1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to The Laverne Cox Show, a production of Shondaland 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. I was seeing 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: kids coming in with chess pain. I was seeing kids 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: with autoimmune disease just off the charts, and you know, 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: most of these kids were black and brown kids, and 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: I just didn't believe the myth that somehow these people 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: are sicker, or because they're low income they're sicker. I'm like, 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: what if we're all the same and these kids are 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: not fundamentally broken, but they're showing a normal biological response 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: to a harmful experience. Hello, Hello, Hello everyone, and welcome 11 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: to the Laverne Cox Show. I'm Laverne Cox. Today I 12 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: am really excited and nervous to be talking to the 13 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: Surgeon General of California. And the reason I'm so nervous 14 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: but also excited is because this person's work has really 15 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: illuminated and helped explain a lot of what has been 16 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: going on with me my whole life. A few years ago, 17 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: my therapist said to me, you should go to this 18 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: website and take this quiz and find out your asist scored. 19 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, ACES, what are you talking about? And she said, 20 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: ACES is an acronym for adverse childhood experiences. Adverse childhood 21 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: experiences can have effects on us throughout our lives, not 22 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: only in terms of our mental health and our behavioral capacities, 23 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: but also our physical health. Toxic stress PTSD has health consequences. 24 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: People with high ASIS scores have a higher rate of 25 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: heart disease, diabetes, and more. The person who has brought 26 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: the this research to the masses arguably is Surgeon General 27 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: of California, doctor Nadine Burke Harris Nading Burke Harris is 28 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: an award winning physician, researcher, and California's first ever Surgeon General. 29 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: After graduating from Stanford, she turned down multiple job offers 30 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: to work in the most underserved part of San Francisco, 31 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: where she found at the Center for Youth Wellness, an 32 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: organization leading the effort to advance pediatric medicine, raise public awareness, 33 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: and transform the way society responds to children exposed to 34 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: adverse childhood experiences, aces and toxic stress. Dr Burke Harris 35 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: is ted talk how childhood trauma affects health across the 36 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: lifetime has been viewed more than seven million times. Her 37 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: book The Deepest Dwell Healing the long term effects of 38 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: childhood adversity was called indispensable by The New York Times. 39 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: Please enjoy my conversation with Dr Nadine Burke Harris. Hello, 40 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: Dr Nadine Burke Harris, Welcome to the podcast. How are 41 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: you feeling today? I'm feeling very well. Thank you, Thank you. 42 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be with you. I'm so excited 43 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: to have you here. Can you for those folks out 44 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: there who don't who aren't familiar with you and your work, 45 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: can you, dispersed of all, tell them what ACES is 46 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: and then then we can get some background on who 47 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: you are. But can you tell them what ACES stands 48 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: for and why it's important. Yeah. So, the term ACES, 49 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: they stand for Adverse Childhood Experiences and they refer to 50 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: ten categories of experiences of adversity that folks can have 51 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: during their childhood. And it actually comes from this groundbreaking 52 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: research study that was done by the CDC and Kaiser 53 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: Permanente now over two decades ago, when they asked adults 54 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: about their history of exposure to ten categories of adversity, 55 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: and those included physical, emotional or sexual abuse, physical or 56 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: emotional neglect, were growing up in a household where parent 57 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: was mentally ill, substance dependent, incarcerated, where there was parental 58 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: separation or divorce, or domestic violence. And what they found 59 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: in this research study was number one, these aces were 60 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: super common, right, and I think for for so many 61 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: people who have had these experiences, they feel like they're 62 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: the only one. And it turns out that two thirds 63 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: of Americans have experienced at least one of these ten 64 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: categories of average childhood experiences. But the second thing that 65 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: they found was that the more of these that a 66 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: person has exp varience, the more likely they are to 67 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: have not just the things that I think many of 68 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: us intuitively associate with child too trauma, so you know, 69 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: things like depression or anxiety, mental health conditions or behavioral 70 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: health conditions, substance dependence, suicidality, right, all of those things, 71 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: but also heart disease, right, that's the number one killer 72 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: in America. And the more aces a person has, the 73 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: more likely they are to have heart disease, stroke, asthma, diabetes, 74 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: all of these different health conditions. And what we now 75 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: understand from the science and the research that has happened 76 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: is that when we experience adversity and trauma as children, 77 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: because children's brains and bodies are just developing. All of 78 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: those stress hormones that are released during that adversity and 79 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: trauma actually changes the way our brains and bodies are 80 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: wired and can lead to an increased risk of different 81 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: types of health conditions later on down the line. Yeah, 82 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: and that is the piece that that that hits