how much interaction

518
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 3: you're allowed to have with your non Amish neighbors, for example,

519
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: And usually if you're younger, the kids are younger, the

520
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 3: belief is that they're too young to understand the difference

521
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 3: or what's going on, and there might be more interaction

522
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 3: with not Amish neighbors or visiting the neighbors or being

523
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 3: friends with them, just depending on the situation as the

524
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 3: kids get older again depending on the family, but this

525
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 3: definitely tends to be pretty common. Like, the restrictions around

526
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 3: the girls are a lot harsher than the boys. You're

527
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 3: not allowed to see your non Amish neighbors as much

528
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 3: anymore play with them because it's not considered a bad influence. Well,

529
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 3: the child psychology, the early childhood development years are the

530
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 3: most formative. Waiting to shut off that access until you

531
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: were I don't know, eleven or something, the damage has

532
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: already been done, right.

533
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: Right, I'm guessing they're not big on child psychology though, so.

534
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: No, not at all. Like, that's the same argument they

535
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 3: used in the Wisconsin versus Yoda Supreme Court case about

536
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: why the children need to quit going to school after

537
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 3: eighth grade. Well, the non Amish kids in the public

538
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 3: school curriculum is a bad influence. It's going to be

539
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: too much of a problem at that age. You know,

540
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 3: they need to be surrounded only by the religion and

541
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 3: our Amish beliefs and not be tempted by the non

542
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 3: Amish public school curriculum and children blah, blah blah.

543
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: It's like really, Yeah, so you started questioning at a

544
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: super young age, which I feel like is very unique.

545
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen that often. Can you tell.

546
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: Us how and when you began to question and was

547
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: it related to the abuse that you experienced.

548
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: It was definitely related to the abuse. I of course

549
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 3: didn't realize that until many years later, and I went

550
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: through all this intensive therapy which I'm still uncovering levels of.

551
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 3: But I've pinpointed being aware of the abuse when I

552
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 3: was three years old. So it started that oh wow,

553
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 3: young when I realized that the adults were not there

554
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 3: to help me or protect me. I could not depend

555
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: on them. I would have to figure out how to

556
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 3: take care of myself. That's a three year old's thoughts. Unbelievable.

557
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: Three crazy. Yeah, Okay, can you just take us down

558
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: that journey a little bit more.

559
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. So that was when my parents moved to a

560
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 3: different state and I was born on the farm with

561
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 3: my grandparents. So in the Amish traditional culture, which you

562
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 3: don't see as much anymore because there aren't so many

563
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 3: farmers anymore, but originally we're a farming culture and there's

564
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 3: a little house connected to the big house on the

565
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 3: family farm. And what happens is when the grandparents get older,

566
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: they move into the little house and one of their

567
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: siblings move into the big house and they take care

568
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: of the grandparents because we don't send our grandparents or

569
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: elderly to nursing homes traditionally. So what happened was that

570
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: my parents got married, they moved into the little house.

571
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 3: And that's also a tradition or normal you know, part

572
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: of normal general Amagh culture. If the kids don't have

573
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: a place right away to move to, if there's a

574
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 3: little house on the farm, you move into the little house.

575
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 3: That's your transition until you can buy, you know, your

576
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: own land or whatever. So for the first three years

577
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: of my life, that was my environment where I would

578
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: run to the big house, to grandpa's house where there

579
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 3: were six aunts and uncles who weren't married yet and

580
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 3: they all like just love me. You know, I was

581
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: the little favorite grandchild. I was also very precocious and

582
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 3: so you know, I was entertainment. So you know, for

583
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 3: most of the day, long hours of every day, I

584
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 3: was around aunts and uncles who loved me and took

585
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 3: care of me. I was only at my parents' house

586
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 3: to sleep and eat in the morning and get dressed

587
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: for Sunday for church basically, and my mother was super,

588
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 3: super depressed and the marriage was super unhappy. My father

589
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 3: is just awful, to say belie, horribly, horribly abusive, and

590
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: there was never any happiness in that household. It was

591
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 3: always dark, physically dark and emotionally dark. And so I

592
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 3: would get the love from my grandparents and aunts and uncles.

