1
00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,960
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,200
Speaker 1: Steve Rich and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and

3
00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,400
Speaker 1: there's Chuck and it's just us today because we left

4
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,599
Speaker 1: Jerry back in Vegas and one of us has to

5
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,079
Speaker 1: go get her and we haven't cost a coin yet

6
00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,880
Speaker 1: to see who's who that's going to be. I'm not

7
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,720
Speaker 1: going back to Vegas. I'm not either. The smoky casinos

8
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:35,680
Speaker 1: destroyed my already weary, allergy ridden throat. Yeah, it wasn't

9
00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 1: pleasant for my throat either. But we should probably tell

10
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,559
Speaker 1: everybody why we were inhaling secondhand cigarette smoke in Las

11
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,360
Speaker 1: Vegas recently and why Jerry is still there. Go ahead, well,

12
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 1: it's because we were honored this year by the Podcast

13
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 1: Academies ambi's basically the Oscars of podcasting with the Governor's Award,

14
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 1: which basically says, hey, you've been at this for a

15
00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,959
Speaker 1: while and we think you're doing a pretty good job,

16
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,960
Speaker 1: and why don't you think about hanging it up? And

17
00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,200
Speaker 1: here's an award on the way out the door, right

18
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,399
Speaker 1: And we were like, but we're a big career and

19
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,600
Speaker 1: they're like, nope, too late, you got the award. You've

20
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 1: accepted it. You have to stop now. Yeah, it was

21
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 1: really cool. It's kind of a lifetime achievement. And we've

22
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,640
Speaker 1: gotten a Webby or two here and there and some

23
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,039
Speaker 1: other things that you know, it's always nice to get

24
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 1: those things, but this felt like a genuine honor and

25
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,399
Speaker 1: like the one that we should go pick up in person.

26
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,759
Speaker 1: And we had a great time and a epic dinner

27
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,800
Speaker 1: celebration dinner afterward with Jerry and her friend and and

28
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,800
Speaker 1: my friend and Nathan who does our marketing, and it

29
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,880
Speaker 1: was just a really great celebration. It really was. It

30
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,080
Speaker 1: was a wonderful experience. So thanks a lot Podcast Academy

31
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,640
Speaker 1: because that was really cool. So it's really neat. Yeah,

32
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,600
Speaker 1: and got heffed? Did you pick They didn't give us

33
00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 1: one on stage because they're mailing them. But did you

34
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 1: pick that thing up in the green room? No? Did you? Yeah? Dude,

35
00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: it's it's heffed. It's got heffed. I mean it looks

36
00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 1: like it. It's like a genuine bona fide statuette. Yeah.

37
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 1: All my other statues you can blow on them and

38
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,000
Speaker 1: they tip over. You're like, oh it's hollow. Yeah, this

39
00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,960
Speaker 1: one's got halfed. That's awesome. Yeah, thank you again to

40
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 1: the Podcast Academy, and honestly, thank you to everybody who's

41
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 1: ever recognized us with an award. That's really meaningful every time.

42
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,080
Speaker 1: So thanks, Yeah, buddy, Well, and we said this you

43
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 1: know on stage. In fact, you buttoned it up nicely.

44
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,880
Speaker 1: But you know, the listeners or the reason we have

45
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,280
Speaker 1: this career in this job that we've been doing for

46
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,960
Speaker 1: so long. And I know it sounds trite, but like

47
00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,679
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have gotten this award or even be doing

48
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 1: this job if we didn't have the amazing support over

49
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,440
Speaker 1: the years from you guys. Absolutely means a lot. So

50
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 1: we should probably get going on baseball cards, right, Yeah,

51
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,960
Speaker 1: another quick CoA for baseball cards. We have learned over

52
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,840
Speaker 1: the years the hard way that when you do a

53
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 1: topic that is it's just like yeah, it's not like oh,

54
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,359
Speaker 1: ballpoint pins or this or that. When some people are

55
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 1: very passionate about this thing, that we can get ourselves

56
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,400
Speaker 1: into trouble because we get little things wrong here and

57
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,079
Speaker 1: there that they think are major things. So we respect

58
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 1: the baseball card community and just want to not apologize

59
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 1: in advance, but just say that you know, we don't

60
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,080
Speaker 1: know nearly as much about this as you do, so

61
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,840
Speaker 1: so be kind. I think it's well put. I'm just

62
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,280
Speaker 1: going to come out and admit right now, I cannot

63
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,480
Speaker 1: find the difference between a bonus card, an insert and

64
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,040
Speaker 1: a subset card. Okay, they may be all the same thing,

65
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,520
Speaker 1: but I am terrified that there's a slight difference and

66
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 1: that we're going to get chewed up for it. Well,

67
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,680
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that we were going to be

68
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 1: comparing those three things. So I'm in big trouble. Did

69
00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,280
Speaker 1: you collect baseball cards as a youth? Here's my deal

70
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,800
Speaker 1: is I have somewhere a box of probably I don't

71
00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 1: even want to hazard a guess, maybe five hundred, two hundred,

72
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,880
Speaker 1: let's say two hundred cards of different kinds. Have some

73
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 1: old Star Wars card So I've got a few football cards. Yeah,

74
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,200
Speaker 1: I have some baseball cards, but I was never a collector.

75
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,640
Speaker 1: I would just get them as any kid who wasn't like,

76
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,000
Speaker 1: oh I need to start collecting something gets them, which

77
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 1: is like, oh, sure they're in the stocking, or might

78
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,159
Speaker 1: buy one here or there. But to answer your question, no,

79
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,200
Speaker 1: I was never like a collector of baseball cards or

80
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 1: any card. That Star Wars card thing. Sounds familiar. I

81
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 1: think you talked about did you discover your collection again

82
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,839
Speaker 1: recently in the last couple of years or something? Not

83
00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,720
Speaker 1: recently recently, but I could see we've been doing this

84
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 1: a long time, my friend. Yeah, recently, meaning like since

85
00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:44,560
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. Yeah, we've been doing how long

86
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,839
Speaker 1: have we been doing this show Governor's Award? Long? Is

87
00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,920
Speaker 1: what I'm just gonna say from now on. So okay,

88
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 1: So I actually was a collector. I was a kid

89
00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,719
Speaker 1: collector in that like every month I could not wait

90
00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 1: for the new back Price Guide to come out. That

91
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,560
Speaker 1: to me was like the Bible. Wow. Um, I had

92
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,479
Speaker 1: friends that would like steal cards from me, like a

93
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 1: real collector at like age eleven twelve? Right now, Why

94
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,039
Speaker 1: because you weren't that into baseball, were you? No? No, No,

95
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:19,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't. There's something different. You don't have to be

96
00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,960
Speaker 1: into baseball to really be into baseball cards. It's a

97
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,520
Speaker 1: really weird thing. Like it's impossible not to know a

98
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,039
Speaker 1: lot more about baseball than you otherwise would if you

99
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,039
Speaker 1: weren't collecting baseball cards, but means, well, no thing about it.

