1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Possible Now Stories of Possibilities, the podcast where 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: we dive into the leadership frameworks, bold ideas, and personal 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: stories shaping the future of marketing, technology and leadership. Let 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: me start with a simple observation. For years, the media 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: industry has talked about audiences, how to reach them, how 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: to monetize them, how to optimize them. But what if 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: the real future of media is not about audiences at all. 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: What if it's about communities? And what if the companies 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: that win in the next decade are not media companies 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: in the traditional sense, but human connection companies. That is 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: exactly the idea behind Sundal Media and Technology Group, and 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: the leader building that vision is my guest today. Welcome 13 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: to Possible Now Stories of Possibilities. I'm Christian More, Global 14 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: President and co founder of Possible and in this podcast 15 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: we explore bold ideas and the leaders shaping the worlds 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: of business, culture and technology. Today's guest is someone who 17 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: has spent more than three decades at the crossroads of media, 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: technology and transformation. Kirk McDonald has helped shape the industry 19 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: from nearly every angle. Publisher at tech innovator, agency leader 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: and now CEO of a media, technology and experiential company. 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: He has led global media investments of twenty billion dollars 22 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: at Group M North America, help pioneer digital advertising at 23 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: Time Incorporation, and fortune driven innovation at Xander and Pubmatic, 24 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: and now leads Sundville Media Group, home to iconic brands 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:44,559 Speaker 1: including Essence, Refinery, twenty nine, Afropunk, Beautycon and Naturally Curly. 26 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: But what makes Kirk's leadership particularly interesting and outstanding is 27 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: not just the scale of the businesses he has led. 28 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: It's the idea that media must build infrastructure for opportunity 29 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: for creators, communities and culture. From launching Group m's Media 30 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: Inclusion Initiative, serving at the AD Council, being founding member 31 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: of the Black Executive CMO Alliance, to building the Create 32 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: Her network, Kirk has consistently pushed the industry to rethink 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: who gets access, who gets investment, and who gets hurt. 34 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: So today we are going to talk about the future 35 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 1: of media, the economics of culture, the backlash against DII, 36 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: the rise of community driven platforms, and what leadership really 37 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: demands in a moment like this, Because very few leaders 38 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: bring all of that together. I am welcoming to possible now, 39 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: Kirk McDonald, Christian, what a kind introduction. 40 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: Thank you. I hope I can live up to that. 41 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: We know each other a bit, and what I can 42 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 1: share with my audience here today is that this will 43 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: be an enjoyable but of course a very interesting conversation 44 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: because you are not just an amazing person, You're an 45 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: exceptional leader in our business. But what I also appreciate 46 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: most about you is that you communicate clearly and don't 47 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: hide behind empty phrases, and I think everybody appreciates this 48 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: in these times. So let's talk about your background. I've 49 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: mentioned you spent decades already in the industry, in the 50 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: media business. So if you had to rebuild the industry 51 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: from scratch today, knowing everything you know, now, what would 52 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: you throw away? 53 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: First? Wow, that is a great one. 54 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 3: If so, Probably one of the reasons that is going 55 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 3: to be a lot of fun is how our strong 56 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 3: familiarity and high. 57 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: Respect for each other. I love the. 58 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 3: Convening platforms you've built, and Possible Promises continues to be 59 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 3: one of those. The other reason is that I tend 60 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 3: not to be too filtered on these so, having been 61 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 3: in media as long as I've been, if we had 62 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 3: to rebuild it right now, I would actually throw out 63 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 3: all of the things we've been using to try to 64 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 3: create proxies for measure relevance. If you recalled, there was 65 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 3: a time when at ATMC relaunched a conference called the 66 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 3: Relevance Conference. I still think it is the It is 67 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 3: the crux of what makes media work, and it is 68 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: that the root of why media either is measured or 69 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 3: assumed to be successful or fails. It is our inability 70 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 3: or our inadequacies at really capturing what makes something relevant. 71 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: And all the proxies that we've used have pulled us 72 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 3: towards metrics that really don't in the long term serve 73 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 3: the communities, serve the audiences, or even serve the companies 74 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 3: that are creators of the content where that communities go 75 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 3: to look for, so whether it's clicks. We then built 76 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 3: a whole programmatic system around it. And please don't hear 77 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 3: this wrong. I believe the programmatic nature of advertising is 78 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: essential and it should remain there in the future. But 79 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: the gaps or the inadequacy of our ability to truly 80 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 3: measure the intent of a person, they're true engagement or 81 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 3: interest in content or the places that they go for 82 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 3: refuse the places they go for information that inability has 83 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 3: just not kept up with everything else. 84 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 2: And if I had to. 85 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 3: Toss everything out or maybe build it to catch up, 86 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 3: it would really be to get relevancy sorted out, true 87 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 3: measurement of media sorted out more effectively. 88 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: So as a follow up, and let's have a broader 89 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: perspective on that you were publisher at a company agency 90 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: and our media ownership. What do people in this industry 91 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: still fundamentally misunderstand about how media actually works. What would 92 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: you change immediately if you could. 