Speaker 1: I'm Caroline Hyde at Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York,
Speaker 1: and I'med Lovelow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 1: Coming up on today's show, f t X contagion continues,
Speaker 1: while Finance CEO c Z seeks to be the new
Speaker 1: savior of crypto, will reflect on the fallout with one
Speaker 1: of the early f t X investors, Class President Biden
Speaker 1: and China's Jijing Ping have charted a path towards warmer
Speaker 1: ties between the two nations. We can discuss the impact
Speaker 1: on the technology sector, particularly chips and amid crypto concerns.
Speaker 1: Tech laos and geopolitical warriors can start up still raise money. Yes,
Speaker 1: we are going to be speaking with legendary VC investor
Speaker 1: Vinod Kosla, plus an exclusive conversation with Maven Connects CEO
Speaker 1: on its latest funding round. We want to think about
Speaker 1: the long term in investment opportunities right now within well crypto.
Speaker 1: Many people dialing back that particular trade at the moment
Speaker 1: they might still be looking in the metaverse, but maybe
Speaker 1: not f TX. The collapse still being felt, and indeed
Speaker 1: in Bahamas, the Bahamian police and regulators they're saying that
Speaker 1: they're working to investigate whether there was actually criminal misconduct
Speaker 1: ed in the collapse of the crypto empire. This after
Speaker 1: interviewing ft x is co founder sand Bankwun Freed on Saturday,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Katanga Johnson is based in Nassau in the Bahamas
Speaker 1: and has been following this story for us in Katanga.
Speaker 1: I mean, give us the latest in terms of the impact,
Speaker 1: particularly on sam bankman Freed at the moment we understand,
Speaker 1: of course he was sat down with the police on
Speaker 1: Saturday here in the Bahamas. Yes, authorities have began investigating
Speaker 1: sam Bankman Freed and f t X, particularly around Friday's
Speaker 1: withdrawals from local investors, who at the same time that
Speaker 1: many local investors were able to withdraw their money from
Speaker 1: the platform, global investors had been shut out. And while
Speaker 1: the company, he said it had gotten a nod from
Speaker 1: the regulator to allow for this, given a key a
Speaker 1: loophole in regulations here, the regulators said it did not
Speaker 1: in any way suggest or approve for FTX to allow
Speaker 1: such withdrawals. This is just one of the touching points
Speaker 1: right now on the ground as regulators, both the Bahama
Speaker 1: Securities Commission as well as the Financial Crimes Unit of
Speaker 1: the police look into this matter. Authorities say they're still
Speaker 1: investigating yet, they haven't come to any sort of conclusion,
Speaker 1: but once they do, they'll make a recommendation to the
Speaker 1: public prosecutor, who have then actually begin a criminal misconduct
Speaker 1: pro Well, that would be my question, Katanga. What kind
Speaker 1: of trouble is Sam Branktan Freed in in the Bahama
Speaker 1: is what kind of rebacussions does he and f t
Speaker 1: X face. It's a little too soon to tell. It
Speaker 1: will depend on whether the findings of these investigations suggests
Speaker 1: that he did engage in criminal misconduct. Uh. Just some
Speaker 1: of the color on the ground is that many investors
Speaker 1: that we've spoken to and there's been reporting on this,
Speaker 1: just feeling so ways betrayed. Some are trying to make
Speaker 1: sense of the person they knew, who they either worked
Speaker 1: with day to day or came to trust. As he
Speaker 1: was busy building a community center beginning the launch of
Speaker 1: the other FTX headquarters, were standing in front of the
Speaker 1: more current one. They're building a new one that including
Speaker 1: a hotel. Many people felt as if there were so
Speaker 1: many efforts to to advance to the presence of crypto
Speaker 1: in the Bahamas and u SPF reputation certainly ruined that potential.
Speaker 1: Some people have told us, I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 1: emotions where you are right now, Katanga Johnson, of course
Speaker 1: in the Bahamas. We thank you so much for your
Speaker 1: reporting throughout the day. Now let's get back to, of course,
Speaker 1: the wider cryptosphere. Right now, Blue motional basket has been
Speaker 1: all across what is not only a criminal probe for SPF,
Speaker 1: also looking within the SEC as well. But what about
Speaker 1: the impact on the money he's lost for others? What
Speaker 1: are the ripple effects of contagion effects on some big
Speaker 1: money managers here in the US and worldwide. Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: take a look directly at the ones that are reporting
Speaker 1: their exposures. Some of them have a large amount of
Speaker 1: their own capital. Eight up Gallos Capital for example, has
Speaker 1: set up to forty five million dollars worth, a significant amount,
Speaker 1: they say. I guy also says a large majority of
Speaker 1: their capital was tied as well to f t X.
Speaker 1: Galaxy Digital had seventy seven million, Except for that was
Speaker 1: only about four percent of their capital base. They will
Speaker 1: walk away from this just fine with a bruise in
Speaker 1: terms of what they have lost. Genesis of course, we
Speaker 1: know has been working with d c G and they
Speaker 1: have one hundred seventy five million tied to this, So
Speaker 1: this is just starting to emerge. I had a conversation
Speaker 1: late Friday with Michael Novograts of Galaxy Digital, and he
Speaker 1: expects his former estimation of dozens of headge funds failing
Speaker 1: will only start to exacerbate in this type of a market.
Speaker 1: I think Carolina brings us to the next point here,
Speaker 1: which is that c Z trunk Goings out of finance,
Speaker 1: wants to start an industry fund here to rescue firms
Speaker 1: that have exposure to f t X but perhaps are
Speaker 1: good projects to be working with, ones that were honest projects.