100
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:35,719
Speaker 1: So like if you weren't, if you were, if you

101
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,839
Speaker 1: were just into flying kites. Okay, you'd probably know almost

102
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 1: nothing about baseball if you weren't into baseball. But you

103
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,720
Speaker 1: can collect baseball cards and you're gonna know a lot

104
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,560
Speaker 1: more about baseball and baseball players, and you would if

105
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,480
Speaker 1: you were just into kites. But that doesn't mean you're

106
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 1: actually you want to sit down and watch a baseball

107
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 1: game given time. Yeah, yeah, I get you. Baseball cards

108
00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,320
Speaker 1: are like that. It's really weird. I think that the

109
00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 1: majority of people who collect baseball cards are into baseball,

110
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 1: but it's not requisite. Yeah. When I went through mine

111
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,680
Speaker 1: recently out because I guess it was semi recently, because

112
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:10,760
Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder if you know I have

113
00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,080
Speaker 1: some gem in here worth twenty grand and I didn't.

114
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,080
Speaker 1: I think the best card I had was a Wade

115
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,000
Speaker 1: Bogs rookie not wasn't a rookie, but it was like

116
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,720
Speaker 1: a first year card. But that's a no. No No, no,

117
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,039
Speaker 1: a first year like in the big league's card, not

118
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,719
Speaker 1: like their rookie Minor league card or whatever. No, it

119
00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,800
Speaker 1: was the first year in the Big zis the rookie card.

120
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't worth anything, Let's put it that way. So

121
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 1: you're like, please, don't want to end this conversation. Yeah,

122
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,560
Speaker 1: because I looked it up and I think I sent

123
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 1: it to my friend who's a Red Sox fan. I

124
00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:45,479
Speaker 1: was like, here you go, you can have this. Oh

125
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 1: that was kind of you. Yeah. I discovered my old collection.

126
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,040
Speaker 1: I had several hundred, and they were just loose. Any

127
00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,080
Speaker 1: good ones I started to go through. I was like,

128
00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,920
Speaker 1: I don't feel like doing this, so I just donated,

129
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,720
Speaker 1: well because I knew that they there weren't any like

130
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 1: amazingly ridiculously valuable ones, in part because when I was

131
00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,239
Speaker 1: collecting it was smack dab in the middle of what's

132
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 1: called the junk era of baseball cards. Yeah, because the

133
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,320
Speaker 1: market was so flooded. We'll talk all about it. But

134
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 1: to me, Chuck, just researching this and going back and

135
00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 1: seeing like the design of some of those cards, like

136
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,760
Speaker 1: seeing how Don Mattingly is like like just in the

137
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,320
Speaker 1: midst of like tossing his bat to run to first base,

138
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,360
Speaker 1: and like in nineteen eighty eight tops card, Like just

139
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 1: seeing these things. It's just these neural pathways that haven't

140
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 1: been like stimulated in decades are going off, and I'm

141
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 1: just like in nostalgia Heaven looking at all this stuff.

142
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,960
Speaker 1: Because I forgot school. Well all of it looked like.

143
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 1: So it's been kind of a nice little journey down

144
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,960
Speaker 1: the yellow brick road. But I want to circle back

145
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,680
Speaker 1: to our CoA and say that doesn't mean that I

146
00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 1: remember like all the ins and outs either. Yeah, I'm

147
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,520
Speaker 1: no expert. I just was a big time fan back

148
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: in the day. That's cool. That surprises me too, but

149
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 1: I love it. Another little Josh factoid to stick in

150
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,920
Speaker 1: my hip pocket. We need a little jingle for that,

151
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 1: like we have for Colon. So we're going to kind

152
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 1: of breeze through the earliest days of baseball card trading.

153
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,800
Speaker 1: So we're not in here for two hours. But the earliest,

154
00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,640
Speaker 1: earliest sort of ancestors of baseball cards were trade cards

155
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 1: that you know today you might see a business that

156
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,560
Speaker 1: hands out a calendar with like the local sports team

157
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 1: or something, or refrigerator magnet or something. These are kind

158
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,200
Speaker 1: of what trade cards were. They were business cards and

159
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,040
Speaker 1: they said, hey, why don't we just stick something interesting

160
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 1: on here so people will keep it. And sometimes that

161
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,840
Speaker 1: became a baseball player or a baseball team. And these

162
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 1: cards weren't. I mean, I guess there may be a

163
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,600
Speaker 1: market for them in some circles. But it's not like

164
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,720
Speaker 1: this is considered like a tradeable baseball card today. I

165
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,520
Speaker 1: don't think, right, No, I think that there's probably there's

166
00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,800
Speaker 1: collectors out there who collect that in the same way

167
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 1: there's people out there who collect like old timey potato

168
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,560
Speaker 1: chip tunes, you know what I mean. It's like super antique,

169
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 1: and I think it's probably a niche market in the

170
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,320
Speaker 1: baseball card market, you know what I mean, Yes, but

171
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,240
Speaker 1: they are. It's questionable whether you can be like, this

172
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 1: is a baseball card, and there are a lot of

173
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,040
Speaker 1: people kind of putting baseball teams and baseball players on

174
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,559
Speaker 1: things at around the same time. So there's a lot

175
00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:36,000
Speaker 1: of different competing first baseball card ever, but the one

176
00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:41,120
Speaker 1: that usually gets pointed to is an eighteen sixty nine

177
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,080
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Red Stockings card by Peck and Snyder, who were

178
00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 1: and apparently still are a sporting goods manufacturer who took

179
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,920
Speaker 1: a team photo super Victorian. There's like heavy curtains on

180
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 1: the edges of the photo and everything super Cepia, I mean,

181
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,520
Speaker 1: just Cepia to the max. And then on the back

182
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,000
Speaker 1: there's like a drawing in an advertisement for Peck and

183
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:09,080
Speaker 1: Snyder's location on Nassau Street in New York, and a

184
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,959
Speaker 1: lot of people are like, this is this is really it?

185
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,040
Speaker 1: This is the genuine progenitor of the baseball card. Yeah,

186
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,480
Speaker 1: and that one, I believe, and Ed helped us out

187
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,200
Speaker 1: with this one he found that was valued at a

188
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 1: couple hundred grand. Certainly no slouch card wise, right if

189
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: you happen to have this one. In the eighteen eighties

190
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,760
Speaker 1: is when things really kind of started taking shape, and

191
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:35,400
Speaker 1: that's when tobacco got involved. There was a farmer named

192
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,400
Speaker 1: James Buchanan Duke who started putting just cardboard cards and

193
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,319
Speaker 1: cigarette packs to keep them from getting you know, bin

194
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,960
Speaker 1: up and stuff when you sit on them. And they

195
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,280
Speaker 1: started printing pictures of things on those cards to make

196
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,320
Speaker 1: them interesting. And sometimes it might be a movie star

197
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,200
Speaker 1: and sometimes it might be a sports star. And I

198
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 1: believe in eighteen eighty six is when the old Judge

199
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 1: cigarette company started including baseball players. And this is also

200
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,280
Speaker 1: looked at as a kind of a milestone for a

201
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,720
Speaker 1: couple of reasons. One was because you got a random

202
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,319
Speaker 1: card that you didn't know you were going to get.