93 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 3: So the business part of our industry has been built 94 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 3: around this idea that if you can attract an audience, 95 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 3: then you can actually allow someone who wasn't naturally in 96 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 3: the conversation to show up, which is a brand or 97 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 3: an advertiser. Right, Because people don't wake up and say 98 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 3: I want to read advertising. They wake up and say 99 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: I want to get to my sports scores, my horoscopes, 100 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 3: or I want to see who's dating who since last night? Right, 101 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 3: So they're getting that information more recently. They follow either 102 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: an influencer or content creator, two different things, by the way, 103 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 3: and I don't think we often remember that one serves 104 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 3: a different purpose than the other. But since someone is 105 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 3: looking for information that is relevant to them, our whole 106 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 3: industry has been built around the idea that if I 107 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 3: can aggregate a lot of those moments and then let 108 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: someone come in and interrupt it or add to it, 109 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: then I can fundamentally run a business that allows me 110 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 3: to create more of those moments for a set of consumers. 111 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 3: What we have forgotten or ignored along the way is 112 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 3: that there's this other higher responsibility, which is, how do 113 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 3: I actually shape thinking? How do I actually cause people's 114 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 3: financial views to be consistently around knowledge around personal wealth, 115 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 3: personal management, finances. How do I help people make decisions 116 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 3: around their politics? Simply put, how do I become a 117 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: better mom? How do I actually make decisions around where 118 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 3: my kids go to school, or something as simple as 119 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: my skin care, my wellness routine, my fashion choices. That 120 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 3: higher level responsibility has often been tossed aside because again, 121 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 3: this metric has been wrong and we've obsessed ourselves over 122 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 3: how do I cause you to look back at this again, 123 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 3: not because it's relevant to you or useful to you, 124 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: but simply just the act of getting you to look 125 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 3: at more of it? And I think that has caused 126 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 3: what is this powerful digital platform for connection to be 127 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 3: filled with lots of junk, right, And we've let technology 128 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: run out ahead of our ethics so much so that 129 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 3: we create junk and pour it into the system, and 130 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 3: over time it created a blindness. I can no longer 131 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: care about the ads I see because I just was 132 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 3: inundated with them. Well, that was because we saturated the 133 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 3: page with it in an effort to drive monetization higher 134 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: than the consumer experience or the community's needs. And I 135 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: think those are the places we've gone wrong. So back 136 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: to your question, what would I fix? Since we use 137 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 3: measurement to make these decisions, we've been using the wrong math. 138 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: I don't think we've put enough energy into getting you know, 139 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: relevant scoring right, to getting the importance of community engagement right. 140 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 3: And now that we've got AI, another powerful tool that 141 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 3: is absolutely our future, you know, we have not yet 142 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 3: shown the maturity as leaders in the space to use 143 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 3: the technology not just powerfully, but use it intelligently, thoughtfully, 144 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: intimately in a way that is truly beneficial to the 145 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 3: communities we serve. 146 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: Is this the last point about AI? Is this something 147 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: you would say? This is an uncomfortable choice about the 148 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: media and marketing industry that most people know privately, but 149 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: nobody would speak out publicly. I mean this is just 150 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: between us here, right. 151 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: Let's go a step further. 152 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 3: So I heard this said, so I won't take credit 153 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 3: for it, but AI or artificial intelligence is actually really 154 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 3: a false prozzy for artificial intimacy. The world is looking 155 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: for intimate engagements. It's looking for human connections, human to 156 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 3: human connections. So human to synthetic is really serves is 157 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 3: a service or function, but it is not what the 158 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 3: human is actually looking for. They care to to really 159 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 3: engage with some other human rarefied content. What we are 160 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 3: not talking about out loud is again we're running away 161 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: with the capability before we really think about where it should 162 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 3: be applied. We're not remembering or admitting to ourselves out 163 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 3: loud that what we should be looking to do is 164 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: create true intimate connections, true meaningful connections, not just with content, 165 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 3: but as those that lean into AI per service purposes, etc. 166 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 3: Are looking to accomplish something that's of high value to them, 167 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: and if we would admit it, we then wouldn't generate 168 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 3: as much synthetic stuff as we do. Not telling you 169 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 3: that we should use it to do synthetic audiences so 170 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 3: that we can probe and get research done faster. But 171 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 3: when you overuse anything, you bastardize the actual tech or capability, 172 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 3: and you actually disappoint the person who's supposed to receive 173 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 3: the service or the output product of it. And I 174 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: just think too often we ignore that sort of higher calling, 175 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 3: higher standard to what we do as we try to 176 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: run forward faster than the company that's next to us. 177 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: That's all. 178 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: You just mentioned a couple of minutes ago that there's 179 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: obviously a difference between you influencer and creators. So what 180 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: if we put both at the same table. How would 181 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: this conversation would run between an influence and a creator. 