Speaker 1: There were a variety of responses to this. He had
Speaker 1: a Twitter spaces asked me anything this morning. But in
Speaker 1: terms of what investors were reacting to to this, you
Speaker 1: have folks like Justin's son saying that a he Tron,
Speaker 1: Poloniacs and Huobe would be very very reticent or not reticent,
Speaker 1: veether they would like to echo the recovery fund here
Speaker 1: and how these builders in a tough time on the
Speaker 1: reticent side. Now is someone like a Peter Schiff who
Speaker 1: says that let's maybe not spend money rescuing projects that
Speaker 1: shouldn't be saved. He said, it's not a good idea
Speaker 1: to throw good money after bad. So moral hazard has
Speaker 1: been a looming questions since the beginning of these crypto
Speaker 1: industry issues here and now you're really coming to see
Speaker 1: this debate out to play on who gets saved and
Speaker 1: how Sonia were really in a situation now where c
Speaker 1: Z is kind of positioning himself as the industry savior, Well,
Speaker 1: we sure have him coming out with this industry fund.
Speaker 1: I think a question here is again who gets saved
Speaker 1: and who participates in a fund like this? How much
Speaker 1: money is put into a fun like this. It's interesting
Speaker 1: when we were doing all the references add on what
Speaker 1: this looks the most like, was whether it's an n
Speaker 1: F global or if it's an LTCM type moment, an
Speaker 1: idea of an industry wide bailout of sorts has come
Speaker 1: up a lot to rescue projects that might have had
Speaker 1: their money tied up into f t X. Otherwise, who
Speaker 1: would do it at this point? This is not like
Speaker 1: it's an industry that's backed by the government like other
Speaker 1: lending industries are. I would say, what is becoming very
Speaker 1: clear is that others will come into severe financial stress.
Speaker 1: Take Block five, for example, which just today had mentioned
Speaker 1: they hired a financial advisor to sort this. I mean, well,
Speaker 1: this is the irony, right because c Z is now
Speaker 1: trying to be the white Knight. Previously it's been some
Speaker 1: mikemen Free have been the white Knight bailing out Celsius
Speaker 1: voyage of Block five, as you just mentioned block Fire.
Speaker 1: What all these companies that had depended upon ft X
Speaker 1: sources for resilience. And an interesting thing I would point
Speaker 1: out myself this morning is that Alan that asked me
Speaker 1: anything spaces that CZ had health he had mentioned and
Speaker 1: that he was not relying on venture capital money. Yet
Speaker 1: you look at all the venture capitals that had poured
Speaker 1: so much money into the crypto space and have lost
Speaker 1: money on the back of it. They may indeed need
Speaker 1: to also figure out their own ways to figure out
Speaker 1: how to inject more liquidity into some of the companies
Speaker 1: that they had provided funding too, because otherwise they may
Speaker 1: have to take more losses. And so are some of
Speaker 1: these uh saving opportunities coming out of a point of weakness.
Speaker 1: You do hear he did say seasy and this morning
Speaker 1: on that Twitter spaces that for some people this is
Speaker 1: a good opportunity to buy its suppressed prices, and that
Speaker 1: like the past, this might be an opportunity to buy
Speaker 1: things during a point in time that we may not
Speaker 1: remember years later. Although I can't imagine not remember everyone's
Speaker 1: going to remember me for last two weeks. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean with all the chaos, and I guess my
Speaker 1: mind goes to confusion. You start thinking about regulators, right,
Speaker 1: Shinali CFTC. How empowering is the negative headlines we've seen
Speaker 1: to a regulator and how they act in this industry
Speaker 1: going forward. I wouldn't get so excited about the power
Speaker 1: of regulators to move forward so quickly. Ed if you
Speaker 1: think about it. F t X itself f t XS,
Speaker 1: U S s r U, s ARM had a proposal
Speaker 1: to change some rules regarding clearinghouse intermediate intermediation in the
Speaker 1: crypto industry with the CFTC, so clearly the f t
Speaker 1: X was working with regulators here. Regulators might not be
Speaker 1: so quickly to move on certain proposals here with that
Speaker 1: type of mistrust looming in the industry and being so
Speaker 1: close to the brink of changing rules from one of
Speaker 1: the major players. That is the poster child now of
Speaker 1: the crypto collapse of two. On the other hand, people
Speaker 1: have lost money at scale here. So it's not just
Speaker 1: a CFTC but the SEC and other regulators that might
Speaker 1: move faster in order to protect consumer funds as they
Speaker 1: pertain to the United States and where those funds are
Speaker 1: kept at the end of the day, and how importantly here,
Speaker 1: how they are classified. Because no matter what, you can
Speaker 1: you put as many protections as you want in retrospect.