me 83 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: so hard. I was deeply triggered after I took the 84 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: ACES test. I was deeply triggered afterwards. For folks out there, 85 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 1: I encourage you to go to the website just google 86 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: um number story dot org, thank you, and take the test, 87 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: and I love the website has resources to just in 88 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: case you are triggered, which is great, and we can 89 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: talk about some of those. But for me taking the test, 90 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: I was like, well, my was my mother really mentally 91 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: ill when I think she had O c D And 92 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: so there was just sort of hedging on some of 93 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: the questions. Right when I've spoken about my mother and 94 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: I have my mother was emotionally abusive, and I've spoken 95 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: about this on the podcast before and we were in 96 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: a great place now and we reconciled and healed together 97 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: and it's beautiful. But they even when like no one's watching. 98 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm sort of betraying my mother by 99 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: like telling the truth to myself on an ASIS test. Right. 100 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: So I think that's one of the things that gets 101 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: in the way because you you know, when your TED Talk, 102 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: you say that this is a public health crisis, and 103 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: I still don't feel like there's a big conversation about 104 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: adverse childhood experiences that I think a lot of it 105 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: has to do with shame. It has to do with 106 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: how difficult it is to confront this stuff. What do 107 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: you think about that piece of it? Oh, there's so 108 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: much in what you just said. I've been talking about 109 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: this for a long time. Obviously the TED Talk I 110 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: recorded in and it wasn't until when I wrote my 111 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: book in ten did I ever publicly say anything about 112 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: my own experience of growing up with a mom with 113 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: a chronic mental health condition and talk about being worried 114 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: about betraying your parents. Right, who my mom and I 115 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: My mom is defined as by so many things, right, 116 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: and she was very loving in many ways, but then 117 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: also there were a lot of scary moments. And the 118 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: piece of it that I find to be really important 119 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: and related to your point of what you're saying about 120 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: feeling triggered, which I think it's so good to recognize 121 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: that because when when we are triggered, there's something there, right, like, 122 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: there's something there where. We got to figure out what 123 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: that's about. But for me, ultimately, this work, this information 124 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: is all about healing. It's all about interrupting that intergenerational cycle. 125 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: Because I one of the most profound experiences that I 126 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: ever had was speaking at an onfrience for a bunch 127 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: of young women who rushed up to me and they, 128 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: you know, one young woman said to me, Dr Burke Harris, 129 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: my ACE score is a nine, but my kids are three, 130 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: and I'm going to make sure it stays that way, right, 131 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: And what makes that possible is our ability to have 132 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: a much broader national conversation about these topics, which requires 133 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: us to feel safe in doing that, right, It requires 134 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: some kind of normalizing and understanding that actually, you know, 135 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: you can go back and look at the experience you 136 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: had with whoever was the source of your ass But 137 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: then you go back and say, well, what was the 138 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: source of their aces? And you recognize there's no bad 139 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: guy here, right, There's there's no bad guy. You just 140 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: have a bunch of people who we're doing their best, 141 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: their best with what they can and now what we're 142 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: doing is opening up a conversation, having a dialogue and 143 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 1: arming people with resources so that we can maybe do 144 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: something different with what we've experienced. Right, And that's what 145 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: number story is all about. It's about raising awareness and 146 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: it's about arming people with resources to understand what does 147 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: their aces mean for them and how do they find 148 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: a path to healing. Absolutely, I love that. I gotta 149 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: take a tea easy break here, but I'll be fast alright. 150 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: Now that's all taken care of. That's get back to 151 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: our chat. So what do you think is getting in 152 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: the way of us having more protocols in place? You 153 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: talk about best practices with children, and you introduce some 154 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: of those at your clinic, and now you're a certain 155 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: in general, what is getting in the way of us 156 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: basically integrating mental health into you know, all of our 157 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: healthcare practices and measuring these kinds of things so that 158 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: we so we're doing asist test whenever people are going 159 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: in for a physical or whatever. Girl, do you know 160 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: that's what we're doing in California? Talk to me, tell me, 161 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: tell me I didn't know this so here in California, 162 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: we've launched an initiative. It's a hundred and fifty million 163 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: dollar initiative to train our healthcare clinicians on how to 164 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: screen for advertge childhood experiences, how to assess for that 165 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: toxic stress response, and how to respond with evidence based interventions. 