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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Wednesday, November twelfth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: La He's in New York, and Vrity has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. On today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk with Variety's Daniel de Dario about his latest

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Speaker 1: cover story. He stepped into the ring to capture the

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Speaker 1: backstory of the Smashing Machine and the story of Johnson's

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Speaker 1: metamorphosis as an actor. Mark Malkin brings us a just

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Speaker 1: for Variety red carpet rundown with one and only George

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Speaker 1: Clooney and Todd Longwell makes the business case for why

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Speaker 1: business managers are important for people in entertainment. We get

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Speaker 1: a little help on that also from Larry David as

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Speaker 1: Variety gets ready to hoe host our annual Business Manager's

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Speaker 1: Breakfast event on Thursday in West Hollywood. But before we

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Speaker 1: get to that, here are a few headlines just in

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Speaker 1: this morning that you need to know. Disney has extended

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Speaker 1: the employment contract for Chief Financial Officer Hugh Johnston. Johnston

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Speaker 1: has won a lot of fans inside the Mousehouse since

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Speaker 1: he joined the company. In December twenty twenty three, Kevin

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Speaker 1: Riley has joined the AI firm Cartel as CEO. He

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Speaker 1: won't be the last veteran TV or film executive to

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Speaker 1: be recruited by tech firms that really need understanding and

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Speaker 1: insight into the creative process. Country stars Morgan Wallen and

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Speaker 1: Eric Church want to go fishing. They've partnered with Outdoor

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Speaker 1: America to launch Field and Stream TV. They intend to

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Speaker 1: launch fast channels as well as a broadcast network. That's

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Speaker 1: a counterintuitive choice for twenty twenty six, but will stay tuned.

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Speaker 1: Rip Clito Escobido the Third. Jimmy Kimmel delivered a heartfelt

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Speaker 1: tribute to his band leader on last night's show, did

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Speaker 1: Not Know that they were childhood friends? Play on KLDO.

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Speaker 1: All of these stories and so much more can be

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Speaker 1: found on Variety dot com. Right now, now we turn

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Speaker 1: to conversations with Variety journalists about news and trends and showbiz.

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Speaker 1: Next up, we'll hear from Variety Chief correspondent Daniel Didario

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Speaker 1: about his coverage of the Smashing Machine. It's the story

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Speaker 1: of resilience, of roads not taken, and of the beautiful

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Speaker 1: and boisterous friendship of Dwayne Johnson and Emily Blunt. Dan Didario,

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Speaker 1: thanks for coming back to talk about your latest cover story, Triumph,

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Speaker 1: and I do mean triumph.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me. And triumph is an interesting word.

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Speaker 2: The piece concerns itself with a trajectory that's been very

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Speaker 2: up and down and looking forward to the future where

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Speaker 2: triumps may lay ahead.

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Speaker 1: Listeners, run to Variety dot com or pick up your

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Speaker 1: November twelfth print edition, our precious print edition that we

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Speaker 1: love so much. Beautiful photography that a companies just really

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Speaker 1: helped paint the picture of Duayne Johnson. He is not

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Speaker 1: an under exposed personality. He is out there all the time.

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Speaker 1: And to your credit, Dan, I learned so much from

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Speaker 1: your story.

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Speaker 3: I learned a lot about him, not about.

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Speaker 1: In The Smashing Machine, the a twenty four movie that

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Speaker 1: is a biopic of MMA fighter Mark Kerr. To profile

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Speaker 1: somebody who is recognizable around the world, that's tough, because

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Speaker 1: what can you bring to it? Tell me how you

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Speaker 1: approached the assignment of profiling Dwayne Johnson at this Smashing

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Speaker 1: Machine moment. Of his career, so.

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Speaker 2: I think to set the scene. When I set out

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Speaker 2: to interview him, the film hadn't come out yet, and

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Speaker 2: we had booked the cover for about a month and

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Speaker 2: a half after its release date. The thinking was, as

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Speaker 2: I remember explaining to him, to Benny Softie, his director,

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Speaker 2: and to Emily Blunt, his co star, was that we

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Speaker 2: believed the film would have a long life in theaters.

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Speaker 2: It's a classic crowd pleaser and the piece I compare

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Speaker 2: it to Rocky. There are elements of it that are

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Speaker 2: more artsy and experimental than Rocky, But the hudsot is

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Speaker 2: we thought it was going to hit really big, and

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Speaker 2: so I set out to just kind of tell the

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Speaker 2: complete story of the film, how it was made, how

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Speaker 2: it came together, as its release. As it was released,

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Speaker 2: it became clear that audiences weren't seeking it out. It's

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Speaker 2: the kind of movie that maybe audiences don't go to

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Speaker 2: the theater for anymore. It was one of several films

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Speaker 2: this fall Rufman Spring, Skiing, Delivery from Nowhere, star driven

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Speaker 2: movies that have themes for grown ups and are artistically ambitious.