593
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 3: At three years old, we moved to this other state

594
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 3: where there were no aunts and uncles around, no close

595
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 3: relatives around. Now I was alone all the time with

596
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 3: just my mother, who was not interested in taking care

597
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 3: of me right, And that was when I realized, oh,

598
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: I'm on my own here. And my father worked away

599
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 3: long hours because we didn't grow up on a farm

600
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: or sell and worked for construction or work for somebody else,

601
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 3: so he was always gone. So one parent was always gone.

602
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: The other parent didn't want me. Both parents were together,

603
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 3: they were arguing and fighting. So that was my environment.

604
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 3: And then because I was the oldest, I also got

605
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: burdened with the responsibility of taking care of all of

606
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 3: my siblings as they were born. I was the second mother,

607
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 3: and I was my father's favorite kid. Everybody knew that

608
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,479
Speaker 3: I was his favorite until I decided that I'm not

609
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 3: going to stay in the Amish religion and do what

610
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 3: he wants me to do because it's bs or not

611
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: my choice. Then of course, you know, like now I'm

612
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 3: the worst person on the planet in his eyes. But anyway,

613
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: up until then, there was this emotional incest kind of

614
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 3: thing that was going on, or this parentification is another

615
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: term in psychology that's coming out, where basically, in my

616
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: mother's eyes, I was the other woman. Her husband preferred

617
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 3: the daughter instead of the wife, and the daughter got

618
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 3: more intention than the wife. And I didn't get along

619
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 3: with my mother. She and I have totally different personalities,

620
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: and so I was her enemy on more than one level.

621
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, it was just awful.

622
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 3: And then I also needed to take care of the kids.

623
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: I was six years old when I was told go

624
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: out and play, take care of your siblings and don't

625
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 3: wake me up and wow, And then I got punished

626
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: when I took the kids to the woods, to the

627
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: BlackBerry patch because you're not supposed to leave the yard.

628
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 3: How the frick would I know I'm taking care of

629
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 3: the little kids like you told me, and not waking

630
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 3: you up right.

631
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 6: Wow.

632
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry. I was mothering your children for you.

633
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: I'm six.

634
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: D Jesus, Wow, that's so hard. I mean, did you

635
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: believe in the religion not.

636
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: In the beginning, Like I did a lot of what

637
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: I call memory mining when I wrote my memoir and

638
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 3: kind of digging into what did I really think when

639
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 3: I was first told about this God and Jesus. And

640
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 3: I remember my mother teaching me how to pray like

641
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 3: the little kid's prayer that I had to say at night,

642
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 3: and talking to me about God and Jesus. And I'm thinking,

643
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 3: I don't get this. This is very confusing. Number One,

644
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 3: like God and Jesus. Why is there only one God

645
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 3: but two gods?

646
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: Right?

647
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 2: It is confusing one thing.

648
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 3: And then the other thing was that prayer I was

649
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 3: taught at night was a German prayer, and I thought

650
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: that it said that I am tired. I'm going to

651
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 3: go to Ruth, which was my birth his name that

652
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 3: I was given, But in German it was I'm going

653
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 3: to rest, and so that also made me confuse. I'm like, Okay,

654
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to pray to God, but I'm praying to.

655
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: Myself a much healthier way to go about it, in

656
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: my opinion.

657
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: But I was not impressed by this God.

658
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 4: A lot to be impressed by it.

659
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 3: But then I quickly forgot about that or it got

660
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 3: drowned with the brainwashing, the fear of going to hell.

661
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: So that quickly comes into play that if you do

662
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 3: not do what you're told, if you don't obey your parents,

663
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 3: especially when you're a little kid, it's obey the parents.

664
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 3: It's not you know, obey the church rules. It's you

665
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 3: have to obey your parents, right, because if you don't,

666
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 3: God is going to send you to hell. And so

667
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 3: that's what you hear also as you get old, and

668
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 3: then as well, that's because the Bible says, so we

669
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: need to do this or that, because the Bible says so, well,

670
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 3: we're born Amish, so we have to use a horsem

671
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 3: buggy and we can't use electricity. If you break the

672
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: rules of the church, the law of the Amish law,

673
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: you're going to go to hell for sure. And the

674
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 3: one thing to understand about Amish religion is that number one,

675
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 3: we don't proselytize. Number two, we don't say that we

676
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 3: know for sure that you can get into heaven we

677
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: say that your best chance at getting into heaven is

678
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 3: to remain in the Amish church for the rest of

679
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: your life.