166 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: And we have given over fifty million dollars in grants 167 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: to communities all over California to implement these practices. And 168 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: I will tell you we have trained almost nineteen thousand 169 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: health care clinician so far in California. Very exciting. This 170 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: is world leading stuff. We are the first in the nation, 171 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: first in the world to be doing something of this 172 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: scope and scale. And I will tell you some of 173 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: the difficulties that we have right Like, besides the fact 174 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: that you and I can look at each other right 175 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: now and know that there is not some amazing barrier 176 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: in the neck, right that separates the head from the 177 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: rest of the body, but somehow in medicine and in healthcare, 178 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: we are like, Okay, there's mental health and there's the 179 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: rest of traditional medicine, right, and they're totally separate, and 180 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: they're financed differently. It's just very very separate and that 181 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense because that's not actually the way 182 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: the body works. Right. The way the body works is 183 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: that this is all integrated our mood, our mental health 184 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: impacts our immune system. Think about our stress response and 185 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: the way our stress response develops. Two of the main 186 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: stress hormones that we have been most studied our adrenaline, 187 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: which is a short term stress hormone, and that is 188 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: the heart pounding. And then cortisol is thought of as 189 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: more of a long term stress hormone. So you can 190 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: imagine famine as something that was like a big stressor 191 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: back in the day. What cortisol does. It increases your 192 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: blood pressure, It increases your blood sugar. It tends to 193 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: make people more aggressive. It affects your sleep, so it 194 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: makes it hard to sleep. Right, All of these things 195 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: to help you stay awake at night so you can 196 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: hunt and eat any critters. And it um helps you 197 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: conserve fat and store belly fat, right because it's a famine, right, 198 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: you need need belly fat. And so all of these 199 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: things are adaptive in an evolutionary standpoint, but in our 200 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: day to day world, it's no longer a famine. Or 201 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: for example, I give the example of your walking in 202 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: a forest and you see a bear. It's not a 203 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: bear in the woods that you have to fight and 204 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: get away from. It's the bear coming home every night. 205 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: So you can imagine the way the stress response works. 206 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: It's supposed to be that almost like a thermostat, where 207 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: you have a set point, you experience a threat, you 208 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: activate your stress response. It goes up, up, up, up up. 209 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: When it's done its job, it turns itself off and 210 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: you go back to normal. And that is the fight 211 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: or flight response, and that's what we were designed to do. 212 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: The problem is when we experience high doses of adversity, 213 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: as specially in childhood, that stress thermostat can get a 214 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: little haywire, right, and so we activate our stress response 215 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: and it goes up, up, up, up up, and then 216 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: it stays there right. It doesn't turn itself off, or 217 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: or it gets triggered for teeny tiny things. So it's 218 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: either being activated much more frequently, or it has a 219 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: very hard time turning itself off. I think I'm the ladder, well, 220 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: the ladder, it doesn't turn it doesn't turn off, So 221 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: I'm just it's always heightened. I never feel safe, and 222 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: then I just and I give out and I'm fatigued 223 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: that I'm like, of course, I'm exhausted. That's but that's 224 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: right because that actually it takes a ton of energy 225 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: to do that, And if you were in an environment 226 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: of constant threat, that would be adaptive. But now your 227 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: body is wired that way, right, and it keeps going 228 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: even if there isn't an immediate threat. And this is 229 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: actually something that's really really important to me and toxic stress, 230 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: this prolonged activation of the stress response. And when I 231 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: first started talking about this, honestly, the place I got 232 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: them a lot of flak, like a surprising amount of 233 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: pushback was from mental health clinicians and they were like, 234 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: stay in your lane. You're a pediatrician, why are you 235 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: talking about this? What do you think that was about? Oh? 236 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: You know, I think honestly, I think a lot of 237 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: people didn't fully know and understand the science. So when 238 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: I learned about this, because what really brought me into 239 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: this work was I was running a clinic in Bay 240 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: View Hunters Point in San Francisco. This is one of 241 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: the hardest neighborhoods in the city, and I was seeing 242 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: child after child after child. Most of my patients were 243 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: experiencing high doses of adversity and it was impacting their health. 244 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: I was seeing it in asthma, but I was seeing 245 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: kids come in with chess pain. I was seeing kids 246 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: with autoimmune disease just off the charts. And you know, 247 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: most of these kids were black and brown kids. And 248 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: I just didn't believe the myth that somehow these people 249 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 1: are sicker or because their low income they're sicker. I'm like, 250 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: what if we're all the same, and what's happening is 251 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: that these children are being poisoned by what's happening to them, right, Like, 252 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: what if these kids are not fundamentally broken, but they're 253 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: showing a normal biological response to a harmful experience. I 254 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: started researching that, and then I started looking into okay, 255 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: so if we understand this and we see the a 256 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: science and we know all of this, what do we 257 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: do about it. I didn't learn this in medical school. 