Speaker 1: Until the industry and the CFTC and SEC can put
Speaker 1: definitions on some of these things, which is clearly still
Speaker 1: an issue out play here, it's hard to imagine the
Speaker 1: regulators moving forward in any meaningful way. Al Right, Glamductionati Basset,
Speaker 1: thank you. It's this a story that has many days
Speaker 1: to run. I'm sure the economy does not look great
Speaker 1: right now. Things are slowing down. You're seeing layoffs in
Speaker 1: many many sectors of the economy. People are are slowing down. Um,
Speaker 1: the probabilities say, if we're not in a recession right now,
Speaker 1: we're likely to be in one very soon. So my
Speaker 1: advice to people, whether they're small business owners or you know, is, uh,
Speaker 1: take some risk off the table Amazon found to Jeff
Speaker 1: Bezos there on CNN earlier talking what about the layoffs,
Speaker 1: and of course then we learned that Amazon itself is
Speaker 1: planning for its largest ever round of layoffs, cutting well
Speaker 1: to potentially ten employees according to sources, we wouldn't dive
Speaker 1: into the current pullback and tech hiring the valuations when
Speaker 1: none other than a silicon value venture capitalists you know
Speaker 1: well phone Cosla founder. Cosla Venture is one of the
Speaker 1: largest global venture firms with approximately fifteen billion dollars in
Speaker 1: assets on the management. It is times like this we
Speaker 1: turn to you and your experience, your expertise. More layoffs
Speaker 1: to become more more reticence to invest, even from a
Speaker 1: VC perspective, do you think. I don't think there's rest
Speaker 1: rediscence to invest from a VC perspective, but there will
Speaker 1: be more layoffs to come. I think the error of
Speaker 1: exuberance cause companies to take on a lot of fat.
Speaker 1: Good margins, good cash flows, allow people to be sloppy
Speaker 1: about expense control and what really matters. Everything is okay
Speaker 1: to do because one can afford it. I think now
Speaker 1: it's a very good time to do that reckoning and
Speaker 1: fix things. Cut off the extra fat, get back to
Speaker 1: the basics. I do think I do think we'll see
Speaker 1: the best investing in the next decade. Technogal you have
Speaker 1: been in this industry for thirty six years, and respectfully,
Speaker 1: you've seen a few recessions, and we keep hearing that
Speaker 1: we're destined for recession. But some of the best companies
Speaker 1: are born out of recession. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with that. You know, when when Google
Speaker 1: and Amazon and Facebook are cutting off their most advanced
Speaker 1: projects and their best, most radical projects, those are the
Speaker 1: very people who do great startups, they will be leaving
Speaker 1: and starting new companies, and that those will show up
Speaker 1: on your radar screen five years from now, but our
Speaker 1: radar screen very soon. The talk to us a little
Speaker 1: bit about the area of crypto, the ripple effects at
Speaker 1: ups had, and indeed what we're learning in terms of
Speaker 1: the legacy of a founder. When you've invested money within people,
Speaker 1: of course you keep on believing in that individual. How
Speaker 1: do you know when it's the right time to pull
Speaker 1: the plug? Well, that's why every week venture capitalists to
Speaker 1: decide for themselves. And venture capitalists are big boys, so
Speaker 1: we don't need to worry about venture capitalists. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of other people, consumers that get hurt in this
Speaker 1: that we need to worry about. I'm actually optimistic with
Speaker 1: the SPX fiasco that the regulators will step up and
Speaker 1: be much more aggressive. I was a little bit optimistic
Speaker 1: when they've imposed a fine on Kim kardation. I think
Speaker 1: way more enforcement, way more clarity on what the regulations are,
Speaker 1: less fighting between the various agencies doing regulation. I think
Speaker 1: this is a real opportunity to enable crypto for the
Speaker 1: real world of business, not the crypto world alone. I
Speaker 1: separate crypto as crypto for crypto world and crypto for
Speaker 1: the real world building real businesses that impact what we
Speaker 1: know as businesses today. And I think if the regulators
Speaker 1: step up, as I hope they will, this will really
Speaker 1: enable that. I mean much of this. The blame can
Speaker 1: be laid on the sec and others who haven't stepped
Speaker 1: up and provided clarity on what is possible, what's the token,
Speaker 1: what's the security, what can you do, and what can't
Speaker 1: you do. I think it's a real opportunity, and I
Speaker 1: hope the crumbling off ft X provides pressure to do
Speaker 1: this on the regulators. Then a cryptocurrency meltdown has kind
Speaker 1: of dominated headlines. So as President Biden's meeting ping. You
Speaker 1: told us in June that the US and China were
Speaker 1: headed for a techno economic war. Were you right, Well,
Speaker 1: I've always believed that, and I think this is a
Speaker 1: twenty thirty year perspective. They're not one year perspective. I
Speaker 1: totally believe that, and it will continue to be the case.
Speaker 1: But we can compete in a more civilized manner with
Speaker 1: a clearer setup rules of what is acceptable behavior in
Speaker 1: this For example, cyber spin espionage is not acceptable. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it will help to talk, and it will,
Speaker 1: but we will still be in this battle, and frankly,
Speaker 1: the world will be better off if two people are
Speaker 1: competing with the good set of well defined rules for technology.
Speaker 1: But if the Western world wins the technology battle, they'll
Speaker 1: win the political and economic battle too. In another area
Speaker 1: you're focused on is climate tech. Our latest data from
Speaker 1: Bloomberg New Energy Finance showed the third straight quarter drop
Speaker 1: in VC and private equity investment into climate tech. You
Speaker 1: wrote in the op ed in The Economist that we
Speaker 1: are too focused on twenty thirty climate goals and we
Speaker 1: need to be more focused on the longer term twenty
Speaker 1: fifty climate goals. How does that drive your investment decisions?
Speaker 1: The startups that you are or are not putting money
Speaker 1: into in that sector. So our job is to invest early,
Speaker 1: you know, when people are requiring five or ten million
Speaker 1: dollars to do something. The bulk of the deployment comes
Speaker 1: in mature technologies, and that's not our business. But what
Speaker 1: we invest in should be a prototype or proven technology
Speaker 1: by twenty and deployed by twenty forty and hopefully fully
Speaker 1: deployed by That's sort of the perspective we keep in mind.