680
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: You don't even get a guarantee. That's a messed up dude.

681
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. So that's what makes the brainwashing, the terrorizing, it's

682
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: really terrorizing religious terrorizing. Makes it so effective is that

683
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: you never know if you're going to be good enough.

684
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 3: Even your best is not necessarily good enough, like every day,

685
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 3: what if I die? Or depending on how much you

686
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 3: think about this, whether consciously, subconsciously or unconsciously, that's what's

687
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: running in the background of pretty much every Amish kid

688
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 3: is I might go to Hell, and Hell is you know,

689
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 3: like the Lazarus story in the Bible. I think it

690
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 3: was no Abraham, I mean I I think it's a

691
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: good thing. I've forgotten the names of these but the

692
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 3: story about how this person gets sent to Hell and

693
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: begs Abraham I think, or somebody you know, for just

694
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 3: one drop of.

695
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 5: Drop of water. Oh I was told that every night,

696
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 5: one drop of.

697
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 4: Water on your tongue, you would do anything for it exactly.

698
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 3: So that's the image that's branded in your psychology as

699
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 3: an Amish kid. Yeah.

700
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: Oh, that's not a story I got growing up.

701
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I think I was telling you the

702
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 4: other day that I have like so much art from

703
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 4: when I was three or four of myself like God

704
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 4: pushing people in the lake of fire, and I'm like,

705
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 4: you guys didn't want to send me to anyone or

706
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 4: like that.

707
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: She was drawing as a kid, I was, it.

708
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 3: Was saying, that's a great thing. Oh, I guess like

709
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 3: absorbing what we're teaching her.

710
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 5: How I'm so psychotic. Oh, it's psychotic.

711
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 3: I mean I used to go to bed and praying

712
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 3: to God, who I was terrified of, don't let me

713
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 3: die tonight. I don't want to go to hell. That

714
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 3: was my prayer as I go, oh.

715
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 5: You're terrifying.

716
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, just like quick aside.

717
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: It makes me think of attachment theory and how when

718
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: you don't have a secure parent who you know is

719
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: going to be there, you get like anxious as an

720
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: adult or avoidant. I got to imagine there's got to

721
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: be some connection to if your eternal security is something

722
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: that's constantly in question.

723
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: Like anything I do, will it get me into Heaven?

724
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 5: Will it not?

725
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 2: Will I burn in the eternal flames? Or will I

726
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 2: be saved?

727
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 5: I don't know.

728
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: There's something about just like your conception of your safety

729
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,919
Speaker 1: in the world that I feel like is formed during

730
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: those years that seems very just hard and traumatic.

731
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 3: I love that you mentioned that. I didn't even really

732
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: conceptualize that until just very recently, probably a few weeks ago.

733
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 3: I was talking to a lot of my friends when we

734
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: were talking about because he and I had similar experiences

735
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 3: with the whole parnification thing, and he mentioned, think about

736
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 3: that lack of safety, not having safety, And like, I'm

737
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 3: not a psychologist or therapist. I know enough to be

738
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 3: able to understand thost pieces myself, but I don't know

739
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 3: what to say exactly about that lack of safety about

740
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 3: after you die, which I think would be a great

741
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 3: conversation all by itself.

742
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, what age did you guys start getting disciplined in

743
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 4: the church when.

744
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 3: You're a baby, before you walk?

745
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah, how does one discipline a baby?

746
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 3: Spanking? It gets worse and worse, you know, and also

747
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 3: depends on the mother, the mother's disposition right on how

748
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: hard the baby gets spanked. If you are in church

749
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: with a baby, small children, they're crying. You have to

750
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 3: leave the service and go to the bedroom. Yes, because

751
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 3: you're being a bad mother if your baby cries, and

752
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 3: if you can hear the baby crying from the bedroom,

753
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 3: now you're an even worse mother. And babies will get

754
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 3: spanked and their hands covered over their mouths.

755
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 5: Yeah.

756
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 4: Wow, would you get told if you don't stop crying,

757
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 4: you're going to get another spanking? Yeah, Sam, Yeah, Oh

758
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 4: my gosh.

759
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 3: Oh my god. I forgot about that one. Actually, oh yeah, yeah, no,

760
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 3: shut up. However it was said in Amish because I'm

761
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 3: now like going into my Amish brain and I'm just

762
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 3: like finding our translate. But yeah, it was the same thing.