182 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: What would be the different perspectives from each of them? 183 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how everyone else defines it, but 184 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 3: for me, you know, influencers I think are primarily it's 185 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 3: primarily someone who has a relationship with an audience. Following right, 186 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 3: So that's just someone who who's they're obligated to meet 187 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 3: what is almost the insatiable needs are of the audience 188 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 3: they've created. So they do things, they talk about things 189 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 3: to make that audience very very happy. They think, right, 190 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 3: they don't really sometimes even think about, well, how many 191 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 3: more things do I need to do just to kind 192 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 3: of keep them engaged. I think creators are a little 193 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 3: bit different, and I think we use the words together 194 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 3: and they're not the same. I think creator is often 195 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: someone that is committed to their art right. So in 196 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 3: the music world, you know, Taylor Swift is a creator, 197 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 3: Beyonce is a creator, and they almost have an obligation 198 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 3: to the music, to the thing they produce. 199 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: Artists are creators. 200 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 3: Content writers that write substantive information are then creators to 201 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 3: the particular subject category they care about. They actually get 202 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 3: followership because the content they create is very powerful, as 203 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 3: opposed to get followership for the sake of following me 204 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 3: making commentary on something else or trying to do something 205 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 3: over the top exciting to cause you to follow it. 206 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: But it's not. 207 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 3: The one is committed to the audience and making the 208 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 3: audience entertained, informed, happy, and the other is committed to 209 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 3: the ethics and the integrity is a better word, the 210 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 3: integrity of the art form, the product that they're creating. 211 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 3: And I think that is the difference. So while both 212 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 3: exist today, they are different and they should be supported differently. 213 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: In those cases you've mentioned, maybe you're becoming a creative 214 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: first very famous one and because of the you know, 215 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: the many follow us, you are becoming an influencer as 216 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: well at some. 217 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 3: Stage exactly right, So they overlap, right. But here's here's 218 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 3: an interesting dynamic that you know, a thesis that we're 219 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 3: we're kind of operating behind, is that while creators and 220 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 3: influencers are commanding attention now and they maybe will into 221 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 3: the future, as you introduce again without a lot of 222 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 3: sort of thoughtfulness, the capabilities of AI to also create 223 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 3: synthetic content, what then happens to the consumer? This is 224 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 3: where we don't often think enough about the consumer, and 225 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 3: the consumers need to be in community, right, so the 226 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 3: consumer wants to actually sometimes follow a trend, follow a 227 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 3: taste maker, and then so they lean in. But if 228 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 3: you actually don't have enough choice, it's paralyzing. The other 229 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 3: way you become paralyzed as the consumer around decision making 230 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: is you have too much choice. With the introduction of 231 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: AI tools, you're having influencers who truly aren't substantive creators 232 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: who don't put the work into create are now mimicking 233 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 3: creation or being able to create content faster, easier in 234 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 3: higher volumes. And I think what will become paralyzing for 235 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 3: the consumer is well which creator to follow. Creators are 236 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 3: also or influencers are also beginning to be overused by. 237 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: Brands right in our own space. 238 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 3: Now, I think the relationship between the consumer and even 239 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 3: the influencers they follow, those creators is also now being tested. 240 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 3: What is the integrity of your recommending this hair product? 241 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 3: What is the integrity of you telling me that this 242 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 3: car is as cool as you think it is at 243 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 3: a certain point when I know that the car is 244 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 3: there because the manufacturer has caused you or hired you 245 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 3: to tell me about the car, when I know that 246 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 3: you truly don't use this hair product because three weeks 247 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 3: ago you recommended another one and now you're choosing to 248 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 3: do yet another one still, but you're not reviewing them. 249 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 3: You're just pretending you use them all the time. How 250 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 3: do I trust you? And now when you introduce synthetic 251 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 3: spokespeople for those things which will happen with AI getting 252 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 3: better and we're living predominantly in a sight sound motion world, 253 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 3: now I want to see video of this. I think 254 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: what's going to emerge as a role of a creator curator, 255 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 3: which is, now, how do I curate and aggregate the 256 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 3: best of the ones that have humans in the loop, 257 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: the ones that are actually remembering what the higher calling. 258 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: Is and commitment to the communities around them. 259 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 3: I mean, in many regards, that's what we think is 260 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 3: powerful about the brand ips that we have, you know, 261 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 3: collectively with our brands over one hundred years of these 262 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 3: relationships fifty five plus years, fifty six years with Essence, 263 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 3: twenty plus years with Refining twenty nine, where you know 264 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: there is a trusted relationship and integrity in that relationship. 265 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 3: So we don't just offer you an ability as that 266 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: consumer to see aggregated creators and influencers, both unstaffed by 267 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 3: us and others brought into our creator network. But what 268 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 3: you also get now is the trust and the intimacy 269 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 3: that goes deep, that has history in it. And we 270 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 3: think that's actually a strong value proposition as we work 271 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: with brands, right, so not just reach us, trusted reach right, 272 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 3: And we just don't think that's a trade off that 273 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 3: a brand marketer can should make, which is that I'm 274 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 3: going to buy everything. What you need to do is 275 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 3: buy the quality of things, and then we will scale quality. 276 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 3: So anyway, just how we think about the space. 277 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: Let's jump into this a bit further because you've mentioned 278 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: a sense of Refiner, twenty nine, Afropunk, Beauticon, and many more. 279 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: So you oversee all these brands and each with its 280 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: own identity and community. How do you build one company 281 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: or a framework around this without flattening the cultures that 282 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: made those brands powerful in the first place. 