203
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,040
Speaker 1: It's not like it was a cigarette pack for you know,

204
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,160
Speaker 1: I know it was I can't name a baseball player

205
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 1: from Beckton, so I'm not even gonna try. It was random,

206
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 1: just like kids like you later on would buy packs

207
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 1: of cards, like not knowing who you're going to get,

208
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,400
Speaker 1: and the other thing it was called a premium, which

209
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,960
Speaker 1: is basically like this is just an extra thing and

210
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,959
Speaker 1: something you were already buying, right, although I will argue

211
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,480
Speaker 1: that the gum part was not White kids were buying

212
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 1: baseball cards, right. That gum was not good. No, it wasn't.

213
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 1: But that's how baseball cards later on would kind of

214
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,760
Speaker 1: get their their restart well as we'll see, but that

215
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 1: I mean. But so that's kind of how it went

216
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,200
Speaker 1: for about a century. Like they were random and then

217
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,960
Speaker 1: they were extras to what you were buying. An old judge. Actually,

218
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,280
Speaker 1: like you said, I think it was eighteen eighty six

219
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,720
Speaker 1: that they were released their first That set, it's called

220
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 1: the N one sixty seven set is considered the first

221
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 1: official set of baseball cards. Pretty cool. Yeah, so you

222
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 1: can thank cigarette manufacturers for introducing baseball cards to the world.

223
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,079
Speaker 1: But the thing is, it's not like it was like, okay,

224
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,839
Speaker 1: it it just started from there and it just kept

225
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,640
Speaker 1: going and developing. That's not the case, because baseball wasn't

226
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,679
Speaker 1: the only thing that you would find on these cards

227
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:32,160
Speaker 1: and cigarette packs. Eventually, because they were a premium, they

228
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 1: were like, well, here, we want you to have something

229
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,959
Speaker 1: that you actually want. So here's a movie star who

230
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,120
Speaker 1: you've never heard speak out loud. Here is a bird,

231
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,240
Speaker 1: Here is a train. You don't know what train is, Well,

232
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 1: buckle up because you're going to within the next few years.

233
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,400
Speaker 1: It wasn't just baseball players, and it wasn't just baseball

234
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 1: card collecting. That kind of it didn't develop immediately, I guess,

235
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,080
Speaker 1: is what I'm trying to say. There were other like

236
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 1: detours and side tracks and stuff like that. Yeah, and

237
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:03,200
Speaker 1: they you know, these early ones kind of look like

238
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 1: you would think they were black and white. Sometimes they

239
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 1: had a cepia tone. Color. Photography wasn't really a big thing,

240
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,040
Speaker 1: at least a widespread thing at this point, and so

241
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 1: these cards didn't last long. They faded out in sunlight

242
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,600
Speaker 1: and just basically being you know, on planet Earth. They

243
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 1: would degrade because they weren't very high quality, and a

244
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,520
Speaker 1: lot of times they weren't even prints. They were actual

245
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,120
Speaker 1: like photographs that were glued to cardboard. So it's it's

246
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,920
Speaker 1: kind of a quaint early days of baseball card kind

247
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,760
Speaker 1: of thing. The Library of Congress. If you ask them,

248
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,679
Speaker 1: they will say that the first baseball card was a

249
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 1: printed photograph of a baseball team that was a souvenir handout.

250
00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 1: And I'm not one to usually quibble with a Library

251
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,400
Speaker 1: of Congress, but I'm not sure I would count that

252
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,440
Speaker 1: as the first baseball card. Some people do, some people don't.

253
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,240
Speaker 1: I think the one from Um Snyder or Peck and

254
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,760
Speaker 1: Snyder's typically the one that, as collectors think of as

255
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 1: the first one. I'm sure we'll hear from people for sure.

256
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,440
Speaker 1: You so yeah, oh, I know, so Um. There are

257
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,560
Speaker 1: a lot of different um eras in baseball card collecting,

258
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,960
Speaker 1: and they're not they don't necessarily follow chronological order. Weirdly,

259
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 1: they more are referred to by where the cards came from.

260
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:23,720
Speaker 1: And like I was saying, there are a lot of

261
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,720
Speaker 1: blind alleys and sidetracks and just weird, weird evolutions of

262
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,840
Speaker 1: baseball cards. And one of the ways that's evident is

263
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 1: that in the late nineteenth century and early twentieth century,

264
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,440
Speaker 1: there were a lot of different random places that you

265
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 1: would get a baseball card. It wasn't standardized yet, so

266
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,680
Speaker 1: you might get one from the magazine that you subscribe to,

267
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,000
Speaker 1: or from your cigarette pack, or you bought like a

268
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 1: box of biscuits and a baseball baseball card fell out.

269
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:58,280
Speaker 1: So I think I think people who collect those kind

270
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,000
Speaker 1: of cards are okay with things not being particularly standardized

271
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 1: and kind of hurly burly instead, because that's how baseball

272
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 1: cards were kind of kind of like a train just

273
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 1: is kind of like chug, good chug, chug chug, with

274
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 1: each like additional chug. A bunch of new baseball cards

275
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,120
Speaker 1: spat out in different, weird, random places from non existence,

276
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,320
Speaker 1: a lot of train refs so far today, Well, there's

277
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 1: a lot of train stuff going on at the same time.

278
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,640
Speaker 1: Sure it's of the era. Should we take a break?

279
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all right, I'm gonna go study trains, I guess,

280
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 1: so I can keep up and we'll be right back,

281
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,800
Speaker 1: all right. So, if you're looking at a modern baseball

282
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,960
Speaker 1: car card, and you know, we're not jumping forward in

283
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,600
Speaker 1: time that much yet, I'm just kind of talking about

284
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,120
Speaker 1: the labeling of the cards. You're gonna probably see the

285
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 1: company that made it. You're going to see the player's name,

286
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 1: maybe a collector's number on the card if there was one,

287
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,840
Speaker 1: there might be some additional things on there, like you

288
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 1: know how many sets were made that year. It might

289
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 1: be a set name or a subset name, so you

290
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 1: might see something like Ed gave an example two thousand

291
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 1: and four Bowmen Chrome number two sixty four. Hector Himenez

292
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 1: is like the official sort of name of the card, right,

293
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,280
Speaker 1: so what your god is? The bowman is the maker

294
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 1: of the card. Chrome is the type of card of

295
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,680
Speaker 1: the addition number two sixty four. I'm if I remember correctly,

296
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,120
Speaker 1: that would be Hector Jimenez. Card was two sixty four

297
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 1: in the set of say like three hundred or something

298
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,600
Speaker 1: like that. Okay, Those tobacco sets so we were talking

299
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,960
Speaker 1: about that came with cigarettes are very popular. It's called

300
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,200
Speaker 1: the Tobacco era T sets. So for instance, a list

301
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,000
Speaker 1: of the T two O six, very famous set from

302
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 1: American Tobacco Company. And this was for a couple of

303
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 1: years between O nine and nineteen eleven, and this has

304
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 1: the very legendary the card that you may have heard of.

305
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 1: Even if you know nothing about baseball cards, you've probably

306
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,920
Speaker 1: heard of the Honus Wagner because it is I guess

307
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 1: not the most expensive or valuable baseball cardot all time,

308
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,160
Speaker 1: but maybe the most well known, and it's certainly up there.

309
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 1: I think it was the first baseball card to crack

310
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,280
Speaker 1: one million dollars sail, all the way back in two thousand.