763
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 5: Two questions about this number one.

764
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 4: Do you have freedom from this belief now or is

765
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 4: there always a part of you that's like go into hell.

766
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 3: No, I don't have a part of me that thinks

767
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to hell because of this Christian

768
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 3: God or Amish God or biblical God. I don't believe

769
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 3: that kind of god exists. If such a god exists,

770
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 3: it was it's some human tyrant, you know. So yeah,

771
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 3: I don't believe that. I still don't know what happens

772
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 3: after you die. I'm still coming to terms with that.

773
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: Is it just extinction or is there something that happens

774
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 3: with the laws of physics. Energy just change its form,

775
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 3: So like, which part of me is energy? Is it

776
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 3: only physical? Or is there such a thing as a

777
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 3: soul or spirit or whatever? Like that's something that still

778
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 3: bugs me, and I don't like it. I don't like

779
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 3: thinking about the possibility that I might, according to the Buddhists,

780
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 3: have another life, like get reborn or something.

781
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 5: I was just going to say, as long as I'm

782
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 5: not reborn, I'm cool with it. Don't make me do

783
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 5: this again, like.

784
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 3: The way I think, Okay, this is great, Like if

785
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 3: this is it, it's just a physical thing and my

786
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 3: physical body disentegrate, turns into dust whatever, awesome. I would

787
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: love that, you know, so I never have to go

788
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: through this horror and terror and just hell. This is

789
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 3: hell what I've had, Like there is no home man,

790
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 3: burning alive in a lake of fire whatever for the

791
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 3: rest of your life or returnity. I lived that every frickin'

792
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 3: day because of the traumas and the rapes and all

793
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 3: other sorts of abuse, you know, so I'm already living that.

794
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 3: I don't need that. I don't need more of that.

795
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 3: I would love if this was it, when my physical

796
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 3: body died. Everything about me is dead. If it gets reborn,

797
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 3: I'm pissed, beyond piss because if I do get reborn,

798
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 3: that means I had a life before this and some

799
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 3: tyrant has control over me and decided this is the

800
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 3: life I'm going to be born into. F that person.

801
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, if you are reborn, I have confidence you

802
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: will be reborn into a much better life.

803
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're a bad But also, that's not a thing.

804
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't know for sure, but my personal

805
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: opinion is that's not a thing.

806
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 4: Well, my second question you kind of touched on. It

807
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 4: was I read an.

808
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 2: Interview with you where you're like, people from.

809
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 4: The outside are shown this world of Amish and you know,

810
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 4: the movie Witness and TV shows and stuff where it's

811
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 4: like really modest, good hearted family people, which I'm sure

812
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 4: is there, but there's also this huge world of like

813
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 4: sexual abuse and child abuse. And I was reading about

814
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 4: a woman named Mary Byler who was raped by her brothers.

815
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 4: She told a police officer her brothers admitted it and

816
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 4: they were not in trouble, but she was shunned from

817
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 4: the community.

818
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 3: Well that's not unusual. I mean that happens to everybody.

819
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 5: That's crazy.

820
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: That's the standard operating procedure.

821
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 6: Hmm.

822
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 3: It happens over and over and over and over and

823
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 3: over again, even right now to day. It's happening. It's

824
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 3: never going to stop until somebody decides to enforce the law.

825
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 3: And law enforcement is in the pockets of the Amish

826
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 3: bishops and clergy, and the Amash clergy and bishops are

827
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 3: having their free reign thanks to the Christian right who

828
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 3: are lobbying Washington for extreme religious freedom exemptions instead of

829
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 3: just abiding by what the constitution says, which is religious freedom,

830
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: not extreme religious freedom.

831
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 6: Right.

832
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you tell us about your experiences. I mean,

833
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: you don't have to go into detail. It's whatever you're

834
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: comfortable with. But you yourself were actually abused when you told

835
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: people what happened.

836
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: At the time, I was still talking to my brother

837
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: and he reacted appropriately, which was wanting to murder the uncle.

838
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 3: So two uncles rape me repeatedly, and I told him

839
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 3: to tell all the other siblings and the parents because

840
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 3: I was not speaking to you, the parents even at

841
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:01,720
Speaker 3: that time.

842
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 2: How old were you?