283 00:16:59,240 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 2: How does it work? 284 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 3: In many ways for us, we've let we've allowed each 285 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 3: of those brands to actually exist in their own space, 286 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 3: and we want them to continue to be the thing 287 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 3: that they need to be. So let me give you 288 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 3: a framework of SUNDAW which is the holding company first, 289 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 3: and then let. 290 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: Me walk and please explain why do you call yourself 291 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: a unit connection company? 292 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: What doesn't mean really? 293 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 3: So we don't think we're just a media company because 294 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: that implies, you know, are we just an experiential company? 295 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: Right? 296 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 3: So we hold annually through the Essence Festival of Culture, 297 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 3: which comes up here July fourth weekend, this year being 298 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 3: especially important as America will celebrate at two hundred and 299 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: fiftieth anniversary that weekend. In many ways, we host the 300 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 3: world's largest block party event that weekend when you know, 301 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 3: some three hundred to four hundred thousand people find their 302 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 3: way into New Orleans to be in community with each other. 303 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 3: That community is around a convention center experience all day long, 304 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 3: which we offer free to anyone that comes to attend, 305 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 3: and they get empowerment programming, They get to go through 306 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,959 Speaker 3: the Beauty con experience, they get to go through our 307 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 3: wellness experience that are Unbothered, They go through our men's experience, 308 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: from car shows to the Global Black Economic form all 309 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 3: happen during the day and then in the evenings we 310 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 3: do concerts. Right we've already announced artists like Cardi B 311 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 3: and pay Label and Monica and Brandy Will all Colony 312 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 3: will all be there this year, more to come as 313 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 3: we continue rolling out our announcements. So that doesn't describe 314 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 3: just a media company that would be an experiential business, 315 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 3: but we do this as well for Afropunk, We do 316 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 3: this as well for Girls United through our yard tours 317 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 3: on HBCU and other college campuses. We do this through 318 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 3: the Unbothered platform, which focuses on wellness, and we produce 319 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 3: content as well. At our core is something that we 320 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 3: call smart. It's somedows marketing, automation research technology platform. So 321 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: we've taken one hundred years plus of our relationships across 322 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 3: all of these different brand ips, from audience surveys to 323 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 3: the content we write too. We've had writers, poets like 324 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 3: Maya Angelou write for Essence before it was digitized. Right, 325 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 3: we have all of that history. That history has been 326 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 3: brought through small language modeling. We've turned out into something 327 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 3: that we now can layer on top of a large 328 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 3: language model user retrieval system to use it to start 329 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 3: informing how we do content. What is the insights and 330 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 3: intelligence we can offer a partner, how we pick the 331 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 3: talent that we use for a brand partnership as well 332 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 3: as performing talent, How we design our experiences and drive 333 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 3: commerce that is pushed out to the marketplace through our 334 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 3: branded IP on multiple platforms, from video on YouTube, to 335 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 3: the web platform to social, all through the brands. Because 336 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 3: what the consumer knows is they know Essence, they know 337 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 3: twenty nine rooms, they know Refinery twenty nine. But ultimately 338 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 3: we then offer an ability for you to have beauty 339 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 3: across the portfolio. Sundial, when I think of the brand 340 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 3: specific to your question, what Refinery twenty nine has been 341 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 3: about is about her passions. So almost are Latina celebrating 342 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 3: Latina Pride is about heritage, unbothered, longevity and wellness in 343 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 3: the unbothered platform. Beauty con is a brand all about 344 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 3: the mastery where beauty becomes sort of belonging for those 345 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 3: passionate in this space. 346 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 2: Afropunk has been for creativity. 347 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: These are This is a community that lives at the 348 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 3: edge of what is taste making, in music, in art, 349 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 3: in food. Girls United is about her emergence. Essence is 350 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 3: really about her journeys. So with those editorial sort of lanes, 351 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,959 Speaker 3: we're able to really keep true to the communities that 352 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 3: we serve. This is what it means to be a 353 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 3: connection platform for communities. These communities gather because when I 354 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 3: come to the Festival of Culture, I feel like I've 355 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 3: come to a homecoming with four hundred thousand other friends. 356 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 3: And whatever are the mindsets or like minded things that 357 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 3: connect me with this, it matters and that's the experience 358 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 3: we see there as we see families tend to make 359 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 3: this an annual homecoming. Sororities and fraternities come through. Church 360 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 3: groups come and bring field trips to come to the 361 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 3: Festival of Culture. When you go to beautycon You're surrounded 362 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 3: in a community of people that are passionate about the 363 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 3: industry of beauty. What does it mean to put this 364 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 3: set of chemicals on my skin? And then we bring 365 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 3: a brand like a Laurel into an environment like that, 366 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 3: it's now an authentic relationship. It's not I've shown up 367 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 3: to be a tack on or an add on to this. 368 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 3: They show up to be a part of that storytelling. 