Speaker 1: Nothing we invest in gets to liquid it in less
Speaker 1: than five to ten years, and so with that in mind,
Speaker 1: the current perturbations up and down don't matter as much
Speaker 1: except to keep these companies funded, which is what we
Speaker 1: worry about by being more or less conservative, depending upon
Speaker 1: what the markets are doing. But of course you've written
Speaker 1: about the thing that you need to be if your
Speaker 1: a VC is optimistic. So let's finish on an optimistic moment,
Speaker 1: where are you thinking of allocating money? Which are the
Speaker 1: areas that you think will be the diamonds in the
Speaker 1: rough at this particular market where we are worried about
Speaker 1: an economic dial back. We are worried about the amount
Speaker 1: of money being put to work. Well, the largest investment
Speaker 1: we've ever made was an opening, so AI is definitely
Speaker 1: more transformative than most people imagine. We did that five
Speaker 1: years ago, and I'd say that world has accelerated dramatically
Speaker 1: over the last five years. So I'm very happy with that.
Speaker 1: I think it will be a very very rich area.
Speaker 1: It will be more disruptive to incumbents than most people realize, uh,
Speaker 1: and that is something we do need to both take
Speaker 1: advantage of as the disruptors and mostly on the disruptive inside,
Speaker 1: but also in how to partner with the right incumbents
Speaker 1: to cause lt change to happen. Climate will continue to
Speaker 1: be a big area, and I think the application of
Speaker 1: AI to healthcare will be very very important. I've talked
Speaker 1: a lot about that. I'm much more confident that that
Speaker 1: will be disrupted in the way people can't imagine today
Speaker 1: in in the next decade or so. So lots of
Speaker 1: areas and lots of technology enablers, whether it's AI, three
Speaker 1: D printing, UM computational techniques in general, all leading to
Speaker 1: very very promising areas for tech based investing. All right, then,
Speaker 1: a Coastler, founder of Coast la Vengeres. Thank you. What
Speaker 1: an honor is to have you on the show this Monday.
Speaker 1: Coming up Apples working on its next major product and
Speaker 1: mixed reality headset. We'll talk about metaverse, composition and more.
Speaker 1: Next this is Bloomberg time for talking tech. Apples mixed
Speaker 1: reality headset maybe a year away. But we've been asking
Speaker 1: you in the audience which company you think wins out
Speaker 1: in the race to the metaverse. Most people responded Apple,
Speaker 1: even though Meta, the parent company of Facebook, already dominates
Speaker 1: the market for virtual reality. It's an interesting one because
Speaker 1: Meta has such a big head start. But you out
Speaker 1: there think that it's Apple that's gonna win in the
Speaker 1: long run, and we have some clues about what they'll do.
Speaker 1: We think that will have a three D virtual world,
Speaker 1: according to job postings on Apple's site and Bloomberg's reporting,
Speaker 1: and a video service is going to be a key feature.
Speaker 1: Keep watching. Sticking with virtual and the metaverse, Nike announcing
Speaker 1: an online store for trading and purchase of virtual sneakers.
Speaker 1: Bear with me on this one. This is dot swoosh,
Speaker 1: where you can go to the platform and it's the
Speaker 1: latest bet from a Key's management on the metaverse all
Speaker 1: for a marketplace on digital sneakers. That's your talking tech Caroline.
Speaker 1: Someone somewhere still caring about that metaverse, but caring about
Speaker 1: those n f T s that are related to it
Speaker 1: and Nike among them, Top Swoosh, I love it ed,
Speaker 1: this is a bloom meg Technology and Ludlow there in
Speaker 1: San Francisco. I'm Caroline Hyde in New York and before
Speaker 1: we go out to you, we want to be discussing
Speaker 1: how geopolitic politics front and center this week, G twenty
Speaker 1: upon us. It appears that the US and China relationship
Speaker 1: it's kind of warming up. Is that what you're watching? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're trying to read the markets because the on camera
Speaker 1: relationship between Biden and g might be a little different
Speaker 1: to what we're hearing from inside China and Chinese officials.
Speaker 1: You look at the technology sector a lot of red
Speaker 1: on the board to start the week, but it was
Speaker 1: actually the US listed China a d r s that
Speaker 1: did better outperform. Looking at the NAZ that Golden Dragon
Speaker 1: China index on camera, there's a warming of relationships going
Speaker 1: into this meeting. We were super focused on semiconductors. The
Speaker 1: socks actually closing down one percent because a lot of
Speaker 1: what policy action from the US has focused on is
Speaker 1: curving technology exports chip exports to China. Now that's on camera.
Speaker 1: Off camera, we actually got a pretty blunt state from
Speaker 1: from the Chinese Foreign Ministry that pointed out, referring to
Speaker 1: existing US policy, that starting a trade war or technology
Speaker 1: war is not what China wants to be doing right now.
Speaker 1: They're talking about it not being in the best interests
Speaker 1: of the economy. So even though we had a very
Speaker 1: sort of public show of affection between the two nations,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of concern here about what the US
Speaker 1: is doing to curb technology exports to China, and China's
Speaker 1: tech sector has been here it's a clear global laggage.