311
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,359
Speaker 1: But one of the reasons why it's so well known

312
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,880
Speaker 1: is because there just weren't that many of them. The

313
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 1: legend goes that Honus Wagner said that he didn't well,

314
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,960
Speaker 1: some people say that he was a posed to tobacco product,

315
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 1: so he didn't want his card being sold within packs

316
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,160
Speaker 1: of cigarettes, And he may or may not have been

317
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,440
Speaker 1: opposed to tobacco. He just said that he didn't want

318
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,920
Speaker 1: his picture in cigarettes. But the real truth is probably

319
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,440
Speaker 1: that he didn't like not being paid for his likeness,

320
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,880
Speaker 1: which was being used to market and sell cigarettes. Now,

321
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 1: regardless either way, there are not that many Honus Wagner

322
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 1: cards T two o six Honus Wagner cards. And then

323
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,359
Speaker 1: one of the other reasons that it's really valuable and

324
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 1: probably overvalued is because of a price guide from nineteen

325
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 1: thirty seven. Right, yeah, there was a price guide that

326
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,399
Speaker 1: it seems like the author who wrote this just himself

327
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:43,600
Speaker 1: could not find this card readily and kind of I

328
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,240
Speaker 1: guess misstated it's rarity because of that, because there are

329
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 1: other much rarer cards that from those sets even then

330
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 1: aren't worth what the Honus Wagner's worth. And then it

331
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,439
Speaker 1: just kind of became one of those things where the

332
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,480
Speaker 1: legend grew of the Honus Wagner card, and it kind

333
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 1: of became famous invaluable because people said it was famous

334
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 1: invaluable right exactly because that T two O six set,

335
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 1: which was I think from nineteen o nine. You can

336
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 1: get cards from that same set for one hundred bucks

337
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,679
Speaker 1: or less today, but then it was yes, but that

338
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 1: Honus Wagner sold most recently for seven point two five

339
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: million dollars in the last few years. So it really

340
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,119
Speaker 1: is just basically it's it's become iconic and legendary just

341
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: because people thought it was rare, and even when they

342
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 1: found out it wasn't that rare, it doesn't matter. It's

343
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: still a Honus Wagner card. Should I buy you a

344
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 1: T two O six card for eighty bucks online? Sure?

345
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 1: A stretchy brown Stash card. Stretchy brown sash. Oh man,

346
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 1: I'm glad we circled back to that because you were,

347
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: like I can't. I can't hazard a guess at a

348
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: name of a player from back then, and I was

349
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 1: like thinking about it, but then the time had passed

350
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 1: and then bam it came back again. So it's way

351
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 1: Brown Stash time. Okay, So that was off the eight

352
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,160
Speaker 1: minutes ago exactly. Okay, very nice way to hang onto that. See,

353
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: you don't throw away jokes, not if they're okay or better,

354
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: because you never know when it might come up. That's

355
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,479
Speaker 1: exactly true, man. And that's not just the case with

356
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 1: jokes too, Chuck. That's the case with just information in general.

357
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 1: Something that may seem trite or boring. Even at one

358
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: moment down the road, you might be like, oh, I

359
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 1: know the answer to that, and then yam, someone's fallen

360
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 1: in love with you. Well, you know it's funny too,

361
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,199
Speaker 1: is you know. I've never done improv, but I know

362
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 1: a lot of improvers, and they all have a little

363
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: hip pocket stuff, you know, like they're they're certainly improving,

364
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: but they all have their little bag of tricks that

365
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 1: they keep in, little gags and jokes and names. And

366
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 1: when we did our TV show, Caitlyn Bits, a guy

367
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: who was played our boss Steve on the show and

368
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: was one of the legit talented actors that surrounded us. Caitlyn,

369
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this, but in one

370
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,120
Speaker 1: of the episodes, she she threw out the name Mike

371
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: Vlasney and that's stuff with me all these years as

372
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,239
Speaker 1: somebody's who's like something something Mike Lasney said? And I

373
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: asked her it just killed me for some reason. It

374
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 1: was just to had a funny ring to it. And

375
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: I asked her after word if she had just made

376
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: that up, and she said, uh, She's like no, She's like,

377
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,399
Speaker 1: I've been using Mike Lasney for years. Good. It's a

378
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: good one. It is a good one. It's like my Todd. Yeah,

379
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: well you true Todd. But now you've got stretchy black

380
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 1: what black brown brown stash. It's good stuff. Hang on

381
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: to it, thank you. Ironically, he was blonde. Oh wow,

382
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 1: See this story gets richer and richer. Yes, and so um,

383
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: let's get back to baseball cart shall we? Yeah? Um?

384
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 1: Oh well hell go ahead? No, no, go ahead? Uh.

385
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: The T two O six was one of the ones

386
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: we were mentioned with the Honus Wagner Uh card. Included

387
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: was one of the last tobacco sets and then World

388
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: War One comes along and kind of puts a halt

389
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 1: on production, because it seemed like warriors back then put

390
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: a halt like World Wars put a stop on lots

391
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: of production of things that weren't needed when you needed

392
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: other things. Not to mention the nineteen nineteen flu pandemic too, right, Sure,

393
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 1: So I saw Chuck somewhere the time between basically nineteen

394
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: hundred and World War One as the golden era of

395
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: baseball card collecting between Waight Ears nineteen hundred and basically

396
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen nineteen sixteen. Oh. Interesting. Yeah, I thought that

397
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: was interesting too, because again, these are the ones that

398
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 1: are like, they follow very little rhyme or reason, like

399
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:40,120
Speaker 1: Nibisco was putting out like baseball cards. It's just weird. Yes,

400
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: they called they're notated with the D and that's your

401
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: bread baseball cards, yeah, or bread like products whatever. Um.

402
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: But apparently that's the golden age of baseball card collecting.

403
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: I disagree. I think when I was collecting, it's the

404
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 1: golden age of baseball card collecting. But it could just

405
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: be my skewed opinion, your first person point of view, right.

406
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: But the thing is, around this time, people started saying like, oh, kids,

407
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: maybe we should stop forcing them to start work at five,

408
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: and maybe we should have a problem with them smoking tobacco.

409
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,959
Speaker 1: And about this time, people said, well, these kids are

410
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: starting to really get into this baseball card thing. They

411
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 1: like baseball, they like things that remind them of baseball,

412
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: so hence their fascination with baseball cards. But I don't

413
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: really think we should be pushing old judge cigarettes on

414
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: them so that they can get their baseball cards. What

415
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: if we package these things with candy? And here was

416
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: a huge, huge step in the evolution of baseball cards. Yeah,

417
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: they said, why try and sell cigarettes to ten year olds.