369 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 3: When we do Black Women in Hollywood. Last week was 370 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 3: our Black Women in Hollywood event, and we do a 371 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 3: Black Women in series for all the reasons that are 372 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 3: simply that black women have been underserved, underrepresented, undervoiced versus 373 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 3: what they believe, what has been their contribution. We think 374 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,239 Speaker 3: that's broadly women. Women are eighty five percent drivers of 375 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 3: influencing in almost every single category that you look at, 376 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 3: yet still they're not given enough space. We have created 377 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 3: all those lanes, we serve women in those spaces, and 378 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 3: a Black Women in Hollywood is this great example of 379 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 3: the intimate conversations that that community wants to have with 380 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 3: each other when they're seen, because so often they feel 381 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 3: like they operate in a bigger, broader society that doesn't 382 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 3: see them in their fullness, in their completeness, and that's 383 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 3: what we think this affords. That's what being a platform 384 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,239 Speaker 3: is for their voices. That's what being a platform is 385 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 3: for that community. And the part that is about human 386 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 3: connection is that we're going to make culture as infrastructure. 387 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 3: We're going to actually put the technology in place to 388 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 3: make sure that those human interactions are as authentic, as 389 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:31,239 Speaker 3: trusted as those communities demand for us to make them. 390 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: What you're doing out there, you know all these amazing 391 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: events you described, I should ask you to how to 392 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: further develop possible. 393 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 2: That's for sure. 394 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: That will be a different conversation. 395 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 2: That would be a different conversation. But you seem to 396 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: be doing really well. Right. 397 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 3: We spoke about this conference as you were thinking it through, 398 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 3: and I remember the ambition you had, and if you 399 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 3: recall what I said, Wow, that is big and almost impossible, 400 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 3: and you act your reference was no, but we are 401 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 3: going to make it possible, Christian, and I want to 402 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 3: actually say that you have so and not to as 403 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 3: a plug for the event, but the event has become 404 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 3: one of the must attend for the fact that you 405 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 3: do these conversations in a way that others don't. As 406 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: we go from sort of assumptions about cultural impact. Yeah, 407 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 3: I look forward to using the Possible Stage as a 408 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 3: place to talk about what it would mean to score, 409 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 3: to really bring scoring capabilities to cultural relevancy and cultural impact, 410 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 3: to actually find ways to make sure that we are 411 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 3: not just exploiting the value that creators and taste makers have, 412 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 3: but actually truly creating the reward mechanism so that the 413 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 3: community is filled and that the participants that act in 414 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 3: the space are supported properly. 415 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Your session and your appearance on stage will be definitely 416 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: a highlight for us this year. And it's happening in 417 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, so not so much more to 418 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: wait for. I think it was one of your other 419 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: interviews you said that Sunday focuses on her the chief 420 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: influence officer, And we know that women drive around eighty 421 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 1: five percent of consumer purchasing decisions. Why has the industry 422 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: been so slow to recognize where culture power actually sits. 423 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: It feels like it takes too much time. Right, it's 424 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: nothing brand new, Right, we know this for some time now. 425 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 3: It is fascinating because again, all the data is there 426 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 3: that supports this, Right, it took years for us to 427 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 3: acknowledge that women made decisions on their automotive purchases without 428 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 3: the influence of men. 429 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: It took years for us to accept that. 430 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 3: She is a whole human being that actually is not 431 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 3: just following but driving so much of what happens in business, 432 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 3: in culture, in life. And yet still the industry continues 433 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 3: to sort of tack her on as a second thought. 434 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 3: She still doesn't have as many places to go that 435 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 3: are truly places that we fill her. What we know 436 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 3: is that if we continue serving her properly, not only 437 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 3: will she continue her powerful contribution into things, the brands 438 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 3: that come along are going to be disproportionately benefited by 439 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 3: actually being there to actually listen to where she wants 440 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 3: to go, into things that she wants to do. I 441 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 3: don't know why others haven't gotten it all all the 442 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 3: way there yet, but I do know that many brands 443 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 3: are succeeding when they do get it right. You know, 444 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 3: we've had a partnership with Coca Cola now for thirty 445 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 3: one years around the festival. They have been the presenting 446 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 3: sponsor there. I like when that leadership has it engages 447 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 3: in this conversation with us Similarly, we've had a partnership 448 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 3: with Target, who constantly speaks about her very clearly as 449 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 3: her recognizing the powerful value of having her drive store 450 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 3: foot traffic through the doors of their store locations and 451 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 3: drive the purchase actions out of there out of their stores. 452 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 3: When you get it right, you win disproportion And I 453 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 3: don't think it's just understanding her, but her in all 454 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: of her communities, her in all of the hats that 455 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 3: she wears, and when done well, those brands win. 456 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: You just talked about this, and I wanted to come 457 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: back to this. You've mentioned a few brands which perfectly 458 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: and naturally fit into your concept to connect with this 459 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: specific audience. Do you think the marketing industry overall truly 460 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: understands culture or does it mostly react to it after 461 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: the fact. 462 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 3: So, I think this is one of the most important 463 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 3: white spaces out there, right. So there have been many 464 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 3: successful agencies built around taste making or cultural understanding and divisions. 