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Speaker 2: People are willing to wait for VOD and so it

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Speaker 2: became something that we felt we needed to reckon with

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Speaker 2: in the story, not because it's a historic bomb, it's not.

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Speaker 2: But this story concerns the entire journey of the film,

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Speaker 2: how it changed Johnson as an actor and part. Like

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Speaker 2: any good fighter knows, it's all about how you get

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Speaker 2: up after being knocked out.

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Speaker 1: You can't spin it. It was a pretty devastating opening,

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Speaker 1: especially for Dwayne Johnson, who is used to being higher

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Speaker 1: up the box office charts than that. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those you know, there's a grand canyon of divide between

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Speaker 1: the critical reception coming out of festivals, to your credit

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Speaker 1: as a journalist and to his credit as a subject.

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Speaker 1: You got back on the phone, and so the story

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Speaker 1: really does have scope to it because you sat down

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Speaker 1: well before its release and then you connected with him

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Speaker 1: again after the release.

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Speaker 2: Whatever happens with this film, whoever sees it, he believes

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Speaker 2: it will endure not just on its own terms as

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Speaker 2: a well made film that tells an interesting story that

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Speaker 2: deserves to be seen, but as a turning point for

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Speaker 2: him as an artist. This is really far and away

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Speaker 2: the biggest swing he's taken as an actor. He is

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Speaker 2: known for franchise fare. He is mister Hollywood. He is

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Speaker 2: the man you plug into a franchise film and you

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Speaker 2: know precisely what you're getting. The attitude, the swagger, the humor,

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Speaker 2: the wit, and that's carried him well. So to go

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Speaker 2: outside that comfort zone was genuinely scary. He really needed

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Speaker 2: to be encouraged by his co star Emily Blunt, with

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Speaker 2: whom he was already close friends. They made a Disney

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Speaker 2: film about five years ago, and she said, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're not serving your audience if you don't show them

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Speaker 2: aside of yourself. So those who do see the film,

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Speaker 2: and I think it will get a second life on

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Speaker 2: vod in, on streaming, those who do see it will

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Speaker 2: see a much more vulnerable Dwayne Johnson, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's a good look on him. And so I give

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Speaker 2: him all the credit in the world, not just for

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Speaker 2: being a gracious interview subject, but for admitting to the

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Speaker 2: fact that doing this was really scary. And now that

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Speaker 2: he has done it, he sees the rewards of playing

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Speaker 2: a character as his full self, not just as a

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Speaker 2: version of his own image.

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Speaker 1: The story of an MMA fighter who went through forgive

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Speaker 1: me but one battle after another and was resilient. There's

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Speaker 1: a world where Dwayne Johnson, former professional wrestler, if his

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Speaker 1: career had taken a different turn. Have to ask you

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Speaker 1: about the setting for your interview. You paint a picture

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Speaker 1: the two of you sitting in a boxing ring.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So they had done the photo shoot and the video

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Speaker 2: in a boxing gym in order to conjure the mood

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Speaker 2: of authenticity of Hollywood glamour of superstars up against the

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Speaker 2: grit and patna of gim where people have been sweating

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Speaker 2: it out for decades. It was gnarly. It was a

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Speaker 2: real boxing gym. In order to get into the ring,

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Speaker 2: I had to climb over the ropes and I was

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Speaker 2: an English major. I'm not a fighter, and so I

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Speaker 2: tripped and fell and Johnson caught me by the arm

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Speaker 2: and I was just like, that's why he's Dwayne Johnson

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Speaker 2: and I'm me. It really conjured a certain mood. In

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Speaker 2: order for me to use my recorder to tape the interview,

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Speaker 2: we had to turn the fans off, and so we're

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Speaker 2: sitting there sweating under the lights. It felt like I

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Speaker 2: was in the eighth round. It really put me right

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Speaker 2: in the mindset. And the person who loved it most

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Speaker 2: of all was the director, Benny Softy, who is an

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Speaker 2: absolute stickler for authenticity. He informed me that when they shot,

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Speaker 2: they didn't use purpose built sets, they used real mma gyms,

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Speaker 2: even though that made it more challenging to shoot. He

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Speaker 2: wanted that same patna, that same texture, and that same

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Speaker 2: feeling of life.

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Speaker 1: Every bit of that comes through in your story. I

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Speaker 1: felt like I could smell the gym's surroundings. And the

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Speaker 1: other thing that is absolutely delicious is the relationship between

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Speaker 1: Emily Blunt and Dwayne Johnson.