843
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 3: This was when I was twenty nine. I didn't even

844
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 3: start talking about this to anybody. Until I was twenty

845
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 3: nine years old.

846
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 6: Oh wow, Okay, Well, one.

847
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 3: Of the reasons I didn't talk about it earlier was

848
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 3: because I thought it was an isolated happening because there's

849
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 3: no talk about sexual assault, rape culture, that kind of stuff. Like,

850
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 3: I really thought this would only happened to me. It

851
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 3: never occurred to me that this would happen to anybody

852
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: else or has happened, or that these uncles are repeat offender, serial,

853
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 3: lifelong child rapists. I thought it was just something that

854
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 3: happened to me, And of course, like that made me

855
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 3: wonder again about the supposed good God, right. But I

856
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 3: rationalized a way not talking about it on top of

857
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 3: that by not wanting my cousins and my grandmother to

858
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 3: know that they had a father and sons were rapists.

859
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 3: And what made me not talk about it even more

860
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 3: was I knew this was going to be the perfect

861
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 3: story for the Amish church to tell their kids, see

862
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 3: what happens if you leave, You're going to get rape

863
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 3: and you deserve it, like that's God. And so I

864
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 3: didn't want them to have that ammunition. But ultimately but

865
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 3: bought my silence was one of the uncles, the first

866
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 3: uncle telling me the next day, if you ever tell anyone,

867
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to kill you. And man, he didn't say

868
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 3: I'm going to kill you. He looked at me and said,

869
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 3: you know, you can't ever tell anybody about this, right,

870
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: And I knew that was.

871
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 6: What he meant when he met.

872
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 3: And you know, he was violent. He had told me

873
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: other stories before he raped me, and in hindsight, I

874
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 3: can see this was like grooming me, setting me up.

875
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 6: About how exactly, Yeah, he.

876
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 3: Was involved in drug running and things like that.

877
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 2: It's terrifying.

878
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 5: Is there a lot of drug running? I read that once?

879
00:46:58,239 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 5: Is that true?

880
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 3: Not the majority, but there are definitely major drug operations

881
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 3: going on in the Amish.

882
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 6: Wow.

883
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 3: It's kind of like asking, oh, are there lots of

884
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 3: Americans who are billionaires? No, but the billionaires that exists

885
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 3: are pretty powerful. It's the same with people, and a

886
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 3: lot of them, but there are some who they're major

887
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 3: drug runners in the business.

888
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: So he's this terrifying figure. It makes perfect sense. How

889
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 1: old were you when that happened.

890
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 3: I was fifteen, So this was the humble that I

891
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 3: went to escape to. Thought he was going to No,

892
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 3: Oh my.

893
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: God, Oh that's horrible.

894
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 6: I'm so sorry.

895
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 4: I see what you're saying about the Amish people being like,

896
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 4: this is what you get?

897
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 2: That makes sense?

898
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 1: Okay, and that's where we'll leave it for part one

899
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,959
Speaker 1: for this week's stay tuned next week for part two. Megan, Yes,

900
00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 1: time for the question I'm ready? Would you join the Amish?

901
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 4: Well, if my choice was to be in the Amish

902
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 4: or what I was raised, and I would choose the Amish,

903
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 4: But any other no, absolutely.

904
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. What if it was like one

905
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: week only?

906
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 5: What do you mean I'm an Amish for a week? Yeah,

907
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 5: nor so I'm going camping for a week. No, I

908
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 5: don't want to camp for a week.

909
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,720
Speaker 1: I don't think that I would either. Although it seems

910
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: fun to have your phone in the barn, I feel

911
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: like I would get more done if my phone was

912
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: in the barn and not in my pocket at all times.

913
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: But other than that, probably not the cult for me.

914
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, don't think so.

915
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: But kudos to anyone who is living that lifestyle and

916
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: is happy and healthy. We support you in that as

917
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 1: long as it is not what Torah.

918
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 5: Experienced, and yeah, a lot of other women.

919
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: Not that anyone Amish is listening to this, but maybe

920
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: in like three years when they get out, they'll listen

921
00:48:58,600 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: to this.

922
00:48:58,800 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying.

923
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 4: Amen, Okay, Well, as always, you guys, remember to have

924
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 4: an awesome week. We'll talk to you again next week,

925
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 4: and remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flags,

926
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 4: and never.

927
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: Never ever ever trust me.

928
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 5: Bye bye