418
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 1: They shouldn't start smoking till they're twelve, so let's start

419
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 1: putting them in caramel packages and things like that, and

420
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: that kind of birth, some real kind of fun oddity,

421
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: is at least fun to me. Yeah. I don't know

422
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: how the baseball card community looks at this. I can't

423
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: stand it. Oh really, I like things to be standardized

424
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: and follow like a set of rhyme and reason. So

425
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: sometimes these things were round, which is kind of fun,

426
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: I think. And then sometimes, like in the case of

427
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 1: the nineteen twenty American caramel or caramel set, they were

428
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: die cut cards that were just in the shape of

429
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: the player. It was a little cut out of a player. Ah, well,

430
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: hurt your sensibilities. I just don't like it. No, I

431
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: don't like it at all. It's just too random. I

432
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: think it's neat. I know, and I can understand how

433
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: some whoult would. It's my own foible for sure. Yeah,

434
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: I got you. So it was basically like the Wild

435
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: West for baseball cards all the way until about World

436
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: War two, and actually passed World War two. But a

437
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: little after World War two, Bowman, a gum maker, started

438
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: taking over baseball cards. They started adding baseball cards sets,

439
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: they started kind of professionalizing the whole thing, and in

440
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: very short order, another gum maker called Tops said, oh,

441
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: I like what Bowman's doing. They're really like increasing their sales.

442
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: Let's see if we can figure out how to build

443
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: a monopoly out of this, And they actually did. Tops

444
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: had a monopoly on baseball cards, like literally, you could

445
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: not get a baseball card that wasn't a Tops baseball

446
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: card from about the early fifties till about nineteen eighty.

447
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: They were all that they had because Tops had figured

448
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: out that they could go to individual players and say, hey,

449
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: sign this contract so that we're the only one who

450
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: can reproduce your likeness, and we'll give you X number

451
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: of dollars every year. And players would be like, sure,

452
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: why not, I don't have any allegiance to bowmen or

453
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: flear or anything like that. And Tops just dominated the

454
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: market somehow survived an FTC investigation. They were a literal monopoly.

455
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: They would get sued all the time, and they just

456
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: withstood all of it until finally the players Union was like, hey, guys,

457
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: these other companies are willing to pay way more stops

458
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: signing these Tops contracts. And it wasn't until the players

459
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: themselves stop signing these contracts with Tops that the monopoly

460
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: ended up getting broken up in that way. Yeah, I

461
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: think it was just kind of what you did, Like

462
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: you got you went to Major League Baseball and you

463
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: signed with Tops. Was just part of your deals, like

464
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: signing with an agent or whatever. Right now, were there

465
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: not any other companies making cards for nobody baseball players?

466
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: Even I don't know if they were for nobody. The

467
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: way that Ed puts it is that basically you had

468
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: to not even be a prospect in the minor leagues,

469
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 1: like maybe a mascot level player, right. I'm just wondering

470
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: if there were any other Baseball cards aside from Tops

471
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: during that thirty year period. Surely there was something, right,

472
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: not that I understand. There were like football cards, there

473
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 1: were hockey cards, but Baseball seems to have been totally

474
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: locked down by Tops, essentially because think about it. If

475
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: you're safe fleer arrival the Tops and you want to

476
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: put out a baseball card set, but you can only

477
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: sign seven players out of all the players in Major

478
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: League Baseball, Like, you're not even gonna go to the trouble.

479
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna buy it, right, right, So I would guess No,

480
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: I think that it was basically just Tops this whole time,

481
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: as just exclusively with baseball, is all I'm saying. Well,

482
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: what was flearmaking? Were they making other sports cards? Probably

483
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: hockey and football, Yeah, and maybe basketball, because those those

484
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: cards have been I think hockey cards were almost as

485
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: old as baseball cards. They were put in tobacco packs too. Yeah.

486
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is now that I'm remembering my

487
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: pseudo collection, I had a few NBA cards and a

488
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: few NHL cards in there too. Everybody's I know. I

489
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: remember seeing the random toothless hockey player. Uh, you know

490
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: mulitied toothless hockey player. Yep, that is standard issue stuff

491
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: right there. It's pretty good. And I also get the

492
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: same neural pathways when I opened that box. It's like

493
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,959
Speaker 1: it's the best. That's pretty strong stuff. One other thing

494
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: I ran across the chuck is that, ironically, there's a

495
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: company from Italy called Panini, and Panini has a lock

496
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: on the licenses for NBA and NFL until twenty twenty six.

497
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: So Tops got beaten at their own game. They can't

498
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: produce an NFL or NBA official cards until twenty twenty six.

499
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: Now we look at you, Panini locking down the sandwich

500
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: making process and the football cards right this. There's a

501
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: little sidebar it included which I think is interesting, which

502
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: was that you know you mentioned I don't know if

503
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: you actually said it, but Flear sued Tops in nineteen

504
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: seventy five, and a lot of case law has to

505
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: do with baseball cards, including a very interesting side note

506
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: that the whole idea of name and likeness and like

507
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: owning your image and being able to profit from your

508
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: own image and keeping people from profiting from your image

509
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: came from a baseball card case in what nineteen fifty three? Correct, Yeah,

510
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: Halean Laboratories, which is a terrible name for a gummaker,

511
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: but that's who they were. They bought Bowman and Tops

512
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: was poaching their players that they had contracts with, and

513
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: they sued Tops, and Tops argued, look, Bowman doesn't own

514
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: the person's likeness. Yeah, they have a contract with the player.

515
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: But what the player was saying is I won't sue

516
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: you Bowman for making a baseball card with my likeness.

517
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: Not that I'm giving you any ownership over my likeness.

518
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: I'm just waiving my right to sue you with this contract.

519
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: And Top said, you can't see us because you don't

520
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: own the likeness. You can go sue the player, but

521
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: you can't see us. And the court said, you know what,

522
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. It resides in the person, and the

523
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: person not only owns their likeness, but they're able to

524
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: sell it or lease it to third parties. And it

525
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: was all because of baseball cards. It took a little

526
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: while to develop. Remember our legal precedent episode. Oh yeah,

527
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: I think the decision came from the Second Circuit Court

528
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: of Appeals. Um, so it wasn't binding in other courts,

529
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: but it was eventually cited as precedent and spread and

530
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: spread and spread, and then in the seventies it was

531
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: like a thing. Yeah, and boy, talk about a monumental case. Yeah,

532
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: especially these days. I mean, they're the human beings are

533
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: brands these days with influencers and not just influencers but

534
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: I hate even saying that word, but just celebrity image

535
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: or whatever, and that that was a huge, huge case.

536
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, one of the most important

537
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: reasons is it kept like it meant you could profit.

538
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: But I think the big thing was it kept other

539
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: people from being able to steal your image. So if

540
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: you just want to be like a George Clooney class

541
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: act and not put your face on a he probably

542
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: does those ads in Japan and stuff. Though, I bet

543
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: he does presso adds here, Oh does he? Okay, it's

544
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: so weird. It's so random because it's like the only

545
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: thing he does. Yeah, that is weird. Maybe he's just

546
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: into it. I guess I just think classy. I think Clooney,

547
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: that's it just comes out of my mouth. He's cold. Uh.

548
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: Should we take another break on that wonderful joke? Yes,

549
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: all right, we'll talk about the kind of getting into

550
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: the modern era right after this. Okay, Chuck, So this

551
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: guy is my guy that we're going to talk about.