465 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 3: I used to again be the Agency hold co CEO, 466 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 3: so we know what it means to claim authority in 467 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 3: these areas. I don't know how many of those are 468 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 3: truly credible other than they're being led by a say 469 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 3: the individual usually figure a leader who says that, look, 470 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 3: I'm a taste maaker myself, and because I've understand how 471 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 3: to do taste making in my spaces, I can then 472 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 3: help you brand figure that out as well. The honest 473 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 3: gap here is that despite all of that, there is 474 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 3: no widely accepted, standardized metric that says, here's a score 475 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 3: for cultural relevance. 476 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: That's what's missing. The emergence of that. 477 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 3: The way we have a net promoter score, the way 478 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 3: we actually use a comp score Nielsen that says that, look, 479 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 3: this is the thing we'll use to measure I think 480 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 3: is a missed opportunity. The opportunity to capture that and 481 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 3: to have that the adopted starts putting a more even 482 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 3: playing feel as to how cultural relevance has managed. So 483 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 3: we're working on that and excited about bringing that into 484 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 3: the programmatic space with partners so that you can start 485 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 3: one using that to actually make some of your programmatic 486 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,719 Speaker 3: buying decisions. But two, we want to also go out 487 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 3: and be able to use again one hundred plus years 488 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: of these relationships across these titles and offer that to 489 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 3: allow a brand to bring your creative will help you 490 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 3: score it against its cultural relevance against the impact we 491 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 3: think it's going to create, and then truly test with 492 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 3: those partners different tools they can use to employ growing 493 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 3: their impact against the communities and the audiences they're looking 494 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 3: to speak to. 495 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: Let's talk about d I if okay with you? And 496 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: obviously kind of backlash, not a kind of strong backlash, 497 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: I would say, across corporate America for some time now, 498 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: and knowing about your portfolio, how do you lead brands 499 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: like Essence and efropunk in that environment? How do you 500 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: work with the teams who are so passionate about it 501 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: and of course the audience. What does it mean for 502 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: you in your daily business. 503 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 3: If for whatever reason you realize that you will up 504 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 3: to something. I don't know why you would ever choose 505 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 3: to go back to sleep about that. I just don't 506 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 3: really understand how that could be the right thing. That's 507 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 3: like saying I became insightful and understanding of something, but 508 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 3: what I should do now is actually go backwards on that. 509 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 3: I should go back on my learning. So we never understood, 510 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 3: don't We can't understand why there's tolerance for anything that 511 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 3: sounds like it is anti being awake and TI being 512 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 3: insightful and ti being alert to what is truly the trend. 513 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 2: The reality is. 514 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,479 Speaker 3: That the new majority of this country, the new general 515 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 3: market is different than what it was before. The country 516 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 3: is more diverse. Jen Alpha will look back on this 517 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 3: period and laugh at us for how long it took 518 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 3: us to actually recognize the importance of inclusion. Every voice 519 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 3: should be at the table, and what we should make 520 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 3: sure is that all voices have equal opportunity. That's the 521 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 3: thing to fight for. Don't do equal counting, do equal opportunity. 522 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 3: Equal access is what matters. What we saw happened last 523 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 3: year was very hurtful to our business. We saw in 524 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 3: fighting even in our culture, not really understanding what was 525 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 3: important in reaction to the attack on the I from 526 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 3: the outside that saw our business take impact of thirty 527 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 3: percent of our business went away because we had partners 528 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 3: that weren't doing or did not understand that you should 529 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 3: market to the new marketplace in an appropriate way because 530 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 3: it makes business sense. They thought they were doing it 531 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 3: because it was the trend of the moment, and we 532 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 3: saw that impact. We'll sustain that because we were here 533 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 3: before that. We've had to operate these businesses before there 534 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 3: was the support that we had over those few years, 535 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 3: of those four or five years, and we're going to 536 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 3: rise through it because at the end of the day, 537 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 3: the taste makers, those who are living at the edge 538 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 3: of culture. Some of them have chosen to make places 539 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 3: like Afropunk and Beauty Econ and Essence and Refinery twenty 540 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 3: nine and Unbothered the Home the places that they go 541 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 3: to to get informed and to stay relevant. So we'll 542 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 3: survive this, but it is not without its challenges right now, 543 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 3: and it's not without the difficulties of now re educating 544 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,719 Speaker 3: brands that are in an effort to sort of not 545 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 3: feel like they're standing out or trying to go backwards 546 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 3: in their thinking, and I think they're missing opportunity. Now 547 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 3: a few are going to stand tall in this moment, 548 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 3: and as the pendulum swings back, those will be out ahead, 549 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 3: and we're going to actually double down with them. We're 550 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 3: going to make sure that any effort, any campaign we 551 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 3: do them, has outsized results so that they can do 552 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 3: the share shifting that will take place because they will 553 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 3: actually be ahead of the curve. Always, consumption hasn't shifted. 554 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 3: Attendance at our conference remains high, engagement with our content 555 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 3: and properties remains high. We want brands to realize this 556 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 3: is being aware of where the market of consumers is going. 557 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 3: Isn't a trend, This isn't a political thing. It shouldn't be. 558 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 3: It's a cultural thing, and if you truly recognize it's 559 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 3: a cultural awareness thing, I don't know why we would 560 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 3: go back to sleep on this new insight that you've gained. 