Speaker 1: You look at the Hang Seng Tech Index for example,
Speaker 1: those are Hong Kong listed Chinese tech stocks. It's really
Speaker 1: lags behind tech stocks, not just in the United States,
Speaker 1: but in Europe as well. November has been better. We've
Speaker 1: seen a recover very in that sector in China, big
Speaker 1: part of that being the easing of COVID zero policy
Speaker 1: in China. But the issue around US curbing chip technology
Speaker 1: exports to United States still kind of top of mind
Speaker 1: when it comes to the relationship between the two nations,
Speaker 1: even if the macro or the economic picture is improving slightly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and really well put, and let's just go even more
Speaker 1: broad with that relationship. Because President Biden Jijing paying of course,
Speaker 1: did meet for about three hours we understand in Bali, Indonesia,
Speaker 1: and look, they did agree on a series of good
Speaker 1: will gestures, but there were still some areas of disagreement.
Speaker 1: To take a listen, I've made it clear to President
Speaker 1: Jijimping that I thought they had an obligational attempt to
Speaker 1: make it clear to North Korea that they should not
Speaker 1: engage and long range nuclear tests. And I made it
Speaker 1: clear as well that if they did, they meaning North Korea,
Speaker 1: that we would have to take certain actions that would
Speaker 1: be more defensive on our behalf, and it would not
Speaker 1: be directed against North Korea. I'm assuming we're not being
Speaker 1: directed against China, but it will be to send him
Speaker 1: a clear message to North Korea. Concerns about North Korea,
Speaker 1: concerns about of course Russia, Ukraine, and then the ongoing
Speaker 1: concerns about economic ties. Let's go back into the whole
Speaker 1: chip sector. Now, a blue bags Debbie Wou, who typically
Speaker 1: is in Taipei. She's visiting US right now. She's in
Speaker 1: San Francisco. And Debbie go back to what seemed to
Speaker 1: be a real effort from both the Biden camp and
Speaker 1: Sejing Things camp to try and warm up relations to
Speaker 1: at least start ties once again, relationships to be a
Speaker 1: little bit better and progressive. Is that going to help
Speaker 1: the chip sector a little? Perhaps so? Prot Biden said
Speaker 1: today that he didn't see the need for a year
Speaker 1: new court war after a meeting with Chinese Theaterial City
Speaker 1: Team ping. But what we have seen over past a
Speaker 1: few months, it's also a little bit worrying because US
Speaker 1: US veiled sweeping restrictions in early Act all bird to
Speaker 1: restrict China's access to UH chip technologies, and Washington also
Speaker 1: wants allies including the Netherlands and Japan to come on
Speaker 1: board to help suppress China's development of a domestic chip
Speaker 1: industry at home. And as to how this will well
Speaker 1: build out, I think we need a little bit more
Speaker 1: time to see what happens after Biden and and she's
Speaker 1: meeting earlier today and then uh Brien Biden is also
Speaker 1: a plane too, sent the Secretary of State UH Anthony
Speaker 1: Lincoln to China early next year to sort of help
Speaker 1: resume a collaboration on a series of issues including a
Speaker 1: climate change and food security and whether are the two
Speaker 1: countries my warm lea take from I think we all
Speaker 1: have to await and see that. It's interesting. We talked
Speaker 1: about the on camera relationship between President Biden Energy and
Speaker 1: then the off camera statements from China's foreign ministry. But
Speaker 1: the reality is that in the background, the United States
Speaker 1: has been trying to get allies on board as as
Speaker 1: to participate right in in technology export curbs. How do
Speaker 1: they go about convincing their allies to participate so to
Speaker 1: Two senior US officials are expected to visit the Netherlands
Speaker 1: this month to speak with their Dutch counterpart about expo
Speaker 1: control issues, although there is no deal expected out of
Speaker 1: this new round of talks. And at the same time,
Speaker 1: though American officials has repeatedly said in public that if
Speaker 1: allies do not come on board with the UH to
Speaker 1: UH sort of aligned with the US on the latest
Speaker 1: extra control measures, that the what the US has in
Speaker 1: its tool boxes to ban the sales of foreign chip
Speaker 1: production equipment that contains even the smallest amounts of American
Speaker 1: technology to China, so that's what the US can do.
Speaker 1: So clearly there's the implicit threat from Washington that the
Speaker 1: consulant l a UH course or forced the ELLI to
Speaker 1: do some things. Although right now what we see is
Speaker 1: it seems like the balminisiation still wants UH allies to
Speaker 1: kind of like more collaborate rather than sort of single
Speaker 1: hendly being forced by US to UH go towerlet direction
Speaker 1: Debbie is interesting. Of course, later this week we have
Speaker 1: in video with its numbers, its revenue coming from China,
Speaker 1: a deep relationship there. How much have you seen the
Speaker 1: knock on effects of the steps taken so far by
Speaker 1: the administration, and how much Corporate America and indeed Corporate
Speaker 1: China been speaking out against it so well in video
Speaker 1: together with several other U S CHIP firms have said
Speaker 1: that the latest expert control measures will cause them millions
Speaker 1: or even billions of dollars in ourselves UH in the
Speaker 1: Chinese market. So clearly they would hope to see a
Speaker 1: bit more UH lostening up restrictions in the future. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, in the media's case, they help.
Speaker 1: What they are trying to do is to sort of
Speaker 1: design are a new set of products that can sort
Speaker 1: of meet the US expo export control thresholds, so that
Speaker 1: way they can continue to do our business in China
Speaker 1: uh and minimize impact from our The latest US rules
Speaker 1: were definitely into those numbers come sixteenth three. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, de w As always. Meanwhile, back here in
Speaker 1: the United States, let's just talk about a virtual health platform,
Speaker 1: maven Clinic, because it's just raised ninety million dollars, bringing
Speaker 1: it's funding now up to in excess of three million.