258 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: I didn't learn this in residency. I never learned how 259 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: to treat this. And so I'm like, well, good thing, 260 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: this is medicine, right, Because if doctors were like, oh, well, 261 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: we did learned it before, so we're never gonna do 262 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: anything about it, it's unsolvable. Where would we be right 263 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: now with COVID, where would we be right now with HIV? 264 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: Like we can respond to new challenges for stuff we 265 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: didn't know before. So that was the whole thing. I 266 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: started an organization to really do this research and find 267 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: this out this information, the Center for Youth Wellness, And 268 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: that was really how I approached this was just like, Okay, 269 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: so what is the biology behind it? Because if we 270 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: know the biology, we can treat that. And that's what 271 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: we started doing in my clinic and we learned a lot. 272 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: We learned a lot from other experts around the world, 273 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: and then we developed some clinical protocols for how to 274 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: screen for adverse childhood experiences and how to respond look 275 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: at the best evidence of how do you calm down 276 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: an overactive stress response, and a lot of the things 277 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: that you've been talking about meditation, regular exercise, nutrition and 278 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: even more like getting even more point like anti inflammatory diet. 279 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: You know, so certain pieces are really key. Now we're 280 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: seeing data coming out about experiencing nature, right like they 281 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: put e e g s on people and had them 282 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: walk through the city and then had them walk through nature, 283 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: and they see that being in like dense urban environments 284 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: activates the fight or flight response more and being in beautiful, 285 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: calm nature actually stimulates more the parasympathetic and it calms 286 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: down the fight or flight response. All of these things. 287 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: And my thing because I'm a hardcore science nerd, Like 288 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: science is mine. The story you tell about your father 289 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: is just it's so fantastic, and like Dr Nadieberg Harris 290 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: is definitely a nerd. Yeah, so I'll say my my 291 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: for those who don't know, So my dad's my dad's 292 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: a biochemist and my mom is a nurse. And even 293 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: though I have four brothers, none of the other of 294 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: them went into science. But when we were kids, man, 295 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: my dad, if there was something going on, my dad 296 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: would break it down into science. Like he'd see us 297 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: throwing paper airplanes at each other. And instead of your 298 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: standard parent being like stop that, you'll poke an eye out, 299 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: my dad, you know, measure the timing of the flight 300 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: and the wind resistance and gravity's nine point eight meters 301 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: per second squared, like what's the lift under the wings? 302 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: Like that was Basil Burke. So I definitely learned to 303 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: see everything in the world through a scientific lens. And 304 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: then when I became Surgeon General of California. When Governor 305 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: Newsom appointed me, one of the things that he said 306 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: is that we are looking for someone who can take 307 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: an upstream approach, someone who can tackle aces and toxic stress. 308 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: Like he said it specifically. And I just have to 309 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: tell you this because it means so much to me. 310 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: When I started, I got a ton of heat. People 311 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: were saying, you can't screen for aces, and you can't 312 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: do it because if there's not a therapist for every 313 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: single person who screams positive, it's irresponsible. It's all of 314 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: the above. And why were they did they say was irresponsible? 315 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: What was the logic there? People said, you shouldn't screen 316 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: for something that you cannot treat, right. People assume like, well, 317 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: aces happened in the past, and you can't fix what 318 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: happened in the past, So what are you doing? And 319 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: I said, okay, But the point of doing an a 320 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: screen is to understand whether that patient likely has that 321 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: prolonged activation of the stress response, because that is imminently treatable, 322 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: and that, ladies and gentlemen, is science. The National Academies 323 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine release the consensus report in 324 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: saying that toxic stress is treatable. The point is to 325 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: find out how their body is reacting and whether or 326 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: not that may put them at risk for a health 327 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: conditions that if we intervene and help to regulate that 328 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: stress response, we can prevent those health conditions. Right, And 329 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: the whole notion that this is not treatable is just ridiculous. 