561 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: I think it's a strong message and a strong position. 562 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: I appreciate this. You also said that you're passionate about 563 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: equity and not handouts. So where do you still see 564 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: the starting line and media being fundamentally unfair? 565 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 2: The unfairness of it? 566 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 3: Is this another thing that we don't want to admit 567 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 3: about media, again, tied back to the fact that we've 568 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 3: used the wrong measuring stick, is that media is also 569 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 3: a creature of its own historical habits. So the dollars 570 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 3: that go into a particular place have been going in 571 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 3: there so long that what we do next year is 572 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 3: we don't start with zero and rebuild it. What we 573 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 3: wanted to do an effort to be efficient is we say, well, 574 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 3: we did two billion with you last year, we did 575 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 3: seven hundred million with you last year. We should take 576 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 3: that down ten percent, or take it up fifteen percent. 577 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 3: But if you keep carrying that forward, then you're really 578 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 3: marketing in twenty twenty six only percentage points plus and 579 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 3: minus different than you were marketing twenty sixteen, which is 580 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 3: only some points up or down from how you were 581 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 3: marketing in two thousand and six. Now, when you do 582 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 3: that in those big ten year blocks, you kind of go, well, 583 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 3: that's not possible. But that's exactly what's happening, right, which 584 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 3: is that despite the consumption in linear TV, the kind 585 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 3: of the TV business or the upfront business continues to 586 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 3: support Now that the please don't air me say that 587 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 3: TV is not important, I'm just telling you that the 588 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 3: habit doesn't. It doesn't sort of re explore what is 589 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 3: a new way to do this very often, and that 590 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 3: happens with the marketer, to investm or the buyer, and 591 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 3: it happens just in all the different divisions that work 592 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 3: around it, because we built up all of this infrastructure 593 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 3: to support those things, and no one really wants to 594 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 3: move away from that, right, And it takes almost revolutionary 595 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 3: behavior to make us disrupt what we're doing and go 596 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 3: forward with a new pattern. This is where it doesn't 597 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 3: remain equitable if you were never part of the original 598 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 3: infrastructure thirty years ago breaking in despite the fact that 599 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,240 Speaker 3: now some marketers have become aware of how highly relevant 600 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 3: certain properties are, how needed they are to the communities 601 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 3: they serve. If you were never in, you're not a 602 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 3: part of that habit. So trying to find a way 603 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 3: to break into the habit or create a new habit 604 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 3: is where it's probably been most difficult. Thank you for 605 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,439 Speaker 3: recalling the media inclusion initiative. That was what that's set 606 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,879 Speaker 3: out to do. Let's introduce a new habit, and let's 607 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 3: see if this habit tied directly to business performance could 608 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 3: actually be a habit that would sustain itself brand reasonably. 609 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 3: Can you imagine that you spend your budgets, but you 610 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 3: don't get thoughtful about sustaining this important part of the ecosystem, 611 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 3: which is black or minority owned publishing or creators. Some 612 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 3: percentage has to go there so that you can actually 613 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 3: create equal opportunity for them to actually get caught up 614 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 3: because their voices are equally important. If we agree, it's 615 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 3: those things that still aren't in place to correct or 616 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 3: to rebalance an industry that again, for the last couple 617 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 3: of years. Now is beginning to say, how do I 618 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 3: close my eyes back to the awareness that we have 619 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 3: not been equitable and we're going to push against that, obviously, 620 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 3: because we think pushing against it is a business opportunity 621 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 3: for some brands and partners to get again outsize performance 622 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 3: when they get it right. 623 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 1: Thank you for explaining this, and of course we could 624 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: spend so much more time on these topics. What I 625 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: would like to know from you is, and hopefully the 626 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: audience as well, is you've spoken at major events like DABOS, 627 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: What Economy Forum and other events. Of course, what's the 628 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: one message specifically today you want cmos and brand leaders 629 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: to hear right now in regards to what we discussed 630 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: in the last forty forty five minutes. 631 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 3: I would ask us right now, if all of us 632 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 3: are going to get access to these powerful tools, if 633 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 3: all of us are actually benefiting from so much new information, 634 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 3: if all of us had, at least for a moment 635 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 3: an opportunity to be awake and to see things differently, 636 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 3: how truly will I help my brand differentiate? And I 637 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 3: think the thing I want us to really think hard 638 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 3: about is am I just sort of still going through 639 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 3: the motions, or have I really looked in the mirror 640 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 3: and thought, how do I go deep as an executive 641 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 3: to truly understand what can I do differently than I 642 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 3: was doing before? So have I gone back and looked 643 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 3: at what are my investment teams doing? Have I gone 644 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 3: back and looked at the media plan that my teams 645 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 3: are rolling out or the experiential investments that I'm making 646 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 3: as the senior executive, and not just take last year's 647 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,919 Speaker 3: plan with ten to fifteen percent modifications and go into 648 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 3: the new year, but actually go back to last year's 649 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 3: plan only as a reference point to rewrite from zero 650 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 3: zero based budgeting sort of zero strategy, like what is 651 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 3: the strategy that would cause me to win now? And 652 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 3: then who are the partners that I can go be 653 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 3: different with to then create outsized performance. That's where I 654 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 3: think cmos are going to differentiate going forward. All of 655 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 3: us are going to catch upon the AI tools, all 656 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 3: of us will have access to research. These things will 657 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 3: all make us all kind of equal. Our skill difference 658 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 3: now is going to be our willingness to actually roll 659 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 3: our sleeves up and bring true human insights in and 660 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 3: do the work differently and I'm making that as an 661 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 3: invitation for us to that dinner at Possible is going 662 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,919 Speaker 3: to be the dinner at Possible. That dinner and can 663 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 3: this year will be the dinner where those cmos are 664 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 3: beginning to shape their thinking differently. 