Speaker 1: As it expands the care for women and family health.
Speaker 1: It's a seriously got led by general catalysts as well
Speaker 1: as CBS Health ventchers to name but a few of
Speaker 1: the players. I was lucky enough to catch up with
Speaker 1: Mayven Clinic CEO Cape Writer exclusively about her vision for
Speaker 1: the growing company and men of course his tech layoffs
Speaker 1: and the economic uncertainty. What we represent in terms of
Speaker 1: an investment is not just kind of you know, reducing
Speaker 1: health care costs um for tilly image are some of
Speaker 1: the top costs um you know, at at companies and
Speaker 1: and so certainly we we have that as part of
Speaker 1: our value proposition, but really it's about investing in diversity
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion, and I think that's still very top
Speaker 1: of mind for for a lot of employers. And so
Speaker 1: you know, given if they're looking at where to prioritize,
Speaker 1: you know that we have a double bottom line value
Speaker 1: proposition of book cost reduction as well as improving d E. I.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're also that the labor market may be
Speaker 1: loosening up, but we're still at a time where you know,
Speaker 1: there's been the lowest rates of female participation in the
Speaker 1: workforce in decades, and you know, and from an inclusion
Speaker 1: and belonging standpoint, I think employers are still trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how to build those strategies and so maybe
Speaker 1: in supports across all those fronts. So interesting, So you
Speaker 1: don't feel that there might be any wavering from a
Speaker 1: leadership perspective in businesses to be thinking about d I
Speaker 1: at the time that the pendulum slightnes swings. From an
Speaker 1: economic perspective, you know, we've we've certainly seen a few
Speaker 1: of our of our prospects this year um in our
Speaker 1: pipeline high to say okay, we're going to pull back
Speaker 1: a little bit, We're not going to invest. But but no,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that when you do have to
Speaker 1: make tough decisions around labor force and and and you know,
Speaker 1: driving layoff and putting out layoffs, you also want to
Speaker 1: deliver some good news alongside of that, and uh and
Speaker 1: and make sure that you're you're continuing to build a
Speaker 1: really strong culture and take care of the people you had.
Speaker 1: And so you know, maybe maybe is a is a
Speaker 1: way to do that and enhancing benefits here for for
Speaker 1: working families. Is it's certainly one way to do that.
Speaker 1: I mean even internally, UM, for us, it's it's something
Speaker 1: we think about. Yeah, talk up to us about how
Speaker 1: you're thinking internally at the moment your own people. Are
Speaker 1: you hiring freeze? Is a hiring freeze? Are you still hiring?
Speaker 1: How you looking to expand the team or have to
Speaker 1: cut it? Yeah, no, we're not. We're very fortunate UM
Speaker 1: where we are continuing to grow not quite as aggressively
Speaker 1: maybe as we would have grown in UM. And we
Speaker 1: are really kind of looking at where every single dollar
Speaker 1: is spent. I think every single business now, UM, you
Speaker 1: know is really sharpening those pencils and ensuring that if
Speaker 1: if they're not are already profitable, that you are on
Speaker 1: that path And and and certainly your core products are UM.
Speaker 1: But for us UM, you know, we we are still
Speaker 1: in in in high growth mode and so we're able
Speaker 1: to you know, we're expecting to grow our our head
Speaker 1: count by twenty next year. UM. Not across UM you know,
Speaker 1: all teams, but certainly you know our core product engineering,
Speaker 1: clinical teams. UM. We will still be hiring quite a bit.
Speaker 1: And that's okay when you're thinking of your people and
Speaker 1: also recompensing them. What about an exit strategy here? You're
Speaker 1: not worth in the billions You've just raised another funding around.
Speaker 1: You're good in terms of money raised, But do you
Speaker 1: look at the public markets and think, what is our
Speaker 1: exit strategy here? Or is it not not entering the
Speaker 1: head Well, I can tell you I'm very happy that
Speaker 1: we're not a public company right now, UM, but I
Speaker 1: think absolutely that is in our future when it's the
Speaker 1: right time. I don't think it's an end event in
Speaker 1: and of itself. But for us, you know, I do
Speaker 1: think that we are in the very early innings of
Speaker 1: of of innovation in healthcare, of digital health, of women's
Speaker 1: and family health, and so you know, I think the
Speaker 1: world needs big for profit, a political healthcare companies that
Speaker 1: are just deeply focused on underserved populations like we are
Speaker 1: UM and so you know we we want to stay
Speaker 1: independent and continue to grow and probably eventually exit UM
Speaker 1: in the in the public markets when the time's right,
Speaker 1: mayven Clinic CEO Kate right of that coming up, we
Speaker 1: are joined by an early investor in f t X.
Speaker 1: See thinking now this is bad. No one can protect
Speaker 1: a bad player, to be very frank, um, Well, if
Speaker 1: a guy is very good at lying, and it's very
Speaker 1: good at just pretending to be one night, well he's not.
Speaker 1: Somebody wants Violet the law. The law is not going
Speaker 1: to prevent that. The law can help to reduce that UM.
Speaker 1: As the industry players, we should be more vocal about it.
Speaker 1: We should, we should set very transgenders for the industry.