330 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: It's just ridiculous. And that is why I'm so excited 331 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: to bring evidence and medicine and science to bear against 332 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: something that, by the way, two thirds of Americans have 333 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: experienced at least one ACE. This has to be a 334 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: national priority, absolutely, and so what I'm so exciting about 335 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: what you're doing here in California is giving everyone access 336 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: to a level of care that we all deserve because 337 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: we all are thort of dealing with this toxic stress 338 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: in one way or another. And then I wonder if 339 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: there is because when I think about public health, and 340 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: I think about where we are with COVID, what's happened 341 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: over the past year with mask and vaccines, and you're 342 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: saying your tip talk, we know how to treat a 343 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: public health is right, and we identify it and we 344 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: know what to do. You know, people don't smoke on 345 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: airplanes anymore. But like right now people are fighting mask 346 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: on airplanes, like you know, so do you feel I 347 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: mean like there's a resistance and what would that resistance 348 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: be about? I feel like underneath it is a shame 349 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: around mental health. And then I wonder if there is 350 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,479 Speaker 1: in the health care industry, if we are dealing with 351 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: people's stress, with with mindfulness, with meditation, with better nutrition, 352 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: than the sort of profit motives of medicating everything are diminished. 353 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: And you know that, I'm not a conspiracy theorists, but like, 354 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: I think about what gets in the way often, right, Yeah, 355 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: I have two answers to that. So Number one, some 356 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: of the biggest resistance doesn't come from patients, right Doctors say, oh, 357 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: I can't screen my patients will not you know, won't 358 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: like it. And the truth is, the patients all by 359 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,239 Speaker 1: and large, vastly appreciate it. It's the doctors who are 360 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: terrified because they're afraid of opening Pandora's box. They're afraid 361 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: they don't know what to do with the information when 362 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: it comes out. And I think that's an understandable fear 363 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: and the way that we respond in medicine, and this 364 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: is why we stood up such a robust initiative in 365 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: California is because we trained doctors to do everything that 366 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: they do. We trained doctors to cut people open, take 367 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: out their organs, and then sew them back up again. 368 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: We can't train doctors to ask them questions safely, right 369 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: we can. We can. People are right in saying, hey, 370 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: if I'm going to do this as part of my 371 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: as part of screening in physical exams, which is what 372 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: we are doing in California, I need to have the training. 373 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: I need to have the resources, I need to have 374 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: the guidance. I need to have people who know what 375 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: they're doing, who have done this before, who tell me 376 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: how to do it safely. And that's what we're doing 377 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: in California. So for example, we are going to do 378 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: it really rigorously and provide trade and provide guidance and 379 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: all of that. So that's one piece that's important. I 380 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: think the other piece around the pharmacological treatment. I'm going 381 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: to say something that is going to surprise a lot 382 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: of people, which is that when it comes to treating HIV, 383 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: for example, we know how HIV spread, we know all 384 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: that stuff, and so we know, like, oh, hey, if 385 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: you want to prevent it use a conduct. Okay, so 386 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: we know that, but we still developed anti retrovirals and 387 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: that made a really big difference for a lot of people. 388 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: And those were drugs, right. So I don't have any 389 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: interest in saying that there's no room for pharmacotherapy here, 390 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: because if there was a medication that helped to regulate 391 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: the stress response for someone who had a disregulated stress response, 392 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: I would commit if it was healing. From my patients, 393 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: the problem that we have was what I was seeing 394 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: in my clinic, which is that we weren't accurately diagnosing 395 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: the problem. We'd see all these kids and be like, 396 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: you've got a d h D. Here's some rittlin. Rittlin 397 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: is a stimulant. If you have an overactive stress response, 398 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: Rittlin is likely to not help you. Okay, Okay, well 399 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: your behavior still didn't get better, so we put you 400 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: on antipsychotic. This, Charlotte is not psychotic. I'd see kids 401 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: on five different psychotropic medications, and my problem was, as 402 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: a field, we did not have the training to know 403 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: what we're treating, which is this disregulation of the stress response. 404 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: And the treatment is several fold. Number one is to 405 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: reduce the dose of adversity and stress. Right, when a 406 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: kid has lead poisoning, first thing is figure out where 407 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: the lead is coming from and get rid of it 408 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: right mitigated. So what are you gonna have some specific 409 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: things that parents can do? Oh my god, my child 410 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: has a high ASIS score? What can I do to 411 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: reduce that level of toxic stress for parents out there? 412 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: A couple of things I saw all the time in 413 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: my clinical practice. Mom's bringing in a child, right, and 414 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: you've got a person who maybe dad's been laying hands 415 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: on for quite some time, and mom thinks, oh, he's 416 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: hurting me, but he's not hurting my child. So I'm 417 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: not gonna separate. And I have seen so many parents 418 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: who have been willing, once they understand the harm that 419 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: it actually is physically damaging their child's brain and body 420 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: to witness that domestic violence, are willing to do for 421 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: their child what they were not able to do for themselves. 