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Speaker 2: They are true friends. As Emily Blunt remarked in an

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Speaker 2: aside when they were promoting the film Jungle Cruise, Disney

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Speaker 2: wanted to pull the plug on their interviews because, as

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Speaker 2: you put it lightly, we were so inappropriate. They're just

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Speaker 2: the best buds. They really really get along great. And

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Speaker 2: it's evident that it took an Emily Blunt, which is

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Speaker 2: to say, someone Johnson likes and respects and understands to

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Speaker 2: be serious about her craft in the same way he's

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Speaker 2: always really serious about entertaining people. It took her to

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Speaker 2: convince him to take this risk. She's fantastic in the

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Speaker 2: film as well, as she said, she kind of put

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Speaker 2: the pieces together, but she didn't know if she was

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Speaker 2: going to be cast in it and didn't want to

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Speaker 2: nose her way in, but she was cast. And they

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Speaker 2: bring wonderful things out of each other in this portrait

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Speaker 2: of a very complicated relationship.

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Speaker 1: And when Mary Poppins comes to you and gives you

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Speaker 1: some advice, you probably pretty wise to take it. No

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Speaker 1: movie backstory is the same, nun, and you have captured

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Speaker 1: this one. You know, we'll watch in a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: This will be one of those movies that is on

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Speaker 1: a perpetual loop on streaming. Dan as always, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much, thanks for having me. And now here's Mark

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Speaker 1: Malkln with a Just for Variety Red Carpet rundown.

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Speaker 5: Thanks Cynthia. George Clooney is getting candid about AI. I

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Speaker 5: spoke to the Oscar Winter Tuesday night on the Red

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Speaker 5: Carpet at the premiere of his new Netflix film j Kelly.

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Speaker 5: I asked him for his reaction to the New Variety

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Speaker 5: interview with the creator of Tillie Norwood. She told our

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Speaker 5: Gene Maddis that full AI films are coming sooner than later.

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Speaker 6: I think that really rattled the Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: The general's sor too.

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Speaker 6: Stuff that shook everybody because suddenly the fallame is much

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Speaker 6: better and it's scary. But you know, AI is gonna

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Speaker 6: have the same problem that we have in Hollywood, which

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Speaker 6: is making a star is not so easy. You know,

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Speaker 6: you can't really describe what makes someone a star, right,

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Speaker 6: and it's not show, it's not looks, and it's something

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Speaker 6: unusual and it's hard to detect. They'll have the same

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Speaker 6: problems to Rita.

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Speaker 5: I asked Clooney about seeing unauthorized AI generated videos of

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Speaker 5: himself online.

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Speaker 6: There's been some really actually apful ones. What it done

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Speaker 6: and said things that I've never done and said and

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Speaker 6: put me out there and it's dangerous, It's dangerous for

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Speaker 6: your family. Yes, so, yes, it's complicated, but the.

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Speaker 3: Genis out of the bottle. I'm not quite sure where I.

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Speaker 5: For more of my chat with Clooney and his co stars,

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Speaker 5: including Adam Sandler, check out my column Just for Variety

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Speaker 5: at Variety dot com.

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Speaker 1: And finally, let's get down to business managers. Our annual

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Speaker 1: list of high Flying players is also published in our

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Speaker 1: November twelfth print edition and on Variety dot com. Todd Longwell,

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Speaker 1: Variety's Legal and Finance features editor, puts the whole thing

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Speaker 1: together for he explains the unique role the business managers

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Speaker 1: play for high net worth individuals as well as not

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Speaker 1: so high net worth people. But first, a great example

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Speaker 1: of what a good business manager can mean to the

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Speaker 1: life of an art Here's a clip of Larry David

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Speaker 1: of Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm Fame speaking at last

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Speaker 1: year's Business Manager's Breakfast, where he gave his longtime representative

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Speaker 1: quite a tribute.

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Speaker 4: All right. It was May nineteen eighty four. I had

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Speaker 4: just moved back to New York from Los Angeles because

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Speaker 4: I had gotten a writing job on SNL. I was

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Speaker 4: standing outside the improv when I was approached by some

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Speaker 4: guy with black horn rim glasses who looked like an

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Speaker 4: accountant anyway. He introduced himself as Matt Lichtenberg and said

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Speaker 4: he'd loved to get together to discuss becoming my business manager.

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Speaker 4: My business manager, you know. I told him I didn't

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Speaker 4: really need a business manager. I didn't have a business

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Speaker 4: and there was no money to manage. But he was

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Speaker 4: obnoxiously insistent that we meet, so we shook hands and

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Speaker 4: made it official. Then in a few months, the SNL

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Speaker 4: season was over and I was out of a job

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Speaker 4: for the next four years, I.

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Speaker 5: Didn't earn a penny.

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Speaker 4: That continued to pay the bills, file my taxes, and

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Speaker 4: to earn nothing doing it nothing. Now I started to

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Speaker 4: feel I started to feel badly about it. I told

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Speaker 4: him he was crazy. Believe me, there's nothing here. He said,

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Speaker 4: I'll take my chances. A month later I wrote the

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Speaker 4: pilot for Seinfeld.