Speaker 1: Finance CEO CZ throwing a little bit of shade there
Speaker 1: at f t X and indeed the bad actors the
Speaker 1: G twenty summit over in Balley. He went on to
Speaker 1: say that clearer crypto standards are more important than ever.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the shade being throne, about how investors
Speaker 1: feel sunny seeing former chief commercial officer of a bit
Speaker 1: pay who invested in ft X when the round was
Speaker 1: volluing the company about sixteen billion, and went on to
Speaker 1: raise another load of money at a thirty two billion
Speaker 1: dollars or thereabouts valuation. Overall sunny, do you feel there's
Speaker 1: a lot of still water to go under a bridge,
Speaker 1: a lot of learnings to be made. But do you
Speaker 1: think he's a liar? Do you think in some way
Speaker 1: that he was a bad actor? What do you make
Speaker 1: of your investment? Yeah? I think he uh, he got
Speaker 1: a little over his head. I think. You know, the
Speaker 1: team is very young. That's the first thing you know
Speaker 1: us when you meet people from ft X, they're all
Speaker 1: very young, kind of inexperienced. You know, Sam had worked
Speaker 1: a couple of years at a hedgephone and a quantrator
Speaker 1: maybe something like that, and all of a sudden, now
Speaker 1: he's running a sixteen billion dollar global company that was
Speaker 1: hiring people all over the world. So it's very tough
Speaker 1: to manage. And normally companies like that you see you know, Mackenzie,
Speaker 1: contol X, McKenzie people working their executives at Harvard Business
Speaker 1: School people and none of those people were there, which
Speaker 1: is a very young team that was very well. They're
Speaker 1: all great people and they worked seven and so I'm
Speaker 1: not sure what they knew, what Sam was doing and
Speaker 1: all that, but that that's how it ended up where
Speaker 1: it is today. Unfortunately, when you sat down with Sam
Speaker 1: and he pitched his vision to you and you decided
Speaker 1: to invest, what was it about him that pushed you
Speaker 1: to invest? Was it data? Empirical analysis? Was it him? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I have met Sam once on a call we
Speaker 1: were doing trying to explain the crypto payments as and
Speaker 1: while I was at bit pay, and we spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time together on that, and I spent a
Speaker 1: lot more time with the rest of his team actually,
Speaker 1: And so when they were raising around, they invited me
Speaker 1: if I wanted to invest, and the deck they sent
Speaker 1: me it was actually pretty white for a sixteen billion
Speaker 1: dollar around. It was only ten slides, but one of
Speaker 1: the slides happened to say that in one will do
Speaker 1: one point two billion of revenue, eight hundred million of
Speaker 1: net income and only a hundred employees. That really was
Speaker 1: the selling point actually, and what they were doing, so
Speaker 1: that was premarkable. What was absent from that deck was
Speaker 1: any mention of Alameda Research or FTX tokens. What do
Speaker 1: you feel now, Sonny? So I feel a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know. Again, I didn't invest two hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: in ways coated and only have to answer to my wife. Um,
Speaker 1: so it's a little different that way. I'm more much
Speaker 1: more important. Yes, I'm more upset for the industry and
Speaker 1: what happened. It's another black eye. Obviously there were some
Speaker 1: red flags, but in investing, people go with momentum. Anyways,
Speaker 1: it was more that he really preached himself as the
Speaker 1: leader of this whole movement, working with regulators and all that.
Speaker 1: And I went to the f t X conference which
Speaker 1: was in Bahamas last year, which is very professionally done.
Speaker 1: F t X is going to be an investor in
Speaker 1: my new company I'm launching pretty soon. So I really
Speaker 1: allowed trust and faith in them, and I love the team.
Speaker 1: The teamwork seven, they are great people. They're hustling and
Speaker 1: they all unfortunately probably lost everything and equity and all that.
Speaker 1: So it is a shame what happened, but it's more
Speaker 1: a black eye for the industry and we need to
Speaker 1: we keep shooting ourselves in the foot again. Bitcoin didn't
Speaker 1: fail us, right, Bitcoin, the crypto companies, crypto currencies were
Speaker 1: all fine. It was bad actors doing bad things. Again,
Speaker 1: which is why bitcoin was creating the first place. Sonny,
Speaker 1: you just said, I think that ft X is an
Speaker 1: investor in your new company. What was that experience like,
Speaker 1: because there's been some remarkable reporting coming from Antonio Bloomberg
Speaker 1: about how that seemed very muddied at the time of
Speaker 1: where the money and the funds were coming from. Did
Speaker 1: you get the money from an f t X related
Speaker 1: in the play institution? Yeah, so we never actually called
Speaker 1: that money at luckily so we never had to worry
Speaker 1: about that um. But yes, that is gonna be half
Speaker 1: to unravel. F t X slash Almeda, by the way,
Speaker 1: is an investor in many companies throughout the crypto industry.
Speaker 1: And how that unwindes now we're not sure. And what
Speaker 1: does f t X do with all the tokens they
Speaker 1: owned to like Salanta tokens own several bi down and
Speaker 1: Salant tokens. If they have to unload all that, what
Speaker 1: happens to the Salanta market and things like that. So
Speaker 1: there's a lot of companies that have f t X
Speaker 1: slash Almeda again on the captain, I think al Meda
Speaker 1: invested in more companies than f t X UM And
Speaker 1: what happens with all that remains to be seen. However
Speaker 1: you recalibrates it, then have you had to reevaluate everything
Speaker 1: that you know and think about this industry. So I've
Speaker 1: been in crypto for eight years, so nine years probably now,
Speaker 1: so we've seen a lot of Upton downs and again
Speaker 1: not your keys, not your coins are becoming more of
Speaker 1: a saying again. And the thing about f t X
Speaker 1: was it wasn't why do we use by a lot
Speaker 1: of people, especially in America. It was more used by
Speaker 1: kind of hedge fund crypto funds offshore that we're doing
Speaker 1: a lot of trading and all that, and they had
Speaker 1: a great user experience. So they're the ones that are
Speaker 1: going to get hit. So I don't see it affecting
Speaker 1: many other crypto companies throughout the world like coin based, Gemni,
Speaker 1: hit pay Crap and et cetera, all the order companies.