422 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: For example, man, I had a dad who took care 423 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: of his kids, and this dad had issues with substance dependence, 424 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: he had PTSD, he had, you know, a bunch of 425 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: stuff going on. And he said, you know what, I 426 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: am realizing now how all this stuff is affecting my kids, 427 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: because obviously I was this doctor, so I'm saying, hey, listen, 428 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: these things it's not you're doing your stuff and you're 429 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: it doesn't harm your kids because your your children witnessing it. 430 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: And I saw this dad go to rehab, go to therapy, 431 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: do his stuff, and bring his kids in for their 432 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: appointment every week. So this one of the most important 433 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: things for parents is if you're concerned about your child, 434 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: one of the first things is to look at your 435 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: own aces, look at your own mental health issues. And 436 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: I will tell you my you know, my own experience 437 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: was that my mom's mental health condition was untreated for many, many, 438 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: many many years. And I will tell you schizophrenia is 439 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: a treatable health condition. There is no reason she should 440 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,959 Speaker 1: have gone untreated for so many years. And she finally 441 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: did get treatment, and again it was such a game changer. 442 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: But I think for so long the shame and the stigma, yes, right, 443 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: means that we don't acknowledge what's going on, we don't 444 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: deal with it for ourselves, and we kind of try 445 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: to sweep it under the rug. And we have to 446 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: let go of the shame and stigma. We have to 447 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: let go of the shaman sama around. Mental health issues 448 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: is the health issue just like anything else that is crucial, crucial, crucial. 449 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: It's time for a short break when we come back 450 00:29:45,080 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: more with our guest. Alrighty, then let's just dive right 451 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: back in. I want to stay it for myself as 452 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: an adult, even though I don't have a child that 453 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: I need to be there for and get myself healthy for. 454 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: How do I, as as an adult look at the 455 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: inner child inside me and say, you deserve to have 456 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: fewer adverse experiences. So for the people I think who 457 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: don't have kids, who are struggling, but this is an adult, Like, 458 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: what is that self compassion look like? Yeah? So one 459 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: of the pieces that I saw over and over again 460 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: when I was taking treating my patients and especially my teenagers, 461 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: I would say, oh, because of what you've experienced, your 462 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: body maybe releasing more stress mormones than it should and 463 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: it can look and feel like being quick to anger, 464 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: or having trouble controlling your impulses all that stuff, And 465 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: like almost every time the response I would get is, oh, 466 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: you mean I'm not crazy? And so that first step 467 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: of that self compassion is to recognize, like, oh, you 468 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: know what there's nothing wrong with me, Like, my body 469 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: is responding in the way that our bodies were actually 470 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: designed to respond to the types of things that I experienced, 471 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: and there's something that I couldn't do about it. Right, 472 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: So the meditation, the exercise. One of the things that 473 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: I talk a lot about is having like a green, yellow, 474 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: red chart. So green is like, hey, how do I 475 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: feel when I'm in the green? Right, Green is I'm 476 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: doing well, everything's going fine. And then yellow? What does 477 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: yellow look like for me? I'm having trouble sleeping, my 478 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: heart is racing, my thoughts become obsessive, my asthma is 479 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: acting up, my blood sugar seems high, and I can't 480 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time with managing my diet. Eaties, 481 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: you figure out what that is, and then you say, okay, well, 482 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: what's the plan. Okay, I'm gonna step up. I'm going 483 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: to go from my meditation once a day to twice 484 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: a day. I'm going to reach out to these trusted 485 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: folks in my life who I know are there and 486 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: be like, girl, let's get together, it's time, you know, 487 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: and get extra good on the nutrition. Cut out the 488 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: inflammatory foods. Right, We're gonna really keep it tight to 489 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: tune us back in. What if you do that and 490 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: you still go into the red? What does red look like? 491 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: Red might look like thoughts of self harm. Red might 492 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: look like, you know, really really bad asthma and being hospitalized, 493 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: And then what do you do with the red? Talk 494 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: to your doctor, talk to your therapist. We're hearing more 495 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: and more about people like Naomi Osaka, right tennis star, 496 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: who said, you know what, I don't know if she 497 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: was in the red or not, but she was like, 498 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: this rex my mental health. I'm not going to do 499 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: it for me, just like I'm actually doing everything I've 500 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: chosen everything in my life. I'm not doing something I 501 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: don't want to do. So like why am I sis stressed? 