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Speaker 1: And now Todd Longwell gives us the rundown of this

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Speaker 1: year's section and why Phil Sarna is this year's honoree.

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Speaker 1: Two words Chapel Roan Todd Longwell, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Todd, you have come to the end of a very

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Speaker 1: big project for Variety, our Business Manager's Elite List. This

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Speaker 1: is one of the great sections that we do that

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Speaker 1: shines a big spotlight on a niche area of the business.

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Speaker 1: It's a specialized service, but it is super super important

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Speaker 1: to all those high net worth individuals that work in

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Speaker 1: entertainment and those that are aspiring to join the high

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Speaker 1: net worth crowds. And the business manager is a distinct

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Speaker 1: service different from a lawyer or an agent or accountant.

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Speaker 1: So let me start by asking you, Todd, what are

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Speaker 1: the essential qualities of a good business manager.

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Speaker 3: Well, I like to say they're the CFO of their

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Speaker 3: client's lives. They handle a lot of different things. They

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Speaker 3: make sure they pay their tax, they make sure they

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Speaker 3: have long term planning for their lives. They help them

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Speaker 3: buy houses, they help them buy cars, they help them

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Speaker 3: sometimes hire and fire household staff or personal staff. But

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Speaker 3: as they say, it's not just about money. Anyone can

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Speaker 3: add and subtract, and especially with all the software tools

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Speaker 3: we have today, they can handle the money part of it.

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Speaker 3: It's also about dealing with them as kind of a

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Speaker 3: money therapist. So a lot of what they do is

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Speaker 3: actually counseling. And someone said, oh, you know, my husband

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Speaker 3: asked me, what hat did you have on today? Where

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Speaker 3: the accountant, the therapist or the parent. Because it really

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Speaker 3: is not just about dollars and cents, it's also about

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Speaker 3: the psychology.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about Phil Sarna and he's our choice for

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Speaker 1: Business Manager Elite this year for recognition. Todd, what made

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Speaker 1: Phil Sarna rise to the level of getting this recognition.

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Speaker 3: Well, he is one of the top business managers in

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Speaker 3: the music end of it. And he has a Billie Eilish,

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Speaker 3: he has Lizzo, he has Chapel Roone. He has Benson

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Speaker 3: Boone with his firm, and that's a pretty hip list.

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Speaker 3: When you talk to business managers, the common wisdom is

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Speaker 3: the two hardest clients to have are musicians and athletes.

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Speaker 3: The biggest reasons are that they tend to have short careers,

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Speaker 3: the money comes all at once when they're young. They

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Speaker 3: often can living in a culture where spending in lavish

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Speaker 3: lifestyles are the norm. It's tough to even get them

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Speaker 3: to sit down and understand how their contract works and

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Speaker 3: like that advance of yours is alone is recoupable.

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Speaker 1: Any list that we do gets a lot of lobbying.

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Speaker 1: What kind of lobbying do you get on behalf of

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Speaker 1: business managers?

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Speaker 3: I'm curious, Well, Businessmann's is a little easier than the

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Speaker 3: others because you have to basically and get in our site.

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Speaker 3: They have to have good clients, and even if I

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Speaker 3: can't publish them, I usually like to say I need

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Speaker 3: submissible evidence.

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Speaker 1: Well, Todd, I appreciate you taking the time to talk

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Speaker 1: us through this, how the list is built, how the

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Speaker 1: sausage is made, and listeners. I just want you to

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Speaker 1: know that Todd Longwell has one of the coolest framed

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Speaker 1: movie posters of anybody in the La office of Variety.

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Speaker 1: It is the poster of the day of the Locust

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Speaker 1: and those that know that is so telling right now

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Speaker 1: for the Hollywood that we are covering.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Cynthia.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for. The trailer is out for the controversial

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Speaker 1: new documentary Elon Musk unveiled, The Tesla Experiment. The film

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Speaker 1: is set to premiere November sixteenth at the IDFA Documentary

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Speaker 1: Festival in Amsterdam. Variety will produce the first of three

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Speaker 1: digital dailies out of the IDFA starting on Friday before

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Speaker 1: we Go. Congrats to Jordan Lickman. He's joined Media Capital

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Speaker 1: Technologies as Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel. MCT is

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Speaker 1: the parent company of startup distributor Roque Entertainment ELI, Roths,

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Speaker 1: the Horror Section and More Human. Was most recently general

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Speaker 1: counsel for Ben Affleck and Matt Damon's Artist's Equity. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening. This episode was written and reported by me

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Daniel de Dario, Mark Malkolin,

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Speaker 1: and Todd Longwell. Sticks Nicks Hick Pigs Please leave us

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Speaker 1: a review at the podcast platform of your choice, and

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Speaker 1: please tune in tomorrow for another episode of Daily Variety.