665 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: Great message and obviously going the hard way, you know, 666 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: and not just copy and paste in some way. When 667 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: it comes to you personally, and as I said at 668 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: the beginning, because I know you, You're an amazing personality, 669 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: You an amazing leader. You've led through enormous shifts in 670 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: the last couple of years, the pandemic and the George 671 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: Floyd moment, THEDI search, and the now the backlash, beside 672 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,360 Speaker 1: all the economic and culture challenges. How do you stay 673 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: personally grounded when the culture and political wins are constantly shifting? 674 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: Tell me, because when I came to us, everybody told 675 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,800 Speaker 1: me you have to stay positive. Right coming from Europe, 676 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,959 Speaker 1: you know it's my German heritage. You have to stay positive. Okay, 677 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: how do you do this? 678 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 3: The reward for actually staying true to yourself through hard 679 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 3: things is exceptional. That personal satisfaction of being able to 680 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 3: stay the course through the hardest of times is exceptional 681 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 3: When done in business, there's usually outsized business rewards, but 682 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 3: if you actually do it for personal, for your own 683 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 3: sort of ethics and your own integrity, I just think 684 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 3: it's the easiest time to look in the mirror is 685 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,240 Speaker 3: when you've actually navigated through some of the hardest times 686 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 3: and that reward is there. I think athletes would describe 687 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 3: it as the endorphin kick in that you get from 688 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 3: finishing a marathon. But for me as a business person, 689 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 3: sometimes the harder it is, the more turbulent it is, 690 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 3: just being able to really fix on what is what 691 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 3: success is supposed to look like? What is my role 692 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 3: in this moment? If not me? 693 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:38,879 Speaker 2: Who? If not now? When? 694 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 3: Not out of pride, but out of the humble responsibility 695 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,439 Speaker 3: of trying to get some part of this thing right 696 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 3: and leave some part of your work behind that was 697 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 3: better than you found it. Yeah, that's what drives me, 698 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 3: and that's the reward I get from it. So, but 699 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 3: thank you for asking the question. 700 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 1: So Kirk, final question, because unfortunately we are coming to 701 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: the end for today. Someone once said working with you 702 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: is not for the final heart, but deeply rewarding. 703 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 2: What does it mean? 704 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 3: I sometimes think that there is a true value to 705 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,839 Speaker 3: not knowing that you can't do something, because by not 706 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 3: knowing you can't do something, you actually go at it 707 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 3: one hundred percent. Most innovation, most new things are forged 708 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 3: forward because there is that sort of childlike belief that 709 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 3: you can despite all the data that says you can't. 710 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 3: That's what And I'm paying the compliment to you made 711 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 3: possible possible out of a moment that could have been 712 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,280 Speaker 3: daunting for someone else. You saw what others couldn't see. 713 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 3: Maybe the challenge with working with me is I'm always 714 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 3: that it's not eternally optimistic, it's not childish, it's not ignorant, 715 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,839 Speaker 3: but it is this belief that we really don't know. 716 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 2: What we're capable of. 717 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 3: We don't really know what our limits are, and since 718 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 3: we don't, you should sometimes push to find them. In business, 719 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 3: that's where I am, that's where I get to play. 720 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 3: And yeah, so working with me as that it's an 721 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 3: exploration in what you didn't know you could accomplish or 722 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,879 Speaker 3: didn't know you could achieve, and then let's go find 723 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 3: it together. And I got to tell you, it's a 724 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 3: lot of fun when we get to the other side. 725 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Kirk. And what I take away 726 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: from this conversation is pretty simple and obvious. It's that 727 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,800 Speaker 1: industries don't change because of systems evolve. It's they change 728 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: because people decide to challenge them, people like yourself. And 729 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: that's exactly what you've been doing throughout your career. You're 730 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: opening doors, you're building infrastructure, you're creating opportunities for others 731 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: besides running great businesses and building great businesses. 732 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,399 Speaker 2: So, Kirk, thank you so much for. 733 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 1: Joining Possible Now today and I'm looking very much forward 734 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,839 Speaker 1: to see you on stage at Possible in a couple 735 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:51,399 Speaker 1: of weeks time. 736 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thanks again, Christian, really appreciate it. 737 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: If you're curious to learn more about Possible, sign up 738 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: for our newsletter, or if you want to join us 739 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: at the Possible Show in Miami, visit possibleevent dot com. 740 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 1: Possible Now is a co production of iHeartMedia and Possible. 741 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Ryan Martz and Yasmin Melandez. Our 742 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 1: supervising producer is Meredith Barnes. Special thanks to Colleen Lawrence 743 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: Mack from our programming team. Our theme music is composed 744 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: by Anthony Quatcholi. For more podcasts from iHeart visit the 745 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: iHeart app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 746 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: favorite shows.