502 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 1: And I think for me, a lot of it is 503 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: just so hardwired, and it's just it's a habit for 504 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: forty nine years. This is how I've responded, you know, 505 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: And I've been talking about this for years as a 506 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: as a trans person, as a as a black person, 507 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: as a black trans person, Like I've never felt safe 508 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: walking down the street. I feel like constantly under attack. Right, 509 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: So that like that heightened you know, toxic stress thing 510 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: is the habit in my nervous system that my body 511 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: has to unlearn. So what I would say to that 512 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: is that and this is why public health is so 513 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: important and I'm so grateful to be in the role 514 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: of California Surgeon General, is that you can do that 515 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: individual work to unlearn that, and it's really really important 516 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: for you to do that. But this is where public 517 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: health comes in. We actually have to make it safe 518 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: for you to walk down the street. There is a 519 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: certain amount of when it comes to public health where 520 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: you can't just ask the individual to do better, be better, 521 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: do differently. Individual overcoming the situation, you have to change 522 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: the structure of the society. Because if we didn't sanitize 523 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: our water, and every time you turn on the tap 524 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: came a whole pile of E. Coli telling you to like, 525 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,479 Speaker 1: oh well, just you know, see if you can get 526 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: better from another bout of Cholorado is not okay. We 527 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: as a society have an obligation to sanitize the watermen. 528 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: We have an obligation to reduce the sources of adversity, 529 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: and that is a PubL look health thing. No individual 530 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: is going to do that, and that's why public policy matters. Amen, 531 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, so much for saying that, because I I'm 532 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: sitting here in all the beautiful privilege of my life, 533 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: just working my ass off to be psychologically and emotionally well. 534 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: But then there's still a world where it's not safe 535 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: for me, even as a celebrity, as a black trans woman, 536 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: to walk down the street and know that I can 537 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: get home safely. We have to have those public policies. 538 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful you said, And I think that's 539 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: the point of this podcast for everyone out there who's listening, 540 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 1: who is struggling, because a lot of us are struggling. 541 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: Racism is an adverse experience, adversity, sexism, misogyny, transphobia, being 542 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: poor in America, that's living in a world where people 543 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: are anti immigrants. These are adversities that affect our mental health, 544 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: that make people hyper vision and release cortisol. And injustice 545 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: is stressful as fuck. In justice, it's stressful as fun, 546 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: it's post stressing, it's killing keeps killing us. So so 547 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: that is actually right, And that is why I am 548 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: a science warrior, because our ability to make public policy 549 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: is determined by the strength of the science. When we 550 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: figured out that lead was neurotoxic, right, and caused irreversible 551 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: neurologic damage. The basis of that science was the basis 552 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: of removing lead out of gasoline, out of paint, out 553 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: of pipes. And I'll tell you none of those industries 554 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: liked it. No one was like, oh yeah, I'm thrilled 555 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: to spend more money to do something different. What for 556 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: public health and public safety? And this is why one 557 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: of my still to this day proudest moments was reading 558 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: the ruling from the federal court that enjoined the Trump 559 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: administration against their policy of separating children from their parents 560 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: at the border, when they said, you know what, that 561 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: policy is illegal. On page thirteen of that ruling, it says, 562 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: the science shows that this leads to toxic stress. And 563 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's what we're talking about, right. This is 564 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: why the way that we do this, the rigor with 565 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: which we do this, the science that we bring to 566 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: it matters, because on the basis of science, we can 567 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: make policy. And what the science tells us is exactly 568 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: what you just said, is that trauma is damaging to 569 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: our brains and bodies, and it leads to health problems, 570 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: physical and mental and behavioral. And you know what, for 571 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: the people who really don't care about whether you feel 572 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 1: included and safe in our environment. Maybe they will care 573 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: about the trillions of dollars that we are spending on 574 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: healthcare for treating trauma related health conditions. I published a 575 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: paper last year to show for the state of California alone, 576 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,439 Speaker 1: the cost of adverse childhood experiences from just eight health 577 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 1: conditions is a hundred and twelve billion dollars per year. 578 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 1: So this is a public health imperative and creating safe 579 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: and inclusive communities and environments. It's not just a matter 580 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: of liberal values or conservative values or anything. It is 581 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: a matter of public health. It is a matter of 582 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 1: life or death, and it is a matter of economic 583 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: viability for our nation. Um. I thank you so much 584 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: for your work. I probably get talk to you all day, 585 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: But do you have anything else you