Speaker 1: Never FIC just came out in the last three years.
Speaker 1: We didn't have a chance to even work with them.
Speaker 1: We didn't They came on so fast, and so unfortunately
Speaker 1: the last three years, what's happened this cycle is all
Speaker 1: about leverage and that never happened six years ago. That's
Speaker 1: a new thing that's created in the industry now, which
Speaker 1: again didn't need to happen, which again is us shooting
Speaker 1: ourselves in the foot. I feel like, well, we saw
Speaker 1: this conversation talking about how you invested in SPF. You
Speaker 1: have also sought to raise money for your own ventures.
Speaker 1: Do you just c vcs canceling meetings now? Yes, So
Speaker 1: the traditional silicon vale vcs are spooped, to say the least,
Speaker 1: crypto vcs aren't as much spoop because they see this
Speaker 1: as Bitcoin performed. Well, it wasn't Bitcoin's fall. This was
Speaker 1: a bad actor and this is why bitcoin was created
Speaker 1: to help prevent these types of things and unfortunate when
Speaker 1: we got hit by that. So they believe bitcoin will
Speaker 1: be a hundred thousand dollars the next three years, and
Speaker 1: so they have big funds, all right, So they're investing
Speaker 1: still at the same pace. That's their belief and all that.
Speaker 1: Traditional silicon by vcs are much more hesitant now to
Speaker 1: invest in crypto companies. Actually we're seeing that and they're
Speaker 1: investing there. Hasn't en us in anything right now, So
Speaker 1: it's silicon value dcs anyways right now, Sonny, almost the
Speaker 1: failure here was the centralization of decentralized crypto, and I'm
Speaker 1: interested in therefore, when we see a cz trying to
Speaker 1: be the new white knight, is that the way in
Speaker 1: which the industry resurrects itself another centralized position there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that that is the big question, right, And that's
Speaker 1: the problem, right. And you know, Binance, funny enough, was
Speaker 1: the one three or four years ago the regulators hid
Speaker 1: the most. Actually they are the ones having all the
Speaker 1: issues with the regulators. And coin Base was kind of
Speaker 1: the golds there, and f t X was new on
Speaker 1: the scene trying to become like coin Base and saying
Speaker 1: we're not finance, we're like coin based and all that,
Speaker 1: and so c Z, I think, you know, was always
Speaker 1: buying in a bad with the regulators, and now he's
Speaker 1: coming on as this white knight. But you know, he's
Speaker 1: still got to buy and still have a lot of
Speaker 1: issues to sort out with regulators too. So I don't
Speaker 1: think they're the savior. The savior is higher having proper governance,
Speaker 1: getting regular regulations involved in Unfortunately, I think regulations will
Speaker 1: probably happen, but they'll probably overdo it, which I guess
Speaker 1: is better than not doing it. So I think we'll
Speaker 1: see that coming probably the next year or so. Really
Speaker 1: great to get your personal anecdotes, your professional take, and indeed,
Speaker 1: well thank you for coming on when you're still being
Speaker 1: raising money for your own new venture. We thank you
Speaker 1: so much, former chief commank you guys very much a
Speaker 1: bit pay come back with the new company that you're with. Well,
Speaker 1: if you haven't checked out what's trending on Twitter, if
Speaker 1: you failed to notice all the TikTok's and the instagram
Speaker 1: reels about it, well you should have known that it
Speaker 1: was a record breaking weekend for the box office of
Speaker 1: Black Panther Wakanda Forever. It's a past all expectations. A
Speaker 1: d eighty million dollars taken in here in the United
Speaker 1: States alone, three million dollars raked in worldwide. Now, this
Speaker 1: makes it the best ever opening at the box office
Speaker 1: from the month of November. Now, it's about thirteenth in
Speaker 1: line if you're looking and opening weekends overall. And let's
Speaker 1: stack it up to how it's helped the likes of
Speaker 1: theater change such as AMC. Look, at one point the
Speaker 1: shares popped as much as about nine percent or so,
Speaker 1: they came back down. That's still AMC on the highest
Speaker 1: side as people get excited about us returning to the
Speaker 1: theaters getting that popcorn. Let's look at there it compares
Speaker 1: against some of the other Marvel franchises because look, Avengers
Speaker 1: Endgame cleaned it up. We know that born in three
Speaker 1: hundred fifty seven million dollars. And actually it's still below
Speaker 1: the takings for the opening weekend of Black Panther itself. Nevertheless,
Speaker 1: a great turnout overall. And and really my key question
Speaker 1: is have you watched it yet? I have not, but
Speaker 1: it's on the weekend list. Carrot, you wan't say my
Speaker 1: word for it, That does it. For this edition of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Technology Tuesday, we have Andrea Warney to discuss how
Speaker 1: vcs are recalculating valuations of crypto ferns. And do not
Speaker 1: forget check out our podcast because we are everywhere you
Speaker 1: want to be socially. Look at the terminal you go
Speaker 1: to Apple, Spotify, I Heart if you want to have
Speaker 1: us in our audio version. But for now, from New York,
Speaker 1: from San Francisco, this brave new world of a new
Speaker 1: tech show. This is Bloomberg