552
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: His name is cy Burger. I say Burger. He codified

553
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: things and you love him for it. He did. That's

554
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: absolutely right. He said, Hey, everybody, let's start acting like

555
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: we actually care about the product that we're putting out

556
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: and standardizing some of this stuff. Let's get the look

557
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: up up to date. Let's, oh, I don't know, put

558
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: the logo of the team on the card, right, Let's

559
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: start using color in normal, coherent fashion, like we are

560
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: all sane. Um. So, Cyberger he was the one. He

561
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: worked for tops appropriately enough, and he did such an

562
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: amazing job that he's set just basically standards that are

563
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: still around today. Yeah. The those stats on the back

564
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: that you love so much, that was Cyberger, the little

565
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: printed signature Cyberger. Yeah, well he wasn't signing them Cibergers

566
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: a card. The size, the three and a half by

567
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: two and a half size became standard in nineteen fifty

568
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: seven because of Cyburger. Well that was a cost saving

569
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: measure too, right, Well, yeah, I mean it, it definitely

570
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: made sense because I think it just that was less

571
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: less waste right on the printing sheets. Yeah, you could

572
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: just more cards per sheet, so you could save some

573
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: money with printing. When you're printing millions of cards, you know,

574
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: the thing is, Chuck is I think also that's another

575
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: reason why I love baseball cards starting in this era,

576
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: because they're all the same size too. It's very much

577
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: like my love for the right size g I Joes

578
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: and not the overly large, weirdo g I Joes of

579
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: the days of your as you hunting me, well, I

580
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: mean I think there's I'm not like particularly m OCD,

581
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: but I have a little bit of that stuff. We've

582
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: talked about it before, and a stacked thing. If there

583
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: are irregularities in that stacked thing, it drives me crazy.

584
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: So I kind of get where you're coming from there. Yeah.

585
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: Imagine like a die cut arm sticking out of your

586
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know how I feel. Oh geez.

587
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: One of the other things about Cyberger's success, Chuck, is

588
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: that it was his transition. This is the nineteen fifty

589
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: two set that his first that debuted his work. I

590
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: guess the first one. Yeah, he was so successful that

591
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: TOPS was like, oh my gosh, like this is amazing.

592
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: Our sales are through the roof. Let's release a second

593
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: set in nineteen fifty two. We'll catch everybody just in

594
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 1: time for the playoffs, so they'll be all super psyched

595
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: about that, and we'll just sell even more than we

596
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: normally do. And they missed the mark. I think they

597
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: came out a little late. They missed playoff fever and

598
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: instead ran into base or football fever, so people weren't

599
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: really interested. So they actually took all of these leftover

600
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: remnant This is like the et the game version of

601
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: baseball cards. They took all of these just overstocked leftover sets,

602
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,919
Speaker 1: and they warehoused them for a few years, I think,

603
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: and finally in nineteen sixty they're like, we're paying for

604
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: these cards that we're never going to do anything with.

605
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: Let's just put them on a barge and dump them

606
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: in the ocean. And they did. They dumped him in

607
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 1: the ocean. It's so strange, like little decisions like that,

608
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: like not to bury them, not to incender him to

609
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: dump them in the ocean, so yeah, not to go

610
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: through them and maybe pick out ones that might be valuable. Exactly, Well,

611
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: that's the thing they didn't know that any of these

612
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: things were going to be valuable, but it just so

613
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: happened that the most expensive, the most valuable baseball card

614
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: of all time, the nineteen fifty two Mickey Mantle, is

615
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: down there at the bottom of the sea in droves.

616
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: But because they're at the bottom of the sea, the

617
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: ones that are top sides still are incredibly rare and

618
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: incredibly valuable, so much so that the nineteen fifty two

619
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: Mickey Mantle sold for twelve point six million dollars last year. Yeah,

620
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: that was a nine point five on the condition scale,

621
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: and it is not even a rookie card, but it

622
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: is that first TOPS card that had that sort of

623
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: modern baseball look in nineteen fifty two. Yeah, so it's considered,

624
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, or at least valued as the most expensive

625
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: you know, topsnas Wagner even Yeah, yeah, it topped Honas Wagner,

626
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: and I think the nineteen thirty three Babe Ruth is

627
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: third for most valuable card, right, which makes sense. So

628
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: now we're going into the next era of trading and collecting,

629
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: which was Hey, you kids, I know you're kind of

630
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: into this thing, but you know, you put them in

631
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: your bicycle spokes and you play games with them, and

632
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: you handle them and muck them up. Adults are going

633
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: to start collecting these and keep them in pristine condition

634
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: because there's an actual trade and buy and sell market here.

635
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: And we'll even have a convention. And the very first

636
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: West Coast Sports Collector's Convention was in Brea, California in

637
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine at a guy's house named Jim Knowle

638
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: because he was there wasn't enough people basically, I think

639
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: a couple of dozen people, and he was a prominent

640
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: collector who I guess had a good enough house. Uh.

641
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: They point to nineteen eighty eleven years later is the

642
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: first true convention, and then I guess they held it

643
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: at a hotel, the National Sports Collector's Convention, and you

644
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: know they were there between that time, there were little

645
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 1: shows here and there. But they point to nineteen eighties

646
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: the first like real deal convention. Yeah, totally. And I

647
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 1: saw an article on counterfeit cards, which we'll talk about

648
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: in a little while, but just right off the bat,

649
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: I mean, within a year or two of that first convention,

650
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 1: counterfeit I think Pete Rose rookie cards started showing up. Yeah,

651
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: just almost immediately. But it's like you said, like it

652
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: went from just something that kids got, as you know,

653
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: kind of like um, imagine collecting ring pops. Okay, okay,

654
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: it's virtually the same thing, where like like kids would

655
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: just go buy it and you know, mess around with

656
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: it for a little while, and then that was it. It

657
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: It was discarded. Whatever. Imagine if a adults suddenly were like,

658
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,479
Speaker 1: we want to buy those, Sorry, you don't have adult money.

659
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 1: Maybe you shouldn't have stopped working starting at five years

660
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 1: back and you would have adult money, but you don't.

661
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: So now these things are really going to go up

662
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: in price. And it didn't happen immediately chucked, but slowly

663
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: but surely, starting around nineteen eighty and then onward, it

664
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: went from a hobby or something fun for kids in

665
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: grown up to like to something incredibly amped up and

666
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: almost on cocaine. Yeah, that's an interesting way to put it,

667
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: but I think I agree the market is generally driven

668
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: by exactly what you think, which is rarity, which we'll

669
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: talk about, and condition, because you know, like I said,

670
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: kids actually played with the cards and things like that

671
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: and traded them and touched them, so a lot of

672
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: these cards were not as valuable because they were mucked up.

673
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: Sometimes these little cards were designed to be folded as

674
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: little stand up things, and like, this is one of

675
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: the things that can drive a rarity. So if you

676
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: have a card that was supposed to be folded in

677
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: half as a little stand up tent or something like

678
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: a little pop up, but you never did that, it's

679
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: like the grido that you never opened and played with

680
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: as a kid or whatever. That means. It's a low supply.

681
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: It's just very simple supply and demand kind of thing.