want to say? 586 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,919 Speaker 1: Before I asked my last question just for anyone who 587 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: wants to learn more about their own aces. The powerful 588 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: thing about the number story website is that you know, 589 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: no two people have the same response, right. No two 590 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: people who have experienced three aces experienced it the same way. 591 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: And that's why the story is equally as important as 592 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: the number, right, And so that that's the piece that 593 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: is so beautiful. And I think that now that we 594 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: are armed with this information, we have the power to 595 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: write how our story turns out. I believe fundamentally that 596 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: we have the power to transform this world, and we 597 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: do it one conversation at a time. I love that 598 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: so much. The last question I was ask all my 599 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: guests is what else is true for you? And this 600 00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: comes from my therapeutic practice community resiliency model and the 601 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: idea of both. And even though there may be anxiety 602 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: and one part of our body, another part of our 603 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: body might be neutral and positive, and we can focus 604 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: on that, then we can exist in a place of both. 605 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: And so when you know when you are struggling and 606 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: things are rough for you, Dr Nadine Vick Harris, what 607 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: helps you get through? What else is true for you? 608 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: I would say what else is true for me is 609 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: I think a recognition of my own vulnerability is what 610 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: makes me strong and resilience. Because then I put into 611 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: place very mindfully the scaffolding, the infrastructure, the supports that 612 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 1: will keep me going and doing this for a really 613 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: long time, which was I think a big way that 614 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,239 Speaker 1: this this research and this science was very helpful in 615 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: my own life, because I think before that I was like, 616 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm strong, I don't need blah blah blah, and it's 617 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: it was exacting, it was exactly the opposite. I love that. 618 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: As a burnet brown stand Bernet says that vulnerability is 619 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: can scarce, but it's our greatest source of strength, and 620 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: it is our The best measure of courage is our 621 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 1: ability to be vulnerable. Thank you so much, Dr Nadine 622 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,320 Speaker 1: burg Harris. I'm deeply honored. You don't even know how 623 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: honored I am to be having this conversation with you. 624 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: I'm deeply moved by your work. Your work has really 625 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: changed my life in really important ways. Even though I'm 626 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: still struggling, knowing that there is a way out because 627 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: of your work, it's it gives me a lot of hope. 628 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,359 Speaker 1: It's I guess my. What else is true in this 629 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: moment is that there are brilliant, incredible, empathetic, compassionate healthcare 630 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: workers who are Actually you're a certain general of our 631 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: state and you are making a difference in a beautiful way. 632 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for spending this time with me. 633 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: Oh it's my joy. Thank you, Oh my god. Dr 634 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: Nating burg Harris. There is a sense of purpose to 635 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: the work that she does that is beyond her, which 636 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: I think is just all of what we should all be, 637 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: you know, working towards and if we invite in the 638 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: information and then do the work to reduce toxic stress 639 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 1: in our lives. This feels game changing to me because 640 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 1: it feels like it's deeply connected to For me personally, 641 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:44,280 Speaker 1: I don't ever feel safe, and there has been incredible 642 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: improvement in my life. But the heart wiring of safety, 643 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: the heart wiring of trauma responses in my body, that's 644 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: starting when I was a child. When Dr nadin Burg 645 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: Harres said that this starts in childhood and affects the 646 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,760 Speaker 1: way our brains developed, affects the ways our immune system 647 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: to develop, it's like I can be a lot easier 648 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: all myself. I think I'm so emotional lized with that 649 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: conversation because it's like I think I should have it 650 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 1: figured out, and it's okay that I don't. Oh number story, 651 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: Google number story, go to the website. It's okay to 652 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,399 Speaker 1: go and take the test, and you're not crazy when 653 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,319 Speaker 1: it feels overwhelming, like it's too much, that's just a 654 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,239 Speaker 1: biological response to what's happened to you and you can 655 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: survive it. M Thank you so much for listening to 656 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,319 Speaker 1: Laverne Cox Show. Please rate reviews, subscribe and share with 657 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 1: everyone you know. Join me next week for my conversation 658 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,479 Speaker 1: with New York Times bestselling author, researcher, and lecturer Dr 659 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,919 Speaker 1: Joe Dispenser. He uses the latest scientific studies to learn 660 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,399 Speaker 1: how meditation affects the brain and body. Dr Joe has 661 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: developed a way for people to heal their bodies, make 662 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 1: significant changes in their lives, and manifest their dreams. You 663 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram and Twitter at Laverne Cox 664 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: and on Facebook at Laverne Cox for Real. Until next time, 665 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 1: stay in the Last. The Laverne Cox Show is a 666 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,800 Speaker 1: production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. 667 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart 668 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 669 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: favorite shows.