682
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: And Ed very stutey points out it's not exclusively but

683
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: a lot of baby baby boomers and their kids are

684
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: the ones that are really into this community, and they

685
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: created a very big demand in those two decades in

686
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, and manufacturers were like, hey, we

687
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: can make more money here, so then they ruined it

688
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: by over producing. In the nineties, Upper Deck came along

689
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 1: and did a really good job of debuting like next

690
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: level cards that just looked awesome. The photos were better,

691
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: they were on higher qualit card stock as opposed to

692
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: just like junkie cardboard. Sometimes they were hand autographs. Those

693
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: are the really really expensive ones now, and they would

694
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: include little bits of like a shard of a baseball,

695
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: a splinter of a baseball bat that was used by

696
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: a player, or a little tiny little thing of a

697
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: baseball jersey. So these little extras started popping up, and

698
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: it was really cool, but they not upper deck, but

699
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: just the market was flooded overall, and there were just

700
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: too many baseball cards. Yeah, there's one with like a

701
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: lock of Jose Canseco's hair. Just oh, really, is that

702
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: one you do? That would not surprise you. It wouldn't

703
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: me either, man, after reading this, I had no idea

704
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: that this was the state that baseball cards were in.

705
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 1: But they just embed the weirdest stuff into cards now

706
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: and it makes them just incredibly valuable. So what's happened

707
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: is the companies that make cards have they used to

708
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: just make cards? They said, oh, there's X number of

709
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball players, we're gonna make x number of cards.

710
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: And then for some of the ones that are stars,

711
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: well we'll put them in a different outfit. We'll say, here,

712
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: hold this feather duster like a bat for this one.

713
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: We'll use like slightly different colors and things like that

714
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: for a few of them. So and those will be

715
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: produced in you know, a little lower quantities, but they

716
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: it's just been so juiced now that they're like, yeah,

717
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: give me a little bit of Brett Farve's game Jersey

718
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: and we're gonna embed it in a card and there's um,

719
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna make two of them. And what's

720
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: interesting is they put them in packs. Still, it's not

721
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: like you can only you have to walk on foot

722
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: to the company's factory and buy this thing with gold bullion.

723
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 1: They put them in packs, but then they automatically become

724
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: incredibly valuable on the secondary market, and so people buy

725
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: packs in the hopes of like they're about to like

726
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: strike it rich because there's a million dollar cards stuck

727
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, it's I mean, it's hard not to

728
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: be a little cynical as a as a non enthusiast

729
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: and be like they they kind of ruined it in

730
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: a way in my opinion, because it's you know, the

731
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: old days, it was like you you would open a

732
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: card or open a pack or whatever, and it was that, um,

733
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: what you wanted to find was a player that ended

734
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: up being really good and you're like, wow, I've got

735
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: this thing now of this Ken Griffey Junior rookie card,

736
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: while they kind of knew he was going to be

737
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: because of his dad and his legacy or whatever. But

738
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like Mark the player that

739
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, sure, why not Mark Grace? Is that

740
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: the only baseball player you can think of? No, No,

741
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: Mark Grace's I think eighty eight rookie card was just yeah,

742
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 1: and I interest it was very sought after at the time. Okay,

743
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: I thought you just like pulled that out of your

744
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: back end. I thought that was pretty good. Oh thanks, um.

745
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: But anyway, now it's become like almost like gambling, like

746
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: buying a like looking for a lottery ticket or something

747
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: that's a winner. And because of that, there have been

748
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: rico anti trafficking laws and like lawsuits brought up saying

749
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: the same thing, which is like you're kind of running

750
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: a gambling business these days. And all those lawsuits have failed.

751
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: But Ed pointed out there was one against Panini just

752
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: like a few months ago this year. So people are

753
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: still trying to to paint them as you know, gamblers

754
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: or not gamblers, but whatever. It's called casinos, no lottery

755
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: ticket printers, card sharks. No, that's not it either. You

756
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: know what I mean, everyone knows what I mean. I

757
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: think the card sharks so one of the things that's

758
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: lost though, chuck it. I don't mean to get cynical about,

759
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, the present or the future in favor of

760
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: the past either, but it's hard not to because as

761
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: a kid, you could go to the grocery store on

762
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: your bike and buy some packs of baseball cards and

763
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: go have fun opening them. Good luck finding baseball cards

764
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: in the store these days. No, really, you, yes, you

765
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: go to a really well outfitted hobby shop, or you're

766
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: just buying it online basically immediately from the secondary market.

767
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: And yes, you can still have the thrill of like

768
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: buying an unopened pack or whatever, but you have to

769
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: buy it online and wait for it to arrive in

770
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: the mail. And it's just it's just a different thing

771
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: to me. I guess it's not necessarily worse, it's just

772
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: the reality now, but I just feel like kids in particular,

773
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: and then also like people who just don't have nearly

774
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: as much income are having trouble keeping up. You can't

775
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: buy baseball cards unless you're fairly well off these days,

776
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: because the possibility of buying a really valuable one is

777
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: very high, or getting a really valuable one, and then

778
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: you can just buy valuable ones right out of the

779
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: gate too, off of the internet, So it just seems

780
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: different to me. Well, it's it's less magical, for sure,

781
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 1: and it is hard not to say that it's worse. Yeah,

782
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 1: go ahead and say it. Sorry, everybody. We try not

783
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: to be terribly opinionated, but this one, this one really

784
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: was pretty opinionated if you think about it. Yeah, you know,

785
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: we talked about rookie cards. They're usually the most valuable

786
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: and sought after, and one of the reasons is because,

787
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: like I was mentioning earlier, you don't know necessarily you

788
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: might get a King Griffey Jr. That you have a

789
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: pretty good idea that he's going to be a great

790
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: player because of his family, but usually it's like, well,

791
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, baseball is a hard sport and a lot

792
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: of really good prospects don't pan out, so you don't

793
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: know for sure if a player is gonna pan out

794
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: and be a hot commodity as a baseball card. So

795
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: that's why rookie cards are worth more. And then also

796
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: Ed points out too, there's just it's sort of the tradition,

797
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: like the rookie card is more valuable because we say

798
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: it's more valuable. It's not necessarily because it's the rarest

799
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: thing out there, right, it's just very collectible. Yeah, and

800
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: then Chuck, we talked a little bit or I mentioned

801
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: counterfeit cards. Yeah, being a thing. I mean, they were

802
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: a thing back in the day when you know, the

803
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: first convention started. Now that cards have gotten like ultra valuable,

804
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: the counterfeit are becoming even more difficult to detect, in

805
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: part because it's just worth the effort now because of

806
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: the payoff. And then secondly because the technology to make

807
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: really good fake cards is becoming more widespread and cheaper,

808
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,280
Speaker 1: so there's more people putting more time into counterfeit cards.

809
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: So as a result, there's um in a cottage industry

810
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: of basically valuators and what's the word where you verify indicators. Yes,

811
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: authenticators has grown up as well, and there's one company

812
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: called Professional Sports Authenticator. They're not the only ones. I

813
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: think Beckett who used to make my I think still

814
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: do make my beloved Beckett price guides they also authenticate too,

815
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: But these there's a need has developed for professionals who

816
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: employ experts to look at these things say yes, this

817
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 1: thing is for real and all the and by the way,

818
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: it's also a nine in mint condition. Basically, I'm surprised

819
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: they haven't started putting like a you know, a chip

820
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,479
Speaker 1: or a little stripe that the money has the little

821
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: when you hold it up to the light, you know,

822
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: stuff like that to legitimize it. Because it's such a

823
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: big money industry. I guess maybe the Professional Sports Authenticator

824
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: company that's a great interest in that not happening because

825
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: it would well, I wouldn't drive him out of business

826
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: because of all the previous cards, I guess, but I'm

827
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: surprised there isn't something like that embedded in the card

828
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 1: these days. I think that they're the really high value

829
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: ones do have some sort of security measures. I know

830
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: they have things like holograms and foil like printing and

831
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: stuff like that to duplicate. It is hard to duplicate,

832
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: but it is possible too, especially if you're not a

833
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: professional authenticator. There are it's probably harder to detect. But

834
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,439
Speaker 1: I think if you are a professional, it's probably not

835
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: that hard. Like I said, for example, um on, I

836
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: think a PSA slab so if you if you have

837
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: a card that the PSA is authenticating, they encase it

838
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: in plastic and basically say like this is forever more verified.

839
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: This card is verified. They call them slabs that you

840
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 1: can buy um on PSA slabs. It has like their

841
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: patent number for the case that they use, and there's

842
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: there's a counterfeiter out there who uses the same patent number,

843
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: same thought and everything embossed on that plastic case, but

844
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: they forgot the period after pat And that's the way

845
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: that you tell that it's a counterfeit. Everything else is

846
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: like that, amazingly well done. And instead of spending so

847
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: much time trying to rip people off, yeah, it seems

848
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: like you have enough ingenuity to make money, you know,

849
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 1: doing something else. Yeah, you're good enough to be a counterfeit.

850
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: Or maybe it's the thrill of yeah crime or something.

851
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think for some people, crime is

852
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: very romantic, especially baseball counterfeiting very romantic. The last thing

853
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 1: I have is just a kind of cool little footnote

854
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: that Ed points out, which is in a lot of

855
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: trading markets, the or collectible trading markets, the rarity and

856
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: value comes sometimes for mistakes and errors, like the stamp

857
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: that is misprinted, or the java that looks like it

858
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: had an erection that they quickly like stopped on the

859
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 1: assembly line. Not always the case with baseball, and there

860
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: are exceptions, but generally baseball card errors are not so valuable.

861
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: There is at least one exception that I came across,

862
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: um Billy Ripken, Cal Ripken's brother, his nineteen eighty nine

863
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: Flear card. He's holding a bat and on the bottom

864
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: of the bat written it looked like a sharpie it

865
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: said F face, but it was all spelled out. It

866
00:49:54,320 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: was not And he basically just trolled the Fleer company

867
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: and they printed it. No one noticed it for a while,

868
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: and they finally I think, I'm not sure what they

869
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: did with it, but that's a very highly sought after

870
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: card too. The face. Yeah, they call it the Billy

871
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: Ripken F eighty nine Fleer or something like that. Oh wow,

872
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: I love that. The triple F. Yeah, yeah it is.

873
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 1: I didn't notice that third F. You got anything else?

874
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: I got nothing else. This was fun. I hope we

875
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: got it mostly right. Yeah, and don't forget. I mean, like,

876
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: there's podcasts out there dedicated to baseball card collecting. We're

877
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: just doing a general view of it. So if you

878
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: like it, go seek out some of those baseball card

879
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: podcasts and enjoy those as well. And since I just

880
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: said that, of course it's time for a listener mayl.

881
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this a follow up on them the

882
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: Catherine the first lineage. Remember I couldn't quite remember all

883
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 1: that stuff from the Amber Room. Yeah, from the Amber Room.

884
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: And I'm a big huge fan of the TV show

885
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: The Great and it comes back first season three, I

886
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: believe in May Okay, So it's also a good way

887
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: to plug that show because this will come out kind

888
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: of closest to them. This from Rebecca. Hey, guys, been

889
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: listening for quite a few years now. Very informative and

890
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 1: I'm not generally one to write in with corrections, but

891
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: the Russian succession in the Amber Room areas such a

892
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: good story could be an entire episode. Peter the Great

893
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: imprisoned his son an heir, after a failed revolt, and

894
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: he died after torture. After Peter died, the crown bounced

895
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 1: around various family members, including the wife that survived him,

896
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: the Peasant, to born Catherine, the First, for whom the

897
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: Katherine Palace is named for. Finally, Elizabeth secured the throne,

898
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 1: ruled for many years. She apparently lived extravagantly with something

899
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: like two hundred shoes or I guess one hundred pairs,

900
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: never wearing the same dress twice. But she never married,

901
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: so to ensure the succession, she named her nephew her heir,

902
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: and also arranged his marriage to a German prince's named Sophia,

903
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: who converted to Russian Orthodox and took the name Katherine. Wow. So,

904
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: after Elizabeth died, her nephew was so unpopular that only

905
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: a few months later he was thrown overthrown by his wife,

906
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: who ruled is Katherine the Second aka the Great? And

907
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: that is wherein the TV show takes place. Had a

908
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: chance to visit the Catherine Palace a few years ago.

909
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: See the recreation of the amber room. It's smaller than

910
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: I imagine, but still beautiful. Picture frames and tables are

911
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: also made with amber mosaic. Thanks for the podcast. P S.

912
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,280
Speaker 1: If you're not ps, you're not supposed to take pictures

913
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: in the room, but I attempted to sneak a pick

914
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: before I was called in sculpted. Oh wow, lucky, just

915
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: scolded and not thrown into the good Rebecca. I'm pretty

916
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: good about rule following in those cases because I like

917
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 1: to I'm a rule follower generally, but I snuck one

918
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: photo in of one of the Elvis's jumpsuits in Graceland.

919
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, you know. I was like, I did

920
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: a quickie and that was it. I wasn't trying to

921
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: get too greedy, but I had. And you took a

922
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: photo too, you may said on his bed. I think

923
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,919
Speaker 1: I told you on the seven forty seven and set

924
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: the alarment. Oh I don't think I remember that story.

925
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: Did you get off that plane pretty quick? That's so

926
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: just one thing that we're talking about Russia. I want

927
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: to make a correction from way back in the past.

928
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: I think in our Louisiana purchase episode, I mentioned that

929
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: NATO is fighting a proxy war with Russia through Ukraine. Right,

930
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 1: I grossly misused the term proxy war. I did not

931
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: know that proxy war in every case means that the

932
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: person fighting the proxy war started it. I do not

933
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: think that NATO started this war at all. I think

934
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: Russia was the aggressor, and I am definitely not pro

935
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: Russia in any way, shape or form. As a matter

936
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: of fact, I have a tremendous amount of admiration for

937
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: the Ukraine, and I hope that dumb American politics don't

938
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 1: get in our way of continuing to support Ukraine. F YI,

939
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: yeah you were. You were very misunderstood, and I felt

940
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 1: terrible for you because we got quite a few letters

941
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: and that is is not what you meant. But also

942
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 1: I learned my lesson too. I should probably double check

943
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: um big words before I used them. So yeah, apologies

944
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 1: to all um Ukrainian Canadian listeners. Apparently there's a bunch

945
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: of you um for any offense I caused. Yeah, uh,

946
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: good stuff, Yeah, good stuff. Indeed, if you want to

947
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: get in touch with us, like any of our Ukrainian

948
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: Canadian listeners or Rebecca, you can send us an email

949
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should

950
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 1: Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my

951
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

952
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.